# First Hatchling!!!



## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Our beautiful normal grey pair Marshall and Lily laid their first clutch of three eggs a few weeks ago and we have our first hatchling today!! My son and I are so excited for this new adventure, there are still two unhatched eggs and I will of course update as they hatch. No pictures yet as we are trying not to disturb the first time parents, but they are diligent in their care. We were able to spy both parents taking turns feeding the chick already after only a few hours. The baby is the tiniest and cutest thing ever and making plenty of noise, looking good now that it is dry and fuzzed up!! We heard it start peeping quietly last night from inside the egg so I was expecting an arrival sometime today and got the call from my son while I was out running errands (getting my brooder supplies actually LOL).I can't wait to be able to snap some photos and share them with everyone! Thanks for listening to a very excited new cockatiel grandmother! Any tips and advice are more than welcome!


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Just spotted a second hatchling!!! Parents are doing a great job sharing feeding duties too!!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Congratulations! Were you able to see the fuzz color and the eye color?

I can see that your male is split to pied and whiteface (this means he's carrying the genes). If your hen is split to either or both of those colors, you will be able to get babies in that color. There are other genes that Marshall could possibly be split to, and if he has any of those genes he can have daughters in those colors.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

OMG I'm so excited that we could have some different coloring!!! Thank you so much! The hen also has a couple of white patches on the back of her neck and the front edges of her wings and spotting under her wings which I read is normal for a female. Both babies are yellow fuzz from what I can tell. Eyes are still closed, the one who I got the best look at the eyes look dark, but not sure if you can tell anything while they are still closed.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

The males head is yellow but he does have white patches on the back of his neck and the front edges of his wings when closed. Here's a few more pics of them.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Both birds are split pied and I believe they're both split whiteface too. Statistically, you can expect 25% pied babies and 25% whiteface babies, with some babies who are both mutations. 

You won't know whether a baby is pied until it starts to feather out. If it has yellow or white pinfeathers in places that would ordinarily be grey, it's pied. Whiteface babies are identifiable the moment they hatch because they have white fuzz instead of yellow fuzz. A baby that's split whiteface will have paler yellow fuzz than a baby with no whiteface gene.

A baby with normal-colored eyes will have huge dark orbs at hatch. Both whiteface and pied babies will have dark eyes like this. But a lutino baby would hatch out with eyes that are the same color as its skin, to the point that it almost looks like the baby doesn't have eyes. If your male is split lutino he could have lutino daughters. 

A plum-colored eye would be a sign of a cinnamon baby, but there's a lot of variation in cinnamon eye color at hatch. My cinnamon babies hatch out with eyes so dark that I can't tell the difference from my normal grey babies. Some cinnamon babies hatch out with eyes so red that they look like lutinos at first, but the eye color darkens after a few days. If Marshall is split to cinnamon or pearl, he could have daughters in those colors. He might be split to pearl, it looks like maybe he has ghost pearling on his wings. There are no visible signs of a lutino split so for that gene you have to wait and see what you find in the nestbox. A cinnamon split can be detected by shining a light into his eye at an angle, looking for a wine red color. 

Here are the expected outcomes for the known splits of your parent birds, from the genetics calculator at http://www.kirstenmunson.com/cockatiels/blue.html If you want to play "what if", you can put in any combination of parent genes that you like.


Mother:Grey Split To Pied Whiteface
Father:Grey Split To Pied Whiteface

male offspring:
6% Pied Whiteface
6% Pied
13% Pied Split To Whiteface
6% Whiteface
6% Grey
13% Grey Split To Whiteface
13% Whiteface Split To Pied
13% Grey Split To Pied
25% Grey Split To Pied Whiteface

female offspring:
6% Pied Whiteface
6% Pied
13% Pied Split To Whiteface
6% Whiteface
6% Grey
13% Grey Split To Whiteface
13% Whiteface Split To Pied
13% Grey Split To Pied
25% Grey Split To Pied Whiteface

Adding up the percents, allowing for rounding, and ignoring splits, the visual results are 56% grey, 19% whiteface, 19% pied, and 6% whiteface pied, split equally between the sexes. These are statistical averages and your actual results may be different. The more babies this pair has, the closer you would expect to come to the average percentages.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Thank you so much for the color information  Can't wait to see what we get. However one of the chicks is quite a bit smaller than the other and is laying on it's side, it was born yesterday. The other chick is larger and quite fat. Should I try feeding the smaller chick and then place it back with the parents or should I try taking it away all together? Let me know your thoughts, I do have handfeeding formula on hand.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Does the smaller chick have any food in its crop at all? If it doesn't, you could give it an assist feeding and put it back in the nest, possibly using Pedialyte to mix the formula instead of plain water. There's a simple recipe for homemade pedialyte at http://birdboard.com/forum/topic/8602093-rehydration-electrolytes/ You want the formula to be rather thin since he's so young.

