# Raiden - 7 months on and no better :(



## HereticPr1me (Apr 10, 2012)

Hey everybody o/
Some of you may remember Raiden from my original thread about him not liking me. Ive been following the training anmd advice pretty consistently since then, but sadly theres has been no improvement at all.

To recap, it all comes down to relentless yelling
He's never been keen on me handling him at all, but will sort of step up in so far as hoping onto my hand then running up my arm or simply flying off immediately, but at least he does that much.

The rest of the time is a constant cycle of Eat, Sleep, Preen, Yell.

Ive been ignoring it as best I can for almost 7 months now and, honestly, my nerves are breaking.
Broken in fact. Its gotten to the point where I cant even stand to be in the house with him, Im so stressed even typing this now my hands are shaking there's tears on my face and he's in the lounge yelling his head off.

It has gotten unbearable, and with no sign of any progress at all Ive come to the conclusion he needs to be rehomed
Its breaking my heart really, I never took him just to give it a go, I was looking forward to a good 15 more years of us together...

For months Ive been making excuses, "its the mating season", "its molting season", "his pin feathers are bothering him" and now "its fireworks season", but inreality its nothing to do with any of that.
He just seems to be a relelntless yeller, and as a result Im ignoring him most of the time so instead of us being buddies, he's in the lounge alone and Im sitting in the spare room stressed.

I have two questions :
1. Is there any final ideas before I look to rehoming him ?
2. Can anyone reccomend a good parrot rescue in the UK ?
(I know of Birdline and the Kerrera parrot sanctuary)

Oh, wouldnt you know it he's started whistling after 3.5 hours of yelling... better go tell him how great he is:wacko:

Thanks again all, sorry if it sounds like I hate him, I dont, I adore him really, I just hate the situation Im stuck in with him, its so upsetting and I cant help but feel he'd have a better life in a different environment (other tiels, aviary, whatever)


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

Have you tried covering him when he screams? And uncovering and rewarding him with a treat when he's stops? 

I have successfully stopped my tiel, ama, from constant screaming this way. It took me like two months and pure consistency, but I did finally do it.


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## HereticPr1me (Apr 10, 2012)

Hi Maggie, thanks for the reply. I did try this with him and he does stop, but he's usually stopped by the time I get to him and get the cover over. Then he starts almost immediately I uncover him again and then gets confrontational, and if I keep him covered he just starts yelling from under the cover.

Consistency is difficult too as he has free range of the lounge and so is not usually inside his cage when he starts (locking him in will set him off in short order too). If he's on the door I can usher him inside and close it, but then he takes a dislike to my hands 
I filmed him for a few hours one day when I was out and he still stands calling whenever hes not eating, preening or sleeping, it seems almost recreational

I choose the words "yell" and "call" deliberately as Ive heard him proper screaming and thats only when he's very aggro which, mercifully, isnt that often, lol. I actually have some video of that too.


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## Bird Junky (Jul 24, 2012)

Hi As a flock animal It's company he needs not isolation. I hesitate to
give you any advise except. As you feel about him the way you do I
think re-homing would be your best option...B.J.


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

I had to learn to distract ama from the screams sometimes. I spent time teaching him phrases. He knows "pretty bird" "what are you doing?" And "pew pew" and the Mickey Mouse march. Whenever he screams and its unpleasant- i pick a phrase or the song. I say "what are you doing, ama?" And he immediately switches from the obnoxious call to "what are you doing?" Or if I whistle the Mickey Mouse march- he will start to whistle it. This really helps me a lot when he still does the annoying calls.


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## HereticPr1me (Apr 10, 2012)

So you think its worth a try interacting with him when he yells, rather than ignoring him ?
I was under the impression that would just reinforce it. I'll certainly try that.
I take it theres a limit to the interaction - ie dont come running back into the room, but if he's sat on my knee or shoulder yelling then start trying to distract him ?

