# Protruding Keelbone



## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

I've noticed an area protruding on occasion so today I forced Girlie to let me get a closer look. It looks like a prodruding bone and I took some pictures. Should I be worried? I've only had girlie 2 weeks so I don't know if this is her 'normal'. 

I can feel the bone protruding but you can not see it normally.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

That's called her keelbone. How much is it protruding? If quite a bit it could mean she's underweight. How old is she?


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

It protrudes enough that when she turns a certain way I can see it and I can feel it sticking out. She does look a bit thinner than the others. She is 8 years old. How can I 'fatten' her up?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Sunflower seeds, millet, anything containing calories.


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## CockatielFace (Mar 25, 2012)

Peanuts should help too.


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## RexiesMuM (Sep 7, 2011)

Peanuts tend to be considered unsafe from everything i have read . Like roxy said Millet sunflower seed and anything with calories that is safe for tiel will help her gain weight . What table foods do you offer her ?


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## CockatielFace (Mar 25, 2012)

Ive read on here peanuts are safe.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Bread (multigrain), brown rice (limited because of iron content), grape nuts (limit again because of iron content).


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

CockatielFace said:


> Peanuts should help too.


Peanuts which are food grade and which have been shelled are fine in moderation. But, they should be a treat, and not a staple food used to gain weight. An underweight bird needs proper nutrition, not just lots of calories. Just like you wouldn't tell a human patient who had been starving to go eat a bunch of cheeseburgers.

I know that you're excited about owning birds and that you mean well, but please be careful about giving advice to others until you're a bit more experienced with 'tiels. I know you wouldn't want to see someone's bird get hurt as a result of bad advice.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

* but please be careful about giving advice to others until you're a bit more experienced with 'tiels. I know you wouldn't want to see someone's bird get hurt as a result of bad advice. *
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*I totally agree!*

As to the original poster I would strongly suggest a vet visit to find out if there are any health issues that are the cause of poor weight gain. Also, what is the birds current diet? Was the bird thin when you got her. It would be helpful if you can supply a little more info.....


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

I have only had her a couple weeks and she has always been thinner than my other 5 Tiels. I feed scrambled eggs with a little milk scrambled in, shredded cheese, raw oatmeal, cooked brown rice, whole wheat bread, whole wheat crackers, broccoli, apples, orange slices -- or whatever else is in my pantry or fridge that is safe for tiels. Everyday they get a fresh sprig of millet. As a staple I feed Kaytee Forti-diet ProHealth with real egg. And I am currently sprouting some food but I haven't offered that to them yet.

I offer all or some of these daily. She eats the seed as a staple but has yet to touch any of the other foods. Before I got her she was on a seed only diet and I am not sure what brand of seed she was on. 

She shares her cage with another Tiel and they share these foods. Is 1 sprig of Millet enough or should I give her all she will eat since it is higher in calories?


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## RexiesMuM (Sep 7, 2011)

Sounds like you have all food bases covered , I would really recommend a vet visit cause it sounds like mabey there is something else going on . Do you feed pellets at all also ? Also do they have cuttlebone calcium is important


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

I do not feed pellets because I have not had any luck with convincing my birds to eat them. I have noticed that Girlie does not mess with the additional foods I give her and it took a couple of my other Tiels 4 months before they would try new foods. So although I do offer these foods I have not seen her eat anything besides the seed. With the holidays approaching our local Avian vet will be closed until Tuesday. I will give him a call and see about having her looked at.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

* I feed scrambled eggs with a little milk scrambled in, shredded cheese, raw oatmeal, cooked brown rice, whole wheat bread, whole wheat crackers, broccoli, apples, orange slices -- or whatever else is in my pantry or fridge that is safe for tiels. 

As a staple I feed Kaytee Forti-diet ProHealth with real egg.*
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That is good your other birds are not taking to the above foods. Between the combined protein and iron content in the above, over time, this can do damage to both the liver and kidneys.

As to the seed offered, see if you can try to find a mix that is not fortified, and is just a plain cockatiel seed mix. Eliminate most of those food you are offering. See if they will eat some veggies....such as leafy greens, corn, peas, etc. Try and research the nutrient content of everything you feed. You do not want foods that have the same nutrients such as too many sources of food with protein. And if the food cantains iron, avoid giving any foods that contain Vit C at the same time.
Yes....if you can get to the vet that would be good. if it is not health related, it could be she is slowly starving herself to death.


