# Brother and Sister! D :



## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

My two 'tiels are related. Closely related, as in brother-sister. They mate all the time, but this is the first time I've seen an egg. It was on the cage floor and was flat on one side. I didn't see much of a crack. I put in a home made Kleenex-box nestbox and set the egg inside. I felt Lucy's abdomen and did not feel another egg, but they mated again today.
Should I continue to allow them to mate? Is the egg's malformation a result of inbreeding, or possibly because of the male stepping on it?
They have never had access to a nestbox before. Will they know what to do?

I do believe that I am capable of raising chicks, if they were to hatch.

EDIT:
They've laid another egg, which is also malformed in the same way.


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## allen (Aug 25, 2007)

if they are related i would not let them mate at all you may end up with problems with the chicks or even birth defects


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

You should not encourage them to mate and if possible, you should stop it all together. Inbreeding has caused undesirable characteristics in offspring such as the bald spot in lutinos. That was due to carelessness and is now generally carried in the mutation itself. You may end up with a lot worse defects than just missing a patch of feathers. 
First you should separate them. If that isn't possible shorten their days. Maybe even try to rearrange their cage around a bit. 
I would never intentionally breed them.

The abnormally shaped egg was most likely due to it being too soft from lack of calcium and other nutrients or just from the fall itself.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

lord no don't let them mate - it is the same as a human brother and sister "mating" it doesn't only cause defects on the outside, but inside with their organs, shortens their life , and some have been known to have mental issues from being mated to a close relative(i'm referring to the birds not the humans we all know what happens when a sister and brother in the humans have kids) 

and as already said separate them - *no excuses what so ever *- if they're kept in the same cage this will continue and it won't turn out nicely at all


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## Di_dee1 (Feb 20, 2009)

You can boil the egg(s), mark it/them and give it/them back. Taking eggs away will also encourage more laying to replace them. Do not give them any nest box or nesting materials. Do the longer hours, rearrange the cage, keep them with changing conditions so they do not feel that conditions are right to breed. They will lose interest in the eggs once they fail to hatch in a few weeks.


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

I'd separate them.. just to be safe - let them out together and keep close supervision and you could even keep their cages side by side so they aren't too far away from each other and they'll be neighbors.


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

We're in a tight spot for money right now. I'll separate them, but I need a new cage. Anyone have a cheap place to get decent cages online?


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## allen (Aug 25, 2007)

you can try kijiji.com


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

Oh, I didn't find anything there! :wacko:
Can anyone provide a convincing literate argument for separating the two so I can show my parents? They won't believe that we need another cage...


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

How about, if they do end up having chicks successfully you will NEED to buy more cage*s*, supplies and food. Plus the chicks may end up being sick due to inbreeding and may require vet care which will be more $$$.

Now you can try craigslist.com for cheap cages. I NEVER find anything on kijiji anyways.


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

Haha, I'll try that one, too. Then they'll probably tell me to just crack the eggs and be over with it, but it won't hurt to try to convince them.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

If you also keep destroying the eggs, it will encourage them to lay more. Over time that may end up being the death of your hen.


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

I'd never crack an egg anyway. I'm much too much of a softie to destroy something that may contain life.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

I know how i'd tell my parents (if i were in that position) of course it won't work for every one 

but I'd just be blunt about it and ask to my dad:" Would you have a baby with your sister?" to my mom " would you have a baby with your brother?" and when both say NO then ask Well why not? then listen to their argument - which no doubt is its incest, its gross, it causes health and mental problems etc. etc. Then I'd say and it is the same exact thing for birds (all animals actually) 

but i'm blunt and to the point, I was brought up not to sugar coat anything, not to beat around the bush, get my point out and made and Move on to the next topic 

but i can honestly say I don't know many parents who would go and have a baby with their siblings! so its a good argument!

the biggest point i'd be making is it is for the health of both birds and all involved 

