# Feathers turning greasy over time



## ccollin13 (May 24, 2013)

My mom's cockatiel Tommy is around seven or eight years old. He's pied and he's always had good, fluffy plumage. But in the last year, his plumage has turned greasy, oily looking, and has gotten darker, and dirty looking. He looks ragged, and his cheek dots are no longer bright colored. 

I've given him a few baths and it doesn't seem to help.

We took him to the avian vet and she didn't think anything was wrong with him, but I'm still concerned and wanted to know if anyone had seen anything like this. Here are some before and after pics:

About a year ago:









About six months ago:









Now:









And you can see how much different he looks compared to my tiel, Ziggy. Tommy is on the left, Ziggy on the right:


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

He might not be getting enough vitamin A in his diet if he's eating largely seeds. Does he get enough pellets? I read that vitamin A is needed for the preen gland.

He might also just need a bath. Has he gotten one recently?


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## vampiric_conure (Jul 8, 2012)

I second the vitamin A thing. There's also the possibility that there's a bacterial infection the vet missed. Other than those two things, I'm at a loss as to what could be the problem **shrugs** Hopefully a cause and solution can be found to his greasy feathers!


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

Oh, he's a beautiful 'tiel, it's a shame he's going through this. Diet can fix a lot of problems though, getting him to eat good quality pellets is a must. Vitamin and mineral supplements are also helpful.


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## ccollin13 (May 24, 2013)

He eats Zupreem Natural cockatiel pellets, and he has ever since we got him (about 5 years ago). That's what I don't get... his diet hasn't changed. He's not a fan of veggies, but he does eat egg pretty frequently. 

Are there certain other foods that help with vitamin A?

Also I'm trying to get my mom to bathe him more often (he hates it) to see if that will help. I did give him a bath last time I was home, and it helped for a little bit but not long.


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## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

Kale is HUGE for Vit A if you can get him to eat that. Any dark green would be too. Dandelions. Eggs. Broccoli. Pumpkin. Broccoli Papaya Mango Peas - all sort of good stuff.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I'm going to lean towards liver issues with this one...that color change is just incredible. A diet of all pellets can cause kidney issues, but I've never heard of it affecting the liver. I would try adding seeds back into his diet, tiels are seed eaters naturally and need them anyways (a vet who tells you otherwise is just trying to sell you their brand of pellets).


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Yeah definitely liver issues. He eats only pellets? That's terrible. Way too much protein. A cockatiel should eat 60% seed, 30% pellets, and 10% veggies. 

Your little guy definitely has liver disease, and your other cockatiel is at risk if he's on the same diet. Please, read our diet information here and change it immediately!

In the meantime, you should go pick up some Alcohol-free Milk Thistle Extract and some Alcohol-free Dandelion Extract. For each 3 oz of water put one drop of each extract. Change the water twice daily to prevent bacterial growth. This will help promote the liver function until the diet change allows it to heal itself. You can also use Alcohol-free Silymarin (Milk Thistle and Dandelion mixed) and put 2 drops per 3 oz of the birds water. Let your other cockatiel drink this as well. This is what I use. My bird has a 6 oz dish of water so she gets 4 drops of Silymarin in her dish.

Please don't ignore this issue or you'll end up with a very ill bird..and liver disease takes a long time to cure.


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## ccollin13 (May 24, 2013)

Thanks for your posts. I suspected something was going on internally, but I was really surprised the vet didn't say anything. She is a highly qualified avian vet and I trust her a great deal, but something is definitely wrong. I'll call them on Monday. It's difficult because this is my mom's bird and not mine, but I'm going to keep pestering my family because I want him to get healthy.

Would nutri-berries be a good supplement to Tommy's diet? Pellets as the main meal, and a two or three nutri-berries a day. I think he'll eat them if we break them up.


My own cockatiel Ziggy eats nutri-berries as his main meal, with veggies and egg too. He won't touch pellets. I thought about trying the Lafeber pellet-berries since they are similar to the nutriberries, but I'm afraid he's just going to pick out the parts he wants to eat and not touch the pellets. Any suggestions?


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

I think you should follow bjknight's post advice. And their advice of 60% seeds, 30% pellets, and 10% veggies. As well as roxy's advice. He shouldn't be having that many pellets it might be contributing to the liver disease.

