# Shreddable toys for single female?



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Hello all!

I have recently adopted a lutino cockatiel who was rescued from terrible circumstances of neglect. Because the bird is a rescue, we do not know his/her parentage, and the rescue assumed my bird was a male. However, since I've been doing more reading about mutations and genetics, I know it's pretty likely that since my bird is a lutino, she is also female. 

My question is, how careful do I have to be about birdy hormones if I have not seen any hormonal behavior from her? I do not want her ever laying eggs if I can prevent it. I read that when trying to avoid nesting, females should not be given any shreddable toys. Does this also apply if she is not showing any other nesting/hormonal behaviors? I hate to take her shreddable toys away, because they are really the only things she enjoys playing with, and I know she never had any toys in her previous life.  

My family has a male 'tiel who is almost 19 years old, so I'm very familiar with general cockatiel care, but I've never had a female bird, and this is my first "solo" owned pet. (My family lives in another state, so my female is an only-bird right now.) Thanks for your help!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The majority of lutinos are female but there are quite a few males too, so it's possible you have a male. But assuming she's female is a good idea because then you'll be on the alert for nesting behavior.

The main thing to be careful of with shreddables is paper lying on a flat surface (like the bottom of the cage) that she can tear up to make a nesting area. Shreddable toys that hang up are usually OK since she won't be planning to lay eggs on something that's dangling in mid-air. If she has access to flat paper but doesn't tear it up, there isn't a problem. But if she starts doing a lot of heavy-duty shredding, you need to prevent access and start on hormone reduction techniques.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Thank you! I think she also has some pearl markings, but it's difficult to tell, because she was almost completely bald (from being plucked by other birds in her over-crowded cage) when she was rescued, and she hasn't completely feathered out yet. 

Her favorite toys are munch balls and Shredders, so I'm glad I don't have to take those from her right now. Unfortunately, she does have access to paper towels on the bottom of her cage, because she also has motor issues from her neglect, and falls a lot. I can't safely use a grate with her.  So far she hasn't torn up the paper towels, though, so I'll keep an eye out from that. 

We estimate she is four years old, so hopefully old enough to have established a non-breeding pattern. I'm definitely taking precautions, though.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Four years old is prime breeding age, so it's possible that she may get hormonal as she becomes more comfortable and healthier in her new home. But for now at least it sounds like all is well!

Is she willing to eat a balanced diet or is she a seed junkie? Good nutrition will help maximize her recovery from physical problems.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

We are working on her diet. When I adopted her a month ago, she had only ever eaten millet. She also had what we suspect to be a bacterial infection (despite being quarantined/vet checked at the rescue) and lost almost 18 grams before she got on antibiotics and started eating better. She also initially had a lot of issues with balancing to eat from a dish, so I have done a lot of trial and error to get a good cage setup. 

Currently she eats Volkman's cockatiel seed (which is at least more balanced than plain millet), Nutriberries, and a few Roudybush pellets. I'm hoping to eventually convert her to a higher proportion of pellets, but our big concern right now is just getting her to gain weight, because she is still thin. She also gets a variety of brown rice, whole wheat spaghetti, scrambled egg, peas, carrots, green beans, broccoli, and an assortment of leafy greens. She eats those with varying success, but I'm determined to keep offering them. 

The rescue did a great job with her, but there's just no undoing that kind of neglect in the one month before I adopted her. She spent the first 4 years of her life crammed in an 8"x12" cage with two other 'tiels, with no perches or toys or anything but millet and water. She was plucked completely bald except for some broken tailfeathers and some mangled primaries. But she is the sweetest bird, she LOVES human interaction, and she is doing better every day. She's about 95% feathered in now, is gaining weight, and is able to climb/balance much better. I'm hopeful that eventually she'll be very strong and healthy. And if not, I'm more than happy to modify things for her.

Do you have any other tips on helping her recover? I've done a ton of reading, but I'm always looking for advice.  I recently bought a full spectrum light for her, but I'm not sure how best to start her off with it since she's never had one before. Do you have an opinion on that? 

Thanks so much for your help!


