# Huey has kidney failure



## neeliec (Jul 31, 2012)

I took my 28 year old cockatiel to the vet last Friday for the first time in his life. Up until about 2 weeks ago, he was healthy and perky, ate well, and seemed just fine. Then I started noticing little changes, and within a week I knew something wasn't right. I found a doctor in our small town who works with birds, so took Huey in for an exam. 

Blood test results I got Monday indicate kidney failure, which the doctor says is common in geriatric birds. We are doing twice a day fluid therapy - taking Huey to the vet's office each time. In addition, I am giving him water with a syringe several times a day.

This morning's appointment was to include another blood draw, but for some reason they could not accomplish that (my husband took Huey - I have a call into the clinic for clarification). The doctor who initially saw Huey is currently out until next week, but she assured me that there were staff there who could do what she was doing. Techs/assistants have been doing the fluid treatments. 

After the therapy treatment this morning, Huey has been quivering and his little heart is still beating rapidly. He just seems so stressed from these twice daily trips to the vet's office. Once he gets home and has a chance to quiet down, he just sits there, all fluffed up, sleeping. 

I guess my main concern/question right now is....is it worth all the stress and trauma to my little guy to have him hauled in and out of his main cage, into his traveling cage, and then manhandled each day by the staff to inject him and examine him? He doesn't like it when I give him the water via syringe, either.

I am pondering the *quality of life* issue here. The thought of losing him hurts to my soul....we've been together since he was only weeks old. He has always been such a good little trouper and even made a big move with us to Arizona about 6 years ago. 

The vet told me that if the fluid therapy seems to work (the second blood test was supposed to indicate this), that Huey would probably have to continue to have it a couple times a week "for the rest of his life." I just can't picture having to put him through that much stress for the remaining time he has with us.

This is all new to me, and I'm struggling with "the right thing" to do in Huey's case. He doesn't seem to be in pain or discomfort except when he's all stressed out from his treatments.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

is there a way they can teach you how to do it yourself and you can get the stuff from them through prescription? explain to them that it is stressing him out to go back and forth twice a day and stress is NOT good for a sick bird, it will only make him worse as he has no chance to rest and de-stress. see if they are willing to do that, as i know some things can be taught to do at home as a home treatment. poor guy, 28 is a good ripe age, and im sure he had a great long life with you


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## neeliec (Jul 31, 2012)

Thank you so much, *DallyTsuka*! 

I will certainly ask if there is any kind of equivalent treatment that could be administered at home. I am not sure about doing injections, but I guess if it meant easing Huey's stress, I'd sure try it.


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## leeisme (Feb 4, 2011)

Good luck with whatever you choose to do. Huey, I'm rooting for you.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i know many vets give injectable antibiotics, and often show the owner how to do it at home. i would think they would be able to do the same thing for the fluids? just explain how stressed it is making him, as you really dont want to stress him that much.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

It is not an easy choice to make, I wish you luck what ever your choice! I'll be thinking of you!


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I think dallytsuka's suggestion is a really good one. Hopefully that's a possibility. I too would struggle with deciding about the stressful treatments versus quality of life. I saw that tielfan had sent some info on kidney disease in the other section. Hopefully, that can help too and Huey will get better. Sending good thoughts to you and Huey.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

If they're doing subcutaneous fluids (which I assume they are) then you can definitely learn to do it yourself. That would probably be much less stressful on him. Also ask about allopurinol, to see if it might be able to help with his kidney function. I'm sorry to hear you're going through this. 28 years is a very long time and he is clearly very well loved!


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## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

Huey is very very lucky to be with you for 28 years. I am going thru the same thing with my Sammy at age 25 and it is very hard. I would ask the vet if you could do it yourself if indeed he thinks it will increase the quality of his life and ask him for how long. I have chosen not to do fluids with Sammy as my vet said he his life wouldnt be extended by it and his stress is way too high with that much handling as he was not a handfed tiel so he doesnt tolerate things like that. Huey sounds like he was hand fed tho so he seems to be tolerating it well. Love him, make him comfy. Make his cage comfy, etc. Take pictures and videos and love him even more.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*Below* is something I have saved on my computer that lists several things that you can give that will help with Renal/kidney problems. As to the treatment now, I am going to be blunt and you are just a 'Cash Cow' for this vet. Your bird WILL NOT have to be on Sub-Q fluids for the rest of his life. Sub-Q fluids are used mainly short-term and to reverse *immediate* renal failure. Ideally the vet should have prescribed Huey *allopurinol*, which you would have seen immediate results within a day. In addition the vet should have gone over his diet to see what protein sources are in the diet, and what needs to be eliminated while he is undergoing treatment.

