# My birds DID IT ! WHAT'S NEXT ?! PLEASE HELP !



## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

I'm so confused, I don't even know were to start....

Well. I have 7 cockatiels, 3 girls and 4 boys, two of them are siblings and are always showing affection, the other ones are not related, they just keep it cool as friends . BUT ! I have a male that's always trying to get with all the females, and neither one of the 3 females paid attention to him for a while until " Bella " ( which she had always lived with another male that I have ) decided to flirt back to him, and threw her past love in the garbage .... ( This might be so confusing, I'm sorry )
The thing is that Bella & The flirtatious bird (his name is Pavarotti ) starting bonding ALOT ! and LAST NIGHT I heard a really weird squeaking coming from the bird room and when I went there.... It was shocking ! ! ! 
Pavarotti was on top of her and I'm 100% they did it . . . He finished her off with a bite on her neck and just jumped off . . . :blush:

Now I'm not sure that the next step should be ... 
I put Pavarotti and Bella in a separate cage, they're in the same room as the other birds though, In the cage I put a nestbox with bounty on the bottom, they already filled out the nest with some " Nesting Material "I got them from the petshop (both of them are doing this job, they take turns inside the nesting box, one pulls out the strings of nesting material and drops it inside, the other one gets it and puts it together ), I put cuttle bone and I added " Nutrimin - Mineral Supplement " to their water. I'm not really sure what else I should add to their cage... I'm not sure if what I put in is the right stuff... I'm wondering if I should change their diet ( They're not soft food lovers, I've tried for longggg and nothing !  ) maybe I can get something from the pet-shop to supply more vitamins ?

I have read that there are chances we don't get chicks from the eggs but Its 100% sure that there will be eggs laid ? I'm worried about the hen's Health... I know they need extra vitamins and calcium when they lay eggs... and This had me worried before and I didn't want them to mate because of it . But now that It happened I just need some HELP to make sure everything will be ok ?

If there's a 100% probability of eggs laid, how long until I see the first egg ? And after that... What next ? 

PS. The male ( Pavarotti ) Turned completely aggressive towards me ever since they started bonding... What should I do to make him feel more comfortable ? On the other hand the hen ( Bella ) is really sweet, and she's looking for attention, and he doesn't want me near.... 

I don't know what to do :wacko: 

I'd appreciate so much any help ! 

I uploaded a picture of the hen ( in blue hammock )
The male is sitting on top of the cage
& Then a picture of all 7 birds. 

Thanks in advance !

Diana .


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

OMG, They just did it again ! :blush:


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It is NOT 100% sure that eggs will be laid. Some hens will never lay eggs unless they have a nestbox even though they're sexually active. But there are many hens who will lay eggs without a nestbox and even without a mate, so it's very possible that eggs will be laid.

Even with birds that have a nestbox and an owner who's trying to get babies, it takes more than one day of mating to produce eggs. It's more like a week or so for their hormones to get to the right stage for egg-laying.

If you don't want babies (and it sounds like you don't) there are things you can do to lower their hormone level and get them out of breeding mode. The long nights treatment is usually the most effective - that's at least 12-14 hours of uninterrupted darkness every night for at least a week. Putting them in separate cages so they can't copulate is obviously helpful too. It's OK for them to look at each other so the cages can be close together.

Other hormone-reducing techniques are to give them enough food to eat every day but not to have a lot of additional food available, so they'll think there's not enough food available to feed babies. Especially reduce the amount of greens and other soft foods suitable for babies. Rearrange the items in the cage and/or the area around the cage to make things look different - the idea is to make the environment seem a little less secure without scaring your birds a lot.


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Thank you so much for your answer. 

I do want the babies, I just want everything to be right...for the parents to stay healthy and the same for the chicks.. I already see them working so hard to build their nest and ever since I wrote the thread they copulated 2 more times :blush: i still get a "panic attack" every time I hear her " Squeaking " 

I just have a bunch of questions of what I'm supposed to do next... I put them in a cage together, and got them a nesting box and the nesting material and right away they started building it up... But I noticed the material I got them, is making a lot of mess... What material do you recommend ? 
As I said before, they take turns to be inside the nest... and every time she comes out of the nest, and before he goes in the nest, they're copulating.... 
He sings and "talks" while he's inside the nest... and when she's inside he throws the " nesting material " inside and sings  That's a sign that he's happy !!! 

