# Has anyone dealt with psittacosis?



## liltweets (Oct 31, 2008)

The diagnosis has a long complicated background, too much to go into as this has been going on for about 2 months. 

Finally drove 2 hours to see a vet that eventually put them on injectable doxycycline (she's pretty darn sure it is psittacosis even though the test came back negative, long story on that too) and they are finally improving. It did affect (or infect) their livers like psittacosis can do. Their urine is finally clear again. It was yellow. They're also on Milk Thistle. 

I also have 2 budgies who aren't showing symptoms but are being treated.

Has anyone had a bird or birds diagnosed with it and treated and they didn't become reinfected? 

I have scrubbed everything and disinfected with F10. I have misted the carpets and even dusted a little with it. :blink: 

I think my female was the carrier. I knew something wasn't quite right with her for a while but nothing was found by the vet. She wasn't showing symptoms of being really sick, just "off". I've had her almost a year but I know they can carry it a long time without showing symptoms, if ever.

I'm so relieved to find out what it is and have it treated. Once they became really sick with it, it hit them hard. 

I just hope they don't become reinfected.


----------



## bird brain (May 30, 2010)

Sorry to hear you are having to go through this.

You may not know even if they did become reinfected because, like you said, you can test and test and the result can be negative, even if they're not negative; and birds can be infected and yet remain completely asymptomatic. But yes, it is possible that they won't become reinfected, but unfortunately you would never be able to be sure.

Were the budgies tested for it?


----------



## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

My Cockatiel Leo had it, then my mum's Cockatiel Charlie had it - they were the only ones that were showing signs and then were tested and got a posotive, none of the other Cockatiels or any of the other birds showed any signs of having it like Leo and Charlie did, but I had to treat all the birds to be extra sure that if they did even though they weren't showing any signs, that they'd be safe having being given the treatment as well. I had to scrub all the cages twice, soaked and scrubbed their toys, perches, dishes etc. I also had to clean the carpet in the bird room and wiped down all the walls in there. Oh and I made sure I changed clothing afterwards and threw everything in the wash.

I read that they can be a "carrier" forever once they have it, so even if they have had the treatment and they're tested again and get a negative, it doesn't mean it won't re-occur. I don't know how true it is, but if it is true, it's going to be an on-going thing and you have to make sure they're treated straight away.


----------



## liltweets (Oct 31, 2008)

bird brain said:


> Sorry to hear you are having to go through this.
> 
> You may not know even if they did become reinfected because, like you said, you can test and test and the result can be negative, even if they're not negative; and birds can be infected and yet remain completely asymptomatic. But yes, it is possible that they won't become reinfected, but unfortunately you would never be able to be sure.
> 
> Were the budgies tested for it?


That's what I figured, that I may never know if they become reinfected, if they remain without symptoms. No, the budgies weren't tested but they are being treated also..even though I was told by one vet that it's pointless if they aren't showing symptoms OR shedding it since it's (the chlamydia that causes psittacosis) protected in the cells and won't be killed by the Vibravenous until it's released. But since there can be false negatives my vet is treating them anyway without testing.  They've been in very close contact with my 'tiels. 



Solace. said:


> My Cockatiel Leo had it, then my mum's Cockatiel Charlie had it - they were the only ones that were showing signs and then were tested and got a posotive, none of the other Cockatiels or any of the other birds showed any signs of having it like Leo and Charlie did, but I had to treat all the birds to be extra sure that if they did even though they weren't showing any signs, that they'd be safe having being given the treatment as well. I had to scrub all the cages twice, soaked and scrubbed their toys, perches, dishes etc. I also had to clean the carpet in the bird room and wiped down all the walls in there. Oh and I made sure I changed clothing afterwards and threw everything in the wash.
> 
> I read that they can be a "carrier" forever once they have it, so even if they have had the treatment and they're tested again and get a negative, it doesn't mean it won't re-occur. I don't know how true it is, but if it is true, it's going to be an on-going thing and you have to make sure they're treated straight away.


Hi Renae, did you scrub the cages and everything two different times? What did you use? I've scrubbed all toys, perches, cages, everything and then soaked everything down with F10 and let it all dry in the sun. I sprayed the walls down with it too. I also cleaned my bagless vacuum with the F10 and all the filters. I read it can even live in feather dust. I also read they quit shedding it a few days after the first injection. I still changes cage papers several times and get up droppings off of anything else and spray with F10. 

