# Yoghi might be sick



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

This morning I let the birds out and immediately noticed that Yoghi wasn't right.
Usually they all are a bit crazy when first let out, fly, yell etc. etc. but he just went to the windowsill perch and fell asleep. 
Then he started puffing up and shivering. After about an hour he was still looking miserable so I put him in the carrier and took him to the vet.
The vet wasn't able to visit him immediately so I had him admitted so that they could keep him warm while he waited for his visit. He was so puffed up and shivering, I really didn't trust myself keeping him warm because I have no hospital cage.
I called about three hours later and the nurse told me that the vet gave orders to keep him warm, give him fluids and an antibiotic. He (Yoghi) is staying at the clinic for the night and the vet will see him again tomorrow, but she (the nurse) told me that he was actually eating, not puffy anymore and pretty furious because he wanted to be let out. Poor baby he must be so scared 
The nurse asked me how his poo was when he was at home and I said a bit on the liquid side. She said that it looks like there are seeds in it, which I don't think is a good sign but I can't think very clearly right now and I can't remember what the seedy poo means. I will make a search but I'd be grateful if someone could tell me what can have caused him to get so puffed up and lethargic and seemingly recuperate so quickly.
The others are all ok at the moment and I am praying it stays that way because if everyone gets sick I am basically *#@+*d.

You can see how puffed he was, and he is usually such a slim bird! He was three times his normal size


----------



## CaliTiels (Oct 18, 2012)

It usually means some sort of parasite or intestinal infection, like pancreatic trouble or PDD. Poor guy. I hope he gets better soon


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

It actually is a symptom of inflammation somewhere in the intestines. It can have a variety of causes, from heavy metal poisoning or other toxins to an infectious cause like bacteria or a viral syndrome such as PDD.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

I went to see Yoghi and the nurse told me that he is eating ok. He's the usual grumpy himself but I could see that he was happy to see a friendly face. They are releasing him this evening with an antibiotics prescription but basically no diagnosis. Should I insist on the blood tests? The seeds in the poo were only a transfer from him eating seeds above the poo, so at least this is a positive thing. I really don't know what to do. 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Did they do a fecal test? That can usually detect if it's bacterial- and at least here, is pretty inexpensive. I hope Yoghi is okay.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Sunnysmom thank you for reminding me that, I will ask. I am waiting for the vet to call me and will ask whether they did it already. 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

I finally got a call from the vet after being waiting all day and basically he says that Yoghi is responding well to the antibiotic, has gained 6 grams since yesterday but he has no idea what's wrong with him and even if we knew what was wrong with him we couldn't do anything more. So he is keeping him two more days just to be safe. 
This is the most bizarre and unsatisfactory explanation I ever heard from a health care professional, human or veterinary. 
Fecal test was fine, at least he says they carried it out which I am not certain at all. 
Plus, he said that having 8 birds it means that for sure they carry diseases... When I asked why he's so certain about it he said that cockatiels carry diseases and psyttacosis, sorry about spelling, he says that's what they do even if they don't get sick. 
Please someone can tell me whether this is true??? I don't understand why they should carry diseases when they are clean and well cared for. 
I am so upset, sorry for the tirade but this is so bad, having a vet who can't diagnose anything, ever! And having my pets classified as pests is the worst part. 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I don't think it's true at all that cockatiels carry diseases just because you have a number of them. I'd be pretty upset too if I were you. Maybe it's time to change vets? It also bothers me that he seems unconcerned about the cause of Yoghi's illness. At least the good news is that Yoghi is doing better.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Exactly, he's not concerned at all! He is with antibiotics the way old doctors used to be with aspirin... They'd tell you to take it no matter what your ailment was. 
I asked him, if we don't go to the bottom of Yoghi's problem he will never get better and treated... Apparently nothing can be done! 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

While I don't agree that cockatiels necessarily carry diseases, it's not an uncommon practice to give a broad spectrum antibiotic and see if it helps before doing lots of expensive and invasive testing. That's common practice in human medicine too -- for the most part when you go to the doctor with something like a cough or a sore throat, they'll prescribe you something before doing blood work, for instance. Since he is acting better and gaining weight -- which is a very important metric of a bird's recovery -- I would agree with the vet's assessment that continuing the current treatment is the correct course of action.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

That's ok, Enigma, but yesterday I was told in this thread that the symptoms seem to point at problems with internal organs, intestinal issues maybe metal poisoning or even PPD... I even told the vet that Yoghi licks the wall paint (dry of course) and being a cheap paint there might be heavy metal in it. But he just dismissed it. 
I don't want to be unreasonable but that's how I felt: dismissed. As if a little cockatiel doesn't deserve proper care just as a big macaw does. 
If I take him home in two days, then he gets sick again there will be another rushing to the vet and a new bill :-( 
I am sorry, I am angry and confused and clueless to what to do next. I am regretting dropping off veterinary university 30 years ago more than ever now. 


Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## CaliTiels (Oct 18, 2012)

It could be a possibility. Do your other birds do those things too, or is it primarily Yoghi?


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

He is the main licker. The others tried in the past but didn't like it. 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## CaliTiels (Oct 18, 2012)

That could be your answer there


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

bobobubu said:


> That's ok, Enigma, but yesterday I was told in this thread that the symptoms seem to point at problems with internal organs, intestinal issues maybe metal poisoning or even PPD... I even told the vet that Yoghi licks the wall paint (dry of course) and being a cheap paint there might be heavy metal in it. But he just dismissed it.
> I don't want to be unreasonable but that's how I felt: dismissed. As if a little cockatiel doesn't deserve proper care just as a big macaw does.
> If I take him home in two days, then he gets sick again there will be another rushing to the vet and a new bill :-(
> I am sorry, I am angry and confused and clueless to what to do next. I am regretting dropping off veterinary university 30 years ago more than ever now.
> ...


I'm the one who told you that. But you said he didn't actually have seeds in his droppings, right? So then he doesn't have any symptoms that specifically suggest heavy metal poisoning, and since he's getting better on the antibiotic, that suggests an infectious cause. If you really feel that you need bloodwork to have peace of mind, then it is of course your right to take him to a different vet. But if he were my bird, I wouldn't take the risk of invasive testing on a bird that appeared to be getting better.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

I just came back from visiting Yoghi. He looks fine, they say he's eating, and even though I would have loved to take him home he is staying in until Monday so that they can monitor him, keep him warm and give him his medication which isn't easy because he hates to be touched. 
The nurse did leave us alone a few minutes and since the chart was on the table in plain view I had a good look at it. 
I was shocked to see that his weight was 70 grams the day he was admitted. He is usually around 90-95 grams. I guess he must have been poorly for a while to drop that much weight and still he didn't show any sign... I really feel bad. 
He gained 6 grams the first 24 hours but since yesterday he hasn't gained any. Also on the chart there are question marks under "drinking" which worries me a lot :-( 
Another thing written in big letters on the chart was "MONEY IS AN ISSUE". Is that because I always ask how much tests and stuff will cost me??? I always pay my bills but maybe that's not good enough with these people. 
I guess my boy will not get cured properly so the only thing I can do is pray that he'll be ok during this weekend and then move on to a new vet. 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

They probably wrote that so they will always go for the cheapest course of treatment for you. Like instead of doing tests A-Z they have available they would just recommend doing the most likely tests to you..or to attempt to treat by symptoms and see if there is a response before attempting any testing. I don't think they wrote that to imply that you're poor or anything. I'm sure my vet has that written in my charts too.


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Also, they probably haven't seen him drink water while he's been there..but remember cockatiels drink very little so it would be difficult for them to catch him in the act. 

Also, I think your Yoghi is getting proper treatment, especially since he is responding well to the medication. If they didn't care about you and Yoghi then they wouldn't be keeping him to monitor him.


----------



## scootergirl762 (Aug 27, 2013)

bjknight93 said:


> Also, I think your Yoghi is getting proper treatment, especially since he is responding well to the medication. If they didn't care about you and Yoghi then they wouldn't be keeping him to monitor him.


I agree, if they didn't care, they would have suggested you take him home already. I know you are upset and that's understandable. It sounds like he's getting better and he'll come home in good shape. Keep us posted, please, and best wishes for his continued recovery.


----------



## Lulu-Tiel (Jun 3, 2012)

I don't like that they wrote "money is an issue." I feel this is very unprofessional and it does make me wonder if your bird is actually getting the care it needs. They could have worded it differently and/or removed the chart so you couldn't have read that. I find that upsetting and being who I am, I'd ask them what they feel that means. I'd also let them know that I felt it was unprofessional and I'd be going elsewhere (if you can!) I don't put up with stuff like that.

Now according to what other posters are saying, they believe your baby is getting taken care of accordingly. I think if it eases your mind, go elsewhere and get another opinion.

