# Obstruction



## larisar (Dec 7, 2010)

Hi, I m wondering if anybody has any ideas about how to help my tiel Cheeky. 
She is white, about 5 years old and has previously been egg bound. 
I noticed a lump, and thought she was again egg bound but the vet has not been able to find an egg on two seperate x-rays. She did however pass a snow pea pod (whole!) on our last visit to the vet. I have no idea how she managed to swallow it but she did. 

Her stools have now been dark green with pieces of bright green which is mush (like mashed snow pea). 
She has lost weight, 6grams but still has a hard lump at the abdomen. I've tried some olive oil by mouth in the hope to allow her to pass whatever might be there. she has also some pain relief and lube by mouth as prescribed by our vet. 
The vet has ruled out fatty lumours etc. There appears to be know other foreign objects that showed up on the x-ray. 

I've added spark (vetafarm) and some calicum to her water to keep her strength up as she is still very skinny, fluffed up and only eating a very small amount. 
Unfortunately I do not know how to crop feed and wouldn't feel confident to start trying on such a sick bird. 
has anybody else encountered a problem like this and can you tell me whether you can feed vetafarms probiotic hand rearing formula by mouth (syringe) as a supplement until she starts eating properly. The only thing she will touch at the moment is millet spray and Im not sure if a lot of that is a good thing.

Any help would be much appreciated. She is a very special bird and I just couldn't bear it if I didn't try anything that might help.
Being holidays our vet is away so I cant take her back there for a couple of days. 
Thanks


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

Im so sorry to hear about cheeky and hope she gets better soon
Others should help you when they come on


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## Abby (Jul 30, 2010)

I hope things get better. I just recently went to the vet because my cockatiel, Minnie, had an unfertalized egg stuck in her. It wasn't exactly egg bound, but almost. I'm not exactly sure what to tell you, other than to get to the vet as soon as you can. I've seen lots of people on all the Talk forums who have had issues because they can't get to the vets around the holidays, it seems to me to be a real inconvenience. Please update though when things get better!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Where are you located?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I copied the info below from my website. BOTH things should help your bird, especially the PROZYME.

If you can post a photo of the problem that would help. You mentioned she was eggbound...thus there is a possiblity she has reproductive problems and might have peritonitis if her abdomen looks large, soft and swollen. In this case she would need agressive treatments of antibiotics and the fluid drained several times from the body. You might consider getting a second opinion from another vet on what is going on with her.
Probiotics







 ​

Not long ago I was researching probiotics and was dismayed to learn that it is not a word in the dictionary, but is a *term comprised of 2 words: Pro meaning 'for', and biotics meaning 'life'* And if you go looking in avian, animal, and human drug books the actual word _probiotics_ is not listed. Therefore probiotics is a term used descriptively that describes a class of non prescription oral medications/supplements (such as acidophilus, lactobacillus) which are used primarily to boost the population of live bacteria in the gastrointestinal (GI) tract which flourish inside the birds digestive tract. Probiotics can be used preventively during periods of stress, such as breeding, molting, when chicks are weaning. With a sick bird, pathogens (disease-causing bacteria) take the place of the good bacteria. They consist of naturally occurring organisms that aid in digestion and inhibit the production of disease producing bacteria. Probiotics help to supplement and replace used up beneficial bacteria in the GI tract. Thus what is happening, especially after antibiotic treatment, is the replenishment of good bacteria which acts to lower inhibit the levels of bad bacteria from becoming pathogenic. Probiotics such as lactobacillus also lower the pH. 

This is beneficial when dealing with slow crop, or when yeast or bacteria is suspected. When pH is reduced this in turn increases the effectiveness of existing good flora in the GI tract. I'm also learning that one of the reasons why heat is so beneficial to sick babies is because it helps to decrease the time needed to kill harmful pathogens when antibiotic and antifungals are used. 


*<<<Some people feel that the birds make their own good bacteria and supplementing it is not needed.>>>*

When a bird is healthy there is no need for probiotics. The body is continually producing and replenishing and maintaining the established population of resident bacteria. When everything is in balance not only does the normal bacterial flora create an environment that is non-supportive of pathogens, it is necessary for the proper assimilation and absorption of nutrients. Things that can disturb this balance are stress, diet changes, vitamin deficiencies, indiscriminate preventative treatments and antibiotics to name a few. Secondary problems such as vitamin K deficiency can result when the bacterial flora is upset because this interferes with absorption/utilizing of K. About the only time you really need to use probiotics is in conjunction with some of the above listed that contribute to disturbing the intestinal balance.

It helps to keep in mind that it is just another non-prescription 'treatment or medication'...and should only be used accordingly. If the bird is healthy there is no need for supplementing with probiotics. Let their body do what they were designed to do, but have on hand the 'tools' to help assist them when it is needed.

