# Did I expect to much?



## Pidge (May 30, 2012)

I picked up my hand fed baby tiel up yesterday (hatched 27 March, weaned a two weeks ago) and I absolutely adore him but I'm left feeling that I may have expected to much from him since he was handfed.

The first thing that sort of disapointed me was that the breeder just grabbed him out of his cage - which he clearly did not like. I guess I expected since he was a handfed he would readily 'step up'. The breeder said that he was cuddly tame therefore would fly away from a finger therefore just grab him (obviously I was showed a safe way to do so) and hold him to chest and cuddle. However whilst the breeder showed me he didn't exactly seem to be enjoying it :/ wiggling lots and then flew away. I thought that maybe he was just be like this because I was there and he didnt know me yet but it unnerved me a bit that the breeder recommended me to grab him...I always thought this would destroy any trust.


I brought him home and just sat by his cage talking to him letting him get use to the environment. This morning he ate millet from me but was very scared and nervous of my hands. He's very quiet I've only heard him chirp once but he is drinking and eating out of his dish fine.. I left the cage open whilst I sat across the room reading a book, he flew out and it really scared me because he was crashing into everything (I had covered all windows and mirrors though), he's fine though and climbed up the leg of his cage and is climbing round his cage. 


Is this normal behaviour and he's just scared because he's in a strange place? *I think its just bothering me how nervous he was with the breeder and how he was just grabbed.* My friend suggested that since he's been weened for 2 weeks he may not have much social interaction since then, all the babies that were currently being handfed were very friendly stepping up, flying onto us etc. The breeder suggested feeding 10grams of food in the bowl and then feed him 10 from my hand but I've ignored this advice and filled his bowl up with seed, but some nutriberries at the bottom and have put veg in for 30 mins on a seperate bowl and removed. Then fed him millet spray. Should I do what was reccommended or continue with what I have been doing?

I think since it's such early days and perhaps I was just expecting to much from him because he's handfed. I'm going to read the stickies on bonding and training and take it slow.


p.s His feathers missing under his wings (the equuivalent of our armpit) and round his neck (you can't tell unless you see him preening though and it doesn't look like bald patches) just like pin feathers but the skin looks quite pink, the breeder said these are just still growing in at the moment.


All in all I love my birdie so much , I just hope one day he'll love me back lol !


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I think you'll just have to give him time..I don't agree with grabbing a bird to remove it because that makes them scared of hands. So I think you should just try to taming and bonding techniques and I'm sure he will soon learn to step up for you and not be scared.

And the feathers missing under the wing is normal at a young age. There should be a little bit of feathering but it won't be fully feathered just yet.


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## delawaregirl (Dec 2, 2011)

I think that people think that because a tiel is handfed it will be well socilized but that is not always the case. Your thoughts seem to be accurate when it comes to what you were being told. Ts forum has a lot of great info on feedng, taming, bonding etc. With time and patience you will be able to tame and bond with your bird. Your instincts are good. As bjknight said try the taming and bonding techniques. Go slow and listen to what your bird is telling you. Good luck!!!!


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## Pidge (May 30, 2012)

bjknight -- Thanks for the info, I also think grabbing isn't nice, he looked really scared. He already seems like a total different bird just in a few hours...I think it's helped that my sisters dog has gone home (She was down shut down stairs but has a very loud bark lol). Thankyou for the info about the feathers  His tail feathers look pretty grubby too but I dont think he will agree to a bath just yet.

Delawaregirl --Yeah I think thats whats I had in my head, he was hand fed therefore he'll instantly be my best friend lol. He's stepped on to my a hand a few times since I posted, mainly just to reach a willow stick he wanted to play with but as he did I said 'good boy' and gave him some millet. He's currently sat on a rope perch on the ooutside of his cage making a funny noise with his beak...like a nail file lol. Other than that he is still not really made any noise (I'll be posting in a few weeks asking how to get him to be quiet no doubt lol!!).

Thankyou both for the great advice  He's my first cockatiel so I didn't know what to expect.

p.s quick question, do they need grit? The breeder gave me some and my bf said he gives it to his chickens but when I had a budgie I was told it can be bad so never bothered with it.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Cockatiels don't need grit but some people offer it to them. I don't give it to my birds.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Some breeders work with the babies in addition to handfeeding them. Others just handfeed and don't handle the babies. It sounds like your breeder did handfeeding only, and maybe your baby hasn't learned to step up or interact with people in other ways. 

It will be fairly easy to teach him though. He knows at least one thing about human hands - that food comes from them. So holding food in your hand for him to eat will go a long way toward teaching him to trust you and love you.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> p.s quick question, do they need grit?


