# my cockatiel is afraid of my hands?



## *Snowy*

hi, my cockatiel Snowy is afraid of my hands, 
i am trying clicker training, trying to touch his beak, he doesnt bite but
goes in a corner and runs away or bites me, i havent touched his beak yet,
also i have only let him out of his cage once u in my room, but hes not new,
had him 3 years! but im trying to get him used to my hands first, but the first time i let him out he started flying around alot and i paniced and tryed to get him back in the cage, he got a cut on his wing, but hes fine now.
i researchedit and i know how to get him back in, but please help me train
him and advice on letting him out? thanks!


----------



## Ghosth

Snowy I see a lot of red flags here. 

I think this is probably the root of your problems, "but the first time i let him out he started flying around alot and i paniced and tryed to get him back in the cage, he got a cut on his wing" That kind of trama can last for a lifetime.

A you let him out before either of you was ready.
B the room was probably not bird safe and prepared.
C your panic cost him an injured wing. At that point I would not trust you either.

You not only have not earned his trust, you broke whatever trust he came with.

At this point, with a fully flighted fully adult bird, it is going to take time, and a huge amount of patience.

While I am no expert on clicker training, from what I've read, your using the clicker to let him know when it does something positive. 
The problem with that is your bird is not likely going to do anything you would consider positive because it is afraid of you.

Now if it was me, I'd either rehome this bird to someone else, so someone else can start from scratch.

Or, I'd setup the room the bird is in, so that it can get out of the cage, have safe places to walk/fly to, that put the bird in close proximity to you. Probably starting with 2-3 feet, and slowly work on tempting them closer. 

Basic diet should be fed in the cage, but most of the toys, treats, should be near to you. And he should have access to them only when your there.

I'd also spend as much time every day in that room as you can, be it reading, playing on the computer, or talking to the bird in a soft quiet voice. Anything that puts you in that room, close to your bird, and quiet, calm and controlled. 

I'm sorry if I was hard on you. I do have a tendency to be brutally honest at times.

Turn things around, walk a mile in your birds shoes. If a giant had put you in the cage, and the first time it let you out, you got seriously hurt, how would you feel about that giant? What would it take for that giant to show that it won't happen again?

And what is going to be best for the bird, long term.


----------



## Cactus18

I'd say you just need to put in a lot of effort and love many birds start scared of hands until they get to a point where they trust you. even my bird charlie - who is now 6 - would bite and hiss a few months ago. That's just because i went on holiday for almost 2 months and he didn't get nearly as much attention or cuddles whilst i was away. Once I got back i really had to apologise to him, slowly get him used to me again, and now he is back to the sweetest cuddly thing ever

If Snowy


----------



## Cactus18

darn, oops i'll continue

If snowy is really that scared, I'd clip his flight feathers so that he can't just fly off in a panic and hurt himself. Then spend as much time as possible sitting (with him in his cage) nearby his cage and talk in a low relaxed voice, or whistle a bit to get his interest. Try do this and offer him some sunflowr seeds or a treat he likes througt the cage bars. does he take treats from you already?

next step would be leaving the cage door open and doing the same talking/whistling routine, offer some treats at the cage door. when he gets a bit comfortable let him be the one to come to the cage door and come out if he likes. once you get him to the stage of sitting happily at the cage entrance.. then you can move on to getting him your finger using treats, and finally being more relaxed with hands in general.

that clicker training doesn't sound right. in my opinion leave clicker training for now and DON'T put your had in his cage/try to grab him out of the cage - this will only make him less trusting. But this will all take time and you'll have to be patient and dedicated! especially because of the accident he had. Goodluck!


----------



## tielfan

Here are some links that will help you learn more about overcoming fear and teaching your bird to trust you. It might seem like a lot of reading, but it will pay off by helping you form a good relationship with your bird:

The lperry82 taming method: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=22073

Using food bribery to change your bird's attitude: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=28661

Bird psychology: http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/gen-psychology.html

Basic principles of clicker training (to help you get a better understanding of the way it works): http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/taming-clicker.html


----------



## *Snowy*

snowy eats out of my hand ( sorry, something i forgot to mention)
and when i sit and talk to him beside the cage he comes over,
so does he trust me? 
if clicker training isnt the right thing to do, what should i do?
p.s the room i let him out in was birdsafe.


