# Feather Plucking



## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

I am worried because my tiel has been plucking his neck and chest feathers for quite a while now.
I have tried everything, toys to shred as well as all sorts of other toys, I have played more with him etc. and he doesn't look bored at all, actually he is always active, but he still plucks those feathers. The vet said that as he is a healthy kid it is most probably a behavioural problem, but as I have already tried everything I don't know what to do.
I have also given him more calcium, as apparently this can help too.
I have also tried some cream.
The vet seemed to be against a collar.
He will be 6 next month and this behaviour started last year.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated - thank you!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Has he been tested for giardia or other parasites? If not, he needs to be. 

If you haven't already tried them, there's this spray from AviTech that works for some birds. There's also AviCalm, which helps some behavioral plucking.

If all possible underlying medical causes have been ruled out, then it probably is behavioral. How does he act? If he's a happy bird, then I probably wouldn't do anything and would just try to accept that plucking is a part of his life. There are many pluckers that have very happy lives. I think your vet is right that collaring him would probably just make him miserable.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Thank you, enigma731. No, he hasn't been tested for parasites, but I should add that he is always inside (not in an aviary outside).
Yes, he is a very happy birdie full of energy and very cheeky. 
Thanks for the link. I could not find those products in Australia and their website says _In some circumstances, international shipping may be available._ So it is not standard...
But I found this here: http://www.mypetwarehouse.com.au/aristopet-bird-stop-pick-spray-125ml-p-22711
It's a little bit different, as it doesn't soothe his skin, but has rather a bitter taste that is supposed to stop him from plucking...
Maybe I should give it a go?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Giardia is transmitted through water and can be present in the water supply, so you should talk to your vet about testing for it even though he's an indoor bird. 

I'm not sure about the spray. I would ask your vet if it looks like a good product before using it.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Thank you, I will ask my vet.
Would it help in the future to give him filtered water?


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## JoJo's Mom (Oct 20, 2012)

When my budgie started plucking my avian vet told me to try flax seed- its sold in a ground up powder and has a small (tiny) little spoon in it. It helped, but didn't stop it completely. You can get it here: http://www.mysafebirdstore.com/AVITECH-Avitech_Aviflax_8_OZ.html?gclid=CLzjppaO1MYCFUuTfgod358OZw


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Thank you, JoJo's Mom!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

littletiel said:


> Thank you, I will ask my vet.
> Would it help in the future to give him filtered water?


I don't know that that would prevent it. My impression is that giardia's just one of those things that happens sometimes. Humans get it sometimes too. Kind of like how you can sometimes get food poisoning even if you always eat at reputable places.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Would this be OK too?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pure-Raw...44?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item19fa9f3020

It's the only flax seed food I have found... They don't have anything in the pet shops I usually buy from...


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Can you go to a health food store and get some of the food grade flax seed sold for humans? I would trust that over ebay.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Yes, I could go to a health food store. I have seen some seeds at the pharmacy too, so I will have a look if they have flax seeds too.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I know a lot of grocery stores here have them too.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Thanks, I will check!


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## JoJo's Mom (Oct 20, 2012)

This is more like what my vet recommended, its a finely ground meal from flaxseed. He ate it much better than the plain flax seeds. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Melrose-...02?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item27f7abb2b6 You might be able to get it at the health food store, or a pet store also. I got mine in a pet store.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Thanks!


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

I have just come to realize something a bit strange.
The plucking started when I started buying the seeds from a reputable pet shop instead of the supermarket, as I had been told that supermarket products are poorly made.
It is very strange, I know, but I checked the dates and they perfectly coincide. For some reason everybody seemed to think that supermarket products are worse and I just didn't think that the pet shop seeds could cause the plucking, but looking back at the dates it doesn't seem to be a coincidence.
Could it be that there are too many vitamins in the pet shop product?
Should I go back to the supermarket seeds or at least mix the supermarket seeds and the pet shop seeds?
I am stunned now that I checked the dates and feel bad for not checking earlier, but I really thought I was buying the best product for him... I thought of all possible causes, just not that the better seeds might be the cause... Maybe he is allergic to something in them?
The seeds he was on before the plucking were "Trill", and he is now on the "Watson and Williams Premium Seed Blend". I guess it is worth a try to see how it goes if I go back to "Trill"...?
PS: He doesn't only eat seeds, but I just wanted to mention the change I had made back then (on other people's recommendation).


