# Is it "family time" for our birds?



## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Hello, been awhile since I posted here so I hope this is the correct topic.

Our male is a gray, about 3 years old. Our female is a cinnamon pied, just over 1 year old. My wife and I have seen them breeding several times off and on, but this past week their behavior has really changed.

They are apparently building a nest in the corner of the cage. they've ripped up the newspaper on top of the bedding - an area about 6" x 6", and are collecting feathers in there also. They off and on sit there with their bottom up in the corner - sometimes both birds at the same time.

As far the change in behavior, the male has started charging, unprovoked - such as sometimes when I just walk past the cage he'll coming running, fly on my shoulder, and start attacking my face, neck, and ears - just randomly.

Our female doesn't want to be picked up nearly as much as before - kinda' an indifferent attitude. She has started making some cute sounds we haven't heard before - my wife calls it sissy sounds, but it's kind of like a low pitched warbling.

I've noticed also that if I reach in the cage and tap the floor, the female comes running over to check the "nest".

This is all new to us, so I hope I've put this in some understandable order. So.... what do you think we should do at this point???

Thank you, Keith


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If you want baby birds, give them a nest box. If you don't want baby birds, take immediate action to reduce their hormone levels and get them out of the mood (if it isn't too late already).


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## fluoro.black (Nov 5, 2009)

That definitely sounds like breeding behavior, they are trying to have babies. If you do decide to let them breed, just make sure you do research on how to take care of the chicks incase things don't work out and what to provide the parents with. The hen will need more calcium because the eggs will be using lots of it I think. But yeah, do lots of research, because it's not something I think would be easy.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Thank you. Yes, we do want them to have babies so I'll start doing a lot of reading here to best prepare our birds. Our main concern is to keep them as healthy as possible.

One additional quick question - even though our birds have been very busy constructing a nest in the corner of the cage, is a nest box greatly preferred? We just want to be sure we provide the best conditions for them.

Keith


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Yes, a nest box is best. Wild cockatiel nest in a hole in a tree and a nestbox simulates these conditions. Cockatiels don't really build nests either, they just shred up some of the wood in the tree. Your birds are doing the best they can with what they have available to them, but it's not very close to their natural breeding conditions.

You'll need to decide whether you want the kind of nestbox that hangs inside the cage or outside the cage. Outside is the most convenient if your cage will accomodate it. An outside nestbox has the holes for attaching it on the front of the nestbox, and an inside one has the holes on the back side of the box. You'll need some wood shavings (pine or aspen - NOT cedar) to put in the box. These are usually available in the small animal (rodent) department at pet stores. Kaytee is a nice clean brand, but some brands have a lot of dust which is bad for chicks.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Ok thanks, I guess I'll head out to the pet shop here shortly and get the needed supplies - we want the best possible conditions for our birds.

Keith


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

The outside of cage box has been in place now almost a day and a half now, with white pine shavings inside. The only problem is that our birds seem to still be freaked out by it. I changed the bedding in the bottom of their cage and they've started ripping the newspaper and protecting that corner again.

I even tied a stick of millet by the opening so they would have to get right by it, but no entry yet. our male is finally getting a little closer eye balling it, but seems dis-interested in entering it. 

Is there a reasonable amount of time they normally wait to check it out? Does anyone know any tricks to get them interested?

Thank you, Keith


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I don't have experience in persuading reluctant tiels to enter the nestbox, but there's probably someone here who can help you. It took me by surprise when Shodu laid her first egg (they'd been mating for months with nothing happening) and I bought the nestbox after the egg was laid. I hung up the box and put shavings and the egg inside, and mommy bird was inside the box 10 minutes later. Buster was a little more nervous - it took him a full half hour to go in the box.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Well they still haven't ventured in, but they were sitting on top of it for awhile this morning while roaming around outside their cage - progress I guess.

I'm trying something right now - got the lid propped open so they can check it out more openly. Still, they are constantly busy ripping up newspaper in the corner of the cage floor. I'm keeping an eye out for an egg back there, and will move it to the box if/when that happens. In the meantime I'm just being very patient with our "rascals".


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

We have the first egg!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe more by now she's sitting in the corner protecting the first one. Should we go ahead and move the egg(s) to the nesting box when we have access to them?

