# My cockatiel has possible blood in his droppings



## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Hey all,

I have been meaning to sign up since i got my first cockatiel in April but today is the day.

I am so sorry that it is an illness that made me go forward and start a thread.

One of my cockatiels, Jerry, (possibly having her first moult. I never trust pet stores here) has lost 9 grams in 3 days. She was 117 on Tuesday and now she is 109. I also noticed that I can feel her chest bone. Even though it is not sticking out like my poor budgie who died of avian gastric yeast, the fact that I can feel it while I cannot feel my other and lighter (97 gr) cockatiel Skye's chest bone is worrying me.

Today I put fresh new white paper towel under them in the cage to see how her droppings would be like, because she also had very dark green and sticky (also little like budgie droppings) droppings yesterday. 

I found one of them with a bit of brownish red substance in it.

Because our vet is in another city and I cant drive, I called her and sent her pictures of the droppings. I will try and manage a way to take Jerry there. In the meantime, I would like to make some research and open my mind to any possibility.

We do not have certified avian vets here, so I take them to another one who is much more informed about exotic animals than other vets. 

The vet just called and we talked about three possible things: internal parasites, heavy metal poisoning, avian gastric yeast.

The reason we also focus on AGY is because i lost one budgie 5 days ago. That also brings me to the reason why I want to read about possible diseases. Because I knew my budgie was sick and I kept taking him to the vet. They ran some tests but they did not check him for megabacteria and then it was already impossible to not diagnose him with agy (which is when it is too late) I went nuts over it. 

Anyway, she told me to start on flucanozole, an anti-parasite medication and an antibiotic. I should monitor her droppings to see if they have any effect. 

I think i am going nuts over this ambiguity.

Does anybody have any advice on what I should ask the vet and what tests should be run to determine what is wrong? I don't want to lose another bird to lack of proper action!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Can you post some pictures of the droppings? That can tell us a lot in terms of potential problems. Also take a fresh dropping and smear it on white paper -- post a picture of the smear as well. 

What symptoms did your budgie have, and how much contact did the budgie have with your tiel? What does their diet consist of, and have there been any recent changes? It does sound like AGY may be a prime suspect, although it is by no means the only possibility. 

Tests I'd want would be gram stains and fecal culture, as well as a complete blood count. If heavy metal poisoning is a top candidate, then you'd want x rays as well. Is there anything in the bird's environment that is rusty, or made of a dangerous metal? If not I'd probably start by ruling out infection first, but do keep in mind that I am not a vet and this is only my opinion.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

hey, thanks for the reply. I am posting the two pictures I took. When I was checking her droppings, it looked like the urate was yellow, but now that I look at the pictures, it looks more like small amount of blood is staining it. I'm worried sick.

Apparently I cannot post the higher resolution versions (too much kbs). I will open a photobucket account to post them and add the links.

I will wait for some fresh dropping to smear too. I did it a couple of hours ago, though. I looked for undigested food but there was none.

He eats cockatiel seed mix, sprouted seeds, purslane, carrots, apple. Though lately he has eaten only seeds and purslane because I was busy with the sick budgie. 

He did not have direct contact with the sick budgie but the sick budgie's (Osman) brother (GJ) was with him all the way till the end and I returned the brother back home, it is possible that Jerry had some indirect contact with GJ. Gj is on precautionary treatment for agy and the other birds, too. 

Heavy metal poisoning is also possible because this house is old. While the paint is new, i have no idea if it has lead in it. (I live in Turkey) I keep the birds away from eating paint but 15 birds are not easy to keep track of at all times 

I will check the post and post another pic soon. There was only one dropping with very obvious blood in it do far.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

these are the two photos I took a couple of hours ago. There is no new dropping yet. I just changed the paper towel at the bottom of the cage. I'll see what the new ones show.

My budgie that died had been sick since I got him. I bought him and his brother when he was around 5 weeks old. They both had french moult but while Osman had his wings and tail feathers (only the long tail feather kept breaking), his brother GJ still doesnt have tail and wing feathers. I hope they grow back after he becomes 6-7 months old.

Osman had a bit of runny poop since he first came to the house and I took him to two different vets. His droppings used to stick to his feathers. After some baytril, it stopped sticking but the feathers around the vent always had a bit of green stain.

