# wing clipping??



## billy88 (Nov 30, 2010)

should i get my cockatiels wings clipped. ive been thinking about it cus i tink it may well be easier to train an get him to trust me more. plus he isnt a very good flyer an doesnt seem to be able to land anywer apart from the curtains. i no every bird is different but would like your opinions on wa u think i shud do an wa u have done with your tiels. i really want him to trust me. some days his has been exellent an i have had him on my shoulder an my lap but most days he doesnt want to come to me. i think i just gta e patient as ive only had him for just ova 2mnths. if i was to get his wings clipped also how much would it cost about. 

all advice welcome


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

I clipped my birds wings myself and my bf and i ended bonded with lucky really quickly
within days
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/469761/0002_cockatiel_talk_dot_com_how_to_clip_a_birds_wings/
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/trimming-a-cockatiels-wing-feathers.html
http://www.animalliberationfront.co...Clipping Cockatiel Wings, Nails and Beaks.htm
These tells you how to do it yourself but if your not certain go to your vet


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## xxxSpikexxx (Jul 30, 2007)

Spike is clipped  He does not mind at all, he is very tame and if he were not clipped I would have problems with him flying after me and we have a puppy in the house. I feel it keeps him safe from flying into things or out of doors. 
People may say it is not natural to have a bird that can not fly but they way we keep birds in general or even dogs for that matter is not natural. 
At the parrot club I go to a we heard a terrible story of how a tiel flew into a pot of gravy on the stove. The owners thought that it was ok to cook since the tiel was a few rooms away. He lived but he is badly scarred for life  
It is everyones choice what they want to do but I am pro clipping. 
I love the feeling of a bird flying to you and the photos you can get but in my situation it is just not safe for my birds


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Yes, I think all pet birds should having their wings clipped for their own safety in the home UNLESS like a prime example that I have, one of my tiels is missing a foot. The breeder I got her from clipped her wings way too short and she couldn't get too much exercise. I have now let them grow out, its taken a while but they are now starting to grow out and she is now getting alot more exercise in the rest of her body where she cant climb the cages like the others can.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

Also when they get scared flying around at top speeds then crashing into either a wall or window. When i got a new rug they got scared and lucky went into a window  which from then on i had to clip them both.


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## birdlover4life (Mar 6, 2010)

I believe in wing clipping, even if it is a light clip (just the primary flight feathers). I just feel I would be so guilty if Finn ever got away and flew far with full wings. It just makes me feel better that he is safer. Finn can still fly now that his wings are growing back.


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## billy88 (Nov 30, 2010)

thanks for the replys guys. helped me make my mind up. am guna book him in with vet and get his wings clipped. QUESTION? get them clipped so cnt fly at all or so he can fly a little bit.


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## LittleGems (Jan 12, 2011)

I much prefer allowing a bird full flight, the only birds of mine that are clipped are new arrivals that came to me already clipped (once they molt they will be fully flighted as well)


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

billy88 said:


> thanks for the replys guys. helped me make my mind up. am guna book him in with vet and get his wings clipped. QUESTION? get them clipped so cnt fly at all or so he can fly a little bit.


I say give him some flight so he is happy


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## Belinda (Oct 9, 2010)

I had Arnie's wings clipped by the breeder and she did a one wing clip far too short. I ended up getting imping (feather extensions) on that wing and she became fully flighted. Since she was already bonded to us I found a complete change in her personality. She became a lot more adventurous and independent and wouldn't scream for us all the time. I haven't had any problems with her crashing into stuff (yet) - she's pretty coordinated with her flying now and I think she feels a lot more secure being fully flighted so she doesn't freak out often. Also I was told by the vet that even birds with clipped wings can get height with a wind about and if they find themselves outside they can still make long distances and have less control over where they end up. At least if they have some flight they are able to land somewhere safe (fly down onto someone's shoulder and greater chance of being found) and get away from dogs or cats. 
I can see the advantages in getting your tiel's wings clipped if they are naughty or fly away from you all the time but I think with full flight tiels are much more coordinated and it gives them a sense of wellbeing. I would suggest a light clip so he still has a sense of self but you are able to get him down on your level more and bond with him. If you haven't clipped before I would get the vet to show you.


