# Blood Test Results-Possible Liver Ailment



## DonnaMae (Jan 27, 2013)

Hi,
I am a new member and new caretaker and just introduced myself. I may some some serious health issues going on and wanted some feedback.

My new little guy is Sandy and we have really come to love him.

I took him to an avian vet last week . I had been meaning to do it for awhile but had an emergency becasue we had the cage door open and we were talking to him and he just flew out. FIrst time he had the opportunity to fly here. Of course he landed on the radiator and I was petrified that he burned his feet so I thought it was important to check him out. The vet said the feet were fine, did a gram stain on the stool, thought he was almost a little overweight, and took some blood for a baseline and sent it to Miami. 
The bottom line is everything is out of whack. 
The URIC ACID is low - 2.0 The AST is very high - 1011. THe cholesterol is high - 430 . The PRE ALBUMIN is slightly elevated at 1.66. The R and HCT are high and the WBC is a little low. Lymphocytes are high and the heterophils are low.
So he says my options are to do nothing all the way to do a bile acid test and take an xray. He thinks there may be a liver issue going on.

Ideally, I would like to be very agressive with the diagnosis and treatment. BUt what scares me is during the visist last week, Sandt startedto hyperventilate. Im afraid of the trip again (its almost an hour ride) and the handling. Altho' the vet says if we do the xray, he would get a little gas so probably it would be less stressful for him this time around. He would take the blood for the bile acid test while he was out. He siadhe might give a long acting doxycycline injection.

ANyway, if I do nothing and Sandy gets really sick and dies, I'll feel horrible and that I was remiss in caring for him. On the other hand, if I bring him in and he dies during the process, Ill feel awful also.
hat is everyone's experiences with vet visits? I know every situation is different but Im used to mammals not birds so I am sorely lacking here.
Thanks,
DonnaMae


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Talk to your vet about the stress issue and see what they recommend. Chamomile tea is calming and has been used with birds, so you can also ask whether it would be OK to give Sandy some prior to the visit. Cool and in his water dish of course, not hot. I think it should be weak tea too but maybe someone with more tea experience can advise on that.

Liver problems are usually diet-related and the treatment is mostly dietary too. I am NOT recommending that you self-treat without vet supervision, but here are some links that you can look at to get an idea of what's involved, and maybe be better prepared to discuss it with the vet.

On the best general diet for cockatiels: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27479

On liver problems:
http://www.avianweb.com/liverdisease.html
http://www.exoticpetvet.net/dvms/fattyliver.html
http://www.freewebs.com/crestedlove/liverdisease.htm
http://theexoticvet.com/care-sheets/avian-liver-disease/


----------



## DonnaMae (Jan 27, 2013)

Hi Itelfan,
Thank you for the links. I printed them off and will read them.
I did mention my concern about the stress and the vet said this might even be less stressful for Sandy since he will be gasses. (Has to be fasted as well). He siad he's never had a bird die during an exam but of course there are no guarantees.
I bought some Harrisons food from him and am suppoed to do a diet switchover. THe first day didnt go so well so I regressed to previous diet.
Does anyone else's bird ever hyperventilate? My vet said its not common. If it happened all the time I would be less concerned.

DonnaMae


----------



## DonnaMae (Jan 27, 2013)

Oops, I meant Tielfan. Sorry


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

There are several members of the forum who have had stress issues with their birds during vet visits. There are some birds who will actually have stress seizures and this can be fatal. Your concern about the stress issue shows that you are a very good bird owner.

You're also wise to be careful with the diet conversion, because trying to rush things can be disastrous. I have some tips for persuading a bird to eat new foods at http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/nutrition-conversion.html


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

How badly did he hyperventilate? It's not unusual for tiels to pant after being handled in a stressful situation, particularly when there is bloodwork done. If he was panting for a bit and then recovered, I'd say that's pretty reasonable. However, if he was really struggling to breathe or didn't recover for hours, that's more unusual and concerning. If his liver is enlarged due to dietary issues, that could contribute to respiratory distress. 

I definitely think you need to proceed with tests and treatment, even if it is stressful for him. Talk to the vet about your concerns and ask him to proceed with caution accordingly. I have one bird with chronic respiratory problems who really does hyperventilate dangerously at the vet, so when I take him in, we handle him for short periods and let him recover in between. It works well. 

How old is Sandy? You may have mentioned it in you intro, but forgive me, I'm a graduate student and I generally only have time to look at medical threads. If he's an older bird who's been on a poor diet, then it does seem likely that this is dietary. 

One thing you may want to ask about is the high lymphocyte count. Does your vet think there is an infection present as well? Liver enzymes can become elevated due to metabolic distress when a bird is ill, so ruling out the possible presence of an infection is very important in Sandy's case. I'd definitely discuss whether your vet feels that treating with an antibiotic and repeating bloodwork would be a good course of action. The X-ray will probably give you a better idea of how much inflammation is going on internally, so it's not a bad idea either. 

