egg with no dad...?

[DeBree420]

my baby Cinnamaroll laid an egg...
there is no male around at all...she dosent have a breeding box, she has just taken a roost on the floor of her bedtime cage... which is annoying cos its always really dirty there as the budgies (11) and cinnamaroll always climb around on top, i feed them fresh grass seed there..which i suppose is why she did it there (fresh dry grass stalks and heeps of soft husk)..
but anywhoo... what do i do about it?..
she is protecting it fairly hard at the moment
usually she is the most sooky bird... the egg has seen her personality fly to the other extreme as if she has bipolar or something :p
any help?

[Aly]

Ok-First, do not remove the egg. She will realize it's not fertile and will stop sitting on it in a couple of weeks. If you remove it she will try and replace it which really drains their calcium. She will probably lay more every other day until she has her "clutch" -it's ussually up to 8 eggs. Keep in mind it takes alot out of her to lay these eggs so make sure she gets her calcium and vitamins. You can give her some boiled egg with shell-just crushed up, cuttlebone is a must, a mineral block and veggies. Also it's important to know the signs of an eggbound hen. When a hen is either not in great healthy, older or has a calcium defienciency the egg will either not form or get stuck. Her vent area will get large, she's hold her wings out, walk around, look strained,etc. It's important to keep the humidity at a higher level to help her and get her to the vet asap! Also, you will notice that she poops alot less and when she does it's ussually huge. They hold it in and that's a good indicator that another egg is on the way. Now, she will continue to sit on them for a while but there are some things you need to do now and in the future to keep her from wanting to do this again. Increase her dark/nightime to 12+ hrs a day, move and change around anything you can in the cage, even the location of the cage itself if possible. This will bring her out of her comfort zone which she needs during that time and it'll help her basically snap out of it. Also don't provide any nesting material like the dry grass...etc. It's ok to move the eggs. You should try and handle her when you can so she gets her mind off the eggs. She will start sitting on them less and less after two- three weeks. Once she has stopped almost completly remove one at a time. Make sure you give her plenty of attention. Also in the future make sure she had no access to dark, conmfy corners and no petting except the head. Never pet her back, tain, belly. Keep us posted to see how it goes. By the way, yes even the sweetest tiel will turn and try to protect her eggs. Don't worry about it-she'll get over it soon. Best of luck to you and her.

[DeBree420]

well i don't know... but it's been only a couple of days and she is now completely disinterested with the egg... she stopped sitting on it or attacking stuff that went near it and sat on the perch in her cage or just roamed freely around the house... as she did before the egg...
she is a healthy big bird and shows no sign of being eggbound.. or even uncomfortable... she is sitting on my knee right now...
i can't increase or decrease light as the my house IS Cinnamaroll's house..
so i guess i just got to wait it out...
i want to get a mate for Cinnamaroll... when is the right time to do this?

[Aly]

well i don't know... but it's been only a couple of days and she is now completely disinterested with the egg... she stopped sitting on it or attacking stuff that went near it and sat on the perch in her cage or just roamed freely around the house... as she did before the egg...
she is a healthy big bird and shows no sign of being eggbound.. or even uncomfortable... she is sitting on my knee right now...
i can't increase or decrease light as the my house IS Cinnamaroll's house..
so i guess i just got to wait it out...
i want to get a mate for Cinnamaroll... when is the right time to do this?

Be sure she is complety disintrested in it before you remove it or she will only try and replace it. What do you mean by your house is her house??? You really should move around all her things to avoid this in the future. How old is she?

[Laura]

I agree with Aly you really should try and make sure she has 12 hrs or more of darkness does she have a cage? I was just a little confused on my house is her house, all you would need to do is cover it earlier, you should really do all you can to prevent her from laying eggs as its really hard on them

[Bea]

You can increase her darkness by covering her cage earlier or leaving her covered later in the morning. Tiels breed in the spring/summer usually when the days stay lighter longer, so reducing light makes conditions less ideal and in turn will make her less likely to lay. :)

[Aly]

You posted today in another thread that she has laid an egg- so I am assuming it's another one. I forgot to mention above that she will not start sitting on them right away and that's why you probably thought it was over. I do have some questions for you if you don't mind.
How old is she?
Is she housed with the budgies?
Are you able to do any of the things mentioned to make sure she doesn't do this in the future and also are you providing her with veggies, calcium, etc?