I don't know if i still have the video of a baby budgie We just had not to long ago but the bird was mental! we did not know the parents were related , and still aren't 100% sure but there is NO other explanation for the way the bird acted, so to be on the safe side those 2 will never be bred together again 

the video isn't on my photo bucket, I'll have to look on my other computer I may have deleted it though 

But the bird would sit for hours just spinning its head around in circles, then run from one end of the cage and back to the front part and spin its head around more in cirlces it did it from the time it woke up til it went to sleep , only stopping long enough to eat/drink(which we all know birds don't eat and drink much) and while it was running from the front of the cage to the back of the cage and back to to the front


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I do know a couple of breeders that did inbreed, some cousins, and some siblings. I was the handfeeder for the one person, and try as I may I just could not succesffully wean a baby before it just dropped dead. Big beautiful babies too. I had necropsies done and it was from liver damage (hatched with partial livers) or liver failure. I was pissed because this was not normal and asked the breeder, only to learn they were brother and sister, and from lines that were closely related. Another breeder was breeding pieds, not closely related but still related. She was also pairing identical looking birds together. Same thing at weaning time they dropped dead with no warning. Necropsies revealed missing pancreas, damage liver, heart disorders. A real mess internally.

The thing is that the chicks may hatch out and grow fine in the nest, but just suddenly drop dead. Externally they may appear fine, but inside they can be like a ticking time bomb ready to go off at any time.

I can not begin to tell you the heart ache and helplessness you will feel when you think everything is alright and wham the bird dies with no apparent signs of it being sick. You wrack your brain trying of things you did wrong. You were entrusted with a life and you failed. 

It just is not fair to the chicks. Our responcibilities as breeders is to be aware of do's and don't and to give the next generation a healthy start.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It takes a lot of work to keep a brother and sister together without them breeding. Squeebis is passionately in love with his sister Teela, and every time there's any mating behavior I immediately start the long nights treatment. They spent their nights in a sleep cage in a closet for several months this spring. So far it's working, there's been very little mating and no eggs.


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

Thanks for the advice, everyone. They seem to understand what happens with birds and inbreeding--and we all agree that it's very possible that the egg was malformed because of their relation. We've looked at cages at our local small pet store--not a big chain like Petsmart, but a smaller one called Pet Warehouse. They have a better selection for reptiles, birds, and small pets, while Petsmart has a better selection for cats and dogs. Most of their cages are of a fair quality and are priced very sensibly. We will be buying a new cage as soon as possible, I believe--I just have to keep on reminding them!


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

Update
My mom said that she needs to run errands tomorrow, so we will most likely buy a new cage tomorrow.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

that is good news, and i'm glad they understand and did the responsible thing 

If space is an issue - trust me i know what is like to have cages all over the house the only rooms right now with out cages are my 2 bathrooms, kitchen and my daughters room and we live in a 3 bedroom house with a living room and "family room"(which is the birds room) 

they make these types of cages and would work great - they each have thier own cage but can see each other











Or if going long ways takes up too much space I have these cages and I LOVE THEM (they're critter nation cages but work excellent for my birds) all the ones I have have 1/2" bar spacing I wouldn't trade them for nothing in the world 

these are older pics of when i first got the cages - they look different now 










and one with the door open (i love the doors no more not being able to get in and move things around)


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

Yes, we were looking at those kinds of cages. They're called breeding cages, aren't they? I'm not sure if they have any at Pet Warehouse or Petsmart, but I've seen them online. I'd love to get one of those--the current cage is a bit ratty and sort of big. And they love to play on top, but it's a dome top.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

the 1st pic is a double Flight cage 

and the 2nd is a Critter nation cage (intended for critters like ferrets and things)


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

Oh, okay. :lol:


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

They've laid another egg, also malformed in the same way. I believe that it may be due to a lack of calcium. There are no cracks, but she doesn't seem interested in the eggs.
And we went shopping, but my mom refuses to buy a separate cage and they had no breeding or double flight cages at either pet store. We have a divider with bird-sized gaps from a dog's kennel that she's insisting on using. She won't believe me that they will injure themselves with it.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

Can you possibly order a cage online? You are more likely to find one cheaper and some places also have free shipping!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Warning...I am going to get a little 'Preachy' on you.

