# The worst of the worst!!



## kfelton0002 (Mar 12, 2010)

One of my whiteface lutino babies has been having a kind of slow draining crop for the last couple of days and now all of my younger babies are experiencing the problem. I looked at the new can of formula I have and it is EXPIRED so I'm going to take it back most definitely! It was only a month past date but still! Would that cause slow crop?? 

Until last night the other babies' crops were doing okay. I fed them at work and when I went to give them their last feeding last night I noticed they still had a pretty good amount of food still in there so I didn't give them anything. This morning there was only a small amount of formula in 3 of the babies' crops, but the fourth still looked like it had JUST BEEN FED!! I gave them all some warm pedialyte to kind of loosen the formula, but I'm really worried! I have some sodium bicarbonate and was going to try to give them some of it in the pedialyte, but I wanted to get some opinions first. I am still waiting on their crops to empty completely before I even attempt to feed them any more formula.

I am worried that the little whiteface lutino is beginning to get ill because it isn't as active as the others and shivers even in the warmer. I attempted to gavage the contents but they are too thick and cannot be sucked through the tiny opening of the 10 french urinary catheter that I used. The baby is too small to swallow anything larger than a 10 french, so I don't know what to do!

Oh one more thing! The reason I couldn't suck out the contents is because there was whole seed in the crop! I think the bigger babies are trying to feed the smaller ones and are giving them whole seed because I haven't seen the smaller ones picking at the weaning food!! I'm thinking the chick's crop is either impacted or is starting to develop a yeast or bacterial infection!


What should I do?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

The crops have to be emptied out. Risky...but this also works if your tube is too small....Tip the baby upside down and massage the crop contents towards the throat to expell it crop the crop.

Once empty feed just a small amount of sodium bicarbonate water. If there is even a little digestion this will help flush out the GI tract.

Can you get Ringers? And some 25g needles. I have found that Sub-Q fluids (loose flap of skin near the thigh, or center of the back) may be the only option to get the digestive tract moving.

I sent you a PM with my phone #


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

This is what I use for emptying crops. The catheter MUST have the closed end.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

http://justcockatiels.weebly.com/sour-and-slow-crop-remedies.html

Also use the Spice Remedy in the above link for ALL feedings. When I pull babies I also add a pinch of garlic powder automatically to every feeding for the first week or so. I have been doong this for several years and it has made any crop/digestive problems non-existant

And (((HUGS)))


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## Berdnerd (May 20, 2010)

Oh I hope the babies will be okay! Poor little ones!


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## Jenny10 (Feb 27, 2010)

Oh no, I hope they will be ok.

Hugs

Jenny


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## kfelton0002 (Mar 12, 2010)

I have emptied the baby's crop and she seems to be doing better. There didn't appear to be any budding yeast, but that doesn't mean there wasn't any bacteria. I have been feeding her sodium bicarb water and electrolytes and she has perked up some but is still kind of shivery. Just a little while ago I gave her a very dilute applesause/formula mixture with pedialyte because her crop was emptying again and she seems to be doing a little better. Definitely not out of the woods yet, but she isn't going to get a systemic infection or GI stasis now hopefully. My husband has recommended some liquimycin but we won't be able to get any until Monday. He has some duramycin on hand, but I haven't had any experience in medicating cockatiels so I'd like to run it by Susanne first before I give her anything. Besides the sodium bicarb water what should I be doing to treat my little one?

Thanks Susanne for being there! I was so scared to empty the baby's crop manually by forcing it up and out the mouth, but it has really seemed to help. The other chicks' crops are emptying fine now, but I am worried about their weights. They are still meeting their weight requirements but are on the small side. They don't appear dehydrated and are very vigorous. Even the little sick one with the crop issues still begs like there is no tomorrow! 

Please pray that my little one pulls through and does okay!!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Do the Spice Remedy in the formula. it will act as a natural antibiotic and antifungal, and also be supportive of the immune system.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Also...I don't like using applesauce when there are crop issue. If you have any Papaya tablets crush some of them and add a little powder to each feeding. If you have a Petsmart locally, look to see if they have Prozyme (in the cat/dog section) It will also help. It will thin down the formula so do not thicken it back up. The shivering should stop when the applesauce is discontinued. Most times the shivering is an indication of a slight dehydration problem and applesauce is only going to compound a problem. Also, sometimes adding baby powdered Rice Cereal fortified with iron to the formula (50-50) will help with motility because the iron helps with peristaltic action.


