# Opinions on Non-clipped and free roam birds?



## Payton Leeroy (Sep 10, 2012)

So, every time I come to this forum I notice a lot of people talking about clipping wings and keeping birds safely locked in their cages nearly all the time. I'll admit, I didn't do either of these things with Little Dragon when I got him. In fact, I still haven't. LD's cage is always open, and he's free to fly anywhere in the house, though after a few days of exploring he keeps to his cage or one of the two play areas I've set up for him, one on my headboard and one by the window next to my bed. He'll hang out in the bathroom only if I bring him in, and he's only in the kitchen if he was already sitting on my shoulder when I go in to wash the dishes [course, he can see me in the kitchen from his cage, so he's not too stressed when I'm in there.]

I've noticed that LD pretty much follows me where ever I go. He'll call a few times when I walk out of the room we were in, and if I whistle back he'll usually follow after, and if I don't he tends to settle down and do his own thing while he waits for me to come back. He occasionally sleeps in his cage, but is more likely to sleep on my headboard where he can see me when he wakes. His food and water are at his cage though, so he ends up flying between my bedroom and the livingroom a couple times a day if I'm not sharing my own meals. I eat so much healthier now that he's around!

Sure, I have to be wary when I'm cooking, close the outside door quickly when I go in or out, keep the toilet seat down, and there's always the very small chance that my dog will suddenly decide that instead of pretending the bird doesn't exist he may want to play with LD, and I have more than one area to clean up after him, but I truly do feel that the benefits strongly outweigh these risks. 

He's gotten much stronger, much more capable with his flight, he's confident, likes me of his own free will instead of having to rely on me just to get from one place to another, and he doesn't do much screaming [usually just a little when I go to do something without him.] He's more alert, though the poor old guy still does sleep an awful lot with all the healing he's been doing. He rarely bites since he always has the option of flying away, and even when he does it's very gentle. In less than two months he's gone from being completely afraid of my hands to happily being petted, and from not being able to fly even two feet to being able to turn in a 3x3 foot room and fly through another room to land on a single branch. He doesn't seem to get bored, even though he ignores his toys nearly all the time, and if he wants a different environment he simply has to fly to one of his other areas.

So, for the other people who have tried free flight, what is your opinion on it, for those who are against it, why are you? What makes others decide to keep their birds caged all the time or even clipped?


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

I don't keep my birds caged, and two of them came to me clipped without me having any say in it. One came to me fully flighted, and I left him that way for a while but ultimately made the decision to give him a temporary light clip in order to get him used to my hands. I regret it a tiny bit, but I think it probably did him more good than harm in the long run. His wings will grow back soon, and now he's so much less wary of my hands and I feel as though we understand each other better. He trusts me more, so when he becomes fully flighted again I think we will have a better relationship.

I'm looking forward to the day! Unfortunately, I'm not able to let my birds have free flight in the whole apartment because of my cats. But I do intend for them to at least have one room to themselves.


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## Payton Leeroy (Sep 10, 2012)

Yeah, I've decided a loooong time ago that I can never own a cat. Even if it wasn't for the dog or my bird or the rodents, I have a waterbed, and I'd never declaw a cat, so it really just wouldn't work. It's nice that they at least have a room. Do they get to look out the window? I keep a bird feeder where he can watch it. It's fun to watch him try and talk with the birds outside.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

I got my cats before my birds (didn't even know I was a "bird person" until recently!). It makes life frustrating, but I do love them as much as my birds. I'm still trying to find ways to make it work as best as possible. To be honest, my tiels are really lazy, and even when Juju was fully flighted he only really made use of that when flying to or away from me. He's not keen on exercise or really doing much of anything. I had a free-standing perch by the window for the longest time, and even when I placed him on it he showed no interest. I'm hoping that once everyone is all settled in, I can entice them to it again. It seems like it would provide some welcome mental stimulation. But right now they are just attached to their cage, or seem content to sit with me at my computer and attack things on my desk.