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## Belinda (Oct 9, 2010)

I had Arnie's wings clipped by the breeder and she did a one wing clip far too short. I ended up getting imping (feather extensions) on that wing and she became fully flighted. Since she was already bonded to us I found a complete change in her personality. She became a lot more adventurous and independent and wouldn't scream for us all the time. I haven't had any problems with her crashing into stuff (yet) - she's pretty coordinated with her flying now and I think she feels a lot more secure being fully flighted so she doesn't freak out often. Also I was told by the vet that even birds with clipped wings can get height with a wind about and if they find themselves outside they can still make long distances and have less control over where they end up. At least if they have some flight they are able to land somewhere safe (fly down onto someone's shoulder and greater chance of being found) and get away from dogs or cats. 
I can see the advantages in getting your tiel's wings clipped if they are naughty or fly away from you all the time but I think with full flight tiels are much more coordinated and it gives them a sense of wellbeing. I would suggest a light clip so he still has a sense of self but you are able to get him down on your level more and bond with him. If you haven't clipped before I would get the vet to show you.


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## billy88 (Nov 30, 2010)

hi guys advice has been gr8. only drama is am in the forces an live in germany and on calling the vet to get casper clipped i learnt that its forbidden over here to clip there wings. i would do it myself but i aint done it before an certainly aint got the balls to do after lookin it up on net or anything cus i wud be devastated if i clipped a blood feather or something. looks like am guna have to wait out until i drive back to the UK and get him done ova there. in the mean tym am guna make him a room in my celler to fly about in with numerous perches and that so he can get used to flying cus wen he comes out in my living room he just flies into the curtains. he is only 5 mnths old according to the pet shop so i think a bit of practise in the room in the celler he shud be ok


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## Amber77 (Jan 9, 2011)

Hi Billy 

yes it is correct in Germany clipping is forbidden and I think it´s good for the birds. 
They need to fly for they health. 
All my bird and I have 10 of them are not clipped. 
I never had problems with crashes. 
The got their own room in my home and they can fly all over the day. 
It is amazing to see them flying. 
Look at these pictures.
http://www.nymphicus.de/nymphensittich_flugbilder.html


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## billy88 (Nov 30, 2010)

i think i will be happy once ive sorted out the room in the celler. its no bigger than my living room in fact about half but its his to do what he wants for a hour or so a day. amber i love ur profile pik it looks just like my casper.


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## Amber77 (Jan 9, 2011)

Hi Billy 
that is my Kenai 
he is a male white face


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## billy88 (Nov 30, 2010)

he is lovely. must put some piks up of casper he looks just like kenai


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## Amber77 (Jan 9, 2011)

good idea 
upload here 
http://www.talkcockatiels.com/forumdisplay.php?f=10


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## clawnz (May 28, 2009)

Argue all you like about the benefits of non flighted birds. 

But keep in mind the powerful arguments for flight. A birds health and physical well being.
It is well documented how a birds repertory system works and flight is a very important part of that. Exercise? 5mins of flight is far greater than any other exercise.
I did have one idiot who said get your bird on your hand, clamp it's feet and move hand up and down to excise your bird.

If a bird is panicking, try to fix what is making it panic, not stop it from flying.

And one of the biggest causes of inability to think on the wing is clipping at an early age to train a bird. Blame this on the breeders who want to quickly train a young bird.

Please can I ask all those who think they are doing the right thing. To go to Steve Heartmans artical, and then tell me how clipping has any thing to do with what is good for the bird? Clipping is a human convenience only.

Yes there will always be some do need to be kept clipped, this if you research, is mainly due to the fact that they were clipped when very young and cannot now make the brain connection to function like a normal bird. 
QUOTE: They fly straight into things. Oh! sure they can still fly, but not think on the wing to land safely. They are mentally retarded.

