Sigh...what is going on?

[srtiels]

My favorite bird Noodles has babies again. With my husband in the hospital I had no time to pull babies so I let him keep them and they've fledged. Over the past 2 days I have been taking pix's and it was after downloading and looking at the pix's I noticed a few things on the normal grey.

BUT...there should NOT have been a normal grey at all on the clutch according to the parents.

Father: Pearl split to Cinnamon pied, WF
Mother: Lutino pearl, split to pied

Yesterday I was taking pix's of each of the babies and it hit me that there should not be a grey, but there is, and there was no screwing around by either parent prior to nesting, and this is their 2nd clutch. (first clutch, CP PPD, pearl)

The 1st pix is of a front shot of the grey. It is a pretty little thing with bright yellow around it's face and circling it's eyes. It even has speckles on the chest.

The 2nd pix is a shot thru the flight wire when I noticed that there was an odd feather on it's left upper side peeking out from the normal ones.

The third is a back shot...and you can just barely see the odd feather showing from under the overlaying ones. The white streaks farther down the left side are baby down still stuck to the tips of the feathers.

The 4th and 5th pix is of an oddly marked 5 month old normal, I found when a friend bought out a colony flight of birds in Miami. He only has these markings on the right side. His other side is like a normal grey. The grey baby's odd feather is patterned like this males feathers.

Any ideas? The Miami bird is similar to Jeff and his son that have the oddly marked feathers that I have posted about in the past.

The only common denominator with all of these birds (Miami, Jeff and son, and Noodles baby) is there was lutino pearl and pied in the genetics. The odd feathers would not be considered pied because the center vein is dark. And if pearl it is a very mottled indistinct pattern.

[silverflower]

I am by all means no expert, but do you think maybe the pied is doing something to the pearling? I know at times I have heard that the split to pearl will show up in a pied, maybe it is doing the sme thing here only opposite? That's very interesting, or what about a cross over, maybe it is a greu split to pied and pearl.

[srtiels]

Yes, I have suspected that the pied is doing something.

If you go to my albums, way down, around the 18-19th row is Jess and his son. If you click on the pix's you will get alarger veiw and can read the info on them:
http://s525.photobucket.com/albums/cc331/Mousebirds-and-more/Other%20birds/?start=all

Now I have this new baby and Miami, so they will be unrelated to Jeff and son. I am hoping the new baby is a hen, because all my other oddly marked birds are males.

i've been asking for several years and on a genetics list for any ideas on what is going on.

What I would like to do is work with the birds and see if I can produce more, and if so it more extensive on the body...especially the males. I have always thought is was a shame that pearl males lost their pearling and would like to breed for a line of split to pearls that do show some parial pearling and they keep most of it.

I'm now working on greys with no splits to later use for breeding in this direction.

[Di_dee1]

I am just going to be frivolous as I have no idea, am in a silly mood but I also understand your frustration..hugs.

I think it is the same as the socks and washing machine syndrome. Every now and then one gets spat back into a wash from a secret compartment when no socks were washed, just to keep us all on our toes and for the machine's enjoyment in its dull life of sitting there all alone in the laundry.

I will go now lol. Seriously, I do hope you can find an answer.

[srtiels]

Di_dee1...LOL...yes it is very similar.

With this baby accrding to the parents genetics there should not have been any grey babies.

I have had birds that only had 1 visual pearl and they were gentically pearls, but the single pearl was distinct and had a nice pearled pattern. This bird has 1 mottled feather that has no distinct pattern. So I don't know if it is a genetic pearl or not...Sigh :(

[silverflower]

I looked through your album, I wish I had time to look even longer, you have some great information on there. And this baby is not Jeffs offsprong, or later, right? I guess you have some testbreeding to do. In 2 years you will know. :)

Well I have read about crossovers, and it is my understanding that it only happens in sexlinked mutations, so I wonder if that is what happened. It confusses the heck out of me, but I think they say that it can crossover and combine two sexlinked mutations, or the mutations can detatch and cause a single or grey. I don't know if this is right, I'm just throwing it out there.

[srtiels]

LOL...when it comes to cross-overs...all of that goes over my head....I'm clueless. I go by what I see, and simple genetics. I do know that with 2 pearled parents you should get all pearls, in either sex, and the color variations depend on what other genes the parents are carrying.

[Catherine]

This is a very interesting looking mutation.

