# Keeping clipped or no?



## Korvia (Aug 3, 2012)

I'm unsure if I should be worried, my female white faced lutino (winter) keeps knocking out blood feathers. She's clipped, would letting her be flighted help her from "knocking" out blood feathers? she keeps knocking them out by falling to the bottom of the cage, she plays too rough with her toys and falls or loses her balance.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Is she still a baby? They're more clumsy as babies. The issue is that the feathers growing in don't have any support from the other feathers around them because they're all clipped. So it may take a while before they grow in. It may help with her balance. Its totally up to you what you want to do.


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## Korvia (Aug 3, 2012)

roxy culver said:


> Is she still a baby? They're more clumsy as babies. The issue is that the feathers growing in don't have any support from the other feathers around them because they're all clipped. So it may take a while before they grow in. It may help with her balance. Its totally up to you what you want to do.


She's a year old, but her feet are deformed so she has bad balance.
At the moment all my birds are clipped since most came to me that way, I was planing on letting them all be flighted, but the fact winter keeps bleeding worries me. I was wondering if things would get better when flighted or not.


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## bubbleslove (May 27, 2012)

Does your Tiel have a small cage ? Maybe a bigger cage would help

Has he got an Open cage with a tree ? I put all my toys either on the tree (secured) or on the floor of his tree

How old is he ?

Its a very difficult thing to advise re wing clipping. Depends on circumstances. Is he Home Alone during the day or supervised, etc. 

I want to leave my Tiel free to fly ... My other half keeps on at me to clip. Its really a personal decision.


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## Korvia (Aug 3, 2012)

bubbleslove said:


> Does your Tiel have a small cage ? Maybe a bigger cage would help
> 
> Has he got an Open cage with a tree ? I put all my toys either on the tree (secured) or on the floor of his tree
> 
> ...


She is always supervised. she in a big cage with two other tiels. all my toys are in the cage with them, near perches.


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## clawnz (May 28, 2009)

Where Dally Tsuka.
She can help with this.
Yes if you can get the flights grown in then there will be no more trouble as the incoming flights will have the other feathers to protect them.
Your problem is not that uncommon with clipping. But I must admit that the deformed feet are not helping.

I have had a young Tiel with deformed feet, she took a year to actually stand up on her deformed feet. They are little troopers.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Do you know what she is banging her feathers on? Is it perches or the floor of the cage? Maybe a blanket at the bottom would help to cushion her falls. OR, move her to her own smaller cage. The one I have, the Petco finch flight cage, would be perfect as it has enough space inside for one while only being 18" tall. You could put that cage next to the others, and still give her lots of out of cage time (on soft surfaces) with her friends so she doesn't get lonely.

Once she grows her secondary flight feathers back, she should be fine.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

You could also talk to your vet about imping. It is for her own safety and health that you do it and if you get it done professionally there shouldn't be any issues. This way her new feathers will have support and she can learn to fly better.


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## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

My poor 2 keep breaking their new promising feathers with night frights or ill attempted flights while out. Just tonite I had the floor covering comforter in the dryer and felt bad and let them out and I was right there....sure enough..both flew...Shandy crashed on the wood floor and broke the one feather again. I hate how close they were clipped...will know now ... stay in the cage til the comforter is all out...


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## Jony N Me (Sep 20, 2012)

I'm trying to grow my bird Jony's so she can have them filled in a bit more and at least learn to fly ( not sure if she's ever not had them clipped because they were done when I got her) but she keeps pulling the new ones out! She's broken a couple as they grow but the others that grow in longer than her clipped wings she pulls out. Not sure why she's doing this. Doesn't touch any other feathers but the new ones ...


