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Your Cockatiels Health Ask questions about your cockatiels health here.

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  #11  
Old 04-06-2017, 01:33 PM
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If the babies are doing better then you may not need additional medication. Home remedies might not always be enough for advanced cases but there are times when they can work.

You mentioned earlier that you were adding "'Mother"'apple cider vinegar to the parents' water. Adding vinegar every single day is probably not desirable, but adding an appropriate amount once or twice a week might be helpful in preventing crop infections. Any kind of vinegar is expected to have the same results though, and there are other substances (like lemon juice and chili pepper) that would probably work just as well. Apple cider vinegar is vastly overhyped, and there's not a significant difference between it and ordinary distilled white vinegar. I have an article on claims versus reality at http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.co...ition-acv.html
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  #12  
Old 04-06-2017, 02:29 PM
EllenD EllenD is offline
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I reacted the way that I did because #1 the OP admitted he had no idea what he was doing and had never attempted to do a crop flushing before, and had no instruction. Sorry but if that's the case he shouldn't be attempting to do it. #2 because he said he spent 30 minutes manually "squeezing" a baby bird's crop, which he admitted "stressed him out", I bet it did. That was the part that horrified me. I'm sorry but I'm sticking to my guns on this one, there are things that you just shouldn't attempt if you have no idea what you're doing, or the correct equipment/supplies to do it.

Obviously the correct treatment for a yeast infection is a prescription medication, as I clearly stated to the OP, he needs to treat the yeast infection because it is the cause of the slow crop, and trying to clean all of the solids out of the crop without treating the source of the infection is pointless. That being said, the OP had already started off by saying he lived in rural Mexico with no access to proper medical care, a proper vet, or prescriptions. He had already gone to a general vet and even though they knew the babies had yeast infections in their crops they did not prescribe an antifungal. Why? I have absolutely no idea, you would think that would be the first thing they would do, but they didn't. So I thought the best thing to do was to try to treat the infections naturally with apple cider vinegar, Alka Seltzer, etc., which is why I linked the article I did, it also had other links to many different "home remedies" to try. And while I hate advising "home remedies" I was under the impression that prescriptions were not available. If I had thought that the OP could go and pick up some Nystatin, or better yet some oral Diflucan I would have advised him to do so, but I didn't think his babies had much time to mess around, and thought it best to get them started with the natural treatments that I have had success with in the past. I still think this.

I'm well aware of the other articles attached describing "massaging the crop", I have read these slides many times and have advised people to use them. However, first of all if the OP had actually read the advice of the author, who is an authority on avian health, she advises right from the start to not attempt anything you aren't comfortable with, especially on a baby. Plus he did not have properly sized crop tubes. So was it a good idea for him to repetitively insert both the wrong size and wrong type of tubes down into baby bird crops? No, absolutely not. And as he stated in his original post it wasn't working. I stand by instructing him to stop attempting to do constant crop flushes over and over again on young, small baby birds without proper crop tubes and the proper solutions. I also stand by telling him to treat the infection first because that is what is causing the slow crops or crop stasis to begin with. And as far as "manually squeezing" a baby's crop for 30 minutes straight, yes, I told him to please just stop. Tell me I'm wrong for doing that...he himself stated the baby was stressed. Once again, I'm well educated in avian medicine/animal medicine in general, I have a master's degree in animal health science and I bred birds for over 20 years. I do most of my own veterinary testing, treatments, and vaccines myself at home for my dogs, birds, and bearded dragons, under outside guidance of my certified avian vet and my general vet. I keep a lot of prescription medications and supplements on hand, as well as vaccinations for my dogs. I have the ability to do culture and sensitivities with antibiotic discs, I do basic microscopy like fecal smears, and I plate swabs from crop flushes. So obviously if I thought that the OP had Nystatin laying around I would have mentioned that.

I realize that the OP was trying to do whatever he could to save his baby birds, and I do apologize for freaking out the way I did. But I stand behind the advice I gave him 100%, as he was not familiar with what he was trying to do at all and he did not have the proper supplies at home to do crop flushes. I've seen people come to forums in a huge panic because their baby birds stopped eating, their crops stopped emptying, so they found those exact instructions for doing crop flushes, but unfortunately they had no experience with doing them at all, they ignored the instructions about using the appropriate sized crop tubes, so they went and bought the closest thing they could find, and now part of whatever they used as a crop tube was lost in one of their baby's crops. Iced seen that post on forums several times. I've also seen the result of a ruptured crop (this was an adult Quaker parrot, not a baby) that occurred because the person was frantically trying to massage the crop to elicit natural contractions and they massaged the crop way too hard. That adult Quaker died, and I can link the forum thread to it so you can maybe better understand why I freaked out after the OP said he had been doing this to a baby's crop for 30 minutes straight.

