# Bubu is sick and in hospital, should I take him back home?



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Hello everyone, my Bubu is sick and I need all the help I can get to understand what is going on and what is the best thing for me to do for him. 
Two days ago, Monday, I started to be aware that he was being quieter than usual. 
Apart from that he looked fine so I wasn't alarmed. 
Yesterday morning I noticed immediately after I let him out of the cage that he was puffy. I weighed him and he was 81 grams. The last time I weighed him, about two months ago, he was 97 grams so that really worried me.
The vet was operating so they told me to bring Bubu at the clinic so that he could be admitted, until the vet was able to check on him. After a few hours the vet called me, and said that Bubu didn't show any symptoms of obvious illness and the best thing to do was to leave him at the clinic overnight so that they could monitor him. 
This morning, when I called, the nurse told me that he was doing ok, he was active and eating, drops are ok, but he lost 2 more grams. Worst thing of all, the avian vet had a day off today so he couldn't visit Bubu; but he left word that Bubu was to remain in the clinic, given antibiotics, crop fed and nebulised.
Today I went to visit him, and he was so unhappy it broke my heart. 
As soon as I saw him I decided to take him home, keep him home for the night and then return to the clinic in the morning to have him examined by the vet; the substitute vet and the nurse convinced me to leave him there for the night so that he could be crop fed and nebulised more. 
Now, I am a complete ignoramus on the subject of cockatiels health issues, so I have to trust these people. But I am not convinced that it is in Bubu's best interest to stay there. 
I am afraid that tomorrow the vet will tell me that he wants to keep him longer so I desperately need your opinion on what to do about it.
This boy has always been with me, since he was 8 weeks old, and is extremely attached to me. Isn't it possible that staying away from home will make him sicker?
Another thing I am not happy at all with, I brought him some cooked quinoa because he adores it: he wolfed it down, and also some nuts he took from my mouth. Why crop feed a bird who is perfectly happy to eat? Is that normal practice?
In the cage he only had some seeds I had put in the carrier cage when I took him to the clinic. The only added millet spray. And the water bowl didn't look fresh.
I am trying to be calm and rational but it's not easy, I feel between panic and desperation, and I know this doesn't make a good combination for good decisions. 
To be completely fair, I never heard a bad word about this vet, and he saved my rat's life last year... but I can't trust this "clinic admission" unless someone else tells me that it is a common thing to do in cases when a bird loses weight for no apparent reason. 
Thank you for reading this extremely long post.


----------



## Paleghost13 (Sep 14, 2012)

I'm afraid I don't have any advice to give besides trust your instincts. You know your bird best and you are the one seeing the treatment. Don't be afraid to ask questions and demand to know why they are doing what they are doing, exactly why it is necessary, and what results should be expected and when. Your bird cannot talk (well, he probably can, but you know what I mean) and so he needs you to be his advocate. The vet should be able to tell you _exactly_ why he is keeping your bird overnight, why they are crop feeding when it doesn't appear to be necessary, why there isn't more food in the cage, and when _exactly_ he will be seeing the vet. If you don't get clear and logical answers, don't be afraid to leave and find another vet. You are a consumer as well as his owner and you have the right to take him where he will be best treated. They should make sure that you understand the treatment you are paying for and exactly what they are doing with your friend.

One thing I want to check on, since your post wasn't clear. Is this an avian vet and a clinic certified for birds? Many times regular vets don't have the knowledge or experience necessary to properly diagnose birds, which is why I am asking. How old is your little guy?

Sorry I don't have more specific medical advice to give. I hope this helps a bit. Good luck to you both, and I'll be watching for updates on the situation.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Hi Paleghost, thank you very much for the reply. He is specialised in small pets and exotic animals, I was researching the web for a specialist and found out that his clinic is located in the village where I live. The law isn't clear about this type of qualification so it's a matter of trust and reputation.
I complained about the food and the water, but knowing that Bubu was staying there I didn't want to make enemies with anyone. If it was myself staying in hospital in such an unclear situation I'd have raised ****. They said the crop feeding is to further help with gaining weight. I am afraid I wasn't thinking straight this afternoon so I didn't ask all the right questions. The doubts mainly raised when I came back home, re-thinking about it.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Bubu is 15 months old, sorry didn't read that question earlier. I really am useless at the moment.


