# Breeding advice needed: all eggs infertile



## tiellovinpixie (Sep 21, 2017)

I have two cockatiel pairs between the ages of 2 - 3 years old (dna'd, I know I have a male and a female in each pair). The females keep laying eggs (last clutch for one pair was 3 eggs, 2 for the other; now the first pair has laid 5 and the other 3) but all the eggs are infertile. The pairs are full on incubating all eggs with both partners working together, so I believe that the males are not appropriately fertilizing the eggs at the beginning of the process.

What do I do from here? I obviously can't show them how it's done  Should I pull the nestboxes and let them try again in a few months? Is this a common issue for tiels?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I bred my tiels for three years and never had an issue with eggs being fertilized, even the first go around. Are you sure they're mating? It's kind of obvious when they do. And are the pairs for sure bonded to each other? You could try putting them all together and seeing if the pairs change at all and that might fix the issue. Are the males from the same place? It would be odd for two males to be infertile.


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## dotonearth (Oct 24, 2017)

Very interesting and I feel your pain! I had the EXACT same thing happen with two of my pairs...and I never had any of my previous pairs lay a single infertile egg before. I bought these birds already paired up and they were advertised as experienced successful parents. They acted bonded although I later noticed that neither male ever sang to their mate or did any of the normal courtship behavior. I did see them mating, although only once or twice that I saw. 

One male was obsessed with the nest box from Day 1 but his female was slow to get onboard with the breeding idea. The other male was completely uninterested but had a very anxious mate who he eventually humored. He was not the first to enter the nest box and I've read that this usually means you'll end up with infertile eggs. All eggs that each pair produced (9 eggs over 2 clutches for anxious female pair and 4 eggs for the anxious male pair) were infertile. They diligently incubated, sharing responsibilities exactly like all my other pairs ever had, but not a viable egg all Spring & Summer. Crushing...Heartbreaking...

Since neither pair seemed "in sync" from the beginning I started to suspect that I had purchased "bondage pairs". All four birds were in my aviary together so they could have re-paired if they really wanted to I guess but neither did. 

I'm currently trying to force re-pair in a separate indoor breeding cage. I used the overly anxious female and a completely different adult male. This led to my question in the other thread in this forum called "Re-pair bonding process". I'm very interested to hear what you decided to do with your pairs and I'll keep you posted on how my new pair does!


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## tiellovinpixie (Sep 21, 2017)

roxy culver said:


> I bred my tiels for three years and never had an issue with eggs being fertilized, even the first go around. Are you sure they're mating? It's kind of obvious when they do. And are the pairs for sure bonded to each other? You could try putting them all together and seeing if the pairs change at all and that might fix the issue. Are the males from the same place? It would be odd for two males to be infertile.


I believe they are both bonded pairs. The male sings to the female, they preen, and I've seen them each mate before, although not often. I am thinking that it is a matter of them not mating properly, but I have many different kinds of perches available and some very strong wooden ones, so I don't know what else to do if that is the issue. All 4 of them seem very interested in the process, so I don't think it's a lack of disinterest in breeding... I have been breeding budgies for the past couple of years and the last clutch I had they all showed ALOT of interest in the clutch and what was going on.


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## tiellovinpixie (Sep 21, 2017)

dotonearth said:


> Very interesting and I feel your pain! I had the EXACT same thing happen with two of my pairs...and I never had any of my previous pairs lay a single infertile egg before. I bought these birds already paired up and they were advertised as experienced successful parents. They acted bonded although I later noticed that neither male ever sang to their mate or did any of the normal courtship behavior. I did see them mating, although only once or twice that I saw.
> 
> One male was obsessed with the nest box from Day 1 but his female was slow to get onboard with the breeding idea. The other male was completely uninterested but had a very anxious mate who he eventually humored. He was not the first to enter the nest box and I've read that this usually means you'll end up with infertile eggs. All eggs that each pair produced (9 eggs over 2 clutches for anxious female pair and 4 eggs for the anxious male pair) were infertile. They diligently incubated, sharing responsibilities exactly like all my other pairs ever had, but not a viable egg all Spring & Summer. Crushing...Heartbreaking...
> 
> ...


I don't *think* they are bondage pairs? I have two males and 3 females and they have always been allowed out together, and shared a cage until they started to lay eggs and I separated them to avoid any territorial fighting. The pairs chose each other, and the males sing to the females and they preen each other. 

I tend to push my human feelings onto the birbs and just feel so bad for them that they are putting all this effort into incubating eggs and not getting any littles from the process


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## dotonearth (Oct 24, 2017)

It feels a bit strange bringing up this suggestion but I'm routing for you as a fellow cockatiel breeder and I want to help, so here it goes...I read in another posting about how a breeder solved a pair's repeated infertility by clipping the feathers around the birds' vents. Apparently this allowed for more effective mating. It sounds like you have bonded pairs and they want to be parents so might be worth a try! Truly, best of luck to you!


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## ninfatiel (Jul 22, 2016)

tiellovinpixie said:


> I don't *think* they are bondage pairs? I have two males and 3 females and they have always been allowed out together, and shared a cage until they started to lay eggs and I separated them to avoid any territorial fighting. The pairs chose each other, and the males sing to the females and they preen each other.
> 
> I tend to push my human feelings onto the birbs and just feel so bad for them that they are putting all this effort into incubating eggs and not getting any littles from the process


I wonder whats the genetic background on these pairs. I had a pair before-brother and sister and their parents were related too)-very bonded-absolutely wont re-pair-proper mating=infertile eggs. Out of 12 eggs (from 3 clutches)1 was fertile and they raised it. but I had to sepate them eventually,even though it was heart breaking( I was novice breeder and didnt know brother and sister may form strong bond or much about genetics either). But here is another thing-when my pairs mate-its like 10 times a day you can always see them at it and hear them from different room. The important part-is to see if they are rubbing their vents together, Because some inexperienced males may rub-on wings=infertile eggs. I have 1 female-she would sit in the feeder for the process-so male cant succsessfully rub her vent-when I breed her-I remove the feeders and place a dish with food on the floor.. Still in your case I suspect close inbreeding may be the culprit


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I too am curious about the genetics. And when my pairs were breeding, it was an all the time thing, not just a couple. So if they aren't hitting the mark or doing it enough, that could be the reason.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If they're not mating frequently, their hormones might not be fully revved up yet. It's common for them to be mating several times a day right before eggs are laid. Your hen might be getting ahead of the male, laying eggs before he has really done his duty yet.


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## Ray79 (Apr 5, 2018)

Hello, i reallu do not know to start a conversation so i always add to one. My cockatiel have successfully laid 5 eggs the first cluth and 7 eggs the second. They sit on the eggs from day one with no problem. But botb clutches have been infertile. I have seen them mate and all. I am wondering what the problem would be? Can an infertile female lay eggs? Is the problem with my mle? Do i need to get her another male and see if she bonds wjth him? Thank you for the advice


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Ray79, please create your own thread to ask questions. Many aren't going to respond to this because it's an old thread. Thanks!


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