Does this make sense?

[sweetrsue]

From one pair I got three grays, one cinnamon and one Cinnamon Pearl. My male is a visual gray and my hen is a Cinnamon. So I know my male is split for Cinnamon and for Pearl or else I would not get any of these other mutations. I got curious to know if I was correct in assuming what kind of splits would be passed to my male offspring. Like what percentage would be split for pearl. I knew all of them would be split for Cinnamon because of Mom. So the Virtual breeder says of the female babies I would get 50% gray and 50% Cinnamon Pearl and of the male babies I would get 50% gray and 50% Cinnamon split to Pearl. This surprised me as I would have thought I could get Cinnamon females or Normal Pearl females as well as Males split to either. This is telling me that the only normal Cinnamons I get would be males and that those would be the only ones split for Pearl. Does anyone else have a genetic calculator that they use? The one I used was called Color Pallate. My male is Gray split to Cinnamon and Pearl and my hen is a Cinnamon. Let me know if you have another genetic calculator 'cause I'd like to run these mutations thru another source and see if they come up with the same thing.

[sweetrsue]

I found another site that contradicts the first one I found:

This would be the expected outcome of the above mating...50% of the males will be split to Pearl, 50% of the males will be split to Cinnamon; 50% of the females will be pearl and 50% will be cinnamon. But how do you think we ever got the beautiful double mutation Cinnamon-Pearl? It was the result of crossover.

The Above mating paired a Gray male split to Cinnamon and Pearl with a common Gray hen. As they point out this isn't the way you would expect it to work.

[PtsRPpl2]

OK, now I'm really confused. I always find the genetics confusing anyway but now you're saying there could be different outcomes, that it's not so sure??

[birdieness]

Tiels can hide their splits so anything is possible. Hugs appears to be a normal grey but he's actually spit to cinnamon pearl. If hugs was breedable (which he is not as he plucks his mate) and i could get a cinnamon pearl pied i'd get some amazing babies lol.

Cute babies btw. Nice variation.

[sweetrsue]

Yours has the same hidden genes as mine. I got one Cinnamon male (Mom is a Cinnamon too) and one Cinnamon Pearl female. I would have guessed I could get either Cinnamon OR Pearl females. I also thought that my male babies could be split for either. The Virtual breeder says no however. That if I get plain Cinnamons they will be males split for Pearl and it says I will only get Cinnamon Pearl females and Normal Grays. Wouldn't you think I could get regular Pearl girls and Cinnamon Girls? Or is it because the gene exists as a combination gene in the Father. So can only be passed to the female babies as a combined gene? That would be handy as I will always know what my Cinnamons and Cinnamon Pearls are from this pair.

[huskymom]

if you can still get normal grey females I think you can also get just plain cinnamon ones.. or plain pearls..

just to consider is that ANY pearl you get from this pair either cinnamon or not it´s going to be female... but ANY cinnamon you get could well be male OR female as both parents carry the gene...

[sweetrsue]

That's what I would have thought but not according to the Virtual Breeder. It's starting to make sense to me tho. Since the Cinnamon Pearl gene is a crossover gene in the male it has been combined. Since the female babies take their color gene in a sex linked mutation from Dad the gene passes to them complete. I also now understand why the same gene only gets passed to my boys as Cinnamon (Mom is Cinnamon) ans the pearl is passed as a split (Mom is not Pearl). This is a new level of understanding. Now what I want to find out is how temperature effects crossover genes. It was mentioned in passing on a site I visited but he didn't say how it effected them. ie: warmer=more? or what.

[huskymom]

I too somewhere read that temp influenced in how many females or how many males... can´t remember where though :p... but it´s useful in a controlled environment or in incubators if you want such amount of certain sex babies... not sure if it has influence on genes...¿¿??

[sweetrsue]

I know that the temp of reptile eggs determines the percentage of male to females so it would make sense to me that this would work with birds. This guy was talking about Crossover genes being passed. But since the crossover genes he was talking about are sex linked it would make sense that if you could produce more females you would produce more crossover genes ie: Cinnamon Pearl

[Bea]

I would've thought you could get female cinnamons, pearls and normals as well.

[sweetrsue]

So far from this pair just Tiny Cinnamon Pearl Female. Brownie Cinnamon male and 3 grays. It does follow what the virtual breeder said.

[tielfan]

Apparently a male with splits to both cinnamon and pearl can have both splits on the same X chromosome, or cinnamon on one X and pearl on the other. Your male probably has both splits on the same X chromosome, since you wouldn't normally get any cinnamon pearl chicks if they were on different ones. If I understand right, a crossover would have the same effect as having both on the same X, except that a crossover would basically be a one-shot deal while having both splits occur normally on the same X would give you a high probability of more cinny pearls in the future.

According to http://www.kirstenmunson.com/cockatiels/blue.html which I think is the same virtual breeder everyone is talking about:

Mother:Cinnamon
Father:Grey Split To {X1: Cinnamon Pearl}

male offspring:
50% Cinnamon Split To {X1: Pearl}
50% Grey Split To {X2: Cinnamon}

female offspring:
50% Cinnamon Pearl
50% Grey

If the genes were on separate X's then this is what you'd expect without any crossovers:

Mother:Cinnamon
Father:Grey Split To {X1: Cinnamon} {X2: Pearl}

male offspring:
50% Cinnamon
50% Grey Split To {X1: Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}

female offspring:
50% Cinnamon
50% Pearl

[sweetrsue]

I wonder how the virtual breeder would differenciate. They just have you click what you know the bird is split for. I think it's pretty cool to KNOW that the one Cinnamon I got is male (I have had a few other indicators) and that he is split for pearl! Good info to have.

[tielfan]

If you go to the virtual breeder and look at the Male section, you'll notice that there are two columns where you can specify which X the sex-linked mutations are on. My Buster is split to whiteface, cinnamon, and lutino, and I used the virtual breeder to figure out that his cinnamon and lutino genes were on separate X's. I know this because I got a cinnamon whiteface chick, which according to the virtual breeder wouldn't happen if the cinnamon and lutino were on the same X.