HOW do your parents expect you to be a resonsible pet owner if they do not have concern on things you need.

Below are some pix's of malformed and shelless eggs. Of these what does your egg look like? I would also point out that this is a _*serious warning*_ that the hen is at risk for a prolasped oviduct/uterus. 

Are they going to take the stand of 'Let nature take it's course' ...whish is let it die? Or are they going to assist you in getting the hen to a vet in an energency?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Ok...as to the malformed eggs, calcium is the least of the problems. What will help the most in addition to calcium is acess to real sunlight (not filtered thru glass) or a Vita or Plant Grow flouseant light next to the cage or above it. 

IF she_* is insisting*_ on the dog crate, and you can not budge her, then ask her to go to Home Depot and get a small roll of hardware cloth (1/2" x 1/2" wire mesh") and some small plastic electrical ties, and attacth it to all the areas on the dog crate that have large spacings in the wire. Sheeh!...they can even use this to make you another cage. If you don't have wire cutters, in a pinch heavy duty kitchen scissirs work fine.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

One other thought. I see you are in NC. There should be plenty of breeders in your area. Quite possibly you can locate and explain your delemia with a breed and see if they would be interested in trading one of your birds for one you would know is unrelated to yours. Quite possibly they may have an extra cage, which you can offer a baby from their first clutch as payment. Just some thoughts...


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

srtiels said:


> Warning...I am going to get a little 'Preachy' on you.
> 
> HOW do your parents expect you to be a resonsible pet owner if they do not have concern on things you need.
> 
> ...




i totally agree!

and had a question - the very last egg in your pics you posted, I've had some look like that BUT not until well after they were supposed to hatch - they were not hatched like they, they came out like normal eggs and matched all the other eggs, But When mine don't hatch (specially if the pair is on their 2nd clutch) I will leave the eggs longer then a week IF none get broken of course then when I clean the nest box when the babies are starting to leave and am preparing to remove the box all together A couple different times I've found a egg that looked just like your last pic - last time there were 3 eggs unhatched 2 still looked normal 1 like your last pic 

I never understood why some ended up like that, I just assumed from the parents still sitting on it and it was infertile so it dried out and kind of caved in like that


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

_* I just assumed from the parents still sitting on it and it was infertile so it dried out and kind of caved in like that*_
*------------------------------------*

yes...that would be what happened if it started out normal with something in it. As the egg dehydrates it can cave in on itself.

As to the egg I posted some eggs can moved to fast thru the oviduct and totally miss picking up the yolk and albunnum (or whatever the clear stuff is called)...get delayed at the shell gland, get some shell to them, but since there is nothing inside they are passed as a very rough looking egg that collapses inwards.

All of the exmaples i posted were from when i was breeding indoors, no vita lights, and had numerous hen laying problems. Once I moved everyone outside all of my shell problems also dissapeared.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

Thanks, Glad to know i was on the right track  

Also (I don't have a pic didn't think of getting one at the time) When Jill was still alive and they were on their 1st clutch of this year , she laid i believe it was 5 eggs All normal, size, shape etc. expect One was very tiny smaller then a any of the hummingbird eggs i've seen online (i was goggling small eggs to try to find one that matched) But it had a normal shell on it it was just extremely small - i'd say smaller then a eraser from a pencil 

would that be caused from the moving too fast through the egg making process? 

out of all the eggs only 2 hatched the 1st one died, and then the 2nd one to hatch was Lucky then Jill died when Lucky was 4 days old - oh and the tiny egg was the 2nd egg laid so the 1st egg was 100% normal, 2nd one laid was the tiny one, and the 3,4 and 5th eggs were all normal like they should be


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yep...it moved too fast. I'm not sure why or the cause for this to happen, but it is nothing to be alarmed about. It would look similaiar to the one in the illustration. 

