# Back with more eggs and more questions



## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

After a couple rough weeks in our home I'm back. I got my emotional support animal letter from my doctor and was able to bring my birds home last night. Unfortunately due the circumstances my male and female had to be caged together and in the last 7 days she has laid 5 more eggs after her first clutch of 7 laid end of January. 

The birds were incubating but not full time and since being home they are in separate cages. 
My male would sit the eggs during the day but he is very aggressive towards my female which is why I was hoping we wouldn't be in this situation again. 

I can't kill the eggs, I said I would be I can't bring myself to do it.


Questions. Why does my hen lay more than every other day? 

What would you guys do in this situation?

I have a heating pad under the cage where the eggs are, there is no grate in this cage but since my hen is young and my cock usually takes on sitting during the day no one is sitting on the eggs. 

Should I put him in the cage with the nest during the day and her in the main big cage and then switch them over at night or just leave them as is and let nature decide if any eggs develop? 

If any eggs hatch she will be in the cage with the nest full time so I can offer her foods that are baby safe and co parent with her so we can avoid last month's tragedy. I think she will be a better parent without the stress of a male who won't let her in the nest and won't feed the babies.

I'm assuming the eggs won't hatch since they aren't being incubated full time but just wondering what others would do. 
I'm upset to be in this situation as I had them separated to avoid this until my landlord decided to make a fuss and force my birds out of my house.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

You can move the hen somewhere else to keep her safe while the male is sitting on the eggs. That would increase the odds of hatching success if she's not doing a good job of it. Incubating eggs artificially is tricky business and you're not likely to have any success using a heating pad - it's likely that the temperature and humidity will both be wrong. 

You can candle the eggs to find out if they're developing. If they're not developing, you can start using serious hormone control techniques to get her out of breeding mode and take away the nestbox. That ought to put an end to the egg laying.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

They were covering the birds 14 hours a day and there was no nest box! These 2 are just young and going through puberty, so crazy hormonal I guess. My husband is against me doing anything to hatch the eggs and rightfully so after last month's disastrous outcome and my weekend full of tears after losing the last baby I had become so attached to. 
They are really bad parents. So bad. Her from stress and young age and him from not being bonded to her and I think from being hand raised. He had 0 interest in feeding the chicks and the look of pure wonder and bewilderment when he seen her feed them was just too much! He tried to get a turn instead of helping. 

One egg is developing although I can't tell yet if it is an early death or just really early on in development. They didn't start sitting until the 4th egg this time so we still have a couple days to figure out what to do this time. 

I could easily incubate the eggs in the brooder I used for the babies, i have everything I need and got really good at keeping my temp and humidity just right and I am always home so I could turn the eggs but I don't want to, I don't want all the responsibility of feeding them first born and so small every 2 hours without help. I rather just help her. I don't have that kind of experience. 

I'll see if he wants to sit tomorrow. When he is away from the nest he doesn't care at all, even though the cages are side by side. Once he is in it he's like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

This time I would recommend 24 hours of light to see if that doesn't knock them out of breeding mode once they're done with this nest. Honestly, if the male is going to sit all the time, I'd let him. Since he seems better at it then her? Birds learn from watching each other. So they learn from watching other birds feed babies and they even learn to mate by watching other birds mate (I've seen it, it's kind of creepy lol.) Some, like your hen, have the natural instinct, and some like your male, have to learn. Maybe he will have picked it up this time but who knows.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> He tried to get a turn instead of helping.


This is what Vlad did the first time I let him and his girlfriends serve as foster parents. He has two "mates" but can't figure out how mating works, so they can't have their own babies. But he turned into a champion baby-feeder the second time around, and is an excellent parent in general.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

No one is sitting on the eggs. I put them both in there and neither is sitting on them or seems concerned in anyway about them but I know she's going to lay another tonight as her belly looks plump. 
These two....I marked the eggs with 3 dots of different colors to see if they are even turning them and I don't think they are. 
Maybe the move back home took them out of breeding mode because I haven't seen them mate.

Does this look d.i.s.? It does to me.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

I was wrong, they are turning the eggs. Just not sitting on them. 1 looks dead and the others haven't started developing because they haven't been sat on. The oldest egg is 8 days old the next is 6 days so they have a couple days to decided to sit before the eggs start to die off.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

The one you posted doesn't look DIS because the veins are still red. A DIS egg is greying, it wouldn't have the red veins anymore. That egg may still have a chance if they sit on them.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

I'm surprised because it is cold and hasn't been sat on all weekend except at night. Poor thing lol


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

If it's warmer in your house during the day, it may not need to be sat on, only turned. This can happen in warmer areas.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

