# Green Urates and Inactive Bird



## Eollica (Oct 6, 2011)

Hello

2 days ago I noticed Mimi's urates had turned green. We all got very worried, because usually it means 2 things: liver issues or clamydhya.


She's probably the tamest of all birds and i'm starting to wonder if she's only the tamest because she was sick since we bought her.

She was started on antitoxics, which helped only a little, so now she's also on antibiotics.

She's a little bit nocturnal, but she doesn't stay up at night cuz we put her in a separate dark room to sleep.

She has a cage mate, Hope, who is very hyperactive and whose droppings are normal. 

Mimi's feces part of the dropping are also dark green, while Hope's remain light brown. They both eat the same thing, pellet, and this means Hope's droppings are perfectly fine.

Mimi, in her usual behaviour, sleeps a bit during the morning and then goes eat, sings a bit and then goes do her business, pretty much poking everything in the cage. But she then usually sits in a chosen perch in front of the food bowl and stays there for a tad of time.

The green urate apeared after the day we offered them a mix of seeds, peanuts and raisin, which my mother bought in france on a trip, so maybe that's part of what triggered it.

My bet is on, she was already sick, and something made the symptoms appear. Because we offered the same seeds to everybody; the other 3 cockatiels in the big cage and my couple of lovebirds, and nobody had this except her.

They always beg to come out of the cage and if you pass by, Hope wistles so you come pick her up. Bit spoiled i'd say . Mimi, tho, when out of the cage, sits on my chest and asks for cuddles, and I cuddle her until she is nearly asleep. Hope just runs around poking everything, including my dog's ears. :wacko: I think my dog thinks she's her puppy.

Netherless, here's my question: anyone knows the specific symptoms of clamydhya? Do you think this is reallyw hat she has?

Our best vet is out of town, and we don't want to bring her back to the old one... Last time we did, our poor parrotlet died, because he choked on baby food, that the vet gave him because he wasn't eating. 

Edit: I brought them to my room, so i could keep an eye on them, with cage. For the last 30 minutes they been throwijng a tantrum to get out, running in front of the door. Both, not just Hope; so my guess is she's not so terribly sick 

Also, her wings are clipped too short, ever since we bought her. Her moulting haven't started yet, while ALL the other birds withotu exception are molting or just finished molting. Makes me a little worried, cause i'm very eager to see her able to fly again. Both would be ready to move to our large cage if it wasn't by Mimi's wings.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

theres a possibility it was the peanuts, peanuts are a known cause of aspergillosis and thats why its not reccomended to feed them to birds.

who put her on antibiotics?


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## Eollica (Oct 6, 2011)

My mother did; i can check up the medicine name if you need.

Do you know aspergilosis treatment/symptoms?

Thansk for the reply.

Lots of those parrot/cockatiel mixes actually do have peanuts :S

She doesn't seem to have any respiratory issues as well..


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*My mother did; i can check up the medicine name if you need.*
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Self medication can be very dangerous for several reasons: first off if the dosage is not correct it can be ineffective and if the dosage is too high it can cause damage to the liver. It is called the 'Shotgun style treatment' to self medicate in not knowing what the true problem is and hopes that the medication will fix the problem. Many times it results in additional problems.

When you see green urates something is affecting the liver. it could be several things, from over dosage of meds, to bacterial, to a heavy metal poisoning.

The green urates is an alert that the liver needs support to help it. Below is some info saved that will be helpful. You can ask a pharmacist for over the counter Lactulose. Also erxposure to Full Spectrum Lighting is beneficial to liver health.
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Under normal circumstances a bird mfg. and synthesizes vitamin C in the body. When it is sick the body’s ability to do this is hindered, thus supplementing is needed. This is especially so when you have suspected hepatic (liver) problems or damage. Vitamin C is a great supplement when sick and to aid the body when there are liver problems. A liver is regenerative, but it needs to be given the *tools* to help heal itself.

Some of the tools are: Vitamin C (while sick), lactulose, natural exposure to sunlight or full spectrum lighting close to the caging, and a changing of caging, such as a flight cage that encourages more movement and exercise, or some flight time daily. 

