# Will they ever look normal?



## BoogsWifey (Oct 1, 2012)

Well I had purchased my baby (Pearl) from a local breeder about a week or so ago, had some issues with regressing back to handfeeding and her not answering. She ended up getting back to me yesterday and apologized that she was out of town and made me feel a little more at ease. Well long story short, she had one for sure Pied male baby left that she was looking for a home and ended up giving him to me for very little since she needed to find him a home. I felt bad and said yes so now have two babies... I have 3 questions... 

1) He is a Pied Male, mine is a Pearl (M or F) can they actually be from the same clutch? Mom is a Pearl and dad looked normal but split to Pearl.

2) Do I need to qurantine him since they came from the same house and had shared a cage as of a week ago? I have him in a seperate spare cage and in a different part of the house just incase currently.

3) What the heck did she do to his wings and will they ever look normal?!?! They are so short, I feel like his backside looks funny and my husband said it's probably because his wings are so short but he is a big sweetheart just don't know if it's going to cause any issues. I've attached two pictures...


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

That makes me want to cry. She should have never clipped his wings like that. It's completely inappropriate. 

Can you take a picture with his wings spread? I'm wondering if she did any permanent damage.


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## BoogsWifey (Oct 1, 2012)

meaggiedear said:


> That makes me want to cry. She should have never clipped his wings like that. It's completely inappropriate.
> 
> Can you take a picture with his wings spread? I'm wondering if she did any permanent damage.


Oh don't worry I cried most of the way home 
I wasn't planning on getting a second baby but felt bad so bad for him. If he is on the ground he will flap them and kinda does like a hop. 

I will get a better picture of the wings spread as soon as I get home from work! If there is anything I can give him (any supplements or anything) that will help his wings grow back strong and healthy please let me know.


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## Jony N Me (Sep 20, 2012)

oh my. :censor: <- this is me thinking and saying to myself how mad i am at the clipper right now....i dont know what to say ... my belly hurts , i feel so sad. that is an insane clip job if i have ever seen one... 

please post a picture so the pros bird owners on here can see if there may be permanent damage. i am sooooo sorry this happened. Thank you thank you thak you for taking those birdys! that person doesnt know what the heck they are doing!


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

I don't know of anything to help wings grow back faster, but if you give him some brewer's yeast- that can help with the stress of it. 

this is just my opinion, but i also think it's important you keep his self esteem up. i've read so many things where birds with bad clip jobs get terrible self esteem and it's really sad. any time he flaps- excitedly praise him for it. make him feel like he is great for trying even though the clip has taken away so much from him.


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## Jony N Me (Sep 20, 2012)

great advice from meaggiedear up there....


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## BoogsWifey (Oct 1, 2012)

First thing when I get home I will get the pictures. 

Side note:
I don't know how to bring it up with her that she butchered the wings and please don't ever do it again. She is a breeder and I hate to have any other baby go through what my little guy has just because she didn't know better.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

that is a terrible clip  not your fault obviously. but i am terribly sorry he had to go through that!


some problems that might come up will come up when molting. he is extremely likely to break blood feathers as new feathers grow in. there is no protection for them. 


for now, just make sure you always keep several blankets down on the floor around his cage and playgym, i would have 3 layers of thick blankets to be safe. he will drop like a rock if he tries to fly and he can break legs or his keelbone if there is no protection for him.


it might take a LONG time for him to grow in those wings  when they grow in, i would leave him flighted for awhile so he learns how to use those wings properly after hes been so poorly clipped. 


do you know if he was clipped before he learned to fly? was he ever given the chance?


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## BoogsWifey (Oct 1, 2012)

I'm going to stop at the fabric store on my lunch break to get some good blanket material to layer the bottom of his cage and will just do a shake and wash rotation a few times a week. Will fleece be good or another material? I know I don't want anything too plush where his toes will get caught. 

I believe they were cut very young before he learned how to fly. There is one baby that she is not selling because he is overly aggressive due to the wing clipping.

What happens when a blood feather breaks, what do I need to do? I have Kwik Stop styptic powder on hand as a just incase for my dog's nail trims (luckily haven't had to use it yet.. dang black nails!) can I use that if I need to stop any bleeding? Is this something that can kill him if I don't notice the bleeding?


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## Jony N Me (Sep 20, 2012)

Boogs , ok... i like to consider myself pretty calm and collected.. but i am very upset at her for how she did this clip job. I am not sure how i would approach this *appropriately* as i am sad and upset for your little guy.