It gets warm but I wouldn't say warm enough that they don't need to be sat. Maybe low to mid 70s. I think now that Dad is home he has abandoned the nest because he hasn't gone near it once. All but one egg is hurried under the Aspen. 
And momma has a buldging belly and I am honestly surprised she didn't lay last night but she doesn't follow the typical schedule. She will lay 2 or 3 days in a row and then not again for 3 days. It's weird but there is definitely another egg in there. 
It's taking everything for me not to take those poor eggs but I am afraid I'm no better than their parents even though I wish I was.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

And there is no sense in hooking up the brooder light because in an open container where I can't control the humidity the eggs will just dry out.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

I have another 1 developing. No idea how they are surviving.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I've read that burying eggs under the bedding may be a throwback behavior from their reptile ancestors. Reptiles are cold-blooded and can't use body heat to incubate eggs, so they often bury them to help keep them warm. It's useful to have sunlight or rotting vegetation or something to generate some actual heat, and the embryos develop much more slowly than a bird embryo does in an incubated egg. But you can get some development this way. 

There are also some ground-nesting birds who cover up their eggs when they have to leave the nest, then uncover them and sit on them when the parent returns. So buried eggs don't necessarily mean that the parent doesn't plan to sit on them later. Just that they're not planning to sit on them right now. Vlad buried the eggs the first time he served as a foster parent but didn't do it with later clutches. I had to go on an egg hunt to find them.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

I put the brooder light near them probably maybe it will be enough. I'll set up the humidifier this evening. Ugh, I am sucker I know. But they deserve a chance. Even if it's just a small chance.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Cinnamon buried an egg once...I couldn't find it anywhere in the nest, I thought I was crazy. Then when I checked one day she had uncovered it and it developed with the rest of the eggs. Weirdos.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

Whelp, someone buried 4 eggs together, and Ell dug a hole in the corner and laid her 6th egg while I was out today, 1 of the eggs rolled down into the hole and was buried there lol I think Bowie is burying them but I don't know why, it could be because there is no top on the box. A few inches above the box I zip tied a square grate and covered it with paper towels so no one poops on the eggs. I can't put a top on the box because Ellie needs to be able to have easy access out when Bowie decided she can't be in there. 
He's not even careful, he just jumps in the box and doesn't care if he lands on the eggs. Ell carefully and gently climbs in. I think I'm going to fill it higher until the chicks hatch and I'm hopeful this time that with my help from the start she won't feel over whelmed and who knows maybe this time if he sees her feed them he will feed them instead of just trying to eat left overs off their faces. 
There box is in the same spot it was with the first clutch and they seem more happy with that. Last time, right before I took the babies I moved the cockatiels into a smaller cage with the babies and the change made Bowie less aggressive so that is the plan this time. 

They share a big cage with 2 parakeets and I am thinking about taking them out so that I control what food the cockatiels eat because I want to introduce pellets and baby safe food with more liquid so we don't have a repeat of last time. 

It will be hard for Nacho because we just lost Pico (the budgies) on Saturday and he really wanting to seek comfort in the cockatiels and if they could talk I think they would be saying...gross haha they don't mind the parakeets but they aren't interested in being best friends either!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Eating food off the babies' faces is how Vlad got started lol. It's part of the parents' job to clean up food spills, so he's actually doing something useful. 

Don't try to feed the chicks when they're very very tiny unless you have to. It's very easy to aspirate a tiny baby, and they don't need very much food so the hen can take care of their needs pretty easily if she's willing to do the job. The demands start getting more intense when the oldest chick is about a week old, and handfeeding isn't as dangerous at that age.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

She may not need help right away IF I take away most of her seeds and get her to accept soft foods because last time she didn't give the babies enough water and she mostly only fed 1, and she fed that one a lot but didn't give it water so they all had trouble digesting. I don't think they plan to sit on these eggs. At some point one of them sat long enough to get 2 started but I haven't seen anyone sit on these and the weird thing is that she is still laying and they are still mating. 

They are honestly just clueless and Ellie having such anxiety problems doesn't help. If I put Bowie in the nest Ellie will get in but the second he climbs out so does she. Last time by the 3rd egg she was on night shift and him day shift and I think since he won't sit during the day she is confused so she isn't sitting either. I doubt any of these will make it and after this the birds are being separated and it might be in Eleanor's best interest to find a new home far away from Bowie. He's a very selfish bird. Don't get me wrong, I love him to bits but in his mind, this is his world and we are just living in it. Eleanor included, and it makes me really sad for her because since she was never handled that is all she has and I think it's messing her up in the head.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

But without actually taking the eggs and setting up an incubator I can't get them higher than about 90 during the day and 81 at night so they are going to die. 
Poor little ones.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

How long should I keep the box and eggs in there? Like a week after the last egg? Considering they only spend probably 5 minutes a day in there I don't think they are planning on sitting or raising this clutch. I don't think either of them would be torn if I took the box even today lol but since she laid 7 last time she may have another one to go and if after a week from then they still aren't sitting the eggs will be bad.

