# Weaning Help...



## melly (Dec 28, 2010)

As some of you would have read in the introduction section, I have an unweaned baby cinnamon pearl.

Right now I'm tube feeding it (I have a syringe with a rubber tubing attached to the tip) 4 times a day, 10ml each feed.

Its about 44 days old. It won't eat from a spoon or touch any of the adult food I have put in its tank (mainly pellets, seeds and a mix of oats, etc.). It will touch millet but it doesn't really eat it.

How do I start weaning it? I wanna wean it but not starve it...










Still living in a fish tank, have taken out the perch...


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## Kevin D. (Dec 29, 2010)

By day 44, they should be eating some seed on there own.He looks very healthy and happy. You said you are feeding it 4 times a day? I would cut down to 3-2 times a day. I htink what is happining is that you are feeding him too much, and so he is not motivated to eat. try cutting him back on one feeding, and see how he does.


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## melly (Dec 28, 2010)

Kevin D. said:


> By day 44, they should be eating some seed on there own.He looks very healthy and happy. You said you are feeding it 4 times a day? I would cut down to 3-2 times a day. I htink what is happining is that you are feeding him too much, and so he is not motivated to eat. try cutting him back on one feeding, and see how he does.


Yeah I feed it 4 times a day...so if i cut it down to 3 or 2, do i still give 10ml each time? Or should I still feed it 4 times a day and slowly eliminate a feed from 10ml to 0ml? I try to not feed it, like skip a meal...but his crop goes down so much and he cries for food. I don't like that, its like i'm ill treating it :wacko:.

Also I changed the food bowl in its tank to something shorter so it can reach, it seems to be nipping at the food :thumbu:! But not totally eating like the rest of my birds...but its a good start...

So do I eliminate totally or gradually eliminate a feed?

p/s: this is the first bird I have hand fed...sorry if my questions sound silly...


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## amue155 (Oct 13, 2010)

When I raise babies, by the time they are of age of fledging (the first flight) they will be moved into a cage and will be fed millet and a weaning food with zupreem in a seperate dish. I use a weaning food with no sun flower seeds, babies dont know how to open them, nor do they have the skilled beak to do so with such a large seed, I use a type of "browns" natural tiel formula as weaning food but anything with high numbers of small seeds will do, like budgie food. If i use sun seeds they just seem to throw them about, play more than eat them. A normal tiel seed mix can be added after they are around 3 months. If i were you, i would make sure he always has millet available to him, you may think hes not eating much of it but i bet you he is. cutting down on 3 feedings a day is also a good idea. At 44 days he should have fledged and only have a couple weeks or so until he is fully weaned. 
Bottom line, i would cut back to at least 3 feedings a day and make sure he has millet sprays at all times. He should eat more on his own, also have a water source so he figures out how to water himself as well. Dont worry about the crying, Ive had babies that cry after they are weaned.


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## melly (Dec 28, 2010)

Hey amue155, thanks for the tip.

I just fed it its afternoon feed, but I gave it only 9mls (I thought of eliminating the feed slowly). Now its eating a little of the seeds and pellet mix I have in the tank.

I always have fresh water, food and a spray of millet in its tank. I also wash out the tank and sanitise it at each feed, just in case bacteria builds up and the baby gets sick.

I don't have a feeding schedule to work with, but I researched online and saw a schedule for babies that are 25 - 34 days, feeding times @ 7am, 5pm & 11pm. I thought of using this schedule (babies that are 35 - 44 days old should be fed twice, 7am and 7pm...which is what I should be feeding my baby right now ).

The question is......if the baby's crop is empty...but its not time for its feed...can it last without food until the next feed? How many hours can it last without food in its crop?

Because when I last fed it at 12am last night and woke up at 7am, its crop was not filled. And I read that its not very good to have the bird's crop totally drained...So about 7 hours would fully deplete its crop...can it go longer than 7 hours?