One and a half months ago, he became less active and his droppings didnt only leave a stain, they also started sticking to his feathers. The urate was also greenish yellowish and he was sleeping a lot. So I took him to the vet. They took a swab from droppings and the results was clean. I dont know how much could be determined in one day, though. They said it is very unlikely that a 3-3.5 month old bird would have liver damage. So they gave antibiotics and they added an anti-protozoa medication the next day. I had to go away for 9 days, so my mum gave his medications and liquid amino acid every day. His brother GJ who was also his best friend was with him in his cage all the time because we did not want to leave Osman alone in his cage. Also GJ was taking the medications in case he got sick. 

After those 9 days, I came to find a bird infested with mites and suffering from a flakey, overgrown beak. It was so bad that one of his nostrils was blocked but luckily GJ cleaned it in no time.

Apparently he was eating a lot (I called three times a day to ask about him and he was eating a lot) but he had lost so much weight that his chest bone was so sharp. I took him to the vet that day again and they took him in. They said he had agy. They injected vitamins and dextose, isotonic and carried on with it for 4 days until he died. They first started on nystatin but changed it to flucanozole the second day. I was about to order megabac - s from australia when they called and said he wasnt doing well any more (up to that point he was still happily playing with GJ, even though he had no muscle to keep him standing)
he died after half an hour in the ICU.

I am still very angry over a lack of diagnosis. I dont want the same happening to Jerry.

Except for the time he was in the vet, they were in the same room, in seperate cages all the time but when they were out of the cages to play and fly, it is possible they had contact. I believe Osman had his disease all his life.

As for the metal poisoning.. My apartment is around 20-30 years old. the owner did not take good care of it because he stopped living in it after a while. Everything in the house is falling apart. It has too many cavities and improper places. I avoid using too much furniture and it makes it easier to follow where the birds are. I also made wooden toys for them and put it up high so they spend time on it most of the time. But It is possible they find something to chew on that might be dangerous.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I do think that sounds like AGY, although those symptoms could be any number of things, so I don't want you to disregard other possibilities just because of my suggestion. I would go forward with the tests I suggested in my original post. From the pics of those droppings, I think it is likely that he has bleeding in his GI tract. The texture of both the feces and the urates is off, too. Unfortunately AGY can be very hard to diagnose, because it is possible for the bird to have the organism in the GI tract, but not excrete it. 

This thread may have helpful info for you: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27974&highlight=avian+gastric+yeast


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Finally a new dropping.. First I took photo of it the way it was (I just cut the paper from the rest.) The quality is not good because my camera does not take good photos in night time. 
















and the smeared version:









For now all I see in Jerry is weight loss and unusual droppings. I started him on flucanozole as well.


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## Dreamcatchers (Apr 17, 2011)

I am sorry to hear about your bird's illness. Unfortunately - French moult- another name for Budgerigar Fledgling Disease- is a member of the papovavirus family, a Polyomavirus. It is contagious and could have spread to your cockatiel easily even without direct contact. I would suspect that before I suspected metal poison if you already had a bird with that diagnosis.

Taken from Avian Biotech Website.
This pathogen is considered one of the most significant threats to cage birds around the world. This highly infectious disease effects most if not all parrot species. Polyoma seems to be most problematic among neonates (young birds) between the ages 14-56 days. Young birds often die, while adult birds can develop a certain level of immunity. Polyoma is believed to have an incubation period of approximately two weeks or less.

Transmission: The disease can spread from one bird to another via feather dust, feces, aerosols and parental feeding of chicks; direct contact or contact with infected environments (incubators, nest boxes)..

Birds that are infected but do not have obvious signs of infection are often responsible for spreading the virus to an aviary or bird store.

Carrier state maybe possible in adult birds.

Symptoms: Swollen abdomen, depression, loss of appetite, anorexia, weight loss, delayed crop emptying, regurgitation, diarrhea, dehydration, feather abnormalities hemorrhages under the skin, dyspnea, polyuria, ataxia, tremors, paralysis, acute death.

Some birds die without any clinical symptoms. Adult birds may die of secondary infection from bacterial, viral, fungal or parasitic pathogen.
Prevention: 

Isolate all birds shedding the disease. Disinfect all contaminated surfaces with an oxidizer such as chlorine bleach (Polyoma virus is resistant to many disinfectants).
*Alcohol does not work as it is not an oxidizer.

I would at the very least have the bird tested as well as have an environmental swab done. A whole blood sample AND a vent swab should be done on the bird itself. If you get a positive, you need to isolate the bird and retest in 4 to 6 weeks. If you get a negative at that time, do a retest 4 to 6 weeks after that just to be sure. 

