# New to breeding & have some questions



## tangiroo (May 27, 2012)

Hello,
Hopefully some of you may be able to answer some of my questions. I have a pair of cockatiels who have been together for about 6 months. I adopted the male at the humane society so I'm not sure of his age and bought the female at a pet store when she was "young" so I am guessing she is between 9 months-12 months old. 

Neither cockateil is tame but they love each other. They are bonded and started mating relatively early in their relationship. They have a large indoor aviary and I put a wood cockatiel nest box on the floor of the aviary shortly after getting the second cockatiel. I didn't put in the nest box with the intention of breeding, I thought they needed a quite spot to get away from the world since our house is busy with many pets and noises so I put it on the ground because it was the best out of the way spot. 

The female laid an egg yesterday for the first time and another one today in the nest box. Both the male and female have been taking turns sitting on the eggs. Are cockateils like some other birds I'm familiar with in that they don't start incubating the eggs untill they are all laid so they will all hatch together? 

I clean their cage every day (wipe down perches, change the newspaper on the floor, clean food dishes). In order to change the newspaper I have to take the nest box out of the cage every day. I have done it twice so far, both times when both birds were out of the nest box. They didn't seem happy about it but they went back in after I was done. Is it okay to move the nest box in and out of the cage like this? I read that it is best to have the nest box high in the cage can I move it now or should I just leave it where it is? 

Also their food and water are high up towards the top of the 6 foot aviary. Do I need to also put food and water on the cage floor near the nest box? I am going to buy egg food and extra cuttlebones tomorrow to offer them in addition to their seed. Is this what I should be doing? 

I do not plan to be a cockateil breeder. This is the only clutch I am prepared to tame and rehome since it is already in progress... After this how do I get the female to stop laying eggs? Since I am pretty sure these are the first eggs the female has laid will they even hatch? Will the parents know how to take care of them? If they don't do I remove the babies from them altogether to try to feed the every 2 hours myself? 

I read about candling the eggs to see if they are fertile and also that you should leave the eggs if they are not so the female doesn't keep laying more and get weak and lose too much Calcium. If they are not fertile how long do I let them sit on them before disposing of them? I am excited about raising these baby birds and I already have potential homes for them but I am new to this and could really use some guidance. Thanks!:tiel3:


----------



## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Some cockatiels will incubate right away after the first egg is laid, some will wait until 2 or 3 or even the whole clutch is laid before incubating. 

Generally moving the nest box around is a bad idea when there are eggs or babies in the nest because this can cause the parents to abandon the nest but it seems like yours dont mind too much. The nest box is usually put up high because higher is safer to cockatiels.

After they are done with this clutch remove the nestbox, cockatiels do fine in the open and a nest box only encourages egg laying. BUT if this clutch is fertile it is often very hard to stop cockatiels from double clutching so you may have to deal with that if it happens. Here is a thread on hormone reduction techniques, http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=2678.

It depends on the birds, you wont know their parenting skills until they have babies, but if for some reason they dont feed or keep the babies warm then yes you will have to step in and either pull for hand feeding or assist feed. ( the every two hours part depends on the age of the baby)

After 5 days of incubation you can candle the eggs to see of they are fertile, a fertile egg will have red veins and an embryo, an infertile egg will be entirely yellow inside. If they are infertile leave them until the female realizes and abandons the eggs, then you can remove them.

I havent bred birds myself but I hope I helped a bit Good luck with the eggs! Also its a good idea to read all of the stickies in the breeding section, there is some excellent info on things like handfeeding, lighting and diet, crop problems and stunting, nesting material, etc


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Welcome to the group. I've edited your post to break it up into paragraphs to make it easier to read.

Some parrot species use a nest hole all year long, as a sleeping place and a hideout. Cockatiels don't do this - the only time they use a nest is when they're breeding, so putting a nest in the cage is basically a signal to start making babies. If you don't want more babies in the future you should take the nestbox out when this clutch is finished and never, ever put it back. However it's common for cockatiels to be very determined to have a second clutch right after the first one so you might not be able to stop them from laying more eggs. It's pretty easy to stop them from having a third clutch.

It's OK to move the nestbox to a higher place in the aviary and to leave the food wherever the birds are used to finding it. Wild cockatiels don't have food delivered to the nestbox so they have a natural instinct to travel away from the nest to get food. If your pair successfully raises some babies, it will be helpful to put some food on the floor of the aviary for the babies to experiment with after they've fledged.

