# Taming Technique



## tweety20 (Oct 16, 2011)

I know some of you will jump down my throat for this but I was getting nowhere with trying to tame my tiel in the cage so I just reached in and got her. I got her out and have had her with me for a few hours now and she's only flew away a couple times. When I got her out it's like she transformed from a scared little bird to a semi tame bird. I was just wondering if she would ever trust me this way or if I'm only furthering her distress?


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

Not going to jump down your throat, but you will never form a bond with her by grabbing her out of the cage, this is only making her trust you a lot less, if at all. 

Have you read this thread yet: "Mutual Agreement" Taming, A Helpful Guide to Skittish and Aggressive Birds? Here is another great article as well: _Good Bird Inc_ Parrot Training Talk: Help! My Parrot Wont Step Up! 

It takes time, and you need to be patient, go at _*her *_pace, not _*yours*_. Pushing her is not going to tame her any faster, it doesn’t just happen overnight, it can take weeks, sometimes months for them to gain your trust, and form a bond with you. You want to bond with her basing it on trust, and grabbing her is only going to make her more fearful of hands and never have trust in you.


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## tweety20 (Oct 16, 2011)

Why is she only really skittish in her cage but I take her in my room and she's fine?


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

How is she acting when she's with you? Does she seem excited to see you? Is she chirping or acting friendly, or is she just sitting there accepting her fate? It could be that she _seems_ tame but is just being submissive because she knows she has no choice. I don't think this is a good way to gain a bird's friendship, even if it makes her "handleable."

I have a tiel who is extremely fearful of hands. She's not tame. But after three months of letting her be and showing her I was not a threat, she started coming near me on her own. I may not have a totally docile, hand-tame bird yet, but you can't beat the feeling of a skittish bird flying to you to check you out because it's _her choice_. It feels so good that she did that on her own, and I don't have to wonder if she's there because she wants to be or because she's given up resisting.

I am not your tiel and I don't know what she's thinking! But, this method is called flooding and it is discouraged in the avian community today. I personally would not use it.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Why is she only really skittish in her cage but I take her in my room and she's fine?


Her comfort zone changes when she's in different places. If she spends most of her time in the cage, this is the safest place that she knows and she's reluctant to leave it for a place that she's less familiar with.

When you take her out of the cage and into a different room, the only familiar thing in the room is you. So you suddenly become her comfort zone, the place where she feels safest. 

Luring her out of the cage with millet spray or some other attractive treat is a better technique than grabbing her. Food bribery and/or positive reinforcement build trust and grabbing builds distrust. An occasional grab isn't going to permanently ruin your relationship - we all have to do it once in a while, for grooming or medical treatment or because there's no other way to do something that needs to be done. But you definitely don't want to make a habit of it.

I disagree that grabbing and holding a bird for a few seconds in order to get it out of the cage is flooding. Flooding would be grabbing a terrified bird and holding it until it was exhausted and gave up on trying to struggle free. The point of flooding is to subject someone to something that scares them until they're so overwhelmed and burned out that they stop reacting. It can be a legitimate treatment for human phobias, assuming that the person understands the treatment, consents to it, and has been properly prepared for it. It's not justified at all with animals, who can't understand or consent to the process. If you frequently grab an animal, it may not be actual flooding but you are teaching it learned helplessness - the idea that it has no freedom of choice and has to submit to your demands - and this isn't psychologically healthy.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

_I was getting nowhere with trying to tame my tiel in the cage so I just reached in and got her_

Does this not technically count as flooding? If so, it's still a very negative association with hands. I've seen first-hand the damage that _grabbing_ an untame bird can do and I would never suggest it to anyone. I'm now working with a bird that was grabbed before trust was gained and it's been months and months of patience and kindness and still she hates my hands (though she likes me). I'd give anything for her not to have gone through that.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Does this not technically count as flooding?


No, it doesn't. It doesn't sound like the bird was terrified, and it doesn't sound like the bird was held for any longer than necessary to get it out of the cage. Flooding is subjecting someone to an overwhelming fear until physical and emotional exhaustion leaves them too burned out to feel any more fear.

When a person or animal is a bit nervous about something (as opposed to being seriously frightened), it can sometimes be beneficial to push them out of their comfort zone so they can experience the thing they were worried about and discover that there really wasn't anything to be nervous about, and find out that it's actually enjoyable. So I'm not opposed to all instances of making a bird come out of the cage, but it isn't something that I'd actually recommend to anyone without being there to observe the situation in person. If you're going to be a little bit pushy, it's better to do it by asking for step ups and bringing the bird toward the cage door on your hand until the bird decides to actually stay on your hand and pass through the door. You're not waiting for the bird to decide of its own free will that it wants to come out of the cage, but you are giving it the ability to decide whether it will stay on your hand and come out or jump off and stay inside.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

I did approach my cockatoo a little more boldly and confidently at first, because I knew he was hand-fed and hand-tame (he just didn't know ME yet). Without knowing how scared or okay this tiel really is with humans, I guess it's hard to say how she will be affected by this kind of handling. Every bird is different.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> I guess it's hard to say how she will be affected by this kind of handling. Every bird is different.