Just thinking aloud. Why do you think you should not have a normal grey? You have both parents with pied genes. When pied genes don't work to produce pieds, you get normal greys. The cinnnamon is recessive and the lutino, too (I think). That leaves the issue of WF. Photo number three is not clear enough to see, but did you mean white down? White down is for WF chicks. It surely is interesting.

[Tieltale]

The third is a back shot...and you can just barely see the odd feather showing from under the overlaying ones. The white streaks farther down the left side are baby down still stuck to the tips of the feathers.

That leaves the issue of WF. Photo number three is not clear enough to see, but did you mean white down? White down is for WF chicks. It surely is interesting.

Hmmm.. I thought the same when I read about the white down but if it is a whiteface.. then that gene deactivates the production of the yellow pigments. I thought that then means all yellows and oranges are totally absent. This one has that gorgeous yellow on its face :wacko:

[srtiels]

Catherine,

The parents:
Mother, Lutino pearl split to pied
Father, Pearl split to cinnamon, pied, WF

Both parents are pearl so there should be NO normal babies. Cinnamon and lutino are sex-linked, and pied is recessive. if the pearl was not in the genetics of both parents, then since they are split pied I can see getting a normal.

Good point on the white piece of down. It is actually off-white, which makes me suspect the split to WF may have been passed to this baby. When split to WF many times the down is a paler off white.

Which also reminds me of something.... Noodles was a visual nice golden pearl as a baby. He has molted out his pearls years ago. The pair pix is Noodles parents...Slick and Hanna. The grey baby has inherited Hannas nice broad shoulders, and nice alignment of the wings. But an interesting thing that is on Hannas side is that her father (the babies great-grandfather) was a pearl split to cinnamon pied. At about 6-7 years old he started molting in some partially pearled feathers. He was a normal pearl, and these partial pearls had cinnamon on them. Noodles is a 2001 bird, and 2 years ago he also started molting in a partial pearl (other 2 pix). You have to look close bit the upper part is cinnamon....which is odd because he is only split to cinnamon.

[silverflower]

Interesting, I can see the cinnamon. Since splits showing up is in the genes, maybe it is a grey split to pearl pied?

I don't have much time right now, but maybe later I will look up more on crossovers, and see if I have the right information, just to give you an idea. So in all these years you have not had an experience of a crossover? From what I understand they are common. Like I said I will do some research to get to the bottom of this. ;)

[silverflower]

Oh yeah I forgot to mention that I saw your other baby in the other post, it is so neat looking. Will it always look that way? I know you mentioned something about dominate silvers fading in another post. The dominate silvers I have seen don't look any thing like that, I had a feeling he was lying.

[srtiels]

This has nothing to do with crossovers. If the grey baby is a male it can 'possibly be' split to pied, and WF, and defintely lutino. If a hen split 'possibly' to pied and WF Test breeding later on can help determine spits, etc. Bottomline...2 pearls should be pearl.

I have had what the genetic people call crossovers quite a bit, but in my opinion from what I see it is the expected outcome from the genetics of these 'supposedly' crossover genes. Such as cinnamon lutino, once the mutation is reproduced the next generation has a higher % of visuals.

I have had alot of odd things happen over the years which is why I'm also glad I take alot of pix's of birds as they grow up. I have Thomasina an normal lightly pied split to Fallow WF. Well I noticed this year she has molted in two of these strange pearl like feathers. One on each side, spprox the same location. She is also defiantly related on her mothers side to the Noodles family.

[srtiels]

From the cockatiel color palette. No normals in the outcome...
------------------------------

Mother:Lutino Pearl Split To Pied
Father:Pearl Split To Pied Whiteface {X1: Cinnamon}
male offspring:
6% Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface {X1: Cinnamon} {X2: Lutino}
6% Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface {X2: Lutino}
6% Pied Pearl Split To {X1: Cinnamon} {X2: Lutino}
6% Pied Pearl Split To {X2: Lutino}
6% Pearl Split To Whiteface {X1: Cinnamon} {X2: Lutino}
6% Pearl Split To Whiteface {X2: Lutino}
6% Pearl Split To {X1: Cinnamon} {X2: Lutino}
6% Pearl Split To {X2: Lutino}
13% Pearl Split To Pied Whiteface {X1: Cinnamon} {X2: Lutino}
13% Pearl Split To Pied Whiteface {X2: Lutino}
13% Pearl Split To Pied {X1: Cinnamon} {X2: Lutino}
13% Pearl Split To Pied {X2: Lutino}
female offspring:
6% Pied Cinnamon Pearl Split To Whiteface
6% Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface
6% Pied Cinnamon Pearl
6% Pied Pearl
6% Cinnamon Pearl Split To Whiteface
6% Pearl Split To Whiteface
6% Cinnamon Pearl
6% Pearl
13% Cinnamon Pearl Split To Pied Whiteface
13% Pearl Split To Pied Whiteface
13% Cinnamon Pearl Split To Pied
13% Pearl Split To Pied

