# Emergency Run to the Vet !



## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Pavarotti started sitting on the bottom of the cage last night and acting really lethargic ! 
There was no Veterinary Clinic open at that time, So I waited until this morning, and today I spent almost 10 hours with him in the clinic ! 
I took him to a new Vet, Which I have to say I regret !
The guy was rude and wouldn't tell him exactly what is wrong with him, he just kept with the procedures and didn't let me talk or ask ! 
At the end of the day, They gave me the bill which states:

Doxycycline injection - They gave him this in the clinic 
Standard injection IM/SQ - They gave him this in the clinic 
Baytril Drops 10mg/ml 10ml
He gave me a little bottle with this " Baytril drops" and a syringe to give it to the bird . 

But other than that, the guy wouldn't speak a word or tell me exactly what was wrong. . . 
I'm supposed to take him back in a week ! 

But for now, if anyone can explain what I'm treating my bird for and what side effects should I expect, It would be great help .


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Grrrr!!!...*shame on this* vet for having you treat a bird *without* tests to find out what the problem is. The medication you listed are for the treatment of: Psittacosis, also called Chlamydia. 

Things to watch for while on the meds: *Watch the droppings*. If the urates (white part of the poop) turn a pale greenish color the meds are affecting the liver, which can over a period of time cause damage. If the dosages are too strong the bird may also act weak and stagger, or try to vomit. 

What I *strongly urge* you to do is get a second opinion. Take your receipt to another vet. You are in a state where an illness like this is reportable to the Board of Health...therefore if it was a real problem this vet should have had the decency to explain this, and to explain proper quarentine procedures over the next 6 weeks. If this was not explained then he is just having you needlessly treat for his own profit. Sorry to sound jaded, but I have been down this road, and know of others that have and needlessly treated their birds. 

You can also independantly have a test run to confirm if this is a problem. Phone Avian Biotech tomorrow: http://www.avianbiotech.com/Contactus.htm Explain what meds you are listed on the receipt. Explain that the vet would not tell you what the bird was being treated for, and NO tests were taken, and you heard that this treatment is for Chlymidia, and you would like them to send out the test kit ASAP so that you can test to verify if this is the problem. They will explain which kits to order, and good instructions are included: http://www.avianbiotech.com/SampleDisease.htm
Here is some info from their site. http://www.avianbiotech.com/Diseases/Chlamydia.htm


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Hi,
Thanks for answering Srtiels, You don't know how worried I am ! 
The Vet visit was really traumatizing ! 
He didn't really care much about what was going on with my baby  I had many questions but he was more busy giving him shots everywhere than listening for a second ! :wacko:

Srtiels, I think this might be too soon to tell, but the droppings are not looking good ! I'll take a picture in a minute and I'll upload it . 

I went out and got the bird a cage where he can rest and stay away from the bird room for a while, I just thought this is what I should do. 
Yesterday night, when I saw that he wasn't eating or drinking, I went out and got pedialyte for him, and gave him a few drops. I did the same thing this morning before I took him to the Vet, but when I told this to the Vet, the guy almost killed me ! I don't know why this is wrong. I don't want the bird to dehydrate ! 
Should I repeat the pedialyte part ? He's eating but he doesn't wanna drink... 

The Vet, told me I should only feed him what he really likes ( seeds!!! ) this way he'll be encouraged to eat on his own, but I believe this will kill the process of changing into pellets... :wacko: What should I do ? What else can I do to keep the bird " ok " until tomorrow when I call Avian Biotech ? 

Thank you so much for your help ! 
I really appreciate it ! !!!!!! 

Diana


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

You did the *right thing* by putting him in a separate cage and trying to give him electrolytes for fluids. I don't see why the vet should dissapprove of this...sheeh!

As to him eating, right now screw it as to the pellets if he will not eat him. Forcing the issue will further stress him and lead to other secondary problems. Allow him to eat anything he will eat. You want him eating so that he does not use his own body reserves of protein (which is his muscles) and waste away and get thin...which can happen within a day or two. Contine giving the pedialyte. If he is reluctant to drink it out of his water dish dilute it 50/50 with water.

You might consider clipping a heating pad set on low to one side of the cage and draping that side to hold in heat. This way if he needs heat he can get near it.

If you are giving the Baytril orally, please take care and let it dribble under the tongue and watch that he swallows it. Did the vet show you how to give the oral meds. And did he mark the syringe or go over the correct dosage. With the strength you have the dosage is supposed to be .06 (point oh six) on the syringe, [er 100 grams of body weight. If he weighs less than 100 grams then the dosage is reduced accordingly. To measure this is six tiny lines up from the bottom of the syringe. 

