# Nestbox bedding absorbing moisture?



## lilbear (Aug 2, 2012)

I have a few questions. The first one is my first pair Mama and papa laid their 3rd clutch in a row starting on 11/9/2012, about a week ago they stopped sitting on them so I placed them in with my other pairs eggs. The first two clutches from mama and papa four out of five hatched and then three out of five. All but one had to have help hatch because they were stuck in the shell. They were all going fine after wards. The humidity is about 50-60% in the house and I have a large warm water bath in the cage for them. I live in the pacific northwest and it rains non-stop most of the winter. I use Aspen bedding in the nest box. Is that the problem should I try something else? 

The second pair was laying when I got them and abandoned the eggs and they did not make it in the incubator. They laid 4 more eggs starting on 11/08/2012 two of the have hatched but needed help getting out of the egg all the pip marks were in the same area on all the eggs. The third egg is odd, he is still moving in there but the air sack is on the side of the egg on on the end like normal. Will he be able to make pip marks at all? He was laid on 11/13/2012 and she started sitting on them as soon as first was laid?

I know there is lot of info there and lots of questions. At first I was thinking it was something with my first pair but when the second pairs eggs are doing the same thing I am thinking it is me or the house. Everyone here is so smart and helpful I wanted some more brain power to help them hatch on their own.


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## sonic123 (Nov 2, 2012)

your saying third clutch oh no only 2 cockatiels can have 2 clutches cause it would put alot of pressure on the female


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## lilbear (Aug 2, 2012)

Yea well she laid them on the grate with 18 hrs of darkness and she laid them anyways. She did not have a nest box til she laid them.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Wood shavings (aspen or pine) are considered to be the best bedding and normally do not cause problems with moisture absorption. It does sound like the eggs are having problems related to dryness, but it also sounds like the humidity in the house is perfect so I don't know why you're having this problem. Maybe some genetic factor in your parent birds that causes problems with the membrane in the egg? 

The egg with the displaced air cell might be OK. The air cell actually tilts to the side when it's getting close to hatching time (this is called draw down) so it should look lopsided. If the air cell is completely on the side of the egg and not in the end at all, there might be a problem. When you candle the egg, can you tell what position the baby is in? The beak should be in position to pip the shell at the lowest edge of the air cell.


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## lilbear (Aug 2, 2012)

The air sack is completely on the side and has been the baby is still moving but I can not see the eye but the last baby hatched has light eyes so maybe this one does too.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Do you know what the humidity is in the box? The humidity could be fine in the house itself but off in the box.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm not an expert on egg development but that does look wrong to me. I also suspect that this egg may not have been incubated for as long as you think. If it had been incubated since 11/13 it should be ready to hatch at any moment, but it looks like the chick hasn't reached its full pre-hatching size yet. The egg doesn't look completely full yet.

There's information on dealing with misplaced air cells in poultry eggs at http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/5...t-of-damaged-and-mal-positioned-egg-air-cells They tell you to incubate the egg at a 45 degree angle, to help shift the air cell back into its normal position. You can't do it exactly that way with parent-incubated eggs of course, but you could dig a small "pit" in the bedding and put the egg at the desired angle. The parents will move the egg of course, but it might help if you reposition the egg several times a day.


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## lilbear (Aug 2, 2012)

Well the first two eggs hatched at 17 days from the time they were laid. The humidity in the box is abut 50%


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It's a strange situation. 50% humidity is considered to be ideal, and my babies hatch out quickly and easily at a MUCH lower level than that (I live in the desert, and the parent birds don't wet their feathers to bring moisture into the nest). How thick is the layer of bedding, and is there anything in the nest besides birds, eggs, and bedding?


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## lilbear (Aug 2, 2012)

Birds, 3-4" of bedding and the eggs. It is a store bought nestbox.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

If the baby does pip sideways, you'll have to help it out. I had this happen with one of my babies and it couldn't get out of the egg.


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## lilbear (Aug 2, 2012)

He was DIS the egg turned gray over night and I checked on him and he was not moving and i touched the aircell and it opened up and he was not alive anymore ;/ 

Would wood pellets be okay for bedding instead of the chips


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I don't know...I use shavings instead.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm sorry you lost the baby. There may have been something wrong in addition to the malpositioned air cell - that egg didn't look full enough to me.