I also read they can be carriers once they have it. I also read more birds have it than have been diagnosed because of being carriers with no symptoms ... that it's more common than realized. 

I hope they don't become reinfected but if they do at least we know what we're dealing with now and can start treatment right away. They were very sick birdies until the new vet figured it out.


----------



## bird brain (May 30, 2010)

liltweets said:


> I was told by one vet that it's pointless if they aren't showing symptoms OR shedding it since it's (the chlamydia that causes psittacosis) protected in the cells and won't be killed by the Vibravenous until it's released.


Yeah that's what made me ask, I think I also read something which said don't treat if they come back negative and aren't showing symptoms. Not sure about that though.

I know someone who recently had an outbreak of it and she had to be treated for it and have a quarantine sign on her house and everything. It is a nasty one, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is more common than we think, yes.


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*ALL* birds have the chlamydia bacteria. It is part of most birds numerous bacterial makeup in the body. With 99% of the birds it is rarely an isssue unless they are subjected to extreme stress, or have another underlying problem., and the chlamydia bacteria surfaces as a secondary infection.


----------



## liltweets (Oct 31, 2008)

Hi Susanne, I didn't know that. So it would be like (and this is probably not a good comparison) when birds have a yeast infection, the yeast is there already but something causes an overgrowth? 
I'm wondering if having a rescue quaker here for several months that needed so much attention (he had zinc toxicity when I got him) stressed them out. They aren't use to louder more high strung birds and of course they are use to all of my attention. 

Could you post some links for me about them already having the chlamydia bacteria? I'd like to read more about it and I couldn't find any links. I only found ones about active infections or being "carriers", shedding and not showing symptoms but still able to pass it on.


----------



## liltweets (Oct 31, 2008)

bird brain said:


> Yeah that's what made me ask, I think I also read something which said don't treat if they come back negative and aren't showing symptoms. Not sure about that though.
> 
> I know someone who recently had an outbreak of it and she had to be treated for it and have a quarantine sign on her house and everything. It is a nasty one, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is more common than we think, yes.


Yes, if mine had tested positive my house would be quarantined too. Although I do have it quarantined myself right now. We haven't caught it yet and that's a chance we take but I sure don't want anyone else to catch it. 
The neighbors would have wondered what in the world we had. :blush:


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

_*So it would be like (and this is probably not a good comparison) when birds have a yeast infection, the yeast is there already but something causes an overgrowth? *_
_*--------------------------------*_

Yes...it is the same comparison as you posted. Years ago I saved, and can't find  an old link and posting that was done at a university in AZ that had stated that this bacteria is in all birds. it had also stated that many vets also profit from this because when a bird is stressed it may shed/pass this bacteria, thus many birds needlessly go thru threatment, which they should just be treated for stress and supplemental vits. to build back the immune system.


----------



## liltweets (Oct 31, 2008)

That's interesting. So unless they're showing symptoms of active infection it is best not to treat and may even be pointless. ? 

Mine were very sick. They started showing improvement very soon after their first injection. They get their 3rd one today. I would say they are 90% better. It's just going to take some time for them to regain all their strength since they were sick for so long before a vet finally figured it out. (The vets around here aren't too good). The one 2 hours from here was definitely worth the drive.

Would you recommend echinacea? I have Nature's Answer Milk Thistle in a alcohol free tincture. They didn't do well on MT/lactulose. I think it may have upset their tummies (the lactulose) I read it can in humans. They fluffed and didn't feel well for hours after I gave it. The yellow urine is gone so I'm thinking they had infection in their livers. Their AST was high, alpha 1 globulin was increased a little and albumin was a little low. Bile acids were fine. I'll have more blood work done in the future. 

I put the Milk Thistle in their water and change it several times per day. Do you know how much echinacea would go in 6 ounces of water? I don't know the mixture ratio of the echinacea. I'd have to look it up. I think that was is to be given for so many days/weeks then a break, then back on it? 

Thanks so much for your help!


----------



## bird brain (May 30, 2010)

I've never read that all bird have it either, it's got me curious now though.

