# My birds are having sex



## Chipper&Trillie

I finally realized that I don't have two male cockateils as I was thinking. I knew that one was certainly a male but another's sex was only known from the previous owner ("he" was introduced as male as well)
Anyway... I finally explicitly saw them having sex. All strange things that I noticed before finally made sense. I just have a few questions regarding this. 

They have separate cages but are out of cages for the whole day, only going in for the night. The boy goes into his cage sometimes, but the girl never does voluntarily. It's very tricky to get her in in the evening. She has a spot on top of the book case where there is a rolled cardboard poster (she sits inside of it, I though she was just shredding it). Lately, she is very concentrated and quiet and does sit there basically all day long. I haven't seen any eggs in it. 
How long is gestation period (don't laugh, I am totally new to it!), basically when should we expect eggs, or we can't say this about birds? how large are eggs, how many? 

Is she supposed to sit on eggs all day and night long? Is it OK to get her in the cage for the night or should we leave her alone in her rolled poster? 

I was thinking to provide her with a small basket or cardboard box that I would put inside that poster to prevent eggs from rolling if there are any. Or, should I try to relocate her nesting into her cage? its not guaranteed that she would agree to stay in her cage and do nesting there. 

A funny question. Two boys wouldn't have sex, right? Somebody told me about it but I thought it was a joke. 

Anything else that experienced people would like to tell me about our situation? Advice? Thanks.


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## CaliTiels

No, it's not a joke. Beaker mounted Jaid and he is very much a cock. Sometimes they can get confused, really hormonal or as I like to think, they can be gay. I know it's silly, but I know I have some gay boys


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## Fredandiris

Well first off, it's possible that two boys will have sex. A lot of pairs end up being same-sex, especially with pied birds since it's almost impossible to determine gender visually. 

Usually when my pair begin their breeding season they start mating about 2-3 weeks before eggs actually appear. It'll start off with a few matings now and then, and then it progresses to almost a daily thing. In the meantime they start exploring more and looking for nice dark places. They'll start shredding stuff up (although for me it's usually just the male who does a lot of the shredding). Once they're at that stage I add in a nestbox. The male then goes and inspects it, peeking his head through and then just plunging into the darkness. He'll accessorize the entrance by chewing it up, and then after 2-3 days the female is allowed inside. They make a little bowl in the bedding and then in about 2 weeks we get eggs. 

Eggs are usually about 5g. You might get large ones at around 8g or small like 3g but I've never gotten any that are small or big. 

Once the eggs are laid that male and female will take turns incubating. Males during the day and females during the night. Sometimes they'll be in there together but that's usually around the time they change shifts.`But right now I think you should put her to bed at night. It would be safer to be in the cage at night.

I think that you should move her nesting spot to the cage but it really depends on her. Hopefully she'll accept the change and prefer the nestbox over the bookshelf


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## Chipper&Trillie

Thanks a lot! 
In a meantime, should I treat Cuddles as a boy or a girl? LOL 
I will provide a nest box but the housing situation is really confusing. 
Originally, Trillie (a boy for sure) was here and he has a not very large rectangular cage that we love coz its easy to move around. He had another fellow, Chipper, who got missing (flew away) in June. Never even Trillie behaved anything like now when Chipper lived with him. 
After Chipper got missing, we brought Cuddles (supposedly a boy too) who came with his large cage that we don't like as its very uneasy to move around. Soon, both birds were flying around a lot, getting into their cages for a night only. 
Trillie has changed a lot since Cuddles arrived. He follows Cuddles everywhere, yelling when he can't see Cuddles, being very demanding, etc. 
Should I assume by this that Cuddles is a girl? Oh, once Cuddles was on my hand and we could see his/her private part really well. It looked like a slit, then slit opened up and he/she pooped (LOL). My husband said that the slit is large enough for the egg to come out. 

I saw them having sex twice today only. When people say "mating season", is there specific months of the year or is it individual for each pair? (it's a big relief to know that they don't mate all year around)


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## Chipper&Trillie

Another question. Can birds masturbate? 
Cuddles loves to sit on the big round lid from thermos type bowl, rubbing his butt against some other stuff that happened to be in the cabinet and spins himself back and forth on the lid, making satisfied noises.


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## SoCalTiels

Oh yeah. Bird spends his days in front of a mirror doing something like that, with a perch, when he's allowed to have a mirror around. But males will lower a leg against a perch and rub there. The hens tend to back up into a solid surface and rub against that. I'm editing my post cause it initially sounded like a female move, but depends on how he's doing it, I guess, not to be crude.

To be blunt but more polite in any way I can, males masturbate on top of things, a dominant 'top' pose like they would take naturally, females try to rub up to solid surfaces with their rear, usually in a lowered, dominant position.


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## Chipper&Trillie

SoCalTiels said:


> females try to rub up to solid surfaces with their rear, usually in a lowered, dominant position.


I think this is what she/he does, but I will try to make a video  
Just removed her/him from the rolled poster to put in her cage. She hissed at me and bit me, like being very hormonal. Never seen Cuddles acting like this. 
I will ask the previous owner if the store did DNA sexing. If they did, would he be 100% a male?


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## SoCalTiels

These are ones I found kinda quickly. I have a video of Mango doing it but it would take me longer to find, but gives you a pretty distinct idea on each one. Hens rub up to things, males rub down on things, in blunt terms again. More apologizing for my sake, I feel weird posting them, sorry! Apologize for birdy business videos, lol.

Mango was a bit more shrill and cluck-cluck-y like a chicken but same sort of motion of a hen:
Lutino hen to food dish

And personally never videotaped Bird but heres the same male 'thing'.
Male to perch


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## Fredandiris

Do you have a picture of Cuddles? We might be able to help you out with his gender.