I had asked my vet as to yogurt being organic and he said that the yogurt from the grocery store was fine as long as the label did state it included 'live active yogurt cultures' I have tried the powdered Probiotics from various Avian suppliers, the health food store, and with the amount of birds I am constantly feeding I can see the response and improvement especially with hand feeding babies is quicker using plain yogurt. When using commercially made powdered probiotics I had a small portion of babies that would vomit it up. Another breeder up the road from me that also hand feeds large groups of babies noticed the same thing, so we're back to plain and simple yogurt. At the time we were doing flock worming and giardia treatments, and needed to use the probiotics. We both totally depend on our birds for our source of income, thus when anything affects a small % of babies we are hand feeding it gets discontinued.
​* Digestive Enzymes*









​
The enzymes (Prozyme or papaya) are not going to correct the sour crop, or act as a remedy to cure it. Enzymes are more to aid in the breakdown of food, and to boost nutrient absorption in the digestive tract. This can be a dual edged sword. On the one hand the enzymes may help to speed up slow digestion and crop movement. On the other hand, if there is yeast or bacteria in the digestive tract, not only will the enzymes aid in nutrient absorption, but also assist in the absorption of pathogens through the intestinal wall. 
Enzymes will also help when there is an impaction due to dehydration. When a chick gets dehydrated this will slow down digestion, especially in the proventriculus, and ventriculus (gizzard) which is the area 'between' the crop and the intestines. When dehydration occurs the ventriculus/gizzard can start to impact with food. Enzymes added to the formula will help to break down some of this impaction. The enzymes are actually breaking down or pre-digesting the food prior to leaving the crop. There is still some enzyme activity when the food reaches the gizzard. From there the pancreas releases additional digestive enzymes. Little nutrient absorption is done prior to the food entering the intestines.

​


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## larisar (Dec 7, 2010)

Hi everybody, thank you so much for your replies.
I'll try to answer everybody in this reply....I'm new to how to individually reply to you! 
I'm in Queensland Australia. today i sought a second opinion from a vet in after hours. She done another xray and same as the first vet, still cannot find any evidence of a egg. What she did find however was a second mass further up which is not in the shape of anything like an egg or foreign object. She gave me some antibiotics and will see her again on Wednesday to put her under a brief general anaesthetic to have a look. she said that she will try to collapse whatever is in there (the egg like mass) or at least take some cells from it. 
I just need to keep her alive until then. ....she has dropped down to 92g from 100g and breastbone is very prominent...I'm having trouble getting any food by syringe into her but will keep trying..she is picking only at millet spray and drinking water. 
I'll have to decide what to do when the vets get results back from whatever they find on Wednesday.
Thanks again everybody for your replies. Abby, my cheeky is almost identical to your profile pic... gorgeous. xx


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

Im so sorry hope she gets better real soon
Have you got any pics of her


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...the second mas could be several eggs that have broken and impacted against each other. This occurs if the first egg was softshelled and got stuff to the uterine tissue...thus it would block succeeding eggs from traveling down the oviduct, and they would break and the shells fuse together forming a large mass. Sometimes, with stimulation and hydration from the vet the bird will pass the mass, or the vet may have to go in to remove it.

As to the spray millet, let her eat all she wants. Millet is a GREAT food for convalesant birds, and is rich in protein, and gives them some energy. It is NOT a fattening food, meaning puts fat in the body. Since it is a protein source it helps build muscles which need protein.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Just some more thoughts...below is some info I have saved that might be helpful. If you can get a full-spectrum or vita light and have it on several hours a day and close to her cage, this will help her. And since she has had past egg problems, and the impaction may be from several impacted eggs you might want to use some of the info to research and address the calcium needs for her body.
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*The Importance of Calcium*​　
We have all heard that it is important to supply calcium sources, especially when a bird is laying or breeding. The reason why is to provide enough calcium intake to produce strong, dense shell on the eggs, and to also be a preventative to soft of shelless eggs, which can contribute to egg binding and/or dystocia, impaction or prolapse of the uterus.

The most common recommendation is supplying cuttlebone or calcium supplements, and greens or veggies that are rich in calcium. In supplying this we think the bases are covered and aid as a preventative to a hens reproduction problems, yet have a hen that passes a soft shelled egg or is egg-bound…*why?*
* 
*Most times this is not enough. There are several factors that can influence the output of calcium circulating in the bloodstream, which is drawn from the bones while an egg is in the uterus (shell gland). 

*1...Proper lighting plays an important role in good reproductive health of hens*. Either available in the form of real sunlight (not filtered thru glass) or from Full Spectrum Lighting (FSL) In simple terms the skin absorbs the UV (ultra violet) rays from the lighting and the body converts it to useable D3, and this in turn aids the uptake of useable calcium. 

*2...Preventative water treatments such as ACV can change the pH in the digestive tract*. When the pH is higher than 6.5, absorption of phosphorus markedly decreases. Excess free fatty acids in the diet can cause the pH to decrease and therefore, interfere with calcium and phosphorus absorption. In summary, if the intestinal flora and pH is altered this can cause several problems. If preventative treatments are used it is better *to find the cause *and correct it. 

