# PBFD or...?



## Setsuykie (Jun 13, 2011)

I have three Cockatiels: Peachy, Sweetie, and Daisy. Sweetie and Daisy share a cage while Peachy is alone in his. When I got my first Cockatiels, I didn't know they needed more to eat than just seeds; I just recently began giving them egg and vitamins in their water. They are all healthy and very playful but Sweetie seems to have some molting trouble. When we bought her, her tail was very mangled and not really there, we were told she was treated badly by the other tiels and they broke her tail. She started growing a tail feather but it was awfully skinny and very bent. She would screech and bite if you tried to touch it; I think it might be painful? Anyways, so I came home from college one day and I found that feather pulled out and at the bottom of the cage. It seems like she pulled it out because it had blood and a little bit of flesh at the tip. I cleaned her up and she was okay but now two weeks later, she has begun molting and two more of these feathers are growing in her tail the same way as the first did. I read that this could happen from a deficiency of Vitamin A and the protein Lysine. I am going to the pet store later to buy some so I can give it to her and see if it improves but I am also concerned that it may be PBFD. I'm just confused because I thought PBFD affects all feathers and she has no other symptoms. Below I have some pictures of her tail feathers. I'm sorry that it's a bit blurry, she's extremely curious and it was hard trying to get a picture with her trying to peck the camera.


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

I got mine to eat carrot and carrot top,
This helped with the problem I had with mine, mine had lots more symptoms than that and I thought I'd lose the lot! also dandelion leaves washed 1st.


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## Setsuykie (Jun 13, 2011)

katew said:


> I got mine to eat carrot and carrot top,
> This helped with the problem I had with mine, mine had lots more symptoms than that and I thought I'd lose the lot! also dandelion leaves washed 1st.


Thank you for the advice! How often did you give it to them?


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

please do not add vitamins in their water, over time it will overdose them and cause problems... you dont want to poison your birds with vitamins. instead, offer veggies and pellets and grains (cooked rice, cooked pasta)


it could be follicle damage in his tail.


you could test for PBFD if you are nervous about it.

you can get it done through a few companies.

i've used this one for sexing 2 of my lovebirds, you can use them for infectious diseases too.

http://www.healthgene.com/avian-dna-testing/infectious-dna-testing/


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Vegetables can provide all the vitamin A she needs with no risk of overdose. Try hanging some leafy greens in the cage for her to nibble on.

If you go to http://www.lafebercares.com/contact.html you can contact the Lafeber company and ask for free samples of cockatiel-size Nutriberries. They're nutritionally equivalent to pellets (which have ALL the nutrients that birds are known to need) and most cockatiels love them. Most pellet companies will send free samples of their product if you ask them, but convincing a cockatiel to eat pellets is usually harder than convincing them to eat Nutriberries.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I think that looks like follicle damage from repeatedly broken feathers. Can you check the powder down feathers under her wings? From what I've read, these are often the first feathers affected in the cockatiel variant of PBFD. If they're fine, I wouldn't worry.


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## Setsuykie (Jun 13, 2011)

enigma731 said:


> I think that looks like follicle damage from repeatedly broken feathers. Can you check the powder down feathers under her wings? From what I've read, these are often the first feathers affected in the cockatiel variant of PBFD. If they're fine, I wouldn't worry.


She's fine all over. It's just her tail feathers that keep growing like that.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i would highly suspect follicle damage and possible vitamin deficiencies. so offer her veggies and dont give her vitamins in her water... 

also, it may be helpful to add some rosemary to her diet. give her rosemary once or twice a week, its good for molting.


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## Setsuykie (Jun 13, 2011)

Thanks a lot everyone! I really appreciate the help. Also happy I don't have to worry about PBFD. I'd be heartbroken to know my Sweetie would die if she had it. Does follicle damage get better?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

DallyTsuka said:


> also, it may be helpful to add some rosemary to her diet. give her rosemary once or twice a week, its good for molting.


Huh. I've never heard that before. Do you know what it does that helps? I'm always looking for things to help with feather growth.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

follicle damage is generally permanant... try improving her diet and try the rosemary. carrots are good as theyre good on vitamin A, and so is brocholli. vitamin A is needed for molting. you might be able to improve her feathers, but i cant say for sure they will get completely better. i see a few stress bars in other feathers on her body, meaning she is lacking some nutrients.

i wonder, knowing shes on an all seed diet, seeing the stress bars (weak points in the feathers), and the messed up tail feathers... im wondering if shes lacking vitamin A and protein in her diet which is causing brittle feathers. It kind of looks like shes banging up those tail feathers as they grow in... its worth a shot, improving her diet and seeing how the new feathers come in after awhile.


