# yellowish urates in baby cockatiels' poop..



## paoputrees (Mar 27, 2014)

Okay I realize I have been posting a couple of new threads about my new birds already, but I realized something new...

When I went to buy these two 7.5 week old babies, the poops looked good, although I didn't get a super close look. Now that I have them, I've noticed that their poop urates have a yellowish tinge to them and sometimes green... but they're so young, why would they have anything wrong? Could it maybe just be the stress? I've read a bit on what it could be. What do you think?

They were parent fed and then once weaned a little over a week ago, were switched to a seed mix their parents were also on. I began giving them harrison's parrot pellets high potency right away, and they eat them although I notice they prefer the seeds. They look very healthy otherwise though! The grey is very active and although both are untame, he/she already let me scratch their head and they nibbled on my hair and glasses; while the other one is not as active, and is a bit bigger looking and fluffed more of the time, although he/she is also more scared of me so I think that has more to do with the stress. 

Oh, and another thing they do is stretch their neck/yawn a lot some time after their meal. My other cockatiel who passed a few months ago did this too and I read way back when that it's just them helping to move things along in their crop etc, so I didn't think much of it. They also don't poop as often as I know an adult bird should - from observing so far today, the lutino had an hour interval between poops, and the grey had 30 minutes, but all the poops are consistent in size. I'm not sure if that's normal for babies

I don't really want to take them to the vet already because they just got here two days ago and aren't used to humans yet, so do you think it would be okay to wait a week or two? Maybe giving them plenty of veggies and the switch to the pellets will improve it, idk. 

This sucks though, I hope there's nothing really wrong with em and that they'll get better!

What most of them look like:









After sleeping last night:









After sleeping the night before:









this is what the babies look like:


----------



## JoJo's Mom (Oct 20, 2012)

Its normal for the poop to vary a bit in color, depending on what they are eating- lots of seeds will make it more green, pellets- more brown. The urates are usually kind of creamy colored, but that can vary to yellowish also. Watch them and see how they look overall for a few days. If they become green or dark you can take them to the avian vet for a check up. Here is a good article on bird droppings: http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/droppings.html Its always a good idea to have them see a vet shortly after bringing them home to test for all kinds of things, just in case. If you haven't you might want to do that anyway. By the way, they are both beautiful birds


----------



## paoputrees (Mar 27, 2014)

Ahh okay... although shouldn't the food never affect the urates? :s and the urates are creamy, but they go into a light green colour not a yellowish colour. I checked them today and they are more greenish than yellowish currently (but not as obvious a green as the poops after last night. Under the yellow lighting in my room it's barely visible. I took it to my bathroom which has better lighting and it was easier to see that it was a light green-yellow)

I wonder what the likelihood of these guys having parrot fever is though. From what I've read, infected parents pass it on to their babies who often end up dying but it didn't specify at what age they would die (though I would assume much early on when the babies are generally weaker). The breeder said he didn't have any call backs from any of his previous buyers (he's sold 12 before these, born into three groups) so would it more likely be liver problems? 

Anyway I'm going to call the vet tomorrow morning and see if I can bring over a sample of their poop to check for it and hopefully for other things too.


----------



## JoJo's Mom (Oct 20, 2012)

Probably the wisest thing to do. Hope all is OK with them, I will say a little prayer


----------



## tasheanne (Dec 31, 2014)

Food should not change the urates. Urates should be white, any colour change usually indicates a problem. The feces component of the droppings changes colour depending what they've eaten and urine can look different colours if the feces colours have "bled" into it but urates should be white. It's the urates vets usually worry about when looking at droppings. Best idea is an avian vet, but bring fresh droppings with you so they can do a gram stain. Good luck.


----------



## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

Those urates do not look normal at all. Best of luck with the vet visit and I hope it's nothing too serious.


----------



## paoputrees (Mar 27, 2014)

My parents were 'too lazy' to take a sample of the droppings to the vet today so I'll have to do it tomorrow in the afternoon...

I came upon a few websites like this one that give supportive care advice for liver problems. I've noticed on the lutino, the back of the tongue is red and I forget where I read it because I've been reading a lot of info, but that red in the back of the tongue and in the whites of the eyes (though it's a lutino with red eyes so idk) means a vitamin A deficiency, but idk if my memory serves right. The other one is skinny too and idk if that counts as anorexia? Because I think they're just small in size (and they eat most of the day)

On the website I linked to, there's some sort of natural aloe detox for the liver. I'm a little skeptical because even though aloe vera is safe for them, I've heard through a friend that there were cases where it wasn't for birds in general (not sure for cockatiels though) and they're babies too. I was wondering what you guys think of using that while I wait a couple weeks for a visit with the birds to the vet? And what do you think of the other things there??


----------



## tasheanne (Dec 31, 2014)

You should go to an avian vet ASAP. This doesn't look normal and needs professional treatment. Your bird will probably poop on the way to the vet, unless the vet is very close. If that's the case and you don't think they'll have time to poop on the way there, just take the sheet of paper at the bottom of their cage. Try to remember which is the freshest. 
Another option is to keep the bird overnight at the vet, they will be able to get a good sample that way, where they will be able to test every component of the droppings (including urine which can be difficult to do otherwise because paper soaks it up) and it doesn't cost very much to have them stay 1 night. Make sure the vet is an avian vet, not just a vet that says "I see birds too!" 
I don't know about the aloe, I assume it's safe but I'm no expert so do more research. I definitely would not wait around to see the vet though, go to the vet ASAP.