I find with my horses, I have over 15 years experience and my main topic of interest has always been health, lameness/soundness etc. I usually diagnose and treat myself but then I always end up second guessing myself and having a vet out. They always tell me exactly what I know and their treatment plan is what I'm already doing. But it EASES MY MIND HAVING ANOTHER OPINION! Follow your gut. 

Good luck, I'm sure everything will turn out fine


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Lulu-Tiel said:


> I don't like that they wrote "money is an issue." I feel this is very unprofessional and it does make me wonder if your bird is actually getting the care it needs. They could have worded it differently and/or removed the chart so you couldn't have read that. I find that upsetting and being who I am, I'd ask them what they feel that means. I'd also let them know that I felt it was unprofessional and I'd be going elsewhere (if you can!) I don't put up with stuff like that.


I mean, my chart at the vet says something similar because my vet knows I'm a broke grad student and he gives me discounts on my birds' care whenever possible. I just think it's important not to assume malicious intent when one is in a stressful situation like having an ill pet. Ask for clarification, sure, but don't automatically conclude it was meant in a negative way, or means the bird isn't getting appropriate care.


----------



## scootergirl762 (Aug 27, 2013)

Hope you were able to bring Yoghi home and he is continuing to improve


----------



## urbandecayno5 (Oct 24, 2012)

I think they wrote that in my chart to for my dog who has kidney and liver issues/bad arthritis

I was out of work going to classes but they told me they were writing in my chart "money is an issue" so we only do what is necessary(not saying its not costing me hundreds of dollars regardless). He's still getting great care

I would ask if you don't like that written
And I agree they should not leave the chart in the room especially with an upset owner


----------



## Lulu-Tiel (Jun 3, 2012)

enigma731 said:


> I mean, my chart at the vet says something similar because my vet knows I'm a broke grad student and he gives me discounts on my birds' care whenever possible. I just think it's important not to assume malicious intent when one is in a stressful situation like having an ill pet. Ask for clarification, sure, but don't automatically conclude it was meant in a negative way, or means the bird isn't getting appropriate care.


I see what you're saying. I guess it could have and probably was not meant to be malicious. I just know if I saw that on the files for my animals I'd probably question it and be offended (like I was for the OP) lol.


----------



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Lulu-Tiel said:


> I see what you're saying. I guess it could have and probably was not meant to be malicious. I just know if I saw that on the files for my animals I'd probably question it and be offended (like I was for the OP) lol.


It's definitely an understandable reaction, which is why I think it's a good idea to ask for clarification about things like this.  By the way, I'm not meaning to imply that all vets are blameless, or anything like that. I just know that I personally have had the experience of getting panicked and insisting on lots of invasive testing that I think did more harm than good in the end, so I think it's important to always weigh the need for a definitive answer against whether a milder treatment is working. If an antibiotic works for a sick bird, maybe you never need bloodwork to determine an exact cause, you know? Of course, everyone's approach will be different.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

I am sorry i wasn't able to post earlier in the week but, to add to the already stressful situation with Yoghi, a lot is going on here leaving little or no time for anything else.
Monday afternoon I took Yoghi home. I wasn't able to see the avian vet or any other vet, just a nurse who told me that he was eating and doing well. They gave me Marbocyl to administer once a day for one week and that was it. 
As it turns out the vet was on holidays for days so he only examined Yoghi the 12th only. After that no more visits.

I put him back with the flock and even though he was very happy to be back I could see that he was not ok. 
Luckily it was almost time to go to bed so I was hoping a nice quiet night in his own home would help him settle.
Yesterday he was extremely quiet, not flying a lot. He spent the day sitting on a new perch I put in front of the window, and didn't eat much. Sometimes he'd fluff up for a while.

Today he was definitely worse. Not only he settled on that perch again, but he fell asleep almost immediately after I let him out, and he was puffed up again. 
Basically same situation he was in when I first took him to the vet.
He does perch properly, doesn't have any balance problem at all; and if disturbed he will fly... He just doesn't want to do it. Lethargic and not interested at all in anything going on around him.

I read Casey's Hospital cage article and decided that he'd probably better on his own in peace and quiet so I took a smallish cage, put seeds, water and treats dishes up, and on the bottom i put my hot water bottle which is one of the gel ones you put in the microwave to heat, and I have been reheating it every few hours. I have covered the cage almost completely to keep the warm inside.
I took some pictures so you can tell me if it's ok or I need to do something else.

Since he was in this cage he ate a little bit of rice cake and not much more... He didn't even touch his romaine leaf, and usually he is all over it 

Now I am thinking what to do, worried sick, and if you have clearer ideas than me please let me know what you'd do!

