# Need help now!!



## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME ASAP. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.
I just came out from a nap with my kids to find the most awful thing ever. Some how both my babies we out of the nest box and fallen straight into the cup of water under it. The smallest baby was dead by the time I found it and the oldest is barley hanging on. He is ice cold shivering and skin is almost white and the parents wont go near it.
I tried taking him out and wrapping him up in a towel with a heating pad around him. He warmed up a lil but is still cold and he cant keep his eyes open. I noticed there is now a air bubble in the crop. The crop is full with food though, it looks like the parents had just fed them.
The only thing I can think is that they have started moving around and I had too much bedding in there and they got to close to the hole. Its all my fault. Someone please help me try to save my baby. WHAT DO I DO?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

If you have rubber gloves or can get some, you can fill one up with warm water and let the baby rest between the fingers of the glove. That should help with heat. I'm not a breeder so I don't know what to do about the crop, but someone who knows will be along soon. 

Since theres a risk of aspiration from the water, you may want to have the baby seen by a vet.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

enigma731 said:


> If you have rubber gloves or can get some, you can fill one up with warm water and let the baby rest between the fingers of the glove. That should help with heat. I'm not a breeder so I don't know what to do about the crop, but someone who knows will be along soon.
> 
> Since theres a risk of aspiration from the water, you may want to have the baby seen by a vet.


I don't have any rubber gloves and I want to rush him to the vets but my husband is at work 2.5 hours away and my nabor isnt home and I don't drive and my vets close in 15 minutes and the emergancy vet is an hour away from me. 

What about a water bottle would that work?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

A water bottle is OK. Another way to warm up a baby in an emergency is to stick it in your bra to get some skin contact for direct steady heat. Make sure the baby is able to breathe. Human skin temperature is several degrees cooler than a bird's body temperature but it's warm enough, and your body temp won't overheat the baby and it won't cool down like a water bottle would.

If your vet is still open, you can call them and ask for additional advice. Does the baby's breathing sound OK or does he sound like he has water in his lungs?

Since he got chilled, he might not be able to digest the food that's already in his crop. After you've warmed him up, wait a while to see if he digests it. If he doesn't, you will need to flush the crop. There's info on that at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=32584


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

I warmed him up as much as I could with the heating pad and his down fuzz is dry and hes a lil warmer now but not much but still very very weak, he cant open his eyes or hold his head up anymore like he had been. He's 8 days old. I placed him back in the box and put the heating pad over the top of the box with the lid open and the dad went in and i peeked and hes just sitting there next to him but not touching him. Is the heating pad there a good idea or not or should I take him out of the box and try to handle him and warm him up?


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Is there anything I can do about the air in the crop? Should I be worried about it as much as I am rate now?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

The heating pad will work fine, just make sure its not hot enough to burn him. Try blowing into his mouth (in case he did inhale any water) and see if you can listen to his breathing. The bubble in the crop, is it an air bubble or water bubble? An air bubble is normal and can easily be massaged out, but if the baby drank any of the water I'm not sure how that would affect it.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If you can feed him a little bit of pedialyte it might help restore his energy level. You probably don't have immediate access to pedialyte but there are simple homemade recipes using ordinary kitchen ingredients at http://birdboard.com/forum/topic/8602093-rehydration-electrolytes/

I updated my previous post a couple of times, so please take another look at that to see if there's anything on it that you haven't seen before.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

The heating pad is old and the stupid thing wont work past low so I dont think it would get too hot over him. 
Im sure he got water in his mouth. Im just not sure how much. He was on top of his sibling rolling in the water trying to keep his head up when I found them. 
I tried massaging the crop earlier because I remembered someone on her talking about it but it didnt seem to work. 
Dad has now come back out of the box. Should I just take him out and try to keep him warm between me and the heating pad or leave him and the heating pad on top and see if dad or mom will go back in? Seems like dad is the more caring one of the couple.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I would keep him in your shirt/bra until he perks back up. He needs supplemental heat right now and if the parent birds aren't giving it to him you need to keep him warm.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Do you have a small thermometer that you can put inside the nestbox to check the temperature? Ideally the baby should be at a temperature close to 106 degrees, that's typical body temperature for birds. If the nestbox temperature is close to that you can leave him inside. Otherwise bring him out and keep him as close to that temperature as you can without overheating him. Human body temperature will serve the purpose if that's the most effective way to deliver warmth.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

tielfan said:


> Do you have a small thermometer that you can put inside the nestbox to check the temperature? Ideally the baby should be at a temperature close to 106 degrees, that's typical body temperature for birds. If the nestbox temperature is close to that you can leave him inside. Otherwise bring him out and keep him as close to that temperature as you can without overheating him. Human body temperature will serve the purpose if that's the most effective way to deliver warmth.


I have a thermometer but its the kind that goes under your tounge. Would it work by putting it under his wing or something?
I was going to do the homemade pedialyte but i am missing the baking soda but my husband just called to check on us and I asked him to stop and get some plain pedialyte at the store. Anything else that I might need while hes there?


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

I just tried it by putting it under his wing and it said 102.8 He has warmed up but still very weak and hes making a weird sound almost like a hickup.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Tell him to get some baking soda if he has trouble finding the pedialyte.

