# Cupcake is fading fast what do I do?



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I came home from class and she was lying on her side, I've given her pedialyte and have a box ready to go. it would cost 125 bucks just to take her to the vet. Someone said she may have a deficiency but in what? None of the other birds have it. She looks straight up sometimes for no reason but she's always done this, its one of the things my hubby likes about her. She has labored breathing and her heart rate has slowed (been listening with a baby stethoscope.) Any advice please!!!


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## shelagh (Nov 2, 2010)

OMG I would try to get her to the vet immediately. I hope she makes it


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I'm trying to convince my hubby but at the moment I need some things I can do to possibly keep her alive through the night, our regular vet is closed till morning.


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## shelagh (Nov 2, 2010)

Keep her warm and comfortable...the pedialyte is a good idea...as far as immediate treatment for deficiencies I'm not sure. My positive energies are with you all.


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## shelagh (Nov 2, 2010)

On what you mentioned about star-gazing, I read that it could be a symptom of a bacterial infection. Whatever emergency relief you could do to address bacterial infection that wouldn't adversely affect her health in case of other causes might help. Still researching...


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I read in a three year old book that a mix of bleach and water (1 part bleach 9 parts water) would help with a bacterial infection but I would be afraid to try it. Do you think it would be ok?


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

hun i sent you a pm with susannes number i have been unable to reach her yet but i thought ide pass it on incase you could reach her, your in my prayers hun


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Thanks I found her an email on her site and sent her an email as well....


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## DollyGirl (Mar 6, 2011)

I wanna say the deficiency that could cause star gazing is vitamin A. Oh i do hope she'll pull through


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

Symptoms:

"Stargazers" constantly throw their head back, sleep with their heads between their legs; go around in a circle; look at the ceiling, turn their heads around in a circle and look up. 

Stargazing can strike at random and without warning or past history of problems.

Finches are particularly susceptible - although other species have been diagnosed with it. 



Progression:

•In some birds, the condition may correct itself over time or may be corrected given certain condition ...: 
◦... if it was caused by poor positioning inside the egg / poor egg condition (may only be a consideration if a bird was born with this condition)
◦... condition may be reversed is if the root cause is malnutrition and it is corrected 
◦...resolution might be achieved through successfully treatment protocol (antibiotic treatments, etc.). 
If this condition is left uncorrected, the following progression) can be expected:

•Inability to fly.
•Loss of balance/equilibrium. Falls off the perch. 
•Difficulty moving around in cage
•Can't find food or water - resulting in starvation 
•The end result of stargazing (if untreated or not self-corrected) is almost always death.


What Cause Stargazing / Twirling?

A definite cause has not been identified as of yet; however, the following are suspected: 

•Egg positioning (?) 
•Viral / bacterial or yeast infection 
•Chemical imbalance
•Vitamin and/or mineral (nutritional) deficiency; Vitamin D deficiency (lack of natural sunlight exposure). Too much calcium can result in a ‘drunken bird' look
•Genetic predisposition 
•Inner-ear problem


Treatment for Stargazing

The following treatments have been reported as being fairly effective: 

1.Nystatin
2.Trimethoprim Sulfa
3.Vitamin B 12 to strengthen the nervous system
4.Enhanced nutrition to correct any nutritional deficiencies 



Prevention of Stargazing

The following steps will be an important step in not only preventing this disease, but others too.

1.Prevent birds which carry the genetic predisposition for this disease from breeding so that they cannot pass this condition on to their offspring
2.Provide the best nutrition possible.
3.Provide uncontaminated water and clean air
4.Keep your bird's environment clean

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

That came from the Avian Website


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## shelagh (Nov 2, 2010)

In the same article nwoodrow posted above, which I had just read at that site and on a previous post here (odd there aren't more resources on the syndrome for birds-mainly reptiles) that it may also be a neurological issue that a B12 supplement may help. Oh roxy, I hope she's alright...


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Roxy

I replied to your email and sent a # to phone. Normally I have the ringer of the phone off this time of night, nut I turned it back on.

What antibiotics do you have on hand? If none can you mix up the Spoce Remedy? I would mix some with a little bit of water or formula and handfeed her.


 Recipe for the Spice Recipe







 
​
*Take a small jar and mix thoroughly the following, which the base stock:

**2 tsp. of garlic powder *(*not* garlic salt)

*1/2 tsp of cinnamon

1/2 tsp. of ginger

*There are several ways that I will use to treat. If it is a single bird or just a couple I will mix up a small solution and either give orally or use a small crop tube and feed directly into the crop.

*I will mix 1/8 teaspoon of the spice mix with 2cc of water.* (*Optional* a pinch of Probiotics or Yogurt, and Brewers Yeast can be added if the baby appears pale or stressed)

Each chick is given a 1/2cc (*.*5cc) 2 times a day for 5-7 days.