[silverflower]

OK, I am not trying at all to argue so pleeeease don't take it that way! I am only trying to explain WHY I thought it was caused by a crossover, and I was hoping it would help explain. This is something I got from the color pallet website. If you click on the link that says "My cockatiels' chicks don't match the Virtual Breeder's results. Why?" it takes you to another page, that takes you to another page that takes you to one last page that is here: http://www.cockatiel.org/genetics/#crossover It is the last 3 sentences of the "crossover" section.

I might be understanding it wrong, but that is just where I got the idea that that may be the cause of the grey, please don't hate me. :) And if you have been breeding as long as you have and you have never gotten a grey from 2 pearls, than I think I will believe that more than what I am reading.

Like I said you can read what each of the other pages say along the way, but this was the part that I had remembered readin a while back. that says you can get a grey when you shouldn't.

[Catherine]

I am a little confused about who is who in relation to the chick in question. However, it does look as though the WF factor is having an influence in your chick. I know that normal greys do pop up when there is enough grey around in the ancestry. I'll refer your picture to a knower of many things and see what he thinks.

[srtiels]

A crossover is not what is involved here. Since both parents are pearl, it might be safe to assume that this grey baby is also a pearl, with just 1 single partially expresed pearl feather.

Silverflower...yes DS (domiant silvers) are cool to work with because of the changes in color with each molt. Here is Nova showing some changes... And the 2nd will be of what the SF baby will one day look like (his father) Many can start off looking like normals and normal WF. The hens are harder to tell than the males...

[silverflower]

How pretty! Ihope I can find something like that around here in the next few years. I don't have the room now, but after we move I hoep I can get more birds and different mutations.

You know what would be neat is if it's a male and the pearls molt in, instead of out. I know it is highly unlikely, but here's hoping for you!

[srtiels]

I once had a WF cinnamon pied split to pearl baby molt in pearls his first molt. (have to find the pix)...but he molted them back out.

Here is a pix of Jeffs son which had ALOT of the odd mottled feathers on his back. Note he also had a dirty face, which cleaned up as he molted. He is shown next to the grey baby in the second pix. His mottled feathers turned yellow...but not a pied feather because the center vein is dark. And last is the grey babies mottled feather. I was hoping to catch it to get a clearer pix...

I'm hoping it is a hen. I have 2 males with the odd feathers. And since a grey with the odd feather it would be an interesting pairing with one of them next year.

[tielfan]

A crossover is not what is involved here. Since both parents are pearl, it might be safe to assume that this grey baby is also a pearl, with just 1 single partially expresed pearl feather.
I agree that it's not a crossover. The male has pearl on both his X's, and if they traded places it wouldn't change the outcome at all. The genetic calculator at http://www.gencalc.com/gen/eng_genc.php?sp=0Cock takes crossovers into account, and confirms that there shouldn't be any grey chicks in the mix.

My best guess is that the pied genes are messing with the pearl. I've heard somewhere that on birds that are both heavy pied and pearl, the pearl effect may not be fully expressed. Which is probably what led to the infamous discussion of "reduced pearl" on another board. It seems odd that just being split pied could interfere with the pearl this way but I suppose it isn't impossible. There has to be SOME reason this chick looks the way it does.

Some possible alternate explanations: a spontaneous mutation has resulted in this chick not getting the genes you'd expect, or has caused the colors to express differently than usual. Events like this would be fairly rare but not impossible.

I also wonder if our old friend the hypothetical spot gene is on the scene. The marks on the chick's upper chest could be pearling or they could be something else. The chick has scalloping on the lower belly which seems to be very common with spotted chicks. We've speculated before about the spot gene possibly being something that interferes with other mutations. And he could be split whiteface, which is frequently associated with spots.