Ive been trying to teach him stuff when I can and he's started to pick up a tune (english country garden), but as I say spending time with him is difficult when he yells so much, so maybe distraction will be a halfway ground.

BJ, thanks I know what you mean and this is part of my concern that he's not getting enough company from me (or isnt always keen on it when he does). Id love him to settle but worry that he wont and in keeping him I'll be in effect forcing him to live somewhere he's not happy. I know he's not being malicious, and neither am I, but I also feel I need to do whats right for him, for us both - just not certain what that is yet:wacko: but rehoming is certainly still an option, heartbreaking as it is.

I should say he is sometimes really nice and those days are a joy, but they are so rare, and followed by all the rest...


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## lethalfire (Aug 29, 2012)

I got this delivered to my e-mail this morning. At the beginning or the end (I can't remember now) she says using this method has helped w/ screaming and biting birds to resolve the issues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkI9PvOsjS0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I'm not sure What exactly she would do for the screaming part but maybe after watching it you could do a better search or even it might help him to bond w/ you. Worth a shot.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I've thankfully never had to deal with the screaming issue but wanted to mention that I think tiels sense frustration, etc. I know it has to be hard to stay calm when the screaming is driving you crazy but when you interact with your tiel try to take some deep breaths, etc before you do. I know for instance, if I'm running late in the morning, frustrated, and want my tiel to go back in his cage, he seems to sense this and becomes defiant. If I calm down, he usually calms down and goes right in.


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

something i did with grey (he was a yeller til i got him ama) - was i would tap him when he was yelling. his instant reaction was to get quiet and find the perpetrator who touched him. he would turn around to look at me and since he was being quiet from the tap- i would start to talk to him and it was a distraction from his constant yelling. 

so yes, i think distracting him will help. don't make it seem like you are giving him attention, but rather just taking the energy elsewhere in his mind. 

another great thing is music. if you play a lot of music, the birds tend to listen instead of make the noises themselves.


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## fuerusty (Sep 18, 2012)

*try the cover!*

my very 1st bird Lane was a screamer.... all day every day for six mo. and one day i yelled back witch made him worse . so i took him to the vet cause i thought he was in pain. the vet told me to cover him up when he yells and when he stops take the cover off. so i took him home and started right a way. that day he was covered most of the day but as time went on it got less and less. now 6 years later he don't yell and he is a happy daddy. don't give up your going to make  but keep it up it works.



ps lane has forgiven me for yelling back at him


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## Lori_S (Oct 19, 2012)

Hey there HereticPr1me,

I am so sorry to hear about your beloved pet's yelling. On the topic of distraction ... have you considered getting him/her a companion? I realize that maybe this isn't an option for you, but I thought I would mention it to you. I am just thinking, tiels are companion birds, they live in flocks in the wild. Maybe this could work, but definitely ask the experts on this one first. My birds are a new found hobby for me and I have little experience with tiels.


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## HereticPr1me (Apr 10, 2012)

Well, just an update. I tried distracting him when he started up but with widely varying success.
Sometimes he would be distracted to me and then Id make a big show of having just noticed him since stopping.
Other times he would just ignore me and keep shouting.
Then a couple of times he turned his anxiety directly at me - in an attacking manner

Invariably however he would resume again soon after - and its not realistic to be talking to him him 24/7.

I did get him a radio a few months back, but Im not sure its helped any as such. Nonetheless he probably like it so I leave it on for him between 9am and 2pm (he tends to nap at 2pm). I also recorded a flock of budgies which I put on from time to time

So, as ignoring him go us nowhere and feeling that distracting wasnt working Ive switched tack to caging him. He freeranges, so doesnt like being caged and whilst "punishment" isnt how I wanted to go it does at least seem to arrest the yelling immediately.
What I dont know is if he will actually make the connection that yelling = cage, but being nice or just quiet = attention and treats. When he's out it can be a faff getting him back in by which time he's stopped yelling anyway, but I still go through the motions.

