# Identifying Adult Females



## satamakaupunki (Aug 30, 2015)

I wanted get some female cockatiels for my male cockatiels to breed them. Any possible way to spot an adult female? I know there isn't a clear-cut method but maybe some cues to pick up on? Last time I went to buy 2 adult females I ended up with two young males, sold one and kept one. I don't want to make the same mistake again, the people working in the pet stores don't know much about cockatiels so asking them is pointless, they're usually just trying to sell so they would give you whatever answer they think you want, like if I ask, is this a female while pointing at a male cockatiel some of them would answer with yes.


----------



## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

The more sex linked mutations a bird has, the more likely the bird is female. In contrast, normal greys are predominantly males. Sex-linked mutations are: Pearl, Cinnamon, Lutino, Dominant Silver, and sex-linked Yellow Cheek (there are many varieties of yellow-cheek). Dominant Silver and SLYC are somewhat rare. If any hen will do your holy grail is a Pearl Cinnamon Lutino.

I sat down and figured it out a long time ago:

2/3 birds with one sex-linked mutation are hens.

9/10 birds with two sex-linked mutations are hens.

99/100 birds with three sex-linked mutations are hens.

This is because hens require one Z chromosome to be visual for a mutation and males require two. So the chance for crossover having occurred and expressed is higher for hens.

This is assuming you don't know anything about the family history. With the bird in question's parent's mutations its possible to calculate more accurate odds with the aid of a genetic calculator.


----------



## satamakaupunki (Aug 30, 2015)

Thanks I know a bit about mutations but never considered using probabilities for sexing, pretty cool. One store had a wf cinnamon pearl, that one should fall into the 9/10 category I assume, I will look into getting it.


----------



## JoJo's Mom (Oct 20, 2012)

Have you done breeding prior to this? Have you raised chicks before? There is a lot more to breeding than just pairing up birds, its not something to take on casually. Don't mean to sound off, just wondering if you know what you are getting into.


----------



## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

I got a little inspired and sat down to figure out how many males are normal grey based on probability alone. It took me about two hours. I left out Dominant Silver and Yellow Cheek in the figures for two reasons A. It would skew the results, those mutations aren't that common. B. It would make figuring it out take a lot longer.

I couldn't finish the complete table that would take days, but based on what I did finish it was possible for me to estimate about 60% of males are normal grey in today's domesticated populations. That sounds close, but I expect the real answer to be a little higher than that. Permutations do not always reflect the real world, that is an important thing to remember. But they are a useful tool.


----------



## BlueDragon109 (Sep 11, 2015)

I'm not an expert with mutations, but females tend to have somewhat duller colors on the face, (e.g., Basic male has bright yellow face, female has a duller and somewhat grayed face.) and most females also have barring on the bottom of their tails.


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> I'm not an expert with mutations, but females tend to have somewhat duller colors on the face, (e.g., Basic male has bright yellow face, female has a duller and somewhat grayed face.) and most females also have barring on the bottom of their tails


So do juvenile males, which I'm guessing is what they ran into before. Every normal grey I've ever had was male. I also had some fancy males. Honestly, finding a store that has birds that aren't babies was the only way I for sure found hens in the mutations I wanted.

Are you looking for anything in particular? What mutations are your males?


----------



## satamakaupunki (Aug 30, 2015)

> What mutations are your males?


Not really looking for anything in particular, I have two males, one is cinnamon lutino and the other one is whiteface cinnamon


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

OK so you'll want to avoid breeding like to like, meaning breeding two of the same mutations together as that causes breeding issues in the chicks. It's best to get hens that are different than the males. You'll get some interesting babies for sure.


----------



## shaenne (Apr 19, 2014)

I've had people try to convince me that Zoe is a male because her cheek patches are so bright "like a male".. Even though she's DNA certified female 

Whenever i'm looking for new breeding stock, I usually find a good breeder in my state (that isn't too far away to drive) and ask for a list of their DNA tested birds they have for sale or would consider selling. They will usually send me a list of males, females and bonded pairs, all with photos.


