# I am troubled by what i think I am seeing



## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

I don't have the proper tools to candle any eggs . However I tried using a LED flash light in a dimly lit room . the biggest problem was the light wasn't directed straight at the eggshells and no where else's since the lens was wider than the eggs.

What I did see was very pronounced air sacks on the first 3 eggs and no real translucency or veins under them. However even either the poor light source on the number 4 egg i thought i did see a vein and hardly any air sack.

All the air sacks where on the large ends of the eggs and almost as large as the end of the egg.

First is this as bad sounding to you as me for the first 3 eggs and how would any of yousuggest I do a better job of candling them with the light sources I have and stuff around the house.

BTW the no.1 egg was laid July 22, No,2--late July 23, No. 3 late July 25 and No. 4 -- late July 27. It was the evening of Aug. 4 when I tried the candling.

Could it be that either my hen is too young( about 2 years +) and or my Male is too old
( about 8 years +) or both? i say this since I have changed everything almost to do with the laying from last 2 times and still it doesn't look to good IMHO. But I am still hoping the real problwm is I am too anxious.

BUDDY


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## xxxSpikexxx (Jul 30, 2007)

I though 8 was a bit old to breed a tiel, Iam not a breeder though. could you rest an egg in a cd hole and shine a light from behind? Iam not sure they would even show anything yet as they are still fairly new eggs. Hopefully someone who breeds will be on soon.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

here are a couple websites that tell you how to make a home made egg candler using a flash light and a few things from around the house 

http://www.ehow.com/how_6304_make-egg-candler.html

I can't find the other one but it was to use a Clay flower pot, Sit the Flash light on its end with the light facing up, Sit the Flower pot over top of it and lay the egg on the hole of the flower pot to candle the egg


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

_*the biggest problem was the light wasn't directed straight at the eggshells and no where else's since the lens was wider than the eggs.*_
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If a flashlight is too big you may have to cup your hand around the lens to focus the beam smaller. Always candle at the air cell end only. And not for very long if the lens gets hot because it can do damage/injury to the embyri. Never can on the side, for risk of heating/burning a blood vein.


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*second try results*

I used an inverted faucet freeze cover over a handled flashlight . it had a perfect opening size and the cover fit nicely over the flashligt lens. also i only tried 3 of the 4 eggs since momma hadseperted one and it wasvery close to her. 
egg no. 3+4 showed a lot more yoke and while the light wasn't as intense as i woold have liked i could see veins so i guess they are viable. egg no. 2 when seated on the air sack section however didn't allow any light to transverse the egg or it's contents atall the egg appeared dark as before.

have any of youuseen this? cOULD IT BE THAT THE EMBRYO IS SO DEVLOPED THATTHE SHELLIS PACKED TO FIRMLY AND THE LIGHTRAYS CAN'T ILLUMINATE THE NORMAL FLUID FILLED EGG? Or am I just wishin to hard/

Also since no. 2 is like that and I assume No. 1 Might be also but it was brought close to momma could it be that she knows something is close? It could only be 4 days away if all wnebt well.

BUDDY


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

THe big question on these darker eggs was there any air cells at all? If so the more dense filled eggs may be due to hatch. If not then humidity may have been to high which could cause smothering and drowning in the shell.

If the hen had one separated it may be close to hatch. They will do this for the egg to cool down to stimulate the baby to move and turn in the shell. The day before pip the head is towards the bottom og the egg...thus they have to turn and head to the top to get into position to pip.


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*The answers are YES*

Suzanne the answer to the air sack being there is a definet YES! In fact when i first tried all I Could see on 3 of the eggs where very pronounced empty air sacks and very dark dense eggs. Then When i checked back the number 1 egg was over by the hen sitting off to the side and the other 3 where clustered and the male had just left the box. 

I assumed he had been with one group and she another but when ever i look she is not on the eggs now but to the side of them. still she all but refuses to leave them even when I reach inside to examine them I actually am a bit apprehensive since if that where the male I'd have bandages on my hand. LOL

However when i did the second more correct candling I did see more yellow yoke and veins on no. 3 and 4 but the light wasn't strong enough to really illuminate them like some pictures I See and I even dimed the lights in the room to focus more on the eggs.

I am feeling a bit better now but we shall see, as I said the earliest hatch date may be Aug 9 which is just 4 days away so if developing well i would suspect there is a fairly well devloped embryo inside some eggs. I don't guess they grow too much more in the last 4 days even though as I remember embryonic development it graduates exponentially so the biggest growth is the last few days.

Also when the DIS occured the hen seemed to loose interest in them almost entirely . This time she very seldom even comes out to eat and void.and then only when the male swaps out with her and sometimes they both are in the box for long periods. SO I am hopeful and fearful at the same time.

BTW is my male getting too old to breed 8 years old. he sure doesn't know it himself. he started strutting as soon as we introduced this new hen to him and is so protective he scares me. But is he fertile enough due to his age? I thought they lived to be 30 or so and 8 is only 1/4 of that.

BUDDY


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

the age limit on when to stop breeding isn't set in stone 

I tried looking it up many times Some people say not to let them breed after 4 Some say let them breed until they stop on their own etc. 


An Idea for a better light source for your candling if you have a Lamp with a removable lamp shade that will probably do the trick if it'll fit under what ever your putting your flashlight under and I'd use a 60watt bulb if you have one handy.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

A male can fetilize til the day he dies. My friend lost a 28 yr old male not long ago. He was a Daddy at 27, and the hen was 14.