The reason I thought the other 1 was dead in shell is because the blood is like a ring. I thought that meant it had died? She how it is a distinct O shape. And it's not changed in 3 days. Well I will have to check it today but yesterday it looked the same.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

Maybe this is better...they are such small thumbnails when I'm going through my gallery.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

If it hasn't changed in three days then yes, they're probably dead. 

I would wait until they are completely ignoring the eggs. If you remove them too soon she'll try to lay again. Since this set isn't going to hatch, start hormone control immediately so that she won't lay anymore.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

They are alive, don't know how they are managing but I looked very closely and the viens on both are moving. I have those 2 and yesterday's egg wrapped in a towel in a bowl under the brooder light set to 98 degrees and next to the humidifier. I did the same for the first 2 last night but figured they wouldn't make it through the day in the low 80s but looks like they are slowly chugging along. Still not sure what to do. We are leaving on a cruise April 26th and will be gone for 4 or 5 days, the babies will be about 12-13 days old. Unless the parents have it down or I can find an experienced hand feeder to bird sit them, I'm not really sure how that would work. 

We are flying out of Vegas though and there are tons of breeders there. Maybe I can find someone willing to board and feed the babies for 5 days if mom and dad aren't doing the job.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

Bowie is actually from a breeder in Vegas. Maybe I can find out who and see if they will board the chicks.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Honestly, contact breeders closest to you and see if they can foster the eggs. This way you won't have to worry about it and they'll have experienced birds that will sit properly and feed the babies correctly. It doesn't sound like your pair is going to do it and it is way too hard/dangerous to hand feed brand new babies.

Also, was your budgie in the cage with the nest box and tiels? If so, that may have been part of the problem.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

Yes they all live together which I know some people disagree with but there has never been any aggression between them. Bowie would let the keets sit near the nest box and not care one bit but it was just Ell he didn't want in there. One of the eggs died. I can't tell yet with the other and the last has only been being incubated since last night but I honestly I don't want to do this. I had hoped they would decided to sit but they haven't even gone in the box since yesterday and he's still courting her. I just want to separate them. 
She is too young to keep laying all these eggs, she's not even 2. 

I checked all the eggs last night 2 were infertile, 1 was fertile but never got incubated, 2 had early viens (one died over night) and then there is the 6th egg that I just started incubating last night. 

I'm going to separate them today and put the box with her with the 3 eggs that are no good, set up the other 3 in a proper incubator and do what you said and try and find someone who can take them. 

I don't think there are any around here but maybe someone from Vegas can meet me. 

Thank you for the advice and help. I just want what is best for everyone. 
I never wanted to breed my birds but I desperately tried to keep those babies alive and I loved them. Now I just need to figure out what will be best for Ellie. 

I have a hard time finding people who I think are good enough to own birds because I see and have had to rescue and foster enough of them to know people treat them like they are disposable.
She is a good girl, just anxious because of Bowie and she needs someone who can and actually wants to work with her. I just don't know how to find that person!


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

Think I found someone who can can take the eggs. They have a pair who have raised 3 clutches and are sitting on eggs right now! I asked for choice of the babies and said they can keep or sale the others.

Ell just went in the box right now for the first time since yesterday and I think it is only because she is going to lay again today. 

The 3 bad eggs are in the box and I will be able to tell them apart if she lays again because I marked all the eggs with 3 different color dots so I could turn them. 

I'm happy and hopeful that some of these babies will have a chance. 🙂


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I'm glad you found someone! At this point this is the best you can do. 

As for keeping all the birds together, it wasn't aggression I was worried about. It's just that the tiels may not sit because of the other birds in the cage or getting near the box. If they get along all right, maybe Ell would do better housed with a budgie than with the male.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

I spoke with the previous owner and found out that Bowie is actually only 15 months old and Ellie is 18 months old. Apparently the only person she was ever keen on was the exhusband who she did step up for. The woman sad for 3 months she would hold Ellie down or wrap her in a towel and force herself on her by trying to kiss and pet her. (I know....) so now I am not sure I will ever make progress with her. She doesn't like people but she is desperate to be loved. 
She laid another egg and she is currently sitting on all 7 through the nights and a good part of the day. He of course is not doing anything. I'm going to candle the eggs in a few weeks and if any have made it they will be going to the foster parents. 
I was pleased to hear they don't pull the babies just handle them often and they live in town so hopefully I can pop in once in a while. I'm hopeful there will be a female that I can let Ellie live with. If not may be they will have a female I can have.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

I meant in a few days I will candle the eggs. Hopefully she won't lay anymore.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I'm glad you found someone! So Ellie is sitting on the eggs now?