----------



## TalkBirdy2Me (Aug 24, 2015)

If you want a guaranteed hen. Go for a BANDED. DNA certified hen. Get papers and check band number against DNA papers. That is your only guarantee. I DNA all my babies. I'm sure there are many others out there that do as well.


----------



## Jaguar (Jul 11, 2014)

If they can't even tell you these birds' genders, do you think they can tell you their history? What about their parents - did they have stable, friendly temperaments? Do they know if they have healthy immune systems or are they prone to disease? Did they have any physical deformities? What about those birds' parents? Their grandparents? And so on....

We hold breeders of other species like cats and dogs to such high standard, yet see no issue with thoughtless breeding when it comes to parrots. Think about this more and ask yourself if you're really breeding for the right reasons. Do you think breeding birds from a pet store is improving upon the health, temperament, conformation, and the cockatiel as a whole?

If you are hoping to make a bit of money, please consider another way. These babies may cost you a lot more than you realize.


----------



## satamakaupunki (Aug 30, 2015)

Yeah I'm totally going to buy 5 males and 5 females and throw them in a big cage with a bunch of nest boxes and give them the minimal amount of food that keeps them alive while they're nesting and at the end of the breeding season and I'll sell whatever makes it out alive.

For real though :lol: , I thought about this and read whatever is available online about the whole thing. Stores are my only option right now, but you can see how if I start breeding on my own I might not have to go back to them ever again and I will be able to help other people find healthy birds with known backgrounds.


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> For real though , I thought about this and read whatever is available online about the whole thing. Stores are my only option right now, but you can see how if I start breeding on my own I might not have to go back to them ever again and I will be able to help other people find healthy birds with known backgrounds.


It's a good point. There really are no breeders in your area? When I was expanding my flock, I ended up having to drive three hours both ways to pick up a new bird because there were only pet stores in my area and they didn't have what I was looking for. When it comes to your breeding birds, you have to be picky. You want the best of the best, good temperaments, healthy, bigger birds. 

Your best bet to find the females you are looking for is to ask the store to let you run a DNA test on the birds you are interested in. The pet store on my island didn't have an issue with this and the bird ended up not being what I was looking for. That way you are for sure getting what you want.


----------



## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

Look around for exotic animal and bird festivals/shows. Nashville is very close to me and holds one every year around this time. Its an acceptable alternative to pet stores.


----------



## satamakaupunki (Aug 30, 2015)

@roxy I've been following social media in my area to see if something pops up, few cockatiels pop up every now and then but they're usually babies or birds bought from stores, basically no experienced breeders. I don't know, there has to be someone out there, I might have to put an ad out maybe. The thing is pet stores are not really all that bad, if you look through a pet store you'll find some bald and small birds but there are usually nice big healthy ones too. DNA testing might be the solution after all.


----------



## Jaguar (Jul 11, 2014)

The thing is, these birds can live ~30 years. How can you say with certainty that you're breeding healthy 'tiels when you've only seen a brief snapshot of what's to come in their lives?

I, personally, would look into buying breeder stock and having them shipped to you. Then, hopefully they'll have some form of pedigree, and you'll know they've been disease and DNA tested. Shipping is around $100-200


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> @roxy I've been following social media in my area to see if something pops up, few cockatiels pop up every now and then but they're usually babies or birds bought from stores, basically no experienced breeders. I don't know, there has to be someone out there, I might have to put an ad out maybe. The thing is pet stores are not really all that bad, if you look through a pet store you'll find some bald and small birds but there are usually nice big healthy ones too. DNA testing might be the solution after all.


I found breeders with good stock by searching online, using google, and on ebay classifieds. I never looked on craigslist, but my husband did and found a bird he wanted on there. I just don't trust people on craigslist. We started off with pet store birds as well. You have to know your birds to know whether you can breed them or not.


----------



## satamakaupunki (Aug 30, 2015)

If you guys are curious here's what a pet market looks like around here, you can see glimpses of cockatiels every now and then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpH8nsNGsFM 

this one is about 4 hours from my place, but there's a closer one that's basically the same but a bit cleaner.


----------