I'm mystified by the moisture problem and don't know how to advise you. The current bedding obviously isn't working well for you so you're taking a risk if you keep on using it. There's also a risk in trying something new, so you have to decide whether to stick with the risk that you already know or take a chance with a different one. The article at http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww59eiii.htm says it's OK to use wood chunks in the nestbox, but watch out for ingestion problems. 

You could also try using a different brand of aspen shavings, or use pine shavings instead of aspen. Maybe there's something "off" about the current brand. My favorite brand is Kaytee. I'm not thrilled with their food products but their aspen shavings are nice and clean, and the babies kick their way out of the eggs like little ninjas.


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## lilbear (Aug 2, 2012)

Yea I think I will stick with this stuff for now there is only one egg left to hatch. I will then try pine again. Thank you again


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm currently taking the American Federation of Aviculture's online course for Fundamentals of Aviculture II, and I just read something that might be helpful. They were talking about artificially incubated eggs which might not be completely comparable to naturally incubated eggs, and about parrot eggs in general not cockatiel eggs in particular. But they said that relative humidity of 50% or less is desirable during most of the incubation period, but relative humidity of 50-80% is desirable once hatch has begun to keep the membranes moist. Maybe you would be better off with a higher humidity during hatch.

They also said that excessive humidity during the normal incubation period can result in the chick's body actually absorbing moisture, giving it a fat bloated look compared to a normal chick. These chicks can have hatch problems, so a puffy look might be something to look out for if you have any hatch problems in the future.


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## lilbear (Aug 2, 2012)

Thank you I will look at after their resting period.


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## Erinsmom (Sep 7, 2012)

Mine do fine with a humidity of only 20-25%...I live in am extremely dry climate and that is with running a humidifier. Sounds like to me 3 clutches in a row is your problem.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Mine do fine with a humidity of only 20-25%...I live in am extremely dry climate and that is with running a humidifier.


That's how it is with me too. But the OP was having a problem with babies stuck in the shell in a more humid climate and it was happening with all the clutches, not just the last one. At first I thought that the membranes were somehow not moist enough. But now that I've learned something new, I wonder if there is too much humidity during the main incubation period and the babies are absorbing the moisture to the point that they can't easily turn in the egg.


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## Erinsmom (Sep 7, 2012)

tielfan said:


> That's how it is with me too. But the OP was having a problem with babies stuck in the shell in a more humid climate and it was happening with all the clutches, not just the last one. At first I thought that the membranes were somehow not moist enough. But now that I've learned something new, I wonder if there is too much humidity during the main incubation period and the babies are absorbing the moisture to the point that they can't easily turn in the egg.


I get what your saying and its a great question....what is too much humidity? but as with our birds who thrive and breed in low humidity I think alot of times they adapt quite well. My thought was as it got worse each clutch that there could be some sort of issue with the hen and the more she lays the worse it gets. KWIM? Just my thought reading about the situation and she clearly said in the box was supposedly ideal humidity at 50% so to me that probably isn't the issue BUT I am not expert


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## lilbear (Aug 2, 2012)

That is what I was thinking but I have had to help all my babies out expect one from two sets of parents. I am not sure what is going on but the ones I had to incubate I understand that they all did not make it because I could not keep them the right temp and cool down and warm up like the parents do. I was just wondering if the nest box material was doing something to make them so dry. I will try the higher humidity at hatch while they are hatching and see if that helps. Again Thank you for all the help!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The recommendations in the FOA course are for an incubation temperature of 99.1 F to 99.7 F, and relative humidity less than 42% for the first two weeks and not more than 50% after that, except at hatch time when 50-80% is desirable. This is talking about artificial incubation of course. 

Brinsea is a prominent maker of incubators, and their handbook is posted online at http://www.browneggblueegg.com/Article/Brinsea_IncubationHandbook/Brinsea_IncubationHandbook.pdf It might be helpful to look through it to see if there are any useful tips.

Eggs are expected to lose a certain amount of weight during incubation, and there are techniques for monitoring them to see if they're losing too much, too little, or just right. It's kind of complicated, and I'm not sure how practical it is with something as small as a cockatiel egg, but if you think it might be helpful you could try it when breeding season rolls around again. More info at
http://www.avianaquamiser.com/posts/How_to_weigh_eggs_and_calculate_weight_loss/
http://www.brinsea.com/customerservice/humidity.html


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## lilbear (Aug 2, 2012)

Thank you again I will check it out


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