# At my wits end. ( Flea Market Bird)



## anni103079 (Jul 15, 2013)

I'm at my wits end trying to bond and tame one of the flea market cockatiels . Its been a month since my husband bought them , and brought them home from the flea market. ( both are still in quarantine) The one bird still nibbles, but allows me to hold him. He's a very sweet bird .......The other however wont even let me near him. I had his wings clipped thinking it would be easier for me to handle him. Ive done food bribery ( he will nibble at cereal alittle bit but nothing else while I hold it ) , Ive tried every thing ! He still bites really hard, my hands and fingers have little nicks where he has bitten me so hard that hes drawn blood.( He even will attack gloves if I try handling him that way ) He hisses and attacks the bars even if I put my hands on the cage. I know when I got these birds their living conditions were horrible. Ive tried being patient with him but I just feel like giving up on him. I don't know what else to do.
Even my husband is shocked with how he acts.. Ive gotten birds before where they were mean at first.. but within a couple of weeks they were all more accepting, and letting me handle them. But this one.... forget it! Cant win him over.

I talked to my husband tonight- about getting rid of him. But I don't think anyone would even want him.

Can any one suggest some thing else, on taming him??? Im sure Im not the first to deal with a very mean cockatiel! So Im hoping someone can help me.




http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=85417


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

There are some Cockatiel´s that are just not a hands-on bird, and prefer to be a bird-bird rather than person-bird. With that said, I am not saying just forget it and give up, it can take time, some longer than others, have you tried the training away from the other Cockatiel? I wonder if that would help, although I would of thought that if he seen the other one nice, calm, and sweet, he would maybe tame down a bit, he still might though.

If you decided to re-home him, you might be able to find someone who could put him with other Cockatiel´s in an aviary where he could be happily part of a flock there.


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## tweetsandsarah (Mar 27, 2014)

That's too bad. I also have a bird that is not tame, but I haven't had him very long. I would just ask... Does he get to come out of the cage despite the fact that he is not tame? I have been pondering what I would do if Tweets never really becomes tame and I've come to this conclusion: All I want is for him to be healthy and at peace. If he doesn't want to cuddle, but he likes to visit with me then I am fine with that. Maybe someday he will trust me and we will be very close, maybe not. If not then perhaps I will get a bird that was hand raised and all three of us can be happy together. Of course, everyone has different views I am sure.

I am not a bird expert and bird behavior is a very weak point for me, but as I have researched I have come across a theme all over the place. Many cockatiels apparently don't like hands, but they love shoulder time or even face time. Can someone with lots of experience please comment on this phenomenon? Also, if a bird hates hands but seems interested in the person, is there an outside of the box way to bond? Maybe this would help people like anni and I.


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## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Some of my tiels are like that they don't like to be touched and some hate hands.
I just let them be, some have become very tame with time letting them decide how and when to get closer. 
In my experience forcing them to be friendly usually works against it. 


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Sorry, but *one month* and you're at your wits' end?!
One month is nothing to a bird. They do not perceive time the same way we do; it can take months, even years, for a bird who is scared of humans to start trusting them.

You say you have tried everything, but you have not tried having patience and letting things go at the bird's pace. I know I sound harsh, but think of things from the his perspective. What reason does such a tiny prey animal have to trust you? What's in it for him? We are not entitled to any wild creature's love, respect or trust. We have to earn it.

And you also do have to keep in mind that not all birds are "people birds" or willing to be hands-on. I have one tiel that is like that, but I love her all the same. She doesn't tolerate handling, but because I respect that about her, we have an understanding. She flies to me when she wants to, and hangs out on my shoulder. She likes to be around me, she just hates hands. And that is just fine with me, considering I have three other needy tiels and a cockatoo who want hands-on attention every day.

If your bird is biting when you try to handle him, I would suggest not trying to handle him anymore. Back of when he gives you clear signals, and maybe you will one day come to some kind of understanding. A bird does not have to be tame and cuddly to be a good companion. And even if he is "mean," he still deserves a good home. I have learned through personal experience that we set ourselves up for disappointment and frustration when we expect too much out of parrots, especially parrots with unknown backgrounds. Try to appreciate him for who he is.