You might want to get a bit of plain oatmeal and a jar of baby food vegetables (I recommend peas) in case you get into a situation where you have to try and handfeed the baby. You will need real handfeeding formula in a long term situation, but the grocery store won't have that and warm mushy human food will serve in a pinch.

You could try setting the baby on top of the thermometer to check his temperature. Have him on top of a towel or something so his body heat will be trapped in the area (sort of like sticking the thermometer under your tongue).


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Is the sound related to his breathing or does it seem to have some other cause?


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

tielfan said:


> Tell him to get some baking soda if he has trouble finding the pedialyte.
> 
> You might want to get a bit of plain oatmeal and a jar of baby food vegetables (I recommend peas) in case you get into a situation where you have to try and handfeed the baby. You will need real handfeeding formula in a long term situation, but the grocery store won't have that and warm mushy human food will serve in a pinch.
> 
> You could try setting the baby on top of the thermometer to check his temperature. Have him on top of a towel or something so his body heat will be trapped in the area (sort of like sticking the thermometer under your tongue).


I DO HAVE formula for the babies. I'm all ready to hand feed but I planned on waiting a lil longer to pull the babies, I never imagined this would happen so if I need to feed him I can no problem, its just that his crop is full rate now, the parents must had just fed him before this happened.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Good, then you're prepared for that. Would you want your husband to pick up a better heating pad? The problem with the newer ones though is that they're usually designed to turn off automatically after a while which is not desirable in this situation.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

One of you said I might have to empty the crop of the food because the water... If so how long should I wait if it doesnt start to empty on its own?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I thought of something else... applesauce is sometimes used to help with digestion. So is srtiels' spice remedy, which contains garlic powder, cinnamon, and ginger. If you end up having to do a crop flush, you'll need alka seltzer or baking soda for that.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The water probably won't do any harm since it's the same water the parents have been giving to the babies. But chicks that get chilled can have trouble getting their digestion restarted. I'm going to srtiels website now to look for info on identifying slow crop and I'll be back soon with the results.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

I just went to take him out and the dad was in there feeding him again which concerns me if his crops already full. Should I leave him with dad or take him out and put in a broader?


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## RedQueen (Feb 21, 2012)

Sorry to hear that this happened. I agree that you should put the baby in you shirt to keep it as close to your body heat as you can, maybe help by keeping your hand lightly around it too, bacuse direct contact to your skin will warm it and keep it warm better than the heating pad above the box, and it also garauntees you won't overheat the baby because your body temp is lower than a bird's. I'm no expert but this seems like the best way to get the baby warm fast and safe.
Good luck! Hope the baby recovers.

Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk 2


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If the parents are feeding him you won't be able to tell whether he's digesting his food or not. I wasn't able to find much information on the exact timeline for declaring it to be slow crop. But I did find one website that said it's slow crop if a baby still has food in its crop after not being fed for 6 hours, and that sounds reasonable to me. If this was my baby I'd take him out for observation and keep him warm, then put him back with the parents if I see that his crop is getting smaller.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Has his energy level started to improve at all? Once he starts to perk up you'll have to do something about the nestbox so he can't fall out again. I don't know whether you're using a conventional manufactured nestbox or a homemade nestbox. But in either case, the bottom of the doorway should be about 5 inches above the bare floor. This lets you have 2 to 3 inches of bedding in the box and also 2 to 3 inches of bare wall above the bedding. This height lets the parents get in and out easily but is too high for the babies to manage until they're ready to fledge.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

tielfan said:


> Has his energy level started to improve at all? Once he starts to perk up you'll have to do something about the nestbox so he can't fall out again. I don't know whether you're using a conventional manufactured nestbox or a homemade nestbox. But in either case, the bottom of the doorway should be about 5 inches above the bare floor. This lets you have 2 to 3 inches of bedding in the box and also 2 to 3 inches of bare wall above the bedding. This height lets the parents get in and out easily but is too high for the babies to manage until they're ready to fledge.


It looked like he was responding to the dad and lifting his head up a lil for feeding. 

The nest box was homemade that the breeder I got them from made. Its huge and I thought there was enough space between the shavings and the hole and they had been on the other side of the box, its really long. Ill attach a photo. You can see the bottom of the hole is where the perch for them to sit on is sticking out of the box.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I haven't read thru your entire posting, but did notice that you are in Maine.

Here is Ruths contact info: http://www.cockatiels.org/main/membership-information/membership-contact-info/state-coordinators-2/?cn-cat=30

if she is close to you she would be a great person to explain what happened, look at the baby, and help it.

My first thoughts are if you have any honey or Karo syrup to mix a little in warm water and feed the baby a drop. if you have any Vitamin B Complex tablets you can shave off some to make a powder, put it in a little water and feed a drop. BOTH will give enery, and the B-complex will help with the paleness.

But try to get ahold of Ruth if you can. She is awesome...


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm not good at judging length but that looks closer to the bottom than a conventional nestbox door. If someone in the family is handy with tools they might be able to block the old door and cut a new one higher up. Otherwise you'd be better off to get a different nestbox to replace the old one.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

srtiels said:


> I haven't read thru your entire posting, but did notice that you are in Maine.
> 
> Here is Ruths contact info: http://www.cockatiels.org/main/membership-information/membership-contact-info/state-coordinators-2/?cn-cat=30
> 
> ...