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## morla (Aug 15, 2011)

Cockatiel love toys!


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## pink.snootchies (Jan 23, 2011)

awe poor thing, glad someone rescued her...i know the Zupreeme fruit pellets has worked amazing wonders (i am going to go out on a limb and swear by these pellets) for Flint, she had major issues when i got her, she just was not up to par, in about 2 weeks after starting them on these she got alot healthier. Maybe try offering her some of these?


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## AMSD (Nov 2, 2010)

My girl love to chew and shred things and has never tried to build a nest or anything.
She shares her cage with a boy but they aren't a bonded pair.

She can get quite hormonal but has never tried nesting or laid an egg.
She has access to shreddable toys and forage dishes filled with paper pellets and torn up brown paper bags etc... I give her the benefit of the doubt but if she ever displays any sign of nesting I will take those things away from her.
I would just play it by ear with her and see how she goes 

Scout wouldn't play with anything if she couldn't shred it up! Haha


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

pink.snootchies said:


> i know the Zupreeme fruit pellets has worked amazing wonders (i am going to go out on a limb and swear by these pellets) for Flint, she had major issues when i got her, she just was not up to par, in about 2 weeks after starting them on these she got alot healthier. Maybe try offering her some of these?


The rescue actually tried her on them for the month before I adopted her. She wouldn't touch them, just thought it was a fun game to throw them out of the cage. My vet recommended trying the smaller, naturally-colored pellets because they look more like millet. So far we've tried Zupreme Natural, Harrison's High Potency, and Roudybush. The Roudybush parakeet ones are the only ones she'll touch at all. I might try the fruit ones again in the future, though. I still have a ton. 



AMSD said:


> I give her the benefit of the doubt but if she ever displays any sign of nesting I will take those things away from her.
> I would just play it by ear with her and see how she goes


I think that's exactly what I'm going to do. I'm glad to hear it's worked for other female birds.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

She looks gorgeous! The Lafeber company says that Nutriberries are a complete food that's nutritionally equivalent to pellets, so you can count them as pellets consumed. Most cockatiels love Nutriberries, and getting a bird to accept them is a lot easier than getting them to accept pellets. 

Since she likes to play with munch balls, you could try stuffing veggies or other edibles inside a munch ball that you expect her to destroy in the very near future. Shredding can lead to eating! I sometimes stuff greens inside cat balls like the picture below. I don't know how much gets eaten but the birds enjoy pulling the greens out:










Full spectrum lights should be placed very close to the bird (within two feet) because the UVB doesn't travel very far. The bird also needs to be able to get away from the light when it wants to. My cage has a wire top on one side and a play top with a solid tray on the other, so I can put the full spectrum light on top of the wire side and the birds can go under the play top if they don't want the light glaring on them.

Full spectrum lights aren't the only way to give your bird vitamin D3. Pellets and Nutriberries contain vit D and will fill her needs if she eats enough of them. Taking her out into the sunshine for a fairly short period will also do the job - I think the amount needed is something like 30 minutes a week. She's getting egg, which has some vitamin D in the yolk, but birds shouldn't eat too much egg so this probably isn't a major source of vit D for her. The recommended amount of egg for healthy nonbreeding birds is a small amount once or twice a week, but I don't know whether a larger amount would be appropriate in her case. Vitamin-enriched seed is basically useless since the vitamins are sprayed on the hull which the bird doesn't eat.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Stuffing things in those balls is such a good idea! I'll definitely have to get some for her. She seems to enjoy things that require a little bit of foraging effort, so maybe that will get her interested. 

The vet recommended egg and starchy fresh foods several times a week until she regains at least some of the weight she's lost. So far she's back up 4 grams from her lowest weight, so it seems to be working. I'll definitely decrease it once her keel bone is less prominent. 

For the full spectrum light, how long should I use it each day? Do I need to start her off with less time and increase? Her cage is 24"x36" so it should be possible to have it shine in one side and not the other. I live in an urban apartment complex, so taking her outside is not so easy. Plus I have read that full spectrum lighting has additional psychological benefits.


