# Bumblefoot?



## MissCV

Hi All

I am concerned that my cockatiel has bumblefoot. I was looking for some suggestions/recommendations for treatment that i can discuss with the vet (we have an appt on Saturday morning).

There is a bit of a history with my little guy and his feet which i have listed out in the thread here:

http://www.talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=25864

But to update, he is still meds twice daily (clavulox to treat the sores on his feet and mycostatin to try to manage a reoccuring yeast infection). There are only 2 perches in his cage, both low to the ground and easily accessable and his cage is lined with newspaper. His perches are all different sizes and all natural wood. 

I disinfect the perches every second day with boiling water and clean his cage morning and night to try to prevent any further infections.

He is still eating normally and singing and looking for head scratches but I know his condition is worsening by his continued limp and sores on his feet, even with the meds.

So I am really hoping that you guys can suggest some alternate solutions that i can discuss with my vet as I am starting to feel frustrated that he has been on the meds for so long now (4 weeks) and no improvements are happening.

I really appreciate your time taken to read my post and hope someone can offer some advise for me and little Pooks!


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## bjknight93

Poor baby...which foot are you concerned that it may have bumblefoot? His right one that you were having issues with last time or his left on with the broken toe?


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## bjknight93

I think getting him a comfy perch (rope perch) would be very good for him at this point...just a thought. They shouldn't irritate his feet the way natural, wooden, or any hard perch in general would.


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## sunnysmom

I'm rather new to tiels. So I can't offer any advice. I hope others can. My only thought is would a rope perch be easier on his feet than wood? I hope the vet can help him.


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## MissCV

Thanks for your very quick replies!!

I think its in both feet. The foot with the broken toe has the sores on it, which have now spread to his little heel as well as the part of the broken toe that rubs on the perches. And his other foot is the one he limps on, and from what I have researched online, Bumblefoot can cause inflamation and soreness even if there are no sores evident on the skin. So this makes me think he has it in both feet 

We have a rope perch for him but he is so scared of it, he goes mental trying to get away from it. I have been sitting it ontop of his cage during the day when i am home so he starts to get used to it, but i think its going to be a long process of getting him familiar with it before we can use it. Thanks for the suggestions though, its very helpful!

Im just hoping the vet can offer some alternate treatment options as it feels like the ones we have been using are not working out. I often take suggestions from these forums and mention them to the vet, which can sometimes help them think of something that they might not have considered before. Everyone on here is always so helpful and has so much knowledge, I respect everyones opinions and suggestions!!


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## tielfan

Does he like millet spray? If so, putting some next to the rope perch will help speed up the learning process. You might have to start out at a distance and gradually move the millet spray closer to the perch.


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## morla

What is bumblefoot?


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## tielfan

Bumblefoot is an abscess on the foot that can be caused by unsuitable perches, bacterial infections, or Vitamin A deficiency. There's an article at http://www.avianweb.com/bumblefoot.html


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## morla

Oh ok. Thank-you.


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## MissCV

Thanks for the tip on the millet spray tielfan! Will try that out tonight.


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## MissCV

Update from the vet: not good news. 

The vet could only suggest we start bandaging his foot (the one with the broken toe) which would add a massive amount of stress onto him and due to the broken toe would only be a short term fix. As it appears the pressure of the break in his toe is causing pressure to be applied to parts of his feet that are not meant to hold their weight, thus causing the sores. Anyway the bandaging would need to be changed every second week, so that could mean lots of vet visits potentially with no long term solution. He said we would start it in the new year as they will be closed for the next few weeks during the Christmas break, but I am concerned with how much worse his feet will get over the next few weeks with no treatment options.

He also suggested amputation of the toe but due to his old age, the vet didnt think that it was really necessary. In the vets own words, we need a long term solution for a short term bird 

In relation to the fact that his other foot is sore, the vet didnt seem too concerned. He said its not the main issue to be addressed?

On top of all of that, he has a yeast infection from the meds. So my vet advised me to take him off of the antibiotics and continue with the antifungal meds to try to get the yeast infection under control.