My wife is so excited she called one of her friends and told her she is going to be a grandmother again - hee hee


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## Rocky's Rose (Jun 24, 2008)

I'm sorry if I'm mistake but how much over 1 year old is your female? I always read that they should start breeding until over 18months old even if they show breeding behaviour. If I'm wrong I'm sorry but that is what I've read.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Our "little mama" is 13 months old. actually she just laid her second egg less than an hour agur male seems to be a really good daddy, the second she leaves the nest he sits on the eggs until she returns. Both of them want out of the cage a few times during the day to be with us - surely understandable that they need a break.

I've heard that many times the females first egg is infertile, but we just don't want to disturb them right now to do the "candle test". I guess we and our tiels just have to learn about each other.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Still, they are constantly busy ripping up newspaper in the corner of the cage floor. I'm keeping an eye out for an egg back there, and will move it to the box if/when that happens. In the meantime I'm just being very patient with our "rascals".
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OK...if the birds have access to the bottom of the cage to nest then it will be harder to get them to use a box. The problem with the cage floor and newspaper is that it is going to be harder to keep the eggs warm. If the eggs hatch the newspaper also increases the risk for splayed leg.
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*they should start breeding until over 18months old even if they show breeding behaviour*
*-----------------------------------------*
I have always started my hens at 1 year old with no ill effects. Reproduction problems occur more from nutritional and lighting defeciencies.
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*I've heard that many times the females first egg is infertile*
*-----------------------------*
Not always true.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Thank you for the information. Actually they aren't using the newspaper for their bedding, they've just ripped it up and moved it away - so they actually have a spot in the corner about 8" square with just white pine shavings.

My wife put a towel around the lower part of the cage to help prevent drafts. I don't think the eggs go for more than a few seconds without being sat on. the second the female gets up the male is right on them and doesn't budge until she gets back. Actually I think he likes sitting on the eggs, sometimes the female actually has to squeeze in behind him and push him out - hee hee.

It's been two days since the second egg was laid, but they've been covering the nest so well we can't even see if there is a third yet. we try to leave them alone as much as possible - either one will come to the cage door and whistle when they want out for a little bit to sit on our shoulders and preen.

That reminds me of something I wanted to ask - just how long can the eggs not be sat on at this point without ruining them? Asking just in case.

Thanks


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

LOL...males love eggs and babies 

Thats good that there is the shavings under them. When they get off the bedding wiull hold some heat, and the eggs are fine for up to 10-15 mins.. 

Also...to be on the safe side make sure you have a night light or low lighting in the room. The most common cause for loosing eggs is the hen gets spooked in the night and abandons the nest.

Good luck, and keep us posted on how they do. 

Below my signature logo is a link to an online album (slow loading), and it has pix's (scroll done) of candling eggs or at a glance to see if eggs are fertile or not. Fertility ususally is seen after 4-5 days of the start of incubation..


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Thanks for the links, after a quick look through, I see i have some reading to do 

Keith


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> they actually have a spot in the corner about 8" square with just white pine shavings.


You can put a box, basket or bowl in that corner and put the shavings and eggs inside it. This will help keep everything contained. Just make sure that whatever you use is very stable and won't tip when the parents are coming and going. 

If you leave the real nestbox up they'll have time to lose their fear of it, and maybe they'll use it next time they make babies.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

We wound up putting a heavy duty cardboard paper plate in the corner and it seems to be working out great. She keeps her eggs neatly right in the middle of the shavings. By the way, she laid egg #4 this morning - we hope that will be all.

She's eating well and using both the cuttlebone and mineral block, and drinking plenty of water. When she wanted out of the cage yesterday she took a long bath in a dish of water - she deserves a little R and R. Our male is getting a little thin on the back of his head - he doesn't want to leave the nest when he's sitting on it, and she pulls feathers out of the back of his neck to get him away - hee hee

Oh!!!! and one thing - we read where they hold the "bathroom thingy" while nesting, but when they come out of the cage and "let it go" it's just unbelievable how much comes out of one little bird!

Everything seems just fine right now, but I'll be sure and post right away if any problems occur. My wife and I sure do appreciate all the help we get here.


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## Nicky (Jul 3, 2008)

congrats on ur eggs i am waiting patiently for my two he has been making nest for a long time aand she just peeps in


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Nicky - it's cool that your male is building the nest - whenever our male started doing it I guess he "wasn't doing it right". Our female kept tearing up what he did and made it her way - just finicky we think - hee hee

Looks like 4 eggs is going to be it here - which we're glad of so the parents don't get overworked. It would be great if all four hatch and grow up, but our main concern is for the parents health. 

