# Atherosclerosis or too much estrogen?



## elinore (Jul 22, 2010)

Long story short: My bird, who has been suffering seizures and weakness for about a year, was just found to have abnormally thick blood, and the vet believes either atherosclerosis or too much estrogen is to blame. Anyone have any experience or advice?

Here's the long story: I have a 7 year old female whiteface named Maggie, who has been having seizures or seizure-like episodes for about a year, and in this year she's also become very lethargic and weak, and has lost her curiosity and desire to play and "help" and be naughty, which is incredibly disturbing. She seems to only have energy to eat, sleep, and be snuggled. The weakness is especially pronounced in her feet, which just don't have enough strength to grab like they should, which causes her balance to be extremely impaired. Right after a seizure-like episode (some of which include violent flapping for up to 20 minutes, others just leaving her "out of it" and confused and wobbly for a few minutes. These episodes can happen several times a day or sometimes are separated by a week or more), her feet just don't work. Sometimes she'll even stand on top of her toes, appearing not to notice (of course this scares the bejeezus out of me). After her first seizure (which was a massive, horrifically violent one), we immediately took her to the only vet in our area who would see her (we live in far Northern Wisconsin, where most vets refuse to even look at anything smaller than a cat), who predictably didn't have any answers, but advised us to try not to stress her out (ie, drag her 4 hours to the nearest avian vet) and to give her lots of scrambled egg for protein. Having no other remotely professional opinions to go by, we followed this advice but were never happy with it. 

I finally had enough of waiting and doing nothing, so I took her to the University of Wisconsin's Veterinary Hospital last Friday to see a real avian vet, who was wonderful. We spent all day there (literally) and Maggie had every test possible done. I was somewhat surprised when the vet was far more concerned about her lack of grip in her feet than the violent seizures. While trying to run a blood test, the vet found that her blood is abnormally thick and contains a high level of lipids (the report he gave me says "LIP 3+") though she is not obese, and believes this could be the root of the weakness and possibly the "seizures." He has two theories for this: 1) Something about her estrogen levels being abnormally high, which could cause her blood to be too thick (I'm not entirely sure I understand this theory 100% because the vet has a very thick accent), so he gave her an injection of Lupron to suppress her ovaries, though it will only last about 3 weeks, to see if that might help to thin her blood. 2) She has atherosclerosis, possibly caused or exacerbated by the egg she eats (ate), so we immediately stopped feeding the egg. The vet is interested in trying an experimental drug called Isoxsuprine (I think it's the kind of drug that opens up the veins to allow more blood flow), which has only been used once in a parrot (a Yellow-naped Amazon) but might solve her problems. He's trying to track down some of this drug to try. Meanwhile, in the last 4 days, she is doing slightly, but significantly, better. She's a little more curious and naughty, a little more like herself before all these problems set in. I don't know if this is a result of the injection of Lupron or because she's not allowed any egg anymore, but it's wonderful! 

Anyway, I just really want to know if anyone else out there has had any experience with atherosclerosis or too much estrogen causing thick blood in their bird. From what I've read, atherosclerosis is not very common, and is generally only diagnosed post-mortem, and there really aren't many treatment options that have been tested. I haven't been able to find much for information on how a high estrogen level could cause thickened blood, if it can be treated. If anyone has any ideas or advice, I'd really, really love to hear it!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Can you give more info...such as her diet. And has she laid any eggs, and if so were they normal. Can you remember anything that occured or any changes prior to the first seizure?
As to Atherosclerosis, my firs though is what is the diet. Fort exam0ple if pellets are fed and the diet is supplemented with viatmins, D3, and calcium it can contribute to this....which results in a degenerative condition of the (muscular and elasticity) arteries.

From the info you have given a few things come to mind that you might want to ask the vet about:

*1...Hepatic Encephalopathy* which can cause some neurological symptoms, especially if the liver enzymes are elevated or indicating liver disease. It is not a disease, it is as medical condition which is caused by intoxication of the brain by products of protein digestion which enter the portal circulation and are not detoxified out of the body through the liver. Excess protein in the diet can contribute to this. If she is a laying hen some some yolk (which is rich in protein and is formed in the liver) could have gotten into the bloodstream and enter the brain, but this would cause stroke like sumptoms.

*2...Hemochromotosis* comes to mind with your mention of thickened blood. This condition can occur when there is excess iron (like from cereals, rice) in the diet, which in turn gets stored in the liver. foods with Vit C compound the problem, and Vit E helps the body eliminate it from the liver. Some treatments for this are repeated phlebotomies (drawing blood to cause the body to regenerate new blood)

*3...Hypocalcemia*, Which is not enough calcium circulating in the blood stream. Many times an injection of Calphosan at the start of a seizure will pull the bird out of a seizure. if the bird is also dehydrated Sub-Q fluids in addition to the Calphosan are needed. FSL (full spectrum lighting) and a varied diet rich in natural calcium sources can help.


