# Fostering Baby



## smegmas36 (Jan 18, 2011)

Hi again, been a while but I have been lurking this site just not talking.

Here's my situation. Friend of the family's son, (14yrs) got a hold of a pair of cockatiels. Early December they had 5 eggs all fertile. They hatched and 4 died soon after. They called me to ask what was happening. I saw 2 of the dead babies and noticed the yolk had not been absorbed. That tells me they came out of the shell way too soon. I asked if anybody messed with the eggs as they were hatching, in particular the 14yr old son. They all said no. So I told them maybe the parents are inexperienced...I'd like to believe this but I know the boy and cracking the eggs open is not beyond this young man. He's very curious and impatient.

I suggested to move the birds out of the kitchen where they have very bright flourecent lighting. They shouldn't be breeding this time of year. I was called when the last baby came out of the egg and again the shell did not look right, it was broken all weird at the top and no clear pip marks that went around the shell. The baby was still in half the shell and I noticed blood veins still red and just a portion of the yolk near the bottom. I told them not to move it and leave it alone.

I'll stop babbling. I now have the baby in my home as the parents abandoned the nest altogether when they did move the cage. My fault, I told them to do so but not at that moment. I have hand fed the baby and is now 11 days old. I am concerned as the baby is not eagerly taking his food as he should be. It's eating and getting enough food in it's crop but it's not hungerly chirping and grabbing at the siringe. I put a little food on it's beak and it just eats from there. It's a slow process as it seems not interested in the food, but does eat. Wondering if I should try a spoon or should I just be patient and hope he gets the idea. Any suggestions?


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

at 11 days old they should eat every 4 hrs aprox .4-6cc/ml of formula
how often are you feeding the baby and how much per feeding?
you would feed 10% its body weight per feeding.(weigh baby on empty stomache every day)
at 8-14 days,4-6ml/cc 
example:7am,11am,3pm,7pm,11pm with no overnight feed
15-24 days,7-10ml/cc
example: 7am,12pm,5pm,and last feed 11pm no overnight feedings required
3-4 weeks old feed 3 times a day 6 hrs apart then a 12 hrs overnight no feedings required
example: 9am,3pm,9pm no overnight feedings required
some babies like spoons while others prefer syringes try both see which it likes best.
hope this helps you solve your problem


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

It wouldn't hurt to try the spoon, some babies just don't take to the syringe while others inhale it. Try the spoon and see if that works better. Is the baby fully digesting everything you feed it?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Is the baby digesting its food properly? It would be a good idea to go to srtiels website at http://justcockatiels.weebly.com/index.html then click on "Articles from the Nestbox" and read the articles related to feeding/crop/digestive issues to see whether any of it applies to your baby.


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## smegmas36 (Jan 18, 2011)

Everything seems fine with the baby. It's eating just very slowly like drops I leave on it's beak. I had hand fed before and you are right with them trying to swallow the end part of the siringe. This one does not.

At 10 days I changed the feeding times to 7am, 11am, 3pm, 7pm and 11pm. Crop is getting filled and emptying or pretty close to when next feeding time is due. Sometimes empty sometimes just a small amount left in the crop.

He's growing and everything physical about the baby seems normal. Alert when I handle him and sleeping and pooping the rest of the time. Pin feathers are starting on wings and tail so he/she seems normal.

I'll try a spoon which I've never before so I need to find some pics on how to bend. Another thing I should mention is that when he/she feels the food on it's beak he/she stretches upwards to swallow but won't open his beak wide to take the siringe. The baby knows it's eating.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

i used just an infant baby spoon and my husband bent in in the shape of a beek with some plyers.you can try that too


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Good luck with your baby. It was good of you to take him in.


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## AnimalLuver (Dec 23, 2011)

Good luck with the chick


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## Kenziekenz (Dec 5, 2011)

Aww this poor baby. I feel so bad for him. I hope it all goes well! Keep us posted!


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## Harleysgirl (Oct 31, 2011)

Aww he/she is lucky to have you help


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## smegmas36 (Jan 18, 2011)

Not really a choice but it was my dumb idea to tell them to move the cage. Should have said after the couple has gone through the breeding cycle.

Anyway good news. He's eating from the syringe now with more enthusiasm. Still not violently bobbing his head but openning his beak wide enough for me to get a nice slow flow of food in. He didn't take to the spoon, in fact he shook his head wildly when he felt the food on his beak. I say "he" as he's very quiet and no hissing when I grab him. Just a guess ofcourse.

