Cinnamon Pearl Pied-Male or Female

[spike09]

I am new to the Forum and was hoping you could help me. We just purchased our first cockatiel from a reputable store. We definitely wanted a male, so we had been searching for months for the perfect bird. We did not want to buy a baby 3/4 months old only to find out later it is a female, so we were searching for a dna'd male that we liked the coloring of, or a find a baby and have it dna'd if it were possible for it to be male.

When I called the store to check for males they had this 7 month old cinnamon pearl pied that they were sure was male due to it's coloring at this age. I went to see him and loved his coloring. I asked if they were sure it was male and they said yes because of the coloring again and also they witnessed him trying to mate with a female. At the time I did not understand the pearling being lost on males after the first molt, but I assume this is what they were referring to. They pointed to the pearling on his back and said this would go away with time. I'm now wondering if he was all pearled, and lost most of it with the first molt but I didn't know enough to ask the question at the time :( Still don't know too much!

Never gave it another thought until a few days ago I started whistling at him and he squatted on the perch and made this sound, can't describe well but it was like a breathy repetitive chirp? and his tail was quivering. He has since done it every day when he is whistled at. I tried to research on the net what this meant and everything points to female mating behavior? Now I'm stumped, he does none of the male behavior traits that I keep reading, heart wings, bobbing, tapping, singing and whistling. He doesn't do much of anything really. The personality seems more like a female but I'm not sure if it's just him adjusting to the new home? I can't tell from the tail feathers if there is barring or not, and I can't get a look under his wings he won't show me.

I am going to have him DNA's at his first vet appt next month but the suspense is killing me. I'll be shocked if we ended up with a female after the looking around we did. He is already a member of the family so there is nothing much we can do about it, but I would be dissapointed if it's a female.

Any help would be appreciated!

Happy New Year.

[srtiels]

Your pix is too washed out to see anything. Would would have to post a clear pix of the back veiw of the bird.

From what you are describing, if the bird still has visual pearling on its back, and the pattern is not broken or faded in some areas you have a female.

[spike09]

I hope these are better, thanks for the response.

[srtiels]

Thanks...thes pix's are better.

I can see from looking at the pattern how the petshop could think that this bird was a male. Unfortunitely all pearl pieds can vary greatly in the intensity of the pearled pattern on the back. IF the back pattern is still the same in a month then I would say you have a female. save these pix's for comparison.

You have a very nice looking tiel.

[spike09]

Thank you we think he (or she) is nice looking too no matter what the sex.

Now I'm wondering if the pet shop had recently acquired the bird just before I purchased it. Originally I thought they had seen it loose it's pearls through the first molt, but maybe they didn't and where basing their sexing on the way it looks right now. (hope that make sense). They just seem so knowledgeable to me, they only deal with birds and they were breeders of cockatiels themselves. They have a picture of a cinnamon pearl pied hen on their website that looks just like ours, they knew that one was a female? Sorry to ramble, I'll speak with the store at some point about this just so I'm clear on things.

I looked at your website that was in your address and LOVED it. Thank you so much for posting all that information. I learned more from your site than all the reading I have done these past few days. Especially the photo album, pictures explain things so well. You even have a male pearl in the process of molting there. I can't thank you enough for the picture of the dangerous cage with the sliding door. Our cage (that we purchased at the same store) has FOUR of these exact same doors and the hook part is open just like you described. Our new friend has a band too! Today we are going to take care of it by clamping all 8 (2 per door) hooks down tightly. That is great information that everyone should know.

Very grateful.

[srtiels]

Sorry for the delay in replying. I'm glad you enjoyed the site. And yes, it is rare but banded birds can get caught on those type of cage doors.

If the petshop buys birds from other breeders that are weaned it is an easy mistake to think that your bird was older than they were told, and a young male just starting to molt.

I made the same mistake with a forum member not long ago. She was interested in a bird at the humane society, sent me a pix which was the back view. the bird had a patchy pearled pattern liked yours and I told her it was a young male just starting to molt. OOPS!...she got it and it laid an egg not long after she got it.

[Lacedolphin]

The cinnamon coloring is also sex-linked. Momma has to be a visual cinnamon and the male a carrier to have a cinnamon coloring, if she isn't visually a cinnamon, but the baby is, I think it has to be a girl regaurdless of pearling. At least that's how I think it goes from my reading and understanding. Someone with more genetic knowledge can chime in to let me know if I understand correctly. My little rescue I'm handfeeding is also a cinn pearl pied but his mom was a visual cinn pearl and daddy a white face grey, maybe someone can help with that genetics. The breeder didn't want him because he wasn't a WF.

[srtiels]

My little rescue I'm handfeeding is also a cinn pearl pied but his mom was a visual cinn pearl and daddy a white face grey, maybe someone can help with that genetics

Since your baby is a pied, both parents were split to pied. The father was also split to cinnamon pearl. So the baby can be either sex.

In regards to the breeder wanting or not wanting a baby that is irrevelant. When breeders are working with colors thatey CAN NOT keep all the babies, or overtime be over-run by excess tiels, and they should NOt be publiclly faulted for this.

[Lacedolphin]

I understand that and would not publicly fault him except for the fact he barely cared if they lived or not since they were the wrong color and let the parents pluck them bald. My issue is they way he treated the undesired colors in care, instead of raising helthy birds then selling them.

[srtiels]

Most likely the plucking was the result of leaving the baby in the nest, which parent birds will pluck them when old enough to fledge. I have had several instances when I first started breeding where the babies were fine, and an hour later scalped.

I work with various mutations and there comes a time when I have to ONLY hold onto specific colors, and let the rest go. At first I did not do that and in the early 90's I had 800+ cockatiels. To the novice it sounds cold to hear a breeder say a certain baby is unwanted or needed because of color or whatever, but that is life, and others are not in their shoes.

[spike09]

and spike is in fact a female. The pet store was surprised and not expecting me to be right:o

We are glad to have this finalized but are a little sad that we won't have a singer. If in the future we decide to "try again" for a male is it possible to have male and female but not have them breed? We really do not want to, or feel we have the right to be dealing with babies.

I'll probably post this in a seperate thread along with my other questions.

Thanks for all your help.

[davfeg99]

hello, i am new to this site but i was looking at your posts.. i saw that the one flight feather was growing back... it is a yellow feather and holding the wing open and looking at the feather in the light, females will have the wing spots on the feathers... males will be solid....easy way to tell when the wings are clipped and start to grow back.. hope this helps in the future.. thanks

[srtiels]

it is a yellow feather and holding the wing open and looking at the feather in the light, females will have the wing spots on the feathers... males will be solid....
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Hi...and welcome to the site :)

The above is not true when it comes to pied feathers. Pied wing flights are a solid yellow with no spots. But, the above is true with many of the non-pied mutations.