# If you will still help me



## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

I promace not to post any offensive pidtures but I still need som input. 

I purchased a new Lutino hen hopieng to mate her with one of my male offspring. i am doing this in a hope to stop breeding the older male and hen I have been mating , since one or both of them seems to be uncontrolable PLUCKERS.

When my last clutch weaned and fledged early. I placed them in a female Communal cage. I picked a Pied male that seemed to have an uncontrolaable urge to get in the feamle cage even to the extent he would fight with his dad whom I had palced in the male communal cage . I have the two larger cages side by side and i had seen what I thought to be the new female showing off for all the males as well as the previous efforts on Dad and that Pied male.

When I bought the Lutino hen it had a orange spotted necklace affect that I was told was a hormonal indcation.

However when i placed that hen and the Pied male in a smaller cage with an attched Nest box which is located on top of the two communal ages , the female showed some mionr interest by the male still was more interested in the female communal cage which house his mom and sisters even as it had to stretch his neck to look down over the solid small cage floor.

when I got all but ready to give up I placed the new Female in a larger communal cage and attached the nest box with all the male offspring and removed the father. I was hoping the compettion would make one ( any one ) of the of age males pair up with the definetly breeding ready hen.

There is not only no breeding indictions but not even any interst in the nest box.

But they all still cling to the adjoing walls of the female cage and climb and pace all over it. But now even the new hen is doing the same.

I have tried all my hopes can any of you give me the right scenario to get a matched pair with this new hen in it and not use the father Tiel?

When I place the matched pair together they lay with in days of cohabitaing. What am I doing wrong?

I bought the hen from a breeder at a show , and was told it definetly was not only a FEMALE but as i said Hormonal and ready to mate. Howvere even if the breeder was wrong the new Lutino was housed for a long time with all the related females ) mother and daughters) and showed no interest in any of the girls even chick produceing MOM.

BUDDYD


----------



## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

a necklace sounds like the spot gene and has nothing to do with hormones. I have babies with a necklace. Search the forum for 'spot gene' for more information & pictures.


----------



## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*I don't think I was clear about a few things.*

First what I was speaking about has disapated since I have owned the hen. Next unlike some of the grays I saw pitured ( and I actually now have with my last two chicks) the speckling isn't spread around her chest but is tightly clustered on her neck and shoulders and isn't white or any normal shades but ORANGE like the Cheek patches. But with out photos does that sound like we are speaking about the same specks?

But most importantly I wasn't concerned with the coloration of this Lutino nor even what It might be split to ( Nor even the two Gray chicks I have that IMHO show exactly what i read about) 

I am trying to learn if there is some method to get a pair ( this hen and any of the males I have other than the older possible Plucking Gray that is the dad of every Clutch I have had)to become interested in mating?

I have seperated them to their own cage and attached the nest box and when that didn't produce any interest in each other nor the box, I tied the same with 3 different of age male siblings at the same time . I thought the competiton among the Males might help. But still nothing?

I only mentioned the Hen and her markings and what the breeder claimed to discount the Possibility the hen was actually Male. But if male it didn't have nay interest in all the females when It was in their communal cage earlier.

Does any of that make my problem/ questions clearer?


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Orange spots are an indicator of hormones, but they don't necessarily mean that the bird is hormonal right at this very minute. The bird is hormonal when the spots develop, but after the hormone surge passes it takes time to lose the extra orange feathers. Buster gets these orange spots sometimes and keeps them for several weeks after he's finished raising babies for the year.


----------



## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*Thanks that sort of answers som eof my questions?*

I am glad you confirmed what that breeder said . Well Partially LOL When you said "BUSTER" gets them I assume it safe to say in isn't any indiction of geneder .LOL

But I have also seen my males strut heart winged and sing as they paced back and forth. I have seen the younger males do that when only in the comapny of other males. But I have seen a big display like that when My breeding male first is placed with his mate. SOOOO I assume there are postures that indicate they are ready.