----------



## paoputrees (Mar 27, 2014)

tasheanne said:


> You should go to an avian vet ASAP. This doesn't look normal and needs professional treatment. Your bird will probably poop on the way to the vet, unless the vet is very close. If that's the case and you don't think they'll have time to poop on the way there, just take the sheet of paper at the bottom of their cage. Try to remember which is the freshest.
> Another option is to keep the bird overnight at the vet, they will be able to get a good sample that way, where they will be able to test every component of the droppings (including urine which can be difficult to do otherwise because paper soaks it up) and it doesn't cost very much to have them stay 1 night. Make sure the vet is an avian vet, not just a vet that says "I see birds too!"
> I don't know about the aloe, I assume it's safe but I'm no expert so do more research. I definitely would not wait around to see the vet though, go to the vet ASAP.


alright.. I'm just worried about the stress worsening any symptoms even more, but you're right. This morning the Lutino even had diarrhea poop after sleeping, and it was all quite green (although maybe she had somewhat more urine and it meshed together on the paper (put a sheet of wax paper underneath them at night). The other one had the same kind of poop he had before, although now I notice a bit of a smell with him. 

I was going to leave in 30 minutes just to drop off samples of their poop from this morning but I will set up an appointment right now and only go if the earliest appointment is next week. The vet I go to is an avian vet

Edit: just called, the earliest I can get is on Monday at 10am, so I'm going to go drop off the poop samples this morning.

Edit2: The diarrhea looking poop was just temporary. All their poops now look normal in that regard!


----------



## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

Does the poop smell? A fresh 'tiel poop should not smell.

Sometimes diarrhea-like poops can occur in the morning, but if the solid part of the poop is not solid, then it's actual diarrhea and that's another issue altogether.

Best of luck with your vet visit, and please keep us updated on your babies.


----------



## paoputrees (Mar 27, 2014)

Yes, Pat (the grey)'s poop smell just slightly sometimes, when they are fresh. 

The diarrhea that morning was definitely not actual diarrhea though, Mat (the lutino) must have made that poop sometime in the night and drank more before sleeping, and the urine must have been absorbed into the solid part of the poop because the wax paper doesn't absorb it. Thanks! And I will keep you up to date


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

It looks to me like the poops with the off-color urates are all dried ones. Is that correct? It's perfectly normal for urates to turn a more off-white or even yellow/greenish color as the poop dries and the color sort of bleeds together. It's more important for you to monitor what the fresh poops look like, because that's the best indicator of their health.


----------



## tasheanne (Dec 31, 2014)

enigma731 said:


> It looks to me like the poops with the off-color urates are all dried ones. Is that correct? It's perfectly normal for urates to turn a more off-white or even yellow/greenish color as the poop dries and the color sort of bleeds together. It's more important for you to monitor what the fresh poops look like, because that's the best indicator of their health.


The first one on the toilet paper looks pretty fresh


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

tasheanne said:


> The first one on the toilet paper looks pretty fresh


The fresh one looks normal to me.


----------



## paoputrees (Mar 27, 2014)

enigma731 said:


> It looks to me like the poops with the off-color urates are all dried ones. Is that correct? It's perfectly normal for urates to turn a more off-white or even yellow/greenish color as the poop dries and the color sort of bleeds together. It's more important for you to monitor what the fresh poops look like, because that's the best indicator of their health.


The last two images they are mostly dried, but the picture of the fresh ones aren't the most accurate - my camera makes it look more white than it is. The colour in their fresh droppings is noticeable otherwise and in better lighting

I don't think having consistently green coloured urates (in a single dropping) is normal even when dried though. This morning one of them made poops with even greener urates than the picture I first showed. I'm really eager for the vet! I do hope they make it through the stress (I'm sure they will but still slightly worried of it worsening their condition before the meds would kick in :0)


----------



## paoputrees (Mar 27, 2014)

I will get a better picture of how they are in better lighting sometime today or tomorrow. The colour hasn't changed much and is still a little creamy but their daytime poops have not worsened noticeably - but anyway, today I went to the vet and the gram stain for their poop is good, and the general check up on them was all good! Mat (lutino) was extremely afraid so we decided to leave her alone for blood tests and only took Pat... who started bruising I think they said, so they had to abort taking blood from him. The blood work is what would tell me about their liver or possible chlamydia so that's a little bit of a let down, but in general otherwise they are healthy. 

The vet told me just to keep an eye on them and keep doing what I'm doing with the diet. It's possible the poops will get better after more time on the healthier diet. They also said that since they grew up together and have the same symptoms, it's probably enough to do tests on either one and then treat both if chlamydia shows up (the bill I would have paid for everything done on both was way high).