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## Chipper&Trillie

SoCalTiels said:


> Lutino hen to food dish


that's what mine does!


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## Chipper&Trillie

She's on the left at the second pic. Pictures are not very good, sorry
Tell me what exactly you are looking at and I will try to take a better pic


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## Chipper&Trillie

The previous owner just said he/she could be either gender


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## Fredandiris

Yup you've got 2 pieds there. They could be either gender. I'm not sure if this happens, but it could be possible that one of them has taken a subservient role. I have no idea if this actually happens but I imagine if 2 males are mating then one of the males has been on the bottom...

There's always the behavioral clues you could go by. Males are more vocal. They whistle, mimic, and sing. Females usually just chirp or flock call. Males also make heart wings and from my experience are harder biters. My males have always been able to take a good chunk out of my skin if they wanted to but my females don't bite that hard.


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## Chipper&Trillie

Trillie is a male, the vet told me. Cuddles is also becoming very round recently. I'd better go get a nesting box before we have eggs everywhere. I do believe she is a female. Trillie is very vocal, Cuddles is not. A few more pics of Cuddles


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## Vickitiel

Gorgeous 'tiels!


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## Chipper&Trillie

Thanks! Anything regarding her possible gender?

Also.. if we have eggs and if we have babies, and if I take the babies to the specialized store (not sure about it but this is possible because I wasn't planning on raising babies at all) - would taking kids away traumatize the parents?


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## Chipper&Trillie

Lord, she is protecting her rolled poster really hard! Biting and hissing and being very aggressive when I get close. What stage could she be in? I have no doubts anymore that she is a nesting female.


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## Colorguarder08

No it won't tramatize the parents. Some breeders pull the babies the day they hatch. Some breeders (bad ones) give the babies away before they're ready. I got my first tiel when I was 11 I would assume judging by developmental pics he was only about 2 weeks old.


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## SoCalTiels

I had the absolute sweetest female, wouldn't hurt a fly, and when she went into nesting mode under the cage... It was like a whole new personality. I was fully chased out of my room a few times for getting too close. I would safely say Cuddles is a hen, lol.

But I agree in a sense, taking the babies away won't really traumatize them, like how Colorguard08 explained. But they will remember, in my opinion. Parents will react, and it's not fun, but it's a temporary situation and they recover pretty quickly. It's something you have to accept with breeding, taking babies away. If anything, keep this in mind. It sucks a lot. We react to the situation differently than a bird would. Sometimes birds will start laying a second clutch while the first babies are still being fed, the hen can get aggressive towards the older babies, trying to push them out of the nest before they're ready. Long term after they're grown, it seems like the babies are more just a part of the parents flock than a real 'parent-child' dynamic, they'll sometimes breed with their own kids if given the chance.


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## Fredandiris

If you don't want to deal with babies you could also boil/freeze the eggs or replace them with fake ones. You would have much less to worry about that way. I know someone on this site posted on how to use fake eggs so you could look that up.

I would disagree that taking their babies doesn't traumatize the parents. I think it really does. They're confused and I'm sure they feel some sort of loss but they get over it very quickly, usually after a day or two. But during those one or two days it's sad to see them calling out for their babies or pacing around because they don't know what to do.


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## dianne

I am surprised that she has such a bright yellow crest, if she is a female. Maybe someone can comment on whether that is unusual. I'm curious.


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## Colorguarder08

If it was a normal greay then yes it'd be unusual but with pieds pretty much anything goes.


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## Chipper&Trillie

Ok so she laid an egg in that poster in the morning. Because she didn't eat after night, I got her out of the poster to offer some food and then I saw the egg. I made a small shallow tray (out of cookie box), put some nesting material, put egg in (of course she fought me all this time) and placed a whole thing back inside the rolled poster. Don't know if she gonna except it or not.

Oh, the night before I put wooden nesting box in her cage but she had no interest. She spent night in the cage.


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## Chipper&Trillie

what do we do now? 
Ideas

- move egg into the nesting box in the cage 
- put wooden nesting box on top of book case and put egg in 
- make her a cardboard house on top of book case large enough for both to get in


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## Fredandiris

When my pair laid an egg unexpectedly, I just grabbed it and moved it to a nest box. This was with no prior introduction to nestboxes since it was their first ever egg. With a little insistence (constantly putting Fred at the entrance and later Iris in the box so they could see the egg) it worked, and they laid, incubated, and raised chicks in there. So switching up her nesting place may work, but there's also a chance that it may not work. It's up to you if you want her to nest up there or not.


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## Chipper&Trillie

She is sitting inside the poster but not on the top of the egg, as I can see (it seemed she didn't figure out where I put it) . Is she supposed to sit on the egg basically all the time for the egg to incubate? There should be always more than one egg, right? 
If she wasn't sitting on it, does egg become not viable? 
also, can we touch egg with bare hands or not? 

The problems about moving her nesting spot into the cage:
she and her partner have separate cages so its hard to get both of them introduced to the nest box. 
she really was out of the cage for the whole day. Her cage wasn't very comfortable, should I now lock her in to get her switched to the nest box in the cage?


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## Fredandiris

Generally they don't begin incubating until 2-3 eggs are laid. No, there isn't always more than one egg. I had a female who would often lay one egg and that would be it. She never incubated or did anything with her eggs.

