# What a morning!!



## Plukie (Aug 26, 2007)

This is what has been happening in our household today...I was at my wits end with Dooby, he's just a nasty little ratbag and that is that. So, I phoned his breeder, she is really magic and knows so much about birds, I explained the situation to her and I asked if she would take him back as a breeder rather than a pet. This was her response, she said that she couldn't take him back because all her tiels were paired in the aviary and he wouldn't be able to go in there because that's where his mother is anyway, so she wasn't really able to offer him a home. Then I was chatting to her about what I've done with him, how he is etc. etc. and I said that I have him in a lovely big cage....she stopped me right there and said that, that is contributing to the problem. She said that so many people go out and buy the biggest and best cage that they can for their tiels and think they are doing the right thing, but by doing that and giving them plenty of space, it is also making them feel that they are in an aviary environment and that when it comes to the hormonal surge at Dooby's age, he knows that there should be another tiel in the cage with him because it's just too big for one!! Then we went on to talk about his wings being clipped, she said was I in the same room when he had them done, I told her that I was and she said that he now doesn't trust me because of that. So, her suggestion was to take him out to her, she will clip his wings again (because they have grown back and he's flying) I will stay out of the room whilst she is doing it so that he doesn't associate me with it. Then at least he can't fly at us and attack us, that sort of worked a bit before as well. Also........she has two hand reared babies that have just taken their maiden flight, she is going to get them sexed and if one is a female...Dooby is going to get a mate. I said the usual things about the female being too young etc. etc. she said that it really wouldn't matter, that the female won't mate until she is ready and then only if there is a breeding box....ok, so that's one "fear" sorted. She said that she is 95% sure that that will sort Dooby out, that he wants a mate and that the cage is too big for him on his own and that is compounding the fact that he *IS* on his own, so making him frustrated and obviously a female human just won't do!! So, from being absolutely sure that I don't want another tiel, that Dooby is going to be fine on his own, I am now waiting for the results of a DNA test to ascertain whether one of the babies is a female and then little "Daisy" will be coming into our lives. If one of the babies that she has at the moment isn't a female, then the breeders have another clutch being sat on at the moment and we will try again with them. She seems to think that all the training in the world won't help him if he is really sexually frustrated, so I'm hoping that she is right and that is what the problem is. She said to give it another eight to ten months and if things don't improve, well I'll have a breeding pair to sell.........yeah, right! I can see me selling them. It is either that or keeping them in the cage all the time and of course they would have the life of luxury but they just wouldn't be able to fly around. I'm not too keen on that idea, I love to see a bird flying free. Anyway, now I'm going on about what might or might not happen in the future, I'll stick to the present and if by getting the Doobster a mate it calms him down and makes him happy, then so be it. I can honestly say I have done everything I can do stop him being so mean to us, I've read books, I've asked advice, I've clicker trained, I've covered him up, put him lower down, ignored him, rewarded him....I've cried my eyes out with frustration over him and nobody or nowhere have I ever read or heard that a cage could be too big and that he is frustrated because he "knows" there should be another bird in his "aviary" so.......when I get "Daisy" there will be photos, of course, she may not even be hatched yet, but at least she has a name.


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## Avalon_Princess (Feb 13, 2008)

Just curious, how big's his cage? Interesting that the standard methods don't work, Echos going through the hormonal stage at the moment and we've find sticking him on the floor every time he does something 'bad' works a treat. But I'm guessing thats already been tried with Dooby.

Let us know how he goes!


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## birdieness (Jul 28, 2007)

Good luck with dooby. I hope this works out for you. Some little boy here is getting a much smaller cage aswell. Not that i want to give him one but he needs to leave his sister alone. Between trying to pluck her i've noticed he is back into the mating again. He tried yesterday but i snatched him up before he could. 

I'd be very worried about breeding when the time comes. It's not impossible for them to breed so you would have to watch it.


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## Plukie (Aug 26, 2007)

Avalon_Princess said:


> Just curious, how big's his cage? Interesting that the standard methods don't work, Echos going through the hormonal stage at the moment and we've find sticking him on the floor every time he does something 'bad' works a treat. But I'm guessing thats already been tried with Dooby.
> 
> Let us know how he goes!


http://www.parrotize.co.uk/acatalog/parrotize-bargains.html

Dooby's cage is the mini San Remo.


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## xxxSpikexxx (Jul 30, 2007)

Hopefully a friend will help. I would think that they would still try and mate when she is ready even without a breeding box. Would a male friend work just as well? 
I was with Spike when he was getting clipped and he let me give him scritches right after. 
His cage is a larger cage as well 46cm deep, 66cm high and 51cm wide with a playstand on top. Iam glad I did not get a bigger cage for him. I was thinking about it because I got my Linnie cage and it is huge  Spike is getting nippy now but he has not drawn blood just dented my skin. I make him step up until he does not try and bite a few times and than put him down. I hope he will not get worse and draw blood. Of course Spike thinks Iam his mate :blush: You are such a good Mom doing all you can do for Dooby


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## Rosie (Aug 27, 2007)

Well I never...I would never have thought it were to do with the cage. But it does make sense. Christine does know her stuff so I'm sure she can help you fix the problem. Glad to hear you are doing all you can for Dooby, and looking forward to hearing more news on the new arrival!


