# Do tiels really forgive?



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

I am feeling guilty right now...I fear I have been a bad parront to Storm already. We got off on the wrong foot, and though I have been trying to mend things between us I've made a few more stupid blunders since bringing him home.

I was told that he was tame and liked people, and I expected him to be like my other two were -- not afraid of me, even if they took a little while to settle in completely. Well, with Storm, I opened the carrier when I first brought him home and expected him to come walking calmly out. Instead he ran out and frantically flew into the closet. I had to go retrieve him, and it was obvious he was very freaked out. He didn't want to step up, on my hand or a perch. I don't know if toweling him would have been a better option, but what I chose to do was pursue him with a perch at first -- then my hand -- and he finally gave up and stepped up. I then put him in the cage.

Since then, things have been weird between us. He doesn't seem to like me at all, and will run from my hand if it gets too close unless I have millet. I offer him millet every day, and talk to him to show him that I'm a friend. He puts one foot on my hand at first to get it, but will eventually bring the other one over. As soon as I take the millet away, or he decides that he's done, it's off my hand he goes. A few times, he has flown from the cage, and I have gotten him to step up from the floor. Each time, I had to chase him a little bit; not aggressively, but he would walk away until I spoke gently and inched my hand closer. Finally, he would give in and climb up "willingly." Instead of putting him back, I kept him with me for a little while, feeding him millet while he was on my arm and letting him settle in. I wanted him to realize that being with me was okay, that I wouldn't hurt him, just give him treats.

I don't know if I've been doing the right thing, though. Technically, I have forced him to come to me. And I have grabbed him before (with a towel), to feel his keel bone and make sure he was not dangerously emaciated. I broke one of his tail feathers in the process.  I'm just wondering...can he still learn to trust me now that I have forced myself on him? I did not let him come to me, I made him come. He's forgiven me enough that he will still take treats from me, and sometimes he sings but I don't know if it's to me. He definitely does to my boyfriend, but my boyfriend can actually whistle (unlike me). He vocalizes at me but I don't know if they're angry noises or if he's just trying to talk to me.

Has anyone ever done wrong by a new, scared bird (pushed them into interacting when they weren't ready) and still managed to gain the bird's trust down the line? I'm worried sick that I ruined things forever and Storm will never trust me.


----------



## Korvia (Aug 3, 2012)

I wouldn't worry too much, he'll come around.
I've made mistakes with Bandit, like you I was told he was very people friendly, disappointed to find out he wasn't. First night I got him, he got lose, the only way to get him was to hold him in a towel and I was a "meanie" by clipping him. He was very scared. I think he has forgiven me, because if walk past him in my room, he'll hop on my shoulder and chatter away to me. Like storm he's not keen on "step up" unless he falls to the floor. I think it's a learning curve for them as much as it is for us.


----------



## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

my bird mango is super skittish and we've gotten to a decent level of trust. its all on his terms and his terms only. have you seen the sticky thread for taming skittish or aggressive birds? if not, it might be good to reference for some ideas 

i find them to be very forgiving. look at tsuka for an example. blood feathers. hes broken soooo many of them, i have to pull them. after i pull them he stands up and asks me for scritches. i do believe they forgive you.

but you will have to earn his trust  he may not be a people bird. some birds just are more bird oriented than people oriented. or he may just be very scared in a new home still. some birds don't take change well.

again, my lovebird mango is very skittish. he does not take change well. i put him into a new big cage and it took several months for him to even start using the bottom part of it, and even now he is still leery on it. i dont change the layout too often for him because he gets spooked easily. try to keep things the same for him, try not to change too much for him. even wear the same outfit each time you handle him. have a set pair of clothes to wear when you interact with him, since he is still in quarantine, right? he would be in another room. this way its the same for him each day and it might make it easier on him as he adjusts. dont push him too much right now with millet if he seems stressed, let him settle into his new home


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

I don't think he's overly stressed by my presence, so it could be worse. He doesn't seem scared when I'm changing the food and water or doing other stuff inside his cage, but he'll move away if my hand gets too close and I don't have millet. I don't push him with it, just let him come to me if he wants it. He LOVES it and since he's a bit on the skinny side I figure it's okay to spoil him with it for the moment. He actually seems pretty well-settled in general except that he doesn't come out of the cage much, even if it's just to go on top. He prefers to stay inside, and doesn't seem to have learned to enjoy his toys yet. He preens a lot.

I'm just paranoid that since I pushed him a couple of times he'll hate me forever. Probably, I am being unreasonable. I was told that he liked to sit on heads and shoulders, and that he would come to his previous owner and try to steal food off her plate. So either she was lying, he was VERY traumatized the day she brought him to me, or he just hates me. I guess only time will tell. I hope he'll learn to at least not be scared of me.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

And yes, he is in quarantine but there is only so much I can do. I live in a 2-br apartment do technically he is sharing the same air supply as my other birds. If he had something highly contagious I'm sure they would have caught it by now.  I do wash my hands between contact, for what it's worth. I haven't been changing outfits though.


