# Mutations



## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Hello guys !
I’m very happy and excited seeing my cockatiels bred for the first time and I’m very curious what kind of colour / breed will I be getting ? I’m hoping to get a white face as it’s rare in my country 😄. Any experts can guide me 🙏🏻 🙏🏻. Lutino is a hen and whiteface is a cock


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

If they have no splits, you will only get normal greys split to whiteface, and all males will be split to lutino. The only way to get whitefaces is if the mom is split to whiteface. An easy way to tell is when the eggs hatch. If they are white fuzzed chicks, you have whitefaces; if they are yellow fuzzed chicks, you don't have whitefaces. If the father is split to lutino and the mother is split to whiteface, you could possibly get whiteface Lutinos which are very neat looking!


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> If they have no splits, you will only get normal greys split to whiteface, and all males will be split to lutino. The only way to get whitefaces is if the mom is split to whiteface. An easy way to tell is when the eggs hatch. If they are white fuzzed chicks, you have whitefaces; if they are yellow fuzzed chicks, you don't have whitefaces. If the father is split to lutino and the mother is split to whiteface, you could possibly get whiteface Lutinos which are very neat looking!


I see I see !! Now I understand , thank you so much for your guidance 😍😍


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Pooh said:


> I see I see !! Now I understand , thank you so much for your guidance 😍😍


Yeah, no problem! 😊. You should definitely share pictures of the chicks when they hatch, and I could help determine what they are if you'd like.


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> Yeah, no problem! 😊. You should definitely share pictures of the chicks when they hatch, and I could help determine what they are if you'd like.


Okay I’ll keep you posted ! Another question is , when will they start incubating the eggs ? The hen started to sit on her egg since the very first day which was last Tuesday and tomorrow is officially a week. Is sitting on the eggs considered as incubating ? As I read from google it says that they’ll start incubating once there’s a clutch of eggs. From the very first day two of the birds just stayed inside the nest box and taking turns sitting on the eggs .


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Thanks! They'll usually start incubating their eggs when there are two to three in the box. Mine have eggs right now, and they've been sitting on their eggs since the first one was laid just like yours. I would just wait and see how soon the eggs hatch. If they hatch sooner than expected, then they probably started incubating right away.


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Last night I was too excited and went to candle their eggs 😂. One out of three I saw there’s a red vein ! It means the egg started to develop 🥰🥰.


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Yay! That's so exciting! Candling can be one of the best parts!


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> Yay! That's so exciting! Candling can be one of the best parts!


Couldn’t agree more ! The excitement 😂!! Short update 
There’s 8 eggs total laid by 2 hens and there’s 6 fertile eggs 😍😍.


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Pooh said:


> Couldn’t agree more ! The excitement 😂!! Short update
> There’s 8 eggs total laid by 2 hens and there’s 6 fertile eggs 😍😍.











he used to be playful !! Now he’s soooo aggressive 😂 😂.








mummy and daddy doing their job ! So cute 😍


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Yes, they become quite aggressive sometimes when they are nesting. They can normally be the sweetest birds, but once they are nesting, boy, they switch into little monsters 😆


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## JoceKay (10 mo ago)

My pair have had their first clutch. The male is way noisier than he ever was. He will sit in a room away from her and screech non stop. I don't know if he is calling to his Mrs or his chicks? (They are 10 days old.) Or just being a brat? Any advice?


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

JoceKay said:


> My pair have had their first clutch. The male is way noisier than he ever was. He will sit in a room away from her and screech non stop. I don't know if he is calling to his Mrs or his chicks? (They are 10 days old.) Or just being a brat? Any advice?


Yes ! Well it does happen sometimes , I’m not an experienced breeder but I could tell that when the male screeched non stop it means that he couldn’t find or see where’s the female cockatiel 😂.