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## KateBascombe (Sep 27, 2010)

Nutriberries are great, but just remember since they are still seed they're slightly higher in fat. Great for her for now, but when she's back up to weight keep an eye on how many she gets!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> For the full spectrum light, how long should I use it each day?


Recommendations vary but 2-6 hours seems to be typical. It's also common to recommend the smaller number of hours for small birds and the larger number for bigger parrots. So 2-3 hours seems like a reasonable internet-based amount for cockatiels. But you might get better advice if you asked your vet for advice.



> Nutriberries are great, but just remember since they are still seed they're slightly higher in fat.


Different pellet brands have different amounts of fat and Nutriberries are in the same general range. Zupreem Fruitblend is 4%, Harrisons Adult Lifetime Fine is 6%, Roudybush Maintenance is 7%, and Nutriberries are 6% so they actually have less fat than Roudybush.

Harrisons High Potency is 12% fat and is nutrition-boosted in other ways. If you can convince her to eat it, this would be good for her until she reaches her health goals. There's information on the High Potency Fine at http://www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/High-Potency-Fine/products/13/ Harrisons is expensive so you can try asking the company for a free sample. It's available through veterinarian offices, not pet stores. You can locate sellers at http://www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/buy/index.html


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I will ask my vet about the light when we have our next appointment. He wants to see Roo for a recheck of all her issues in a few weeks, so I'll just start with a few hours a day in the meantime.  

I actually got the Harrison's pellets way back at our first vet visit, but she flat out refuses to eat them. I've tried offering them mixed with seed, by themselves, as a treat while she's eating dinner with me, even ground up and sprinkled on brown rice, which she loves. No luck. The only thing I can't do is take away the seed, since she already lost so much weight. Baby steps, I guess. At least she seems moderately interested in the Roudybush.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Harrisons must not taste very good, because it seems to be more difficult to get a cockatiel to eat it than with any other brand. But she's eating Roudybush and Nutriberries so that's a good thing.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

My lovies would never touch it either. You'd think for such expensive pellets, they'd take into account whether or not the birds would actually eat it.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

How much leeway do I have with hormonal behaviors? Tonight I saw what I think might have been a courtship display toward my laptop. But I'm not sure, and she's not being hormonal toward me or nesty in her cage. Do I just not let her near the computer again, or is this a case where I have to go into full-on prevention mode? I know I'm paranoid, but she's still having feather issues and underweight, so I don't want to compromise her health. On the other hand, I'm also reluctant to radically rearrange her cage or take away toys, because she is obviously traumatized and just starting to calm down.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

What did the display look like? If it involved stretching both wings out to the max, that wasn't courtship. This display (preferably performed while hanging upside down, but sometimes done upright) is more about saying "I'm tough, don't mess with me".

If she was rubbing her vent on the computer then yeah, that's sexual.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Head down, tail up a little. She might have been asking for head scritches, though. I am admittedly too paranoid for my own good at times.


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## elinore (Jul 22, 2010)

I had good luck switching my pellet-resistant girl onto ZuPreem Natural pellets. I had tried everything, with no success, until I thought to crush the pellets before offering them. Maggie loved them! She wasn't at all interested in the fruit flavored ones, but the Natural diet she loved as long as it was crushed. I would use two shallow bowls as a sort of mortar and pestel to grind the balls into pieces (not ground to powder, more to a coarse sandy consistency, like what's left at the very bottom of a chip bag or cereal box, if that makes any sense). My uncle's rescued male tiel also likes the pellets when they're ground up, but mostly just plays with the whole ones. Sounds like your new girl has entered birdie paradise: an owner who loves her and who is willing to figure out what she needs. Good for you, and good for her!!!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Thank you, elinore.  Maybe I will try that with her Roudybush. She seems to like the taste of it the best. She's gained 4 grams this week, so something's working!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Head down, tail up a little. She might have been asking for head scritches, though.


