# Sedatives



## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Have you ever given sedatives to your tiel?
Last year the vet suggested either sedatives or a brace for the plucking problem (we had excluded an illness due to what I told her, namely that he is very healthy, hyperactive and that the problem has been going on for a long time, so it is obviously behavioural). I know that a brace would be a torture for my boy, so I am very reluctant to select that option.
Unfortunately the problem got a bit worse lately and I am worried. His health is a good as ever, but I wouldn't like the plucking problem to get even worse now.
He will be 8 in August and is extremely active and lively, probably like a youngster.
Would a sedative help? Or would he become a coach potato?
I love him so much and want the very best for him.
Thanks for your opinion!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

It really depends on the bird. There aren't any other alternates to sedatives? I feel like that's an extreme measure.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

The only alternative she mentioned was a brace around his neck, but I know for sure it would drive him crazy...  I have also tried a spray that has a bitter taste and should discourage plucking but it doesn't take notice (he doesn't like the spray, but he doesn't seem to mind the bitter taste...


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## EllenD (Oct 9, 2016)

What about trying a soft collar, like a fleece e-collar? They are a lot more comfortable than a brace or a hard collar, but they still keep them from being able to pluck. I really don't like giving birds sedatives or narcotics, not so much because it will "turn him into a couch potato", which it will, trust me, but because it is do dangerous due to their sensitive respiratory systems.

"Dance like nobody's watching..."


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

I had made one last year, but he tore it off in about 20 secs. It had velcro and I assume he is too strong and determined for velcro...
I also saw a really pretty one in the USA, but it had velcro too. While the collar was not very expensive (about $25), postage to Australia was over $30, which is a bit expensive for something so small. without knowing if he is going to tear it off...


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Have you considered something like chamomile tea? It has sedative effects but is generally considered to be mild. You'd need to do some research on it to find out whether it might suit your needs.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

What specific sedative did your vet have in mind? We really need that information to talk about effectiveness and side effects intelligently. You can view part of an avian medicine book published in 2015 at https://books.google.com/books?id=L...drugs that have been used in parrots"&f=false

It talks about psychoactive drugs starting at the bottom of page 219. It starts talking about specific drugs at the bottom of page 221, breaking them into five categories where the first one and possibly the second one seem like they would be the most relevant. There are a number of different types within each category, and they probably have different levels of effectiveness and side effects. If we have the name of a specific drug we can research it to see how good or bad it looks.

Edited to add: they start talking about feather destructive behavior on page 226 and get into treatment on page 231. In terms of drugs, they suggest antihistamines (which seems to be a common treatment for plucking problems), and on page 233 they mention other drugs that can be used.

I'm not sure exactly why antihistamines would be helpful. Birds can have allergies just like humans can, and antihistamines would be useful if the plucking was caused by an undiagnosed allergy. I don't know whether there are other reasons that antihistamines might help.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Yes, I could try chamomile tea. Maybe one bag for 1 liter of water? I guess it must be more diluted than for humans.

The vet didn't mention any specific sedatives because I was still observing his behaviour and trying other options. She just said if nothing else works we can try either sedatives or a brace. 

I think antihistamines could indeed be an option too. He might be a bit itchy because I have a small USB fan connected to my computer and he likes to jump in front of it and enjoy the breeze, sometimes spreading his wings.

Thanks for the link to the book!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> I have a small USB fan connected to my computer and he likes to jump in front of it and enjoy the breeze, sometimes spreading his wings.


Or maybe he just likes to pretend that he's soaring like an eagle!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Antihistamines are sometimes used to treat anxiety in humans because of the sedating side effects. They're not effective for everyone, but they can be a good option for people who are unable to tolerate SSRIs.

There is some good evidence for using SSRIs in birds to treat plucking, like they'd be used to treat compulsive behavior in humans. Personally if I was going to consider psych meds for one of my birds, I'd want either a tricyclic antidepressant (like amitriptyline) or one of the SSRIs that's proven beneficial for OCD in people (like sertraline). I haven't done this for my plucker yet, but I am seriously considering it.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

enigma731 I'm glad you showed up! You know more about medical stuff than anybody else here, and you have a reason to look into this particular subject.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I actually recently had this discussion with my vet, who has had good results with psych meds in birds. We discussed using either an SSRI or gabapentin (which helps with neuropathies) for both Odette (my plucker) and Roo (my stress-puker). We'll see if I end up acting on it, since we're going to be moving cross-country again in a few months. But I'd definitely be comfortable with trying it in my birds. Correctly dosed psych meds should help the bird feel calmer without being overly-sedating.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Correctly dosed psych meds should help the bird feel calmer without being overly-sedating.