I feel very disappointed with the outcome and would like to take him to another vet for a second opinion. It almost feels as though the vet didnt think there was much more we can do for him. 

I asked about Vitamin A deficiency but he didnt seem to think that was a resolution either.

So the mission continues to get him fixed before time runs out. Ill try to keep the thread updated so if anyone else goes through the same issue, it might assist them one day.

Thanks for taking the time to read my thread! Wish me luck.


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## DyArianna

Wow.. we wish you luck! Keeping our fingers crossed here for you guys. I think I would get a second opinion too.


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## sunnysmom

I am so sorry the news wasn't better. Poor little bird. I think your idea of finding another vet is good. I hope a different vet can help. Please keep us updated. Sending positive thoughts your way.


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## bjknight93

I would definitely get a second opinion. But maybe it would help to amputate the toe? I feel like that would take the pressure off and it shouldn't bother his grip if he can't really use it properly as it is now. It sounds absolutely horrible but it's possible it could help him a lot.


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## srtiels

Are you using an avian vet? Some thpoughts come to mind. I have had broken toes and birds bones in their feet can knit back together within 7-10 days. So if there is a broken toe it should be set when the break is new, if not the bones will heal crooked. 

Other causes of the sore feet are gout. a vet can do some bloodwork to see what the uric acid levels are.

if gout is suspected it can be treated.


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## MissCV

Thanks so much for everyones replies. Its a very sad and frustrating situation for both me and my poor little tiel. The only upside is that he still appears happy, singing and occassionally biting us, so he is doing a good job to put on a brave face.

I am using an avian vet. He has been very good in the past but it just seems as though he has run out of ideas. Plus the fact that my tiel HATES him and attacks him with a passion may impact his treatment options he is giving me (he said he has never seen a tiel with so much passion towards biting him. he actually uses the towels he uses for lorrikeets with my guy, as he has bitten him through the wraps that he used to use on him! So handling him becomes an issue)

His toe has been broken for a long time now. We tried to strap it but it didnt heal, as we werent sure how long it had been broken for before we noticed it sitting crooked. There is a bit of history on the broken toe in this old thread i started when we began with the problems http://www.talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=15531

Thanks for your suggestion srtiels! I will ask about gout. How do they take bloodwork? Is it something that they need to anesthatise for??

The only other avian vet i can find is over an hours drive away and with Christmas just around the corner it is hard to get an appointment, especially with how busy i am with work. But I am doing my best to get some resolution for my poor tiel


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## MissCV

I just made an appointment for Thursday morning at a Specialised Bird & Exotics Vet. It will be expensive but hopefully worth it. They suggested a morning appointment so that they can take tests etc and hopefully have the results back same day.

Now just to convince my boss to let me take the day off!! 

Ill let you know how we go. Fingers crossed!


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## DyArianna

You have a sick family member??  We will be thinking of you guys! Good luck!


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## MissCV

We visited the vet today so just updating you all.

Apart from it being a very expensive visit ($500+ AUD), we managed to get some xrays and blood work done. My tiel didnt even try to kill the vet, so it wasnt all bad 

The vet suspected kidney problems. If the kidney is swollen apparantly it can put pressure on the spine and the nerve that affects the leg/foot. 

The xray didnt show any major issues. His kidney was slightly enlarged but not to the size that the vet would expect that it would cause problems with his feet. And his bones in his feet were ok too. The broken toe is broken but luckily the use of his foot hasnt caused any of the other bones to warp or thicken.

We are just waiting on the blood work to come back tomorrow so hopefully that will give us a little more information. 

For now he has got a bandage on his foot with the broken skin from the bumblefoot, which should help his sores and prevent infection. And has been put back onto antibiotics and antifungal. But the medication is different to what he has been given previously so hopefully it will be a little more effective.

Ive attached a pic of him and his bandage (its coordinated with his feathers at least ) and will let you know what we find out from his blood test.

Thanks again to you all for your support and comments.


