# First seeds and poop now diarrhea



## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

I have a ten year old cockatiel named Pepper who I rescued. Everything was fine until a few days ago I noticed that there was seeds in her poop. So I took her to the vets. The vets found some things in the stool but didn't know what it was and now I am waiting for the results. 

In the mean time my Pepper has me worried sick. She is acting normal every other way except for the seeds that she had until today.... Today she is pooping out diarrhea and the part of the poop that is supposed to be clear, Uria?, has sort of a greenish ting to it.

I am worried as any research I have done says that she now can have a possible liver disease or disorder.  

What is going on with her! Does anyone here have a clue? Any advice would be great! Thanks.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

What was the dosage of the medication. Sometimes if the dosage is too high it can affect the liver and cause loose greenish droppings.


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

That's the thing... They just sent me home. She isn't on anything right now. They just sent the tests off to another lab. No meds no nothing.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...do you have a health food store nearby? If so, go to the herbal extract section and get a small jar of Dandelion extract. Add 10 drops to the drinking water. Change the exytract water 3 times a day. Also, if you live where Deandelion plants grow, give the bird fresh dandelion greens daily.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Also what is the birds daily diet?


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

I'm wondering if she has avain gastric yeast aka megabacteria. Strangely enough a friend of mine's Alexandrine has gone down with exactly the same symtoms as your bird, she has got her on Megabac-S and special needs diet.


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

Ok. I will try giving her dandilions. I gave her some vitamins too. Her diet is mostly seeds as that is what she had before I rescued her. I also have roudy bush pellets and exact cockatiel formula pellets. Along with millet. She was eating some of the roudy bush pellets yesterday. I am also going to post some before and now pics of her poop. They are a little blurry in some.

Before: 










Now: Any seeds are from millet that she ate and fell onto the poop



























I will try to get a fresh picture too as I just changed her cage bottom.


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

Jess said:


> I'm wondering if she has avain gastric yeast aka megabacteria. Strangely enough a friend of mine's Alexandrine has gone down with exactly the same symtoms as your bird, she has got her on Megabac-S and special needs diet.


 
I think that that is what she has but now because she has the yellow in her poop im thinking its hit her kidneys


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

If it was kidney then I would have thought the droppings might be a bit smelly, sort of tom cat type smell. Sometimes pssitosis can produce the yellow/green in the urates.
Looking at this poopoligy it's more likley to be liver, which could point to infection.

http://www.avianweb.com/poopology.html


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

If it is renal/kidney problems the urates (white part) would be thin, watery, and gritty looking when wet, and look like chalk when dried. Yoyr urates look well formed in the first couple of pix's. If there was a protozoa (such as giradia) causing a secondary bacteria infection the urates would have a thready, stringy look. And if just some type of bacterial infection the urates would change to a yellow ochre to a pale green. The darness of the droppings is an indication of slow gut transit (slow movement thru the intestinal tract.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I'm wondering if she has avain gastric yeast aka megabacteria
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This is not very common, especially in the States. But what does help more than the meds for suspected megabacteria is Hyrdochoric Acid (5% dilution, 30ml to a pint of water) Hydrochloric acid is formed in the body, I beleive in the proventirculus, and it aids in the digestion process. Sometimes if a bird is sodium defecient this can cause a reduced production of hydrochloric acid.


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

Well when the vet looked under a microscope she drew a picture of an oval and of a chained organism but never gave any meds. instead sent it off to another lab and sent me home. In other words my pepper has a bacterial infection and needs meds asap?


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

Also what about all of my other birds..... None of them are really showing any symptoms but the other three cockatiels were housed with her....

I also have budgies and 4 budgie babies.... they are looking healthy tho and growing as expected


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

srtiels said:


> If it is renal/kidney problems the urates (white part) would be thin, watery, and gritty looking when wet, and look like chalk when dried. Yoyr urates look well formed in the first couple of pix's. If there was a protozoa (such as giradia) causing a secondary bacteria infection the urates would have a thready, stringy look. And if just some type of bacterial infection the urates would change to a yellow ochre to a pale green. The darness of the droppings is an indication of slow gut transit (slow movement thru the intestinal tract.


I gave her some pappyah extract that is supposed to aid in digestion by providing digestive enzymes. Could this help?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Check with your vet to see if the results have came in. If he did a culture and sensitivity test this would show the bacteria and yeast levels in the body, and show which are in higher levels than listed for the species of bird. If there is a problem the report will list several medications that are either effect or ineffective for treatment. You can also request from your vet (if charged for it) a copy of this report so that you can save for future reference (such as if you go to another vet) if you have another problem in the future.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I gave her some pappyah extract that is supposed to aid in digestion by providing digestive enzymes. Could this help?
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The main benefit of papaya is that it helps to stimulate faster digestion. The enzymes can contribute to better nutrient absorption because it helps break down the food for better nutrient absorption.


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

srtiels said:


> Check with your vet to see if the results have came in. If he did a culture and sensitivity test this would show the bacteria and yeast levels in the body, and show which are in higher levels than listed for the species of bird.


I did call and the reports are still not in. As far as I know they did a fecal smear... Don't know about the culture test??? Would they do it at an out of clinic lab?


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

srtiels said:


> I gave her some pappyah extract that is supposed to aid in digestion by providing digestive enzymes. Could this help?
> ---------------------------
> 
> The main benefit of papaya is that it helps to stimulate faster digestion. The enzymes can contribute to better nutrient absorption because it helps break down the food for better nutrient absorption.



