# Hand raised vs handling while parent raised



## Phoenix2010

I am interested in other peoples experience and opinions on whether it is better to hand raise baby tiels or handle them regularly and even co feed while they are parent raised. I currently have babies that are 12 days old and they are used to me looking in regularly. They are in an outside aviary with their parents. My aim is to have healthy friendly babies (one already has a home waiting)


----------



## CaliTiels

Both socialize babies well, but co-parenting babies helps them be friendly, and still remember they are a bird. Sometimes when people handfeed baby birds they seem to believe they are people too. It's not really a bad thing in little birds, but it definitely is a big problem in larger parrots


----------



## Phoenix2010

Good point. My instincts say parents are going to raise a healthier chick while it learns some bird etiquette. If I decide to keep any of these babies they will eventually live outside.


----------



## blueybluesky

I always let the parents raise their chicks and I handle them everyday, I see a lot about how parent raised chicks are healthier to but I don't know how true that is.
I've got chicks hatching at the moment and I'm planning on doing the same thing I did with Bear and Snuggles which is what I stated above and only helping out when I see a problem. Bear is in the aviary now and has turned one year old, still housed with her parents and still the friendliest of the bunch  every time I step in the aviary she's on my head ready to hangout with out fail, some times she's waiting at the side of the door ready to pounce before I even get in through the safety section and Snuggles always liked to snuggle at your neck which is where he got his name :lol:

It's a good idea to always be prepared with some hand rearing food etc though just in case because there most likely will be a time when you end up needing it.

Good Luck with the little ones, let us know what you decide, either way you are still going to have friendly babies


----------



## Shockadine

I only hand-feed chicks when there is a problem. I can't say it changes much about their friendliness by time they reach adulthood. Hand-feeding has differing affects, on different birds, in different situations. At the end of the day, hand-feeding doesn't seem to be as important as I have been told all my life. For some reason genetic temperament is so often ignored when it comes to breeding and raising birds. You would actually be very surprised to see that baby tiels start showing hints to their pet quality as early as 2 weeks old. I have been keeping video documents and journals to prove it. I'm more into breeding for the research than anything else, so I don't sell babies when they are weaned. I keep them until they are adults or close too to study things just like this. Birds that remain tamest into adulthood are my next generation breeders.

From my experience some tiels really do hatch, significantly easier to tame than others. Not to say the others can't be tamed, but the difficulty, and the best methods for taming, seem to depend on the individual bird. 

I have had hand-fed babies from the same clutch, given the same treatment, turn out quite different. For instance the 2 brothers that acted very different at feeding time. One didn't like my hand at all, and struggled when being held. If left alone with the syringe and formula, would stand by the bowl and cry to it. The other would follow me or any other person he saw and cry to them. Before the first chick was even weaned, it lost interest in me completely. It was starting to fight with me when I would take it to the feeding area. When it decided it was done eating it would fly off to do something else. He turned out quite independent. He doesn't mind a person being near him, but he prefers not to be held and doesn't like to be pet.

The second chick was excited about feeding time. And wanted to socialize before and after eating. He follows anyone that is around whether he knows them or not. He likes people. 

Could the first bird be tamed? Of course. Do I believe he would ever enjoy human company as much as his brother? No. Hand-feeding doesn't change the bird's core temperament.

I also have a clutch that were half siblings to these brothers. They were parent-raised and handled daily while still in the nest. The first chick, Aviel, was easily started by noises and new objects from the beginning of when I started handling them, but could be calmed down with quiet and cheek rubs. The second chick, Attica, was a total basket case when handled. She never relaxed, and spent most of her time trying to back up out of my hand. She looked terrified every time she saw me, getting flat, swaying, screaming, backing up, and even trying to strike at me. Many tiel babies seem to do a bit of this when they are little, but she did it to more of an extreme compared to any of my other babies. Alveera, aka Diver, was the last of the 3 chicks. He never minded being handled as a baby and didn't freak out at all when I would open the nest box. I have a really interesting video of a look in the nest box when they were 2 weeks old. The first 2 babies are making lots of noise and hissing, while Diver sits calmly in the back and watches the camera quietly. 

Aviel is handleable. She doesn't like it, but she doesn't bite. She prefers the company of birds, and would be plenty content if she never saw me again. Attica hates people. Surprise surprise. She is not handleable and will absolutely scream and bite if you try to. Diver is among the friendliest cockatiels I have ever had. He never bites. Nothing fazes him. I've taken him to play with my friend's 6 year old daughter. He plays very nice. I have pictures and videos of him in a sea of plastic ponies, balancing toy hats on his head, to prove it. 

What I'm getting at here is that good tempered birds don't need to be hand-fed, and poor tempered birds won't magically be turned into birds that love people just because they are hand-fed. There are so many variables, that it would be impossible for me to tell you hand-feeding would or wouldn't be beneficial for taming your specific babies. 

Onto the health aspect. Parent-raised birds tend to grow larger and faster than hand-fed babies. I have heard people say there is no difference, though I have yet to find a hand-feeding method that gets the same results the parents get. My 76g male and 85g female currently have a 96g 3 week old in the nest. This is it's weight, empty. The parents were hand-fed so are possibly genetically larger than they got, explaining the size of their chicks. I have a hand-fed full brother to Diver who weighs about 83g. Diver weighs 103g. Aviel and Attica are in the 90s. I compare my babies weights to hand-feeding weight charts online and my hand-feds typically stay in range of those charts. My parent-raised birds are always beyond the charts, and I haven't bred any particularly large cockatiels. At the same time I haven't noticed any specific health problems with the hand-fed birds, they are just usually a little smaller.