Bringing him back to the same vet is NOT an option. After Yoghi gets better I will find a way to complain about this clinic in all the possible and most damaging ways I can find, but right now I just want my baby to get better.

There is another avian vet in this region, Brian Stockdale, but I have never taken any of my babies there and I don't know anyone who uses him.
Another possibility is the vet in Nottingham where Baileysmom takes Bailey, but I haven't seen her here for a while so I am not sure who else I can ask how good he is.
Perhaps the best alternative is The Gauntlet Birds of Prey's Avian Veterinary Services, even though they are a good couple of hours drive north from here. 
They treat ONLY birds, usually birds of prey and parrots big and small, and they are probably the only, or one of the very few, veterinarian practices completely devoted to avian medicine.

I was NOT upset about "MONEY IS AN ISSUE" 'cause it implies that I am poor. I AM poor, and I don't feel offended by anyone stating this obvious fact. I would be extremely grateful if that meant that they would keep useless tests to the minimum and possibly give me discounts! 

BUT when I first saw the nurse I explained to her that having so many birds at home, two of which aren't even mine, it was extremely important for me to try to understand what was the cause of Yoghi's illness; and when asked if I was willing to pay £ 250 for x-rays and blood tests I said "If that will give us an answer YES PLEASE do all the tests you need". As it turns out, she talked to the vet and he decided not to do tests.

What upset me enormously about that chart were the consequences of that money issue note. This clinic is a huge place with loads of nurses and vets. Apart from my conversation with that nurse and that vet in which I OKed the tests, there was nothing written anywhere saying "If necessary proceed with appropriate tests" or whatever else. Nothing. Just "Money is an Issue". That vet was on holiday until yesterday. If someone in charge, seeing that Yoghi wasn't doing well, thought to change the course of treatment and do tests, they would NOT do it because of that note. 

Now I have a pet who is still sick, I have been charged £134 instead of the £70 I was told initially even though the only test was the fecal, and I have no idea what's the best course of action.
I might get lucky and Yoghi will recover on his own, but I am never lucky so that's probably not a good idea.

Below are a few pics of the hospital cage setup with Yoghino inside feeling sorry for himself 
Where can I buy a heating pad? Would chemists have it? I would order one online but I'd like to use it already tomorrow.







You can still see the top of his crest popping up from under the blanket, my cute little boy


----------



## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm so sorry. Can you ask your vet by phone how soon Yoghi should be improving on the medicine he's on? Although I would think he should be at least the same if the medicine was working, not getting worse. If he's getting worse, I would take him to another vet. Sending good thoughts to Yoghi.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

I apologise for how long my last post was, thank you Sunnysmom for reading it all. To be honest I have such low trust on that guy I don't think it would be a good idea to call. And he might be still on holiday anyway.


----------



## scootergirl762 (Aug 27, 2013)

So sorry to hear that he's not doing better. Can you call the other vet that has more experience and see what they say - you might get a better feeling from the way they treat you on the phone and feel more comfortable bringing him there. I hope your little one starts feeling better!


----------



## .Alexandra. (Sep 11, 2012)

How is Yoghi doing? I hope he is feeling better! Sending good thoughts!


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

He was doing better these last couple of days so I thought maybe the antibiotic did do some good. 
Then this morning I found him sitting in a corner of the bottom of the cage, not looking good at all. 
I put him back in the warm cage and when I checked back on him he was looking and acting normal and alert and wanting be let out. 
I don't know what to do or expect anymore, it's agony to look at him being poorly and not knowing what to do. 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

Poor Yoghi 

Do you have any herb salad or booster laying around? It might help to give him some of that, especially if they don't know what it is really. It helped a little when Kiwi was recovering from a respiratory infection.


----------



## Lulu-Tiel (Jun 3, 2012)

I wanted to suggest something. I'm not super experienced but the breeder I got my babies from said probiotics are a birds best friend when they're stressed or under the weather. If you read the description, I think this would be worth a try for your baby. http://www.exoticwings.com/shoppe/morning-bird-probiotics-oz85g-morning-bird-product-p-2673.html


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Lulu-Tiel, thank you for the suggestion. I am completely at loss on what to do, and not having used probiotics before for the tiels I would never have thought of it! 
I have the probiotics I use for myself, called Bio-Kult. It contains all the ones in the product you gave me the link for, except the faecis, so I am wondering if I can use it. I guess it should be fine, but what do I know... 
Could someone kindly confirm if I can use it without risks? 
He frets if I keep him in the warm cage so he is out, and I am keeping the bird room at tropical temperature because it seems that's the only thing that makes him feel better. 


Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

To be safe, I think I would give him avian probiotics, not ones for humans. I buy mine from by vet but you can also order it online. I'm sorry Yoghi still isn't feeling well. Can you take him to one of the other vets you mentioned previously? Is he maintaining his weight?


----------



## Tequilagirl (Mar 4, 2013)

Have you tried guardian angel? I keep reading stories of birds making recoveries almost from the edge of Rainbow Bridge. I have never used it but if I was desperate I definitely would.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

I took Yoghi to the vet, one I'd never been before but such is the situation I had no choice. 
I have never seen anyone handle an untamed and pissed off tiel so well before, so that on its own told me that the guy knows birds. I regret not having used him from the beginning. 
It's very bad news though, looking at the droppings, plus the fact that Yoghi eats a lot but still he's slowly but surely losing weight, and other things he said which I have forgotten because I was panicking, the vet is convinced that it's kidney disease. 
To add to the distressing news I had a look at Yoghi's patient record from the other vet. Basically this vet today called the other vet, asking to be told what they had done, and they sent him a copy of the record. 
They wrote that I didn't answer the phone when they repeatedly called while Yoghi was hospitalised, and that I refused to allow them to do blood tests. It's not supposed to be shown to the customer but he showed it to me because what I was telling him was quite different from what the other guys told him. 
I am utterly FURIOUS. I was at the clinic twice a day every day and I was never able to talk to anyone. These people are dishonest and liars and I am not gonna let this matter rest. 
I can't even try to tell you how sad and hopeless I feel right now, I am sure you guys understand. 
The vet told me to feed him eggfood and to give him milk thistle, and see if he improves, but he was quite clear on the fact that in his experience a bird so sick dies soon. 
I have no idea what guardian angel is, so I go check it out now. Thank you for the suggestions everyone. A miracle is exactly what we need. 


Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## scootergirl762 (Aug 27, 2013)

I'm so sorry to hear that. You must be so very upset. I would send you all the healing thoughts I had if it would help.


----------



## Tequilagirl (Mar 4, 2013)

It's this http://www.northernparrots.com/guardian-angel-comprehensive-ill-bird-supplement-2-sizes-prod6294a/

You should be able to find it at some local pet shop hopefully. Very sorry to hear the news


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Thank you Esperanza, yes I was checking northern parrots but the delivery is three to five days so not an option. I am looking now for a distributor in the region, there is a big one near me but I can't remember the name and I am not sure if they have it anyway. I can't imagine my local pet shops having it in stock but tomorrow morning I will call them all. 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Tequilagirl (Mar 4, 2013)

There is a god forsaken pet shop near me that sells budgies and they have it there, and cheaper than northern parrots as well. I'm sure someone around you stocks it.


----------



## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm glad you found a vet that's good with birds but I'm so sorry the news isn't better. Sending good thoughts to you and Yoghi.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Thank you Sunnysmom, much appreciated. 
I found Guardian Angel! I called Midland Parrots and they confirmed that they have it in stock so I was able to get it, just a 25-mile round trip, excellent. They have just about everything one might ever need for their bird, impressive. 
I sprinkled it on his food and his millet spray and he has been eating it for a few hours. 
He is in the heated cage and I was so touched when I went to check on him, I found all the tiels perching around him, some of them in really awkward positions 
He is famished, so obviously the food is not being processed properly. Is he suffering? Even though I refuse to give up on him, I don't want him to spend his last time on earth in agony. 
I'd be very grateful if someone with experience in this illness could tell me what is going on with him. 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I have no personal experience with kidney disease. However, I read on another bird site about a conure with kidney disease. This bird was on a medicine called allopurinol. That might be something to ask your vet about. And also on milk thistle and Sunshine Factor. I also read about birds with kidney disease being given fluids by vets. 

