# Is "he" really male?



## Jay (Sep 12, 2011)

Ok some of you may remember my previous posts about my cockatiel being so quiet well hes definetly comfy with things now he is preening, sleeping and not running away from me anymore

but...

hes still quiet?? i know some can be quiet but when i actually saw him in the shop i picked him out becuase he was really chattering and doing all sorts of noises... since hes been here though.. i've had 1 session of amazing sounding wolf whissles and about 2 times he has raised his wings slightly and done his thing..

now... is he definetly male? also while we are at is is my female, female?

Male:




























Girl:










I'm just trying to work out from all angles why he is so quiet now... its annoying lol i wouldn't mind so much but i know he is a talker and he has alot of stuff to say which is really nice. so why isn't he anymore...?


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm not good at sexing tiels. I'm sure others can help- but just wanted to say your tiels are beautiful.


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## morla (Aug 15, 2011)

He is so cute! I think he looks male!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

OK the normal grey is male, female normal greys don't get the bright yellow face. He may not be singing or anything because he's still in a relatively new environment. It can take some tiels months to feel comfortable enough to sing. You just have to be patient. As for the other, do you know what her parents were? Any shot of her tail feathers would also be helpful.


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## lisaowens (Oct 17, 2011)

i have two females and 1 male. my females are really quiet and my male he does sang and tweet and makes noise but he does not do it all the time he does it mainly to get my attention. just because your male stopped making noise does not mean it isn't a boy with a head that yellow i am pretty sure it is. it took tweety a while to get comfortable and start singing just give him time. my mom has two males and they seem to always be loud i think it is because they are two males. this is tweety


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## Jay (Sep 12, 2011)

> I'm not good at sexing tiels. I'm sure others can help- but just wanted to say your tiels are beautiful.


Thank you very much! 



> He is so cute! I think he looks male!


I do too 



> OK the normal grey is male, female normal greys don't get the bright yellow face.


Excellent thank you!



> He may not be singing or anything because he's still in a relatively new environment. It can take some tiels months to feel comfortable enough to sing. You just have to be patient.


OK thank you i think I've had him about 2 months now?? he does appear to be getting more comfy so i will wait it out 



> As for the other, do you know what her parents were? Any shot of her tail feathers would also be helpful.


I have no idea what her parents were as i got her from a pet shop but i know for a fact she is a fallow tiel (red eyes) She has actually managed to destroy her tail feathers (she is a really clumsy flier haha) but i do have a couple which i've saved when they just fell out

Heres a picture of one:



















Sorry about the quality its the best i could do 

Edit:



> i have two females and 1 male. my females are really quiet and my male he does sang and tweet and makes noise but he does not do it all the time he does it mainly to get my attention. just because your male stopped making noise does not mean it isn't a boy with a head that yellow i am pretty sure it is. it took tweety a while to get comfortable and start singing just give him time. my mom has two males and they seem to always be loud i think it is because they are two males. this is tweety


My "female" is quiet too she only ever makes a noise if the male is taken away from her or if the male goes down for food she calls then but its always the same sound.

tweety is gorgeous!!! 

Do you think the fact he is with a female (i think?) that would cause him to quiet down abit?

Thanks all


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## jeme (Jan 19, 2010)

Reggie is definitely male.

Based on those tail feathers, so is Fred! (unless there is barring that I can't see due to picture quality).


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

He's the classic adult normal grey male - there's no doubt at all about his sex. It can take a couple of months for a bird to really settle into a new home so he might not be ready to put on a show yet. 

I'm not sure about your "female". Does she have any tail feathers with bars on them? If no, then she is a he. If yes, and this is an adult bird, she's a girl. 

This picture from http://www.cockatiel.org/mutations/fallow.html clearly shows tail bars:










There are also some fallow pictures at http://www.tieltreasures.com/gallery.htm toward the bottom of the page showing both male and female. The pictures are kind of small, but it's possible to see tail bars on the female. This page also says that males are darker than females, but your bird's color seems to be right in between.