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## Kenziekenz

Aww. He has a cute little birdie bandage! 

That vet visit sounded promising! Hopefully things take a turn for the better.

I was thinking, I'm sure its already been brought up and I just didnt see it...if he doesnt like the rope perch, would it be beneficial to him to maybe remove perches entirely until his foot heals?


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## MissCV

The vet was fantastic! I wish I could take him there all the time. They were so great, even when i told them i probably couldnt afford to come back, that they said my local avian vet can call them for information on his test results and xrays which should help future treatment.

He actually just did a big scary poop. It was very watery and had some funny colour in his urine. A little scary but i assume it might be from the stress of everything today? Ill be keeping a very close eye.

Im still working on the rope perch (without much success - he really hates it!) but thanks for your suggestion. I should have mentioned that i have taken all of his perches out. We did this last week after our vet visit. He has only one perch now, being his perch for his food trays and a ladder to help him climb up there with his bandage.


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## MeanneyFids

a thought if he doesnt like rope perches.

you can wrap fleece around his perches too. this will make them cushioned on his feet 


EDIT: as for the dropping, they did find enlargement in his kidneys. even if its slight, it could be causing some changes in the urine and urates. do keep an eye on that. and try not to give him high protein foods like egg, because too much protein isnt the best for the kidneys.


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## bjknight93

My birds would be gnawing at their foot trying to get that off! lol! i hope he does get better, keep us posted!


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## .mpeg

are you giving him some vitamin a for his little foot? red/orange veges are good for vitamin a.
if you're still having yeast issues, i find apple cider vinegar extremely effective. 1mL in 250mL of water. it actually completely eradicated a case of yeast in one of my finches, and has prevented yeast in all my birds that have been on meds. 

hope everything is okay!


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## sunnysmom

The vet visit sounds promising. I hope they can figure out what's wrong and help him. (And he does look cute with his little bandage. Sweet little guy.)


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## MissCV

Yep he loves his pumpkin so he has been getting that every couple of days, plus rockmelon and his usual spinach and broccoli. Im thinking over the Christmas break i will try to cook him a special treat with some different vegies (carrot etc) that he wouldnt usually eat.

Ill give the apple cider vinegar a go too. Can i just buy that at the supermarket or is there somewhere special i should go? Would it affect his medications if i start putting that in his water? I might ask the vet when they call me today.

Thanks for your replies guys!! Its so nice to know there is so much love for my little guy!

And yes, i think the bandage is making him a little crazy. When he gets cranky and falls over from it, he attacks it for a bit. Hopefully it will last the 5 days!


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## MissCV

Blood work are in. There is an underlying liver problem, probably causing the reoccurring yeast infections. Anyway we are heading back to the vet tomorrow for some treatment options. Fingers crossed.


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## marylou

just read this whole thread..so glad you have gotten to the bottom of the issue! i would have been heartbroken if my vet had told me that i had a short term bird!  keeping all our, fingers, feathers and paws crossed here for you and your cutie!


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## MissCV

thanks marylou! I couldnt have imagined leaving my poor little guy in all that pain and discomfort! He means way too much to me!! 

Have just got back from the vet. He had an injection to help flush out his system and start repairing his liver. We have another medication to administer twice a day (thats 3 different meds twice a day now!) but this one is long term and wont finish for 42 days. It is to help assist his liver recover, i really hope it doesnt taste too horrible for him!

The vet also changed his bandages and said his foot is recovering well. So that was some good news.

We just need a follow up appointment in 4 weeks and then again once we have finished the meds, assuming there are no other issues that come up in the mean time.

I am going to grab some apple cider vinegar too, the vet said it wont affect his meds so is fine to use too. Thanks for that tip guys!

In relation to the liver problems, they recommended fresh grass seed. The vet said its a natural anti-inflammatory and acts like a cleanser for the liver/kidneys. So ill be out in the garden later today trying to find some.

Anyway hopefully that is it for now. Thanks to everyone for following my thread and the many messages of support that I have received. 