If the baby hasn't been fed, he may be too weak to beg. But an assist feed will hopefully restore his energy enough to start begging for food, and the parents may start feeding him.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

I just pulled him a few minutes ago, or her maybe, looks to be lutino? Crop was totally empty, I mixed the food 1 to 6 ratio was very watery, gave a bit from a dropper. She started to peep when I pulled her and was a little wiggly. I have not put her back just yet. She seemed like she wanted no more food after a minute or so, Does her crop look full for her size?








https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/428064_10200538340966184_1974786441_n.jpg


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Okay, I just put her back as she was peeping pretty good and wiggling quite a bit. The parents started to clean her and then brood over her. So how long until I should pull her and check on her again. The parents get quite pissed, but seem to recover after the invasion okay. I heard them feeding the other chick after I removed this one.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

One other question, can I refrigerate the mix I made up already or do I need to mix fresh each time. Also, is it normal that it looked like she had a bit of poop stuck to her belly, it had tiny white feathers on it too? Also do those eyes look like a lutino baby to you?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I think she might be a cinnamon baby since the eyes look a little too red for a lutino. You'll know for sure in a few days; if she's cinnamon the eyes will get darker, and if she's lutino they'll stay the same. Either way, she's a girl; you can't get cinnamon or lutino males since mom isn't visual for either of those colors. 

Her skin looks very red in that picture, which is a sign of dehydration, so it's good that you gave her plenty of liquid.

I don't know the exact time interval that you should check again, but if it was me I'd probably wait for a couple of hours. At this age the babies will have very small crops when full; you can see the bulge and the color of the food through the skin, but there won't be a lot there. After a few days the parents will start stuffing the chicks until their crops are bigger than their heads. When the oldest chick is about a week old the parents will start spending most of their time out of the nest, so it will be easier to check on the babies then.

You need to make fresh formula every time. Even refrigerated, there's a risk of bacteria growing in mixed formula that's been sitting around for a while. Just make up a teeny tiny amount and not much will go to waste. With any luck you won't need to mix any more because the parents will have taken over.

Are you sure that it was poop on her belly, or could it be something else? Babies normally don't hatch out completely until they've absorbed the last bit of egg yolk, but if she hatched before this step was finished it might be the reason that she's weak. The parents normally don't feed the chicks for the first few hours after hatching because they're still absorbing nutrients from the egg yolk. 

If you notice that a future chick has hatched without completely drawing in the yolk sac, the article at http://www.justcockatiels.net/assist-hatches.html has information on a technique for helping the baby finish the job. It's down near the bottom of the page in the "what about problems?" section. At the very bottom of the page there are a ton of informational pictures, and the last 8 or so pictures deal with yolk absorption issues. You can take a look and see if this looks similar to your current baby.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Because her eyes are so pink I'm guessing she's a lutino pied. The pied will give the baby jellybean pink eyes. 

I'd wait about two hours then check on her again. See if you can hear the parents feeding her. If they're first time parents, they may not know what they need to do and if she's not crying they wont know to feed her. I had one baby that I had feed every two hours for two days before the parents realized they needed to feed her. Once they took over it was a breeze.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

P.S. Here's a picture of a lutino baby and two dark-eyed babies for comparison purposes. There's also a just-hatched whiteface baby at the bottom of the pile - you can see a little bit of white fuzz near the lutino baby's head. It's possible that your baby's eyes will look lighter after she's absorbed the liquid from the formula. It's possible that I'm wrong, but I suspect that the reason the skin gets so red-looking is because the lack of liquid makes the blood thicker, and the red color of the blood cells looks more intense. A lutino's eyes are actually colorless and the pink or red color that we see is really coming from the blood vessels in the eye.










Also notice the size of the oldest baby's crop! He's old enough to be stuffed like a Thanksgiving turkey.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

One other thing, I had put some bedding in there before they laid the clutch and they removed all of the bedding. Should I wait until the last egg hatches to put in more bedding. I've purchased the CareFresh bedding just yesterday. The first bedding I used was the shredded paper that you can buy at Petco, which I now know is not a good bedding. Is the Carefresh better? I also have some pine shavings, but it's much finer than what you have in your baby photos.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Wood shavings are the best bedding. I use aspen but pine is fine too. Stay away from cedar though! We have an article on nestboxes and litter at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27688 including information on how to foil parents who want to throw the bedding out. I use Kaytee brand shavings; I'm not a big fan of Kaytee's food products but their litter is nice and clean. 

It would be best to put bedding in there right now. Litter will help the babies and egg stay warmer, and it will help the babies' legs develop normally. Without litter they are at high risk of developing splay leg.


