# Shandy Update



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

Well the odd seizures seem to hit every 7 days...we had one or two tonite and one a week ago... I had been waiting til the test results of the fecal/swabs came back and they were negative. The vet and I decided to hold off on the bloodwork to see if he had another...and he did. He is eating and drinking like normal. Loving kale and veggies and cilantro. I ordered Harrison's boost and the high potency pellets to add in. Have noticed a couple of broken feathers too but attribute that to his attempting to fly when he has these episodes and landing on the wooden floor. After the episode is over, he seems ok..but drowsy. He is normal some days. Sleepy others. Just a mystery.

Calling the vet tomorrow to take him for the blood draw. We'll do just a toxicity test so as not to stress him.


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

If you're drawing blood, I'd really urge you to get an organ function panel as well. It's up to you and the vet, of course, but it isn't that much more blood, and it could detect potential other issues, like liver or kidney problems that might be contributing to the seizures. I'm sorry to hear the episodes are still happening, but glad he seems to be doing well the majority of the time.


----------



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

My vet talked to the lab to see the minimums she'd need and it was quite a bit more for the full panel than the toxicity test. The lab actually told her to just do a nail clip draw in this case since the attempts to draw the full amount from his body werent successful and he got so stressed after. It took him a couple of days to regroup from the visit before... Let alone Sunny still is lunging and not trusting after just going there and meeting the vet and being restrained for a "get to know you" visit. I will let them try one poke I guess and if not..then toenail.

Looking at this pic..you can see the size difference for "brothers". Maybe he does have something wrong with him organ wise. I know with dogs liver issues cause smallness, etc. Maybe he has brain issues or toxicity, etc from his first home. Hard to say. When the breeder contacted the family to ask, she replied "I dont know what you mean...those aren't my birds" Sure love the little guy.


----------



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

Went to the vet today after work. The super awesome avian vet tech came in on his day off to do the blood draw!!!










We were able to get enough for a full panel from a nail clip and did another fecal too. He is up to 85 grams from 83  He is loving the loot here 

Unfortunately he had a seizure episode an hour after we got home. He didnt fall this time but head tilted, eyes open this time, non responsive to touch or voice. I scooped him up and held him..then slowly walked to the kitchen to get the camera as the vet asked me to film the next one. Never thought it would be an hour later 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwRs3hsMLOI

Test results will take a few days


----------



## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

Wow he looks like me when i'm postictal.

I hope you get an answer soon and he's ok  He seems very comfortable at the vets!


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

That doesn't look as bad as the last video you posted. Actually if you hadn't shown me the first one, or if I didn't know he had a history of seizures, I would say he just looked spooked in this video.


----------



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

No, they arent like the first one anymore. He is just non responsive at first, usually almost falls and then disorientated for a bit. Woosy. Like a drunk bird. Then he is totally fine. He is sleepy tho a lot but normal a lot too! He does the wing wild flapping once he comes out of it and gets spooked once he wakes up and then he tries to fly. He is pigging out on pellets now. Like nothing happened. My vet said if it is nutrition based, they should lessen in severity and instances and maybe another few months of this and he'd be good...


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I think it's promising that they are lessening in severity and that he seems able to recover faster. I also am not sure the sleepiness is abnormal -- both of my birds sleep a lot, and they are healthy.


----------



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

Shandy's bloodwork all came back normal. No toxicity. We didnt have enough blood to do a liver or calcium test tho. My vet doesnt want to stress him with another vet trip. She said in a month or so she'll come to my house and do a blood draw instead. She is giving me valium and will teach me how to inject in the case a seizure is long lasting. She said at this point it is wait and see since it isnt toxicity. He is eating good and eats his calcium rich foods, vitamin rich foods, is gobbling down boost spread on a cracker like it is a treat  

So, it is either epilepsy, stress or diet. At least it isnt toxins.


----------



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

He had another seizure at noon when I was home for lunch. I was walking out of the living room and heard him fall to the bottom of the cage. Wing up. Disorientated. Tried to crawl up and couldnt. I got him out and put him on the padded floor and waited til he was ok before I went back to work. Lasted a minute or two. He is fine now, singing to beat the band.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncLL3iABSBs&feature=youtu.be

He has had 6 in the 6 weeks I've had him  I am sure this is why his family gave him back to the breeder.

