# Need info on breeding cockatiels!!



## animalover (Jan 26, 2013)

Hi!! Im new to this site. I have a sweet, taimed male cockatiel named Johnny. I was wanting to get him a mate soon. But before I do that, I would like to know what to do, what to expect, etc. I know very little about bird mating and breeding, but would love to experience it. I figured its hard to to explain everything about this subject in a post. I do better getting info via phone call or videos. If you are willing to speak with me over the phone, let me know. Thanks everyone!!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

We have a lot of excellent information on breeding in our sticky library at http://talkcockatiels.com/forumdisplay.php?f=33

I also recommend the 10-part article on the Responsible Breeding of Cockatiels at http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artspctl.htm#Cockatiels (scroll down to find the articles)

You can also learn a lot by visiting the breeding forum frequently and reading the question and answer threads that are posted there. Breeding is complicated and there's a lot that can go wrong, so it's best to know about the responsibilities and pitfalls before you decide whether you're really ready to do something like this.


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## animalover (Jan 26, 2013)

Thank you very much!!! I will definitely look into it. I read the first of your article of that link. Part of it made me sad, especially when it said that ppl will do it just for money. Its not that i do want to do it and i want to sell baby tiels, but since i would like to get him a mate, I do want to be ready IF they do mate. I dont care if they never have babies  they will still be my little babies


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If you just want a companion for him, you could get another male cockatiel and not have to worry about babies. There's never any guarantee that two birds will like each other, but two same-sex birds can be just as happy together as two opposite-sex birds.

If you want to have a male-female pair but don't want to have babies, there are hormone control techniques that will reduce breeding behavior in most (but not all) cockatiels. There's a thread about it in the sticky library. It does mean that you have to spend half the year playing hormone police, though.


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## animalover (Jan 26, 2013)

This 10 piece article you sent me is awesome!!! After reading alot of it, I still would like to breed. I am a house wife/mom, so I spend a whole lot of my time at home. I do have a 2 year old, but he doesnt take up alot of my time. One thing I am going to start with is changing Johnnys diet. Hes on a seed diet, so ill need to provide him and the hen proper dieting in order to have healthy chicks. Thanks for yout help. If ypu have any other suggestions, please tell me.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

My website has an article on diet with a special section on breeding diet at http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/nutrition-tieldiet.html Besides the need for well-nourished parents, it's good to teach them to eat high-nutrition soft foods that they can feed to the babies. Soft foods are easier for babies to digest than hard foods like dry seed.


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## Erinsmom (Sep 7, 2012)

Unless you have show tiels or deal in really high volumes of babies no one is getting rich or really making much money selling babies. I got into breeding ( I have 3 prs ) all because I love the hand rearing and watching people get such an awesome tamed and loving pets to further interest in the tiels. When I went to look for one for my DD and I my state is almost void of tiels especially hand reared tamed ones. The major pet stores haven't carried them in over a year. Now between formula and paper towels and nesting materials and syringes and heat lamps extra cages and sleepless nights when something goes wrong all the extra prep of food and lets not forget the 6 weeks or so of handfeeding...LOL that 150 I get for a baby isn't much but I LOVE what I do. 

Best advise I can give you is what your doing... investigate not only breeding but the market in your area and understand that you may very well just end up with more birds.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> LOL that 150 I get for a baby isn't much but I LOVE what I do.


If you're getting $150 for a baby you're doing GREAT. The breeder price is usually a LOT less than the pet store price, and a lot depends on how much competition there is in your area. I get $30-60 for my babies depending on mutation (whiteface lutino is the fanciest I've got) and a few months ago I could have bought a hand-fed emerald baby for $65 at a bird mart. If I remember right she had one of the fancy cheek patch mutations too. I'll admit that I was tempted, but I was really looking for a normal grey adult female and got one for $30.

Home breeders who are really doing it right are going to lose money or break even at best. It's all about the love of birds, not making money. The way to make money is to run a "birdie mill" operation and that is NOT something that anyone on this board would condone.


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## Erinsmom (Sep 7, 2012)

tielfan said:


> If you're getting $150 for a baby you're doing GREAT. The breeder price is usually a LOT less than the pet store price, and a lot depends on how much competition there is in your area. I get $30-60 for my babies depending on mutation (whiteface lutino is the fanciest I've got) and a few months ago I could have bought a hand-fed emerald baby for $65 at a bird mart. If I remember right she had one of the fancy cheek patch mutations too. I'll admit that I was tempted, but I was really looking for a normal grey adult female and got one for $30.
> 
> Home breeders who are really doing it right are going to lose money or break even at best. It's all about the love of birds, not making money. The way to make money is to run a "birdie mill" operation and that is NOT something that anyone on this board would condone.