The first time it happened to me I thought it was a lizard egg because we have lizards and geckos all over down here, and their eggs are the same size.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

srtiels said:


> Yep...it moved too fast. I'm not sure why or the cause for this to happen, but it is nothing to be alarmed about. It would look similaiar to the one in the illustration.
> 
> The first time it happened to me I thought it was a lizard egg because we have lizards and geckos all over down here, and their eggs are the same size.


the little egg in the bottom left corner of your illustration does look like it 

I'm glad it was nothing extremely serious and i'm glad it only happened that one time but now i know if it ever happens with any other pairs, Not to freak out  

Also would it be safe to say the tiny egg has no baby in it?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

The reson why the egg is so small is because it has no yolk.

A fertilized egg will have a yolk that looks like this. The embryo starts to develop from there. Without the yolk, noting can happen.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

ok i thought so - just wanted to make sure


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Some breeder will say the little egg happens only with first time layers or it is the first or last egg. I haven't found that true. I get these occasionally from hens that have been breeding for a couple of seasons and it can occur anywhere in the clutch.

I found a whole bunch of forgotton pix's on my laptop. There is another reason why calcium is _*so*_ importatant. It is not only important for proper shell formation. It is also needed for the developing embyro. It the chick hatches and is calcium defecient, in addition to no calcium source from the parents feed the chicks as they rapidly grow compound fractures can occur.

Take a look at this baby, and what do you see wrong with it? This happened years ago...


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

The leg on the baby is twisted backwards


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

The legs brok, from being calcium defecient. I was not paying attension to the nestboxes and did not catch it until it was too late to fix. My guess is both legs broke in the upper long bone, as the baby moved around trying to walk they got turned backwards. When young there is rapid growth in the bones, and they probably started knittin back together within 1-2 day. Here is another view...


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

oh ok. That is understandable 

I know I always stress how important calcium is But like most i thought it was mainly for egg formation until the chicks were older then it was also for them Didn't realize they needed it as wee babies to 

but it makes sense - human babies need it - so all living things would


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes, my pairs chew on the mineral block more after the chicks hatch than before.

The little bird had a happy ending. I had a man that came regularly to buy babies from the nest. We went nestbox to nestbox and he picked out babies. When I got to that nestbox I wasn't paying attention because the 4 babies looked exactly alike (others were normal legs). After he left I went and checked all my nestboxes. That is when I discovered the backward leg baby was gone. I phoned him to let him know what happened. He said no problem, his daughter loves the little problem babies. She named the baby 'Happy Feet' And the last I heard it is doing well.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

aww that is awesome 

Mine eat cuttle bones like they're going out of style we ended up buying a 25 pound box or a 20 pound i can't remember now 

we have to give them a new one at least every 2 weeks males are no different then the females they both eat them the same


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

Any update on this, did you separate the two? after seeing the malformed eggs I feel so sorry for them.


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

We have been unable to separate them so far. After examining the eggs, I found that the first one is hollow--no yolk, no nothing. The second one is much better formed, but I think she laid it off of a perch--it's cracked, with air bubbles inside, and there was a yolk.
I've left the eggs in the cage. She pulled them out of the nest box and lined them up nicely. I don't think she liked the nest box.
Is it normal for cockatiels to lay eggs off of perches, and not sit on the eggs at all? She has no attachment to them, except to scoot them around.

The child support should be coming soon. I've found some cages on Pollysperches.com, are there any better sites? My mom would want to get one off of eBay, which I'm sure would end up being a piece of crap.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

If you buy a used cage a good question to ask is what happened to the last bird that used it? It would be helpful to know, just incase it was from an illness...


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> She has no attachment to them, except to scoot them around.


The parents turn the eggs frequently. This is important, and if it's not done the baby can end up sticking to the shell inside the egg. So she is tending the eggs even though she's not sitting on them.