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> Yes, they become quite aggressive sometimes when they are nesting. They can normally be the sweetest birds, but once they are nesting, boy, they switch into little monsters 😆


hey !! Short update , last night I got back home from work about 11 p.m. and started candling all the eggs and What I found was there’s an egg with noises and chirping sound 😍😍.


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> Yes, they become quite aggressive sometimes when they are nesting. They can normally be the sweetest birds, but once they are nesting, boy, they switch into little monsters 😆










First eggs hatched after 19 days !! It’s a lutino 😂


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Yay, that's so exciting! Congratulations! Since you have a lutino, that means that the father is split to lutino. Now you just have to wait and see if you get any whitefaces! 😁


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> Yay, that's so exciting! Congratulations! Since you have a lutino, that means that the father is split to lutino. Now you just have to wait and see if you get any whitefaces! 😁


Yes not that I’m choosy but I really wanted to get a white face hehehe ,
Is it normal for paired of cockatiel to stay out of nest box more than 3-4 hours ? They incubated the eggs more than 10 days and suddenly they stayed outside of nest box more than 3 to 4 hours. Is there anything I should be worried about ? Will this behavior affects the incubated eggs ?


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Are both of them out at the same time? If so, the eggs might chill. Do you know why they are spending more time out of the box? You can try candling the eggs again and see if there is any difference in them. I know that eggs can last some time without direct warmth on them, but I don't know how long before they get cold.


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> Are both of them out at the same time? If so, the eggs might chill. Do you know why they are spending more time out of the box? You can try candling the eggs again and see if there is any difference in them. I know that eggs can last some time without direct warmth on them, but I don't know how long before they get cold.


Yes they stayed out at the same time , it’s their first clutch so they might lack of experience , what I did was I transferred all the eggs to Lutino and WF. When I touched the eggs , they’re cold. I candled them , I’m not sure if it’s moving but hopefully it still does .. Lutino and WF did a great job by incubating them immediately.. by the way the second egg hatched ! It’s Lutino 🤣. I left some dummy eggs and hoped they’ll be back but sadly they didn’t.. I guess that’s should be it


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Awww, that’s too bad that they abandoned their eggs, but at least you have another pair. Now you just have to wait and see if those eggs will hatch with them. Did you say that these eggs were from your other pair that isn’t whiteface?


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> Awww, that’s too bad that they abandoned their eggs, but at least you have another pair. Now you just have to wait and see if those eggs will hatch with them. Did you say that these eggs were from your other pair that isn’t whiteface?


Yes it’s from paired cinnamon grey.. 4 eggs from cinnamon grey and 4 eggs from WF / Lutino 
Great news I saw there’s a pipping .. might able to see The third baby by tomorrow evening !!! 🥰🥰


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

That means you still might be able to get some whitefaces if your whiteface/lutino pair’s eggs haven’t hatched yet. For your other pair, that means the father is split to lutino, and all lutinos from that pair will be females.


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> Awww, that’s too bad that they abandoned their eggs, but at least you have another pair. Now you just have to wait and see if those eggs will hatch with them. Did you say that these eggs were from your other pair that isn’t whiteface?


Yes some of these eggs were from cinnamon grey.. if I found some poop stains on the egg what should I do ? Should I wipe it off or let it be ? Expecting third baby any moment now ! Heard some cracking noises… I just found out one of eggs DIS ? i candling it on bottom there’s air sack and top there’s a blood with ring shaped.. and it started to get darker like blacker . Doesn’t it means it is dead ?


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Okay, so if your whiteface/lutino pair have Lutinos, then the father is split for lutino, and they could be males or females. If your cinnamon/grey pair have Lutinos, then the father is split for lutino, and they will all be females. You can leave the poop stains on the egg; it should be fine as long as it isn't caked in it. YAY!!! That's so exciting! You'll have to let me know what color it is! Yes, when it starts getting black or blue looking on the outside, then that means that it most likely died. If you're positive it is dead, I would remove it so it doesn't affect any of the other eggs.