It sounds like you're doing a very good job as a new birdie parent, and Sandy is lucky to have you.  please keep us updated as you learn more about his health!

ETA: are you in Florida (you mentioned sending blood to Miami)? If so, which vet are you seeing?


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

P.S. It can take a very long time to convince a bird to eat new foods, but if you're in the US or Canada you may be able to jump-start the process with Nutriberries. They're nutritionally equivalent to pellets but they look like seed balls, and it's usually much easier to convince a cockatiel to eat them. Some birds like to rip pieces off the balls and others prefer to have their humans crush the balls and put the pieces in a seed cup. Cockatiel Classic is a good type to start with.

Even if he's gung-ho for Nutriberries right off the bat, it's good to keep working on teaching him to eat pellets. If he's trained to eat more than one kind of "complete" food, his diet won't suffer if one particular product becomes unavailable.


----------



## DonnaMae (Jan 27, 2013)

THank you Tielfan and Enigma731.
When the vet put Sandy back in the carrier he said he was hyperventilatin and that it started partly thru the bood draw. I would say about once every 5 seconds or so Sandy took a noticable breath. It didnt last too long becasue I kept checking him on the way home and he was preening etc.

Yes the vet mentioned there could be an infection and we could do the doxy but he thought it was more prudent to do a workup first. Its odd becasue even tho the lymphocytes are high, the toal WB is a little low. But I also see a notation on the test results that there were many smudges on the slides which may have altered the differential and WBC. So, so much for htose values.

His age in unknown and I am in New Jersey.(will alter profile).

I kind of want to do the followup testing. 

I will definiately check out that food you mention.

Thanks again,
DonnaMae


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

By hyperventilating, do you mean breathing with his mouth open? That sounds pretty typical to me for a bird that's had blood drawn. I would be mindful of it during future exams, but it doesn't sound too extreme to me (speaking as someone who has a bird with respiratory problems).


----------



## DonnaMae (Jan 27, 2013)

Hi Enigma731
It was not a continual breathing with his mouth open. Every 5 seconds or so he would take a small gulp by opening his mouth
I'm just so scared
but if I don't take him he may be getting sicker

Thanks 
Donnamae


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

DonnaMae said:


> Hi Enigma731
> It was not a continual breathing with his mouth open. Every 5 seconds or so he would take a small gulp by opening his mouth
> I'm just so scared
> but if I don't take him he may be getting sicker
> ...


I don't think that sounds like there's a very high risk of something happening to him due to stress. 'tiels have a whole spectrum of stress responses, just like humans do. My 19 year old with respiratory issues will continually pant open-mouthed and tail-bob for about ten minutes after just a nail trim. When I had his blood drawn for initial diagnosis of respiratory problems, he was breathing hard for longer than that, but he did fine. In contrast to that, one of my two healthy birds will throw herself on the bottom of the cage, pant, and refuse to perch for half an hour after just getting a wing and nail trim, and there isn't anything wrong with her except being really high strung! 

So honestly, I don't think that you need to be as worried as you are about the hyperventilation, although, as your vet said, there are never any guarantees. But there are never any guarantees about anything, you know? If a bird has some kind of underlying medical problem that's going to cause a fatal stress response, that could happen just as easily being spooked by something at home as it could at the vet. 

What you KNOW for sure is that Sandy has a health problem that needs to be treated, so I think you should proceed with getting him care. I know it's tough, especially when you're a new bird owner, but I think you're making the right decisions for him.


----------



## DonnaMae (Jan 27, 2013)

Hi Enigma731
I think that is very good advice.
Thank you. 
Donnamae


----------



## tielz (Nov 29, 2012)

Hello Donna,
First, I am sorry that you are dealing with not only a suspected liver issue, but also with high stress levels while at the vet. 
Every tiel is different, so without knowing much about your little bird and the level of handling by you that is comfortable with your tiel makes it difficult to give much advise on vet visits. My tightly bonded to me hens are the ones who take handling by a vet much easier than my 2 high strung males. Most of the time, I am able to snap them out of their being upset by talking upbeat to them with familiar words, phrases and whistles. 

On the liver issues, definitely take them seriously and do a complete workup including Xrays. I had liver issues in a few of my tiels in the past. I lost two after long battles with this disease, the most recent being my beloved Penelopeep this past November. Xrays showed a mass in her enlarged liver that turned out to be a benign tumor. 

Peep's younger sister by one year is still here with me and also is being treated long term for liver issues. 
My vet back in Missouri had prescribed Roudybush Rx Liver diet several years ago. I have MiniToo on the liver diet, flax cereal for Omegas (an organic flake that all the birds love), and seed mixtures by Goldenfeast, Kaylor, and her favorite organic just veggies. I have the best tiels to feed seed to because they don't eat sunflower seeds or much safflower, so the wild birds get all the leftovers. I do not feed high protein foods or rich pelleted diets like Harrisons, which are linked to renal failure in cockatiels. 
Hopefully with your veterinarian care, you can reverse any liver damage. 
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.


----------