There is no known cure for the disease unfortunately.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Hello Dreamcatchers,

Yes I have ( or had before Osman died) 4 budgies who has french moult. The first two of them, PJ and Julie, I got without knowing they had the disease. They were very young and I did not suspect it. Julie had full wings and tail feathers. Her first moult was quite heavy and I supported both their system with antibiotics against possible secondary infections. I also gave them extra vitamin and minerals, as well as amino acids. They managed to get past the 6-7 month mark and now PJ has full wings and tail. Julie has a bit of a problem with her long tail feathers but the rest are there.
Osman couldnt make it past 4.5 months. I guess french moult made him weak so he had agy.
Osman's brother GJ is like PJ. No wing and tail, but very strong. I hope the support works for him, too.

I don't know if the french moult has any affect on the rest of the birds. The info on this issue is a bit uncertain. Every bird except for two budgies I got latest are older than the french moult ones and they did not have contact with them until they were old enough.

The vets also told me it is possible that it passes to adult birds, too. But I don't know how much it would affect them.

Jerry was allegedly 6 months old when I got her. (I can never be sure if the store owner knows it, at all. I cant tell the difference with cockatiels so I have to take their word on the age)
It's been two months since I got her. She was in quarantine for a very short time, though. Then she was with the other birds.

French moult is a terrible problem here. Most breeders are very uneducated and they don^t care. They sell the birds to unsuspecting people as babies. And the owners of those birds dont know why they cant fly, what they should do. Most of the time they get stepped on or they die due to lack of extra support.

I suspect all my birds carry the virus. When I realized how bad the situation was, I decided to just keep the young birds away from the others until they were safe, age-wise

I will ask the vet to see if it is possible to get these tests done. I know they get vent swab, that's what they did with Osman. I know they also check for parasites, too. But the rest, I hope they do. I know there is no such service for bird owners in my hometown.

I'm sorry I go on and on like this. I am very frustrated and sad about how less of a value my feathered friends to so many so called experts that there is not even a way to get a test done.


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## Dreamcatchers (Apr 17, 2011)

I am so sorry to hear that the disease is such an issue. That's so horrible. Where are you located? 

I do want to point out that cockatiels can catch it and although it occurs in younger birds usually, it can occur in birds of any age. Older birds can become infected and manifest the disease not just carry it.

Again, I am so very sorry that you have to go through this and that help is not more readily available.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

I am in Turkey. 
I will see if any friend who can drive is available to drive me and Jerry to Izmir for tests. The public transportation is a no-no, since they don't let the birds in. They have to go in the baggage area and no way in **** I am putting my bird there let alone for 4 hours.
I hope we can find out what she has. 
Thank you for the info and support. I really appreciate it.


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## Dreamcatchers (Apr 17, 2011)

I will keep hoping for the best for you! Keep us posted.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

I just sent an email to the vet. I said that I want them to set a plan to be able to diagnose her properly, instead of giving a bunch of medications and hoping one would stick. I said it didnt work in Osman's case and it will only waste Jerry's time. I wont even know which of those medications helped. Besides, I cant just give all of them in effective doses to Jerry because it is impossible to use a drop on her, I cant force her to drink from her own water bowl and change it and make sure she drinks it and change it again.

So basically, they should cover the bases with their plan and I will make sure my bird is there to get examined and provide samples for tests. 

I will text in the morning so they check the email.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Today's update:

I was not able to take Jerry to the vet, for the vet was booked up for all day. We talked in the evening to discuss our course of action, though.

Jerry had stopped showing any interest in food and water last night. In the morning, I found her food bowl untouched. I don't know if she drank any water, I had forced some water with a drop last night, though.

She weighed 105 grams today. That makes it a total of 12 grams loss in three days. She still was not eating until the afternoon. I opened a new package of seeds in case she didnt like the one she had.

Finally I thought she would have some purslane. She loves it and she loves peeling the stem and getting the juice. It worked! She started eating the purslane and moved on to the food bowl, yay! 

I also prepared an extra food dish with some aminosol, a vitamin and amino acid solution. Since it was big and interesting, I thought she would be curious and try it. She did, indeed.

I carried on with the flucanozole today, though it stresses her out so much when I try to drop the water with flucanozole in her beak. I dont know how much of it she swallowed.

In the evening, I stopped studying in the study and moved into the living room, right next to the cage and started eating there. Jerry went nuts in the cage and started eating her food again. She ate quite a bit. She also drank, as well.

