# Wing amputation



## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Long story short, my female tiel Candy has been picking at her feathers and chewing, overpreening and plucking(mainly around wings) for as long as I have had her. 
A trip to the avian vet three months ago - given antibiotics, antifungal cream, and painkillers (all her blood work was apparently fine, but she had an injury to her left wing, which I suspect was self mutilation). Second trip - different antibiotic and cream. So far, no improvement. She has, in fact, started chewing on the top part of her wing now ("shoulder") causing it to bleed...
I am worried she may have to have her wing amputated (the vet mentioned it as the last resort, but since she is not improving it may happen ). Anyone has gone through this kind of procedure with their bird? I don't want to put her through this. And what is the cost of it?? Will she survive and have a decent life after something like that? Help...


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

What about having her wear a pancho or soft collar? Many people find that solution to work great for pluckers and mutilators. I'm not a vet, but wing amputation just seems incredibly drastic.


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## SoCalTiels (Oct 8, 2013)

I assume the vet only mentioned it as the last of all possible options. Wings are incredibly important for a bird's balance and mobility. Even a bird with clipped wings can make it across the room, they aren't graceful but they can do it. Without a wing, the poor thing would just drop and not even be able to put its wings out to slow the fall. Please look at every possible solution before ever considering that :/ anything would be better. I know plucking can be a severe problem, but it's not like dogs where if they lose a leg, they learn to walk on three. Wings are pretty much all a bird have.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

SoCalTiels said:


> I assume the vet only mentioned it as the last of all possible options. Wings are incredibly important for a bird's balance and mobility. Even a bird with clipped wings can make it across the room, they aren't graceful but they can do it. Without a wing, the poor thing would just drop and not even be able to put its wings out to slow the fall. Please look at every possible solution before ever considering that :/ anything would be better. I know plucking can be a severe problem, but it's not like dogs where if they lose a leg, they learn to walk on three. Wings are pretty much all a bird have.


I totally agree with you. The problem is, Candy has some "old" injury on the joint of her wing which healed but is causing her pain and discomfort, from what I understood. Therefore, she keeps picking and picking. I suspect the "injury" was self inflicted with overpreening as I don't really remember her having any kind of injury to her wing from falling and such... The vet showed me how far she can stretch her wing, it's different than the other. Also, she is missing some muscle tissue there (chewed up). It's all very upsetting...


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Yeah, I agree with SoCalTiels. Have you ever heard of Ella the cockatoo? She is a severe mutilator and was scheduled to be euthenized. Thankfully, she was adopted and now wears all sorts of cute outfits to keep her from mutilating. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ella-the-Goffins-Cockatoo/207620245925206

Here is another example of what I mean:










(Found here)

I understand the healed wing injury causes her discomfort, but...I would get a second opinion from another vet. Maybe there is a way to help ease that discomfort? Not saying your vet doesn't know what she is doing, but this is a BIG decision and I personally would want multiple opinions...


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

He is the only certified avian vet around here. He did say that wing amputation is the last thing if nothing else works. I should try a little outfit like the Grey in the picture is wearing, that looks cool. It just worries me that she is in constant pain. I can see her wing trembling at times.
I really don't want her to lose her wing, it's just so terrible for a bird to lose such an important part of her. 
I have another appointment on Tuesday with the vet, so we'll see what he says... Honestly, I just don't know where her condition is all going...


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

So sorry you and Candy are going through this.  I hope the best solution for her can be found.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Thank you, Garrance. I hope so too. She is just the sweetest cockatiel, loves to be with me, likes her beak rubbed, very obedient and even tempered. I am not going to lie though, the thought of euthanasia did cross my mind if the worst comes to worst, better than her suffering every day. However, I simply cannot do it. I just can't imagine leaving her someplace and coming home without her, it would destroy me


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

I can only imagine how difficult this all is. I hope that you are able to work something out and it doesn’t come to having to amputate the wing. I do know of a few special needs birds/disabled birds, who have adapted very well to their special needs/disability and continued to be their happy selves and managed. They are more resilient than we probably think, too.


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## crafti142 (Dec 27, 2013)

Oh, I was so sad for you and Candy. I can understand why she is picking at her wing if it is sore. I hope that you can find a way forward. If you don' t mind me asking - how old is she?


