# Bird in trouble!! Was egg bound last night and may have another egg on the way!!



## Malta (Apr 3, 2010)

Hi everyone. This is my first time posting and I will get to the introduction page soon I promise but my first concern is, of course, my bird. I have a six year old female cockatiel who I think may be a chronic egg layer (three clutches a year). 

I'm a college student (University for you Europe readers) and she always seemed to lay eggs right after I went back to school after holidays (like I said, three times a year). When I came home from school almost exactly 2 weeks ago my little Malta had a few eggs in her cage. My mom said that they had been there for a while (I really don't know when they were layed, we usually take them out after about a month or so) so I took them out. Also I cleaned the heck out of her cage. My mom doesn't really clean the thing when she is laying so it was filthy. I was actually concerned for both her health and mine - epic nastiness. 

About a week after that (a week ago now) she layed an egg. I was a bit perplexed because I don't think she had ever had two clutches so close together before but I desided to let her do her thing and just keep a close eye on her. 

Turned out to be a good idea. Yesterday morning she was sitting in the corner with the two eggs that she had already lain (normal) but she seemed to be abnormally tired and every once in a while give a little squeeze like she was trying to lay or poo (not normal). I immediately called my mom who had been around for the other layings and asked if it was normal. She said she had no clue, that she was probably fine, and I should hang out to see if I could witness a laying. 

I was still pretty worried but I waited a bit so see if my mom was right. When a bit of time had passed I KNEW something was wrong so I sprung into action. I lubricated her vent with aloe (it was the only slippery thing I could find), and stuck her on a wet warm towel with a heating pad on a low setting. This upset her and she started wandering around to try to get back to her cage (I seriously COULD NOT get her to sit on the towel, I even put the other eggs there to try and get her to think it was a nest). At this point I noticed a pretty sizable lump on her belly that I assumed that was the egg that was stuck. 

(By the way, this whole time I was making frantic phone calls to any vet or avian clinic I could find the phone number to. None of them would even talk to me unless I was A - already a client or B - brought the bird in. They wouldn't even tell me what I could do to stabilize her in order to make the trip!! I live in a small town and there aren't any specialized bird vets even _remotely_ nearby.)

I had no options other than to try and help her pass it at home.  Anyway, I did all the things that I had already mentioned and when none of that worked I _very_ gently started to massage her belly to move the egg towards her vent. She was not happy with this but after a few seconds she let out a loud squawk and laid the biggest turd I have EVER SEEN on my hand. It was a dark color, very wet (kinda like a swamp, it was nowhere near solid but it was not a liquid either), and there was so much of it that I think it could have easily taken up as much room as an egg (it covered my entire palm). After this the lump in my bird's abdomen was gone and she seemed MUCH more chipper. I was still really worried for her but I thought that maybe she had just been really constipated and I had simply helped her pass a really difficult poo. 

I still took her to the local vet, who wasn't a bird specialist but he still "sees" birds (I think he is full of it and should just stick to dogs and cats but what do I know?). Anyway, I took her in and she was happily alert and very curious about her surroundings. (I figured that it was the blissful relief of one released from the pains of constipation.) The vet popped in poked her stomach for a bit and declared that she wasn't egg bound. I tried to tell him my story and explain to him about the epic poo but he kept cutting me off and wouldn't let me finish. He whisked away and I left the vet slightly bemused but relieved she wasn't egg bound.

Not at all satisfied I popped her back into her cage and made a few more phone calls until I found an avian specialist who would talk to me. The man was a saint - he listened to me, was understanding, and seemed to really know his stuff. He told me that the color may indicate internal bleeding and to keep a close eye on her to see if it persisted.

I did, she seemed fine until about 7 in the evening. IT WAS HAPPENING ALL OVER AGAIN!  She was tired looking (she had looked alert and had seemed to be normally nesting until then), seemed to be struggling, and was taking very deep controlled breaths (like she was in pain). I went into action and started all over again: lubrication, warm wet towel, and gentle massaging. She passed a turd that was about a third to half of the size of the last one, but still pretty enormous. I KNEW this was bad so I started trying to find places to take her. I found I an emergency clinic about half an hour away and I left for it as quickly as I could. 

They took an x-ray and determined that YES, she indeed was egg bound. (LYING @$^%**&^ VETERINARIAN!!!) They gave her fluids, a calcium supplement, and morphine. They wanted to keep her overnight but I tearfully told them that I couldn't afford it. The x-ray and the medication had already cost me $400 and I could not afford the bill of a night time stay ($800!!!). I took her home filled up the bath tub with freakishly hot, steamy water and got ready for a long night of worrying and a possible death. 