So sweet that your other tiels are with him.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

I am wondering why this thread is completely ignored by admins and moderators. Aren't they supposed to be the knowledgeable ones? Or maybe it's just me and my ill bird who are not worthy their time? 
Post a picture of a cute bird and you get 200 hits (mods and admins included) in five minutes flat. Post in other sections, you either get the usual bland "your bird needs hormonal reduction" or nothing at all. 
This is so disheartening. 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## .Alexandra. (Sep 11, 2012)

I am sorry to hear that it might be kidney disease. I have no knowledge about kidney disease, but I hope more knowledgeable members have! Sending good thoughts


----------



## urbandecayno5 (Oct 24, 2012)

If it makes you a little bit more settled 2 former moderators have commented with advice. One is very knowledgeable but no longer using this forum(as far as I know) anymore

I'm guessing the lack of comment is they have nothing to add or anything that would help your situation 

I wish I had some ideas or helpful info for you but I don't I'm sorry


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Urbandecay, I recognise the names because I have been here for a while, I am eternally grateful for the advice I received over the years and have the uttermost respect for their generosity. But this thread has now moved to kidney disease and a member, no matter how knowledgeable, has no obligation whatsoever to read and reread and reply. I don't expect it. 
On the other hand, one of the moderator's task is to detect such shifts and address the new issues. 
I could have posted a string of the most colorful and offensive profanities without anyone taking notice... Actually no, prolly if I posted a mild crap I would have had three or four swarming here in a millisecond. 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Tequilagirl (Mar 4, 2013)

Has the guardian angel done anything yet? I read it's better to put it in the water, and also that it makes birds drink a lot more. I don't mean to use your dear Yoghi as a guinea pig but I'm interested to know if it does anything to help.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

I am not sure if he's drinking so I had to mix it to food, unfortunately. Made a pap with eggfood, milk thistle, guardian angel and seeds, added some water and put it in a dish. He wolfed it down... 
I don't know if it's that or the tropical temperature in the bird room, but this morning I weighed him and he is 74 grams, 3 more than Wednesday! 
During the night he looked bad, poor baby, so puffed up sitting in a corner, but now he even found the strength to fly up his favourite perch and he's eating romaine as we speak. 
You have possibly saved his life or at least gave him a few more days, Esperanza  

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Tequilagirl (Mar 4, 2013)

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a full recovery. I'm very happy he perked up a little and I hope he continues to improve.

Keep giving him the GA. At worst it won't do anything, but it won't harm him.

You're in our thoughts.


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

What I would do for Yoghi is treat his water daily with alcohol-free Milk Thistle and Dandelion extract. 1 drop of each per 3 ounces of water. I would also purchase some alcohol-free Corn Silk extract and treat his water with 3 drops once a week.

This helps his liver and kidney function, and may "buy you some time." 

I would also go find some powdered Brewer's Yeast and sprinkle that on anything he'll eat. This will calm him from stress. 

Continue with the Guardian Angel since that seems to be helping. And give him probiotics once a week, until he is feeling better, to aid his digestion. 

P.S. Allopurinol is simply a mix of Milk Thistle and Dandelion extract. Extracts are pricey but they last very long. It won't hurt any of your other birds if they eat or drink Yoghi' food, so don't worry about that happening.



Edit: after reading more about kidney disease I would also recommend purchasing Beta Carotene capsules. Break the capsules open and sprinkle the powder on moistened millet for Yoghi. 

*What's his diet like?*

It sounds like in birds, kidney disease is most commonly caused by either a Vitamin A deficiency (hence the recommendation of Beta Carotene), by disease or infection, or in rare cases by too much sodium in the diet.


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

And I don't remember if you're already doing this, but supplemental heat is recommended too.


----------



## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

bjknight93 said:


> P.S. Allopurinol is simply a mix of Milk Thistle and Dandelion extract. Extracts are pricey but they last very long. It won't hurt any of your other birds if they eat or drink Yoghi' food, so don't worry about that happening.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Sorry guys..don't know where my brain was this morning. Allopurinol is a prescription drug. The name I was referring to is Silymarin. Silymarin is a mix of Milk Thistle and Dandelion extract. Oops. Sorry to confuse you!


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

bjknight, thank you so much for all the info. Without you guys Yoghi would be very likely defunct because one thing I am useless at is researching and skimming the good from the useless (or vice versa!).