Just know in your heart if and when you bring it up to her that you are COMPLETELY justified letting her know it is done outright wrong. I honestly would have to tell her i believed it was wrong if it was me personally but that is JUST me.....if anything ( and if you decide to) you can give her a call and say perhaps you went to a vet, ( whatever you need to do or say to make you feel better about approaching the issue with her) but i would let her know its done wrong and perhaps offer the tools of how to do them correctly in the future?.... i have seen threads from people on here that show the proper way. i can try to find sticky I saw on with diagrams of what feather to cut, etc if you would like?. 

My tiels wings are clipped. ( you can see her in my signature) They were done when I got her… I thought they were done a little short and they are in the process of growing out. I was advised that for the time being before they are clipped again, to let them grow out and to reclip if I wanted. ( anyone let me know if I am mistaken but that’s what I was told). 
I was told because of blood feather breakage/ protection, her going to be molting, and she already had new feathers in, that that would be the way to go. I was also told so she can learn to fly again. ( because I do not know if her wings were clipped right off the bat as a baby and if she knows how to ) knowing how to fly is important to birds
… ill find some pics of her wings growing in. Jony my tiel currently has one long feather coming in. and its unprotected… im constantly worried that shell break it. Its sticks out much father that the others right now. ( sorry this post is so long all! Just trying to share info and pics etc to help ya out)


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

quick stop, corn starch, cayenne pepper powder, and flour you can use any of those, but if a bird breaks a blood feather it is best to pull it or else it is likely to keep bleeding.


i use fleece as a cage bottom in my tiels cage. change it daily to every other day and put in another blanket 


they can bleed to death from blood feathers breaking, so its important those wings are carefully treated during molting... i really hope your bird isnt prone to nightfrights  if not, you should have little problems with them molting


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## Jony N Me (Sep 20, 2012)

Honestly if i was you i would go a bird vet. one that specializes in birds, just to make sure there is no damge and also maybe to train you the best they can how to handle blood feathers if a time comes up you need to do it on your own etc. the vet will understand your concern and appreciate it. they will help you any way you need how  youll get through this  you have mannnnnnyyyyy people on this forum that will help you through it!


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

also, with the vet idea, you can always ask your vet for a letter to send to the breeder about proper wing clipping


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## BoogsWifey (Oct 1, 2012)

His hatch date is 8/16/12, so is it his 6 month molt that I should be the most worried?


I can't thank everyone enough for all the advice and tips to keep the little guy safe. I know i'm freaking out and trying to calm myself down... I'm just so worried about him. Hopefully when I post the pictures when I get home it wont be as bad as we think but I'm kinda doubting that is the case. 

I cover the cage at night, but I don't know if I would be able to hear if he has a night fright episode (I don't know how loud they are or if they just flap their wings about) I may want to move him into the bedroom with us at night just incase. We have a platform in there currently (which you can see in the first picture), should we take it out?

I will for sure be contacting the breeder and that was a great suggestion about the vet visit. It will help break the ice into it for me. She still has a ad up that shows a picture of the baby she is not going to sell with his equally horribly short wings.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

moving him into your room, leaving part of the cage uncovered with a nightlight on is an excellent way to prevent nightfrights 

the ledge is fine to keep in. what you want to do when he is molting is move branches on the bottom so that it is an open space, and toys too. its less stuff for him to bash his wings on 


this thread will help you teach your bird how to fly when the time comes


http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=32235



this thread shows you what proper wing clipping is 

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=682


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## Jony N Me (Sep 20, 2012)

YAY!! that is the thread i was looking for Dally  

although my Tiels wings do look different than yours in my pics Boogs, you can see the new feathers coming in and the long new feather sticking out. ( what we all were talking about earlier about unprotected feathers that will come in and be vulnerable) 
she born on 6/4/12 and has 2 new tail feathers and 1 long wing feather coming in.


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## lethalfire (Aug 29, 2012)

I just don't understand how someone could clip wings like that and think it's ok. A breeder to boot. There is WAY too much info and video's on the internet to claim stupidity.

That is just horrible. Poor things. Even back when I was breeding birds, I loved it when they learned to fly, they got to do laps around my house daily and I didn't clip them til they were getting ready to go to the new home, and I surely didn't butcher their wings. Thank you for taking this guy in.


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## Oni (Feb 20, 2012)

My (previous)budgies wings were clipped that bad when we got them but they started molting in new feathers after a month. Similar to the pic already posted the first 2 fight feathers came through then some nearer to the body. They would buzz their wings like crazy trying to fly (budgies are kind of hyper anyway) but could realistically only bunny hop around. We didn't keep them long enough to become fully flighted but they were doing fine...it just takes time


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## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

Shandy and Sunny's wings were clipped super short too when I got them. Sunny has broken blood feathers on both wings and Shandy has a ton of broken feathers. They both fall like a lead weight when they tried to fly at first. Shandy can make it to the carpeted area now thank goodness and Sunny across the room. It makes me crazy and I have toweling down on the floor to cushion the fall as with any new birds, they spook easy  

I am SO glad you took this baby....