[DeBree420]

i meant that Cinnamaroll roams freely around my house,every room is just as much hers as it is myne, she goes to bed in her cage when she wants, it is summer and light conditions are the same as a wild cockatiel has (i live in australia). She shows no signs of loosing any condition or health. She was completely disinterested in her egg untill the budgies tried to go in her cage (as they sometimes do, and she is fine with) then she took interest in the egg again, and has laid a second one.

[DeBree420]

the budgies have their own night cage(that they go to of their own free will same as Cinnamaroll), but share a 'bird play room' that has a curtain for a door that the budgies dont go through but Cinnamaroll walks under it, this leads to the rest of the house..
all the birds get vegies and fresh grass seeds everyday, and sometimes fruit. they all have access to (at all times)
;iodine and oyster block,iodine and calcium block, fine shell grit with multivitamin powder, fine shell grit with oyster, and various cuttlefish bones(i live close to the sea)

[Laura]

the only suggestion I can make is you are going to have to start putting her to bed earlier and but a cover over her cage to increase her dark hours they will continue to lay eggs usually every other day if they are interested in the egg or not,
Often, light is the stimulus which beckons birds to breed. When the amount of light (natural or unnatural) that reaches your cockatiel's cage reaches approximately 12 hours per day, it is instinctual for her to want to reproduce. You may have to fool your cockatiel into thinking it is perpetually winter. Keep the shade drawn and keep her cage covered on three sides during the day Allow her 11-12 hours of sleep at night with her cage fully covered.
If you don't take steps to nip it in the bud she could become a chronic egg layer

[Aly]

the only suggestion I can make is you are going to have to start putting her to bed earlier and but a cover over her cage to increase her dark hours they will continue to lay eggs usually every other day if they are interested in the egg or not,
Often, light is the stimulus which beckons birds to breed. When the amount of light (natural or unnatural) that reaches your cockatiel's cage reaches approximately 12 hours per day, it is instinctual for her to want to reproduce. You may have to fool your cockatiel into thinking it is perpetually winter. Keep the shade drawn and keep her cage covered on three sides during the day Allow her 11-12 hours of sleep at night with her cage fully covered.
If you don't take steps to nip it in the bud she could become a chronic egg layer

I agree. It's your responsibility regardless of how much she is free to go anywhere. Baby is the same- she does what she pleases WITH limitations. I don't need her laying clutch after clutch-it's dangerous and not healthy for a single female.

[DeBree420]

well somehow i dont think laying a single clutch of eggs can be bad for her
my friend has a cockatiel from the same breeder and she laid a single clutch (in the right time of year)when she reached maturity, then that was it, obviouisly im not an idiot, if egg laying was in any way making her life more difficult or reducing her health i would limit her freedom to change this, but as it is i see no problem with a totally healthy bird wanting to lay a clutch of eggs, she is after all intended to be a breeding bird, and it is their natural 'breeding time of year' here

[Aly]

well somehow i dont think laying a single clutch of eggs can be bad for her
my friend has a cockatiel from the same breeder and she laid a single clutch (in the right time of year)when she reached maturity, then that was it, obviouisly im not an idiot, if egg laying was in any way making her life more difficult or reducing her health i would limit her freedom to change this, but as it is i see no problem with a totally healthy bird wanting to lay a clutch of eggs, she is after all intended to be a breeding bird, and it is their natural 'breeding time of year' here

Yes, I understand that this is their breeding time and that most hens will try and lay a clutch when they reach that age. All I was trying to say is that not doing something about it now can lead to her becoming a chronic layer which is dangerous. It's your tiel so you have the last word but you asked for advice and I told you all I know. Please don't look at it as reducing her freedom- you are responsible for her and need to do what you can to make sure she is ok. Hope you aren't taking any of this the wrong way.

[DeBree420]

well i guess thats my point, i dont think that laying a clutch of eggs at this age, in breeding season classifies as 'developing into a chronic egg layer' i guess what i was trying to ask, is should i try and move her and egg into a breeding box, as i have not introduced a breeding box yet in the hope that she wouldnt do the 'teenage lay' and i thought introducing a breeding box might just encorage her. i have no problem reducing her freedom to uphold my responsibility as a avian parent, i just dont think it is a problem as of yet, and i dont believe in fixing things before theyre 'broke'~if of course it causes no issues
about her personality change...its next to nothing, i am proud to say i have one of the most well behaved cockatiels i have ever met, i kinda meant it as a joke when i said its like she is bipolar :P she never bites and lives as good a life as i can provide (which all my friends say is 'kinda spoilt')
dont worry i am not one of those 'crazy hippie' types who believes in 'freedom at all costs' and such, but i do believe being an animal caregiver means just that, providing all the care you would give to anyone you love, human or otherwise

