# dead chick in box



## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi guys just a couple of quick.questions for experienced breeders.
I have a pair who've hatched eggs with a spare male helping.
Icm not sure but think chicks fed ok as oldest look right size and weight.
I noticed a dead one covered a bit with the nesting material. Should I remove it?
Before I never noticed them and just left them, it never did any harm.
I'm nervous about disturbing them as they are not tame, purely aviary birds.
Also I'm keeping my eye out to make sure parents are going in as U havent heard the chicks fed today and when I checked the smallest was begging.
There are 4 live chicks in the box and the spare male is currently sitting.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

ok, remove the dead chick.

can you post photos of the other chicks? experts here can tell you if they look ok or not. if one is dead, there may be a reason why.

how did its crop look, its belly (was it black, or pink), did it look stunted, was there any signs of injury, was its skin white, red or pink last time you saw it alive? was it plucked at all? what is the diet like, what is the temperatures like, what bedding is in the box?


we need more information to help you.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Yes remove the dead chick, and take pictures of it and post here. We may be able to tell you what happened to the baby.


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

Here are the photo's from the 1st one you can see there are four chicks, ranging in ages, the oldest are about 6 or 7 days and their eyes are starting to open, they look good to me.
I wasn't planning to breed this year but the birds had other ideas.
I do worry as there is a spare male from last years clutch who is unrelated to the pair but he is sitting during the day. He is the one in the pictures and is quite small for a tiel.
If you look to the left of the babies you can see yellow fluff partially buried by the wood shavings, looks about 3 days old to me?
I've used wood shaving sucessfully many times in the past.
These are a new pair to me, mum is lutino and did is wf split for pearl.
I saw the pair go in and feed early evening but now both males are out just leaving mum in.
I'm feeding a good seed mix with green veggies as they ignore anything else.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

the youngest baby looks like his skin is red, looks like the parents were not giving him enough fluids, dehydration can cause reddened skin, but it looks only slight bit red compared to the others. sometimes the youngest gets harder food because the older chicks are able to have harder foods so the parents feed him but hes not getting as much moisture as he should, because there's an age gap. thats just what i see going on, perhaps others will chime in on what they think.

wood shavings are the best to use, they got good enough amount of bedding. i would remove the shells when you get a chance too.

diet sounds ok, have they eaten egg at all? scrambled egg is really good for feeding babies too.


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

No but I have loads of egg.
I usually buy egg food but was told its too much protein?
the trouble is with 3 of them sitting the chicks are never alone.
So I'm worried about upsetting the adults, and they bite hard!
I'll replace thier water tomorrow. I normally do it twice a week but I can do everyday if need be.


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

Egg is to much protein for the average every day cockatiel. it causes them to go into breeding mode as well as, to much protein is not always good.

Since your pair is nesting, or whoever is feeding the babies, it is ok to feed egg. this is because the parents are 1 not absorbing as much protein as they would if they were eating for themselves, 2 because protein is good for the growing babies, and 3 the parents need it as well as they are giving most of the nutrients usually absorbed to the babies

pretty much egg is only given when they are nesting or plucked by my terms.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> Egg is to much protein for the average every day cockatiel. it causes them to go into breeding mode as well as, to much protein is not always good.


Egg is only too much protein if pellets are given as a regular part of the diet. Since these birds are not getting pellets then egg is OK to give regularly, especially for the babies. 

The youngest does look dehydrated and this could be why the youngest baby died. You do need to remove the body, so you can get clear pictures as to why the baby passed. It may save the other baby's lives. Also removing the egg shells is a good idea too, as they can get wrapped around an unhatched egg and trap the baby inside. You can use a spatula to move the adults out of the box before you do anything inside it so they don't bite you.


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

Ok thanks.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

* mum is lutino and did is wf split for pearl.*
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The mother must be split to WF too, because you have 1 WF baby.

