# Will hormonal aggression last forever?



## pluto

My tiel has almost finished his first molt. He was handfed by me from 13 days old and has always been very attached and tame. I could sit holding him for hours and he spent lots of time out of his cage.
This past summer during his molt he started showing some serious signs of aggression. And when I say serious... I mean *very *serious aggression. Not just hissing and nipping but full blown attacks.

I am certain it is hormonal because I have come to recognize the warning signs that I will soon be dealt with an attack. First he spots something he likes (papertowel roll, shopping bag, shiny yogurt container lid, toaster... ) then he starts to sing to it and does his heart shaped wing and beak banging struts. Then he will lunge at me and literally fly across the room for a good attack and actually doesn't even stop when swished away! He comes in for more and more!
It is brutal and now it is to the point where I can't trust him not to attack the kids because he really gets "lovey" with them too!! He has attacked all of us but mostly me because I am around him most.

Today he flew up to my face and bit my cheek and once again drew blood. I can't even believe this is the same bird that would sit and cuddle for hours 
Hi still loves being scritched and cuddled with but his attacks come out usually when he gets in his mood.

I moved his cage to another area of the same room, I started to cover him for longer nights, I tried to reduce the abundance of extra food he has and give him what he needs each day. I also try to let him out and remove all known triggers (still he finds something!) and I try to catch the first signs of his actions before the onset of attack but it is hard. 

I worry that this behaviour will become habit??? And that maybe it won't go away ever?? How long will this last? 
I am starting to get phobic actually. I can't believe how serious it is. I try very hard to not appear afraid and not let him get away with aggression by making sure I get him back in his cage for a cooldown but usually I am bleeding by that point. 

I am desperate for advice and can't even believe this is happening!

Has anyone dealt with such an aggressive bird? And what is the success rate of reversing this or stopping it. Thanks!


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## roxy culver

How long have you been doing the hormone reduction techniques? It usually takes about two weeks for that to kick it and it should calm him down some. If I remember right from when Fuzzy went through this, it took about six months for him to get over his aggression.


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## pluto

I started the extra hours of darkness around a month ago and moved his cage and room around a bit last week.

Six months it took!!?? Wow... were you being attacked also? I read that the more comfortable a bird feels the more serious the aggression can get. It is really bad stuff when he attacks. 
So after the six month period, did this become a cycle type of thing or does the aggression end?

I might try moving him into our living room which is an even darker and less active room. Maybe this will help? I am really desperate and sad too because I am worried my beloved baby is forever changed


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## roxy culver

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZiO6V-dP4A&feature=plcp
This is just a short clip of how he used to be, we called him attack Fuzzy. He saw me as his girlfriend so he usually wasn't mean to me but he was to my hubby and all the other birds (he ended up in timeout A LOT). He's fine now, is back to being really sweet and cuddly he just had to get through this phase. Now I have another male going through it and he's in trouble all the time!


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## tielfan

How long are his nights? I'd put him on 14 hours of uninterrupted darkness per night - that's the maximum, and he needs it. It has to be dark and quiet enough to really seem like night. Throwing a cover over the cage in the TV room won't do the job. Enforce the long nights consistently, putting him to bed at about the same time every night.


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## pluto

He was in the corner of our kitchen and I'd cover him at 8pm until 7:30 am but we were still somewhat in and out of the kitchen so the light would get turned on. 
Last night I moved him in the living room. There is no TV and it's a more formal room that no one uses. I covered him at 8pm and he does have a dim nightlight I moved into that room.
Then at 4am he had a night fright and I had to get him settled and pull the edge of his cover back a bit. He has a rope perch he sleeps on so he rarely falls off the perch at night but last night maybe because he was moved he was disoriented a bit.

I felt bad covering him as early as 8pm but by the sounds of it, possibly this isn't early enough?? 

What time do you cover and uncover your birds? Our family gets up at 7am which is why I uncover him at that time.

Now though he is in the living room and misses out on the action in the kitchen (where i usually am). I think his warm and cozy kitchen corner may have contributed to him feeling nesty and nasty!

I hope when I let him out today I don't get dive-bombed! 
And my biggest hope is that if I get through this stage with him that it doesn't keep returning as bad each year. It's scary actually... I can't believe how intimidated I'm feeling now when I spend time with him!


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## lethalfire

I'm sorry you are having to go through this, I'm sorry I can't be of much help because thankfully I have not yet had to deal with this (however I have a 4-5month old male so maybe my turn is coming)
if I am correct it is a phase that they go through kinda like going through the teenage years and it will pass in time. But the hormonal thing can happen periodically through out the year but is easier to control with the hormone reducing techniques. 

I honestly think this is something that will pass and you will get your sweet bird back, one other tip for when you are "cuddling" again, petting a bird down their back can trigure breeding/hormone issues so you might want to avoid doing that and just stay around the head and neck area for skritches.