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

My birds are both flighted and get free reign of my room when Im in it Ive set up a play shelf for them and they hang out on the tops of my book shelf and desk. I cant allow mine to free fly outside my room unless Im super careful and vigilant as I have a family that is not always bird safety conscious and a jack russel that I dont trust with small animals  but my room is a safe space for the birds and I love that they can be independant and do their own thing and it makes me feel way more special when they fly to me for attention on their own free will I understand why some people clip their birds and both of mine were previously clipped but I love mine flighted and Im sure they love it too!

Ive bird proofed my room pretty well but I still wouldnt trust mine in my room while im not home ( I still have wires and stuff they could get into if not supervised) so they are caged when Im not home but Im home a lot during the day and they have a large flight cage so I dont feel bad about caging them when Im not home.


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## Nicci_ (Aug 28, 2012)

We had Chase clipped when we got him. Dad always had his birds wings clipped when he was younger. Chase can still fly really well even with his wing done, so we decided we won't cut them this time. He's even taken to flying into his cage when he has had enough. We don't let him out all day, but he gets at least 3 hours a night out with me, and most of the day out with my parents.
Storm also came with his wings clipped, and at this point I'm probably going to keep his wings clipped until he's a bit more tame. His cage is open all day with my mum, but when he moves in with Chase, he'll follow the same routine.


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## daverohmfeld (Oct 26, 2012)

I think wing clipping is a good idea personally. If a bird gets out of the house its much easier to get them back. No matter how safe you are about a fully flighted bird, it can still easily get free.


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## Oni (Feb 20, 2012)

Personally I prefer flighted. I got upset when a tiel I was buying was clipped in store prior to me bringing it home as she spent the next few months crash landing into everything until her feathers grew back.

There are pros and cons, I don't think either is always right. It can depend on someones personal situation. A clipped bird has more chance of being overweight as walking doesn't burn as much energy as flying and a lighter clip that allows the bird some flight put strain on the respiratory system as they have to work over time to actually fly. It also doesn't guarantee bonding if a bird genuinely doesn't like you 

...but at the end of the day clipping may be right for handicapped birds or in other situations


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## Ghosth (Jun 25, 2012)

Mine are out all day long unless I'm going to be out of the house.

They are both clipped, but that does not stop them from getting from point a to point b. It just keeps them off the ceiling. In fact they can get from cage, to play area with several high perches without flying at all if they choose. 

Fully flighted and free to fly is fine, but it can also be very dangerous.
Also it is harder to teach a bird that is fully flighted and able to fly anywhere. Especially something that it may not be fond of or is scared of.

In fact if one of them should fall, there is a shelving unit built into the playstand that acts like a 5" tall ladder letting them climb right back up on top.
The light clip keeps them from landing on the window blinds across the room, the tops of the windows, the top shelf of the bookcase, etc. 

In my case they don't leave this room because there are 2 cats outside their door. I don't think either one would actually eat a bird, but they could easily play with them to death.

Not everyone however has a safe room or safe house.


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## Oni (Feb 20, 2012)

Mine aren't free range so to speak but I do let them out under minimal supervision on a regular basis and let them just frolic around the bedroom for several hours. It's fairly tiel proof and I'm always listening out for trouble. If I'm going out they go back in the cage. 

They have dropped behind the bookcases before but they are the half sized ones and I've deliberately pulled them forwards so that the bird can just walk out again. They don't always work it out so I go up when I hear them calling and 'rescue' them 

Anywhere with a small gap they could get stuck in I filled up with broken down cardboard boxes from when we moved in


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## TMz (Aug 7, 2012)

I have always just opened Toi and Mar's cage in the morning and shut it at night, they only have my room though, they cant have the house because I have 8 dogs and many of them would be happy for a tasty birdie snack lol, they are also kept fully flighted, I only clip them if they have to be around my dogs for whatever reason, as they dont panic when they are clipped, so the dogs dont get exited and try to eat them lol


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

my birds have their own room , but there is only one vent that circulates downstairs. i leave their door open during the day so they can get the benefit of the ac unit and i close their door at night and let them out to play as long as i'm home. 

i am really uncomfortable with the idea that they could potentially get into trouble if i'm not there to go down and check on them every once and a while.

and when they were upstairs, they were clipped bc i had scrapes and cuts and dangerous places for them to land all over. once things were moved downstairs, everyone was fully flighted and can lap around their bedroom happily.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

My birds have their own room. I let them out most days, depending on when I work. I clip some and others are free flighted, it depends on their attitude whether they get clipped or not. But all of my birds learned to fly before I clipped them.