I don't know if the echinacea will help much or not, but I've got 5 drops per cup of water for the dose. I also just read that if the lactulose causes diarrhoea then you just need to reduce the dose.


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

If your were very sick then treating would be best...BUT, you also want to give things to help support their system. I prefer the lactulose over the milk thistle. If the lactulose is causing loose droppings them the dosage has to be reduced. below is some info I have saved that will help maintain good liver health when treating. I feel the sunlight or full spectrum lighting is also Very benefical...
----------------------
Under normal circumstances a bird mfg. and synthesizes vitamin C in the body. When it is sick the body’s ability to do this is hindered, thus supplementing is needed. This is *especially* so when you have suspected hepatic (liver) problems or damage. Vitamin C is a great supplement when sick and to aid the body when there are liver problems. A liver is regenerative, but it needs to be given the *tools* to help heal itself

Some of the tools are: vitamin C (while sick), lactulose, natural exposure to sunlight or full spectrum lighting close to the caging, and a changing of caging ... such as a flight cage that encourages more movement and exercise, or even flight time daily. When there are liver problems and the function of the liver is hindered this also can effect vitamin A which is formed in the liver from beta‑carotene, thus many times this supplement (beta-carotene) is needed, and also an increase of the water soluble nutrients to the body. Brewers Yeast is an excellent source for these.

Milk thistle can be given for liver problems. Dandelion can also be given to detoxify and act as a stimulant to the liver. 1 drop of each (in extract form) to each 1/2 ounce of lactulose (some info below) can be mixed up and the bird given a drop 2 times a day. These 2 herbal extracts can also be added to the drinking water at a ratio of 1 drop to 3 ounces of water, and changed 2 times a day.

I've found that everything has a *cause and effect* to other body functions in our feathered friends. To help them many times we have to get to the root of the problem, such as *why* your bird does have a suspected liver problem. Also how does this effect the other organs, and go from there. Many times giving the body the needed supplements and nutritional support (tools) can do more healing than any medication.

*Lactulose (Cephulac)*​ 
Lactulose acts as an osmosis retardant to the absorption of potential toxins from the GI tract. Used as a treatment with liver disease to decrease the load of metabolites that must be processed through the liver. What this does is reduce toxic potential of the blood ammonia due to liver dysfunction. 

It also acts as an appetite stimulant. 

It acidifies the intestinal contents.

It is also be effective in establishing a gastrointestinal environment that favors the growth of intestinal flora. This eliminates the need for lactobacillus supplementing. Can be used daily for weeks. *If diarrhea is noted reduce the dosage.*

​


----------



## liltweets (Oct 31, 2008)

Hi bird brain, I read echinacea may help strengthen the immune system and I read that about DMG too. My vet had mentioned putting them on echinacea, I'll talk to her more about it. Thanks for the info on the dose that you have.

I lowered the dose of lactulose and it still made them feel bad.


----------



## liltweets (Oct 31, 2008)

Hi Susanne, I'll get some brewers yeast. I already have dandelion tincture but haven't given it in a while since they were a little dehydrated at first and it's a natural diuretic. They're still drinking a lot of water. I don't know if it's because of the infection or the med? 
My vet also has them on red palm oil (AVIx). She said that is to help build immunity also? 

What do you recommend as far as Vit C, anything other than foods?

Thanks!


----------



## bird brain (May 30, 2010)

liltweets said:


> Hi bird brain, I read echinacea may help strengthen the immune system and I read that about DMG too. My vet had mentioned putting them on echinacea, I'll talk to her more about it. Thanks for the info on the dose that you have.
> 
> I lowered the dose of lactulose and it still made them feel bad.


I just re-read my post, I didn't word it very well. I just meant I have no idea whether it will help in your situation, so I couldn't answer your question fully . But yes it does help strengthen the immune system.


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*What do you recommend as far as Vit C, anything other than foods?*
--------------------------------------------

You can take a Vit C tablet and crush it, and dust the foods 1-2 X a week while on treatments. One the tiel is off treatment for a week or more there is no need to supplement C because their body mfg. it.

If your birds like greens and veggies you can do the is site: http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ and look up the nitrient and vitamin levels.


----------



## liltweets (Oct 31, 2008)

I'll do that. Thank you! and thanks for the link, very helpful.


----------