Best of luck with yours also!!


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

I wasn't sure whether to post this under the health or breeding catagory, but since it's related to breeding/nesting i thought this would be the correct place.

Our male has been wonderful at sharing the "sitting" duties, in fact it's almost like he "hovers" waiting until the female leaves the nest so he can sit on the eggs. But he seems to love it so much, it is causing a dilemma for us.

When our female returns to sit on the eggs the "rascal" doesn't want to leave! She has to pull feathers out of the back of his head and neck to get him to move ( of course we hear a lot of skwacks ). It's gotten to the point where when he puts his head down we can see a spot about 3/4" long and 1/2" wide.

I asked at the bird shop where we bought our female and they said she is most likely jealous of him on the eggs. Ok..... finally getting to what i want to ask - they said when they have nesting pairs doing that they rub some Preparation-H on the back of the males head and neck and the female won't do it anymore. They have been breeding birds for many years but it seems kind of radical to me. What are your thoughts on this please? Also, will his feathers grow back after being pulled out?

Thanks, Keith


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I've never heard of the Preparation H idea but it doesn't sound like a good plan to me. Is it feasible to take the female out of the cage until the male leaves the nestbox, then let her back in?

The most common egg-sitting arrangement is for the male to sit during the day and the female to sit at night, although other arrangements are possible. I had to put Buster in another cage at night so Shodu could get her turn. Otherwise he'd try to take over in the middle of the night.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Here's an update of where we are right now.

We've learned so much from this thread that it will be much easier for us the next time. Such as recording the dates the eggs are laid, and marking each. I did note the date of the last egg laid however, and went back every other day on the calender to determine when the first was laid. By that, Dec. 31 should be the 20th day for the first laid egg. One egg has turned a dull gray color and another has started turning. We did finally candle them yesterday and the egg looks solid except for an area at the end of the shells. 

They never would approach and enter the nesting box - we'll know to put it up earlier the next time. The female "insists" on the floor of the cage in the corner to tend her four eggs. We have it set up so it is protected from any drafts. She has been on an "eating frenzy" the past couple of days. She climbs to the door and whistles when it's "bathroom break" time - which I hold her over the kitchen trash can and rub her head, and all is eliminated in 10-15 seconds. she gets a quick bath every couple of days also.

She had pulled feathers from the male so badly - the entire back of his neck and head, starting to get into the orange spots that we had to put him in a seperate cage for his own safety. We took him to an avian vet and after checking him out, said he is in good health - just keep them seperated for awhile. We get him out of the cage and give him a lot of attention and he seems to be adapting very well. They did say it was unusual for a male to be that "mother like".

I'll keep you updated on this "unusual" situation, and my Wife and I are very grateful for your help.

Keith


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Males are _*VERY maternal*_, it is NOT unusual the way he is acting. His feathers will grow back in. I really don't think it is a good idea to separate them. BOTH parents feed the babies. If it is left to just the hen she can get run down quickly devoting all the food to the babies.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Ok, thank you. I think we'll wait to see if indeed the eggs hatch - the first laid will be 20 days this Friday. Then we will put the male back in and see what happens. Hopefully he'll be so busy feeding the chicks he won't make "mama" mad again.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...have you candled the eggs to see if they are viable?

Also...when a egg is ready to pip the parents know. They can feel it moving inside the shell, and this is their signal to start eating more. The main reason is to have a reserve of food in the crop that is softened and fluidy. They will first feed the baby the fluids for a couple of feedings (baby is getting nutrients from the yolk absorbed into the abdomen) then they will feed the softened solids.

With him being away from the eggs he is not able to feel/hear the changes in the egg to prepare himself, he may feed the chicks after hatch, BUT it is going to be a more solid regurgitated food that is very hard for new babies to digest.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Seems as if something terribly wrong is happening here!

For the past couple of hours our female seems "freaked out". She just sits in the top of the cage, and she and the male are being very vocal back and forth. She suddenly doesn't want anything to do with the eggs - even put the male back in the cage and he doesn't want anything to do with them either. They start to arrange them, then they just climb back up and both want out of the cage. 

I took the eggs out one by one to candle them and the female kept attacking me, but once they were back she just ignores them. Candling showed the two gray eggs solid with a clear spot at the end, and and the white eggs about 3/4 solid.

