# Abnormal feathers around neck, watery droppings



## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

Petey has been exhibiting some odd changes over the past few weeks. First and foremost I've noticed his droppings have gotten quite watery. Not to gross anyone out, but it almost looks like the bird version of "explosive diarrhea" half the time he poops. I read up on the abnormal droppings thread and did not detect any parasites in the stool and the stool itself is still solid. It's just A LOT of the liquid portion.

Then today while giving him a scritch (haven't done that in a while admittedly), I was dismayed to find his neck spotted with very hard yellow feathers. This has never happened before, and he has been having a pretty messy molt altogether this time around. I tried to find the thread about feathers like this being related to kidney problems but couldn't locate it. They're sort of tough to see in the photos below:




























What's your guys' opinion. Time for a visit to the avian vet?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Can we see pics of his droppings, too? That would help us better judge how abnormal they are.

The feathers on the back of his head aren't pin feathers, right? Sticky feathers on the head/neck can be a sign that the bird has been vomiting. I would try to clean him up and then watch him very closely. If you notice any vomiting, or if the sticky feathers recur, definitely time to see the vet ASAP.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Those just look like new feathers coming in with the keratin sheaths on. The keratin will fall off and they'll be normal yellow feathers.

As for the dropping, they can become more watery with stress, as well as other things. You can look under "polyuria" to read up on it. You can also post pictures here so we can take a look. 



> Changes in urine: The clear, watery urine part of a bird's dropping can change very rapidly according to diet, stress, excitement - or disease.
> 
> Increase. If a normal change in diet or emotion can't explain a dramatic or prolonged increase in urine, it could be an early symptom of a metabolic disease such as kidney disease. Poisoning, infections and drug reactions can also cause polyuria.


He *is* an abnormal yellow in my opinion..can you take him to a vet and have them check his uric acid and liver enzyme levels? If I remember right he was only eating seeds, which can easily cause liver disease.


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

Ah yes I forgot to mention to disregard the super yellow color of his feathers. I found out through this forum that Petey is a "Golden Pied" mutation, which is an unusually rich golden feather color bred by someone in central Florida back in the 90s. It's perfectly normal for him.

That's good to know about the feathers being a normal phase of molting. And ironically he just took a fresh poop as I was typing this so here's a picture. Pretty consistent with what he's been having for the past few weeks:










I can't think of anything that would've stressed him out aside from a recent trip to NY and him being mostly alone for a week. One would think he's gotten over it by now and he's gone longer stretches of no contact with us with no problems before. No change in diet, still just prefers seeds and an occasional munch on a Nutriberry.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I remember about the Golden Pied thing now..he eats all seeds? I would offer him veggies daily because eventually an all-seed diet will cause health problems.

Do you have a scale to weigh him on? I'm wondering if he is eating enough or losing his appetite? 

And stress: have you rearranged his cage, changed his diet, moved his cage, had more people around him, had less people around him, been around loud noises, etc. Any changes at all? (Other than your trip, that could be a possibility).


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Is that all one dropping in the picture? If so, that's pretty extreme polyuria, and if it's been going on consistently for weeks, then I would get a vet check.


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

Come to think of it I did rearrange his cage recently. Afterward he displayed an increase in tail-wagging and beak grinding, which are signs of contentedness so I figured he liked the change.

Definitely no change in appetite. This bird should be obese the way he gobbles seeds and the occasional millet treats. Still can't get him totally hooked on Nutriberries though, and veggies have been a losing battle from day 1. I never did try the special lettuce around the perch trick (Romain I think it was?) so will start on that.

And yes, that was all one dropping. It actually startled me when he did it, sounded like something heavy smacking on the paper so I thought he knocked a piece of his shred toy down. It was just one big dump :wacko:


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Molting in and of itself is stressful...so that could be where the stress is coming from to cause the weird droppings. But its definitely something to have looked at if it keeps persisting.


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

Perhaps the one I pictured was unusually awful. Here's another couple he made after that, each one is a separate dropping this time:


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I still think I would get it checked out. The fecal matter looks very unformed as well.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

The feces don't look very well formed either, in addition to the polyuria. If this goes on for much longer I really hope you see a vet.


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

I will be making an appointment then. Luckily for me there is an avian vet right in town, was just wanting to be sure there was indeed a problem before I brought him in. Thanks guys.


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## JaimeS (Nov 28, 2011)

I hope all goes well with Petey


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

A few questions....In the 3rd pix is that a light colored stripe going across the 2 feathers on the lower back? If it is a band on the actual feather this is what is called a stress bar.