That's good to know! While I was looking for information on the subject, I came across a an old medical book that said Valium could make a bird so drowsy it fell off the perch. We definitely don't want that to happen :lol: but I have heard of birds taking Valium successfully so presumably it doesn't affect all of them that way.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

tielfan said:


> Or maybe he just likes to pretend that he's soaring like an eagle!


Oh yes, the breeze up there in the sky is so beautiful. He must really enjoy pretending to be an eagle!


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

enigma731 said:


> Correctly dosed psych meds should help the bird feel calmer without being overly-sedating.


I am glad you showed up too, enigma! I will definitely discuss what you said with my vet!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

EllenD said:


> What about trying a soft collar, like a fleece e-collar? They are a lot more comfortable than a brace or a hard collar, but they still keep them from being able to pluck. I really don't like giving birds sedatives or narcotics, not so much because it will "turn him into a couch potato", which it will, trust me, but because it is do dangerous due to their sensitive respiratory systems.
> 
> "Dance like nobody's watching..."


I'm curious, do you have personal experience with managing psych meds (you said "trust me," which seems to imply that you do)? What do these meds have to do with the respiratory system?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

littletiel said:


> I am glad you showed up too, enigma! I will definitely discuss what you said with my vet!


For what it's worth, I'd want to use a med that's targeted toward reducing compulsive behaviors, which is why I recommended something like sertraline (Zoloft on-brand), as opposed to a benzodiazepine (like Valium). That would theoretically treat the underlying behavior in addition to having a calming effect, whereas benzos literally just sedate. (I'm not a fan of benzos for anything except, like, one-time dosing for surgical procedures. Not even for people.)


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

enigma731 said:


> For what it's worth, I'd want to use a med that's targeted toward reducing compulsive behaviors, which is why I recommended something like sertraline (Zoloft on-brand), as opposed to a benzodiazepine (like Valium). That would theoretically treat the underlying behavior in addition to having a calming effect, whereas benzos literally just sedate. (I'm not a fan of benzos for anything except, like, one-time dosing for surgical procedures. Not even for people.)


Do you think he might be a bit depressed?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

littletiel said:


> Do you think he might be a bit depressed?


Maybe, but I think it's more likely that he's anxious. The meds with the best efficacy for anxiety in humans actually are antidepressants, which is why I'm suggesting them for plucking. (In fact, there's a big debate about whether anxiety and depression are separate diagnoses at all or just variable symptoms of the same disorder.)


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

enigma731 said:


> Maybe, but I think it's more likely that he's anxious.


Yes, I think he is a bit anxious and edgy at times.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

If only they could tell us, right?


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

enigma731 said:


> If only they could tell us, right?


He would just like to be cuddled non-stop. He is almost 8 and is still like a little boy who wants to be with mum all the time and if mum has to do something else or goes out he becomes anxious and plucks himself.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Yes, I think he is a bit anxious and edgy at times.


You said at the beginning that he was hyperactive. Enigma will obviously know a lot more about it than I do, but to me this suggests that his mental chemistry is revved up in general and he might be pumping a lot of adrenaline. 



> What do these meds have to do with the respiratory system?


I had wondered about that too. I've never heard of the sensitive respiratory system being a problem with anything but airborne toxins (fumes).


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

littletiel said:


> He would just like to be cuddled non-stop. He is almost 8 and is still like a little boy who wants to be with mum all the time and if mum has to do something else or goes out he becomes anxious and plucks himself.


I wonder if this is separation anxiety rather than hyperactivity? I think meds would be beneficial, but it also sounds like he could use some better coping skills for when he has to be on his own. Does he play with anything independently? I'm wondering if you could use some behavioral strategies like you might for taming/other training, but instead reward/reinforce independent play. That might help him learn some healthier alternatives to plucking.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

tielfan said:


> You said at the beginning that he was hyperactive. Enigma will obviously know a lot more about it than I do, but to me this suggests that his mental chemistry is revved up in general and he might be pumping a lot of adrenaline.


I wish I had a walk-in aviary (you know, like those you have to pay for to enter! They are so cool. Really huge, and the birds can fly like outside and release energy, but at the same time they can't fly away.
Like this one: http://www.canberrawalkinaviary.com.au/


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