Nutriberries are nutritionally equivalent to pellets so they are considered pellets usually. And giving more pellets on top of pellets wouldn't be a good idea.... 

I would stop giving him egg right now because that's too much protein on top of all the protein that pellets already give him. If the egg is to make up for something in his diet, I would replace the nutrients found in egg with other foods.

I remember someone posting that pellets are like vitamins. I think you should keep that frame of mind when feeding 'tiels and not overdose them on them. There are a lot of good seed mixes out there.


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

Here is the sticky thread on diet, http://www.talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27479


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Nutriberries are pretty much pellets. You should feed 60% seed, no matter what.


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## ccollin13 (May 24, 2013)

Now I'm really frustrated. Because in the first years we had birds, we did the all-seed thing, because we were uneducated about them. Finally we learned better and switched to pellets because they're more complete than an all-seed diet. We learned about the importance of vet check-ups, and our avian vet has saved our birds from major illness many times, including avian gastric yeast. Which to me proves she knows something. I thought we were doing the right thing. I know tons of stuff about birds, 500% more than the average bird owner who buys a budgie from a pet store, and I feel like I still know nothing.

So now I'm finding out that even pellets are not the correct diet (not 100% anyway) and can lead to the same **** problems as all seed - liver failure! Why are these things marketed as a complete diet if they're only supposed to be 30% or less of the diet?

Heck, Ziggy, the cockatiel I adopted , was eating CEREAL for years, because his previous owner thought that would be "more nutritious than seeds." I changed that immediately to nutri-berries (see more in my post in the Introduction section if you want to know about Ziggy's health problems when I got him). His transformation after change in diet was amazing. And I'm still not doing the right thing? Something could happen to him like is happening to Tommy?

I just hate that there is so much mis-information about birds. SO much.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm frustrated, and I'm sure many of you can identify.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> I just hate that there is so much mis-information about birds. SO much.
> 
> Sorry for the rant, but I'm frustrated, and I'm sure many of you can identify.


It is frustrating, that's why we're here. There is always more to learn about our babies. Vets know a lot, don't get me wrong, but nutrition isn't one of those things that they focus on. They get handed a brochure for whatever pellet they're clinic sells and that's pretty much the extint of it. I'm currently going to vet tech school and the portion on birds always feels like its a side-note, kind of "o btw" type thing. 

If it is a liver issue, it can be reversed. That's the beauty of the liver. Dandelion extract and milk thistle extract would be a great help. Get the nonalcohol containing ones and put the drops in his water. It will help his liver recover from the damage its suffered.


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## urbandecayno5 (Oct 24, 2012)

Too much of a good thing can be Bad

Mine has seed available 24/7, gets vegetables every morning and a few nutriberries(she won't eat pellets)
She also attacks my food

Everyone feeds their birds differently but I think just as long as there's a variety your okay
I would go with what everyone here is saying percentage wise


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

I understand your frustration very well. I researched nutrition information for a straight month when I first got Kiwi. I looked on multiple sites and it was all very confusing because a lot of them contradicted each other. Not knowing a lot about bird nutrition made it hard to know what they should really be eating. So I started to follow the advice that breeders, vets, and everyone here posted. It was also very helpful to see the studies done on pellets because I finally felt like I had a factual answer on them. But I'm still learning about nutrition. The nutrition class I took in college recently helped, I feel like it went mostly to Kiwi. :lol:

I feed Kiwi nutri-berries when I notice he's not eating his pellets as often. But not too many of them. Ziggy's transformation was amazing because he hadn't been getting all his nutrients. Overdosing on some nutrients can have a negative effect on the body, protein is one of them. If it's affecting Tommy yes it could affect Ziggy too. 

Yeah it looks like too many seeds or too many pellets causes it. I think like roxy said many vets don't really take a bird nutrition course.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

cockatiels come from an arid habitat, and their natural diet isnt rich in protein and vitamins. while pellets are good to have in the diet, they are too nutrient rich for arid-native birds like cockatiels, budgies, lovebirds, etc. the over-indulgence of vitamins destroys kidneys and liver. it's just too much of a good thing for cockatiels.

the best diet is variety  pellets are like a vitamin people take, they're meant to fill the gaps we might miss in a varied diet. we would not be able to survive on vitamins alone, we'd develop serious problems too. 

you aren't a bad owner, you are doing what you thought was best, and no one can fault you for that


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I was watching an animal show on TV and they even said that cockatiels should be fed pellets, not seeds. I was so angry. The misinformation on nutrition is kind of astounding. So like meanneyfids said, don't blame yourself. There is a lot of incorrect information out there and it's hard to sort through it all.