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## tasheanne (Dec 31, 2014)

That Watson and Williams premium stuff isn't particularly good, I bought that once and wasn't too impressed but that's another story. I really doubt it's the seeds causing it to be honest. That seems more like a coincidence to me but I could be wrong. I'd be more inclined to get him tested for parasites, that makes much more sense.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Thanks, tasheanne. What do you buy for your tiels and where do you buy it?

I thought it "might" be the seeds because I have read that sometimes food allergies can cause itching... Or malnutrition/wrong diet, but I am really trying my best. Apart from seeds I also give him egg-and-biscuit formula, some treats, some pellets, some vitamins etc... He just doesn't eat his veggies apart from broccoli though.

I will have him tested if it goes on, but he really doesn't display any other sign of illness. His other feathers are just beautiful and bright and he is as lively as lively can be. His droppings look exactly like they should be judging from photos of normal droppings online. His appetite is very good too. His eyes and nose are perfect too.

*This is from a website for example:

What are the clinical signs of giardiasis?

Loose malodorous stools and mucoid diarrhoea NO
Weight loss, depression and anorexia NO
Dry skin and feather picking on the flank and axilla are the most common signs in cockatiels YES, but also the chest and the neck, and only the axilla, not the flank
Poor growth NO*

But because occasionally some cockatiels don't display any signs of illness even when they are sick I guess it is better to do a test anyway if it goes on.
I told the vet I would go again in spring if the problem persists.


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## tasheanne (Dec 31, 2014)

They're on golden cob right now which isn't great either but I didn't have a lot of choice at the time of purchase. A lot of the seed mixes had grit in it and I don't want grit. Definitely better than trill though. I have to pick all the sunflower seeds out by hand though which is a pain. Honestly I'm looking for better seed mixes for them too, I know the best way to go is to get it from a bird shop who make up their own but then you need to ask what's in it and make your own judgement on it.

Not sure where you live in Australia.. if it's Perth though just don't go to birdworld. Probably never go there to be honest. I've heard they catch wild birds during breeding seasons and I know for a fact a lot of their birds are sick and kept in far too small cages. They were keeping two cockatiels that had a "mystery illness" and couldn't even perch anymore right next all these other birds in the middle of the store a couple of months ago so you definitely want to stay away. Also birds there are injured and they'll lie to you about the nature of their injuries, not even convincingly. Other bird places in Perth that are better are birds'n'all and swan valley birds. But I suppose none of that matters if you're not in Perth lol.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Isn't grit good for digestion? I even give him a bit extra grit. Now I am worried. I only started recently though...
PS: I have just read that it is controversial whether it is good for digestion or not... I will read more about it.


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## tasheanne (Dec 31, 2014)

Sorry I was editing my last post and nearly didn't see this. Grit just isn't necessary for hook bills, so I've heard. It's more for birds that eat their seeds without removing the husks, the grit helps them break it all down. Cockatiels remove the husks though so it's easier for them to digest anyway so grit isn't really needed. I've heard grit can cause crop problems and such things. I'm no expert on it really and you get a lot of mixed info about it. People at a bird shop here told me they need it 100% but I've also been told by vets it's not needed. I think the old info is that it's needed and new info is that it's not.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

I actually started giving him extra grit because I was told calcium would help with the plucking problem, but it looks like it didn't help...


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## tasheanne (Dec 31, 2014)

I'd remove the grit if it was me, but like I said I'm not an expert. From what I've heard, it isn't a good idea. Give him cuttlebone for calcium. Ive heard it can act like grit if they eat huge amounts of it and cause crop problems (actually I read it on here just a few days ago) but as long as he doesn't eat a massive amount, which would be unlikely, then he will be fine with cuttlebone. He definitely needs cuttlebone for calcium though, you weren't wrong about that, they all do.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

He has a calcium bell at the moment, and he does like it.
I also have cuttlebone at home (I had a 2 package, so I used one, then the bell he has now, and next the cuttlebone again.
I will definitely remove the extra grit now though...


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## Brandon2k14 (Nov 26, 2014)

littletiel said:


> Thank you, I will ask my vet.
> Would it help in the future to give him filtered water?


I always give filtered water I think tap water is dirty.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Brandon2k14 said:


> I always give filtered water I think tap water is dirty.


I thought so too, but somebody told me that to give them filtered water all the time is not good because of the absence of minerals?

Now I don't know if I should go back to filtered water or not (I did try for a short time). Maybe I can alternate?