----------



## tielfan

Yes, he does have some trust for you. If he eats from your hand then he isn't completely terrified of hands. You can slowly adjust the position of the treat to encourage him to start putting one or both feet on your hand in order to reach the treat.

Clicker training is beneficial, but I provided the link because I thought you needed more info on the basic concept. With targeting (touching a stick with the beak), the idea is to encourage the bird to voluntarily touch the stick, working with him in a non-scary way and rewarding him for any move he makes in the right direction until he figures out what it is you want him to do. A situation where you try to touch his beak and he runs away isn't creating a spirit of mutual cooperation, and creating that spirit is a major goal of clicker training.


----------



## *Snowy*

yes, ive been thinking about trying the stick, but i dont have one,
does any one knowwhere i could get one?
thank you all for replying, youve been a great help!


----------



## tielfan

The stick doesn't have to be anything fancy; the only real requirement is that it shouldn't look like a good stick to perch on to avoid confusing the bird about what you want him to do. You can use a toothpick, a coffee stir, a chopstick, a pen with the point covered up, a piece from an old toy... just anything that's shaped more or less like a stick and is bird-safe. 

Speaking of sticks to perch on, there are many birds who are afraid to step up on a hand but are willing to step up on a stick because the stick isn't as scary as the hand. So if you have a spare perch, it might be helpful for transporting Snowy when he's out of the cage. 

You said in your first post that he's only been out of the cage once in three years. That isn't healthy for him (he needs the exercise), and he's so used to being in there that he's probably going to be very reluctant to come out. He will be a lot better off if you teach him to come out, and it will also be easier for you to work with him when he's out of the cage. My suggestion would be to get his wings clipped for safety (you can let them grow out again later when he's tame). Then whenever you're in the room to keep an eye on him, open the cage door and put a very tasty treat like millet spray close to the door where he can reach it easily, so that he can eat it whenever he wants to. You might have to actually put it inside the cage at first; the general idea is to get him comfortable with being in that area, then gradually change the position of the treat so he has to venture out a little bit further to reach it. Once he gets used to coming all the way out of the cage, you can put him on top of the cage with some more treats so he can get used to sitting up there, and eventually work on teaching him to play in other parts of the room.


----------



## *Snowy*

thank you! ill buy some toothpicks and try with them.
when i let snowy out for the first time, a few minutes after i opened his cage, he went down to the opening and stood there for a few seconds, then 
jumped up and flew!


----------



## tielfan

If this flight from the cage happened recently then you're right, he's eager to come out and you don't need to lure him out. If it happened a long time ago then his attitude might have changed and he might be afraid to come out now. 

There are many people who have successfully tamed fully flighted birds, and if you think you can get him back in the cage without anyone panicking or you having to chase him to the point of exhaustion then you don't need to clip him and can start letting him out of the cage any time you're ready. But it's usually a lot easier and safer for an inexperienced person to work with a bird that is clipped, so please give serious thought to this option. A bird that steps up readily inside the cage might be too nervous to do it when he's in the unfamiliar situation of being out of the cage, so don't count on him being willing to step up once you let him out no matter how well he learns to do it inside the cage.


----------



## Cactus18

I agree with tielfan I'd try get somone, even a vet, who is experienced with clipping wings to do it. Having clipped wings will make him easier to train and make him more dependent on you. Then go through the process tielfan explained with getting him comfortable to explore further and further out of his cage by offering treats at greater distances from the entrance. keep your hand movements slow and non-aggressive. even if he reachs out to bite or hiss, don't pull your hand away quickly or it will scare him more. 

when he is a bit less jumpy out of his cage and takes treats calmly, then try offer some millet with one hand and put the other (one finger) in front of him so that to get the treat he has to step on your hand (and say step up so he can learnt the command). if he's still too scared, try again with a stick/perch instead of a finger. then you can move onto fingers later on when he's comfortable stepping on a perch

I wouldn't try teach him step up whilst in his cage. Not an expert, but to me it seems he would feel like you are invading his house and personal space, therefore less inclined to be friendly - and instead be defensive or possibly aqggressive.