I will go back to the vet in 2-4 weeks maybe with both birds, and depending on how cooperative they are I will get blood done for one or both. The vet said she's not too concerned because the urates are the only symptom (but that birds do hide their symptoms and it might go either way), so I should just keep an eye on it until then.

It was good to hear that their body felt healthy/normal though! As I had other concerns and now after asking the vet every question I had, it's all down to just this one. Forget when the results for the second dropping test for parasites and such will come in, but to lower the cost they took a fresh sample of Pat's dropping. What I think I'll do is wait if it remains stable in colour and if they still act as perky as they do, and if it worsens I will schedule another appointment asap and do the test of Mat if it's earlier than two weeks. Hope she would be okay having the test done on her if needed!

Update: Tried my best to take a good picture. Compare the urate colour to the white toilet paper in the background - there's no shadow on it, it's just consistently a tinge greenish now

Mat's (she had mostly pellets in the morning):









Pat's (his I found is actually greener than before :1):


----------



## tasheanne (Dec 31, 2014)

This first photo the feces look redish, is that just the camera or the pellets she eats? I think it's important to get the bloods done to be honest. Sounds like the vet hasn't got a clue what it is and you're not much closer to finding out at this stage. that in itself is concerning since this probably isn't nothing. I'm glad they're not bad enough to seriously alarm the vet but I still think this needs further investigating for sure


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

It still looks within the range of normal, in my experience. I think I would recommend that you get the bloodwork done since you're concerned and it's good to have a baseline anyway, but I wouldn't be surprised if it comes back normal.


----------



## paoputrees (Mar 27, 2014)

tasheanne said:


> This first photo the feces look redish, is that just the camera or the pellets she eats? I think it's important to get the bloods done to be honest. Sounds like the vet hasn't got a clue what it is and you're not much closer to finding out at this stage. that in itself is concerning since this probably isn't nothing. I'm glad they're not bad enough to seriously alarm the vet but I still think this needs further investigating for sure


Oh, it was the combination of pellets and lot's of carrots. They're back to green now after eating seeds c: 
I agree and for two weeks they said we shouldn't try getting blood work from Pat again, since the area bruised a tiny bit when they tried yesterday. Mat is seriously freaked out by it and I really worry she would hurt herself while they take her blood, or get so stressed she gets sick with something else. Yesterday was just the basic physical exam with her and when the vet tried to get her from her cage she literally would not stop thrashing about in the cage for 5 whole minutes. When being examined she would also move around in their hand, so I wish I could just get the blood test done now, but I feel it might be better to wait those 2 weeks - unless I see something worsening more. Then I would go and get Mat's blood done... I know it's not ideal, but I know how crazy she would get coming back to the vet's office so soon after the first visit... :1 So I don't want to risk her getting physically hurt if I can

edit: You know what, I will see maybe how Mat behaves by the end of the week. Maybe if she is a lot tamer then I will bring her to the vet for the blood. Pat is really friendly and didn't struggle at all when handled by the vet. I'll see if I can somehow bring her to that level xD



enigma731 said:


> It still looks within the range of normal, in my experience. I think I would recommend that you get the bloodwork done since you're concerned and it's good to have a baseline anyway, but I wouldn't be surprised if it comes back normal.


If it does come back normal, I would be so relieved! But yesterday when I came home from work, Mat actually made two droppings where the urates were almost completely white!! So I do think they have something going on, but it may be able to heal because of the diet I've been giving them as well.

I sent my vet's office an email about using aloe detox. I really think it will help them a lot from everything I've read about it - but they've yet to reply to me


----------



## paoputrees (Mar 27, 2014)

Happy to report that Mat's urates have mostly gone back to a complete white for all of the past three days, although occasionally they come out with just with the very slightest and barely noticeable tinge of a green (but I believe it is normal) so whatever she had must have improved a whole lot because I remember her droppings being worse than Pat's before.

Pat's have gone a little worse, which sucks because with him I have to wait almost another 2 weeks before I can try having him blood tested again. But he seems to be doing great otherwise! Been training him to fly better so he can get some exercise in and it's working well. Today once the lawn mowers in my neighbourhood get outta here I plan to take them in their cage and bring them out for some fresh air and sunshine c:

Here's how Pat's droppings look now during the daytime (got a little squished on the paper):









And these are Matty's almost all day:









Honestly, with Mat's improvement and with me being stuck not doing anything but giving them my best care at home, I feel pretty positive that Pat will get better too. He was better than Mat in the beginning, and I think his experience with the attempted blood test may have stressed him more than it looked and that may be why his are worse at the moment. I think them being related and growing up the same way etc there's a pretty good chance Patty will make it out of this too c: I'm very happy, although of course will continue to keep a good eye on them!

UPDATE: the vet just called me with results from their second fecal test (the one that has to be very fresh). She found one flagellate (parasite I think) in Pat's dropping, and wants to take another even fresher sample tomorrow morning! She explained that since she only found one, it's not technically considered an infection, but that they can spread into the liver and cause damage there. After doing some reading, the symptoms - which include other minor things I passed off before - do seem to line up pretty well and I hope that this is really the cause of the green urates, and not something in combination. Wish them luck tomorrow!


----------

