# Biting in response to step up



## ilovetiels (Jul 31, 2008)

One of our cockatiels, Birdie, bites in response to the step up command. Actually, any time your hand gets close. 
The thing is, I don't think he's frightened of hands due to the fact that he _loves_ his scratches! Once you ask him if he wants a scratch, he's perfectly fine... until you put your hand/finger in front of him and say step up.
The only way to get him out of his cage without being bitten (he won't come out by himself) is to either towel him or cover your hand with a sleeve.
So my question is this - how do I teach him not to bite?
I don't pull away when he bites or react to it in any way.
Should I towel him and hold him against my chest, giving him srcritches when he doesn't bite and once he's calmed down try the step up command again? Or should I bite the bullet and do the step up thing and allow the biting but just not react?
Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks!


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## kimmikefids (Aug 2, 2008)

i would say myself that even tho you aren't reacting, by not MAKING him step up after biting he is gettin the reaction he wants...no stepping up...i would take the bites but make him step up...even if it takes a while...once he learns even if he bites he still has to step up..hopefully he will give up on the biting...again its just what i would do....maybe others can either agree or give u other advice


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## sweetrsue (Jul 8, 2008)

It sounds like you mean he really bites. Most 'tiels will first put their beak on whatever they are about to step onto. It a natural reaction. It's also natural for people to think they are attempting to bite. So if this kind of reaction was set up early in his life it may have become a game to him. And yes...you are correct! The best way to deal with it is not to react to the bite. Hopefully it's not too painful, but if his game no longer works he will quit doing it. It may take a while but if you can bare it that's what you have to do. Offering a reward for good behavior is also a good idea. In fact you could try holding a bit of millet of other treat just out of his reach unless he steps onto your hand. The key to rewarding tho is that you must reward even the slightest progress. One tiny bit in the direction you want him to go deserves a reward. Eventually he should step right up.


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## ilovetiels (Jul 31, 2008)

He bites _hard_. More often than not he draws blood. I can bear the pain though. My cokatiel, Saffron, bit harder (he's a big, ol' softy, now) and so does my boyfriends bird, Jo jo.
In regards to the treats, I think we'll have to use scritches! It's the only thing he loves and he only eats seed.


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## Danielle (Aug 15, 2008)

I was lucky that Quinn didn't draw blood, but he did bite fairly hard at first. He doesn't bite me any more, I just completely ignored the behaviour. It took about a week and a half. He hates hands unless he's stepping up after a shower or if I have seed in my palm.

I went through a similar thing with a wild-rescued ship rat (those bites bled, a lot), and he's really good with hands now. I just ignored the bites until he realised it didn't work and I wasn't going to hurt him.


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

What about instead of using your hand use a perch or something long that he can step up onto.. that way you won't be bitten and have blood drawn. Once you've used the perch or whatever for awhile then try using your hand again. I guess it wouldn't hurt to try, the best thing you're doing is not reacting which is a MUST.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> The best way to deal with it is not to react to the bite.


Actually, the best way to deal with it is to not get bitten in the first place. A bad habit is being reinforced every time he's allowed to bite you. Use a hand-held stick for step ups if he'll cooperate. It's perfectly OK for him to bite the heck out of the stick since nobody is getting hurt.

Work on positive reinforcement for good behavior. Hold your finger in front of him in the step-up position but well out of reach and at a distance where he won't be annoyed enough to threaten you with his beak. Then reward him for being such a good boy, whether it's with head scritches or a bite of millet spray or anything else that he values. Then work on moving the finger closer. If he starts to make a slight threat with his beak, stop right there and wait until he closes the beak and then reward him. You want him to get the idea that the sight of a step-up finger is a good thing, and not making threats pays off!

Consider also whether he has a reason to avoid step ups. Does he hate being out of his cage? If he does, you need to work on teaching him that being out is fun and rewarding. Is he protecting his territory? If he is, try deflecting his attention with conversation, treats, maybe even head scritches through the bars so he's happy to see you and isn't so focused on homeland defense.


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## ilovetiels (Jul 31, 2008)

I've made some progress! He's not biting anymore! Still a bit nippy though but we'll work through that. I tried using a stick for step up but for some reason he seems to be really frightened of it. That gradually moving the finger closer method and rewarding him when he doesn't threaten with his beak really works! 
It seems to me the main reason he doesn't like to step up is because he associates it with going back into his cage. He absolutely _loves_ being out, although all he wants when he is is scritches. Silly bird!! I'll have to find a food treat he really likes and convince him back in with that, so he also associates going back _in_ with good things.
Thanks for your help guys!!


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## sweetrsue (Jul 8, 2008)

There is a long thread about a zoo with large numbers of birds who are able to get them in at night by waiting to feed the birds their main meal until that time. It was called "Getting tiels back in their cage" posted by plukie. Lots of good info there. If you just put that in the search function on the tool bar you should be able to find it.


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## ilovetiels (Jul 31, 2008)

I'm going to have to find a reward other than scritches! I've got about 7 puncture wounds on my hand right now. OUCH!!! And I've changed to the sticks to teach step up. He _was_ frightened of them but prefers them to my hand - not to mention there's less casualties that way!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> I've got about 7 puncture wounds on my hand right now. OUCH!!!


It sounds like you started trying to go a little bit too fast! Just take it slow and work at the bird's pace, and stop the lesson if he starts getting bored and restless. Or better still, stop BEFORE he starts getting bored and restless.

Millet spray makes a great reward if he likes it. It's especially good with biters, since you can hold a long spray out for them to nibble while keeping your hand out of beak range!