[DeBree420]

the reason i dont think she is going to become a 'chronic egg layer' is because i believe the whole thing was brought on by my friend unexpectedly dropping round a few weeks back with her male tiel.... no mating happened, but it turned Cinnamaroll a little 'clucky'
and as i said before her 'cousin' (from the same breeder) laid a clutch when she was Cinnamarolls age and that was it, i guess i am just making sure i dont reduce her freedom for no reason, if she gets 'clucky' again next year with or without a male around, if she isnt a 'perfectly healthy specimen' of her species there is no way i will let her lay, but that would have been the case this year too

[Aly]

i guess what i was trying to ask, is should i try and move her and egg into a breeding box, as i have not introduced a breeding box yet

No you should not unless you are wanting to breed her. At this point you should be doing all you can to help her get over this period happy and healthy. I think you misunderstood what I was trying to explain. She is not "broken" nor is she a chronic egg layer at this point but mesurements have to be taken before anything not after. Just my thoughts.

[DeBree420]

No you should not unless you are wanting to breed her. At this point you should be doing all you can to help her get over this period happy and healthy. I think you misunderstood what I was trying to explain. She is not "broken" nor is she a chronic egg layer at this point but mesurements have to be taken before anything not after. Just my thoughts.

hehe yeah i wasnt really referring to HER as 'broken' i just ment in general, with the breeding box, i just wanted to make her more comfortable, and her being on the floor of the cage makes it kinda hard to do the daily clean. i actually understand perfectly what you are trying to say (i think) all i am saying is that measurements dont actually HAVE to be made before, as i cannot be sure it is a 'before' as shown by her 'cousin', and as she IS happy and healthy. i kinda feel switching her whole routine around at this point will probably only put unneeded stress on her~keep in mind this is only my personal opinion from having a close friendship with Cinnamaroll.

thanks by the way for confirming my thought about the breeding box

[Aly]

hehe yeah i wasnt really referring to HER as 'broken' i just ment in general, with the breeding box, i just wanted to make her more comfortable, and her being on the floor of the cage makes it kinda hard to do the daily clean. i actually understand perfectly what you are trying to say (i think) all i am saying is that measurements dont actually HAVE to be made before, as i cannot be sure it is a 'before' as shown by her 'cousin', and as she IS happy and healthy. i kinda feel switching her whole routine around at this point will probably only put unneeded stress on her~keep in mind this is only my personal opinion from having a close friendship with Cinnamaroll.

thanks by the way for confirming my thought about the breeding box

I know what you mean by being really close to her and feeling bad about changing her routine, what she will think, etc. I also understand you want her to be comfortable. My baby, Baby laid her 1st egg 12/31/07 at midnights and I had tears in my eyes. I love that little bird SO much and we have such a unique bond it's unexplainable. It's hard to change their routine when you are really close to them- I know. What you can do to make it a bit more comfortable is place a small towel under her eggs so she is comfortable while sitting on them. After she is finished laying she will spend most of her day sitting on them and not paying any mind to you. She'll be back to her normal self soon enought. Also, just my opionion but I don't think her seeing a male tiel alone would cause her to become broody-it's a combination of it being the right conditions, longer days, comfort, security, etc are all things that they need to want to breed. Don't think of increasing her daytime as stressfull, it'll help her in the long run. For now- just be there for her as you are now. :)

[DeBree420]

i am only trying to provide the best for my animals
i have actually taken in all the things you have said, just because i dont agree with you on one part of this 'hobby/love/business' dosent mean i dont respect your opinion and experience i have found its the same with alot of things "there are a million ways to do something and few are wrong" but if i thought for a second that Cinnamaroll, or any of my babies were in danger there wouldnt be much that could make me stop doing anything in my power to make them happy and healthy again
but i do have to be sure before i can be comfortable changing something that also could have a disadvantage to them (not saying it definitely would)if there might not be a problem yet

the male tiel coming over is i think what tipped it, not the entire cause
i cant be sure but she wasnt showing any signs before that visit, so i think i might have got away with no eggs otherwise

[Aly]

the male tiel coming over is i think what tipped it, not the entire cause
i cant be sure but she wasnt showing any signs before that visit, so i think i might have got away with no eggs otherwise

atleast Cinnamonroll laid them for a tiel- Baby laid hers for my ex boyfriend..:rolleyes:

[DeBree420]

hehe they do seem to like the 'boys' sometimes dont they

[DeBree420]

What you can do to make it a bit more comfortable is place a small towel under her eggs so she is comfortable while sitting on them.