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## pluto

Well today was the wost day EVER so far and it's not over because he just attacked me after being out for a couple of hours and now I can't get him to go back into his cage.
This is the worst he has hurt me. He was sitting on the table where I left some folded clothes. I went to go put clothes away and gently was talking to him when he bit me arm and wouldn't let go. Now I have a puncture on my inner forearm and then he bit me on my wrist and when I tried to get free from him he bit my left hand too. 
I don't know what to do because to be honest I'm at the point that I'm scared to death of getting attacked again.
I've got to get him back into his cage because I'm going out but that will take a miracle.
And if I do get him back in, right now I can't imagine wanting to keep taking him out if this keeps up.
I'm sooo sad because he was such a nice sweet bird. He speaks so many words and started off such a scrawny baby and is now handsome and healthy!! 
But in all honesty, this is becoming a real nightmare. 
He looks really tired right now. He is sleeping on my kitchen faucet. Maybe he will relax and I can get him to calm down for me.
I can't believe hormones can change a bird so much


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## fastjosh007

my bird does this too but its also cage dominance it probably a combo trut me im going through the same thing!!


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## lethalfire

The easiest way to get him back in his cage so that you and the bird don't get hurt is to get a thick towel or blanket, put the towel or blanket over him, scoop him up and put him in his cage, taking the towl off of him and close the door.

Just make sure the blanket/towel is thick enough that he can't bite through. Also your faucet could be triggering hormones if he can see his relection in it. Anything that is shiny that they can see their reflection in should be off limits if they are displaying this type of behavior.


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## roxy culver

Its going to take about two weeks for the hormone reduction to kick in so you're still going to have two weeks of this. Tiels don't have dominance issues, but there may be some cage aggression going on (because he sees the cage as his nest.) How much of his cage do you cover at night?

I put mine to bed between 9 and 10 and then wake them up 12hrs from whatever time they are were put to bed. If I have to get up at 5am for work, I don't wake them up til I get home at 11am. I have black out curtains in their room so I don't have to cover them.


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## pluto

I couldn't get him back in before I had to leave. I was trying with a towel but he was soaring around and there was no way he would land long enough. And then he started panting pretty bad and became stressed so I didn't want him to have a heart attack! 
I locked the dog in my room and the bird was on top his cage on his play gym so I just left. When I returned he was still on his cage but moved down onto his door. 
I calmly spoke to him, tried to get him to come to me. He did but would fly off when I got close to his cage.
I moved his cage back into the kitchen and when he went on my shoulder I got him to go into it in there.

I think moving the cage back into the kitchen reduced his anxiety and actually based on the aggressive nature of the attack today, I think moving his cage got him more aggressive.

I will leave it in the kitchen and I think I will keep him in there for a few days. Until he calms more and my fear relaxes a bit lol!

And in these next few days I will have to start covering him (I cover the whole cage around it and leave a small corner folded up in the back to allow a little nightlight in because of night frights). I think I need a darker material too. It sounds like they really need the darkness more than I realized.

My arm sure is a mess. It's so sad to think about 
But after I put him in the cage I sat next to it and spoke softly and whistled with him and then my heart melts because I totally just love him.

After this hormone issue is in check I really want to start working on serious training. I took for granted that he was so attached to me and was so tame but now I can really see the benefit of him following commands.

Do you all find clicker training a good way to train your tiels? I wish I started formal training from the beginning. 

And do you guys agree that a few days of keeping him in his cage may help us both? I don't what to make things worse by cooping him up but I don't feel ready for a repeat of today!

Thanks so much all of you. I really appreciate working through this with others who understand tiels!!


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## pluto

As for cage aggression, I've never seen that with him. He jumps out of the cage no problem and never hisses or bites me when I'm in there with my hand changing food and such (knock on wood!!). Seems to all be about when he's out of the cage and gets a "feeling" for a particular item. Today it was the laundry... in particular a white sock! He's a horny little devil lol!! 
I should get it on video! I think it may even shock you all to see the fierceness of it. I looked on YouTube but didn't see any as fierce as him. He bites and holds on. It's scary! :O


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## roxy culver

I think letting him be in the kitchen during the day and moving him somewhere else (you could even try a completely dark closet, that way no chance or minimal chance of night frights) at night. I don't think him being in the living room last night was why he attacked you. I think he's very hormonal and may even see the warm cozy kitchen as his nest and possibly the reflection in the kitchen faucet as his mate (which would explain why he attacked you then.)

I would also look into clipping him. I realize it sounds cruel, but if he can't gain flight then he can't attack or divebomb you. And you only have to keep him clipped til he calms down again. Plus, being clipped will make him depend on you more and he may not be as mean then.