I am not saying stop trying to tame him, I'm just saying if I were you I would take a step back and stop trying to force things on him. Offer treats, spend time around him, talk gently. Let him realize you are not a threat, and he may come around in his own time. If you have other tame birds, let him see you interacting with them and he may learn by example. That's what happened with my Astrid...she started flying to me of her own free will when she saw how much the other birds like me. She is not a people bird, and probably never will be, but I have been accepted into the flock even in her mind. That's all I can really ask for.


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## tweetsandsarah (Mar 27, 2014)

Not to get off topic... but can they be let out of the cage if they aren't "tame"? Tweets hasn't been out of his cage his entire life and I would love to see him be able to enjoy life outside his cage.


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## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Yes they can! They should, really. Being in a cage all the time is no life for any living creature. 

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## anni103079 (Jul 15, 2013)

Ive tried taking him out of his cage, and he gets very vocal, hisses, and bites even more. Ive tried just putting him on the birdy tree, and he will fly off and flap around. Seems to stress him out a lot when he isn't in his cage. So that's when I started just putting my hands in the cage, and he still attacks my fingers and hands. Same as just touching the cage. Ive also tried separating them, and they squawk loudly and carry on,( if they can hear each other it just gets louder ) they are bonded to each other . So I really don't know what to do. 
I was hoping that with the other bird starting to like being out of the cage, and being on my shoulders the other one would get curious and want to also. I leave the cage door open when I handle the other bird, But he still wont even come down to the lower perch , or even close to the door. He will just sit there and do a high pitched squealy squawk until I return the other bird to the cage. 
And than once I do that... all is calm., they start preening each other, and say pretty bird to each other. Once they are done preening each other, I talk to them . AM trying so hard to get them both to accept me. 


Tommrow Im gonna be introducing the one that's accepting me to my 6 other cockatiels, to see how it all goes. ( upstairs bird room )
Maybe separating them alittle will get the other one to accept me ...even if its just alittle.


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## tweetsandsarah (Mar 27, 2014)

But how can it be safe? I've heard stories about untame birds being let out of the cage going a little crazy and running straight into a wall. How do you get them back in the cage if you can't use your hand? Sorry, last question.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

anni103079 said:


> Ive tried taking him out of his cage, and he gets very vocal, hisses, and bites even more. Ive tried just putting him on the birdy tree, and he will fly off and flap around. Seems to stress him out a lot when he isn't in his cage. So that's when I started just putting my hands in the cage, and he still attacks my fingers and hands. Same as just touching the cage. Ive also tried separating them, and they squawk loudly and carry on,( if they can hear each other it just gets louder ) they are bonded to each other . So I really don't know what to do.
> I was hoping that with the other bird starting to like being out of the cage, and being on my shoulders the other one would get curious and want to also. I leave the cage door open when I handle the other bird, But he still wont even come down to the lower perch , or even close to the door. He will just sit there and do a high pitched squealy squawk until I return the other bird to the cage.
> And than once I do that... all is calm., they start preening each other, and say pretty bird to each other. Once they are done preening each other, I talk to them . AM trying so hard to get them both to accept me.
> 
> ...


It sounds to me like, a) he is bonded to the other bird, and b) he is telling you in very clear terms to back off and stop messing with him. He also may be frustrated because he is handicapped (clipped wings) and you are trying to move him around places against his will.

I know it may be hard to accept him the way he is, but that is still my advice to you. Try to see things from his point of view. Why shouldn't be prefer someone of his own species, who understands him, to a big scary monster who keeps demanding things of him he does not understand or want?


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## anni103079 (Jul 15, 2013)

I know a month doesn't seem like that long... and maybe to him not long at all. However after a month Id think hed be calmed down enough so I could reach into his cage to clean it, and to fill up his water and food dishes. With out being hissed at or lunged at. 
I also only had his wings clipped as the vet suggested it , and said it would help with taming. ( also read this in this very forum)
And I believe I have been patient.. I don't just chase him around his cage trying to get him to accept me. I talk to him , I try interacting with him. And I'm trying to get him to get use to my hands by handling him,trying to hand feed him, and putting my hands in his cage "territory" so he will eventually accept me. ( again read in other posts in this forum ) 
I've also tried taking him out of his cage, handling him ,Wearing gloves, so he realized that the biting doesn't affect me any. 
All in which has ALSO been suggested in other posts on this forum. So I don't believe I am doing anything wrong 
I simply just wanted more suggestions, and advice * other than to just leave him alone *

Im not asking for a bonding over night, or a cuddly bird, but some kind of acceptance is a must. and Yes... I am frustrated and after only one month... at my wits end........ I think any "big scary monster " would be frustrated with him, after trying every thing with no change at all. 

