# Jerry's mysterious head shake



## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

We took Jerry and Skye, as well as four of my budgies, to the avian vet across country on Monday.

Jerry was obviously plucking feathers since we got her and Skye has always had a bald patch under her wing, so we wanted to get them checked. 

It was a very long drive (10-12 hours) to the vet and when we reached there, the cockatiels had green sticky droppings on the floor. But they were well formed. I was not too concerned because it was a long trip and they were not able to drink much. 

The vet examined them for parasites and could not find anything but gave a dose of medication in case there were internal parasites and prescribed fluoxatine for 21 days to see if it would reduce the behaviour as well. They were given their first dosage there. 

Jerry puked some medication in 15 minutes. Skye kept it in. Because we did not know how much of the medication Jerry kept, the vet did not give more in case she did not puke it all out. 

After we got necessary medication (enrofloxacine and vitamin A for whole budgie flock), we went back home, another long drive, which was during the night. 

When I took the cages back home and uncovered the cockatiels, I saw that Skye's head feathers were smelly and dried in liquid vomit. It smelled bad. Her droppings were paste like and very very dark grassy green and she had lost 6 grams based on my own scale. 

Jerry seemed fine except for similar but better droppings. I took photos of the droppings and sent them to the vet and he recommended that I put them on the medication he gave for budgies as monitor them. He also recommended Hills a/d prescription food so Skye could gain weight.

Of course I cannot find it here and I managed to get her to eat other things eventually and she is very slowly getting better, but Jerry has started some weird head shakes...

I have uploaded two videos on Youtube. I know I should take them to the vet again, which would have to be another one close to me because my boyfriend left the country today. I wanted to see if anybody recognizes the type of headshakes, because with the vet I have to take them, I need to do a very thorough research beforehand.

Here are the links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXJgARJJP-Q&feature=channel&list=UL

http://youtu.be/L69wI5F1KXE

Do any of you recognize this? I do not know if Jerry puked since Monday vet visit. There was one more puke that got all over their cover I found Wednesday morning but I could not tell which one did. (I suspect Jerry though)


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

The head shakes themselves are not an abnormal behavior. My birds both do this when something is irritating them, like a noise they don't like or even their own dust in the air. However, if she's doing it excessively or seems distressed by it, then it might be a neurological symptom or a sign that something is making her feel ill. 

Is there a pattern to when the head-shaking occurs? Is it right after you administer the medication, or when something is present in their environment?

Clarify for me what medications you're currently giving the 'tiels -- Are they still on fluoxetine? If so, it can cause nausea and motor tics as a side effect. I would call the vet and see what he thinks of the symptoms you're observing. Fluoxetine is the non-commercial name for Prozac, which is still a somewhat experimental drug in birds. Enrofloxacin (Baytril) can also cause nausea and loss of appetite in some animals.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

My birds twitch their heads like that when a sound hurts their ears. With Jerry, the twitching doesn't seem to be related to vomiting at all, and I don't hear any special kind of noise in the background. Maybe the medication made his hearing more sensitive than usual. Or maybe it made him feel a little bit "different" inside his head and he's trying to shake it back into a more familiar feeling.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

tielfan said:


> Maybe the medication made his hearing more sensitive than usual.


If it did, that would be a side effect which does not occur in humans -- possible, though. One other thought is that fluoxetine causes dry mouth in humans. I wonder if it's possibly making Jerry's nasal passages somewhat irritated.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I thought that the hearing bit was a long shot, simply because there wasn't any obvious noise in the video to trigger it. But there are a number of ways that a medication could literally mess with his head and make him twitch at the unfamiliar feeling.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Sorry I was not clear on details  I did not give any more of fluoxetine since the vet visit because they had funny droppings and we started them on baytril and vitamin A. 

I dont know what is causing the head shake, it started this evening. I am still watching her when I am writing this and I have just seen her scratching her neck as if something is irritating her, maybe some greens got stuck and dried there (they are messy salad eaters lol)

I will check it and let you know.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Okay. I think it's probably good that you didn't give more fluoxetine, since they both seemed to have a bad reaction to it. I am not sure what to say about the vomiting -- could be the Baytril, or it could be that they both had some sort of underlying infection which was brought out by the stress of the vet trip. 

The head shaking I would just watch for now. My birds will sometimes do it for a while if they've gotten a bit of fluff in their eye, or something like that. If it continues, then I would consider it as a possible symptom of something else. 

Why are the budgies on Baytril? It would be helpful to know why the vet suspects that there may be an infection in your flock. 

Also, how do the tiels' droppings look now? Can you post some pictures of the droppings for us to look at?