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I agree with everyone about the horrible clip job. You probably know what the wing looks like on a supermarket chicken. When you get the chance to spread the cockatiel wing out and look at it, you should see the same number of joints and the same little pointy tip on the end. It will be covered in dark feathers but you should be able to see and/or feel the general outline of the flesh. Here's a picture from srtiels' photo album at http://s525.photobucket.com/albums/cc331/Mousebirds-and-more/Cockatiel Mutations/ showing an intact wing, so you can get an idea of what to look for along the top edge:









If you go to a vet, you can ask them to pluck some of the clipped feathers so that new ones will grow in quickly. A good vet will know which feathers to take so that the replacement feathers will provide reasonable support when the long flight feathers are molted and new ones start growing in. There's a sticky on dealing with blood feathers at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=33314

You'll probably get a variety of opinions on quarantine, but personally I wouldn't bother on these two. They were cagemates until a week ago and it's unlikely that anything new has happened in the interim.

It's very possible that they are siblings. Mom is pearl and Dad is split pearl, so half the babies are expected to be pearl and half are expected to be something else. If Mom and Dad are both split to pied, it's expected that 1/4 of their babies will be pied.


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## BoogsWifey (Oct 1, 2012)

Ok I was able to get a few pics, they are off my phone sorry for the quality. Also he was not a happy camper, can't say that I can blame him though. 

Sorry it will only let me attach one photo at a time (iPad) :blush:


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## BoogsWifey (Oct 1, 2012)

Picture 2 of 3


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## BoogsWifey (Oct 1, 2012)

Picture 3 of 3


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Wow, the poor bird! Someone seriously needs to educate this breeder on how to properly clip wings. :\ I'm glad your little one is doing well considering, though.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

yeah all those feathers are clipped down to the body, its the worst clip someone can do to a bird, besides cutting the tail feathers too. some people cut those as well 

nothing you can do too much about it now. all you can do is wait a few months for the first molt and try to restrict movement of those wings while molting


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## BoogsWifey (Oct 1, 2012)

I was really hoping it wasn't that bad

I did remember I had a photo bucket though, wanted to share the two pics of him helping me!


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## Jony N Me (Sep 20, 2012)

Lots of love, praises, and scritches ... And be sure to give scritches from me too  I do what to add that your bird is beautiful and they are lucky to have u!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I hate to say this, but I'm honestly not sure those feathers will grow back. There are several birds at the rescue I work with that have clips that look like that permanently. It will all depend on whether the breeder clipped severely enough to do damage to the feather follicles, and unfortunately I don't think you'll know that until he molts.


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## Jony N Me (Sep 20, 2012)

Oh my gosh! Just saw the last pic u posted with the iPad! Cute! Ok ok. It's official I fell in love with your bird! U better give us updates on his progress. I will be following him!


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

enigma731 said:


> I hate to say this, but I'm honestly not sure those feathers will grow back. There are several birds at the rescue I work with that have clips that look like that permanently. It will all depend on whether the breeder clipped severely enough to do damage to the feather follicles, and unfortunately I don't think you'll know that until he molts.


if this is the unfortunate result, we can all help you make sure your birdie is safe and happy  i think this is a small chance, but only time will tell for sure. hopefully it wont come to this  we will help you if you need any advice at all


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

enigma731 said:


> I hate to say this, but I'm honestly not sure those feathers will grow back. There are several birds at the rescue I work with that have clips that look like that permanently. It will all depend on whether the breeder clipped severely enough to do damage to the feather follicles, and unfortunately I don't think you'll know that until he molts.


Follicle damage was my fear too. We will have to wait for him to moult now. Only time will tell.


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## BoogsWifey (Oct 1, 2012)

Thank you all very much, we have our fingers crossed that they will grow back healthy and strong. We love him so much! I will keep everyone updated with photos with his progressive. 

He seems to be losing a lot of the little down feathers 

We did put in the fleece which he very happy about


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm definitely not an expert on these things, but I don't see any reason why the feathers wouldn't grow back normally after a molt. The flesh part of the wing looks unharmed, and the breeder clipped way too many feathers but it looks like at least part of the feather vane is left on all of them. 