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## Son (Oct 29, 2012)

Our bird isn't clipped (the only birds I've ever clipped are chickens) and he is out of the cage a lot (well, the door is left open). However, if we are out, he goes back into the cage just in case he falls down behind something and can't get out. Also, he is in the cage while we're cooking and if the fire is lit...


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## CaitlinT (Jan 21, 2011)

Both my birds are and have always been fully flighted and live in my room due to my family having cats, they get out for a half hour in the morning and on average three hours when I get back from school but sometimes more sometimes less. I love having them flying around my room and both of them are cuddly and reasonably well trained.
I believe in most situations clipping is unnecessary and mainly done for the convenience of the human not the health of the bird - I'm not completely condemning clipping as I do see that is certain situations it may be necessary such as with disabled birds or temporary changes in circumstance ect.
I feel, personally, the greatest crime bird owners commit is to clip a young bird before it has even learnt to fly, it robs them of their natural tendencies. It's excused as an easier way of taming birds but it just seems a brutal way of fast forwarding bonding to reduce the effort. I could go on and go about the mental and physical health effects it can have on very young birds. But I'll stop there, both sides can all be looked up more squarely online.
It is a personal choice and there are many valid reasons for the decisions people make surrounding this debate. But please THINK BEFORE doing it, it doesn't have to be 'standard practice' and every single bird owner should look up the facts every time they consider clipping, it's not as simple or superficial as cutting nails.


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## hysteriauk (Jun 24, 2012)

Zippy came to me flighted , I personally prefer birds that way but i understand why it is done .
Zippy enjoys having a fly around before he settles down so I don't think I could take that away from him now . He is fully supervised when he is out tho I did fall asleep today and i awoke to feel zippy walking up and down my body as if to say ' wake up '


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

I had my tiels' wings clipped once when they had to spend two weeks at my bird sitter's, and I said never again. They were depressed looking and miserable. They are both fully flighted now (molt took care of it) and I enjoy watching them fly. Their cage is open all the time as they love spending their time on my shoulders or perching on the couch with the family. If I go in another room, they usually follow. I only put them in the cage and close the doors when I am out for a few or more hours.


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## Korvia (Aug 3, 2012)

Most of my guys came to me clipped already, aside for my one (Winter). Winter has disabilities, so I've chosen to clip her for her own safety. I rent my place so as much as I'd love to I can't give them full reign of my place, but they do get the living room and all but one are inclined to sit with me anyway. I also have a roommate who forgets to close windows and doors, so if mine were all flighted I would have lost them long ago.

I'm not really for clipping or not clipping, I think it's really up to the person, if you feel you are able to train a flighted bird then great, if not, that's okay too.


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## Sunshinebird (Oct 3, 2012)

Sunshine was clipped when I got him. He is very clumsy when flying, and has broken all his baby tail feathers  

I'm anxious for his first molt so that I can leave him flighted.


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## nassrah (Feb 27, 2012)

We have mesh in our windows all over the apartment , so William and Syd can roam everywhere.Even so,we do supervise them to avoid any mesh chewing and escaping.When we are home,they do get a lot of hours out of the cage.If we are at work,the cage sits next to a window,where they can see ,listen and call other birds,apart from playing with their toys.Personally,we prefer the cockatiels to be flighted,they exercise a lot,burn calories,breathe properly.We had huge problems with our William coming to our house with his wings clipped before we got to know him ,so we didnt want our Syd to have his done.Our birds will never be clipped,thats for sure.


