# Really, really, need help



## Camilla18 (Jul 21, 2013)

I'm on the verge of just letting my bird fly out the window, by accident of course.  I've had Charlie :grey tiel: since July and I made the mistake of getting him from a pet store. (first time bird owner mistake, I know)

He's horrible. Awful. Bites and screams all the time! I've tried EVERYTHING. 
I bought him a cage which is made for a LARGE parrot, toys (plastic, bells, shredders, wood, leather, etc), barely eats any treats (inc. millet!) and he doesn't do anything with them! When he's forced out of the cage, he will sit on my finger and preen on himself FOREVER which is annoying but I don't stop it because it's a sign he's comfortable with me, right?

My issue is he hates me, and his toys. Whenever I go near him he BITES me. Only once was I able to gently pet his beak and he actually closed his eyes and relaxed. (a week ago) and I taught him Step Up to my much delight (a while ago) but will bite before doing so most of the time.
He's going to be 1 yr old this Dec.
After much chasing around his cage, does he sit on my finger after taking him away (sometimes flying away...) I trimmed his wings once with a help of a bird friend but not again bc 1) too expensive for a vet 2) friend doesnt live close by.

When I first got him I went through the motions, gently speaking to him after a few days of being alone to get used to his new place and offer treats through the bars (never ever taken them).
He currently is sitting on top of my laptop while typing this, still preening, but when I move my finger to him he hisses and lunges to bite me! 

HELPPPPPP. I've listed him to go somewhere to a more experienced bird owner but... I still really like him. (sometimes). I at least want him to play with toys!


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## Camilla18 (Jul 21, 2013)

Forgot to menton he doesnt eat his veggies.


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## Neeve & Sid (Sep 24, 2013)

I'm a first time bird owner too, and I also got my bird from a pet shop.
Although I don't offer years of experience with birds; I can say that you'll just need to be patient. I'm afraid when buying a bird it is life on their terms, at least till they are tame. And I know many forum members would agree, even then its on their terms  When I first got Sid, he would hiss and and not want to bother with me. Now he's perfectly fine with me (9 times out of 10 ) Try build a bond with your guy. Whistle to him, read, sing, chatter. Anything. Just be around him. Also, some people say you will build a better bond with a bird with clipped wings. Its completely your decision. I've never clipped Sid's wings, and I didn't have much trouble training and taming. However its your choice  You'll get there 
I'm sorry if I haven't been much help, I know everyone else on the forum will give you the answers you were looking for. I just wanted to say that you'll get there, and don't give up


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Hi Camilla,

It sounds like Charlie was not human-socialized before you brought him home. You probably moved too fast, wanting to get him out of the cage right away and handle him. Birds require a tremendous amount of patience...they don't perceive time as we do. Weeks, even months, are nothing to them. Also, being a tiny prey animal that likely hasn't had any good experiences with humans in his life, he's going to need you to prove to him that you're a friend. Give him reasons to want to be with you. Chasing him around the cage, forcing him out, taking away his mobility by clipping his wings*...none of these things helped your case in his eyes I'm sure. All he knows now is that you're the big scary/annoying creature that forces him to do things against his will. He probably feels powerless and frustrated.

I am not trying to sound harsh or critical...I know pet stores give really bad advice on bonding sometimes! I'm sure you didn't know any better. It's great that you've come here for help now. 

We have some good articles on taming that I will link for you. What has worked for me is, never force the bird to do anything unless absolutely necessary. Try to remember, they are beings with their own desires as well. Just spend as much time with a new bird as possible, not physically interacting if the bird is not into it, but just do your thing. Offer treats if he will take them, talk to him, even read aloud to him. Leave the cage door open and have some perches on the outside, or push it up to a couch or something where he can come out and explore (if he chooses to).

It's going to be harder if he doesn't like millet and you can't find another treat he's into...food bribery is one of the most recommended training methods. You need SOME sort of positive reinforcement, whether it's treats, affection (for tame birds), or something else. Have you tried sunflower seeds as treats?