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## ccollin13 (May 24, 2013)

Have to take my Ziggy to the vet for his injured wing today. So I'll ask her then for tips on changing the diet to something more balanced. And I'll see what can be done with Tommy too. Poor buddies.

Thanks everyone, will keep you updated.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Most vets think all birds should be on pellet based diets. But for small birds that is not right. Don't be surprised if your vet says all pellets are fine. That's what most vets were taught in school.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> Don't be surprised if your vet says all pellets are fine. That's what most vets were taught in school.


Also probably why the vet thought Tommy looked fine when we can all see something is wrong. 

Here are a couple stickies on diet that we have: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27479 This is the best diet we can come up with for tiels

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=30647 This one recommends a way to introduce new foods to tiels (its for pellets but you can use it for any food) just be careful using this, starving a bird to get it to eat something you want isn't necessarily the way to go.


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## ccollin13 (May 24, 2013)

Took my bird Ziggy in for his wing injury today. He'll be okay, just has severe inflammation in the ... forearm? ... area of the wing. The right wing was worth but apparently he hurt both when he crashed. Got Meloxicam, an anti-inflammatory, to help with the inflammation and pain. He'll be okay, just really grumpy right now with the pain.

So while I was there, I brought up Tommy again, showed her the before and after pictures again. She thought about it more... asked if he had been losing feathers. In that close up pic you can see his head feathers seem a little sparse. I mentioned that when I visited my parents last, I picked up a tail feather that Tommy had molted and it seemed deformed at the shaft, like it hadn't developed fully, it was pinched off at the bottom and still had some of the waxy sheath on it, it looked really strange. Told the vet about that. Also his crest is nowhere near as perky as it should be, it's just kind of limp, the feathers on his body everywhere seem limp.

She did a little research and came back to me... and she thinks it may be PBFD.

Cockatiels have just recently been exhibiting signs of this, she said. She needs to do another exam and obviously the PBFD test. One symptom of PBFD is a lack of dust production... which leaves the feathers looking very dark. ( you can see that in the last picture I posted, he's a very dark grey now, almost black, much more than my Normal Grey, Ziggy). Another is the abnormal feather growth. His tail feather I picked up looked just like this:










He hasn't exhibited other symptoms yet (abnormal beak, abnormal down feathers) so it may not be. But he has enough of the symptoms... going to get the test done.

I'm devastated. I don't know what to do. Obviously I shouldn't panic because I know it's not diagnosed yet, I know it's just an educated guess. But I just want to cry, we have a whole flock of birds including a Moluccan cockatoo and this virus is contagious and fatal and there's no way to cure it. The vet likened it to AIDS.

I questioned and questioned her about diet and liver problems and she said we can do tests for liver but she doesn't think the diet would cause this kind of discoloration especially given the start of feather loss. I'll take him back as soon as I can get an appointment.

I'm trying so hard not to panic or freak out but I wanted to update you guys on what it could be...


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I'm glad you'll be getting the tests done. How often are the birds around each other?


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## ccollin13 (May 24, 2013)

He stays in the same living room area as the other two birds (Pionus and M2) but he's at a different house than my cockatiel (Ziggy and I live in an apartment). Ziggy and Tommy are around each other maybe once a month at my parents' lake house. When the three family birds travel, they're all in separate carriers but close to each other.

The birds don't usually come in contact with each other, but the virus can be spread through feather dust/dander, and the virus isn't killed by any household cleaners. So there's basically no way to sanitize our house.

Going to get the test done. From what I've been reading, the odds are not as bad as it would be if he was a baby or fledgling (that is usually fatal very quickly). We've had Tommy for more than 6 years (we adopted him second-hand when he was one or two years old) and he just seems to have gotten this way in the last year or so. It's possible it lay dormant all this time... or it's possible he doesn't have it.

All we can do now is hope and pray


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I don't like that the vet just jumps to something so severe and rare like that. I highly doubt the bird has PBFD. I would change the diet and see how much he improves.