Eggs that have begun undergoing the incubation can be left alone for a little while, I'm not sure how long. But eggs that haven't begun the incubation process can be left alone for much longer periods of time. In fact, some people will take the first eggs laid and keep them in a pantry until the female has laid a few more eggs (over the course of several days) and place the removed eggs back in to make a full clutch. That way all the eggs hatch at around the same time, rather than having a full weeks worth of difference between the oldest and the youngest (and when cockatiels are babies a week between chicks is a HUGE difference).

Yes, you can touch the eggs with your hands. The parents will not abandon the eggs if you touch them. However, some pairs will abandon their eggs if their environment changes too much or if they are spooked by something. Luckily, mine are used to being in a high traffic area, so they don't get spooked too easily. I would regularly candle the eggs and check on their babies. If they were in the box I would just push them out. 

They do not have to be together, if they can't be. Right now the male may only be sitting with her in the spot or he may be "accessorizing" the nesting area. What is he doing by the way? Has he been searching for extra food (mine will fly to the tables or to me and ask for food)?

You may want to begin employing hormone control techniques. Hopefully she will abandon the eggs on her own. 

I can't tell you what the best course of action is, since our birds are different and I have no experience with how other breeding birds could act. I can only tell you what I have done with my pair and hope that it works for you too. If she really really insists on nesting up there, then I would probably let her. 

Have you tried getting her into the nestbox? Don't shove her in or anything, just place her in there. Open up the top, let her see the egg and put her in. Hopefully she'll like the dark space better. It may also help to have the nestbox as high up as it can be since it seems she prefers high locations.


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## Chipper&Trillie

Thank you for detailed answers. Its a bit of a shock as its only been a few days since I realized she may be a girl. 
We were gone for the day for our daughter's birthday party. When we got back, Cuddles was in the poster at first, then she got out and was looking at me with wonder as I was re-organizing her cage (again, changes are bad but we can't make it thru without changing a lot). I am worried that she doesn't seem to eat much during the day. When the egg is laid, don't they need a good nutrition? 
The cock is sitting on the ceiling fan most of the day (he is a pretty boring bird, not tame at all), then sometimes he flies to hang on the vent on the wall that is right by her nesting area, and screams. Never seen him landing on her nesting area. She probably wouldn't let him.
Its not that they can't be in the cage together. When we got Cuddles, people told me that if want to bond with him, we'd better have him separately. Also, we noticed that when she was put in Trillie's cage, they would fight sometimes and Trillie would make angry noises. They would occasionally fight over food that was in neutral territory. 
NO, he is not searching for extra food. just eats himself. 
I did put the egg into the nesting box in her cage, since she basically ignore it in the poster anyway. I didn't know that you can postpone beginning of incubation and still have chicks. I thought if they don't keep it warm, the egg dies. Then I put Cuddles in the nesting box. She wasn't calm as I was trying to grab her. She immediately got out of it thru the hole. I managed to put her in again and then covered the hole with my hand to allow her stay some time inside and maybe see the egg. She got out as soon as I let her. 
A have a nesting box from PetSmart, does little perch need to be all the way outside, no length left inside?


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## Chipper&Trillie

I know its a long way to go, but if we ever have chicks - is there any way to let the parents feed them instead of hand-feeding? can we buy worms, etc ? 

Answering what I want to do - I just want to do what is best for the birds we have.


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## Colorguarder08

You can let the parents feed them and just make sure you handle them alot and often so they will be tame. Since they are a breeding pair I would think itd be ok to let them be caged together as they obviously wouldn't be breeding if they hated each other. When handfeeding you don't use worms, you can buy handfeeding formula from a petstore ( I would advise staying away from Kaytee as I don't trust any of their products).


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## Chipper&Trillie

I mean hand feeding is a great commitment that I am not sure I am prepared for. When parents feed them, are they normally able to do it properly so that no other nutrition needed?


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## Fredandiris

I would disagree. Sometimes birds will breed but have no actual bond. Just like people, some have sex for fun. The bond is what makes a pair good parents. Improperly bonded birds will not be as good as of parents as they can be. I'm not quite sure if your birds are bonded. It doesn't sound like the male is taking any active role in the breeding process after the mating part. Ideally you would want both to be participating in the whole shebang and working together. 

Breeding itself is a HUGE commitment. Not only do you have to worry about the extra dietary needs of the parents, but also any problems that may occur. With first time parents, problems are very likely to pop up. They may not be incubating correctly, leading to Dead In Shell eggs, or they may not feed their chicks well, which leads to growth problems, or they may end up rejecting their chicks, in which case you will be forced to handfeed. It is an unpredictable endeavor. If all the babies end up doing well, then you have to worry about finding them new homes, which, trust me, is a time-consuming and difficult process. So, you need to make sure that you have both the time and money that is required for breeding birds. If not, you may end up with a lot of heartbreak. 

Usually a pair will begin eating more food before eggs are laid, especially soft foods. When my birds are breeding they will eat an enormous amount of food, it's pretty much just constant eating. If your birds do not already eat vegetables and other soft foods it may be difficult to get them to eat food that is beneficial for their babies, such as pellets, boiled egg, and bread. Since you are the one feeding the parents it is up to you to provide the proper foods for raising babies. Babies will most likely not do well on only seed or pellets. Also, cockatiels do not generally eat insects so no need for that. Sprouted seed, boiled egg yolk with ground up egg shell, bread with margarine spread, and veggies should be fed in addition to their regular diet. I'm sure there are plenty of threads on this site that detail what breeding birds should eat.

You don't want to force her into the nestbox. Maybe open up the top and place her on the sides so she can see in. Forcing her to stay inside isn't going to make her like it. If she just isn't accepting it, then let her nest where she is. But, I highly doubt that she will be able to hatch and raise any chicks where she is. In my experience it's the male who does the whole courting into the box thing. He'll check it out and call her in to try and get her to lay in there instead.