As for why he doesn't play...I'm not sure. Sometimes it takes them a while to figure it out. To be honest, since he hasn't bonded with you he might just be lonely and frustrated. He might miss his own kind.  I would focus on trying to make all interactions with him positive, try to gain his trust and hope he calms down eventually.

What is the environment like in the room where his cage is? Is he alone a lot? Are there predator animals (cats or dogs) around? Is it too quiet? (Birds hate silence). Do you have any photos of his cage?
Also, how much sleep does he get per night? Less than ten hours of uninterrupted darkness can make them cranky and/or hormonal.

I don't have much time so sorry if my thoughts are a bit scattered. I'll post those links for you on the next post.

(*Wing clipping is a controversial subject. I don't personally believe in it and I don't believe it helps with taming and bonding. A lot of people decide to clip, and maybe for some situations it's appropriate, but I'm just pointing out that it COULD be one more factor in his frustration.)


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=33824

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=22073

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=28661

There you go.

I'd also like to add that cockatiels very rarely bite defensively with no warning. They will usually give you TONS of signs they don't like what you're doing before resorting to violence -- hissing, lunging, backing away, etc. It could be that because you've ignored his warnings, he's now learned to bite first and ask questions later. Just remember, forcing him to do things, physically overpowering him, is not the way to gain his trust.


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## Mezza (Feb 19, 2013)

I am sorry to hear this. Please, Please don't let him fly away.

As Moonchild said - it requires alot of patience and time. 

I can't give you too much advise - I am not a expert. I just wanted to say - it took a while to find a toy Skiddles liked. One bell that she boxes with regularly. I did find she LOVE'S ice cream sticks...ok, it the ice cream yourself first. 

Please don't give up. We are all here to support you and help in anyway we can.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

I agree with everything that has been said. You need to be patient with him and give him some space. Don't expect much. I know you are frustrated, but like the others have said, birds are different than dogs or cats.
I am also wondering if he is getting enough sleep. Screaming can be related to hormonal moods. Try to give him long nights. 
Just because he is from a pet shop it doesn't mean he can't be a good and affectionate pet. Also, you have to be honest with yourself - do you really want a pet bird? If not, maybe the best option for both of you is to find Charlie a new home.


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## scootergirl762 (Aug 27, 2013)

You've gotten a lot of great advice already. I have to agree with eduardo, as well - it might be that a pet bird isn't what you really want. Perhaps you're willing to put in some more time with him, and start from the standpoint of getting him to trust you. If you do decide to keep him, take it very slow - and the links that Moonchild gave you are so worth reading. Good luck to you both!


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## Amz (Apr 10, 2013)

Basically, everything that everyone has said.

Although I'd like to add, birds love mental stimulation. Try doing something involving that, it'll make him curious.

Give him reasons to want to come to you... if you can find out what his favorite food is, take some and pretend to eat it. And make a *BIG HUGE DEAL* out of it. Loudly say "mmmm, yummy!" or "woooowwwwww!" and (pretend to) eat it like it's the best thing you've ever tasted. He might want it bad enough to come to you and eat it from you. But otherwise, let him come to you on his own terms. If he's biting or hissing or swaying or anything else, leave him be. Don't try to force him to do anything.

Try to stay patient and positive. Tiels are loving, sweet birds by nature. He'll come around. But right now, he's definitely picking up on some of your negative emotions and displaying them himself. Try to be calm and quiet, and don't come at him quickly or from above.

But also... don't blame yourself or think you're a bad bird owner. The fact that you came here asking for advice is great, and proves that you care more than the next guy. We're all here to answer questions.