Though it does puzzle me why he gave the injectable Doxy, and still has you do the oral. That is an overkill on the meds. The injectable would have been fine, and this is 1 injection per week...*IF* he truly has Chlyamydia. (sp)


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

When the Vet put Pavarotti on the scale to weight him, he shouted that the bird is too skinny and was trying to make it sound like I'm starving him or something .... But anywho ! 

In his new cage I put a bowl with just plain seeds and another bowl with pellets, he can pick, I put a bowl with water, but he won't touch it, I will keep on giving the pedialyte with the syringe, it doesn't seem to bother him when I do this. 

Right now I don't have any heating pads but I will try to get one tonight at rite aid or somewhere... and I will do that as well . 

I am supposed to give the Baytril orally once a day for a week, I kind of know how to give this medicines orally, The guy told me to go to 2.5ml in the syringe and give it all to him, I saw how he did it and its drop by drop in his mouth, watching as he swallows.... ( just like you said )

We don't know for sure if he has chlamydia or not, since he was not tested... But tomorrow will be a new day and hopefully I'll get some help from Avian Biotech . 

Thank you so much again !
I'll keep you updated !


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

The vet actually shouted? Yikes*.* It is not uncommon for a bird to lose weight when it does not feel well.

_*The guy told me to go to 2.5ml in the syringe and give it all to him, I saw how he did it and its drop by drop in his mouth, watching as he swallows.... ( just like you said )
--------------------------------------------*_

OMG!!!! Do you mean 2 and a 1/2 ml? If so, This dosage is *too high*, and can cause liver problems and damage. Can you post a pix of the syringe on a piece of paper with a mark showing what the dosage is? Bayril should be given 2X a day so that it maintains a theraputic blood level in the body. Given once a day the med, tapers off in the body...thus during this time there is no theraputic benefit from it.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Click on the pix for a larger veiw. Ignore the needles on the illus. Is your syringe like the one with blue # or black?


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

Giving baytril once a week is just rubbish You can either give 0.05ml morning and evening or 0.1ml once a day, must be every day for the course, that is literally a drop. I always put the drip into a little bowl so I don't contaminate the meds bottle with the syringe. I'm a bit confused about doxy and baytril, a friend of mines avain vet says you shouldn't treat with Baytril and Doxy at the same time but when I've tried looking into this it seems on many rat forums it's quite common to use both?


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## DinoandSera (Aug 31, 2010)

Oh no, I have no advice, but sending mega vibes your way. I hope Pavarotti (great name, by the way) recovers quickly.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

_* I'm a bit confused about doxy and baytril, a friend of mines avain vet says you shouldn't treat with Baytril and Doxy at the same time but when I've tried looking into this it seems on many rat forums it's quite common to use both?*_
_*-----------------------------------------------------*_

Jess...thanks for your input (I value your opinions  )...but I was thinking the same thing in regards to the 2 meds. 

What disturbs me the most is that no tests were run to confirm what the problem is. I am just assuming it is treatment for Chlamydia because of the meds, and having the bird come back in a week, which would be another shot of Doxy. 

If, by chance, the birds problem was as simple as an imbalance in the intestinal flora, treating with antibiotics is only going to compound the problem, and also generate secondary yeast problem.


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## tielmom (Aug 4, 2010)

I hope Pavarotti feels better soon.


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Thank you all so much for the answers, the good vibes and the helpful advice ! 

Pavarotti was looking better yesterday night than today... Today he's just really lethargic again. He's perching ( not sitting on the bottom of the cage anymore ) But he's puffier than ever and he won't let me touch him for any reason ! 

I have a few pictures of him . I have a picture of the Syringe . I'm sorry I couldn't answer last night, but it was such a long day that by the time I put the birds to sleep, it was the moment for me to go to sleep as well :wacko:

I think I made a mistake when I talked about the amount of the Baytril I'm supposed to give him, I don't know how to read the syringe measurements very well but I know till' what point I'm supposed to go up with the Baytril. 

I'm supposed to give him 0.25ML by mouth once daily for 7 - 10 days !
Sorry for the mistake ! 
Is it still a lot ?! 

I took a picture of his droppings... They're Grayish looking . He's still sleeping and he hasn't eaten since yesterday... He had a little bit of water on his own when I put him in the new cage last night. 

Can I bring him out ? Its a really pretty, sunny day outside... I don't know if a little bit of sun would do him good ? just wondering ! 

Thank you guys again, Thanks for the support ! 

Here are some pictures !