I know Ruth and tried to get a hole of her but shes not online and shes a 2 hour drive from me  She lives in the south of maine and I live up north.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

tielfan said:


> I'm not good at judging length but that looks closer to the bottom than a conventional nestbox door. If someone in the family is handy with tools they might be able to block the old door and cut a new one higher up. Otherwise you'd be better off to get a different nestbox to replace the old one.


I will have my hubby take a look when he gets here if he ever does. Seems like the clocks not moving.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

srtiels said:


> I haven't read thru your entire posting, but did notice that you are in Maine.
> 
> Here is Ruths contact info: http://www.cockatiels.org/main/membership-information/membership-contact-info/state-coordinators-2/?cn-cat=30
> 
> ...


I have her email and her online messengers and I had her phone number saved but can't find it for the life of me because I NEED it. She's usually always online, this is just my luck.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Here phone # is in the link./...try and phone her. Quite possibly if she is not too far from you maybe she can come and look at the babies. Tell her Susanne Russo suggested you contact her.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Thank you im going to call her now. Ill be back.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Heres her #: 

Home Phone: (207) 344-8640


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I believe she also has Skype. I have found that if both people have a camera cell phone or tablet they can video chat and you can show her exactly what is going on.

i have Skype, but I have not advanced or played with it enough to do the video chat.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If Ruth or Susanne contradicts anything I said, listen to them not me. They're experts and I was winging it.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Ruth is not home.. I called 3 times and left a message.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

tielfan said:


> If Ruth or Susanne contradicts anything I said, listen to them not me. They're experts and I was winging it.


Tielfan you have been a great help and so has everyone else. Don't under estimate your self.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Thanks, I do what I can. But no doubt about it, Susanne knows a lot more than I do and Ruth probably does too.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Teilfan, *ALL* the advice was GREAT!!!


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## RedQueen (Feb 21, 2012)

How is the baby doing? Are you warming him in your shirt? Any change in his condition or what about his body temp?

Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk 2


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

RedQueen said:


> How is the baby doing? Are you warming him in your shirt? Any change in his condition or what about his body temp?
> 
> Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk 2


He is still in the nest box with the heat pad on top and he seems to be a lil more lively and his skin has gone from white to a pale pink but still not opening his eyes much. He felt warmer a minute ago when I touched him. 
After I just checked on him dad went back in with him. Im going back and forth if I should leave him in there if they are going in with him or if should take him out where he seems to be warming up. I'm just worried if the crop will empty and the dad isnt helping because he keeps trying to feed him more even know he looks so full.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

For right now heat is the main priority more than anything else. The chilling was *was a major stress* to the body. it is this stress that can trigger a secondary yeast overgrowth. if it does not disturb the parents you can place paper towels under the baby to see if it is pooping. if pooping then there is digestion. If you are assist feeding sprinkle a quick dash of Garlic Powder into the formula for a couple feeding. OR if you don't have formula, then a little garlic powder in water, and carefully feed a drop or two.

OK....here is a collage that shows healthy and unhealthy looking crops. Ruths Startburt is the model in the center


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

srtiels what do you think?


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

I will take a picture of the baby then put the paper towel down. I have the hand feeding formula ready to go if needed. I planned on pulling them just not yet. I was trying to wait until after my son went in for surgery on Monday but I can pull him if needed.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I would give the baby some time. It had a major shock to it's system and can be lethagic for a few hours. heat is the priority and keep the heating pad there until the baby is more active. The dad is trying to feed it to help get stuff moving in the crop. Keep an eye on the crop that it does no get oversized, and the food going up the neck to the throat.....which could be an indication that the digestive tract is not moving.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes...if you can post some pix's that would be great...


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Heres some pictures, the flash to the camera made him open his eyes up some.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

more pics.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Hubby just got home with the pedialyte, should I give it to him and if so how much?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

The crop and skin color look great!. Was the crop this big before daddy fed it? if not it could be the size that is 'weighy' to the chick right now. AND, if you hold the baby keep your hand cupped around the crop. Since the crop is sticking out from the body, it can get chilled, and if chilled it chills the body of the chick. And the chick has to use body reserves to warm the contents of the crop. You can put some warm water in a small jar or small plain colored balloon for the baby to rest the crop against for warmth. Just remove and replace it when it gets chilled.

it looks like you have a pretty Whiteface Lutino baby


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

In looking at the crop, does it feel cold or room temperature. If cold that could be why the baby is standing the way it is.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

The crop was that big when I found it in the water cup but it had a air bubble thing on the side on the top of the crop but i massaged it a lil and then dad fed it again and finished filling it up and now I dont see the air bubble.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

The crop isnt cold but isnt hot and he just pooped on the paper towel.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

sweetnsour924 said:


> Hubby just got home with the pedialyte, should I give it to him and if so how much?


---------------------------

Ok...what you can do is gently press the crop between your fingertips. When you remove your fingertips the skin should spring back and the crop looking rounded. If your fingertips leave an indentation in the crop for several seconds this is a sign that there is not enough fluids in the crop contents. if so, then give a little pedialyte with a drop of honey and a quick dask of garlic powder. *carefully* feed a few drops, check the crop between you fingertips....if there is still dents after you remove your fingertips then give a little more fluids. You can gently massage the crop to work the fluid into the crop contents. During all of this keep the baby cupped in your hand to help keep the crop warm.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Good....if the baby pooped then you have movement in the digestive tract....Yay!