Its great to hear that its worked for you Fuerusty, do you think it will eventually take root ?
I must confess it actually helps me to deal with it too as I can actively "do" something now rather than just sit and take it month after month:wacko:

Taking in another bird to "fix" my current one doesnt feel right. I would be more inclined to find him a home with other cockatiels to be honest and will do if that turns out for the best. The last thing I want to do is put more strain on the parrot rescue system so I hope it doesnt come to that, but I do know what you mean - he was 6 years old when I took him in, so had been on his own all that time already.

On that note, I joined a UK based parrot rescue forum (Birdline for anyone who knows it) and hope to speak with a local behaviourist there - as with anything, theres nothing like actually _seeing_ things first hand.

Anyway, long post sorry, but thanks again for all the advice and support. Hopefully we're on course to settling him down now, he deserves to be happy and content.


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## HereticPr1me (Apr 10, 2012)

Well just a wee update on Raiden. Sadly theres been no improvement at all 
Initially it seemed caging him was helping, it would arrest the yelling before it developed into a "yelling session" and by not having to ignore him we have been able to spend more time together.
Sadly he seems to have caught onto the fact that caging is only temporary and doesnt really amount to anything so the yelling has started up again

Even once caged and covered he will just sit there and keep yelling and once he stops and gets let out he just starts again so Im back and forth to the cage every 15 minutes.

For a couple of weeks it was nice, but it seems Im back to how it has been for the past 8 months, I really dont know what to do now...


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm sorry you're still having issues. How long does he sleep at night? Does he get covered? Any chance this is hormonal behavior? Is there anything that he likes to do? A favorite toy? Or shredding paper? My tiel is happiest it seems when he is "helping" me. If I'm sorting through mail, he likes to "help" aka chew on paper.  If I'm reading a magazine, he likes to help, aka chew on the magazine, etc. I just wonder if there's anyway to engage him. Also, awhile ago I read an article on a rehomed screaming tiel. I'll try to find it again and post it for you to read.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Found it. This was on the Pittsburgh Parrot Education and Resourse Center website: http://www.pitpeac.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Screaming-Heidenreich.pdf


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## HereticPr1me (Apr 10, 2012)

Thanks for the reply and link 
I had a read through the article and its pretty much what Ive been doing, as far as I know anyway, but perhaps Im not getting it quite right or my body language is all wrong...
He gets plenty of sleep, in fact the one thing he is very good for is that he's a great sleeper so gets about 10-12 hours a night.
Hormonally I followed what others suggested and have been ensuring 14hrs of sundown per day (not an issue now in the winter).

He does get covered at night, yes, in fact when he's ready for bed he will tend to kick off if I dont cover him, so any yelling after 8pm and he's covered for the night then he will spend half an hour thrashing his cage stuff.
I also leave him covered for a little while first thing in the morning until Ive sorted my own breakfast etc out.

He can be so nice when it suits him (ie right now he's sat with me at the computer) and I always talk to him and offer his hemp seeds when he is but then he'll just kick off without warning or nip my face and I wonder if he's learning anything at all.
Even Pavlov's dog managed bell=food :lol:

As for toys, he doesnt really show any interest in anything. Paper, shredders, jinlge toys arent really of any interest, the most Ive seen him do is crew a cardboard box.
If anything he tends to get aggro - for example, opening the mail the crest will go down and he'll start yelling at it and then I have no idea what to do.
I do sometimes wonder if he's just not been exposed to things, but he is 6 years old (almost 7 now I suppose) so surely stuff like dishcloths, letters, plates shouldnt be anyting to shout about.
The one place he does seem most calm is when he's in the shower with me, it must be something about perching up on the rail with the sound of "rain", but he seems really content then.

I think I'll ease off on the caging for now though as it seems he has associated my hands with closing the cage door and so Im back to getting bitten during step-up, he's a nutter
Its saddening really as he could have a really good life here with me if he would only learn to settle.