Also, if I remember correctly Petey was also having those long wick-like feathers growing out on his lower back near the hips...is this still going on? If so, the kidneys are located below this area and these feathers do not hold warmth and can chill this area, which would result in the unformed and watery looking urates (white part) of the droppings.

You might want to consider a vet visit to have bloodwrok done to check uric acid levels.

The feathers on the back of his head look like pin feathers. You might have to preen (gently rolling them between your fingertips) them for him to help remove the outer sheath/covering.


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

Just got back from the vet. All feathers were completely normal for molting. Gram stain on the droppings revealed an abundance of gram (-) rod bacteria and also yeast, indicating gastrointestinal infection. Ironically I just started summer microbiology and literally just learned all that terminology.

Anyway, he was prescribed two antibiotics to be given orally twice daily. When I got him home I gave him his first dose and of course butchered it. First attempt I completely missed his mouth due to his squirming, and second attempt I squeezed the syringe too fast and he choked on it. A little came out of his nose but I think he swallowed the rest.

I asked what may have caused the infection so I can avoid it in the future and he said if I wasn't feeding him bread (I wasn't) then it could just be a combination of plain stress and bad diet. For the life of me I still can't imagine why he'd be stressed so I'll chalk it up to a life of crappy seeds diet finally catching up to him. Doctor said he looked thin yet still weighed the average 85 grams, so I guess Petey is just bigger than average and still needs to put on a little weight. He also recommended Higgins seed mix for a much better diet, which I went out a bought right after the visit. Will keep an eye on him for the next 10 days and work on my syringe technique...


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Glad they figured out what was wrong with him, now he can get better. Molting is stressful, so that could be where the stress came from. Plus changing his diet is also stressful.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Wishing Petey a speedy recovery. I'm glad the vet figured out wha was wrong. Keep us posted on how he's doing.


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

Well, it's been 5 days of the treatment now and the diarrhea has only gotten slightly better. He still lets loose some severely watery poops but the white part of the dropping has returned. Before it was pure liquid. I guess it's progress.

The real issue now is if he is going to harm himself over taking the antibiotics. Every time is a pretty ugly affair. There's a lot of violent thrashing when restraining him and it would appear this bird would rather inhale the medication than swallow it. I have another thread up on the matter.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I just answered your other thread.  It is a good sign that the urates are looking more normal. Are the antibiotics prescribed for 7 or 14 days? It may actually take the full course of antibiotics and then a course of probiotics before his droppings are totally back to normal. Antibiotics kill the bad bacteria as well as the good, so things may seem a bit off until he gets his normal levels of gut flora established again.


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

Yes, thank you for that 

The instructions state that the two antibiotics are to be given every 12 hours for 10 days. I do have a feeling as well that it will take the full 10 days to get this guy healthy again.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Sounds good.  Do you have a probiotic already? If not, start making plans to get/order one now so you'll have it when the antibiotics finish. You'll definitely want to give him a course of it to get his gut flora back in balance. Some people have had good luck with plain organic yogurt, or human acidophilus capsules, but I personally prefer the bird-specific powder ones. I've had good luck with Benebac in the past, and am going to try AviTech as soon as my order arrives.  Powders are easy to sprinkle on food, or give as part of a treat.


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

The vet did tell me I'd be getting a follow up call around halfway through the regimen so I'll ask him about a probiotic course.

I've also realized how he got his infection now. I used to use a plastic silo-style water dispenser in his cage because I liked the idea that the water was protected from debris. In reality, the little spout only funneled all that nasty stuff into one spot if it wasn't cleaned often and the plastic itself harbors bacteria more easily. When we went away to NY for that week, I didn't account for the fact that our family friend was only instructed to replenish the water, not to actually clean the spout fixture. When I got back I did notice that little spout was particularly filthy, and he had been drinking right out of it all that time. Sure enough, I noticed his symptoms not too long after we had gotten back.

Lesson learned. Metal food and water bowls ONLY.


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

Droppings update.

Still excessively watery, but it looks like the fecal matter is regaining a solid shape. (GROSS ALERT :wacko: )





































In that last one you can see Petey's most annoying habit of pooping down the side of his cage


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...in looking at the poop you will know that the infection is cleared up when white the urates are not scattered looking, and are all together in one section of the droppings.


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

Wow, here's a new one. Red?? :wacko:










What in the world is going on inside this poor bird...


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Does he eat red pellets? If not, then he has bleeding in his lower GI tract.


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

I can think of three things. 1. There _are_ a couple of red pieces in his new healthier seed mix, but he appears to rummage through all that for the seeds only. 2. He has been playing with a shred toy today that includes red confetti. I'd like to think he's not swallowing it but I guess maybe he is? 3. One of his antibiotics is pink. But I gave that to him at 12 noon today; wouldn't it show up in his poop sooner than 11 hours after the fact? 