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Ok, I just gave him some pedialyte. I did what you said and my thumb print stayed so I gave it to him and then the air bubble came back but i burped him and it came out but then gave him more pedialyte and had to do it again. He seems to be doing so much better.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Pedialyte helps restore the electrolyte balance in the body. If can be a major help with birds that have been weakened by some kind of shock to the system like chilling, vomiting or blood loss.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm sorry that I didn't think of this earlier. Try warming up the other baby too. Sometimes chilled chicks appear to be dead when they really aren't. It's possible that it isn't too late.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

tielfan said:


> I'm sorry that I didn't think of this earlier. Try warming up the other baby too. Sometimes chilled chicks appear to be dead when they really aren't. It's possible that it isn't too late.


He was dead for sure when I found him, he was under the water 100% and there was no heart beat. His body was the only thing that saved this baby, I hope he makes it. If he does he will be here with me for sure the rest of his life.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm sorry that you lost the other baby. If there was any chance that he might have survived it would have been worth a try.

The surviving baby will be more susceptible to infections for a while because of the shock that he's had, so you'll need to monitor him closely. It'll be good to have the parents feeding him because they'll pass along their own antibodies along with their "home cooking". If he inhaled any of the water there's a risk of developing aspiration pneumonia, so if his breathing sounds funny it would be a good idea to call your vet and ask whether you should give him antibiotics as a precaution. It's my understanding that antibiotics are standard treatment when a baby has aspirated on handfeeding formula and survived.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

I am keeping a very close eye on him. The parents are in with him now.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Heres the update for this morning.
I got up and he is still alive and warm and the parents are with him in the nest. The crop has less food in it then last night before I went to bed. I dont know if they fed him again or not, if its new food or old but I did feel the crop and my finger indent was still there so I gave him some more pedialyte and massaged his crop until my finger print no longer stayed. But I noticed a red mark on each side of his crop. I dont know if this is on the out side of his skin that may have happened during the fall or in the bowl while trying to get out or if its the inside of his crop. Please look at the photos and let me know what you think. Thank you all for your help.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The red mark looks like a bruise to me but I am definitely not an expert on crop issues so it could be something else. Could it be from you massaging the crop? srtiels is the best person to advise on this.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

tielfan said:


> The red mark looks like a bruise to me but I am definitely not an expert on crop issues so it could be something else. Could it be from you massaging the crop? srtiels is the best person to advise on this.


I looked him over and to me it looks like theres a couple marks like from nails. Im thinking maybe they are from the other baby when they were fighting to get out of the water dish? Or maybe its bruise and a scratch? I hope I didnt do it when massaging him  
Im hoping its not infection or yeast building up. How do I tell??
I've had the worst luck with this clutch. I've NEVER had problems like this before.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Yeast would be white and opaque...not a red mark. Its most likely a bruise or scratch from the other baby's nails as they were flailing in the dish. I would keep an eye on it but as long as its not punctured I think it should heal fine.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Our sticky on development issues at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27514 has links to a lot of articles on srtiels' website. She has a lot of excellent pictures of crop problems with her articles and also in her photo album starting at http://s525.photobucket.com/albums/cc331/Mousebirds-and-more/Other birds/#!cpZZ11QQtppZZ24 You could look through those seeing if there's anything that looks like the red marks on your baby.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

roxy culver said:


> Yeast would be white and opaque...not a red mark. Its most likely a bruise or scratch from the other baby's nails as they were flailing in the dish. I would keep an eye on it but as long as its not punctured I think it should heal fine.


Thank god, I hope your right. I hope he makes it, If he does he will be staying here with me the rest of his life. 
I called the vet but they said theres not much more they can do then I have at this point. That I need to keep him warm, hydrated and make sure hes being fed and the food is digesting. That if I see any sign of infection to bring him in but they didnt explain too well on the signs of infection.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

tielfan said:


> Our sticky on development issues at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27514 has links to a lot of articles on srtiels' website. She has a lot of excellent pictures of crop problems with her articles and also in her photo album starting at http://s525.photobucket.com/albums/cc331/Mousebirds-and-more/Other birds/#!cpZZ11QQtppZZ24 You could look through those seeing if there's anything that looks like the red marks on your baby.


I tried looking at srtiels photos but they are only coming up really tiny for me and I can't really see them.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I don't know what's causing the viewing problem or how to solve it. Most of her pics are pretty big, and if you click on the thumbnail you should be able to get a bigger view. 

I scrolled through the relevant pictures and it looks like the red marks are not a symptom of crop problems. Most of the babies in those pics didn't have any red marks. There were a couple of babies with overstretched crops that did have some red marks but I think this was probably related to the stretched skin and not to the internal problems that were going on.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Thank you.


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## andreanne1422 (Jul 27, 2009)

Just wanted to let you know that I've been following your post and that I'm praying for your little baby. I hope me makes it!!! It sounds like you're doing everything you possibly can, you're a very good bird parent this baby is SO lucky to have you!


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

andreanne1422 said:


> Just wanted to let you know that I've been following your post and that I'm praying for your little baby. I hope me makes it!!! It sounds like you're doing everything you possibly can, you're a very good bird parent this baby is SO lucky to have you!