It has to be stress or epilepsy as he is really normal inbetween. In a month if this is still the deal, we'll start him on potassium bromide I guess.


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear that.  Could you talk with your vet about putting him on longterm anti-seizure meds? I know some birds do take them regularly.


----------



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

Yes..we are already talking about that and will start him on potassium bromide. I like that better for dogs anyway vs phenobarbital - less lethargy, etc


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I wish you and him the best of luck! He's so lucky to have you for his mom.  I hate to think what might have happened if he'd stayed with the other family.


----------



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

I think of that too. He is SO sweet and like a little baby. So loving and trusting. And Sunny is doing so well here too. I am not regretful for taking him; but wish I was prepared obviously.


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Have you let the breeder know what's going on with him? She probably should be notified, in case there's a genetic issue contributing to this.


----------



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

I did. And she said she has never had anything like this in 10 years.


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Well, unfortunately things like that do happen.  I'm the oddball in my family with a genetic autoimmune disease that nobody else has. But it's still good that she's aware.


----------



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

She did feel bad and asked to be kept informed. So that is good. 

My vet feels bad. Breeder feels bad. Everyone does. It just isnt fair. But it is what it is and we'll get thru it


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Yes, that's a good attitude. The irony is that Shandy is probably less bothered by it than any of the rest of you. Try to keep that in mind -- he's still having a great life 99% of the time.


----------



## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

Since we are leaning toward deficiency nutrition wise- it is a terrible idea to give them a vitamin boost for a while to see if that corrects shandy's problem?

i was looking at this:

http://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/AB10226.html


i mean- you would need to use a minute amount, but it might help him feel better faster?


----------



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

I am giving him Harrison's Booster daily on a cracker - he really likes it. I just warm it up and spread it with a toothpick  munch munch munch

I am hoping it is nutrition or stress. Those will correct. Epilepsy can be managed/helped but it is long term


----------



## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

I am hoping it's nutrition for you as well. He seems too content and happy for it to be stress to me.


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I wouldn't give synthetic vitamins, because bad reactions to them can cause neurological symptoms all on their own. So it could potentially worsen things, or at least add another variable that could make it harder to figure out what his real seizure triggers are.


----------



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

Harrison's Booster is all natural tho..so that should be good. Happy guy has been scampering around around for hours tonite. Boy I wish there was an answer to this.


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Sorry, I didn't mean the booster -- that's fine. I meant that I wouldn't do a multivitamin in his water or anything like that.


----------



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

Shandy started potassium bromide on Thursday. Two drops on an oyster cracker and I hold it and he eats it. He is eating pretty much most of it, so I think it is good. His new cage should get here tomorrow or Tuesday so I'll set that up right next to the other one. I will attach the cages with a rope perch so they can play in and off of both. Then he'll go in there for sleeping/when I am not home.

He had a seizure yesterday but he came out of it way quicker than Tuesday's. Luckily it was when I was walking by the cage and noticed him getting "trance like" so I nudged his belly...no reaction. Then one wing went all the way up on its own and I cupped him in my hand and got him to the padded floor for safety.

I hope the separate cages doesnt stress him out too much. These boys have been together since day 1.


----------



## Madeline410 (Jul 13, 2012)

I'm so sorry you're going through this. What a lucky bird to live in such a loving home, though.


----------



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

He had another seizure tonite after work. I need to find someone somewhere that has had an epileptic bird or one that seizures that is not calcium or toxicity related

He was all happy when I got home and then I changed into warm dog walking clothes and looked in and he was in a trance and wings were partly up in the air. I reached in and grabbed him out - no response. This wasnt a quick one and he was shaking. But he is ok now. He is a bit stressed seeing the new cage (which I am not thrilled with and I hate the door so I'll have to fix that) and I have to figure out how to attach it to the other cage and keep it stable so he wont go in it til tomorrow. Need more zip ties. Need more rope perches, etc. I called the vet to see if she wanted me to up the potassium bromide but I know it takes time  I just want him better. He is only 1.5 years old.