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## ~SarahJayne~ (Oct 14, 2012)

Big hugs. It's good to cover all bases I guess. Hopefully the tests come back negative, but in the meantime I'd work on the diet to get a good head start, and keep him separate from other birds just in case. We'll be thinking of you, keep us updated!


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## ccollin13 (May 24, 2013)

I know that it's not necessarily good to jump to something like PBFD right away when he only has a few symptoms, and it's still rare in cockatiels. I don't exactly like being freaked out about it, and I do wish she would have explored other options before scaring me like this.

On the other hand, he does have enough of the symptoms to warrant getting tested. Especially given the danger to the other members of our flock (cockatoos are extremely susceptible to it). If she feels there are enough symptoms to warrant the possibility, I want to do everything I can to protect our other birds from it.

It's a lose-lose situation right now.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> (cockatoos are extremely susceptible to it


Its great to get him tested for it, better safe than sorry right? But this right here makes me think it may not be PBFD. Tommy has been slowly progressing in this for a year now and your 'too isn't showing any symptoms. I like to look on bright side of things.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Also, those feathers are normal. They just got knocked out while they were still molting in.


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## ccollin13 (May 24, 2013)

Delete. I don't want what I said to come off as a personal attack.

Just wanted to say that my avian vet is a former president of the Association of Avian Veterinarians. Along with other credentials. If I can't trust her opinion, I'm not sure who else in the States I go to.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Personally I wouldn't test for PBFD right now, I'd do bloodwork to look at his liver function. The PBFD test is very unreliable. It only shows whether the bird has any immune response to the disease. There are birds that have the disease but don't have any immune response, and there are birds that don't have the disease but do have a natural immune response to it. That means that if he tests negative, you don't know for sure that he doesn't have it, and if he tests positive, he still might not have it. Plus there's no treatment, so what is the benefit of knowing? What would you actually do differently? There's not really anything you _can _do differently. I don't think he fits the PBFD profile at all, and it really doesn't sound like your vet has much familiarity with it beyond a little bit of internet reading.


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## ccollin13 (May 24, 2013)

How do you have any idea what knowledge my vet has, based on the few things that I've said in this thread? And what's the point of knowing whether my bird has a highly contagious, fatal disease? Well, so that that bird doesn't kill off the rest of the birds with which he comes in contact. Including the two other birds he lives with.

I never claimed he had a high chance of having this. Just that it's a possibility my vet mentioned because she doesn't believe diet or liver disease is causing it. I posted on this forum because I was hoping to see if anyone had encountered this before, had any suggestions or advice. Instead I'm just getting blasted about my vet's apparent lack of knowledge about anything relating to diet and disease, and how it would be foolish to check this, how the test is inaccurate, how I'm wrong about what damaged feathers look like.

Forget it. Obviously my vet has no idea what she's talking about. Why go to the vet at all, actually. If the bird has this, he's just going to die anyway.


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## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

ccollins13, I don't think anyone is blasting you or your vet. People are just trying to be helpful. It is obvious that this is very upsetting and by very knowledgeable forum members saying they doubt it is that, they are trying to help you 1) not be so afraid and 2) not spend unnecessary money on testing that is usually unreliable. 

I also know from experience that when others question your vet, you feel attacked. It makes you uneasy as that is who you trust your beloved animals with and it made me feel like people didn't think I knew enough and/or I felt people thought I was stupid for continuing to go to my vet...my vet who saved many an animal's lives for me. This has happened to me in the past with tiels, dogs and dog rescues of mine so I understand. With me, it was never meant that way, but I felt that as it is personal.

Avian medicine however is so unknown in so many areas of the world and vets do their best. My vet has never treated a cockatiel with seizures for example - well guess what - neither has any other vet within 2 hours. Not a tiel anyway - except the University in Madison and they too couldn't diagnose what it was. Most people do not take their birds to the vets so your vet and your bird are in a unique situation. It is a lot of unknown, a lot of let's try this, a lot of let's do more tests as vets and owners learn together. It's just the way it is.

I would lean towards a diet change and a liver test first. If you want to do the other, it wont hurt your bird and it is your choice. And if it will make you feel better about the rest of your flock - then do it. Most of all, pls know that the folks here are trying to help. Not hurt. Not you or most of all your bird.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

And how do you know what _my _knowledge is, before you get defensive and blast me for trying to help you?

