# And then there where 3



## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

This morning when I went to make sure there was enough fresh food for daddy Drago not to go bananas about, I took a peak in the box and discovered that UNO,Deuce and Tray now have a sibling .( you should hear Drago chirping/ talking to all his family while inside the nest box.) So one left to go, but for now we are thinking to call this one just Q. I mean Quarto is not only a long name but some what hard to pronounce. LMAO So Uno , Deuce, Tray, and now "Q". Maybe we need one more sequential name but I'll let you know in the next couple of days. 

I also will try to snap a picture now and if No. 4 comes along. Drago is already pacing frantically awaiting for fresh food to feed his growing BROOD ( no mater how much or varied I offer) But I must admit I am a bit apprehensive too considering hand feeding 3-4 crying chicks and that could start in just a couple of weeks or less. But I am truly thankful for the good results of the hatching. And UNO was really getting Lonely in his cage all by himself. Maybe when they all get as big as Uno we can put then all together. Right now I am trying to find a better place for the second 18X24X 36 community cage. LMAO

BuddyD


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*Best we could do in a rush*

We took all 3 of them out the box when both parents came into the cage at the same time. To my surprise there is a big difference in their development and size at this time so to our eyes it is obvious which was first. second and third. LOL

I say this because when the first 2 where just a day apart it wasn't easy at all. LOL But as the days go on they are showing a lot of developmental differences , even when I KNOW they are all 3 getting feed by their parents and I am not to ready to try to get anything down those tiny little beaks as yet. LOL

But I handed them to marie to snap this group picture and i even took 2 . But one is a bit too bright and the other is almost as hard to make out with them all looking like tiny fluff balls and they all huddle together.

I think I could see a very tiny crack in the No. 4 egg but since I didn't lift it out at the same time it could be a line of dirt. But we shall see in the next day or two.

Sweetie gave me some concern when I found her outside the box. She had deposited a rather Large dark watery dropping and I was hoping i wasn't signs of another Double Clutching. However when I checked the Dropping images and explanations it said this could be signs that she isn't eating . And I suspect that with all her baby sitting chores and giving up what she does eat she could be experiencing some of that . 

But she did stay out for a longtime and I made sure every possible type of food she could want was in the cage. I think I'll try adding some Calcium powder to some of the foods. Is that bad for the chicks? I mean the parents seem to hog on Greens since they where all hatched so I Suppose they do all get a lot of Natural calcium.

But till No. 4 here is the best quick PIC I could get. If you magnife the thumbnail you should be able to see 3 tiny heads the Bald one is No. 3 and the biggest chick in the front is No.1.


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## silverflower (Aug 15, 2009)

So did number 4 hatch? And can you update the pictures?


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*3 out o f4 ain't too bad.*

actually in another message with Srtiel I mentioned that the parents picked the shell opened and it was DIS and the membrane was brownish and seemed to have the air sack on the side instead of the large end. Also when I inspected the DIS it wasn't completely formed . Srtiel seemed to think it either got chilled or devloped a tiny crack which allowed the air sack to distort. I think it was probably the later since I noticed a chalky accumulation on the egg at one inspection which may have been the result of a leak. I'll know better what to look for if there is another time.

I'll post pictures soon of the 3 that did hatch. In the Mutation section I have been discussing the fact that the last chick seems o be a Lutino ( pink eyes, yellow down after 9 days out the shell. The other 2 seem to be some form of gray.

BuddyD


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes...you defintely have a lutino baby ...the one towards the back.

it's too early to tell on the others. Just keep an eye on the flight feathers area of the wing. It it comes in solid gray along the length of edges of the wing they are grey or possibly pearls. if you see light colored skin or pinfeathers or a break on the grey along the length of the wing edge then they will be pieds.