I would talk to the vet as to FIRST, showing you how to do the Sub-Q fluids 9and selling you the supplies, which should be under $20), so that if you need to do them in the future you know how. BUT, ask to discontinue the Sub-Q fluid therapy, and ask that the vet prescribe allopurinol. And below as several natural things you can also encourage Huey to try that are supportive of renal problems.
-------------------------

Renal problems are not exclusive to diet or genetics. A simple accident where the tiel get wedged somewhere with the wings up...even for a couple of minutes can cause a chill to the kidneys...thus crystallization of the urates, and if not caught soon enough, and the bird hydrated by Sub-Q fluids (means subcutaneous, fluids injected under the skin and absorbed by tisssues) it can go into renal failure and die.

Excess protein in the diet can contribute to to renal problems and failure. 

Symptoms to watch for that could indicate the bird is at risk of of renal failure: The bird acts lethagic. The muscles feel bunched and tight. The eyes are slitted from excruciating pain. There is either blood (pinkish discoloration) in the urine, or the urates will be thin, gritty, and chalky looking.

Quick action of Sub-Q therapy can actually reverse the renal failure and save a bird. 
The following helps with Gout and impaired Renal/Kidney function.

1…Initial treatment would be a medication called *allopurinol.* Usually you will see a dramatic improvement with the bird within a day.

2…Other helpful things are adding a small amount of cranberry or cherry juice to the drinking water. This helps to break down some of the crystals formed from the uric acid.

3…Hulled oats (oat groats) helps to reduce uric acid levels. 

3…Celery greens and seeds, or herbal extract are good for renal problems and act as an antiseptic to disinfect the urinary tubules. Celery is an excellent food that digests well with almost anything else. It contains the necessary mineral sodium, which is present in a ratio that can be easily accessed by the body. Sodium is critical, along with the mineral potassium, in managing the body's electrolyte balance. Electrolytes create electric osmotic pressure which helps the body to move fluids through the cell's membranes. 

4…The silk from ear corn (organically grown or a herbal extract from a health food store) will sooth the damaged urinary tract, and improve urine flow. Plus corn silk is a source of potassium, Vitamin C and K. 

5…Plain grass, roots and all (no joke, cats/dogs will eat this if they have urinary problems) will benefit both the liver and kidneys.

6…Dandilion greens or herbal extract helps with the liver, but it also aids the kidneys by stimulating them to remove toxins in the urine. 

The above is a few simple things to help those with renal/kidney problems. I've personally used many of the above things to help the bird and not lose it.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Here's a thought... it obviously might not be desirable to take a sick elderly bird on the hour and a half drive to Tucson, but if you have doubts about your current vet it might be worthwhile to have a Tucson vet look at the lab reports and give an opinion. Expect to pay a fee for the service of course.

If you're interested in this idea, here's the website for Central Animal Hospital: http://www.centralah.com/ Dr Michael Samuels is the Tucson bird vet who's most recommended by the local pet bird club. He's a minimalist when it comes to running tests and doing procedures, and won't recommend anything unless he thinks it's really necessary. It would be interesting to get his opinion on the course of treatment that your current vet has embarked on.

Of course you're not limited to Tucson for ventures like this. It's my understanding that the only board-certified avian vet in Arizona is Hillary Frank in Phoenix. I don't actually know anything about her or her reputation, but here's her website: http://www.northcentralanimalhospital.com/


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## neeliec (Jul 31, 2012)

papresq said:


> Huey is very very lucky to be with you for 28 years. I am going thru the same thing with my Sammy at age 25 and it is very hard. I would ask the vet if you could do it yourself if indeed he thinks it will increase the quality of his life and ask him for how long. I have chosen not to do fluids with Sammy as my vet said he his life wouldnt be extended by it and his stress is way too high with that much handling as he was not a handfed tiel so he doesnt tolerate things like that. Huey sounds like he was hand fed tho so he seems to be tolerating it well. Love him, make him comfy. Make his cage comfy, etc. Take pictures and videos and love him even more.


