# Vet appointment



## Payton Leeroy (Sep 10, 2012)

So Little Dragon is now scheduled to go visit what appears to be the only bird vet in Montana tomorrow. I've told them that he definately needs a nail trim, along with a general look over to make sure he seems to be doing okay. Is there anything else in particular that I should make sure the vet checks on? Overall he seems to be doing much better now that he's getting food and water and has room to move around, and I'm hoping that the nail trim will possibly help him strengthen his grip, though I may talk to the vet about that too.

Can you microchip birds? I know they can get leg bracelets, but I'm not sure I'm willing to risk him getting it caught on stuff. I would like him to have identification, though I'm not planning on ever risking him with being outside without either a harness [once he's no longer afraid of hands] or being in a cage/kennel.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Hi,

This thread has some helpful info on vets for birds. http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27415

I also think you will probably want to have some type of diagnostic testing done, like a gram stain, to make sure things are okay with your tiel since it's your first vet visit.

As for the leg bands, I believe those are put on by the breeder when the tiel is young. I'm not familiar with vets, etc. putting them on when they're older but I could be wrong.

I'm glad you're getting your tiel checked out. Good luck on your first vet visit.


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## Payton Leeroy (Sep 10, 2012)

Well, after him living outside for a few days it seemed like it really was the best option. The poor guy's going to hate it though, he'll probably enjoy the car ride well enough, but actually getting his nails clipped and all of the exam done is going to stress him out a ton, which is sad, because we've been making some great progress on his socialization. He still doesn't like hands, but he will take food from them, and he'll step onto a branch and then onto my shoulder and give me kisses and snuggle. A little worried that the vet trip will set us back a little, but in the long run it will be for the best...

I do know that I won't be taking him to the other vet who's super big in town about taking all animals, because he gave me bad information on my hamsters that had me cleaning out their scent glands every day, just because they look a little like a pussy wound. Took a lot of reading up on stuff for me to finally figure it out when taking them to a vet who claims to know how to deal with small animals should have solved the issue right away... Poor hamsters are SO much happier now that I'm not scruffing them to clean them out every day now.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Situation of Little Dragon filled me with sadness, anger (a huge amount of it actually) and joy. 

I am so happy that your friend was engaged enough to take the bird and you provide a good, loving home to sweet Little Dragon  Kudos for taking him to a proper vet for a check up. 

I also recommend a gram stain. It is easy and gives a general idea of possible infection if there is one. You could also ask what to feed him for him to gain his weight and strength. (Interestingly, my avian vet told me that the hills a/d cat food is safe for birds and I could mix some with warm water to give it enough warmth and liquidity to pass through a syringe/crop feeder to feed my recovering birds) 

Good luck


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I understand being a little worried about the vet visit. But as you pointed out, it's in your tiel's best interest. One thing I suggest is making sure your vet lets you stay with your tiel during the exam. The first vet we took Sunny to whisked him away from me before I could stop him and I literally was in tears listening to Sunny scream for me. For that and other reasons, we changed vets. The second vet we took Sunny to had much more bird experience than the first. I was so worried about taking Sunny back to the vet, and this time having testing done because he was traumatized for days after the first vet visit. It was amazing how well the visit went with the new vet. Sunny never made a peep. Sat on the vet tech's shoulder and even took a nap on mine while waiting for his test results. Expect your tiel to be tired when it's all done as I think it kind of wears them out a little but all in all he should be fine. And it's better to make sure he's healthy.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The bigger birds can be microchipped, but the chips are too big for small birds including cockatiels.

Closed bands are put on when the bird is a baby, and in adulthood the only way to get the band off is to cut off either the band or the foot (ack!). There are open bands that can be crimped onto the leg in adulthood, but I think they're supposed to be an even bigger risk for getting caught on things. 

The band isn't like a dog tag that says "If you find me call my owner at 123-4567". It's just an ID number, and if you managed to locate someone who found your bird you could tell them the number to prove he was yours. An alternate ID method would be to take photos of any distinguishing marks that he has to prove that he's your bird.


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## Payton Leeroy (Sep 10, 2012)

I'm hoping to be able to teach him to at least say my name or phone number, or his name if nothing else. Been getting a lot of photos of him, so that won't be an issue. Not too surprised that he's too small to be microchipped. There are even health concerns with doing it to a horse after all.

I think I'll have the vet check out his feet while she's doing the nail trim, just because he seems to have a weak grip to me, and I suspect that they're pretty beat up, as all he had were dowels with sand paper on them. Not sure if there's much I can do for them now beyond the many kinds of different perches he has and keeping them clean and everything, but a vet would be the one to check with.

