# Blood in Urates



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

So, Sunny just had a dropping that looks like this:









I called the vet immediately. There is no avian vet in today, and the tech advised me to just keep him quiet and see if it continues since he is still eating/drinking/acting normally. The soonest I could get him seen is tomorrow morning. I have Baytril here, but they didn't want me to start it, since it would ruin their ability to culture.

I know this is bad, but I don't know what it indicates. He just had bloodwork a week ago that showed all his organ functions as good. He had a normal gram stain less than a week ago. He hasn't eaten anything this morning besides pellets and millet. What would you guys do?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I would just watch him...there are a bunch of things that can cause people or animals to pee blood and not all of them are serious or life-threatening. Besides the fact that there isn't an avian vet in, so they really wouldn't be able to do anything for you today. I would just keep him calm and watch him. And if no other droppings look like that then I wouldn't worry about it unless the vet does.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

It just concerns me, because if he goes downhill, there's nothing I can do.  Also, I'm beginning to wonder if he's got something reproductive going on and that's causing the respiratory symptoms.


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

I would stay calm and keep an eye on his droppings. It's all you can do for now.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I think this is probably a sign that he has something untreatable, like a tumor.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

His next dropping after that was normal, but it doesn't really make me feel any better. :/


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

One other thought. He's a horny old man who's been masturbating like crazy lately. Is it possible he just irritated something close to his vent that would cause a dropping like that? It was bright red and it was right on top of the dropping, so that would indicate that it most likely came from close to the cloaca, right?


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Well it wouldn't be a GI bleed because the blood would be darker in color. I hope everythings okay.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm concerned about kidney infection, but everything I'm reading about that says that the urates would likely be thin/gritty and his definitely aren't. Also he hasn't had any more blood since then. I'm hoping it was just a fluke, but I'm honestly really concerned about a tumor.  If it doesn't happen again, I'll probably just call the vet tomorrow and see what he wants to do. I really, really shouldn't be taking off from work to take him again tomorrow...at some point I'm going to get in trouble. I don't even know what I'll do if this turns out to be some long decline, because there's nobody else to care for him and I can't stay home.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Well there usually isn't much they can do for a tumor...they can try to remove it, but the survival rate is usually pretty low. I think that whatever it is, it may just be time to enjoy him and to let him be. Can bird develop stress ulcers like us? If so, he could be stressed from sensing your stress level lately and the blood can be contributed to that.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I wouldn't even have them attempt surgery. I don't even know if we'll xray to see if there is a tumor. I'm thinking no at this point, probably just fecal cultures, if anything. We've done just about every other test in the book.  I don't know about stress ulcers -- I know my vet said they can get ulcers in response to steroids, when he was having the black droppings last week. But that shouldn't affect the urates, right? I'm still sort of inclined to think trauma of some sort, since it was only that one time. But I don't know.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I think he's been through a lot and it may be best to just let him be, unless you actually find something wrong with him.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Well if there's the possibility of GI or kidney infection, I wouldn't want to ignore that.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Exactly, I just mean if that isn't a possibility..maybe he ruptured a capillary or something in his vent being too frisky; that would be best for him but couldn't really be diagnosed.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Well, you'd also think a tumor large enough to interfere with his breathing/cause bleeding could be felt when palpating the abdomen, and there's nothing. But on the other hand, a part of me thinks I'm in denial explaining away all of his symptoms instead of just facing the fact that he probably will die soon. I don't know.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

You can't really say that either. But if he does go soon, you and he both know you have done all you could and he wouldn't love you any less for it. Just take it a day at a time and don't sit there and convince yourself that he is a goner because that will just make it harder on you.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

If it doesn't happen again, should I take him back at all?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I wouldn't...if its was a one time thing, like trauma that caused it, I don't think there's any tests they could do to determine what caused it and that would be added stress on him. All his tests came back normal, and I really don't think there's anything in your environment that could make him sick in just a week (or at all to be honest.) I think the stress of taking him back again would be worse.

And I also don't think you should be thinking that he's going to die. Its not fair to him or to you. Because then that's all you'll think about and you wont be able to enjoy him. And that's what the both of you need if it his time.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I think that needs to be discussed with your vet. I don't want to tell you no and then something happen to him, even if it is wan't preventable.


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

Hi enigma, sorry to hear about Sunny.  Is there something going around in the air that targets only those Sunnies? First it was my Sunny and now it is yours!?!? :blink: I hope Sunny will be alright. Now it's MY turn to worry about your Sunny. :wacko: Please keep us posted.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

If it was an infection, it would be unlikely to just happen one time, yes? Plus his urates aren't yellow or a weird texture, AND there was no sign of an infection on any of his tests last week.

Roxy, I think my vet will probably say exactly what you just did, but I will call him tomorrow anyway. I guess my question was more whether I should be scheduling an appointment right now, or waiting to see what he says on the phone. I think I will wait, since he'll have to see us if it becomes an emergency whether we have an appointment or not.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Annie said:


> Hi enigma, sorry to hear about Sunny.  Is there something going around in the air that targets only those Sunnies? First it was my Sunny and now it is yours!?!? :blink: I hope Sunny will be alright. Now it's MY turn to worry about your Sunny. :wacko: Please keep us posted.


I'm seriously starting to think so, Annie.  I'm very glad your Sunny is doing better. I hope this is just a fluke for us, too.


