# Could Jerry have PDD?



## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

I have posted about Jerry on a previous thread:

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=33500&highlight=jerry

Yesterday and today I have found undigested seeds in her droppings. I dont know how many droppings got seeds in them because they are covered with millet at the bottom of the cage, but I was hand feeding her and she pooped on me today, and it was still small but it had a few millet pieces in it. Yesterday I had found a couple of half digested seeds as well. 

The vet had her on two different antibiotics (Sulfadoxine-Trimethoprim and gentamicin at the same time) and she gave her one dose of flucanozole. She did not improve, she had been puking and still eating a lot. They found e.coli in the test and I ordered another one when I picked her up. The result is not in yet.

I was wondering if she has PDD and she is having secondary infections due to it. She has this weird headshake and today I called the vet about possible ear infection and she said she was able to fly, she didnt lose balance and the antibiotics that were used on her would treat an ear infection by now. (She was on them for 10 days)

Her nose is also weird. It is not this nice pinkish whitish colour any more. It is pale with a tinge of a dark colour and there was some dark substance in one nare. Some of it came off when I gave her a warm bath but it still makes me wonder. What if the head shake (which is still there) and the nose condition is due to PDD?

Skye has the head shake too but not as much as Jerry. 

I have been providing heat and moist for them in my study. Today I weighed Jerry and she was 93 (She weighed 90 two days ago and 89 yesterday). I have not seen any other vomit except for a tiny piece of millet vomit I found in the cage in the morning. She is more active than the day I picked her up. She is not sleeping all the time, any more. I also have her on cefuroxime, which was in the "effective" group in the e.coli test results. I also gave her voricanozole. But there are no studies on how effective it is against megabacteria, in case she has it, too.

I feel helpless. The avian vet quit the clinic he was at (It is not possible for me to take her to Istanbul anyway) and he is on vacation. I dont know when he will open his own clinic (which will be closer to me). The other vet I was taking them is useless. 

She is at the food box, eating again but I dont know if she is starving due to illness and eating, or if it is just the time to eat for her. 

I feel helpless. I was so happy to see she gained 4 grams and she is more active..

Sorry for a post all over the place, I cannot gather my thoughts..


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Since she has been on SO much medication recently, the flora in her gut could be out of whack. I would look into getting her some probiotics (benebac is the most popular) and giving her those to see if that clears up the seed in the poop issue. Have you checked her keel? That's the best way to tell if she's a good weight or not.


----------



## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Oh her keel bone is sticking out so much. That was what also made me very very mad. She was at the vet for 9 days to make sure everything possible was made for her to gain her health, I called twice every day and kept hearing stories about how good and cheerful she was, how well she was eating.. Then I went to pick her up to see a bird who has lost so much weight in 9 days that her keel bone was sticking out big time!!

There are no bird probiotics here but I will give her some bio yoghurt. I remember it had helped CookieTiel's Buddy a bit when he had bad droppings. 

She gained a few grams today and she is very playful, though she has some undigested seeds in her droppings. But it is not only seed droppings so she must be getting something digested. I am also giving her baby food and amino acid complexes to make sure she has some nutrients. She is also on vitamins (mostly A and tiny bit of others so as to not overdose her on them) 

I dont know if I should wait before giving her yoghurt, though. She is still on antibiotics and antifungals. But she has been on meds nearly a month now. 

She is so tiny now (she is a big built bird, so even at 93 grams, she is tiny) that her wings look too big for her body


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I would wait to give the probiotics til the antibiotics are stopped and see if those help. When sick, birds will lose weight, it usually the first thing I've noticed in my sick birds. Its good that you've caught this though and she is obviously very loved.


----------



## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

She is my baby <3 

All my birds are my babies 

I am now soaking seeds with distilled water and a few drops of apple cider vinegar. I hope she does not have trouble digesting those. Luckily I have plenty of liquid food and baby food, I will stuff her as much as possible to keep her strong enough to fight off whatever she has. I also have Bird Salad from Vitakraft. I hope it gives some nutrients to help her as well.

What gives me hope is that she is much more active and alert than the time I picked her up from the vet. The heater is definitely helping. Baby food must, too. She is even beak grinding now


----------



## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

An update:

The vet called me and said there was no e.coli in her swab this time. So it is most likely megabacteria. I have found oral amphotericin B from the Netherlands and ordered it and it will most likely arrive in 5 to 7 days. I will try to keep Jerry stable till then so she has a chance.

She has been good at keeping the 92 in the morning 94 in the evening weight so far. It gives me hope. She eats a lot of spray millet and I give as much as she wants, and I also give baby food. The vet in Holland said we should offer egg food as well, so I am adding it today. 