Next time i post, hopefully it will be to confirm that he is back to his usual cranky old self again


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## stevechurch2222

So glad to hear he is going to get better.


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## srtiels

That is go great you are getting some answers 

If you have dandelion growing that is the best thing to five for liver problems.

Please, if you have been having yeast problems *NO* vinegar treatments. The vinegar changes the pH in the GI tract and messes up the normal intestinaml balance. Whenever vinegar is used *it must Always be followed up with probiotics* to restore the balance if the pH

If you have a health food store you might want to see if they have *Carotene* (beta-carotene) capsules. It is the natural form of Vit.A and the liver converts it to useable Vitamin A in the body.

Another thing that is very helpful for birds with liver issues is acess to either real sunlight for an hours a day (*not* thru glass, or Full Spectrum Lighting (FSL) near the cage for 1-2 hours per day.

What medications are you using. 

The *best and most effective* med. for the liver is lactulose.

*Lactulose (Cephulac)*

Lactulose acts as an osmosis retardant to the absorption of potential toxins from the GI tract. Used as a treatment with liver disease to decrease the load of metabolites that must be processed through the liver. What this does is reduce toxic potential of the blood ammonia due to liver dysfunction. 

It also acts as an appetite stimulant. 

It acidifies the intestinal contents.

It is also be effective in establishing a gastrointestinal environment that favors the growth of intestinal flora. This eliminates the need for lactobacillus supplementing. Can be used daily for weeks. If diarrhea is noted reduce the dosage.


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## MissCV

thanks for your detailed reply srtiels! it feels great to finally be treating the underlying problem, i really hope it leads to a long term solution to his many health issues.

he is currently on the following meds:
Liver treatment - Dupha Milk - 0.1 ml twice a day for 42 days
Fungal treatment - Fungilin - 0.2 ml twice a day for 10 days
Antibiotics - Clamoxyk Duo - 0.1 ml twice a day for 10 days

He is starting to appear happier and healthier. Chirping a lot more and flying around the house again. 

I still havent started the vinegar treatment. The vet did say it would be ok though. I thought it was something that most people use to treat yeast infections? But as he is already on so many meds i was still a little hesitant adding anything to his water in case he didnt drink and that would then affect his recovery anyway, so i was going to wait before I started with the vinegar treatment. You wouldnt recommend it then?

With the suggestion for Carotene (beta-carotene) capsules, how do you administer that?

Thanks again for your reply. Ill try to take him outside for some sunshine more often too!!


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## stevechurch2222

Glad to hear he's doing better.That's great news.


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## Prissysmom

I have a rescued tiel with a broken and twisted toe. If I don't keep it trimmed the nail pokes into the toe next to it and starts a sore spot. You might want to try twisting a thin strip of flannel around the perch nice and tight. That should soften it. Just make sure you have enough flannel around to replace it if he should poop on it. That's where my teil likes to sleep so it must help a little. Good luck. Seems when they hurt we hurt.


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## MissCV

I cannot believe how great everyone has been on here, thank you so very much for following and commenting on my thread! It means so much to have your support during this difficult time.

We had another bad day yesterday 

One of his toes that was bandaged has lost circulation and the bottom part of the toe is black. As soon as i noticed it, i took him straight back to the vet. While it may have been caused from the bandage, the vet is worried it is a result of blood clots from his kidney failure. So i need to monitor it to see if the flesh recovers, if it doesnt we are in serious trouble as consequences can be gangrene which would then require amputation. The vet believes amputation is not a reasonable option considering his age and health issues, so euthanasia would be her recommendation. It was such a hard thing to hear. 

I am very disappointed and sad with this conclusion. The vet has given me some kidney medication (Omega 3/6 Avian Good Oil) and topical treatment for his foot (DMSO- Trivetrin), so we are hoping this assists him in his recovery.

If the toe worsens over the next 5 days we are in serious trouble. If we are lucky and it recovers or at least remains the same, we go back to the vet in 2 weeks for a follow up.