Where I am at it is a very tight market and the few of us that do it really do it for the love of the birds and wanting to present the best pet possible and then there are the others who breed for show so not many get put out for sale to just the general public. I don't sell birds I hand raise companions. When I picked my 2nd and 3rd pair the lady I got them from had 2 SMALL wire cages stuffed with one for females and one for males shoved in a corner behind other cage full of birds. No toys and just 2 dowel perches I wish I could of taken them all but I had decided 3 prs only ( I already have one) and they live together in their own cages in our family room. They are pets first and foremost and if they never have a clutch IDC THIS is there home forever.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

There's plenty of competition in my area, possibly because the climate allows outdoor aviaries year-round so it's easier to find space for a breeding operation. We have lots of bargain hunters too, who will try to argue breeders down from the low prices that they're asking. I don't sell to people like that because I'm worried about how well they'll take care of the birds. The fancy mutation baby was very tame, but her breeder was frustrated because people would hear the price tag (which was a super bargain basement price IMO) and then go to another booth and buy a parent-raised aviary bird for $25 because it was cheaper.


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## Erinsmom (Sep 7, 2012)

tielfan said:


> There's plenty of competition in my area, possibly because the climate allows outdoor aviaries year-round so it's easier to find space for a breeding operation. We have lots of bargain hunters too, who will try to argue breeders down from the low prices that they're asking. I don't sell to people like that because I'm worried about how well they'll take care of the birds. The fancy mutation baby was very tame, but her breeder was frustrated because people would hear the price tag (which was a super bargain basement price IMO) and then go to another booth and buy a parent-raised aviary bird for $25 because it was cheaper.


Yeah i wonder if that kind of thing is why there are not many around here. I don't know why the average person would pick a parent raised bird over a hand raised unless they don't know the difference first hand. Although I have visited pet shoppes who claim hand raised BUT they are not really tame. **** at just 4 weeks my babies will beg for you to take them out of the baby cage.  I spend anywhere from 4-8 hours a day with them at this point handling them. Then there is the rest of my family who loves to handle them too.
I agree I wouldn't sell to people like that either. The lady i got those 2 prs from tried to buy babies from me and I won't sell them to her. She owns a pet shop and I am reasonably sure she would actually sell them as pets but the thought of one of my babies ending up in that horrible sexed cage hidden behind other cages of different birds just waiting for the day to be tossed in with an unknown bird 1 perch and a nest box in an even smaller box makes me so sad. I make sure and let people know who buy one of my babies if for any reason they want to get rid of it I will gladly take it back....hopefully that helps avoid any of them ending up in that type of atmosphere.


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## animalover (Jan 26, 2013)

I have a question that I cant find an answer for. Maybe I am overlooking it. Johnny is a common grey male. Is there a certain type of cockatiel that he shouldnt mate with because it could case genetic problems with the babies?


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

Actually your bird is a pied. You want to avoid breeding two of the same mutations together so avoiding another pied bird would be ideal.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I agree, your boy is pied. I can't tell whether he's split to anything else (this means that he's carrying the genes without being visual). 

A split-pied hen would be a nice mate for him, you would expect half their babies to be pied. Many split-pied birds have a few light-colored feathers on the back of their head but don't have light-colored feathers in unusual places elsewhere on their body; this is called a pied tickmark and it makes life easy for people who are looking for a split-pied bird.

Other splits aren't as easy to identify and some don't have any visible sign at all. But if you post some nice clear pictures of your boy's face, particularly his cheek patch, we can look for signs of a whiteface split. The other split that's fairly easy to see is a pearl split, which shows up in "ghost pearls" on a male's wings, but I don't see any of those on Johnny.


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## animalover (Jan 26, 2013)

maybe this can help


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It looks to me like he's split whiteface. His eye looks a bit reddish in this picture so he might be split cinnamon too. The eye of a split-cinnamon male will reflect back a wine color when the light hits it at an indirect angle.

If he's split cinnamon he can have cinnamon daughters no matter what color his mate is. If she's visual cinnamon they can have cinnamon sons too.

If she's visual or split whiteface they can have whiteface babies. If she's also split pied, some of their babies will be whiteface pied like Pip in my signature.

There's a simple genetics calculator at http://www.kirstenmunson.com/cockatiels/blue.html that will let you play around with different combinations of parent genes.


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## animalover (Jan 26, 2013)

So a split-pied mate would be good for him? For educational purpose, is there a mutation I should avoid?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

As others have mentioned, like to like breeding isn't ideal so it might be best to avoid a visual-pied mate. Although the biggest issues with like to like breeding come from breeding two lutinos together, that's a higher risk than breeding two pieds together.

If you need some information on what the different mutations look like, we have a couple of modest mutation guides in the sticky library:
http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=7227
http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=6550

Whiteface and pied are ordinary recessive genes, and you probably know how that works already. Cinnamon, lutino and pearl are sex-linked recessive genes. The inheritance rules are complicated, but if you'd like to open that can of worms we have an explanation at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=26845 If reading it leaves you mind-boggled and confused, then congratulations - you're normal. But most people get the hang of it eventually.