Thank you so much and I am the lucky one to have him. I am praying so hard and doing everything I know that I can to save him. If he lives I have desided his name will be Lucky because we both will be lucky. 
Please everyone keep him in your prayers. I wish I could of saved the other baby. It breaks my heart. I should of never went to go lay down for a nap but I was just so tired but I have been up every night with my son whos teething. 
The vet said it sounds like either I did have too much beding and they got to close to the hole and fell out or they were to close to the hole and one or both of the parents were in there and wanted out and may have accidently pushed them out on their way out. Either way I still blame myself and wish I never laid down for that nap. Also needless to say my hubby is fixing the box for me tonight so the hole isnt so big and the water dishes have been removed and the is only one big one on the other side of the cage. The water dishes were set up that way when I got them and I never imagined them falling out into it.
I also just checked the baby again and his crop is empty. The parents are out eating rate now so I will see if they are going to feed him when they are done.


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## nassrah (Feb 27, 2012)

Fingers crossed for your little Lucky.You have been a good Mom to him.All the best X x


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Mom and dad went out of the box to eat some more so I took the chance to check on him. He is nice and warm and the parents fed him and his crop is nice and full and I did the finger thing on the crop and it was not there yay!! 
I hope he's out of the woods for the most part.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

It sounds like he will be just fine.  Please keep us updated.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Also..make sure there is a bowl-shape indention in the middle of the nest. This should reduce the chances of the baby getting knocked out again.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

bjknight93 said:


> Also..make sure there is a bowl-shape indention in the middle of the nest. This should reduce the chances of the baby getting knocked out again.


Like carving it in the wood?


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

No, just make a small bowl in the wood shavings.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

I've tried that but the parents keep moving their eggs and the baby back to the back side of the box by the side wall. I dont know why. I can try again.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

You can make an indent there too...if that's where they like their babies that's fine, the indent is just to keep the babies and eggs all huddled together.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Ok I will the next time they come out.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Ok now Im worried again. I just checked on the baby and the belly looks black and the crop looks blue (I dont have nothing blue in the parents food).
See the photos.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

The intestines look dark which is a sign of dehydration...as to the blue crop, I'm thinking bruising.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Should I give it more pedialyte? My vet is useless to me at this time. They don't specialize in birds and they said the only thing they can do that I'm not already doing is put it to sleep. I don't want to give up on him. I can't find any other real avian vets around here.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Yes, add more pedialyte and see if you can add some of the spice remedy too. I'm not sure what to do about the bruise though, other than to let it heal on its own.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

What's the spice remedy? Also the crop is really full, should I be giving it any when its this full?


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

The spice remedy recipe is on this page, about in the middle of the page:
http://justcockatiels.weebly.com/sour-and-slow-crop-remedies.html

Coconut water is very good for treating dehydration.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Has he pooped on you at all? This would tell us whether he is digesting the food in his crop or whether he has slow crop and its just sitting there.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

I'm not sure if he has or not, he was last night but I only knew that because I put him on paper towels in the box while the parents were out. I just put gave him the pedialyte and spice mix. How long should I wait to give it to him again?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Its best to make sure he's digesting the food first, because if he's not you're just putting new stuff on old stuff and that wont be good either.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

I just put some paper towel back down to see if hes pooping. I'll let you know when I know.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Are you feeding any veggies? this would also cause this coloration in the crop and the intestines. Rather than Pedialyte i would sugges that you get Coconut Water from the grocery store and use it for the fluid to mix the formula for assist feeding. And a little can be added (about 24%) to the parents drinking water. Place a paper towel under the baby and cheek the color of the poop.

An obscure thought....if handfeeding what are you using to handfeed, and how far into the mouth is it going. another cause for this discoloration can be bleeding.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

srtiels said:


> Are you feeding any veggies? this would also cause this coloration in the crop and the intestines. Rather than Pedialyte i would sugges that you get Coconut Water from the grocery store and use it for the fluid to mix the formula for assist feeding. And a little can be added (about 24%) to the parents drinking water. Place a paper towel under the baby and cheek the color of the poop.
> 
> An obscure thought....if handfeeding what are you using to handfeed, and how far into the mouth is it going. another cause for this discoloration can be bleeding.



I will have the hubby pick some coconut water up on his way home from work. 

The baby hasn't pooped yet since I put the paper towel down so I can't tell you what color rate now. I do know it has been green on the shavings.
I am not hand feeding him yet. I have left him in with his parents because they were still feeding him and keeping him warm.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Heres his poop. Alot more watery now.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK....looking at the poop a couple things come to mind. First thought is the green discoloration is radiating from the feces. This could be a result of something the parents fed, OR if the GI tract is moving real slow sometimes the contents would darken due to dehydration. BUT you have plenty of fluids in the droppings....so kinda rules out dehydration. What IS going on is now polyuria, which the baby is passing excess fluids.

Another though is to cheek the babies abdomen. the liver is located under the rib cage. it will look like a dark maroon blob. Quite possibly this might have got bruised during the fall (only speculating) If the green discoloration is not from food it may be bile pigments from the liver. Sometimes this is called Biliverdinuria (you can do a Google search)....but from photos I have seen the discoloration is uniforrn green and to the edges of the wet spot on the paper.

For now, assist feed with Coconut and the spice remedy mentioned in another posting, and and as this passes through the baby see if the dropping look better.