I've never done clicker training with any of my birds. Its a good way to teach tricks, but birds don't really understand what "no" means. They understand positive reinforcement more then anything else.


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## tielfan

There was too much activity in the kitchen at night for the hormone control techniques to be effective. You should get better results now that he's in a quieter location but it will take some time for it to work - at least a week. Typically there is no change in behavior at all at first and then the change will kick in very suddenly.

He might be feeling stressed today because his cage has been moved to a new location. If the aggression is so bad that you can't let him out of the cage then leave him in there until his hormones are under control. Don't abandon him in there though; stop by frequently to talk to him and deliver treats through the cage bars to help improve his attitude (see food bribery sticky at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=28661 ). Just don't give him an opportunity to bite you.

Edit: oops, I somehow missed a few posts and you've moved him back to the kitchen. You do have the option of keeping him in one room during the daytime and in a different room at night, maybe in a small sleep cage so you don't have to move the big cage back and forth all the time. BTW kitchens are not the greatest place to keep a bird because of the frequent temperature fluctuations and the risk from fumes and smoke.


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## lethalfire

When you said you couldn't get him with the towel I'm taking that as meaning he's fully flighted? If he is showing this kind of aggression and issues it might be time to do a wing trim.

That might help to adjust his attitude a bit.


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## moonchild

I would definitely clip his wings, that way you won't get dive-bombed. Also it'll make toweling him to get him back in the cage much easier. Hopefully this is just a phase he grows out of, and you can let him be flighted again later on. Good luck! I hope he'll be back to his old self soon.

Edit: Oops, I didn't see the second page of the thread before posting...sorry for the redundant advice. :blush: You may want to talk to DallyTsuka though, since she has a bird that can be violent and might have some good advice.


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## pluto

You guys are great!
I hate to clip those beautiful new feathers! But thinking back to early days with him after he started learning to fly, he did get quite cocky back then and mean when he started to figure out that he could fly on top the fridge and got a little defiant. I think a lot of my problem controlling him is that he is an awesome flyer and soars around me leaving me with little control.
Where he is located is far away from the cooking area in our kitchen. His cage is on the opposite wall behind the dining room table so he gets all the attention in there but the air quality would be cleaner. It's a pretty large open kitchen/dining area.
If I left him all day in the living room he would get pretty lonely.
I like the idea though of having two locations. I could try this, because I have a more portable cage for when we camp with him. I could sleep him in that in a dark area and then transfer him to the large cage for the day. Of course at this point though I'm nervous to attempt transfer lol!
I think the wing clip may be a good option for now first. All his adult feathers are in so he shouldn't have any blood feathers but I'll have to inspect them closely. I may take him to a pro for the first clip. I've done it before years ago on our old cockatiel but I'm rusty and a bit traumatized at this point!
You guys are really priceless. Thanks so much. I'm going to try all your suggestions.


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## tielfan

Is there some kind of treat that he finds irresistible, like sunflower seed or millet spray? If so, you can use it to lure him into the sleep cage at bedtime. There probably won't be any problems with getting him to come out of the cage in the morning - it sounds like he loves his freedom!

You might want to have the sleep cage sitting out where he can see it in the daytime, with treats inside so he's tempted to go in and explore. This will help him get used to going in the cage, and hopefully there will be fewer arguments at bedtime.


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## ikers02

*wing clipping*



pluto said:


> You guys are great!
> I hate to clip those beautiful new feathers! But thinking back to early days with him after he started learning to fly, he did get quite cocky back then and mean when he started to figure out that he could fly on top the fridge and got a little defiant. I think a lot of my problem controlling him is that he is an awesome flyer and soars around me leaving me with little control.
> Where he is located is far away from the cooking area in our kitchen. His cage is on the opposite wall behind the dining room table so he gets all the attention in there but the air quality would be cleaner. It's a pretty large open kitchen/dining area.
> If I left him all day in the living room he would get pretty lonely.
> I like the idea though of having two locations. I could try this, because I have a more portable cage for when we camp with him. I could sleep him in that in a dark area and then transfer him to the large cage for the day. Of course at this point though I'm nervous to attempt transfer lol!
> I think the wing clip may be a good option for now first. All his adult feathers are in so he shouldn't have any blood feathers but I'll have to inspect them closely. I may take him to a pro for the first clip. I've done it before years ago on our old cockatiel but I'm rusty and a bit traumatized at this point!
> You guys are really priceless. Thanks so much. I'm going to try all your suggestions.


I know it seems cruel but my cockatiel Charley gets very defiant when his wings grow out and will leave me in the dust flying around the house and landing on our curtain rods. as soon as i clip his wings he goes back to being very lovie and wanting to be with me all the time. that may be something to do just make sure to go to a vet to do this because if they clip the wings too short then they can crash and burn so to say and their tail feathers don't survive.


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