# I think the younger babies are being plucked



## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

I'm not sure who the culprit would be, do siblings a few days older pluck eachother or younger siblings? The two that are older have lots of feathers, but the two that are almost three weeks old have lots of bald spots that have dark spots where pin feathers should be. The older brother is still in the cage with everyone and nest, but he is out of the nest most of the time. I've noticed in the last week mom has been in the nest alot, and she is the nippiest of the parents, so it could be her wanting all these kids out of the nest right? 

I'm wanting to know if its okay to totally pull all four for handfeeding and not put them back with the parents at all, they range from almost three weeks up to four for the older two, who are already fledging the nest box.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

By the way, it looks like the smallest baby is a cinnamon!!! So exciting!! I've moved them out of the cage and they have had two feedings, they are getting the hang of it. Marshall and Lily are a bit upset because I took Marvin from them too, he leaves on Tuesday, so I figured I might as well tear off the bandaid all at once. He's in the new cage with the babies that I bought today. Marshall seems to be the most upset. Should I maybe once or twice a day give them a baby to feed and then take it back out?


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## Erinsmom (Sep 7, 2012)

I wouldn't give them a baby to feed. Once you pull...pull the nest and be done with it.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Sometimes plucking is caused by sodium deficiency, but when the babies are approaching fledging age it's frequently because the parents want them to hurry up and leave the nest so they can start a new clutch. It's definitely a good idea to get that nest out of there unless you want another clutch.

It's generally recommended to let your birds have a maximum of two clutches in a 12-month period. But your first two clutches combined total five chicks, which is an average number of babies for one clutch. So if your parent birds have an excellent diet it would theoretically be OK to let them go for one more clutch. But personally, I would yank the nest right now and start using hormone control techniques on them. The number of babies might be relatively small, but the parents have been busy for a long time now and could probably use a rest.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Umm yeah, I had planned to take the nest box away this morning, and as I walked to the cage they started breeding, I opened the cage and he was not about to stop LOL, I'm like Marshall, seriously, and he's like watch this mom LOL!! So I just pulled the box, and he's looking for it, he's like WTH, it was just here, I swear there was a portal to babies here just a second ago!!

As for hormone control, the easiest thing for me is going to be to blast them with light 24 hours a day. I have no other location to move the cage back and forth to really, and with my dogs it's hard to have it quiet for long LOL. I have no spare bedroom that they can be moved into, no space in my son's room, my sister in law is in our extra room and my hubby sleeps in the day, and I can't risk them deciding to make noise and wake him up if they were in our room. Does the 24hr light work? What do you think is my best option?

Babies did good with their morning feeding. How long until the plucked feathers heal do you think? My poor babies, I feel so bad for them.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Once they are removed from the plucking situation the feathers will start to grow back, it may take a month or two for them to fully fill out. Also, remember, it takes two weeks for the hormone therapy to take effect so there will still be mating and maybe an egg or two which you can shake or boil to prevent hatching. Also, tiels mate for fun, so you may get mating and no eggs, nothing to worry about. 

Since the longer nights isn't feasible for you (there isn't like a hall closet that you can roll the cage into or get a smaller cage and place in there?) the 24hrs of light will work. Just remember not to turn the light off at all because then they'll think its shorter nights, which means spring and babies. Can't wait to see pictures!!!


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Here are the little velociraptors today at feeding time  They definitely have the hang of things, it's the clean up that I don't quite have under control yet LOL!! The little cinnamon girl is the biggest pig, and has a heck of a right wing block at feeding time, it is all about her in her eyes LOL, every bird for themselves!!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10201111096444713&l=3467514146331473186


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Here is the crew after dinner tonight, feathers are coming back in nicely, the two youngest are in the forefront and their backs were half bald. So seven days into handfeeding everyone is looking and doing great.


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## ollieandme (Mar 25, 2013)

they are absolutely beautiful! aren't cockatiel babies just darling?!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

They're beautiful!!! The lutino is a girl and the youngest looks either cinnamon or fallow. If cinnamon she's a girl, if fallow, she could be either gender.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

The youngest has dark eyes and not red, so does that mean cinnamon? Or can fallows have dark eyes?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Nope then definitely not fallow...so sounds like you have a cinnamon girl as well!!


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Thanks  The cinnamon has dark eyes, do fallows only have red eyes?


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

Yes, fallows have red eyes like lutinos.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Your babies are adorable, and the feeding video was hilarious! You might have less mess to clean up if you feed them one at a time instead of all in a group, and cup your free hand around the baby's back with the thumb and forefinger lightly supporting the jaw. The baby will still have some wiggle room but it won't be able to move around as much, and you won't have to work so hard to hit the target.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Yes, I've started about five days ago with individual feedings and things are cleaner now  I did the group feedings at first because they ate better with competition, I figure if it works for puppies it will work for birds, they weren't getting the hang of it when I first pulled them so I did the group. The oldest grey has flown twice now around the kitchen during feeding time LOL. I'm going to clip him today as I can't have him flying around my house, too dangerous with the dogs, they are not used to birds and love to chase birds outside LOL. I put them in crates or outside when I feed but I'd hate to have an accident. I've checked out instructions for clipping with pics and videos to so I think I can get it done. Gonna do the grey and the lutino female, providing there are no blood feathers of course since they are still young. They are a very persistant little gang of birds, lots of attitude, especially from Cinnamon whos the youngest. Oh and parent update, I removed the nest that day and they bred once the next day, but then so far no more breeding thank God!! I need a break after this LOL!! Thanks so much for everyones help, will try to post some more pics soon of the crew


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If you can hold off on clipping the babies, that would be desirable. Learning to fly properly is beneficial for the baby's physical health and mental health too. If they don't learn it at the proper developmental age, they can't fully make up for it later. Their chest muscles develop better at this age and their mental flexibility is better now too. Flapping is instinctive, but steering and landing have to be learned. Part of that process is making decisions on where to go and how to best manage the landing, which develops their intelligence, independence, and confidence. 