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## ilovetiels (Jul 31, 2008)

Umm...yes, I think maybe I did. :blush: I tried the millet spray too - he does take a couple of nibbles of it, so I'll keep on with that. Thankyou!!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Positive reinforcement training is as much of a learning process for the human as it is for the bird. Ideally, you want to manage things so you don't get bitten at all. So when a bite does occur, try to figure out exactly why it happened so you can avoid making the same mistake again. When you went for the head scritch, did the bird mistake your intentions and nail you because he thought you were after a step up? Did you maybe still have the stick in your hand and he attacked because of that? Is he just getting generally cranky and needs a break? This kind of analysis will make you more aware of the bird's point of view, which helps you improve your training technique. You're trying to get his cooperation so you don't want to annoy him. Seven puncture wounds is a lot, but you have the power to reduce these incidents!


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## ilovetiels (Jul 31, 2008)

I know what it was - I think. If he wants a scratch, he usually puts his head down for one. Now that I think about it, he didn't want scratches because he didn't put his head down. My bad. Sometimes you don't think about these things until you get someone else's perspective on the situation. Thankyou!
From now on, complete and utter concentration on the task at hand. Pay attention to his body language. Right?


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## jorgenson1717 (Oct 17, 2008)

Sometimes Cocoa would bite and try to run away especially when he has to "go home" as I tell Cocoa when I am putting it away. I don't pull away and I enforce the step up command a little more when it is biting or trying to run away. The boys are haivng success in the biting issue. I can see a big difference in Cocoa after practicing this more and more. Cocoa is finding it can't get away with anything. It loves scratches so that is the reward we do a lot. I have special treats I only use when I am training Cocoa. I find training a fun time for Cocoa and myself.

Good luck!

Cindy


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Pay attention to his body language. Right?


Yes indeed. And adjust your response accordingly. You want to be able to deliver a reward to him, but if he doesn't want a head scritch then you need to offer him something else, like a nibble of millet spray. And if he simply isn't accepting rewards at the moment then the training session is effectively over. 

You can proceed to play and pal around with him at that point if he wants to because that will still help the friendship. But if he wants to be left alone then leave him alone, because bothering him will not help the friendship.


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## PtsRPpl2 (Sep 22, 2008)

My senegal did the same thing, Cindy, when I tried putting him to bed at night - b/c of course, he NEVER wanted to go to bed, like a child!  (So you can't ALWAYS avoid a bite in that case.) He'd bite me and then say ouch! He was too funny! I agree with you though - you just can't pull away. That's a great idea about special treats for a training session! I've got to remember that one.


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## ilovetiels (Jul 31, 2008)

What do I do if he stops threatening with his beak and I offer him his reward, then he bites _that_? Do I still give him the reward after he's done this, or wait til he calms down and then offer it again?


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## Plukie (Aug 26, 2007)

This is the thread that SweetSue was talking about:- http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=6098 I hope it helps a bit. There is some really good information on this thread and I'll be trying that with the Doobster, he can be a bit nippy sometimes, although he's not half as bad as he used to be. I almost gave him away because of the biting, I was at my wits end, but then I took the advice on here and it's like having a different bird in the house, he's a darling. So, good luck, stick at it and it will pay off in the end.


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

ilovetiels said:


> What do I do if he stops threatening with his beak and I offer him his reward, then he bites _that_? Do I still give him the reward after he's done this, or wait til he calms down and then offer it again?


Don't give it to him, wait until he calms and try again, if he tries to bite the reward again then do the same thing.. giving it to him would be showing him he's getting goodies for being naughty, like when a child chucks a tantrum and you give them a lolly for instance and they stop.

What are you rewarding him with? (trying to)


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It's OK for him to bite the reward because that doesn't hurt anyone. He's not biting flesh and that's the behavior you want to encourage. So go ahead and let him take an annoyance chomp if he wants to and then an eating bite of the food. The annoyance chomp is delaying the actual eating, so he'll stop it after he gets more used to training.

If you wait until he's calmed down and offer the reward again, he won't know what the reward is for - too much time will have passed between the time he earned it and the time he received it.


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## Amy1569 (Oct 14, 2008)

The only time mine bites (attempts to!..but never an aggressive mean BITE..) is when I ask him to step up from my shoulder (or anyones) to come down...he gets mad.


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## ilovetiels (Jul 31, 2008)

I've found that if I take him into my room and get him out, then remove the cage, that he's a lot calmer and doesn't bite. Would that be because I'd be the only thing that he's familiar with in the room? I think I might do the training sessions there from now on. What do you think?


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## Cannuck2007 (Feb 29, 2008)

ilovetiels said:


> I've found that if I take him into my room and get him out, then remove the cage, that he's a lot calmer and doesn't bite. Would that be because I'd be the only thing that he's familiar with in the room? I think I might do the training sessions there from now on. What do you think?


That is exactly it! You are familiar and safe so he relies more heavily on you. This is the best way to train some birds in my experience. As for the biting, Mr. Maggie was rehomed to us because of his biting. What we did is stair him. Make him step from finger to finger to finger to finger ect... It tired him out and once he stopped biting we rewarded him. Might work for you too.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

How are things going? Has he gotten any better about step ups?


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## ilovetiels (Jul 31, 2008)

Yeah, he's doing really well. He doesn't bite anymore when I do step ups and ladders but he does when I try to take him out of the cage. I've been putting a cloth on my hand and he'll step up with no biting. I figure I'll do it like that until he's more used to my hands and then try getting him out without the cloth.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Wonderful, I'm glad that you made progress! Biting when you try to take him out of the cage might be territorialism. Offering him a treat before you go for the step up might distract him so that defending his territory isn't his top priority. I've found this to be an excellent attitude sweetener for my birds! Instead of "Hey, that nasty hand is invading my cage" it's "Hey, that nice hand is giving me goodies".


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