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## RexiesMuM (Sep 7, 2011)

I would still try to offer the pellets , Mabey not alot so it doesn't get wasted but if you put them in a separate dish they tend to check them out . My girl Sunny wouldn't touch them at all i have had her for 5 and 1/2 months and i seen her eating pellets for the first time 2 days ago hehe . Some tiels needs a little longer to trust that its safe to eat but eventually curiosity will get the better of them hehe
Oops i read to fast and did not realize they weren't getting any veggies ! srtiels is right tho too much of the same nutrients . They need alot of variety like humans do
This is a good seed i would recommend if you can find it where you live , you can also order it on amazon
http://volkmanseed.com/products/avianscience/as_cockatielwsun.html


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

They do get a variety. These are not all given every day. Daily I try to cover all the bases so I feed a grain, a protein, a fruit, and a veggie. I was asked what I fed so I gave my list. Daily I search my fridge and give them whatever I have fresh. My other 4 tiels' favorites of the week were scallions, mushrooms, and carrot slices. I do not like giving frozen veggies so I give whatever I have fresh. I am out of lettuce right now but they also enjoy both romain and iceberg. Their favorite veggie is broccoli.


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

srtiels said:


> * if it is not health related, it could be she is slowly starving herself to death.*


*

What if this is the case? What do I do then???*


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Offer her seeds if that's all she will eat...


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

I fear that she may be starving herself. I see her eating very little. What causes this behavior and is there anything I can do besides offer the food? Can I force feed her? A trip to the vet is in order but it will be 4 days before they are open again. In the meantime what do I need to look out for or do?


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## rainfeather (Jan 26, 2012)

Oh, I sure hope everything will go okay. I don't have anything to add on this subject but I thought a little support would help. Crossing my fingers that she'll be okay and will fatten up. Oh, but also, weighing her will be helpful in a way that you can see if she's decreasing or increasing in weight.


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

Oh my goodness - that is a great idea. I weigh my week old babies daily and I didn't think of weighing her. I will definately start that in the morning and keep a journal of her weights. Tomorrow I will post her weight. What should a female adult Tiel weigh? What goals am I looking for?


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## RexiesMuM (Sep 7, 2011)

It depends on her really . Tiel weights can vary because of the size of the cockatiel . Like my Shake is a smaller guy he usualy weighs around 85-90 grams where as his mate Moonpie weighs a wopping 105 grams lol
This would be a good thread to read on . I found it more helpful for me with my babies then the weights
http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=17680


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Right now, you're looking for her to not lose weight. Consistent weight loss over a few days' time is a pretty sure indicator of something going on. My vet considers a 5% loss worrisome, and more than a 10% loss time to consider hospitalization if the issue can't be pinpointed and corrected immediately.

If all she will eat is seeds, then give her as much of the seed as she will eat for right now. Limiting seed is not the way to introduce other foods. As others have said, they can and will starve themselves to death rather than try something new that looks unappealing. 

Instead, go back to offering her as much seed as she wants, but look for creative ways to get her to eat fresh foods. For instance, try veggies offered in lots of different ways -- whole, chopped up small, hung from perches, or shoved between the bars of the cage. If she enjoys spending time with you, try eating some of the food and then offering her a piece. (But don't give her the piece you've been eating. Human saliva is very dangerous for birds.) It can take months to get them on a healthier diet, which is why it's important not to try to make the switch by just taking away or severely limiting the old diet.


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks a ton! It's really late not but tomorrow I will text her previous owner and see what kind of diet she was on. Maybe she don't like even the seeds I've been giving he and I need to feed exactly what she is used to. I will also weigh her and we will go from there. I have a self-feeder that I keep fulls so there is no worry about her running out of seed. 

I am going to put her in her own cage tomorrow so I can monitor what she eats more closely. I will post updates as soon as possible. Fingers crossed! She is such a beautiful and sweet girl. I would really hate to lose her!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Is she used to having a self-feeder? Because another issue could be if she's afraid to use it, that might contribute to weight loss. Try to find out from her former owner what her cage and dishes were like as well. My rescue bird didn't know how to eat from a seed bowl when I first adopted her, because she was used to scavenging for things on the ground. So try to observe her and see what she's most comfortable with. You could even try offering her multiple dishes of seed to entice her to eat until her weight stabilizes.

It's not unusual for birds to lose weight during periods of adjustment, but it can really take a toll on their health, so knowing all of these things and trying not to change too much at once is really important.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Here's the thread about my rescue girl having trouble maintaining her weight: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=24213&highlight=weight+concerns

She ended up needing antibiotics, but if you look through the thread, I think you'll find some good suggestions about possible strategies to help birds gain weight.

ETA: I also edited your thread title to be more informative now that we know what is actually going on with your bird. This will help others advise you, and also make it easier for future members to find this thread if they have a similar problem.