I can tell he isnt feeling very well at the moment and i am starting to wonder if i am being cruel prolonging the situation. I am really praying that the next few days shows serious improvement otherwise I need to make some very difficult decisions.

Ill continue to keep you updated and thanks again for all of your support so far.


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## srtiels

When I have had injured toes that blackened I left them alone. Eventually they would fall of on their own.


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## sunnysmom

I'm sorry to hear about his toe. I hope it gets better. Keep us posted.


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## MissCV

Here with an update. Its been a bit of a rollercoaster the last week, so i thought i would fill you all in...

As Srtiels mentioned, his toe did fall off. Well partially. His toenail came out on Wednesday and the skin around it shrivelled up and he pick at it. So he has a little stump left . I was traumatised but after some advice (thanks Srtiels!), I came around in thinking that it wasnt as big a concern as I originally thought. 

Yesterday I rang the vet to see if she wanted to see him to check it and she said as long as the skin isnt continuing to die, only the dead skin is falling off, then there shouldnt be an issue. I should continue to put the DSMO lotion on and as it has an antibiotic, it should reduce the chances of infection. She said not to worry bringing him in if it seems ok as we will be back next week for follow up blood tests etc, so she can tend to it then if need be.

Anyway when i got home yesterday i was very pleased to see that he had been perching most of the day (his poops were in a line along his comfy, padded perch) as opposed to sitting on the floor in the corner. I was so excited. I took him out to play and he was the most active he has been in weeks (attacking all of my pantry boxes). And just to top off the day, he stayed up with us most of the night (he has previously been sleeping a lot and getting cranky if i kept him up) and when he did go to bed, he slepts on his perch! I was so happy to finally see him perched instead of on the floor. 

So fingers crossed that yesterday was just the start of a full recovery and that we dont encounter any issues with his stumpy toe. 

We had a weekend away planned which i had decided to cancel with all of his health issues recently, but as he has perked up a bit I think we might go and take him with us (still a little hesitant but my husband has been so supportive and will be very disappointed if I end up cancelling). He has a travel cage but Ill be heading to the pet store to pick up a decent sized cage for him to live in for the next 2 days. He does really great in the car (i guess he is used to it from all the trips to the vet!) so hopefully a new cage/environment for 2 nights wont add too much stress. If he does seem stressed I can always bring him straight back home i guess. What do you think?? 

Ive attached some pics... 

There is one showing his toe  (ignore the little pieces of cardboard he has everywhere)

There are also some from him playing in my pantry (its one of his favourite places) and one of his poop, cause I think it is starting to look normal again YAY! (its been runny/bubbly/watery from all the meds and issues over the last few weeks)

Anyway Ill update again once we have any more news. Again thanks for the support and comments so far... This forum has been my sanity during this stressful time!


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## sunnysmom

I'm glad to hear that he's doing well. His toe does not look bad at all. And what a pretty boy he is. I'm glad he's playing and returning to normal.


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## bjknight93

Yay! Some good news!


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## srtiels

He looks great and the toe is healing nicely....good job  And the poop is excellent!


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## MissCV

Another day, another drama it seems...

This morning, roughly 10-15 minutes after administering his meds (Dupha Milk - liver treatment and Omega 3/6 Avian Good Oil - kidney treatment), *Pookie vomited*. 

There was a lot and it was mostly undigested seeds and some wet stuff. I tried to take a photo but my phone camera couldnt focus well enough.

He flew to my husband straight after i gave him his meds, and my husband said he heard him take a big gulp, like he was swallowing the meds. But neither of us have heard him make this noise before. He continued playing as normal until he vomited. After vomiting he didnt seem any different either. I put him back in his cage to clean up and he started eating straight away. I then took him out to keep an eye on him and until i left for work he seemed fine.

Im about to call the vet and check in with them to see what they think i should do (we have an appt on Friday already), but as always you guys give me the right questions to ask, so would appreciate any feedback you have on this.