Or is 10ml not enough? Because the site that I refer to states 11 to 15ccs per feed...http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:jCeMpsyA4qAJ:www.cockatiel.org/articles/handfeeding.html+cockatiel+feeding+schedule&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=sg

Please help me


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Ok...at that age and the amount and frequency that you are feeding you are risking slow crop problems, secondary yeast probelms, and a bird that will keep on wanting to be handfed til it is 4 months or older.

Below is something I saved on my computer that I use for postings so that I don't have to type it out each time.
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Re: wean babies 

At the age your bird is it should be being handfed 3 times a day....so plan a sbhedule that is 6-6-12. This means that there is 6 hours between 2 feedings and 12 hours (between night and morning) between the last.

Do you have a scales that weighs in grams? If not get one. You want to make sure the baby is maintaining weight or gaining. 

What I do is print out a calendar month and in each both write when I pulled and time, and how much fed. If I know weight I include that too. You can do a calendar page for each baby.

I normally pull my babies at 3.5 to 4 weeks of age. 

*I start them on 3 feedings a day, 8cc morning, 5-6cc lunch, and 8cc night.* The reason why so little is because at this age their crop has shrunk considerably because the parents have already reduced the amount fed.

They are in a big container with pine shavings, with half of the top covered. If they are fully feathered there is no need for heat…room temps are fine.

I place a small bowl with seed, and sprinkle some on the bedding near the bowl. I also place millet in with them. 

It takes them approx a week to explore and start nibbling. The container should be big enough for them to walk around, explore, and flap wings for exercise.

I write down every day how much I feed per feeding and amount.

Once I start seeing them nibble on millet seed, I will daily decrease the middle feeding by 1cc, and then down to 0cc), skip the middle feeding. 

When they are down to 2 feeding a day, I will move them to a cage.
By then I introduce greens, veggies (separate dish) during their skipped lunch feeding time. 

Once I see them nibbling eating more, then I daily decrease the morning feeding down 1cc per day. Once down to 0, then they are down to 1 feeding (night) a day.

I wait a day or so and then start decreasing the nighttime feeding by 1cc a day. When I get down to it reduced to 2-3cc many times they are starting to refuse the formula. If they still want formula hold it at 2-3cc for a week or so, feeling their crop to make sure they also have food in there from trying to eat on their own. 

Once I finally get to where I am no longer hand-feeding I will make sure that at the normal nighttime feeding I change out food and water so that they have fresh, and give more millet or other treats they will eat. At their normal bedtime I feel the base of the crop to make sure I can feel food in it. A young tiel will pack its crop at night with food to digest during the night. This goes on for a few weeks before I can consider them weaned.

Sorry,...it sounds long and confusing. But if you write your daily feedings on a calendar it makes it easy. And it is far better to slowly taper down a feeding than to cold turkey skip a feeding.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Because when I last fed it at 12am last night and woke up at 7am, its crop was not filled. And I read that its not very good to have the bird's crop totally drained...So about 7 hours would fully deplete its crop...can it go longer than 7 hours?

Or is 10ml not enough? Because the site that I refer to states 11 to 15ccs per feed...http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=sg

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The info in that lin as to amounts is outdfated and probably close to 15 years old. Anything over 10cc is excessive. When you first pull a chick and are in doubt of what to feed then weigh it on a grams scales and feed 10% of body weight.

I have learned from handfeeding alot of tiel babies it is best to let them *empty between* *every feeding.* A baby is fine for an hour or two empty. It is when they don't empty between feedings that is an alert to a developing problem.


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## melly (Dec 28, 2010)

srtiels said:


> Ok...at that age and the amount and frequency that you are feeding you are risking slow crop problems, secondary yeast probelms, and a bird that will keep on wanting to be handfed til it is 4 months or older.
> 
> Below is something I saved on my computer that I use for postings so that I don't have to type it out each time.
> ------------------------------------------
> ...