I took Yoghi to Brian the Vet today, exactly one week from the last visit.
He weights 73g today, not a huge gain by any means but vet was happy to see how better he looks. Brighter eyes and much improved plumage. Well, the last time poor baby was completely scruffy and lethargic; today he managed to escape and fly around the examination room. 
He said that what I am doing is working so to continue with the eggfood, the milk thistle and the Guardian Angel. And to further reduce the seeds.
He wasn't impressed by the GA, he says that he won't harm Yoghi but he doubts that it's the reason why he picked himself up... I am now convinced that it's a life saver so GA stays on the diet 
Yoghi in the first days was always on a feeding frenzy, seeds, eggfood, droppings, mineral block... But since these last three days he still eats a lot but with less voracity. Vet says that's a good sign because while before the food wasn't been processed at all, now it's starting to get digested again, even though not in massive quantities otherwise he'd have picked up more weight.
I told him that I was willing to learn how to administer fluids but he says that while the bird flies and moves around he will drink on his own and not get dehydrated, so he thinks there is no need, at least for now.
I asked again if maybe it's time to do blood tests but he said no, right now it wouldn't change the course of treatment; if Yoghi in a few weeks still hasn't picked up weight (and he's still alive), at least 78g, we will need to reassess the situation and see what can be done but he thinks the change of diet is going to be the most important thing, together with keeping him as warm as possible.
So basically my poor baby is far from cured, but he's showing resilience and will to live.

I will be adding the things you listed, bjknight, at least all the ones I will manage to find. Are they sold for human or animal consumption? 
Also, I am not sure if Yoghi drinks much. Every morning I dilute the milk thistle and Guardian Angel, put it in a syringe and force him to drink it that way but it's a huge struggle. So could it be possible to drop the dandelion and the corn silk extract on food?


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

The extracts are made for both human and animal consumption. You need to get the alcohol-free version, regardless of who it is specified for.

Brewer's Yeast is for human consumption, though it is also used in some bird pellets. The Beta-Carotene is human grade; you want the capsules with powder in them, otherwise you'll spend a lot of time crushing tablets. 

And probiotics they sell for birds. I've used Benebac gel, and a powered version you mix into water or sprinkle onto food but I can't remember the brand name.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

I am sorry, you asked about his diet and I forgot to answer that.
He categorically refuses any vegetable. Tried pellets and he was horrified. The only green I managed to have him eat is romaine in big leaves, that's it.
So I guess he's the perfect poster boy for the evils of an all-seed diet.
Only now that he's famished I was able to make him eat something different.


----------



## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm glad to hear he's doing better. 

Have you tried nutriberries or nutripellets? My tiel who also had an all-seed diet before coming to live with us, refuses to eat pellets but he likes nutrieberries and nutripellets if I crumble them up. I also put crushed up pellets and vegetables into birdie bread, which he loves.


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I would do what sunnysmom does, to trick Yoghi into eating better foods. I don't think this is going to improve unless his diet is better, unfortunately.


----------



## Caro234 (Aug 27, 2010)

Glad to hear Yoghi is doing a bit better. I always have a supply of Guardian Angel - I do think it makes a difference. It contains probiotic and prebiotic so Yoghi is already getting this.
You might want to have a look at the Bird Care Company website - they make GA and various other bird products including a supplement for birds on bad diets, and also Poly Aid which stops sick birds from starving, and a special needs diet which is a foodstuff used by birds with digestive disorders like PDD. They have a helpline as well:
http://www.birdcareco.com/English/TheBirdCareCompany/product-information


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

He is fortunately still eating the eggfood, but i guess it's just a matter of time before he demands his seeds back.
I have found two types of nutriberries at a big pet shop in a town near me, nut they are both for parrots. Are they gonna be ok for little tiels too? I was about to pass out when I saw the price LOL
He is doing much better, it SEEMS. But being the damage internal I am never able to relax because who knows how what is really going on  
Tomorrow I will weigh him, cross your fingers for us please!
I want to make birdie bread. Is any of the recipes a real success with your babies? Otherwise I will choose one at random.


----------



## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm not sure if you broke the nutriberries up for Yoghi if the parrot ones would still be too big or not. Can you order the cockatiels ones on-line? That's where I usually get mine.

I have a recipe I sort of made up after looking at other recipes. It's not fluffy like regular bread but Sunny likes it. I bake a sweet potato and mash it up. Then I add 2 cups of organic rolled oats, about a half a cup of crushed pellets, an egg (no shell), sometimes a couple tablespoons of flour but not always, enough water to moisten all of it, a sprinkle of cinnamon and whatever other veggies I want to add (diced really small- broccoli, etc.). Although sometimes I do a batch just with the sweet potato and no other veggies. I put it in a pie dish, rubbed with just a little bit of olive oil so as not to stick. And then bake at 350 degrees for about 20-25 minute until it's cooked through. It freezes well too.

Although I haven't done it yet, I plan on trying a batch with adding some baby food too to see how he likes that.