A little update on my spotted birds: Squeebis molted out all his spots and stripes and replaced them with normal grey feathers. He's an ordinary but handsome fellow now, more vividly colored than his father. Two chicks in this year's second clutch ( a normal grey male and a cinnamon whiteface female) have faint stripes on their chests that I didn't even notice at first. They're not nearly as distinctive as their older brothers but I think it's interesting that I'm getting this much variation within the same family (meaning spots on some chests and stripes on others).

Getting back on topic: which back feather do you consider to be the odd-looking one? Because I see several that might fill the bill. If it's the little white-colored one on the "shoulder" part of the wing it might have something to do with the spot gene. Some of my chicks have feathers like that, and I don't know if it's normal or related to their mysterious genetic heritage.

[srtiels]

I also wonder if our old friend the hypothetical spot gene is on the scene. The marks on the chick's upper chest could be pearling or they could be something else. The chick has scalloping on the lower belly which seems to be very common with spotted chicks. We've speculated before about the spot gene possibly being something that interferes with other mutations.
-----------------------------------------------------

I've wondered as to the spot gene too. And in keeping with the spot gene is the intensive speckling under the wing along the leading edge.

Jeffs son has a baby...well when I broke down nestboxes I moved an egg of his to another pair. He took up with a light pied. And the baby is pinfeathering in grey, and I'm watching the cheeks to see if DYC, and also hoping for a 3rd generation odd back feather...but too early to tell. But one thing that puzzles me is the very low, almost no pieds produced from the Jeff family, even when paired with visual pieds. The same with visual pearls...almost zop. With the genetics there should have been a higher % of pearls and pieds in the jeff family. maybe this odd feather gene is supressing other gene???

I'm also suspecting it is the infamous 'reduced pearl'...LOL

It is the slightly mottled speckled on in the left lower shoulder.

Poor Squeebis lost his spots. it will be interesting to see if he passes them on to the next generation.

As to my grey...I think the spots show up more because the bird has a very bright yellow (brighter than pix's)

How about those markings on the Miami bird at the beginning of the thread?

[tielitsover]

I haven't a clue what you have going on there srtiels, just wanted to say that they are some very pretty and interesting looking birds, hopefully you'll figure out whats going on soon

[tielfan]

Messed-up pearl is my best guess for the Miami bird although I don't know why. There's no obvious evidence of the spot gene on that bird.

I have another little mystery on my hands. There were two whiteface cinnamon girls in the latest clutch. One has faint stripes on her chest as I mentioned before. The other one has a single white feather on the back of her head, like a pied tick. There haven't been signs of a pied split on any other birds in this family. That includes the parents and a total of 20 chicks, although naturally I wouldn't be able to see it on the five lutino girls. So I don't know what's going on.

[srtiels]

The other one has a single white feather on the back of her head, like a pied tick. There haven't been signs of a pied split on any other birds in this family.
-----------------------------------------------------

Hmmm...that is one you'll have to hold back and pair with a pied next year to see if it is a pied split.

Is the feather solid white in color? if there is a darker center vein to the feather then something else id going on.

In going back on either parents was there a pied or split pied in the background? Splits can travel for several generations and only pop up when paired with another bird with the same split.

[tielfan]

It would be interesting to see what happens but I'm not planning to do any experimental breeding. I'm not really a breeder, I just have one pair that makes babies for me. I have another pair that wants to make babies but I won't let them. Squeebis isn't going to have a next generation unless he peels himself off his sister and settles his affections on someone more appropriate.

I haven't inspected the white feather too closely and she isn't in the mood for head scritches right now. It looks solid white to the casual gaze but it could turn out to be something different.

I don't have any information on the parents' ancestry other than what shows on the birds and what shows up in the nestbox. The breeder had some pied birds and did their breeding in a group aviary so there could be anything in there. I haven't seen any signs of a pied split before this, but if the spot gene causes interference then that might be the reason.

Since Squeebis has demonstrated that males lose their spots at maturity, it's entirely possible that his father Buster is spotted and I just don't know it. He already had his mature plumage when I got him.

[srtiels]

In looking at Buster in you signature illus you can see an area where he might have had the spots.

Aren't genetics fun....

[tielfan]

Now that you mention it, I think I can see marks on Buster's chest where spots used to be. I don't trust my eyes and my imagination though - I can't even tell where Squeebis's spots used to be, and I KNOW that he had them.