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## Colorguarder08

From what I have read when tiels breed they breed with the same mate for life. And the only animals they have proven to have sex for fun are dolphins.


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## SoCalTiels

Sometimes. Not always. There are many instances of mate hopping in cockatiels, or bird 'divorces' I believe is a term srtiels has used on her website. Long term mates simply not wanting to be together anymore, even if they were very bonded, and choosing other mates. Bondage pairs mate because of hormone levels, not because they like one another, which usually leads to a lot of problems in the nest. I wouldn't go so far as to say birds have sex for fun, but I agree it's comparable to the same behavior in people. Breeding with no emotional connect to the other bird, just for the act.

http://www.internationalcockatielresource.com/bonded-or-bondage-pair.html


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## Chipper&Trillie

Is big, kind of watery poop consistent with her condition? She poops a lot. 
She eats kale and some other 'human" food. Its not that I intentionally feed her this, she just expressed interest and now we give her something except seeds and pellets. Can millet spray still be fed in moderation? 

The cock just wasn't given an opportunity to take over the process yet, I think. As for being bonded, he is worried when he can't find her, yells for her to come back. 

Today she stayed in the nest box much longer when I put her in. Do you recommend to keep her locked in the cage for a few days?


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## Fredandiris

Hmm yeah, but there's no definite method to determining whether or not animals have sex for fun. I remember reading some articles that stated that some animals do experience sex as a pleasurable experience, although I don't think that they mentioned birds. Most of the time it's with primates such as bonobos and chimpanzees. They actually have pretty complex sex lives, some of which includes a little "money" (food), if you get where I'm going. Definitely an interesting topic, although only for adults 

Tis true, there are birdie divorces in the world but when a pair is bonded they would most likely be better parents than if they weren't.

Does she like him? Sometimes it can be a one-way street in a courting relationship between birds.


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## Chipper&Trillie

How would you explain masturbation, if not for pleasure? Anyway, I don't want to go deep into philosophy  

Are pine shavings (not compressed and appear to be pretty soft) Ok to line the nesting box? I guess she should line it herself, but I need to put something on the bottom.


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## Chipper&Trillie

She just laid another egg in the nesting box in the cage. But I guess she doesn't realize that this is her nest now because she isn't protective of this place at all.


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## Chipper&Trillie

I put the male into her cage. He quickly figured out what to do and was SUPER excited! Now they take turns going into the nesting box or even both get in there. He is making wood-pecking noises. I don't know if incubating the eggs is a good idea starting from today (?) but this is what they chose to do. I've read that removing eggs would only cause her to lay more. 
My only concern is that she is not eating that well. She normally likes to eat something different from seeds when we are eating in the kitchen and she comes to the table. I thought to keep them in the cage for today to get them used to the new nesting spot. I guess I will let her out tomorrow and then will take time introducing new food to her. I offered her boiled egg in the cage but she hasn't tried it. I would say, she is a much better eater when she is out. 

Should I remove poster from the book case?


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## Chipper&Trillie

please answer: 
Do people have to keep birds in the cage all the time during breeding? Does anyone have birds still flying around and doing their incubating job well? Somebody mentioned searching for food. In the cage they only have what they have. I am having a hard time to have food offered in the cage. What do you use for soft food - regular feeders?


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## Fredandiris

What I do is line the bottom of the nestbox with several layers of paper towels, then on top I add on about 2-3 inches of aspen shavings. If you've bought a dusty brand make sure to get the dust out using a colander. Otherwise it could get into their eyes or cause respiratory infections. 

If she laid an egg in it I would take that as a good sign. Is she still frequenting the poster?

It's their choice when they want to incubate. Some begin when only one egg is laid but generally they like to wait a little, at least that's what my pair does.

If she eats better outside then let her outside. Birds instinctively know how long they can leave their eggs alone for. No, you do not have to keep them in the cage when they're breeding. I let mine out pretty much all day, even when breeding. They do choose to stay inside more, tending to their eggs, but when one is out for a shift she (during the day) will be looking for food, usually from me, or the coffee table. She'll pace if she's stuck in the cage.

For soft foods, I softened up their pellets using hot water and let them eat that warm everyday. I sprinkled on some brewers yeast as a supplement. Other than that, sprouted seed, bread, veggies, and millet were provided daily. About twice a week I would boil up an egg, mash up the yolk, grind up the egg shell very fine, sprinkle the egg shell on the yolk, and serve that to them. They love it. These foods sometimes have to be provided more than once a day. For the pellets I would give them a fresh batch every few hours during the day. You'll have to watch for any deficiencies they may have. My female didn't have enough sodium so I would sprinkle in sea salt to their egg, allow her to chew pistachio shells (salted), and put a margarine spread on their bread. Don't add any extra salt unless you know she's deficient, though I believe srtiels gives her breeding bird bread with margarine spread everyday.