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*OK! My fears or over . For now.LOL*

Today the 8Th just 17 days from it's laying the Number 1 egg is hatched. But either I don't remeber newly hatched chicks too well or it is a bit tiny? That was one of the ones that when candled ( poorly) looked solidly dark with a large air sack,now if that is any indication No.2 may hatch tommorrow.

Also No.3 looked almost as dark and I could see some vague veins in No. 4.

We are calling this one Deuce ( Marie's favorite XSaint Running back LOL)Hopefully we may be scrambling for more names and patients to hand feed them?

BTW I guess * years old isn't too old to be a Daddy and he seemed very attentive as brooder like he was when he was 4 . He took better care of the chicks from the previus hen then she did and she was no slacker.

The Chick had scrapes on it's beak when I looked at 6am this morning and Drago went straight to the Multi bread and Greens as soon as I got him to leave the Box to take these PIXS ( which I hope you can see since the flash bounced off the box so much)

I'll try to keep y'all posted. 
BUDDYD


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

aww congrats 

the size looks about right 

the lil' wet one on the right had just been born right before i took this pic


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*Not sure if I am hopeful or wishing*

When i looked in today I first saw sweetie all fluffed up waddling over Deuce and the other eggs. When when I looked another time Deuce was trying to tuck under sweeties wing and the other 3 eggs where exposed but egg No. 2 was seperated as Deuce's No, 1 egg was the other day.

So while there was less than 48 hrs between layings tommorrow would be about 48 hrs and No, 2 is in that cooling position as just before Deuce hatched.

So maybe I'm just wishing too hard or MAYBE Trey is on the way? LMAO

But I'll check in the morning.

BTW you aught to her Drago singing and talking to the chick and it's Momma in the nest box. He did a lot of that before but never while in the box.

He also looked at me this morning until I added some greens and fresh multi bread pieces then he gobbled them up and went straight to the box. 

Question what are good things to feed FEEDING Parents of very newly born chicks? I have used what I mentioned along with fresh seed and I used to add Millet Sprays but I am out of them right now. I even dipped the bread pieces in the Hand feeding mixture to add some more softness. But what do the rest of you use till I can pull them>

Also I plan to pull them and the box but where do I house any chicks and if I put a basket of some kind in the cage what stops those Horny parents form laying in it? I am trying to prevent any reoccurring of the PLUCKING episode when they tried to double clutch before UNO was weaned?

BuddyD


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

the basket will be their new nest box , don't pull out the nest box until the babies are coming out on their own and not using it 

I feed my birds the same things all year long, Pellets, Veggies, Birdy bread, Big leafy greens some seed , and then when ever I find a new recipe to make for them They get that too 

of course they don't get the veggies, birdie bread, leafy greens all in the same day 

we alternate what they get , but they do get their pellets and seed daily


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*Tray has arrived*

Some where withn the last 2-3 hours Tray was hatched. I assume it has been a while since Tray is as fluffy as Deuce and almost as active or maybe that is deuce (no way to tell now.LOL) But I was passing the utility room and Uno started calling so much I had to look. When I did Sweetie was out the box and down on the cage floor looking at mea sif to say where is the greens. So I got Drago to exit the box and peaked. Sure enough there was a freshly opened egg with the No. 2 on it.

That make 2 that where hatched in less then 18 days and both, seemed to be strongenough to open the eggs as if they where soft boild eggs opened witha knife. ( the Air sackend was cleved cleanly in two complete pieces. No chipping or splitting just as if you took the top off a jar. They both are trying to crawl allover also. 

So far so good. Now I best get ready to learn to hand feed in shifts.

BTW Marie isn' t too anxious to see them on their own she keeps asking me what color are they? When i tellher they are both full of Yellow down she ask no differece? or That aren't Naked are they ? ( BYW whta are the odds of color variations with Dargo a former Gray split to piedor pearl and Sweetie a Cinnamon split to pearl? Isn't there a probable mix when you know the parents?)I have to tell her that was because poor UNO was taking up NEST space and Sweetie and Drago had more on the way and where trying to get him to leave at 2 weeks. LMAO

I fully intend to watch this clucth much closer.

BUDDY


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Tray is as fluffy as Deuce and almost as active or maybe that is deuce (no way to tell now.


Tiel chicks grow VERY rapidly, and it should be easy to tell them apart by size. If you can't, then maybe they aren't being fed or are having some kind of problem. Please check on this ASAP.


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## BuddyD (Jun 4, 2009)

*I understand you did you see the OICS and hear the dates*

Tielfan I realize they grow very rapid and can be out the nest in 2-3 weeks. However I am speaking about 2 chicks that are less then 24 hrs. apart . I am not even speaking about the usual 48 hr spread but these 2 eggs where LAID less then that aprt and No. 1 hatched in the early hrs of yesterday morning and No. 2 hatched somewhere between 3 -5 this afternoon.

Even with a head start No.2 is less than 24 hours more mature the No.1.

I have never seen that little of a difference and IMHO I'd be amazed if even 24 hrs showed and appreciable difference and I am watching them Hourly so fear not.

BuddyD


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Chicks born close together can be hard to tell apart. I thought the age difference was more than that.


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