Today I saw her trying to poop, but nothing came out. The ones that did were very dry. After she ate, it got better and there was no orangish staining from the blood, any more.

I will see how it is tomorrow.

In the evening, the vet said the labs were not doing sophisticated work much and she would call some other labs to see what tests they were performing. We will plan more based on that.

In the meantime, the vet recommended an antiparasite medication, one drop only, in case the bleeding was from parasites. She said that the brown blood meant it is from the intestines, not bowels. I bought the medication but havent given to her, yet. She stressed out too much and she just started calming down before sleep. Now I can hear her beak grinding The vet also recommended izotonic. I know she injects them under the skin (that was done to Osman) but she said having a couple of drops in their drink would help as well. I bought it, too. I will give it tomorrow.

If a series of tests need to be done ( the vet said that it wouldnt necessarily show in one sample if there are parasites, so we might need to give more samples for a few days) so I will take Jerry there and leave her at the clinic for a few days of monitoring and testing. I dislike being away from her when she is sick, but if necessary, I will do it. I suspect she will start plucking feathers again, though. She does not like changes in environment.

I will contact an avian vet abroad for further and more specific advice on how to proceed to diagnose. 

Please pray for my Jerry girl. I hope I wont find her lighter in the morning.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

New update:

Jerry just puked.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

do you have any ginger? or ginger powder? if you can get her to eat it, or even mix the powder into a tiny bit of water and give her some that way, try to. ginger will calm the stomach for now.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

No I don't  
She puked twice with a couple of minutes in between. I took her on my shoulder to keep her calm, in case it scared her. She seems content now. She is playing with my hair.

I am very worried. Puking is added to the symptoms.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear she is vomiting. How is she doing today? Can the vet see her?


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i know it sounds gross, but can you describe the puke? was there white chunks in it? just seed?


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Hello!

I realized she had been puking since this all started.

I didnt sleep last night, I kept checking if she puked more and I called an avian vet in Australia to ask how we should proceed here with my vet. 

Around 6 in the morning I heard Jerry or Skye yelling, so I came to the room to find Jerry's face with pieces stuck on. I changed the paper at the bottom then, I left the room to pack some things and prepare their transfer cage, when I returned she had puked again, a huge chunk of eaten seeds stuck together. It didnt have much liquid. 

When she puked last night, it was pieces of seed with a little bit of milky liquid. During first one, I thought the budgies dropped some seeds (it wasn't much), but a couple of minutes later it was longer and it came on me and my computer too, then I turned on the lights and saw Jerry was puking all over the place.

I decided to just go to the vet and she was available, luckily. I had taken some notes when I talked to the avian vet, I took the notes with me and we decided to follow them as much as possible. 

The vet took swabs from vent and mouth. She will get them checked for bacteria, fungus and yeast. She will also collect a few samples to check for parasites, too. 

If necessary, she will get an X-ray for heavy metals and the avian vet also suggested that there might be a blockage somewhere in the digestive system. (She said that from what I describe, it doesnt seem much is passing through Jerry's system) So Jerry will also be given a marker to be able to determine if a blockage exists. 

The avian vet also suggested to check for rope in the crop. Apparently, they find pieces of rope and swallow it. When the vet checked her, she did not feel anything. But when I came home this evening, I examined the big chunk of puke Jerry left this morning and there was a 3-4 cm rope tangled in it. So I'm pretty sure it did not get stuck on it after Jerry puked the chunk. 

The vet just called to say she took Jerry and Skye with her to her home because she has a day off tomorrow and she would like to monitor them. I told her about the rope and she said it was possible a piece got in GI tract and damaged the tissue or it caused an infection in the digestive system. She will also keep that in mind. In the meantime, Jerry is eating happily and she is also drinking, she said. I was hearing them in the back 

We decided it was also possible she has giardia. Since I got her, she plucks her feathers under her wings in her back and on her legs. Sometimes it gets worse, sometimes it is better. While they check her samples for that, the vet gave medication against it just in case. She said even if she has it, it is not necessarily what is causing the problem at the moment. So we'd better take precaution until we determine what she has.

I am quite relieved that we are doing more without stressting Jerry much and the vet is open to reasonable suggestions and non-invasive testing.

She is going to see if he pukes what he is eating now. 

Fingers crossed..