----------



## SnackBriber

Also and just to add.. I know it is great to get personalized responses to your question.. But it is also a good idea to get into the habit of searching the forum before asking a question as this is a topic that gets asked at least once a week and there is already so much info and help from those questions on here.
We are very lucky to have such an active community on here that will always respond and give help where and when needed, but after a while, the same question does, I'm sure get a little bit annoying..
I hope I don't come off rude when saying that..


----------



## Bird Junky

Hello I have a section on birds. With a fear of hands. In my
Bird bonding post. Suggest you click on it for a read before 
making your mind up. While on the subject of clicking Re training
I don't advise it as any mimic bird can soon learn to repeat the 
clicking noise for the treat. It can get quite annoying as it's
easier to teach a sound, than to un-teach it .....B.J.

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=31981


----------



## bjknight93

tielfan said:


> Here are some links that will help you learn more about overcoming fear and teaching your bird to trust you. It might seem like a lot of reading, but it will pay off by helping you form a good relationship with your bird:
> 
> The lperry82 taming method: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=22073
> 
> Using food bribery to change your bird's attitude: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=28661
> 
> Bird psychology: http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/gen-psychology.html
> 
> Basic principles of clicker training (to help you get a better understanding of the way it works): http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/taming-clicker.html


These have worked wonders for many many people, and I plan to use them when I get around to taming Taz.  Good luck to you and keep us updated!


----------



## *Snowy*

Snowy is doing really well with the target training, he now steps up onto the perch. 
He also steps up onto my fingers ( reluctantly ) when i put them in front of a treat 
i don't really want to clip Snowys wings until he trusts hands, because im afraid of losing his trust,
sorry, i know you have loads of questions about trusting hands but i just wanted to ask because
i did'nt know what to do.


----------



## Bird Junky

Hello You've had some good advice so I thought I'd add mine..B.J.

BIRDS WITH A FEAR OF HANDS

These birds panic & flutter frantically about in the cage at the mere sight of a hand entering their cage. Threatening to if not actually biting . 
The way I have tackled this little problem for the past 50yrs or so is to set up the cage with the basic seed mix or pellets, water, iodine block & cuttlebone. Both the water & seed containers are better if they are the tube type which can be refilled without opening the cage door. This will prevent further upset to already fearful bird. The remaining foods such as, fruit/veg, hard boiled egg, millet spray etc. are to be provided in small portions as treat foods. 
These should be fed in small portions by you through the bars of the cage, with a pair of tweezers or chopsticks to protect your fingers. 
As the bird gets used to this, very gradually over the next few days, move your fingers up & closer to the treat food as you slowly build up a bond of trust between you & the bird. If your bird shies away remove the treat food immediately until he settle down & move your fingers further back up tweezers away from the food before you re-offer it. If a bird shows by his body language he's even thinking of biting you. Remove the treat food count to ten then & re-offer it. 
Do this as many times as it takes. Biting at the tweezers or sticks usually means, he doesn't like the treat or he's full up. Give him a chance to regain his appetite. You don't want a fat bird, do you?
Feed only one type of treat per visit. The smaller the treat food the more often the visits. This will show the bird that your arrival, means nice things to eat. Hard boiled egg should be sliced & fed one slice per visit. Expect a few set backs. Birds like people, have good & bad days. Don't be in a hurry, only when your bird is 100% happy to eat from your fingertips through the bars for several days, is he ready to move on to the next step in your training & taming program......B.J.
PS Sorry didn't realised I'd posted on here already....


----------