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## JennyLynn (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad everything is going good with the babies so far, I love their names !


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Okay, I just did a second feeding, here's the photo from after. This also gives you a better shot of the little piece I said was attached, I've figured out it is the remnant of the yolk sak which is empty. I assume this falls off in a few days kind of like an umbilical cord?









I am basically dribbling the food as she opens the edge of her mouth and her tongue is moving to swallow. Question, I did see some liquid come out of one nostril, so I'm thinking a bit of aspiration happened, she stopped chirping like the liquid prevented it, I absorbed what I could with a Q-tip. She did begin to chirp again. Parents took her back again without issue. I forgot to weigh her on the new scale we bought this afternoon though dang it. She is not quite at the point where she will grasp the end of the dropper so the dribbling seems to work. How do you think her little crop looks?
Here is a photo of the pine shavings I have.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

According to the pictures at http://www.justcockatiels.net/assist-hatches.html the yolk sac should dry up and fall off in 7-10 days. Try to keep it clean and dry, and keep an eye out for signs of infection. 

Her skin color looks a lot better now, and her eye looks like a lutino eye. I don't have any experience with lutino pied babies so I don't know what they look like at this age, but her pupil looks so bright in this picture that she could very well be lutino pied. It'll be easier to judge her eye color after her eyes open. Lutino pied looks pretty much identical to plain lutino, except that she might have plain feathers in some places where you'd expect to see faint yellow and white markings. 

Aspiration is when food gets into the lungs. Hopefully that didn't happen and she just coughed up a little through her nose. Aspiration is dangerous; sometimes it will suffocate the baby on the spot, and other times the food in the lungs will lead to aspiration pneumonia. If she's breathing normally without any wheezing or funny sounds she's probably OK. It's very difficult to feed such tiny babies, and fortunately I've never had to do it myself. 

srtiels' website has a lot of valuable information on dealing with baby-related problems. The article at http://www.justcockatiels.net/assist-feeding-chicks-in-the-nest.html has information on feeding tiny babies. It says "What I do is start with a very dilute formula. Formula can be kept warm by placing in a bowl of water. When they are tiny you can not get a syringe in their mouth, so don't even try to force the tip onto the mouth. This can cause injury. Gently tap the beak with the tip of the syringe. As the chick opens its mouth place the tip of the syringe against the left side of the beak, and let the formula flow slowly onto the tongue. Watch that the chick is swallowing before you give it more. When the chick stops swallowing, stop releasing formula from the syringe. Have a tissue placed in your hand on the other side of the head to soak up the excess overflow of formula. This helps to reduce the risks of aspiration. ONLY feed the chick a small amount and make sure it is crying when you put it back in the box. The crying is the stimulant to hopefully encourage the parents to feed. Check on the chick every few hours, and assist feed if needed."

When it talks about the left side of the beak, this will be on your right if the baby is facing you. It's important to aim the food in the correct direction, so that it will go down the esophagus into the crop and not down the trachea into the lungs.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

P.S. The litter picture wasn't included in your post.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

BTW here's an updated calculation from the genetic calculator. I'll let you figure out the total percentages for each different visual color:


Mother:Grey Split To Pied Whiteface
Father:Grey Split To Pied Whiteface {X1: Lutino}

male offspring:
3% Pied Whiteface Split To {X1: Lutino}
3% Pied Whiteface
3% Pied Split To {X1: Lutino}
3% Pied
6% Pied Split To Whiteface {X1: Lutino}
6% Pied Split To Whiteface
3% Whiteface Split To {X1: Lutino}
3% Whiteface
3% Grey Split To {X1: Lutino}
3% Grey
6% Grey Split To Whiteface {X1: Lutino}
6% Grey Split To Whiteface
6% Whiteface Split To Pied {X1: Lutino}
6% Whiteface Split To Pied
6% Grey Split To Pied {X1: Lutino}
6% Grey Split To Pied
13% Grey Split To Pied Whiteface {X1: Lutino}
13% Grey Split To Pied Whiteface

female offspring:
3% Pied Whiteface Lutino
3% Pied Whiteface
3% Pied Lutino
3% Pied
6% Pied Lutino Split To Whiteface
6% Pied Split To Whiteface
3% Whiteface Lutino
3% Whiteface
3% Lutino
3% Grey
6% Lutino Split To Whiteface
6% Grey Split To Whiteface
6% Whiteface Lutino Split To Pied
6% Whiteface Split To Pied
6% Lutino Split To Pied
6% Grey Split To Pied
13% Lutino Split To Pied Whiteface
13% Grey Split To Pied Whiteface