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

She is turning 3 in April. So, still a very young bird. She has had over preening issues since I bought her though. I remember, from day one, she was picking on herself and I thought it was strange. The first month or two I had her, I took her to a different vet, just to rule giardia and such. The vet didn't find anything wrong with her. It is possible it's a psychological issue, but as you know, with plucking and over preening it's always hard to tell.


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## crafti142 (Dec 27, 2013)

Oh, so she is still quite young. I hope that if you try the collar others have suggested, that it works. My thoughts are with you.


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

That must be incredibly frustrating & heartbreaking....I felt very emotional reading this.
If its any help and the worst case becomes a reality....I visited a bird sanctuary about a year ago & there were about 20-30 birds of all species in a special enclosure, and they had all suffered serious injuries, & had various amputations.
There were a number there with single wing amputations & even one with both wings removed. They all seems incredibly happy & content....
I spent an hour or so there watching them because it was so compelling & inspiring to see how they had adapted.
So although amputation would obviously be a sole & last resort, you may be surprised how with a little love & some adaptation your tiel may thrive & live a very happy life...
I wish you all the luck & best possible outcome....


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Vince said:


> That must be incredibly frustrating & heartbreaking....I felt very emotional reading this.
> If its any help and the worst case becomes a reality....I visited a bird sanctuary about a year ago & there were about 20-30 birds of all species in a special enclosure, and they had all suffered serious injuries, & had various amputations.
> There were a number there with single wing amputations & even one with both wings removed. They all seems incredibly happy & content....
> I spent an hour or so there watching them because it was so compelling & inspiring to see how they had adapted.
> ...


Vince, thank you so much for the story. I do feel a little better reading your experience. We shall see what the vet says on Tuesday though...
My worry is that she will be picking on the leftover wing after the first one is gone. And then what... I just don't know why she does that.


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## SoCalTiels (Oct 8, 2013)

That's incredible Vince. It's really amazing how birds learn to adapt. I want to pretty much cross out my last post but I'm glad I was wrong honestly. Really glad. Your bird is young enough that hopefully the issue can be corrected, but the future is definitely not bleak for her by any means. Obviously it's still a last resort but it means there's a solution regardless, and I'm sure you guys are going to find the best possible option to help.


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

I had a good talk to the keeper of the enclosure that was run by Sea World on the Gold Coast Australia. He told me that the birds with the wing amputations had to be treated like a ground birds & they were obviously very careful if they handled them, not to drop them....I can not remember if I took pictures but I will have a look...we were on a family holiday.
Eduardo, try not to think to far down the track....if the wing did have to be removed maybe she would completely leave the other one alone if it was not annoying her & causing unnecessary attention.
Just take it all one step at a time....you may find a solution & it will all turn the corner for the better....


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

thank you, Vince. It means so much to me that I can share my worries about this issue with you all.


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

Eduardo....take a look at this..
1.20 is very relevant to your issue....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMMgpkE5xa8


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## Mezza (Feb 19, 2013)

Oh poor Candy. 
I hope she can recover and doesn't have to go to that last resort. 
She'll be in my prayers xx


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Thank you, everyone. I really appreciate your support.
Candy and I came back from the vet about an hour ago. She is still sleeping from the valium the vet gave her. Ok, so we talked about things and Candy is not even near the wing amputation at this point, thank goodness. The vet said that is the very last resort.
The wing has not improved much since she keeps chewing on it. So, the vet made a collar for her to stop her from chewing. He had to take some tests too and send them to the lab, which will take about a week. It is for any bacteria that may have developed under the wing. He wants to see what the best antibiotic is to give her. For now, the collar and antifungal cream under the wing. She weighed 92 g today, which is a good weight for her.
She is in a plastic storage bin with blanket at the bottom. I don't think she is doing so well with the collar he made. She was thrashing a lot and losing her balance. I might make her a bib out of fleece, she may tolerate it better.
So, here we are, $300 less in my pocket today and a very exhausted, fed up bird.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Ok, I had to take the collar he made off of her. She was just thrashing everywhere unable to walk, I was worried she was going to hurt her head and cause more injury to herself.
The pictures below are the collar. I just don't think she would be comfortable enough with it. I am going to try to make a fleece bib. I don't think this collar is comfortable for her 
Does anyone have any dimensions for a cockatiel bib? I feel so lost in all this...
She also thrashed around the vet's office with that collar and now has a tiny blood feather broken. What a torture...