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## lisaowens (Oct 17, 2011)

Jay said:


> Thank you very much!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


my three don't like each other to invade their space but they do like the company as long as they have their own space. sparkles and tweety are in a room together angel is in the living room when it is time for my lovie to join everyone i plan on putting her cage in the living room. in separate cages of coarse but they will have the company of each other. tweety loves getting out when he wants to if i want him to come out and he doesn't he will refuse or bite me. here lately he has really wanted out a lot more i think he has been home for about a month or a little longer. i got all my tiels from the same breeder. angel and sparkles are sisters tweety has different parents his dad is white face and mom is cinnamon. my girls parents were dad pied mom lutino. as far as your male being quite because of your other bird i don't know for sure but here that seems to be the case tweety makes noise but nothing like my mom's two males. mine makes noise when he wants my attention


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## Jay (Sep 12, 2011)

> Reggie is definitely male.
> 
> Based on those tail feathers, so is Fred! (unless there is barring that I can't see due to picture quality)


Wow really!? thats a shock I've always thought he was a she haha!

she has never had markings on her tail its always been yellow and normal. She was only 2 months when i got her and she hasn't molted yet. Does that mean shes a he then?!



> I'm not sure about your "female". Does she have any tail feathers with bars on them? If no, then she is a he. If yes, and this is an adult bird, she's a girl.


Shocked! I've never seen bars on her tail no marks what so ever in fact! I'm curtain she/he is young (about 6 months) and she/he has not molted yet since i've had her (3/4 months now)



> There are also some fallow pictures at http://www.tieltreasures.com/gallery.htm toward the bottom of the page showing both male and female. The pictures are kind of small, but it's possible to see tail bars on the female. This page also says that males are darker than females, but your bird's color seems to be right in between.


Indeed i will do some better pictures....



> my three don't like each other to invade their space but they do like the company as long as they have their own space. sparkles and tweety are in a room together angel is in the living room when it is time for my lovie to join everyone i plan on putting her cage in the living room. in separate cages of coarse but they will have the company of each other. tweety loves getting out when he wants to if i want him to come out and he doesn't he will refuse or bite me. here lately he has really wanted out a lot more i think he has been home for about a month or a little longer. i got all my tiels from the same breeder. angel and sparkles are sisters tweety has different parents his dad is white face and mom is cinnamon. my girls parents were dad pied mom lutino. as far as your male being quite because of your other bird i don't know for sure but here that seems to be the case tweety makes noise but nothing like my mom's two males. mine makes noise when he wants my attention
> __________________


Interesting! Both of mine are fairly quiet really... thats why i always assumed "fred" was a female and the male was just well... quiet haha

heres a 12.2 mega pixel image of that feather  i also took some more of her and her tail features (whats left of them haha)









































































Shes lovely 










Any idea?

Edit: 

I just remembered i have some images of when i pretty much just got her/him

this shows the tail feathers really well and she was only 3 months or so here


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I'm not sure because I've never worked with fallow in person, but those tail feathers scream male. Females have barred tail feathers that be seen even on a lutino. So unless there are different rules for fallow I would say male. And it can take a tiel up to six months to settle in, even longer in some cases depending on their background. Some are just more shy than others. I have a male who I've had for 4 months and he has yet to sing, just doesn't feel the need. Pretty sure he thinks the others do enough of it for him!


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## Jay (Sep 12, 2011)

roxy culver said:


> I'm not sure because I've never worked with fallow in person, but those tail feathers scream male. Females have barred tail feathers that be seen even on a lutino. So unless there are different rules for fallow I would say male. And it can take a tiel up to six months to settle in, even longer in some cases depending on their background. Some are just more shy than others. I have a male who I've had for 4 months and he has yet to sing, just doesn't feel the need. Pretty sure he thinks the others do enough of it for him!


Thats good then i will give him time  

When females are said to be muted does that mean they are 100% silent? as fred isn't silent but hes not loud either. she/he is curtainly louder then reggie but then its mainly her/him calling reggie anyway haha

Also... with a fallow are they fluffy feathered? my grey has nice silky feathers but freds seem very fluffy, im guessing this is her/his down feathers? will she feel more like reggie when she molts?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Are you sure Fred is actually fallow? She looked like it in the first picture but the picture was underexposed and that might be the reason. She looks like a lutino in the new pictures and if that's her true mutation that changes things. Female lutinos have wing spots and bars like all females, but it's yellow on white and the markings can be very difficult to see. With females that don't have much contrast between their white and yellow tones, it can be downright impossible. Both fallows and lutinos have red eyes. Fred might be a girl after all. 

If Fred is actually lutino and you know what color her parents were, we may be able to settle the issue right now. A lutino mother is required to produce a lutino male. So if Fred's mother was not lutino Fred has to be a girl.

I've noticed that birds with a lot of grey feel silky while birds that are all or mostly yellow/white feel fluffy. It looks like the feel of the feathers might be related to the presence or absence of melanin.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*Wow really!? thats a shock I've always thought he was a she haha!

she has never had markings on her tail its always been yellow and normal. She was only 2 months when i got her and she hasn't molted yet. Does that mean shes a he then?!*
===============================

the pix's you posted of the tail feather are pied feathers (solid yellow no barring) which would make her a lutino pied.

she is *not* a fallow. Possibly a cinnamon lutino or cinnamon lutino pied.