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## Jenny10 (Feb 27, 2010)

I will be wishing and thinking good thoughts for your little ones.

Jenny


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## Berdnerd (May 20, 2010)

I'm so relieved to hear that the baby is doing a little better! I hope she gets all the way better soon!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Praying she gets better soon!!!


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## kfelton0002 (Mar 12, 2010)

They all have received a dose of the spice remedy you recommended along with a thin formula feeding. The whiteface lutino chick has stopped shivering as you said she would once the applesause was discontinued. I am concerned about their weights as they are on the small side. When I pulled my gray chicks, they were twice the weight of my whiteface babies when they were 2 weeks. Their morning weight was 45 grams (17 day old whiteface pied), 33 grams (16 day old whiteface lutino with slow/sour crop), 33 grams (15 day old whiteface lutino), and 38 grams (14 day old normal whiteface). Here is a picture of them after their last feeding so you can tell me how they are looking. 










The one with slow/sour crop is the whiteface lutino on the left. She is acting really good, but was sort of dozing when I took the picture. She has a good feeding response and does not appear to be weak at all. I just need to fatten them up a little. I have been feeding them as I should be, but they just aren't gaining much weight. I made the mistake before of thickening their formula up too much which caused them all to get slow crop and almost costed me one of my wf lutino babies! I am mixing their formula on the thinner side, but it is still within the recommended mixing instructions for their age. Why don't hand fed chicks that have not been parent raised gain weight slower than parent raised chicks?? I noticed that when my grays were still with their parents their crops were as hard as baseballs and full of EVERYTHING! Why didn't they develop slow/sour crop? Is formula more prone to going bad faster in the crop and harboring/growing yeast and bacteria? I am going to add the spice remedy to my formula from now on because I don't ever want to lose a chick again!

Thank you so much Susanne! You are my babies' guardian angel! If the little whiteface lutino turns out to definitely be a female I am going to name her after you! I have already been calling her Susie for short!! I guess if she turns out to be a male then I will just have to call him the boy named Sue!! lol
*Hugs*


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

The babies look great.

OK...a part of the size problem is breeding 'like to like' meaning WF to WF. A better pairing would be a split to a visual. The chicks are more robust and the next generation improves in size. When breeding like to like you can go backwards in quality and size.

And the other thing is that parent fed babies do better than handfed babies.

As far as parent fed babies, they are getting additional enzymes and bacteria sloughed off from the insides of the parents crop...which is why the packed crops don't get sour and the babies digest the food. With day ones someimes you may have to add Prozyme or digestive enzymes for the first week or so.


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## BLESSED'S_WINGS (Apr 14, 2010)

srtiels said:


> http://justcockatiels.weebly.com/sour-and-slow-crop-remedies.html
> 
> Also use the Spice Remedy in the above link for ALL feedings. When I pull babies I also add a pinch of garlic powder automatically to every feeding for the first week or so. I have been doong this for several years and it has made any crop/digestive problems non-existant
> 
> And (((HUGS)))


*I learned something new today! 

I hope that the babies are in perfect condition now!*


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## SftWrmRain (Sep 8, 2009)

I'm thrilled to hear your little ones seem to be pulling through the sour crop scare. I just raised 2 chicks from day one and one developed a bit of slow crop too at one point. I was really worried too, but massaged it constantly between feedings of warm pedialite. It eventually resolved itself but took longer than it took for you since you manually emptied your chick's crop. I read that it is very dangerous to do it that way due to the probability of the chick inhaling bits of the food. Susanne knows best, however, and I'm SO HAPPY you managed to make it work.

Also, thank you to Susanne (again) for all the wonderful detailed information contained in this and other posts. I research until I'm blue in the face, yet always learn more new things from Susanne's invaluable experience first hand. This board is what it is in part due to Susanne's presence.

Good luck to you and keep us posted!!


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