# Gender ID by inner wing spots



## Tacotielca (Dec 3, 2013)

Hello. I am on a mission (out of curiosity) to gender ID our new tiel. I believe she is female because I found this one site that explained wing spot sexing. It says that if the tiel has wing spots on each of its wing feathers all the way to the body, and it is under 1 year old, it is a female. If it is a pearl pied, which ours is, the spots will be elongated. Our Taco is a cinnamon pearl pied and is under 1 year and has one dot and one long spot on each of her wing feathers on the underside all the way to her body. By this, I am sexing Taco as female. Also, she is very quiet aside from the first week where we thought she chirped her name Taco about 10 x. She is also very laid back, not very active, and love head rubs. Did I do a good job sexing? Or does anyone have a different opinion?earl:


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## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

If it is female she will keep her pearls, if it is male it will molt them and they will be replaced with ghost pearls. Spot sexing only really works after a year when you're sure they have had a first molt. It works just like the pearl mutation, males lose their spots and females keep them.










- Susanne Russo justcockatiels.net


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## Tacotielca (Dec 3, 2013)

Thanks Darkel for your response. As I understand, however, "Under-Wing" spot sexing is different then looking at the pearls. Yes, I have been told many times that males will molt out their pearls and female retains them. However, the "spot" on the underside of wings do NOT go all the way to the body in males, and in females they do... until they are over 1 year, and at which time the males will no NO spots under their wings and females will have spot(s) but they will lose the ones on the wing feathers closest to their bodies. It is the above method to which I came to the conclusion of "female". The pearl method will have to wait until after one year of age. Also because Taco is pearl "pied", we may have to wait more than one year... but by then, I am sure she will have laid eggs for us to confirm, LOL.


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## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

Tacotielca said:


> Thanks Darkel for your response. As I understand, however, "Under-Wing" spot sexing is different then looking at the pearls. Yes, I have been told many times that males will molt out their pearls and female retains them. However, the "spot" on the underside of wings do NOT go all the way to the body in males, and in females they do... until they are over 1 year, and at which time the males will no NO spots under their wings and females will have spot(s) but they will lose the ones on the wing feathers closest to their bodies. It is the above method to which I came to the conclusion of "female". The pearl method will have to wait until after one year of age. Also because Taco is pearl "pied", we may have to wait more than one year... but by then, I am sure she will have laid eggs for us to confirm, LOL.


I have heard of that form of spot sexing, it doesn't work.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

With Pearls, you can try sexing by looking at the tail feathers. Look in our Wing Spot Sexing sticky in the Sticky Library for more information. Wing spot sexing only works on non-pearl mutations. And yes, it works, but it isn't extremely accurate.

Also, not all female birds lay eggs..so don't count on eggs confirming your female suspicion.

And no, wing spot sexing is for juvenilles only. There is no point in looking at wing spots after they've had their first molt; they should be able to be visually sexed unless they're pied..then you may look at the tail feathers.


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## Fredandiris (Nov 27, 2012)

Yes, wing spot testing isn't the most accurate way to determine gender. I recently discovered that one of the babies I had sold was a female, not a male as I had determined from wing spot testing. Good thing I said I was only partially sure she was a he hahah


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## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

As I said, wing spot sexing doesn't work. Unless you're monitoring them to see if the spots themselves are disappearing it really doesn't amount to much more than an old wives tale.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

That makes absolutely no sense, Darkel. 

Wing spot sexing is meant for juvenilles only (meaning cockatiels before their first molt with all their BABY feathers)..so that you can look and see that the bird either does or doesn't have spots on the four inner most feathers. You don't look at the spots and then look again and again over time. That is not what wing spot sexing is.

Wing spot sexing is in no way 100% accurate, but I've seen enough birds sexed accurately using the method that I know it is accurate the majority of the time (that is over 50% of the time). 

It does not matter for this thread anyway, since the poster has a pearl and wing spot sexing does not apply to pearls.


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

If you really must know your 'tiels gender, you can either get a DNA test, which is 99% accurate, or you can wait for the first molt (which is 100% accurate, heh heh). There are tons of other sexing methods out there but the only ones that are going to give you proper answers are these.


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## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

I was saying that if your cockatiel's wing spots disappear during the first molt you know that bird is a male. Any other form of wing spot sexing like the form the OP described is nonsense and does not work. Sorry for the confusion.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

But the method the OP described works majority of the time, so?


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## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

bjknight93 said:


> But the method the OP described works majority of the time, so?


I recognize that there are differences between my cockatiel's bloodlines and others. Maybe there are lines where this is an accurate way to discover the sex. While I am forced to consider this possibility, it has been my own experience you get about the same results flipping a coin. So it isn't an across the board way to identify the sex of a cockatiel accurately and that's the way it is. Either wait for a molt or do a DNA test, those are your options. If there are lines where this works only the professional breeder would know it and no novice should consider it definitive.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

No one said it was definitive. I certainly did not. And likewise, no novice should assume that it doesn't work.

Tacotielca, do you have photos of the underside of your bird's tail feathers?