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Okay, I will stick to feeding on her left side. Everything else you mentioned I am doing so that's a yay for me  I do make sure she is peeping when I put her back in. She's feisty for a tiny little thing. Thanks for the color update too, I can't wait to see how they turn out. Let me know about the litter and I'll put it in there right away, boy are they gonna be pissed at me LOL! Here's the litter picture http://www.westcoastgermanshepherds.com/Birds/litter.JPG


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

That litter looks OK to me. I'm not too sure of the scale, but it looks like the pieces are too big to inhale and too big for the babies to eat when they get older. To be on the safe side, compare your shavings to these pictures, which use a penny for size comparisons:

Too fine: http://s525.beta.photobucket.com/us...s/bedding-fine-shavings.jpg.html?sort=6&o=217

Good: http://s525.beta.photobucket.com/us...dding-coarse-plain-pine.jpg.html?sort=6&o=218


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Here's a photo to show scale -


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

That does seem a bit fine, and it would be best to get something coarser before the babies get old enough to start nibbling on it. But as long as it doesn't have fine crumbs that could be an inhalation hazard, I think it's better than nothing for right now. If it does have fine crumbs, you can use a colander to help sift them out.

The usual recommended depth of bedding is 2 1/2 to three inches. But since srtiels' picture collage warned that eggs can sink in fine bedding, it might be best to use a much shallower depth until you can get some coarser shavings, say an inch or so. That will probably be safer than a deep layer, and will still be an improvement over a bare floor. If you tamp it down good, that will help reduce the risk of anything sinking in it.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

It will be interesting getting it in there with the parents in there, they will not go out of the nest at the same time. Marshall is the only one that will try to actually bite and he does not bite hard at all so I should come out unscathed LOL. Should I remove both chicks and the third egg while I bed the box or just work around everyone? I think I should remove at least the chicks as the parents can make a bit of a raucous.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The best way to get parents out of the nest is to open the lid and quickly scoop them toward the doorway, using either your hand or a plastic spatula depending on how brave you are. You don't want to give them time to jump around trying to bite you, trampling on eggs and babies in the process.

But before you do that, have some kind of container available (bowl, box, basket etc) with some pine shavings or paper towels in it. Also have a hand towel available. After you've ejected the parents from the nest, shove the hand towel in the doorway so they can't come back in. Then put the babies and eggs in the container so they'll be safe and cozy while you fix up the nestbox. When the nestbox is ready, put the babies and eggs back inside and unplug the doorway so the parents can come back in.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

P.S. You want to make a little bowl-shaped hollow in the middle of the nestbox to hold the babies and egg. The rest of the bedding should gently slope downhill from the nestbox walls toward the center. The reason for this is that the babies will leave their little hollow and back up toward the wall to poop. The slope toward the center makes it easier for them to safely get back to where they belong. A baby that gets lost on the way back will get chilled if it isn't rescued quickly, and that can be deadly.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Okay, well I got bit once, but not bad, scooped the babies to safety and bedded the nest as good as I can. Tomorrow I will buy new shavings and really do it up for them  Here's a photo of the two together and then one of the larger chick. I cleaned up the little one after her feeding with a warm wet q-tip as she had some poop on the side of her head  She's still feisty though and did eat...gonna be a long night


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm concerned that the little one is still lying on her side instead of standing on her feet with her head plonked into the floor like the older one does. The older chick is using the normal stance, and the parents won't be able to feed the little one unless she starts standing this way too. The babies beg for food by lifting their head off the floor and up toward the parents, and a baby that's lying on its side isn't in a position to do this. If you set her on her feet like the older one, can she maintain this position?


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

I will try at the next feeding, I don't think that she can though as anytime I've been able to spot her in the box she is on her side. Hence the bit of poop on the side of her head. I will feed her as often and for as long as necessary to keep her alive though  I'm a dog breeder so I'm used to a lack of sleep when dealing with newborns LOL. Looks like I better set my alarm clock tonight and bed down the couch


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If she can't stand up, I don't have the knowledge to help you with that. But I can send you to an expert who has raised thousands of cockatiel chicks and solved more problems than anyone I know. srtiels (Susanne) wrote most of the information that I've been linking you to. She's no longer active on this board, but she has her own board and Facebook page at http://icr-unite.phpbb3now.com/index.php and http://www.facebook.com/groups/ICR.unite/ so you can ask for help in one or both of those places.

She lives in Florida where it's currently 1:30 AM so you probably won't get an answer tonight. She's mostly active on the Facebook page because the forum isn't very active yet. But if you post in the Ask Noodles section of the forum you might get a quick answer - that's the baby emergency section, and there's no risk of getting lost in the shuffle.

