# Kisses' and Buttercup's Breeding Journal



## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

The day after I move in to my new place, Kisses and Buttercup were getting a bit naughty. I was planning on taking them out of 'retirement' and breeding them, but not this early. It did tempt me to put up the nest box. So right away they start getting excited about the nest box and were constantly mating the first few days. Then today I check the box and there was an egg! I marked egg number one and I'm praying its fertile since Buttercup is becoming a little old. They appear to be incubating it so I will let you know in a few days if there is something inside.
I will post pictures when I get the chance. I'm at the library now so you will all have to wait! 
ANYWAYS.. here is what to expect.. The nestbox with Kisses and Buttercup is ALWAYS filled with surprises.

*EDIT:*
Ok so I have recently discovered Kisses the male is a whiteface pearl pied split to cinnamon, lutino, and recessive silver.
Buttercup, the female, is a cinnamon pied split to whiteface and recessive silver



Motheried Cinnamon Split To Recessive Silver Whiteface
Fatheried Whiteface Pearl Split To Recessive Silver {X1: Cinnamon Lutino}

male offspring:
6% Recessive Silver Pied Whiteface Cinnamon Split To {X1: Lutino Pearl}
6% Recessive Silver Pied Whiteface Split To {X1: Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}
6% Recessive Silver Pied Cinnamon Split To Whiteface {X1: Lutino Pearl}
6% Recessive Silver Pied Split To Whiteface {X1: Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}
6% Pied Whiteface Cinnamon Split To {X1: Lutino Pearl}
6% Pied Whiteface Split To {X1: Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}
6% Pied Cinnamon Split To Whiteface {X1: Lutino Pearl}
6% Pied Split To Whiteface {X1: Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}
13% Pied Whiteface Cinnamon Split To Recessive Silver {X1: Lutino Pearl}
13% Pied Whiteface Split To Recessive Silver {X1: Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}
13% Pied Cinnamon Split To Recessive Silver Whiteface {X1: Lutino Pearl}
13% Pied Split To Recessive Silver Whiteface {X1: Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}

female offspring:
6% Recessive Silver Pied Whiteface Cinnamon Lutino Pearl
6% Recessive Silver Pied Whiteface Pearl
6% Recessive Silver Pied Cinnamon Lutino Pearl Split To Whiteface
6% Recessive Silver Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface
6% Pied Whiteface Cinnamon Lutino Pearl
6% Pied Whiteface Pearl
6% Pied Cinnamon Lutino Pearl Split To Whiteface
6% Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface
13% Pied Whiteface Cinnamon Lutino Pearl Split To Recessive Silver
13% Pied Whiteface Pearl Split To Recessive Silver
13% Pied Cinnamon Lutino Pearl Split To Recessive Silver Whiteface
13% Pied Pearl Split To Recessive Silver Whiteface


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## Berdnerd (May 20, 2010)

Congrats and how exciting! How many times have Buttercup and Kisses had babies? It's so cool that there are so many possible outcomes for your babies  My birds so far have made 100% normal greys (well, split to Lutino since Mom is Lutino, but they look grey), as far as I can tell. Good thing I like greys!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

_*Kisses is the male. I KNOW he is a whiteface pearl pied split to lutino and fallow
Buttercup is the female. I KNOW she is a cinnamon pied split to whiteface and fallow.
-------------------------------*_

Yikles!!! You *do not *want to introduce cinnamon to the fallow mutation. And lutino is not good mixed with fallow.

Do you know what the males parents were? Many people assume a male is split to lutino if the parents produced lutino and fallow babies and there was no lutino in the background. Unfortunitely when cinnamon is mixed with fallow you wind up with lutino appearing babies. These are genectically called cinnamon fallows, even though they appear to be lutino. What happens is cinnamon totally masks the beautiful fallow color.


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

Good luck.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

From the Virtual Breeder

Motheried Cinnamon Split To Fallow Whiteface
Fatheried Whiteface Pearl Split To Fallow {X1: Lutino}

male offspring:
6% Fallow Pied Whiteface Split To {X1: Lutino Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}
6% Fallow Pied Whiteface Split To {X1: Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}
6% Fallow Pied Split To Whiteface {X1: Lutino Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}
6% Fallow Pied Split To Whiteface {X1: Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}
6% Pied Whiteface Split To {X1: Lutino Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}
6% Pied Whiteface Split To {X1: Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}
6% Pied Split To Whiteface {X1: Lutino Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}
6% Pied Split To Whiteface {X1: Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}
13% Pied Whiteface Split To Fallow {X1: Lutino Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}
13% Pied Whiteface Split To Fallow {X1: Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}
13% Pied Split To Fallow Whiteface {X1: Lutino Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}
13% Pied Split To Fallow Whiteface {X1: Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}

