# male or female lutino?



## jc119007 (Dec 28, 2009)

Hi everyone,
I recently lost my cockatiel Curry which is really sad and my boyfriend has kindly offered to buy me another bird since he can see how upset I am. I don't know what everyone thinks, and I don't want to replace Curry in anyway, but in the week with Curry being at the vet and the bad news yesterday I really miss having a cockatiel at home. I will always miss my Curry but I'm really touched by my boyfriend's offer too.
Anyway, he has offered to buy this cockatiel, it is a lutino but the owner/breeder has not had a DNA test and I don't know the genetics of the parents (will ask tomorrow). In the meantime, could you give me your opinion of sex?
Thanks!

PS forgot to mention that he/she is hand raised and was born in June 2009, he/she is regulary out of the cage too, and is on a seed diet


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## seaofdreams (Dec 29, 2009)

My lutino hen has undertail barring and wing spots in a darker yellow which makes it easy, haha. I have a mixture of both sexes and they're all great, although I love the way males sing so I have a bit of a soft spot for boys. I'm also overloaded with hens so maybe it's a matter of wanting what I don't have, ahaha.


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## jc119007 (Dec 28, 2009)

here are the photos, do you think its a male or female?


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## seaofdreams (Dec 29, 2009)

It's hard to tell from how far the camera is from the tiel, Kramers barring can only be seen up close and in certain light.


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

seaofdreams said:


> My lutino hen has undertail barring and wing spots in a darker yellow which makes it easy, haha. I have a mixture of both sexes and they're all great, although I love the way males sing so I have a bit of a soft spot for boys. I'm also overloaded with hens so maybe it's a matter of wanting what I don't have, ahaha.


I have 6 males you're more than welcome to have. :lol:


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## seaofdreams (Dec 29, 2009)

Solace. said:


> I have 6 males you're more than welcome to have. :lol:


Hahaha, I'm seriously cursed. I got Raiden who was a "definite male" according to the breeder but she has been DNA sexed. Then I got Kenzie who was DNA sexed as a male but the lab made a mistake and switched her results with her brother -__- I honestly wouldn't be surprised if my boys Steele and Paris somehow defied biology and turned into hens :lol:


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## jc119007 (Dec 28, 2009)

Solace. said:


> I have 6 males you're more than welcome to have. :lol:


Do you ship to France?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Congratulations on your new tiel...she looks like a beauty  

Since you tiel is over 6 months old, if a male some of the tailfeathers would have already started to molt in, and the new ones would be a dull off-white color. In the pix your bird appears to have mainly yellow tail feathers, so if not a lutino pied (then could be either sex) then the tiel is a female.


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## jc119007 (Dec 28, 2009)

Haven't made a decision yet, but I have asked the owner to send me closer pics and to give me the genetic history of the bird if possible, he is convinced that the bird is male "because it is easy to tell" 
Will post as soon as I get them.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

, he is convinced that the bird is male "because it is easy to tell" 
Will post as soon as I get them.
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Not so with some lutinos. if the lutino is a lutino pied, both sexes appear the same, and classic traits like wing spots and tail barring don't help.

The only way it could be a male is if the mother was a lutino. if the mother was not a lutino then it is a female.


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## jc119007 (Dec 28, 2009)

Just had a quick email from the owner:

Mother: lutino
Father: whiteface

So male or female??? Thanks for your help!!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

It could be either sex, and is also split to the WF gene. 

You'll have to watch it's actions, and listen to it. Most males will start to wolf whistle at this age. Hop with their wings spread slightly away from the body, and bang etheir beaks on the food dishes or cage barrs. Females are more quiet, and make more of a chirping sound.


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## jc119007 (Dec 28, 2009)

Ok, thanks for the info, in other words I'm just going to have to take a risk lol
The breeder said that the bird whistles, but doesn't talk (yet), and that the colours on the tail indicate that its a male 
I guess the best thing is to go and see the bird for myself, and see how it acts...
Thanks for your help


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Ok...if *defintely whistling* then it is a male. That is good, male lutinos are less common than female lutinos.


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## jc119007 (Dec 28, 2009)

Well, I cracked 

Just brought him home, and put him in his new cage, he's jumping around abit (normal!) but he's slowly calming down, I'm speaking softly to him so he can start to get to know me.
No bald spot to be seen, and he is in the process of growing new tail feathers, but the previous owner showed me his wings and no spots or bars to be seen. His main colour is white but he has yellow pearl colours all over, except on the wing feathers in the light, at the moment his existing tail feathers are dark yellow.
Will get a pic up in a few days when he's settled in, don't want to go flashing light at him on his first day!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Can't wait to see the pix's!! That is GREAT as to no balding. from the description of the parents the breeders was a concientious, and responcible breeder.

OK...your discription is a little confusing though. An adult male would not retain any pearling to his back. If pearl when young he will molt out the pearl, and many times this is replaced with a very pale or lavender wash.

No spots under the wings, with a male the wing flights would be the same color as the lutino body. If the wing flights are yellow, not off white, then the bird is a lutino pied. This also applies to the tail feathers. An adult normal lutino would not have a yellow tail. An adult lutino pied (male or female) would have a yellow tail.


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## jc119007 (Dec 28, 2009)

Ok, maybe I didn't get the description right.