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## Chipper&Trillie

Fredandiris said:


> What I do is line the bottom of the nestbox with several layers of paper towels, then on top I add on about 2-3 inches of aspen shavings. If you've bought a dusty brand make sure to get the dust out using a colander. Otherwise it could get into their eyes or cause respiratory infections.
> 
> If she laid an egg in it I would take that as a good sign. Is she still frequenting the poster?
> 
> It's their choice when they want to incubate. Some begin when only one egg is laid but generally they like to wait a little, at least that's what my pair does.
> 
> If she eats better outside then let her outside. Birds instinctively know how long they can leave their eggs alone for. No, you do not have to keep them in the cage when they're breeding. I let mine out pretty much all day, even when breeding. They do choose to stay inside more, tending to their eggs, but when one is out for a shift she (during the day) will be looking for food, usually from me, or the coffee table. She'll pace if she's stuck in the cage.
> 
> For soft foods, I softened up their pellets using hot water and let them eat that warm everyday. I sprinkled on some brewers yeast as a supplement. Other than that, sprouted seed, bread, veggies, and millet were provided daily. About twice a week I would boil up an egg, mash up the yolk, grind up the egg shell very fine, sprinkle the egg shell on the yolk, and serve that to them. They love it. These foods sometimes have to be provided more than once a day. For the pellets I would give them a fresh batch every few hours during the day. You'll have to watch for any deficiencies they may have. My female didn't have enough sodium so I would sprinkle in sea salt to their egg, allow her to chew pistachio shells (salted), and put a margarine spread on their bread. Don't add any extra salt unless you know she's deficient, though I believe srtiels gives her breeding bird bread with margarine spread everyday.


thanks a lot! 
We now have 3 eggs in the nesting box. She lays every 48 hours, very precisely. She also was staying for about an hour or two inside the nest box today. 
She does go inside the poster sometimes (and just sits there), but I wouldn't say she is really concentrated on it. It makes it easier to get her into the cage at night - I pick up poster holding the ends with her inside, and take a whole thing into the cage. 
I don't know how dusty the pine wood shavings I bought are, they seem not to be dusty. 
How do you determine deficiencies? She eats my daughter's cheese puffs (a healthy brand) that I know has some sodium. 
Still working on getting her into eating more and new food. I buy seed mix in the bird store, they claim it has a lot of goodies and vitamins, etc (no junk). I also feed ZuPreem fruit pellets but I can't say they love it. 
Can I give them real butter (on bread) instead of margarine? I never buy margarine considering it a product that my family doesn't need. IS there a specific reason that margarine needs to be used for birds?

Hmm, today she laid her third egg and is spending a lot of time in her nest box. Male is out, screaming for her. Does it mean she decided its time to incubate now?


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## Chipper&Trillie

Fredandiris said:


> About twice a week I would boil up an egg, mash up the yolk, grind up the egg shell very fine, sprinkle the egg shell on the yolk, and serve that to them. They love it.


did you hard boil the egg? for how long do you boil eggs for them? I cooked egg (hard boiled) and prepared yolk with shell as you said but it came out pretty dry. Is this the way it should be?


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## Chipper&Trillie

I am confused. Today Cuddles laid her third egg and stayed inside the nest box pretty much all day, with interruptions for food. Trillie (the male) was around (in the cage) but didn't help to incubate except for short visits inside the nest box. 
By the evening she decided she was done babysitting eggs, and they both went to sleep somewhere else in the cage. 
I wonder if the male is getting involved in the daytime sitting, and if she decides to sit on eggs over nites. I hope they don't harm the eggs by how they sit them now.


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## Fredandiris

I'd think that dairy isn't too healthy for birds to eat. I had given my birds buttered bread a few times but I switched to margarine since it's a vegetable spread. 

Yeah I boiled them. Um...I think I boiled them for about 15 minutes, or until there were cracks in the shells. 

I'm sorry I don't have an answer for Cuddles behavior. It could be that they don't quite know what to do yet because they're first-timers.


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## Chipper&Trillie

Thank you! does such lack of sitting at night mean any harm for the eggs if they are fertile?


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## Fredandiris

Well if they've begun incubation, then their eggs won't last very long without the parents warmth.


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## Chipper&Trillie

Things are just no fun. She is sitting in the nest box. He is sitting on the perch having absolutely nothing to do (Trillie was never interested in toys)
I am waiting when shes out, to feed her soft food, trying to figure out how I do it if she only eats when SHE decides, and most food can't be left for a long time. Seems to be a lot of pain in the butt  

I'd like to ask if it is OK to move the cage several times a day. its moved to the bedroom for the night because this is where they can rest without disturbance. Then I move them to the kitchen when we are having breakfast and later on - to the living room. 
Do your birds have complete darkness for the night?


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## Chipper&Trillie

Do you think it would make sense to restrict seeds in order to make them try all the other good stuff I have prepared for them? Or, is it not a good time to experiment? 
4 eggs, and she is sitting all day long starting from the day egg 3 was laid. But not during the night. I even think if I separate the male for the night, it might do the trick and make her sit at night too. But I know this is not the way its supposed to be.


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## Fredandiris

Yeah, I don't know if separating them will help. I don't know how single parents work though so hopefully someone else can help you with that.

My female doesn't like total darkness, she gets spooked very easily while in the box. I recommend leaving a light on and a corner uncovered to help prevent any damage to the eggs from a spook.

Moving them probably isnt a good idea. Birds like stability when they're breeding, it helps make them feel more secure.


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## Chipper&Trillie

Today I tried to look at her 5 eggs with the new pen light. Haven't seen much. Do I need to hold the egg in my hands for this? I wasn't touching eggs. 
If there is no fertile eggs, how will mom know when she needs to stop incubating them? 

I didn't put a paper towel, which should absorb extra humidity, at the bottom of the nesting box. Is this a big issue? Not sure how to do it now with the bedding, eggs and birds constantly being in there. 

Yes, it helped to keep them in the living room overnight with computer monitor light on. She spends her night inside the box now. DO I need to cover the cage with sheet? I used to cover them when they were spending nites in the bedroom. 

A question about food. Do I need to grate or process thru blender all fresh fruits and vegetables? Apples, carrots? 
my list of allowed food has lentils, pumpkin, zuccini... should all of this be cooked? 
My list says tofu. Anyone had experience with it? 