If I am hand feeding a lot of babies I will mix *¼ teaspoon PER ½ cup of formula *2 times a day.

This combination of spices will help cut down on the yeast and bacteria by means of inhibiting overgrowth while boosting the immune system, and providing nutritional and supportive care to the digestive tract, body and organs. The spice remedy is designed more as a *supportive treatment* rather than for any antibacterial or antifungal properties. The dosage is too low to be truly effective as a stand alone antibiotic treatment. 

​


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

roxy, phone susanne, she has her phone back on


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

If you don't have antibiotics do you have a feed store nearby? Sometimes they will have powdered antibiotics. If not in a pinch the spice remedy will be supportive of the immune system.

Also place your ear on her back to see if she is breathing normally.

If she is having head tilt...has she been set up or laying recently? if so she may have sufferred a stroke. The E and selenium in the farlic powder will help some.

Other thoughts are they housed inside or outside?


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I'm sorry Roxy,  I sure hope she makes it.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

She's housed inside, she's been throwing her head back since I got her back in August, and no I hadn't set her up for laying because she was too underweight. That was the first thing I noticed was how thin she was. I have everything but the ginger, I can go get it. I have a multi-vitamin for their water which I never give them would that help at all? And I should give her some formula? Her breathing is normal IF my hubby has a q-tip in her mouth keeping it open, otherwise she's wheezing, I'm going to call you here in a sec Susanne, thank you everyone!


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

Roxy, Susanne is awaiting your phone call


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## xxxSpikexxx (Jul 30, 2007)

Oh no, I hope she makes it so you can get her to a vet ASAP


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## birdlover4life (Mar 6, 2010)

Aww, Roxy, I hope shes okay! Best wishes!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*she's been throwing her head back since I got her back in August, and no I hadn't set her up for laying because she was too underweight.*
*-----------------------------------------------*

When you got her was she housed outside? If so there is a slight possibility it could be Sarco (sarcocystis) which would also show similar symptoms. If you can get Tri-meth-Sulfa (Bactrim or trimethoprim/sulgaiazine) from a feed store that will help any secondary bacterial infection in the gut so that she can absorb nutrients better from what she eats.

In addition for right now do what we discused on the phone. 

(HUGS)


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## shelagh (Nov 2, 2010)

Susanne, does this mean that I should avoid bringing my tiels outside with me (rolling their cage outside onto the porch) while I prepare my garden this spring? I don't want to expose them to microbes unnecessarily.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

No, I think it has more to do with cockatiels being permanetly housed outside.


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

Oh dear, I hope she will be okay and pulls through.  Thankfully we have someone very knowledgeable here (Susanne) to help out.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

oh no.... i hope she makes it! i hope she really does D: she was fine not that long ago!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

OK here's an update (hubby won't leave her side lol) I mixed up the spice remedy with the b12 and the baby asprin and tried to give her one cc of it. It was a struggle and I'm not sure I got much in her, she may have aspirated some which we're keeping an eye on right now. Her breathing is better though and her heart rate picked up since giving her the initial pedialyte and hubby says she pooped while I was at the store and that the white part looked white but the other stuff was runny, which I'm guessing is because the pedialyte is the only thing that's been in her system in a while. I'll stay up all night with her if I have to, I've pulled all nighters before. I want to give her food but I'm afraid that I'll aspirate her. The pet store closed at 6 way before I had a chance to get there even. So the only tubing I could find is for a fish tank and Hubby is worried its too big for her throat (talk about overprotective parent) but I have to do something, I can't just let her starve. Any ideas?


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

well if you need to pull an all nighter.... ill be here as long as i can, i want to stay updated!

ive never been in your situation. worst ive had to do was attempt to keep a gaping wound clean (to no avail, that ended in the decision of euthanasia) and syringe feeding baytril  so i cant help much, but ill stay for support


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Thanks Dally, you don't know how much that means to me...I'm thinking this may have been a bacterial thing that she had when I bought her. The breeder wasn't at the bird fair where we got her, his wife was, I assumed they were kept inside but I don't know as she didn't know very much about them. When Mudflap got sick I assumed it was from something else, depression that caused a yeast infection or something because he lost his babies. In fact, that vet NEVER called me back with his test results and the holidays came and I never got a chance to call them back, plus with the anitbiotics he seemed to get better. But now I think it may have been bacterial, as she's acting just like he did when he passed and I wasn't anywhere near home or a vet to save him. We were visiting family and had the birds with us. She could've been a carrier for a long time and never shown any symptoms except for the star-gazing thing. I know I'm rambling but I'm so worried about her, I'm sitting on the laptop next to her watching her. She's still breathing and holding her head up, crest erect, so fingers crossed she pulls through the night...