Im worried that his continued yeast infections are back to haunt him, as he has smelt a little funny since having the health issues. Kind of sickly sweet. I thought it was from the meds, but now i worry that its either a yeast of bacterial infection in his crop.

Any ideas?? Ill update once i speak to the vet anyway.


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## MissCV

Just spoke with the vets office. They said if i am worried i should bring him in earlier than Friday. But that he could have just finished eating and had a full crop when i administered his meds, and it was too much for him so that is why he vomited. She did say there could be an infection etc that caused him to vomit but they cant advise on that without a consult.

I could possibly take him in this afternoon for an appt but its very difficult with leaving work, I had already pushed my luck with my Friday appt. *So how dangerous is this? Is it something i could monitor over the next 24 hours and if he doesnt vomit again then just keep his Friday appt? Or would you suggest taking him in for an early consult??*
Is there anything else i can check to determine if there is another problem causing the vomiting??

Thanks as always for being my sounding board and wealth of knowledge!! Im really hopeful that this was a once off issue due the administering the meds too soon/quickly, but am cautious that it wouldnt take much for him to go downhill quickly so dont want to be too risky with treatment options.


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## sunnysmom

I don't have any advice. Hopefully others will come on soon that can help. But just wanted to say I hope your tiel is okay. He was doing so well. Here's hoping that it was just a full crop.


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## srtiels

If he will eat any plain yogurt than might help his gut flora. Also ginger will settle the crop. If you have any ground ginger you can lightly sprinkle it on anything he will eat. Or put a pinch of the powder on your finger and see if he will eat it a few min before you give the meds.


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## MissCV

Thanks guys.

Srtiels - do you think its something i can monitor for now then rather than rushing straight to the vet? He isnt a fan of yoghurt but ill give it a go. And is ground ginger something i can just buy from the supermarket, in the herbs/spices section?

sunnysmom - its an up and down ride with him lately. My emotions are in tatters. I appreciate your kind words and support. Fingers crossed!


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## srtiels

Yes...you can get the ground ginger from the supermarket. If it is a large grocery store po9ssibly they may have some whole ginger root in the produce section. You can also get some root and cut a piece off for his to chew on, or grate it and mix alittle in with his favorite food.

Here are the benefits of Ginger:
*Ginger:*_ (Zingiber Officinale)_In addition to the soothing effect of an upset crop (nausea) and digestive tract ginger also alleviates stress and has an invigorating effect to the body. Ginger has some antibiotic properties, and the antiseptic properties help to protect against infection. It helps alleviate gas in the crop, and also tends to lower fever. 

If he will not eat yogurt go to the drugstore and see if they have lactobacillus in capsule form. Mix 1 capsule with 1 quart of water and use for his drinking water (refrigerate the extra mixed solution) This will help the intestinal flora. It acts as a probiotic.
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*Probiotics* (what it means)

Not long ago I was researching probiotics and was dismayed to learn that it is not a word in the dictionary, but is a term comprised of 2 words: Pro meaning 'for', and biotics meaning 'life' And if you go looking in avian, animal, and human drug books the actual word probiotics is not listed. Therefore probiotics is a term used descriptively that describes a class of non prescription oral medications/supplements (such as acidophilus, lactobacillus) which are used primarily to boost the population of live bacteria in the gastrointestinal (GI) tract which flourish inside the birds digestive tract. Probiotics can be used preventively during periods of stress, such as breeding, molting, when chicks are weaning. With a sick bird, pathogens (disease-causing bacteria) take the place of the good bacteria. They consist of naturally occurring organisms that aid in digestion and inhibit the production of disease producing bacteria. Probiotics help to supplement and replace used up beneficial bacteria in the GI tract. Thus what is happening, especially after antibiotic treatment, is the replenishment of good bacteria which acts to lower inhibit the levels of bad bacteria from becoming pathogenic. Probiotics such as lactobacillus also lower the pH. 

This is beneficial when dealing with slow crop, or when yeast or bacteria is suspected. When pH is reduced this in turn increases the effectiveness of existing good flora in the GI tract. I'm also learning that one of the reasons why heat is so beneficial to sick babies is because it helps to decrease the time needed to kill harmful pathogens when antibiotic and antifungals are used.