The breeder confirmed that the father was a whiteface, but he said yesterday that the hen was a lutino, and again this evening, though once he did say albino.
His body is white, and so are his flight feathers, for the moment his tail is dark yellow. What I mean by "pearling" was that when the light hits him the body feathers are tinged in yellow, but not all over, just on half of the feather, I guess you might say a spot then?

Forgot to mention that he is already flock calling, and responds when I wolf whislte, and he is doing mini head bobs lol


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## jc119007 (Dec 28, 2009)

OK, I thought I had seen a very similair pic in this forum:

http://www.talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=12542&highlight=lutino+fallow

Kikou is very similiar in the sense that the "tinge" is yellow not cinnamon and not as pronounced, it is very very light, and you can only really see it close up, if not he looks totally white, maybe he is moulting this out? His flight feathers are totally white though, no yellow at all.

Sorry, trying to be as precise as possible without a pic lol. His mask is very yellow too.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...we'll have to wait until you have some nice pix's of him from different angles 

Albino used to be used in the late 50's when the lutinos were first developed. Many called them albinos instead of lutino.

The difference bewtween an albino...which is actually a lutino WF is that the Lutino WF is a solid white bird with red eyes, and a lutino is more of a cream, off-white bird with some yellow to the facial areas (more so on a male) and orange cheek patches.


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## jc119007 (Dec 28, 2009)

I agree, I'm finding it difficult to desribe Kikou, especially since it's at night.
Does it make much of a difference if the hen was lution WF or just lutino in terms of genetics/sex of the offspring?

And again a precision- his head is not entirely yellow, just the mask, his cheek patches are very orange.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

If the hen was lutino WF and the WF male split to lutino, the chances of visual lutino WF in a clutch are higher, and could be either sex. But if the hen was just lutino with a WF/lutino, all lutino appearing offspring will be split to WF, and either sex. If there were any other mutations in the clutch such as pearl, the father was split to pearl, and any babies showing pearl are female. if there were any pieds in the clutch then both parents were carrying the pied gene.

Did the breeder say what the clutchmates colors were?


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## jc119007 (Dec 28, 2009)

Hi,
Here are some photos, I tried my best for the moment (don't want to scare him!) if you need something specific, I'll do my best 

Sorry if it's pic heavy....


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## jc119007 (Dec 28, 2009)

Here are the infos of his family tree:

Father: white face from a WF cock and a lutino hen
Mother: WF lutino from a WF lutino cock and a WF hen

4 Siblings: 2 X WF lutino hens, & x WF hen & Kikou

Hope this helps!!


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## Mythara (Apr 9, 2009)

He's a lutino pearl. Is he older or younger than 6 months? If a boy, then he'll be losing the pearls if he's 6 months or more. If he's older than six months and has all his pearls still, then he's a girl. =)

Did you see either of the parents? Only one of them must not be a WF, otherwise Kikou would be a WF, and he/she's not, otherwise he/she wouldn't have orange cheek patches, or the yellow.

Edit - Plus, the father must be split to pearl, or Kikou wouldn't have pearls, and if the mother wasn't pearl, then Kikou *must* be female, because pearl is a sex-linked gene.

Pearl is a sex linked gene. In cockatiels males are XX and females are XY. The pearl gene is carried with the X chromosome. So males need two copies of pearl to be visibily pearl, and females only need one copy. Males get one copy from each parent. Females get their copy from their fathers, and get a Y chromosome from their mothers. If the mother isn't pearl, and the father is either pearl or split to pearl, then all the pearl chicks the a nest will be female. If only the mother is pearl then all the males will be split to pearl, and the females won't have it at all. If both parents are pearl, then the pearl chicks could be either gender. Lutino, cinnamon and a couple of other mutations work the same way.


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## jc119007 (Dec 28, 2009)

OK.
Unfortunetly I didn't see the parents because by the time I got to the breeder they had gone into their nest because I arrived late (got turned around on the highway). I think that the breeder got mixed up, the hen is lutino not a WF lutino (it's only once that he said that the hen was a WF lutino, the rest of the time he said lutino), the cock was the WF.
Kikou is just over 6mths old, the breeder said that he hadn't gone through his first moult yet, I think he's just about to start because his tail is quite ratty looking and short. He's quite vocal, he makes a high pitched call, and doesn't stop moving!


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## Mythara (Apr 9, 2009)

Is it just a high pitch call with a single note? If so that's flock calling and both genders do it. Is the mother a pearl? If not, Kikou must be female, it's not possible to have a male pearl if his mother isn't a pearl.


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## jc119007 (Dec 28, 2009)

Yep, it's a high pitched call with a single note.

I'm pretty new to genetics, so I'm trying to follow you here  
The pearls that you're referring to is the yellow in his feathers I guess?


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## Mythara (Apr 9, 2009)

A normal lutino would have solid yellow feathering on their back. The markings your seeing are the result of pearling.


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## jc119007 (Dec 28, 2009)

Just thought I'd update about Kikou:

She hasn't had her first moult yet (so she's still got the pearls), but I have noticed that she's developped (?) a white spot behind her head, which is pale yellow all over. She's also making small whistling noises, different notes, sometimes if an ad is on TV that has whistling she will react (whistle or chirp along). If I whistle to her she usually responds...
I also have the impression that the orange spot on her cheek is quite pale, compared to most orange spots in greys.
I haven't been able to get a decent photo yet because if I use the flash she comes out white (lol) with red eyes (devil bird!!) and since it's been raining/overcaste lately the natural lighting hasn't been good for a good shot. Will post some pics asap.


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