I looked at margarine at the store. Did people mean vegetable "butter-like" spread or real margarine? I bought spread and it is salty (I think all of them have salt as ingredient), Did I need "real" margarine?

Can't I feed cooked egg whites?


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## Fredandiris

Well there are products that allow you to candle the eggs while still in the nestbox but with a penlight it would probably work better if you picked up the eggs to examine them. The light needs to be strong, but not hot. 

The mom will stop incubating after about a little less than a month, or so I've been told. Eventually they do give up if there are no chicks.

I put paper towels on the bottom of my nestboxes because my pair likes to push aside the bedding to get to the bottom when they're making their little bowl shape. It keeps the eggs from touching barebottom. I've also used only paper towels as bedding and it worked very well. You do want something to cover the bottom of the nestbox. Please check out the stickies located in the breeding section for some good info on bedding/assist feeding/etc.

You don't need to cover them if the room is dark enough for them to sleep in.

Um...I didn't really process any of the food I gave my birds, aside from boiling eggs. Just fresh veggies (I did shred carrots), warm and soft pellets, sported seed, and toasted bread with margarine (as well as their normal dry seed and pellets). That was basically the diet I stuck to and I've never had any developmental problems, just plucking from the female. That was resolved when I pulled the chicks. Cooking does destroy vitamins in food so you'll want to stick to fresh food for the most nutrition. If your bird likes its food cooked though, it's better than nothing. I don't have an answer on tofu, although I personally wouldn't it feed it to my birds.

I got real margarine. Not sure what the difference is between spread or margarine but I stuck with margarine to stay on the safe side.

Egg whites and egg yolk contain different amounts of different nutrients. Egg yolk has folate, b12, vitamins a,d, and e while egg whites contains more protein, magnesium, potassium, and phosphorous. So it can be beneficial for yor bird to eat both. Mine won't touch egg whites so I only give egg yolks.


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## Chipper&Trillie

Fredandiris said:


> my pair likes to push aside the bedding to get to the bottom when they're making their little bowl shape.


this is what mine do too. Today I noticed that eggs are almost on the bottom so I pour in more pine shavings, leveled it up and put eggs on top (while parents were out flying). Didn't know they make a little bowl shape. I bought a nesting pad just in case when I was in panic from eggs being laid, maybe I should put it on the bottom for them? 
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...=pla&catargetid=530005150000109501&cadevice=c
Do they know not to poop inside the nest box or how does it stay clean so far? 
What kind of problems with humidity do people normally have? too high or too low? 
What bread do you use for your toast with margarine? do you let margarine melt and then spread it? do you then break piece of bread into small pieces? 
I soaked their regular seed mix in water and got "seeds floating in water" instead of "soft food". But, I have ZuPreem fruit pellets, I just thought soaking in water those. 
What pellets do you use? 
what works best fro sprouting? 
Thank you for all your help.


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## Fredandiris

I've never heard of anyone using nesting pad. I don't even know what it is, really. 

They don't poop inside the box.

Usually humidity is too low.

You should use a nutritious bread like 100% whole wheat. It doesn't really matter how to make the bread, just do it however your birds prefer it. Mine like it in one large piece. I just grab a slice, toast it, and then spread the margarine over it. 

I'm not sure what you mean? Are you trying to sprout the seeds? Some do end up floating in the water but you've got to keep them soaked to sprout them. There are many methods to sprouting seeds and many different types of seeds to sprout. I used my birds' normal seed mix.

I use kaytee natural cockatiel pellets to soak. Mine prefer those. You really only have to pour a little hot water on the pellets, let it sit for a few seconds, then pour out the excess water.


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## Chipper&Trillie

Hi everybody again! 
Let's see what we have:
7 eggs in the nest box and the parents finally incubating properly - he does days, she helps during the days too, she does nights. Honestly, I still haven't figured out if there are any fertile eggs. I don't want to mess up with them too much, and there is not a good light inside. I do believe that some of them are white, while others are pinkish (somebody mentioned that fertile eggs end up being pure white color)
*IS it essential for me to know how many eggs are fertile, if any? *

They started incubating on September 25th, but it took them a few days until they started to sit nights too (at first, she did all days and would get out of the box during nights), so the proper incubation started a few days later than Sept 25th. The last egg was laid Oct 3rd. According to this, *when should we be prepared to have a chick*, if we are to have one? 

Diet. Not much success but still better than nothing at all. 
She eats: green veggies (spinach, kale, would nibble on mostly anything green leafy), she loves my waffles (toaster waffles) - I realize they are not the best, but at least she eats them! I keep offering her bread but can't say she eats it (I buy Ezekiel - sprouted grain bread). She ignoring carrots, apples, and cooked eggs  I do sprinkle brewers yeast on her seed mix (which comes from the bird store and they prepare it themselves, so it supposed to be kind of good). 

I don't see him eating at all. Literally. There is always a feeder inside the cage (where the nest box is) but it stays untouched, I don't know why. She prefers to come to the kitchen table to eat where she has seeds, bath, and I offer her something else. He normally fly to the top of his old cage where we also have a seed feeder, water, and millet spray, but I see him doing it once a day, before he goes to sleep! Is this normal for cock to do when he is incubating? 

*I probably need to get hand feed formula ASAP? which one and where to buy? *


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## Colorguarder08

You'll eventually know which if any are fertile because they will either hatch or they won't there's no real reason for you to have to know if they are fertile or not other than just to know so you can prepare for the expected number of chicks. But the way I see it if your prepared for the total number of eggs then your covered. As far as handfeeding formula I have seen others on multiple forums recommend harrisons, roudybush and zupreem but pretty much all breeders I have talked to detest kaytee.