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## HereticPr1me (Apr 10, 2012)

Not sure if I mentioned this before, but it was a woman who handed Raiden in to the rescue and I am a man, is this likely to be playing into it ? Could he still be calling for her and is stuck with me ? I hear it in larger parrots with some males not liking men, but hopefully thats not at play here...
I mention it because he went straight to my mum's shoulder when she visited, which surprised me given how he acts around new stuff.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

I second getting another tiel, honestly.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

HereticPr1me said:


> Not sure if I mentioned this before, but it was a woman who handed Raiden in to the rescue and I am a man, is this likely to be playing into it ? Could he still be calling for her and is stuck with me ? I hear it in larger parrots with some males not liking men, but hopefully thats not at play here...
> I mention it because he went straight to my mum's shoulder when she visited, which surprised me given how he acts around new stuff.


It might have something to do with it. My rehomed tiel had a prior female owner and Sunny definitely took to me much faster than to my fiance. It took several months for Sunny really to want much to do with him. They're now friends though.  It sounds like you're actually making progress with Raiden. I think just keep trying- and keep trying to see if he'll start playing with something. Although my tiel took to chewing paper right away, it took almost a year to get him to start playing with toys. He never had any shredder toys, etc. before so I think it just took him awhile to realize it was fun.


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## HereticPr1me (Apr 10, 2012)

echolalia said:


> I second getting another tiel, honestly.


Thanks, yeah, it has been suggested and I understand why, but to be honest if other 'tiel company is what he needs then I would be looking to rehome him to somewhere with another 'tiel rather than take another in myself. Its been such a bad experience I just wouldnt go down that route.
I take it onboard though and it is looking like that may be the case in the new year.



sunnysmom said:


> It sounds like you're actually making progress with Raiden.


Unfortunately yesterday and today have seen a return to the multi-hour yelling sessions. Starting 10 minutes after me coming home from work and going on until 630pm at which point I had to capitulate and go make dinner. When he saw me enter the room he carried on yelling and then attacked my head and hands 
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say its frustration being taken out rather than actual aggression, but blood was drawn so I really dont know.
He's gone back to his cage for food now, so I have a reprive.

Worse still, when I start back work after new year they have told us we are going onto 12 hour shifts (4 on/4 off), so I'll only get to see him for 2 hours per day when Im working - if he spends them yelling he's going to be alone for 4 days at a time and that's no good at all.

It's really looking like a new home where he actually *wants* to be is the best I can do for him, its the last thing I want to do as theres enough parrots in rescue already  but if its whats best for him...
What do you think ?


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I wish you lived closer to me! I would love to take Raiden in for a few days to see how he'd do with another tiel and see how my tiel reacts to another tiel. (I constantly wonder if a second tiel is a good idea for us or not.) Anyway, I don't know if a second tiel is the answer for Raiden or not. However, you should never get a second tiel just for your tiel. It should only be if you want a second tiel because as you know the two tiels might not actually bond, etc. and now your dealing with 2 birds. There is nothing wrong with rehoming a tiel if you feel that's what's best. I can't answer that question for you however, but I know you've tried. And if you think it's really not working for you and Raiden then it's okay to find him a new home. Maybe contact one of the rescues in your area and see what the process is, etc. Maybe they might have some other helpful suggestions for you too. Keep us posted.


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## HereticPr1me (Apr 10, 2012)

Thanks Sunnysmom, I did speak to a UK based parrot rescue and they suggested "bird dating", ie borrowing a 'tiel from someone for a few days to see how Raiden reacted. This was what I was going to do in the hope it would at least answer the question of whether he needed company.
Sadly Raiden is no longer with me as he was involved in a terrible accident on xmas day  I wont go into it here as its all covered in my other thread "emergency - door accident" 
Thank you for your reply and suggestion though, I appreciate you taking the time 
That also applies to everyone who has offered advice and support in this thread, I just wish I had better news ... but thanks everyone.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Oh no! I'm so sorry. I didn't see the other thread. I will go and read.


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