She passed the egg (THANK GOD) but I'm worried about what all of this has done to her. I can't find anything on the internet about what to do for a bird recovering from egg binding and I don't know if there are any side effects that I should be on the look out for (could it damage her insides, or effect her health in any other way?!). She seems tired from last night and I think her appetite may be down. The emergency clinic gave me some calcium glucocinate which I will be giving to her faithfully for the next ten days, but I don't know if she is done laying or not. What can I do to make sure that this doesn't happen to the next one (possibly coming tomorrow) and how can I help her recuperate from last night's? She's on a all seed diet (that has bits of dried veggies in it) which I swear to god is getting mixed with pellets after this cycle is over. I've tried giving her vegetables in the past and she has always completely ignored them. (I put some broccoli in her cage today anyway.) How can I help her keep up her strength for the next laying?!?! What if I find that she hasn't been eating? (I'm not positive if she has been or not) If she isn't how can I sustain her? I have a syringe for the calcium supplement and, if necessary, water, but what do I do about food?!

Please answer quickly, I want my baby to live; not die painfully with a bound egg or waste away from weakness and hunger.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

(((HUGS))) The MOST IMPOTANT thing that she needs is proper lighting.....meaning a Vita or full spectrum lighting above her cage. This will help greatly as far as utilizing calcium in her body. It does not matter how much calcium is supplied in the diet or is supplemented, some hens will have difficultys using the calcium eaten. The lighting is a source of 
Vitamin D3, which is vital for absorption and mobilization of calcium during shell synthesis. 

You need to ask the vet if the shell was normal thickness, or if it was soft shelled.


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## Peanutbutter (Jun 29, 2009)

She's pretty darn lucky to have you.

Laying 2 clutches in a row is pretty common... it's possible since her first clutch went missing she was trying to replace them. My own girl has doubled up clutches a few times too.

If the weather is okay outside some natural sunshine would be great for getting her D3. (not filtered through a window, put her outside for a bit each day)

You can try offering her a dish of pellets now... no harm in offering. My two took to Zupreem and Roudybush fairly quick.

As far as trying to discourage laying... 
Keep scritches/petting strictly limited to the head & chin. If she trys to mate with any particular toy, remove it.

Limit seeds... only offer what she will eat, No extra each day... dump it out at bedtime. 

Cover her cage- Put her to bed early & let her sleep late. Shorter days mean Winter time & should help curb her desire to lay. Holly needs about 13-14 hour nights when she gets nesty.

and I've read that Peas do something to reduce hormones as well... so if she will try them, offering her a pea might be helpful.

Best of luck.


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## Malta (Apr 3, 2010)

Ok, so I went to the pet store as soon as my parents would let me today and bought her some Lafebers Cockatiel Nutri-Berries and some dried fruit and veggies. She kinda sorta thought the nutri-berries were ok and after I cut the dried fruit into small pieces and pretended that I was eating them she kinda tongued them before chucking them away (progress from thinking that they were aliens out to get her). I couldn't find a UVB light that wasn't meant for reptiles (and I didn't want to hurt her with something that was too powerful) so I'm going to order one online. Anyone have any suggestions or preferences? 

Anyway, I put her outside for a bit today because I really didn't think that I could wait for the light because she was *shaking in her cage while she was sitting on the eggs*!  Isn't that a sign of calcium deficiency?? Or is it an even worse problem that I'm not aware of yet?!? 

I don't really know if it was the right thing to do or not because she seemed pretty stressed by it and wouldn't sit on her eggs while she was outside.
(By the way, my parents were being so God-awfully unhelpful while this was all going on. We are painting our kitchen this weekend and they got pretty angry everytime I ran off to see if she was ok. DIDN'T THEY KNOW I WAS TRYING TO SAVE HER LIFE?! They thought I was overreacting  ) Because of my indentured servitude I couldn't sit with her while she was outside and because all of the paint prepping both the dog and the cat were outside too. They thought the bird was neat - she didn't share the sentiment. They made her nervous and I couldn't go outside to comfort her. I covered half of her cage with a towel so that she could get some shade if she needed to and gave her plenty of water, along with the previously mentioned treats. 

Like I said, I really don't know if this was the right call because when I went outside to move her cage back inside I found three very precise drops of blood on the bottom of the cage. My heart stopped and my stomach dropped down to the tips of my feet. I thought that it had come from her vent, and if that was true I would have to try to IMMEDIATELY get her to a vet (which I knew would just make my parents think I was trying to get out of helping with the kitchen and get even more angry with me). I started checking her all over and I found a small spot on her side (above the thigh, under the wing) that had dried blood on it. Also I noticed that she had two wing feathers missing (no blood there). It was better than internal bleeding but still had me really worried. I don't know if it was from a panic attack or what, if so I CAUSED IT!!  

