# On the subject of mirror



## vulgaris (Dec 17, 2017)

Hello everybody

I am seeking advice for myself and my cockatiel. The bird is around 8 or 9 years old, was not hand raised, and is extremely attached to his mirror. I've searched through the forums and read most that I could find on mirrors.

Let me begin by saying that I have owned several other tiels before. However, my previous tiels were all hand raised, and quickly formed a bond and strong trust with me. 

When I got Charlie I was in high school, I knew he was not hand raised, but chose him anyway. We had a rocky start, in the first few years I failed to gain his trust and could not handle him, perhaps due to my lack of experience with un-tamed birds. He formed an attachment with his mirror, and I went away to college while he remained at my parents house. The only thing I was able to accomplish with him is that he likes to come out and step onto his seed dish, and I bring the mirror, and the “three of us” spend time together. I was never able to handle him. Of course I came home multiple times each year and spent limited time with him in this fashion. We even began some flight training, where I had him do short flights from the perch to the seed cup for a treat.

Now it is seven years later. I am done with school and am at a crossroads with the bird. I have spent the past six months trying to make up for lost time with him. I have spent every day with him and his mirror, he loves to come out on his seed cup with the mirror, and I have a perch stand which he and the mirror will sit on. In this fashion, we hang out together, and he has gotten used to eating every meal with me. I hold him on the seed cup with one hand while I eat with the other. He will scream if he hears me getting food ready and I don’t come to get him out of the cage.

One day during flight training he accidentally landed on my hand. Since, then, he has learned to do a short flight or jump onto my hand from inches or feet away from the perch, for a treat. That is, he comes to me. If I move my hand toward him whatsoever, he becomes defensive and violent, and ignores the treat I am holding. When he does jump onto my hand, he eats the treat quickly and flies off, or sometimes even bites my hand once he is on it and draws blood. At one point he held his wings up the whole time like an eagle, as if completely disgusted by the fact that he was on my hand. 
Progress seems to have stopped there. I make it a point to do training sessions every evening. But he won’t allow me to approach him with my hand. He seems to possess a strong natural fear of human hands which I can’t override no matter how much training we do. 

I will be moving again in the near future, and am determined to either win him over (I really do love him) or try to place him with someone in an aviary so he can live a fulfilling life. 

I guess my question for everyone is, What do you think is the best course of action from here? The real dilemma comes when considering taking the mirror away, in hopes that he might look to me for a bond. Charlie has been with his mirror mate for almost eight years, and right now he cannot be more than two feet distance from the mirror before he has an anxiety attack. I am terrified that taking it away will either kill him or emotionally damage him for the remainder of his life. 

Does anyone have experience taking away a mirror in such a case and how did your bird fare through this process? 
Thanks for any advice you might have.


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## ParrotLover2001 (Dec 30, 2016)

Try removing the mirror and see how he reacts without it. I had to take away all mirrors to earn my lovebird's trust. 

Sounds like he has bonded to the bird in the mirror, himself. Which means it should be removed for a few weeks or months so you have a chance to tame him.

Sent from my Galaxy s8


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I agree with the above. Remove the mirror. He may scream for a couple of days, calling for it but it shouldn't be too traumatic for him.


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## tielbob (Mar 25, 2013)

Haven't had the mirror attachment problem with my birds but I do hope you will be able to keep him as part of your family.


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## vulgaris (Dec 17, 2017)

Thanks guys.

I removed the mirror in the middle of the night last night so that when he woke up this morning it was already gone, and that seemed to be less stressful on him than taking it away in the daylight. 

This morning we had breakfast without the mirror and he was fine, a bit of screaming but not bad. Then a little later he got upset and flew around the house looking for it and crashed into two windows before I had to rescue him. This was the first time he flew into any windows in a very long time  

The rest of the day he is very mute and unresponsive to me, seems to have no desire to interact or do any of our usual activities. In fact he seems to want to just sit in the corner of his cage which is nearest to the rabbit, and sometimes pace back and forth. Hopefully a few more days we can be back to normal. I am trying to spend as much time with him out of his cage as he would like, but right now he is behaving very morose, and even when on his perch stand he won't step up onto the seed cup like normal.


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## vulgaris (Dec 17, 2017)

A quick update a week later:

Continuing to spend as much time as possible doing work by his cage and being with him. He has developed a bit of an obsession with the rabbit in the neighboring cage. It is fantastic that he has this buddy to keep him company at times when we all need to be away from the house (which is very rare), but it is making it a bit difficult to spend time bonding with just him. 

Now instead of the three of us (the mirror, him and I), when I spend time with him it is the three of us, the rabbit him and I. When I have him on his perch in the living room he is continually anxious to get back into the other room to see the rabbit. Vocally, he responds to the sound of the rabbits feet on the plastic bottom, yelling out and calling every time he hears the rabbit move. Being next to the rabbit comforts him. If I cover that side of the cage to block his view he can't stand it. 

Perhaps it will just take a few more months of spending time with him and the rabbit before he comes to rely on me for comfort.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

You can try letting him look at the mirror while you're holding it in your hands. He will obviously be paying attention to the mirror, not to you. But he will be spending time with you, and learning that good things happen when he's with you. 

You can also hold treats in your hand for him to eat, like millet spray. The treat should be something that he only gets when he's with you.


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## vulgaris (Dec 17, 2017)

tielfan said:


> You can try letting him look at the mirror while you're holding it in your hands. He will obviously be paying attention to the mirror, not to you. But he will be spending time with you, and learning that good things happen when he's with you.
> 
> You can also hold treats in your hand for him to eat, like millet spray. The treat should be something that he only gets when he's with you.