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## Sophia (Aug 11, 2007)

I really hope that this works out for you and Dooby, you will both be happier!  



Plukie said:


> Dooby's cage is the mini San Remo.


Earl's cage is this aswell, but I guess that with Little Bill in there aswell he is alright!


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

I disagree with her on the female won't mate till she is ready if Dooby's hormones are surging as they are and you go and put a very young baby female in with him, I would think it would be worse he would be going after her all the time to mate and if she doesn't respond as she probably won't know what to do at that age it will frustrate him even more, and tiels can and will lay eggs even without a nestbox, and the other thing about him associating you with the wing clipping because you were in the room I don't get that one most on here clip there tiels wings and there the same after as they were before maybe a little bit moody at first because you did it but they get over it quickly thats the first I heard of that one.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

I also disagree with the mating, because Pearl and Hop a long MATE constanstly and there are no nest boxes for them, they'll do it on the play stand, they'll do it on top of billy's cage , they'll do it in thier cage ( which also houses another tiel at night and budgies all day) they honestly don't give a darn who or what is around 

and Pearl laid a egg on the floor the other day! ( and I took a picture of it after i picked it up off the floor it was broken)


I don't know why the size of the cage matters - Roxy ( my lovebird) is bieng a pure ( i cant say what she is bieng because it's a bad word) no matter where she is, her cage is NOT huge ( she has a male friend) she'll bite just because she feels like it, the other day i was sitting here she was on the play tree with Pugsley ( her lovebird buddy), and Billy ( our quaker) The phone rang, I answered it, and she came flying at me and clamped onto my ear and would not let go - she bit me for no reason at all( i had blood running down my ear and into it), she'd been on the play gym for a good 30 mins playing and eating and enjoying her self and don't even attempt to put a hand on her cage or any toy around her cage if she's near it she'll come at you feathers fluffed, grumping the whole way and just latch on, if she's not any where near it, your still getting your skin torn off because she will come at you from where ever she is 

I hand fed her, she was such a sweet baby - She'll be 6 months old on the 19th of June 

her buddy Pugsley was parent raised and is a year old, still not hand tame and will run away from us, but when we do get him we can hold him and he doesn't even try to bite, we can even lay him on his back and rub his belly and he'll just lay there until we get to where we are going then he'll roll over and fly off (mainly to their cage)


But i hope you get something fiqured out soon. I know how you feel having a bird attack you for no reason (billy does it to me all the time he'll even chase me down to bite me then laughs about it )


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## Plukie (Aug 26, 2007)

That's a really good point Laura about the female and Dooby getting more frustrated. I'll mention that to her and see what she says. It's still not really etched in stone that I'll have another one, I can still say no. I think what she was getting at with the wing clipping was it was just another little thing to add to the list of "things that Dooby hates" that I'm involved in. lol.


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## Avalon_Princess (Feb 13, 2008)

Plukie said:


> http://www.parrotize.co.uk/acatalog/parrotize-bargains.html
> 
> Dooby's cage is the mini San Remo.



Scary thought, Echo's cage is larger then that, he aint getting a buddy though, Mum thinks Echo is demanding enough.


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

I've never heard of a large cage being the problem. :huh: I don't think it's reasonable to say that a bird will "expect" something they aren't aware of. Dooby doesn't know that there is lots of room in his cage and a girlfriend could be in there, i would doubt after a year of being a single bird that he even knows what a girlfriend is. As smart as birds are, and we know they could take over the world with those brains, i don't believe that a bird could knowingly plan and long for something they don't know. 

Having said that he's obviously being told by hormones that it's time to spread the Doobiness around and make some babies. :lol: So in a way he is longing for a mate, but i doubt he's aware that a girl cockatiel is what he's after. He probably wanted you or Darryl to be his mate a while ago and got super frustrated at the lack of sexy response, hence the hormonal terror you've got sitting in a cage (absolutely no fault of your own obviously).

Getting him a friend could go one of three ways as i see it. He could despise the thought of an intruder and get worse in his wild territory defense. He could realise instantly you've got him a mate and be happy as anything but then quickly become frustrated when the baby girl is confused at his advances. She will still be trying to scam food off humans and tiels, and would be totally baffled by this singing macho male trying to stand on her back. This could just make him worse as his advances are being rejected again. OR (this is the happy one) he could be satisfied to have a friend and calm down. 