A night fright is a different kettle of fish and it does not make any difference where they are flighted or not. They will crash into things. This is back to Panic flight. If you try to pick them up at that stage you will find they bite very hard! Even the tame ones, as as far as they are concerned it is a life or death situation.

I also quote, if your clipped bird escapes it may very well die. Get eaten by a cat, Hawk or Gull. The figures at the rescue show that most of the escapee's we get back are flighted not clipped. So where do the clipped ones end up? Dinner because they could not escape from danger.
And please remember a small bird clipped can still fly. And they do escape just as often as non clipped birds, judging by the numbers of lost birds listed on our local POTN pages.

If the bird has always been clipped it may well be better to keep it clipped as it is a handicapped bird and could hurt it's self

I am glad to say, the practice of clipping is not as popular as it used to be.

I know I rub some up the wrong way about this, but only thorough education and facts are we going to see an end to this practice. It has been noted over the last few years that the practice is in decline.

Here is a link to a article http://forums.avianavenue.com/airport/32375-health-benefits-flight-benefits-clipping.html

And http://www.theparrotuniversity.com/flight.php


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## birdlover4life (Mar 6, 2010)

Well, I am sure some birds can fly clipped, but mine is not one of them. He can safely land and not fly upwards. I know people have different views but I feel better with his wings cut.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

It really up to the owner if they want to clip or not
I clipped my birds but they still have that flight and my birds are happy enough, they like playing on the floor and they are happy.
Dobby who didnt have a flight at all but where he wanted to be he always get there, managed all the time to get on top of the curtain pole lol
I didn't agree in wing clipping at first but when i did i never regret it and i will continue on clipping, lucky does not like anything new at all which is why i had to re clip.
Iv herd many of flying away out doors (Tweety pie flew away) and where people are cooking, i don't want to feel that pain as it broke my heart with tweety pie flying away.


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## clawnz (May 28, 2009)

Here are a few details from the rescue for last year.
We had more than 7 flighted birds fly to us at the rescue, for food we guess and because of the noise. 5 of these we caught. None were clipped.
We only had 2 clipped birds in for the same period. Where are the others? Yes there were lost clipped birds out there.
I am not sure on the total count of birds handed in, but in access of 20.

This is from the data for last year. and is correct, not "Here Say".

I need to quantify my use of the word Handicapped. 
Quote: Those that are physically disabled and or are mentally retarded. 
So you might as well say that a bird that has not been allowed to develop correctly before clipping will be mentally retarded. And this is for life. The brain was never allowed to develop the connections to fly. Yes sure it can fly, into walls windows. They generally fly in a straight line, cannot turn or change direction. These are the birds that need to be kept clipped.
Clipping to train is not the right way to bond with your pet bird.


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## stormdream (Jan 15, 2011)

My family has gone back and forth on the clipping issue for as long as we've had birds. We started out with clipping, then started letting them grow out...when I was 10 we had a tragic accident with a budgie and we were consistent clippers after that.  

Last year at work, I found a fully flighted cockatiel huddled under an SUV. The bird was starving and had gotten the stuffing beaten out of him by wild birds. He would not have made it another night and he was too weak to fly when I caught him, but after he got some food into him he promptly tried to flutter around my bathroom -- he was an excellent flier. I got him in to see the bird vet the next day, who immediately clipped him and said cockatiels are such strong fliers, he could have come from very, very far away. We never did find his owner. 

Dexter now lives with my parents and has fully recovered physically, but mentally...that is another story. I'm pretty sure he has some form of PTSD. 
So I plan on keeping Juno clipped. She can glide. At times I go back and forth on it ("she's a bird...she should fly"), but after seeing what happened to fully flighted Dexter and my poor little keet up close and personal, I think it is the best decision for our situation.


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## olive juice (Mar 30, 2009)

I am not pro-clipped or pro-flighted either way.

I think each bird is unique and different, and each situation surrounding each bird is unique as well.