female offspring:
6% Fallow Pied Whiteface Lutino Pearl
6% Fallow Pied Whiteface Pearl
6% Fallow Pied Lutino Pearl Split To Whiteface
6% Fallow Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface
6% Pied Whiteface Lutino Pearl
6% Pied Whiteface Pearl
6% Pied Lutino Pearl Split To Whiteface
6% Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface
13% Pied Whiteface Lutino Pearl Split To Fallow
13% Pied Whiteface Pearl Split To Fallow
13% Pied Lutino Pearl Split To Fallow Whiteface
13% Pied Pearl Split To Fallow Whiteface


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## Jenny10 (Feb 27, 2010)

good luck with the babies


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

They have had babies about 6 times I believe during their life. I remember when I first tried a couple clutches didn't survive because back then I honestly didn't know too much about breeding. 
She laid another egg yesterday.

I'm not sure what his parents were. He has produced a lutino pearl and a whiteface lutino, which did make me assume he was split to lutino.. I can post pictures of those two if you are interested and I have pictures of the fallow pearl pied they produced (I didn't know she was a fallow until someone else pointed it out a while back).
This _is_ the last time they will be bred and i've been planning it that way.
I feel kind of ashamed for breeding them now. I honestly wish I knew more about genetics but its really difficult to find information about it. I need your books Susanne! LOL


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I had look at your post about having your birds back and it looks like what you are calling fallow is actually cinnamon lutinos. Many times the 2 mutations can be mistaken for each other. If cinnamon lutino the hen you not be split to it. But the male can carry this gene, and any offspring would be females.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

I think you told me a while back that they weren't fallows, but you did say I had a fallow, which these birds did produce. That is the bird that actually has been missing. I have a video of her on youtube of pictures from when she was a chick till she was about 5.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-Y-MbL5gPo
I'm sure all of that would help!
I also took pictures of the other two with flash today. I'm not sure if they came out well. The third picture is of the lutino pearl, the flash was just a bit overpowering.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

The video is BEAUTIFUL. What she was is a recessive silver pearl pied. The eyes were the deeper brighter pink because of the pued, and recessive silvers eyes are similair to fallow. Fallow would be more of a warmer paler color than recessive silver.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

Really?! Thats interesting! Correct me if i'm wrong, that means that both of the parents are split to recessive silver? Also, since you were saying before that my other lutinos are cinnamon as well, my male is actually split to cinnamon?
Are there better genetic outcomes now that I know there probably is no fallow? Sorry for all the questions lol.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes...both parents would have to carry the gene. Ok...if the bird in the video is this pairs baby, and you are also getting lutinos them the male is split to lutino. BUT if you get some lutinos with the same light bright pink eyes, and the father is split to cinnamon they could actually be recessive silvers, but the cinnamon is masking the color and they will appear like lutinos and have a slight beige wash.

it is amazing how splits can effect color, eyes, feather quality, etc.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

Thanks for the info!

Alright, she actually laid her second egg the day before yesterday (not yesterday) and she just laid her third egg sometime today (this is why I have to write it down, I lose track).


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

egg #4 yesterday


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Ah...here is something I learned many years ago. If the eggs are fertile and ususally by 4-5 days of incubation you can candle and look at the developing embryo. if you see a black speck it is going to be a dark eyed baby. If the mass is a unform red then it is going to be a red-eyed baby.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

I forgot to mention in this thread egg #1 is definitely no good and I'm pretty sure #2 is bad too. Across the street there was this large party that severely started the birds during the night. There was a fight and the cops came... those two eggs ended up a bit cracked. The cracks weren't even big enough for me to notice until I actually candled them. I put some clear nail polish over the cracks but i'm pretty sure I was too late  . Lets keep our fingers crossed for #3 and #4 and see what happens. I should hopefully see something in #3 either tomorrow or the day after. I'm getting impatient.. I hope they at least have one fertile egg out of this clutch. They still mate too, but off course spend all of their time in the nest box. I barely see either of them except for 5-10 minute breaks each one takes.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

GOOD NEWS!! Egg #3 has a bouncin' little baby dot (and veins)! LOL


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## tielmom (Aug 4, 2010)

Good luck Cheryl on your little egg...I just watched your video on youtube, I seen this video when I first lost my tiel back in June. I was looking up anything and everything on what to do if your tiel flew away and I seen your video of JP...I have to say I shed tears for you, because I know your pain...it was unbearable for the first few weeks...I thought of my tiel Snickers nearly every waking moment.
I beat myself up everyday about what could possibly be happening to him and then my heart would break over and over...I KNOW how you feel. I really hope that you somehow by a miracle, get your JP back.
He is beautiful


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

Thank you, I do miss my baby girl 

I forgot to mention #5 was laid yesterday.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

#4 looks to be fertile! A tad early, but I'll check again tonight. Its AMAZING how fast they are growing..