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## viv (Aug 21, 2009)

Buddy im am waiting just like u for my little ones to hatch mum and dad have moved one egg away from the rest of the clutch any day fingers crossed.I would just like to thank you as i was researching and i came apon your blog and decided to join.
Thank you


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*Glad if I helped BUT*

Viv I don't have any BLOG. I am being taught a lot that I either forgot or still have to learn and the information you find in my many questions here on Tiel talk are from the numerous much more experienced and knowledgeable breeders like Suzanne Russo ( Srtiel) so just browse around and you will find a lot more information that I am still absorbing.

However as for the moving the one egg asides I think you may have seen Srtiel tell me that that may just be the parents allowing the egg to cool just before it pips . It sure happened that way for me when I didn't understand the separation so it may be soon real soon.

BuddyD


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## silverflower (Aug 15, 2009)

Sorry I didn't even realize that that was you in the other post! And SRtiels you have a keen eye, I didn't even realize that baby had red eyes until you mentioned it and I looked back at it. So, you do have a lutino! YAY!!! I would love to see more pictures.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Silverflower...don't feel bad, I totally missed it too, and when reading his other post the descroption was of a lutino baby. Then I read this post, looked at the pix...head smack...Duh


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*I have pics but*

Susanne I have some very good pics of all the family ( except Drago) But I put them in a Photoalbum that is too big to post on TalkCockatiels . So I am going to try to send them to everyone agian if I can alter them. Only I am not sure if I can do that. The big problem is if I can't, I some how removed some of them from my camera's disk. So Hopefully this will work. LMAO I know even less about how to use a computer than I do tiels. BTW maybe you could send VIV a PM since she thinks all my tips are from me and seems to need some real Expert advise.

BuddyD










This file is 1.09MB instead of 19.5 KB so if it doesn't transmitt can anyone tell me how to change it?


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## silverflower (Aug 15, 2009)

srtiels - LOL, good then it wasn't just me.

I'm sorry I can't help you with the picture stuff, I had a digital camera, but it is really crappy (or I'm sorry, old). I think I am the last person on earth who still developes film, LOL  I can't wait to see them though.


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*OK! I guess Ineed to start over*

I actually have found the listing of the images I want to send here in the JPG form on my Computer . However I am not sure they will still transfer. But I amgoing to have to send them in two batches ( at least. Since there are more then the max number of images-5)

Wish me luck . and I hope this was worth the wait? BTW I am growing concerned about Q. Q seems more frail than the other 2 and i am supplimenting Q's feeding even more than the others and the parents seem to feed all of them . Only Q doesn't seem as strong ( Headnot errect) and feathers coming in slower) I guess that could lead to being deprived against the other two/?Is ther any lack of strength in Pink eyed Lutinos?

BUDDYD


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*Addendum to pictures and explanations*

The first 2 images are of Sweeties back and chest per Susanne's request for identification of mutation. The next is more of the same only with all the chicks in the nest. Then the Chick in the bowl is Deuce,the next is Tray .

And these additions are of Q alone and inmy hand( not too clear but eye color is) and finally UNO as he is Now.

All where taken on 8/21 which would mean Deuce was 13 days old, Tray was 12 days old and Q was 10 days old. And UNO was about 113 days (3 3/4 months) old.

I also am finding the Embrace to need more water to thiit out than the Exact did. I am trying to keep it thin enough to make swallowing easy for Q and hydartio as well . However the 3 chicks seem to resist the syringe more than UNO did and don't seem to want as much formula as Uno did either. Maybe the parents are doing a better job then I relize?

Also I am beginning to think Tray maybe Pied due to some Pin feathers I am seeing ( Whites on wings and yellow on head along with a lot of Gray ) but I know that can change. Also does the foot color have any indictions as the eys? Notice thta Uno's feet are dark as are Deuces and some what are Drago's, and Trays are light pink as are Q's and maybe Sweeties'?

