# Newborns dying



## rukboy11 (Feb 13, 2008)

My wife has a pair of cockatiels which recently laid a clutch of 5 eggs ( 1st time parents), 3 of them hatched and the 2 remaining eggs they still nest. The problem is each morning we are finding that they keep rejecting the smallest ones and so we found the 1st one dead one morning and then a second one the next morning. The 3rd one we pulled out yesterdaywhen we found it cold as we don't have a brooder my wife and i took turns warming it back up with our hands, after 2 hrs it started moving again and we gave it a few drips of the newborn mix on the beak and it slowly started to take it in to fill up its crop...i forgot to mention this chick was like 5days old...we then put the chick back in to the nesting box and saw the mother climbed back into the nesting box that night and sat on the eggs and had the chick under its tail, when we woke this morning the poor little chick had died and both parents were outside eating away...we find that the mother doesn't seem to stay in the nesting box for longer than 5mins always outside sitting on her little swing and eating....while the father does a better job ad stays in there longer.....

My questions are:

1.) Should we have taken the chick out and warmed it back up? or left it in there? I assumed it would have died if we left it? Since both parents don't seem to always be in the nesting box to keep them warm.

2.) After the chick was warm again should we have given it back to the parents or was it because we had intervened the parents rejected him again. We assume the reason they were rejected in the first place was the parents keep leaving the nesting and the chicks get cold and when the parents come back the chicks are weak and the parents give up rather than having a defect?

3.) can anyone recommend anywhere in Sydney to purchase a brooder (I assume this is probably the best way to keep these guys warm when the parents decide to go on holidays?I.e stay out of the nesting box for an hr or 2 regularly....or is there any recommended DIY brooders that anyone here has made? We want to try and keep these last 2 chicks alive if they hatch...

4.) If we pull chicks out and put them in the brooder which are 1-4 days old (as parents don't seem to keep them warm) can we reintroduce them back into the nesting box to allow the parents to feed them? or should we just go into hand feeding with the syringe?

Thanks


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## xxxSpikexxx (Jul 30, 2007)

Some cockatiels are not meant to be parents. Here are some links I found http://www.cockatielcottage.net/breeding.html and http://www.cockatielcottage.net/feeding.html hopefully someone who has breed birds before can give you more info


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## rukboy11 (Feb 13, 2008)

Thanks for the links, we read them once the 1st chick hatched.

My wife just visited the locale aviary and she got told to just let them die, if the parents aren't taking turns around the clock then they aren't going to survive and no point getting a brooder. Is this right?

Has anyone else here had the issue with majority of the 1st hatch not surviving?


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

I haven't bred tiels, but i have bred budgies and found that some first time parents just don't know what to do with the chicks. If the next two hatch i would take them out and try to hand rear them yourselves. I'm not sure where you could find a brooder (try asking at some pet shops) but in the mean time you can set up a make shift brooder with an old fishtank and either a heat mat (like what you would use for reptiles) or a heat lamp. Either stick the heat pad under the tank so it warms up from below, or shine the lamp on top. 

Some large scale breeders would just let the chicks die, or else they may have a second pair with similar age chicks which they could foster the abandoned chicks to. What you and your wife will need to do is buy some hand rearing formula and take on the job yourself. With such young chicks it will be difficult but not impossible. To begin with the chicks will need feeding every three hours. They won't need much at all to fill their crops. It will be a lot easier if you can find somebody to show you how to hand feed, an avian vet or another breeder could help you with that.


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

I would not pull the chicks out and then put them back in once you pull you should be prepared to take over and start feeding them, I would read up as much as you can on hand feeding if not done properly it can kill them, like Bea said you can make a make shift brooder lots of people do that you can do a search on the internet for different ways people make them if your using a heating pad be careful make sure you have the right temperature and put the heaing pad only on one side so if it gets to hot the babies can move off of the heat


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

I also was meaning to mention that while the babies are small put them in a small container with tissues or something lining it and then put that inside the tank.  That way they can't roll around and get cold. If they both hatch they can help keep each other warm.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