Should the nest be big enough for both of them to fit inside at the same time ?

PS. I think she plucked some of her bottom feathers and put them inside the nest, that's what I can see... 

Thanks again and I'm sorry for bothering ... 
I'm so eager to learn


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Can you post any pix's of the pairs and what you are using for nesting material. The wrong nesting material can contribute failure of the eggs to hatch. if you can find Aspen or pine shaving and have them 3" deep in the bottom of the nestbox that would be great.


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Hi,
The nesting material I'm using is called " UltraCare Material "
Its the only one my local pet shop carries... but I'm gonna go out now and look for the pine shavings, I think I've seen it in my pet-shop but when I asked what should I use as a bedding material they said this " UltraCare material" was the best for it, I believe they sell the pine shavings for other purposes. . . 

I also attached the picture of the nesting material and a picture of the couple... the hen is the one standing straight and the male is right next to her, and the one bending his head is the hen's ex-husband  She's not as dark as it looks in the picture, I've been trying to take a better picture today but It seems impossible...

Quick question ... Should I let them come out of the cage ?


Thanks again ! 

Diana


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## Berdnerd (May 20, 2010)

I think you should buy the aspen shavings or pine shavings. I doubt the people at the pet store are experts on baby cockatiels! The thing is, the bedding in the nest isn't just there to cushion the eggs and keep them warm and absorb poop. The bedding can really affect the amount of moisture in the eggs. A couple of months ago, a member here on the forum had only 1 of her eggs hatch because she used coconut fiber bedding and the bedding took too much moisture out of the eggs. Aspen and pine do not have that problem.

I want to point something else out, too- Do you have the time to hand raise the chicks if necessary? A lot can go wrong and there's a decent chance you'll end up with little babies who need you to feed them every few hours. Or, even worse, sick little babies who need to be fed and medicated very frequently. Having baby cockatiels is scary when you are inexperienced, so much can go wrong. This is something to consider before you let your birds have babies. Now that you've given them a nest box, they probably will lay eggs, but my tiels mated very frequently for a good year and a half before they laid eggs on the floor of the cage, so mating doesn't necessarily equal babies. My male and his previous girlfriend mated frequently for 3 years and never laid eggs until I gave them a nest box. Putting a nest box in when they're mating makes it much more likely though.

Good luck!


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Hi ! 
I'm trying to find out which pet store has either pine or aspen shavings so I can go get it . Thank you so much for the concern and help ! 

Right now I'm attending school only 2 days out of the whole week, and the days I'm in school my boyfriend will be here to attend the birds. I'm not working, so the rest of the days I'm home with the birds. I read a lot about birds, everyday ! I know a little but I always wanna hear more and learn from everyone ... 

Since I already put the nest box in, I feel so guilty to just take it away... I'm willing to give a 100% into this... That's why I'm trying to figure everything out at an early stage. 

I'm gonna go to the rescue where I got the birds from, they are willing to teach me as much as possible too . 

Thanks so much !


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## sidneymysnake (Jul 3, 2010)

Any pet store sells Pine or Aspen - even Walmart and Target sell bags of it so it shouldn't be too tough to find. It will probably be in the small animal section.


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Yeah ! 
Thats exactly where I found it . I just didn't know it would fulfill this purpose... In the pet store they told me I shouldn't use this for birds and they gave me the other " Nest Material " But now I went there and got pine shavings. 

Thanks !!!!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

LOL...not to sound Jaded...but the pet store is going to sell what they have to make a sale. This does not mean that the product is good for you to use.

I would consider it a very dangerous material for cockatiels, especially if they chew it and it impacts or twists in their intestines. It could wrap around a babies neck or foot and cut off circulatation, and/or death.