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

tsuka had very very similar problems. so i highly suggest imping as well. it has been what saved tsuka's feathers from breaking.

i just copied and pasted this here from another forum, so some info may or may not pertain to this, but this shows what we have gone through and maybe might offer you some insight on what can be done. talk to your vet, it CAN be done on smaller birds!

its going to be a two part post, sorry it is long, i will bold the most important points for you 



i will share photos and everything i could think of. some of his story might be graphic. he came from a rough past, but i want to make it clear that i do not blame his old owners, i blame lack of education. his last owners were truly nice people.


this is tsuka's story.


we had gotten dally first. i had her for about 4 months before we decided to get a second cockatiel. dally would scream for hours on end if i left the room to go out or whatever. she has separation anxiety. well i had heard some birds dont scream as much if they have a second bird as a friend. 

so we decided a second cockatiel would be helped, and i had always wanted a male too at first. so i went looking on kijiji for one. there were a few ads, i called a few some were rather disappointing. they didnt sound like they knew anything about cockatiels so we avoided those ones. one sounded really really good, but we didnt get a reply sooner. we found tsuka's ad, with him and his parents being sold. 

well the lady contacted me back and we talked for a bit. i asked her questions about him. she told me he was not tame but he seemed to be able to be tamed. well she sent me more photos of him the day before we were going to get him, he looked a tad tattered, and so did his dad, his dad looked like he may have been sick. the perches were run down and broken and the cage looked small and rusted, later i found out it was only 20x20x24" with the three birds inside. too small for even two.


he was dropped off at my husband's mom's home because at the time my husband and i lived with our parents still. at the time, i did not know about quarantine, so that didnt happen (future reference, it most definitely should happen). i had dally's cage in my hand with dally in it, and downstairs from my husband's room i could hear a cockatiel screaming, and dally responding. 

as soon as tsuka seen dally he started whistling and talking to her. he looked very happy, but very ragged. *his feathers were dull, a lot of them were broken, frayed and had stress bars. one of his wings he held out as if it were hurting him. he had dropped a feather. we clipped him, to help with taming him*, but he was quite happy to be with us and dally. his back of the head was completely bald and his crest was thin from plucking, and you could still see the red dots on his skin where he was plucked. he was 5 months old, losing his pearls still and he had the brightest little sad face. he had some oddities that i noticed on him. but we loved him anyways.

you can see the back of his head in this photo




















we gave them a shower, tsuka needed one because he reeked of cigarette smoke. it took EIGHT showers to get the stench off


he grew tame very fast and within 3 weeks he let me give him head scratches. we noticed his eye had part of the eyelid missing, mostly noticeable when he closes his eye. he also was missing part of his beak on one side, not very noticeable but you can see a difference.











he was such a sweet bird as a baby, this was him at 6 months old when he wore the harness for the first time.



















thats around the time he started bickering with dally. he loved her, but she only saw him as a friend. she had stopped her screaming with him around, but he got mad she never paid him any attention like he wanted her to.










but he was a funny bird, he loves head scratches from veggies










*then started the nightfrights. he would start breaking feathers and blood feathers in the cage almost 5 times a week. the feathers that grew in after grew in deformed, stunted, and would fall out after a short period of time. the poor feathers are linked to the smoke he was around at his old him, it made him have trouble with molting.*




















he had fun on halloween of his first year, we dressed him up as a bat and he thought he was real funny. he loved the paper wings we sewed onto his harness.





















then he started being nasty towards me around 8 months old. we thought it was just the teen stage.











*his feathers still made no improvement on growing in, they'd grow in part way then fall out. just like that. his wings looked tattered a lot and he could not fly.*



































*then it got worse, he grew in this very odd thing in his wing. it had been a feather cyst, but it had died off during forming, and a new feather started growing in and pushed the cyst tissue through the skin. when we removed it, out came the new feather that was attached to it.*


















we started taking photos of the deformed feathers he lost all the time, *nearly always from the same wing*












more next post


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

we resorted to making splints for his wings to help prevent him from bashing his wings any more. but this was a failed attempt as he hated it (I do not recommend this method for breaking blood feathers in most cases, i do not think this will help here as your bird has bad feet!)











