# Pip is feather chewing !



## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

ARGHHHHH !

Pip is feather chewing. She has chewed down to the stump 2 big long patches of feathers on her back but under her wing.

Why's she doing this.... i`m stressing out what problems it could be. 

I only noticed today. But looks like she's been at it a while because there's LOTS of feathers chewed down. 
She's not plucking them out. She's just biting them off down to a stump.

Why would she do this ??? 

Everything else about her seams fine. Poop is fine and all. But when I was holding her I watched her preen but then the did her back where she's been chewing and I seen the patch of feathers gone. So I grabbed her looked at the other side and its bad too.


HELP !


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

Sorry for the double post ! But Dudes been doing it too !

I went over and cuddled dude because im stressed out about pip. And I don't know why but I decided to look under dudes wings at his back. And you wouldn't believe it !!!

Dudes done the same bloody thing !!! Except his is not as severe! But its deffinatly a patch on both sides. One side about the size of a 50c coin. The other only about a 5c coin.

Are my birds diseased.... i`m sooooo freaking out right now !!!

Dude never had any of that before. Now i`m worried pip had some disease and I've brought it over to dude some how. :-(


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## liltweets (Oct 31, 2008)

Oh no, I'm so sorry, that is worrisome. 

Hmmm, the first thing that comes to mind is giardia, which can be hard to diagnose because it doesn't show up on every gram's stain. 

I hope Susanne (and others with lots of experience  ) will be along soon.

Hang in there, I'm sure it's treatable and all will be fine.


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

Can't find my bloody camera to take photos. Arghhh !


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## Jenny10 (Feb 27, 2010)

Hi, I have just checked in my tiel book, and this is what it says

Chewing at, or pulling feathers out, is an abnormal activity for birds.

Possible causes, 

Skin infections
Underlying painful lesions, eg bone cancer
Passive smoking
Reproductive disease
Pancreatic disease
Giardia
Psychological causes, eg fear and boredom, are rare in Cockatiels

Hope you sort out the problem soon.

Jenny


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

How is giardia caught and spread? 

What is it.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

Are we allowed to put links to other sites like health pages here?
If not if you google giardia look for the health pages by vets and you'll get an idea if the symtoms are the same. Are they in the same room now? I think one way Giardia can be caught from drinking water.

How are they in themselves? Are their droppings any different?


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## Jenny10 (Feb 27, 2010)

According to my book, parasites, (Giardia) would be passed on through the birds droppings if the birds are being kept separate I would think this may not be the cause, to determine this you can inspect the birds poop under a microscope to look for parasite eggs or the parasite, this maybe something you may need a vet to do, parasites can be tricky to see under a microscope especially if you don’t know the strength on the microscope or what you are exactly looking for.

We used to keep koi fish, and would take a scraping of slime from the body on a plastic slide, and unless you knew exactly what the strength and how to focus the microscope correctly on the slime it looked just like slime and could easily miss the parasite’s for being not focused properly.


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

They arnt in the same room. They are in completely different houses. Next door to eachother. I am going to ring the vet tomorrow and see if I can get in.

Oh found my stupid camera. But the birds have gone to bed already so i`ll take photos in the morning.

So stressed out over this now... grrrrr !


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## Cassie (Jan 7, 2009)

That's really coincidental because I noticed that on Bell last night. It didn't look bad or anything, just like a patch of feathers on his back under his wing was a bit worn or something. Is that what Dude and Pip have? I didn't really think much of it to be honest as he doesn't chew or pick at it.. and i've been home everyday sick for two weeks so I would have noticed. I literally got home from the avian vet about 30 minutes ago and I could have asked then. I'm going back next week so I'll have her take a look.


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

Its really hard to explain. Its a big patch that is all stubs. Like they are chewed down to just a stump and they are all fuzzy so looks like cotton. I`ll have photos first thing in the morning. Dudes isn't as bad as pips is. But i`m sure any level of feather chewing/plucking can't be a good thing.


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## AlbyPepper (Apr 3, 2010)

Alby and Pepper had the same thing. Since Alby has gotten a bit older and going through his second molt, he has grown his proper feathers. But it was what you are describing. Stumpy looking feathers in a fluffy area. I can't see it on Cinnamon, but Mango has small patches. I have never worried about it, because I thought it was just a young bird thing.


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

Really !


There is no signs of being sick. Poop is fine. Both eating normal. No strange behaviours or anything concerning. 

Except for those fuzzy stumpy patches.

I`ll wait till I can get some photos on here for people to see then before I start completely freaking out over it. But pips is pretty bad. So I dunno. Still VERY concerned.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

This is from cockatiel cottage, hope it's allowed, if not aplogies and please remove. If it is giardia it could be from the drinking water supply.