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

I have not found anything stuck, but she is also scratching her beak on the cage bars now and head shake is less, but still there. They are going to sleep (beak grinding time yay). 

I will take both of them into the shower tomorrow while waiting for e-mail from their vet. 

Poor thing, she is still occasionally shaking her head when she is beak grinding. I hope she did not find something to chew on with metal in it. I do not know how the vet that is close by would find it if that is the case and I would probably have to insist on chelation therapy then, hoping they are familiar...


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Try not to assume the worst for right now. It's entirely possible that this is just a minor irritation and she will be better in the morning.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

4 of the budgies are on baytril because 2 of them have had ongoing respiratory problems and the other vet did not find anything (she did not check too much, she just listened to their lungs and said it wasnt in their lungs) One of them started breathing on the cage bars right before we left for the vet and one of them is refusing to fly. 

The avian vet did gram stain and found bacteria, he said there could also be fungal problem too (like aspergillosis) but we would go that direction if the baytril did not help. Since the lazy one is in the same room as the other sick ones due to getting bullied by the healthy ones, he is on medication, too. 

The cockatiels had e.coli in the beginning of summer, we had water contamination due to excess heat. They were treated and they recovered, gained their weight back. The symptoms including the droppings were exactly the same, that was also why the vet recommended putting them on baytril and vitamin A when I informed him of Skye's situation. I thought the vet trip brought out some small amount of e.coli but who knows..

I am changing the paper in their hospital cage now. When fresh ones come, I will take photos to upload.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Here is her latest poopie










Due to yellow/orange lighting, it looks like urate is yellow, but it is just the light i could provide. The flash makes it disappear completely 

It is small but does not look too drastic at the moment. (She had been playing around me and had not eaten much before this dropping, it could be why it is small) It is certainly not dark grassy green with paste-like texture, so I am a bit relieved and I do not see anything to suggest there is blood. 

Fingers crossed :wacko:


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Jerry still had head shake today, even during her nap; but she also scratched around her neck, head and nose too so i gave her a shower. She is sleeping in the towel on my lap now, all wrapped up like a baby LOL 

She has not had another head shake since shower but I will wait and see how she is once she is dry and awake. 

The vet will be able to watch videos tomorrow morning and call me.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Jerry's head shake started again when she dried. She is also sleeping more than usual 
Her head is tucked under her wing and she is on one foot, her head shakes every now and then when she is sleeping 

I hope the vet can give some ideas so I can make research and take Jerry to the other vet with some confidence


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear that it's still going on.  The dropping in the picture you posted looks normal to me. Is there any chance she could have an ear infection, or have gotten some of the medication in her airways/sinuses?


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

She has been on baytril since monday, so I dont know what she could have. She is able to fly well. 

Her droppings were similar today, had a bit more liquid in some of them, though. But she did not eat much. She was curious and playful during the day, but she is sleeping now. It could also be due to the fact that it is 9pm here and I am keeping quiet so she can have her rest better. She slept very late last night because i was watching her a lot.

I got her to have some misty shower today. She slept in the towel and preened a lot afterwards. Funny thing is, I did not see her head shake when she was busy preening. That was why I was hopeful it had gotten away, but it is back. 

I will post updates, if there is any. I will post what the vet says, too.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

More observation on Jerry:

She might have a problem with her ear. She shakes her head even more when i make kissing sound to her. And she gets very aggressive whatever is around when she hears sounds like that, which is very unlike her. She is the sweetest bird I know, she does not mind hands etc around her head, but she gets annoyed at the hands close to her ear at the moment and pushes them away.

She can still fly well but I am not letting her fly much, just in case and she is not really attempting to fly today. 

Maybe it is indeed an ear infection 

My poor baby  What could be done to find out? What kind of test? She is already on baytril.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It sounds like the head-shaking may be related to a lack of moisture/humidity. If the air in your house is dry, you can add moisture by running a humidifier if you have one, or by hanging up wet towels in the room.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

I have held her and kissed her, gave scritches for a while today and I have realized that she does not shake her head when I am doing these. If she had a neurological and uncontrollable shake, maybe she would still do it.. But then why would she do it during her nap?

The vet said he cannot say much from the video while her breathing and alertness seem well. 

I have set up the humidifier to see how things develop. They are watching this new one very cautiously right now as if the blue light will jump at them any time LOL

I am also making appointment with the other vet.


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## CookieTiel (Feb 6, 2012)

Hopefully the humidifier will help, and I hope that it's not an ear infection. You could also leave her in the bathroom with you when you take a shower, just so she can breathe in the warm steam. Hope things turn out fine soon.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Humidifier has been on since 4 hours ago and Jerry is taking yet another nap. 