Hello *papresq* - thank you for sharing about your Sammy. Yes, you're correct - Huey is hand-fed.

I am still struggling with this whole issue. This morning I gave Huey a warm bath to soften the caked-on feces under his tail. This just started a few days ago, and I know it's another sign that he's not doing well. I had him stand in warm water just deep enough to soften the clump so I could remove it. Then I got him out, wrapped him in a towel to dry him and took him outside in the warm sun for a few minutes. He was shivering, so I gently blew warm air on his tail with a hair dryer to dry the feathers.

He is sleeping on his perch now, and looks so very very thin.

Part of my dilemma right now is that the vet who initially saw him is out of town until Thursday (8-16) and we leave for a 2 week trip the 17th. Huey will be with his wonderful and caring sitter who is very much a bird person. I know she will give Huey whatever treatments he needs, tend to him while we're gone and even take him to the vet if necessary. I just hate going off leaving him like this. We can't change our plans to leave. I entertained the idea of taking him with us, but that's just not feasible.

I hate to ask this, but what are the expectations with Sammy since you've chosen not to do the fluids? Did the vet give you any sense of how this will play out? 

I'm so sorry about your Sammy, and send you good wishes during this difficult time.

Eileen


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## neeliec (Jul 31, 2012)

tielfan said:


> Here's a thought... it obviously might not be desirable to take a sick elderly bird on the hour and a half drive to Tucson, but if you have doubts about your current vet it might be worthwhile to have a Tucson vet look at the lab reports and give an opinion. Expect to pay a fee for the service of course.
> 
> If you're interested in this idea, here's the website for Central Animal Hospital: http://www.centralah.com/ Dr Michael Samuels is the Tucson bird vet who's most recommended by the local pet bird club. He's a minimalist when it comes to running tests and doing procedures, and won't recommend anything unless he thinks it's really necessary. It would be interesting to get his opinion on the course of treatment that your current vet has embarked on.
> 
> Of course you're not limited to Tucson for ventures like this. It's my understanding that the only board-certified avian vet in Arizona is Hillary Frank in Phoenix. I don't actually know anything about her or her reputation, but here's her website: http://www.northcentralanimalhospital.com/


Thank you so much for the referral and information, *tielfan*! I will call Dr. Samuels' office first thing tomorrow. I'm running out of time before we have to leave on a trip for 2 weeks. Huey will be staying with his pet sitter who is very experienced with birds and their care. I'm not sure what might happen while we're gone, but she has permission to take Huey to be treated at our local vet. 

Tucson is 90 miles away, so I will need to talk with the folks there before deciding whether to transport Huey that far.

Thank you for your caring and concern!

Eileen


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## neeliec (Jul 31, 2012)

srtiels said:


> *Below* is something I have saved on my computer that lists several things that you can give that will help with Renal/kidney problems. As to the treatment now, I am going to be blunt and you are just a 'Cash Cow' for this vet. Your bird WILL NOT have to be on Sub-Q fluids for the rest of his life. Sub-Q fluids are used mainly short-term and to reverse *immediate* renal failure. Ideally the vet should have prescribed Huey *allopurinol*, which you would have seen immediate results within a day. In addition the vet should have gone over his diet to see what protein sources are in the diet, and what needs to be eliminated while he is undergoing treatment.
> 
> I would talk to the vet as to FIRST, showing you how to do the Sub-Q fluids 9and selling you the supplies, which should be under $20), so that if you need to do them in the future you know how. BUT, ask to discontinue the Sub-Q fluid therapy, and ask that the vet prescribe allopurinol. And below as several natural things you can also encourage Huey to try that are supportive of renal problems.
> -------------------------
> ...