Glad to hear Yoghi is doing well.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Today I took Yoghi to see the vet. He has lost some more weight and is in worse shape than four weeks ago.
Even though the vet said that he is quite certain that Yoghi's condition is chronic and not reversible, I insisted on having blood work done. It's not that I don't understand what the vet is saying, it's just that even if he is about to die I can't leave things like this. I would always torment myself thinking that maybe there was something I could have done for him. So at least I hope we will soon know what exactly is wrong with him.
He is not exactly in pain but surely his life at the moment is quite miserable so soon I will have to decide what has to be done. I was so much hoping that my poor baby would pull through, but it looks like he's not gonna make it.
We will have the results in a few days.


----------



## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm so sorry. Sending good thoughts to you and Yoghi. Hopefully the vet can give you some answers.


----------



## Peaches&Me (Oct 30, 2013)

I've just read this thread from start to finish, it's heartbreaking 
Sending lots of positive energy to Yoghi & strength to you.


----------



## .Alexandra. (Sep 11, 2012)

I am sorry. I understand that you want to know exactly what is wrong with Yoghi. I hope you get the results soon.
Yoghi is in my thoughts.


----------



## caterpillar (Oct 14, 2013)

bobobubu said:


> Today I took Yoghi to see the vet. He has lost some more weight and is in worse shape than four weeks ago.
> Even though the vet said that he is quite certain that Yoghi's condition is chronic and not reversible, I insisted on having blood work done. It's not that I don't understand what the vet is saying, it's just that even if he is about to die I can't leave things like this. I would always torment myself thinking that maybe there was something I could have done for him. So at least I hope we will soon know what exactly is wrong with him.
> He is not exactly in pain but surely his life at the moment is quite miserable so soon I will have to decide what has to be done. I was so much hoping that my poor baby would pull through, but it looks like he's not gonna make it.
> We will have the results in a few days.


Aww. Sending good thoughts to you and your flock.


----------



## blueybluesky (Jul 9, 2013)

I also understand the want for a blood test. Sending good thoughts to you, Yoghi and the flock.


----------



## Squawkz (Oct 7, 2012)

Sending best wishes and positive thoughts your way. I am keeping my fingers crossed for Yoghi...


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Thank you for the kind words, it is so hard to see him in decline and not be able to do a lot for him. Even the joy of having the new babies is dimmed, I don't feel much like celebrating them. One little part of me still believes that a miracle can happen.


----------



## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Are you getting the test results today? Maybe they'll come up with something that can help. I can't imagine how hard and frustrating it must be not being able to "cure" him. Fingers crossed you get some news that can help him.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Yoghi just passed away about an hour ago.
We had the blood test results today, and the results were pretty bad, his organs were shutting down. It wasn't anything viral or bacterial, and it wasn't cancer. 
He was ok-ish until yesterday, slept most of the time but he was still flying and interacting with the flock. Today he didn't have the strength, so I put him in the warm cage and made him as comfortable as I could.
I am devastated as you can imagine but thankful that he's gone so quickly, seeing him for days on the bottom of the cage and having to decide to put him to sleep would have been so much worse, for him especially because knowing myself I wouldn't have been able to make a quick decision on that.
Thank you all who visited this thread and gave suggestions, I appreciate it beyond words.


----------



## scootergirl762 (Aug 27, 2013)

I'm so very sorry. Thinking of you during this difficult time.


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I'm sorry for your loss of Yoghi. You did all you could, and you helped him to a peaceful end.


----------



## Amz (Apr 10, 2013)

I've seen this thread, but somehow I managed to skip over it each time I dug around in the health forum. And then when I finally come, I see this.

I'm so sorry for your loss. I just don't even know what else to say.


----------



## Tequilagirl (Mar 4, 2013)

I'm so sorry for your loss 

Fly free lil Yoghi.


----------



## stevechurch2222 (Sep 25, 2011)

So sorry for your loss of Yoghi,you did all you could for him.Know that someday you and Yoghi will be reunited at the rainbow bridge never to be parted again.:frown:


----------



## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

I meant to comment earlier in this thread.  So sorry for your loss of Yoghi. May he rest in peace.


----------



## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Thank you very much for your words, he leaves us in great sadness but he's not in pain anymore, I just have to be grateful for that.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Oh god...I catch up on this thread only to get a huge shock.

I'm so sorry. You did all you could. Still, I am sure that does little to ease the pain. Fly free Yoghi.


----------



## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm so sorry for your loss of lil Yoghi.  Sending virtual hugs!


----------



## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

I am closing this at the OPs request. Again, so sorry for your loss, my thoughts are with you.


----------