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## Tacotielca (Dec 3, 2013)

No I am afraid I don't as yet, and don't have access to take one right now. They are all yellow, however, no grey to the centre tail feathers that would indicate male. The under side has black horizontal line patterns. I can try maybe after Xmas to take and post a pic.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Male pearl tails are not grey until after their first molt.


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## Tacotielca (Dec 3, 2013)

Well, I am back to square one then, LOL.

It really doesn't matter what taco is, we love her regardless. I am just so scared if I am right about her being female that she might have health issues with egg laying. I have read many horror stories of prolapse,etc. and birds dying from it. I want to get her a FSL and was wondering if I can get on of those black lamp covers that you see in all pet stores and putting a FSL bulb in it. The lamp shade can just sit on top of her cage for a couple hours each day.

On another note, I don't even know if she's had first molt as the pet store only said she's less than 6 months, so if they have first molt at 4 months then i wouldnt know as she may or may not be over 4 months.


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

4 months is early for the first molt. Chances are she hasn't had hers yet. If so, you shouldn't have to wait much longer until it starts.


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## Fredandiris (Nov 27, 2012)

Don't be scared if Taco turns out to be a female. If you give her the right cockatiel diet, one full of vitamins and minerals, she'll be fine. Females may require a little more care due to their egg-laying but it's not bad at all, and quite simple if she was weaned well or is an adventurous eater.

I'm not really sure what an FSL would do? If you're trying to provide with UV light, the best source is always going to be the good ol' sun. My birds like to sunbathe on the window. I know a lot of people on here have a smaller outside cage to safely have the bird enjoy the outdoors. If you have hawks though, that's definitely not a good idea. The ones in my area are quite bold :/

About the molt, it depends on the bird. Chicken started noticeably molting at around 5 months and is still going through the change into his yellow face. 4 months is a bit young for most though.


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## Tacotielca (Dec 3, 2013)

Taco is on a 70/30% pellet/seed diet with occasional millet. She likes broccoli and celery but doesn't want to touch any other kinds of veggies. We don't have broccoli or celery more than 1 x every week or two so is that enough of a supplement? If she does lay eggs is it a good idea to purchase some sort of supplement to put in water? We plan to move her cage outside in the summer but right now it's -25 ish celcius here in Canada :-0 and lour winters are loong! We do have hawks in our area so she will always be in cage. We also have gazebo with a mosquito net but I don't know if I trust that to hold her in without her flying away


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

Fredandiris said:


> My birds like to sunbathe on the window.


But windows block the important rays that they need from the sun. They _have_ to be fully exposed to the sunlight so that it is not filtered in any way, and the window filters it.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Those black lamps meant for reptiles say 'for incandescent bulbs only on them' and FSL is are not incandescents. I'm not sure what the risks are, but I've avoided the reptile lamps for that reason.

Male birds need Vitamin D too, so regardless of sex you may want a FSL or exposure to sun outdoors, in a safe cage.


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## Fredandiris (Nov 27, 2012)

Hmm...I think windows block out most of the UVA lights but not all; they're still getting some, but I do bring them outside about once a week on the weekends. Or at least I did, before I started school again. Hahah for some reason Chicken is terrified of direct sunlight on his back.

I think Taco needs more veggies in her diet. Celery and broccoli are a good start, but it's always good to branch out and have variety. You can try preparing the vegetables in different ways. My birds will only eat carrots if they've been shredded or chopped into fine strips. You can try steaming yams or other veggies and see if she likes that. Also, you can give her hard boiled egg. If she needs an extra does of calcium, grind up the shell really well after a minute or two in the toaster oven and pour it over the chopped up hard boiled egg. I only do this when my girl is laying eggs or feeding young ones. But you know, be creative and have some fun with it. There are A LOT of things these guys can eat so there's ought to be more that she would like I think. Make sure it's on the 'safe for cockatiels' list though!

If she ups her diet with some more veggies, I feel like vitamin doses aren't necessary. I've been told that with a good diet, or even an all pelleted one, vitamin doses are actually giving too much to the birds. And with egg binding, my vet told me it mainly happens because of bad diet (all-seed)

And last but not least, make sure she has cuttlebone and that she's eating it.


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## Tacotielca (Dec 3, 2013)

Thanks!

I will try more veggies. I plan to keep offering and maybe one day she will accept them. I will keep the egg shell in mind if she does start to lay eggs. She loves her pellets and I know she would be happy with only pellets but I have been giving the seeds for variety. We have a mineral block and cuttlebone in her cage and I noticed that she will use the mineral black but not cuttlebone. Is the mineral enough?

I also moved her food and water dish to the bottom on the cage....I know its too early and she is not hormonal yet, but I am practicing (so to speak) to make her not too comfortable by moving things around. Also, I find she doesn't use her whole cage... She usually stays in one or two spots and hardly move around so with the dishes moved I hope I am encourage her to move to the bottom of her cage. I leave two of her cage doors open all the time, hoping she will either fly out or climb out the small door and up to her play gym, but she doesn't know how yet. She is clumsy with landing so I think she is scared to fly out. She's been with us since nov 29th, so 3 weeks+. Is she still getting accustomed to her new home, or should she be adjusted by now? Sorry for all the questions, books don't really have these answers. Thanks everyone for being so helpful.