Thanks for the information. I have just printed two calendars for the month of Dec and Jan 2011. I will monitor its morning and evening weights, I have planned the feeds for 9am, 3pm & 9pm.

It has started eating here and there (millet and pellet mix), so I will start from next week to reduce 1cc per day from the middle feed until 0cc.

I just weighed my baby before its last feed and its a 100 grams. Should I do the 10% thing or follow your feeding amounts of 8cc - 5-6cc - 8cc?

Do you have/happen to know when would babies be weaned and their weight they should be at certain ages? Like a table of information?

About moving it to a cage, I tried it in a cage today and its quite clumsy. Is it okay if I let it be in the cage during the day and in a tank when its bedtime? Also, the mesh at the bottom of the cage is too wide for its feet to walk on and often would see it stepping on the tray lining. Should I cover up the mesh with bbq mesh? Or let it learn? I'm afraid it might break its legs...


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Should I do the 10% thing or follow your feeding amounts of 8cc - 5-6cc - 8cc?
====================================

At this age I would go with the 8cc-5-6cc-8ss, and start tapering down the middle (lunch) feeding. I have found that less is more. This means that the body is not continously (sp) working on digesting food, which can take away from weight gain. When fed less the body is not constantly working to digest, and it can better utilize the food into muscle mass and growth.

In the cage during the day, and the tank at night is fine. Lower the perches in your cage. You can cover part of the cage floor with newpaper. Then you can sprinkle a little seed/food on the newpaper. Clip the millet close to where the food dishes are. Water is not important now because the baby is getting fluids from the formula. Once the chick is down to 1 feeding you can introduce a water dish.

There is no set weaning weight for birds. Since your is at 100 grams...it should remain that weight. I might drop down a few grams as it is being reduced on feeding, but it should go back up to 100 grams and possibly wean out at 110 or more.


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## melly (Dec 28, 2010)

srtiels said:


> Should I do the 10% thing or follow your feeding amounts of 8cc - 5-6cc - 8cc?
> ====================================
> 
> At this age I would go with the 8cc-5-6cc-8ss, and start tapering down the middle (lunch) feeding. I have found that less is more. This means that the body is not continously (sp) working on digesting food, which can take away from weight gain. When fed less the body is not constantly working to digest, and it can better utilize the food into muscle mass and growth.
> ...


Thanks for helping me out. One thing I did today or it's morning feed @ 9am (morning weight 100grams) was to try and feed it without the rubber tubing. I was very very very careful not to dispense more than it could handle, so I dispensed tiny drops enough for it to taste it's food. Of course food went everywhere because the baby was flicking food everywhere, tube feeding is much neater and it goes straight to it's crop. Plus it didn't really respond, like it wasn't hungry; last feed the day before was 12am.

However, after feeding it a while with the syringe w/o tube, it sneezed. And I saw a tiny bead of food on it's left side of it's nostril. Could it have inhaled the formula? I gave like about 1.5cc of food and then it sneezed. So I tube fed the remainder.

Now it's in it's tank preening and all and I hear an occasional sneeze (twice to be exact, but I wasn't looking so I won't know if it was a sneeze or not). Now it's done preening an it's trying to sleep with a leg up.

So did it inhale formula or not? I'm so worriedddd! Should have just tube fed. Was worried that if I kept tube feeding it, it will not wean. It's also not interested in a spoon...

Help...


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## melly (Dec 28, 2010)

srtiels said:


> Should I do the 10% thing or follow your feeding amounts of 8cc - 5-6cc - 8cc?
> ====================================
> 
> At this age I would go with the 8cc-5-6cc-8ss, and start tapering down the middle (lunch) feeding. I have found that less is more. This means that the body is not continously (sp) working on digesting food, which can take away from weight gain. When fed less the body is not constantly working to digest, and it can better utilize the food into muscle mass and growth.
> ...