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Maybe bottled spring water would be better? Probably the best?
How long can I leave an opened bottle in the fridge?


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Another possibility is AviClens.


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## tasheanne (Dec 31, 2014)

I just use filtered water. Lots of chlorine in water here and other crap I don't want them drinking too much of.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

I will go back to filtered water then... It is a jug with a filter though (the filter is not in the water pipe)....

Also, I do have a microscope. As the poop has to be checked fresh for giardia it is impossible for the vet to do it as 1) the taxi takes some time to arrive and go to the vet; 2) sometimes the vet doesn't call me in immediately; 3) my boy might not poop just before I leave...

Please note that _I am in no way trying to diagnose what he has myself_, but I thought that because I have a microscope I could have a look at his fresh poop. Unfortunately I cannot magnify more than 640x, and the quality is not very good at that level.
This would be 6000x for example https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Giardia_intestinalis_(259_17).jpg, but I guess I could still spot giardia at about 1/10 of the above magnification. I have read that the minimum magnification required to spot giardia is 400x.
PS: This would be 400x, more than enough I think...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXt4DwvqpSc

Well, now I will wait until I see a fresh poop or I see him poop... I will do several tests, as I have read that not all samples may contain giardia...


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## tasheanne (Dec 31, 2014)

You can take the paper from the bottom of his cage to the vet with you. It just needs to be relatively fresh and he probably will poop on the way the anyway, they usually poop pretty regularly. I don't know exactly how they do the test for it but I know with gram stains they use a special dye. I really dont think doing it yourself is a wise idea, unless you're qualified to do so. You are more likely to do it wrong and feel a false sense of security when you don't see anything. Honestly I think it's time you took him to the vet. If the money is an issue perhaps you should try to talk to them about a payment plan, sometimes they'll let you do that, though I don't think it costs that much anyway.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

I actually was at the vet about 3-4 weeks ago (pretty recently anyway) and she said that if he is otherwise healthy it is most probably a behavioural problem. He has also put on 1 gram since last year.

Then she said we can wait a bit longer and possibly take a blood test anyway just to be 100% sure (around October-November).

I don't think she thought of giardia, which surprises me. Probably rather psittacosis, that's why she mentioned the blood test, while at the same time thinking it might be behavioural if he doesn't have any other symptoms.
However, giardia CAN be asymptomatic (contrary to psittacosis).

I do intend to go again as planned. I just wanted to have a quick look in the meantime. I am going again as planned even if I don't see anything of course. And I will mention giardia...

In the meantime I am also going back to filtered water.

Oh, I have also read that sometimes just a bit of apple cider vinegar in the water can cure cockatiels of giardia??? I am going to buy some apple cider vinegar. I only have white vinegar at home right now.


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## tasheanne (Dec 31, 2014)

Not sure about the apple cider vinegar, I've never had a bird get giardia. However, one of my birds has recently been proven to have psittacosis. If your bird has an active psittacosis infection then there should be other symptoms as well such as discharge from eyes or nose, clicking or wheezing when breathing, lack of apitite, etc. 
your bird may be infected with psittacosis but the psittacosis might not be actively affecting them right now, if that makes sense. It can be just in their body doing nothing for the time being. It's super rare that a bird is actually properly cured of psittacosis, usually the infection is just treated but the psittacosis bacteria remains deep down inside them and can resurface later on. I mention this because if you're going to do testing for psittacosis then you need to know that and need to understand that some tests don't really spell out if your bird is sick with an active psittacosis infection or if the psittacosis bacteria is just chilling in their body not really doing anything right now. 
For example! You can do an antibody test and it'll say positive but that could easily just mean that your bird was exposed to it at some point in their lives, developed antibodies against it, but got over it and aren't actually sick with it right now. They do another antibody test 2 weeks later and compare the two results to see if it's progressed and that's how they know if the infection is active. They'll also do a blood smear and check the white blood cell count. If your bird has an active psittacosis infection the white blood cell count should be pretty darn high (a vet told me just an hour ago)! 
So, to recap, the first antibody test will basically let you know if your bird has ever been exposed to psittacosis, and will give you a base level of antibodies to psittacosis that your bird has. The second antibody test will hopefully tell you if the infection is active or not by looking to see if the results are higher or the same as the first test. The blood smear will look at the White blood cells and basically aid in determining if it's active as well. 
HOWEVER, there is a better test (available in Perth but not in eastern states, they can sent the samples over here though to be tested) where they swab the mouth, eyes, etc and test to see what stage the infection is at. It's a more reliable way but if the bird isn't actively shedding the bacteria (as in, they're not sick with it right then) it will come back negative. This test will not tell you if psittacosis is present in the body, it'll just tell you if your bird is sick with it at that particular time. I don't know the name of this test but it's around 100 bucks here. 
I hope this made sense I'm half asleep and not at my most articulate! 
Was this vet you saw an avian vet? I'm surprised they didn't think of giardia to be honest.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Thanks for the explanation.
How long can psittacosis be latent in their body? The plucking has gone on for over a year now with absolutely no other symptoms, although initially he didn't pluck much.
He also plucks under his wings, which apparently can indeed be indicative of giardia.
It is also still possible that it is just a behavioural problem of course. He is extremely lively and active, always shredding, always touching, pulling etc., so he could also do it to himself... He just has to do something all the time and is quite hormonal.
By the way, he has never been in contact with other birds since I bought him as a baby, apart from once when I went on holiday and he stayed with the breeder, but in his own cage (however there were other cages in the room)... The plucking started about 5-6 months after that.
He is always inside, as I don't have a garden.
PS: Yes, the vet was an avian vet. Pretty young, so probably at the beginning of her career, but an avian vet.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I have never heard of plucking being related to psittacosis. 