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/-CPiSmGNq1friVGxgbvZK30rei1uYnZhSoQB9xJWOAY?feat=directlink

This is the picture of the Syringe, for some reason the forum doesn't let me upload it . But take a look as well ! 

Thanks again !


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes...if the weather is nice it would be great to bring him outside 

The dosage looks OK.

I cropped your pix so that I can see it better. OK...the urates are white, so the med is not causing harm. BUT the urates are NOT normal. They should be more formed and in a lesser quantity. When you went to the vet were the droppings like this? In looking at the droppings there is a white 'bloom' to the separate piece off to the side. many times this could be caused by an imbalance in intestinal flora, and just the use of probiotics would have corrected this. 

If the urates get thinner and dry a reall chalky looking mass, there is concern about some of the kidney function. Sometimes adding some crannberry juice til the water is pale pink will help with better kidney function.

The actual feces part of the poop is dark, and this could be a result of any dehydration, and if he is off on eating his food. The discoloration to the urine is also an indication of some still dehydration going on.


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

Poor little Pavarotti.  I will surely pray for him tonight. He probably won't let you touch him because when birds are sick they feel more vulnerable and will get defensive even to their owners. At least that's what I read. 

In the meantime, find a REAL avian vet (one that is certified to treat birds because not all vets are avian certified)!!! Your vet is obviously a jerk who doesn't know what he's doing but wants to make money off you anyway. Seems like he's just trying anything and he doesn't even know what is wrong. Why else would he not explain anything and not talk to you?  Good luck and keep us posted.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I agree with Annie...well said


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

I'll bring him out today, its sunny and beautiful ! 
I will give him cranberry juice in his water... and I'll give him pedialyte as well... I still didn't give the Baytril today, I'm gonna give it to him around 5pm that's when he got his first dosage yesterday... 
He didn't eat anything yet today... He has plenty of seeds in his cage but he's not making any effort to eat them.... 
Tomorrow, I'm bringing him to a Vet in NJ, to get a second opinion . 
and I will call Avian Biotech later on today.

Thank you so much !


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> When the Vet put Pavarotti on the scale to weight him, he shouted that the bird is too skinny


Whaaaatt?? You can't judge a cockatiel's weight by the numbers on the scale - there's too much individual size difference. The correct way to tell if a bird's weight is appropriate is to feel the amount of "meat" around the breastbone. It sounds like this vet isn't just nasty - he's incompetent too.


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Annie, Thank you so much for your opinion.
Pavarotti is not the friendliest tiel, even when he's not sick... But I just feel so bad to know that he's not feeling well .  

The guy is an Avian Vet. He's certified as an Avian Vet, he's just old and cranky I guess... If he's trying to get money off of me, he's barking up the wrong tree. I'm not rich and I work for every dime I have; and I believe there's other people out there who are willing to truthfully help me ! He charged me 243.00 Dollars yesterday for the 2 injections, and the Baytril, and another 50.00 for Check up appointment. I don't know if its a lot, or if its cheap, I was just desperately looking for help for my little cake !


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

tielfan said:


> Whaaaatt?? You can't judge a cockatiel's weight by the numbers on the scale - there's too much individual size difference. The correct way to tell if a bird's weight is appropriate is to feel the amount of "meat" around the breastbone. It sounds like this vet isn't just nasty - he's incompetent too.


Haha He's old... I think he has too many things going on, I don't know... He probably had a bad day... I try to think of what could've been going through his mind when he saw me with a sick bird... He probably thinks that I neglect my birds or something. But as I told him, I'm only trying to help my bird, if I wasn't paying attention to my animals, I wouldn't be at the clinic in the first place. 

What can we do, there's all kinds of people in this world, one day we deal with nice ones' and another day we just have to learn from others' mistakes !


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

This is Pavarotti in the sun, He's much more aware of everything when we're outside, I decided to have my "Brunch" With him outside and it seems like seeing me eat encouraged him into eating too, and not only that ! But he made a healthy choice, he picked pellets over seeds !  He also picked into my broccoli 
He didn't eat a lot, but we're still outside and I'm gonna hang out here for a while with him and wait if he eats more !


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## tielmom (Aug 4, 2010)

I am glad he is eating...hopefully this is a sign that he is feeling better.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

That great!  He looks happier outside. 

If you go to another vet, what you can do is ask for a copy of his records from the current vet, so that you can show what was done, and see if any special notes are in his files. Any reports, or a birds file is your property if you pay for their services...thus it is wise to ask for a copy to keep for your own personal safe-keeping. Yes...the bill sounded excessive. Sub-Q fluids should be about $25 MAX. The shots should have been $10-20 each, and the Baytril taken home should have been $20. Prices can be *alittle* higher or lower, depending on area.