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

I noticed you edited my thread. Thank you it made me laugh.

Girlie is eating. Although she doesn't seem to be eating a lot I do see her eat from her self feeder several times a day. I have offered pellets but have yet to see her eat any. I have also been offering oatmeal, broccoli, peas and carrots, and flax seed. I haven't touched any of that also. If she is eating an adequate supply of seed how long should it take for her to start gaining weight back. And I have a scale but can't convince her to stay on it to get a weight. Is there a trick to this?

Some more history about Girlie - she is 8 years old an an avid egg layer. Will her egg laying make her lose weight? It seems like laying eggs would suck the nutrients out of her. It looks like she is averaging an egg a week. I have been removing the eggs but this last time I've left it to see if it will deter her from laying more.


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

Girlie is eating a little more. Im waiting for the vet to call me back. In the meantime, can someone please answer my last post? How do I convince her to let me weigh her?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Is there something you can put on the scale that she can perch on? I use a bowl and have my birds perch on the rim. You could also try giving her a small treat to eat on the scale, if there's something she likes.


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

She will not eat for me; only out of her seed bowl and when she feels she isn't being watched. When I perch her on something she glides off. Her wings are clipped but that doesnt stop her from trying to escape. She will stay on my shoulder but that's about it.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I know some people recommend putting the bird in a closed paper bag or box on the scale, but it's up to you whether you think that would be too traumatic.


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

Traumatic or not, she needs to be weighed. Thanks!


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

RexiesMuM said:


> It depends on her really . Tiel weights can vary because of the size of the cockatiel . Like my Shake is a smaller guy he usualy weighs around 85-90 grams where as his mate Moonpie weighs a wopping 105 grams lol
> This would be a good thread to read on . I found it more helpful for me with my babies then the weights
> http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=17680


She weighs 104 grams which from what I've read is pretty decent but her keelbone is protruding. Im going to weigh her daily and see if she is loosing or gaining. She is eating but only her seed. I've got pellets, broccoli, flax seed, peas and carrots, and oatmeal available in her cage also but she has yet to touch these.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Huh. That sounds pretty high for her to still have a protruding keel bone. It's bigger than both of my birds, and while there certainly is individual variation, I'd be surprised to see a bird significantly underweight at over 100 grams. 

You did subtract out the weight of whatever you weighed her in, yes? Also, have you compared the feel of her keelbone to your other birds'? It is normal to be able to feel the tip of it to some extent, but from your description, it did sound like it was protruding too much. Does she look like she has a bigger body frame than your other birds? Definitely keep weighing and look for patterns. Try to weigh her at the same time each day, since that will give you the most consistent results.


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

Yes, I put her on a basket and weighed the basket and my scale will let me reset the weight. I will reweigh her tomorrow and see what I get. I did text her previous owner and ask if her keelbone has always protruded. She is of the same size as my other birds and you can't really tell anything looking at her beside of them. She acts like the others. Her energy seems good and she has bonded with a male. She was alone for many years and is a cronic egg layer. Will this play a part in her keelbone?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

It might. Is there any way for you to gently examine/feel around her abdomen and see if it feels normal? My concern with the weight, the egg laying, and the protruding keel bone would be that she might be retaining fluids as the result of an infection. That would cause her to weigh more, but still look under weight. Please understand I'm not trying to scare you, this is just something for you to consider with her situation.


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

I have felt around and she feels like my others but I really don't know what Im doing. I'm waiting on the vet to call me back and Im also waiting on her previous owner to text me back.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Well, I would definitely have her seen and discuss these things with the vet. For now I think you're doing the best you can just watching her and making sure she's eating as much as possible.


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

I can take her to an emergency vet but they charge 5 times more and do not specialize in birds. Is this worth doing so anyway? If not, what are some signs I can look for when an emergency strikes?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

No, I think for a case like hers, you should take her to a vet that has bird experience and will be able to do thoughtful tests to help figure out what is going on with her. Signs of worsening illness would be lethargy, not eating, abnormal droppings. If she stops perching and is staying at the bottom of the cage, or becomes unresponsive, that's really an emergency.


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

I just heard back from the previous owner. She had Girlie for 7 years and said her keelbone has always protruded this way. Could she have an odd body structure? She said her sister (whom bought her from a breeder) had her vetted and Girlie was given a bill of health.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I guess she could, but if it were my bird, I'd still get it checked out independently with the vet.


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## jgwalker (Jan 7, 2012)

enigma731 said:


> I guess she could, but if it were my bird, I'd still get it checked out independently with the vet.


Yeah, me too. Thanks so much for your input!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

You're welcome.  Please keep us updated. Sending her good thoughts.


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