I'm trying to as positive as possible, but I fear that their behavior shows the babies didn't make it! Any last minute advice? this is our first time, and we just don't know what to do!!!

Thank you


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yikes! I'm not sure what is upsetting them. Did the eggs get very cold? 

a possible Plan B. Do you have a heating pad? If so you can set it on low. Take a small cardboard box or clear plastic container with about 2' deep bedding, and place on the heating pad. Lightly mist just the inside walls of the box and close the flaps (box) or put something on top (container, with a slight area not covered) to hold the heat. If you have an outside small thermometer you can stick it in the container. You want to try and keep the heat at 99.5 What you are trying to do is make an tmepory emergency incubator. Just something to keep the eggs warm, especially the ones that still may be good. Go to my online album (link below my signature, page loads slowly) and scroll down and there are candling pix's.

I can advise more on what to do once you determine eggs are good and got them warmed up again (providing the birds have abandoned them)


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

When you candle the eggs you can put the ones you feel are no good back in the nest. Those you can warm up by placing in a cup, with the cup in a container of warm water. Hopefully your birds may set on these. This way if you can get them sitting again the ones in the incubater can be moved to the nest as they start to pip (my album shows what a piping egg looks like) or hatch. Ususally you can show a Daddy bird a baby and he will try to feed. Also you might try to show Daddy and egg and see if he'll follow you to the nest., The males are the maternal ones.

If you have to handfeed from day one there are many of us that can help.

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Do any of your eggs look like the first 2 pix's?...If so they are good. 

First one shows the veins...so 30 hours or more from hatching. The air cell is even arounfd the egg, so the baby has not turned into the piping position.

The 2nd one shows the shell is pipped. The air cell is slanted, because the baby has turned with the beak located near the lowest point. Red vein lines are NOT to the edge of the air cell which means the baby may have drawn the blood into the body, but it it is twerping in the egg it still has to draw the yolk sac into the body.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...here are candling eggs at earlier stages. And a piping egg, etc.

NOTE: As long as the blood veins look red and not real thin and brown then the eggs may still be OK


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Thanks for your quick replies.

Neither bird has shown any interest in the eggs - so I have the "incubation" thingy in place. I haven't got a clue as to their sudden disregard for the eggs. When I took the eggs out of the cage neither seemed to care. 

Right now they are both on my shoulder preening each other - just like before!

I'll keep a close watch on things and let you know.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Good luck. Hopefully you got to the eggs in time to save a few. 

If they are preening each other, don't be surprised if you see more eggs in a week or so.

Average hatch time is 18 days for the first egg in the clutch to hatch, and then a hatch every other day afterwards. The hen might have got impaitient and thought since the first egg hadn't hatched she may have decided to abandom the clutch.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Thank you so much for your help. I'll post back how the incubation goes the next few days. We try to "read" our birds the best we can, as to what they want/need - but it's hard to do sometimes.

They are cuddled up next to each other right now on the perch where they sleep - no interest at all as to where the eggs were. they seem very healthy, happy, and content, and that's the most important thing to us.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

I tried putting the eggs back in the nest for awhile this morning and each parent came down and arranged them but didn't settle down on them. they are both wanting out of the cage right now, so since I have to leave for a few hours I'm returning the eggs back to the "incubator". I'll candle the eggs when I get back.

A couple of quick questions - isn't it only ok to leave the eggs 'unwarmed for 10-15 minutes ? I just don't want to let them get too cooled off. and.... should I keep trying to reintroduce the eggs to the nest as the parents seem more calmer?

thanks, I'll check back later


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

10-15 min is fine as far as the eggs and cooling.

Once you candle the eggs to see how they are developing you'll know from the pix's how close to hatch you are. What I would suggest is to incubate them. Once you see an egg pipping, and hear it chirping in the egg, hold it and let the male hear it.

If you have any eggs that don't look good just leave them in the nest. Hopefully if the male gets interested he may sit on the piping egg and all of them to hatch it out. OR PLAN B...if the male shows an interest in the egg and races to the feed dish and starts chowing down that is a good sign. Every few hours let him hear the baby vocalizing in the egg so that he can start holding some food and fluid in his crop to try to feed the baby. If the hen has no interest at all let just the male feed and raise the baby/babies.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Here is an article I have online. http://justcockatiels.weebly.com/assist-hatches.html

Read it foe a 'Just in Case' situation. it has alot of info in regards to candling and monitoring the eggs, and assessing if there is a problem going on inside, etc.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Ok, I just got back. I candled the eggs - I hope my description is somewhat understandable as this is my first time doing this. 