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

E


Misstiel said:


> Okay, so if your whiteface/lutino pair have Lutinos, then the father is split for lutino, and they could be males or females. If your cinnamon/grey pair have Lutinos, then the father is split for lutino, and they will all be females. You can leave the poop stains on the egg; it should be fine as long as it isn't caked in it. YAY!!! That's so exciting! You'll have to let me know what color it is! Yes, when it starts getting black or blue looking on the outside, then that means that it most likely died. If you're positive it is dead, I would remove it so it doesn't affect any of the other eggs.


So far 3 babies lutino ! None of the cinnamon / grey pair’s eggs have survived , there’s still 2 more eggs inside the nest box , daddy bird still incubating it , I’ll wait for a week again if none of them hatch I’ll dispose it immediately , 
Question here 
If all the baby birds hatched can I remove them from the nest box and place another box inside the cage ?


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Yay; that's so exciting! Are all the Lutinos from the whiteface/lutino pair? Awww 😕. That's too bad that the other eggs didn't make it. It might have been the cold that got to them. Hopefully, the other two make it still! Before you dispose of them if they don't hatch after a week, I would suggest candling them one more time just to make sure they aren't just late in hatching. What do you mean by removing the the box? Are you saying you want to take the original nesting box out and put in a new nesting box or just a different kind of box?


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> Yay; that's so exciting! Are all the Lutinos from the whiteface/lutino pair? Awww 😕. That's too bad that the other eggs didn't make it. It might have been the cold that got to them. Hopefully, the other two make it still! Before you dispose of them if they don't hatch after a week, I would suggest candling them one more time just to make sure they aren't just late in hatching. What do you mean by removing the the box? Are you saying you want to take the original nesting box out and put in a new nesting box or just a different kind of box?


Yes all the baby Lutinos come from whiteface/Lutino pair ! Last night , I candled some of the eggs , Didn’t saw any movements so I’m giving them another week to see if there’s any results. Yes I’m thinking of removing the nest box and place them into another box like an open air box so it’s easy for me to clean and monitor the babies.. it is safe to do that ?


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Great news I saw pipping on the fourth egg !!! Please give me a whiteface !! 🤣🤣


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Pooh said:


> Yes all the baby Lutinos come from whiteface/Lutino pair ! Last night , I candled some of the eggs , Didn’t saw any movements so I’m giving them another week to see if there’s any results. Yes I’m thinking of removing the nest box and place them into another box like an open air box so it’s easy for me to clean and monitor the babies.. it is safe to do that ?


Then that means that the father is split for lutino. The chicks might get cold, and the parents might be scared if there’s no top. If you’re able to, I’d leave them in the original box until they are a little older.


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Pooh said:


> Great news I saw pipping on the fourth egg !!! Please give me a whiteface !! 🤣🤣


Which pair is this egg from?


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> Which pair is this egg from?


From WF / Lutino , non of the cinnamon grey paired’s egg survived 😢.


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Pooh said:


> From WF / Lutino , non of the cinnamon grey paired’s egg survived 😢.


Awww, that's too bad! Was this their first clutch? I can't remember if you told me or not already but if it was, then they might have been too inexperienced. Hopefully their second clutch will be better if you breed them again! Has the egg hatched yet?


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> Then that means that the father is split for lutino. The chicks might get cold, and the parents might be scared if there’s no top. If you’re able to, I’d leave them in the original box until they are a little older.











4 baby lutinos nooooooo not a single WF 😭
Yeap it’s their first clutch so they might lack of experience ! I candled their eggs and the veins turned black. All of the eggs of WF / Lutino successfully hatched successfully ! Thanks god ! 🙏🏻🙏🏻


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Pooh said:


> View attachment 95125
> 
> 4 baby lutinos nooooooo not a single WF 😭


It's usually best to wait until after a second clutch to determine for sure if there are any hidden splits, but being as you got four Lutinos in this clutch, your female probably isn't split to whiteface, then. Either way, that is very neat! I've never had Lutino chicks before so they look very different from mine.