----------



## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

I towelled willow one night to check her over and she was so mad that when I offered her a treat afterwards, she took it only so she could throw back at me. No joke. And the next day- she acted like nothing happened. 

And when I got grey- bonding was a terrible task. He isn't really interested in humans and trying to force the love on him did not make him hate me but he only did it cause he had to. It took five months to "tame" him. And really. I can't touch him. He will fly to me and that's on his terms only.

You aren't doing anything wrong. You are trying. He doesn't know you are okay to interact with. If you are expecting him to just start coming to you... It won't happen bc he doesn't know you are okay. 

It takes time. And if you don't put yourself out there- storm will never know you are one of the good guys. 

Another thing to think about is some birds prefer the other sex. I'm willows care taker and Kevin hardly ever sees her but he is in the room- she goes to him before me. 

Sometimes it's just a preference. Dont beat yourself up about it.


----------



## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

he may have been tame, some birds do not react to change well so he could be reacting badly to that and should settle down. remember, some birds can take weeks to even months to settle completely in a new home. he may just not like change well


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Well if birds didn't forgive, then how would birds like Allie still trust humans?

It is possible that Storm isn't a people bird..Taz is like that. He prefers to be left alone, but will step up when we ask him to. If it was up to him he would be with birds and never see a human for all his life. But we have still learned to love him. Sure it's a little disappointing knowing that my bird doesn't want to have a connection with me like my others do, but we still love him. And if Storm turns out to be that case you will love him too. 

Admittedly, I haven't put all that much effort into taming Taz. But this is because he is tame in a sense..but too much human contact makes him extremely stressed out. To the point he is panting. So, I prefer to have a manageable relationship for now so that I don't have to stress him so often.


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

You've only had him a few weeks, right? Give it lots more time. I don't see anything alarming in what you're doing, and his reactions seem pretty normal to me.  We've all done things that have freaked our birds out. It's just part of being a parront.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Thanks guys, it's good to know I'm not doing anything horrible to him. I mean, I feel like I sort of have because I scared him...I know it's possible for abused birds to trust again, but can they ever trust their abusers? I know I never abused him, but I frightened him, on a couple of occasions. To him, it might be one and the same. If we were already bonded and he knew I was okay, then I know he would forgive something like toweling. But I did that to him before gaining his trust. I suppose I should look on the bright side -- he'll come to me for treats. Maybe eventually it'll be more.

I know some birds aren't people birds, but unless his previous owner was lying, he does like humans. Or did. Furthermore, she said he preferred women to men. I just wonder...could one experience change him? The day I adopted him, he was taken from his home, grabbed by his owner and shoved into a carrier, taken somewhere unfamiliar, and then the first thing he saw was me and my big scary hand. Maybe that one experience was enough to turn him against humans?

I'm going to try very hard not to force him into anything ever again, or unless absolutely necessary, and hopefully that'll be after I've gained his trust. The one hurdle will probably be moving him to the new cage I plan to set up for all three birds in a couple of weeks. Until then, all I can really do is offer him treats and talk to him.

Ugh, I really have an unreasonable amount of guilt over this. I just feel like I could have handled things better, in retrospect.


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Well Taz's owner told me he was very friendly and that he was a girl. 

He was a butt since the moment I saw him, but she assured me that was not his normal self. So I took him home anyway.

And it is a very bright side that he will take treats from you; that is a real sign of trust. Taz won't even take treats from me..but I think it's just how he is.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Oy vey.

I was also told that Storm was a girl, and apparently the breeder told this to the previous owner. No idea what sort of sketchy breeder (let alone owner) wouldn't be able to tell this bird was a boy...I suppose I really shouldn't believe anything. But I'm just like that, I'd rather not assume the worst of people.


----------



## cknauf (Aug 27, 2012)

echolalia said:


> I know some birds aren't people birds, but unless his previous owner was lying, he does like humans. Or did. Furthermore, she said he preferred women to men. I just wonder...could one experience change him? The day I adopted him, he was taken from his home, grabbed by his owner and shoved into a carrier, taken somewhere unfamiliar, and then the first thing he saw was me and my big scary hand. Maybe that one experience was enough to turn him against humans?


I wouldn't worry about it. My bird Denali's first day with us involved him breaking 3 blood feathers, our clumsy attempt at first aid, and a trip to the emergency vet. Not exactly the right foot, that. He still came around, even though we've had to pull several more feathers and clean cuts on his wing daily. He gets in moods sometimes were he'll refuse to come out of his cage, but most days he just wants to sit on my shoulder and sing.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Thanks again, guys. I just have to hope for the best with Storm...he does seem to SLOWLY be getting more comfortable around me. He doesn't hesitate to get on my hand for millet nearly as much as he used to. Sometimes I can't help but be negative, but I know it's very early in the game yet and I have years ahead with him. It does help to know that there is hope for him to warm up to me yet.