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

sounds very possible she could have been carrying something. lets just pray it wasnt contageous. this is scary for you, i know. im praying she makes it. lets hope the vets tomorrow can find out what's wrong.

and youre not rambling. thats very good information to know.


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## crazy4tiels88 (Aug 10, 2008)

Ohh Roxy I Am So Sorry I Will Keep U In My Prayers! Hope She Does Better Through The Night!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

(((HUGS))) 

Your doing good. Until she is a little stronger and tries to eat/drink on her own it is best to slowly try to get a little food and fluids into her. Since her breathing is a little better the fluids may have really helped there. 

She'll benefit from heat so that she does not have to use her body reserves to maintain heat.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

That's what I figured too, I've got her in a box with a towel wrapped in a white tshirt in case she poops again so I can see it, with a lamp on her. The bulb is that avian bulb, should I change it out for a regular one or will that be ok? Btw, thanks Susanne for all your help, it makes me feel better to know I'm not completely lost!


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

heat lamp.... if it feels warm on your hand at the distance you have her from and it feels comfortable (not too cool, not hot) then its fine. if it feels too hot, move it up a bit until it feels comfortable or find a lower watt. (vet told me 50 watt infrared for toby when he was ill... dunno how correct it was, but it worked regardless and wasnt too hot so long as his head was more than 6 inches away from it)


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

Oh roxy im keeping my fingers crossed for you


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

well hun its 11pm here and ide thought ide check in to how shes doing before i head off to bed tonight, i hope shes okay and just know my husband and i are praying for her.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Thanks guys, she's hanging in there...still breathing for me ok. Finally got hubby to go to sleep so I'm going to stay up with her through the night. She at least deserves that, so that even if she doesn't make it I can hold her. I think she's sleeping now, her breathing isn't as labored. If she's still with me at 2am, I'm gonna try to syringe feed her some food, but I don't know if she'll be able to swallow it.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I finally got a poop out of her and it doesn't look good. There's the normal green part, that's fine its everything else that's wonky. What's supposed to be white is yellowish (she's wrapped in a white tshirt so it stands out) and I was told this means it could be her kidneys (could the bacteria have moved there?) So I was told cranberry juice. Hubby is asleep, but I have to do something, I'm pretty sure a gas station would have cranberry juice in small bottles so I might run to the gas station to see if I can find her some. Its worth a shot...


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## Set (Mar 14, 2011)

I wish I had some sort of advice to offer, but I don't.
I hope she pulls through this. I'll be keeping you both in my thoughts tonight <3


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Thanks Set...I'm pretty sure now what I thought was sneezing was her coughing or vomiting into her mouth...I can swab stuff out of her mouth after she does it. So I think I'm getting something into her but I'm not sure she's keeping it down. And she pooped on me again, it was pretty big like she'd been holding it for a while. But she's still breathing so there's still hope.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

hope she is ok


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

She's still breathing...as long as she hangs in there I'll get her to the vet.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

im praying for her to make it


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## Chez (Feb 17, 2011)

How's little Cupcake doing now, Roxy?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Hanging in there...I'm swabbing her mouth some now to get whatever comes up. I'm gonna try more cranberry juice soon. But she's still breathing, crest still erect. Its a little after 3am here...there is light at the end of the tunnel.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

time does the vet open


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

its 6:11 am here..... im ahead of you a few hours D:

what time does the vet open?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Just checked the site...they open at 8am. We got 5 hours and I can take her in. I'll call ahead but I'm pretty sure if I say its an emergency they'll see me. They're all really nice in the office and the doctor loves birds, he gave Oreo a kiss when I took her in.


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## Chez (Feb 17, 2011)

Be standing at the door when they open at 8am; that way they can't fob you off


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

sorry roxy, i dont think i can make it THAT long but ill try. ill just go to bed when you go to the vet. ill wake up and get the news after vet. im gonna try to stay up though but if i crash or suddenly STOP posting after 45 minutes, even when it says im online, then i passed out.

she's been fighting it this long, she'll make it to the vet. she will  youve done what you can for her


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Thanks guys...Dally hun you get to sleep when you need to. You have no idea how much I appreciate you staying awake with me. And everyone else, thanks for the support. She's gonna make it, she's made it this far right?


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

Of course she will make it  I just hope time goes quickly for the vet to open


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Its been going so far...I've found movies and such to watch on tv plus browsing the forum and my email. I could do homework, but I don't think I could concentrate.