*3...Researching the sources of calcium and other mineral nutrients is very important. *High levels of phosphorus in the blood will inhibit the mobilization of calcium from bone. When this occurs this increases the chances of soft-shelled eggs which can lead to impactions and binding.
You can go online to search for the following: You can look up on this site which foods (Nutrient lists) are high in calcium: 
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ 
 
Below is a listing of what a shell consists of. When researching foods nutrient contents you will want to also look up which greens/veggies foods contain trace elements of the following:
Calcium carbonate: 94-97% 
Phosphorus: 0.3%
Magnesium: 0.2%
Sodium, Potassium, Manganese, Iron and Copper: traces 
Organic matter: 2% 
The small amount of organic matter mostly consists of matrix proteins (mixture of proteins and polysaccharides rich in sulphated molecules) and shell pigment. The matrix proteins are critically important in determining the egg shell structure and serves as foundation for the deposition of calcium carbonate. 

The structure of an eggshell when examined under a high powered microscope will look like a tangled network of mineralized fibers…kind of like looking at the mat in an air conditioner filter. The eggshell is formed around a mat of proteins, which is coated and overgrown by calcium carbonate and other mineral salts. The result is a tough, waterproof package that still allows gas exchange between the inside and the outside, enabling the developing embryo to 'breath', while providing astonishing mechanical strength. The shell has enough calcium carbonate in it, which as the embryo gets close to hatch, it can use this reserve to draw into the body and bloodstream for the developing bones.
　
*NOTE: most greens and veggies contain oxalic acids. *These will bind useable calcium from foods. What you want to do is look for foods that have a *higher* calcium content than oxalic acid. _The *useable calcium *is the difference between the two._ Print out the following tables from both links:
Guinea Lynx ::Oxalic Acid in Selected Vegetables
Guinea Lynx :: Calcium Chart 
Once you print out the 2 links above, you will have to look at the listed calcium level in this link: http://www.guinealynx.info/diet_ratio.html Deduct the oxalic acid levels to give you a clearer pix of the calcium to phosphorus ratios. The calcium to phosphorus ratio should be 2:1.
 
*Examining and providing the best sources of calcium does not stop at providing good shell quality. 

*During the last 15 hours of shell formation (when the egg is in the uterus, also called a shell gland), calcium movement across the shell gland reaches a rate of 100-150 mg/hr. This process draws calcium from two sources: diet and bone. Intestinal absorption of calcium in the diet is about 40% when the shell gland is inactive, but reaches 72% when active. This time closely coincides with late afternoon or the dark hours for the layer. Having higher calcium levels in the gut during this time is important to ensure calcium is being taken from the diet and not bone.

*NOTE: We are warned not to provide sources of sodium to our birds, *but many can go to the extremes of eliminating all sources of sodium and this can have an negative effect on a laying hen. The lack of (or deficiency) trace minerals and salt can be contributing factors to soft shelled eggs, and poor uterine muscle tone. This is also true of many birds that die of egg binding. Salt/sodium aids in the muscle contractions. When there is a deficiency there can be a loss of muscle tone to expel the egg. Therefore in your researching on a diet supplying needed calcium, and other trace minerals, try to include sources of sodium.

The need for a good source of calcium does not stop at supplying it prior to egg laying. The calcium is drawn into the developing embryo as it grows through the vascular network of blood veins radiating into the body from the yolk. During this time the embryo draws calcium from the shell to strengthen developing bones. If the calcium in the shell is insufficient this can contribute to weaker bones, and problems such as splayed leg , soft flexible leg bones, and/or fractures forming within days after hatch. For good bone growth and strength these post hatch problems can be avoided by supplying food sources rich in calcium and trace minerals to the feeding parents.


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## larisar (Dec 7, 2010)

Hi all, 
Just wanted to say thanks again for all your valuable info. 
Unfortunately, Cheeky passed away while under anaethetic. The vet found an egg (not completely formed) as the lower mass in her abdomen and the other mass higher up was a cyst/tumour. slightly larger than the thumb nail and about as round as the thumb itself in size. They removed this but she just didn't have the strength to come out of the anesathic. the vets cut the larger cyst/tumour in half to see what actually was inside of it and it was hard, no fluid. I'm getting some more info from the vets today as I wasn't really paying attention to what she was telling me when I picked Cheeky up to bring her home yesterday. for everybody's further info I will post again to let you know if there is a name for it. 
.....it's amazing to think that such a little being can impact so much on your life..she changed me as a person and I miss her more than words can describe....and although our time together was cut short, I would not have wanted her to be in any pain. 
Please everybody...give your tiels the biggest headscratches you can muster up and tell them how much you love them. 
xx


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## tielmom (Aug 4, 2010)

I am really sorry for your loss...how heart breaking


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm sorry for your loss. You and the vet did everything you could to help her but sometimes our best isn't enough.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

im sorry to hear this. you tried your best and so did the vets. im sure she knows this as well.


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## xxxSpikexxx (Jul 30, 2007)

Iam so sorry to hear about Cheeky  You were a great tiel owner doing everything you could for her


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