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View Full Version : As if I wasn't confused enough ....

atvchick95
03-07-2009, 06:20 PM
* * Warning LONG post ahead BUT i didn't want to leave anything out * *


This topic is a run off of this one http://www.talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=8423 i posted Yesterday

This First video is of Jill, towards the end it's of Sun Dance (he was getting a bit irritated i was paying him no attention :p)

second one is just jill

I've zoomed in on to Jill in both to show it is coming out of her! didn't really need to on the 1st one she did it loud enough to know its her second on though you can see her chest area moving since she won't keep her head up

Video 1
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/RednecksDoItBest/My%20Birds/Cockatiel%20Pictures/th_JillandSunDance.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/RednecksDoItBest/My%20Birds/Cockatiel%20Pictures/?action=view&current=JillandSunDance.flv)

Video 2
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/RednecksDoItBest/My%20Birds/Cockatiel%20Pictures/th_Jill.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/RednecksDoItBest/My%20Birds/Cockatiel%20Pictures/?action=view&current=Jill.flv)


Well i guess some of you might like to know how this is confusion for me

I got this pair Jack and Jill about 8 months or so ago , The guy i got them off of was not sure which was the male and which was the female,They were sold to him as a "proven pair" BUT never bred for him, So he was just going by what the person he got them from said.

So after having them for a few months (and they never made a single peep Other then when we'd hold them to put them in a new cage, or trim their wings they'd scream) they were very quiet birds

we set them up to breed, 1st clutch only one baby, all other eggs were infertile 2nd clutch 2 babies 1st one died at 3 days old, all other eggs infertile

then 2nd of Jan. "jack" died out of no where, he was fine when i went in that morning, he was fine when my b/f went in and fed them all birdy bread mid after noon, 20 mins later (if that) my daughter went through to go to her room and found him dead in the cage

Jill raised thier surviving baby on her own and she(the baby) is doing great is now 3 months old

Even after Jack Died, Jill never made a peep unless we were holding her, I thought she'd call out for him (like all the stories i've read) but nope nothing, Then as the previous thread states and the Videos show she's bolting out whistles , She has Bart's mating whistle down pat to a T (each of my tiels have thier own mating whistling" so with out even walking in to the bird room we know who's wanting a piece of nookie


So now here I sit in a state of confusion Was it Really Jack who died, and I just have one extremely Smart female (i mean the females are bound to pick up the male sounds in this house - they really have no choice the boys start at around 7 am and don't stop til 9 pm)

I know females are capable of talking, whistling etc. but all the stories i read of those females were all single birds no other bird was in the house

OR was it Jill who died, and Not Jack after all

Even know there color part of their mutations were 2 different things, they looked a lot a like, and I was just going by what i was told from the guy who I got them from - which in turn was going by what he was told by the person he got them from! So i could of had it wrong from the start

We did pull jill out last night and do our sex test on her (we've done it on all our birds, its only been wrong 1 time so far that I know of ) it has been done for many many many years, it started out as a way to sex chickens
and its nothing more then a nut on a string (when it goes in circles its a girl, if it sways back and forth its a boy) did this on jill and every time it said Girl

now I just don't know any more!

I think i'm going to leave her and Sun Dance set up with the nest box we gave them last night for a little while and see if anything appears (eggs) if not I'll give sun dance back his woman (goldie) and go from there
xxxSpikexxx
03-07-2009, 06:31 PM
Did they really look alot like each other? Mabey it was Jill who really died? Mabey from becoming egg bound? I would get a dna test before trying to pair Jill with Sundance because if they are both boys it is just going to be frustrating for them.
atvchick95
03-07-2009, 06:59 PM
Did they really look alot like each other? Mabey it was Jill who really died? Mabey from becoming egg bound? I would get a dna test before trying to pair Jill with Sundance because if they are both boys it is just going to be frustrating for them.

yep at least to me they sure did look identical, Jill was done with the clutch when "jack died" the babies were hatching.

here is a couple pics of them

"jill''

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/RednecksDoItBest/My%20Birds/Cockatiel%20Pictures/Jack%20And%20Jill/JillAgain-1.jpg

"jack"

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/RednecksDoItBest/My%20Birds/Cockatiel%20Pictures/Jack%20And%20Jill/Jackagain.jpg


and of course you can't visually sex them because they're at least 2 mutations and Pied is one of them LOL
atvchick95
03-07-2009, 07:04 PM
Wow I never noticed this before and actually just noticed it on the above pic of "jack" i thought I saw bars on the tail so i went to see if i had a better picture of him, all i have is this one, its a back shot but there most certainly are bars! and both are Mature adults "jills band says 06" "jacks" said either 05 or 04 I can't remember now

but see the bars!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/RednecksDoItBest/My%20Birds/Cockatiel%20Pictures/Jack%20And%20Jill/Jack.jpg

but if she was the pearl then i shouldn't of got any pearl babies, and both their babies are pearls

ahh so darn confused lol
TeacherMom
03-07-2009, 07:25 PM
Isn't the barring and the pearling a female trait? Well I know that pearling can remain on mature males but I understand it to be that barring was a sure way to tell a female. It looks like your "jack" might just be your Jill.
atvchick95
03-07-2009, 08:36 PM
Isn't the barring and the pearling a female trait? Well I know that pearling can remain on mature males but I understand it to be that barring was a sure way to tell a female. It looks like your "jack" might just be your Jill.