So that would be good? If you don't think so I will stop sprinkling it on her food. Right now you are the best help I have for hopefully saving her life. Until the results come back I'm useless and helpless for helping her at all.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...a fecal smear in the office would most probably have been a gram stain. Look on your receipt from the vet visit and see what was done in office. Ususally with a culture a vet would use a long swab and get a sample from the vent or the crop to send out to a lab. Or did the vet draw blood?


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

no the only thing they did was took a few samples of her poop. I called to ask if there was an avian vet there before I took her in and they said that the vet she saw was.... I don't think she actually is. I think it was just a lie to get my money and now my poor bird is going to suffer for it.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

Here's a link on avain gastric yeast incase it turns out to be that.

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww54eiv.htm

There is a medicine you can get from vetafarm called megabac-S. There used to be a med called fungalin liquid by a company called squibb but they only make lozengers now.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

If you have a large petstore chain near you you can look for PROZYME. It is usually found in the dog/cat supplement section. This would work alot better than the papaya extract. Use it the same way you have with the papaya.


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

Altho I could just be jumping the gun. I am really worried for her and altho her poop is the only thing that is wrong I am terrified I'm going to lose her. She is still fairly active. Chirping, drinking, eating. I am just worried that now with the diarrhea she will dehydrate or its going to damage her organs with what ever she may have.


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

srtiels said:


> If you have a large petstore chain near you you can look for PROZYME. It is usually found in the dog/cat supplement section. This would work alot better than the papaya extract. Use it the same way you have with the papaya.


I have petsmart? P.J. Pets? Would they have it you think?


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

Pics taken just now,


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

no the only thing they did was took a few samples of her poop.
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Even if they do not have an avian vet, if they sent out the samples to a lab that does avian samples all the non-avian vet has to do is look at results in which bacteria/yeast is pathogenic and it lists the meds that are effective.


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

srtiels said:


> no the only thing they did was took a few samples of her poop.
> ---------------------------------
> 
> Even if they do not have an avian vet, if they sent out the samples to a lab that does avian samples all the non-avian vet has to do is look at results in which bacteria/yeast is pathogenic and it lists the meds that are effective.


Well I hope that lab sends some results back soon to help my little girl.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I have petsmart? P.J. Pets? Would they have it you think?
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You can phone them and ask. Sometimes a store can also special order for you if their distributor carries it.


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

So from her poops you think she has a bacterial infection? The ones just posted just look like the feces isnt formed properly.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Feces form and color can be from what she is eating, and it does not look like diarrhea. The yellow discoloration could be bacterial infection. I'm not sure why the droppings are so dark...unless she is eating alot of millet which will contribute to a darker deces.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

Here's another megabac link, put it up as it suggests the droppings can be black/dark green.

http://www.vetafarm.com/pages/Megabacteria.html


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

she has been eating alot of millet. I have been giving her millet daily because it is easier to crack and eat. Once I started giving her millet it seems like thats when the seeds started to dissappear and the poops started to look like they do now.


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

and now I know she actually has diarrhea...


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

I actually think that Jess is right and she does have megabacteria aka Avian Gastric Yeast.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

The frothy bibbles in the droppings are a sign of neuropathic gastric dilatation. A vet can do a test to see what the PH levels are, and 2.6 or higher would be an indication that the problem is in the proventriculus.


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

Ok so I got a call from the vets and I've got a bacterial infection on my hands. The vet said there were tons of bacteria that were causing her problems. She is going onto a strong bacterial cleaner as she has alot of bad bacteria and barely any good. Picking up meds right away!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

That is good you heard from the vet. See if she will give you a copy of the test reports so that you can save the info, and explain the type of bacteria and how the bird would have gotten it.


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

from what I know they are still not sure exactly what bacteria it is but her bacteria levels are out of wack. The vet said there was way more bad bacteria and not nearly enough good bacteria. Tomorrow I'm going to the actual vet office to get another antibiotic and will ask her for the report then. I had to go to an emergency clinic to get the antibiotics yesterday or else I would not have gotten them until Monday.


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

Ok.... Now I am lost for words. I just went to check on Pepper to see how she was doing and she has LAID AN EGG :S.... So now the question is does she really have something wrong or could it be the egg that was causing the different poops :S ... I am stunned. I can not believe that she laid an egg. As for the egg... it is cracked... she must have laid it from the perch. It looks fine for calcium but my question is should I maybe get her some liquid calcium to replenish her calcium levels? as she is about ten years old.


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

I am going to the vets tomorrow to get another medication for her so I will ask the vet there as well.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

Have they said what antibiotic that will be prescribing? If it's doxycycline you won't be able to give her a liquid calcium as it stops the absorbtion of the doxy.


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

I'm not sure what other med she is going on but I will ask and make sure before I do anything. She has a cuttle bone in her cage so I'm pretty sure that's doing the trick.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

My cockies love these manu millet logs.

http://www.petsmart.com/product/inc...1J7Qyt88rQSDcJJGd!409698498?productId=2754259


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

Ok so for now Pepper has stopped laying eggs. She will be finished one of the two medications she was put onto for a bacterial infection tonight. Last night she was looking pretty down and tired so I gave her a shot of liquid calcium and today she looks great! Maybe she had a little bit of a calcium deficiency? Anyways her poops are starting to look more normal. Hopefully once she is done the meds and is on bene bac to boost her good bacteria up she will become happy and healthy again.

The vet was telling me that I should be worried about PDD? I don't think she is actually an avian vet  Which sucks because I even called and asked and they said yes. She doesn't seem to know alot about birds so I don't know. None of my other birds are looking or acting sick and my four baby chicks are looking as healthy as can be.


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## angel226 (Jul 16, 2010)

I know I posted here a few years ago. Just letting everyone know she is now 15 years old and still going. She's still laying eggs from time to time, go figure, and I have not had anymore problems with the seedy poop.


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