My parents are calling me again so I have to go but WHAT SHOULD I DO?? How can I help her!?!?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I'll leave it to more knowledgeable people to answer the egg-related questions. But I will say this: birds have much more sensitive respiratory systems than we do and paint fumes can kill. If the house is being painted she's much better off outside than inside. Normally it's desirable to move a bird to a completely different house until the one being painted has aired out thoroughly but that could be difficult since there's an ongoing medical problem. At the very least, keep her in a room as far as possible from the paint fumes, with the door shut and the windows open and maybe a fan blowing too - I'm not sure whether it's best to have the house air blowing out or the fresh air blowing in.

Also, be very careful when you take her outside. There can be unexpected danger from predators - hawks, snakes, dogs and cats, even raccoons. Don't leave her unattended if there's any chance that something could try to attack her.


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## xxxSpikexxx (Jul 30, 2007)

Iam glad you could get her to a vet who knew what they were doing  That is good that they gave you a calcium supplement to give her. I would also be careful and make sure nothing that can be harmful to your tiel is being done in the kitchen. Good luck and keep us updated on her progress


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## jc119007 (Dec 28, 2009)

I don't really have much info/advice concerning the egg-bound problem, but in terms of calcium, does she have a cuttle bone or mineral block in her cage? If she's too weak to move or doesn't move much, you could always grate the mineral block and/or the cuttle bone (?) so that when she eats she'll get some calcium too. You can also get some drops to put in her water which might help.
Good luck (((HUGS))) and keep us updated on your progress.


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## luther349 (Apr 5, 2010)

strange my birds dont mate at all. i never have a egg problem.


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## spraymillet (Mar 2, 2010)

I have been reading this thread and I hope your bird is still ok!!


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## Malta (Apr 3, 2010)

You guys are great.  Yes, she does have both a mineral block and a cuddle bone and she uses both vigorously. I've been trying to get her to eat veggis but not much luck on that front (I know, it will take forever). She's doing a LOT better but I'm still keeping an eye on her. She's got four eggs now (and I'm REALLY hoping she's done now). She laid one on Easter so I guess she thinks that she's a bunny now . Thank you all so much for the support and I'll continue to keep you updated!


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## Malta (Apr 3, 2010)

Ok, I was giving Malta her calcium just now and my hand bumped against her chest. I could pretty clearly feel her keel bone. Is it normal for birds to loose that much weight when they are laying or is it the stress from egg binding/vet visits? Do you guys think it might be something worse? The closest avian vet is half an hour away and I don't want to stress out my bird any more than I have too. I've scared her enough lately (poor thing). Even though I have seen her occasionally eat I moved her food bowl closer to her nesting site to see if she'll eat more when it's nearer. I've been watching her and I think that she has been using her mineral block way more than she has been eating. I really don't know what to do, she's never acted this way before. I mean, she has always protected her eggs but she has never done it to the point of neglecting herself before. I'm really worried about her.


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## Malta (Apr 3, 2010)

Oh man..... I've been researching and I think she might have fatty liver!  She's been having very large green droppings which before I thought may have been because she was nesting but now I've been reading may be a sign of fatty liver!! Oh geez I need to get her help! I just hope I don't kill her with the stress of getting her to the vet!


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## luther349 (Apr 5, 2010)

it may be due to her having eggs. i had a bugie do this and the bird litterly would not leave the nest the bird starved its self. even putting food by the nest didn't work. so sometimes the best thing to do is remove the eggs. but by the sounds of your bird shes a chronic layer. 

a chronic hen can lead to all kinds of health problems. the life span of a constent breeding bird of this type is only 2 years vs 15 to 20 to ones you don't allow to breed. 

so you have to discourage her from attempting to breed. remove anything from the cage she can use as a nest. she should stop laying eggs. unless of course you are breeding your bird. even then only put things that can be used as a nest when your ready for them to breed.


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## jc119007 (Dec 28, 2009)

I know it's a stressful situation, but don't try panic too much- like luther said, the big droppings may have something to do with the egg laying, have you tried calling the vet for a second opinion? I can call mine anytime for advice and he's happy to give it too me, if he thinks I should come in he'll tell me.
Coming back to the eating, if she's not keen on eating veggies, have you tried making birdie bread? My bird won't touch veggies, but when I made some bread from the recipe I got from this forum she finished the whole plate off in four days  In the beginning I froze some of it but the very next day I was pulling it out of the freezer!! That way you can sneak it in on the sly 

Here's the link:
http://www.talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=13116


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## Toirtis (Mar 5, 2010)

Malta said:


> OI couldn't find a UVB light that wasn't meant for reptiles (and I didn't want to hurt her with something that was too powerful) so I'm going to order one online. Anyone have any suggestions or preferences?


Same bulbs, different packaging...the reptile bulbs are just fine...buy those, just make sure that you are buying one of the 5.0 or higher fluorescent bulbs.