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## AlbyPepper (Apr 3, 2010)

I was just looking at the picture of your gorgeous flock, and noticed that the one at the rear on the right looks like it has a sore wing. Is it alright?


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

I rescued her from a very bad home, her old owner didnt take care of her at all and the bird started screaming for help, and the owner couldn't take it and hit her beak (that's all I could take out of her). The bird started plucking her feathers badly... her belly was extremely swollen (signs of other kind of abuse) she couldn't go on perches, she was always on the bottom on the cage and very lethargic , she was in a clinic for about 2 months before I could bring her home, the vet and I really thought she wasn't gonna make it, up until today she still plucks one or two feathers in a week... when it gets bad I have to put a collar on that I made for her and I take it off everyday to let her clean herself under my supervision, and around the second or third day of her having the collar I take it off and let her rest, the longest she's had the collar on is 4 days... I really try a lot with her... I have tried everything, from home remedies, to antibiotics... she's gotten a lot better, but not 100%, She still doesn't trust me fully, she lets me pet her head every now and then but she's shaky when you talk to her... She's really traumatized.  I talk to her daily, take her out... give her baths to reduce the dryness in her skin and I give her multi-vitamins. I think its a matter of time and patience, if you know of anything else I can do for her please let me know . 

I'll attach pictures of her . 

Diana


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

I don't understand.

You state you "don't want babies" and now you are setting them up with a nestbox in another cage together? if you don't want babies, then put them in separate cages.

By the way, you shouldn't breed until you have done tons of research.. there is more to just shoving them in a cage with a nestbox.


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Thanks Srtiels, I learn new stuff everyday


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Solace. said:


> I don't understand.
> 
> You state you "don't want babies" and now you are setting them up with a nestbox in another cage together? if you don't want babies, then put them in separate cages.
> 
> By the way, you shouldn't breed until you have done tons of research.. there is more to just shoving them in a cage with a nestbox.


Hi Solace, 
I never stated that "I don't want babies", I said that I didn't want them to mate yet because I am concerned about the parents health as well as the chicks but since it happened I am sure I can try it... I started this thread as part of my " research ". I don't believe its easy, it never crossed my mind that " shoving them in a cage with a nestbox " was the easy way... the contrary, I am asking so many questions to make sure I get the best answers there can be. I read everyday about birds and other animals as well, I keep track of my birds health and I give them everything they need and want, including lots of affection and time. If I didn't think I could handle the responsibility of having baby birds in the house, I wouldn't dare to do it... I understand everything that comes with it, but I still want to know more, thats the only reason I keep asking and asking and asking, Hopefully I learn from all of you who have tons of knowledge and I stop making mistakes... 
As soon as I saw them mating I got on the computer, started researching, called the vet and let her know,she told me to put them in a cage together and put a nestbox in, she didn't give much details because it was late at night but she will come around on saturday, today I called the rescue where I got the birds from and let them know whats going on... and all those people are willing to help me as well... I'm a second semester vet student, I wish I could just learn everything with the blink of an eye. . . but as for now I am stuck in course classes until next semester... I do research, I did not " shove the birds in a cage with a nestbox " I am only concerned about their health and I want the best for them.

Diana


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

_* I have tried everything, from home remedies, to antibiotics... she's gotten a lot better, but not 100%,*_
*-------------------------*

you might want to research and ask your vet about CUD (chronic ulcerative dematitis)

Also you mentioned several times giving vitamins. In excess these can cause health problems and toxicity, and also contribute to plucking.


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

If you are concerned about their health, and the vet knows this, they shouldn't be telling you to put a nest box up. If the vet doesn't know about this concern of health, then you shouldn't put a nest box up until you know they are 100% healthy and get the all clear to breed, that is when a nest box can be added. 

There is all sorts of problems that can happen with the female especially, for example prolapsing.. also breeding drains a lot of their calcium, if you had a female that was lacking calcium, that female could end up really sick and have trouble passing an egg/ or eggs. 

Just trying to give you a heads up, it isn't easy, it can be a lot of money, and you need to do lots of research to know what you are in for.