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

When you candle you can also tell if they are going to be red-eyed or dark-eyed


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

When I candled it I didn't see any black dot at all! I'll double check again, but it looks like we have a lutino or recessive silver!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Thats great! Keep us posted. It took me a long while to figure out that I could tell eye color early on in the egg )


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

The eye thing is great Susanne! BUT OOPS! I just candled the eggs since both birds left the box and the baby got much bigger and I can now see a little dark dot as his eye.
So we either have:
pied whiteface cinnamon
pied whiteface
pied cinnamon
pied
pied whiteface pearl
pied pearl


I'm hoping #4 is a recessive silver! 
I have about a 50% chance of getting one recessive silver according to the genetic calculator. Now we wait for #5 to reveal to us if there is a little fid inside. We could also get a #6 tonight.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

A cinnamons eyes will not be as distinctive to see as a pieds eyes will. Compare to see if the eye spot is as dark in the pix or just a little lighter but still noticable. This is because the cinnamons eyes will be a dark plum color upon hatch and turn black within a couple days.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

As I recall it was pretty dark, but I could be wrong, AGAIN.. lol.. my memory isn't the best. Alright so its probably either a 
whiteface pied
pied
pied whiteface pearl
pied pearl

I'm personally hoping for a pied whiteface pearl since we never had one of those before. But I will love any of them!


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## tielmom (Aug 4, 2010)

This is so cool...I just hope that he/she all of them are healthy...keep up the good work.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

#6 last night :
Baby #4 has grown a lot! I THINK I see an eye, but it isn't very noticeable, but i'll check again either tonight or tomorrow when its a bit bigger.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

If the eye is not very noticable it could be a cinnamon. If the entire mass looks red, then a red-eyed baby.

Congratulations on the fertile eggs  Can't wait to see the little fuzzballs.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

#5 is fertile!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Thats GREAT!!!


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## Berdnerd (May 20, 2010)

Exciting! I can't wait until your babies hatch. I love watching baby tiels grow up. You must post lots of pictures!


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## essy (Aug 28, 2010)

congratulations on your success


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

update. I can see the babies moving! For right now i'm assuming we will have 4 lovely chicks! I'm expecting egg #3 to hatch the end of next week give a few days.

In the middle of the night I noticed Kisses talks to the babies. He will start saying "hello" "i love you" and other gibberish.. I know he doesn't know what it means, but it is adorable! He loves his babies.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Ah.....it is so cute when the Daddy bird talks to the eggs. When the eggs are piping he will tap them and when the baby chirps he will answer back


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

egg #3 has pipped! He seems to be working around the egg very quickly. He is almost half way done and I hear his little peeps.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Congratulations...it sounds like you'll soon have a little fuzzball


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## tielmom (Aug 4, 2010)

YAY!!! Keep us posted on your baby tiels...love reading about them


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

HAPPY HATCH DAY Egg #3!!
Looks like we have either a pied or a pied pearl. Yellow down and black eyes. Will post pictures soon.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

egg #4 has pipped!


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

Happy Hatch Day egg #4! Same as the one before, yellow down and black eyes. Hoping chick #5 is a whiteface or recessive silver. That one looks like it should pip soon.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yay!...keep us posted


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

Pictures! They aren't good ones though and the color is very washed out. Their feathers look somewhat whiteish in them but they are actually a vibrant yellow. 
My camera died as I was trying to take pictures so I had to use my phone. I tried to get pictures in the nest box, but it needed flash and the flash was too bright.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

The one farthest back in the first pix looks like a cinnamon


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## tielmom (Aug 4, 2010)

Congrats...they are adorable


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

Update.. the other two chicks hatched. I regret to inform you all that chick 3 did pass away. It was hard for me to bring it up so I don't well up with tears. It was my fault why it happened and I prefer to not discuss it anymore. I'm heartbroken and I feel so guilty. Chick number 3 was a beautiful whiteface with red eyes (either wf lutino or recessive silver).. which is the exact chick I was hoping they would have that I would definitely keep. RIP little Beans.. May god teach you how to fly. I love you and I'm so sorry. 