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

I am so glad to read that she is still fighting. You are doing great with her and you are a fantastic mummy! I had planned to come back on sooner to check but had to clean cages, gah! I am done now and all birds are in bed so, I shall stay up too.  It is only 8:36pm here.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i dont blame you. at least you had an energy drink.... lol i drink those i get the shakes so bad and i feel sick so i stay well away. its been forums, cats, and tv keeping me up. im gonna stay as long as i possibly can. hopefully at least until you get to the vet, i like to but may not be possible. i think im gonna make a coffe. if the caffeine doesnt work, the sugar will. i measure my sugars by the handful. never sweet enough when using teaspoons lol


shes making it through the night. youve given her stuff good for her in a pinch, she seems strong, despite her situation. has she had any more droppings since the last one?


oh pardon any typos.... like missing letters. birds got seed under my keys again so some keys are stuck


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

You guys are the best! No new poops but she's still going. She whines occasionally, its very soft but she does it when I pet her or pick her up, like she's letting me know she's still fighting. She's my angel, I won't let her down. 4hrs, 12min and counting. I'm like you Dally, I like my sugar with a little bit of coffee. Might have to make some for when hubby wakes up, I don't know how good of a sleep he's been getting.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

hmmmm coffee anything close to 2-3 handfuls? i got small hands but regardless. lucky i very rarely drink coffee.



if shes still alert, im sure shes going to make it


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

She knows I'm here which is good enough for me. I have a stethoscope because I'm going to school to be a nurse and it has an infant side which I use to listen to her heart which is steady now and a lot better than last night which means something has to be working.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

thats a good sign. theres a lot of hope here, she'll keep fighting.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Any spark of life is worth a try in my book, I ain't giving up, even if I have to perform CPR on her. And I'm trained at it in infants so she can't be much different than that. Her breathing is steady which is encouraging, it means she's getting oxygen to her organs and that will keep her going. It helps I got the lamp on her so she doesn't have to work at staying warm. I'm pretty sure that and the spice remedy is what's keeping her going now.


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## leeisme (Feb 4, 2011)

Here's hoping everything turns out ok


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Thanks leeisme...she's hanging in there!


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## Chez (Feb 17, 2011)

> I like my sugar with a little bit of coffee.


Me too! LOL


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

srtiels knows a lot. her advice is usually spot on! im wondering why she never became an avian vet! she has saved hundreds of birds on this forum. who knows how many others!


glad to know though shes doing good. id be scared to do cpr, but i do believe you cover the whole beak and nostril when you breathe.... cpr on humans can break bones... im trained in it as well but id still be very cautious to do it on a baby! and im trained in that one too... just so fragile, little beings. could only imagine how hard it is for a bird. they have complex respiratory systems, i would guess cpr would be slightly different...


and im bummed about the coffee. fiance forgot to clean coffee maker so im gonna make a cinnamon ginger tea.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Its yummy that way and some milk! I'm not sure how fast a tiel heart beat is supposed to be, I know babies have really fast heart beats so I'm assuming tiels are fast as well. Hubby listened to her last night and said it was slow but its fast now so hopefully that's a good sign!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Bad fiance!!! lol...hubby makes coffee sometimes in the morning before he goes to work I can smell it when he kisses me goodbye and sometimes he'll bring me a cup but if he's in a hurry I get my own lol.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

its rare we drink coffee. i have adhd so caffeine can do one of 2 things with me. either give me the shakes or puts me to sleep. its weird but apparently common with adhd....


birds heart rates are super fast. i volunteer with bird banding in our area. i was lucky enough to adopt a little ruby throated hummingbird. luckier even to get to listen to its heart beat. they dont get the name HUMMINGbird from their wings. they get it from their heartbeat! sounds like a tiny little humming machine going on. tiels would be slower than that by a long shot but birds have fast heart beats. ill google tiel heart rates for you hang on a bit


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

cant. says it relies too much on size, weight, etc??? im confused, google no help lol


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

ah google lol...its ok, its steady and strong so that's a good thing and her breathing is good if a little raspy. less than four hours!


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## Chez (Feb 17, 2011)

Online avian vet 

This site says there are 2 avian vets online* now* & you should get a reply within 7 minutes. Worth a try for some advice?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Basically for now Susanne has given me the best advice, all the stores here are closed so anything I would need to do something they would suggest I would still have to wait until the store opens....SO frustrating!!! But thank you for the link, its a good thing to have.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

still have to pay for them.  that and how do we know its truly a vet on the other end lol


glad shes doing well. how has she been sleeping?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

She whines at times and will cough/sneeze occasionally. But she's breathing. I wish I could give her more of the children motrin but I'm afraid to aspirate her now that we've made it this far.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i think you're making good calls. sometimes the best help is not pushing things.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Yep, she's hung on this long, a little longer and she'll be ok. Her breathing hasn't changed, that's what I'm going on now. Any change in that and I know to worry.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

you're familiar with whats going on enough, you'd notice a change.