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

How did they conclude that he needs to be nebulized and given antibiotics? Are there any tests being run here? That's the first step that should be taken in a situation like this, when a bird is rapidly losing weight without obvious symptoms. As far as keeping him at the clinic, I would have this discussion with the vet. If he is willing to eat on his own and does not seem weak, it might be worthwhile to take him back home. On the other hand, ill birds can decline very rapidly, so it is a risk. Unfortunately I'm not there with you, so I can't tell you what you should do.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

For what the vet told me on the phone the first day, they give him antibiotic etc to try maintain him stable and see if he gets better. 
He also said that he would run test tomorrow if everything else that's been done these 2 days has failed. Since he knows I have financial problems, maybe he is trying to avoid me huge bills. 
An online friend who used to keep birds was wondering if maybe it's a psychological reason due to the recent add of a new male tiel and the subsequent move to a bigger cage.


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

A 20% weight loss should not be due to emotional stress. It definitely sounds like there is something going on. I don't know if skipping tests will actually save money -- the tests themselves might be expensive, but in the long run it's probably cheaper to get the tests and find out the optimal treatment rather than paying for days of trial and error with your bird hospitalized.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

I absolutely agree. Will I have to leave him at the clinic while they run the tests and wait for the results? Or would it be a reasonable request from my part to take him home and nurse him myself?


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

If you don't think being at the clinic is benefiting him, then I would take him home while you wait on the results. On the other hand, as I mentioned before, there is always the risk that he could go downhill and you would not have access to the same equipment to treat him at home. You might ask what after-hours access would be, should you decide to take him home and then have an emergency.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

I will ask just in case something has changed but they are usually open all night and holidays for emergencies, sadly I learned that by personal experience.
I feel a bit better just having had the possibility to talk about it. Thank god this forum exists! And thank you Enigma, very much.


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I think if they are available in an emergency, then I probably would take him home if he were my bird. Keep in mind that I am not a vet and I can't see your bird, so this is only my personal opinion based on what you've told me. Definitely discuss things with your vet and push for the tests and treatment you think are best. Remember that you are your bird's best advocate.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

What really has me puzzled is that the other birds are in perfect health. They all live in the same cage, eat the same stuff, play with the same toys. I just hope with all my heart that Vet will find out the issue before it's too late.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I'll be thinking of him.  Please keep us updated.


----------



## nassrah (Feb 27, 2012)

Keeping you and Bubu in my thoughts-Listen to your heart-if you feel youre not getting answers,just bring him home,specially if they have an emergency service.All the best X x


----------



## Paleghost13 (Sep 14, 2012)

Could he have swallowed something that is causing a blockage? 

Don't know much about tiels, but I'm thinking about what I know about budgies. If the droppings aren't showing a problem, he isn't vomiting, he is eating, and is active, but is losing weight, that makes me wonder if somehow he isn't eating enough for some reason or isn't processing out the nutrition. Can you track how much he is eating and what kinds of food? This may be able to tell you if it is lack of nutrient intake or whether he isn't processing the food correctly.

You said above that you have a new male. Do they share the same cage? Is it possible that the new guy is bullying Bubu away from the food or is taking all the good bits for himself?

Based on everything you've said, I agree with Enigma, and if you are comfortable with it and have emergency plans made, bring him home. Perhaps you should try to house him separately from the other guys though, that way you can monitor his food more closely and prevent him from potentially passing an illness on to the others?

Good luck and I hope you get some answers from the vet soon!


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Paleghost13 said:


> Perhaps you should try to house him separately from the other guys though, that way you can monitor his food more closely and prevent him from potentially passing an illness on to the others?


Yes, an at-home hospital cage would be a good idea if you decide to go that route. Since weight loss is his primary concern, you'll want to do everything you can to support his metabolism. That way, all of his energy can go toward getting better and gaining weight. Here is information on how to offer supplemental heat: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=32919 and http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=32920 Please let me know if you decide to bring him home and need additional information on setting up a hospital cage.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Sorry for the late reply, I am on UK time and needed to get some sleep; I already called the clinic and they told me that Bubu has been active and feeding, also been fed by hand (no idea if that means crop fed or what else), but the receptionist didn't have the new weight on the report so basically no news.


Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

They told me that probably Bubu won't be seen by the vet until 11 or 11.30 and they will call me when it's time to go there and speak with the vet. 
To be honest I am tempted to go now and not leave until that happens; the only thing stopping me is that I don't want to be in the staff's way while they clean the cages etc. I already made myself quite notorious at the clinic with my constant calls and visits, so I'm trying to avoid being a complete pest...
I am reading the posts you linked for me, thank you so much, that's what I will need to do and thank God I still have the old cage so I can use that one as hospital cage.
I will have many questions about it so please bear with me, I will try my best to be a quick study!


----------



## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Let us know how things go. I hope the vet sees him today. I think I'd like to be there when the vet sees him if I were you...........