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## Rizq (Jun 9, 2012)

I only have one that I keep clipped right now (Sweetie Bird), and that is because he can be rather nasty, to me and the other birds. I still have a couple parrotlets that were clipped when I got them that haven't yet molted and grew their feathers back, but most of my birds can fly. I love seeing them fly around the room. Of course, there are a few I can't let out because I would have to net them to catch them and one pair would fly to us and bite us, but they are breeding birds and not tame. Breeders do get out to stretch their wings if they are tame and able to be caught without undue stress, though, as long as they aren't currently nesting. I think it is healthy for them, mentally and physically.

I do understand the choice to clip though. If I had kids I would definitely clip the wings simply because it is too easy for little ones to not pay attention and then a bird flies out an open door or into a ceiling fan or whatever. Mine mostly stay in the office/bird room anyway, but once we have a safe fan in the living room (I don't trust hubby to pay attention either  ) they can come out there, too.

Beyond the wing clipping issue, I wouldn't just allow my birds free reign all the time. First of all, for me, they don't all get along. The parrotlets can be rather nasty to other birds and especially each other. Secondly, I know the tiels love to chew wires and drywall and it would be hard, given our setup, to completely block access to wires and the walls.


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## bubbleslove (May 27, 2012)

I have my 4th Tiel now. My last 3 always were clipped and had an 'Open' cage

My present Tiel can fly fully. He has an open cage. 

When I walk out the room he flies to my shoulder if called else I instruct him him to STAY to which he replies "be a good boy"

I find its working much better having a fully flighted bird. He's happy which in turn makes me happy.

Yes accidents can happen but if fully flighted they probably can get themselves out of trouble too and more chance of escaping a predator e g pet Cat or Dog. Altho I don't think having them in the s.e household is a good idea. I wouldn't take the chance anyway.


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## Rizq (Jun 9, 2012)

I have dogs, but they are NOT allowed in the bird room and spend most of the outside while I work anyway. If dogs are in the house, bird room door is closed. Having birds and dogs is perfectly manageable if you are careful. I would imagine the same with cats, but I don't have cats so can't speak to it personally.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> Having birds and dogs is perfectly manageable if you are careful. I would imagine the same with cats, but I don't have cats so can't speak to it personally.


Same here. The dog isn't allowed upstairs (where the bird room is) and the birds can't come downstairs if the dog is out (which is most of the time. But her bedtime is before the birds lol.) Cats are harder but that's still manageable and we have several members who have bird/cat homes.


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## Oni (Feb 20, 2012)

Nobody but me and hubby is allowed in our room. Small catch on the outside to shut it if we're not in. Cat free roams most of the house but she is not allowed in the bedroom unless the birds are caged and she is under strict supervision - she'd love to get her claws into one of them!  Kids are also only allowed in if mummy or daddy takes them in regardless of if birds are caged or not (our kids are very young).

For the time being cat is shut out the front room where the cockatoo is for 1/2 the day and the other half she is strictly supervised while he is in the cage NEVER when he is out (again we close the door with a small catch if he's out to stop kids accidentally opening it etc). She would also like a go at the cockatoo if she got the chance but behaves supervised  She doesn't notice so much though as she goes and sleeps in her cat tower in the other room for large chunks of the day


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## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

Smokey is the first bird that i've ever clipped the wings of. He was kept in a very small cage for the first 7 years of his life before i got him and he was clumsy, flying into things from lack of practice and extremely agressive. 

We've made a lot of progress and i'm going to allow him to become flighted again. He knows where the boundaries of the room are and can fly a little. The only time his cage is closed is at night time, when the budgie wants out (She's old and usually only flies around once then goes back in for a nap) or when i'm cooking as it's open plan.

My living room door is always open apart from in the winter (to keep the heat in) but neither of my birds ever ventured out the living room door even when Smokey was flighted.


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## Payton Leeroy (Sep 10, 2012)

It's nice to see so many people with flighted birds speaking up, and to see how many of these birds get at least a little free range.