If Buster really does have the spot gene I'm still in the dark about its transmission mode. I don't think it can be recessive, because if both parents had visual spots then all the chicks would be spotted. I don't think it's sex-linked because I'm mostly seeing it on male chicks. If it's dominant and both parents have it I should be getting a lot more spotted chicks. I'm starting to lean more toward some sort of multi-gene interaction, with whiteface involved most of the time and possibly some other genes influencing the effect as well.

I've had a closer look at Cookie's odd head feather. It's a small feather so it's hard to see all the details, but it looks to me like it's completely white. It also turns out that there's at least one more feather like it, kind of hiding under the first one. It takes a while for me to figure out what is happening on my chicks' heads since their naughty mother is a head-picker. It looks like I might have a pied gene in my little flock after all.

[tielfan]

A new hypothesis has arrived: maybe I've been defining things wrong and ALL my chicks are spotted. Only a few of them have marks on the head and chest but they all have speckled wing edges. The greys and cinnamons anyway, I can't actually tell with the lutinos. Belly scalloping is basically universal too.

If all the chicks are spotted and Buster has spots then recessive is possible. So is dominant; if at least one of my parent birds is homozygous for it then all the chicks will be spotted. If it's dominant, it's conceivable that there might be a double-factor effect, where getting the gene from both parents has a stronger effect than getting it from just one.

[srtiels]

If it's dominant, it's conceivable that there might be a double-factor effect, where getting the gene from both parents has a stronger effect than getting it from just one.
---------------------------------

That might explain why some spots and stripes are more prominant on some birds. Buster does look like he had spots at one point. And under his wing just above the work buster looks a little varigated in the grey.

[tielfan]

Getting back to your birds... I think there's something in this family that is interfering with the expression of the other mutations. It might be the spot gene or it might be something else, but the spot gene does seem to be present.

[srtiels]

Yes...it does seem to be present. I'm wondering if the split to pied is going harwire because visual pied from these pairings are scarce. And this grey baby doesn't have a pied tick mark on the back of the head

[srtiels]

I noticed yesterday she has a grey feather on the tight shoulder that has a yellow bar going straight acoss it.

[atvchick95]

I don't know what is going on - but your grey has the prettiest yellow face i've ever seen I like how it looks like a racoons face kinda lol

wonder if there are HALF SIDERS in the tiel world like there is in the Budgie world??

in the budgie world a half sider is one color on one side and one color on the other side being "split in half" it is very very rare and you can NOT breed them they just happen it is a fluke where "twins" don't develope right and become one (like Siamese twins in the human world) the bird gets the genetics of both babies in one

This is what one looks like

http://www.budgieplace.com/v_halfsider2.jpg

http://www.budgieplace.com/v_halfsider1.jpg


Half-Sider
The half-sider is actually not a true variety. The trait is not genetically inherited. Rather, it is a congenital condition. Visually, this budgie is split vertically, with the appearance and color of two distinct varieties appearing in splotches or sections divided by the vertical center line. I believe that this is a condition called tetragametic chimerism (javascript:New('http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics)#Tetragametic_chimerism')) in which fraternal twin zygotes fuse at a very early stage in the womb, forming one individual with the tissues and DNA of both twins.
Basic Genetics:
NONE - This is a congenital condition

[srtiels]

Do you have a half-sider???? If so that would be cool. I have heard of them but never seen one aside from interent pix's

Thanks...the grey has a really pretty face, with so much bright yellow and the yellow rings around the eyes...ot does look like a mask :)

[srtiels]

ATV...I wonder if half-siders can occur with tiels? On rare occassions I have had DIS and live twin hatches, and there have always been 2 color mutations per egg.

[dragon_tiels]

That would be interesting to see in cockatiels. I know with lovebirds it happens, I had no idea that it was twins though...it still might not be. But it is the same thing, it is not something you can breed, it just happens. My mom breeds lovebirds and sometime this past year she bought one, it was pretty cool. Unfortunately somehow it got out of the cage, otherwise I would go get a better look at it now that I know what it could possibly be. She also had one show up in the nest this past year, but that one died too. Very interesting.

[tielfan]

Here's evidence that they exist. http://www.theparrotsocietyuk.org/pdfs/psukindex.pdf includes a list of color pictures that appeared in Parrot Society magazine. The top of page 11 shows that they printed a picture of a half-sider cockatiel in 1986.