has she changed in anything at all, negatively or positively since this started?

sorry if youve said which ones have, my brain is failing me now lol


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Its ok you're just as sleepy as I am, more so because you're three hours ahead of me. Her breathing and heart beat are better than when I found her. Other than that, no change. She will shake her head at me whenever I try to put any fluid in her mouth. Other than that she's still the same, but no change is good in this case.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

she is getting better


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

She still refuses to move and her eyes are clenched tight which means she's in pain, my poor little girl. But she's fighting...if she can hang on this long I can too.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

shes gonna hold in there. the better breathing and heart beat are good for signs


my biggest fear is that if i go to sleep im gonna wake up to bad news. so i stay awake til she goes to vet.... if i can.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Aw thanks! Don't worry once I know everyone here will know too. I'll make sure to inform you guys because you've been such a help to me and kept my spirits up this whole time.


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## leeisme (Feb 4, 2011)

Roxy is she the second bird in the second row in your sig?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Yes leeisme, that's her. With the super plume and the cute face.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

Awww bless


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

yeah i wont be on much longer. i just caught myself dozing off sitting up and im getting those sleepy watery eyes and kinda leaning too much. surprisingly my fiance wasnt upset for why im staying up... i was up when he got up to go to work


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## birdlover4life (Mar 6, 2010)

I am hoping for her.. off to school now (its 8 am here) I have to wait til 3 whenI can get back on! Roxy take good care of her <3


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I'm doing my best! And Dally, get some sleep hun, don't worry, you'll hear all about it when you wake up and hopefully it'll be good news!


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

What time is where you are Roxy? It's 13.15pm here (lunchtime) Are you in the US? I looked at your location and am none the wiser.:blush:

Hope all goes well, I keep the computer on to check for updates.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Its 519am in the morning. Just waiting for the vet to open, now time seems to be dragging by but I know its not...but she's still here!


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

sorry roxy, i cant stay up much at all. im passing out on my keyboard. ill be back for updates when i get up in 5+ hours lol. its 8:28 am here.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Ok hun, nighty night, thank you for all the support!


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

You've got her through the night that's the worst time, what time do they open?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

8am...I'm not even gonna call, I'm just gonna show up on their doorstep asking for help.


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## shelagh (Nov 2, 2010)

Hey Roxy, I just woke up and Cupcake was the first thing on my mind. It sounds like you've been doing a wonderful job with her, just keep it up and hang in there until you can get her to the vet. She couldn't ask for better home care from her mom.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Thanks shelagh...she's gotten this far. She can go the rest of the way.


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## shelagh (Nov 2, 2010)

You know she can! I wish I didn't have to work today; I want to stay on here with you too.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Aw thanks! Don't worry, I'll make sure to keep everyone updated. 2hrs 15 minutes...


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

Im going no where


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i hope she gets better. this will be checked when i wake up! shes doing well, im sure shes going to make a recovery!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Thanks Lindsey! And Dally get some sleep, you need your rest. Susanne says it sounds like bacterial infection and the pain is coming from her kidneys. The vet can't open soon enough!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Roxy....check you email. I sent some info on renal/kidney treatments, and some things you can ask your vet for. (((HUGS)))


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Thank you Susanne...I've been making a list of her symptoms so I have everything on hand. Is sub-q fluids like giving them the antibacterial shot? I had to give that to Mudflap for ten days twice a day so I know how to do that...


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Sub-Q fluids are comparative to the IV fluids they give a person in the hospital. The solution is either Latated Ringers or Normosol. BUT, with a bird a small amount (1-2cc) is injected under the skin only...such as the loose flap of skin at the thigh. The body absorbs the fluids. A vet can supply you with the solution and syringes with needles (25 ga) 

Since you are familiar with doing shots you might ask the vet as to using injectable antibiotics too....which are delivered to the chest muscle.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Here is an ILLUS on where the Sub-Q fluids are injected. Another site can be between the shoulders, and under the skin.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

And I found some ILLUS for injectable meds...


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Thanks Susanne...so its similar to giving sub-q's to humans...I've done that before so no worries there. Less than an hour, almost there.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

((((HUGS))) and good luck at the vets. Bring any recent poops with you to show him what the urates look like.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

There's one in the box with her, the other one ended up all over the legs of my pajama pants when I was trying to get some more fluids into her. So I do have one to show him, but she hasn't done one in a while. Maybe she'll do one for him there.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

well is 715am here roxy, so you have done so well for your babe, im still a praying for you guys. and ill be here all day.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Thanks hun...44minutes to go.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

not long now


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Nope, and no change in heart rate or breathing so she's holding on. Its just a matter of time now.