You might want to keep an eye on the babies. Especially since there is the extra male. He may be doing fine, getting along with the parents as a helper, BUT I have also had threesome pairs where the extra male will become dominant and not let the parents feed the babies. So checking that they are fed is a priority. You can also assist feed the ones that are not being fed enough: http://justcockatiels.weebly.com/assist-feeding-chicks-in-the-nest.html


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

katew said:


> No but I have loads of egg.
> I usually buy egg food but was told its too much protein?
> the trouble is with 3 of them sitting the chicks are never alone.
> So I'm worried about upsetting the adults, and they bite hard!
> I'll replace thier water tomorrow. I normally do it twice a week but I can do everyday if need be.


i would change their water every day regardless, it should be changed daily


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

So I'm keeping a good eye today.
Fresh food, water, veg and dry eggfood has gone in.
The adults are taking turns going in, then coming out and filling up whilst another goes in.
Can't find dead baby, maybe under others.
There are 2 wf babies! Don't know parents breeding line as they're rescues.
The young chick seems very red, but dad just filled up on egg food and water and went in so I'm hoping thet'll realise.
Can't put pic up cos on phone.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

If you can it would be a good idea to give the youngest some coconut water to rehydrate him. And yea, it sounds like the dead body has been buried.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

the parents likely flattened it, parent birds do this if a baby dies.... i would still worry about bacterial contamination... 

dont worry about disturbing them, knock on the nestbox once a day, the parents will have notice you are coming in, they will leave the box, do what you need to do, and they will return. parents can be away from the nest for an hour, its fine. if they havent abandoned the nest with you taking photos, theyre not likely to leave the nest for removing empty egg shells and a dead chick. you need to check the box daily to catch problems early. if you are having dehydration problems, you must step in before you lose another one. give him a drop of coconut water (not coconut milk) or pedialyte to rehydrate him. the parents should not abandon the nest. countless other breeders check in regularly and dont have problems with it.


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

roxy culver said:


> If you can it would be a good idea to give the youngest some coconut water to rehydrate him. And yea, it sounds like the dead body has been buried.


This is probably a very stoopid question but does this mean I leave the dead one?
The birds know when I'm looking as I have to unclip a wire front and they hear me shooting the bolts across.
What sort of store will I get coconut water from?
The birds are leaving the nest but I just can't get there quick enough.
Also I have a long scoop on a wire so can scoop egg shell with that.
The parents have been in and out and so has the spare male.
So hopefully the chicks are well fed.
I would like to see them with no adults in as I don't know if there's more than 4.
Thank you all for your help, I do stress slightly when breeding!
But have never had a clutch where an adult is always in the box, or seen a dead chick to worry about removing it, my previous pairs have removed the shell themselves as well.
I guess I've just been spoilt!
I have added dry egg food.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

You can get a kitchen spatula to push the parents out of the box. Then block the hole so they can't get back in while you dig out the dead one and shells.

You can get coconut water from the supermarket.


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

Thanks. 
I will do it tomorrow. It's 23.15 here now.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Yes definitely remove the dead body, conditions in captivity are different than in the wild.


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## Cryren8972 (Oct 3, 2007)

Always, always, when you see a baby buried, get it immediately and check to make sure it's actually dead. I have found a cold, lifeless chick, put it on a heating pad, and had it survive and go to a wonderful family. As for now, please get the dead chick out so that the other babies don't end up with a bacterial infection. I know I'm just repeating what's been said, but I just wanted to make sure you were clear that the baby needs to come out of the box.


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

I did it, the chicks were in their huddle sat on it.
I moved them, scooped it out then the little chick fell back into the hole so I pushed him gently back into the huddle. He's got spunk!
I post pic later, on phone at mo.
I hope they're ok. Worried I hurt 1 or something.
2 let their heads droop and stopped peeping after I moved them.
Wont be happy til parent goes in now.
At least I know their nice n warm.


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

Mums gone in, everything crossed it'll go well from here on in.
I'll check quickly later.
The youngest wasn't so red today, more a healthy pink like the others.
Pic later, although its not great.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Any pix are great pix especially of babies!



> 2 let their heads droop and stopped peeping after I moved them.


This is how they sleep, they look rather silly face planted in the bedding but they're fine like that.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> 2 let their heads droop and stopped peeping after I moved them.


Young babies get tired very quickly and it's normal for them to conk out shortly after the excitement of being handled.


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

That's cute.
I'm not posting pics tonight as I'm too tired to boot up the pc.
I need to hang my head.