I did want to touch on the worries about birds loose with other animals. I will NEVER own a cat, in large part because I do own my free flighted bird. However, I know my dog, and I have spent a long time supervising him not only with this bird, but with a bird my dad used to have who would go out of his way to pick on my dog [pulled his tail while he was sleeping even!] and even birds outside. He is very good about ignoring birds [well, little birds. Ducks and geese are fun to chase, but if they don't fly or run he ignores them too] Payton flat out ignores Little Dragon almost all of the time, as long as LD doesn't get too close to him. I've seen LD fly in a circle around him and land right beside him and my dog hardly even glanced over to him. I've also seen LD go to check out what my dog was eating and my dog back away and leave the food behind. There has only been one incident of my dog even trying to touch LD, and that was when he had worked himself into a frenzy because a friend was over teasing him with lights [he's a little insane about trying to chase moving lights, and I actually go out of my way to make sure he doesn't see any] and LD flew right over him when the light was on the ceiling. He does the same with all of our current rodents, and has once had a hamster that he simply adored and tried to take care of like it was a tiny puppy. My dog is exceptional though, and I've worked with him for years to get him to the point where I can read him this well.

Now, I'm not saying that there isn't the chance that I could come home one day and my dog wouldn't have decided that cockatiel could be tasty. However, I feel, with what I know about my dog, that it's a VERY small chance that this will happen. However, every animal is an individual, and when I do end up getting a second dog the bird might have to have scheduled times to come out while that dog is in another room or something. I would not trust most of the dogs I dogsit around him [the one possible exception being the dog who lives with three birds, and even then I think it would be only when supervised]. It's all about knowing your animals and deciding what is best for them and for you.

And that got super long without really needing to be...:blush:


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## PickleBird (Dec 10, 2008)

*Free Flight*

My birds get up around 2 most days...they would love to come out earlier..and some mornings they do but they like to stay up late so they can't have it both ways. Anyway, they are free from the time they get u until the time they go to bed to fly around the loft. They usually hang out with their toys and play in their cages and will occassionally fly to me to hang out when I am here. I leave them at times and they are fine. They get very excited when I come home 

When I'm out I always leave music on for them, give them plenty of food and water and make sure doors and drawers are shut. No open trash bags etc..

Been doing it this way with them for almost 5 years. We have a routine.
I find birds like routines.


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## cknauf (Aug 27, 2012)

We have cats and dogs (including a very prey-driven dog), so leaving birds unattended is impossible. The birds are kept in a separate room, but accidents happen and the dogs have managed to open the door at least once. Plus we have parakeets and parrotlets as well as cockatiels, and both parakeets and parrotlets are known to bully cockatiels. Plus if we left just the cockatiels out, one of Pippin's favorite activities is terrorizing the parakeets through the bars.

Our birds are molting out their clips right now, and I'm undecided whether we'll reclip them or not. Our parakeets are unclipped, and parrotlets are so tiny that clipping isn't very effective. But Denali is very clumsy, and his crashes have gotten more serious since his flight feathers have grown in. I'm trying to work with him to build up his body control, but if he doesn't improve he'll need to be clipped again to prevent him from hurting himself. I'm undecided on Pippin--I've seen absolutely no behavior change between her being flighted and clipped.


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## clawnz (May 28, 2009)

I may as well chip in!
I have 6 free flighted Cockatiels 24/7 live in an all glass conservatory and have access to the kitchen, dinning room and lounge.
They do whatever they want and never seem to get into trouble?
These guys have come from a rescue, 2x from aviary's, one was born here, one was rehomed. and one was hand reared. So only Zinny was born into dealing with glass.
Yet they are all doing very well and none of the perceived problems have happened.
Some birds will never fly well and I feel this is due to being clipped at an early age and not allowed to make the brain connections to be able to think on the wing.


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## sbarnett (Nov 12, 2012)

Only my tame ones are out, the biters stay in their cage and wouldn't come out if I opened the door. I have mine in the laundry room with one of those instant screen doors on the entrance. My two tame ones get to fly around for a couple hours a day. They have a play area on the washing machine.


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