Giardia in Cockatiels
from the NACS Newsletter The 'Tiel Times 

by
Ann M. Bourke, DVM
Kensington Bird and Animal Hospital
977 Farmington Avenue
Kensington, CT 06037


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What is giardia?

Giardia is a parasite that lives in the intestinal tract of numerous species. It is a protozoan -- a type of motile parasite -- and appears most prevalent in cockatiels. Birds and other animals become infected by ingesting the cysts of giardia, usually by means of contaminated water, but also directly by ingestion of feces containing the cysts. Giardia can survive for a substantial amount of time in the environment, so infection can occur simply by placing a bird in a contaminated cage or aviary. No one is certain as to why cockatiels are over-represented with this disease, but some believe there may be a genetic predisposition or immune deficiency, making this species poorly able to fight off infection on their own.



What are giardia's symptoms of infection?

Cockatiels with giardiasis are often asymptomatic. They carry the parasite but do not seemed harmed by the infection. The parasite may be detected during routine examination of an otherwise healthy bird. Those showing symptoms can exhibit signs of poor weight gain, shabby feathering, feather plucking, itchiness, or watery droppings. The most common presentation at our practice is a bird with watery droppings and ripping feathers out as if they were painful.

How is giardia diagnosed?

Infections with giardia often go undiagnosed, as it is an extremely difficult parasite to detect. A fresh (examined within 5-10 minutes) dropping can be checked under a microscope and examined for the characteristic movement and appearance of adult giardia, or the less easily recognized cyst form. Droppings may also be sent to a laboratory where a trichrome stain technique can be used to detect it. Both methods are unreliable, however, because they depend on the affected bird shedding giardia at the time of examination. More often than not, birds are not shedding the organisms in the droppings, so negative results are common. Currently, research is being done to develop a blood test to detect antibodies to giardia.

What if my bird is affected?

Treatment for giardia infection is difficult. The most common treatment is with metronidazole. Our experience with this drug has shown rapid improvement in the bird's condition, but frequent relapses once the medication has been discontinued. recently we have been using a more holistic treatment recommended by Dr. Greg Harrison of Lake Worth, Florida. This involves oral dosing of a combination of lactulose and Echinacea, and administration of apple cider vinegar in the drinking water. There has been remarkable success with this procedure, but it is not a 100% cure. During and after treatment, proper disinfecting is important, as birds can easily reinfect themselves by ingestion of contaminated feces. The cage floor must be changed frequently to prevent access to droppings. Use of a grate is advisable. Disinfecting with a 1:10 dilution of bleach in warm water will aid in killing the parasite. If well water is the primary water source, owners may want to consider testing for this parasite, or simply boil the water to kill giardia cysts.

What else do I need to know?

Giardia in cockatiels is usually asymptomatic or causes relatively mild symptoms. Rarely do we see a bird become ill as a result of this parasite. Take your bird for an annual well-bird checkup and have your veterinarian check its fresh droppings. Frequent monitoring is your best bet for early diagnosis and treatment of giardia.


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

Hope that's not what they both have... thanks . Atleast I know what it is now , just incase they do both have it.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

Can you get the stuff that treats parasites/mites that squirts on the back of the neck? ? If you can try and get the beaphar anti parasite spot on for medium birds. That wouldn't treat giardia but it's worth trying first.


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

I don't know. Where would you buy it from ? Just pet stores ?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...calm down. ALL tiels will have a slight to almost bald (small) area on their wing (top) where the elbow is. they will also have a slight bare area under the wings close to the body (wingpit). Sometimes blowing on these areas will reveal the area.

Jess...yes you can post links to other sites.


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

No those aren't the areas that the chewings are on. Its on the body on the back. But it sits just under the wing. But on the back if that makes sense.


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

I went and woke the birds up to get photos of the patches so you can see. Worse than I thought! Dude has it just as bad as pip. My first short look of dude didn't look that bad but now that I saw it again its just as bad as pip! Arghhh!


**** ADDED PHOTOS ****

sorry they aren't the best. but asking a 7yr old to take photos at midnight of two cranky birds isn't the easiest task to do.

It runs the from under the wing all the way down to their tails... the whole side of each body. but is covered by the wings so unless you hold them and pull the wings to the side you cant see it.








































































they are of both pip and dude.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

Those fuzzy white feathers are what I call the little fluffies, white ones that stick to everything that are under the main feathers, looks like they are growing back through.
This what the spot on treatment looks like anyway, over here you can buy it in pet shops.
http://www.simplypetfood.co.uk/Beaphar_UK_Ltd/Beaphar-Anti-parasite-Spot-on-Medium-Bird-3060


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

There NOT growing back through . Quite the opposite. They were NOT there 4 days ago on dude !