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

The vet doesn't medicate her anymore, she told me it wasn't any infection or anything that needed to be treated with antibiotics anymore, we gave her a lot of antibiotics when she was in the clinic because of her swollen belly. She also said that the bird might just pluck out of habit and she might never stop plucking, I would say the plucking has reduced 98%... She gained weight and she comes out of the cage by herself now... I say she's not a 100% because she's still very traumatized, she's really afraid of people, she can't stand people being near her, even when she's inside the cage with door closed I talk to her from outside and she's shaking like crazy... Its so sad  The vet taught me how to make her collar so it wouldn't hurt her at all and she can eat and move around the cage with it and its really easy to take it off, it takes two seconds to put it on, two seconds to take it off, she only has to wear it when she goes O.D. on the plucking 

I give all of my birds vitamins in the water, they are rescued birds, people didn't want them around, they were probably birds given to kids and when parents got sick of cleaning the mess they got rid of them, they never cared about what they fed the birds and there's only 2 of them who eat vegies with me sometimes, and I actually have to eat them too, so I give them vitamins as a complement. I put this vitamins in the water only 3 times a week . Should I reduce this though ?

Thanks again . 

I uploaded some pictures of the " Injured bird " her name is delilah, those are old pictures, she's much better. I will take new pictures and show you .


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Solace. said:


> If you are concerned about their health, and the vet knows this, they shouldn't be telling you to put a nest box up. If the vet doesn't know about this concern of health, then you shouldn't put a nest box up until you know they are 100% healthy and get the all clear to breed, that is when a nest box can be added.
> 
> There is all sorts of problems that can happen with the female especially, for example prolapsing.. also breeding drains a lot of their calcium, if you had a female that was lacking calcium, that female could end up really sick and have trouble passing an egg/ or eggs.
> 
> Just trying to give you a heads up, it isn't easy, it can be a lot of money, and you need to do lots of research to know what you are in for.


Thanks Solace, 
I am informed about the problems that can happen and thats what scares me the most, I believe that anyone who started breeding for the first time were scared too ! <-- that has been my face for the past day ! 
Thanks again, I know how expensive vet bills can be, I will keep on researching.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

Hi Diana,
I wish you luck with your eggs and plenty of websites have information regarding breeding as well. May I ask what exactly is your birds diet? I'm not sure if you mentioned it or not, but your bird should definitely have access to a cuttlebone.

I also wanted to comment on one of the pictures you posted. I see you have a bird outside that is uncaged and not on a lead. I urge you to refrain from doing that if you don't want to lose your baby. Even an unclipped bird (the one in the picture looks like it should be able to fly a bit by how long the flights are) can escape with a gust of wind and TOO many people on here have lost their believed pets, including me... some have witnessed their deaths by birds of prey as well.
If you would like to bring your bird out side, there is always caging it or putting a bird harness on. 
Its a horrible risk that may cause your birds death and your heart to break. Its a pain you never want to go through.


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## tielmom (Aug 4, 2010)

As an owner who lost one of my tiels by him flying right out my front door, I second what Cheryl has said...trust me, you do not want to lose one of your tiels, it is awful and my heart still hurts and it was back in June of this year...Not a day goes by that I do not miss him and long to have him back.

As far as your tiels possibly having babies, I just wanted to say good luck and I hope everything goes smoothly for you. From what I have seen and read on this forum, a lot can happen and it is good that you are studying up and preparing ahead of time.

Make sure that you girl tiel has a cuttle bone like Cheryl said, that is extremely important...have to keep her calcium levels up. I just got my vet assistant certification.
Are you going to school to be a vet, vet tech or some other specialist?


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Cheryl said:


> Hi Diana,
> I wish you luck with your eggs and plenty of websites have information regarding breeding as well. May I ask what exactly is your birds diet? I'm not sure if you mentioned it or not, but your bird should definitely have access to a cuttlebone.
> 
> I also wanted to comment on one of the pictures you posted. I see you have a bird outside that is uncaged and not on a lead. I urge you to refrain from doing that if you don't want to lose your baby. Even an unclipped bird (the one in the picture looks like it should be able to fly a bit by how long the flights are) can escape with a gust of wind and TOO many people on here have lost their believed pets, including me... some have witnessed their deaths by birds of prey as well.
> ...



