# Calcium supplements



## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

This is a general parrot question as I'd apply the procedure to all my parrots, not just the tiels. I've been reading that cuttle bones have a form of calcium that is hard for birds to digest and they will chew cuttle bones if calcium is not found from other sources. With that said, I've also read conflicting reports about the safety of liquid calcium. Some breeders are recommending Tums ground up and added to their veggies as an alternative. 

With breeding season just around the corner and an itching to set up boxes I want to make sure my hens have enough calcium _before_ breeding commences. I want to also make sure they are not getting too much calcium. My birds will not touch cuttle bones except for the two babies I'd raised myself, neither will they touch anything but their seed. I was wondering if the ground up Tums would work on say a peanut butter sandwich or their seed. I only have one bird on pellets, the rest get seed, fruits and veggies, bird bread and sometimes eggs.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Here is some info. More than calcium has to be considered.

*The Importance of Calcium*​　
We have all heard that it is important to supply calcium sources, especially when a bird is laying or breeding. The reason why is to provide enough calcium intake to produce strong, dense shell on the eggs, and to also be a preventative to soft of shelless eggs, which can contribute to egg binding and/or dystocia, impaction or prolapse of the uterus.

The most common recommendation is supplying cuttlebone or calcium supplements, and greens or veggies that are rich in calcium. In supplying this we think the bases are covered and aid as a preventative to a hens reproduction problems, yet have a hen that passes a soft shelled egg or is egg-bound…*why?*
* 
*Most times this is not enough. There are several factors that can influence the output of calcium circulating in the bloodstream, which is drawn from the bones while an egg is in the uterus (shell gland). 

*1...Proper lighting plays an important role in good reproductive health of hens*. Either available in the form of real sunlight (not filtered thru glass) or from Full Spectrum Lighting (FSL) In simple terms the skin absorbs the UV (ultra violet) rays from the lighting and the body converts it to useable D3, and this in turn aids the uptake of useable calcium. 

*2...Preventative water treatments such as ACV can change the pH in the digestive tract*. When the pH is higher than 6.5, absorption of phosphorus markedly decreases. Excess free fatty acids in the diet can cause the pH to decrease and therefore, interfere with calcium and phosphorus absorption. In summary, if the intestinal flora and pH is altered this can cause several problems. If preventative treatments are used it is better *to find the cause *and correct it. 

*3...Researching the sources of calcium and other mineral nutrients is very important. *High levels of phosphorus in the blood will inhibit the mobilization of calcium from bone. When this occurs this increases the chances of soft-shelled eggs which can lead to impactions and binding.

You can go online to search for the following: You can look up on this site which foods (Nutrient lists) are high in calcium: http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ 
 
Below is a listing of what a shell consists of. When researching foods nutrient contents you will want to also look up which greens/veggies foods contain trace elements of the following:
Calcium carbonate: 94-97% 
Phosphorus: 0.3%
Magnesium: 0.2%
Sodium, Potassium, Manganese, Iron and Copper: traces 
Organic matter: 2% 
The small amount of organic matter mostly consists of matrix proteins (mixture of proteins and polysaccharides rich in sulphated molecules) and shell pigment. The matrix proteins are critically important in determining the egg shell structure and serves as foundation for the deposition of calcium carbonate. 

The structure of an eggshell when examined under a high powered microscope will look like a tangled network of mineralized fibers…kind of like looking at the mat in an air conditioner filter. The eggshell is formed around a mat of proteins, which is coated and overgrown by calcium carbonate and other mineral salts. The result is a tough, waterproof package that still allows gas exchange between the inside and the outside, enabling the developing embryo to 'breath', while providing astonishing mechanical strength. The shell has enough calcium carbonate in it, which as the embryo gets close to hatch, it can use this reserve to draw into the body and bloodstream for the developing bones.
　
*NOTE: most greens and veggies contain oxalic acids. *These will bind useable calcium from foods. What you want to do is look for foods that have a *higher* calcium content than oxalic acid. _The *useable calcium *is the difference between the two._ Print out the following tables from both links:
Guinea Lynx ::Oxalic Acid in Selected Vegetables
Guinea Lynx :: Calcium Chart 
 
Once you print out the 2 links above, you will have to look at the listed calcium level in this link: http://www.guinealynx.info/diet_ratio.html Deduct the oxalic acid levels to give you a clearer pix of the calcium to phosphorus ratios. The calcium to phosphorus ratio should be 2:1.
 