On learning to talk and whistle, hand-fed babies do seem to catch on a little easier from what I've seen so far. Diver's hand-fed brother whistles up a storm and has been trying to talk. Diver is pretty quiet and never learned the common whistles I hear around here. Their father is a good whistler, and even their mother learned the wolf whistle. It sounds different from the males, but she definitely does it. Mom and dad were hand-fed. In fact all of my hand-fed males whistle. 

Before this turns into a book, try to let the parents raise them, and pay attention to how the babies respond, If you are intent on every baby becoming a tame pet, maybe consider hand-feeding the more skittish and easily startled chicks in the clutch. If hand-feeding and socializing doesn't make a baby like people, don't blame yourself. It will just need more work, and may never like people as much as some others. Cater to the individual. There are no hard and fast rules.


----------



## roxy culver

As stated above, genetics plays a huge role in how the baby will turn out. If the parents are tame and sweet then the babies will be too. But if the parents are nippy and not tamed easily, no amount of hand feeding will change that. I have a friend who has a lovey who was hand fed and it has taken her years to be able to touch the bird without getting bit. With my own babies, my nicest ones were from my nicest set of parents, my meaner or more wild babies came from my meaner/wilder parents. And even then, depending on mutation, some birds will revert back to being wild anyways.

I prefer co-parenting, solely because there are things a parent bird can give the baby that we can't. Parent fed birds have always looked bigger to me and grown better. Hand feeding babies seem to be smaller to start out with. Co-parenting gives you the chance to work with the babies but still let them be birds.


----------



## Darkel777

I also like co-parenting. For one it's a lot less work. Secondly, it allows the breeder to build a relationship with the parent birds so there are less accidents: Damaged eggs, smothered chicks, and night frights. Without a doubt, some of those things will happen. But it will happen less if the parents are comfortable being around you and letting you handle their chicks.


----------



## Phoenix2010

Thankyou for taking the time to reply. I am heading down the coparenting path I think and have been spending time with the chicks since their eyes opened and already I am seeing different characters between the three (oldest is 20 days now). Although I have owned tiels for a few years now, I am starting to define where I want to go with future breeding, and temperament Has become my main priority after experiencing the frustration of buying flighty birds. 
Finding this forum has been really helpful to me and I enjoy reading about other people's fids. Thanks!


----------



## Phoenix2010

Just an update to let you know that due to the extreme heat forecast I have decided to bring the chicks in to hand feed. I brought them in at dusk this evening and will weigh them tomorrow.


----------



## blueybluesky

I know what you mean it's hot here to and I hate seeing the little ones with their heads up panting so much and today is going to be even hotter.

Hope your bubs are doing well


----------



## Phoenix2010

I see you are in Western Australia too so you know what I mean. I have had lots of little setbacks this season so figure it's better to bring these babies in rather than leave them out in 40+ heat. I have hand raised before but each time I learn a little more and gain confidence.


----------



## blueybluesky

You are braver than I am, I always get scared at the thought of hand feeding after I lost a little finch baby that was abandoned by the parents. I've just been bringing our chicks inside for a while and then taking them outside for a bit to be fed. I've been having to mist our birds and take them cold and frozen food out all day even the ones inside are panting because our air con decided to stop working 

Hopefully tomorrow will be better for us both


----------



## Phoenix2010

The babies are doing well now that they are used to me and this evening they were all taking their feed well. One of the three has a lovely temperament, very placid and will make a lovely pet for its new owner. The other two are needing more handling as they are more inclined to hiss and "attack" but I have plenty of time for them so I expect that behaviour to reduce. I hope to cull future clutches by selecting the best temperament but I know it won't be easy.


----------



## SilverSage

Parent raised babies in general have heavier weaning weights and ar healthier, better adjusted, more confident birds both in my experience and that of my mentor, and not just in cockatiels. Also, hand feeding involves the bird imprinting on humans and that imprinting usually includes sexual imprinting leading to the bird seeking out a human mate. This may SEEM cute, but in reality it is one of the leading causes of screaming and biting in parrots including cockatiels. I only hand feed if it is necessary for survival, and my babies aree great pets. I start playing with them when their eyes open, and when they start to pin I introduce a harness.

Please do not co-feed. It can make the parents lazy, it can cause the parents to bite the babies in order to get them to open their beaks for feeding, since the babies are not begging for food, etc. also, because hand feeding formula is quite a bit heavier than natural regurgitated food it can quickly sink to the bottom of the crop and stretch the crop downward. Parents feed more often then humans do because of the difference in the food, they can do that. Adding formula to the crop of an already well fed bird can cause sour crop. If your parents are feeding, let them feed and you just focus on handling the babies.


----------



## urchin_grey

This was an interesting read!

We just started breeding about 6 months ago so I only have experience hand feeding a few clutches but I can already see differences in temperament among the babies I've raised so far. Out of the clutch I'm currently feeding (about 8 weeks old), all 3 tolerate being handled very well but none of them are too keen on being scratched much (as opposed to the babies in the last clutch who would offer you their heads). Two of those want to be perched on me all the time, preferably my head. <_< And the third one would rather be off exploring. 

This clutch I had to pull earlier than I had wanted though because the hen was plucking them to try to get them out of the nest. And pulling them did seem to make a significant difference in size because they started out huge but are all <80g now. Their parents double clutched (one baby hatched 1/11 and the other hatched today), plus we have another set of parents sitting on their very first clutch now. I hope to let them all raise these babies and see how that goes. It sure does sound easier and to be honest, I always felt bad taking them from the parents in the first place.


----------



## Phoenix2010

the youngest of the three chick I have been hand raising is now nearly 4 weeks old and I am happy with his progress. hopefully I have managed to attach a photo


----------