Quick question. Parents of this chick is "visually", father pied with a slight bald spot on his all yellow head and mother is lutino with bald spot. I don't know the grandparents as my friend's son got them from someone he knew and didn't ask. The baby was born with mostly black eyes but the pupil was wine red. As the pin feathers are now starting to come out, I noticed the upper wings will be dark but bottom is coming out yellow as well as his crown and tail. I'm guessing this will be a heavy pied chick but can't explain the red pupil. Any guess on the mutation of this chick?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The baby might be cinnamon pied. At birth, cinnamon eyes are described as purplish or plum colored, but the tint can vary from lutino red (which quickly fades) to looking like a normal dark eye. Half my girl babies are cinnamon but their eye color is so dark at birth that I can't distinguish them from my normal grey babies, and have to wait for them to sprout feathers to find out what color they really are. 

If the baby is actually cinnamon and if your mother bird is NOT actually cinnamon lutino, then this baby will be female. If the mother IS cinnamon lutino then the baby could be either sex.


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## smegmas36 (Jan 18, 2011)

Cinnamon? Now that you mention it the pin feathers from the bottom wings do look brown as well was what's sprouting from the tail and head. I wish I had another baby to compare but does seem that way.

I need to upgrade my mutation knowledge base but this would mean the pied father must be carrying this cinnamon gene, correct? The mother as far as I can see is Lutino, red eyes, pink feet, bald spot. Would she need pied for this baby to come out as one. Dark shoulders and upper wings tells me this will mostlikey have pied markings. It's not normal grey, I know that.

When all is said and done, father may be carrying a variety of mutations not visual. He's a beautiful pied male, markings are nicely placed with dark wings and white and yellow everywhere else. What of the bald spot? Is that lutino trate or is that something pieds also carry?

Sorry for all the questions, but since the baby is now eating my attention has changed to what this baby will look like.

Thanks


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> but this would mean the pied father must be carrying this cinnamon gene, correct?


This is correct. In order to get cinnamon males you must have a cinnamon mother, so if your hen isn't cinnamon then any cinnamon babies have to be females. Lutino tends to mask other mutations, but a cinnamon lutino hen will often have dirty-looking feathers on the wings or tail.This is actually a bit of cinnamon color that managed to show itself in spite of the lutino gene.

Cinnamon, lutino, and pearl are all sex-linked recessive mutations and the same inheritance rules apply to all of them. To get a girl who is visual for the mutation the father must be visual or split to the mutation. The mother's color is irrelevant because sex-linked genes do not pass from mother to daughter. To get a boy who is visual, the father must be visual or split and the mother must be visual. Females can not be split to sex-linked mutations.



> Would she need pied for this baby to come out as one.


Pied is an ordinary recessive gene. All the babies will get the pied gene from their father, and have to get the gene from their mother too to be visual pied. The mother can be either split or visual. It's hard to tell whether a lutino mother is also visual pied, but if you get some babies who are not visual pied this is proof that the mother is split. If all the babies are visual pied then she is visual, although you need to get about 10 pied babies in a row to really be confident about it. 



> What of the bald spot? Is that lutino trate or is that something pieds also carry?


Bald spots can occur in any mutation but they're more common in lutinos. It doesn't indicate a lutino split and there aren't any other visible signs of a split. All you can do is wait and see whether you get any lutino babies. You do have a lutino mother, so you can get lutino males if dad is split.


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## smegmas36 (Jan 18, 2011)

Thank you for all the response. I've veered off the topic of this thread. The baby teil I'm fostering is doing quite well. Gaining weight and growing more feathers.
I checked on the parents at our friends house and they seem to be in good health as well. They told me though that since moving them from the kitchen they've noticed more bickering between them. I wonder if abruptly taking their clutch and moving the cage has anything to do with this behaviour.
I told the family to keep a close watch and make sure the bickering is just it, bickering. If a full blown fight or they notice one keeping the other from eating then maybe consider separating. 
In the meantime I told them I would ask you guys what may be the issue with the parents. Any thoughts and or suggestions what to do next?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> I wonder if abruptly taking their clutch and moving the cage has anything to do with this behaviour.


Probably so, since change is stressful. At this point bickering is better than lovemaking since the last clutch wasn't too successful.


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