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> It's usually best to wait until after a second clutch to determine for sure if there are any hidden splits, but being as you got four Lutinos in this clutch, your female probably isn't split to whiteface, then. Either way, that is very neat! I've never had Lutino chicks before so they look very different from mine.


Oh no bad news the youngest birdie died 😭. I think got stepped by another birds 😭 😭


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Oh, no!!!! 😥 That is very sad news! How are the other three doing?


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> Oh, no!!!! 😥 That is very sad news! How are the other three doing?


1 baby just opened its eyes , another should be a day or two , the third one got a minor injuries but it’s very very small just a size of a dot (.) but the parents does not feed the youngest instead the old ones.


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Yay, that's so exciting when their eyes open! Since it was their first time, they might have gotten overwhelmed by the amount of chicks that they decided to only feed the oldest ones. Unfortunately that happens 😕


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

so sad to watch , daddy cockatiel ripping apart the youngest baby … it’s still alive but without its hands and legs , it’s so sad to dispose this but if I leave it inside the nest box I guess it’ll be far more worse


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Ugh what should I do !?


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

I thought you said the youngest already died? Is this the second youngest? I had two cockatiels that I paired up a while back, thinking they would be great. They both did an excellent job in incubating their eggs and taking care of them but as soon as the egg hatched, the dad ate the wing tips and the toes off the chick. It was horrible! It could be that the male is too young or too inexperienced. Some males are just not great parents and never will be. I would suggest taking the male out and leaving the other two chicks with the mother if she can handle them. How old are they? If they are old enough, you could always try hand feeding?


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> I thought you said the youngest already died? Is this the second youngest? I had two cockatiels that I paired up a while back, thinking they would be great. They both did an excellent job in incubating their eggs and taking care of them but as soon as the egg hatched, the dad ate the wing tips and the toes off the chick. It was horrible! It could be that the male is too young or too inexperienced. Some males are just not great parents and never will be. I would suggest taking the male out and leaving the other two chicks with the mother if she can handle them. How old are they? If they are old enough, you could always try hand feeding?


The first one hatched on 26 of March and the second one hatched on 28 of March. Mummy and daddy just fed this two instead of the second youngest. I checked if there’s anything wrong with chicks , so far nothing had happened , filled crops so I assumed there’s nothing wrong with these 2 . So in the future should I continue to breed this pair or ?


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

First born and second born


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

You could try again but wait a while before you let them again. Do you know how old he is? Was there something wrong with the chick that you know of? Are the parents very bonded to each other? Some parents just aren’t good parents while others just need a new mate.


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> You could try again but wait a while before you let them again. Do you know how old he is? Was there something wrong with the chick that you know of? Are the parents very bonded to each other? Some parents just aren’t good parents while others just need a new mate.


Yes I’ll try it again after 6 months , I’ll prepare an incubator , syringe and feeding tip. I guess around 16-18 weeks old now , when I got him from a breeder , she told me that he’s about 15-16 months , I kept him about 3-4 months so i guess around 20 months ? Yes ! They’re bonded pretty well , preening each other most of time and when mummy bird laid her first egg he spent most of his time inside the nestbox with mummy bird.. every single time he entered the nest box he would try and snatch the eggs away from mummy bird and incubates them. I think he got a great and excellent parenting skills ! most of the time he’ll feed the 2 baby cockatiels instead of mummy bird and whenever I checked their crops it’s 100% filled. Maybe the daddy cockatiel felt that the baby chick was unhealthy or could he be overwhelmed ?


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

He could have been overwhelmed or the chick could have been unhealthy. For reasons I don't know, the parents can somehow sense when a chick is unhealthy and will usually abandon it. So it could be that as well, and since he's taking great care in the other two, he must be a good parent, then. I would't worry too much. When they have another clutch, it's good that you will have everything ready if you need to pull them so it should be fine. It will also be their second clutch then which will make a difference as well.