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## luther349 (Apr 5, 2010)

yea any uv light will due. just place it away from the bird. like the sun to much can overheat the bird. so keep it indirect.


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## Siobhan (Mar 21, 2010)

If you're in college, you're an adult and you should make it clear to your parents that they don't get to "let" you go to the pet shop or take your bird to the vet. I hope your baby gets over this soon with no ill effects.


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## luther349 (Apr 5, 2010)

well it depends if he has the money or has to ask his parents for it. collage can run you pretty broke. but i agree if your in collage you parents dont let you do anything. you just do it. get your bird and go to the vet and if they have any arugment tell them to shutup. may sound mean but sometimes you cant let igorence of others rule you. 

trust me im 27 and on my own and my parents still try to run me. it normally end with me hanging up on them. my parents think im the worst guy on earth heh. but in realty im actually a pretty genres guy. they just took advantage of that to many times.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Reptile bulbs have too much UVB for birds and may burn birds' eyes. It happened to a member of this board - see the thread at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=6686

The Birds & Lighting website has some excellent information (main page at http://users.mis.net/~pthrush/lighting/index2.html ). From http://users.mis.net/~pthrush/lighting/spectrum.html : "Birds and reptiles have completely different illumination and dietary requirements; it is an error to translate the application of lighting for reptiles to practice with birds...Unnecessarily increasing the UVA/UVB to peak levels may cause problems to present themselves in the form of retinal degeneration, cataract formation, and calcium/bone disorders...The presence of UVB is not necessary for birds to convert this form to usable and sufficient levels of Vitamin D. Given this, use of the reptile series lamps is not appropriate for general aviculture. Unless the bird has a Vitamin D deficient calcium metabolism problem or is overproducing eggs and depleting calcium, reptile series and high output UVB devices should never be considered except as a temporary treatment procedure... Never use reptile or high output UV devices except as treatment devices at the instruction of a qualified avian veterinarian." 

From http://users.mis.net/~pthrush/lighting/hotspots.html : "For use with birds, bulbs intended for reptile use were often the lamps of choice. This method had a long and colorful history in the poultry industry. Two problems were noted with chickens, however. It was difficult to prevent cannibalistic behaviors, and the birds were highly susceptible to tumors. We know now that these things were the result of unbalanced incandescent light." 


From http://hb.holisticbirds.com/pages/elighting.htm: "Many problems arose in the early days of lighting and birdkeeping, where little was understood or practiced in the way of balanced nutrition. This was in combination with the use of reptile series fluorescent lamps which produce UVB for vitamin D synthesis in reptiles. It was simply too much for birds, and sometimes led to cataract formation, vitamin D toxicity, and retinal degeneration... Reptile lights that truly are full spectrum (NOT reptile basking lights) should work as well - but most of them produce a considerable amount of heat which is good for the reptiles but not necessarily good for birds"


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## luther349 (Apr 5, 2010)

thats why i said not to place any uv close to the bird.


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## Malta (Apr 3, 2010)

My Bird is going to be ok!!!! You guys have been here for me through the whole thing so I just had to tell you! I took her to the vet and he found two things that needed fixing. After laying 6 eggs (with her egg-binding adventure thrown in) her reproductive tract was inflamed - which was putting pressure on her intestines and causing her to retain fecal matter (which would be pretty painful for her). This explains why her droppings were so enormous and why she was holding on to them for so long. I think this was the main reason that she was acting sick - her insides were/are all screwy and that is just not a comfortable position to be in. The vet gave her a shot to help reduce the swelling on her poor reproductive tract which will also (hopefully) give some relief to her intestines. The vet also did a gram stain and found a mild bacterial infection that he gave me antibiotics for (they should also help the inflammation too). 
I'm so happy!! It's such a relief to finally know what is wrong and know that I can fix it!!   MY BABY IS GOING TO BE OK!!


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

Soooo good to read. That poor bird has gone through a lot. Lucky she has a great owner who obviously cares for her A LOT !

So glad she will be ok and that you have found the problems.


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## chocotiel (May 19, 2010)

Hooray, glad that your bird is okay!


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## xxxSpikexxx (Jul 30, 2007)

Iam glad she is going to be ok


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## Dmcflygirl (Jun 4, 2010)

Malta said:


> You guys are great.  Yes, she does have both a mineral block and a cuddle bone and she uses both vigorously. I've been trying to get her to eat veggis but not much luck on that front (I know, it will take forever). She's doing a LOT better but I'm still keeping an eye on her. She's got four eggs now (and I'm REALLY hoping she's done now). *She laid one on Easter so I guess she thinks that she's a bunny now *. Thank you all so much for the support and I'll continue to keep you updated!


I laughed 

Good Luck with your baby!!!


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