Thanks for helping me out. One thing I did today for its morning feed @ 9am (morning weight 100grams) was to try and feed it without the rubber tubing. I was very very very careful not to dispense more than it could handle, so I dispensed tiny drops enough for it to taste its food. Of course food went everywhere because the baby was flicking food everywhere, tube feeding is much neater and it goes straight to its crop. Plus it didn't really respond to the syringe, like it wasn't hungry; last feed the day before was 12am.

However, after feeding it a while with the syringe w/o tube, it sneezed. And I saw a tiny bead of food on its left side of its nostril. Could it have inhaled the formula? I gave like about 1.5cc of food and then it sneezed. So I tube fed the remainder.

Now it's in its tank preening and all and I hear an occasional sneeze (twice to be exact, but I wasn't looking so I won't know if it was a sneeze or not). Now it's done preening an its sleeping with a leg up.

So did it inhale formula or not? I'm so worriedddd! I should have just tube fed. Was worried that if I kept tube feeding it, it will not wean. It's also not interested in a spoon...should I bring it to the vet?

Help...


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...if it is used to tube feeding continue with the tube. This is what I use for tube feeding cockatiel chicks: http://www.innovetpet.com/products3cbig.php

Here are some illustrations on how to hold the head, which can greatly reduce the risk of aspiration, and also eliminate a messy face from the formula. I am left-handed so you would just reverse the position of the hand holding the head. CLICK on each pix for a larger veiw. If you have a health food store or a Whole Foods near you, get some Brewers Yeast (BY) and some Carotene. You would add just a dash of Brewers Yeast, and a little less than 1/4 capsule of the carotene to each feeding. The BY helps with stress and has several good nutrients. The carotene is supportive of respiratory problem. IN addition if you have some garlic powder (NOT garlic salt) put a pinch in every feedinf up til they are weaned. it is supportive of suspected respiratory problems, and helps boost the immune system.

If there is food in the nostrils, you can take a syringe, place the tip flush to the nostril, and pull the plunger back to try and suck it out.

*And some just in case info*. If you suspect a baby has swallowed the formula the wrong way and is gasping.._*act quick...*_Place your mouth over its entire beak up to the nostril, blow a quick *gentle breath into the birds mouth.* This will clear out the airways so that it can breathe. And give the supportive supplements mentioned above for a week to 10 days.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

You should have no problems with it weaning if it is tube fed. I have handfed several thousand cockatiels with a tube for years, and learned that the daily reducing formula is the best way to steer them towards weaning. Tube fed babies are just as social as syringe fed babies. What I like was I also always had the cleanest and nicest babies of all the local breeders.

Another tip...*don't clip* your babies until they are weaned. As long as they have their wings they have better coorination in the cage and are less likely to break off their tails. Breaking the tails does not cause a health problem, but it looks so awful and makes the onlooker or unknowledgable person think you are a poor or irresponcible breeder.


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## melly (Dec 28, 2010)

Ok thanks...I didn't breed this baby, I bought it. So it's wings are already clipped...

Can we use carrots to substitue for the carotene? Doubt I can find it where I live. And garlic powder? The McCormick kinds for cooking? Brewers yeast for baking?

Are these safe to use? I read garlic is a no no for parrots and brewers yeast causes yeast in parrots...sorry I'm very new to parrot keeping and I'm not a breeder...just someone who really loves her pets...


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

_*Are these safe to use? I read garlic is a no no for parrots and brewers yeast causes yeast in parrots...sorry I'm very new to parrot keeping and I'm not a breeder...just someone who really loves her pets...*_
*-----------------------------------------*

Bullcrap, and their is too much misinformation on the internet.