Giardia is definitely something you'll want to rule out, and it may be that your best bet is to treat for it and see whether or not there is an improvement on the meds. It's difficult enough to test for that many vets favor that route.


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## tasheanne (Dec 31, 2014)

As far as I know, psittacosis stays around forever. Occasionally, rarely, a birds immune system will fight it off completely but, like I say, it's pretty rare and I wouldn't bet on it happening. All you can do with psittacosis is watch out for when they show symptoms, get them treated for it and then try to reduce stress so they don't come down with it again (stress brings it on a lot of the time because their immune system is compromised). Like if you move house or they have a big scare and fly into a wall they could start getting symptoms of psittacosis. 
If he has psittacosis, it's very possible he got it from staying at that boarding place. It very easily could infected him there even if he never physically touched another bird. Fomites (like blankets and clothing, etc.) can carry the bacteria and remain contagious for a good long time, and it can also be airborne. He might have had it forever, since back when he was a chick with his parents, and it just hadn't made him ill yet. 
The thing is you can never be 100% sure a bird doesn't have psittacosis unless you run tests, so with any bird you buy there's a chance they have it even if they look healthy. You might not realise for years they have it, not until they start showing symptoms. It's not a death sentence though so don't stress too much, I know I freaked out big time when I heard about it because of all the "there's no real cure" stuff. If your bird does have it you need to be super vigilant and keep a close eye on them though to make sure you catch any changes in their behaviour or health and get them treated asap, because if they are left to get too ill there can be permanent damage or even death if it's too late to treat it. Remember, this is a zoonotic disease so people can catch it as well, though it's very rare. If you are immunosuppressed you are at higher risk. If he has it, and you start to feel flu-y and don't get better then go get tested for it yourself cause it can turn into pneumonia and stuff. But don't freak out, there's Antibiotics for it! 

I tend to feel that plucking is usually health related and I feel giardia is more likely the cause here than psittacosis (though I'm not saying he doesn't have psittacosis, like I said, any bird might!)


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## tasheanne (Dec 31, 2014)

enigma731 said:


> I have never heard of plucking being related to psittacosis.
> 
> Giardia is definitely something you'll want to rule out, and it may be that your best bet is to treat for it and see whether or not there is an improvement on the meds. It's difficult enough to test for that many vets favor that route.


Some bird do "feather pick" with psittacosis but yeah, it's not one of the main symptoms you hear about a lot. Giardia is more likely. I don't know how difficult it is to test for giardia but if it's possible to test for it accurately, I'd do that before giving medication. Giving antibiotics when it might not be needed is never a great idea, though I know sometimes it has to be done. If your bird is on antibiotics a lot it can lower the effectiveness of future courses of antibiotics and it can stop their immune system producing antibodies to fight future infections. 
Like I said though, I'm not overly familiar with giardia.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Oh, I just checked the symptoms in humans and it mentions a dry cough, which is exactly what I had for a long time (a few months) and my doc was not sure what it was...
It would probably even be quicker to have me tested, and if I have it I definitely got it from him, so he has it too... No fever, but I am always cold (I have always been like that though...) and I often have colds (again, I had them also before he started plucking). The dry cough is sort of new though. Probably just a coincidence.