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

Aww, well, that's good, right? I heard that 'tiels only start to sit on the eggs once they've laid a whole clutch. Should I get a nest box just for now? The Kleenex nest box I put the eggs in to protect scared her to death.
I've been showing her all the stuff you guys have shown me. Hopefully it's having it's effect on her.
Good idea, SrTiels.
Any calcium-rich foods I can give my tiels? Leafy greens like kale are good, right? No milk because birds can't digest it, I know that much. They haven't been responding to a new cooked 'tiel treat I got--Cinnamon Sunrise. But it has a lot of nutrients and variety. And it smells good enough for me to eat. 
I have two cuttlebones/mineralblocks chewables. One strawberry, one banana. I switch them out because otherwise they get disinterested.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

Please remove the makeshift nest box ASAP. *Don't* encourage anymore breeding! And please do not get another nest box. Doing that will only make matters worse. 

Cuttle bones should help with the calcium but you have them. What is their overall diet? Knowing what they get fed can help us give suggestions on what to change or add.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

do not give these birds a nest box. you are making the problem worse they are BROTHER AND SISTER do not let them mate! 

and get rid of the broken egg it will make the birds sick 

to be bluntly honest - I can't even believe the members of this board is encouraging this to go on.

Brother and sister birds must not mate I CAN NOT MAKE THIS ANY MORE CLEARER either separate them or re home one 

I'm sorry to be blunt, and harsh but I'm tired of excuses from people (and not just you and not just on this forum) "we can't get this or that" " they have to live together" NO THEY DON"T have to live together 

I have siblings and they don't even get out of cage time together 

be a responsible pet owner. DO NOT LET THIS CONTINUE you are only hurting this female bird. and any babies that will eventually come from it

Remove him and the nest box Give her longer days and within a few days there shouldn't be any more eggs


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

Child support is coming tomorrow. We are buying two new cages on Monday/Tuesday, depending on when the check arrives. I've been keeping a very close eye on them, cutting down on light, etc. No more eggs, thankfully, and they haven't been mating any more. I think my mother finally understands the importance of this, I had to get my grandma to speak to her just so she'd get it.
Currently they are on Kaytee Exact Original Cockatiel Food and I supplement their diet with Beak Appetit Cinnamon Sunrise. I also tried to feed them apples, but they weren't too fond of them. They also occasionally get millet spray and honey-and-seed foraging treats. Daily, I give them a little bit of sunflower seeds for treats. On the safe Fruits & Veggies for 'Tiels list, what are the most calcium-filled? I have a powdered supplement, should I add it into moist foods?


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

Oh, here is the supplement we have.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

You need to introduce pellets to them, They're basically on a all seed diet and that isn't good 

Kaytee isnt good period I know they changed the way they make their food, but I still won't ever use their brand 

I use Zupreem pellets Fruit and natural mixed - most birds love the fruit blend, and its not bad for them like most people think

other top brands of pellets are Roudy bush , and Harrison's (can't buy Harrison's in a pet shop though, only through a vet or them and it only lasts like 6 weeks once open - so i stay clear of it)

they need veggies more then fruits fruit is high in sugar - even fresh - fruits have thier own natural sugars 

Here is a good site for healthy foods to feed birds 

http://www.landofvos.com/articles/kitchen.html


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

Okay, I'll change the diet as soon as we buy the cage, maybe even today for the diet change. The Kaytee I use is pellets, the only size they'll eat, because they can't tell the difference in size and shape between it and millet seeds. Does ZuPreem have a small size cockatiel pellet formula?
I hear that alfalfa is good for calcium, would sprouted alfalfa grown at home be good? Is cayenne okay for birds? That site said it was, but I'd imagine it would be too spicy for the 'tiels. Should I substitute one of the water dishes for a mild chamomile, which that site said had calcium for birds, as well as a soothing effect, possibly calming them enough to not mate? Sorry I have so many questions.
My poor hen was scooting around the first egg, and it broke. It was all dried inside, and had a rather large vibrant yellow yolk. I'll post some pictures of the eggs later tonight or maybe tomorrow, my camera is dead right now.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> to be bluntly honest - I can't even believe the members of this board is encouraging this to go on.


Unless I missed something, there hasn't been anything that looked like approval of the situation. There have been some posts aimed at identifying exactly what's going on, which I think is beneficial. The more information the owner has, the more she'll be able to understand the current situation and deal with it, as well as avoiding problems in the future.