Hi Cheryl . 
Thank you so much for your answer, I googled a lot of pages about cockatiel breeding and I'm well informed by now... I always have cuttlebone for each cage and I have calcium supplements for their water as well because not all of them like the cuttlebone, as for the hen that might lay eggs, she's eating plenty of cuttlebone, I see her going into it every time I look at her  what really concerns me is that she doesn't eat enough greens, and it has been impossible to get them into softs and greens. . . I will have to work harder on that ! 

As for the tiel that you saw on top of a cage, his name is Lorenzo, I rescued him when he was still a baby, his owner decided to clip one of his wings, and as a result of unexperienced wing trimming he mutilated his right wing, he could't fly at all 
Now he's much better, he flies only when his sister is flying around, he follows her. I don't take him outside of the cage anymore when we're in the open . 

I attached pictures of him when I first got him so you can see how badly the wing was trimmed. One side looked perfectly fine and the other one was destroyed.


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

tielmom said:


> As an owner who lost one of my tiels by him flying right out my front door, I second what Cheryl has said...trust me, you do not want to lose one of your tiels, it is awful and my heart still hurts and it was back in June of this year...Not a day goes by that I do not miss him and long to have him back.
> 
> As far as your tiels possibly having babies, I just wanted to say good luck and I hope everything goes smoothly for you. From what I have seen and read on this forum, a lot can happen and it is good that you are studying up and preparing ahead of time.
> 
> ...


Hi!
I know its hard to lose our dearly friends... I'm always worried about it, and if I wouldn't be sure about taking him out I'd never do it... at that time he had problems with his right wing, I already explain on a post before when I replied to Cheryl, check the pictures i attached on that post and you'll understand. This summer I had screens installed in all the windows in my house, so there's no way for anyone to fly away ... 

Thank you for the good wishes, I really hope that everything goes down smoothly, and we get healthy babies and everyone stays healthy as well . I already have cuttlebone for the hen and vitamins for the water. 

For now, Vet tech is it. I wanna move out of NY and decide what I really wanna specialize in. Congrats on your certification ! :clap:


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## tielmom (Aug 4, 2010)

Thank you on the congrats...I just got my certification and I love working with animals. Good luck with your studies too.
Keep us posted on what is happening in the nest


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> when I asked what should I use as a bedding material they said this " UltraCare material" was the best for it, I believe they sell the pine shavings for other purposes. . .


The store people probably don't know much about birds. Stuff sold as nesting material is for birds that actually build nests. Cockatiels and almost all other parrots don't build a nest - they use an existing hole in a tree. They usually do some shredding on the inside and around the entrance, but they don't bring in material from outside. That's why we have to provide a nestbox (to simulate the tree hole) and put a nice layer of wood shavings inside (to simulate the debris that naturally accumulates and the shredded bits the parent birds would create). 

Get Kaytee brand wood shavings if you can. I'm not generally a fan of Kaytee but I've found that their wood shavings are nice and clean, while some other brands are full of dust that's really bad for the babies. If you see cedar shavings do NOT get them - they're much too aromatic for birds. But pine and aspen are fine.


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## tielmom (Aug 4, 2010)

Tielfan, I have been meaning to tell you this....I love your signature...it is great.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Avoid coconut hair as well, I'm the one that only had one baby hatch. On top of taking moisture from the eggs its no good when it comes to the babies growing up, they can get caught in it. The pet store told me it would be good for tiels, which is why I bought it and I regret it immensely.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

What is their base diet though? Seeds? Pellets? If on seeds you may want to try converting to pellets which are much more nutritious. You do want to keep some seed in the diet however. Also, how do you offer veggies? Try hanging a piece of lettuce or spinach from the top of the cage using a clothespin like a toy. You can also offer scrambled eggs (with some egg shell too) or some cooked chicken. As a treat my birds LOVE cheerios (they do a dance whenever I shake the box) and whole wheat bread.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Tielfan, I have been meaning to tell you this....I love your signature...it is great


Thanks! One of these days I want to change it though, to have more of a collage of the four birds in the bottom half instead of just portraits.