However, I also tend to think that if it is not behavioural it is giardia. We will see how it goes with the filtered water and a bit of apple cider vinegar now.

PS: He also has 2 new feathers on his chest - just 2, but they are pretty!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

tasheanne said:


> Some bird do "feather pick" with psittacosis but yeah, it's not one of the main symptoms you hear about a lot. Giardia is more likely. I don't know how difficult it is to test for giardia but if it's possible to test for it accurately, I'd do that before giving medication. Giving antibiotics when it might not be needed is never a great idea, though I know sometimes it has to be done. If your bird is on antibiotics a lot it can lower the effectiveness of future courses of antibiotics and it can stop their immune system producing antibodies to fight future infections.
> Like I said though, I'm not overly familiar with giardia.


Giardia is notoriously hard to test for because an infected bird will only shed it intermittently. It's entirely possible that an infected bird can be symptomatic and never shed, or that an asymptomatic infected bird could shed, or any combination of those. So basically if you have a symptomatic bird and a negative test, the only thing you can really do to rule it out is to treat and see what happens. Fortunately, giardia is treated with antiparasitics not antibiotics, so they're not likely to be meds that the bird would be on a lot in its lifetime, and it doesn't impact future immunity. 

(I will admit to speaking from a biased perspective, though -- I treated my flock twice when all of my plucker's tests came back negative. It didn't help, but I don't regret doing it because now I know I've done all I could.)


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## tasheanne (Dec 31, 2014)

Most likely you haven't caught it but you never know. I'm in the process of getting testing myself, my doctor is doing an antibody test (same as the bird ones). I've done the first one and then I'm expected to do another 2 weeks later. If you get yourself tested you'll still need to test him to be sure though because he might still have it even if you don't.


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## tasheanne (Dec 31, 2014)

enigma731 said:


> Giardia is notoriously hard to test for because an infected bird will only shed it intermittently. It's entirely possible that an infected bird can be symptomatic and never shed, or that an asymptomatic infected bird could shed, or any combination of those. So basically if you have a symptomatic bird and a negative test, the only thing you can really do to rule it out is to treat and see what happens. Fortunately, giardia is treated with antiparasitics not antibiotics, so they're not likely to be meds that the bird would be on a lot in its lifetime, and it doesn't impact future immunity.
> 
> (I will admit to speaking from a biased perspective, though -- I treated my flock twice when all of my plucker's tests came back negative. It didn't help, but I don't regret doing it because now I know I've done all I could.)


Ah I see, when I googled it it said they are treated with antibiotics but I guess it must have been wrong. Yes I agree if it's that difficult, or even sometimes impossible, to test for it then treatment would be a good idea just in case. It certainly seems likely enough to warrant the treatment.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

tasheanne said:


> Ah I see, when I googled it it said they are treated with antibiotics but I guess it must have been wrong. Yes I agree if it's that difficult, or even sometimes impossible, to test for it then treatment would be a good idea just in case. It certainly seems likely enough to warrant the treatment.


I think the confusion comes from the fact that metronidazole is the first line treatment for giardia in humans, and it's both an antibiotic and antiparasitic. The treatment of choice in veterinary medicine is ronidazole, which is in the same family of drugs but is classified as an antiprotozoal. (I tried both for my birds.)


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

I have heard of a med for giardia called Ronidazole. I assume I need a script for it?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

You do in the US, I don't know about for you. Supposedly there are some dilute OTC forms of it that are used in farm birds, but I wouldn't want to mess with that in 'tiels.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

enigma731 said:


> You do in the US, I don't know about for you. Supposedly there are some dilute OTC forms of it that are used in farm birds, but I wouldn't want to mess with that in 'tiels.


We probably need a script too, as it is not available in any pet store in the meds section...
They do sell something diluted on eBay, but it is for pigeons and I wouldn't trust it...


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Yeah, I mean, my feeling on that is that if I'm going to give my birds a treatment as a rule-out, I'll want to be sure it was done correctly, you know?

ETA: By the way, if you do treat for giardia, you'll also need to thoroughly disinfect your birds' environment a day into the treatment, midway through, and just before the end of it. Because giardia forms cysts, it can persist in the environment for a very long time and reinfect your bird. I used F10, but my vet also recommended a dilute bleach solution allowed to dry completely in sunlight. You'll have to throw away anything that can't be disinfected, like shreddable toys. (IMO the cleaning part of the protocol sucked way more than giving the meds.)