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

The small chick has died. I removed it and will post pics later, it was still warm but eyes sunk in. So definaltly passed.
The others are begging. They always beg when I look, is that normal? I don't remember that with other clutches I had.
Also keeping eye on adults and checking food supply.
Dead chick was a lot smaller than rest of them.
It's so not fun having inexperienced parent birds.
I think I might have to co-parent but I don't want to really l.
Unless completely necessary.
Hopfully can use bent spoon method but I think they're too young and I hate syringe feeding.
The parents were doing ok.
I knew something was up today as they were running round agitated.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

It was probably from the dehydration since the baby was so red before, it wasn't getting enough fluids. This can cause the babies to be smaller. Mine always hiss at me when I open the box, they don't beg at me unless I'm feeding them.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

What do the babies' crops look like? They should be quite full, larger than the babies' heads. If the crops are always small when you look then the parents might not be feeding them properly. If there's something else that's abnormal about the crop then there might be some other problem, for example yeast infection. If you can post nice clear pictures of the babies' crops, there are people here who can help tell you whether it looks normal or not. If you can post nice clear pictures of the baby that just died, we might be able to tell you what happened.


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

I have nice clear pics of the baby that died. I'll set laptop up later for you to help me.
Crops are full, I can see seed through the skin but also getting egg food and veggies.
Adults drinking well now too as I added extra water feeder in the indoor area.
Used baby monitor to listen and have heard chicks being fed all day. 
Normally I just check once a day, they get on with it and chicks crops are full.
But last year I had a disaster! 
www.talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=24279
And because I think I aspirated her I am nervous about hand rearing, also I have commitments mid August which we booked before any eggs came as there wasn't supposed to be any breeding this year.
As it is a friend will check daily f


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

here are some photo's.
The baby in the bag (glove) is the 1st dead one.
The other one is the one I lost today.
I've also included the one I took of the babies today.
My phone battery ran out so I didn't take one tonight.
Mum was sat in the box I saw 2 chicks with heads up hissing at me!
The nearest chick had a lovely full crop.
I think the other chick was hidden under mum because she seemed to be hiding something.
I hope its ok but I'm not gonna disturb mum at bedtime.
Also I've heard feeding going on all day.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Can you take the baby out of the glove..and then take a picture of both babies with their bellies facing the camera? That would help us determine if they died from dehydration.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

The other babies look okay, but you should form a "bowl" in the middle of the box and put the babies there. Then when they go to poop, they will back up to the wall, poop, and then go back to the middle. This way they won't be huddled near their own feces.


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

bjknight93 said:


> Can you take the baby out of the glove..and then take a picture of both babies with their bellies facing the camera? That would help us determine if they died from dehydration.


Ok I'll try.
I think they've gone in the bin.
:blush:


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

bjknight93 said:


> The other babies look okay, but you should form a "bowl" in the middle of the box and put the babies there. Then when they go to poop, they will back up to the wall, poop, and then go back to the middle. This way they won't be huddled near their own feces.


Ok, I will get out there tomorrow,
between feeds and forecast thunderstorms!
Thanks.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

the black belly also would indicate dehydration, that does seem to be the cause of death here.


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

I thought so.
I tried with the coconut water but it didn't go great.
When I checked and took photo there was something black on one of the chicks this morning.
I looked again and checked photo and it was gone.
I checked all three as I was worried it was a fly or earwig.
I think it may have been a black sunflower seed case, as there are a few in the new batch of food.
The male has been in and I know he's good at keeping them clean.
They're so big now!
I'm always amazed how fast they grow.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

just keep checking on them 

you might have had a problem with the youngest chicks because of the age difference, the parents might be first time parents and arent experienced enough to feed the younger ones a more liquid feeding rather than more thicker feeding like the other babies. this would cause the younger ones to have dehydration problems, but sometimes it is too late to save them. the parents might be fine with the three they have left. have you checked the abdomen of the living chicks? how do they look? you should not see black in them. black intestines often mean dehydration. red skin is a sign of it as well


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

In thr pic I took this morning they look a bit redder than I'd like but no black on their belly.
I checked a bit later and they look a better pink now.
Parents eating lots of veg they've never eaten before so I think that'll help as not just dry seed.
Also my male is drinking a lot after eating the egg food.
I've been gardening so I could keep a better eye on them.


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