The mirror has been gone for 2.5 weeks and he doesn't seem to miss it now. I don't plan to re-introduce it. He gets millet every time we do training. The problem is that his affection has been fully redirected onto the rabbit instead of me like I had planned. Yesterday I got jealous with him just wanting to stare at the rabbit the whole time I was there, so I blocked his view while I was there with him. He spent ~5-10 minutes pacing, calling, and trying to see the rabbit before calming down with me. After a while I had to make a phone call in another room so I left momentarily and he went to the corner where the rabbit usually is and began screaming like he was being murdered. Then he half screamed half whistled in an extreme episode of mania. Before the removal of the mirror he pretty much couldn't care less about the rabbit, but now it is all that he lives for, even when I am around he ignores me for the rabbit.

I can't spend all my time in the same room as him and there are certain rooms which he can't go in or is afraid of, so it doesn't seem plausible to separate him completely from the rabbit due to the screaming and the small space in the house. Do you think it is good to block his view of the rabbit while i spend time with him? Is it even worth it if he is just going to obsess as soon as I leave the room and unblock the rabbit? My parents are calling it cruel to block his view whatsoever. I'm pretty disappointed that removing the mirror has resulted in another impossible struggle for the birds attention and affection.


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

That's great that he's fine without the mirror. Mirrors in cages can turn a friendly bird into an aggressive bird very easily (especially males). I sometimes let Coco talk to my phone (he likes the screen's reflection) when he's on my shoulder, it starts him off on a sing-song.


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## Mushroom1993 (Feb 26, 2017)

Heh There - I have monitored mirror time with my young boy Halo (just over year old now, hand reared) where Halo sits on my hand and chirps into the mirror WITH me looking at him and kissing his little feathery cheeks. He chirps obsessively, gets agro (which is why I took it away in the first instance) BUT the reflection is both of us. He flies to me when I take out THE MIRROR. I take the mirror away and say 'Enough now' and he is learning that's a special time for US, not for his 'Narcissus moment'. Hope this helps...


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## vulgaris (Dec 17, 2017)

Mushroom1993 said:


> Heh There - I have monitored mirror time with my young boy Halo (just over year old now, hand reared) where Halo sits on my hand and chirps into the mirror WITH me looking at him and kissing his little feathery cheeks. He chirps obsessively, gets agro (which is why I took it away in the first instance) BUT the reflection is both of us. He flies to me when I take out THE MIRROR. I take the mirror away and say 'Enough now' and he is learning that's a special time for US, not for his 'Narcissus moment'. Hope this helps...



Thanks! Was Halo hand tamed before you introduced him to the mirror? Since Charlie's mirror removal he has refused to jump onto my hand like he used to, even for a few seconds. I'm giving it a few more weeks to see if maybe he will be able to re-learn this behavior, but he just doesn't want to at this point.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Try using his favorite treats to tempt him. He's probably mad right now and feels like you made his "mate" go away. He will come around.


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## vulgaris (Dec 17, 2017)

Here's a video clip of his new obsession (chosen mate??) with the rabbit. He doesn't really want to come out of the cage unless i block view of the rabbit and he needs constant visual on it. This morning I tried offering him some millet while he was looking at the rabbit. He came over un-aggressive and then at the last second changed his mind and i got one of the worst bites in the nine years I've had him (under the thumbnail, drew lots of blood and pain). Also his poops on the bottom indicate that whenever he is in his cage, he spends every waking moment in that corner now. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPpvCticeOc

I will continue trying to work with him for another few months while deciding if it is in his best interest to look for a sanctuary to re-home him where he can get the fulfilling physical contact that he deserves and has been lacking all his life. Or possibly adopt an older rescue tiel companion for him myself if I end up living in a stable place for a while.


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## Dr Reba (3 mo ago)

If you give him away, he it will confirm his trust issues. I have a male cockatiel, Oliver, that is very attached to his mirror. He was neglected in his first year of life and does not like hands at all. I get him out several times daily by having him step up on a big knitting stick and he then jumps on my shoulder. He will allow me to touch his forehead and scratch it but that is all. I have taken all but one mirror away from Oliver and now I am working on getting rid of this last small mirror. It is keeping him from bonding with the newest family member, Pearly, who is a female albino cockatiel. If you have a non-trusting male cockatiel who was neglected or ignored or even mistreated, they will not like hands but you can work on the trust issue. I have Oliver in a strict routine so that he feels like mom is in charge and predictable. In the 6 years I have had him, he has come a long way with his behavior and trust issues. He now enjoys coming out and sharing dinner with me and loves to cuddle with me in bed for about 30 minutes each night just before the house goes silent for Night Night. I have accepted that Oliver does not like to be touched but shows me love in many other ways. I plan on moving him to a bigger cage and the mirror will not go with him. He will get used to a new reality without the mirror.


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## bdgffufg (3 mo ago)

Now it is seven years later. I am done with school and am at a crossroads with the bird. I have spent the past six months trying to make up for lost time with him. I have spent every day with him and his mirror, he loves to come out on his seed cup with the mirror, and I have a perch stand which he and the mirror will sit on. In this fashion, we hang out together, and he has gotten used to eating every meal with me. I hold him on the seed cup with one hand while I eat with the other. He will scream if he hears me getting food ready and I don’t come to get him out of the cage.


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