# Breeding question...



## sueann (Jul 20, 2008)

Hi all .... I have a question I have 6 tiels in my aviary, I have 5 nest boxes put up in there. I have 2 hatchlings in one nest but it seems I have 2 different moms???? Is this normal..I know for a fact that my whiteface male is the Dad I have observed him myself sitting in the nest with my cinnamon pied hen, but last nites feeding it was my normal pied hen sitting in the nest, checked the chicks and they were fine and fed quite well, tonites feeding it is the other hen and the male in the box feeding the chicks? Someone please tell me if this is ok, do I leave them as is, I mean the chicks are fine and healthy. Is it normal for 2 hens and 1 male to share a nest? I had them all paired in separate breeding cages last year and didn't get not even one egg, tried it this year and this is my second clutch out of them. I have another pair breeding as well but just the pair is all I have observed in that nest though.


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

It's not _normal_ for two hens to share a mate and a nest, but it's not unheard of either.  I've seen photos of two hens incubating eggs side by side.


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## sueann (Jul 20, 2008)

So is it best to just leave them for now with the chicks?


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

I read that it is dangerous for one male to be with 2 females, That he'll be too busy feeding them and then the chicks when they arrive, that he won't safe any for him self, and he literally kills himself trying to take care of the "family" 

I would think it would be unsafe for 2 hens to be near the same box - they get very protective over their babies. 

But Ive never aviary bred, or plan on to - I like to keep mine in their own cages so I know who the parents are, and there is no guessing .


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

I would leave them unless they're fighting or causing problems. Changing things now could cause them to abandon the chicks.


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## sueann (Jul 20, 2008)

ok..thankyou Bea. I have one more question for you if you do not mind.?
The other pair that mated up is a whiteface male I believe is split to pied because he has a small white spot on the back of his head, and his female is a whiteface pearl, they threw 3 babies their first clutch, one is grey with a splash of white on the back of her head but none on the face, one is mostly white with grey on wings and splash of gray on the back of his head, the other started out pearl but now at 15 weeks there is yellow coming out on the tail and chest? Could you please explain to me why or how this is happening? Neither of the other ones have yellow on them at all, neither do the parents I have checked and rechecked, just this pearl? Thankyou for all your help by the way.


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

Hmm, if you're breeding them in an aviary is it possible that the mother mated with more than one male? That's the only think i can think of.


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## sueann (Jul 20, 2008)

Bea said:


> Hmm, if you're breeding them in an aviary is it possible that the mother mated with more than one male? That's the only think i can think of.



I was wondering that, I have a lutino in there and he does not appear to 'mated' with any of them, but that would explain the yellow, does that mean the other babies from that clutch could possibly produce yellow chicks? I am so confused, so the pearl with yellow[and I will get a pic soon] coming out on tail and chest, the pearls on the back are white and face is white, it would be whiteface pearl split to lutino???


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

I am not sure about it being split to lutino and showing a yellow tail and chest, with my Lee a whiteface Pearl when I got him he was close to 12 weeks old he had a lot of yellow on his tail and as he has gotten older it is fading but you can still see it like a light yellow wash I never really paid much attention to it I just thought it was normal...lol


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## Carrie~Anne (Apr 19, 2008)

If the chick has yellow on him, then he can't be a Whiteface as they have no yellow pigment whatsoever. A bird that is split to Lutino doesn't visually show that they are split to Lutino. The only way to tell is by the bird's lineage or by breeding. Also, only males can be split to Lutino. Could be this bird is a Pied? What other mutations do you have in the aviary?

One of the reasons why I'm not a big fan of aviary breeding is because, as you've experienced, you have little control over who mates with who and hence it may prove difficult to determine a chicks lineage.


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

Carrie~Anne said:


> If the chick has yellow on him, then he can't be a Whiteface as they have no yellow pigment whatsoever.


I will have to disagree with you on that one my Lee is definitely a whiteface pearl tiel as you can see by his picture and he did indeed have yellow on his tail and still has a wash of it, but its not as bright as when he was younger why or how it got there I couldn't tell you, I can tell you it was not dirty or something he ate, when we got him I did wonder why there was yellow because I believed there shouldn't be any but I never really looked into it I just figured it must have been normal for him anyways


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## Carrie~Anne (Apr 19, 2008)

Interesting. Do the feathers actually come in that colour? And I mean checking right from the time they break through. Seems strange to me that they would grow in that way, as the whiteface mutation removes all the lipochromes from the bird, which is why we see no yellow in the whiteface mutation.