I don't want a mean bird- and I wont just accept a mean bird either... he will not fit in if I cant even touch him. OR HIS CAGE! 
I know that may sound selfish and cruel but a pet I cant interact with... doesn't work for me.


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## corgie (Jun 24, 2013)

My bird, which I've had since June is still like this. Chezzy bites very hard and draws blood, his hisses when I switch his food/water into the cage. Only when he is out of his cage he will sometimes step-up, he just doesn't like hands! The only issue for me with him now is letting him out, I don't want Chezzy in the cage all day but I also can't get him out so.

Just be patient! He may or may not come around and you need to go at his pace, going to fast will only make it worse. I'm no expert but I went too fast with Chezzy a few times and it just didn't work out well.

It just seems like the kind of bird that needs to come to you. If you really wanted a tame bird you should have gotten a hand-tame baby. Not trying to be rude or anything ^^;


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## anni103079 (Jul 15, 2013)

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=85417


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## tweetsandsarah (Mar 27, 2014)

Is it your hands or you completely? Like... what does he do if your face is near the cage? Does he EVER have good reactions to you? 

I'm just going on the theory of cockatiel's having and adverse reaction to hands (i.e. Not wanting to be picked up/attacking hands). Will he come out of his cage on his own? Maybe he is being possessive of his cage. If he can be comfortable outside the cage, get used to being on your shoulder, etc then maybe he would come around. Have you established a treat that he really likes? Maybe he would take it from your hand/be coaxed out of the cage. I'm just stabbing in the dark, but there has to be an outside of the box way to earn trust. 

I hope that things will get better. I know you're frustrated and a lot of people have said this, but time is a huge factor. Here's hoping that things will get better!


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## Korvia (Aug 3, 2012)

I wonder is he hormonal? if so I think that would contribute to him being nasty.My tame birds are nasty when hormonal. does he have a fit if you were to put him on top of his cage? I would just take things slow, start back at just talking to him while he is in the cage.


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## Newtonian (Feb 19, 2014)

My last tiel, I am convinced, was never out of her cage until I bought her. She wasn't mean, but she definitely wasn't tame and thought hands were scary. I did a few things.

First, I spent a few weeks sitting next to the cage when I could. I would sit and do work, or read aloud, or talk to her to get her used to me and the noises I make without asking anything of her.

When she no longer looked frightened by my very presence, I would start opening the cage door so she could choose to come out. She rarely did, so I switched this to opening the cage door AND putting some tasty food in a food bowl on the outside of the cage. She would come out to eat eventually.

It was much easier to train her to step up from here than it was from inside her cage. The cage was her safe place, and if I put my hands in it at this point she got very upset.

Why not try some variant of that? Leave the door open when you have his buddy out, maybe with some millet or something on the outside, and let him decide to come out of the cage on his own. Then, once he's comfortable coming out while you're around, slowly reintroduce trying to handle him, but only once he's come out of the cage. Give him the inside as a safe place and only invade it as necessary.


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## anni103079 (Jul 15, 2013)

The only good interaction to me is he will occasionally accept me holding a honey nut cheerio, He will take a bit and than back away. Which Im fine with , its a start. The few times I have had him out of his cage he didn't like it at all, He is very territorial when it comes to his cage.( I don't think either one of them had much if any out of cage time, because the other one was very scared to be away from the cage at first too ) Ive tried putting him in the birdy tree that's in front of the window when I had the other one playing in the tree, I thought hed accept it since the other one was in the tree, and because he was sitting in his cage squawking ( he does this every time the other is out of the cage ) But he didn't, He has gone after my face, So I don't trust him completely on my shoulder, although I have tried it. He doesn't like anyone but the other bird! 