_*Can we use carrots to substitue for the carotene? Doubt I can find it where I live. And garlic powder? The McCormick kinds for cooking? Brewers yeast for baking?
*_
Do you have a GNC in your area, they might have some carotene capsules. If not using 1/2 tsp. of babyfood carrots and mix in with the formula. The McCormick garlic powder is fine. The Brewers Yeast for baking is not the same. Try your local pharmacy to see if they have Brewers Yeast. it will probably be in tablet form. if so, crush the the table to a powder, and use approx 1/4 of the crushed tablet in the feeding.


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## melly (Dec 28, 2010)

srtiels said:


> _*Are these safe to use? I read garlic is a no no for parrots and brewers yeast causes yeast in parrots...sorry I'm very new to parrot keeping and I'm not a breeder...just someone who really loves her pets...*_
> *-----------------------------------------*
> 
> Bullcrap, and their is too much misinformation on the internet.
> ...


Yes we have GNC!!!! :clap: However, I did a check on the website. They have brewer's yeast but it's very expensive and comes in 500 tablet quantities...they also have beta carotene, but they are soft gel capsules, how do I feed that? (Should i stick with baby carrot food? Organic or normal?) But the beta carotene is alot cheaper and has only 100 tablets...garlic powder, I only have to give it a pinch right?

1/2 tsp baby carrot food
A pinch of garlic powder

Correct? Treat for a period of 7 to 10 days?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

1/2 tsp baby carrot food
A pinch of garlic powder

Correct? Treat for a period of 7 to 10 days?
------------------------------------------------

Yes...the above is right. Organic or regular baby food carrots are fine. The gel-caps of Carotene are messy, and don't really dissolve well in the formula.

OK...check GNC to see if they have it in the powdered form like the can I posted. It should say that it is granuales (sp) The can is a little larger than a coffee can, and costs approx $11-12 It is great for people too. When you feel stressed or tied eat a tsp. of it and it makes you feel better within 10 min. It is great sprinkled on salads, on scrambled eggs, added to soups. So it can be used in the kitchen to give foods a nice nutty flavor. I even sprinkle some on the greens for the babies I am handfeeding. And when there is a change in weather or when the bird is molting it helps reduce stress of change.

If you know of anyone that is plaqued with hot flashes and night sweats it is a GREAT deterent to then....by eating a tsp. several times a day, and when you feel one coming on. Within a month it helps to just about eliminate hot flashes.


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## melly (Dec 28, 2010)

srtiels said:


> OK...check GNC to see if they have it in the powdered form like the can I posted. It should say that it is granuales (sp) Thge can is a little large than a coffee can, and costs approx $11-12 It is great for people to. When you feel stressed or tied eat a tsp. of it and it makes you feel better within 10 min. If is great sprinkled on salads, on scrambled eggs, added to soups. So it can be used in the kitchen to give foods a nice nutty flavor. I even sprinkle some on the greens for the babies I am handfeeding. And when there is a change in weather or when the bird is molting it helps reduce stress of change.
> 
> If you know of anyone that is plaqued with hot flashes and night sweats it is a GREAT deterent to then....by eating a tsp. several times a day, and when you feel one coming on. Within a month it helps to just about eliminate hot flashes.


Are you talking about beta carotene or brewer's yeast? Brewer's yeast right? Sorry for the silly question...:blush:


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes...the Brewers Yeast.


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## melly (Dec 28, 2010)

Quick question srtiels...today I fed my bird only twice (today is the first day without its middle feed). I fed it 5ml/cc for its first feed. It was still 100g before its first feed. Then it didnt have a middle feed, because I didn't give any. But when it was time for its last feed, I realized that its crop was slightly filled with millet seeds. I touched it and it felt like there was alot of millet in there. I was in a dilemma because I didn't know if I should give it its last feed of 5ml/cc (could it be weaned already?) So I decided to give it only 2ml/cc (because I wanted to give it its vitamins and probiotics). Last feed weight was also 100g.

My question is, if this happens the next time...should I even give it its last feed? Or should I stop handfeeding totally since its already eating more on its own? In 6 days time it would be two months old.