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

Lots of good thoughts!! All the best at the vets and hugs for you and Cupcake who is staying strong.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Thanks Solace, you guys really are the best! Me and her needed all the support we could get!


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

I reckon it would be a good idea to take those pics of her holding her neck back to show te vet. I really hope it's something easy to treat with antibiotics like an innner ear infection or something.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Good idea Jess, the camera is coming with us...me too. Even simple bacteria, as long as she gets better that's all that matters.


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## DollyGirl (Mar 6, 2011)

Hope all goes well! I' ll be checking in soon and praying for a good recovery. You've been doing a great job Roxy, Cupcake I'm sure loves you for that.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

awake now (yep, 4 hours later) and im checking... good luck at the vets!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

We made it to the vets, they took her in, put her in an oxygen cage, gave her sub-q fluids to start and then are hooking her up to an IV. They also said they were giving her antibiotics, I tried to get the name but my brain is scrambled at the moment, it was something like infro-something or intra-? I don't know for sure. Its a little bit pricey but I don't get charged for the IV because she's so small. Hubby flipped on the price but he spends that much on his car without blinking an eye so I don't care. She may be able to come home today with me if she perks up enough. The doctor did say there was a chance she wouldn't make it but she did make it through the night. And if she doesn't make it they'll send her in for a necropsy so we can find out what was wrong with her. The doctor said it sounded like she had problems in her upper respiratory system too. Hopefully she makes it, I've got to go get ready for class, I'm going to go check on her this afternoon.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

I don't know any antibiotics starting like that name but I know of an antifungal called itrafungol. Are they going to do gram stains or blood tests?


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## leeisme (Feb 4, 2011)

We are all on pins and needles waiting for the good word. You are doing a fantastic job with her, Roxy. Amazing that she has such a loving mommy.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

glad she made it to the vets! lets hope she pulls through


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Yep, hopefully with the fluids and the meds and the oxygen she'll make it, she's a tough little cookie.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yay!...it sounds like what the vet has done was in the right direction in stabilizing her  The fluids will also help with the breathing.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

Im glad she's doing well, and i think that she's a tough little cookie. ill be here all day waiting for the news that your babe is coming home, still praying for her.


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## crazy4tiels88 (Aug 10, 2008)

Thats Good News Roxy Everytime I Get On Hear My Heart Races Cause I Am Afraid Of Whats Next But Glad She Is Good Hope She Recovers Fast! My Cat Had A Respirtory Infection And As Soon As They Put Her On Iv Fluids She Was Fine Next Morning My Cat Only Weighed 4 Pounds She Was In Bad Shape Even Though Of Course Cats Are Different But I Kinda Have Been In Same Boat! We All Love You And Praying For You!


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

do they have any idea on what it is or if its contageous?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Thanks guys...hubby weighed her this morning when he woke up...67g. That's 13g less than on Sunday. They can lose so much in such a little time. But I think now she has a chance, thanks to srtiels for all her help and everyone else for their support.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

They don't know yet, but they're going to do a culture she said and see. I might just ask for meds for the whole flock as a precaution.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

im glad shes pulling through. this hasnt been easy for you and your husband.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

No it hasn't....he gets really depressed any time something bad happens to one of them. Hopefully she pulls through so he won't be depressed anymore. I'm just plain exhausted and I still got classes lol.


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

Ahhh I went to bed early lastnight so i didnt see this thread but I hope cupcake is alright and makes a full recovery! I cant believe how fast they can go downhill....Ill be anxiously awaiting any news on cupcake!!


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

today is gonna be rough on you. i couldnt sleep because i was too impatient to hear about your news. but you got school. i dont. you need to stay focused :wacko:


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## Debbie05 (Feb 9, 2010)

I just been reading all about poor Cupcake. Hope she is on the road to a full recovery. I'll say a little prayer for her. Good luck!!!!


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## Jemeni143 (Mar 5, 2011)

Just read through everything, sending all my good wishes and positive vibes that cupcake has a full recovery!


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## shelagh (Nov 2, 2010)

I just got home from work, and the first thing on my mind was Cupcake. How is she doing?