Parent feeding has important immune-system benefits, and I'm sure that standing in the normal position is healthier for the baby in a lot of ways. So the sooner she can start behaving normally, the better off she'll be.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Okay, I'm encouraged by her progress, when I removed her for this feeding, she was much fluffier, and was really struggling to be in the standing position and was successful, although was on a not flat surface. She really was difficult to feed as she was really fighting me and seemed even stronger than the last feeding, this felt like the big chick did as far as strength goes, but on a smaller scale of course. I was happy to see she was much fluffier as to me it seems that this would be a sign of better hydration and health. The scale my hubby bought today is not digital and it only registered her as weighing one gram, not sure it's possible, but she is the tiniest living thing I've held in my hands besides a lady bug LOL! I'm going to check and feed her through the night and document it here. I foresee it getting difficult as she struggles more and I'll be more sleepy LOL! I appreciate all the help so far. And I've sent a request to join the FB page you sent me. I've been reading up on development and issues that could crop up, that way at least I'll be able to recognize things that could be a problem. Okay, time to try to sleep for a couple of hours, wish me luck in my endeavor!!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

How is the baby doing this morning? I'm glad that she seemed better last night. 

1 gram seems like an unlikely weight since they weigh more than that at hatch (about 3 grams I think but I won't swear to that). But even if your scale is a bit off, it'll serve the purpose as long as it's off by a consistent amount. The important issue is whether the baby is gaining weight, and the scale should tell you that.

Susanne/srtiels generally recommends that you give a baby an amount of food that's 10% of its body weight at each feeding, although I don't know whether that applies to a baby this young. If it does, you might need to adjust a little for the possible discrepancy in the scale.

When the babies are tiny the parents will feed them during the night. If she's managed to stay on her feet, it's possible that mom and dad may have started feeding her.

Edit: If the remaining egg hasn't hatched yet, you can candle it this morning while you're fixing up the nestbox to see how it's doing. There's information on candling at http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/breed-eggcandling.html


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Well she is still with us this morning. I just fed her and have her in the brooder to warm up after she ate. I thought it a good idea to make sure she was plenty warm for digestive purposes along with general purposes. It's hard to gage how warm the nest box is. I had a hard time waking the first time and she went four hours and did not seem as lively as that prior feeding so I felt bad. The this time it was three hours, but her crop still had a tiny bit inside. That first middle of the night feeding she was not struggling to sit up, but is a bit better about it this morning. Although through the night not much in the peeping department. I hope there's not a tiny bit of aspiration going on with her, hard to tell. She really is just the tiniest thing, otherwise this morning she is looking pretty ok and is swallowing the food still. I have her in the setting up position in between the fingers of the glove for a little while to help things along. I'm going to candle that other egg when I put her back in the nest box. I wonder if maybe she's not the third egg and arrived a bit early, hence her tiny size? She hatched only a few hours after the other baby.

Edited to add that she just passed, I was about to go put her back in the nest and she was gone. I hope the somewhat forced upright position isn't what did it, there was some fluid coming out of her beak. So sad, but as I said she was not quite as sparky as she was last night. I'm so sad  Thank you so much for all your help with her. I will keep you posted, going to candle that last egg.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

As I was candling the egg I saw that it had a hole in it with a line, does this look like they tried to assist? I opened it and their was only dried yolk inside with a dark spot, thankfully no dead baby though


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm so sorry to hear that the baby passed. I doubt that the upright position had anything to do with it; that's the normal position for chicks, and I was more concerned about possible problems caused by lying down. I started writing this post before I saw the update, so I'll go ahead and finish it because the information might be useful in the future.

The parents have some control over the timing of hatch. The eggs are laid every other day, and if the parents start incubating immediately that's approximately how the eggs will hatch. But parents will often delay incubation until several eggs have been laid, with the result that several eggs hatch out at about the same time, and this is what they must have done with your two babies. The babies grow VERY rapidly, and it's normal to see a size difference in babies that hatched just a few hours apart.

The little one did hatch a bit early, in the sense that she left the egg before the yolk had been fully absorbed. But if she doesn't have some kind of congenital abnormality, the reason she's so small is that she missed a few meals. She didn't get all her egg yolk to begin with, and then the parents couldn't feed her because she wasn't in the right position for it. A baby that's fundamentally normal and healthy will catch up and be fine once it's being fed well, but maybe this baby wasn't normal. In the last picture, there are odd-looking dark spots on her crop and above her eye. The presence of some food in her crop after three hours may have been an indication of some kind of digestion issue. If you want to learn more about the possible cause of death, it's best to talk to Susanne/srtiels. She's MUCH better at diagnosing these things than we are here.