I also have transferred it from a small carrier cage to a bigger cage, but its more clumsy in there but its moving about steadily and cautiously...it should be ok in the bigger cage right? The other cage is alittle too small for it.

Help please  thanks in advance!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

If it refuses the syringe when you offer it food, then skip the feeding. if it wants a little formula, feed, it and each day off some reducing the amount when you feel the seed in the crop.

it sounds like they are just about weaned.

NOTE: Even though for a few days if the baby refuses food, feel the crop, and just show it an empty syringe...if interested then mix and feed a little formula, if not then don't feed. Do this for a week to 10 days to be sure it is refusing formula and eating on it's own. I ususally wait 2-3 weeks when I stop handfeeding a baby to consider it weaned or for sale if selling.


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## melly (Dec 28, 2010)

srtiels said:


> If it refuses the syringe when you offer it food, then skip the feeding. if it wants a little formula, feed, it and each day off some reducing the amount when you feel the seed in the crop.
> 
> it sounds like they are just about weaned.
> 
> NOTE: Even though for a few days if the baby refuses food, feel the crop, and just show it an empty syringe...if interested then mix and feed a little formula, if not then don't feed. Do this for a week to 10 days to be sure it is refusing formula and eating on it's own. I ususally wait 2-3 weeks when I stop handfeeding a baby to consider it weaned or for sale if selling.


This morning, its crop was empty. Fed it 5ml of formula. It takes two feeds a day now, 12 hours in between each feed. Now it's almost time for its second feed and its crop is full with millets again. Looks like I can slowly eliminate its second feed? Since during the day it'll be eating millets and during the night it sleeps thus its crop is empty by morning? Ok to do that?

I gave it 2ml of formula last night, I should continue to give 2ml? Because when I feel it's crop, it's hard...but doesn't reject the syringe when I show it to him/her...

By next week, I can do away with its second feed? Because by evening it's full of millets...

Also, it only eats millets and hardly touches my pellet and seed mix. Should I put loose millet seeds in the pellet mix to encourage it to eat from there?

Weaning has given me a big headache! Now I know why they say get a weaned bird...safer for the bird, lesser of a headache for the owner...


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...what I would do now is start to taper off and skip the nightime feeding when you feel a wad of food in the crop. Change food and water etc. in the cage a 1/2 hour to 1 hour before you offer the morning feeding. If the bird eats and you feel food in the crop then very gradually reduce the morning amount and skip.

Yes...weaning tiels can be nerve taxing at times. 

I also breed mousebirds, and I am finding that I am bad on weaning them and handfeed them way past when they should normally be weaned. I have one that is almost a year old (been weaned for months)and if I show her a syringe she will open her mouth wide and want some. She is starting to go to nest, and I told my husband that I will probably have to handfeed her so that she will feed the babies...LOL...grrr.


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## melly (Dec 28, 2010)

srtiels said:


> OK...what I would do now is start to taper off and skip the nightime feeding when you feel a wad of food in the crop. Change food and water etc. in the cage a 1/2 hour to 1 hour before you offer the morning feeding. If the bird eats and you feel food in the crop then very gradually reduce the morning amount and skip.
> 
> Yes...weaning tiels can be nerve taxing at times.
> 
> I also breed mousebirds, and I am finding that I am bad on weaning them and handfeed them way past when they should normally be weaned. I have one that is almost a year old (been weaned for months)and if I show her a syringe she will open her mouth wide and want some. She is starting to go to nest, and I told my husband that I will probably have to handfeed her so that she will feed the babies...LOL...grrr.


I will follow your tips  thanks!

A soft heart and a wailing bird, just some of the things that spoils our birds rotten!

Thanks srtiels for your help! Much is appreciated!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

LOL...tiel babies are the worst. They could be full and they will stand there, feet planted, eyes sqinched closed, head bobbing up and down begging for more... They are masters at looking and sounding so pitiful and starved


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