That could be courtship behavior but it sounds more like a request for scritches. A laptop would be a pretty strange object of affection! There's probably nothing to worry about unless she gets into some overt nesting behavior, like shredding the paper in the bottom of the cage.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

You are probably right. She's very affectionate and demanding of both scritches and cuddles. It's really impressive, actually, considering that she was both neglected and unhandled until two months ago.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It's very likely that she was a handfed baby and formed good associations with human hands before she got into the bad-home situation.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

According to the previous owner, she was not. She was the product of an accidental breeding between siblings, and the only one of her clutch that survived when the owner failed to intervene. The owner didn't know what to do with her, and left her in the little 12"x8" for the first four years of her life. When the parents plucked her bald, the owner assumed they were doing it because she was "defective." She never even had a name before she was surrendered in July.  

The rescue had her for a month before I adopted her, and I think they did some work to tame her. I also think on some level, she knows we're helping her.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

She must have an extraordinarily good temperament if she was never tame or handled before she was rescued. The poor thing is probably so glad to get out of that tiny overcrowded cage that she would be friendly with anything.

The parents picked her because things like that happen when birds are overcrowded and have nothing else to do. Some of the problems she's having now might be inborn defects due to closely related parents. But it might be more likely that she never got to develop her physical skills as a juvenile. Chicks are very clumsy when they first leave the nest and learn skills by trying to do things. If she's been crammed in a small cage since birth she wouldn't have had much opportunity to climb around, fly, etc. It will be much more difficult for her to learn these skills as an adult since the proper developmental window closed a long time ago, but it's not impossible. In a few months she might be much more skillful than she is now.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

She is already more skillful than she was when I got her a month ago, so I have hope. I think that's partly from not being sick and being on a more nutritional diet, but I've also watched her figure out how to climb, play with toys, etc. We started off with everything in her cage about 3" off the ground, and towels in the bottom for padding. Now she's worked up to having a ladder and a higher perch, and although she still falls occasionally, she seems very comfortable with it the great majority of the time. She gets natural wood perches that are slightly wider than normal 'tiel size because these seem easier for her, and also has a rest platform in one of the corners. 

I'm not sure she'll ever be as skillful as a 'tiel who grew up well cared for, but as long as she can be happy, that is fine with me. My job is researching ways to help people with physical problems cope/recover, so I really think she ended up with me for a reason. 

I'm torn on whether I ever want to let her learn to fly. Right now I'm leaning toward not, because my apartment is small, and I'm afraid she'd get hurt. I guess I'll see where she is in a few months, though. Thank you for all your help.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Small rooms can actually help a fully flighted bird stay safe. Having to turn frequently prevents the bird from building up too much speed. 

Cockatiels are powerful flyers, and many can fly even when they're clipped. If you want to let her learn how to fly but want to limit her speed/distance/altitude capabilities, you can give her a light clip that won't stop her from flying but will slow her down some.

She might do well with a rope perch. They're easy to grip and very comfortable for the feet. Cholla perches are good too, all those little holes give the bird something to hang on to. Something to chew on too, my birds like to do cholla carpentry.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Sort of along the same lines -- I recently got Roo a wire resting ledge, and now she spends quite a lot of time hanging out on it. Should I worry that this could be a potential nest spot, or not since it isn't a solid surface? I'm so torn with all of this. I want her to be comfortable, but I don't want eggs.


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## chloe92us (Jul 12, 2011)

Check out these awesome pine platform perches! These are Mango's absolute favorite places to rest (he has 2 of them in his cage). He sleeps on them too. The only down side is they are nearly impossible to keep clean. I'm in the US, but she ships out of Washington once a week and the shipping cost was very reasonable. She also makes amazing toys and has a great selection of perches.

http://www.thingsforwings.ca/Pine-Platforms-Perches_c_87.html


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Thanks.  I'm worried that might make her even more hormonal, though? I don't know. I'm having a hard time judging whether she actually has a problem being hormonal or not. Sometimes when I have her out, I could swear she's giving me a courtship display. But she's not doing anything nesty inside the cage, and this has been going on for a couple weeks, so it doesn't seem to be escalating.

Should I be worried about this, or only if she actually appears to be getting ready to nest? I've tried to increase her dark hours, but I have to leave for work around 7 am, so I can only get up to about 10 hours or she won't get any time with me at all.


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