We do have a vet as a member. I can try and see if I can get him to look at your post. He recently moved so I'm not sure if he is setup to get online. Also call Ruth to see if she has suggestions.

((((HUGS))))


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Ok so he's still alive as of rate now. He's warm and his crop is still almost full and has gone from a blue color to a green color. I don't know if he's been fed more over the night or he's having a hard time emptying his crop. 
I just gave him some pedialyte and the spice mix. I couldn't give him coconut water as my husband couldnt find any at the store he went to last night. He is going to try a regular store today as the one he stopped at last night was just a small market and the guy that worked there was kinda clueless I guess, told him he didn't know about coconut water and if they had it it would be with the water but he says he looked up and down the shelfs and couldn't find any lol.
The intestines has gone from the dark black to the green color which is the same color as the crop if you ask me. I will post a new picture taken a few minutes ago before I gave the pedialyte and spice mix, judge for yourself.


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## andreanne1422 (Jul 27, 2009)

How is the little one doing any change? Sorry I can't be of any help about his/her's situation since I'm clueless about that kind of stuff but I'm really hoping that he/she pulls through.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

andreanne1422 said:


> How is the little one doing any change? Sorry I can't be of any help about his/her's situation since I'm clueless about that kind of stuff but I'm really hoping that he/she pulls through.


He seems to be doing ok. I am adding new photos now.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Here are photos today he is 11 days old.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

How do you all think he looks today? I am still kind of worried because it does seem like it takes a while for his crop to empty. I dont know if its that or its that he's the only chick now and the parents are constantly feeding him? 
Im kinda in the worry mode also because tomorrow I leave around 10 am and will not be back until Monday night around 6pm or so because my son is having surgery. My mom will be here during the night with my daughter but shes not a bird expert, the most she can do is tell me if hes alive or dead or if his crop is full or empty.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

I plan on pulling him for hand feeding Tuesday. He will be 2 weeks old.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

He looks very good..and it looks like you've got a lutino there. 

His crop IS emptying because the parents are feeding it and it obviously isn't overflowing. The parents don't let the crop empty between feedings so you won't ever see it without a buldge. 

And the parents are doing a fine job, so if you're only handfeeding because of the complications it seems unneccessary to me.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

bjknight93 said:


> He looks very good..and it looks like you've got a lutino there.
> 
> His crop IS emptying because the parents are feeding it and it obviously isn't overflowing. The parents don't let the crop empty between feedings so you won't ever see it without a buldge.
> 
> And the parents are doing a fine job, so if you're only handfeeding because of the complications it seems unneccessary to me.



I planned on pulling the babies at 3 weeks of age for hand feeding as I have done in the past but I thought this time I may put him at 2 weeks so I can keep a better eye on him but we shall see what comes of this coming week.

I don't know why I keep saying he. I believe he is really a she. Alot of you guys told me on here that any pearls or wf lutinos I get will be female.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If the mother is not lutino the baby is female. If mom IS lutino the baby could be either sex.

If this was my baby I wouldn't pull it early. Being taken away from mom and dad and placed in a new environment is stressful. Parent feeding is healthier than formula feeding since the parents contribute their own digestive juices and antibodies to the mix, and complications like slow crop and yeast infection are MUCH less common with parent feeding. You can pull the baby at 3 weeks if you want to since he should be pretty well recovered from the accident by then, but it's safer to leave baby with the parents for a few more days.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

tielfan said:


> If the mother is not lutino the baby is female. If mom IS lutino the baby could be either sex.
> 
> If this was my baby I wouldn't pull it early. Being taken away from mom and dad and placed in a new environment is stressful. Parent feeding is healthier than formula feeding since the parents contribute their own digestive juices and antibodies to the mix, and complications like slow crop and yeast infection are MUCH less common with parent feeding. You can pull the baby at 3 weeks if you want to since he should be pretty well recovered from the accident by then, but it's safer to leave baby with the parents for a few more days.


Ok, I will pull her at 3 weeks as planned then. Thanks for the advise. 
Also the dad is Whiteface pearl pied and I believe split to lutino and fallow and mom is a Normal Whiteface and I believe split to pied and fallow. They have produced normal whitefaces, pied whitefaces, whiteface fallows, whiteface fallow pearls, whiteface fallow pearl pieds and whiteface lutinos. Most of their babies are whiteface fallow pearls and whiteface pieds.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Heres a picture of mom and dad. 
I was told on here by a few people that any baby that's visual pearl or visual lutino will be female, whether it's combined with other mutations or not.
Whiteface lutino girls will actually be whiteface lutino pearl, since all daughters of a pearl male will be pearl in addition to any other mutations that they have.
Is this true?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Yep that's correct. So really she's a wf lutino pearl, you just can't see the pearls lol. She's very cute. And I agree with tielfan, leave for til three weeks that way she's a long way away from this first stress so the next one (being pulled) wont cause any secondary issues.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Ok I will, thank you.


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## sangs_becky (Jun 25, 2012)

I was in tears half way through this thread, it makes me feel better and m glad your baby is doing good now . Please do keep updating more often.
Paying for your little one.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

sangs_becky said:


> I was in tears half way through this thread, it makes me feel better and m glad your baby is doing good now . Please do keep updating more often.
> Paying for your little one.