There are a lot of rare mutations, but your birds aren't likely to have any of those genes unless you've made a special effort to get birds with those genes.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> We have lots of bargain hunters too, who will try to argue breeders down from the low prices that they're asking. I don't sell to people like that because I'm worried about how well they'll take care of the birds.


I've had this issue too as well. I had one lady try to talk me down and then when I wouldn't go down she said that she would just wait for a "$30 bird" (her exact words.) I've also had people contact me, asking if I would give them a bird for free (we have the cage for it and we take all our animals to the vet, we just paid $100 on vet care for a rabbit, etc) and once again I refuse. The amount I place on my birds is to ensure that the person who takes them is actually going to take care of them.

Its great that you are doing your research before hand animalover. I agree he looks split to WF and cinnamon, so I would try to find a wf cinnamon hen split to pied. That would get you some really interesting looking babies.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> The amount I place on my birds is to ensure that the person who takes them is actually going to take care of them.


I agree. We have a disreputable bird dealer in town who sells as a private seller, so that people think they're dealing with a breeder. It's possible that he actually does breed a few birds, but it looks like he mostly just scoops up cheap birds wherever he can get them and sells them at a markup. He misrepresents birds as being handfed babies, tame, and/or healthy when sometimes they aren't, and it's suspected that sometimes he drugs crazy out of control parrots so they act tame when a buyer comes to look at them. When I get offers from people saying "I'll give you $100 for all five of your chicks", I wonder if they're working for him. There are some people who will do bulk sales to these guys but I'm not one of them. If people don't want to pay full price then I'll keep the babies until I find a more trustworthy buyer.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> If people don't want to pay full price then I'll keep the babies until I find a more trustworthy buyer.


Exactly! With this last clutch, I had Angel til she was eight months old (I just found her a home this past week) and that was fine. I planned for that, I'd rather be patient and wait for the right person to come along.


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## animalover (Jan 26, 2013)

*What color is my bird??*

I took some better pics of Johnny today. Does he still look spilt white face/ split cinnamon?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I don't know about split to wf but in those pix he looks like a visual cinnamon.


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## animalover (Jan 26, 2013)

I forgot to mention that he has yellow spots under his wings. So cute!!!


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## animalover (Jan 26, 2013)

I cant figure out what a pied cockatiel is. Whats the difference between pied and split?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Pieds have all yellow tail feathers and flight feathers....a split has tick marks on the back of the head or light colored toe nails. A split to pied is only carrying the gene on one allele while a visual pied has it on both and so will give it to all its babies while a split will only give the gene to some of its babies.


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## animalover (Jan 26, 2013)

I looked in the sticky library about proper use of a brooder, heating pads, etc. However, there are a few different responses on how ppl feel about using heating pads due to the possibility of too much heat and burns. Overall, is a heating pad not a good idea? Is it better to use a heat lamp?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

For handfeeding? Like if you are going to pull the chicks? A heating pad is better because you only need to place it on one side of the brooder...if it gets to hot the chicks will move to the cooler side.


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

Erinsmom said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Where I am at it is a very tight market and the few of us that do it really do it for the love of the birds and wanting to present the best pet possible and then there are the others who breed for show so not many get put out for sale to just the general public. I don't sell birds I hand raise companions. When I picked my 2nd and 3rd pair the lady I got them from had 2 SMALL wire cages stuffed with one for females and one for males shoved in a corner behind other cage full of birds. No toys and just 2 dowel perches I wish I could of taken them all but I had decided 3 prs only ( I already have one) and they live together in their own cages in our family room. They are pets first and foremost and if they never have a clutch IDC THIS is there home forever.



That is exactly what I want. I know a lot of people looking for companion birds in my area, and would rather breed and hand-raise to provide them with perfect companions than to "sell" them to some random person I don't know! If I am going to put hard work and dedication into a bird, I don't want to see it being abused, or just moved from home to home randomly. Plus I think it would be nice to breed a good little companion for myself and teach my kids how to handle them once they get older so they have a companion or two for themselves.


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## animalover (Jan 26, 2013)

Is it true that cockatiels, who were your sweet and cuddly friends, once they have become breeders, they no longer are sweet and cuddly friends? Instead they can be quite mean towards you?


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

Sadly I don't know personally, since I haven't experienced it....but there is a possibility that the birds will still enjoy being with you, but it may not be when they are mating, or trying to raise a clutch? If you have a very good bond with both of them, then there isn't any reason it should change if they aren't mating and raising chicks. I think it may be best at that point to let them out and let them interact with you outside of the cage, as they may be more protective of the nesting area. =]


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## animalover (Jan 26, 2013)

I have a question. Why do some ppl use paper towels as nesting material imstead of wood shavings?


