# WARNING Bad Hand-feeding formula



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I got this from (below my posting) a bird list I am on. We are allowed to cross post. I'm not sure how to read their packaging codes/lot #'s It might be best that anyone that is or will soon be hand-feeding to look into using another brand of formula I believe it was Susan Clubb, a well respected vet in FL that forwarded the info to the list owner.

I've gone thru this with the Zupreem Embrace in the early 2000's It was a nightmare for hand-feeders all over the US because Zupreem denied there was a problem. Several of us breeders had the formula analyzed by the USDA, and the result was the formula mix was contaminated with a pesticide. The USDA in several states pulled unopened bags from the shelves in stores that had that specific lot # and all were contaminated. That's the short version of what happened. 

*NOTE:* If anyone is having problems now with the Kaytee formula I suggest that the 1st step is to go to a vet. Bring the bag of formula with you so that the vet can record the lot# and take a sample to send to USDA for analysis (they do this free) From what I determined below the excess D is causing renal problems and failure. I expereienced this several years ago from a bad batch. The *ONLY* thing that reversed this was Sub-Q fluids. The babies have to be fully hydrated, and will need to be on antibiotics for possible secondary bacterial infections. 


----- Forwarded message from Susan Clubb <[email protected]> -----

Important announcement regarding hand rearing formula with excess vitamin
D. Please do ot feed any formula of the lots listed below.

Begin forwarded message:

From: Randal Brue <[1][email protected]>
Date: April 8, 2012 7:58:26 PM EDT
To: [2][email protected]
Subject: IMPORTANT - Kaytee Handfeeding Formula


Susan,

Final lab results were concluded on Friday and indicated
that product was produced incorrectly. Involved was one production
batch of Handfeeding Formula for Baby Birds and one of Macaw Handfeeding
Formula. Both of these have levels of vitamin D3 that may cause kidney
damage, the severity of which will be dependent on the species being
fed, age of babies fed and the duration of feeding. 

The following packaging code dates are of concern:

Click for a larger view:


----------



## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

The SKU are the numbers above the UPC. Where can these be returned to if they are unopened?


----------



## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

Oh my goodness! I am so glad you posted this! i use Kaytee in the summer when i take in abandon/fallen chicks from outside. Previous years have been good, i will have to find a new brand this year!


----------



## RexiesMuM (Sep 7, 2011)

Whew thanks for info Susanne , I am happy mine isn't with that batch cause i had been feeding it to Peanut


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I beleive the bags can be returned to the store where they were bought at. I had heard that Kaytee would also soon be posting info about this on their website.

If you do have any that have the questionable lots you can try to find either a Consumer's Affairs or the USDA office locally to have them do an analysis on it. This service was free when I had it done. Or you can give your vet a sample to have it analyzed.


----------



## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I have a bag with the same UPC & expiration date, but the SKU is different. I will be sure to have it tested before using it. I am lucky I bought both Kaytee and Zupreem this year. For the time being the Kaytee is going to be put aside and not used.


----------



## leeisme (Feb 4, 2011)

I had 2 tiels die from old man and cocoa;s last clutch both from kaytee handfeeding formula in February they were 2 weeks old. They were vet treated and diagnosed with poisoning.


----------



## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I can't find anything on snopes, but this was interesting also... http://news.petpardons.com/scotts-miracle-gro-pleads-guilty-to-killing-birds-with-poisoned-seeds/


----------



## rockysmum (Mar 1, 2011)

I have warned my bird breeding friends, everyone says thank you srtiels


----------



## angelmommy24 (Nov 20, 2011)

leeisme said:


> I had 2 tiels die from old man and cocoa;s last clutch both from kaytee handfeeding formula in February they were 2 weeks old. They were vet treated and diagnosed with poisoning.


I am do sorry for your loss! I am pulling my formula and going out to find a new brand today


----------



## angelmommy24 (Nov 20, 2011)

I'm returning the formula today my expiration date and UPC matches not taking any chances thank you!


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Someone from another group has been forwarding emails to me about this. Today I got this message:

From vet, Susan Clubb: 

Yes the signs are stunting, dehydrated, vomiting, and ultimately death. They can crash very quickly.

Please everyone keep good records, because if you need to make a claim you will need records, and need to retain the bodies of any birds which die.

Change their USA immediately. If you feel chicks are affected give the extra fluids and be sure to keep records. Allopurinol may help to reduce blood uric acid levels but will not correct the damage if done. If any babies died, refrigerate or freeze them.

More info will be coming available as soon as possible. 

The most important thing is to avoid feeding the lots identified as toxic. All other lots are Ok.