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

Hi, me again. I went back to the beginning of this thread and re-read the whole thing again slowly. I'm no vet but all my birdymommy instincts and intuition tell me it shouldn't be anything serious because:

1) You said his next dropping was back to normal and that there hasn't been anymore blood in his droppings.
2) Bjknight confirmed that it can't be a GI infection as the blood would be black.
3) You indicated it is not a kidney infection based on your own research as Sunny's droppings don't look like it.
4) You said Sunny had a blood test and gram stain just a week ago and everything looked fine.
5) You haven't mentioned Sunny looking like he's sick so I assume he's still acting "normal" and active. If he really did have a tumour, which is what you're worried about, he should be looking pretty sick by now. I just researched this myself on the Internet and the article said that if a bird had an external tumour, you would be able to feel it. If it was an internal tumour, the bird would be lethargic, unable to grip a perch, eating less or not eating, etc. If Sunny is acting perfectly himself, I don't see how he can have a tumour.

So, for now let's not jump to conclusions.  Just stay calm, otherwise if you get stressed out the Sunny will pick up on your stressed vibes and get stressed with you and that is the last thing you need.  I will put in a word for him in my prayers tonight----I'm a believer of prayers and positive intentions. Keep us informed but don't be stressed.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

He is acting perfectly normal. Perfectly. Happy, even. He continues to have his intermittent respiratory symptoms, but that's not new. This just REALLY unnerved me, but I am trying hard to stay calm. Thanks for the support. We really appreciate it.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Annnd he just had another perfectly normal dropping, and now is back to trying to get frisky with my hand.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Haha then honestly I think he's going to be OK. Sounds like he's just a dirty old man lol.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I swear, one of these days he IS going to die in the midst of getting himself off.  I guess that wouldn't exactly be a bad way to go, though.


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

Sexual motivation is a sign of a happy and healthy bird. It sounds like Sunny is waaaaay too frisky to be sick in any way. So I'm sure he will be fine. 

My Sunny stimulates herself by walking back and forth under a door stopper by her grandpa's bathroom so that it brushes across her back. She makes these squeaky sounds while she does it.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

So I've been reading about kidney infections in birds...and most of the sources don't even list blood in the urates as a symptom. He definitely doesn't have any of the primary symptoms, like watery droppings or weird discoloration/texture to the urates themselves. I'm leaning more and more towards trauma.


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## squeeky (May 9, 2012)

enigma731 said:


> I'm concerned about kidney infection, but everything I'm reading about that says that the urates would likely be thin/gritty and his definitely aren't. Also he hasn't had any more blood since then. I'm hoping it was just a fluke, but I'm honestly really concerned about a tumor.  If it doesn't happen again, I'll probably just call the vet tomorrow and see what he wants to do. I really, really shouldn't be taking off from work to take him again tomorrow...at some point I'm going to get in trouble. I don't even know what I'll do if this turns out to be some long decline, because there's nobody else to care for him and I can't stay home.[/QUOTE
> 
> I know what you mean.. My boss didnt like my trips to the vet during working time, when i had to take a half day off... But what wouldnt you do for you pet..
> I hope its nothing serious. My budgie has had blood in her poop once a few years ago. I think it was just once, and there was nothing else wrong with her at that time.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Talked to the vet. They don't want to see him unless it happens again and/or there are other symptoms.


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

enigma731 said:


> Talked to the vet. They don't want to see him unless it happens again and/or there are other symptoms.


Well that's awfully honest of your vet. If it had been the clinic where I took Sunny to, they would have charged me $1000 and made my Sunny suffer through half a dozen tests just to tell me everything is fine. 

So happy to know Sunny is fine. :clap:


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Yeah, I love my vet. But I think they also know that I will always come back frequently because I'm too paranoid not to.


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## JaimeS (Nov 28, 2011)

I am glad they aren't worried. I hope that relieves your worry some


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*He's a horny old man who's been masturbating like crazy lately.* 
----------------------------------------

I've been off the forum for a day, so I missed this....but reading thru the thread, my first impressions he was a little frisky in his rubbings. AND when a male is sexually frustrated his testees can swell up to 10+ times their normal size and be *very* painful....like the human term 'blue balls' And, just a thought, this could be what is making him uncomfortable enough to result in the increased tail bob and breathing....meaning he may be in pain, and does need a female to get off on.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

What would I do about that, then? He gets off on stuff in his cage all the time. And he doesn't want Roo, even if I was willing to let that happen. Every time I let them out together, she chases him around until he either bites her or flies away.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Sigh....you have a little Hussy artound him that is inciting his hormones. Even though she does want him she is the root of the problem. He may be an old tiel, but he obviously needs his own hen.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I can't get a third bird. I don't have the time or the resources. What else can I do, if this is his problem? I sort of doubt that it's behind his breathing problems, though, because he had them last summer also when he was an only-bird.

I can try to put them both on longer nights (although Roo keeps waking up after about 8 hours and shrieking regardless of what I do) and I can stop giving him paper bags to play with. Are they any supplements that decrease hormones? But like I said, he's had the tail-bob/heavy breathing for at least two years, and he had no other bird companions at that time.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm coming late to this thread- I just wanted to say I'm sorry you had another stressful weekend. It does sound like Sunny will be okay though- big relief. I have no suggestions, sorry, about your Sunny's sexual frustration. Do they make birdie porn?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

LOL. I think he thinks my hand and/or the paper bag is birdie porn.  But I do let him masturbate, so I'm not really sure what more I can do. Another bird is out of the question, and he's so sexually confused that I'm not sure he'd see a hen as his mate anyway. He's like Bailey's Krissi -- he likes humans more than birds because we've been his flock all his life.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*and I can stop giving him paper bags to play with.*
*-------------------------------------*

This might help alot


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Since he enjoys shredding them so much, do you think it would be okay to hang strips of them from the side of the cage or something? That way he still gets the paper, but without the nest-like environment?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I am happy to report that Sunny had perfectly normal droppings all day while I was at work.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Great news! I think he just likes to scare his momma from time to time- just to keep you on your toes.


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