She is not eating much, so she lost weight. She was 125 five days ago, went down to 114 in last two days and now she is 108  
Because she was way too overweight, she still has quite some fat stored in her until we find out what is wrong. She had an infection in her digestive system, so it could be the cause for that, though. (We ordered pellets from abroad to switch every bird. The salad I grow is not enough for 14 birds) 

Anyway, her head shakes are not as bad as yesterday, but they are still there. At least she is not shaking her head when she is sleeping now. 

I also realized something, one of her nares is red and she scratches that one a lot, the other is normal. I couldnt see anything in it. 

I am losing my mind :'(

I hope the vet finds out the problem... Not holding my breath, though..


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Do what you can to keep her eating. Even though she's overweight, a sudden dramatic weight loss isn't good for her.

Keep up with the humidifier too since it might be helping. It's possible that her nare was irritated by the dryness and she made it worse by scratching at it.

When you get the new pellets, go slowly and carefully with the diet conversion. I have more info on my website at http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/nutrition-conversion.html


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

I have handfed some liquid food with electrolytes in it and it seems to have reminded her that she is hungry I offered extra sunflower seeds because she likes them a lot, and she started eating YAY!

And she is busy with preening and eating a bit, my sweet girl <3

Head shakes are much less right now, oh I hope it is only dryness and the weight loss is unrelated. 

After my dinner, I will also give her a few drops of water with honey in it for some energy. 

I have read all about switching the on your site before, I will make some notes to put on the fridge now that the pellets are finally coming  My vet is trying to get distribution of Harrison's in Turkey, I hope he can do that and I dont have to worry about people in the customs 

Thank you so much <3


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

I dont want to jinx it, but Jerry ate all her food, gained 2 grams and she is not shaking her head any more. If she is doing it, it must be very infrequent now because I have not seen it since I woke up.

Aaah I think my sweet girl is getting better!

She is now calling for me, Ms Attention lover 

She might be calling for my bf, too, though. She is really in love with him.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Great news! I hope she continues to do well.


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## CookieTiel (Feb 6, 2012)

Glad to know that Jerry is doing better!!


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Jerry was doing a bit better, the bad texture and colour of her droppings have gone away and her head shake is not there like before. She still does it every now and then, though.

But I am taking her to the vet again tomorrow, because she does not want to eat anything but millet and sunflower seeds and she has gone down to 102. She also sleeps, puffs up and becomes annoyed when a sound disturbs her (which is not like her, at all) She also puked a little yesterday, again with a feather in it (aaaaaaargh she still eats feathers!) I have been hand feeding her some liquid food and offering her favourite greens to encourage eating, since she seems to remember to eat then. I am frustrated!!!

The vet will take her in for tests and observation. I got 2 rescue budgies (very very sick ones) today, so I will get help from a friend and take them there, too. 

My house is like a bird hospital right now. The kitchen looks like a pharmacy 

I am looking forward to my babies getting better. 

Thanks for your concerns


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## RedQueen (Feb 21, 2012)

Hope things go well at the vets and your babies get better soon! Good luck!


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## CookieTiel (Feb 6, 2012)

Hope everything goes well at the vet!


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Well Jerry was much more active today but I still took both her and Skye. She recognized the vet right away and made happy chirps lol.

The vet said that she did not lose much muscle, she mostly lost fat and it was probably the disease and because the new food she has does not have sunflower seeds in it. (I had gotten a temporary mix until the pellets arrived) She took a swab to see if there was a relapse from her e.coli due to stress of travelling to Istanbul. Since she had been on antibiotics for a while and her poopies cleared up, she will be on vitamins until the results come in. I left her at the vet, as well as the rescue budgies. She will bring the place down LOL. The vet takes the cockatiels to her house for the night, and I strongly advised her to use a dark cover because Jerry can be very demanding when she wakes up 

Her overall condition seems good, minus the weight loss and less activity, she said. Apparently it worked that I force fed her liquid food and greens and gave isotonic through water to keep her blood levels proper. She maintained well during sickness. Oh bless her heart, she must be demanding love and attention now or munching on the spray millet now


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Update:

They indeed found the same strain of e.coli in her swab and she is (also Skye) on medication right now so that she does not have a relapse again. I am re-disinfecting everything before I bring them back home 

The vet says they both eat well, they finish the food they have now. It is good because I was throwing away most of it and giving new ones every day to make sure they were not re-infecting themselves through food. Now they are finishing it woooo! :clap:

They are also very active and happy, she said. I miss them so much


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

That's great news!! Has the vet mentioned anything about probiotics after the antibiotics?


