# Scared me to death sorry kinda long



## Erinsmom (Sep 7, 2012)

For those who don't know as I am very new here I have 2 babies currently. I am a first time "breeder" if you will. Last night as I was getting ready to go to bed I heard alot of flapping around in the nest box. Mom and Dad where in there. I was going to go check as I am worried they will double clutch on me but mom came out and the noise had stopped. 

Now for the past 2 days I have been co-parenting the babies as I am new at all this and felt nervous to take them on full time feeding them. So I had everything ready for them and had fed them a few times but kept putting them back in. 

next thing i know the flapping noise starts up again. Mom is sitting right outside the door so I go look at what Dad is up to. i open the little side peeky hole and he looks at me with feathers in his mouth and the lutino looks frantic to me. I go get some birdie bread as the parents will come running for it...block the entrance and take the babies out. The lutino has blood on her from where he was pulling her feathers out. 

At first I thought I would just leave them with the entrance blocked till the morning but then i got worried they might get cold. I already bought the temp montering system so i checked the nest and as time went on it got colder so i pulled them. I put them in the brooder i made and hardly got any sleep last night worried checking them and the temp.

So here we are now officially hand feeding the babies. I will say I am scared. The Lutino who is bigger than the other took to hand feeding no problem but her clutch mate was a little more reluctant. BUT they are now fed and warm and SAFE. 

I have read here about birds who pluck. I just don't want the babies to learn that behavior. Frosty( dad) already does it quite a bit to Annie ( mom) but she stops him whereas the babies couldn't. The funny thing is when I took the box off this AM he is frantic. Running around pecking at the cage where the box was making all kinds of noise. mom acts as if she could care less

Wish us luck


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

some plucking is completely normal with the parents. they just are trying to push the babies to fledge... its normal and not quite reason to worry about or pull for handfeeding unless the whole bird becomes bald. a few feathers here and there is not a concern.


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## Erinsmom (Sep 7, 2012)

DallyTsuka said:


> some plucking is completely normal with the parents. they just are trying to push the babies to fledge... its normal and not quite reason to worry about or pull for handfeeding unless the whole bird becomes bald. a few feathers here and there is not a concern.



Yeah I remember reading about it I THINK from you??? I was planning on pulling them yesterday ( day 14 and 15) anyway and although it may be normal OMG it was scary to see. All the blood on her. Also isn't 15 days old a little early?


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

most breeders pull at 14 days. but some birds just pluck, a few feathers here and there is fine, as long as it is not extreme.

some parents pluck also if theyre lacking vitamins and minerals from raising the babies.

so maybe add some fresh greens in the diet high in calcium  plus make sure they get vitamin D3 (full spectrum lighting is best)


you can pull them, but just letting you know some plucking is completely normal


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## Erinsmom (Sep 7, 2012)

DallyTsuka said:


> most breeders pull at 14 days. but some birds just pluck, a few feathers here and there is fine, as long as it is not extreme.
> 
> some parents pluck also if theyre lacking vitamins and minerals from raising the babies.
> 
> ...



Yeah I get some is normal. they have an EXCELLENT diet which includes fresh spinach( their favorite) broccoli corn and carrots a few times a day. Plus their birdie bread( this batch has blueberries, peanut butter, crushed cuttle bone, broccoli and carrots in it) multiple times a day plus their seed mix plus their Zupreem pellets plus cuttle bone plus mineral bar...all of which i see both of them eating on every day. They also get moved to in front of the window daily so i doubt lack of is an issue. 

He is a plucker does it to Annie and she gets angry and chases him away from her. He even runs what he plucks back and forth in his mouth over and over like a typewriter carriage. I wasn't attempting to argue if he was doing it for a good reason or not i was simply trying to share my experience. It was scary seeing that little baby with blood all over her and AGAIN I was planning on pulling them just hadn't mustered the courage yet.

You didn't answer isn't 15 days a little young for him to be attempting to make her fledge? I have been reading so much I worry sometimes I might not absorb it all. Don't they start to fledge at 3-4 weeks?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

No 15 days is normal...babies will start trying to fledge between 3 and 4 weeks but the parents will start laying new eggs around this time. I had a baby that was completely bald on his head til he was weaned because Fuzzy, his dad, plucks during breeding season. He plucked his first mate and the youngest baby from his first clutch and he plucked this baby as well. The blood can be scary for sure. 

Dad is more concerned than mom because the babies are his sole responsibility for the most part. Mom will help out occassionally but as the babies get older, Dad becomes more in charge. Daddy birds are more maternal than mommy birds.


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## Erinsmom (Sep 7, 2012)

roxy culver said:


> No 15 days is normal...babies will start trying to fledge between 3 and 4 weeks but the parents will start laying new eggs around this time. I had a baby that was completely bald on his head til he was weaned because Fuzzy, his dad, plucks during breeding season. He plucked his first mate and the youngest baby from his first clutch and he plucked this baby as well. The blood can be scary for sure.
> 
> Dad is more concerned than mom because the babies are his sole responsibility for the most part. Mom will help out occassionally but as the babies get older, Dad becomes more in charge. Daddy birds are more maternal than mommy birds.