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## nassrah (Feb 27, 2012)

I cannot but agree with everything that's been said here.Tiels are the sweetest creatures,but we have to respect their personalities.Love and patience are the words.I would like to suggest that you would try to put yourself in Charlie s shoes(or feet) .Maybe that would help you to understand him better.By the way,I know it is a controversial issue,but I would like to point out that I cant see why wing clipping could be of any improvement for a bird.All the best X x


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## Amz (Apr 10, 2013)

nassrah said:


> By the way,I know it is a controversial issue,but I would like to point out that I cant see why wing clipping could be of any improvement for a bird.


Honestly, it depends on the individual. Rocko was up the wall when he was flighted, and clipping calmed him down. It wasn't such an extreme clip that he couldn't fly, in fact, he could fly just as well. But it made life easier for both of us, as he even acted happier.

But you're right, it's a controversial issue, and we've had too many debates on it lately... so I'm gonna let it be


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

This could just be my theory, but I think a lot of strong-willed birds, independent birds just do not do well clipped. Neither do a lot of skittish, untame birds. They get frustrated, depressed, angry, or it just makes them more skittish and mistrustful. A very sweet, well-socialized tiel might be more likely to forgive. But I noticed with Astrid, she started getting more confident AND friendlier once she was flighted. I think if she had come to me flighted, and I'd clipped her, she'd have HATED me forever. She'd have remembered it and held a grudge. I don't think clipping benefits most birds. It CAN help temporarily with aggressive birds that are attacking other birds or humans. But, in my experience, it's a myth that it helps with bonding. Only trust gaining can help with bonding. There are no shortcuts to that!


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## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Hi Camilla, you have already received the best advice ever from very knowledgeable members, so I won't add much.
But reading your post I found two interesting points.

"When he's forced out of the cage, he will sit on my finger and preen on himself FOREVER"
Well, I don't know of any bird who will stay on a finger more than half a second if he doesn't want to. And if he also preens, this is a good sign indeed!

"He currently is sitting on top of my laptop while typing this, still preening, but when I move my finger to him he hisses and lunges to bite me!"
Same thing here, if he wasn't interested at all in you, he wouldn't sit there, I can guarantee you that.
I am not sure whether he's still clipped or his wings are whole now, but even if he was still clipped, he would not sit around you if he didn't want to.

His toys might scare him if they are too big or if he wasn't used to them growing up; or maybe he is one of those who don't like toys. Two of my birds are like that. 
Try giving him paper. Twist or crumple a small sheet of paper and see if he is interested. Shredding paper is a big favourite, usually.

He doesn't hate you! I think he is very nervous. Let him do his thing, he will get better! I think he is interested in you, but he won't come to you unless you stop chasing him. 

Many tiels hate fingers. Try to offer him a flat hand instead of a finger. You never know, he might feel less threatened. Does he bite if your hand is covered? Try cover your hand completely with your sleeve, see if he likes it more when he doesn't see your skin.

All the best of luck, don't give up on him! He will be your best friend once he feels safe 

PS Two of my tiels come from shops and once they adjusted to the new home they have become awesome pets. Takes a while but so worth it!


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Agreed with everything above.


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## Camilla18 (Jul 21, 2013)

Thanks guys! So, I should just start all over then? Just leave him alone and keep the cage door open and read to him. He does eat sunflower seeds so I can try that... And yeah his wings are growing back and he does fly really well again now. I'm absolutely in love with birds, always has been, but just never knew the proper way.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

I would try taking all the sunflower seeds out of his food bowl for now and set them aside...if he really loves them and they are a high-value treat for him, you may be able to use them for training. Or, he may just not be very food motivated and you might have to find alternative ways.

I would just leave the cage door open, yes. As for his wings...if he flies skillfully, you don't have to worry about him flying into walls and such. The only issue would be getting him back in the cage when he's out and you need him to go in, which is where food bribery would come in.

With my skittish girl, she has learned that when the lights dim and I start putting other birds in the cage, it's bed time. She goes in on her own or she sleeps on top of the cage. Luckily I can let her do that. 