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

No but we had discussed it before and we cannot find any bird specific probiotics in my country. I will order it online but it will not be here in time, so maybe I will give bio yoghurt a bit. They are not mammals, and their GI tract has different balance, different strains of flora, so I am still not too sure about it, though.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

I am livid.

Yesterday I went to pick up Jerry and Skye from the vet and I found a much sicker and lighter bird!!!!!!!!!

She lost so much weight and the vet did not even have a clue that she did! She was in 100-103 range when I took her there and she is 90 right now! 

She was also covered in dried puke and she had just puked when I got there, too. I asked for another test, and got my birdies home. I am losing my mind.

The vet said she didnt see any head shake, but I think it might be because she didnt LOOK! Jerry still has it and I am so angry. The vet used two antibiotics on her and she got a bit better at first, then she went sick again (though I dont know if she really went better because the vet doesnt seem to have a clue if she is getting better or not, apparently)

I dont want to keep giving her antibiotics if it is not necessary, so I asked that test and brought her home. She was so cold and the vet did not even give them extra heat, which is the first step to maintain a sick bird's health as stable as possible!

I am really losing my mind over this. Her breast bone is sticking out so much... I washed her with nice, warm water yesterday and wrapped her, kept her on my and later under the heat lamp to make sure she dried without getting cold. After that she ate some millet, which is not the actual problem at all. She eats, but she pukes it out. I gave her some liquid food but she is just spitting it out, but I still give her. Even a tiny bit she swallows counts.

I called the avian vet and he is on vacation right now and I dont know when he would be starting his practice. I am stuck with a vet who is witless and cant see a sick bird if she danced before her nose, and I have no ideas to pursue. Could it be heavy metals? I found that they broke 2 bars of the hospital cage right before I took them to the vet, so maybe she was chewing on it and got sick?

I feel my hands are tied and it drives me crazy.


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

I'm so sorry you are going through this.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

meaggiedear said:


> I'm so sorry you are going through this.


Thank you. I just made a small test to see if Jerry is reacting to sound and yes, when I make that sharp kissing sound, she shakes her head even shakes herself at the moment. So sounds do disturb her. 

Any ideas?


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## Tielzilla (Mar 31, 2009)

that vet sounds totally useless and I would refuse to pay and definitely definitely report h im...that is ridiculous...until you get full testing done you won't know what is wrong with your baby..keep her warm definitely and try to keep feeding.. ...it could indeed be heavy metal poisoning..poor girlie..many hugs on the way...


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

The vet drove me crazy, indeed.

I bought some baby formula (there is no bird formula here) and luckily Jerry decided to not spit this one out. She was able to pass a well formed dropping afterwards and I got a chance to examine it. There was a couple of tiny pieces of undigested seeds in it. She does have e.coli in her digestive system and has that typical weird e.coli green and paste-like droppings, so I am not surprised about the undigested food, but I dont know if there is also megabacteria. If there is, it will be very bad because there is no amphotericin B here.

After her formula feeding, I put them back with heating and they munched on millet. Now I am keeping fingers crossed for her to keep them in. I will look into getting reglan for her.

If she has heavy metal poisoning and if it is a very small amount that would not be seen on Xray, there is no way the vets here can detect it. There arent any labs that are equipped to run tests on the amount of blood a bird can give. The vet isnt keen on giving the chelation therapy either (she had said something about giving vitamin supplements as a treatment and I still want to scream thinking of that) 

I had read birds that improved quite a lot after chelation even though no metal was detected in their system. If the injections are done under loose skin and nothing else works, I could give them under instruction of the avian vet (I hope he is not getting annoyed by me during his vacation)

I just keep thinking, thinking, trying to find a solution.

In the meantime, Jerry is still fighting to grab my necklace to play, she wants to play and fly and get scratches. It is as if I am the super skinny sick bird and she is a healthy one looking for fun!


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## CookieTiel (Feb 6, 2012)

omg, what a horrible, horrible vet. I can't believe he wasn't paying any attention to your bird!!!! I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's good that the baby formula is working and Jerry doesn't puke it. At least you know that you can feed her that, and it's nutritious! As to the metal, do you think she could have been poisoned by biting the metal that little? Because Cookie has chewed on metal before without me looking, and she didn't get sick. Hope things get better.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

How awful! I'm so sorry you had such a bad time with the vet. How soon until the other vet gets back? Sending good thoughts to you and your tiels.


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