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## Chipper&Trillie

Thank you.
I thought I need to monitor fertile eggs in case they need help to hatch or something like this. I of course, have no clue how to do it (this is a very new experience for all of us) but I could read and maybe try...


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## SoCalTiels

You can candle eggs past a certain point, I believe after the first week but don't quote me, to get an idea on fertile and infertile eggs, not a breeder so I don't know the specifics on what to keep an eye out for but its a good idea to know what eggs can be expected to hatch and which you can stop hoping for. Would help give a general idea on when the eggs should be hatching in the off chance an assist hatch is needed. 

And actually, I found a different experience on hand feeding. The Kaytee brand seemed to be recommended by almost every source I found as well as any breeder I got birds from. I used Kaytee for Reptar as well, but wouldn't know enough about specific pros or cons to each. It's also usually the only brand available at most retail pet stores in my area.


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## Colorguarder08

it's the only one available in my area too however I think the reason they don't recommend it is that it was recalled a couple years ago. I also hear (I don't know for sure as I have never handfed or bred for that matter) that it's easier to wean the babies on to those brands pellets than feeding kaytee formula and trying to wean them onto harrisons or roudybush.


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## Chipper&Trillie

Thank you! Do I keep baby chicks, if anybody hatch, inside the nest box while parents incubating the rest of the clutch?
Is brooder necessary? what is the chance that parents make it thru without a brooder?


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## Chipper&Trillie

Can chick hatch during the night? 
I have read info about nest box and bedding later than I had to install one, so my nest box is at the bottom of the cage (not as high as possible) and pine bedding is less than 2.5 inches deep (I hope its about 2 inches)
Its 18th day of incubation now... Should I get nest box higher and make the bedding thicker or should I leave everything as is? At this time somebody is constantly at the nest box so its not easy to pick inside.


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## Chipper&Trillie

Also, our male, Trillie, is doing his sitting job great during the day, but he seems to be wanting something different when Cuddles takes over the nest box (which happens at about 7pm). He flies around, doesn't want to go to sleep and behaving pretty anxious. Tonight he ended up in his old little cage and seemed to be quite happy in there. I thought I would let him spend a night there. But then I thought: what would happen if anybody hatches early in the morning and Cuddles needs his help but he is not around? So I grabbed him and took him to the big cage with the nest box inside. 
Should I let him take a break from his parent responsibilities and let him rest til his morning shift starts? 


Hmm, so much controversial info on different websites. Some say wood shavings (except cedar) are perfect nesting material, others - that is should be avoided but paper towels used instead. While the first site mentioned that paper towels wouldn't provide insulation that is needed.

What do people here think of the website cockatielcottage.com (breeding part)? its not the first time I see something there that contradicts what I read before.


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## Chipper&Trillie

I don't quite understand how to do what I should do with the newborn chick (I don't have any yet) while parents protecting him and the nest box? I am not going to mess up a lot but still would have to weigh him, etc. Any advise? 
I spotted a small piece of kale inside the nest box; I am trying to get it out to prevent bacteria growth but the birds wouldn't let me. I don't want to lose a finger


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## Chipper&Trillie

a few more questions. 

- Scale that I can get at grocery stores have 1g (1/8 oz) increments. Won't they work to weigh the chicks? I know I can get more accurate (and more expensive) scales online, but I am wondering about 1g increment scales

- I also got a digital thermometer that looks like a sharp stick. Is this type OK for measuring formula temperature? 

- anyone had experience with LaFeber's Nutri-Start Baby Bird Formula ? its available at PetSmart in my area. Is it better than Kaytee?


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## Chipper&Trillie

Are ZuPreem FruitBlend for cockatiels good pellets? Are they suitable for softening so that parents could feed babies?


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## Chipper&Trillie

Dad is not letting the mom inside the nest box. He is fighting with her. 
Is this behavior normal?
I forced him out of the cage. I heard pip sound that eggs make (I think)

Are my questions not worth answering? 
Dol I need to let him back in? Or only if he is not fighting?


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## SoCalTiels

Don't let yourself think your questions aren't worth answering, it's mostly about who's available to answer. For breeding type situations, most users here don't have the background to help in the way you need, it's nothing against you. 

My experience is limited but I'll try to help a bit for some of the questions. 

- Newborn chicks you should leave in the nest with the parents, super fragile at that stage. Weighing and keeping contact is more days later to keep track of further progress. I wouldn't mess with the chick the first day if it can be avoided. 

- A 1g increment scale should be fine, it's what I used for Reptar. Obviously .1g increments would be better but I don't think it's super necessary. 

-Digital thermometer should be okay, not 100% on that one.

- I used Kaytee personally. I believe the only common rejection of it was that there was a recall of few years ago, obviously has nothing to do with the product available now. I found it to be pretty recommended and honestly the ONLY available brand in any pet store in my entire area, I went to many.

- Zupreem Fruit pellets are what I feed my birds but I'm not really sure how it would relate to being fed to chicks. They aren't among the hardest pellets out there, so I would think a well hydrated parent pair should be okay with them. I know my conures dip them in water before eating, haven't seen this from the cockatiels.

-Keep the male out. If he is causing issues and making it difficult for the female to brood, it's probably best he's kept away. What this means for the future is really dependent on someone who knows this type of situation. I don't know if the female can raise them all on her own, might involve assist feeding. Might seem weird, but I would try to find a local breeder online and just inquire if they would be willing to teach you about hand feeding? Worst they could do is say no. 

