# she just laid :D



## bahamut347 (Feb 28, 2011)

hi all. . . . one of my tiel pairs(i have 2 pairs) were mating last week,and this weekend she was the most time in the nestbox. . . now today i went to peek the nest,i saw an egg  . . . . what's +- the time interval between the eggs being laid?
and how can i clean the cage without her getting too stressed?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Every other day is when eggs should be laid, she'll probably start sitting on it after the 2nd or 3rd are laid. I wouldn't think that cleaning the cage should stress her too much especially if she's in the box.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

eggs are laid every second day so example: first monday, second wednesday etc...., you can hold off on cleaning the cage for a bit, and when you do clean the cage try not to take to long and disturb her, also now that she has laid her first egg, if you havent already started then start conditioning them to you inspecting the nestbox, if your pair doesnt really care about you entering the cage then doing quick cleanups shouldnt be a problem, i have one pair that couldnt care less, i have even moved thier cage while they were sitting on eggs and it didnt bug them, and then i have another pair that when breeding the entire cage is off limits without thick gloves. It really depends on your pair.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

i it just me or does that egg look really small., I guess its just not zoomed in close (lol)


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

It looks longer than some but then again I had a hen lay an egg that was oblong and it hatched just fine.


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## bahamut347 (Feb 28, 2011)

it's not really zoomed. . . . .
the other pair started mating too. . . . . . . .what if the other female fights for the nest?or destroys her eggs?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Put up a 2nd nest...whichever hen is more dominant is the one that will win the nest. And she wouldn't destroy the eggs she'd probably accept them as her own. But this would cause your first hen to lay more. So put up a 2nd nest and whichever hen comes out on top, the other will take over nest #2.


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## bahamut347 (Feb 28, 2011)

thanks i will take ur advice in consideration,i need to plan a new place for the new nest,because i'm a bit space limited


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

How big is the cage? When I was space limited I put one box on one side and one box on the other and the pairs didn't seem to mind.


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## bahamut347 (Feb 28, 2011)

the small cage is a temporary one for quarantining a small cage. . . . . . . i guess i should put the nest in the other side


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

i wouldnt breed 2 pairs in that cage as if your not pulling the chicks for handfeeding and they all fledge into that cage thats a lot of birds, also do you have a cage for when your handfed babies get to the fledgling age to go into.


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## bahamut347 (Feb 28, 2011)

i'm trying to get a bigger cage,i don't feel like paying 150euros(+-200$) for a cage. . .


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

in that picture it shows 4 birds in one cage, so thats 2 females and 2 males, and in that small of a cage there might be a lot of nest box squables its usually best to have 2 nest boxes up prior to eggs being laid that way the birds have already dealt with what nest box they get and are then able to just settle down, the second cage has one bird whats up with that. and personally it might not be the best cage but for one pair that isnt going to be raising chicks to long that might have been the sarter cage.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

Is this your first time at breeding, Cause before even trying to breed your cockatiels you needed to take in cage situation, nestbox situation, are you going to hand feed, do you have a brooder, a gram scale, a digital thermometer, a fledgling cage. these are all things that you need to ask yourself before even setting up your pair, your worried about 150 euros for one more cage but what about the basics you need to handfeed, thats not including handfeeding formula, and syringes (or other feeding instrument) do you know how to handfeed, if not is there someone around who can teach you? are you planning on parent rasing those birds, if yes that cage is not acceptable for 2 pairs. These are all things we have done prior to our first breeding season, and in the long run most of these are one time purchases and do not need to be rebought, until you have more pairs, ive been breeding for 5 years i have 2 brooders, 3 breeding cages, 2 fledgling cages, 2 travel cages and my birds rest in an aviary that i designed myself, i have a gram scale and 2 thermometers, all these no matter what it cost were bought prior to the first season. with 4 or 5 birds minimum you should have 3 cages.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

One last thought, you breed 2 pairs in that cage, your lucky it all works out fine. Were are you gonna store the babies when they need to be in a cage and starting to wean,?


