# Baby leaning



## Loreley (Jan 29, 2012)

*Baby leaning (low muscle tone, damage?)*

Hi All

New to the forum, also new to breeding. Our 2 birds one of which is nearly 10 from what we can work out decided that this year rather than just playing house and going through the motions they would actually produce something. Smokey laid 9 eggs, we had 5 chicks hatch, 2 of which survived. Rory is the younger of the 2, the others died within 24 hours of hatching. 

I have uploaded photos of both babies into my photo thingy but here is a photo of Rory. He is probably at least a week or more younger than Spike and i can't remember if this lack of muscle tone was the same with Spike, but I'm worried. It appears worse on one side, particularly his wing.

Parents have been fed on pellets, seeds, various fresh food and also egg & biscuit mix. The parents seem to be really gun hoe about using the egg & biscuit mix which i have now moved to the bottom tier of the cage in preference to the pellets. 

Would anyone be able to give me any advice, i know that we weren't expecting these little bundles but i would hate to lose another one.

Many thanks
Cindy

http://talkcockatiels.com/photoplog/index.php?n=1913


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It isn't normal if the baby always holds his wing like that. Could you please post some more pictures showing the baby from other angles? This will help us figure out what's going on.

You need to go easy on the egg. At http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27423&page=3 it's recommended to keep the egg down to 1/2 teaspoon per day.

There's a condition called angel wing that sometimes affects baby birds. The tip of the wing sticks out at an odd angle. The exact cause isn't known, and there might be more than one. But it's thought that too much protein in the baby's diet is one possible cause (which is one of several reasons to avoid too much egg). It's easy to treat - my Snowy had it as a baby and she's fine now. This might not be what your baby has since it doesn't look the same in the picture, but more pictures would help. This is what Snowy looked like:


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Your photo gallery at http://talkcockatiels.com/photoplog/index.php?u=6576 shows another baby that looks like a dominant silver. Are both the parents dominant silver? An expert breeder told me that pairing 2 DS together to produce double-factor DS babies can have chick mortality up to 90% due to a lethal gene. Chicks from such pairing can have numerous problems, such as muscle weakness, green stick fractures of the legs or shoulders/wing in the nest, to dying at weaning time. If both parents are DS, this pair should be split up and each bird paired with a normal grey.

If your baby's problem is a dominant silver genetic issue, selenium and vitamin E in the diet might help improve his condition.


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## Loreley (Jan 29, 2012)

will post more photos when i get home from work. mum is a fawn colour, dad is what i was told a white faced grey if that helps. Yes they were going heavy on the egg & biscuit mix, have removed it totally and am pushing the crumble/pellets.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Pictures will help, although it doesn't sound like both parents are dominant silver. Which brings up another question - is it possible that they are closely related? If you got them both at the same place and the same time, it's very probable that they are siblings. When closely related birds make babies there's a high potential for genetic problems in the offspring, including failure to hatch, early death, and deformities.

Are the parent birds willing to eat the pellets? Pellets are an excellent baby food, but only if the parent birds actually eat them. Usually the parents will instinctively seek soft foods for the babies, and pellets count as soft foods because they get mushy when the parents drink water. It's good to have a variety of soft foods, which can include things like sprouted seeds and grains, whole grain bread, and high-nutrition cooked foods.


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## Loreley (Jan 29, 2012)

No they're not related, definately we purchased the white faced grey years after the fawn girl. He seems a bit stronger today. The wing doesnt droop as much. They have had the pelleted food for a couple of years, so as long as i put it on the top feeder they will eat that happily.

Many thanks


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

* mum is a fawn colour, dad is what i was told a white faced grey if that helps.*
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In looking at the baby in this link, since you are in Australia it may be a whiteface platinum. http://talkcockatiels.com/photoplog/index.php?n=1915 If you were in the US it would be a Dominant Silver.


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## Loreley (Jan 29, 2012)

Ok so my white face is a dominant silver, what would the fawn be... and is there issues with crossing them?? I never even considered that there might be genetic issues with them.


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## Loreley (Jan 29, 2012)

First photo is a couple of days ago (this was the day that we stopped the egg & biscuit mix)










Here is today. He's definately improved overall, he's not quite but close to even. What do you all think??











Our other baby Rori is a duplicate of mum Smokey, complete with the bald patch on the back of his head, but by the looks of it its much larger. Do you think he will fill in more? there are very tiny pin feathers starting to come up in that area. Smokey has always had a bald patch not very big but there.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If pin feathers are coming in it's pretty much guaranteed that he was plucked by one of the parent birds. This is unfortunately common in cockatiels, and it usually happens when the babies are about 3 weeks old and the parents want to start another clutch. How old are your babies at this point? 

There are two possibilities with the mother. One is that she has a genetic bald patch, which usually starts on top of the head just behind the crest. The other is that she was repeatedly plucked by another bird, which damaged the feather follicles to the point that she can no longer grow feathers in that area.


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## Loreley (Jan 29, 2012)

pretty sure its genetic, she's always had it. thanks for that.


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