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

Try to stay positive Eduardo.....dont let your worry show around your Tiel(I know that is very hard) as she will pick up on it big time.
Keep trying new things & think outside the box...
We have had a problem with our little girl for some weeks now & have spent a good deal of $$ with three different vets as well...its not easy I know.
But after being a very diligent and trying anything I could we seem to have stumbled on the problem & it was nothing even close to what the vets had thought.
Our Cheekee is happy & doing great again...so hang in there, do your best & dont beat yourself up....
You are her best asset....and she will know that...


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## Newtonian (Feb 19, 2014)

If you can't find dimensions, I'd use the collar the vet gave as a starting point. Use the internal circumference as the dimensions for the neck. Then have a look at that picture of the african grey earlier in the thread and shoot to make the length so that it falls at the same spot on your tiel's wings as that one does.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Thank you. Yes, I will get a little piece of fleece tomorrow and measure everything. Poor thing, she is just so loving towards me, I can't believe how fast she ran to me this afternoon. She just wanted to cuddle with me. I love that bird and it hurts me to see her suffer like this.
Yeah, that collar he made is made of some kind of foamy material, but she just wouldn't have it. She was throwing herself all over the floor, impossible..
So, have to figure something else. I am still waiting for the culture lab results back so she can get the right kind of antibiotic.
Something has got to work...


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## Newtonian (Feb 19, 2014)

Oh! Another thought: if you use velcro (or something similar) to fasten it, you can essentially build in some flexibility in size so you won't have to make a dozen of them trying to find the exact right dimensions. All you'd have to do is adjust the velcro to a new spot.


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## dianne (Nov 27, 2013)

Hi, Eduardo.
So sorry your bird is suffering.
I thought you might want to look at this website about bird collars:
http://thegabrielfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/PPP-Info-Sheets.pdf
I have never had to use one myself, but thought the site was interesting.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

dianne said:


> Hi, Eduardo.
> So sorry your bird is suffering.
> I thought you might want to look at this website about bird collars:
> http://thegabrielfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/PPP-Info-Sheets.pdf
> I have never had to use one myself, but thought the site was interesting.


Great article and it looks like the Gabriel foundation actually sells collars/panchos for tiels! That's awesome.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Thank you, guys!
The lab results came in and, unfortunately, Candy developed Staph infection 
This sucks...


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## catalinadee (Jan 1, 2011)

I can only imagine how you must be feeling right now  Chin up, something good must come your way. What are they going to do about the staph?


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

They gave me a different kind of antibiotic to treat her for two weeks, and she is supposed to wear a birdie collar or poncho, whichever she tolerates better. Neither she does though. I don't know what to do about that because I can treat the Staph all I want but unless she stops chomping on her self, she won't get better . 
I am going to work on the poncho wearing this weekend.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

So, she couldn't tolerate the collar at all and I made her a little birdie poncho. She is not thrilled, but at least she is not thrashing around. Keeps picking on it, so we'll see how that goes. We started on the new antibiotic.
She is right now cuddling with me, so apparently, all this torture didn't really change her feelings towards me.


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## SoCalTiels (Oct 8, 2013)

Seems like you've found a workable solution though  and it's super nice to hear that she's still cuddling with you! I hope the antibiotic helps quickly.


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## Newtonian (Feb 19, 2014)

Good luck, and good job on the poncho. Picking at it is better than picking at the wing.


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

The medication will work quickly...I am sure with the help of the poncho things will turn the corner!


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

I am sure the vet would have considered it....but would giving your Tiel pain relief, such as Metacam help her stop being attracted to the problem area?
Maybe if its feeling irritated & sore as infections do, she would keep biting it trying to get herself some relief....
Metacam is safe if used strictly as prescribed by an experienced Avian Vet...but like any medication it needs to be used cautiously.
I am sure the experienced breeders & keepers may be able to give some feedback on its use...and if this may be a possible option.
I also saw an episode on "Bondi Vet" (Australian Vet Practice TV Show) where a parrot with a severe & long lasting self mutilation issue was given a proportionate dose of Valium with immediate & lasting results....even after the drug was stopped....I think it was on it for a month or so.
They also used some distraction techniques during the use of the Valium to help it forget its bad habits & replace them with new habits. 
Just some thoughts....


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

She was taking some pain medicine for the first month of the treatment (after the first visit). Didn't really make her more comfortable.
Valium, I would have to ask the vet about that. He said to touch bases in two weeks after we stop the antibiotic.
He is convinced she is overpreening because of the injury on the wing. I am convinced that she caused the injury with overpreening, which in her case is psychological I believe. Because she was like that from the day I brought her home. She was preening excessively during her first week in our home. After a few weeks, I thought it was odd and took her to a vet (different one), who couldn't find anything wrong with her. I think her overpreening just progressed into plucking and mutilation. And now wing injury with Staph infection.