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## Jay (Sep 12, 2011)

> Are you sure Fred is actually fallow? She looked like it in the first picture but the picture was underexposed and that might be the reason. She looks like a lutino in the new pictures and if that's her true mutation that changes things. Female lutinos have wing spots and bars like all females, but it's yellow on white and the markings can be very difficult to see. With females that don't have much contrast between their white and yellow tones, it can be downright impossible. Both fallows and lutinos have red eyes. Fred might be a girl after all.
> 
> If Fred is actually lutino and you know what color her parents were, we may be able to settle the issue right now. A lutino mother is required to produce a lutino male. So if Fred's mother was not lutino Fred has to be a girl.


I'm not 100% sure no i just thought she was given her pink beak, feet and red eyes. I thought fallows were the only ones which had red eyes. I wasn't aware thet lutino's had red eyes too! she could very well be lutino??

Unfortunately i don't think i will ever know what her parents were the shop i got her from don't even deal with the same breeder anymore 

tricky one... 



> I've noticed that birds with a lot of grey feel silky while birds that are all or mostly yellow/white feel fluffy. It looks like the feel of the feathers might be related to the presence or absence of melanin.


haha thats interesting! she will always be such a fluff ball then? hehe 

I often wonder if these two mated (if fred is indeed a girl) what would come from the 2 mating, grey + lutino/fallow whatever she is haha could be interesting!



> the pix's you posted of the tail feather are pied feathers (solid yellow no barring) which would make her a lutino pied.
> 
> she is not a fallow. Possibly a cinnamon lutino or cinnamon lutino pied.


She curtainly is solid yellow on her tail feathers, always has been! 










This cinnamon lutino looks just like her, specially in the face! I think your right!

God is my face red!


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## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

I think I read somewhere about someone using black light to see if there were any spots/markings on lutinos. I could be wrong.. but for some reason it sticks in my head. Maybe even holding her up to sunlight or a really bright light behind her will show you if there are markings?


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

there are yellow long spots on the wings, which are pied related wingspots rather than individual spots on each feather,.... just one looooong wing spot on the wings.


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

Both your birds are beautiful 

If it helps at all I attached some pics of my female cinnamon lutino as I know there arent many good pics of this mutation on the internet, you can see her flights look dirty and under different lighting the cinnamon wash can look darker or lighter lol Though Aero is not a pied like Fred.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> I often wonder if these two mated (if fred is indeed a girl) what would come from the 2 mating, grey + lutino/fallow whatever she is haha could be interesting!


There's a cockatiel genetics calculator at http://www.kirstenmunson.com/cockatiels/blue.html which lets you see the outcome of different combinations. If we go with cinnamon lutino pied for the hen and grey split whiteface for the male (because he looks like he might have this split) then this is what happens:


Motheried Cinnamon Lutino
Father:Grey Split To Whiteface

male offspring:
50% Grey Split To Pied Whiteface {X2: Cinnamon Lutino}
50% Grey Split To Pied {X2: Cinnamon Lutino}

female offspring:
50% Grey Split To Pied Whiteface
50% Grey Split To Pied


All those nice mutation genes and all you get are grey babies! But the parent birds could be hiding some splits that would change the results. If your male is split to cinnamon and/or lutino you could get babies of both sexes in the applicable color. I don't see any sign of a pied split or pearl split, but if he had one of these genes you could get pearl females and/or pied chicks of both sexes. If the hen is split whiteface you could get whiteface babies.


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## Jay (Sep 12, 2011)

> I think I read somewhere about someone using black light to see if there were any spots/markings on lutinos. I could be wrong.. but for some reason it sticks in my head. Maybe even holding her up to sunlight or a really bright light behind her will show you if there are markings?


Interesting! I may try that though i don't have any UV light..



> there are yellow long spots on the wings, which are pied related wingspots rather than individual spots on each feather,.... just one looooong wing spot on the wings.


So shes a cinemon lutino pied? any idea if shes a she? haha



> Both your birds are beautiful


Thank you!!!!



> If it helps at all I attached some pics of my female cinnamon lutino as I know there arent many good pics of this mutation on the internet, you can see her flights look dirty and under different lighting the cinnamon wash can look darker or lighter lol Though Aero is not a pied like Fred.