I have seen my breeding Hen balance on a perch with tail up and spread and wings spread and fluttering. I have long thouht that was an attention getting move. But recently I have seen both my new Lutino hen and my hatched Lutino hen ( willbe 1 yr. the first week of January) do the same move. In fact Ijust saw the new hen do that in a cage full of males of breeding ages.

However the younger Lutino does that a lot more ofetn . So is that any way of drawing attention from the males? ( I hope I hope) or is it just a Happy dance that has nothing to do with being ready?

So I guess it is Obvious i want badly to get this new Lutino hen to mate and lay. So what will HELP??????


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Orange "measles" know no gender, although they probably show up better on a bright yellow face. Buster (male) has gotten them more than once. Mims (female lutino) got them this year when she was incubating some foster eggs. 

When a hen stands with her back in a fairly flat position and her tail up, she's saying "climb aboard big boy".


----------



## 4birdsNC (Dec 4, 2010)

The orange spots or necklace shows that they were hormonal when they molted and the new feathers came in. How old are the males you wanted to mate her with. They may not be old enough. Also it takes more than a female and a male in the same cage with a breeders box, they need to have time to bond together... Leave her in the cage with the males and watch to see if she cozies up to one. They will start perching together and preening each other. It has been know for tiels not to bond. So you may have to try again, just give it time.


----------



## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*Thanks again for the advise*

I am patient really I am . It is just that with my one and only breeding Male, Patients wasn't needed and i guess he is a don Juan since neither of the two hens he breed with offered any resistance . When I bought the new hen I only had one cage set up when the breeder brought the selection to my house. And as soon as we put the hen in the cage the male began to strut and sing and approach her. I mean in MINUTES.

But I have taken the nest box down and I still have that one hen in a cage with 3 males.

The youngest of those males is about 17 months or so give or take a month.

The bigest problem is my breeding male is climbing the walls not being able to see his mate. 

I have a silly question , once a hen mates, lays and hatches eggs is she more attractive to males? The reason I ask is all the males ( some her offspring) follow her around in the other cage. In fact when the bonded male is in that same male cage it can cause FIGHTS. But mind you there are two cage walls between them.


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I don't think a hen becomes any more attractive whether she's had eggs or not, every male has his own idea of what he wants. I had a hen who wanted only normal grey looking boys, she never presented for anyone but a normal grey "looking" boy (I say this because Fuzzy is pearl but looks normal). Leave her where she is for now and let her pick one of the boys. Its her decision who she mates with not the other way around. So the boys have to show off for her and attract HER attention to get what they want.


----------



## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

OK as normal with my post there may be a complication that I can't resolve with out help. 

I have left the new Lutino Hen in the community cage with the 3 younger Male????? off spring. There is no noticeable attention to the Lutino . However the 2 slight pied Males? have been seen preening each other with some increased frequency. 

I know some males can be attracted to other male cage mates ( especially if no other choice and for a long time) However this all seems to have started when i did 2 things. Inserted the Lutino in the cage and temporarily attached the nest box to their cage.

SOOOO is there any definitive way to gender pieds that are over a year old?

I really wouldn't mind pairing 2 pieds ,But they are siblings. And my hope was to pair the lutino wit any of the 3siblings since they all share the same blood / genetic lines. BTW the 3rd sibling is a normal gray.

Am i being too concerned or is there a way to relieve my fears before it is too late ( Inbreeding or as with my older male having eyes for only one hen.LOL)


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Pictures of their tails and under their wings will help with sexing, although pieds will take longer to molt out barring and spots and such. I have two boys who preen each other all the time but have chosen mates as well so that may be what is happening there. At first, the boys aren't going to try to attract her, she's a new person in their home and they've probably been thrown off. They have to adjust to her being there with them first. My Jeep, who is just over a year old, has only now picked a girl he likes, who belongs to another boy. So it may take them some time and they probably wont be breeding any time soon, but you have to let her pick otherwise they could end up a bondage pair and then they would sit horribly and you would lose some if not all of the babies.


----------

