# Wing clipping to bond more?



## Pudu (Dec 30, 2013)

Hi ,

I was interested in the pluses and minuses from wing clipping, because some say if the wings are clipped the bird can become friendlier. :cinnamon pearl:


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## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

Pudu said:


> Hi ,
> 
> I was interested in the pluses and minuses from wing clipping, because some say if the wings are clipped the bird can become friendlier. :cinnamon pearl:


I would clip an untame bird both for training purposes and for their safety. If they are not tame, they may try to get away from you and escape or in struggling away run into a wall. If they are clipped its both more difficult for them to fly away and they will not run into things quite so hard helping to prevent serious injury.

Even considering all that, it will not on its own make your bird friendlier. But it may help you bond with the bird better since they can't just run away from you quite so easily giving you time to bribe them with millet and maybe eventually head scritches.


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## catalinadee (Jan 1, 2011)

I very much so dislike clipping myself. I used to do it and I find the results with a bird who was trained and a bird who was clipped and forced to be on me were completely different. Learning to respect a birds boundaries and have them come to you is by far a nicer approach. Birds need to be worked with, not dominated. If you put the effort in you will have a well rounded companion. My orange winged Amazon, who I thought would never ever come near me, was stepping up on me in no time after I started clicker and target training and I highly recommend that anybody tries it


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## larknight (Feb 8, 2011)

Catalinadee- How did you do the clinker and target training?


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## CaliTiels (Oct 18, 2012)

I used to be pro-clipping, but after seeing how well the birds warmed up to me eventually, I kinda turned the other way. Now, I'm not totally against it, and I don't have any bad feelings towards anyone who does clip, but_ I_ sort of feel guilty watching them fly so beautifully. 

But, if you want to know the true reason I switched sides, it's because of this: a bird that is fully flighted has its limits. You can work with it, and when it feels its had enough, it can leave by itself on its own terms.

I thought that sounded like a fair deal, so I tried it out. With time, it truly does work. Also, another reason I kept all my birds fully feathered is because they have so much energy, only heavy exercise will make them pipe down, and flying is good exercise. Makes for sleepy birds :lol:


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

catalinadee said:


> I very much so dislike clipping myself. I used to do it and I find the results with a bird who was trained and a bird who was clipped and forced to be on me were completely different. Learning to respect a birds boundaries and have them come to you is by far a nicer approach. Birds need to be worked with, not dominated. If you put the effort in you will have a well rounded companion. My orange winged Amazon, who I thought would never ever come near me, was stepping up on me in no time after I started clicker and target training and I highly recommend that anybody tries it


I fully agree with all of this. Trust and bonding needs to be won, not forced. I know it's hard, but try to put yourself in the bird's shoes, and imagine how we must look to them. There is lots of information to be found on positive reinforcement training, clicker training, target training, all over the web. I think the #1 mistake people make when trying to "tame" a scared or mistrustful bird is to rush things and not respect the bird's boundaries. It can set you back months, if not completely destroy your chances of ever winning the bird's trust. Patience is the name of the game.

Clipping does not make the bird like or trust you any faster, it just takes away any control they have over the situation. As prey animals, flight is ingrained in them, and it's all they have to rely on to keep them safe.


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## Peaches&Me (Oct 30, 2013)

catalinadee said:


> I very much so dislike clipping myself. I used to do it and I find the results with a bird who was trained and a bird who was clipped and forced to be on me were completely different. Learning to respect a birds boundaries and have them come to you is by far a nicer approach. Birds need to be worked with, not dominated. If you put the effort in you will have a well rounded companion. My orange winged Amazon, who I thought would never ever come near me, was stepping up on me in no time after I started clicker and target training and I highly recommend that anybody tries it





moonchild said:


> I fully agree with all of this. Trust and bonding needs to be won, not forced. I know it's hard, but try to put yourself in the bird's shoes, and imagine how we must look to them. There is lots of information to be found on positive reinforcement training, clicker training, target training, all over the web. I think the #1 mistake people make when trying to "tame" a scared or mistrustful bird is to rush things and not respect the bird's boundaries. It can set you back months, if not completely destroy your chances of ever winning the bird's trust. Patience is the name of the game.
> 
> Clipping does not make the bird like or trust you any faster, it just takes away any control they have over the situation. As prey animals, flight is ingrained in them, and it's all they have to rely on to keep them safe.


Well said  I couldn't have put it better myself


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## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

I do not clip my tame birds, but it stands to reason that an untame bird would ignore you and fly into a hazardous situation that might not be as serious if the bird were tame and could step up on your hand. Even if you're not sharing any sort of taming or training philosophy with me I think we can all agree a scared bird can fly around the room, get stuck in a corner with a mess of wires, land in a toilet, or find an open window and escape. It's a matter of safety.