Oh ok thanks!! When I first heard all that noise in the nest i was afraid they were getting busy in there but when it was just him.AGHHH he didn't pull from her head he did it all over her body and YES it is scary to see all that blood for sure!!

I am reading up on natural hormone lowering so they don't breed again too quickly. I am not even sure i want to go through this again  While very exciting it is nerve wracking especially your first time. Have to see how it all turns out.

Thanks guys!! I don't know what I would of done if I hadn't found this site.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Double clutching is very hard to prevent (I've never been able to) but since you've already pulled the babies and the nest box it should be easier. I know lperry82 has great success preventing double clutches in her birds.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Personally I don't like to see ANY plucking but there doesn't seem to be a 100% sure way to prevent it other than pulling the babies for handfeeding.

The mother is the offender more often than the father is but males who pluck their mates aren't uncommon. Their diet sounds excellent; however it's common for breeding adults to have issues with sodium deficiency, and for my birds at least things like pellets, mineral blocks and "regular" veggies aren't enough to fill the need. But if I make a point of providing sodium-rich vegetables (red chard to be exact) it stops Shodu from plucking the babies, at least until they get close to fledging age. 

A little extra sodium might help your male too. Celery is another sodium-rich veggie although it's generally low in other nutrients. You can also spread a little salted butter on a small piece of whole-grain bread, or provide one of those salt wheels made for rodents.



> They also get moved to in front of the window daily so i doubt lack of is an issue.


Modern window glass (meaning pretty much anything that's less than 50 years old) is designed to block UV rays. Window screens deflect a lot of the UV too. For birds to get the UVB they need to produce vitamin D, they need to have either direct unfiltered sunlight (no glass or screens in between) or a UV-producing full spectrum light. However they can get their D3 from dietary sources. It's not found in very many natural foods (egg yolk is the main source for birds) but it's in Zupreem pellets, so if they're eating a lot of pellets they're getting some D3 from that.


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## Erinsmom (Sep 7, 2012)

tielfan said:


> Personally I don't like to see ANY plucking but there doesn't seem to be a 100% sure way to prevent it other than pulling the babies for handfeeding.
> 
> The mother is the offender more often than the father is but males who pluck their mates aren't uncommon. Their diet sounds excellent; however it's common for breeding adults to have issues with sodium deficiency, and for my birds at least things like pellets, mineral blocks and "regular" veggies aren't enough to fill the need. But if I make a point of providing sodium-rich vegetables (red chard to be exact) it stops Shodu from plucking the babies, at least until they get close to fledging age.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for that explanation.. Much clearer. I had no idea about the sodium issue. He is plucking and picking at Annie too has been for a few days that is why I was first thinking they were in the box mating. That is one of his foreplay moves LOL He did it to both babies but the Lutino seemed to get the brunt of it and she is larger than the other but has a more laid back personality. I am actually thinking of removing him from the cage and placing him next to Annie but separate as he just won't leave her alone now that he doesn't have the babies to take up some of his time.

I was giving them some egg daily ever since she started laying and they do regularly eat their pellets now finally. Nice to know about the windows. I have a small cage I planned on giving them fresh air in but I hardly had them and then babies came and I was nervous about separating them at all until I was ready to pull the babies.

Here is a pic I took this AM before feeding. You can see the large red area on her back. Frosty caused that I will try and update with better pics of the damage


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Poor baby! As long as she's no longer bleeding, she should be fine now. Some birds get overzealous and don't even realize what they're doing when preening.


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## Erinsmom (Sep 7, 2012)

here is Riley he just has 2 little small red spots you can't really see


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Parents who pluck tend to go for the head first and the body later. It looks like there were a couple of feathers plucked from the head, but otherwise it almost looks like he was intentionally going for blood rather than feathers. 

I just moved this old thread by srtiels into the sticky library: http://www.talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=30881 It says "With parents that pluck their babies in the pinfeather stage in the nest I have learned that many times it is a result of a sodium deficiency... I do know that the pinfeathers contain blood which has trace amounts of sodium/salt that would satisfy a deficient parent." 

She suggests trace mineral dust. I don't know whether that's necessary in your case, but it would be good to provide some extra sodium in a form where he can control how much of it he eats, and see whether it makes any difference.


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## Erinsmom (Sep 7, 2012)

tielfan said:


> Parents who pluck tend to go for the head first and the body later. It looks like there were a couple of feathers plucked from the head, but otherwise it almost looks like he was intentionally going for blood rather than feathers.
> 
> I just moved this old thread by srtiels into the sticky library: http://www.talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=30881 It says "With parents that pluck their babies in the pinfeather stage in the nest I have learned that many times it is a result of a sodium deficiency... I do know that the pinfeathers contain blood which has trace amounts of sodium/salt that would satisfy a deficient parent."
> 
> She suggests trace mineral dust. I don't know whether that's necessary in your case, but it would be good to provide some extra sodium in a form where he can control how much of it he eats, and see whether it makes any difference.


Thanks if they have another clutch I will most definitely keep it in mind as I pulled the babies and the nest box.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If you provide a little extra sodium now it might stop the father from plucking the mother. If he has already stopped doing this then you can wait.


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