# It would appear that Echo wants to move in with Smokey



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

The sooner i get a new cage for the both of them the better!

They seem to have bonded really well, but now Echo is completely refusing to go into her own cage and instead is hanging out on Smokey's.

I won't be able to get a new cage for about a month or so and Smokey's, whilst roomy for one tiel is not big enough for two until i get a new one. Not sure what to do now. Echo is biting me when i try to get her to step up, then she just flies right back to Smokey's before i can put her back in hers. Tried with the stick which she has learnt really well to hop up onto and again she just goes straight back to Smokey's.

I'm wondering whether to put them in seperate rooms again until i train and bond with Echo a little more, but they seem bonded now already >.<

Any advice? Do i just let Echo move into Smokey's for the next month or carry on the battling to get her back into her own? Echo seems more attached to Smokey than he is to Echo.


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

How big is Smokey's cage? Dimension?


----------



## Hecken (Dec 23, 2012)

Could you not put Echo's cage right next to Smokeys until your new cage arrives?


----------



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

Smokey's cage is 2ft by 2ft and *gets measuring tape* 27" tall. I really think it's too small for two tiels, even if it is only temporary for a month. They're out pretty much all day apart from snooze/eating time. Smokey's trying to get a snooze now and Echo is sitting on top.

Echo's cage is already right next to Smokey's. I've been trying to get her back into her own cage for the last hour and she just keeps backing away and ducking her head down, the way tiels do when they're angry.


----------



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

I managed to get her into her own cage eventually by mostly covering Smokey's apart from the bit she was sitting on. Once she couldn't see him she hopped onto the stick then my finger and went back into her own cage. Maybe Smokey can get his nap in peace now lol.


----------



## hysteriauk (Jun 24, 2012)

I think it is cool that they are so friendly already, especially after what you have been thru with smokey


----------



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

I was sitting having a conversation with the birdies the other day (probably cos i live on my own haha) and said to Echo that maybe she could help me teach Smokey to trust more lol.

Wait... does this mean i'm a crazy bird lady instead of a crazy cat lady? 

Nah seriously, maybe if Smokey sees that Echo likes scratches and is very good at sitting on me and taking seed from me, maybe he'll decide i'm not so bad too lol.

I was sitting watching them yesterday and it was like Smokey was teaching Echo how to preen properly


----------



## hysteriauk (Jun 24, 2012)

Don't worry I have full conversations with zippy , just had one with him actually about his lack of enthusiasm for having a shower/bath.

He is watching the footie with me and is really into it lol


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Loopy Lou said:


> Wait... does this mean i'm a crazy bird lady instead of a crazy cat lady?


Yes. Yes it does.


----------



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

Oh dear i just put them in for the night after another little battle with Echo, and now Echo is flapping wings like mad as if to say "Lemme back out again, i wanna go over there!"

It's 11pm here now though so definitely bed time! I'll cover them up for now and wait til Echo settles down before going to bed. I think i'll have to get a new cage sooner rather than later, but Smokey and Bob's vet visits last week have cleaned me out!

Enigma - it's a good job i'm in fine company then lol


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

For a month, if Smokey allows it, I think that may be okay actually. It really depends on how well they get along with each other.


----------



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

Well i think what i'll do for now is open Smokey's cage, put them both on top and see what happens. If Smokey doesn't allow it and gets angry then i'll remove Echo again and put her back in her own cage.

So... yeah i'll give it a trial run for the next few hours and see what happens.


----------



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

Well so far Echo went into the cage, had a look around and Smokey just sort of sat at his foodbowl having a good look. I put the food bowl in from Echo's cage too since Smokey was NOT going to share his and chased Echo away from it.

Echo now sitting on top playing with the fasteners for the top door of the cage 

Keeping a close eye on them!


----------



## thistle (Sep 21, 2012)

Sounds good so far.


----------



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

Well, all was going fairly well until Echo managed to get to the food bowl. Even though Smokey was happily munching at the other side of the cage he saw Echo at "His" food bowl and went tramping over there to give Echo a good telling off. Tried to pull at her wing feathers and round the head/crest area. Mostly i think it was just giving her a bit of a beak bashing but i've split them up again now. Something to be attempted again when i get the new cage i think.