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

I don't know, I just know that it's better to use something that is big enough that the parents won't try to feed it to the babies.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Is it true that cockatiels, who were your sweet and cuddly friends, once they have become breeders, they no longer are sweet and cuddly friends? Instead they can be quite mean towards you?


This is usually NOT true of cockatiels. They might chomp on you if you stick your hand in the nest while they're inside, but that's just the natural instinct to defend the nest. While they have eggs or babies to take care of they won't have a lot of free time to hang out with you, but otherwise they'll usually still be your buddy. Once the babies are grown you can go back to enjoying your old relationship.



> Why do some ppl use paper towels as nesting material imstead of wood shavings?


This is an old practice and some people still recommend it (including the well-known Cockatiel Cottage website unfortunately). But this is outdated information, and a nice thick layer of wood shavings is better.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> Is it true that cockatiels, who were your sweet and cuddly friends, once they have become breeders, they no longer are sweet and cuddly friends? Instead they can be quite mean towards you?


This depends on the bird. My male Fuzzy was a sweet cuddle bug but when he was nesting, watch out, he'd bite HARD. I always removed him from the nest first and he was super protective of his mate and his babies. Now my girl Cinnamon on the other hand, the minute I came home from work she would jump out of the box to greet me. She never bit me when I went in the box and she never had any issue with me going in the box and checking on her eggs. So it all depends on the bird.



> I have a question. Why do some ppl use paper towels as nesting material imstead of wood shavings?


Paper towels are not recommended because they steal moisture from the eggs and can kill the babies in the eggs before they hatch. Shavings are the best to use because they help the eggs retain moisture and provide cushion after they hatch.


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## animalover (Jan 26, 2013)

I would like to get your opinion on this.... what is HEALTHIEST for a baby bird, parent to feed or hand feed? I read in an article that when baby bird is parent fed, it is healthier and gains more weight. On the flipside, when a baby bird is hand fed, it is used to being handled by humans.


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

I think it depends on the parents...Some new parents who aren't as experienced can be quite clumsy, but sometimes right off the bat they can be excellent parents! Sometimes a female will notice a baby is sick and actually will refuse to care for it (I think at that point it may be in the baby's best interest to either hand-feed or take it to a vet to find out what is wrong immediately). But I do think that parent-raising is a good idea just for the added benefit of their health, but hand-raising (apparently) rarely has complications so long as you make sure they're getting enough warmth (but not too warm) and are eating enough without overeating. 

I'm not sure yet how early I plan to take the babies out, I was reading on a breeder's page somewhere that they remove the babies 10 days after hatching, some take the eggs our and incubate them (I think this risks over-breeding the parents though as they will lay more eggs), and then I read somewhere that other breeders wait 2-3 weeks before taking them out. But I think this last option may be best unless I see one not being taken care of. =] I think ultimately it's up to you and how comfortable you think you will be with hand-feeding. You could always try hand-feeding 1 and letting the rest be parent-fed so you don't feel overwhelmed, and just handling each baby individually so that they still get to bond with people. =]

But again, this will be my first time breeding (I have hand-raised though), so of course my knowledge is very limited and I would definitely wait until someone more knowledgeable on the subject can answer your question before making any decisions.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Parent fed is ALWAYS healthier. The parents carry natural good bacteria that they regurgitate to the babies, that otherwise the babies wouldn't get because its not something that is in hand feeding formula. 

Co-parenting is your best option. When you do this, you feed once in the morning and once at night and let the parents handle the rest, while you handle the baby throughout the day. This way, you'll know when to stop feeding because the parent's do and the baby will be tame (there really is no difference between a co-parented baby's attitude and a handfed baby if they were both handled regularly.)


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

roxy culver said:


> Parent fed is ALWAYS healthier. The parents carry natural good bacteria that they regurgitate to the babies, that otherwise the babies wouldn't get because its not something that is in hand feeding formula.
> 
> Co-parenting is your best option. When you do this, you feed once in the morning and once at night and let the parents handle the rest, while you handle the baby throughout the day. This way, you'll know when to stop feeding because the parent's do and the baby will be tame (there really is no difference between a co-parented baby's attitude and a handfed baby if they were both handled regularly.)




The co-parenting sounds very interesting. I haven't heard of it before. =] Maybe that is what I will try when they begin to breed again!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I co-parent all my babies and it works out great. They get the benefits of both parent feeding and handfeeding.


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## animalover (Jan 26, 2013)

While the parents feed, what do you feed the parents? Do you go back to all seed? Or do you do fruits, veggies, seeds, shells, etc?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The babies need high-nutrition food so that's what you need to feed the parents. It also helps a lot if the food is easy to digest. There's info on the special needs of breeding birds at http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/nutrition-tieldiet.html#breeders


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