When there are liver problems the function of the liver is hindered. This also can effect vitamin A which is formed in the liver from beta carotene, thus supplementing of beta-carotene is needed. An increase of the water soluble nutrients to the body. Brewers Yeast is an excellent source for these.

Milk thistle can be given for liver problems. Dandelion can also be given to detoxify and act as a stimulant to the liver. 1 drop of each (in extract form) to each 1/2 ounce of lactulose (some info below) can be mixed up and the bird given a drop 2 times a day. These 2 herbal extracts can also be added to the drinking water at a ratio of 1 drop to 3 ounces of water, and changed 2 times a day.

I've found that everything has a cause and effect to other body functions in our feathered friends. To help them many times we have to get to the root of the problem. Such as why your bird does have liver problem. Also how does this effect the other organs, and go from there. Many times giving the body the needed supplements and nutritional support (tools) can do more healing than any medication.

Lactulose (Cephulac)

Lactulose acts as an osmosis retardant to the absorption of potential toxins from the GI tract. Used as a treatment with liver disease to decrease the load of metabolites that must be processed through the liver. What this does is reduce toxic potential of the blood ammonia due to liver dysfunction. 

It also acts as an appetite stimulant. 

It acidifies the intestinal contents.

It is also be effective in establishing a gastrointestinal environment that favors the growth of intestinal flora. This eliminates the need for lactobacillus supplementing. Lactulose can be used daily for weeks. If diarrhea is noted reduce the dosage.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I agree with Dally, we need more details. What medications is she on? Are they by mouth or in the water? Has she been to a vet at all?

Also, what is her weight like? You mentioned that she's inactive and spends most of the day in front of the food bowl. If she's overweight, that could put her at risk for fatty liver disease. A congenital liver problem is also a possibility. I think you do need to take her to the vet, and probably get bloodwork to determine what is going on.

Can you provide us a pic of the droppings with green urates? That would also help.


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## Eollica (Oct 6, 2011)

Thanks a lot for all the info.

Like I mentioned before, saldy in Brazil we lack competent vets. The onyl vet that has the blood/dropping lab exam says it takes 1-2 weeks to get the results... By then somethign terrible could happen. I will try to schedule something with him again by the end of the week. Mimi was never on meds before so i wouldn't think the green urate is caused by overdose.

We have given her:

Antibiotic:

Azitromicine 200mg/5ml

0,1 ml once every 48 hours, with a syringe, on her beak

treatment goes on for 21 days intercalated

Liver protecter:

Carduus marianus extract 50mg/5ml 

0,1 ml every 24 hours, with a syringe, on her beak


Antitoxic:

10 drops in 40 ml of water

Contains: acetilmetionine, coline clorhyde, vitamins b1, b2 and b6


Her urate color is getting a much lighter now:










Her feces were also dark green despite her eating the same food as her mate, but now both feces parts are the same color. The urate remains green but a lot lighter than yesterday.

Her weight, we weight them every 2 days, but when they're sick we weight them twice a day. Her usual weight is a variant between 99g and 101g. When we took her to the vet he said her weight was normal.

Right now she's weighting 99g.

I will offer her dandelion as you recommended, and will look up the other suggestions, se eif i can find the other medicines. 

I know it isn't much, but my mother is a doctor. We do a lot of research on several forums, same reason why we are posting this here. The antibiotic is the same the veterinary prescribed when our other bird had respiratory problems, a suspect of cadid disiase (psictachosis).

It's also surely not an overdose, because when we administrate the medicine they spit like, half out. So we usually give them twice but i believe they only actually get 2/3 or 3/4 of the actual dose. :/

Seems like my mother also gave her 2 drops of veterinary vitamin earlier.

She took a nap while I was watching them and she is sleeping normally, standing in one foot, with her head tucked on her back feathers. She's not horribly sick, she stays in the perch and doesn't shake her tail while breathing nor makes strange noises. She whistles fine when she wants to - specially to demand to get out fo the cage or for me to return to the room.