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

How is it going Eduardo....I hope its showing signs of getting better....


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## Mezza (Feb 19, 2013)

Oh dear. I have just caught up on this post. I am so sorry to hear about the staph infection 

Little bubba seems to have a lot of trust and faith in you so you need to keep strong. 

Prayers and scratches coming your way from me and my two. 

Cute little poncho you made too.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Thank you all for your concern, greatly appreciated! I haven't been able to post any updates, been working some crazy hours. Anyway, Candy is taking her medication no problem, which is a relief. The poncho, however, is not working out as well as I expected. She has, somehow, found a way to chew under her wing again, so I have to redesign it.
We'll see how everything is in a week or so when I get in touch with the vet.


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## Mezza (Feb 19, 2013)

Do you need to make one of those sock looking jumpers (like Moonchild had)?

This was the vet's attempt to stop Skiddles having a go at her cut she had on her tummy late last year. It was a serious fail but we called her the Satellite Dish...just point her tail up..LOL!

I just thought this pic would make you smile 

My thoughts are with you and Candy and I hope she gets better really soon.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Sorry she figured out a way around it.  Honestly, I think it needs to be bigger. If you look at the panchos on the Gabriel foundation site, or the picture of the African grey I posted, you will see that they are proportionally much larger than the one you made.

My fear is that if you amputate her wing, she will just start chewing on the rest of herself instead, and then she will also be crippled instead of just a mutilator. There must be a way to stop her from hurting herself.

Mezza, the sock sweater probably wouldn't help at all because it doesn't restrict access to the wings -- only the chest and back.


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## Peaches&Me (Oct 30, 2013)

This is just so heart wrenching 
I have no experience of self mutilation with cockatiels but do have with cockatoo's (thankfully not my own cockatoo), & honestly it's the hardest behaviour to break 
Keep doing what your doing, your doing a wonderful job, maybe explore the possibility of making the poncho a little larger. I have come across cockatoo's who have recovered from self mutilating so it can be done but it's a hard slog. The behaviour really does need to be broken though, so in my honest opinion, if you amputate her wing she will probably choose another body area to pick on.
Good luck, and positive energy coming your way x


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## hareth (Jan 27, 2014)

Can something be put onto the areas that are being chewed that tastes revolting, similar to that used to stop children biting their finger nails? It would need to be a safe revolting tasting lotion


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Mezza said:


> Do you need to make one of those sock looking jumpers (like Moonchild had)?
> 
> This was the vet's attempt to stop Skiddles having a go at her cut she had on her tummy late last year. It was a serious fail but we called her the Satellite Dish...just point her tail up..LOL!
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! the picture did make me smile 


moonchild said:


> Sorry she figured out a way around it.  Honestly, I think it needs to be bigger. If you look at the panchos on the Gabriel foundation site, or the picture of the African grey I posted, you will see that they are proportionally much larger than the one you made.
> 
> My fear is that if you amputate her wing, she will just start chewing on the rest of herself instead, and then she will also be crippled instead of just a mutilator. There must be a way to stop her from hurting herself.
> 
> Mezza, the sock sweater probably wouldn't help at all because it doesn't restrict access to the wings -- only the chest and back.


Exactly!! That is why I don't think wing amputation will solve the problem. I did make the poncho bigger but she kept tripping on it. It's so tricky to get the right size.


Peaches&Me said:


> This is just so heart wrenching
> I have no experience of self mutilation with cockatiels but do have with cockatoo's (thankfully not my own cockatoo), & honestly it's the hardest behaviour to break
> Keep doing what your doing, your doing a wonderful job, maybe explore the possibility of making the poncho a little larger. I have come across cockatoo's who have recovered from self mutilating so it can be done but it's a hard slog. The behaviour really does need to be broken though, so in my honest opinion, if you amputate her wing she will probably choose another body area to pick on.
> Good luck, and positive energy coming your way x


Thank you. I agree.


hareth said:


> Can something be put onto the areas that are being chewed that tastes revolting, similar to that used to stop children biting their finger nails? It would need to be a safe revolting tasting lotion


I have tried a bitter spray specifically designed for birds who pick, but it did not stop her.


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