Also I have noticed that while UNO is growing more gary ( and it is very early) he does have a lot more Gray aroun his head and though not to visible there is some white around the Orage cheek patches. Not at all like Drago ever was ( he had white spots on the back and rear of his head , which are still there slightly as ther are on UNO also. Could this be indication od PIED genes?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...sweetie is a cinnamon and a beauty. There is a lutino, and you have a lightly pied baby (light colored flight feathers)...so both parents are split to pied. It looks like they are being plucked like UNo was. With as little as young as they are this could be from boredom of a parent spending time in the nestbox. First they over preen the down, and then overpreen and pluck emerging pin feathers.


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*About the Plucking*

Susanne I was concerned about that when i saw blood feather scaps only i also noticed tiny blood spots on the Box walls and when i look inside thechicks have a tendancy to huddle close to the walls . Also that is wher the vast majority of the baby pop is acumulateing ( all along the walls) so I was assumeing the chicks might be rubbing / stumbbling against the wooden walls . Couldn't that cause a sort of abrasive action on their tiny fether sprots?

But as for the over preening idea , at night and even other times both parents do stay in the box with all 3 chicks , which surely forces them against the walls or worse, since they are very seldom dirty but do have those sore spots. 
So what is the next option since Drago and Sweetie do feed them better and more often than I can.

Also what about the frailness of the Lutino chick ? Is that just fro being last and smaller than it's siblings and not maybe getting served as much as it's bigger siblings can demand?

I have started pulling them ALl about 3 times a day starting with the Lutino. Howevr even it's crop is much smaller than it's bigger brothers so Mom and dad have to fill them more than Q and Q's supply doesn't last as long either.

Is 3 times a day enough? And all of them resist the Syringe a lot.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...from your pix their poop looks normal. And babies will scoot to the edge of the nestbox and poop. The missing pinfeathers are from plucking, not rubbing. yes...the little lutino can use some supplemental feedings. I would also suggest adding 1/4 tsp. of plain yogurt to each feeding when you mix the formula. And I noticed your other posting...yes the Embrace when mixed up is a thinner consistancy than the Exact. If you do it too thick then it contributes to dehydration (I learned that the hard way when I first used it and called the mfg, and they said to thin it down)


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*Hopefully I don't seem to disagree nor to be monoplizeing the forum*

Susanne I certainly hope I don't seem to be asking for advise and then seem to be telling you I have a better idea. BECAUSE I DON"T.

Also since I keep asking more and more open ended and never ending questions , that i am not seen as monopolizing this forum. I just need a lot of help that i hope is also helpful to others.

That said since the chicks are being plucked and I don't see any hostile attitudes from either parent , and since my best guess might be that in an effort to clean of any spilled feedings or other dirt the parents are vigorously preening the chicks to the point they remove dirty feathers along with any dirt/food? I must admit when I hand feed I use a paper towel and even a damp one to clean up after but the formula is very fine and maybe I am what is being PREENED so much for? All 3 shake their heads often when hand feeding and formula doesn't always go just in their beaks.LMAO I often have to change shirts afterwards. 
What can be done to relieve this from happening . Or any Plucking for that matter since the oldest isn't yet 2 weeks old and I don't have an artificial brooder . Also how often should supplemental feedings be done for not just the Lutino but all the chicks?

And would Vanilla Yogurt work in place of plain . We have that but No Plain. LOL or is there anything else that would help being added?


BUDDY

MANY thanks for all the help and advise as well as patience from everyone, especially Susanne.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I don't think the vanilla will bother them.

As to the supplemental feedings. if there is plenty of food in the crop, and the crop does not feel hard like a bean bag them you can skip a feeding. When hard packed a dilute formula to get fluids in is very helpful. If the crop is mostly empty, but you see the parents eating to feed the babies, assist feed a 1/2 feeding so that the baby is still hungry and the parents will feed rather than let you do the work. The best time to assist is at night to make sure they have a full crop to carry them during the night. In other words its a play it by ear/see to see if they need any assitance or not.

As to the plucking I have no answers. I used to keep salt wheels (the reddish brown ones for hamsters, small animals) hung in my cages and flights. This cut down on plucking becuase man time plucking can be due to a salt defeciency, and salt is present in blood in minute amounts.


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