Yeah theres been alot of tears here too. I will keep everyone updated on Lucky. I will be leaving her in the morning and will not be able to post on how shes doing until late Monday night or Tuesday morning. I will be out of town but my mom will be here and she will be keeping a close eye on her for me.


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## RedQueen (Feb 21, 2012)

Glad that the baby is doing better. She's one tough cookie


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## Clair (Jul 31, 2012)

I've been following this thread and would appreciate updates too. I'm so happy that he's doing better. 

I hope your son's surgery goes well.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

RedQueen said:


> Glad that the baby is doing better. She's one tough cookie


Yes she sure has been through alot already and she is a very tough cookie. I just wish I could have saved her sibling too. Every time I look at her it makes me cry.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Clair said:


> I've been following this thread and would appreciate updates too. I'm so happy that he's doing better.
> 
> I hope your son's surgery goes well.


Thank you for caring about my baby everyone and thank you for the good hopes about my son. Please keep both of them in your prayers. Thank you all again and trust me I WILL keep updating. You'll get sick of me lol.


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## nassrah (Feb 27, 2012)

Best of luck for your son s operation.Same for Lucky. She looks lovely and sweet.hope you have a lot of very happy years with her.X x


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Thank you all for thinking about my son and Lucky. Lucky is doing good. Im getting ready to leave and wont be able to post until Monday night or Tuesday. Keep us all in your prayers.


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## nassrah (Feb 27, 2012)

We will Good Luck x x


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Hi guys, its been a long two days and I'm sooo ready for some much needed sleep. First off my son made it through surgery great and I want to thank you all for the thoughts and prayers. Second off I FINALLY got home and Lucky is doing GREAT. Knock on wood. She welcomed me home with a lil surprise, she has a few lil white feathers coming out of her pins . She is warm, her crop is nice and full and it looks like mom and dad is doing a great job. I will post a few photos that I took of her tonight. Thank you all again for keeping her in your thoughts and prayers. I really didn't think she was going to make it but thanks to all your help here seems that WE (yes all of us on here) saved her thank god, once again knock on wood and thank god. I know I'm a lil superstitious so I like to cover my basis. Things haven't gone easy for me in the past year. Seems like just as I get threw one battle another one is in front of me but I will keep my chin up and keep going. 
Enjoy the photos and thanks again.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

P.S. Take a look at her eyes. I love the cherry red and yes they are that bright and red in person not just because of the camera.


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## Clair (Jul 31, 2012)

So happy your son is okay. 

So happy Lucky is doing better. Go Lucky!!! :clap:

I love the second picture with the little hand giving Lucky some love. 

Thanks for the update.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Clair said:


> So happy your son is okay.
> 
> So happy Lucky is doing better. Go Lucky!!! :clap:
> 
> ...


Oh yes, that little hand belongs to my 3 year old daughter. Her father says she didn't fall to far from the tree. She's a lil bird freak like me lol. She loves her bird to death. Our lil Charlie is her best friend. They hang out together in her room all the time and plays and they watch tv together. I'll have to take a picture one day and post it of them watching cartoons.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm glad to see that the little one is doing so great!

I wonder if the parents are plucking her. It can be hard to tell with lutinos since they're so bald anyway, but she has some little red dots around the front end of the body that look like they might be from feather-yanking. Of course it's possible that the marks are part of the awful accident this baby had.

If the parents actually are plucking her, you'll hear her squawk when a parent pulls a feather out. Plucking is sometimes caused by sodium deficiency which can be fixed by giving the parents access to more sodium . Another major cause of plucking is that the parents want to start a new clutch and are trying to make the baby leave the nest. This is most common when the baby is about 3 weeks old and Lucky is younger than that, but since the parents are down to just one baby now they might want to get an early start on their next clutch.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

tielfan said:


> I'm glad to see that the little one is doing so great!
> 
> I wonder if the parents are plucking her. It can be hard to tell with lutinos since they're so bald anyway, but she has some little red dots around the front end of the body that look like they might be from feather-yanking. Of course it's possible that the marks are part of the awful accident this baby had.
> 
> If the parents actually are plucking her, you'll hear her squawk when a parent pulls a feather out. Plucking is sometimes caused by sodium deficiency which can be fixed by giving the parents access to more sodium . Another major cause of plucking is that the parents want to start a new clutch and are trying to make the baby leave the nest. This is most common when the baby is about 3 weeks old and Lucky is younger than that, but since the parents are down to just one baby now they might want to get an early start on their next clutch.



I wondered the same thing too but I can't tell if its from her accident or the parents plucking, I know she had quit a few marks all over her from the accident that I believe was from her siblings nails. As to the last chick yes rate now shes the last chick but the parents are still on 2 good eggs from this clutch. She laid 5 eggs, 2 broke then 1 was no good (still in the nest as of now) and the day after I took the the broken eggs she laid another one and then the 2 days later she laid another and they are both good. The good eggs are due to hatch around the 31st.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Also what can I do to give them more sodium if thats whats needed. Their diet is a 50 50 seed and pellet mix, millet, fresh fruits and veggies and bread, they LOVE bread.