Another thing that could work is just waiting for him to go back in on his own when he gets hungry. Most often, they will after a couple of hours. But it definitely helps to have perches outside the cage so they have a good way to get in and out.

I definitely think it's worth giving him the chance to be flighted. It will give him the choice of when to come to you and put him in control. They like that. But if he mistrusts you, it could be months before he's ready to come to you. Astrid was grabbed a lot in her previous home, and she HATES hands. It took her three months to fly to me. Now we have progressed to the point where she does not fear me -- she comes over to me quite frequently. She even plays and preens next to the dreaded hands. Sometimes she nibbles them (ouch!). But I cannot EVER reach for her or ask for a step-up, even with a stick. Too many bad associations. Sometimes I can get her to step on a perch for millet if she thinks it's her idea. I love her the way she is and I will be perfectly happy if our relationship never progresses further. She's a free spirit and it's awesome having her accept me at all. But I keep hoping that one day she will learn to trust ALL of me, even my hands.


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## 22caity22 (Oct 3, 2013)

I think starting all over may be a good idea  move slowly, show him you have backed off and you're going to do it on his terms. I have little doubt it is incredibly upsetting and frustrating but one member on here has even managed to begin taming two very sour birds! It's always possible, it just takes time - lots of time!!! Along with that, some birds are hands off birds like moonchild's Astrid, even so, moonchild has managed to befriend her and spend time with her now, regardless of whether she is hands on or not.

If you want to clip his wings again, that really is your choice. It doesn't cause the bird pain and it does sometimes help with behaviour. Generally with untame or aggressive birds, the rule of thumb is a clipped bird will be easier to handle. But it is all a matter of the individual bird. If he has been this way with clipped wings though, give him a go at being flighted  I personally prefer birds to be flighted, he might be one of those birds that prefer it 

So my final note!!!! Stay close to his cage with the door open and let him come out on his own terms. It might be a few weeks, possibly months but chances are, he will grow curious. Birds actually do seem to enjoy human company when the humans are kind to them, plus we offer wonderful treats and scritches in places no one else can seem to get haha. Best of luck!


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## scootergirl762 (Aug 27, 2013)

Camilla18 said:


> Thanks guys! So, I should just start all over then? Just leave him alone and keep the cage door open and read to him. He does eat sunflower seeds so I can try that... And yeah his wings are growing back and he does fly really well again now. I'm absolutely in love with birds, always has been, but just never knew the proper way.


That sounds like a good start - if you can get him to eat the sunflower seeds from you, start by holding one still, through the bars. I would just sit by his cage as much as possible. I would read to Stewie from whatever I was reading - just letting him get used to my voice. Also, I was more successful perch training both of my birds - they still get "cage amnesia" with step up, but once they are out, voila, their memory returns. The perch helped because they were really scared of my hands, but more familiar with a perch. I just would put my hand in the cage with the perch and just have them step up, put them back, step up etc. Do that if you can quite a few times a day - always moving slowly when you put your hands in the cage. I think you'll notice an big difference in his behavior now, because I think you'll be more aware of his cues. Most importantly - a lot of us have the two steps forward one step back thing - don't let it discourage you! This is an awesome resource for information and mostly - support! Keep us posted!


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## Camilla18 (Jul 21, 2013)

I put a perch on the cage door so when I open it, he will have a chance to climb on it to be out of his cage  Worked out fabulous! His food doesn't have sunflower seeds actually so I'll go buy some for treats. 
My work desk is always next to him so I'll will def try again. I've never had the support like from you guys before! Thank you so much!


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## Camilla18 (Jul 21, 2013)

is there any tips for favorite tiel treats!? and how to introduce toys better to him


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## CaliTiels (Oct 18, 2012)

For treats, put out a small display of assorted goodies, vegetables, sunflower seeds, millet. Let him chose what he likes.