Keeping the babies alive is obviously the top priority, and you don't want them flying around in an area where they can travel in a straight line for a long time building up a lot of speed in the process. If you have a fairly small room where you can feed them and let them fly around, that will be much better. There will still be a lot of crashes while they learn what works and what doesn't, but they won't be able to build up too much speed so they aren't likely to get hurt.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

I wish I did have a small room they could go in but I don't have one, the room they are in is quite long in fact. My bedroom is out of the question because of hubby's daytime sleep schedule, no room in the other two rooms. I didn't get any clipping done just yet. The only one that takes off is the oldest male, who still needs a name LOL, he is actually pretty careful, which is good. He took off twice during his breakfast at the table and kinda went straight up to the ceiling fan (off of course). Landed in the same place both times. Then again tonight at the kitchen sink he flew up to the top of the kitchen curtains, just out of reach LOL so I had to get on the counter. The other three are only practicing in the cage right now fluttering about. They are quite the little circus. One cool think I noticed tonight was that the lutino, who so far I call Blondie LOL, looks to be getting feathers coming in on her bald patch on her head, I'd be thrilled if it filled in  The cinnamon, who is so far named Cinnamon LOL, is the most demanding of the bunch, but the younger grey, middle child LOL, is very into me, he loves to scoot up my arm or get onto my body as fast as he can, he's pretty cute  The older grey and Blondie have a home already when they are old enough, and once the other two are old enough I'll start looking for homes for them. No rush, they have a great cage and are cool to stay as long as necessary of course. Anyways, I'll try to hold off a little longer on the clipping


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I think fledglings have a natural instinct to fly onto anything in the room that remotely resembles a branch. Every baby that has fledged in my house (38 of them so far) headed for the ceiling fan in the bird room early and often, and they also like to land on the frames of pictures that are hung high up on the wall.

Landing on the ceiling fan is safe enough, even though it means you might have to keep a stepladder nearby to get them down. The dangerous part comes when the babies get more ambitious and start making longer flights. They don't understand walls, let alone windows and mirrors, and if they can build up enough speed they may injure or kill themselves by smacking into something.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Of course after your post yesterday the lutino female decided to take her first flight, all the way down the long room and luckily into the curtains instead of the wall. Then today they wanted to eat a little and then take off flying, it was like, lets all do flight school today and make mom climb the countertops to fetch us off the top of the really dusty cabinets LOL!! They are getting a bit scary. The third chick tried a short flight today and I'm just terrified for the cinnamons first flight because she is a pistol on the ground I'm sure she will be **** on wings!! They will not be keeping their flight feathers much longer I'm afraid, this house is just not the best for flying. The one side of the house where they are is really open and probably just over 50 feet long!!!!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

You could give them a light clip that slows them down but still allows some flight capability.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

By a light clip do you mean the clip where you leave the two outermost feathers intact?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I think that's usually called a show clip, and I'm not a fan of it because the outermost feathers don't have adequate support and are very vulnerable to getting knocked out. My preference for a light clip is to either not take as many feathers as you normally would (for example taking 3 or 4 feathers instead of 5 or 6), or to take the full number of feathers but not cut them as short as you normally would. Either technique will leave the bird with less wing surface, so it won't be able to fly as high and fast as an unclipped bird.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Haven't clipped anyone yet by the way  The youngest has just started flying a few days ago. Blondie is getting better and the boys are quite good, and have now mastered landing on my head. The oldest even learned today that "come here" means leave where you are and come land on my head LOL, then I tell him step up to my finger and then "shoulder" to place him on my shoulder instead of just flying back up to my head. And I think he learned today what "hugs" is, I put my head to my shoulder and he ducks his head, but started to duck when I would say it before moving my head. He's funny, he wasn't so into me until about two days ago, now he's all about it. I think now that he has flying down to a science he want's to get to know me better LOL. The younger brother was into me, but is now more into flying, until today, he wanted to hang with brother on my head and shoulders LOL. And only my shoulders got pooped on thank God LOL!! They need flight suits LOL. Here's a pic of the foursome on the perch today. Oh and the Blondie's bald spot behind her crest is filled in with feathers now. Isn't it more rare than common that a lutino does not have a bald spot?


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## ollieandme (Mar 25, 2013)

oh my goodness they are gorgeous!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It's common for lutinos to have a bald spot and also common for them not to have one. If you look at the top of everyone's head when they have their crest raised, you might find that she has less feather coverage than the others even now.

I don't remember whether you've mentioned the mutations of the grey babies before. One of them has a solid white tail feather which makes him an apparent visual pied, although I don't see any other pied feathers. You've got a cinnamon girl too, but I think you've mentioned her before.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

That feather on him is solid yellow, so what would that mean? I want to get better pics of them for you all


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> That feather on him is solid yellow, so what would that mean? I want to get better pics of them for you all


It means he's a visual light pied...so instead of being split to pied, he's a visual one just very light.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Having at least one pied tail feather or flight feather is very strongly correlated with having two pied genes not just one; a very experienced breeder (srtiels) has never seen a case where a bird with a pied feather in these locations did not have two pied genes, or a case where a bird with no pied feathers in these locations had two pied genes. I think it's at least possible that the wing or tail feathers could occasionally be deceptive, but it's unlikely.


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