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm glad the vet is monitoring her. Keeping fingers crossed that all goes well.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

I talked to the vet and she said Jerry puked a few feathers tangled up in seeds. She said she saw Jerry swallow the feathers, so this is probably why she is sick at the moment. ( I was never sure if he was just turning the feathers around in his beak or if he was swallowing them. Apparently he swallowed, drank, and puked this time)

We will try to find the cause of feather plucking and eating. She said it could be psychological, I asked if it could be parasites or lack of certain minerals. I know she has been plucking feathers since we got her and I had mentioned and showed the plucked areas to the vet yesterday for possible giardia. She will see what we can do.

I should research more on feather eating in cockatiels. If anybody has information, I'd appreciate it if you direct me to it.

Thank you!


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## JaimeS (Nov 28, 2011)

I just read your story and wanted to say I will be thinking of you and Jerry. I hope you and the vet can firgure out what is wrong and get your girl healthy again


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Thank you! 

I am worried that the vet will get stuck on the fact that she puked feathers and rule out everything else as possible cause. 
She has had that problem since at least we got her and it is possible she puked feathers because she was already gonna puke because of her illness and she had happened to eat some feathers.

Or it could be that the eaten feathers cause it. It could be unrelated too.

The lack of answers is frustrating me.

Btw, I keep calling Jerry "her, his" because 1) At first we thought she was a he 2) There is no gender specific pronouns in my own language so if I am tired or if there is a confusion due to thinking for a long time a bird is male and then finding out it is a female, I easily mix things up without noticing

Jerry is a female 

My giiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiirl! <3


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

The vet just called me with the test results. My baby has E.Coli in her system. Both crop and vent swabs gave the same results. Luckily, we had started her on antibiotics which are also effective against it. Now I'm off to find out how she possibly got it and I will be throwing away everything, I had already started disinfecting every cage etc.

The vet says she has seen a few e.coli cases this week and she wonders why there is an outbreak. 

Thanks for all the support guys! Your calm and helpful messages helped me a lot. When my cuties come back home, I will send their own pics You got to know Jerry's poop before her own self unfortunately


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm glad the vet figured out waht was wrong. Wishing Jerry a speedy recovery.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i hope she gets better soon!!


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Thank you!

I just called the vet to check again (I call her 3-4 times a day, I'm glad she is not annoyed lol) and Jerry seems to be doing much better. I am so relieved. They will stay there a couple of more days and I will go and pick them up. I've missed my cockatiels a lot! My babies <3

I am obsessing over disinfecting everywhere twice before I bring them back (and let the budgies out) Every wooden thing is already in the trash and plastic things have been washed in the dishwasher and bleached water. 

I will look some herbs up that are good against e coli. I remember cinnamon being good. Does anybody have more specific knowledge or experience?


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

My cuties are back home! (Skye apparently had early stages of the disease, which is not surprising)

They are not fully cured yet, but they were strong enough to carry on with their treatment back home. Their droppings look much better now. The white is proper, there is no blood or weird stickiness. They are not always huge but they are not tiny like before either. The colour is back to normal. They are eating, Jerry gained 3 grams which is great, considering she is recovering and moulting at the same time. Skye lost some weight but she had started losing due to illness already, she is only down 5 in 5 days. It is also because she refused to eat much in a different environment. My girl! You should have heard the sound they both made when I brought them home and opened the door to the living room. It was a pleasant surprise for them Now Skye is eating, too. (She had already started eating on the train. I guess she felt familiar when I was there, holding the cage on my lap)

I'm so happy that my Jerry and Skye are back home and better!

I thought they would rest, but Jerry is going nuts, demanding to be taken out. But it's a no no for now


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I hope they get better soon, and they can still come out of the cage as long as everything is disinfected afterwards.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm glad they're back home.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Jerry and Skye are very well now. They gained the weight they had lost. Now Skye is 99 grams and Jerry is 119 grams. 

We will carry on with their medication, since apparently e.coli needs to be treated for a long time to be wiped out completely. But they are good, their poops are back to normal and they are bringing the house down again 

Thank you all for the support. It means so much to me.

P.S I had adopted a very sick budgie at the vet the day I took Jerry and Skye. He was a severely sick bird and I asked for tests immediately. Turns out, he had e.coli too but it was so advanced that it had been affecting the central nervous system and in the end it shut down liver and kidneys. 

Anybody who comes across this thread can see what happens when the birds are monitored and their sickness detected right away, compared to them getting neglected to such a degree that there is no way to save them despite the fact that the disease is curable and easy to detect.

Once again, thank you for all your support!


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