I am very passionate about the welfare of animals, especially birds and reptiles, and yes I occasionally get upset. For that I am sorry, I should have taken a deep breath and counted to ten before replying. But I stand 100% behind the advice I gave the OP, and I especially stand behind telling him to stop doing crop flushes without the proper equipment or more importantly without any idea what he was doing. The last thing in the world I want would be for the OP to kill one of his baby birds, like the one whose crop he squeezed for 30 minutes, and to feel responsible for that. I wouldn't wish that upon my worst enemy because it's an awful feeling that you never fully get over. I grew up in a bird breeding family on my mom's side, both my grandmother and my mom bred English and American budgies, cockatiels, parrotlets, etc. And my mom bred and hand-raised my very first pet, an American budgie,, and gave him to me as a baby when I was 6 years old. I "helped" my mom hand-feed my budgie and his siblings from 2 weeks old, and I actually seriously started training with my mom at the age of 13, and started breeding English budgies on my own at 16. My mom gave me 2 of her proven pairs and bought me another pair, and all 3 of my pairs had successful clutches the first season I had them. I pulled the chicks at 3 weeks and hand-raised them, everything went great. The second round of 3 clutches everything was going great as well, I was making a little money, I loved it and wanted to go to college for veterinary medicine. Then while hand-feeding a 4 week old baby budgie I aspirated him and he died in my hands within 30 seconds of doing it. It was the only time I ever had anything like that happen in 20 years of breeding birds. I'm now 37 years old and I still think about killing that parakeet chick every time I pick up a pipette to feed a baby. So that's what I didn't want the OP to have to deal with if God forbid he killed one of his chicks by attempting what he was.

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  #13  
Old 04-06-2017, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
the author, who is an authority on avian health
Actually Susanne doesn't have any medical/veterinary training, or a strong understanding of biology or any other kind of science. She's a very experienced cockatiel breeder who has put an exceptional amount of time and effort into helping others and passing along the benefits of her experience. Her advice on dealing with crop problems in babies and breeding issues in general is the most detailed and extensive on the internet, and is frequently the most useful information you're going to find anywhere. Some of her beliefs on sexing and split signs are controversial. Some of her recommendations for home remedies are iffy too (like homeopathy and colloidal silver). But a lot of it seems to be pretty sound, and I haven't heard much complaint about her "taking care of babies" articles.

But she doesn't have the kind of credentials that would qualify her as an authority on avian health. She's just one of the many knowledgeable and dedicated amateurs providing free advice on the internet. Enigma has a PhD in human medicine, and I would consider her to be a more authoritative source when it comes to medications and at least some medical procedures. But I wouldn't call her an actual authority on avian health either, since that's not where her training is.
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  #14  
Old 04-06-2017, 03:35 PM
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EllenD,thanks, I am sure you meant well and I do feel the pain you felt for poor baby chicks. I am the same way-cant stand abuse to animals either. I do not live in rural Mexico- I live close to San Diego border and famous TJ. However once you cross from US you can forget about proper "'exotic pets"care and do feel yourself completely helpless since you know more about cockatiels then your vet. For example when I enter a petshop here, I often see cockatiels with dirty water and sunflower seeds only -to eat,when I see this - I never stay quiet either and do ask the shop owners how would they like to eat mayonnaise every day for breakfast,dinner and supper. And always do feel the strong urge to buy them all and rescue them from there.BDW, I am not "'He"' I am a woman, 32 y.o. and interestly I have a 6 y.o. daughter whom I recently gave her personal pet-white-marginated pearl cockatiel Goldie, we have raised her together As for babies - I no longer do crop flushes,they are doing better. Ofcourse -it is risky to attempt crop flush- without experience or someone to show you,however I do use my head and wouldnt squeeze baby to death I did everything slowly,carefully and according to instructions. But when you see bloated crop full of sour food-the choice is this-you leave it like that-the baby will die,you attempt to flush and do something wrong-the baby will die,but its like "'you cant kill a dead baby'' so I did try to help the best I could,once again we all should use common sense and if someone recommends you to clip wings for example it doest mean to grab a pair of scissors and chop the wings off, I did my research,watched videos on youtube and got best equipment I could,there is absolutely no way the feeding tube may get lost (it is very well attached to syringe ) Anyway,whatever I did did seem to help, I am watching them closely now, I think the key here is early detection and prevention. Thank you for your support and time and best off all-to you

Last edited by ninfatiel; 04-06-2017 at 03:57 PM..
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  #15  
Old 04-06-2017, 09:26 PM
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Don't worry ninfatiel, to me at least it was clear from the start that you were doing all that you could to educate yourself, make the right choice, and do the best job that anyone could possibly do in such a difficult situation.

I'm fortunate to live in a place where competent bird vets are available, but if I was in your position I would have done the same thing you did - and I would have been terrified! There are obviously risks in trying to do a procedure like this without training or experience, but there were worse risks in not trying to do it. When life forces us into difficult situations we have to make difficult choices.
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  #16  
Old 04-08-2017, 12:23 AM
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Thank you,Tielfan you've been a lot of help
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