The parents should be brooding the chick(s) to regulate their temperature. After about a week the parents start spending most of their time out of the nest because the chicks can keep themselves warm at that point, and mom and dad need to work on food collection. Babies normally clump together on top of any unhatched eggs for the first few days, keeping each other warm. Since you have a single baby now, you may need to keep an eye on it to make sure it's staying warm enough when the parents stop brooding, since he doesn't have anyone to clump with. 

This post is long enough so I'll talk about the egg in a separate post.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The empty egg is very odd because that's the sort of straight-line crack that a baby makes when it hatches. Parents don't normally try to open an egg that is completely unpipped, and I doubt that they could make such a straight line if they did try to open the egg. Was the egg cracked in a more or less complete circle so the "lid" could be flipped open? If so, there might be another baby in the nest somewhere.

This next part is kind of gruesome so be prepared. If you find a live baby in the nest, well and good. But if the baby died shortly after hatching it might not look like what you expect. When a baby dies, the parents will often flatten the body. This is an instinctive sanitation measure, since it will dry out faster this way and will be less of a bacteria hazard to the remaining babies and eggs. The body might look more like part of the nest litter than a baby bird. srtiels' article at http://www.justcockatiels.net/where-did-the-baby-go.html has pictures.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

It was a straight line crack and only a third around the shell, if that, but it was pushed in like from the outside. The egg was still closed, so no baby could have gotten out of it. I wonder if they did it because a lack of experience, this is their first clutch. The mother is just under two I think and I have no idea of the father's age. They are being fabulous parents so far though, even with all my disruptions. They both come out one at a time and will eat and drink, etc. They will be in there together most of the time and take turns feeding the chick, they are so gentle and sweet about it and very protective too LOL. These are not tame birds, the male I caught and the female wasn't handled much when she was young the owner said. But they are still fun to have and crack us up all the time. My hubby is not so into them but my 20 year old son and I are totally entertained by them and love them 

Good info to know about the flat dead babies for the future  They haven't removed the other empty shells yet from the nest, I think I will wait until later tonight to change the litter after I buy a better one and at that time do a thorough cleaning of the nest.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The parents usually don't remove the shells, and it's a good idea for the human to take the shells out as soon as the baby has hatched. There's a small risk that an empty shell could get stuck on an unhatched egg and make it difficult/impossible for that baby to hatch out. 

I would guess that this egg got cracked somehow a long time ago since it's had time to get completely dried out inside. The dark spot may have been an embryo that had just started to develop but it died early, either because the egg was cracked and leaking or from some other natural cause. 

An egg that has hatched normally will also have some residue inside including the membrane lining the shell and some brown stuff that's the remnants of blood vessels. So I wasn't sure at first whether this was a hatched egg or something else.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

P.S. One of the benefits of nestbox litter versus a bare floor is that the eggs can roll around like billiard balls on a bare floor, hitting against each other and possibly getting damaged. I don't know whether that could have happened with this egg; the crack is so remarkably straight that I'm not sure what could have done it.

I've looked more closely at the picture and noticed that the crack is on the wrong end of the egg for it to be a hatch. The babies normally hatch out at the big end of the egg and this crack is closer to the small end.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Been gone since this afternoon so my son was in charge of listening for chick being fed, which it was. Here's a photo from me placing it on its side, it was wiggling like crazy but I wanted to get a shot of the crop. Then it got onto it's feet and I snapped another. It's really active and felt good, but looks a little dry maybe? Is there a way to add moisture in the area of the cage/box that would help? I'm going in the morning for the new bedding, I had to be gone most of the day today and did not get to pick any up. Your thoughts would be great, thanks again so much. BTW All the parents are eating is seed and there is some pellets mixed in, but the father really only wants to eat the seed and the mother is a millet addict. I soaked some pellets and put it in another dish but they have not touched it. They've never wanted part of any fruits we've ever offered to them in the past, I don't think they were ever given any as young birds. Any suggestions on something moist that they will find irresistable? Thanks.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The baby looks fine to me! If your parent birds will eat cooked or sprouted grains, that's a good way to provide soft moist food. Whole-grain bread is a good one too, it's Buster and Shodu's favorite baby food. When they have babies in the nest I'll provide torn-up pieces of multi-grain bread several times a day. It goes stale pretty fast if I deliver it all at once. They could eat the stale bread and drink water but they're finicky and like fresh bread better.

Pellets are an excellent baby food so it would be good to work on teaching them to eat pellets for the benefit of future clutches. In the meantime you can give them Nutriberries. They aren't a soft food but they're nutritionally equivalent to pellets, so it's a good way to get vitamins and minerals into the babies. 

There's general information on diet at http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/nutrition-tieldiet.html with a special section on breeding diet at the end. 