----------



## Bailey's Mum (Sep 18, 2012)

Keep at it, he's lucky to have you.
It would break my heart to see xx


----------



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

I made an appt with a diff avian vet 2 hours from here for Friday afternoon. I found out today that he is the first seizure cockatiel my current vet has treated and that isnt enough for me so I am taking 1/2 day vac and driving to this other, extremely recommended avian vet. I have someone making me a custom sized table to put his new cage on so it fits tightly to the other cage yet doesnt take up the space underneath as that is where my dogs favorite bed is (electric bed and the outlets are right there). So the saga continues


----------



## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

I am sending you tons of positive thoughts. I'm so sorry you and Shandy are having to go through all this. It's so much in such a little amount of time.


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> I need to find someone somewhere that has had an epileptic bird or one that seizures that is not calcium or toxicity related


Maybe it would be helpful to talk to elinore. Her cockatiel Maggie had a long hard fight against epilepsy. Unfortunately the story had an unhappy ending, but she is probably more knowledgeable and experienced with this problem than anyone else here. Maggie's rainbow bridge thread is at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=23462


----------



## daverohmfeld (Oct 26, 2012)

Could it be a problem with the birds diaphragm temporarily restricting breathing? The reason I ask is the birds behavior during and after the episode sounds familiar. A friends child was holding their cockatiel (and by holding I mean the kid had 2 hands around the wings and chest of the bird) to the point that it couldnt breathe. When I seen the bird gasping for air I quickly took the bird from the child. I caught it just in time. I think the bird only had a couple more attempts of gasping for air before it would have died. The bird started breathing again and started flapping around, head cocked at an unnatural angle, feet curled. The episode laster for about 30 sec, the bird came to, and went back to its normal self. I made sure the parents knew to never let the kid HOLD the bird like that ever again. How that bird is still hand tamed is beyond me because I guess thats not the first time its happened.


----------



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

Took Shandy to the further away bird vet today. Good thorough exam. She didnt want to stress him tonite with more blood draws as he was pretty stressed with the exam. She said we can treat the following ways:

1) wait for the potassium bromide to kick in and add an antibiotic in case the negative chlamydia was just due to him not shedding it; that day

2) go to the University for CT Scans/MRI/extensive possible multiple days of testing

3) draw blood even tho it is risky with a stressed, small bird (she recommended waiting a week and come back and do blood right away; not an hour after he has been examined/poked/prodded)

I am going with option 1. she mentioned the stopping of breathing, something heart related - cant remember the name of it. Epilepsy. Toxicity (which it turns out was not done and we safely cannot get enough blood for that and a complete panel). Diet (which it cant be). Tumors. Etc etc.

So a whole lot of nothing; wait and see I guess. She did observe his behavior tho and say he is not normal. He was closing his eyes, tilting his head; falling asleep during the exam and when we talking. She said birds just do not do that. She was happy with his diet and the fact that he is going into a smaller cage, etc. Hopeful the meds will help and that I need to give it time which is easier said than done.

Anyone know of a bird safe sweetener? The gave me unsweetened, bitter meds to syringe into his mouth. I dont want to do that. I'd like to have him happily eat it off his potassium bromide cracker. I'll go to the compounding pharmacy and pay for a sweetener otherwise.


----------



## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Hello, 

I know that doxycycline is sweetened by dextrose. It is also injected to sick birds for energy.


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

From your info supplied the seizure may be related to hypocalcemia. Blood should be drawn at the time of the seizure to see what the calcium and phosphorus levels were. 

This is a genetic fault, and there are several bloodlines that do pass it on to succeeding generations. I affects every other generation of cockatiel males. Can you get the beground, going back 3-4 generations....especially who the breeders were.

I do not post on here very much so you can contact me at [email protected]. I have several years of notes, studies, and treatments for these type of birds. The seizure activity can be managed so that there is no seizures, but it is never fully treated because it is genetic fault. This genetic fault acts to impair the immune system causing the body to be unable to use D3 to convert calcium in the diet.


----------



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

Srtiels, I've emailed you at your email address too. I asked Shandy's breeder and she said in 8 years of breeding mutations, she has never had one with seizures, ever. 

I would still like the info tho. I'll email you privately as well again.

Lisa


----------



## daverohmfeld (Oct 26, 2012)

Any update?


----------



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

Hi there. Thanks for asking. Shandy is still having seizures every 3-4 days (tho it has been since Thursday now so my fingers are crossed). Hoping the potassium bromide is kicking in. Still waiting on the info from Srtiels as to calcium. Hoping once he is a bit more stable we can do one more blood test for the complete panel. My vet is standing by.


----------