She's preening oftenly, but she eats and drinks normally. I will wash the dandelion well and leave it on water for 30 minutes, then will put it in the cage. She usually loves it, and had it 4 days ago.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*It's also surely not an overdose, because when we administrate the medicine they spit like, half out. So we usually give them twice but i believe they only actually get 2/3 or 3/4 of the actual dose. :/

Seems like my mother also gave her 2 drops of veterinary vitamin earlier.*
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Sigh...we can kill our birds with kindness. You *can not* be sure if the meds were in excess or if you started with the right dosage to begin with. The green urates are showing liver damage, and the softness of the feces may be from an imbalance of the intestinal flora. When antibiotics are used they should be followed up with an antifungal and probiotics.


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## morla (Aug 15, 2011)

Aw! I hope she is not really sick!


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## Eollica (Oct 6, 2011)

_When antibiotics are used they should be followed up with an antifungal and probiotics._

Alright, thanks for your reply, i will afterwards


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*Alright, thanks for your reply, i will afterwards*

What do you mean by _afterwards???_ If this bird is on them now, *Stop using them.* The urine also looks discolored with could be from either dehydration and/or some renal damage. When off the meds a day or two the urates should clear back up. 

Even though the vet has to send out tests you might consider having a full blood chemistry done on her. And also while there have a fecal float done in the office. The slimy softness of the feces portion can also be a sign of an intestinal parasite problem.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

> I know it isn't much, but my mother is a doctor. We do a lot of research on several forums, same reason why we are posting this here. The antibiotic is the same the veterinary prescribed when our other bird had respiratory problems, a suspect of cadid disiase (psictachosis).


a doctor is not the same as a vet. and theres different meds for different problems. theres something going very wrong, and putting off those tests can make her suffer longer than the time it takes to get those test results. so i would definately get her in and follow srtiels advice on stop using the stuff you are giving her. 


do you mean candida? candida is not the same as psittacosis


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## Kikode (Aug 17, 2011)

Could you guys post some photo of healthy poo or maybe examine a pic of my tiels tommorow? Im worried now  but hes asleep.


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## Puppydog (Oct 13, 2011)

We had a Dr come into the vet having poisoned and killed her dog with ibuprofen. A Dr is not a vet and visa versa.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Here is a pix...click for a larger view.


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## Kikode (Aug 17, 2011)

Thanks Sr Tiels!


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## Eollica (Oct 6, 2011)

We have been to the vet and his suspect is clamydhia. We will make exams on all the birds. He kept the treatment the same but the antitoxic was removed, since the vitamin already has antitoxics.

Today the droppings are normal and the urates are white again. I'm reliefed.

But since I'm a paranoid bird keeper, tonight I went peek on them in their sleep room, and I caught her dropping in a pile (since she doesnt move a lot at night) and it was a progression, most of the pile was regular brow-nish with white urates, but the last 2 drops she had were darker. Is this normal, because the bird isn't eating or drinking? Its not black-black, but a darker tone of brown than the first dropping of the night. They are sleeping has been 6 hours now.

Also I was 'lucky' to catch one dropping fall, and it fell with some tiny bubbles, but they popped and dissapeared, leaving it traceless, so i wouldn't be able to see them if it was overnight dropping. 

I read on the other thread of abnormal droppings

"Bubbly not good:
Finally, you should watch for a couple of bathroom habits that could mean big trouble. For one, droppings that contain any bubbles or foam probably indicate an infection such as clostridium.

Another symptom of an underlying problem is straining. If you ever catch your bird having problems eliminating, get him to a veterinarian pronto. Straining could stem from a physical blockage caused by a growth or wart or another serious condition such as egg-binding.".

Well sure isn't an egg because we suspect shes a male, and she shares cage with a female  

She doesn't show any difficulties while 'going to the bathroom' either, she does the same move she always did, without pushing.

Is there any other meaning to the little bubbles? 

Netherless if it is an infection then the same medicine she's already on will cure it, correct?


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## Eollica (Oct 6, 2011)

PS: Also her behaviour has normalized the last 2 days. She's active, playing, whistling, singing and eating normally (but she was eating normally before).


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