Oh my - THANK YOU, *sirtiels*, for the excellent information!! I've sent hubby to the store to get some celery and cranberry juice. I have oat groats and will fill Huey's dish with them. I did create a special mix of seeds, including the oats, when he first started looking ill. I will increase the ratio of oats so that he can get plenty of them.

I am also giving him fluids several times daily with oral syringe.


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## neeliec (Jul 31, 2012)

_Originally Posted by srtiels:
Below is something I have saved on my computer that lists several things that you can give that will help with Renal/kidney problems. As to the treatment now, I am going to be blunt and you are just a 'Cash Cow' for this vet. Your bird WILL NOT have to be on Sub-Q fluids for the rest of his life. Sub-Q fluids are used mainly short-term and to reverse immediate renal failure. Ideally the vet should have prescribed Huey *allopurinol*, which you would have seen immediate results within a day. In addition the vet should have gone over his diet to see what protein sources are in the diet, and what needs to be eliminated while he is undergoing treatment.

I would talk to the vet as to FIRST, showing you how to do the Sub-Q fluids 9and selling you the supplies, which should be under $20), so that if you need to do them in the future you know how. BUT, ask to discontinue the Sub-Q fluid therapy, and ask that the vet prescribe allopurinol. And below as several natural things you can also encourage Huey to try that are supportive of renal problems._

I meant to add that Huey has an appointment tomorrow with the local vet and I will certainly ask about the medication. She did mention something about prescribing a medication for him, but I assumed she was waiting to see if the fluid therapy was doing any good. The doc herself is out of town and is communicating via emails with the office. There are other vets and techs on staff. They tried to take a second blood sample from Huey last Thursday, but said his artery was too compromised to try and so they are going to attempt that again tomorrow. 

I was starting to feel like a cash cow, with 2 fluid treatments per day for a week ($33 per treatment), and had told the vet I didn't want extreme measures taken to keep Huey alive. He's 28, and I don't think his little system has a lot left in it to fight, although he really did perk up after several of the fluid injections.

Will try to keep you all posted.

Thank you again for the great info and advice!

Eileen


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Then I got him out, wrapped him in a towel to dry him and took him outside in the warm sun for a few minutes.


It's August and the middle of the monsoon, so outdoor conditions obviously aren't great for much of the day. But when it's sunny and not too hot outside, it might be beneficial to take him outside in a cage for a little sunshine. Stay with him of course, to keep him safe and also so you'll know whether he starts feeling stressed in any way so you can take him back inside if you need to. 

I'm not aware of any direct benefits for kidney disease, but natural sunlight has psychological benefits and will also help with his vitamin D3 levels. So it's a good thing, as long as he isn't frightened by being outside. Birds who aren't used to being outdoors may be freaked out by it at first, and you obviously don't want to put that kind of stress on Huey.

Good luck with everything, I hope Dr Samuels can give you some help!


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## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

Eileen, my very good friend Noelle is in Tempe and could possibly babysit Huey while you are gone if you want me to ask her? She does parrot rescue and I have known her for 20 years. I dont know what she charges for boarding if she does, but if she said yes, you wouldnt have to worry about Huey while you were gone...

Lisa


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## neeliec (Jul 31, 2012)

papresq said:


> Eileen, my very good friend Noelle is in Tempe and could possibly babysit Huey while you are gone if you want me to ask her? She does parrot rescue and I have known her for 20 years. I dont know what she charges for boarding if she does, but if she said yes, you wouldnt have to worry about Huey while you were gone...
> 
> Lisa


Thank you Lisa for your most kind gesture! I'm so moved by your offer. 

Actually the sitter who will be keeping Huey while we're gone is an animal person. She has about a dozen birds of her own and has a degree in animal science, and is very experienced with working with domesticated birds. She has been keeping Huey for us for 6 years now and we have all the trust and faith in her to give him the best care and treatment. 

We've talked about Huey's condition and what kind of actions that should be taken should he take a turn for the worse while we're gone. I have a form on file with the vet giving her permission to get Huey treated should the need arise.

But I sincerely thank you for the kindness in your heart and for offering me an alternative to be sure our little Huey is getting good care while we're gone.

Eileen


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