[atvchick95]

Do you have a half-sider???? If so that would be cool. I have heard of them but never seen one aside from interent pix's

Thanks...the grey has a really pretty face, with so much bright yellow and the yellow rings around the eyes...ot does look like a mask :)

no but I wish i did - I actually think they're the prettiest of all the mutations in budgies

but the pics i posted game from www.budgieplace.com

That would be interesting to see in cockatiels. I know with lovebirds it happens, I had no idea that it was twins though...it still might not be. But it is the same thing, it is not something you can breed, it just happens. My mom breeds lovebirds and sometime this past year she bought one, it was pretty cool. Unfortunately somehow it got out of the cage, otherwise I would go get a better look at it now that I know what it could possibly be. She also had one show up in the nest this past year, but that one died too. Very interesting.

now see i didn't know it happened in love birds too I thought it was just a budgie thing LOL

Here's evidence that they exist. http://www.theparrotsocietyuk.org/pdfs/psukindex.pdf includes a list of color pictures that appeared in Parrot Society magazine. The top of page 11 shows that they printed a picture of a half-sider cockatiel in 1986.


well now that answered one mystery question(mine of course) now to figure out if thats what sr tiels , tiels are or if its something totally different

[tielfan]

Here's a picture of a half-sider lovebird from http://www.ponytailjoes.com/fischer%27s_half_sider.htm

http://www.ponytailjoes.com/Fischer-half-white-side4-1.jpg

Here's another one from somebody's Photobucket album with the user name lutino1:
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m133/lutino1/mutation.jpg

There are pictures of half-sider conures at http://www.fwa-aviary.com/html/pyrrhura_2003_hatch.html Alas, I can't find any pictures of half-sider cockatiels.

[atvchick95]

those are gorgeous lovebirds I don't know why but to me it just makes them seem prettier

Figures the one you want is the one you probably won't find but you'll find everything else

at least thats how me and search engines go lol

[tielfan]

I've been slowly plowing through my Australian book on cockatiels, and today I read some things that made me think of your birds.

(page 65) "From wild caught cockatiels I have bred youngsters that show pied markings such as spots of varying size, usually on the head and neck, mottled feet and toenails without colour. Neither parent showed any noticeable sign of pied. This particular pair bred 22 youngsters over a period of three years. Not one of these youngsters was pearled. However, when I bred a son with the most pied marks from this pair with a normal hen, they then produced one pearl hen per nest. Some of his sons proved to carry forward both the pied and pearl pattern genetic instructions. I still have this cock bird. I believe the pearling he produces in his daughters to be slightly different from the other pearl patterns we have. The genetic control of this family appears to be unstable in the inheritance of the normal cockatiel feather pattern"

(Page 70) "Cock cockatiels do not lose their pearls, their markings are simply covered over by the necessary melanin that indicates sexual maturity. When pearl cocks are aged or ill enough that they do not produce breeding hormones their pearls will become visible again... [next part not really relevant, but interesting] We have found that many of the cocks who retain their pearls at maturity have not developed any interest in breeding. I theorise that they never developed sexually because hens of different ages and experience simply ignore them and will even encourage an immature cock in preference."

(page 79, talking about Australian Silver which is genetically different from silver in other countries) "Hens often have a speckled chest but I have never noticed a cock bird with this characteristic." Perhaps another clue that chest spots are activated by certain genes.

[srtiels]

We have found that many of the cocks who retain their pearls at maturity have not developed any interest in breeding. I theorise that they never developed sexually because hens of different ages and experience simply ignore them and will even encourage an immature cock in preference."
-----------------------------------

Hmmm...#4 is 8 years old. He is a horney bird, and an excellent daddy.

Today I was out looking at the birds in the flight. My little grey baby from a few months ago still has (it's a hen) her mottled feather. But I noticed that a WF hen has molted in a new feather. I'm clueless on what is causi8ng this. I talked with Rick, and he mentioned there is another breeder in North FL that is noticing the same thing.

Oh...and I'm suspecting that that odd bird I found in Miami is a half-sider.

[tielfan]

#4 is 8 years old. He is a horney bird, and an excellent daddy.
The book is 15 years old so the spot-retaining male pearls have had some time to clean up their act! There are bound to be individual variations anyway.

[srtiels]

Sigh...yesterday I was out looking at birds again. And again found an oddity. I have a WF-SFDS fledgling and I noticed that the tip of the 2 long tail feathers have barring on them...which these feathers should not.