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Cheryl said:


> What is their base diet though? Seeds? Pellets? If on seeds you may want to try converting to pellets which are much more nutritious. You do want to keep some seed in the diet however. Also, how do you offer veggies? Try hanging a piece of lettuce or spinach from the top of the cage using a clothespin like a toy. You can also offer scrambled eggs (with some egg shell too) or some cooked chicken. As a treat my birds LOVE cheerios (they do a dance whenever I shake the box) and whole wheat bread.


Hi again Cheryl, 
I give my birds a mix of seeds and pellets since they don't like eating just the plain pellets, but I'm always trying to reduce the amount of seeds. I tried giving them Nutri-Berries but they just throw them out of the food bowl or they put them in the water, I tried smashing them and mixing it with the rest of the food but they manage to notice the difference somehow. I also give my birds some sort of " salad " in which I put Pasta, Sweet corn, Carrots, They really like when I toss Jalapenos inside, Not all of them eat this though. I offer all kind of greens, I'm a broccoli lover so when I'm eating it, I put some for them, I boil it in plain water, no salt or anything else added and I try offering them but NOTHING  I tried lettuce, Spinach... Nothing  
I tried chicken too and one of them actually likes it, the only problem is that I don't eat meat so I barely ever cook this... I'm gonna try eggs, I'll go out and buy some .

Thank you so much !


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

tielfan said:


> The store people probably don't know much about birds. Stuff sold as nesting material is for birds that actually build nests. Cockatiels and almost all other parrots don't build a nest - they use an existing hole in a tree. They usually do some shredding on the inside and around the entrance, but they don't bring in material from outside. That's why we have to provide a nestbox (to simulate the tree hole) and put a nice layer of wood shavings inside (to simulate the debris that naturally accumulates and the shredded bits the parent birds would create).
> 
> Get Kaytee brand wood shavings if you can. I'm not generally a fan of Kaytee but I've found that their wood shavings are nice and clean, while some other brands are full of dust that's really bad for the babies. If you see cedar shavings do NOT get them - they're much too aromatic for birds. But pine and aspen are fine.


Hi, Thanks so much for your suggestions, its very helpful, I understand now why they had no idea what to do with the nesting material I put inside their cage at the beginning and they made a huge mess!!! But now that I changed everything and I put pine shavings inside the nest, they're fine.... He sings the whole day and they take turns to go inside the nest, and they're still copulating frequently . Thank you so much !


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

_*? If on seeds you may want to try converting to pellets which are much more nutritious.*_
*------------------------*



From personal experience I tend to disagree with the above statement. In reality the tiels should be offerred a balance of a varied diet and free choice (meaning separate bowls, not mixed) of seed, pellets, and greens ro veggies. I also tend to stay away from people foods that are cooked. Cooking can reduce nutrinet content of the vitamins and is not a good source of natural enzymes.

You had mentioned that you have cuttlebone in your cage as a source of calcium since you have them set up.

I am working on an article for my website. This is the beginnings of it but there might be some helpful info in it:

*The Importance of Calcium*​　
We have all heard that it is important to supply calcium sources, especially when a bird is laying or breeding. The reason why is to provide enough calcium intake to produce strong, dense shell on the eggs, and to also be a preventative to soft of shelless eggs, which can contribute to egg binding and/or dystocia, or prolapse of the uterus.

The most common recommendation is supplying cuttlebone or calcium supplements, and greens or veggies that are rich in calcium. In supplying this we think the bases are covered and aid as a preventative to a hens reproduction problems.

Most times this is not enough. There are several factors that can influence the output of calcium circulating in the bloodstream, which is drawn from the bones while an egg is in the uterus (shell gland). 