What's right for one bird may not be right for another. My first 'tiel was almost always clipped. He didn't like to fly as it was, so even when he was fully flighted he tended to stay put (glued to my side) but on the occasions he DID get spooked and fly, it terrified him and almost always resulted in a crash because he never got a hang of landing. I've seen him crash into walls, windows, doors, the floor...and it was scary and dangerous. I had no problems clipping him.

However, my second 'tiel is a very strong flier and you can tell he really delights in flying. He rarely makes me nervous when he takes flight because he's so sure of himself and can land really well, even on moving targets (like the top of my head, grumble). I only clipped him once as a training device and haven't needed to (or wanted to) since.

My newest bird, well, it remains to be seen. It really does depend on his temperament, flying ability, confidence, and coordination. I'd rather clip a bird than risk it getting seriously hurt.

Some people have the luxury of a bird room or aviary or other place where a bird can fly safely, but a lot of people don't. Some birds have a great attitude when they can fly, and some have a better attitude when they're clipped. Some people own other pets that could harm their bird and so the ability to fly away is a must...while some people decide to clip for the same reason, that their other pets are kept in a different room that they don't want their bird to easily have access to. We all need to make choices for our pets and at the end of the day, we do what we feel is best for our birds. That's all we can do.


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## Belinda (Oct 9, 2010)

Do you think Dexter would have faired any better if he were clipped? If he were clipped you may not have found him alive at all because he wouldn't have been able to escape from his attackers. If he was that stuffed when you found him, and couldn't fly because he was so fatigued I'd hate to think what would have happened if he could only glide. Also, they don't have to fly far to be attacked. When I have Arnie out on the verandah with me, in her cage - the noisy minors hop up on the railings and peer into her cage, waiting for her to come out (I chase them away). I think regardless of whether they're clipped or flighted, escaping their home is a dangerous situation either way.

Sorry about your budgie's accident  do you keep budgies now?


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## olive juice (Mar 30, 2009)

clawnz said:


> Clipping to train is not the right way to bond with your pet bird.


Wait, there's a "right way" to bond with a pet??

I bonded with my first tiel, Halley, by PICKING HIM UP and holding him to my chest. Everything I read says NEVER TO GRAB YOUR BIRD, as it will only make him terrified of you, but this was NOT the case with Halley. He bonded to me incredibly quickly and deeply, and we shared a bond I doubt I'll share with any other pet.

And as I've said, I clipped my second tiel Echo once before. Echo has an attitude. He is persistent and stubborn and very self-assured. What all that means is that sometimes he really, really won't listen. When he first became an angsty teenager, he would fly all over the room, avoiding me. He would fly in circles, land on his cage in front of me, take off again if I reached for him. This would go on for a REALLY long time. Why? Because, fully-flighted, Echo's disobedience was rampant. He thought he didn't need me, or my roommate, or my boyfriend. He could FLY, of course he didn't depend on us. Except that actually, he does, and that kind of attitude is detrimental to our bond and to his well-being in general. Taking him out of his cage often turned into a chore, which was greatly upsetting to me. So, yes, I clipped his wings. Just enough that he would glide to the floor instead of soaring around the room ignoring me. And, what happened? He realized really quickly that he needed people, we were a part of his flock and we only wanted to help him get what he wants and needs. He understood that incredibly quickly and even though I've only clipped him that one time, he no longer plays this keep-away game the way he used to. It made our bond a lot stronger, he trusts me in a way that I'm not sure he did before.

So yeah, maybe those are the "wrong" ways to bond with a bird...but they were right for my birds and me.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

olive juice said:


> I bonded with my first tiel, Halley, by PICKING HIM UP and holding him to my chest. Everything I read says NEVER TO GRAB YOUR BIRD, as it will only make him terrified of you, but this was NOT the case with Halley. He bonded to me incredibly quickly and deeply, and we shared a bond I doubt I'll share with any other pet.


This is how i trained my first pet tweety pie my budgie using a towel aswell
and he was very tame


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## LittleGems (Jan 12, 2011)

This is a pretty long article, but one I think all bird owners should read http://www.onafricanwings.com/clipping.htm Ultimately each bird owner needs to make their own decision, but I just would like to see more people become informed on how clipping actually physically affects a bird, right down to their breathing!