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## Fredandiris (Nov 27, 2012)

Yup, just gotta try a lot of things before you find out what she likes. Sometimes if you orient the veggies differently, that could intice them to eat it. Like hanging up their veggies rather than putting them in a dish. Also, you could sprout seeds. Birds usually take to that very easily.

I'm not really sure about the mineral blocks. I don't provide my birds with a mineral block, just cuttlebone. Here's a great link from srtiels about calcium and egg-laying: http://www.talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=19866

and a contesting one: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=7561&page=2

Personally, I haven't had a problem with egg-laying yet with my female, Iris, although she's only laid 2 clutches of eggs so far. When she begins laying I provide her with plenty of warm, softened pellets (I put pellets in a small plate, then pour just enough hot water to make them soft), eggs with eggshell, and cuttlebone. All of this has calcium so I think it helps her. 


She could still be accustoming to her new home. It depends on whether or not she was socialized well as a baby. The two birds I bought from the bird store were very fearful but eventually calmed down but never came around to us. I think it's because they have each other and don't need human contact as much. But the babies that I handfed were very socialized and after a day or two were out and about. So it depends on her upraising. Just keep interacting with her, don't let her be a recluse. Offer her millet from your hand, favorite foods etc.


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## Tacotielca (Dec 3, 2013)

*As requested earlier here are some pics*







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## Tacotielca (Dec 3, 2013)

Another


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## Tacotielca (Dec 3, 2013)

One more


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## Fredandiris (Nov 27, 2012)

Idk if it's just me, but I'm not seeing any pied.


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## Tacotielca (Dec 3, 2013)

Fredandiris said:


> Idk if it's just me, but I'm not seeing any pied.


That may be. I am totally new and only guessing at the cinnamon pied pearl mutation based on what I am reading. So, if someone more knowledgeable tells me there's no pied, I certainly stand corrected. So can someone confirm with my pics what taco is... And any guesses on gender?


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## Fredandiris (Nov 27, 2012)

Can you take more pictures of her? Specifically her back and wings?


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## Tacotielca (Dec 3, 2013)

Here's one


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## Tacotielca (Dec 3, 2013)

My iPad only lets me load one at a time. Sorry.


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## Fredandiris (Nov 27, 2012)

Hmmmm all I'm seeing is pearl, but I could be wrong. It's a little hard to tell from my phone.


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## Tacotielca (Dec 3, 2013)

Merry Christmas everybody!

Thanks for your comments fredandiris and letting me know taco is pearl. Any chance you can tell whether she is still *juvenile* or not (can never 100% believe pet stores, and they only said "less than 6 months" roughly)


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## Fredandiris (Nov 27, 2012)

Yeah, no problem! I am about 90% sure she's a cinnamon pearl but I would definitely get a second opinion just to make sure. If you have a picture of her left wing spread out that would help. Pied cockatiels have at least one light wing feather or tail feather I believe, and it seems neither her tail nor her right wing has one.

I think with pearls, only time will tell if you do not know her parents mutations or get her DNA sexed. I'm not very experienced with pearls, but from what I know, juvenile pearls of either gender look the same. I would say in 3-4 months you could definitively tell her gender by whether she molts her pearls or not. Vocal patterns are a pretty reliable way of determine gender as well, since males tend to pick up tunes while females do more of a chirping kind of thing.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I agree with cinnamon pearl but there's really no way to tell age. If she goes through her next molt and keeps those pearls then she's for sure a female. Males lose their pearls when they molt.


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## Tacotielca (Dec 3, 2013)

Happy Boxing Day!

I don't have a pic of her left wing Fredandiris, but I am 99%sure sure does not have a light feather. 

Yeah, I am going by personality when I decided to call taco "her", as she is really quiet. However when she does whistle she will at times make more than the standard tiel chirp. She also does the bat wing, and love head rubs...which I am thinking is more female trait from what I read (although not 100%).

I am ok with waiting the 3-4 months because it is winter now and I don't think it would be wise to subject her to DNA testing just to satisfy my curiosity (so I will ask annyoing questions instead, LOL:


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Bat wing is gender neutral so that wont help you and neither will head rubs, some of my most cuddly birds have been male. You could have a very talented female, its just a wait and see thing. But honestly, DNA testing isn't painful and it wouldn't be that bad if you wanted to do it. Pluck a couple chest feathers and send them in.


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## Fredandiris (Nov 27, 2012)

Sometimes females will do like a screaming/chirping thing. Males usually have a sort of rhthymic chirping and they tend to do a lot of mimicking as well. If taco is getting some rhythm in and it's almost like a song, then she's probably a he, although there's a small chance she's just a female singer. If she does heart wings, then she's a he. My male started doing heart wings around the age of 4 months, which told me he was a male (plus all the mimicking and singing and following his mother around were pretty strong signs lol)


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