Yes, and it's also hard to say how sensitive the human is in judging what the bird is ready for and how they go about accomplishing the goal.

I'll be honest: I grabbed a few birds myself a couple of hours ago. The chicks simply do not want to go back into the cage at bedtime and it would be dangerous to let them sleep on top of the cages, which is what they want to do. I don't think that it technically qualifies as an act of free will if I pursue them until they get tired and stop resisting, and I think it's more humane to get it over with quickly. The chicks aren't afraid, just annoyed, and I don't think it's psychologically damaging to insist that they do what I say every now and then. Nobody gets to do exactly as they please 100% of the time, and that even applies to wild cockatiels who can sleep wherever they want to unless a tougher bird has decided that he wants the same spot. Anyone with more than one tiel in the same cage has heard the squabbles over sleeping spots at bedtime, and the chicks are worse about it than the adults are. A little push and shove is a natural part of life in cockatiel society.

I respect my birds' autonomy in other ways and I do lots of things that they enjoy, like holding treats in my hand for them to eat. I think it's the overall quality of the relationship that matters most, and occasionally manhandling a bird that isn't excessively frightened by the process isn't going to do a huge amount of damage if your relationship is positive in other ways. It's definitely not a trust-building exercise, and it's best to save it for situations where it's actually necessary and there ain't no way the bird is going to voluntarily do what you need. There are better techniques for getting the bird to come out of the cage and play.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

It seems like you only grab/man-handle birds you know won't be mentally scarred by it, which is good. I'm just saying I wouldn't do it with a skittish bird who is on the fence about trusting humans, in a new home. Given the option I'd rather err on the side of caution and not do it. I let Astrid sleep on top of the cage all the time and she's fine. If I thought I could just put her in with force and she'd forgive me, maybe I would...but it would completely destroy her trust in me.


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## tweety20 (Oct 16, 2011)

I did not hold her down except long enough to get her out and comfort her. I had my hand over her wings and my first two fingers around her neck.(I wasn't choking her btw.) I took her to my bedroom and started getting her to step up a little bit. She relaxed enough to go up to my shoulder and sit, get in my hair and chew on all my sparkly jewelry(she got mad at me for making her stop). I just let her be and the couple times she flew away I went to her and she stepped up. I wasn't forcing her or holding her down. She actually went over to a friend of mine and just walked right up to her shoulder so I know she isn't deathly afraid of humans. I did not sit there the whole time with my hands holding her down and she stayed with me a good three hours.


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## tweety20 (Oct 16, 2011)

I've had her since may so she's not new.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

It sounds like she is already somewhat trusting of humans. That's good! I know this method would go horribly wrong on a lot of birds but it seems to have worked for you. Congrats on the progress.


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## tweety20 (Oct 16, 2011)

Now if I could get her out without having to go through this it would be wonderful.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Why not just let her come out on her own when she's ready? Now that she's seen you're okay she might be more eager to.


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## tweety20 (Oct 16, 2011)

I don't know. I think I could leave the cage door open forever and she wouldn't come out.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I completely agree that it's not appropriate to grab just any bird; you need to have a fairly good understanding of the bird's personality and how they're likely to react to the handling. Most of my adult birds go into the cage peacefully at night, but I frequently have to grab Henry, who is four years old and knows perfectly well that he has to sleep in a cage at night. He's definitely not scared and most of the time he isn't even annoyed by it; testing the limits is part of the bedtime routine for him. He's the sassiest, least fearful bird in the house, and he loves me and flies to me frequently for treats or kisses. He doesn't do head scritches but gets jealous if I scritch anyone else. 

As for the chicks... when it's time to open the cage door in the morning I like to position myself so they have to step up on my finger in order to come out of the cage. You should see how cooperative the little suckers are then.


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## tweety20 (Oct 16, 2011)

I will try again tomorrow. I think she responded positively today. I just hope that it wasn't out of fear but understanding that I wasn't going to hurt her.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Have you tried food bribery? It would be easier and more beneficial if you could talk her into coming out of the cage with millet. She may even step on your finger for it now. It can't hurt to try! Glad that you have made progress though!


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## tweety20 (Oct 16, 2011)

I have tried but she freaked out because I was holding it. I'm out of millet but I'll be sure and pick up some tomorrow. Maybe she will accept it now.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Personally, if she were my bird and she was still that uncomfortable with my hands I'd probably back off and let her come out of the cage when she was ready (even if it takes several months). Bird time and human time are not the same...a month to us is nothing to them. Unless the grabbing and taking her out of the cage has made her a lot tamer and more okay with hands, i do not think I'd do it again. Just my opinion.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If she's afraid to take the treat directly from your hand, you could open the cage door and put the treat just outside the door to encourage her to come out of the cage to get it. If that's too scary for her, you can put the treat just inside the door and gradually move it outside. To get her used to your hands, you can hold the treat up to the cage bars at other times so she can take it from your fingers with the cage bars between you; for a hand-shy bird, this feels a lot safer than eating from your hands with no barrier between you. 