Susan Clubb DVM


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*They can crash very quickly.*
*give the extra fluids* 
------------------------------------

Tielfan....can you check the bags, way at the bottom to see who was the Mfg. For awhile, after Kaytee sold out to Central Garden Pets, I believe the mfg. of the formula was contracted to Zupreem, and Premium International Products is the mfg. for them. If Kaytee's labeling shows the same mfg. then I would strongly advise to seek another brand of formula....Such as *Roudybush Formula 3*. That has always been my backup when I ran into questionable formula.

It sounds like the same symptoms as the Zupreem fiasco almost a decade ago. Weight loss is *rapid!* Meaning if a baby crashes it can lose up to 25-30 grams in a 24 hr. period of time. (see 1st pix) As to fluids use Coconut water to mix the formula. It does a better job of hydrating than electrolytes. *But if* this formula is hitting the renal/kidneys, acting fast and *Sub-Q fluids* is a must. If a person does not know how have a vet or someone show you what to do. The 2nd pix shows what a bad batch of formula will do to the kidneys. The pix is from a baby that died of renal failure from bad formula.

*refrigerate or freeze them.*

I would strongly suggest that if a baby died to take it to a vet ASAP, and get a necropsy done. Either yourself or the vet should digitally document the necrospys and what damage was done to the organs. With mine there was also serious liver damage. Also bring a sample of the formula for the vet to have sent out.


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Here is a link to the recall page on the Kaytee site. It also has a complete listing of ther bad batches, and some Q&A towards the bottom of the page: http://www.kaytee.com/pet-birds/kaytee-exact-hand-feeding-update.htm


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Tielfan....can you check the bags, way at the bottom to see who was the Mfg.


I don't have any bags of formula at the moment, but several people who do have posted in this thread. Will one of these people please check your bag and post the info here? Thanks.


----------



## leeisme (Feb 4, 2011)

tielfan said:


> Yes the signs are stunting, dehydrated, vomiting, and ultimately death. They can crash very quickly.




THis is what happened to mine... the vomiting and stunting. When they died, They had a frothy foam coming out of their mouths. I was so heartbroken.


----------



## P.J (Feb 14, 2011)

*Kaytee - Product Recall Information*

Kaytee have now posted a *Product Recall Information* link on their site with advice on how to treat affected birds. Please refer to the link below:

http://www.kaytee.com/pet-birds/kaytee-exact-hand-feeding-update.htm


----------



## JaimeS (Nov 28, 2011)

I got an e-mail about this from Petsmart. I bought my formula there that I fed to Ama so I checked it and it is okay thank goodness!


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

OMG i just read this !! I am 3/4 of the way through a tub that has matching upc numbers that are effected 
Im not noticing anything wrong with my baby but am really worried now, I just fed him and put him to bed. Im going to Petsmart first thing and calling Kaytee. What to do, will he be ok ?


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

If you have had no problems that is great. I would contact Kaytee and explain you have been using one of the listed UPC 3's and haven't had problems, but if you do can they advise on what to do.


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

I just ran to Petsmart (got there 5 minutes before it closed) and they exchanged it for the Lafebers nutristart, its all they had grrr.
If it had effected his kidneys would i have seen something by now? How can i cleanse him out? Cilantro maybe? I wont be able to get hold of Kaytee till Monday 
This little one needs to get his big boy pants on and eat more seed, hes nearly 7 weeks and still on 3 feeds (decreasing middle one) For some reason he wont hardly touch millet and doesnt eat enough seeds to sustain himself. Slowpoke!!!


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*How can i cleanse him out? Cilantro maybe? I wont be able to get hold of Kaytee till Monday *
----------------------------
Yes....you would have seen indications by now. The first indication would be an upright pequin like stance. The urine will be stained pink from blood. 

If you have a Whole Foods store in your area try and get the following herbal extracts. Corn Silk, and Dandelion (it comes in several mixtures, pick one that says the root included in the labeling) If still handfeeding add 2 drops of each to each feeding. If weaning you can add 1/2 dropper ful to his water bowl. This has worked for me.


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

Phew thats a relief, im seeing no symptoms at all, hes his happy little velcro self!!
Whole foods is quite a way from me, i will check him tomorrow and change formula. Thank you soooo much !!


----------



## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I don't know if this is old info, but I talked to the guy at Petco today, he said that bags had to be scanned in order to get the SKU. He seemed very helpful and said that if it was on the recall list they will help, so tomorrow I'm going to get mine scanned and let you all know.

srtiels, 

I know you asked for these but where, I'm not sure. I hope this helps. I'm not sure if I got what you wanted and they are a little blurry. This is for a 5 lb bag.


----------



## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

This is scary, I am not really a fan of Kaytee, but I am glad this is getting around to those that may be using it.


----------