my tsuka has feather problems too. his are caused by poor genetics and he came from a smoking home and the smoking caused some issues. he's got issues with his wings like no tomorrow. sometimes they improve, then other times he breaks them easily or they fall out or grow in short and stunted and he even gets feather cysts.

with Sweetie's tail, you should keep an eye out for feather cysts if there is follicle damage going on, as they may occur in damaged follicles like they do with my tsuka.

since tsuka has been on a diet with seeds, pellets, and veggies, he has improved a little bit, his problems arent like before. he used to be on seed and veggies only but i find the little bit of pellets in his diet helped a bit with his plumage and now it even glows where it has recently grown...

so i am thinking Sweetie will need a more varied diet, and more veggies. Start slow. Try different ways of serving veggies. cut them up into discs, bite sized chunks, strips, whole, seed sprinkled on top, through the cage bars, hanging from the top, bowl in different areas of the cage, a plate on the floor..... you never know how she may like eating her veggies. each bird is different. even cook or leave raw... your bird may like something different. always wash veggies before you offer them to your bird


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

enigma731 said:


> Huh. I've never heard that before. Do you know what it does that helps? I'm always looking for things to help with feather growth.


ive read it here before... i will try to dig it out for you lol its been awhile


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Setsuykie said:


> Thanks a lot everyone! I really appreciate the help. Also happy I don't have to worry about PBFD. I'd be heartbroken to know my Sweetie would die if she had it. Does follicle damage get better?


Generally no, although if there's also a vitamin deficiency you might see improvement with better nutrition. Definitely stop giving vitamins in the water, and add some fresh veggies. Your birds will love it. You also might look into adding pellets to their seed mix, or Nutriberries, which are similar in nutritional value. Variety is very important in a bird's diet.

ETA: lol Dally and I posted at the same time. Her info is better.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

here you go enigma 

http://www.talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=19407&highlight=rosemary


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Argh, simulpost again! Thanks so much.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

not a problem.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I tried googling for rosemary and molting and didn't get a lot of results. But Kaytee is putting rosemary extract in their molting and conditioning food, so apparently rosemary must have a reputation as a molting food: http://www.kaytee.com/products/fortidiet-pro-health-molting-conditioning-small-birds.php


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I also wanted to add that the tropical fruit Nutriberries are supposed to be very good for Vitamin A. They have dried papaya in them. You can crush them up and add them to her seed mix if she doesn't accept them right away. That might be a good way to get her some vitamin A right away while you work on adding in veggies.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The tropical fruit Nutriberries are aimed at larger parrots so I don't know how well a cockatiel could handle them. But the ordinary cockatiel-sized Nutriberries will have vitamin A added to them, and green or orange veggies are loaded with beta carotene which is a vitamin A precursor.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

tielfan said:


> The tropical fruit Nutriberries are aimed at larger parrots so I don't know how well a cockatiel could handle them. But the ordinary cockatiel-sized Nutriberries will have vitamin A added to them, and green or orange veggies are loaded with beta carotene which is a vitamin A precursor.


They work fine if you crush them. Roo loves them in addition to the regular ones.  I got that tip from my tiel rescue friend.

ETA: they actually say theyre for parakeet, lovebirds, and tiels on the bag. Maybe you're thinking of a different product? Or there might be two sizes.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

ive had the tropical fruit ones for small birds too... so im pretty sure they may come in two sizes


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## katew (Sep 6, 2011)

I feed carrots daily, home grown too small for us but the birds love them. Sometimes i put a tub of cress in and grow dandelions in pots, people think I'm crazy but I put the pots in my av iary and christmas has come! I wonder if any australian friends on here could tell us what they've seen wild tiels eat? I've also got an Indian ringneck neck and some friends here told me they've seen the wild flocks eating certain flowers. I also add a small amount of egg food to their food once a wk.


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## Sar (Sep 22, 2010)

Can I just ask about the rosemary? Do you stick a branch in the cage for them to nibble or does it need cooking first?


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i think you can offer it dry. i do. i sprinkle some on their veggies


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Oh, I was thinking fresh like a green. Do you think that would work also? Roo eats cilantro that way.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

fresh would be better i think too, i need to get my hands on some soon lol but our herbs from the stores have been poor this year, they die no matter what, bad crops... so we gotta wait til next year to get good herbs.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Rosemary is used as an ornamental plant where I live and is easily available at nurseries. Planting it in the back yard wouldn't work in some climates, but you might be able to buy it and keep it as a potted plant.


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## Sar (Sep 22, 2010)

tielfan said:


> Rosemary is used as an ornamental plant where I live and is easily available at nurseries. Planting it in the back yard wouldn't work in some climates, but you might be able to buy it and keep it as a potted plant.