I made my own brooder I can't afford the normal ones 
I got a pair of baby lovebirds when they were 2 weeks old and I took 2 plastic totes (rubbermaid kind) the bottom one got filled with water and i placed a submersiable heater(for fish tanks) in to the water, get one that you can control the temp on, and then i sat the other rubber maid tub into it, and i also bought a device that tells you the inside and outside temps *your supposed to place the cord outside on a window if you use it for that) but since i was using it for my brooder i put the wire part inside with the babies, i lined the plastic tote with towels and used a small stuffed animal for them to cuddle up to , I also wrapped a blanket (one my kids grew out of) around the bottom of the 'brooder' that way it helped keep in the heat, and I used a desk lamp that i could position how i needed it, I put the lid over it in the opposit dirrection it's supposed to go and then Laid another towel over top of it to keep the heat it

I've also read where people use those plastic containers with a screen in the lid that you can use for snakes, turtles, spiders etc. 

I found out how to make my own online, but I can't recall the website any more


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## rukboy11 (Feb 13, 2008)

atvchick95 said:


> I made my own brooder I can't afford the normal ones
> I got a pair of baby lovebirds when they were 2 weeks old and I took 2 plastic totes (rubbermaid kind) the bottom one got filled with water and i placed a submersiable heater(for fish tanks) in to the water, get one that you can control the temp on, and then i sat the other rubber maid tub into it, and i also bought a device that tells you the inside and outside temps *your supposed to place the cord outside on a window if you use it for that) but since i was using it for my brooder i put the wire part inside with the babies, i lined the plastic tote with towels and used a small stuffed animal for them to cuddle up to , I also wrapped a blanket (one my kids grew out of) around the bottom of the 'brooder' that way it helped keep in the heat, and I used a desk lamp that i could position how i needed it, I put the lid over it in the opposit dirrection it's supposed to go and then Laid another towel over top of it to keep the heat it
> 
> I've also read where people use those plastic containers with a screen in the lid that you can use for snakes, turtles, spiders etc.
> ...


Thanks for all the advice guys, with the tote brooder did u leave any gap for air to circulate in? 

And i'd assume u didn't put much water in otehrwise the smaller tote would float? or do u chuck soemthing heavy in there to keep it down? or how much water would u put in?

http://www.utm.edu/departments/cece/idea/brood.shtml

What do u guys think of this DIY? Im more inclined to go with ATVchick advice.....with the lamp did u put it on the same side or opposite side to where the chics are

I've also attached a diagram of what i think ATVchick did. Does it look accurate ATV? Hope i attached it right.

Sorry i can't seem to get a picture under 19kbs even drawing in word.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jenandjonm/id16.html

I found what i think you were advising.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

rukboy11 said:


> Thanks for all the advice guys, with the tote brooder did u leave any gap for air to circulate in?
> 
> And i'd assume u didn't put much water in otehrwise the smaller tote would float? or do u chuck soemthing heavy in there to keep it down? or how much water would u put in?
> 
> ...




I saw the cooler one after i had mine done, but let me see if i can find a pic that shows the brooder and i'll look for the website i got it from the only thing I did different from the website was i didn't use as big of totes as they did but mine wasn't for big parrots 

I had the bottom one pretty much filled all the way, the water needs to go over the submersiable heater and then then when I put the other tote inside the water filled one it stayed it didn't float or nothing 










here is the set up , I left the lid just like that, only when she was done eating and still small I'd drape a bath towel over it and air circulated in it still,

when I used the lamp ( i just basically used it until the submirsable pump heated to the correct temp and i got the brooder to hold heat) i had it at the opposit end of the bird, and I kept a close eye on the thermostate that i used if it got too hot I'd pull the towel down or move the light back until i got the right temp.

I can't find the website i got it from now, but when i do i'll post it here


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## Babi (Oct 9, 2007)

I raised my cockatiels from 2 weeks old and I used to breed lovebirds and pull them at around 10 days old. 

For the lovebirds I used a 10 gal aquarium lined with paper towels and a heating pad under one half of it. I put the babies in a margerine container lined in tissues in the tank until they climbed out themselves.