OMG just thinking about that :rolleyes:... got the idea that if i got a bunch of cheap towels and cut/sew them to the size of all the bed cages and play floors, all i would have to do is fold them up- no seed on the floor- and shake and wash! think you may have just changed my cleaning routine :p
great idea thanks, ill put a towel in there tonight

[DeBree420]

well it has been 2 weeks and 2/3 days since Cinnamaroll laid her first egg...
and she laid number 5 last night....
have been giving her a lot more mealworms lately, she has been picking them out of other things, i got her 2 fruit flavoured mineral blocks the cages and play areas are littered with cuttlebones and such, also i had a look at the new egg, and it has a nice thick healthy shell, so she is going good on that front... but i am kinda worried as she has gone off her greens during this period... and has lost a lot of weight...
is this normal?..
she used to love celery, beans and sunflower sprouts, i have tried other things like corn, alfalfa sprouts, parsley, capsicum(red peppers), dark lettuce, baby beet greens and i have my flatmate shopping for me right now to get carrot, egg and broccoli...
none of which she has showed all that much interest in..so far...
when i dipped some of the greens (straight after washing) in egg and biscuit mix, she had a bit of a go at it... but not much, she is even ignoring millet sprays...
she seems to be picking out the sunflower seeds from her food, then going to the budgie cage and eating their seed... which is strange cos Cinns seed IS just the budgie mix (which i mix myself, it has some canary mix in it too) plus a bunch of sunflower, a small amount of safflower and some coarse ground cornmeal...
i have no idea why she is doing this...
i went to a pet shop and got a bunch of organic 'nutty' treat sticks, but they were full of weevils :( ... so i will have to take them back... i have banana, cheries, mango and apples.. for a birdie fruit salad?
she seems to have taken a liking to the charcoal and iodine bells, as her first preference of mineral treat, so other than the cuttlebone it is the only one i have put in her bedtime cage...
a friend of mine is giving me one of her sunflowers, that have gone to seed, from her organic garden, and i am searching for Wattle(Australian accasia) trees, with seed... as this is one of the main things tiels eat in the wild... but i cant seem to find any that i am not 'suss' on, chemicals or disease from wild birds or something... you can buy wattle seed over here in Australia from health food stores, people use it to make cake...sorta tastes like chocolate! :rolleyes: - i am looking into it more...
making a curtain for the last window in the bird room...
so it will be bedtime a lot sooner/ awake time a lot later...not that it would matter at the moment she is sitting on her eggs at dusk and isnt coming into the rest of the house much anyway...
i am sure it is fairly normal for a hen to loose weight when sitting and laying, but i hate seeing my baby not at peak condition

[Aly]

Oh I know what you mean- it'll only be a little while longer and she'll get tired of them and be back to loving you all the time. It was really hard for me to see Baby like that but I learned alot from it and now I know what to expect her to be like when she has my grandkids..lol. They do lose some weight during this process and I also noticed Baby's food preference changed during that time. I think the reason Cinn is going for the sunflower seeds is because they are high in fat and she feels the need for them. Ussually high fat/high protein diets is what makes them think it's ideal to breed. You can also give her a boiled egg chopped up with the shell but just make sure you don't leave it out too long or it'll spoil. All the stuff you're offering her is great so I'm glad to hear she's doing good. You're a good mommy. I gotta say though I find it odd that she layed the fifth egg so long ago. My guess would be that she's trying for another clutch. Go ahead and increase her sleep and change around some of her things to try and discourage her. She needs to save that energy for when she gets her boyfriend. Making that curtain is a great idea that way you can ease her into more nighttime to prevent her wanting a third clutch. If you start doing this things now, she'll start paying less and less attention to them in about two-three weeks and at that time you can start removing one at a time. It's a good idea to change around her cage too (perches, toys, location of eggs). I moved Baby's things around a couple of times and it also happen that I changed her cage at that time too. She had her first egg jan 1st and stoped sitting on the by the 20th-she had 4 and by jan 25ths all were removed and she was back to normal. I kept one of her eggs though. Her first one. =) Are her poops still big? You can check and that way you'll know another egg is on the way. Keep posting her updates.

[DeBree420]

Oh I know what you mean- it'll only be a little while longer and she'll get tired of them and be back to loving you all the time.
I think the reason Cinn is going for the sunflower seeds is because they are high in fat and she feels the need for them.
are her poops still big? You can check and that way you'll know another egg is on the way. Keep posting her updates.

i hope it is soon...
the sunflower seeds and mealworms are just that kind of high fat/protien diet... though she has always loved sunflower seeds, she has never 'craved' mealworms like this, and she has never picked out her sunflower seeds and completely ignored the rest of her seed, she at least used to pick through it...
and yes *sigh* she has had large droppings still...
it is strange that she seems to have started laying again, because she is still sitting on her other eggs...?