The only experience i have with hormonal males is Bailee, and only recently. But i know that at the moment he is frustrated with Cookie because she won't mate with him OR scratch his head. This is upsetting for him and so he's plucking her. He was also grumpy with me over it until he rediscovered that i can give him kisses and cuddles and make all the nastiness in the world go away. :rofl: Possibly Dooby will remain grumpy until he gets what he wants - a little bit of action...if you know what i mean.

I don't want to sound so depressing, because personally i think Dooby would enjoy having a friend (male or female) around, but i don't really think it will make him less aggressive towards you. I think it will make him happier in a tiel way.  I would choose the gender of the baby based on what YOU want rather than what Dooby wants. If you don't want mating and eggs (because i think we all know Dooby does) then get a male, introduce them slowly and they will have just as much chance of getting along as if you get a female...although we can all hope that Dooby wouldn't expect too much action from a male...maybe just a little head scratch from time to time. 

I do think your breeder may have a point in Dooby's case about the wing clipping. I clip all my own birds wings and with the tiels especially, after i'm done attacking their wings I'M the one they come to for comfort and kisses. But certainly some birds could realise and remember the association and be wary. Hopefully having him clipped in a completely different room will help more this time.  Does your breeder have exceptionally tough gloves?


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## xxxSpikexxx (Jul 30, 2007)

I think if you want to get another tiel for Dooby I would get a male. Iam sure they would bond just aswell as male and female minus the eggs. And like Bea said make sure your breeder has some good gloves or a suit of armor.


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## Plukie (Aug 26, 2007)

So, having read all the responses from everybody, taken in the various points that you are all making.......my head is spinning!!! 

The only way I'm going to find out for sure how all this is going to turn out is to do it. I could be on here forever saying, what if this happens, what if that happens, but until I actually get him a friend nobody will _really_ know what is going to happen. 

Just one more thing though, if I was to get a male, I could end up with two hormonal, beaky biting machines!!! I just know I couldn't cope with that. I've done everything in my power for Dooby, this is really the last result, so I think it's going to be a female...see, I said _think_ it's going to be a female.......Ouch, my head hurts!!!


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

Plukie said:


> so I think it's going to be a female...see, I said _think_ it's going to be a female.......Ouch, my head hurts!!!


:lol: I bet you see a sweet little baby of unknown gender and just go AWWW and this will go out the window. Will the breeder choose you a baby based on the gender you want, or will you go and visit and find the one that just begs you to take it home?


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## Plukie (Aug 26, 2007)

She is having one DNA'd today Bea, I should know the result by the end of this week or early next week. Then if there is a little lady, I'm having her. They have just done their maiden flight, so it will be a couple of weeks yet. If there isn't a girl, then there is another clutch of eggs being sat on at the moment, so one of those might be a little girl.


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

I hope one is a lovely little girl that will be ready to join your flock in a couple of weeks time!


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## Plukie (Aug 26, 2007)

So do I now, I can't go on with this, should I, would I, could I, for much longer....it's driving me sane!! I've never been this serious for so long!!


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

I still can't believe your going to get Dooby a girlfriend, this from the woman that said NO WAY!!!! :lol: hopefully it all works out.


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## Plukie (Aug 26, 2007)

Don't remind me!!! I was adamant that he was going to be the one and only, but hey, I'll do anything to get my old Dooby back, the one that didn't skin me alive every time he comes out!! If this works, I'll be really pleased. If it doesn't.........I don't know, I don't want to think about that option, so it HAS to work.


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

Adamant thats the word I was looking for  lets be positive about it, it will work out :blink:...hehe just think you will have a cute little girl to love and if Dooby still doesn't like you maybe she will


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## Plukie (Aug 26, 2007)

I'm feeling positive about this.....Dooby _will_ love her (not too much yet though, lol)

I've just had the breeder on the phone, she has sent off the DNA today, so that should be back at the end of this week or early next week. The babies are only on two feeds a day now and she said that by the end of next weekend....that will be around 21/22nd of this month, I should be able to have a little girl....that's if of course it is a girl. I told her that I have concerns about putting a young female in with Dooby and was a little bit worried that he might take out his aggression on her, she said she really doesn't think that he will and that the little girl is flighted and will be able to get away from him. She won't stand any nonsense.......so, I'm going to keep them apart for a while and bond with Daisy.. (yep, I'm stuck on that name) and then I'll gradually introduce them. Daisy will just have to stay downstairs for now, I'll make sure that she has plenty of company and time with me and then, I'll introduce them cage next to cage for a day or two, then let them out together and see what happens...well, that's the plan at the moment. It could all change again within minutes!! Keep up!!


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## Sophia (Aug 11, 2007)

I really hope the bond between you and Daisy is successful when you get her!  I think you have made a good decision to bond with her first before she see's Dooby. Lets hope that she doesn't learn off Dooby when she see's him....but I don't think she will!  Maybe Dooby can win her over with his fire helmet!! :lol:


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## Plukie (Aug 26, 2007)

Yeah, a girl can't resist a man in uniform!!!


