# It's been a long time between questions and Chicks



## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

Hi! I've been a way for some months and decided to let my pair breed again. They produced 3 eggs and ONE hatched. ( the other 2 seem to be too old to hatch)

I deliberately didn't even number the eggs nor candle them or lift them in any way. I had suspicion that my moving the eggs may have either ruined the natural rotation of the parents or scared the parents off the eggs too much . So this time I just waited .

Well as i said only one hatched and from the beginning it looked like it was going to have pink eyes.( even with closed lids the eye sockets where light colored) 

As it turns out one eye is opening and is definetly PINK ( about 9-10 days old) However the tiny pin feather flights look like they are darker than YELLOW OR White .

Do Tiels develop pink eyes with Pied like wings? Or is it just too early and the coloring will fade and this is only a recessive characteristic?

Remember this pair has produced some Light Pied and One Lutino ( stargazer) that died) so what are the odds for this little single?

BUDDYD

BTW it seems that both Parents are feeding this fat little babe but I am suplying a lot of white bread and Fresh Greens ( Baby Spinach, Frisee, and Spring greens ) to suppliment the seed I give the parents But the parents ( especially dad) gobble up those suppliments along witha lot of fresh water as soon as I add them about 3 times a day. Any suggestions as to what the chick needs mom and dad to eat to help it grow?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Can you post any pix's of the chick?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Pink eyes with darker feathers...I know cinnamons will have pinkish eyes when first hatched.


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*Well now that the feathers have grown some*

When I first looked one eye was cracked open and the flights had just started to grow. Now botheyes are wide open and the primary flights while still pin feathers they are now a bit over 1/2 inch long. 

The confusion was one of the pins had broke and it was a blood fether ( tiny but bleed) and the coloration seemed dark. Now the Flights all look WHITE.

BTW the eyes are very PINK.

The crest is now stuble but not long enough to see their true color. The very tiny Tail pins broke also , which added to the color questions. 

We are hopeing for a WHITE chick but that is probably not going to happen But maybe light Lution with some white Highlights.

I chnaged the bedding and discarde the other eggs today since some of the baby poop is getting all over everything. I amnot sure if that isn't what I saw instaed of Blood since it was so small. 

I will get a picture as soon as I can . 

I feed it a couple of times but the crop is almost always full so I am reluctant. In fat the greens that the Mom and dad devour may be what is makeing the poop so dark instead of the typical yellowish droppings. 

But for now at about 13 days the chick seems to be doing fine .

BUDDY


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Buddy...it sounds like you have another lutino. The flight pinfeathers will look darker because they were filled with blood. As they grow out and the blood recedes, if a lutino they could be an off white to a yellow.


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*It's been a long time since I took PIX*

Haven't took any pictures of anything in a long time . But getting clear images of uncooperative newly hatched Tiel chicks isn't at all easy. But here are two.

The chick wanted to fold it's flights under it's wing pits so I had to hold the pin feathers out for easier viewing . However the Pink EYES aren't my poor camera work they are very PINK.

I change the bedding but the prefer ed diet of greens from the parents soiled the bedding and the box and you may notice some dark specks on the chicks beak.

The crop looks like it is speckled since it gets a strong mixture of seed, Bread and greens and even a couple pf feeding pf Formula. But I remember reading not to feed them if the crop is full and I have only seen it's crop low once or twice and that was after all night .

So how does it look for less than 2 weeks out the shell? More over any guess at what Mutation it will be? And if you can do that does that say what gender it probaly will be.

Marie has already started calling it ANNY because it was hatched on the day of our daughter's wedding anniversary. But I said all our other chicks have been Males so ANNY doesn't fit too well. LOL


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

It is defintely a lutino. I appears that they have also plucked quite a few pinfeathers out on it too...but they will grow back in.

I can't remember what mutation your hen was, but if she *is not* a lutino, then the chick is a female. If she is a lutino the chick is either sex.


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*I guess I need to remove the chick and hand feed it.*

I saw no signs of distress on the chick so I didn't think it was beingPlucked again. But i guess I will need to hand feed it away from the parents? 

the Mother is a pearl cinnamon. nad Dad is Pied that has lost his spotting . I guess that means female.