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## sangs_becky (Jun 25, 2012)

I'm so glad that the little one is doing good  i had shared the story to my mom and also asked her to pray for him. I think you should name him lucky


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## lilbear (Aug 2, 2012)

Hope lucky is still doing great, She is a very pretty bird. Can not wait for mine to hatch.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

sangs_becky said:


> I'm so glad that the little one is doing good  i had shared the story to my mom and also asked her to pray for him. I think you should name him lucky


Thank you and yes I have named her Lucky because she's lucky that she survived when her sibling did not sadly and I'm lucky to have her.


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## sangs_becky (Jun 25, 2012)

words can't express how happy I'm for you and lucky  she's a tough baby


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> what can I do to give them more sodium if thats whats needed.


Sodium-rich veggies like chard and celery are good. Or you can provide a small piece of whole-grain bread with salted butter spread on it thinly. Or one of those salt wheels made for rodents.

Shodu goes insane for red chard when she's breeding. It stops her from plucking the babies and also makes her look like a bloodthirsty velociraptor devouring her latest victim:


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

tielfan said:


> Sodium-rich veggies like chard and celery are good. Or you can provide a small piece of whole-grain bread with salted butter spread on it thinly. Or one of those salt wheels made for rodents.
> 
> Shodu goes insane for red chard when she's breeding. It stops her from plucking the babies and also makes her look like a bloodthirsty velociraptor devouring her latest victim:


Ok I will do.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Lucky is doing good this morning. I do believe they are plucking her because I looked her all over yesterday to see every mark on her and this morning when I checked her out she had fresh blood and new marks. Is there anything else I can do other than increasing their sodium?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

You were planning to pull her for handfeeding so you could go ahead and do that. It's a complicated situation trying to figure out what will be most beneficial for Lucky - there are benefits to parent feeding but being plucked and having to regrow the feathers is definitely not beneficial. If it's a sodium problem the plucking should stop immediately when the parents get more sodium, so go ahead and give it to them right away - you probably have bread and butter in the house. If the plucking doesn't stop then it's probably best to pull.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

tielfan said:


> You were planning to pull her for handfeeding so you could go ahead and do that. It's a complicated situation trying to figure out what will be most beneficial for Lucky - there are benefits to parent feeding but being plucked and having to regrow the feathers is definitely not beneficial. If it's a sodium problem the plucking should stop immediately when the parents get more sodium, so go ahead and give it to them right away - you probably have bread and butter in the house. If the plucking doesn't stop then it's probably best to pull.


Ok I will do and when I do pull her what time a day is the best time to do it?


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

I will be pulling her today. I just need to get her stuff set up. I took her out of the box to get a better look after mom and dad went out and they are plucking her bad. See photos.


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## sangs_becky (Jun 25, 2012)

I've read that parents plucking their chicks because of sodium deficiency but in lucky's case i have a feeling that they are doing this because they are going to lay more eggs and might be they feel she would be a hindrance for their upcoming clutch but i 'm not sure if this is true.
Budgies usually hurt their chicks like that when they want to raise another clutch m not sure if it is the same with tiels.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

It is a combination of both a possible nutrient deficiency and wanting to start the next clutch. If they are wanting to start another clutch the plucked pinfeathers are a rich source of sodium and other nutrients that the hen will need and utilize towards egg production in the next clutch.

Here is a collage that shows several sources of sodium. I would try to give several sources....because even if you pull the baby the hen may still be a little deficient, so after the baby is pulled I would still offer several of these items for a week or two.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

As to times to pull, it varies per breeder. In the past I had always pulled babies at midday, after the parents had fed the baby. I let the crop empty or almost empty and start my handfeeding for the night time feeding. In looking at the size of your baby I would suggest that she be on 3 feedings a day.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

srtiels said:


> As to times to pull, it varies per breeder. In the past I had always pulled babies at midday, after the parents had fed the baby. I let the crop empty or almost empty and start my handfeeding for the night time feeding. In looking at the size of your baby I would suggest that she be on 3 feedings a day.


I just pulled her, I let them feed her this morning and now I will wait for her crop to empty and feed her at lunch time. I would rather do one at lunch time and then bed time not just at bed time so I can watch her during the evening and make sure she takes the forumla ok.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Good luck and keep us posted  You can start a new thread about how they are doing and their growth as you handfeed.

also candle the eggs that were in the pix, and if no good then throw them away. if they are no good you do not want bacteria seeping from them and contaminating the bedding if the parents go to nest again.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

srtiels said:


> Good luck and keep us posted  You can start a new thread about how they are doing and their growth as you handfeed.
> 
> also candle the eggs that were in the pix, and if no good then throw them away. if they are no good you do not want bacteria seeping from them and contaminating the bedding if the parents go to nest again.


I will start a new thread. Should I open it in talk or photos? 
As to the eggs they were good and the last time I candled them they were moving and I could see the heart beats. I did notice after looking at the photos that they seemed to have a lil ting color to them. I dont know if thats because they are due to hatch or they are DSI? I just candled them and the viens still look nice and red but I dont see any movement. Should I leave them for now? They are still sitting on them? One was laid on 08/13/12 so it should hatch around 08/31-9/3/12 and the other was laid on 08/15/12 so it should hatch around 09/2-9/5/12 if they are not DSI.


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## Ari (Dec 4, 2020)

sweetnsour924 said:


> Hubby just got home with the pedialyte, should I give it to him and if so how much?


Hey I want to give my bird this but in the back all the bottles say it has zinc witch is poison to birds. Should I still do it how much should I give him I have lovebird


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