I'm such a mean mom though! I put his food in the exact opposite corner from his favorite perch so he has to go all the way around the cage to get his food, then all the way back to get to the perch! He seems to be getting better at it, and he's even doing a little bit of playing/chewing on the hemp rope I used to tie his toys to his cage! He hasn't figured out the egg craty foraging place yet though, so hopefully keeping his food bowl low will encourage him to try and explore and learn that each of the little egg cups has a different mix of food and such. Maybe some day he'll even figure out how to go from inside his cage to outside and from outside to inside... So far his cage door has been open since I put him in and he hasn't switched from one to the other once unless I'm the one who moves him...


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

You're not a mean mom. Forced use is actually the most effective form of rehabilitation there is.  At work we put stroke patients' good arm in a mitt or sling so they have to practice using the weaker one. Your setup is a great idea -- just make sure you aren't pushing him beyond his physical limits while he is still recovering. 

Weak grip may be the result of malnutrition, as well as from being in the very small cage. It also may never be normal, although it will probably improve. My rescue 'tiel spent the first four years of her life with two other birds in a 12"x12" parakeet cage. When I adopted her, she could barely even perch, and couldn't climb at all. She's much more mobile now, but I think she'll always have somewhat impaired motor skills and balance. 

I agree with getting gram stains at the vet, and you may want to have bloodwork done also, to see if the poor cage and bad diet may have caused organ dysfunction. If it did, you'll want to know this so that you can make dietary adjustments and help him get back into good health. Of course, you don't want him to go into shock on this appointment either, so discuss this with your vet and just take the appointment as it goes. The vet should be able to draw blood from a toenail clip -- Some vets will try to insist on using sedation to draw blood from the neck vein, but I am not personally a fan of that procedure. 

I don't think taking him to the vet should set you back in terms of gaining his trust, especially if the vet is the one handling him at the appointment and not you. He may even look to you as his ally after that experience, and trust you more.

Good luck, and please update us tomorrow! He's so lucky he found his way to you.


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## Payton Leeroy (Sep 10, 2012)

Alright, so Little Dragon has successfully had his first vet appointment. We'll be scheduling him for another for blood work and possible x-rays in the future, but the vet and I agreed that it would be best to get some weight on him first. Why? Because my poor bird weights 5.5 grams. The vet said he should be about 9.5. The focus in his world right now is putting on weight above ANYTHING else. I even went to the pet store to get him some different kinds of seed mixes that looked like they had some nice, fattening ingredients to hopefully help him out. Tomorrow he'll get his first bit of egg. Do I feed just the yoke or a little bit of everything? I remember when I had finches they got a little bit of the egg shell as well, is it the same with him?

She did get some poo to do the gram stain, and the results should be in sometime tomorrow. She did clip his nails, only nicked one, and that wasn't enough for a blood sample or we would have gotten that done as well.

The vet is also pretty concerned about how he's standing on flat surfaces. He doesn't use just his feet, but has his toes curled to the side and holds himself low enough that he can use the knee part of his leg as well. That's what she's wanting to x-ray in the future, but for now we'll be looking for a platform to put in his favorite corner of the cage to try and encourage him to stretch out his feet and such.

The good news? The vet really likes him! She said he was very well behaved, didn't seem to stressed, and was fairly good about being wrapped in a towel and handled. One of her workers also had cockatiels, and absolutely loves his coloring! She talked and cooed to him till we had to go back for our appointment. I was warned that we have no way of telling how old he is though, and that there's a fairly good chance he could already be in his twenties. Hoping he has a nice, long life with me, and if he does end up living out his days with me I may just have to get another Little Dragon to take his place [the name is just too awesome not to keep using!]


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Uh oh, sounds like you've been converted into an instant 'tiel person.  

The abnormalities with his feet and legs may be the result of malnutrition, and may be permanent. But xrays and bloodwork will tell you more about that. 

When I give egg, I scramble it using little bit of oil, and then just give little pieces to the birds. I don't use shell. There are other ways to do it, but that's what I prefer. 

For weight gain, you can also give him brown rice or whole wheat pasta. The one caveat with this is that some rice and pasta has been fortified with iron for human consumption, and that level of iron can be toxic to a bird's liver. So, take a look at the nutritional information. 