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## Belinda (Oct 9, 2010)

Great article! I think we need to take precautions either way and everyone has their reasons for clipping or not clipping - but it makes really awesome points that should all be considered.
We try to follow all the precautions mentioned there for Arnie and I even went around and showed her the mirrors, tapped on the windows etc and I thought I was being a bit strange but she seems to understand it and that article mentions that. May be true! Thanks for that.


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## xxxSpikexxx (Jul 30, 2007)

I don't agree that birds who are clipped are mentally retarded. Spike has been mostly clipped since he was 10 weeks old and I taught him where all the windows and mirrors were and he has never hurt himself flying full speed ahead into a window,mirror or wall when his feathers grew in. He is a great flyer but it is too dangerous, especially with the puppy to let him fly. 
He also gets more exercise than just climbing his cage, even though he is clipped he flaps for exercise in his cage. He might not get anywhere but a runner on a treadmill gets the same exercise as they would going for a run outside. 
I also make sure he is never near anything cooking or near a door that may be opened, even though he is clipped. 
We also have gates up to keep they puppy away from the birds, when they are in the cages and out.
It is an interesting agrument about the breathing effect it might have but if they still flap their wings is that not flight like exercise. Iam going to bring it up at my next parrot club meeting and see what everyone thinks.


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## clawnz (May 28, 2009)

When did bonding to any pet by punishment become the right way? Sure some may need direction and correction.

This is how I firmly believe is a far better way.
I always try love, affection and kindness. This seems to work for me.
I have had many birds bond to me at the rescue, as well as my own birds.
Go to You Tube search clawinnz, you can see some of the birds I have bonded with, in the last 18mths. And the trust they give me in return. 
So I feel I am doing something right! And please remember that I do not get a lot of time with anyone of these birds.
When a new escapee comes in, I will not try to make physical contact, just stand and talk to them and offer little treats. After a few days or weeks depending on the attitude of the bird in question, I will try to pick up or catch in the cage. Then they may be given the chance to come out be held or to sit on my shoulder or even fly around.
Sometimes I do have to take them out to put on the scales the day they come in. This does depend on where they are thin and weak.
Picking a bird up by putting your hand over them is fine. Unless the bird is like Tinkerbell. Then it is best to leave them alone altogether. She does her own thing. It's taken her 18mths just to relax enough to enjoy a misting.
.
Grabbing them is a different thing. This will tend to freak them out and the harder you chase the worse it will get.
And I still hold firm to any clipping as a last resort, only. Not a training tool.



olive juice said:


> Wait, there's a "right way" to bond with a pet??
> 
> I bonded with my first tiel, Halley, by PICKING HIM UP and holding him to my chest. Everything I read says NEVER TO GRAB YOUR BIRD, as it will only make him terrified of you, but this was NOT the case with Halley. He bonded to me incredibly quickly and deeply, and we shared a bond I doubt I'll share with any other pet.
> 
> ...


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## olive juice (Mar 30, 2009)

clawnz said:


> When did bonding to any pet by punishment become the right way? Sure some may need direction and correction.
> 
> This is how I firmly believe is a far better way.
> I always try love, affection and kindness. This seems to work for me.
> ...


I think we can all agree that love and affection is the best training tool. But all the love and praise and sweetness in the world wasn't going to make Echo stop flying around the room if he didn't feel like going back in his cage. Clipping isn't mutually exclusive from love and affection...in fact, some might say clipping gives you the ability to be affectionate and vice versa.

I also think that rescue birds are a bit different than a mostly-tame pet. They're oftentimes "wild" and have likely mentally and physically relied on flying more so than your average bird. So it's like I said, the decision to clip LARGELY depends on the bird that you're dealing with.


