# Giardia?



## elinore (Jul 22, 2010)

Hello! I have a 7 year old female whiteface 'tiel named Maggie who means the world to me. For years she's picked feathers (since a few months after I got her, so since before she was a year old). I've done all the research I could but nothing seemed to really help and I finally just accepted that she's a little different and it's something that I was just going to have to deal with. Well, I've never really given up hope that I'd find an answer that could help her. Recently, I stumbled across a website that explained the side effects of giardia. From what I can tell, giardia often causes feather picking in cockatiels, especially on the shoulders, lower back, under the wings, and legs. This is exactly where Maggie picks. I've also read that the parasite interferes with nutritional absorption. Maggie has another condition that her (non-avian) vet believes is epilepsy or an "epileptic like condition" (this is a whole different issue that I am also trying desperately to understand and deal with). One thing the vet has remarked upon is her weight, or lack thereof. She eats like a little piggy- scrambled egg, a few almond slices, and cereal for breakfast, pellets and seeds till lunch, whatever veggie we give her, more pellets and seeds, then veggies and whatever we're eating for dinner, a little piece of millet for dessert, and more pellets and seeds before bed. She eats all the time and yet she's still underweight so I've been wondering if there's something wrong with her ability to absorb nutrients. 

Anyway, I've been wondering if she could have giardia. Unfortunately, we do not have any avian vets anywhere near to where we live in far Northern WI. Most of the vets around here do dogs and cats and that's it. The vet she visited about her seizures had just graduated and so was willing to look at her at least, but was far from a bird specialist. I've called all the local vets within an hour's drive, and most won't do any bird testing at all, and only one agreed to send away for a giardia test, but it would only be one test, done on old poop, and it would be very very expenisve. I wouldn't mind the expense but everything I've read says the testing is most effective on fresh poop and should be done for at least 3 consecutive days to maximize the chances of catching the parasite. I've read that very often giardia tests produce false-negatives and I have no idea if this is even something she has a real possibility of having. I found some other options online that have send-away tests for 3 days worth of samples that are only about $45 that appear much more thorough than the one the vet proposed, so I'm kind of leaning in that direction. 

So, long story short: does anyone have any helpful info or experiences with giardia? Does this sound like something that my bird could have or am I just being paranoid? I hate to "self-diagnose" like this, but without a real avian vet I don't know what else to do. Any suggestions?


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes giardia does affect nutrient absorption from the intestinal track. Since you are having seizures it could be that the calcium in the diet may not be properly absorbing into the system causing, hypocalcemia which can cause seizures.

Another cause for the plucking may be diet related. Some birds can have an allergic reaction to something in their diet...such as the synthetic vitamins in the pellets, or fortified seed, or vitamin supplements, or corn based foods. The allergic reaction causes an intense itching under the skin. The plucking pattern is similar to where the giardia plucking is at because these locations are where some of the major arteries in the body are close to the surface. Nutrients absorbed into the bloodstream from the intestines is how the sensitivity to these areas happen.

So you have 2 options.

1...Examine your diet, and do a *rule out* by eliminating a certain food for 7-10 days to see if she stops plucking. Do this with each type of food offered. Watch for the location of new pinfeathers to see if they are being plucked or left alone.

2...You can treat. Go to: http://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/ronivet-s.html Even though it says treatment for Canker it is *the BEST* medication I have found to effectively treat Giardia. What is nice is that it does not give a nasty taste to the water, which can be cause for the bird not drinking, and resulting in treatment failures. Since it does not affect the taste of the water she will not notice the meds.

Treatment should be repeated in 2-3 weeks. it will take a couple weeks to see results, especially if the plucking has been going on for a long time, and may have become a habit.


----------



## elinore (Jul 22, 2010)

Thanks for the reply! I have tried all the diet options I could over the years. We've switched it up time and time again to no effect. Currently she eats about 50/50 seed mix and crushed up pellets for her "all the time" food, then all sorts of supplementary snacks, like egg and veggies. I've also pretty much ruled out all environmental factors possible (like hairspray and shampoo and such). I can deal with her picking as long as it's not causing major health problems, but I just worry that the picking is a secondary symptom rather than a behavioral thing. 

Thanks for suggesting the Ronivet-S treatment! It looks like this one is safe to treat and doesn't have an dangerous side-effects, which is great. Would this be a good option, to treat without a real diagnosis first? I'm fine with treating first and figuring out if there was even a problem to begin with later as long as it's safe for my Maggie. This looks like a great option to me.


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes....it is safe to treat with. The Active ingredient *Ronidazole* also acts as an antibiotic, and can be effective against anaerobic bacteria which are bacteria that thrive without air., such as in the GI tract. This can also affect nutrient absorption.


----------



## elinore (Jul 22, 2010)

Fantastic. I think I'm going to try it.

If I can, I think I'm also going to call the local high school and ask to borrow one of their microscopes. I've been reading about what to look for in the stool and I figure it's worth a shot. I have a bit of experience with microscopes, and I think I know what I'm doing enough to spot the giardia if it's there. If I see something, great, if I don't I'm certainly not going to rule it out. 

Thank you SO much for the advice!!!


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes....looking at the poop (actually a fecal float) under the microscope would be a good idea. Make sure it is as fresh as possible, and 2-3 sequential droppings. The best droppings are the first ones of the day. Place some wax paper in the cage tray area for droppings collection.