Maybe the best thing you could do for him right now would be to get a gram scale to weigh him daily, or every few days, so that you can make sure he's gaining instead of losing. The scale that I use does tare weight, so I can zero the scale with a bowl sitting on it, and then have my birds perch in/on the rim of the bowl. You can also rig up a simple t-stand perch to put on the scale for weighing. I'm not sure what units your vet used to weigh him, but I think you mean that he's 55g and should weigh somewhere around 95. 5.5g is an extremely small amount. 

I'm glad that you found a vet you liked, and that she likes Little Dragon. I bet you'll have him very healthy in no time.


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## Payton Leeroy (Sep 10, 2012)

Hmm.. 55 does sound about right... I have a kitchen scale that weighs ounces for my dog's raw food, but I don't think it's sensitive enough for him. I'll have to see what I can find. Maybe I could find a scale that I could use for the bird and for the dog food so I have something more accurate for that as well.

Do you cook the brown rice or not? What about quinoa? I'll have to check all my pasta and the rice for whether or not it has extra iron added.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If he likes sunflower seeds, those are nice and fattening and high in nutrition too.

I make cooked egg for my birds by beating up an egg in a bowl, nuking it in the microwave for 45 seconds, letting it cool, then cutting it into small pieces and freezing it in a sandwich bag. When I want to give them egg, I take out the amount that I want and let it thaw. It's usually recommended to give egg only once or twice a week, 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon per serving, to avoid overdosing on protein, fat, cholesterol, etc. But your boy obviously has some deficiencies to make up for, so I would imagine that it would be OK to give him egg daily for at least a couple of weeks.

You can buy a kitchen scale or postal scale that weighs in grams. Walmart has a digital kitchen scale for $19 at http://www.walmart.com/ip/The-Biggest-Loser-Digital-Food-Scale-6.6-lb.-Capacity/11090896 If Little Dragon doesn't like standing directly on the platform, you can make a T-stand from a rebar cap (available at Home Depot) and 5/8" dowel:









Many natural-foods grocery stores have human-grade whole grains available in bulk bins, so you can buy as much or as little as you want. They're natural grains so no extra iron has added. You can sprout/soak them or cook them to soften them up so they aren't too hard for a cockatiel to eat. This improves their digestibility too. There's info on sprouting at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=9019


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Payton Leeroy said:


> Hmm.. 55 does sound about right... I have a kitchen scale that weighs ounces for my dog's raw food, but I don't think it's sensitive enough for him. I'll have to see what I can find. Maybe I could find a scale that I could use for the bird and for the dog food so I have something more accurate for that as well.
> 
> Do you cook the brown rice or not? What about quinoa? I'll have to check all my pasta and the rice for whether or not it has extra iron added.


Yes, brown rice and pasta get cooked, without any kind of seasoning. Quinoa is also excellent, and my birds love it! 

I was hoping Carolyn would show up and tell you about her awesome weighing system like the did in the previous post.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If you really want to get snazzy you can order a bird scale like this one at http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=15088 :










The $80 price tag makes me choke though. I paid $3 or $4 for the rebar cap and about another dollar for the dowel. 

About the weight: 90 to 100 grams is considered to be average weight for a cockatiel, but tiels have too much individual size variation to take an average number and say that's what the bird should weigh. L.D.'s foot issues might have been caused by malnutrition in infancy, and if that's the case then it's likely that his overall physical size is less than average, and 75 grams might be a healthier weight for him than 95. But 55 grams is definitely underweight.

The best way to determine the appropriateness of a bird's weight is by feeling the keel bone (breastbone). We have a how-to at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=17680 It's not the easiest thing for an inexperienced person to judge, but if you start feeling his keel bone now you'll be able to feel the improvement when he gains more weight.


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## Payton Leeroy (Sep 10, 2012)

Yeah, the vet had me feel his keel bone while she was holding him. It was flat out bone, didn't seem to have anything else. The vet thought he should weigh 95 grams, so he may not actually be that small. He might have had a good home before the crazy lady who threw him outside, which would explain why he's willing to give me kisses and cuddle with me as long as I'm avoiding hands. He does know that the kissy sound means I want a kiss, so clearly someone loved him once...

I think I'll go with the cheap option. He didn't have a problem standing directly on the scale at the vet's, so she didn't have to get her fancy stuff out. Kinda glad he is gunna get so much egg for a while, cause it means I'll be getting a lot of egg too! I certainly don't mind adding my seasonings after pulling out the bird's share. I think I'll make sure he has a once a day option of egg, rice, quinoa, pasta, and vegetables, though today he wouldn't even go over to the bowl with the vegetables to check things out... Maybe I'll cook up some veggies with the eggs to try and encourage both at the same time!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

You could get him some Nutriberries too. They aren't particularly fattening, but they contain balanced amounts of every nutrient that birds are known to need. They look like seed balls, and most cockatiels love them!