Thistle - how are your two getting on in your new cage, because i'm thinking of getting that one. Do they have plenty of space to get away from each other if needed?

I'm thinking when i get the new cage, if it's a completely new set up then perhaps Smokey won't get so territorial. Plus it'd be much bigger so i could put a set of food bowls opposite each other.

Oh yeah, they'll quite happily share seed/millet/treats on the playstand when they're out together, they get on fine there.


----------



## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Loopy Lou said:


> I was sitting having a conversation with the birdies the other day (probably cos i live on my own haha) and said to Echo that maybe she could help me teach Smokey to trust more lol.
> 
> Wait... does this mean i'm a crazy bird lady instead of a crazy cat lady?
> :


My fiance caught me yesterday reading the list of ingredients in Sunny's new Higgin's Worldly Cuisine Mix to him in an effort to convince Sunny he would like it if he tried it, after he snubbed his beak at it twice. :blush: I think he was ready to have me committed. :blink:

But glad to hear Echo and Smokey like each other even if the food dish is an issue.


----------



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

Yeah, it's just Smokey's cage that's an issue. Echo wants to be there all the time. It's ok if they're both on top of the cage, but if Smokey is inside it and Echo gets too close he doesn't like it. He's pretty territorial, especially of his food bowl and his bell. I'm thinking that a new cage big enough for the both of them wouldn't be "Smokey's" territory though so it would probably go better.

Don't worry, me and you will be crazy together lol


----------



## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Plus, if it's a new cage and they both move in at the same time then it would be "theirs" and not "his". I think..... Of course, I bought Sunny a new cage months ago and he still won't go near it but that's a whole other subject....

Shared craziness I think works well.


----------



## Rose (Nov 15, 2012)

*Crazy bird lady*

I discuss all my business with Henry and Flappy along with asking for their opinions. Yup. Crazy all right.

I would say this...and please someone correct me if I'm wrong...We all love our tiels and want them to be thrilled to live with us. 

Keep in mind, however, who is in charge of the flock...you. Try not to drive yourself nuts with who wants what. The final say is yours and they'll be fine with it.


----------



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

Rose said:


> Keep in mind, however, who is in charge of the flock...you. Try not to drive yourself nuts with who wants what. The final say is yours and they'll be fine with it.




It's not just a question of who wants what, it's what is best for my birds to keep them healthy and happy, the two go hand in hand.

Birds don't understand "Right, i'm the boss, you do what i want".

But that's who they are and part of the reason why i love them <3


----------



## xNx (Jun 6, 2012)

Rose said:


> I discuss all my business with Henry and Flappy along with asking for their opinions. Yup. Crazy all right.
> 
> I would say this...and please someone correct me if I'm wrong...We all love our tiels and want them to be thrilled to live with us.
> 
> Keep in mind, however, who is in charge of the flock...you. Try not to drive yourself nuts with who wants what. The final say is yours and they'll be fine with it.


That font is sooo annoying.. Anyway we do things to keep our birds as healthy and happy as possible, 'who's in charge' doesn't really come in as a factor


----------



## Rose (Nov 15, 2012)

*I was making a suggestion. I didn't realize you'd be so defensive. You can spend all your time analyzing what's up with your birds, or you can let them adust...all I was trying to say*


----------



## Korvia (Aug 3, 2012)

Loopy Lou said:


> Wait... does this mean i'm a crazy bird lady instead of a crazy cat lady?


Hardly crazy, I talk to cookie all the time from things like "whatcha doin?" to "do you want a pet cow" just to see him shake his head no.

What happens if you take both food dishes out and change them around? or would there still be bickering?


----------



## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

Korvia said:


> Hardly crazy, I talk to cookie all the time from things like "whatcha doin?" to "do you want a pet cow" just to see him shake his head no.


Lol, Korvia! This is the way I talk to my dog just to watch her eyebrows go up and down. XD I often wonder what they think of their 'crazy' people...


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Rearranging Smokey's cage so its completely new to him as well, may make him more accepting of Echo in the cage. Just something to try out. And also too, if the bell is something he'll get possessive over, I would only let him have it out of the cage for a bit so he isn't mean to her in the cage. Just somethings to try...