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## clawnz (May 28, 2009)

olive juice said:


> I think we can all agree that love and affection is the best training tool. But all the love and praise and sweetness in the world wasn't going to make Echo stop flying around the room if he didn't feel like going back in his cage. Clipping isn't mutually exclusive from love and affection...in fact, some might say clipping gives you the ability to be affectionate and vice versa.
> 
> I also think that rescue birds are a bit different than a mostly-tame pet. They're oftentimes "wild" and have likely mentally and physically relied on flying more so than your average bird. So it's like I said, the decision to clip LARGELY depends on the bird that you're dealing with.


You think what you like.
But! No sorry, rescue birds are 'No Different' to mostly tame pet birds. They are mostly tame birds we get in, that I deal with. I did not even go into the wild birds we deal with.
I agree that some will of escaped because they did not want to stay where they were, some may have been mistreated, others may of been just let go.
And out in the wild they may not of been able to find food, been attacked by others birds. Most tame birds do not last long out in the wild. 
All this should by rights make it harder to bond them, due to past life.
As I said before it is great if they are tame and fully flighted, they then do have a chance to fly down to someone for food.

Here is a short list of birds I have bonded with in just 18mths.

Tweety Handicapped female Tiel. She was my first. Could not fly or walk when I got her.

Pandis SC2 29year old and had never stepped up for anyone for 12years. Walked up my arm and cuddled into my neck.

Coco mates Tiel. In 11dys I was able to put my hand over him and pick him up. his owners he never let them do that?

Zambeze Rainbow Lorikeet Well he follows me where ever I go. You have to be there to see what we can do together. *Clipped*

Potato Rainbow Lorikeet He also just wants to be where I am. He had never been out of his cage for the last 5yrs. *Plucked will never fly*

Baby Tiel with broken leg it was still being feed by hand. It was getting depressed being in the incubator, wearing a collar. and leg split.

Moustach Parrot. That just about loved everybody.

Baby Eastern Rosella 2 broken legs we fixed up and we hand raised.

Yellow Ringneck We have just rehomed, she loved to ride around the room.

Hammer Tiel we still have him, I handle most days I am at the rescue. Partial clip.

Rikki Eastern Rosella Cage aggressive who attacked most she got a chance. She could not fly well when I got her as she did not have the muscle development. It has taken her a long time to become a normal bird, who can now maneuver and zip around. I would say she is now very happy.

White Tiel I take out and handle.

The Yellow Love bird that will ride around the bird room on my shoulder. He has escaped three times, when others have gone to his cage, yet will come to me.

Vanita SC2 She loves to come and cuddle.

Roxy, Henry, and Max, who will al come to me for company when they want.

There are more, these are my own and ones we have or had in at the rescue. 
So you see why I say bonding and control can be done without any clipping.

My own birds were owned by someone else before I got them.
If you have the right personality and the patience most birds will respect you and take notice. Mind you it does depend on what you want, more than what you except. Each bird is different and I respect this.

Tinkerbell is the only bird I have not been able to connect with in this time frame. she is the one bird that should of gone to someone else, but I took her on and she will stay. This is mainly because I took her in and know there is very little chance of re homing her into a better situation. If I had her as a one on one situation, things may of been different. But in a free flight with the other three the situation is hard to control.
I would never cage her or clip her. 

Nobody seems to have the time any more.

Quote
"some might say clipping gives you the ability to be affectionate and vice versa." Quote

This is training by handicapping. When did cutting a birds flight feathers become affectionate?

A Tiel in the wild can fly 40kms in a single flight. I wounder how far some of our caged birds would get once they grew in their flights? Watch your baby and see how they get puffed out after only flying a few meters. And some will tell you their birds are fit and well.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

For people who are deciding to clip or not *Its your choice nobody elses* as this argument could last forever lol


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I can understand clipping, in a small apartment it is necessary at times. The problem is with babies. If you clip a babies wings before they are able to fledge, this can cause many problems. I had this issue with Mudflap. He came to us clipped and hadn't been allowed to fledge. Poor guy landed on his stomach every time he tried to fly and then he was seriously overweight. When he did grow his flight feathers back, he was out of breath after one turn around the room. It was sad to watch him not be able to enjoy what he was naturally intended to do because he hadn't been given that chance as a baby. Once they fledge, clipping should be left up to the owner.


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