Do you have appropriate bedding in the nestbox? The article at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27688 explains what the birds need.



> Are cockateils like some other birds I'm familiar with in that they don't start incubating the eggs untill they are all laid so they will all hatch together?


Some cockatiels wait until several eggs have been laid. Others start incubating right away. Some birds will sit in the nest next to the eggs for several days before they actually start sitting on them, so you can't be sure they're incubating unless you actually see them sitting on top of the egg.



> Since I am pretty sure these are the first eggs the female has laid will they even hatch? Will the parents know how to take care of them? If they don't do I remove the babies from them altogether to try to feed the every 2 hours myself?


Your female is very young, and the general advice is to not breed a hen that's younger than 18 months old. A bird that's fully mature has better-developed breeding instincts so there's a better chance that the first clutch will be successful.

Sometimes parent birds know what to do the first time around and sometimes they don't. The eggs might or might not hatch, depending on whether they're fertile and whether the parents incubate them properly. If babies hatch, you'll need to keep a careful eye on the situation and intervene if the parents don't take proper care of the babies. There is a lot of useful information on this forum that you can read to help prepare yourself. So please check out everything that looks relevant in the breeding stickies and also read new threads that look like they might be educational.



> ? I am going to buy egg food and extra cuttlebones tomorrow to offer them in addition to their seed. Is this what I should be doing?


Egg food and cuttlebone are good, but your birds need more in their diet than those things and seed. The sticky at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27479 talks about the best diet for a cockatiel. If you're located in the US or Canada, it would be best to buy some cockatiel-size Nutriberries ASAP. Breeding birds need extra nutrition for themselves and for their babies, but it can be difficult to convince cockatiels to eat things like vegetables and pellets if they've never had them before. Nutriberries are equivalent to pellets and it usually isn't too hard to convince cockatiels to eat them.

Egg food is actually intended more for insect-eating birds, and cockatiels are seed-eaters. So it isn't necessary to buy egg food, and if you do get it you should keep the quantity small. I don't buy it for my breeding birds. Instead I cook a scrambled egg in the microwave, chop it in pieces, freeze it, and take out a small amount (maybe half a teaspoon a day) to give to the parent birds. Eggs are nutritious but excessive amounts can cause problems. When my birds aren't breeding they get egg only twice a week - about a teaspoonful to be shared by 12 birds.



> If they are not fertile how long do I let them sit on them before disposing of them?


The usual advice is to leave the eggs in there until the parents lose interest in them. But if you're confident that the eggs aren't fertile, you can remove the nest and eggs, rearrange the perches, dishes, toys, etc to make the aviary look as different as possible, and start on the long nights treatment - that's 12 to 14 hours of uninterrupted darkness every night, to make the parents think it's fall/winter and therefore not a good time to breed. There's more information on hormone reduction techniques at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=2678


----------



## tangiroo (May 27, 2012)

Thank you both for your replies, they helped a lot! 
With the Nutriberries do I add them in addition to their regular seed diet or in exchange for it? 
The bedding in the nest box right now is burlapp which has been taken apart (I also have finches and I had big problems with the store bought nesting material that got wrapped around their toes and cut off circulation, so I did some research and burlapp what what was suggested). Since the burlapp isn't what is recommended for cockateils is it okay to just switch it out now while they are nesting?
They are really cute. I just saw the male looking in the nest box at the female and wolf whistling at her! 
Thanks for the direction and I will be reading the posts that are already up. I am so happy to have found this forum!


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

You would give nutriberries in addition to seeds. Birds need a variety of foods so they can choose the items that they need the most at a particular time. Please also start introducing them to vegetables and other soft foods like organic multi-grain bread and homegrown sprouts - see http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=9019 for more info on sprouting. There might not be enough time for them to learn to eat this stuff before the eggs hatch, but it's worth a try. If they actually hatch out any babies, the soft foods will be easier for the babies to digest. 

You can go ahead and put wood shavings in the nest now. The tiels will probably like it better than the burlap! Part of the male's job is to make a little hollow bowl in the shavings to hold the eggs, and it's probably difficult for him to do that with burlap. BTW I'm glad that you actually have something in the nest - so many newbie breeders don't know they're supposed to put anything at all in there.