It sounds like the problem here might be a combination of hand shyness and feeling insecure about the world outside the cage. Grabbing her and bringing her out is a shortcut solution that doesn't sound like it's particularly traumatizing her, but you never want the use of force to be your main training technique so don't do this often. The slower methods that give her control over the process are a much more positive way to go.


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## tweety20 (Oct 16, 2011)

I have her with me right now. I still had to grab her but as soon as she was out she went right to my shoulder. I gave her some millet as a reward which she gladly took. Tomorrow I will try to get her to eat some out of my hand in the cage and see if she will come out on her own or step up for me. I do NOT wish to have to grab her forever. I still don't get why she is only hand-shy IN the cage but when she is out she is fine with me petting her and stepping up. I would also like to know how to make her stop chewing on my earrings.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

How to make her stop chewing on your earrings: take them out! lol. I can't wear jewelry around my birds at all.


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## tweety20 (Oct 16, 2011)

moonchild said:


> How to make her stop chewing on your earrings: take them out! lol. I can't wear jewelry around my birds at all.


That's an obvious solution but I wanted to know if there was a way to teach her not to play with them when I have them in. I tell her no but she does it again five seconds later.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

As far as I know, not wearing jewelry is the only way to make a bird stop playing with it. Jewelry is interesting and appealing to cockatiels and that attraction is more powerful than anything you say to them about it. If you have something more interesting available you can use that to distract the bird from the jewelry, but they'll probably go right back to chewing on it when they lose interest in the distraction.

If she is only hand shy in the cage, it probably isn't really fear of the hand; it's the expectation that you're going to take her out of the cage and she's nervous about that. My chicks are pretty good about stepping up unless they think I'm going to put them in the cage, and then it's heck no, we won't go.

One way to reduce the fear of stepping up in the cage is to frequently work on step ups in the cage where you put her back down still in the cage and give her treats and praise for cooperating. The idea is to show her that stepping up inside the cage doesn't necessarily mean that she will be asked to come out of the cage. Once she's comfortable with getting on your hand and then going back down to the same place on the perch, you can work on having her step up and then you put her down in a different part of the cage, so she gets used to traveling around on your hand inside the cage. Then progress to moving her toward the door on your hand but not bringing her all the way out. 

This is a variation of the technique that I use to teach reluctant birds to go back in the cage. I'll dangle a treat in front of them while I put them in the cage, deliver the treat, then leave the cage door open so they can come right back out again if they want to. It lets them get used to being put in the cage with a nice reward and no negative consequences (they think that being locked inside is undesirable). Even when I actually do plan to lock the door, the treat helps reduce the negativity of the event.


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## tweety20 (Oct 16, 2011)

What can I do to make coming out more appealing to her? Lure her out with millet? I wonder if the only reason she behaves out of the cage is to adhere to my will instead of actually enjoying it.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Yes, you can use millet spray to help lure her out. Maybe put it right in the doorway at first so she can nibble it while staying inside but looking through the doorway. Then move it a little so she has to stick her head out to get it, and keep gradually moving it until she's completely outside.

Can she see the cage when you have her out? If she can see it and is NOT trying to get back to it, you can feel confident that she's enjoying her time out of the cage well enough. If she can't see the cage, it's possible that she might really prefer to be back in it. But if she seems to be generally relaxed and comfortable, she's having a good experience.


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## tweety20 (Oct 16, 2011)

I'm sitting at the computer about five feet away from the cage and she is sitting on my shoulder nitpicking at my earrings while I type this. Her wings are clipped so the farthest she can make it is to the floor (pet store did it, not me) but she doesn't even try to get away. If she is going to sleep on my shoulder is that a good sign she is relaxed?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Yes, it's an excellent sign! A bird that's worried about something will be alert and watching out for danger, not falling asleep.


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## tweety20 (Oct 16, 2011)

Why has her attitude changed towards me changed? A month ago I wouldn't have dreamed of her being like this. She would bite the blood out of me if I did this and now she tolerates it to get her out. She is still afraid to come out of her cage but now I doubt that she is truly scared of hands. I wish I could teach her that it is a good thing to want to be out with me in the first place. She actually allowed me to give her scritches today but she pecked at me the whole time. My previous tiel would beg for that.


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## Pinkspikez- Buddy's Mama (Dec 25, 2012)

tweety20 said:


> I would also like to know how to make her stop chewing on my earrings.


I think other than what everyone else suggested (removing jewellery), this is one of those life mysteries we may never get an answer to lol. I think my facial piercings are just about ready to close because they are in so rarely now to avoid being attacked by his beak lol.

This is a great alternative to keep them distracted though:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=22323


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Why has her attitude changed towards me changed?


She knows you better now. Plus cockatiels need a flock to help them feel safe and she has accepted you as a flock member. Keep encouraging her to come through the cage door by herself, and once she's mastered that you won't have to grab her any more.


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## tweety20 (Oct 16, 2011)

Update: Peaches will step up after some protesting. She has grown her flight feathers back so I guess she learned she can fly if I take her out. How can I make her stay with me? She flies unbalanced and has had a few close calls with the ceiling. I'm so afraid she will injure herself flying in the ceiling or not making a good landing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Millet or shiney things will make her more inclined to stay with you but there is no guarantee.


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