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## Elishiva (Aug 23, 2013)

I have been considering clipping my tiels as well. Not for bonding but so they can't fly into walls and be hurt. I know when they are clipped flight is limited to "sprints" of a few feet but I have been reluctant to do so. To me it seems like I'm making a choice that isn't mine to make.


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## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

Elishiva said:


> I have been considering clipping my tiels as well. Not for bonding but so they can't fly into walls and be hurt. I know when they are clipped flight is limited to "sprints" of a few feet but I have been reluctant to do so. To me it seems like I'm making a choice that isn't mine to make.


If you are comfortable with your birds and they are comfortable with you, they have a flight cage, and they are kept well enclosed without any open windows I don't see why you should clip them. The problem is when you answer any of those "no" then you should clip.

I fundamentally disagree, this is a choice you should make because the bird isn't intelligent enough to make that decision themselves. They're domesticated and likely couldn't survive in the wild on their own. You as the owner are charged with that bird's good health and safety. We don't need to be tight-fisted about it, but it is our responsibility.


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## dianne (Nov 27, 2013)

I have one young tiel that came to me unclipped. She did a little flying into walls and windows at first, but she learned quickly. She is a now superb flyer!

My younger tiel was clipped when I got him. I plan to let his wings grow out. I feel bad for him when he watches my other three birds (two budgies and a tiel) flying around the room, and he cannot join in.

I tend to think the full flighted exercise is good for their health.


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## SoCalTiels (Oct 8, 2013)

Bird was clipped for six years, Mango is about the same age but came from a home where she was allowed to fly. Because of this, I didnt feel right clipping her, and with that decision, none of my birds would be clipped. The visible difference in their ability to move around the room is pretty remarkable, Mango can aim and land where she chooses while Bird is still a frantic flapper just trying to land /somewhere/. I still support it as a safe solution to a bird that is flying into windows (I had to put tape allll over mine for a bit because Rhea wasn't seeing the glass) and actually causing harm to themselves while flying, and I still personally believe it helps with bonding to a flighty, unsure new bird. Yes it is indeed less of the bird's choice than if they approach you free flighted, but regardless, if you're having difficulty bonding to your bird in can be the right option. Overall, it seems better for a birds mentality in captivity to be able to fly though this isn't always the right choice for every bird owner. I've been on both sides of the fence and choose to sit right smack in the middle. If you choose to clip your birds wings, it is always a decision that can be reversed by letting the flights grow out again if you decide it isn't for you. See what works for you personally, not just following the politics of wing clipping, because its a very touchy issue no matter who you talk to.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Darkel777 said:


> I do not clip my tame birds, but it stands to reason that an untame bird would ignore you and fly into a hazardous situation that might not be as serious if the bird were tame and could step up on your hand. Even if you're not sharing any sort of taming or training philosophy with me I think we can all agree a scared bird can fly around the room, get stuck in a corner with a mess of wires, land in a toilet, or find an open window and escape. It's a matter of safety.


Why would you let a bird out in the first place, if there were hazards in your home? Tame or not, clipped or flighted, toilets and windows without screens should be closed. As for birds panicking and flying into something, yes it can happen -- but it won't if you give the bird a chance to acclimate to their surroundings and practice flying. I wouldn't "take" a freaked out bird out of the cage, I would leave the door open and let them come out on their own, so they're calm and it's their idea. If you take things slow and don't force them, they shouldn't have a reason to panic. 

I also wouldn't let a bird who was new in the home fly free everywhere right away (unless they are a very skilled flier), but rather keep them in a safe room at first and gradually expand their space once they settle in and their confidence improves.

I have an untame bird who comes out of the cage all the time. I try not to startle her, but if it ever happens she just does a few laps around the room and lands safely. This is because I've let her hone her flight skills in a SAFE area.


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## SoCalTiels (Oct 8, 2013)

Not everyone has a bird room though. A lot of people have cages in their living rooms, bedrooms, etc. You can do your best to remove any hazards you can, but its hard to remove everything in a room used by an entire family daily. There are of course ways to remove the most threats you can, but theres always going to be something in a house that wouldn't be entirely okay for them. With mine, they're hand tame except for Rhea who's untouchable, but the situation doesn't really seem to change between them. Some can fly better than others, but they've all acclimated to the house and being here. Unfortunately, doesn't stop them from flying into things they shouldn't if one sets the others off, or even, rarely, hitting walls and falling. Sometimes clipping can be the smarter option for a person to provide a safer home for their companion, even if it limits the mobility. I dunno, if birds can live happy lives with wing amputations, its not completely detrimental for pet birds to have clipped wings either, even if its not the best situation for them. In certain homes, I could see it potentially being the safer choice.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

I see what you're saying, but honestly I think in the vast majority of cases, a home can be made safe with some effort and vigilance. There is just no excuse for leaving windows open when a bird is out, or toilets (pretty sure everyone has a bathroom door to close ) or pots of water accessible, etc. And yes, a bedroom can be made as safe as a bird room. IMHO.