Once the new vet knows what medications you are on, you can ask about having a culture done to be sent out (results are ususally in a few days) to see if there is anything abnormal, and the report will list the meds that are effective. You can also mention that you would like to send out your own tests to Avian Biotech, and if there is a problem, if the new vet would work with you.


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

Oh, Pavrotti definitely looks much, much better than before now, and eating and all!! It looks like he's gonna be fine, and I haven't even started praying yet! 

Your vet may be a certified avian vet but from what you said, he certainly does not really care for birds at all (or for anyone else for that matter). There's so much more to being a doctor/vet other than knowledge, and I would never trust a doctor/vet who is that cold and unwilling to explain anything. And charging you that amount is ridiculous. I'd say dump him for a real avian vet. 

Well, my Sunny is not the cuddliest tiel either. He would cuddle if he feels like it but sometimes he just wants me to leave him alone when I try to kiss him or scritch him. I guess we just have to understand that they have mega personalities and just let them be tiels!


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

I believe that he's a little better, he ate and he was more alert while we were outside, I took him inside and he was standing next to a window enjoying the view , now he's back to " Sleeping-mode ". But I believe he deserves some rest too . 

Tomorrow will be the next visit to the Vet, and hopefully everything will be fine. I have faith that everything will turn out to be Ok. 
I'll make sure to let the new Vet know what medications he's on and I'll just keep an eye on him just like I did today. I hope the amount that I'll be charged tomorrow will be more reasonable, we'll see ... we'll see ! 

I'll keep you all updated ! 

Thank you so much for the support !


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Good luck tomorrow  He looks happy looking out the window....


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

Okay, I chanted the Great Compassion Mantra 5 times after my regular nightly prayers to the Buddha and dedicated the merit to little Pavrotti. It is a very powerful mantra. Hope it helps.  

I am currently in the process of requesting a separate "Positive Intentions" forum from our administrator so if it works out, we will soon be able to have a forum just for people to post prayer requests for lost and sick tiels. (You can read all about it under the "Site-Related Discussions" forum. I started a thread on July 16 entitled "Suggestion for New Site" so I won't repeat it here, but obviously lots of people think it is a good idea and are supportive of it, so we shall see what comes of it... )

Keep us posted but looks like he will be fine. 

Love to you and Pavrotti,
Annie


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Annie, Thank you so much, thats really kind of you. 
I really like the idea , I'm gonna read your thread after we get back from NJ . 

Right now I'm getting everything ready to bring the baby to the new Vet; He looks a lot better, you're prayers worked ! 

Srtiels & Annie, Thank you so much for your support and good wishes !


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## tielmom (Aug 4, 2010)

Hope everything turns out fine and he is doing much better.


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## Velvet (Jul 30, 2010)

Sounds like he is on the mend !! Yippe!


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

How's little Pavrotti? We're just a little concerned and want to make sure he is okay now. Please drop us a line and let us know if you get a chance....

Annie


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Hi Annie, Thanks for keeping in touch ! 
Pavarotti is doing really good, he's back to his own-self. 
The Vet that saw him in NJ, helped me a lot and talked me through everything, but I believe that by the time I took him there, Pav was feeling way better because the Vet said he looked like any other healthy cockatiel ( and his weight is fine ! ). He ran some blood tests from one of Pavarotti's nail and he told me if something was wrong he'd call me immediately and I'd have to bring Pavarotti in ASAP, but he didn't call back that means everything is fine, We still have a check up on thursday anyway . 
The vet works with " Natural Remedies ", so I was told to still give him the baytril since I already had it and he gave me some "herbs" that I'd have to give to him as some sort of tea . . . 
He's doing great now, Thanks ! ! ! 


Oh I forgot to tell you guys !!!
Pavarotti's mate (Bella) laid 4 eggs up to now, I believe that today she'll lay another one, since she's been laying them exactly every 48 hours ! but he's not around her 
She's already sitting on them and spends most of her time in the nest . She's a pretty Momma ! 
I have to candle the eggs soon... I'll let you know what happens ! 

Thanks again !


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

Yeah!!!!! So happy to hear he's fine.  And glad you now have a real vet. 

Annie


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## dianaxgalvez (May 3, 2010)

Pavarotti passed away .


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

im so sorry to hear that


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## tielmom (Aug 4, 2010)

I am so sorry


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## Mystified (Jun 21, 2010)

I am really sorry.


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## sissy (Sep 21, 2010)

I am so sorry.


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