----------



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

roxy culver said:


> Rearranging Smokey's cage so its completely new to him as well, may make him more accepting of Echo in the cage. Just something to try out. And also too, if the bell is something he'll get possessive over, I would only let him have it out of the cage for a bit so he isn't mean to her in the cage. Just somethings to try...


That's a good idea, ta 

I'll change it around later on, Echo had a night fright last night and there was a drop of blood in her cage this morning. She snagged a feather under her wing but i've checked and there's been no further blood.

I'll put the bell on the playstand, he's not possessive over anything on there, just in his cage


----------



## thistle (Sep 21, 2012)

Loopy Lou said:


> Well, all was going fairly well until Echo managed to get to the food bowl. Even though Smokey was happily munching at the other side of the cage he saw Echo at "His" food bowl and went tramping over there to give Echo a good telling off. Tried to pull at her wing feathers and round the head/crest area. Mostly i think it was just giving her a bit of a beak bashing but i've split them up again now. Something to be attempted again when i get the new cage i think.
> 
> *Thistle - how are your two getting on in your new cage, because i'm thinking of getting that one. Do they have plenty of space to get away from each other if needed?*
> 
> ...


Sammy and Willow love their new cage and there's plenty of space for the 2 of them to get away from each other, although Willow doesn't get the whole 'personal space' thing and always wants to get as close as possible to Sammy, much to her disgust. Sammy did let her sleep on the same perch the other day, which is a big step forward. Was funny to watch though as Willow kept waiting till Sammy closed her eyes and then edging closer. When Sammy opened her eye's, Willow would stop, look away, pretending she wasn't doing anything, until Sammy stopped watching, she'd then start moving closer again. Eventually Sammy would catch her moving, give a screech, hiss and a peck until Willow moved back to where she started. Sammy'd give her the evil eye for a while and then settle down again but as soon as her eye's closed Willow would start edging closer again. I watched this go on for over an hour until they eventually reached a compromise and slept about 4" apart. :lol:

I've been shutting them in the cage over night and letting them out again at 9am. In the old cage Sammy would have gone nuts being shut in and would have been out before I'd finished opening the door, but in the new cage it can be half an hour or more before she comes out when the door's opened. Tomorrow is going to be the real test though as I'm going to the homoeopathic hospital first thing and won't be back until after 3pm so they will both be shut in the cage till then. This will be the 1st time they've been left in the cage during the day as I'm pretty much house bound and rarely go out. I know that I'll come back to some dirty looks from Sammy, but fingers crossed she'll get over it quickly and it will not put her off being shut in the cage again.


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> That font is sooo annoying..


But not against the forum rules.


----------



## xNx (Jun 6, 2012)

roxy culver said:


> But not against the forum rules.


Haha  *Can I write like this?*


----------



## Rose (Nov 15, 2012)

I realize that font was obnoxious but I couldn't change it after I sent it. I see your point and apologize. I got some feedback from staff about changing fonts and will stick to the default.


----------



## xNx (Jun 6, 2012)

Rose said:


> I realize that font was obnoxious but I couldn't change it after I sent it. I see your point and apologize. I got some feedback from staff about changing fonts and will stick to the default.


You don't have to apologise at all, i'm just making a light hearted joke out of it


----------



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

Well i just rearranged the cage earlier today and then let them make their own way inside. I put two food bowls next to each other and they happily sat and ate from their own. I rearranged all the toys and took out Smokey's bell which i put on the playstand. They're both currently sharing a perch quite peacefully and having a nap 

I think this could work out well til i get the new cage


----------



## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm glad it's working out!


----------



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

Echo keeps sidling up to Smokey with her head bowed and Smokey is NOT giving scritches lol.


----------



## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

Lol! Poor Echo! 
To Echo: C'mere, I'll scratch your head, baby.


----------



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

I just reached in to scratch her head but she doesn't want scratches off me now lol 

I don't think i'll cover them up tonight in case Echo gets a night fright.