In three of the eggs I can see the veins - this includes the two gray and one white egg. The other white egg is solid with the clear area taking up about 1/4 of the space - no visible signs of veins. I guess it could be the first egg which was not fertile or maybe the last which is 11 days today.

When candling the darkest gray egg it looked like the chick was moving around, thought I saw the shape of the head. Coulda' been because I was excited/nervous and was shaking a little - hee hee. 

Due to the circumstances going on I'll try not to get too optimistic - but it's just great that help is so near, Thanks.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...it sounds live you have some live babies in the egg. From here on out it is a wait and see. 

What I would suggest now is to put a small shot glass of warm water in the corner of your incubator. 2-3 times a day lightly sprinkle some drops of water on the bedding only, not on the eggs. This helps to maintain humidity.

ALSO if you have a fine tip marker on the side of each egg put an *X *on one side, and an *O *on the other. Every 4-6 hours turn the eggs so that either the X or O is facing up. Also watch the eggs. When you see the first sign of a pip mark, you will not have to turn the egg anymore. Let Daddy bird listen to the egg and watch to see if he starts to eat fast. Once pipped you will also want to cool the egg down for 15-20 min, and set in the coolest area of the incubator with the pip side UP. The cooling down stimulates the baby to move and contract to try and start to draw the blood into the body, and next the yolk. Once the baby does this it will start to cut out of the egg. This happens FAST!

GOOD LUCK...Birdie Daddy


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Got everything set up as suggested. Actually our male has spent a lot of time sitting on the empty cage nest today, so if indeed an egg starts to pip, we think he will be ready to " take over" . Guess it's time to let mother nature take over for the next few days.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Fingers crossed that Daddy bird will hatch out and raise the baby. When an egg hatches the Daddy birds get so excited that he will call and run back and forth and if they could talk they'd be yelling: "Come Look!!!"


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Thanks for the "just in case" link, I've been reading through it.

We're keeping close tabs on the eggs in our "incubator". Keeping the temp as close to 95 degrees as possible, keeping moisture in there, and turning the eggs every 4-6 hours. It works out well that my wife and I have different schedules. I don't hit the hay until about midnight - check the temp and turn the eggs, and she gets up at 5 AM and does the same. 

One good thing I've noticed - all day today our male has spent a lot of time in the nest area in the cage - so if the eggs do start to pip, we can put them back in and he will probably take good care during the hatching/feeding process.

Checking on things to get ready - our Avian Vet gave us a recipe for food for the parents so they could easily feed it to the chicks. They said put several pieces of soft wheat bread in a food processor and chop it, but stop before it gets doughy, then do the same with hard boiled eggs and shredded carrots. then place it in the cage near the nest. 

Also our local bird shop ( where we bought our female ) has feed for the chicks in the event the parents don't feed them. So...... I'm thinking we pretty have all the bases covered. Of course, it's all dependent upon the eggs hatching after all they've been through. Gotta' say that my wife are being very optimistic about it.

Ok.... gotta' go check on things, and I'll post back as to the progress. Once again, your support through this is very much appreciated


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

In regards to food for the parents to feed...you MUST have them used to it and already eating it prior to hatch.

From personal experience I do not like to feed parents anythinhg that is mushy and moist. It is so easy to have this stuff gunk up the insides of the babies mouths, which then can lead to yeast or bacteria infection, and/or an impaction in the throat.

Here is an article I wrote that tells some things to watch for: http://justcockatiels.weebly.com/sloppy-feeders.html

The males of most bird species are very maternal. I just had a horrendous morning where a very frantic Daddy bird (a mousebird) called to me to tell me there was a problem with his baby. If he didn't do what he did I would have lost the baby.

In re-reading your posting temp should be 99.5. I may have made a typo. BUT, this lower temp will just slow down and delay the hatch. To be on the safe side very gradually increase it alittle.

Give that daddy bird an extra peice of millet for being a good boy


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Alrighty, I got the temp bumped up, and daddy bird loved the millet stalk.

As of this morning we see pipping on three eggs. With two of them we can hear occasional pecks. With the third egg ( furthest along ) we can hear the chick chirping also, it still hasn't broken through just yet.