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

Okay, I got some fresh kale, some fresh bean sprouts, and some fresh fruits. We have some various veggies on hand. I mixed the Cinnamon Sunrise wet food with the powdered supplement and used some diced kale to put on top...no interest from them yet.


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

They crushed the other egg. I think Lucy tried to sit on it and it got crushed. I picked it up afterwards and pushed on the shell lightly, and then it pushed in and the shell popped back out, like it was soft but not frail. There was a large yolk inside.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

did you throw the broken egg away?

and why does she still have the eggs? She doesn't need them. She needs to be given at this point 13 hours of darkness will probably be good, no nest box, no boxes at all, nothing to make a nest out of and defiantly no eggs

I'd cut back on showers/baths, and any and all soft foods (mashed hard boiled eggs, noodles, anything cooked )


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

By now you could've got another cage, don't mean to sound nasty but it sounds like you want to keep them together rather then separate them and solve the problem that's gonna get worse the longer you let them stay together.. JMO.


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## tiki<3polly (Jul 21, 2009)

I agree with you Solace!


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

I do not want to keep them together, it will be bad for their health in the long run, I'm sure, to be together in the same cage. I believe I was told to keep the eggs in the cage because she would just lay more to replace them, which could lead to egg binding and etc, but I have thrown them out now. If it was up to me, we would already have another cage. My mom is very controlling, I'm not allowed to get a job, so I have to depend on her to pay for things the 'tiels need. The child support all went to my mom going back to the Community College--huh, I thought child support was for me, not for her. But she should be getting paid this Friday, and then I will pester her until she gets separate cages. We have a table that should be able to fit the two cages where their one cage is now, and we intend to sell the old cage to help balance things out.
Okay, limit soft foods. Do bean sprouts count as soft foods?


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

You got the first part right..

But, keeping HER in her OWN cage with the eggs until she abandons them (which takes not long at all when you do the right things) is what you should be doing right now. Take the male out, put him in another cage and make sure they get 12-13 hours of darkness each night, re-arrange toys, perches, food dishes and it'll stop before you know it. 

Child support is for your mother, not for you, your dad is paying your mum for it in order to be able to feed you and what-not. Owning 'tiels doesn't come free sorry to say, if your 'tiels have health problems in the long run and either one of them needs to go to the Vets and you don't have the money, what are you going to do? they can die depending on what it is if they don't get seen and treated. Sorry, but if you can't afford 'tiels you shouldn't have them.

With that said.. I hope you can get another cage soon.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

have you looked on your local craigs list, or local free cycle the cage doesn't have to be brand new and it doesn't have to be expensive, Just a decent size - to keep a single bird in 

I know on my local Craigs list i find cages all day every day as low as 10 dollars - granted They're not huge BUT they'd work in a pinch, and would work until you were able to get a bigger cage - granted if it wasn't going to be 1+ years down the road

I have successfully removed eggs and the female never laid any more


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

I agree, check your local freecycle group. People offer tons of free items! Check it often as well as craigslist. Something is bound to turn up. I see plenty of cages big enough for one bird for $20-$50. If its a great deal it is often gone in a flash, so keep checking.


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

If they needed to go to the vet, my grandmother would pay for it. She pays for emergency things for us, bless her soul, but doesn't qualify this new cage as something we need. I've found good cages on Craig's List, but they are all quite a bit off from where we live, and my mom doesn't want to have to go anywhere to pick up anything. The local pet store, Pet Warehouse, has excellent prices for cages, though, so we should be able to get one there.
It's not that I don't care, it's just that my mom doesn't care for the birds much.


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

We got two new cages. They're doing great!


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

That is good to hear! Now you also have an extra emergency cage.


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## birdie-beth (Jul 21, 2009)

We're actually planning to sell the old cage, they're trying to balance out the cost of the cages.
They're not high-quality, but not low-quality either. The bars are kinda thin and when they sit on a perch it sags a little, but they cannot pinch the bars.


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