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## birdlover4life (Mar 6, 2010)

I had to go to basketball practice but I am glad she is doing well.best wishes from Finnn and I


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

First I want to thank everyone for their support, it really meant a lot. Sadly, 15 minutes after I left the vet, she passed. I didn't get the call till right before I was going to class so I couldn't post till now. I did call Susanne and tell her. It was probably renal failure. I'll know some time next week for sure once the necropsy is done. I think she might have made it if I had stayed, if they had let me tube feed her and give her the shots, it was my voice that kept her going all through the night and then I just left. And she knew I was gone. And that she was alone. She was such a little fighter, it just breaks my heart. But I need sleep now, hubby will kill me if he catches me on the computer. I just wanted to let everyone know. Thank you all. When I have the time, I want to write her a proper eulogy. And the vets made a cast of her feet from clay for us, for no charge. Thanks everyone.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

oh roxy i am so sorry  RIP Cupcake


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## shelagh (Nov 2, 2010)

I'm tearing up now...so sorry for your tough little chick. Again, you are an amazing mom and have done such a great job. I crossed my fingers each time I checked in again today. Get some rest, and we'll all talk again soon. Cupcake, may your flight across the rainbow bridge be well-rewarded.


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## crazy4tiels88 (Aug 10, 2008)

Aww Roxy So Sorry I Will Still Keep You And Your Husband In Prayer


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## shelagh (Nov 2, 2010)

...and I'm into full bawl. I'm so sorry, guys


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## Life-at-the-Zoo (Mar 26, 2011)

Sorry to hear about Cupcake.


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## leeisme (Feb 4, 2011)

Wow I really thought she was going to make it. Rip cupcake. Fly Free little girl. That was so nice of the vet to cast her feet for you. Get some rest Roxy you definitely deserve it.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

(((Hugs))) So sorry to hear she didn't make it, I've kept this page in the background all day hoping for good news.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

Oh God Roxy im so sorry hun, you tried your best and she fought her little heart out to show you how strong she was. RIP Cupcake, please take care of Simba for me.


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

oh no Roxy Im so sorry


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## Duckybird (Sep 13, 2010)

Oh no! Poor Cupcake! I'll be praying for the rest of the flock...and Roxy, please, don't blame yourself.


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## nkeith2 (Feb 6, 2011)

O my, I am soo soo sorry to hear about Cupcake  I wish I was on earlier so I could offer you some support but my hubby and I have been busy all day. Again, I am so sorry and may Cupcake RIP


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## shelagh (Nov 2, 2010)

Not to be morbid, but please update us on the necropsy. It could save your flock, and all this information may yet save lives. Your vet was so kind to create a mold of her feet. I still feel puffy-eyed from mourning her, and as always I send you nothing but light.


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## DollyGirl (Mar 6, 2011)

Oh My Goodness! Oh that was so fast! Please know that we are all hear for you Roxy, so if you need anything, don't hesitate to let us know. This is such a hard thing to go through. I should know as I do Hospice work for a living. Little Cupcake is at peace now and is free to fly amongst the heavens. RIP dear sweet Cupcake.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

oh no...

im terribly sorry to hear this. you tried so hard... i was so sure shed make it 

at least shes no longer suffering and she knows you love her.

rest in peace cupcake... you are still loved and you will be missed very much.

please, do keep us updated on the necropsy.


i am so so sorry roxy. she shouldnt have passed.


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## Jemeni143 (Mar 5, 2011)

Oh Roxy, I'm so very sorry to hear about Cupcake  she was such a trooper and you did everything you possibly could. You and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Thanks guys...its going to take about a week for the results but its worth it. They (the vets) were all really sad too. I wish I had been able to stay with her, it may have helped. Whenever she whined, even though it was because she was in pain, I knew it was her letting me know she was still there. But she was in pain for so long, it may have been for the best. She was the gentlest soul, but now I know what to look for in the future. I took a nap and hubby is making me dinner, we're both pretty upset. She was his girl, his favorite girl, so it hit him pretty hard. I don't blame myself, I know I did everything possible to save her, some things just aren't meant to be. But maybe she'll save my other birds and in the end, it was all worth it. She deserved to be fought for, she deserved everything I gave her. As I told my hubby, she was a life, a life that relied on us to keep her safe and do what was right by her and that's exactly what we did.


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## shelagh (Nov 2, 2010)

You're so right, Roxy, and I'm so glad that you have such a supportive and loving hubby.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

I'm so sorry to hear this you did all you could.


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## Chez (Feb 17, 2011)

So sad for you & hubby 

Your love & commitment in caring for Cupcake is admirable.


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## crinklepot (Nov 18, 2010)

Oh no! I've been reading through this whole thread, hoping for some good news about Cupcake  I'm so sorry she has passed  But at least she's not in pain anymore, and she knows you and your husband loved her very much. I hope you're ok


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

We're making it...I'm going to make hubby a background for his computer of her with as many pix of her I can find, so when I finish it I'll post it here. The vet warned me when I brought her in that a lot of the time when they get a bird in that sick they don't normally make it. She had lost so much weight, she just didn't have a lot left to fight with. Just about everything we think about right now reminds us of her. He made cupcakes last night and drew a tiel head on one for me (he took a picture, I'll post it when I get it off his phone) and he found wine called Cupcake, so once I finish it (its a really strong red so that might take a while) I'm keeping the bottle. Just little things really. She was a gentle bird, maybe just to dainty for this world anymore. I am glad I had her though, she got the chance to be free-flying and live in her own room without bars. And she got the chance to fight to live instead of being given up on. But I couldn't have done it without you guys. Thanks so much.