Grit is controversial because there have been cases were a mineral-deprived bird ate excessive amounts of grit, impacted its crop, and died. The majority opinion on the internet is "don't" but I don't think this is a particularly well-informed opinion and in time this may swing back to a more balanced viewpoint. There are respected parrot experts who think grit is important, and that it's safe if you only provide small amounts so it's impossible for the bird to over-consume. I do give my birds grit and charcoal too, and they like it.

http://www.parrots.org/pdfs/all_abo...n/Minerals and Grit - of Vital Importance.pdf

http://www.parrots.org/pdfs/all_abo...trition/Views on Mineral Grit for Parrots.pdf

http://www.parrots.org/index.php/forumsandexperts/answers/ask_an_expert1/

http://web.archive.org/web/20100727122208/http://www.petpublishing.com/birdtimes/articles/grit.shtml

(The next one isn't by an expert, just a sensible opinion)
http://eclectusparrots.net/grit.html


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

From the sounds of it, the baby may have been handfed but not well socialized (i.e. grabbing out of cage, having to hold against chest to pet) and is probably afraid of hands for this reason. I would try the taming techniques as recommended and go at the baby's pace.


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## Pidge (May 30, 2012)

Thankyou for the links..Ive read the first few but the second to last one doesnt seem to work for me :/
So from what I read its basically saying grit becomes bad when too much is eaten, so if my tiel has a good healthy diet he wouldn't overload on grit so the grit would actually be good for him?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Hmmmmm....I am the type of breeder that someone would see my actions as 'grabbing the bird' out of the cage. When I was hand feeding I reached in and pick up each baby with my hand circled around their back and shoulders. And I would then hold them to my chest and pet them prior to hand-feeding. 

Can you clarify what you mean by grabbing.....such as did the breeder have to chase the baby all over the cage, and then abruptly and quickly pick it up? Or did they calmly reach in and pick up the baby?

*Please, in regards to the above* I am not defending the breeder, just voicing my impression of the posting.

As to your new baby, everything is new to it, and may take a day or two to settle in. It sounds like your baby is adjusting fine considering he/she is eating/drinking right away, and is eating millet from your hand.

Also, each bird has it own distinct personality and disposition, and even if it was handfed if it does not have a good temperament, it may not be up to the expectations of it's new owner. I have learned when I used to hand-feed and sell the best matches were when the bird walked up to and climbed on and picked it's new owner. The relationship starts off on the right food because the bird picked *you.* When this happens it does not matter how the bird was handled prior to meeting you, it instinctively felt safe and could trust you.

It sounds like your baby may be fully flighted (wings are un-clipped)....if so you might consider visiting the breeder a shop or a vet to clip off just a little of the length of the outer wing flight feathers.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> So from what I read its basically saying grit becomes bad when too much is eaten, so if my tiel has a good healthy diet he wouldn't overload on grit so the grit would actually be good for him?


Cockatiels can survive without grit, but it's part of their natural diet. It provides minerals and probably helps them digest their food more easily. You need to do your part to keep your bird safe by limiting the amount that's available, but yes - grit is probably beneficial as long as the bird doesn't overload on it. 

That's why I give it to my birds. Even though my birds have a good diet they still desire grit, and in the wild they would be eating as much as they wanted. I think that withholding grit is messing with nature, and my birds seem to have a pretty good idea of what they need. So I let them have sensible small amounts of grit.


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## Fweet (Apr 9, 2012)

We had the exact same experience with a 'grabbing breeder.' They said their birds were hand reared & tame but when we arrived they chased the poor things all round the cage, snatching at one with a wing sticking out; unsurprisingly it flapped off in panic bouncing off windows & walls looking absolutely terrified. In short, they were horrible to the birds treating them as objects to be sold with no attempt at being calm. We chose one that was still in the cage & got him into the transport box with as little fuss as possible but he was still totally distressed by the whole ordeal. As a result Otway was freaked out by hands & fingers for a long time, only agreeing to leave his cage if my hand was covered by a shirt.
It took several weeks before he stopped huddling in a corner & looking at everyone as if they were about to run amok with an axe but for his own benefit I had to get him used to my hands being in his cage whether he wanted to come out or not. We covered one end of the cage so he didn't get spooked 'from behind' as it were & went through a daily routine of sorting his food & water, cleaning up plop etc without trying to make him do anything he wasn't ready to do. Eventually he hopped onto my hand by mistake while trying to get at some millet so I stayed still until he hopped off & repeated this for several more days until at last he just decided he could bear it; I think he was ready for a fly about so I popped him onto the top of the cage where he could have a good look about.
The first attempts at flying were disastrous as he crashed & burned every time, busting his nose open & shrieking in panic. I'd gently pick him up, put him back on top of the cage & leave him to think but with the option of my shoulder nearby. After about six weeks he wasn't scared by my hands any more & saw my shoulder as a safe place but it took a lot of patience & gentle reassurance. If he sees hands doing any kind of grabbing motion or sudden movements he still reacts badly but he's still young & every day opens up his horizons a little more so I think he'll do ok but it's hard to see him still be so nervy. Patience, routine & food seem to be the answer, just like with dogs & people


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## Pidge (May 30, 2012)

Hey thankyou for all the replys 

Striels - I'm not really sure, the breeder grabbed the chicks being hand fed like you are describing (moving them back into the cage as they were all climbing out to be fed lol).My tiel was grabbed by two fingers either side of his neck if that makes sense, he ran round the cage flapping until he got caught, once against the breeders chest he scratched and nibbled but eventually gave up. However the breeder really tuck good care of the birds and was lovely so the tiel was prob scared of me and that was the onlyway she could get him out. Yeah I would have preferred to get a choice but the birds get reserved when they are two weeks old.