I have a lovely little tree of it in my garden that I sowed as a seed. Can I cut branches off and just offer them? I think my tiels would love ripping the leaves off, although the budgies would be scared to start with...


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i can get them as a potted plant, but theyve been poor lately and die no matter how well you care for it lol so i will wait til next year to get fresh rosemary


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> I have a lovely little tree of it in my garden that I sowed as a seed. Can I cut branches off and just offer them?


I don't know of any reason not to. It's considered to be a bird-safe plant, and they say it makes your house smell great.

DallyTsuka: I came across a comment at http://www.avianweb.com/finchcanaryfood.htm that said it's helpful to give a little hemp seed (protein source) to molting birds. Hemp is very nutritious in general so maybe it would be beneficial to Tsuka if he isn't getting it already.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i will have to find it then at a health food store as our seed mix im pretty sure does not contain hemp seeds


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

One caution on the hemp seed though: it's so nutritious that some people consider it to be a breeding trigger/ breeding food. I don't know how true this is (Vlad eats it and is still clueless) but if Tsuka starts getting hormonal you might want to cut back on the hemp.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

tielfan said:


> One caution on the hemp seed though: it's so nutritious that some people consider it to be a breeding trigger/ breeding food. I don't know how true this is (Vlad eats it and is still clueless) but if Tsuka starts getting hormonal you might want to cut back on the hemp.


Wow, I never knew that! My birds have always just had it in the mix that I buy. They don't much seem to like it, though. Mostly those seeds get kicked out of the bowl.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Mostly those seeds get kicked out of the bowl.


I have this little trick for turning rejected foods into desirable foods: I hold them in my fingers for the birds to eat. That's how I got my gang to start eating hemp seed. Now they don't need any extra encouragement.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp#Nutrition : "Calories/100 g 567 kcal
Protein 30.6
Carbohydrate 10.9
Dietary fiber 6
Fat 47.2
Saturated fat 5.2
Palmitic 16:0 3.4
Stearic 18:0 1.5
Monounsaturated fat 5.8
Oleic 18:1 (Omega-9) 5.8
Polyunsaturated fat 36.2
Linoleic 18:2 (Omega-6) 27.6
Linolenic 18:3 (Omega-3) 8.7
Linolenic 18:3 (Omega-6) 0.8
Cholesterol 0 mg
Moisture 5
Ash 6.6
Vitamin A (B-Carotene) 4 IU
Thiamine (Vit B1) 1 mg
Riboflavin (Vit B2) 1 mg
Vitamin B6 0 mg
Niacin (Vit B3) 0 mg
Vitamin C 1.0 mg
Vitamin D 0 IU
Vitamin E 9 IU
Sodium 9 mg
Calcium 74 mg
Iron 4.7 mg
Hempnutcomposition.gif

Approximately 44% of the weight of hempseed is healthy edible oils, containing about 80% essential fatty acids (EFAs); i.e., linoleic acid, omega-6 (LA, 55%), alpha-linolenic acid, omega-3 (ALA, 22%), in addition to gamma-linolenic acid, omega-6 (GLA, 1–4%) and stearidonic acid, omega-3 (SDA, 0–2%). Proteins (including edestin) are the other major component (33%), second only to soy (35%). Hempseeds amino acid profile is close to "complete" when compared to more common sources of proteins such as meat, milk, eggs and soy.[23] The proportions of linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid in one tablespoon (15 ml) per day of hemp oil easily provides human daily requirements for EFAs. Unlike flaxseed oil, hemp oil can be used continuously without developing a deficiency or other imbalance of EFAs.[24] This has been demonstrated in a clinical study, where the daily ingestion of flaxseed oil decreased the endogenous production of GLA.[24]

Hempseed is an adequate source of dietary fiber, calcium and iron, and contains antioxidants and chlorophyll. Whole hempseeds are also a good source of phosphorus, magnesium, zinc, copper and manganese.

Hempseed is usually very safe for those unable to tolerate nuts, gluten, lactose, and sugar. In fact, there are no known allergies to hemp foods. Hempseed contains no gluten and therefore would not trigger symptoms of celiac disease."


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Wow. I'm definitely going to work on getting Roo to eat hemp now.  I think her problem is that she still doesn't recognize a lot of different seeds as food. You and Dally always have the best info. Thank you.


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## Sar (Sep 22, 2010)

tielfan said:


> I don't know of any reason not to. It's considered to be a bird-safe plant, and they say it makes your house smell great.


I just checked cockatiel cottage and rosemary is on their list of safe foods so I am off outside to cut a branch


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

ok ill give tsuka and dally some then. the lovebirds are hormonal enough...

i can always give it as a treat rather than part of their meal if they get hormonal, right?


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