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## stormdream (Jan 15, 2011)

Roxy,
I just read through this entire thread and I'm so very sorry.  You did everything you could for Cupcake. 

Please take care of yourself. Enjoy that wine in her honor. 

Again, I'm sorry.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

roxy, thats what we're here for. to support eachother, help eachother, and enjoy a mutual interest.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Well I'm glad you guys were here to talk to, it helped me be calm through the night which is what I think she needed. The vet sent us a bouquet of flowers yesterday...how sweet was that?


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

that was super sweet of them, wish we had vets like that here, the only person who cried when simba had passed was the receptionist.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

This is the first vet I've had who really cared. They did everything they could and when that didn't help they called me right away to let me know. Then they made casts of her feet, sent me flowers, and didn't charge me any more than the deposit I'd already paid. Its nice to know there are still people out there who care.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

That was very nice of them


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## calex89 (Oct 28, 2010)

im so sorry to hear that. i hope you are ok


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

We're doing ok...we were talking today and I think he wants to find a Cupcake-like girl to love again. I know its soon, but with my hubby I have always found it makes him feel better to have a new baby to play with. He really likes new things lol. He even found a breeder that has several adorable babies an hour from us. So we may go check them out. No bird can ever replace Cupcake, we can only try to patch the hole she has left. He also says now it doesn't matter how many I have as long as I love each of them. That's pretty easy for me, how can you NOT love these little guys. After Cupcake, I'll never look at a cockatiel the same again. They are too precious to take for granted.


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## birdlover4life (Mar 6, 2010)

Roxy, in honor of Cupcake, I am getting Finn a check up. This thread was so sad so in respect for Cupcake, Finn is going to get a vet visit. You were so good to her, a lo of people wouldn't take a bird in sadly  You were the best mom she eever could have had


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

she was very loved. and the vet you have roxy is excellent! youre making us all jealous on such a caring vet!


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## DollyGirl (Mar 6, 2011)

I had a vet when my cat was dying sit with me and talk about my cat. He wasn't even the vet over seeing my cats care. I think it broke his heart to see a little girl so upset over her beloved cat. He even sent a card and personally signed it when my cat died. Come to find out that vet is still practicing here in utah and will see birds, only bad thing is he's 25minutes away :-( Thats always a sign of truly caring vets


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I'm lucky I found them...I saw the girl vet this time and she was very honest with me, told me that there was a high chance she wouldn't make it but they would try. They sent us a card too, we got it in the mail today. I'm so surprised that they care so much, they really see this as more than just a way to make a living. Have you guys ever heard the song "Daddy's come around to Mama's way of thinking"? Well hubby has come around to my way of thinking...he thinks that we should honor Cupcake's memory by letting more birds into our home to have a good life. We have the space and the money. He wants one that looks similar to her so I'm putting out feelers now. Of course they would be quarantined until the necropsy comes back and my other birds are treated for whatever it was she had and she can never be replaced but we can patch the hole she left. Such a lovely angel.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

Have they told you when the pm results will be back?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

They said it would take about a week, so sometime next week I should know what it was that she died from.


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## shelagh (Nov 2, 2010)

roxy culver said:


> After Cupcake, I'll never look at a cockatiel the same again. They are too precious to take for granted.


So sweet and so true.


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

I am only just seeing this. I am so sorry she lost the battle, she stayed strong and you done everything you could. 

When Jasper was sick he had to be rushed to the Avian Vet and they ended up having to keep him there - we got rang and got an update the same day he was taken in and the Avian Vet said he was doing well, they had given him fluids to keep him going and I had to ring back the next morning to get another update. When I rang the next morning he had passed away at some stage that same morning, he was going good, but it obviously wasn't good enough to keep him alive. 

I truly know how you feel though, when they pass away at the Avian Vets (of all places) and you are not there, it makes you feel heart wrenched that you couldn't be there when the took their last breath. When Squeak passed away, he passed away at home, and I felt some-what better he was there with me when it happened.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Thanks Solace, it hurt so much. When Nips passed, it was at home because I didn't realize she was sick, but Mudflap stayed by her side the whole time. When my hubby found her, Mudflap was still sitting next to her, like he was guarding her. I wish I had been able to do that for Cupcake, but we can't always have everything we want.


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