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## MissCV

Thank you so much for your reply Srtiels!! 

I know they carry fresh ginger root so ill pick some up on my way home today. 

Hopefully if i dont see any signs of vomitting from today and he does well tonight/tomorrow then we will wait till Fridays appt. Otherwise Ill take him in tomorrow.


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## MissCV

Ok so i had my sister in law go and check on him for me. She said there were no signs of vomiting and he seemed quite happy (I could hear him talking to her over the phone).

But she did say that it didnt look like he had been eating much. She said there were only a few empty seed shells around his food dish (the cage was spotless when i left for work). 

If he poops normally tonight, is that enough to assume he is eating properly?

Ill give him his favourite foods tonight and hopefully hand feeding will encourage him to eat while i am home, along with the ginger to settle his crop.


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## srtiels

That's good that he hasn't vomited anymore. Put a piece of ginger root in the cage....maybe wedged thru the cage bar near his perch or food bowl. This way if he instinctively feels he needs it it is available.

Give him as much millet as he wants. It is an energy food and also has protein to help with maintaining his muscles for weight.


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## MissCV

Last night seemed to be a good night. Many thanks to Srtiels for the great advice!! 

He was squarking for me when i got home (secretly i love my welcome home message - not sure about the neighbours though!) and while he hadnt eaten much during the day, it seemed as though he was waiting for me because he started eating as soon as i walked through the door.

I took him out of the cage and there was no indication he had vomitted again either.

He had a nibble on the ginger root and once I had his food plate ready (pumpkin, corn, peas and seeds) he couldnt get enough of it. Then he moved onto his millet once i put him back in the cage.

I didnt give him meds last night and just left him be. 

This morning I felt his crop and it felt very small if not empty so i gave him his meds, with a little break in between the 2 doses, and he didnt vomit so fingers crossed he is ok today.

He didnt seem interested in his food this morning (after the meds) or the ginger so i just hope that he eats during the day. I pegged some ginger to his cage if he needs it during the day, but otherwise it seems like he is ok to wait until Friday for our scheduled vet appointment.

Thanks so much again for your advice Srtiels and for everyone following my thread. Ill be sure to update after our vet visit on Friday (hopefully with some good news!).


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## srtiels

It sounds like he is doing alot better. If needed he will self medicated from the ginger if he feels his body needs it.

His appetite will gradually return to normal.

Good luck with the vet visit.


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## Nicole

Oh, poor little guy  He sounds like he's improving, though.

If it's any consolation, Salmon found it difficult with meds, too. She didn't vomit, but she would often do this weird, wet cough/splutter thing. (And also run for the hills as soon as she saw the dropper bottle.) And a few months ago, my little boy, Turdie, had this period of about an hour where he vomited a few times. I took him to the vet and he ended up being fine; it was just an anomaly. (Or the suspicious looking Peace Lily plant which has been re-homed in the bathroom.) So I guess sometimes vomiting is serious and other times it's okay.

From what you've written, he sounds like he's picked up over the last few days, and hopefully on the mend. You're certainly providing all the possible care on your end. Sending him a 'scratchie'.

All the best.


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## MissCV

Another update here...

We ended up waiting and went for our Friday vet visit. I reduced his meds in the mean time so that he could stop vomitting and get back to a regular eating pattern.

Vet said his toe that fell off appears to be healing well and his bumblefoot is almost clear.

He had another blood test done and results didnt show any improvement nor any decline in relation to his liver/kidney function. So we need to continue (as much as possible) with the meds for that and go back in another months time for another blood test.

The vet also performed a crop wash as he has had a funny smell around his beak for the last few weeks (i assumed it was from the meds). Combined with the vomitting we wanted to rule out any kind of infection/bacteria. He had a slight over-growth of good bacteria but nothing too major. She prescribed a light antibiotic and more antifungal to treat it, however due to his vomitting we have held off on it for now (he only got 2 doses, and each time he vomitted).

