# Large air cell in egg



## monika1980 (Jun 23, 2012)

Hi together,

My nyme is Monika and I just registrated in thes forum. I'm from Austria so my english is not the best. I start with my question immideately - i will introduce myself and my birds later - hope that's OK.

My cockatiels are breeding on 3 Eggs - 2 are fertile. Today is the 19th day of breeding. I candled the egg every 3-4 days. The 1st egg alywas seemd to have a too large air cell. Three days ago a thought I saw the chick moving - but I'm not sure anymore. Today the aircell was almost half of the egg. But i still see veins in it. 
The second egg always looked good - until today. The air cell is about 1/3 of the egg. Today my husband an me saw tiny movements in the egg. 
The humidity in our room is 70 - 75 % - should be enough. I could not discover any cracks or damages on the egg. 

Can I do anything? Do I have to worry? Up to now i cant hear any noises out of the eggs. 

Sorry for not having Photos - i try to take one wheb the male is out of the breeding box.
And sorry for my bad english 

Monika


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Welcome to the forum. It does sound like humidity might be the issue or moisture. Definitely need more info, like what kind of bedding are you using, what kind of nest box. I would spray the sides of the box (not the bedding just the walls) with water to see if that will help with the moisture issue.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I am currently working on and re-doing lot of my candling pixs. I am not sure from your posting what you need info on specifically. Some of the collage/illustrations are labeled, and others need the info added to them. Click on them for a largr view. IF you see any that look like your egg let us know which one.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

And what your egg should look like when candling....


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Another thought is what type of bedding are you using? (click for a larger view)


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## monika1980 (Jun 23, 2012)

Thank you for your replies.

The air chamber is like the one on this photo at the bottom left.










the bedding is hemp and looks like this:










The Box material is wood an 19x29 cm and 20 cm height. Looks like this:









I hanged a damp paper towel on the wall of the box. Is this OK?

Thank you so much for your help!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK....when you look at the egg...are there red veins leading up to the edges of the air cell? If so the baby has not drawn in the blood or the yolk. If no veins it may have drawn in the blood, and if the air cell is too large the membrane may be compressed on it preventing the cjhcik from moving. Gently tap the side of the egg t see if you see any movement. If movement it *might* be trapped. I have an article on how to assist hatch, BUT what I would do is top put a hole in the top to veiw what is going on inside. If the membrane is stuck on the baby and white, it can be wettened by using a wet Q-tip to add moisture. This article has more info: http://justcockatiels.weebly.com/assist-hatches.html


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## monika1980 (Jun 23, 2012)

I can see the veins leading up to the air cell. I can also see little movement in the egg. I read your article bevore. This is very helpful. Do i have to hear the chick beeping in the egg, bevore i open it? I can not hear anything.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Are the veins bright red like the small pix in the left corner of the DIS illustration? If so then the chick is not ready....and the egg should glow red, and visible movement. If the veins re a brownish red like the lowest right corner the baby could be in trouble and might be dying and too late to help. When chilled the blood will get hemolyzed because the red cells are dying causing the brownish color to the veins. The lowest center pix is a doomed live baby, because the air cell is too large from moisture loss.

You are going to have to gauge the status of the egg, and the only way to know may be to carefully open the top.


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## monika1980 (Jun 23, 2012)

Ok i took a picture.

The egg looks like this. You can not see well on this photo how big the air cell is. But as i wrote before its as big as on your picture.










This is a photo of the second egg - no movement anymore. The arcell is the half of the egg.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

The first egg looks normal and not ready to hatch yet, veins are still red. The 2nd egg looks brownish, which could mean the baby has died. Is it really that brown or is it actually red and I just can't tell in the picture?


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## monika1980 (Jun 23, 2012)

Thank you that calms me. So I will wait and hope!


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## monika1980 (Jun 23, 2012)

Hey it's me again - sorry for asking so many questions, but its my first breeding expirience and I'm so excited and nervous.

I just took a short video clip of the egg. http://youtu.be/MikOpbz6n1E

Can anyone gauge how long it should take to pipping / to hear the embryo cheep?
and - is the dark point on the right side close to the air cell the eye of the chick?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Yes that's the baby's eye. As to how long til it pips...if this is day 20 it should be hatching any time now. Trust me, you'll know when the baby starts chirping in the egg.


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## monika1980 (Jun 23, 2012)

Yesterday when I candled the egg the chick was still moving - today there where no movements anymore so I decided to open the egg. First i picked a small hole in the shell and enlagred it gently. I wetted de Membrance and saw the chick - dead. So i moved on with getting the shell off to make this picture.
Did I do something wrong? Was there a chance to help the chick survive? Perhaps then I know better next time.

This is the pic


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Huh, baby looks fully developed but the yolk wasn't absorbed. I'm not sure what happened here but hopefully someone else can take a look. Maybe a moisture issue but I don't know.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

The baby looks pale and weak. Sometimes a vitamin E deficiency can contribute to weak babies prior to right after hatch. The thin veins you are seeing, and are showing a circulatory failure, and could be from a Vitamin A deficiency.

How are the other eggs doing?

I just completed a collage that has alot of info on it. (click for the largest veiw)

May I have permission to save your pix to my files? I am working on an article on candling and egg related problems.

If your birds will eat veggies this link might be helpful in researching nutrient content: 
Vegetable Nutrient List: http://www.healthalternatives2000.com/vegetables-nutrition-chart.html#Amaranth leaves


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## monika1980 (Jun 23, 2012)

There were four eggs. The one I have shown here. One has died in the first days after laying. One has died in the second week. Lucy hat problems with laying the last egg so the vet. had to operate it out. Susanne you may be right that there was a problem with nutrition. I offered them their grain food, egg food, vegetables (but they don't like it very much) and things like boiled unsalted rice, potatoes and sometimes noodles. They also have sepia shell and mineral stones in their cage. I did not give any extra vitamin supplement. 

Susanne, feel free to use my pics. You helped me and perhaps I can help you helping others.

I don't know if I let them breed again. The vet said, due to the operation Lucy has a higher risk to be egg bounded again. So I don't want to animate them to breed again - which means no nestbox and no rich food such as egg food.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Monica...thanks. 

If they are picky eaters you can sprinkle some of this on any foods they will eat: http://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/traceminerals.html Since you are in Austria you can do a Google search to see if it is available overseas.

In looking at your pix I could see several things. The down color looked white, so the baby would have been a whiteface. In looking at the candling pixs, and video it was active but it never did pip, which is another good indication of a nutritional deficiency such as vitamin E. The body was mal-positioned in the egg, and if the little one had piped, with the twisting of the body it could have twisted the yolk sac, which would contstrict the opening of the body to absorb in the yolk. 

If the weather was hot this could also contribute to the parents not utilizing the nutrients properly and the problems with the babies.


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