And Pip well I hadn't notice before till now. But I didn't really know her or check her over that well yet as I have only had her for a week or so.
And I SEEN her bite some off right infront of me!


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

It might be best to see a vet then, find out what's causing it now rather than later if they pluck those white fluffies out as well. If they pluck them out too often they end up with permanent bald places as the feather folicle gets damaged.


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## Berdnerd (May 20, 2010)

Dude, I'm pretty sure all cockatiels have that? I first noticed that on Arthur when his first mate died 8 years ago. He got very depressed and I thought he'd begun to mutilate his feathers. We went to the vet and the vet said all tiels have the spots like that under their wings. Those pictures look just like what Arthur and Little Bird had (never specifically recall getting a look under anyone else's wings). They do put their heads down there to kind of preen at the little feathers but I've never seen Arthur pluck them out. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's normal. If it's not, like I said, Arthur's been living with it just fine for nearly a decade.


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## Luti-Kriss (Dec 23, 2009)

Poor babies 

Unfortunately I don't have any information on this. All I can say is that it's more than likely some kind of illness because you seem to take excellent care of your birds, so I dunno why they'd do it because of stress or something. Probably not a shocker to you though lol. I hope they get better though


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

She appears normal. Most birds feathers are in tracts on the body. There are rows of feathers with bare skin between the rows. This is how they can regulate their body temps. You can see in these pix's of younger babies what I mean.


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

So its normal to have chewed down feathers down both sides of the bodies leading from the under wings (but on the back) all the way to the tails. 

Why didn't dude have it before ? Or have I just totally not noticed it before with all that handling and inspecting.

Its not a spot like the photos show. It runs down the length of the body from under the wing to the tail. Seriously doesn't look normal. Its just really had to get a photo of. Specially when its midnight and a 7yr old taking the photos of birds that just don't want to be held like that...lol

Now I feel silly for freaking out over something everyone is saying is normal! Ahhh!


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## Cassie (Jan 7, 2009)

That looks similar to what Bell has. I'm not an expert but I would think unless the skin is red and inflamed it wouldn't be a parasite. What srtiels said sounds like what they have. I think it's probably more noticible on Pip because she's white.


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## Ezzie (Jan 19, 2010)

Calm down dude! Relax a little and breathe.

It could be nothing, and your freaking out so much! I know you love your babies so if your really really concerned take them to the vet asap.

Why dont you settle them down and just watch them if they are actually picking at their feathers. Have you seen them do this at all?

If you havnt seen them touch it once then i would just assume its normal, again if your positive its something else take them to the vet.


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## meowmiaou (Jun 10, 2010)

I just looked at Elvis's feathers and he seems to have the same stubby little fluffy feathers in the same areas. He is not plucking or chewing, he's with me most of the time, and there is no evidence of feather bits or feathers in his cage when he's not with me.

He also has a few on his tummy when I blow on it. I'm pretty confident this is normal


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## Berdnerd (May 20, 2010)

Dude, I agree that it's normal. You probably just never noticed it before. I didn't notice it on Arthur until I had him for 3 years and like I said, I freaked out as much as you did! Look at the picture of the feather tracts Srtiels posted. The weird fuzzy part does run along their back the length of the wing.

Have you actually seen them gnawing the feathers? It's okay if they kind of poke at it sometimes, it's just part of normal preening. I would be worried if you actually saw them yanking whole feathers off but I think you would have noticed by now because you're such an observant bird parent.

I would go grab Arthur and take pictures to show you but he hates me right now because I took his babies away.


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

Hahaha... thanks i`m calm now. 

Well I was till I walked past dudes cage and there was 3 big drops of blood on the cage floor. I couldn't find the bleeding . Then I thought it was the tails because there was blood there. But while I was looking at the tail , dude let out a scream. So I figured. Ok it must be somewhere i`m holding. And it was. It was the wing. There is 4 new flight feathers coming through all on the one wing and right next to eachother. Somehow he's managed to bump his wing and break a blood feather that's coming through. LUCKLY it had already clotted and stoped bleeding by the time I found it. So hopefully he won't bump it again or it might have to be pulled.


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## Luti-Kriss (Dec 23, 2009)

Actually, now that I look at it more, I think this might be normal. I wasn't looking close enough to where exactly it was, but I'm pretty sure I've seen that on my old cockatiels I used to have 4 years ago. I should look at my birds later today when I get home to see if they have it too.