1...Proper lighting plays a role in good reproductive health of hens. Either in the form of real sunlight (not filtered thru glass) or from Full Spectrum Lighting (FSL) In simple terms the skin absorbs the UV rays from the lighting and the body converts it to useable D3, and this in turn aids the uptake of useable calcium. 

2...Preventative water treatments such as ACV can change the pH in the digestive tract. When the pH is higher than 6.5, absorption of phosphorus markedly decreases. Excess free fatty acids in the diet can cause the pH to decrease and therefore, interfere with calcium and phosphorus absorption.

3...Researching the sources of calcium and other mineral nutrients is very important. High levels of phosphorus in the blood will inhibit the mobilization of calcium from bone. When this occurs this increases the chances of soft-shelled eggs which can lead to impactions and binding.

You can go online to search for the following: You can look up on this site which foods (Nutrient lists) are high in calcium: 
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ 

The shell of an egg consists of, so you will want to also look up which greens/veggies foods contain trace elements of the following:
Calcium carbonate: 94-97% 
Phosphorus: 0.3%
Magnesium: 0.2%
Sodium, Potassium, Manganese, Iron and Copper: traces 
Organic matter: 2% 
The small amount of organic matter mostly consists of matrix proteins (mixture of proteins and polysaccharides rich in sulphated molecules) and shell pigment. The matrix proteins are critically important in determining the egg shell structure and serves as foundation for the deposition of calcium carbonate. 

The structure of an eggshell when examined under a high powered microscope will look like a tangled network of mineralized fibers…kind of like looking at the mat in an air conditioner filter. The eggshell is formed around a mat of proteins, which is coated and overgrown by calcium carbonate and other mineral salts. The result is a tough, waterproof package that still allows gas exchange between the inside and the outside, enabling the developing embryo to 'breath', while providing astonishing mechanical strength. The shell has enough calcium carbonate in it, which as the embryo gets close to hatch, it can use this reserve to draw into the body and bloodstream for the developing bones.
　
NOTE: most greens and veggies contain oxalic acids. These will bind useable calcium from foods. What you want to do is look for foods that have a *higher* calcium content than oxalic acid. _The useable calcium is the difference between the two._ Print out the following tables from both links:
Guinea Lynx ::Oxalic Acid in Selected Vegetables
Guinea Lynx :: Calcium Chart 
Once you print out the 2 links above, you will have to look at the listed calcium level in this link: http://www.guinealynx.info/diet_ratio.html Deduct the oxalic acid levels to give you a clearer pix of the calcium to phosphorus ratios.
 
Examining and providing the best sources of calcium does not stop at providing good shell quality. 
During the last 15 hours of shell formation, calcium movement across the shell gland reaches a rate of 100-150 mg/hr. This process draws calcium from two sources: diet and bone. Intestinal absorption of calcium in the diet is about 40% when the shell gland is inactive, but reaches 72% when active. This time closely coincides with late afternoon or the dark hours for the layer. Having higher calcium levels in the gut during this time is important to ensure calcium is being taken from the diet and not bone.

NOTE: We are warned not to provide sources of sodium to our birds, but many can go to the extremes of eliminating all sources of sodium and this can have an effect on a laying hen. The lack of (or deficiency) trace minerals and salt can be contributing factors to soft shelled eggs, and poor uterine muscle tone. This is also true of many birds that die of egg binding. Salt/sodium aids in the muscle contractions. When there is a deficiency there can be a loss of muscle tone to expel the egg. Therefore in your researching on a diet supplying needed calcium, and other trace minerals, try to include sources of sodium.

The need for a good source of calcium does not stop at supplying it prior to egg laying. The calcium is drawn into the developing embryo and it gets drawn through the vascular network of blood veins radiating into the body from the yolk. During this time the embryo draws calcium from the shell to strengthen developing bones. If the calcium in the shell is insufficient this can contribute to weaker bones, and problems such as splayed leg , soft flexible leg bones, and/or fractures forming within days after hatch. For good bone growth and strength these post hatch problems can be avoided by supplying food sources rich in calcium and trace minerals to the feeding parents.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

srtiels, that is awesome! Mine eat corn like crazy, but don't really like anything else, unless I shave the tops off broccoli and mix it with their seeds, they eat all the broccoli not realizing what it is. I chop up little carrots too and mix them in as well. This works out for me for now until I can get them to realize what it is that they're eating.