Actually my response was based on my experiences with a bird who was suspected of having PBFD due to congenital pattern baldness on her head and back. As a result of this experience, I worked with a very well known avian vet and did a ton of research on my own (and utilizing the resources of the very large medical research institution I work for) so that I could understand both how the tests work and what the best course of action would be. So, you know, if you're looking for someone who's had a similar experience with this, _that would be me. _

Let me break down a few things for you:

1. I said that your vet seems to be unfamiliar with PBFD in cockatiels both because your bird does not actually fit the disease profile and because _you yourself_ said that she had to go and research the clinical presentation and get back to you. If she had been familiar with the clinical presentation, she would have been able to think of it and bring it up right there in your first appointment instead of only after doing research based on additional symptoms you brought to her attention. I don't think it's "blasting" her to point this out.

2. The PBFD test is not definitive. The test for liver function is definitive. Why would you not rule out the definitive thing first, before moving toward a diagnosis of exclusion? This is simply the way good science/good diagnostic investigation works. Also, liver issues would be treatable, whereas PBFD would not. So why not investigate the thing you could actually change?

3. You _are _wrong about what damaged feathers look like. I'm not saying this to be mean, it's just a fact. If the feather you saw looked like the ones in the picture you posted, then it was simply a partially developed bloodfeather that got knocked out before the blood finished retreating from the keratin sheath. That is not a symptom of PBFD, it's just something that happens.

I understand being freaked out about the possibility of PBFD in your flock. But please reread what I'm saying. I am not saying discount the possibility or that "he's just going to die anyway." I'm saying that the test is not definitive, that if he tests positive or negative you still don't know for sure, and that _even if he does_ have the disease, you will not know whether any of the other birds he lives with will ever develop it or are even susceptible. They could all test negative right now, they could all test positive right now, and no matter what, all you can do is wait and see whether any of them develop clinical symptoms.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

One other thing that will cause feathers to look like what you have posted is Quill mites. Your vet may be able to examine them under a high powered microscope.


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## ccollin13 (May 24, 2013)

I apologize for being harsh and defensive. I don't want to make assumptions about anyone here, just like I don't like assumptions being made about me. And I am not trying to prove myself right. Believe me, I'd give anything in the whole world to be wrong about this.

After sitting on it for a few days, I've realized part of the reason that I'm so upset about this. First, the obvious one, I'm just absolutely terrified of this possibility. Second, I have a ton of stress in my life right now, and I'm not handling things well. But I don't want to take it out on you guys, because this seems like a great community and I'd like to be part of it. I'm sorry for what I've said. 

The third is this: the bird belongs to my parents and he's been like this for months, and it's only through my constant nagging to them to take him to the vet that they're even doing something about it. I had actually planned to call the vet to make the appointment myself, drive to my parents' house while they were at work, and take the bird to the vet myself. They take great care of their birds but for some reason they didn't think this feather condition was a problem. I finally got Dad to take him, though. 

I'm just mad because my parents KNOW better, they know tons of things about birds' health. My vet has said that we have the most well-behaved Moluccan cockatoo she's ever seen. My parents know their stuff, and yet they refuse to do anything about Tommy and get mad at me for bugging them. They know this bird looks like a ratty chicken and has something clearly wrong with him, and yet they wouldn't go to the vet. THEN, when I finally get the suggestion of PFBD from the vet, they got very angry and defensive at me for implying that Tommy could be this sick (even if it is just a liver problem). Mom won't even talk to me now. And yet if I hadn't been bugging them at all, they never would have done anything. I'm just so frustrated. All I want is to take care of this poor bird.

With my vet, she had to do research because she hasn't seen a cockatiel with this before. She wasn't looking for symptoms of this virus the first time she examined him, which is why she wants me to bring him back.

I have to wait to get an appointment for Tommy. But in the meantime I went home (I don't live with my parents) and examined him, and here's what else I noticed.

This is under his wing. He is missing a huge patch of down feathers. This pic doesn't show how big the patch actually is. Comparing it to my own cockatiel, there shouldn't be any bald patches at all. Is this where powder down feathers are located on a cockatiel, and is that what is missing? Because from what I understand, powder down feathers are not supposed to be molted at all. This bald patch worries me a lot; I didn't think liver disease caused birds to lose down feathers.