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

They also sell something to disinfect cages at the pet store.
Wouldn't putting the toys in boiling water kill all possible contagious agents? There is a toy in particular that he really loves...

PS: He always takes a shower in the cage, so the cage is also showered, but of course it is not the same as disinfecting.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Yes, I meant things that wouldn't survive being wet in any way.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Well, I think I will try the filtered water and the apple cider vinegar for now and when I go to the vet again in a couple of months we will try the med if he is still plucking.
I guess a drop would be enough for his water feeder?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I don't know, I'm sorry. But I think you can look up vinegar dilutions that people use to clean produce against giardia.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

In dogs and cats we now treat giardia with metronidazole. Never heard of the other drug but I don't work with birds at this vet hospital so I don't know. It does work rather well, but I would definitely seek a vet first.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Thank you. In the meantime, the apple cider vinegar will arrive tomorrow. 
He is doing slightly better at the moment. Some extra cuddles (even while I am doing something else - ah, I wish I had three hands!!!)) seem to have diverted his attention. At least he has a few feathers on his chest, while both his chest and neck were completely naked until about 10 days ago.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

I had found this: http://www.birdsupplies.com/unruffledrx-fleece-bird-collars-mild-pickers/
I thought it was really nice because it is not hard/rigid and he could have fun with it, but they only ship internationally for orders over $50.
However, I could probably make it myself?? What is the best material I can use and how large should the neck hole be?


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

This would be nice I think for a grey cockatiel with a very yellow face:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Polar-Fl...-MIN-BUY-1m-/301552362114?hash=item4635ebe282

I also found this: https://www.facebook.com/ProtectiveParrotPetalsByPam


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Yea it looks like it was made with fleece so that would definitely be something to try!


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Thanks, yes, it looks pretty...
Yesterday I also go the apple cider vinegar and gave it to him for the first time. I did some research as to the quantity and put about 5ml in about 1/3 of a liter of water.
I noticed that his poop is different today. He had more poop and it was more watery? Is it normal? Is it a side effect of apple cider vinegar?
PS: He is the same as usual.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Yes that can be a side effect. When I gave it to my birds, I usually put a cap full in their bowl of water, which was probably about a cup of water. I would keep an eye on the poop and adjust it as needed.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

I have tried spraying some water on his chest when he plucks. I thought it might be good because 1) he might pluck because his skin is dry and 2) because he doesn't really like it, so when he plucks if I spray his chest he associates it with something he doesn't like.
What do you think?


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

littletiel said:


> I have tried spraying some water on his chest when he plucks. I thought it might be good because 1) he might pluck because his skin is dry and 2) because he doesn't really like it, so when he plucks if I spray his chest he associates it with something he doesn't like.
> What do you think?


Astonishingly it seemed to help in the last couple of days or so...


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Whatever gets him to stop right? We have used the bitter apple spray for dogs to keep them from messing with their catheters but not on birds that I know of. Once he stops picking it will give the feathers a chance to grow back.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

roxy culver said:


> Whatever gets him to stop right? We have used the bitter apple spray for dogs to keep them from messing with their catheters but not on birds that I know of. Once he stops picking it will give the feathers a chance to grow back.


He's also going to get Featherrific from the USA for Christmas.  I know he can do it and I will help him and keep an eye on him non-stop when I am here.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

As a good start, his skin is now not irritated any more (it never bled from plucking, but sometimes it looked like when we scratch or rub ourselves). It now looks uniformly pale pink, so fingers crossed he has not damaged the follicles, or not too many, and that the feathers will grow back. You can see from my avatar that he used to have a very nice neck and chest...


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## kurui (Jul 24, 2012)

Just to let you know there is a different test for giardia that is (apparently) pretty much 100%. My avian vet tested for giardia DNA rather than looking for organisms, which aren't shed in every poop. It doesn't really sound like your little guy has giardia anyway to be honest but maybe worth discussing with your vet if you're concerned!


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

kurui said:


> Just to let you know there is a different test for giardia that is (apparently) pretty much 100%. My avian vet tested for giardia DNA rather than looking for organisms, which aren't shed in every poop. It doesn't really sound like your little guy has giardia anyway to be honest but maybe worth discussing with your vet if you're concerned!


Yes, thanks, I will definitely mention the possibility to the vet. I am surprised she didn't think of it at all... I think it is hormonal/compulsive behaviour, but I think it is better to be cautious and consider all possibilities.


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