I know I don't have the experience or breeding knowledge to really help you out but hopefully a differed opinion can help you before the pros can offer insight.


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## Chipper&Trillie

thank you very much
I just read different sources/ 
what I remember from reading
The chick can be dehydrated, so you need to give 1 drop of pedialyte. No clue HOW I would do this. I can't even imagine how small they would be. 
Or, do I just keep my fingers crossed and pray? BTW, do I need to remove the egg shell, correct? 
I placed small container with water into the cage. I also did my laundry and hang up clothes to dry in the room where the cage is. I also spray our male from the spray bottle near the cage area because this is how he prefers to take his bath (she takes bath normally, in the tub but its in the kitchen)
I will go to the local store (that breed birds) tomorrow. Hopefully nothing really bad happens til then and hope they would teach me something
Another question. Our male is a seed junkie and this is all he eats. She eats a little better (pellets, waffles, green veggies). Can I expect her to be able to feed the chick during this very first days? I presume I still need to monitor the inside of the nestbox in case somebody dies there. 
I just reading all this topics "the crop is emptying slow", etc... do all this applies to later days for those who survive the first days? 
Thank you once again!


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## Chipper&Trillie

At least one baby hatched this morning or at night! I couldn't see very well but I saw that he is yellow and active. 
Except this, nothing else going on. The mom ate as normal (not more than normal), dad had some of his seeds. Now she is sitting lazy outside of the cage.


Will I need to pull out the baby to look at it? how to make sure they feed him??????


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## Chipper&Trillie

What you think of whole wheat bread soaked in cow milk? can it be fed? I read at one source about it but it always worth double checking 

The bird store advised to give frozen veggie mix that has been warmed up with hot water (not cooked)


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## Chipper&Trillie

I see 1.5 broken egg shell halves in the nest box. Must be 2 more babies hatched? I can't see anything but egg shells because father is sitting on whoever is in the nest box. Mom is still outside of the cage (for many hours now). She just ate really well so I will try to take her into the cage to feed the babies.


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## Chipper&Trillie

I think she is afraid to go in because of the dad. Yes, I took her to the cage, she sat on the perch but didn't go into the box. Then the dad came out and wanted to fight her to protect HIS babies  
Again, I forced him out of the cage so she could come into the box. He doesn't eat much, she does. During the transition, I saw the box without parent inside. 3 fluffy yellowish little ones, and 4 more eggs. 

I don't want to create a pattern that only one of them should be taking care of the babies.


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## Chipper&Trillie

I am concerned that our new dad is not eating much. Every time he get kicked out of the nest box, he is anxious about coming back, not about eating. I don;t know if this is going to change. 
She started to eat pretty well.


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## Chipper&Trillie

how do they babysit after the babies are born - always together? no more day/night shifts?


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## Colorguarder08

Chipper&Trillie said:


> What you think of whole wheat bread soaked in cow milk? can it be fed? I read at one source about it but it always worth double checking
> 
> The bird store advised to give frozen veggie mix that has been warmed up with hot water (not cooked)


The milk that is soaked into the bread will make the birds sick as they can't digest lactose (the sugar in milk).


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## devilangel09

HI yes they still take turns in the nest


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## Chipper&Trillie

Thanks everybody! 
I will remove bread soaked in milk - nobody eats it anyway. But they do consume some of milk product, correct? Margarine that was mentioned here may contain milk, also some breads would have buttermilk, etc. I understand the amount of lactose is minimal there. 
I have read that during first two weeks babies need to be fed every 2 hours. Does night sitting parent need to be fed at night as well or should they have enough stored food to last overnight (well, I guess depends how well they eat)?
How do I make sure that babies get enough nutrition? 

I have a problem with the cock. He is literally not eating. He eats seed mix and millet sprays, maybe twice a day, not a big amount. I am afraid to remove millets, because in this case he may not be eating at all. And she will desperately need help feeding them. I have a feeling that all the eggs may hatch (7 total). Do I have to go thru food training with him? I know, I should have done it earlier... Again, this is the first time I am dealing with babies (not voluntary!). I didn't even believe they would hatch  Do you think food training would help to feed the dad?


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## Colorguarder08

buttermilk is made in a way that removes the lactose and margerin has very little if any milk in it to begin with. Now butter is made in a way that removes the lactose as well as yogurt and some cheeses not all but some.


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## dianne

Chipper&Trillie:
I am sorry you are not getting more of the information you need :-(. I know you really care about these eggs/chicks. 
I don't have knowledge to give you. However, I am following your posts and really hope all goes well.


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## Chipper&Trillie

Dianne and Colorguarder08, thank you!
I think it would be useful to rename the thread, yes it all started with the shock of seeing 2 "males" having sex but now its much beyond having birds who had sex  But I can't edit the title anymore. 

For some reasons, parents don't get rid of the egg shells. DO I need to remove them (I was told that they should eat them) to prevent bacteria growth? 

My another, and basically only concern is that they won't be able to provide proper nutrition, because their own nutrition is kind of poor. Cock surprises me a lot. I give him sitting time out for him to EAT, and he doesn't. I can't make the bird eat. She eats more but I am afraid soon she won't have enough. Tomorrow I will try to go see (and learn) hand feeding in the bird store.


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## dianne

Perhaps you should start a new thread in the Breeding section, titled something like "Caring for chicks and parent birds."

Have you looked through the sticky library?


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## Chipper&Trillie

Thanks. Yes, I looked as much as I could but haven't found an organized guide from A to Z for a novice like me, its more like a bit of info here, a bit there, that's why I said "as much as I could", because often thread can take u in a less expected direction.
Yes, I am opening a new thread, thanks for the title.


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