I guess this would be the very best time to reintroduce the eggs to the parents. Hopefully the female won't start yanking all the feathers off the male again. I guess if we have to seperate them we'd have to see which one is tending the eggs best ( if they even do ).

What is the longest time the egg can go unwarmed at this point in the event neither bird wants to sit on it? I thought I'd just try the one that has the chirping.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

If the egg is pipping, heat is not as critical. For up to 30 min room temp is fine.

HOLD the loudest, closest to hatch egg up to Daddy birds ear so that he can hear the baby. Place it in the nest (one at a time) to see if he will roll it and sit on it. If all goes well add an egg as the other hatches.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

A lot of chirping from two of the eggs, so I went ahead and put them back in the cage nest. Our male went right to them nestled them around and has been sitting on them non-stop. He is actually very protective of them - oh yeah.... I now have another bandaid on my hand - hee hee.

Our female seems to care less about them, but we will keep a close eye on the interaction.

The other two eggs - The gray one ( which I assume is the most mature ) doesn't look promising via candling. Only about 1/3 of it shows a dark mass, and rotating it shows a lot of liquid, appears real watery. But there are veins showing. The remaining egg doesn't show any veins, even if it was the last laid it has been 14 days. Even so. I'll keep them incubated for awhile longer.

I'll post back any changes - thanks for "hanging in there" with me.

Keith


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...YAY!!!...Let the male have the eggs. KEEP the female AWAY. I'd be afraid she may harass him and harm the babies.

The dark fluidy egg, trash it. The one with no veins, add to the clutch with the others. As long as the egg is kept warm by the Daddy. the egg will hold warmth that will help keep any chicks warm when daddy bird leave to eat. The babies will also use this egg to prop their little head on.

Please keep us posted. GO DADDY BIRD...WHAT A GOOD BIRD


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Don't get alarmed when you see the parent off the nest eating when some babies hatch. if there is other eggs still due to hatch they will use these as warmth. If you think they are getting cold when the parent is off them the easiest way to check is to hold the palm of your hand 1" above their backs. If you feel heat radiating from them, they are fine. 

OK...if all your eggs hatch out you may have to help daddy bird feed. Here is an assist hatch article that tells some things to look for and when you need to help out:
http://justcockatiels.weebly.com/assist-feeding-chicks.html

And (moderrators *please* allow this link) this is a link to another forum I have been posting to. It starts off with a video showing feeding an assist hatch baby someone brought her: http://forums.avianavenue.com/nursery-rhyme-drive/7578-little-baby-cockatiel.htm Her experience has been rather rocky, so there is some info you can watch for, just in case you have to hand feed from day 1, and also if problems arise, what to do.

GOOD LUCK, and I hope you have healthy happy beautiful babies


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Daddy bird is doing a very good job thus far. We will move the female to the other cage as suggested. Maybe because this is her first clutch and she's only 14 months old she just doesn't know how to "handle it" yet.

Daddy bird is so protective, if we even approach the cage he spreads his wings to cover his "treasure" and hisses. But we think that's a good sign - we just leave him alone.

Thank you for the links, I've got a lot of reading to do 

We hate to lose two eggs, but it may be for the best so the parent(s) don't get "over-taxed" and they remain healthy.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...watch how he acts with the hen gone. if to frantic you might want to have her caged side by side or allow her in with him with supervision, especially when the babies hatch. _*MAYBE* _watching him her maternal instincts may kick in. As to the plucking she did, that is not very common, but _*is normal*_ with some pairs. It's part anxiety and boring, and over-preening. His feather should start to grow back shortly.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

So far so good, we haven't relocated our girlie yet. she mostly wants to sit at the cage door, and daddy doesn't seem to mind at all when we take her out for awhile. When she goes down to the nest he steps off and she checks things out briefly then walks away - so maybe they can co-exist ok, we'll keep a close eye on things.

BTW - the link you asked the moderators not to delete doesn't open, so I'll PM you my email address shortly so you can send it to me.

Thanks.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...as to the PM. 

Now that it is night you'll have to weatch to make sure a parent stays on the nest all during the night (except for short breaks, of course) Under normal cercumstances the fgemale sits the night and the males during the day. Hopefully your male is maternal enough that he's going to say: The heck with convention, these eggs are mine, and I'm guarding them with my life"


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

The male stayed on the nest until their bedtime, and I watched them for awhile and both birds were snuggled together up in their sleeping platform and wouldn't budge, so I put the eggs back in the incubator for the night. 