[Aly]

i hope it is soon...
the sunflower seeds and mealworms are just that kind of high fat/protien diet... though she has always loved sunflower seeds, she has never 'craved' mealworms like this, and she has never picked out her sunflower seeds and completely ignored the rest of her seed, she at least used to pick through it...
and yes *sigh* she has had large droppings still...
it is strange that she seems to have started laying again, because she is still sitting on her other eggs...?

That means she has more on the way. I would say because of the time difference this is her 2nd clutch. It's not strange that she's still sitting on the first one- she will keep trying to. Make those changes and wait until she's finished this one to remove any. If you make the adjustments now then she'll "snap out of it" just in time and won't go into a third clutch. She'll start sitting on them less and less. Before that Baby started moving one egg away from the clutch to the other corner. That was her first egg-I guess she realized it wasn't hatching. To me it's a big sad watch them go through all that when in the end what they wanted doesn't come of it. I did my best with Baby so far in keeping her from laying anymore after that.

[DeBree420]

i think i might make a 'permanent' cover for her night time cage, and as soon as she has stopped sitting completely...i will remove all her stuff (excluding her perches and waterbowl) and close it up during the day as soon as she is out for the morning...

[DeBree420]

i am really quite worried about the food thing though....
i tried steamed broccoli, and she looked at it in disdain...
i really dont like the idea of giving her access to lots of her 2 favorites (sunflower seeds and mealworms and to a lesser degree, 'budgie mix') because of the thought that she would eat only that and nothing else if she could....
but she is doing this anyway and loosing weight,she already gets lots of sunflower seeds, but should i increase the mealworm ration? i have 3 dried sunflowers with the seeds still in, from my friends organic garden, so i have given her 1.... not to say she will even decide the flower is food...
she has lots of sunflower seeds in her 'tiel mix' as well
i am going to get a small amount of 'parrot mix' for a separate bowl to see if Cinn picks through it at least..
and i am trying to find pellets, but have not seen any so far, the closest i see to pellets are those stupid 'Kaytee nutra puffs' bright bright red horrible unhealthy looking things.. and other brands of the same looking stuff... with more colours (translation,other food dyes included) :mad:
but then again, i cant expect much from petshops who have 'budgie breeding boxes' with no round groove for the eggs, or tiel boxes too deep with no way up to the door from inside..:confused:

[Aly]

I hate anything Kaytee so I would stay away from that. Mine get some Zupreem pellets once in a while but not daily. I think of pellets as processed foods and even though they claim to contain all these nutriets I don't consider them a natural part of their diet. To me, veggies, seed and fruit is more important. I wouldn't give her access to so many sunflowerseeds or too many meal worms. Keep offering her regular veggies and her seed. She won't starve herself and if not given access to other thing she will eat them. Also, during the time that she's laying give her some boiled egg with shell. You can try the big parrot mix and see if she'll like it but I wouldn't change her regular food too drasticaly right now. IF you have a scale are you able to weigh her for me?

[DeBree420]

i would never change her regular food (unless they were bad for her) i just add things...

[Aly]

oh ok :);) Are you able to weigh her?

[Laura]

I agree with Aly if you can you should try and weigh her and keep an eye on her weight loss to make sure its still in the normal range.

[DeBree420]

i dont have any kind of scales... not even bathroom ones :p
i have wanted to get some really accurate kitchen type scales, so i guess now it just means 'scales' are higher on my priority list now... *sigh*
i am less worried today, as she seemed to be simply interested in 'stealing' from the budgies... so i put a heap more veg inside the budgie bedtime cage (treats usually go on top), and Cinn came in and 'stole' some celery ! yay ! at least i know she has had SOME greens!
i finally found 'breeder pellets' really healthy looking brown pellets, looks kinda like bran bits... contains no artificial colours or flavours, or anything 'suss' looking, i put it in a separate dish in her cage (but maybe i should have put it in the budgie cage...?)
she has been happily chewing on all different mineral blocks!

on more exciting news... i caught my budgies King and Queen mating!!!
hooray... they have been in a separate breeding cage with a box for about a week now... and Queen had evicted most of the bedding i put in the box (i put unscented pine shavings in my boxes cos they seem to enjoy and think they 'made' their nest more, when theres lots of stuff to kick out :p )
so hopefully i will have eggies soon....