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

Plukie said:


> Yeah, a girl can't resist a man in uniform!!!


Says who!!!


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## Plukie (Aug 26, 2007)

I _*knew*_ there was something odd about you. Or is it me? Well, it's one of us anyway!!


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## Kfontan (Oct 10, 2007)

Plukie said:


> Don't remind me!!! I was adamant that he was going to be the one and only, but hey, I'll do anything to get my old Dooby back, the one that didn't skin me alive every time he comes out!! If this works, I'll be really pleased. If it doesn't.........I don't know, I don't want to think about that option, so it HAS to work.


So, Doobie changed at a point in his life?


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## Plukie (Aug 26, 2007)

Yes he did, at the six month moult and hormonal stage!! He went a bit wild and never got back to the cuddly Dooby that he was.


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

Plukie said:


> I _*knew*_ there was something odd about you. Or is it me? Well, it's one of us anyway!!


Could be both of us  :lol:


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## Plukie (Aug 26, 2007)

If it's both of us........there no hope left.


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## xxxSpikexxx (Jul 30, 2007)

Iam sure Dooby will be really happy with his new girl friend  Iam hoping that Spike does not change to much.


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## Ann (Mar 13, 2008)

Hey Plukie, I've been reading about your problems with Dooby and I can sympathize with you completely since my Prospero used to be very nasty, very much like your fellow. He was very much a people hater, and would almost die of fright if I tried to handle him...and the aggression...

Pro still isn't a 'people' bird but he's gotten much, much better over the twelve years that I've had him, you would hardly know that he's the same bird. He first bounded with a male budgie that my sister had and when he passed away, Pro went into this deep depression that lasted for at least 2 weeks and then he started eating normally again, but still very depressed. So I went out and bought a female 'teil for him and his attitude improved dramatically. Now I should also mention that Pro was never hand tamed, but the new girl was and he started learning about the benefits of a tame bird, so over time (few years) he became a little friendlier and all signs of aggression were gone, although he still didn’t really care for us humans. Then we made the mistake of giving them a nest box when she started laying eggs, well you should have seen the transformation. All the work went out the window and Pro became the worst kind of demon bird I ever saw. You couldn't even walk in the room where the cage/box was without falling under attack, I took the nest box away, and he improved slightly. Then after 5 years the unthinkable happened...one day she just vanished. After looking for her for 2 weeks and watching Pro go downhill fast, I went out and got a lovely hand tamed male 'tiel' (Wrenna) and they now live together more or less harmoniously. Wrenna's mushiness has rubbed off on Prospero and he is now better then he has ever been. Sometimes (when the moon is blue ) he will even sit on my shoulder and eat food out of my hand and make these heartwarming squeaky clucking sounds to me. 

I don't mean to imply that the two males always get along perfectly, they do have those beaking fights every now and then (usually instigated by Wrenna), but having two males live together has worked fairly well for me. And having a tame female bird also helped him dramatically too, but he still wasn’t very people friendly. 

Hope that I’ve been helpful, I really do think the two is better then one especially if the new friend is hand tame!


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## Plukie (Aug 26, 2007)

Thank you so much Ann. That has really helped a lot. I'm hoping that Dooby will see that it is much better to be friendly, he used to be but since becoming a "man" he's been a little devil. All respect to you for sticking with him over the years, I think I would have given up, although having said that.......I love him to bits. I just hope now that Dooby appreciates his little friend. It will be another couple of weeks until I get her and then quarantine, so in about six weeks, they should meet.


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## Plukie (Aug 26, 2007)

Now I've got another question..........when they eventually get together, should I take all Dooby's toys out and put different ones in? I didn't know if maybe he would be possessive over "his" toys.


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

I've never had a problem with toy possessiveness. Maybe if he has some that he's particularly obsessed with it would be wise to take them out, but otherwise it shouldn't matter.


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## Plukie (Aug 26, 2007)

Ok, thanks very much Bea. I'm just trying to eliminate any possible hostilities.


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

All my attempts to have a new playgym or new toys for introductions always go out the window, i get so excited about giving them new stuff that i do it before the introduction anyway. :lol:


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## Kfontan (Oct 10, 2007)

Approximately when are you to expect the new addition to the family?


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## Plukie (Aug 26, 2007)

Well, I'm waiting for the results of the DNA, that should be here tomorrow or Monday, then if it's a girl I'll have to wait a couple of weeks, she's on two feeds a day now and has only just had her first flight. So, I guess a couple of weeks time, the breeder suggested the weekend of the 21st/22nd


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## Kfontan (Oct 10, 2007)

I hope it works out.

Hae you thought of any names yet?


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