Margaret Wissman (a famous avian veterinarian who used to have a monthly column in BirdTalk magazine) recommends cutting the feathers shorter than that, at the point where it's just bare quill, in her article at http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/clip.html She doesn't recommend cutting so many feathers of course. She also says in this article that if the covert feathers are left intact, they will help protect blood feathers that are growing in. Unfortunately I think your bird has had a lot of the coverts trimmed, but it's hard to be sure based on the available pictures. 

BTW I think "he" might be a "she" - I'm seeing wing spots all the way to the body. Wing spot sexing isn't 100% accurate though.


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## BoogsWifey (Oct 1, 2012)

It wouldn't really surprise me if he was a she, she said he was genetically a male but then again.... look how she clipped the wings. I think she has a lot of learning to do before she contiunes to breed her birds. 

We have been calling s/he Marvin (Marvin the Martian with his yellow "crest" ) However, Marvina has a ring to it :rofl: 

We are not for sure on the name we want to see which one he likes. 

I read that article Margaret Wissman wrote, wow they are pretty short! But like you said not nearly as many as the little one has gone


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I just wanted to say that he is completely adorable and I'm so glad you took him in and gave him a good home. Fingers crossed about his feathers.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

My input on this..Luna's wings were clipped just like that. He didn't have any real difficulty getting around or with molting. And fortunately he had already learned to fly before he was clipped.

Yes, it is an awful clip and he won't be able to fly for about 6 months. But he/she will be fine once the primaries begin growing back in. Primaries grow first and then secondaries so he will be able to get his speed up before he will be able to glide. He may be a little clumsy landing without his secondaries. Luna has just turned a year and almost has all his flight feathers back in.


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## BoogsWifey (Oct 1, 2012)

That's awesome! I hope my little one has the good luck Luna had! Did you do anything different during the molts to help protect them other than remove toys and perches that are near the bottom?

Also I did notice last night when I was trying to get some of the pictures. He was on the husbands hand and tried to fly back to his cage. He made it! Well sorta, he was less than a foot away and on the bed but he knew exactly what to do. There is hope!


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## nassrah (Feb 27, 2012)

Something similar happened to our William and he ended up falling in the cage probably during the night and cutting his chest,what took ages to heal-it was very hard and stressful for all of us.Thats why it s so imprtant to keep a close eye on him and use the layers.My husband would keep our bird on layers,playing with him on the floor,to avoid further damage to his keelbone.it did affect his self confidence and it took him some time to recover.His feathers grew back,the cut healed and he suddenly started flying on his own,low at first, and then got better and better.These days,hes a happy little soul,flies 
ok,but I still feel a difference between him and our other bird,Syd,who never had his wings clipped and is a lot more confident.These people that do this to a bird,should be prosecuted.I would make it clear to the lady that she is totally wrong in clipping bird s wings like that,and that she should stop doing it for the sake of not causing any more damage to birds ever.Hope your little sweetie recovers fast and grows wonderful and healthy wings quickly.I would recommend a very good,varied diet,with very good eggfood(we used CEDE with our William and Syd ).It worked for us.Good Luck X x


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Luna got no special treatment. He was not a clumsy baby so we didn't put perches low or pad the bottom or anything. I do know that some babies are clumsy, so if your is a clumsy baby then it would be a good idea to add padding and all that. But for Luna he was kept in a smaller cage until he was about 4 months old and then lived in a big flight cage like any other bird. He started molting his primaries at about 8 months old and he just turned 1 year less than a month ago. He has almost all his secondaries now.

If he is not clumsy and does not lose his balance or miss a jump then I would not do all that special treatment because then you are inhibiting him from using the full cage space for no reason.

Just my opinion and experience on it.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Here's a shot of Luna's wing:


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## BoogsWifey (Oct 1, 2012)

Thank you! I have a couple layers of fleece down at the bottom of the cage and he doesn't seem that clumsy so fingers are crossed!


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## anthrogirl80 (Jun 2, 2012)

Hi, your bird is gorgeous. Congratulations.

My Kevin has an awful wing clip too. My vet said he would recommend his breeder to anyone (because of his awesome personality/temperament) but only if the breeder promised to never, ever do another wing clip!

My vet wants to do a procedure known as 'imping' on Kevin. The vet can actually replace those feathers for your bird and give him flight again. The feathers are taken from another cockatiel (I believe they are molted out) and attached to the wings of our birds. They will molt out eventually to make way for the new flight feathers, but until then, the birds will be able to fly and lead normal bird lives. I am probably going to do it next month for Kevin if something doesn't come up and his blood tests come back normal in early November.

It's certainly something that may be worth talking to your vet about if you become really really concerned with his wing clip.


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