For toys, what I did for skittish birds was hang a few near the cage for a while so they can see it. Then after a while hang it on the outside of the cage, then try to put them inside


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## Camilla18 (Jul 21, 2013)

He doesn't seem to like veggies which makes me super worried! 
Should I chop them in pieces for him to make it easier to eat? I bought a formula of seeds that makes up for the lack of veggies but I hate giving him false stuff... about the wings, I hated clipping them but only did so because it would make him more dependent on me. However, since one of the commenters said he wouldn't stay with me unless he wanted to, and able to, then he does have some bit of trust for me. 

When I force(ed now) him out, he would try to fly away once in awhile (flies pretty well now) but after I easily catch him he does sit with me. (Gives me so much hope) 

I found a huge list of veggies for tiels, but again should I chop them?


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## Camilla18 (Jul 21, 2013)

Oh, and put them separate from his regular feed? 
the way I got him to eat pellet foods was to leave him that ONLY option so when he was hungry he HAD to eat that... so perhaps I could do that for him again with the fruit and veggies.


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## thewandererw (Aug 22, 2011)

I agree with every thing said so far. I have two birds a budgie who took a year to tame and a lot of time. And I have a cockatiel who I''ve had for 5 months I'm still working on tameing. Just please don't let this bird fly free he will be eaten by a cat or dog. Or he will freeze to death this winter I don' t mean to be mean too you but this will happen if you let him free.if you still feel after giving it more time the bird is just not right for you let us know and maybe someone would be kind enough to help you out.


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## Camilla18 (Jul 21, 2013)

Thanks for your help guys! Of course I wouldn't let him fly away, I'd be so guilty


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## Camilla18 (Jul 21, 2013)

Photo of him


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## Finley13 (Oct 24, 2013)

I commend you for coming here to seek help rather than letting him go or giving up and having him land in bad hands. I agree with everyone, and my only other comment is to try Cheerios for treats! Finley goes crazy for them and they are nice because they can bite off pieces so one piece can last a whole training session. And I strongly agree with eating (or pretending to eat) whatever veggies you'd like him to eat. Finley would not touch anything but seeds, pellets, and millet for a good couple of weeks because he had never had anything else. I started pretending to eat them and also give them to him while he's out of his cage since he is more inclined to go for them when he's away from his regular food. He now loves just about everything: snap peas, broccoli, lettuce, squash, etc.


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## Mezza (Feb 19, 2013)

He's so cute.

With his veggies try cooking up beans like lentils, split peas, mung bean etc mixed with wild rice and letting it cool down then give it to him.

I always go on about Skiddles bean mash because its such a hit. And others have tried it as its worked for them.

You could try capsicum insides (the seedy bit) but just be prepared for a mess. LOL!


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## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

I was just thinking about your tiel who seems not to like treats... In my experience, nervous birds won't eat treats. Same birds, more relaxed, will enjoy treats very much 
Top of the treat list is usually millet spray. It's cheap and if your buddy likes it you will be able to use it later on to train him, if you like.
My tiels love almonds, hemp seeds, and go literally bonkers for rice cakes, the plain flat round ones. Can't give it regularly but as a rare treat it shouldn't hurt them. Make a hole in the middle, pass a little rope through it and hang it somewhere in the cage. My guys spend a good hour trying to demolish the hanging rice cake :lol:
Avoid toys with mirrors for the moment.
Small simple toys. There is an awesome thread here where people show their setups. I am always amazed at the creativity, and get new ideas every time i look. recommended!

omg he has such a cute little face! Charlie you are a pretty boy


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

He is super cute!
You've gotten a lot of good advice so far. Hopefully you will make some good progress with him soon.


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## Amz (Apr 10, 2013)

You sound like you're off to a great start. He's very handsome!  Keep us updated. Maybe you should make another thread to serve as his training journal?


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## Camilla18 (Jul 21, 2013)

Thanks! I think I'll start off with trying to get him to eat veggies and new treats to see which is his favorite then use that as his training treat. I'll start a new thread once I've done that


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