Is there nothing that stops the plucking? or more improtantly what causes it?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Look again. Most of the flight feathers a plucked except for the few on the end of the wing. The back and shoulders are plucked. The tail is gone, and the feathers on the side of the face. This link (album at the bottom of the page) shows how much pinfeathers should be on a baby that age: http://justcockatiels.weebly.com/watch-me-grow.html

Since the baby is not bit or bloody the parent (s) may just be plucking out of habit or bordom in the nest. Remember how UNO was also plucked?

From the genetics your little one is an ANNY


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*SRTiels has been very helpful but I still have questions*

The Chick ( Anny ) seems to be doing fine now since I took the nest box down off the cage with the parents and am hand feeding it 10cc 4X daily .
It is now pretty much covered in pin feathers all over it's body and some of the flights are now over and inch long.

However even as Susanne has convinced me and Marie the chick is probably a Female ( parentage) I still am guessing at the final plummage since as I said it is covered mostly in longish PIN feathers but no real fl etchings other than the Primary Flights. However it does definetly have totally Pink eyes and the pins look to be predominately WHITE but the crest is at this time Yellow and some of the first Pin colorings on the wing shoulders was yellow but seems to be becomeing white as time goes on.

Also the area aroun the eye sockets ( fleshy ) seems to be grayish even though there are no pins in that area. This could be some degree of flesh transparency of the eye lids.

Could she be a very light Pied and still have Pink eyes? i thought only Lutinos had pink eyes and even then only the white ones. I thought the Yellow factor ones had dark eyes. I have seen so em more mature birds pictured here that show what I think Anny could devlop into . But we have always wanted a White Teil so I guess we are sort of seeing what we hope for. What do you more experienced breeders think.

BUDDYD
PS sorry no further Pics at this time maybe by the end of the week . She should beabout 4 weeks old then, and bit more dressed for the occasion.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

As srtiels said before, she's definitely a lutino. Cinnamon's will have pinkish eyes at first but they get darker as they age only lutinos keep the pink eyes. The yellow crest you are seeing and the mostly white feathers are lutino traits. Most lutinos that aren't lutino pied or lutino pearl have a yellow face and a white body. To get an all white cockatiel, both parents would have to be split to or visually whitefaced, then you would get whitefaced lutino babies. Plus, because mom isn't visually a lutino, this is most definitely a girl as hens can only be visually lutino because its a sex-linked mutation, which means girls get it from dad only, boys get it from both parents. Can't wait to see pictures of her!


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*OK here Anny is*

I took some Pictures of ANNY today at her 11am feeding ( before and after.The in box is first the next to the box is after feeding)

She hasn't fletched out as much as I had hoped but there is a fairly big difference IMHO. She is much bigger now and even tries to climb out of the nest box where I am keeping her away from her mom and dad. Some times I hang the Box on the side of the cage but with the bars between the Parents and the box. Anny hasn't been feed by them or next to them in about 2 weeks and the pin feathers you see now have devloped since she was pulled as opposed to the previous 2 pictures I posted here.

I feed her about 10 cc of Zupreem formula 4X a day ( 7-8am, 12-1 pm,5-6pm,10-11pm)and she is starving every time . Her crop is completely empty at each feeding . I had hoped the pin feathers would open more by now but I am sure they will soon. She spreads her wings like in the pictures when ever I open the box lid and has climbed to the box opening but hasn't fledged to the outside yet.

The biggest problem I have when feeding her is she pumps non stop when feeding and that makes it difficult to keep a steady supply of formula going in her beak and not all over her and my hand. It also means I have to clean her up after each feeding as well as my fingers.

So other than not being as well plummed as a 4 week old should be, how does she look? Also with my poor Photography can the feather coloring be seen ( I am seeing some Yellow on her head and shoulders right now) and her very Pink eyes?

BUDDYD


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Aw bless her, she's gorgeous! I'd say she's going to be really pretty once she feathers out!


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

I agree so cute


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*I have a couple of new concerns as ANNY grows*

Generally speaking ANNY ids doing OK. But I May just be watching her a bit more closely then I have others or maybe not close enough?