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

I went to the clinic and managed to see the vet... and I am not very happy about this whole business. They didn't even call me, so I went anyway and told them I'd wait all day if necessary but wouldn't leave without talking to the vet.
Bubu was looking a lot better this morning, he was pacing the cage, and very alert, plus he looked tidier; yesterday he was so scruffy.
The vet came to see me in the ward, didn't even examine Bubu, just said that Bubu gained some weight back and it was ok to take him home. He doesn't know what could be wrong with him, and when I asked him about blood tests he basically dismissed the idea saying that even if he did run the tests it wasn't guaranteed that he would find out what the problem is. 
What kind of weird reasoning is this? It's like saying to an ill person, there is no sense in running tests because we might not find out what's wrong with you! I am a bit speechless, to be honest.
Anyway I took my Bubu home, set the old cage in the bedroom, the room is as warm as an oven but he looks quite content in there. He has been eating but he's still so thin! They gave me a medication called Marbocyl and he must take 0.1ml every evening. 
Now he weighs 78 grams, which is a lot better than yesterday when he was down to 68. I just hope that he maintains it. The vet told me that if something starts to go very wrong I can bring Bubu back to them, but at this point I feel pretty much left on my own so I am very very worried.
It is also worrying the attitude he has towards Yoghi and Chicken; they whistle to him, and were quite excited to see him back home; and he doesn't answer. I brought him to the living room to say hi to them... he bit Chicken [the newest household member], puffed up then flew on a tall perch and ignored them. Now he is in the bedroom, in the cage, taking a nap and ignoring all the whistling going on from the other room. 
Right now I am giving him quinoa, hemp seeds, millet spray plus a bowl of the normal seed mix. He won't accept fresh greens right now, but maybe later he will eat some with me, he usually eats whatever is in my plate.
Is there some particularly nice and fattening food I can add to his usual favourites? maybe add a drop of olive oil to rice or pasta?


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If you offered him some handfeeding formula for baby birds, do you think he would eat it? That's high-density nutrition and not something that you'd want to give him on a long term basis, but for short term support during illness it could be useful. If he wouldn't eat it in traditional "mixed with water" form, maybe you could mix it into some kind of soft food that he likes.

I don't think you can get Harrisons pellets in the UK so this is just an example: Harrisons makes a high-potency pellet for special needs birds including breeding birds and sick birds. If you look at the nutritional analysis at the bottom of http://www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/ingredients.html you'll see that the nutrient level of HPF (high potency fine, the size for cockatiels) is almost identical to the nutrient level of the juvenile handfeeding formula.

If that doesn't work, a drop of oil added to the food would help add calories (although not much of anything else). It wouldn't do any harm to add a little brewers yeast; it's not a good source of calories but it's loaded with B vitamins which are helpful in stressful situations, and being sick is definitely stressful.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

I went to look in the cupboard because I had the feeling I heard the name before, and yes I was right, I still have a bag of "High Potency Super Fine Maximum Nutritional Formula for small birds", it has a bright orange label. Is it the one you meant? I bought it from this same vet when Bubu was younger, but he never ate them. At the time I was desperate for him to eat something else from seeds, eventually he started eating greens so I gave up on the pellets. 
Maybe if I mix them to some liquid, make them into a mushy consistence, and then add to pasta or rice I might be able to fool him into eating them, but in the pellet form, never.
I don't have yeast right now but I have some Marmite: would it be ok to give him some? I am not sure you have Marmite in the US, the ingredients are yeast extract, vegetable extract, niacin, thiamin, spice extract, celery extract, riboflavin, folic acid, vitamin B12 and salt. Quite disgusting but he might like it.
I have a Harrison's products distributor a few miles from here, just found out now, they also sell other brands, if you have a minute could you please have a look at their catalogue, and tell me if there is something that can be useful in our case? Liquid formula sounds good to me, I think I can get Bubu to eat some of it. Maybe they have it in this same shop? the link is

http://www.meadowsanimalhealthcare.co.uk/

Thank you very much for helping me, I really appreciate it!


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Check the label on the Harrisons to make sure it hasn't expired yet and smell it to see if it's still good. Harrisons uses a very light touch with the preservatives so it doesn't keep for as long as some of the other brands.

If you use the pellets, you could grind them into a powder and mix them with some other foods, or get somewhat similar results by soaking and mashing them. If you go with the baby formula, Bubu might like it better if you serve it warm (meaning that it's well mixed so the temperature is uniform throughout, and it feels warm but not hot when you touch it to your lip). 