Chick for is remarkably the same as chicks 1 and 2. Yellow down and black eyes. I find it a bit of crazy that they all turned out that way. 
Looks like we have a bunch of pieds and/or pearls. 
Chicks 1 and 2 has grown so much! Such a size difference already.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

srtiels said:


> The one farthest back in the first pix looks like a cinnamon


To me they appear to have the exact color in their eyes. I don't notice too much of a difference in the pictures either so I just might not notice it, but it could also just be the picture.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

BABY PICTURES!
First up is chick #1.. 7 days old. His eyes started to open! They were closed in the picture, but when I picked him up about 10 minutes before they were open a bit. You can also notice dark pin feathers coming in. Pied or pearl?! He started the 'static cry' instead of just peeping too. 

Second is chick #2.. 6 days old.

And third is chick #3... 2 days old.


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## tielmom (Aug 4, 2010)

Oh how cute...congrats...thanks for sharing


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

_*They all look great.*_ Since both parents are pieds they will all be pieds. if any are also pearled they will be female


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

Yep! Kisses is a pearl pied. Its great because all of their potential chicks can be visually sexed due to their genetics. I LOVE it. So no guessing or DNA testing. After a couple weeks I can guarantee what they will be. All the females that pair could ever have would either be a lutino and/or pearl of some sort. Buttercup isn't a visual of either so no boys.

No matter how many times I have dealt with babies, it amazes me how fast they grow. I just can't believe chick #1 is already opening his eyes! He saw me for the first time today.. maybe a bit blurry, but its so exciting.
Kisses and Buttercup have been great parents like always.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Congrats!!! They are soooo cute!!!


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

Susanne, from looking at your pictures on photobucket, I _think_ I may have two girls so far. The pinfeathers are coming in and they have dark ones on their wings and on the oldest one I can definitely see lighter tips on some of the pinfeathers. I'll try to get pictures of them soon. 
They have pink feet and yellow crests coming in though.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Can't wait to see how they feather out  The pearled ones would have varigated pin feathers on the shoulder and back.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

More pictures! My little babies are growing so fast.








Look how much grey is on her little face! 








Picture of chick #1's wing.








Chick #2's pin feathers








Chicks #2 and 3








All three!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

The babies are growing nicely. The 3rd pix looks like possibly a pearl pied.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

Ok, so chick #2 is DEFINITELY a female.. actually convinces me that chick #1 is a pied, so a male. 
Will get more pictures to confirm this soon. Don't know what chick #3 is yet, as its just starting to get its pin feathers in.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

I just keep going crazy with pictures! 
So I know chick #2 is a pearl pied.. I just need confirmation that chick #1 is a pied. Theres also some pictures of chick #3.


First up is Chick #2- female peal pied

























Now Chick #1- ?Male pied?

























And Chick #3- ??







YAWWWWNN


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

ALL the babies are pieds. You can tell that because they have the light colored flight feathers. It looks like they are all going to be pretty pieds 

#3 might possibly be a pearl pied too.


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

Yeah, I know they will all be pieds. I just wasn't totally sure if #2 was JUST a pied or a pearl pied too and wanted to know so I could figure out if it was a male or not.
And thank you! I'm so excited for next week when they get most of their feathers in. 
I love these little buggers so much. They are so sweet already!


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

Chick #3 is a pearl pied!
So we have one pied boy and two pearl pied girls. All are split to whiteface as well as possible recessive silver splits.
Such sweet babies. I wish I could name them but then that would make me inclined to keep them.. their families are waiting for them!


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## Cheryl (Dec 27, 2008)

Updated pictures of the chicks are located here: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=15901

Weights are:
Chick #1 (male): 97g
Chick #2 (female): 106 g
Chick #3 (female): 101 g
All are very healthy and active! They learned how to eat seed and pellets and took their first flights last night.

Such sweet birdies! They all have plans to go to new homes next month. I'm going to miss them dearly..
but.. Kisses and Buttercup have made new plans for me. They decided to lay another clutch. They are at egg #4 right now. I believe the first may be infertile, but there is one in the second egg and I think it has red eyes (Lutino or recessive silver?!).
I'm hoping for some whitefaces this time!
I think I might end up keeping some from this clutch. Its soo hard to give them away LOL.

I'm going to handfeed this clutch too and remove the nest box from the pair. They will be done breeding as of now. They are wonderful parents and produce beautiful babies.


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