*he went on with bad wings for several months, he could not fly and he had very frequent nightfrights. it seemed to us he would never fly. after 9 months of these feathers he finally started growing in normal feathers. he nearly got all his wings in, then he had a nightfright and knocked them all out of his wing.*










*but because he knocked out one whole wing, he was unbalanced and we had to clip the other side... stupid call at the time now that i look back, but he was crashing really bad*










*he started growing them back in eventually and thats when he finally could fly. it made me so happy to see him actually fly, albeit clumsy.*











but he started getting even more nasty towards me and dally. not super bad, just started getting an attitude more and bit more and would do his "angry bat birds". most tiels do bat bird because its a happy thing or its a territorial thing, he nearly always does it as a territorial thing. but he also tail flares, where he quickly flares the tail and lunges and hisses.










*another nightfright came and knocked out the same wing again. he started up with more deformed feathers*. there had been nights i'd wake up to his thrashing in the cage, find feathers and blood all over the cage and blood all over him. it was a real nightmare to wake up to. *he has broken over 50 blood feathers as a baby. again he had to be reclipped because he crashed having no feathers on one wing...*


























*finally got him flying after that whole mess of nightfrights and deformed feathers....*











*and in the end his attitude grew and grew. he started divebombing me and dally, he would go for the face and go for blood. he became dangerous and unpredictable to live with. we had to make the hard choice to clip him for our safety. *










*in time, he gained weight clipped and each time the feathers grew in, he would break the blood feathers as they had no support. 

we had realized the mistake and at 2 years and 6 months old we made the choice to imp his remaining clipped feathers after one of the worst blood feathers he's had so he would no longer break the blood feathers as easily. he would stay a good healthy weight instead of being obese. its the attitude we need to learn to live with, and learn how to avoid his diving and his biting. his attitude is suspected to either be bipolar disorder, too much testosterone (hormone imbalance), or possibly brain damage from being attacked as a baby in the nest.*

*he can fly very well with the imped feathers now*. so far he has been well behaved and very sweet. thats the thing. he is very sweet on his good days and he is the best bird ever on his good days. after all the blood feathers, every bit of pain this bird has been through, right after all he wants is headscratches and love. he is the most forgiving bird you will ever meet, he loves kisses and hugs and snuggles and all the attention you can give him. he thrives on it and he can be hands down the best bird you will ever meet, but his bad days make him the worst bird you will ever meet as well. you never know what mood he will be in, nothing seems to set him off. you uncover him one morning and he lunges at the cage door trying to get at you, he will dive at you, launch himself in a flurry of wings at your face. theres no pattern, little warning. then the next day he will talk to you and beg for scritches every ten seconds and be very demanding of your love. 




















































































sorry more next post...


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

as for his old scars, he's got part of his eye lid missing, part of the side of his beak missing, and two nails on one foot that will never grow and theyre twisted and deformed



























you can see this side of the beak, its normal fits snugly with the bottom beak









you can see this side of the beak, it does not











you can see the eyelid here









*from not being able to fly at times with his obesity and breaking feathers, he has bashed his tail enough times that he grows in deformed messed up feathers there from time to time, hes grown in two twice the same feather that was clearly two feathers combined.*


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## Korvia (Aug 3, 2012)

I'll look into implanting.
At the moment she's breaking the ones next to her breast and not her wings.
Her wings are slightly deformed too, were the top of her wing is supposed to be round she has feathers sticking straight out.
She also falls to the bottom of the cage and I was debating on putting her in a smaller cage with sola (Crash and Sola are a smaller cage for two)


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

can you post photos of the area you are saying she is breaking?


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## Korvia (Aug 3, 2012)

DallyTsuka said:


> can you post photos of the area you are saying she is breaking?


if she will let me, she doesn't like me touching her wings.


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

Bjknight can probably offer good advice on this too. Allie has deformed wings and feet and I believe she gets around well.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

A smaller cage might be best for her. Less room for her to hurt herself in.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Allie stays in a flight cage, but with only one other bird who is VERY respectful of her and her space. If the other birds bump Winter, bother her, or scare her into falling this could contribute to her breaking feathers.

Allie so far has only broken her tail feathers, but she also does not have her wings clipped. She does have the ability to fly, but only if she wants to. Most of the time she will only glide down to the floor from the top of the cage when one of the birds is bothering her.