BTW cockatiels like to double-clutch and it's difficult if not impossible to prevent them from going for a second clutch. It's very likely that you'll see Marshall and Lily starting to mate again in about three weeks, although they may start earlier than that since they only have one baby in their current clutch; small clutch sizes seem to encourage an earlier start to the next clutch. It's usually fairly simple to prevent them from starting on a third clutch. 

The good news is that they're likely to have a higher success rate with the next clutch because of the improved nestbox bedding. The bad news is that some parents will start plucking their current chicks to encourage them to leave the nestbox, so keep an eye out for that. Sodium deficiency can also lead to plucking but the link above includes information on preventing this.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Day 4 pictures, baby is doing great  Mom and dad love the Nutriberries, still gotta try some veggies and sprouts. New bedding is in, I bought some Aspen bedding. I also bought a salt block and a mineral block, I only put the salt block in the cage, which would you recommend I put in. If they start another clutch I'll definitely remove this chick at handfeeding age and handfeed it. What is your opinion on banding the chick? Neither parent is banded. I was also going to do the blood DNA sexing. What's the best age to do this at, was planning to clip a nail. Thanks.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Interesting side note, I found out yesterday that a client that purchased a puppy from me a while back was one of the top cockatiel breeders years ago, they were in the Oregon and Washington area. They no longer breed and actually sold their bloodlines down here in my area of Southern California.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Banding is good if you are going to be keeping track of babies (that's what the band numbers are for) or going to be showing. I don't band my babies personally, because I don't like bands. I had one hen who had issues with her band and I cut it off, after that, I've cut off every band since. 

You can do DNA sexing any time once they get feathers (pulling feathers off the chest is the easiest way). I don't know how young to clip the nails. Did you happen to keep the egg after the baby hatched? You could send that in as well.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Thanks for the info on banding, I think I may not bother, I was just thinking that in case a baby ever did get lost and someone were to find it, they would know that it did have an owner and may be more likely to try and find the owner of the lost bird  The nail clipping looks to be the simplest and painless method I've seen, will do a little more research to see how many days to do it at. I was not here when they hatched so I don't know which egg belonged to which chick.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

As of ten years ago, California law required that budgerigars had to be banded to be sold in a pet shop. Apparently they didn't require this for any other species, and I don't know whether it still applies to budgies. 
http://pacificamericansingers.org/articles/artpg932.htm
http://www.birdchannel.com/bird-breeders/breeder-business/leg-band-hisotry.aspx

Bands are good for identification and they're required for show birds, but there's a lifelong risk of injury or death if the band gets caught on something. When the parent birds are unbanded, they sometimes view a band on the baby as an unwanted foreign object and they try to remove it, which can be hazardous to the baby. I don't use bands because I think the risks outweigh the benefits. None of my birds that I bought from someone else are banded either.

You can put the mineral block in the cage too. It's great that they love the Nutriberries, that will help the baby's nutrition level a lot.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

I think I will stay away from the banding then, if for some reason some day one was needed I could always do the open bands I suppose. 
Marshall was working on the salt block this evening  I'll add the mineral block inside the cage too.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

You don't want to see him going too crazy on the salt block because he's likely to turn around and feed it to the baby. Too much salt all at once isn't good. If he's really gorging on it, but is willing to eat whole grain bread with a bit of salted butter on it, you might want to let him get his salt that way for a couple of days, and then once he's feeling less salt-deprived you can put the salt wheel back.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

I've only seen him at the block that one time. The baby is doing fabulous today Full crop and head up looking for more when I peeked in the box while mom and dad were out feeding LOL. The little piglet  Tried for a pic but my phone died LOL! Should have eyes opening in the next day or so from what I've read, can't wait!!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It's generally agreed that babies open their eyes at day 7 to 10, but my babies always go for day 7 so that's the norm to me. Most of them fledge at 3 1/2 weeks which is slightly early, but some of them wait until they're a full 4 weeks old. You have a single baby so he's getting ALL the food, and it wouldn't be surprising if he grew up a little bit faster than average.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Here's a pic on day six, can't believe how big he or she is already


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

Aww cute  

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Here is baby at ten days old today


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

He's looking good! He's also looking normal grey so far but it's still really early and we'll know more later.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

So Marshall and Lily just had their first real bath and shower, I've had a bath in their cage before on multiple occasions and for even weeks at a time kept it in there with fresh water but never saw them go anywhere near it. So today I caught Lily trying to bath in the water dish, so I put the bath in and then took out her water dish. She moved into the bath and started to really go at it, then Marshall had to come check things out and started trying to join her, once they were both getting into it I filled up the spray bottle I bought for them and started to spray them, they were totally into it this time, it was quite a sight  They both got pretty wet and I stopped once the did, they seem quite pleased with themselves and hopefully baby will get a little moisture. I'm sure baby is what prompted this today  I'm glad I was able to get them a nice shower and they are happier for it. You should have seen shy little Lily offering up her chest for me to spray and under her wings. Hopefully this earned me some points with them


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Here's our day 12 portrait  I didn't take it out at all yesterday and it was quite hissy today but settled after about a minute  Eyes are fully open now and baby did not appreciate that I forgot to turn off the flash  Any opinions on color just yet?