For my tiels I used one of those plastic terrariums with the lids (about $15). I again used the heating pad under one half, until I found that they never went to the heated half anymore. And at that time I started puting them in their cage during the day. I used the margerine container again. I put a towel over them to keep the warm in. Once they started moving around I put some millet in and a VERY small dish of water. Once they were eating the millet, I put in pellets. Once they were all feathered I put them in the cage. I use the terrarium for travel now.


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## rukboy11 (Feb 13, 2008)

Thanks all for the help.

Unfortunately our super lazy Lardydah girl decided she enjoys sitting outside the nest on her little swing than keeping anything warm...we think the eggs aren't any good now cuz nobody bothered to keep them warm the make however did come back a few hrs later to check but we put the eggs under a lamp now but we may have been too late....since the parents weren't swapping shifts. Looks like we have to wait till next season. 

Otherwise we'll just need to beat up the female one, hahaha or chuck out that **** swing....:wacko:


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

It's not unusual for this to happen with first time parents. You might have better luck next time!


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## Aly (Jul 30, 2007)

How old are the parents?


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## rukboy11 (Feb 13, 2008)

the female is 2yrs and the male is about the same (we got him from the pet store about a yr ago so not 100% sure)


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## xxxSpikexxx (Jul 30, 2007)

I guess they were just not meant to be parents.


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## Aly (Jul 30, 2007)

rukboy11 said:


> the female is 2yrs and the male is about the same (we got him from the pet store about a yr ago so not 100% sure)


The reason I asked is some young parents have a hard time getting use to the responsibilities that come with having a clutch so they don't always do what they're suppose to.


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## rukboy11 (Feb 13, 2008)

The latest with our ditsy female...:blush:...there at it again s:wacko we put the nesting box back in on the w/e...and woola we had a stickey beak and they've started laying eggs again...do u guys normally seperate your pairs to stop them trying to breed too many times in a season?...

I think we're prepared now we picked up some small containers and also ended up getting a 50w heat bulb and ceramic fitting, planning to use that to heat the homemake brooder....have any of u guys used an old style mercury thermometer? just wondering as see most of u guys are using electronic ones...i tested the setup on the w/e without wrapping the containers and the thermo's read 32 degrees after 2-3hrs...just so we are prepared should we be keeping it around 34ish? and whats the minimum we can allow it to get back down to? Also how do u guys manage the humidity? 

we aren't planning to intervene this time unless the female decides to play on her swing again all day...so far shes just been sitting on the egg, not sure if shes laid another one....


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

They really shouldn't breed to many times in a season its not good for there health its not uncommon for them to have back to back clutches but if this one doesn't work out for them I would let them have a rest and try and do everything to stop them laying eggs for awhile. I would not use the kind of thermometer your talking about you need a non breakable one as far as the temperature it depends how old the babies are as they need different temperatures (in deg F) at different stages I would use a heating pad under half the brooder.
1-5 days 94 - 96
6-9 days 93 - 95
10-14 days 91 - 93
15-21 days 86 - 90
22-28 days 81 - 85
29-35 days 76 - 80
36 days to weaning 70 - 75

Here is an article that might help you out with temperature and humidity I would read all I could on it so you don't end up having any problems.
http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww64e.htm


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

I agree with Laura, after this clutch i would take the nest box away and leave it away till next season.  They'll still mate from time to time because the urge to breed will never go away (it's an instinct - reproducing) but as long as you don't give them the box they won't have a place to lay and incubate any eggs.


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## rukboy11 (Feb 13, 2008)

if they are mating won't they find someplace to lay eggs i.e the bottom of the cage if we take out the box? as they need to deposit the eggs someplace?


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

Not all male female pairs will lay eggs they have to be under the right conditions to lay them if you don't provide those conditions they will not lay them, the reason your female is laying again is because you put the box back in, it is not healthy for a female to keep laying eggs it will cause her health to deteriorate. Let them have this clutch then take the box down and give them a long rest they will need it 

Other items that can help take a hen out of re nesting are


* removal of anything they can nest near or around
* pulling down the amount of light
* removing anything that they can preen upon
* rearranging cage or moving them to an alternate cage


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## Sophia (Aug 11, 2007)

I agree with Laura, all of the things she has said apply!


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