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Let’s hope for the best for them ! Today I saw something unusual , just saw my baby cockatiel’s crop turned into black .. is there anything I should worried about ? I never handfed them , only mami and daddy cockatiels do the feeding


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Would you be able to get a picture of the chick's crop?


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> Would you be able to get a picture of the chick's crop?











one just passed away, last night I checked the nestbox they were fine … but this afternoon I went to check again , passed away 😭. There’s still discharge coming out from the beak. There’s still some food inside crops.. not sure if it’s the weather because it’s been raining heavily these few weeks. 
back to the question
I fed the parents fresh vegetables every single day , so I guess that’s why the baby’s crops were slightly darkish ?


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Awwww, I'm so sorry! That's really sad news! The crop might not have drained properly, but I wouldn't stress too much. It can happen to anyone, unfortunately!  Yes, the vegetables probably made the crop slightly darker, but to me, that crop looks normal so who knows.


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> Awwww, I'm so sorry! That's really sad news! The crop might not have drained properly, but I wouldn't stress too much. It can happen to anyone, unfortunately!  Yes, the vegetables probably made the crop slightly darker, but to me, that crop looks normal so who knows.


Ya I did called an expert and asked , she says might be the cold weather made the bird unable to digest all the food inside the crops . That’s why there’s a lot discharge coming out from the mouth. Because baby birds require warm to digest all the food.. that’s what I heard.. I shouldn’t breed . 3 baby cockatiels lost their life. Sigh


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Yes, they do need warmth to digest their food so it could be the weather, but it also couldn't. Were the parents sitting with the chicks? If so, then they would have already been warm. I think there's a big difference in those who breed, not caring about what happens, and those who are willing to learn from their mistakes. It's sad and very unfortunate when we lose chicks, but sometimes there is nothing you could have done. I just recently lost two chicks this round. The youngest might have had some issue with its legs because it wouldn't stand, and the parents rejected it. The oldest died just last week due to dehydration and sour crop, I think. I took care of it the best I could, making sure the parents had enough water and adding what needed to be added in there. I gave them proper food, but the chick might have already been too sick. If you tried your best and are willing to learn, I wouldn't give up. Talk with breeders if you can, learn from them, look things up, be prepared, and never ever blame yourself for what happened. There was nothing you could have done! Hopefully, you can have another clutch soon. This might have just been a bad batch just like mine.


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## Pooh (May 26, 2021)

Misstiel said:


> Yes, they do need warmth to digest their food so it could be the weather, but it also couldn't. Were the parents sitting with the chicks? If so, then they would have already been warm. I think there's a big difference in those who breed, not caring about what happens, and those who are willing to learn from their mistakes. It's sad and very unfortunate when we lose chicks, but sometimes there is nothing you could have done. I just recently lost two chicks this round. The youngest might have had some issue with its legs because it wouldn't stand, and the parents rejected it. The oldest died just last week due to dehydration and sour crop, I think. I took care of it the best I could, making sure the parents had enough water and adding what needed to be added in there. I gave them proper food, but the chick might have already been too sick. If you tried your best and are willing to learn, I wouldn't give up. Talk with breeders if you can, learn from them, look things up, be prepared, and never ever blame yourself for what happened. There was nothing you could have done! Hopefully, you can have another clutch soon. This might have just been a bad batch just like mine.


The parents weren’t sitting with the chicks anymore I guess because they were big enough now ? I only see parents feeding the baby only. After feeding both parents would get out from the nestbox. I’m very thankful and grateful that you’d been helping me these past weeks and guiding me. Thanks 🙏🏻. Have to prepare an incubator for next clutch !


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## Misstiel (Jun 10, 2021)

Yeah, no problem! If you ever have any more questions, please feel free to ask me, and if I can’t help you, I’ll check with any of my breeder friends and see what they think. 🥰


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