I didn't even know it was pearling markings until they had their 1st baby and she feathered out

"Jack" was supposed to be Emerald (A.K.A. Olive) and every thing I read about that mutation said they have Scalloping that are often confused for Pearls So I chalked those pearls up to that

Until their 1st baby was born, then the 2nd one looks identical to the 1st one may have more pearls then the other, but other then that They can be twins only months apart in age :)

here are the babies

back shot of the oldest (J.J)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/RednecksDoItBest/My%20Birds/Cockatiel%20Pictures/Jack%20And%20Jill/JackandJillsbabyfromtheback.jpg

Here is the Youngest (lucky)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/RednecksDoItBest/My%20Birds/Cockatiel%20Pictures/Jack%20And%20Jill/LuckyandIwatchingtv-1.jpg

once J.J. Was born I took it jack was the pearl, and just retained a few , I had a Pearl Pied Male that after his final Adult molt he had just a few pearls left and his too were more out on the edge of the wings like "jacks"

When I use the Gentic Calcuator and Put Jill as the Pearl I get NO visual Pearls at all - So this has me even MORE confused

See this would of been the out come if Jill was Pearl


Mother:Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Pearl
Father:Olive Pied

male offspring:
50% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Split To Olive {X2: Pearl}
50% Pied Split To Olive {X2: Pearl}

female offspring:
50% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Split To Olive
50% Pied Split To Olive


So unless Jack is split to Pearl - which I have a couple females I can try him out on.One is a Pied, If he is Split to Pearl I should get Pearl Pieds

and If i don't then I'm right back to square 1 LOL
kimmikefids
03-07-2009, 09:47 PM
if jack is in fact jill u still could have got pearl babies because the other must have been split for it...sounds like jack was in fact a female tho and the male is left
atvchick95
03-07-2009, 09:54 PM
if jack is in fact jill u still could have got pearl babies because the other must have been split for it...sounds like jack was in fact a female tho and the male is left

Yeah I've used the Cockatiel Genetic calculator with 2 of my non pearl birds, that are old enough to breed ( I only have 3 non pearl females and one is too young) and I'm going to put him with Nibbles (don't know when yet ) then in the girls I'll get Pied and Pearl Pied

and if i get more eggs then i should (more then 6) and NO babies, I know jack is in fact Jill, BUT if i get babies, and no pearls, then I don't know lol

I just can't figure out why it's taken him a year(well almost a year) to be noisy , they were both extremely quiet (at one point i swore i had 2 girls) until the baby arrived

I got them on June 7, 2008, and they've been with all the other birds since July 08 - So it's not new to them being around the other birds and my other male tiels have been this loud all day long since the day I got them. (almost 2 years ago)
sweetrsue
03-08-2009, 12:07 AM
I have one male who never sings when he is around other males. I also notice that many males once paired up don't feel the need to sing.
kitti
03-09-2009, 07:56 AM
Typical off males, lazy!!
atvchick95
03-09-2009, 08:31 AM
Last night I took Sun dance out and put him in with the boys, And Moved Nibbles in

Earlier yesterday while i was in cleaning up, Sun Dance was sitting on the perch of the nest box, and Jack (man this is going to be hard remembering it wasn't jack who died after all), was walking by - not trying to get any where near the nest box just passing by and Sun Dance Lunged at him (sun Dance doesn't lung at no one!) So they got moved around. I put Nibbles in and she went straight to the perch on the nest box but then it was bed time So I don't know if she went in last night or just chilled sitting on the perch

But This pairing will Also help me determine Jack's actual mutation

Cause if the genders were backwards I have a feeling the mutations were to

So here is the outcome I should get if he is Actually a Emerald(AKA OLIVE) Pied Split to Pearl - Paired to a Pied


Mother:Pied
Father:Olive Pied Split To {X2: Pearl}

male offspring:
50% Pied Split To Olive
50% Pied Split To Olive {X1: Pearl}

female offspring:
50% Pied Split To Olive
50% Pied Pearl Split To Olive


And this is what i should get if he is actually The Silver Pied That we were told Jill was(but Jill had the "pearls" and the "green wash" of the emerald But i also thought she was Jack)


Mother:Pied
Father: Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Split To {X2: Pearl}

male offspring:
25% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied
25% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Split To {X1: Pearl}
25% Pied
25% Pied Split To {X1: Pearl}

female offspring:
25% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied
25% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Pearl
25% Pied
25% Pied Pearl


and with this out come if I get any Babies that look like J.J. or Lucky (Dominate Silver Pearl Pied) Then I'll know Jack is in fact the Silver Pied and Jill was the Emerald, If i get the 1st one then Jack is the Emerald.

But ya know with my luck I'll get all Pied Pearls (since it is an outcome for both mutations) And I'll still be left scratching my head in total confusion :p