Thank you i appreshaite that your right about the pics of cinnamon lutino's i can't find many at all haha 

your bird looks identical to my little fred... 



> There's a cockatiel genetics calculator at http://www.kirstenmunson.com/cockatiels/blue.html which lets you see the outcome of different combinations. If we go with cinnamon lutino pied for the hen and grey split whiteface for the male (because he looks like he might have this split) then this is what happens:


Actually interesting you mention that reggie does actually have yellow in his white parts of his wings he also has pink feet so im not sure if hes a genuine original grey?? he also has a little yellow on the top of his tail feathers??



> All those nice mutation genes and all you get are grey babies! But the parent birds could be hiding some splits that would change the results. If your male is split to cinnamon and/or lutino you could get babies of both sexes in the applicable color. I don't see any sign of a pied split or pearl split, but if he had one of these genes you could get pearl females and/or pied chicks of both sexes. If the hen is split whiteface you could get whiteface babies.


Oh my god the magic word! I LOVE whitefaced cockatiels!!!!!! soooo much i want one i want one!!!!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> Actually interesting you mention that reggie does actually have yellow in his white parts of his wings he also has pink feet so im not sure if hes a genuine original grey?? he also has a little yellow on the top of his tail feathers??


Pink toe nails in a normal grey is an indication of being split to pied. So you could possibly get some pied babies from this pairing. Since Fred is a cinnamon lutino pied its not possibly (apparently lol) to get gender visually as all her tail feathers are that bright yellow pied color. You're going to have to watch for behavior although if I remember correctly most cinnamon lutinos are female.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> if I remember correctly most cinnamon lutinos are female.


It's a double sex-linked mutation so it's much easier to get females. 



> reggie does actually have yellow in his white parts of his wings


This is normal. Some birds have this and some don't, but it doesn't signify anything as far as I know.



> he also has pink feet so im not sure if hes a genuine original grey??


The lighting in the pictures isn't the greatest but I think his feet look the same as my normal grey males. Pinkish with grey overtones is normal.



> he also has a little yellow on the top of his tail feathers??


Now this might mean something. Do you have any pictures?


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## Jay (Sep 12, 2011)

> Pink toe nails in a normal grey is an indication of being split to pied. So you could possibly get some pied babies from this pairing.


Hes got pinkish feet but not nails his nails are black



> Since Fred is a cinnamon lutino pied its not possibly (apparently lol) to get gender visually as all her tail feathers are that bright yellow pied color. You're going to have to watch for behavior although if I remember correctly most cinnamon lutinos are female.


Well me and my girl friend have males hers is a genuine 100% grey original male. Fred is so much more laid back, less nibbly and far quieter then her male



> The lighting in the pictures isn't the greatest but I think his feet look the same as my normal grey males. Pinkish with grey overtones is normal.


Il do another picture in this post



> Now this might mean something. Do you have any pictures?












The pictures don't show it very well but the white on his feather are yellow 










again not a great pic but these top feathers are yellow also the feathers above his toes are yellowish too?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

In looking at his feet the markings on his back and his tail he was probably a pearl when a baby.


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## Jay (Sep 12, 2011)

srtiels said:


> In looking at his feet the markings on his back and his tail he was probably a pearl when a baby.


wow really? haha so what does that make him?

its annoying the pictures dont show it but his white parts on his wings are actually really really yellow just like the color yellow seen on fred!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

He would still be a pearl, and if he became a daddy all his daughters would be pearl. If his mate was pearl then all the sons would be pearl too. It's one of those pesky sex-linked mutations.


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## Dekey (Apr 21, 2011)

im good with greys so definately male grey right there


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## Jay (Sep 12, 2011)

tielfan said:


> He would still be a pearl, and if he became a daddy all his daughters would be pearl. If his mate was pearl then all the sons would be pearl too. It's one of those pesky sex-linked mutations.


so hes a pearl but.. grey? haha cockatiel mutations are confusing

i have a gut feeling that fred is female, im so used to male cockatiels she acts so differant to them so i think she is a she? 

shes a cinemmon lutino pied?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*so hes a pearl but.. grey? haha cockatiel mutations are confusing*
---------------------------------------------

Yes...pearl males will molt out their pearls and later appear to be grey. Even though their pearls are gone they are still genetically a pearl mutation. Whereas female pearls will retain their markings for life.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

For example, this is my pearl male Fuzzy. As a baby he had pearls but as an adult he does not because male pearls don't retain their pearling like a female does.


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## Jay (Sep 12, 2011)

Wow thats really cool! i never knew "greys" could be pearls!

thanks everyone this has been very insightful!


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