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Srtiels, thank you for providing us with your knowledge, it's really great that you share all of this information with us, we can learn tons out of it . 

Roxy, mine are like that too !!!


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## AlbyPepper (Apr 3, 2010)

dianaxgalvez said:


> I rescued her from a very bad home, her old owner didnt take care of her at all and the bird started screaming for help, and the owner couldn't take it and hit her beak (that's all I could take out of her). The bird started plucking her feathers badly... her belly was extremely swollen (signs of other kind of abuse) she couldn't go on perches, she was always on the bottom on the cage and very lethargic , she was in a clinic for about 2 months before I could bring her home, the vet and I really thought she wasn't gonna make it, up until today she still plucks one or two feathers in a week... when it gets bad I have to put a collar on that I made for her and I take it off everyday to let her clean herself under my supervision, and around the second or third day of her having the collar I take it off and let her rest, the longest she's had the collar on is 4 days... I really try a lot with her... I have tried everything, from home remedies, to antibiotics... she's gotten a lot better, but not 100%, She still doesn't trust me fully, she lets me pet her head every now and then but she's shaky when you talk to her... She's really traumatized.  I talk to her daily, take her out... give her baths to reduce the dryness in her skin and I give her multi-vitamins. I think its a matter of time and patience, if you know of anything else I can do for her please let me know .
> Diana


Oh my goodness!!! The previous owner needs to be shot! Sorry if that seems harsh, but that is how I feel about anyone who mistreats and abuses animals. Thankfully she is in your loving care now. I have the deepest respect for people who rescue little ones in need and work with them to enable them to trust again. Thank you for giving this little one a home!


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## AlbyPepper (Apr 3, 2010)

dianaxgalvez said:


> Srtiels, thank you for providing us with your knowledge, it's really great that you share all of this information with us, we can learn tons out of it .
> QUOTE]
> 
> I totally agree! Susanne has helped me with a few questions I had and is an invaluable source of knowledge. Thanks Susanne.


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

*Pictures of the happy couple !*

Ok, The pictures were taken this afternoon... They do this all day long !!!
I'm gonna try feeding them eggs w/ eggshells to balance her calcium. I should't put jalapenos in her salad for now right ? I'm gonna put spinach, pasta, eggs, carrots and red bell peppers . 

I'll take pictures of the nest, with the new bedding that I got for them. 

Thank you so much for everything who helped me out !


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Alby, You don't understand how sad my heart gets every time they call from the rescue and I have to go all the way to NJ to see birds suffering, birds starving or mutilating themselves because of a bad owner, If I could I'd bring all of them in, but unfortunately I can't... And its not only birds... So many other animals are getting abused, neglected, starved to death... Its really sad... 
Its a really long journey with neglected animals, specially birds, they're so small and fragile... I don't understand how a person can hit them, or abuse them in any form... The bird I talked about in the post before; she has improved tons, her attitude is much better; she doesn't attack as much if you approach her really slowly and she hears your voice for a around 3 minutes before you try to get her to jump on your finger, she only stays on the finger for a couple of seconds though... She doesn't trust anyone new either... Its only my mom, my boyfriend and I who can really approach her, I check her every day to see that she's good, I follow her weight daily and we visit the Vet every month... Its not easy but she's getting all the love in the world !!!! We spend a lot of time with all of the birds and I don't wanna be pushy with her and I know that she doesn't feel comfortable being away from the rest of the birds so I don't get any alone time with her yet. All of my birds are rescued birds, so with each of them it has been a different problem but we can overcome anything if we put a lot of love and attention into it, right ?!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> All of my birds are rescued birds, so with each of them it has been a different problem but we can overcome anything if we put a lot of love and attention into it, right ?!


Right!!! I really admire you for this, this is totally amazing!


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Thanks Roxy .


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