Looking at the other products on the website: in the HealX section they have Sunshine Factor and Booster, which are plain red palm oil and RPO plus monolaurin respectively. 

Red palm oil is high-calorie and it naturally contains beta carotene and vitamin E so it's a little more nutritious than regular cooking oils. You can get some RPO or stick with the olive oil. You could probably get it cheaper if you bought RPO for humans at a natural-foods grocery. Monolaurin is a fatty acid found in coconut oil. I haven't researched it but it's likely that the claims about its anti-microbial properties are mostly hype. I don't see any particular reason to get it or avoid it.

I'm not familiar with Marmite but the internet says it's made from brewers yeast. It sounds good except for the added salt. A sick bird might actually benefit from a little extra sodium but I would use just small amounts of the Marmite to be safe.


----------



## Caro234 (Aug 27, 2010)

You can get Harrison's products here in the UK from online stores such as Northern Parrots or Midland Parrots - they also sell Harrisons bird bread and nutri-berries.
Try the BirdCare Company for supplements and sick bird products - they produce Polyaid a liquid food supplement and Guardian Angel an immune support supplement. Here's the link http://www.birdcareco.com/English/TheBirdCareCompany/sick_bird_products 
They are very helpful if you phone them. 
Northern Parrots also stock Birdcare Company products.
If you feel you may need a second vets opinion you can get lists of avian vets in your area from:
http://www.parrotmag.com/vets?sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid=27&sobi2Id=47
Also by searching for vets on the Birdcare company website. If you are near Loughborough there is the Chine House Vet Hospital and also Meadow Lane Vet Centre. 
Hope Bubu is soon feeling better.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Thank you for all the info, we have planned a visit to Midlands Parrots for tomorrow, if Bubu has been doing well and can be left alone for a while. Chine House is actually the clinic where Bubu was these last days... So if before I had a choice between two avian vets, now I only have one.
Bubu is 80 grams today, +2 from yesterday! And he refused Marmite... doesn't surprise me. He looks a bit less puffy but he sleeps a lot, and is still completely ignoring the other birdies.

edit: He can be left alone for a few hours... I realise that it's just me being silly about it :blush:


----------



## nassrah (Feb 27, 2012)

I am glad your Bubu is feeling better.Hope he keeps on putting on weight.It worries me sick these so called avian vets , because a lot of them only attend a few classes at uni but are not truly qualified.We went through something similar last year,so I think I can understand how you feel.Best of luck .Sending positive vibes for you and Bubu X x


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

82 grams today, I concocted a pap with Harrison's pellets, chickpeas, cous-cous and coconut oil, I can't believe my luck... he actually likes it :-D he looks a lot better and less grumpy too. I wish I knew what went wrong with him... but so glad that he seems on his way to recovery


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Congratulations! I'm glad he's doing better.


----------



## nassrah (Feb 27, 2012)

OH! That s very good news .Hope he makes a speedy recovery.All the best X x


----------



## Fweet (Apr 9, 2012)

Poor little chap! I'd be grumpy if I'd had to deal with those vets too & would have more than ruffled feathers. I've yet to find a decent avain vet in the UK & am very wary after a terrible experience some years back where I had to take in a 'tiel that had been got at by a dog. The vet chased the bird round the cage so what few feathers she had fell out & eventually grabbed her so she shrieked. Believe it or not, the vet was literally jumping up & down with her clasped in his fist shouting at her. He was, I later discovered, only a student exchange vet but it still gives me chills remembering him yelling 'Be kviet birdie! Birdie!! BE KVIETTT!!'

Glad to hear Bubu's on the mend though. Have you tried giving him a smear of butter on a cracker? Only suggesting it because Otway is a complete pig for them (when he can steal them) & while I'm sure butter isn't on the 'good foods' lists it might help him put on weight.


----------



## Paleghost13 (Sep 14, 2012)

How is Bubu doing? Were you able to figure out what is going on with him? How is his weight?


----------



## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

You can get brewers yeast from holland and barrett 
http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=86&prodid=49&cid=269


----------



## Debbie05 (Feb 9, 2010)

When my birds start to get sick I use Guardian Angel for birds, It is great stuff. Has anyone else used this. I always keep a container on hand.


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I haven't but I'm going to buy some...I've heard great things about it!!


----------



## Debbie05 (Feb 9, 2010)

I had a women contact me who had rescued a parrotlet. It was very sick and she had already taken to the vet a few times. The last visit he suggested putting the bird down. I told her to came by and I would give her some Guardian Angel. She called me a few days later and couldn't believe the difference in the bird. He was better and gaining weight.


----------