Tielfan- do you supply grit seperate bowl to food or just sprinkled at the bottom of the cage?

Fweet- I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with your tiels breeder and more sorry to hear otway ended up injurying hisself 9cute name btw), I hope it wasn't too bad. My baby who is stil unnamed has improved on flying today, he came out his cage and flew to me  however if he's not flying directly at me or his cage he ends up crashing . I'm gladto hear Otway has become more trusting of you, he could have easily gone to someone not as patient and caring as yourself and ended up going from home to home. 


Today my baby has been really engaged with me, he was running round the bottom of his cage this morning dropping sticks outside his cage for me to pick up ( this seems to be his favourite game, i think he likes the noise of beads etc dropping on the floor, I swear after he looks down as if to say 'are you picking that up or what' lol). He's also been flying to me, climbing all over me, perching on my shoulder, head and my hand however he doesn't like me actually touching him and only steps up when he feels like it rather than asked lol so I'm not gonna force him so just taking it slow .

I'm afraid I have got another question. sorry lol. Well he seems to be interacting with me loads but whenever I am just sitting next to him (he's chose to be next to me) he will nibble on my hand, or if he perches on me he will nibble my hand even though he's chose to perch on it, at first the nibbles were light but now he's doing it harder and its starting to hurt and get sore. I don't understand why when he's choosing to be near/on them. Is he testing me or do you think because he has been eating millet out off my hand he thinks if he bites them he'll somehow get some out of them? I've also been giving him things to chew on such as pieces of natural string (like paper sting), beads and willow sticks which he enjoys chewing, is letting him play with these somehow making him see my hands as chew toys? At the moment whenever he does it I either pretend it doesn't hurt and don't react , put him down or I give him a toy to distract him so he chews on that, im not giving him millet when he does incase this encourages the nibbling.

He's currenlt on my keybored helping me type this lol, he's put on overwrite and i've no idea how to switch it off, little tinker lol


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> .My tiel was grabbed by two fingers either side of his neck if that makes sense


This is actually an approved way to hold on to an unwilling bird. Veterinarians and people who band wild birds use this grip. There's a finger on each side of the bird's neck and the bird's back is against the palm of the hand. 



> do you supply grit seperate bowl to food or just sprinkled at the bottom of the cage


My cage has a grate in the bottom so the birds can't reach the cage paper. I put a small amount of grit in a separate bowl, and the bowl isn't in the main cage - the birds can only get to the bowl when they're out of the cage. 



> however if he's not flying directly at me or his cage he ends up crashing


The flapping part of flying is instinctive but steering and landing have to be learned. He'll get the hang of it eventually. If you think he's flying dangerously, a light wing clip can reduce his speed and altitude without taking away his ability to fly.



> he was running round the bottom of his cage this morning dropping sticks outside his cage for me to pick up


This popular game is called "avian fetch". It's the opposite of dog fetch, where you throw things for the dog to retrieve. In avian fetch the human does the retrieving. 



> he will nibble on my hand, or if he perches on me he will nibble my hand even though he's chose to perch on it, at first the nibbles were light but now he's doing it harder and its starting to hurt and get sore.


This is common with baby birds. They explore the world with their beaks, just like a human baby explores the world by putting things in its mouth. He's testing your hands to find out if they're edible, and he'll eventually stop doing it when he figures out that they aren't. 

You're wise to not give him millet when he does this, since that would reinforce the behavior. It's OK to move your hand away from the bird or move the bird away from the hand. Try to avoid doing anything that might seem like a reward for nibbling, but there's no harm in putting him down in a place where he can find something fun to do.


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## Pidge (May 30, 2012)

I knew from when I was had Budgies that that was a safe way to hold bird just being under educated in cockatiels I just expected that handfed cockatiels just automatically step up rather than be grabbed. Plus he didn't enjoy it so was worried this could cause him to hate being touched.

haha humans do the retrieving lol- it was cute the first 10 times but now...lol anything to keep him happy though lol!

Thankyou for the info on grit I'm going to buy a small bowl to clip on the outside tomorrow...

I like how he tests to see if my hands are edible but won't touch veg to see iif they are lol! Okay I'll just try to discourage it and hopefully it will pass .


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## Fweet (Apr 9, 2012)

'Avian fetch' - bwaahahaaa! how true 
Otway tries this with bits of grass stalk & looks seriously miffed when they vanish up the vac. He got hold of a cotton bud this morning & looked like he was baton-twirling with it, marching up & down the monitor. It looked so funny I gave in & yes, played Avian Fetch. 

Try giving him a broccoli or cauliflower floret, they look & smell nibbly tempting.


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