I dunno. If he's seriously got internal bleeding now I guess these antibiotics aren't doing much. I'll call the vet tomorrow.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

It could be the food. I would keep an eye out and if it continues then call the vet.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I think I would call the vet tomorrow anyway. It seems like you should be seeing more improvement in the urates by now. You're more than halfway through the course, right?

ETA: The red doesn't really look like blood to me, though. It's hard to say, of course, but I tend to think of blood in droppings as much darker.


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

The dose at 12 tonight will complete the 7th day. Yesterday and the day before did show signs of improvement in the droppings, but today he's gone back to almost spraying when he poops, and now I'll have to monitor these red ones. Gah, and I'm going back to the university on Sunday and will be there for 4 days to take an exam for my online class. This bird really needs to get better soon 

Here's a page I found containing a picture of true bloody droppings:

http://www.cockatielcottage.net/droppings.html

Definitely not what he has. It looks more like normal droppings stained reddish brown. That page says this could be an indication of heavy metal poisoning. Not sure how he would've picked that up...


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I would definitely call tomorrow, then. As a general rule, meds should show effect by about 72 hours, and you should see consistent improvement from there on. By day 7 of a 10 day course, he should be almost completely symptom-free. Sending you good thoughts.


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

This could also have to do with his vehement refusal of the meds. The cherry-flavored small dose pink one he appears to swallow each time, but it's the yellow big dose one that's the problem. I'd say he barely chokes down half of it and the rest is either spit out or blown out of his nose. Guess he'll be making another visit. $$$


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

You might ask about injectible meds. They're longer-acting, and will be more effective if he refuses to swallow the oral ones.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I agree, Allie is giving me problems and I'm working on her with them but I've already discussed injectable meds with the vet.


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

Whelp, we finally had a dosing session where nothing was blown back out of the nose. The trick is I have to give him his 1.5 mL Nystatin antibiotic in 0.5 mL increments. This is the yellow medicine that must taste really nasty to him, as the cherry flavored TMP/SMZ he seems to have no problem swallowing. At 0.5 mL it's only a drop at a time and then I have to hold his beak closed and gently tilt back. It actually goes down that way. Repeat two more times and he's done, no gurgling, sneezing, coughing, spitting, etc. Perhaps now we'll get some actual improvement.

Droppings are still reddish brown but show hints of green returning. Hopefully they'll be green when I wake up tomorrow. I got a good look at his vent and surrounding feathers too, all surprisingly squeaky clean. They say with diarrhea there will be poo caked on it and the surrounding feathers. Not the case here.


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

Droppings update.

Poop looks a lot better today. It's green again, more compact, and white urates coming back:


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

Just got back from the follow up vet visit. Here's the situation.

First off, I had them do a DNA test to see if Petey is a he or a she. I recently discovered in another thread that the little dance he does once in a while is female mating behavior. Will know the results in two weeks.

Of course the primary reason for the visit was a follow up gram stain. The fecal matter has regained solid shape and the urates has returned, but the polyuria is still extreme. Gram stain showed nothing out of the ordinary so the initial infection has cleared up. The vet thinks the persisting polyuria is due to chlamydiosis, which he says all birds carry dormantly but flares up when under stress. He prescribed a 45 day treatment of Doxycycline in the water, which is far easier than oral medications. He says if the polyuria doesn't abate within two weeks under the new treatment plan, then we are looking at liver issues that will need another treatment. However, he also doubted it was the liver because he gained 15 grams since the last visit. He is now 100 grams, and the doctor says he still looks a little thin so could stand to gain even more weight. He said Petey is one of the biggest tiels he had ever seen, lol.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Have you done any probiotics yet? I often find that my birds have polyuria for a few days after finishing antibiotics, and probiotics seem to clear it up. Of course, still do give the treatment the vet prescribed, but I'd start some probiotics too.


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

Crud, even after all that reminding you did I still forgot to ask the vet about probiotics. I'll call and ask tomorrow.


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## PC9850 (Feb 22, 2012)

Poop update.

Yesterday, before the Doxycycline Petey's poop was lime green and while it had regained shape and urates, still extremely polyuric. Today, after the first two bowls of Doxycycline water, the polyuria has ceased altogether and the color is now orange. I am extremely pleased with the immediate response and am assuming the color change is simply due to the meds. It's almost too good to be true. Will continue the Doxycycline water for the full 45 days to completely beat this out of his system.

The big one to the right is a grouping of several different droppings. Nice aim Petey.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

That looks much better! Thank you for continuing to pursue treatment for him.  I know it's frustrating when it doesn't work right away.


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