----------



## Woodstock (Feb 25, 2011)

Excellent advice for future referencing!

As a side note: I'm in southern WI elinore. How are you coping w/our wonderful weather?? Our summer is going to be very short.....  This past winter was brutal.


----------



## elinore (Jul 22, 2010)

It's barely spring here in the North! My daffodils are just starting to really explode and it's so cold I had to wear a winter jacket and a hat today! 

Do you know of any good avian vets in Southern WI? I am trying to find a way to take my bird down to Madison next weekend when I go for an LSAT prep course (yuck) because I just really, really want her to see a vet who knows what a bird is (the vets up here wouldn't even spay my rabbit. They said rabbits are "too small" to spay). I was also thinking of contacting the Fine Feathered Friends Sanctuary, which is located near Madison, to see if they might have a good vet referral.


----------



## Woodstock (Feb 25, 2011)

elinore said:


> It's barely spring here in the North! My daffodils are just starting to really explode and it's so cold I had to wear a winter jacket and a hat today!
> 
> Do you know of any good avian vets in Southern WI? I am trying to find a way to take my bird down to Madison next weekend when I go for an LSAT prep course (yuck) because I just really, really want her to see a vet who knows what a bird is (the vets up here wouldn't even spay my rabbit. They said rabbits are "too small" to spay). I was also thinking of contacting the Fine Feathered Friends Sanctuary, which is located near Madison, to see if they might have a good vet referral.


Fine Feathered Friends Sanctuary in Edgerton, WI is where I got Woodstock from. They are wonderful people! It's a ways outside of Madison (where I used to live) before I moved to Milwaukee. I have never had the need to take Woodstock to an avian vet, but I did locate one in case I ever did. 

I've never met this vet, but he comes highly recommended. His name is:

*Dr. Tom Truesdell, DVM
4214 Milwaukee St.
Madison, WI
(608) 244-2555*

He does have a website for further info and I believe there are directions to his office also on the site.

Good luck on your LSAT! Where do you take it? I moved to Milwaukee as I lost my job in MadCity and thought it would be easier in the big city to find work.... silly me! Still looking.  It's brutal out there trying to find work. I had every intention to go back to school for dental, but the health programs are one to two year wait to get into I found out after attending the healthcare program. So many people going back to school the asst. dean told me. They've never seen anything like it she said. I'm almost at retirement so I want a good "fit". I'm thinking about getting back into the floral design work I did years ago. I don't know yet.....

Anyway, let me know if I can be of further assistance to you.


----------



## elinore (Jul 22, 2010)

Thank you so much for the info! I'll definitely look into it. I just don't like having a less than perfectly healthy little birdie so I'm really anxious to get her in to someone who can help her. 

I'll be taking the LSAT in October in Madison. Hopefully I'll be able to go to Law School then in Madtown. I just love going to school there. It really is the perfect college town!


----------



## ahall83 (Mar 14, 2011)

there is a vet in mosinee Robert Pope, DVM 1019 Western Ave. Mosinee, WI 54455 715 693-6575


----------



## elinore (Jul 22, 2010)

Thanks!!! Mosinee is a whole lot closer to me than Madison!


----------



## ahall83 (Mar 14, 2011)

you are welcome. i found that looking for a a.v. for when i go to boulder junction on vaca this july


----------



## Woodstock (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh yeah, Madison is a cool city w/ a lot of diversity and friendly people. I miss it so much!!! I hope I can move back there some day. The rent is expensive unless a person lives down by the university. At my age though I like my peace and quiet.


----------



## Woodstock (Feb 25, 2011)

ahall83 said:


> you are welcome. i found that looking for a a.v. for when i go to boulder junction on vaca this july


ahall, there is an excellent meat market in Boulder if it's still in business, that is. Used to go to a cottage on Twin Lakes outside of Manitowish Waters. Small world, hey?


----------



## elinore (Jul 22, 2010)

Well, I called the Truesdell Animal Hospital and unfortunately they did not have any openings for this Saturday (the only day I can get down to Madison) and couldn't see her. I also tried the UW Vet Hospital, and while the lady I talked to was VERY interested in seeing Maggie and her cocktail of issues (epilepsy, odd seizures, breathing strangeness, lack of weight gain in spite of constant eating, misadventure outside years ago, and now her beak and nails being slightly overgrown because of lessened activity and needing to be trimmed), she said that even if she came in special on Saturday to the emergency clinic, there wouldn't be enough people there to do real investigative work (blood tests, poop tests, xrays, etc). So, currently I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to get Maggie down there on a week day in the very near future for some serious testing (including for giardia). Thanks to everyone for all the helpful suggestions! One way or another, I am going to get my little birdie better


----------



## ahall83 (Mar 14, 2011)

did you try and call that one i found in mosinee?


----------



## elinore (Jul 22, 2010)

Turns out I called him about a year ago, when she first started having seizures and he told me that he's not entirely comfortable treating her because of her size and the nature of her problems, which I can understand and appreciate even though it's so frustrating to find someone willing to help. I guess I am just going to have to take a weekday road trip down to the UW Vet Hospital. I spoke with one of their bird people on the phone for almost an hour yesterday, and she was SO helpful. She really wants to treat Maggie, and I'm feeling very encouraged that someone who frequently treats birds really cares and is genuinely interested and concerned.


----------