He has lost a fair bit of weight (82 from 86) so that is my main concern along with his liver function. His appetite has slowly returned so I am returning back to the liver meds and will try to get some more antibiotic/antifungal into him in the next few days. If he continues to vomit each time I will have to stop. He has been getting lots of treats and cuddle time so hopefully it is helping him feel a little better!

Otherwise he is acting the same and being quite active and chirpy, which is nice to see. Some nights he will sleep on his perch, others on the cage floor. So he is still having his good and bad days.

Ill keep you all posted with any updates but hopefully I wont need to post again until after his next vet appointment.

Anyway thanks again for all of your comments, suggestions and support to date!! Its been very much appreciated


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## sunnysmom

I'm sorry to hear your little guy is still vomiting. It does sound like though overall he is doing better. Please keep us updated and Sunny and I will continue to send positive thoughts.


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## MissCV

^^ Thanks for your kind message of support.

He is eating heaps lately and seems back to his old self, except that he has very runny poop 9/10 times. Its also changed colour to become a light/brighter green. Its got me worried.

Im going to try to take a photo and post it up tonight to help show you all what i mean.

His diet hasnt changed any, still seed based with occassional vegie (usually when i hand feed them to him!) and he is only getting one dose of the liver med (dupha milk oil) at night each day.

If it doesnt improve by the end of this week, ill have to take him back to the vets again but is there anything else i can check for in the mean time which may help??


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## bjknight93

What part of the poop has changed color? Is he currently on medication?


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## MissCV

Sorry I couldnt get a picture of it... he just didnt want to poop on my white tissue paper last night, no matter how hard i tried. Ill try again tonight when i get home.

The actual poop itself seemed a brighter green, but the rest of it is mixing together (urine and white part). He is on Duphamilk as a med, its like an oil based liquid to treat his liver problems.

This morning he pooped and the watery part came out but the poop part stuck to his vent. 

He also is not interested in eating any of his vegies or fruit lately. Even if i try to hand feed it to him. I am getting the feeling that another vet visit is coming up sooner than expected...


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## tielfan

You can put plain white paper on the bottom of the cage and wait for him to poop on that.


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## MissCV

Final update for this thread... we had our 6 week check up at the vet on the weekend and he got the all clear!!!   

His foot has healed really well and she said she was impressed by the condition of his feet/skin. So ill continue to keep his perches wrapped in paper towel as i think its keeping the bumblefoot at bay. She said he had good colour in his feet so there doesnt appear to be any circulation issues to worry about.

He has put on 8 grams in 4 weeks so he is back up to 89grams which was his weight before all the medical issues, fantastic news! The vet said that its good weight too and not just fat as his chest felt even and there were no lumps around his keel bone. He is flying around a lot more too so she said that was a great sign that he is feeling nice and strong.

The gram stain was all clear so no fungal infections to worry about and she was happy with his poop, said it appears perfectly healthy.

The overgrowth of good bacteria in his crop appears to have settled down on its own, so no more smelly beak and as he has a healthy appetite again she said nothing to worry about on that front.

We decided not to do bloods as we did them only 4 weeks ago and as she said he seemed really healthy and happy, the only reason to take them would be to see if his liver/kidney function was consistent with results from our last visit. So rather than stress him out just to 'know' we thought it would be better to wait a few months and take a test then to see how we are tracking.

All up we are very happy and its good to have my little guy back to his old self. We will schedule a follow up appt in roughly 3-4 months and take some blood then, but until then just focus on increasing his fruit/vegie and getting regular exposure to sunlight. 

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions, support and kind words. This forum was really helpful to myself and Pookie... so to everyone that has read my very long thread, THANK YOU!!


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## stevechurch2222

Missy CV that's wonderful news,we are all so happy for you and your little guy.Glad he's getting better back to his old self that's has to be the feel good story of the day,may you have many more years with your little guy.


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## sunnysmom

I am SO happy that he's doing better. Thanks for the update.


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