I turned the eggs about an hour ago and went to check the temperature before I got on the computer just now , and............... the "tally" had changed ! The count is now 3 eggs and one noisy chick!!!!!

I put the chick and other egg in the nest but as good as the male was yesterday he wont go near them. The female was freaking out so bad I had to get her out and put her in a seperate cage . 

I have a call in to the bird shop - hopefully they listen to my message on New Years day - because they do have hand feeding supplies. I'm also going to call the avian vet emergency number to see if I can get the needed feeding supplies.

Of all days for the chick to hatch! It's been about ten minutes now so if the male doesn't get busy in the next 5 minutes I'll return the chick and egg to the incubator for now.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

The parents didn't want anything to do with the chick. In fact after 15 minutes they were still at the top of the cage wanting out, so I returned the chick and egg to the incubator.

Might be because their cage has been moved to another room because some people are coming to pick up some furniture shortly. Does the chick need to be as warm as the eggs? Can it be left in the cage longer than 15 minutes not being set on?

No reply from the bird shop or avian vet, so I guess I'll run down to Walgreens and get a syringe, I guess we can feed baby formula for now?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...if the chick is vocalizing real loud it could be trapped in the shell. Do you see a pip mark. When you candle the egg you will feel the little feet kicking/thumping on the lower half of the egg (pointy end) and should see movement on the air cell end. Also look where the solid mass meets the air cell. At the edge is the veins still red or have they receeded? If receeded, and you see head movement and feel thumping the chick could be trapped by the membrane fixing it in place preventing it from turning to cut out of the egg.

I'll wait for your responce. Also go over the assist hatch article if needed. If needed, let me know, I can give you my phone # and talk you thru it over the phone if there is a problem.

It looks like you may have a New Years baby!

As to the male, he may be unsure of what to do because of how the hen is acting.

LAST RESORT food for the baby if you can't get supplies today. OK...the ONLY thing the baby needs for the first 12 hours after hatch is fluids, such as first a drop of water. If you do not have a syringe (can find some at a pharmacy) you can use a Q-tip, slightly soggie and place it along the side of the babies beak, and let a little fluid flow slowly into the side of the mouth. If you don't have pedialyte on hand you can boli some rice in lightly salted water until firm not soggy. Drain off the water, let cool, and use this as fluids as the next feeding after the water drop. You can mash up the rice and swish out the inside of peas and mix together for an emergency formula til you can get some. I can post pix's on how to hold the head for handfeeding and last resort if you still don't have a syringe the wide end of a flat toothpick cane be used to feed the baby. But for the first 12 hours or so the babies priority is fluids because it has absorbed the egg yolk and will be digesting that as the main source of nutrients.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

If you have pellets you can also smassh them into powder as a tmeporary handfeeding formula. Us the rice water to mix it.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

I was in a hurry I guess, and didn't explain well. The chick is totally hatched, the little guy is crawling all over the incubator nest. It was fully out of the egg about 9am

I just got a syringe at Walgreens, and since we babysit our grandbaby alot we do have the rice powder we make formula with. Maybe later on when we get the cage back in the living room where it normally is, Daddy bird will settle down and we can try to introduce the chick to him again. I hope he does accept it so I won't have to get up in the middle of the night to feed!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

WOW!...a New Years baby...CONGRATULATIONS!!

You will have to post pix


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

What a way to start the New Year 

Remeber food is not the first priority...just fluids. You can look at the abdomen to see the size of the yolk sac thru the skin. Once you see that it has *started to reduce in size *that is the good ahead to start solids. It ususally takes 2-3 days before the yolk is fully absorbed....you will be just watching for the first change.
OK...here are some pix's just for reference. I am left handed, so if you are right handed you will have to reverse handposition. Keeping thge formula warm will be a problem. Mix the formula in a small shot glass and you can keep it warm in a warm pan of water.

The assist feeding article should have a pop up pix of the size of the crop from the first fluid feeding.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Thanks for the pics. I tried it myself but the rascal is so small I only got a couple of drops down. I think I'll wait till my wife gets home shortly to help with it. I think a smaller syringe will make it easier also - I'll get a smaller one from the birdshop in the morning.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes...they are TINY  You might try the wet Q-tip...