----------



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

thistle said:


> Sammy and Willow love their new cage and there's plenty of space for the 2 of them to get away from each other, although Willow doesn't get the whole 'personal space' thing and always wants to get as close as possible to Sammy, much to her disgust. Sammy did let her sleep on the same perch the other day, which is a big step forward. Was funny to watch though as Willow kept waiting till Sammy closed her eyes and then edging closer. When Sammy opened her eye's, Willow would stop, look away, pretending she wasn't doing anything, until Sammy stopped watching, she'd then start moving closer again. Eventually Sammy would catch her moving, give a screech, hiss and a peck until Willow moved back to where she started. Sammy'd give her the evil eye for a while and then settle down again but as soon as her eye's closed Willow would start edging closer again. I watched this go on for over an hour until they eventually reached a compromise and slept about 4" apart. :lol:
> 
> I've been shutting them in the cage over night and letting them out again at 9am. In the old cage Sammy would have gone nuts being shut in and would have been out before I'd finished opening the door, but in the new cage it can be half an hour or more before she comes out when the door's opened. Tomorrow is going to be the real test though as I'm going to the homoeopathic hospital first thing and won't be back until after 3pm so they will both be shut in the cage till then. This will be the 1st time they've been left in the cage during the day as I'm pretty much house bound and rarely go out. I know that I'll come back to some dirty looks from Sammy, but fingers crossed she'll get over it quickly and it will not put her off being shut in the cage again.


Haha Willow is like Echo and Sammy is like Smokey then  I'll have to find the link for that cage again, hopefully i can get it soon. Although i haven't checked my lotto numbers tonight, so u never know haha!


----------



## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

Lol! Is a Echo being a wittle stinker? ( sorry! I can't help myself xD I baby-talk to most animals.)

I've read a little about night frights but just how severe can they be? Are there any ways to prevent them?


----------



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

Yes, Echo is being a little stinker lol. She's very much the clumsy baby and seems to stomp around like a baby elephant when she's climbing around!

Night frights can be bad if they catch their feathers on something. Smokey isn't too jumpy though. If Echo gets a night fright she goes to the bottom of her cage, spreads her wings out bat-bird style and stalks around a little til she calms down.

Actually, i think i'll cover them up for a little bit to see how they do before i go to bed. Chances are that they're just going to tuck themselves in for the night.


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Glad rearranging the cage is working...if Smokey hasn't been with another bird for a while he may not understand what Echo is asking of him. Of course, he also could be very selfish and demand scritches but not give them (Chicken and Pebbles used to do scritch-standoffs but Chicken always ended up getting the scritches never giving).


----------



## hysteriauk (Jun 24, 2012)

glad it is working out


----------



## Hels (Oct 31, 2012)

My two cents worth - Jasper and Coco do not get along. They fight over everything. However, I have a big flight cage and put them both in together during the day and they're fine. I keep them separated at night in their little sleeping cages. All good


----------



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

roxy culver said:


> Glad rearranging the cage is working...if Smokey hasn't been with another bird for a while he may not understand what Echo is asking of him. Of course, he also could be very selfish and demand scritches but not give them (Chicken and Pebbles used to do scritch-standoffs but Chicken always ended up getting the scritches never giving).


Yeah i thought that about Smokey too, he's been on his own for 6 years and the only physical contact he's had has been with me. I felt kind of sorry for Echo, she bowed her head and when she didn't get a reaction she shuffled over towards him, still didn't get a reaction so she kept shuffling with her head bowed til she was pretty much nudging Smokey and he got annoyed >.< I think i could end up with some scritch stand offs too! I know Smokey wants scritches because he "asked" his bell for them all the time, he just didn't like them from me 

All good this morning, i came in and they both happily did the "morning" shuffle lol. Now Smokey's warming up for his morning sing song and Echo is still exploring all the toys and having a play. I'm sure this bird is scared of nothing new!

I put two food bowls next to each other. This way, Smokey still gets his own dish but Echo can eat beside him without fighting.

I'll let them out as soon as i get back from my docs appointment just after 9.

Hels - that's the thing, they do actually get along, its just that Smokey was really territorial over his cage and Echo wanted to be with him all the time. Splitting them into their separate cages at night was getting to be a real battle! Some rearrangement and an extra food bowl seems to have gone down well though  It's still only a temporary arrangement til i get their bigger cage


----------