----------



## tangiroo (May 27, 2012)

* Confused by males behavior*

So today the nest has 3 eggs in it. The female was in the nest box and I asked her nicely to leave while I changed the nesting material to wood shavings. Once she was out of the nest box she went up to the food to eat but the male wouldn't let her. I have food in two different spots so she went over to the other spot but he chased her away from it too. Her continued to chase her around the cage agressively until she went back into the nest box. What the heck?? Does anyone know whats going on? Thanks!


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

He's telling her to get back in the nest and keep the eggs warm. If he won't let her feed it might be necessary to take him out of the cage long enough for her to eat and then put him back in.

Buster and Shodu went through something similar with their first clutch. It's primarily the male's job to sit on the eggs during the daytime, and Buster was doing it. But every now and then he needed to come out and get something to eat, and he would viciously chase Shodu until she went in the nest to get away from him. Then he would eat and peacefully go back in the nest, and Shodu could come out whenever she wanted to. Now Shodu automatically goes in the nest when Buster comes out and there's no more fighting.


----------



## tangiroo (May 27, 2012)

Thanks. They now both hang out in the nest box together almost all the time. I am a little worried because I only saw them for about 10 minutes today (at different times). I've noticed that the female has really runny stools which only started with her the last few days. I think I am going to take her to the vet. Is it okay to do this or will it upset her (and her mate, he goes out of control car alarm yelling crazy when she can't be found) too much? They both aren't eating nearly as much as they used too and I'm thinking that maybe this whole breeding thing is a bad idea. I'd much rather have my cockatiels be healthy than risk their health by breeding them too young. I just want to do what is right for them.


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The stress of breeding can sometimes make minor low-level medical problems spiral out of control. It would be a good idea to talk to the vet and get his/her advice on whether they want to see the bird or if they prefer to not cause a disturbance while the birds are nesting. It might be possible to bring in a poop sample for testing instead of bringing in the actual bird, or to email pictures of the poop to the vet. You can also post pictures here to see what the other members have to say about it.

The usual poop habit of nesting birds is to hold the poop in while the bird is sitting in the nest, then to make a massive and often smelly poop when the bird comes out of the nest. Some birds will refuse to poop inside the breeding cage at all, and need to be taken out of the cage periodically so they can poop.


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

A picture of the poop would help, as egg poops tend to be super runny and gross.


----------



## tangiroo (May 27, 2012)

Thanks, I will post one as soon as I can get a picture. Tomorrow I will call my vet too. What about not eating much? I don't think I've seen her eat in the last couple of days and their food dishes don't look like they have been eating. The only thing I've seen the male eat is spray millet these last few days. The male didn't go in the nest box at all today or last night. The female is in the box all the time. I just put some food and water in a dish right outside the nestbox, should I put some in the nestbox also? She has laid 4 eggs now. I candled them and 3 look fertile. The one laid most recently in just clear. Gosh, I didn't know how worrisome out this whole thing was going to be!!!


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Don't put food in the box. Blow on the food bowl, the empty husks will blow off and it'll show that she's eating. You can't watch her 24/7 so she's probably eating you just aren't seeing it.


----------



## tangiroo (May 27, 2012)

*Pictures*

Hello,
I have attached a few pictures. One is of her poop, the others of the cage. Yesterday I moved the nest box from the bottom of the cage to the top. I also added a UV light. Because she couldn't figure out how to get in the nest box with the top closed with the new perch arrangement (she tried for about 2 hours), I opened the top of the nest box. She immediately went in. I kept it open because I wanted her to get exposed to the UV light when I turned it on. Also because she comes out more now and I'm hoping she will be more inclined to eat and drink. Is it okay to keep it the nest box top open like it is in the picture? 
Thank you!!


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Is that red thing part of a pellet? If so her poop is normal egg poop. If they're comfortable with the top open then there's no reason to close it.


----------



## tangiroo (May 27, 2012)

Great, thanks you have put my mind at ease!


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It's OK to leave the nestbox open if that's what the parents are comfortable with, but I would recommend not shining the UV light directly into the open box. Cockatiels evolved to have their eggs and babies in a dark hole with no UV light, and I don't know whether exposure to UV light could cause any problems for the eggs. Hatched-out babies have a lot of exposed skin and might be at risk for sunburn from UV light.


----------