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

YES! Everyone do it... LOL.
Look down both sides of the body on the back but just under the wings running all the way down to the tail! If everyone has what looks like chewed off feathers with only stumps and a tiny bit of fuzz at the top of each stump then I will feel much better about it...LoL


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## Luti-Kriss (Dec 23, 2009)

I'll do it in the morning. They're sleeping right now. I'll let ya know xD


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

Hahahaha... everyone will think i`m crazy now ! But seriously i will be over it if a few people say their birds have it too...hahaha then I know mine are normal. OR. Everyones birds are diseased like mine! Which would then be considered normal since everyones have it...hahahaha.


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## cheekyboy (Jul 14, 2009)

If its any consolation Dude my three have it and they are/have been perfectly healthy their entire lives. Like others, i didnt even notice it until I'd had Cheeky about 8 months. I wouldnt worry at all. Not unless it starts to spread, then you might have something else on your hands. But somehow I really dont think so


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

It just doesn't look right hey.
Ah well they normal I guess . . . LoL.

2 weeks of quarranteen down. Only 2 weeks to go!
Its only 4 weeks isn't it ? LoL. I don't think I ever looked up how long quaranteen is. I just presumed 4 weeks for some reason...LOL.


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## cheekyboy (Jul 14, 2009)

Hehe I guess so! Just keep an eye on it.. if it starts spreading then there might be a bitof a problem. Haha.

You'll get a million different replies for how long quarantine is.. i think 4 weeks is fine. Some people go with 3 weeks, others 3 months.


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

Well I did look it up and yeah got lots of different answers but i`m going with the month long one. As after a month my parents come back from over seas and i`m sure they will want their house back so i`ll have to move Pip into my house and I figure since my house is small then they can start the intro stuff and hopfully move into Dudes cage ASAP ! So she will by then have had 4 weeks and a few days of quarantine almost 5 weeks. (quaranteen quaranteen quarantine quarrantine) LOL I just realised I don't know how to spell quaranteen. They ALL look right to me and knowing my lack of english skills none of them are the right way! ( hahaha so much for being a teacher, kids in my care have no hope in the future with me a teacher for their early years of life...hahahaa )


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## cheekyboy (Jul 14, 2009)

Hahaha dont worry it took me a few goes at typing it to see what was right, but its definitely 'Quarantine'  And yep, I think a month will be just fine. Bet you cant wait for them to be together!!


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

Hahahaa, thanks!

No I can't wait ! 
I almost just chucked them in together the other day because I was so stressed out and thought they were both diseased . So my irrational mind was telling me their both going to die so may aswell put them in a cage together and see what the vet said... hahaha . Was totally sleep deprived and stressed that day. Glad I didn't. But pip seams healthy enough. So can't wait till its over and they can be friends !


Hope they like eachother ! If not like, atleast be nice enough to live in the same cage together without killing or hurting one another. So much easier if they can just live together. Only 1 cage to clean. Yay!

I bet they will though... both are really calm and very nice birds. They just take everything in their stride. And I hope being only young will make the process an easy one !


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## cheekyboy (Jul 14, 2009)

It depends on the birds but I dont think you'll have a problem  Most seem to work out some sort of birdie 'arrangement' for living quarters. My three have their squabbles but generally live in peace.. and since your two are still practically babies I wouldnt worry too much- they will work it out!


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

And if they DON'T I am trading them in for a big rock!
The rock doesn't need much attention or food or a companion or scritches or a clean cage or heaps of toys and doesn't get sick or make a mess or worry me with stress over stupid things. And it doesn't die. LOL! That's plan B ! So if they don't like my plan B they will go with plan A and settle in together perfectly ! LoL !


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## Luti-Kriss (Dec 23, 2009)

Hey no worries Dude 

I didn't even have to hold them to see those spots you're talking about. I could see them perfectly fine when they were preening their backs. Those spots look almost exactly the same as the picture you were showing. They're not as drastic as Pip's in the first picture you took, but I think Pip's spots might be more extreme because an Albino cockatiel is a Whiteface Lutino, and Lutino's always have weird bald spots. Lol. 

So I'm pretty sure it's normal


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

Thanks Luti-Kriss. I feel soooo much better about it. Although now i`m trying to explaine to my sister and my boyfriend who seen me and I told them i`m mad cause I think me birds are diseased then showed them the birds. I`m trying to now tell them its normal...LOL. Yes they don't believe it is!
Like me they said that can't be right ! It looks WRONG!

But then again. Neither of them have owned a bird in their lives ! 

Thanks again.


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## AlbyPepper (Apr 3, 2010)

I just saw the pics and that is EXACTLY what Alby looked like. Pepper too, although not as noticable. Mango and Cinnamon have it too. Again, not as bad as Alby. Alby is going through his second molt now, which is a HUGE one at that. And I think that funny furry spot has gone and is now covered with 'normal' feathers.


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## dude (Mar 29, 2010)

Oh GOOD ! LoL. Yay. My birds are normal and not diseased. Yippieee !


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