# Sad news



## willowsalbus (Nov 4, 2010)

Today I learned Albus has PDD (aka the Borna Virus). 

He's been sick for a while but we thought it was giardia, then lead poisoning ( he has a metal ball in his stomach, possibly from chewing on one of my necklaces. He was hospitalized for 4 days for that).

He was hospitalized because he was sitting on his perch and he just fell backwards. He did it twice more, too. And it startled him because he tweeted, like, what the heck just happened?

But as it turns out that was the PDD. 

I'm going to hold on to him as long as I can and just hope he hangs in there for years rather than months.


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## Daharkaz Angel (Aug 31, 2010)

My deepest condolances.....


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## Belinda (Oct 9, 2010)

That's terrible news... can you treat it at all?


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear this. How did they diagnose it?
The metal ball he has in the stomach, did they pick that up on xray? If so and it hasn't been removed he could have metal posioning, I don't see how he will improve unless it's removed, that could mimic the symtoms of pdd.


A friend of mine has lost a few birds to pdd, mainly macaws and conures, she's always had post mortems done which is how the find the cause of death, enalrged provinctulas, lesions on the brain etc, it's only often diagnosed finally in pm as there isn't s specific blood test at present to detect it, an xray may show an enlarged proventulas but not always. 

She is currently treating an Alexandrine with celebrex and has some seed but also speacial needs diet from the bird care company. If it is pdd and the vet prescibes celebrex quickly then it could slow down the nerve damage. As she explains it's not the actual virus that causes the symtoms it'sa the way the immune system reacts to it, that's why it's very difficult to produce a vaccine because it could amke things worse. She's not a member of any bird boards but if you have any questions I'll forward them on to her.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

Here's a link to birdcare company who make special needs diet.

http://www.birdcareco.com/English/Arts/Health arts/PDD/pdd.html


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## Sar (Sep 22, 2010)

I'm so sorry to hear Albus is so ill.


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## Nimfa (Jul 26, 2009)

I'm so sorry... I hope he'll get over it.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

Don't know if you've said anywhere but does his poo contain undigested seeds? 
That's often a symtom of pdd but it isn't always the first symtom to show itself, other conditions that can cause that are giarida and avain gastric yeast (megabacteria)

If he definately has a metal ball in his stomach I am more inclined to think it's that causing the falling/illness than pdd, which would be good news if you had a good avain vet that could remove the ball.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

I am so sorry and wish he gets better soon


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## willowsalbus (Nov 4, 2010)

Jess said:


> I'm sorry to hear this. How did they diagnose it?
> The metal ball he has in the stomach, did they pick that up on xray? If so and it hasn't been removed he could have metal posioning, I don't see how he will improve unless it's removed, that could mimic the symtoms of pdd.


They did a blood test and a feces test. Unfortunately, the blood tests don't lie  And yes, they picked it up on xray but can't remove it really, he was on chelation for a while to bind it to the blood or something. She told me since birds have 2 stomachs and they store things away, it could be awhile before he passes it. 



> A friend of mine has lost a few birds to pdd, mainly macaws and conures, she's always had post mortems done which is how the find the cause of death, enlarged provinctulas, lesions on the brain etc, it's only often diagnosed finally in pm as there isn't a specific blood test at present to detect it, an xray may show an enlarged proventulas but not always.
> 
> She is currently treating an Alexandrine with celebrex and has some seed but also special needs diet from the bird care company. If it is pdd and the vet prescibes celebrex quickly then it could slow down the nerve damage. As she explains it's not the actual virus that causes the symptoms it's the way the immune system reacts to it, that's why it's very difficult to produce a vaccine because it could make things worse. She's not a member of any bird boards but if you have any questions I'll forward them on to her.


Thank you for offering, I'll keep that in mind. My vet did say something about the immune system being compromised.

I actually just got off the phone with my vet talking about the celebrex, and she said he's on something else now that's in the same family as the celebrex, but it's a liquid and already in a veterinary form. So we're going to see how this works and if he gets worse switch to the celebrex and she even said gabapentin down the road (Neurontin).


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

Are you in America?
Over here in UK there aren't any blood tests or feacel test for pdd. My friend goes to a qualifed avain vet they can do bloods but they don't specifically have a test for pdd, they did xray on her last two birds that died and they came back normal, they can do a barium trace to see how slow the digestive system is working. It wasn't until they did a post mortem that it showed the cause of death of those two was pdd.


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## tielmom (Aug 4, 2010)

I am very sorry, I hope they are able to help your tiel.


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## willowsalbus (Nov 4, 2010)

Jess said:


> Are you in America?
> Over here in UK there aren't any blood tests or feacel test for pdd. My friend goes to a qualifed avain vet they can do bloods but they don't specifically have a test for pdd, they did xray on her last two birds that died and they came back normal, they can do a barium trace to see how slow the digestive system is working. It wasn't until they did a post mortem that it showed the cause of death of those two was pdd.


Yes, I'm American. I don't know what test was used to be honest, and it came back positive for the Borna Virus which is basically a synonym for PDD. It took a long time, but yeah, they were able to test for it.


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## busylittlebee (Sep 15, 2010)

Aww, I'm sorry to hear that. I've never heard of this before so I know nothing about it really, but I hope it can be managed!


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

I'll pass that info about testing for Borno virus onto my friend. I don't think much of the vet she sees although he is qualifed avain. I made a long journey down to see him and was not happy with the consult or his attitude at all.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

People have got some very bad attitude here in the uk which i call them stuck up


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

I told my friend, she knew the blood test comming but didn't know it was out yet, is it 100% accurate?


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

the test you might have gotten was a swap of the crop or something. as far as ive heard, theres no blood test for pdd. only a swab of the crop as it affects the digestive tract. the pdd cant be detected in blood, as far as ive heard. im in canada, right across the border from detroit.


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## willowsalbus (Nov 4, 2010)

Well, like I said, they needed his feces as well, 3 different times, actually. So I really don't know what they used. I'm not sure it's 100% accurate, but my vet was basically 99% sure, so I would assume so.

I'm really thrilled (and I probably just jinxed it) that he has started singing again and seems to be doing better lately.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Here's an article on testing for avian bornavirus: http://www.cvm.tamu.edu/schubot/testing.shtml

The most important part: "A positive test indicates that the bird is likely infected with some strain of ABV. A positive result from this one test does not imply that the bird is or will ever become ill from ABV."

Avian bornavirus is a precursor to PDD but doesn't necessarily lead to it. Here's more:
http://www.stoppdd.org/problem/pdd_faq.html
http://www.avianbiotech.com/diseases/Bornavirus.htm


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## willowsalbus (Nov 4, 2010)

hurm. thanks for the info.


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