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## bahamut347 (Feb 28, 2011)

the small cage actually has 2birds. . .but they'r not for me. . .i'm just keeping them while the person is away . . . .like i said before,i'm trying to get a huge cage,my father's boss has one huge empty cage,and he's trying to persuade him to offer me. . . . . . i don't think i'm going to breed tiels,my cousins want cockatiels,so i'm thinking in offering most of the chicks to them


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

Ok those cockatiels that are in that other cage have they been around your birds before if not they should not be next to that cage, you need to treat it like a brand new cockatiel brought into the family and quarentee them, does you cousin have a cage for them and for your information an average clutch can range from 2-5 eggs each, mine decided to dump 9 on me this year but only 7 hatched. i have 3 in the brooder 4 in the nestbox and a fledgling in a cage, but its a different pairs chick and its 5 weeks old, you have to know that if you dont plan on breeding again y are you letting both pairs go now, are you going to allow the parents to raise them because when you look at that cage that has 4 birds think about how it will look with 6-8 more birds once the chicks reach 4-5 weeks of age average weaning is 8-10 weeks old so that is 4-7 weeks of 10-12 or more birds in that cage hun, that is not good, can you find a second hand cage that will serve your purpose, though i do recommend at least 1 more cage than pairs minimum.


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## bahamut347 (Feb 28, 2011)

yeah i thought about it,i'ts a lot of birds for a cage like that. . . . .i'm trying to get a huge cage ASAP. . .


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

ok just know that once its decided on nestboxes if you cant remove that second pair that once mommy and daddy sit tight on those eggs you have 18-21 days before those chicks hatch.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

The only solution for that is to either boil the eggs as they are laid and then lower your birds daytime hours until you can remove the nestbox, your cousin can get tiels at another time, when you are more prepared to deal with breeders. or get a 2nd cage to put the other pair in but dont let them breed. otherwise your going to be overrun with chicks because usually around the 4-5 week mark of age in the chicks, mommy and daddy will start a second clutch.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

This is the cage im using as a fledgling cage, but it can be converted to a breeding cage as it has 2 nest box entrances that are blocked off right now and i can seperate by putting wire mesh in the center or even a piece of plywood. And as my chicks are pulled at 2 weeks of age there is only a maximum of 4 adult birds with plenty of room between nestboxes, it has 4 food dishes and 2 water dishes it has 3 enty doors and even opens on top, for putting in plywood, right now it doesnt have much in it cause most of the perches are in my old breeding cages, but will be moved into this one next season as im nearing the end, i have 1 pair on its first clutch, 1 pair on its 2nd clutch (they are aviary bound) and 1 pair im hoping to pull before they breed again as though it is first clutch of season they are raising 7 chicks, and i have 1 pair in the waiting cage, bulking them up and making sure they are at their peak condition. the cockatiel in the cage is my 5 week old singleton.


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## huson (Feb 23, 2009)

Wow I really feel bad for bahamut347 because of people like Nwoodrow.

I hope he still dare to ask for advice on this forum. 

TO: bahamut347

Good luck on your cockatiel breeding. Whatever happens just remember to take it step by step. Just grab a paper and make a list of things that you need and then prioritize your needs. The solve your problems one by one. I hope you are not discourage by Nwoodrow replies. If you still have question, please do ask for advice. I'm sure there are more advisors who can give better recommendation to you. Take care. 

TO: Nwoodrow

Honestly, I'm really getting tired to see your posting on other's thread. You keep on telling others about your amazing success, blah blah blah. I agree that Bahamut347 did have a bad start, but I'm sure he will find a way to solve his situation sooner or later. I'm sure he will learn something out of the whole cockatiel breeding thing. Everyone learns from their mistakes and no everyone plan every single detail like you. Life never goes according to what we plan. If yours does, congradz to you, but that doesn't apply to everyone. So please stop bombard people's thread with your discouragement!!! or at least rephrase your replies to make is like less offending~~~


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

bahamut347 said:


> i'm trying to get a bigger cage,i don't feel like paying 150euros(+-200$) for a cage. . .


You or someone else can alway build something, a few 2x4's a couple nails and some 1/2 inch poultry wire is sufficient. Or even rabbit wire and J clips. You can use cookie sheets as a tray or even move them outside for the summer. I have to agree that cage is barely large enough for 1 bird, much less 4 and however many babies. I sure hope you can come up with a larger cage quickly. Your birds will be much happier if you did. With something that small, you may end up with a few dead birds. Even in a fairly large aviary, like I have, pair squabbles ended up in babies dieing. 

You really need something wide enough for your birds to sit side by side and be able to all spread their wings without touching each other or the sides of the cage. Good luck though and keep us updated either way, you may surprise us and have two clutches in one box after all.