I have noted with some strong concern that if I attempt to feed Anny early in the morning ( earlier than after 7am - like late 6ish or very early 7 ish) she seems lethargic and even this morning she made me frightened that she was weakened trembling.

However on the two occasions when I felt this way shortly after feeding her ( she did take a bit less than normal) she was her chipper self again later. Could it be that sh hadn't fill awoken yet? 

But this morning I noticed what to me seemed like a dried blood spot just over her left eye socket. At first I thought it might be dirt but it sure looks like dried blood.

My best guess is that she tries to fledge but has always only tried to get out the box previously when I lifted the lid and she stretched her straggly wings as if to fly. ( check the Pictures) 

However when she tries to exit the box through the front opening hole she does climb on to the hols with her feet but still stretches her wings which are twice to three times as wide as the hole . So i suspect that she probably banged her head on the hole edges and with all the chewing Daddy did it can have some rough spots for unfeatherd heads.

At any rate it seems to be completely scabbed over and tiny and no fresh blood is visible ( if it is blood) But I sure wish she could learn to climb out with her wings closed.

BUDDY


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## Debbie05 (Feb 9, 2010)

Maybe she is cold so this is what I do when I pull my babies. I use a tupperware container with shavings and a layer of paper towels on top of the shavings. I change the paper towel at every feeding. I place the container on a heating pad that is wraped in a towel. Then put a thermometer in the container to make sure it the right temp for the babies. I cover the contaner with a towel leaving 1 corner uncovered for air. Then as they get bigger I move to a small cage. When they are fully feathered I move to a bigger cage.
They really do bob up and down when they are being fed. I try to hold them gentle so they don't fly and bob to much. I found this link that help me a lot with temp they should be kept at and how much to feed. Hope it helps you as much as it did me. 

http://www.cockatiel.org/articles/handfeeding.html


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*How are WE doing ? Anny and ME*

I am going to post some Pictures of ANNY taken on Valentines day. Anny is just 2-3 days short of being 6 weeks old. She had a start all over getting dressed if you remember the previous pictures and I am still hand feeding her 10 cc 4X a day and she still acts like she is starving.

Her feathers have come a good bit further since her last Pictures but I weighed her today and she weighs in at right about 70 grams.

Let me know what you think. BTW the blood spot is gone it was a broken pin feather and she does rise slowly so when I feed her early she is a bit subdued but once she is out she streches her wings and screams continually and charges my hand when I out it in to get her. I am trying to get her to sit on perches a bit at a time but she doesn't want to let go of my hand. LOL In fact she chews on it as soon as she can. I have noticed some missing seeds on a piece of MILLET I put with er so I suspect she maybe pecking to find out what that stuff is.

If you can see in the pictures she is predominately White with Pink eyes but has a fair amount of yellow . ( Crest ,shouldres and tail)

BUDDYD


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I cropped and enlarged one of your pix. What is going on with the face and beak? Is that a lump of formula on the side of the face? If so you can wet it with a paper towel to soften and try to gradually remove it. it looks like the upper beak is starting to scissor to the birds right. Changing how you hold the head might help with it not growing out wrong. Plus working with the beak before a feeding to align the upper beak into the notch of the lower beak will excersise the muscles so that the beak aligns better.

She has grown quite a bit since your last pix's. 10cc is too much per feeding. The Max for her weight should be 7cc per feeding.


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*Thanks I missed that*

Susanne thanks once agin for all your help and insight. However I actually do presently keep a damp paper towel handy during all feedings to wipe as I go. My big clumsy hands scare the heck out of me holding a chicks head as your previously suggested tips and Photos have shown others . So her head bobs and pumps as she feeds like chicks do when parents are feeding them . In fact she makes the very same chirping sounds also. And that can get pretty messy. But I was so concerned with the spillage on the left side I missed the right side. But I went and looked after you pointed it out and with a some minor rubbing of a damp towel the clump feel right off since most of it was over her beak and just attached to the whiskery feathers near there.

I have feed her the 10 cc 4X because she acts as though she is starving always. And to me she looked scrawny. In fact that is why I weighed her. But I guess when she finally gets her head and chest covered her neck won't look so skinny. It looks even worse when she thinks she is being feed and she stretches her neck and wings as far as they can go to reach for my hand.