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## elinore (Jul 22, 2010)

I have lots more information to share! This poor little bird has had all sorts of interesting things happen to her over the years, so there is a lot of info to sort through and determine what is causing issues and what is just history.

She currently eats about 60% seeds, 40% pellets (ZuPreem's "Avian Maintenance Natural Diet for Cockatiels") as her main diet. Before the seizures, she ate all seeds, though I'd been trying to get her interested in pellets for years. After the seizures started, I decided to get more serious about varying her diet. First, I changed seed brands several times to be sure the seizures weren't being caused by a faulty batch or something. I tried lots of different types of pellets before finally discovering that she liked the "ZuPreem Avian Maintenance," but would only eat it if I first crushed it with a spoon. She doesn't like it powdered but it does have to be "coarsely ground" before she'll eat it. We didn't find this brand till last fall, so she's only been on it about half a year. Also after the first seizure, the (non-avian) vet we brought her to in desperation reccommended scrambled egg, thinking she'd need extra protein to pull through. She's been eating about an inch square, .5 inch thick piece every morning since last May. The new (avian) vet believes this might contribute to the problem if it is atherosclerosis because of the added cholesterol, and had us immediately stop, so she's been off that for 4 days now. Before the seizures began, she ate apple in the morning, and she'd always eat whatever vegetable we ate for dinner, so cooked green beans, corn, peas, fresh spinach, fresh carrots etc. She also ate small amounts of my cereal in the morning (she liked the corn-flakey kind, but she mostly seemed to eat it for the "social" interaction with her "flock" so it was never very much), and sometimes almonds or other nuts as a bedtime snack. She also would try to eat literally whatever we were eating, because she was curious and interested in whatever her "flock" was doing. When the seizures started, she lost interest and energy, and stopped eating such variety. For the past year, she wouldn't do more than nibble on veggies, and I haven't been able to get her to eat apple at all, which she used to love to share with me in the mornings. She'll still eat almonds and sometimes peanuts as a snack. She gets millet as an occasional treat, and that at least is something she's always loved that her health issues haven't impacted. 

She has laid eggs in the past. The first time was in May when she was 4, and she laid her very first one right off my shoulder. Since then, she'd lay them every spring, generally between 2 and 4. Just before she laid, she'd get obviously hormonal, seeking out dark, small spaces and "clucking" to herself, though we tried to limit this behavior. After she laid the eggs though, she had no interest in them whatsoever, and never tried to sit on any or actually place them in a "nest" (usually she just laid them wherever she happened to be and walked off). A few weeks before her first seizure, she laid 3 eggs, several days apart. Nothing was unusual about them in shape or size or texture, and since she generally laid a few each spring, we weren't too worried untill the seizure came. Doing my own research after that first big seizure, I stumbled on the words "yolk embolism for the first time and this is something I've always suspected. I brought it up with the new avian vet, who seems to consider that to be a good contender in the list of suspects for her seizures. 

Her calcium levels were normal as of last Friday's blood tests, and the vet said there was nothing abnormal in any of the test results that he got back except the lipid level. However, because her blood was so thick, the lab could not run a proper blood test. Because we never got a really good test back, there are still some unanswered questions about her chemistry. Specifically, I know he wanted more info about her liver, but I guess that will have to wait until we can try another blood test and hope that her blood is more normal. 

She does get lots of natural light as her main cage is positioned right next to two windows, one of which gets warm southern morning light, which she loves to nap in after breakfast. 

One thing I've always been a bit mystified about is her ability to eat and eat and eat and not be huge. My uncle recently "inherited" a male cockatiel who was really the first other cockatiel I've been able to spend time with other than Maggie, and this other bird eats half of what she eats and is much larger than she is. Maggie eats more than seems normal, though I'm not sure what "normal" is, but is apparently "just right" in terms of weight (as of Friday she weighed 92 grams with a full crop). I've recently been wondering if she could possibly have a parasite (she has escaped the house, twice, something I cannot think about without crying, but somehow she pulled through and came back to me. The latest time was 3 years ago, when she was gone for a week. The time before that was when she was just 2 and she was gone for two weeks. Today her wings are always clipped and VERY closely monitered). But, the vet tested her poop on Friday and said she's parasite-clear. His guess is that she just has a fast metabolism, but with all these other issues, it's still not being ruled out as being related to the seizures or weakness.


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