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## huson (Feb 23, 2009)

Mentha said:


> You or someone else can alway build something, a few 2x4's a couple nails and some 1/2 inch poultry wire is sufficient. Or even rabbit wire and J clips. You can use cookie sheets as a tray or even move them outside for the summer. I have to agree that cage is barely large enough for 1 bird, much less 4 and however many babies. I sure hope you can come up with a larger cage quickly. Your birds will be much happier if you did. With something that small, you may end up with a few dead birds. Even in a fairly large aviary, like I have, pair squabbles ended up in babies dieing.
> 
> You really need something wide enough for your birds to sit side by side and be able to all spread their wings without touching each other or the sides of the cage. Good luck though and keep us updated either way, you may surprise us and have two clutches in one box after all.


Great constructive comment~~~~


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

im nt giving bad advice, its just unless your pepared to breed you shouldnt.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Huson attacking nwoodrow won't help bahamut347 in dealing with the situation at hand which is the coming babies and not a lot of room. nwoodrow is trying to give good advice and good ideas on how to remedy the situation. There is nothing wrong with that. Its a big learning process and no matter how experienced one is, we are all trying to learn. 

bahamut347, you don't need a huge cage to breed in. What I started with last year was two decent sized cages big enough to hold a pair each. I'll attach a picture, its a copy from the store of the cage I used. This one has a divider in it, I just took it out so they could be together. Its the bare minimum but at the time, this cage was only $30 and all I had could afford or have the space for. I attached the nest box to the side and they were fine. These cages can be stacked one on top of the other for more space if needed.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I'm not sure if you're in the UK or not, but these came up when I searched for breeding cages, they are well under 200 euros. I would get the second one so I could put up a cockatiel box instead of a budgie box. They also look like they would stack.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

I'm sorry if my advice sounded harsh, i really do hope you are successful, but there are 3 possible senarios if you do keep your pairs in breeding season mode and move them at a later date.
Seneriao 1: everything is good, both parents happily accept the move and continue to brood or raise their clutches.
Senario 2: both pairs up and abandon the eggs, due to the stress of the move.
Senario 3: and this is the worst case, one female is in the process of making or laying an egg, is stressed by the move and gets egg bound.
Moving Pairs around when they are in egg laying/breeding mode can be very upsetting for you and for your birds. If you plan on moving your birds at a later date when you can aquire another cage, then why not just start them fresh in that cage.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

nwoodrow said:


> I'm sorry if my advice sounded harsh, i really do hope you are successful, but there are 3 possible senarios if you do keep your pairs in breeding season mode and move them at a later date.
> Seneriao 1: everything is good, both parents happily accept the move and continue to brood or raise their clutches.
> Senario 2: both pairs up and abandon the eggs, due to the stress of the move.
> Senario 3: and this is the worst case, one female is in the process of making or laying an egg, is stressed by the move and gets egg bound.
> Moving Pairs around when they are in egg laying/breeding mode can be very upsetting for you and for your birds. If you plan on moving your birds at a later date when you can aquire another cage, then why not just start them fresh in that cage.


Nobody said to move the pair with eggs. Since the second pair has yet to lay an egg, she has just enough time to move the second pair before they do. Although the hen may be stressed, even if the second pair does lay eggs in the box, it would still be better to move them. The eggs can stay with the first pair in a bind. Once the second pair is established, she can move the eggs if she feels the need to.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

thats my hope to mentha that everything goes fine, that she's able to move the second pair and have healthy babies., but if she's breeding to give chicks to cousins, it would be wiser to breed only one pair, and if shes not handfeeding theres a very good chance once those first chicks fledge the parents will already have new eggs or be starting then.

"bahamut347 posted earlier: i don't think i'm going to breed tiels,my cousins want cockatiels,so i'm thinking in offering most of the chicks to them"


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I do agree that some people need to research all that is entailed BEFORE breeding birds, but sometimes our birds thwart our best intentions. It's just how things are and we need to make the best of the situation. I know when I bred my cockatiels last year, I had no idea what I was doing. I thought I did, having had worked for two bird breeders and breeding and raising doves and poultry, but to do it myself was foreign to me. I was glad for the experience I did have because suddenly a lot of it made sense all of a sudden, still it was a crash course all the way. Luckily, I raised 10 beautiful babies, two of which I still have.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

That is true there are pairs that surprise us with an egg on the bottom of the cage, and we have to deal with it, but to put one nest box up in a cage with 2 pairs and hope for the best , what were they thinking would happen.