A closer pic of the texture of his feathers. To me, his feathers don't have the same powdery feel that Ziggy's has. If his powder down feathers are what are missing, that would explain the texture and appearance of the feathers, because he has no powder. But as has been pointed out, feathers of a bird with liver disease can appear like this too. Also in this pic, you can see that his crest feathers are extremely limp. They aren't perky and curly like they used to be.










Lastly, here is a pic of a deformed tail feather. (It's not very good quality because the little brat was gnawing on my finger while I was taking it. He hates me). He has 3 or 4 deformed tail feathers and one on his wing. The one in this pic is right below my thumb. I say deformed because it has blood clotted in it, and because the end of the feather is not formed correctly. If it was a feather that had gotten damaged as it was coming out, wouldn't the end of the feather still look like a tail feather? This does not. You can see one of the other feathers to the bottom left of that first one. It doesn't look quite as bad but it has a lot of dried blood in it. I couldn't get a better pic of the other feathers, but the one on the wing looks like it's growing in very narrow and skinny. I'm familiar with what pin feathers look like as they grow in and as the sheath disintegrates away, and this just does not look right.










I could understand if one or two feathers had damaged follicles and came out wrong. Tommy does have one of these - he has a tail feather that got damaged 3 or 4 years ago and comes out crooked every time he molts it. But it just seems worrisome that he has more than one of these feathers, and in different parts of his body. Can any other condition cause this? 

I'm gonna show these conditions to the vet when I take Tommy in. I'll keep asking about liver disease, too. Like I said, I'd give anything in the world for this not to be PBFD, but I'm going to explore all options. If anyone has any suggestions based on these pictures, I welcome them, and I'll stop being a butt-face.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Can someone post a link to my "This is Allie" thread? Those under-the-wing feathers kind of look like start of the shoestring feathers tiels develop on their backs when infected with liver disease. Allie had many of these and I have clear photos in that thread.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Sorry. I was on tapatalk on my phone. Now it's obvious that Allie has broken wings and deformed feet in addition to liver disease, but you can see she has all symptoms except the green wash/tinge that your bird exhibits.

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=30247

Edit: Also, vitamin A deficiencies can cause issues with feather development. Allie was also vitamin A deficient and had a discolored preen gland and dry mates because of it.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

It could be a combo of both Vit A deficiency and liver issues. The only reason I would think those before something like PBFD is because its really not that common. That would be the last thing to ever cross my mind in a bird that looks like Tommy. 

I'm sorry you felt attacked. That wasn't the intention. Our intention is to educate and being on the internet, its hard to convey what you actually mean without coming off highhanded or like we know more than your vet does. It would be nice if our vets knew everything but they don't. When I lost a bunch of babies last year, I got necropsies done and that was just a waste. My vet still couldn't tell what had killed my birds. Its a frustrating situation, a lot of vets will see birds but don't really know what they're looking at. I always take what my vet says with a grain of salt and then do my own research. Its a thin line to walk. And its harder for you because Tommy is your parent's bird, not your's. And in that situation, all you can do is bug them right? And hope they listen. And honestly, for all you know, Tommy's issues could be genetic. Some birds are more prone to liver issues than others (I believe that it was mentioned a while back that stouter birds may be more prone to that). There are a lot of unknowns. The best we can do is take what we know and try our best and I have no doubt that Tommy is getting the best. I would definitely ask the vet to check liver and vit A FIRST...if those are not the issue (I'd also ask about the mites as well) THEN look into other things, such as PBFD. Jumping to conclusions like this IS going to scare and upset you and that wont help you think clearly when speaking with the vet.


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## ccollin13 (May 24, 2013)

Okay, I'll have her do the liver check and vitamin A. At this point I don't really care what it takes. Mom and Dad told me I could be the one to take Tommy to the vet, so once I get there, the whole thing is under my control and the bill goes to Mom and Dad. So if the price goes way up because of the number of tests, well, not my problem  They can afford it.

My last concern is that Tommy is going to hate me even more for taking him there. He got over-bonded with Mom and he's got attitude problems. I don't spend enough time with my family to try to correct that, so that's just the way he is. I still love him, though


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Also, if your Tommy does have liver disease..The vet can give you lactulose, discuss liver detox, or you can go the herbal extract route which I've used successfully with 2 birds. I'be already provided you the information on what to use and how to use them.


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