Ive also thought about just getting him into a different cage? Since he is so territorial when it comes to the cage that he and the other one already are in. 
I want to get a bigger cage for them anyway. But maybe if I do that Ill have a harder time with him... 

Im hoping he comes around, My son who is 9 is very afraid of this bird, ( He bit him and wouldn't let go ) He doesn't even want to interact with him at all now. My husband either. He has even said he doesn't like these birds at all .( and hes the one that rescued him from the flea market ) 

I also thought maybe it was all hormonal too, So I cover the cage and keep it covered for 9-10 hours. ( which seems like a long time ) and that didn't help with his behaviors any either. Maybe increase the covering a bit longer???


I always leave the cage door open when I am interacting with the other , Hoping he will come out or atleast be curious enough to come closer to the door, but he is stays on the upper perch. Hasn't yet came close to the lower perch near the door- when the door is open. 
Im gonna try the millet later on tonight . Maybe he will like the millet over the cheerios. 


Also - 
Today I introduced the other bird to my other 6, It went great!!! It was only 15 mins. But I think they all liked each other.
I left the other in his cage- but near by so he can watch. And do his squawking.
I am afraid to let him interact with my other 6 birds, I don't want him attacking any of them or them attacking him. 
But there cages are in the same room now!!! quarantine over! AM happy about that too.
Maybe him seeing the other birds, will get him to calm down & seeing me interact with the others will help too.
Im hoping he can learn to trust me.... Its upsetting to me that he doesn't feel safe to be near me, or other family members.


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## tweetsandsarah (Mar 27, 2014)

Well I think the fact that he will take a treat from you at all is tremendous. If he likes millet, then I would continue to work by using treats often. Animal training in general has shown that if an animal associates a person with food/treats then there is a good chance they will begin to associate the person with good things. So... I think there is hope! even if it's slim. If you want him to come out of the cage on his own (so that maybe he won't be upset) could you attach a treat to the door just outside the opening? I'm not sure, but maybe once he was used to being out of the cage this would help remove the territorial part. Also, I'd be worried that a new cage could be a set back since his only source of comfort would be gone, but if you want him to have more space that could be a plus for him. 

Congrats on the end of quarantine! It's so good to hear that the other bird seems to be settling in.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

anni103079 said:


> I know a month doesn't seem like that long... and maybe to him not long at all. However after a month Id think hed be calmed down enough so I could reach into his cage to clean it, and to fill up his water and food dishes. With out being hissed at or lunged at.
> I also only had his wings clipped as the vet suggested it , and said it would help with taming. ( also read this in this very forum)
> And I believe I have been patient.. I don't just chase him around his cage trying to get him to accept me. I talk to him , I try interacting with him. And I'm trying to get him to get use to my hands by handling him,trying to hand feed him, and putting my hands in his cage "territory" so he will eventually accept me. ( again read in other posts in this forum )
> I've also tried taking him out of his cage, handling him ,Wearing gloves, so he realized that the biting doesn't affect me any.
> ...


You have gotten a lot of good suggestions in this tread. I especially like Newtonian's advice.

I'm sorry this guy is proving to be a bit of a challenge...and I'm also sorry I came off as so cranky in my other responses. It's just that a month is really nothing, and it's way too early to be at your wits' end. You may continue to have your patience tested for a lot longer than that. You mentioned that you are tempted to rehome him, because you're so frustrated, so my first thought was hey -- take a deep breath, take a few moments to consider his point of view.

As for the wing clipping, it is a common practice and yes, some vets will recommend it. I'm personally not a fan of it, but I don't blame you for taking the vet's suggestion. I was just pointing out that it could be something adding to his frustration. You mentioned that you try taking him out and putting him on the tree...so from his perspective, he has not only had his mobility taken away, but his free will. Maybe he isn't ready to come out of the cage yet, and maybe the fact that he sometimes gets "messed with" when he's out is making him more angry and insecure.

I just think you need to give it a lot more time, and give the poor guy some space. You really have no idea what he is thinking or feeling. It may seem extreme to say that you are a big scary monster to him, but that could be exactly how he perceives you. A human is a predator many times his size.