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## bahamut347 (Feb 28, 2011)

Mentha did quote me well about the cousins thing. . . .and i'm a HE,not she xD. . . 
i do not want to be a pro breeder like you,i wanted the birds because i love birds and dogs( i wanted to be a vet some years ago,i'm 21) and i enjoy their company,not because i want to breed a hundrer birds. . .the nest was my mom's idea, i had to deal with it, and yes,i was surprised by the eggs being laid so soon,but what would i do? stop her from breeding?it's the miracle of life,we gotta deal with it, i'm sure no-one likes when a girl aborts her pregnancy right? i wouldn't stop her from breeding,its only 4-5 chicks i would give to familiars that keep asking me for birds. . .. . .geez. . .and yes,i separated the other pair


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

Ok, im glad to hear you seperated the other birds, and im not saying that you shouldnt try breeding, it is a wonderful experience, and i hope that you are able to enjoy the full extent of it, if you are able to pull the chicks when they are 2- 2 1/2 weeks of age for hand feeding and then put your pair on the long nights it will greatly reduce the chance of your pair double clutching. also putting a nest box on, i have pairs that eggs are in nest box 8 days later, and i have some that take 20 days it depends on your pair.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*i wouldn't stop her from breeding, its only 4-5 chicks i would give to familiars that keep asking me for birds. . .. . .geez. . .and yes,i separated the other pair*
*----------------------------------------------------*

I have stayed out of this thread...BUT in reading thru it you have received some good advice. The above statement concerns me though...meaning the words _* its only 4-5 chicks*_ Sadly you multiply that times 100 or a 1,000 times per year from the mindset of novice people trying to breed birds, with no research, little experience and I sit hear and wonder how *many baby tiels died* today from needless deaths. Or how many tiels are added to the pet trade thgat are undersized form an inexperienced breeder not knowing how to pair compatible mutations together to improve the next generation. Part of the problem why the average pet bird is 75-85 grams is because of indiscriminate pairings. Ir how many babies are sold that are not completely weaned from first time handfeeders, and are bought from first time pet owners that don't know what to look for when buying a bird, or what to do if the baby relapses.

Breeding should not be encouraged ordone just because you have a bird, want babies, or just because.


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## bahamut347 (Feb 28, 2011)

my life doesn't allow me to be a breeder. . . . . even tough i know how to handfeed,because one of my birds is handfed. . . . i am a full time electrotechnician,so i work all day,not everytime i lunch home, and there are some times that i'm away from town for a couple days. . . .


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

bahamut347 said:


> my life doesn't allow me to be a breeder. . . . . even tough i know how to handfeed,because one of my birds is handfed. . . . i am a full time electrotechnician,so i work all day,not everytime i lunch home, and there are some times that i'm away from town for a couple days. . . .


based on this post, you really should think of whats fair to your self and the birds you should stop this breeding process by putting them on long nights and seperate pairs if that doesnt work, it takes a lot of commitment with breeding, and you need to be home constantly to catch emergencies quickly.


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## bahamut347 (Feb 28, 2011)

but i told a while ago that i don't want to be breeder remember? i'm simply letting her breed this clutch, one day i will gather better conditions, but right now i simply can't. . .cages are really expensive here,just like brooders and many bird supllies, i can't afford all that now,maybe in 2 years,if my life stabilizes,i will have money and time. . .right now i'm just simply letting her breed these eggs


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

hun, it wont just be these eggs, when these chicks reach 4-5 weeks old mom and dad will have either already laid more or just beginning and it will continue until you seperate them or your hen dies from over laying


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

bahamut347 said:


> Mentha did quote me well about the cousins thing. . . .and i'm a HE,not she xD. .


I'm sorry, I just assumed you were a woman. Names sometimes just don't give a lot of info on that matter. :blush:

I agree start with the long night treatment, maybe mom and dad will not lay another clutch if they are on long nights. They should still take care of babies though. You really need to have a back up plan in case of mom and dad not being able to take care of babies, or just refusal to. Is your mom willing to hand feed since it was her idea?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

bahamut347 said:


> but i told a while ago that i don't want to be breeder remember? i'm simply letting her breed this clutch, one day i will gather better conditions, but right now i simply can't. . .cages are really expensive here,just like brooders and many bird supllies, i can't afford all that now,maybe in 2 years,if my life stabilizes,i will have money and time. . .right now i'm just simply letting her breed these eggs


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And this is how there winds up being excess birds (like dogs and cats) that get passed along, and wind up in rescue situations. If a person is to breed their goal shold be to try to improve the next generation. If a breeder does not know what this means they really should not be setting up pairs.

As to cage expence...it it far cheaper to invest in some more cages than to put yourself and the birds in a situation where things can go wrong and there is harm or death to the babies and/or parents.


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