----------



## Infinity (Oct 17, 2012)

My oldest, Stanley, took so long for him to come out of his shell. I asked my friend who got me into cockatiels if he was defective or just hated me. Now he has so much personality haha. 

Cockatiels are smart...but they don't remember every little thing that has happened to them. Just keep working with him because you don't know where he came from. Also, you have two other birds so I hope that they will help him to warm up. With Connor, my youngest, having another bird around him does him a world of good.

You're a good owner and a good person. All will be fine.


----------



## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

Don't worry. Think of it as what parents sometimes have to do for their children's sake, like taking them to the hospital or the dentist for treatments that may be painful and the children often are too young to understand. But I believe that deep inside, they do understand that the parents are doing it out of love and not malice.  Your birds are living creatures too and they too will understand. They may not understand exactly everything that is going on but they will understand that everything you do for them is out of love. So you gotta have faith in your birdies because I believe they are smarter than what they appear to be.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

I am also wondering if him being clipped might be hindering things. Juju came to me fully flighted, and one of the first things he did was fly to my head. At first, when I would try to get him to step up, he would run from me. He would let me give him scritches, but it wasn't until I got Moon that he started to step up (he saw Moon doing it and copied him). But he came to me on his own terms, to check me out...Storm has no way of doing that. I mean, he does technically, but without his wings I doubt he feels secure enough. I also don't spend as much time around him as I do my other two.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

What do you guys suggest I do, when I have to move Storm and he is having none of it? If he's on top of the cage and I have to put him back in for bedtime, I HAVE to force him to step up onto either my hand or a perch. Either that or towel him.  I've done both and I know it isn't helping us build trust...but I don't have much of a choice. Do you think I' traumatizing him? Today I had to chase him around the cage top for several minutes until he finally stayed on the perch long enough for me to stick him in the cage. He acted mad but after a minute he stepped on my hand and took millet from me. Is there a better way I should be handling this? He seems alright, but understandably he isn't really warming up to me...


----------



## Nicci_ (Aug 28, 2012)

I really wish I could offer some suggestions 
I just wanted to say that I think you are doing really well, and that Storm will come around.
Good luck!


----------



## Ghosth (Jun 25, 2012)

The real kicker is that change ends up happening at their pace.

No matter what you do, this is a given. 

I rescued Joye back in June, some days she will step up onto a finger or perch, some days not. Seems to depend on her mood and how freaked out she is. If she ends up in a part of the room she is not used to, or has tried to get back on her own and just ended up on the floor. She will often see me, jump onto my finger knowing that she'll get a lift back up. 

Remind yourself that your in this battle for the LONG haul.

As for the clipping in my opinion, unclipped + untamed = I do what I want all the time.
I don't have to listen to anyone, because at any time I want I can just bail out and leave.

Better I think to find a way to make it easy for stormy to walk out a perch and a short hop to your shoulder while you sit and read/work on the computer, surf TC, etc.


----------



## TMz (Aug 7, 2012)

doesnt sound like anything terrable. my boy Toi is very weird with me, but we had 2 MAJOR spooks that he never fully overcame. 

young Toi was very affectionate with me, we did everything together


















he was ver stable, company would come over and he either loved em(if they wore jewelery they were his new best friend) or hated them, but was never scared of them. so when family came to visit I brought Toi as usual, but he took one look at then and spooked, started flying in a blind panic all over the house sceaming, flapping and crashing into things, once he was actually down for longer then a split second I managed to towel him and take him back to his cage, but he has never been the same since. he was actually very scared and aggressive after that, I could barly let him out at all. so then one day after I had gotten a new dog, I battoned down to let him out for a bit, that new dog was very birdie, so I locked her in a crate, with a muzzle on outside the room with the door shut..but the second she heard the flapping she crashed out of the crate, broke the room door, ripped off the muzzle and grabbed Toivo, I had to beat him out of her mouth, but one of my other dogs who had always been fine with the birds got amped by the event, flew into the room and chased Toi down snapping at him as soon as I got my other dog to spit him out. this awful and traumatizing event actually made things BETTER, he started to trust me after that [hey I saved him from being eaten, and called in at work to stay home with him for 2 days till I could get him to a vet(this was before a local e-vet exisited for exotics), then I had a steel door custum made and installed to protect him from that dog] he is 9 years old now, I dont think he will ever be affectionate with me again, but he trusts me, he acts like he generally likes me and considers me part of his flock..he rejects other people, and he has started to attack me before thinking I was someone else and stopped mid attack when he realized it was me, so I assume he at least considers himself to have some ties to me lol. THAT I think is traumatizing events, I think your fella will do just fine to overcome simpley going too fast at first


----------