If I'm understanding correctly, when you put your hand in the cage to change the food and water, he is biting. Does he actually RUN up to your hand and start biting you, or does he try to move away? If he moves away, and he is in a big enough cage, he should be able to get himself at a distance from you that he feels comfortable with, and it shouldn't be a big deal. If he does not have adequate space to get away from you, he could be feeling threatened, cornered and trapped. Cockatiels very rarely bite without warning (hissing and lunging are warnings), so if you are getting bitten a lot I think you are probably just not respecting his boundaries.

When you do have to reach in the cage for whatever reason, do it slowly, talk to him in a friendly, calm voice, and don't stare at him. Don't make a big deal of it, just do what you need to do...eventually, he will learn that your hand in the cage does not mean anything unpleasant for him. You said you're already doing the food bribery thing, which is good, but keep in mind that for it to be successful, everything has to be the bird's choice. His choice to accept the food, his choice to come a little closer, his choice to step up onto a perch or onto you. Baby steps. If you rush it you will break the trust and be back at square one. It can be an agonizingly slow process.

I also agree that he could potentially be hormonal. Sorry if you already said before, but do you know how old he is? Males can go through a bratty teenage phase. But adult birds can also get hormonal at any time if their environment triggers it. There is some good info on here about hormone control.

I think more likely though, he simply feels threatened by you and is scared. You said you don't want the advice "leave him alone" but honestly that is exactly what I would do for a little while, until he starts to be calmer in your presence.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

9-10 hours of darkness isn't enough...12-14 hours is the amount of darkness that usually works to calm hormones. It may seem like a long time, but if you stick to it you might end up with a completely different bird.


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## anni103079 (Jul 15, 2013)

Thank you all for responding. I tried every thing suggested tonight. He happily ate millet tonight while I cleaned up his cage, And I moved slower, while feeding and watering them tonight. He backed away a little but didn't lunge at me or even hiss. He did climb up the cage wall later on thou, when I was wiping down his perch ( which I expected.. But HE DIDNT BITE, or even lunge at me!!!) Ill also increase the hours of covering their cage. Hopefully it'll help them. 
I'm sure I have been disrespecting his boundaries, and rushing the taming process. So I will be slowing things down a bit- and stop taking his behaviors personally. 
( I also have to keep reminding myself I have no idea what their living environment was like before I got them, But I do remember how disgusted I was with how dirty their cage was, and how bad the cage and the birds smelled, and how under weight they were. They were mistreated , Im sure. ( even if they talk - pretty bird- whatcha doing , ect ) when I took them to the vet they had mites,both had an upper respiratory infection (bacterial),and they both still have some dry skin problems , but the vet said misting will help and to mist them 3x a week ) 

The lady that my husband got these birds from said they were 2-3 years old. They don't have a band so I have to take her word for it. The vet said they are still young but couldn't say for sure how old they were but 2-4 years old sounded about right.


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## goose'smom (Jan 1, 2014)

It feels personal when something you love does not love you back. Regardless of the time frame that is normal or expected, it is just hard and makes you feel bad. I sympathize with how you feel very much. My first bird showed no improvement for 3 months! She hated me as much in day 90 as she did day one. I was an emotional wreck. I researched everything and spent so many hours with her a day, but she hated me! So one weekend I took her with me on a two hour trip to my moms, she watch us interact all weekend. Then one night when I was pulling my moms hair through one of those highlight caps, she started screaming like she wanted out of her cage, so I opened the door then walked back to my mom and just gave her space. She hopped to the floor, crawled up my mom to her head and start helping me pull her hair through the cap with her beak. After that she was completely tame. She just needed to see a relationship. It was like we taught her to trust through seeing us. It' still amazing to me! But my point is, it can happen in the most unexpected way. Continue to believe in the best and remember that this little guy needs you!! I have every faith that he will get to a place of trust. Keep being sweet, keep giving treats, make up a little song just for him, and always act really calm and happy! Good luck! Prayers for you from me


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## tweetsandsarah (Mar 27, 2014)

I'm happy to hear there has been a little bit of progress! It sounds like you're doing very good things and hopefully your hard work will pay off. Thank you for continuing to try and showing this bird that the world can be a good place with good people. Keep us updated! I look forward to hearing about your bonding process.


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