*Examining and providing the best sources of calcium does not stop at providing good shell quality. 

*During the last 15 hours of shell formation (when the egg is in the uterus, also called a shell gland), calcium movement across the shell gland reaches a rate of 100-150 mg/hr. This process draws calcium from two sources: diet and bone. Intestinal absorption of calcium in the diet is about 40% when the shell gland is inactive, but reaches 72% when active. This time closely coincides with late afternoon or the dark hours for the layer. Having higher calcium levels in the gut during this time is important to ensure calcium is being taken from the diet and not bone.

*NOTE: We are warned not to provide sources of sodium to our birds, *but many can go to the extremes of eliminating all sources of sodium and this can have an negative effect on a laying hen. The lack of (or deficiency) trace minerals and salt can be contributing factors to soft shelled eggs, and poor uterine muscle tone. This is also true of many birds that die of egg binding. Salt/sodium aids in the muscle contractions. When there is a deficiency there can be a loss of muscle tone to expel the egg. Therefore in your researching on a diet supplying needed calcium, and other trace minerals, try to include sources of sodium.

The need for a good source of calcium does not stop at supplying it prior to egg laying. The calcium is drawn into the developing embryo as it grows through the vascular network of blood veins radiating into the body from the yolk. During this time the embryo draws calcium from the shell to strengthen developing bones. If the calcium in the shell is insufficient this can contribute to weaker bones, and problems such as splayed leg , soft flexible leg bones, and/or fractures forming within days after hatch. For good bone growth and strength these post hatch problems can be avoided by supplying food sources rich in calcium and trace minerals to the feeding parents.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

Thanks, I understand the correlation with phosphorus, and the importance of providing both in a certain ratio. I don't filter our water and my birds are outside during the warm months. I'll check out those links and print off the charts as soon as I can get to hubby's computer unseen. I wanted to know about the Tums specifically as it's cheap and easy to find. I can't find the liquid calcium anywhere locally. Is this a suitable source of calcium for birds? If so what ratio should I be giving it? Like I said they won't touch the cuttle bones. I'm concerned they aren't getting enough calcium.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I looked at the calcium chart and mustard and dandelion greens are about at the top of the list. They grow both wild in my back yard. I've been feeding both those along with wild grasses as they have a high content of estrogen in them. I wonder if that would be enough calcium without supplements.

Mustard is 2.4:1 calcium to phosphorus 
Dandelion is 2.8:1


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## pyogenes (May 27, 2010)

Mentha said:


> This is a general parrot question as I'd apply the procedure to all my parrots, not just the tiels. I've been reading that cuttle bones have a form of calcium that is hard for birds to digest and they will chew cuttle bones if calcium is not found from other sources. With that said, I've also read conflicting reports about the safety of liquid calcium. Some breeders are recommending Tums ground up and added to their veggies as an alternative.


Tums is calcium carbonate - same as cuttlefish bones. Tums also contains sugar making cuttlefish bones a much better supplement for calcium.

Liquid calcium is calcium citrate. In humans with normal digestive tracts, there isn't much of a difference between calcium citrate and calcium carbonate. It only makes a difference in humans if the digestive tract has been altered (either by disease or surgery). For most healthy adults, calcium citrate is just a gimmick to make you spend more on supplements...

I'd personally avoid using liquid calcium for birds unless you are seeing issues with thin shells. It is sour and salty which isn't very palatable and may cause your birds to drink less water if you put it in all of their water or not drink it at all if it's in just some of their water.


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