Trust me, it may seem impossible, but don't give up on Ellie. She just needs someone who is willing to take the time to get to know her and go at her pace, without forcing her to do something she doesn't want to do. Lots of millet and patience will go a long way.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If you see any eggs that are turning dark, this is an egg that has died and should be removed from the nest. Seven eggs is a lot for one bird to sit on, and she might have a hard time keeping all of them covered. It will help her out if you can remove any eggs that are obviously not viable. Cockatiels can't count so she won't miss it. In general they're happy as long as there's still at least one egg in the nest.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

I thought 7 was a lot too, and now there is 9. I hadn't checked the nest because I didn't want to stress her out and both her and Bowie have been in the nest together most of the time. I think 2 of the eggs that were developing died but there is 3 or 4 that are developing. 

They are acting different this time. Bowie has been a lot less aggressive and instead of taking turns they are just both in there most of the time. Ellie is more protective of the nest this time.

I'm really hoping she is done laying, I don't know why she still is. She did lay the 7th the 28th of March so she probably laid the 8th on the 30th and the 9th on the 1st. So hopefully if there is not a new 1 tomorrow she is done. 

I'm not giving the eggs to the person I originally planned to. I told them multiple times that I was going to wait about 5 days so I can see which are developing and make sure she is done and they keep asking everyday for the eggs. It isn't sitting right with me. 

I found someone else who is retired and used to breed birds and has a 7 yr old cockatiel she fed since 3 days old. I know parents are ideal but she has the time and experience and we've emailed a lot and she is real "bird person" like me and I feel more trusting of her. 

Now that I am more experienced I know what to look for and can hand the babies over to her at the first sign of trouble if the parents have any issues. 

I'm also going to remove the budgies into another cage so I can try and get the cockatiels eating some different foods.

I just can't believe she has 9. Is there anything else I can give her for calcium besides cuttle bone? The cockatiels are so picky because they weren't introduced anything besides seeds until I got them.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

The other person was probably wanting to make sure that their birds would be able to accept your eggs if they needed to. If their foster parents weren't hormonal anymore and not on eggs anymore, it could be more difficult to get them to accept them. I'd actually be thankful they were so concerned about my eggs lol.

It sounds like she started laying a third clutch. It could be that she was knocked out of laying with all the moving and stuff, then got back into being hormonal and started laying all over again even though she already head eggs. I would remove the bad eggs so that she has less to sit on. They won't be able to incubate all those eggs.

As for food, try leafy greens. You can hang them from the cage bars like toys to see if they will eat them. Issue is, I wouldn't really worry about diet right now, any changes could make them abandon the nest again.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

Well I did ask and their hen laid it's first egg exactly the day I posted I guess and I think it may not be an adult I am talking to. I think the birds don't even belong to them and are the grandmother's birds. In any case I have to trust my gut on this one. I will pull out any bad eggs today. That should leave them with 5 2 of which may not be good. We will see.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

She never stopped laying through the move. They just didn't sit on them until the 7th wad laid. One of the old eggs I thought had no chance is developing lol


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

I took out two DIS 1 infertile and 1 that was fertile but didn't develop. There is 1 more that looks infertile but it is one of the new ones and one more that might be DIS that I will check on in a few more days. So 4 or 5 should be much easier to sit. A couple of them are looking really good. I have to say I'm surprised one of those older ones is doing great. 

After the next check in a couple days I probably won't bother them for a good week. They are both acting really different this time around. Very weird to see them both in the nest together and how quiet and polite Bowie is "talking" to El. 

Still taking the budgies out today. I just need to run and grab some things for them from the store.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

She's got a belly pooch. She's going to lay again.... I'm worried for her health. That will be 17 eggs since end of January.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It'll be easier to keep all the eggs warm if both parents are sitting on them at the same time.

You said earlier that they were still mating while there was egg laying going on. The parent birds usually stop mating once egg laying begins, so I think maybe they didn't really acknowledge that there was a second clutch being produced. The fact that no one was sitting on the first five eggs or so points that way too. Some birds don't start sitting until several eggs have been laid, but they tend to start sitting once egg #3 has arrived. 

Have they stopped mating now? Hopefully the egg laying will stop soon now that both parents are taking it more seriously.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

I hope so. I want to say last time I seen them mating was 2 days ago. 
Hopefully this will be her last one. If it is fertile and develops there will be 4 or 5 chicks. 
I'll keep everyone posted!
I found an absolutely wonderful retired lady in town who used to breed and had over 20 years experience including feeding baby cockatiels. We are going to meet and come up with a game plan. We are both hopeful that this second time around with a couple changes they might have more success and she will be on call to step in if anything goes wrong. I'm expecting my first baby to hatch between the 15th and 17th.


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