I will try to cut it down from here on out and maybe soon try to go to 3 times a day. But she hasn't fledged yet since she can't try to go out the box without stretching her wings wide open. BTW I have started adding a pinch of Brewers yeast and Garlic powder to some of her feedings and IMHO her energy levels are noticble higher. ( Bcomplex?)

I took a close look at her BEAK position and asked my wife Marie to give an Opinion also it seems that their is no crossing / scissoring that we can see but her lower mandible is a bit larger than I am used to and the sides of the btm are more visible.

But then too as i said she screeches continually in begging fashion and was doing so when I took that Photo so some beak movement might have contributed to distorting the clear image along with my poor photograpy. LOL

How is that weight for 5 1/2 weeks old? Also is her feathering coming along OK?

I really wish she'd be comfortable on perches instead of clinging to my hand when ever she is near it . She is almost like static cling.

So other than the poor avian hygene caused by failing eye sight of her keeper how are we doing?And were the Pixs claer enough to see her coloring? Do you thin it will stay the same or how do you think it will change?


PS if this dupicates I apologize but I made a earlier post and when I looked back there was none to be found. Maybe My eyesight isn't the only thing failing this 64 year old >LOL


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

LOL...tell me about failing eyesight...I'm 60 and my eyes are not that good. I wind up using the zoom to enlarge any pix's to see details. 

Anny looks like she has a yellow tail. I couldn't see her back very well...does she have any yellow edging to any of her back feathers? If so, then she may be a lutino pearl.

The 70 grams is not bad for her age. She'll probably gain some more as she starts to eat on her own and wean. Sprinkle some seed in her container to encourage her to start foraging and picking at it, and also some millet clipped near where she likes to sleep.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Srtiels, from what I could see she does have some yellow edging on her feathers so I think she may be a lutino pearl! She's very cute!


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*She may be too hand feed*

She attacks my hand when ever I put it near here. She either climbs up my hands with wings extended or she will start pecking at my fingers. or both. She has grown to associate my hand with FOOD. 

I have placed a clipping of millet with here and lately the seeds are missing more and more I haven't seen her eat it but unless she is walking all over it and breaking them off I have to assume she is getting some of it. I try to hold the millet in my fingers when she is attacking causeing her to peck at it so maybe she is learning. i also place some millet near her entrance and near the parents cage wall next to it so she could see them eating it.

BTW her wing feathers are almost all white but there is a lot of yellow tipping between her shoulders also her tail is completely pale yellow . the Crest pins are fairly solid yellow. So does that sound like Lutino pearl? I was told her mom was Cinnamon Pearl.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

You can tell if she is eating the millet...especially at night by feeling the base of her crop before you feed her. You would be able to feel the seeds when you hold the crop skin between your fingers. When you do feel food/seeds in her crop, then reduce the amount of formula fed for that feeding.

It will be interesting to see what she is when she is fully feathered. Didn't you get some pieds at one time in past clutches? She could also be a lutino pearl or lutino poed.


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*Does this qualify as fledgling??*

Susanne and others i have been waiting on ANNY to show some changes like fledgling to change where i housed her and how often i feed her. I kept watching for her to climb out of her nesting box , but as i said that isn't likely to happen for a long time. You see she keeps trying to make out that tiny hole with her wings fully extended.LOL

She devloped this habit when ever I would open the top lid to reach for her and she would stretch not only her wings but her neck as well trying to come out the top of the nest box. 

Well at first she learned to climb up the hole and hook on the top with her beak until she finally climbed to the top edge.

Then she fluttered to the counter top from there. next she fluttered to the floor wheer i had to pick her up.

But even as she still doesn't come out the nest hole I placed her in a single cage and covered it with a cloth and she seemed to be fine // This cage has a large swing door that opens almost 2/3 of the front of the cage. and yesterday when I opend it she flew straight into my hands. So even if she can't figure our how to use the nest entrance wouldn't you say she is FLEDGING? I mean even if she can't or doesn't want to go back into the cage. LOL

BUDDY


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Yes she's fledging. She's flying which is the biggest part of it. Seems she just had a problem figuring out how to get OUT and now that she is out its time to test those wings lol.


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