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

That I don't know as I got Lee from a breeder when he was about 10-11weeks old so I really don't know his history or what his parents were I just know when I got him thats what he came like, on Lee it was only his tail that had yellow on it no where else I did wonder about it but to be honest I never really put much thought in to it, as he was my first white face and I really didn't know much about the mutation and I still don't know why he had yellow on his tail


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## sueann (Jul 20, 2008)

Carrie~Anne said:


> If the chick has yellow on him, then he can't be a Whiteface as they have no yellow pigment whatsoever. A bird that is split to Lutino doesn't visually show that they are split to Lutino. The only way to tell is by the bird's lineage or by breeding. Also, only males can be split to Lutino. Could be this bird is a Pied? What other mutations do you have in the aviary?
> 
> One of the reasons why I'm not a big fan of aviary breeding is because, as you've experienced, you have little control over who mates with who and hence it may prove difficult to determine a chicks lineage.


Yes, split to pied as Dad is pied,he has a white spot on back of his head. Here is a picture of the parent birds:


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## Carrie~Anne (Apr 19, 2008)

Laura, how old is Lee now and has he molted those yellow tail feathers since he's been with you? I'm just wondering if the yellow is stained....that makes sense if the yellow has become lighter over time. This has happened with a few of my Whitefaces and often times, Whiteface Lutinos will have a yellowing to their tails due to rubbing on the bottom of the cage or a toy/food or something of the like.

Sueann they are beautiful  I love Whitefaces. They are one of my favorite Cockatiel mutations (actually, I think I say that about every mutation...lol).

Because both parents are Whitefaces, any chicks from this pair will be, by default, a Whiteface. 

Do you have a photo of the chick with the yellow feathers?


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

Lee is 10 months and he has molted, I don't think its stains I doubt they would still be present after all this time as you can still see a yellow wash on his tail its not one specific area like a stain would be its his whole tail, its just not as dark after he molted and there is nothing yellow in his cage that he could have rubbed on unless he is rubbing on his partner Minnie (lutino)  like I said he came to me this way so I don't know what could have happened at the breeders to stain his whole tail yellow top and bottom I just know in 10 months it has never totally gone away I guess its something I may never know.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

when they are chicks if the down feathers are white , they're white faces, if it's yellow they're other mutations 

Here's pictures of mine - Dad is White Face Pearl Split to Cinnamon, Mom is Cinnamon Pearl Split to White Face. 










the one over at the wall is Sadie - she's my White Face Cinnamon Pearl, then there is a White Face Pearl (looks black & White) , a Normal Pearl and a cinnamon Pearl (they have splits too but since you can't see that i'm not listing that.) They also had another white face but he/she died, when they were born 3 had white down (the white faces), and the other two had yellow down 

here is my white face pearl a little more grown up  he's on the left , then its the pearl, and Sadie( Wf Cinnamon Pearl) thier tails are stained up but when they molt them out they'll come back in clean, and hopefully stay that way - ok i know i'm kidding my self, its like owning white clothes they don't stay clean lol


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## sweetrsue (Jul 8, 2008)

I totally agree! plus there can be squabbles over nest sites. One breeder tried to sell my a Lutino for $10 'cause she was missing an eye. She explained that another pair wanted to use the nest box and she was so young she couldn't get out. So they pecked her relentlessly. This lady had not done it right however. She had 40 birds and only one nest box. I have always heard that if you're going to do it you need to provide twice the nest boxes you need for the number of pairs you have. I'm sure you're a lot more responsible than THAT lady. I think the evidence is right there in your pics. Beautiful, healthy babies!


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## sweetrsue (Jul 8, 2008)

Somehow I mised the whole second page!!! I was responding to the comment about colony breeding. However Carrie-Anne and atvchick are correct. There is no yellow pigment present in the Whiteface mutation. If there IS yellow it's from another source!


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