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## Erinsmom (Sep 7, 2012)

I wanted to add that you should check your state laws. In my state to be able to sell a tiel it must be banded and to get bands you must be registered with the state FIRST as no company can sell them to you until you have your state ID number.

They are beautiful!!


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Thanks, no plans to sell them at this time. This one is going to my friend to join his other pet tiels


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

As far as I can tell, budgies are required to be banded in order to be sold at a pet shop in California, but there doesn't seem to be a requirement for any other species.

Your baby is looking great, and he/she is also looking normal grey at the moment. We'll know more as the rest of the body pinfeathers start to come in.


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## Martybo (Jan 31, 2013)

I love your pictures, and I've learned so much reading this thread. 

Congrats on the grandbirdie.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Two weeks old today


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Looking great! It looks like we can be fairly confident at this point that the baby is normal grey. I see some yellow pinfeathers on the back of the head so he/she is split pied.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Yea and she/he has some pink toes too  And a couple of yellow spots on the back of the head that are pretty big. Here's the 17 day old portrait


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## Korvia (Aug 3, 2012)

aww so cute! I love when they just start to feather up.


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## Sendo (Nov 25, 2012)

He's gorgeous! Bless him


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Three weeks old today


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## Alassejane (Feb 16, 2013)

It's nearly 4:10am here in the UK at the moment and have been up all night reading this entire thread. Congratulations on your bundle of fluff and heart felt sympathy for the little one that didn't make it  The pictures are amazing at how much he/she is coming along. I'm getting so excited myself. My tiels are having their very first clutch and (fingers crossed) we should have some babies in 2 weeks time. Congratulations once again and looking forward to more pictures


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Well my little baby has left the nest three times since yesterday, and insists she is big enough to be out. We covered the whole bottom of the cage with the aspen shavings since she was being very persistent. Her first trip out was on Saturday, so at 24 days old. Now I gotta read up on fledging LOL. Baby is quite fiesty, I'm thinking it may be a girl based on her attitude LOL! She even has attitude with her mother, just like I did LOL.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Here is the little sweetie at 28 days old today. I think we have a girl on our hands, she is the spitting image and attitude of her dear mother Lily  Do you think we can tell it's a female based on her looks?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

All juveniles look like females at first, and males get their adult plumage at the first molt. There is one difference between the sexes though - their wing spots! The method isn't 100% reliable, but you can try wing spot sexing your lovely little chick. There's more information at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=18307


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## nassrah (Feb 27, 2012)

He or She is a real sweetie! Please keep us updeted on the chick s progress Congrats ! X x


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Okay, I checked out the wing spots, they are only on the outer feathers, the feathers close to the body are solid grey. Do you think this is accurate at this age?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The wing spots say it's a boy! The method works best on young birds who are fully feathered and haven't molted or lost any feathers yet, so your little guy is the perfect age for it. The method isn't 100% reliable but it's fairly accurate, so I would assume that this baby is a boy until something happens to indicate otherwise.

BTW you said earlier that he has his mother's attitude. Babies are gentle and relatively subdued at first, but he's likely to be sassier when he's older. It takes a while for boys to find their voice and start singing, but most will do it by the time they're 6 months old.


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Yeah, the spots start pretty far out on the wings, about half of the wingspan is free of spots. So I'm thinking boy too. I'll try to get a pic tomorrow, he's back in the nest for the night. I bought a ladder yesterday as the nest is about 12 inches up and he's making it in and out of the nest perfectly with the new ladder  Has been picking at seeds and millet but still being fed mostly by momma now, so I guess that makes him a momma's boy  Thanks Tielfan, you've been such a great source of help to me


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## WestCoast (Jan 25, 2013)

Here is our little guy, now named Marvin  He is really learning to get around the cage pretty good, perching, climbing the bars and exploring everything. Parents still feed him but he's also eating some seed. He is going to be a big brother soon as they have double clutched, two eggs so far, they were just laid this week, soooo after this I've got to try some hormone control or separation to give them a break. I am telling you though they are the best parents ever. Marshall and Lily both will push eachother away from the food dish, but if Marvin is there Marshall just starts eating right along side him, he's really teaching his boy the ropes. It's pretty cute to watch. Marvin is also starting to really try to find his voice, so cute  Loving this little guy, he will go to his new home in April with my friend, he can't wait to get him. Enjoy the pic of our little guy today at five weeks old.


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