I don't know whether he ever learned to eat pellets - it can take a while to teach a cockatiel to eat them. But if he does eat pellets, Harrisons make's a high potency formula that has extra protein, fat, and many vitamins. The chart at the bottom of http://www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/ingredients.html shows the difference between Adult Lifetime Fine (ALF) and High Potency Fine (HPL). The numbers for the high potency formula are almost identical to the handfeeding formula. Harrisons isn't sold in pet stores, you usually have to get it at a vet's office. It's also harder than average to get birds to eat it - the owners love it for the quality but the birds don't seem to think it tastes very good lol.


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## Payton Leeroy (Sep 10, 2012)

He has nutriberries and pellets and a new seed mix I found yesterday that's got a good amount of sunflower and similar seeds. Also picked up a parrot mix that has stuff like pumpkin seed and dried red peppers to try and encourage him to at least start trying different things. Gunna try feeding him some rice and vegetables right now though.

Crazy dream last night... Somehow I ended up finding a TON of abandoned little animals, mostly birds... There were about 8 cockatiels as well, all with clipped wings. I have some crazy dreams sometimes.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

tielfan said:


> Harrisons isn't sold in pet stores, you usually have to get it at a vet's office.


You can order Harrison's from Amazon.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> You can order Harrison's from Amazon.


That's good to know, although I checked it out just now and by the time you pay the shipping it costs more than getting it from the local vet. I couldn't find any that was eligible for free shipping.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

tielfan said:


> That's good to know, although I checked it out just now and by the time you pay the shipping it costs more than getting it from the local vet. I couldn't find any that was eligible for free shipping.


That's true -- I get spoiled because I have Prime membership, and shipping is free for me on most things. But, depending on how far one might have to travel to get it from a vet, Amazon might still be worthwhile.


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## Payton Leeroy (Sep 10, 2012)

Good News everyone!

Today I convinced Little Dragon that both egg and Quinoa are safe by eating them and "accidentally" dropping some onto my shirt right beside him/letting him take a little from my mouth. He seemed to like the egg better, which is cool in my book, cause I do too. Also found out from the vet that his smear thing came back clean, no parasites or anything to worry about from his time outside! And, most importantly, according to the kitchen scale I got today he's gained about 5 grams! *Dances* He's been eating the nutriberries in with his food, and I've seen him eat dried banana and try the peppers mixed in with his food too! YAY! At this rate he'll be better in no time!

However, he's become a little more angry at hands since going to the vet, and his bites are actually hurting, so I've been using a towel to pick him up for the weighing part. Otherwise I'll stick with trying to get him on a stick and from there to my shoulder while continuing to teach him that hands are the source of good things, not scary monsters that are going to eat him...


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

In a way, it's a positive sign that he's started biting. He didn't have the energy before to get mad and chomp down, and now he does. You're wise to avoid the bite as much as possible while you work on teaching him that hands are OK - it's much easier to establish a biting habit than it is to break the habit.

It's great that he's learning to eat a variety of foods. It's best not to let him eat from your mouth though, because the human mouth contains bacteria that are potentially harmful to birds. The risks are apparently pretty low, since millions of people kiss their cockatiels without harm to the bird. But since L.D. isn't at the peak of health and immunity right now, it's better to be safe than sorry.


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## Payton Leeroy (Sep 10, 2012)

The letting him eat from my mouth was more of a I put the food between my lips fresh from the egg, then let him grab it. By the time we got to the quinoa he had figured out that anything I drop off of the fork going to my mouth had to be pretty good. Tomorrow I'll try and just put the egg straight into a container in his cage and see if he remembers it, cause he seemed to really like it, white and yoke both. Mostly I'm just super glad that he seems to be recovering and is even willing to try new things that will help him get better faster!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

That is great news.  He's so lucky he found his way to you, and I'm very glad you're enjoying him as well.


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## Clair (Jul 31, 2012)

Payton Leeroy said:


> Crazy dream last night... Somehow I ended up finding a TON of abandoned little animals, mostly birds... There were about 8 cockatiels as well, all with clipped wings. I have some crazy dreams sometimes.


I dream about birds all the time! I've been posting the good ones in the "how was your day" thread.


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