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Ok.... I'm going to try and put a couple pics here, sorry about being blurry, My wife hadn't attempted a close up pic with her new camera yet, and by the time she downloaded them the baby was tucked back in 

If I can't get the pic on here I'll at least try to post the links. Here goes ~



















If this didn't work you'll have to let me how to on this board.

Thanks, Keith


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...the trick to a good close-up pix is to take the pix from 18-24" away on the AUTO setting of the camera. When you download it into the computer crop the pix so that there is only an inch or so of the background surrounding the baby. This will enlarge the pix and show all the details.

The babies skintone looks great.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

I "assumed" that since the eggs were laid every day that they would hatch in the same time frame, but.... our chick was raising cain a little while ago so we thought it was feeding time so I uncovered the bowl and saw the second egg ( the one I have a black dot on in the pic ) had the pip spot broken through. 

So I called my wife in and we watched and it has over half the shell cracked in about ten minutes. Gotta' go, my wife just hollered up that it's almost complete now, so I wanna' go down and watch 

BTW - as of the second feeding, the chick is "chowing down" very nicely - opens it's mouth as soon as the syringe touches it's beak.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

It is amazing how fast they can zip around inside the egg and get out. You got to see something that most normally don't get to see 

That is GREAT that you have a good feeding responce!!!


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Chick #2 was fully out of the egg at 6:30 this evening. It's first thing to do was crawl all the way around the nest and cuddle up to it's sibling. We just can't believe the first chick hatched at 9am has already grown a good coat of yellow fuzz!

Just one question for now, We believe the feeding schedule is every 2 1/2 to 3 hours. Can the time be extended overnight?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes...during the first night every 2-3 hours. If you have a gram scales you can weigh the baby.. Average hatch weight is 4-6 grams. The baby will double the hatch weight in a day. Ovbernight you can extend time to every 4 hours.

Quite possibly why you got 2 hatches today is because the parents did not start fully incubating until the 3rd egg was layed.

When hatched the down is wet. When it dries then they look like little fuzzblalls


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## Rocky's Rose (Jun 24, 2008)

oh my gosh I forgot how small the chicks are when their born.

Your luck to have seen them hatch. When my pair's chicks hatched in April I was at Driver's Ed classes and didn't get to see any of them hatch.

*reads last four pages of posts*
Funny that your male is so maternal, mine was the complete opposite. My male killed the first chick, and we had to take him out and let the female raise the other two chicks. 

Good luck with your chicks. I hope they grow big and healthy.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

We are going to hand raise them it looks like. We put both birds on the table by the incubator bowl to let them look and hear, but neither showed any interest - they took off the other way. We're leary of the male right now anyhow - he's really "moody". One minute he whistles to be picked up and later on if we walk within two feet of they cage he comes charging across the top flies to our shoulder and starts attacking the neck/ears.

Went to the bird shop this morning, the owner is a very nice lady. We sat down and talked for over half an hour, and she wrote out all feeding instructions and walked me through them. Then she gave me several of the proper size syringes and a whole tub of feed powder ( Embrace Plus ) at no charge. She also said we could bring the chicks in if we get in trouble and they would take care of them - no idea what they charge for that.

We did have a rough time feeding them the new formula - they just didn't seem to want to open their beaks during the past feeding. I guess we are afraid of trying to force them open because the head is so tiny - kinda hard to find a spot without pushing on those big eyes. Two hours until the next feeding, we'll see how that goes.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

That is so nice that the lady at the petshop was so helpful 

As to the baby...sometimes gently tapping the side of the beak should get a feeding responce, especially if you see that the crop is empty. 

As to handling the head it is kinda cradled between your fingers, and you would use the index finger parralel with the opening of the beak and slowly turn your nail to assist in opening the beak.


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## keith1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Ok.... We were blessed with our last baby at 2:00 this afternoon. So as not to go off topic - as now it's a matter of feeding/caring for babies, I will let this lengthy thread rest. I sincerely hope the information given within will help other "newbies" on this topic.

Thanks everyone for your input. A special thanks goes out to srtiels for "hanging in there" with my wife and I through this ordeal.

srtiel gave us an excellent suggestion to help other "newbies" who run into Unexpected circumstances such as ours when the parents abandon the eggs/babies. So I will post a new thread about our "homemade" incubator, and how it saved our babies. I'll have it put together later this evening or tomorrow.

Keith


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Congratulations on the baby...Way to go Grandpa Birdie


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