But we are getting off topic, anyway. The OP asked specifically about clipping to help with bonding, and in my experience (and those of others, it seems), it doesn't. Bonding takes patience and time, that's all there is to it. Hazards in the home apply to any bird in any state of tameness. I generally disagree with "clipping for the bird's safety" when it is in fact often the opposite. Are there exceptions? Sure. But speaking in general terms, I find it more productive and better for the birds to focus on the majority of cases.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

At the end of the day, it's everyone's choice whether or not to clip, but I strongly recommend reading this article before making any decisions: http://trainedparrot.com/Clipping/

It addresses the idea of clipping for safety in great detail. I think if one still feels clipping is in their bird's best interest after reading it, at least they did their research.


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## andy (Jul 31, 2013)

my 2 cockatiels are amazing flyers, they can turn so fast and you can see how exited they get chasing each other round the room.its great exercise for them keeping mind and body healthy and they have never flew into anything and hurt themselves they just don't.if the bird is not tame leave him in the cage until he calms down a little and gets more used to you. he will still bite you if he is wild, clipped or not. birds that are clipped have a much greater chance of becoming obese and often land in a very clumsy manner causing the very injuries some people clip birds to avoid...


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## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

moonchild said:


> Why would you let a bird out in the first place, if there were hazards in your home? Tame or not, clipped or flighted, toilets and windows without screens should be closed. As for birds panicking and flying into something, yes it can happen -- but it won't if you give the bird a chance to acclimate to their surroundings and practice flying. I wouldn't "take" a freaked out bird out of the cage, I would leave the door open and let them come out on their own, so they're calm and it's their idea. If you take things slow and don't force them, they shouldn't have a reason to panic.
> 
> I also wouldn't let a bird who was new in the home fly free everywhere right away (unless they are a very skilled flier), but rather keep them in a safe room at first and gradually expand their space once they settle in and their confidence improves.
> 
> I have an untame bird who comes out of the cage all the time. I try not to startle her, but if it ever happens she just does a few laps around the room and lands safely. This is because I've let her hone her flight skills in a SAFE area.


Most of us live in active homes, just because one bird is flying inside isn't going to stop somebody from coming out of the bathroom or opening the front door after getting home from work. Unexpectedly, that safe situation becomes something a little less than safe. One second your new cockatiel is adjusting to its home and the next it flies out the front door.

I know you're going to say: "that could happen with any cockatiel". But which bird is more likely to do it? One that is bonded to you and comfortable in your home or one that's jumpy and frightened of people?


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Cockatiels startle very easily; and yes I have noticed this in my tame bonded ones as well. Anything can set them off -- sudden noises or movements. My untame girl isn't any more prone to it than my tame birds. Sometimes she will fly or move away *from me* if my hands get too close for her comfort, but that's not the panicking I'm talking about.

Anyone with birds in the home needs to be very careful. I personally wouldn't have birds at all if I felt there was a good chance of people being careless in my home. If the bird(s) are out, anyone coming or going should be made aware and take precautions. 

For example, I open and close doors slowly, and say "Hey birdies!" or something to let them know I'm coming in to their room, rather than just storming in. If someone is coming home from work, and they know there is a good chance the birds are out, they can call or text ahead of time to see if they should be a little extra careful when opening the door. And yes, of course people go in and out of the bathroom! A cockatiel isn't just going to dive straight into the toilet and immediately perish. I am sure that the person coming or going would notice a bird flapping in and landing somewhere unsafe, and rescue it...

As I mentioned before, a good solution in my opinion is don't let the bird until they have settled in, seem calm, and are at least not PETRIFIED of humans. You don't have to have the bird fully tame to let it out, just acclimate it to your presence and to the home so it learns it's not in grave danger. Just my two cents.

Oh, and you know what kind of bird has to be pulled out of unsafe situations most often, in my experience? A panicked CLIPPED bird who tries to fly and instead, falls to the ground. They can end up all sorts of places they didn't mean to go. A flighted bird who has actually been given the chance to develop flying skills can actually use its brain and reflexes to avoid crashing clumsily into things, but a bird who has been "grounded" cannot. There are tons of hazards in the wild, after all, and flying AWAY from them is what keeps birds alive.


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