Allie does best with rope perches, and I highly recommend having them as the majority of perches in the cages for birds with deformed feet. Platform perches are also helpful for some birds. 

I do suggest a smaller cage (possibly by herself) to aide her in growing her wings back in. A bird with horrible balance (deformed feet) and clipped wings is NOT a good mix. I would never clip Allie's wings.

Allie's feet and wings:


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## Korvia (Aug 3, 2012)

When I got her, I was told she was unable to fly,due to whatever reason.
So the lady had clipped her wings before I got to say anything.
In the cage winter is in, it is all rope perches aside from one natural perch. 
As far as i can tell cookie and Amy don't bump into her but it's quite possible,she also plays too roughly with her toys,I have seen her a few times playing and then leans one way too far.
Also I have to wait till morning to get a picture,it's after 10, they go to bed at 10pm.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Well maybe it would be best to keep her in a shorter cage until her wings grow in? That way when you put her in the large cage and she falls she will be able to glide rather than break her new feathers. Is that an option?


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## Korvia (Aug 3, 2012)

bjknight93 said:


> Well maybe it would be best to keep her in a shorter cage until her wings grow in? That way when you put her in the large cage and she falls she will be able to glide rather than break her new feathers. Is that an option?


Most defiantly an option, I have more cages then I know what to do with lol.
Also side question, would that also help with her coming out of the cage more often?


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Does she not like to come out of her cage?

Allie doesn't mind being in her cage, but she is also a lazy bird. She prefers to just kind of sit there and nap even if the boys are making all sorts of noise.


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

It also might help if you pad the cage bottom. I know dally uses fleece and then just swaps it out when it gets dirty. This can help her since she gets rough with toys and just falls over.


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## Korvia (Aug 3, 2012)

bjknight93 said:


> Does she not like to come out of her cage?
> 
> Allie doesn't mind being in her cage, but she is also a lazy bird. She prefers to just kind of sit there and nap even if the boys are making all sorts of noise.


Not exactly she freaks when someone goes to get her out, but once out she's fine. She'd rather sit in the cage all day and watch everyone else go in and out of it.


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## clawnz (May 28, 2009)

It's probably got a lot to do with her handicap.
They are inferior and in the wild would be pushed away or not excepted in the flock.
There is not too much you can do about this, except spend time, one on one and try and build her confidence and then she will be happy she is a part of the flock.
With the cage! Do you have platforms for her to perch on?
And I would keep it clear of toys, as few obstruction as possible. A soft landing will also help.
Tweety used to fall off the perches at night because she could not grip them. As soon as I put in a couple of platforms she was fine.
I hope you find some good information on Imping.


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## Korvia (Aug 3, 2012)

clawnz said:


> It's probably got a lot to do with her handicap.
> They are inferior and in the wild would be pushed away or not excepted in the flock.
> There is not too much you can do about this, except spend time, one on one and try and build her confidence and then she will be happy she is a part of the flock.
> With the cage! Do you have platforms for her to perch on?
> ...


I have rope perches for her and she can grip them, she really loves the rope perches.


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## Korvia (Aug 3, 2012)

I'm happy to say, since I've been spending way more time with her, Her crashing as almost completely stopped. She also no longer runs from me in the cage and now is the first to greet me and all it toke was a full day of my attention.


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## clawnz (May 28, 2009)

Korvia said:


> I'm happy to say, since I've been spending way more time with her, Her crashing as almost completely stopped. She also no longer runs from me in the cage and now is the first to greet me and all it toke was a full day of my attention.


Being handicapped and intelligent she will pick up on when you are working towards helping them.
Great to hear. Keep it up and you will have one very loving girl.


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## Korvia (Aug 3, 2012)

clawnz said:


> Being handicapped and intelligent she will pick up on when you are working towards helping them.
> Great to hear. Keep it up and you will have one very loving girl.


She was very loving to begin with,just didn't like coming out of the cage.
Now she loves me to pick her up and bring her to my computer were she sits in front of the keyboard and "tries" to help me type. I also changed out her cage mates in case the other two were pushing her.


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