She is alert and playful, still. Fingers crossed for my baby and those post guys should work fast!!


----------



## fastjosh007 (Sep 27, 2012)

thats too bad... but if she starts to really suffer... i recommend putting her down because i know i couldn't stand to look at my birds like that and its for the best because if all turns to **** then just do what you think is best because if i knew my bird wouldn't be able to fight it off any more id put it out of its mizzry. hope she gets better


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

fastjosh007 said:


> thats too bad... but if she starts to really suffer... i recommend putting her down because i know i couldn't stand to look at my birds like that and its for the best because if all turns to **** then just do what you think is best because if i knew my bird wouldn't be able to fight it off any more id put it out of its mizzry. hope she gets better


Some birds with PDD are able to live out reasonably normal lives..I wouldn't recommend putting a bird down just because it has PDD. If it was struggling and the PDD was unmanageable then it may be a reasonable suggestion, but for now it is only a question of whether the bird has it or not.


----------



## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Putting an animal down has very strict criteria for me. I would be thinking of it only if Jerry was in a specific condition.

Since yesterday, Jerry's droppings turned to pretty much completely undigested seed. I don't know if baby food and liquid amino acids and coenzyme I give her is getting absorbed or not. She is still very playful and active (how.. I dont know. She has a huge life energy) 

Today I weighed her in the morning and she has lost 3 or 4 grams in two days. She does not sit still on the scale, so I dont know if it is as small as 2 or big as 4. 

She and Skye had had the same problems (green sticky droppings, weight loss, funny smell, vomiting) and Skye recovered fully and Jerry has this undigested food issue, it seems more likely than not she has AGY now. I ordered amphotericin B from abroad and I am determined to do whatever it takes to keep her as strong as possible until the meds arrive. I ordered bird probiotics with it, too. 

IF she has PDD, I will not give up on her. She is still very active and playful, very alert and happy despite her disease; I will ring the avian vet on vacation and talk about getting her the medication. 

I love her.

Now I need to go feed baby food to Jerry, she is calling for me


----------



## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Jerry is going downhill so fast. 

4 days ago she had 2-3 undigested seeds in her droppings. 3 days ago it was half of it. For the past two days it is only urine, urate and undigested seeds. 

I dont know if she will make it until the meds arrive, I dont know if the baby food i give helps at all. 

She just had a dropping which was completely sticky bubbles. I just dont know anything any more


----------



## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

I'm thinking of you and Jerry and hoping she makes it until meds arrive.


----------



## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

SunnyandChickie said:


> I'm thinking of you and Jerry and hoping she makes it until meds arrive.


Thank you very much. I appreciate it. 

Jerry is a bit interesting today. She called for me and she was running around like crazy in the cage (She does that when she cant wait to get out. She was like that when i put her to bed last night). I took her out and she flew to my head, we went to the kitchen to prepare her baby food, she flew around again. 

I was sad to see she lost 10 grams overnight. However, she just made a poop with some substance! She also refuses to eat the baby food now and is eating her seeds. She is not paying attention to millet anymore, either. 

I am confused and hopeful today. How did she manage to lose 10 grams and today she is flying, running around like it is nothing? I had put some thyme juice in her water yesterday to help her digestive system, maybe it helped? Or she was fighting the disease all along and I have been trying to keep her strong. Maybe her immune system is coming around? Oh I am afraid to be hopeful!

I will change the paper towel at the bottom of the cage again to see any new droppings. 

Please pray for my Jerry.

Update after checking paper: YES YES! She has two other droppings with substance! She is also picking out sunflower seeds from the food bowls. She had not been eating them during her sickness until last night. She started eating last night and now she is eating them, too! I hope her digestive system is really starting to work!


----------



## bubbleslove (May 27, 2012)

My tiel died because of PDD

The Vet said put her down but I said No. We struggled on and on for a few weeks. She had to be force fed with formula via a long tube. She put on weight. But how long was this to go on

I never gave up. I loved her so much. But at what cost to her

Pdd can only be diagnosed at an autopsy. There r other means but not on a small bird

Hopefully its not PDD.


----------



## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

I hope it is not, either. She had an e.coli infection and the vet suspects megabacteria as secondary infection more than PDD. I am not so sure but I think she started digesting again.

When was your bird sick with PDD? Now there is a treatment that helped quite some birds. But my problem is that there is no diagnosis of either megabacteria or PDD because there is no vet that can do that here.


----------



## bubbleslove (May 27, 2012)

My bird died at age 4.5 yrs in May 2011. She only weighed 50g and her PCV was extremely low. As a result she would follow the sun throughout the day. I would find her wherever there was a spot of sun

If only she would of taken to the formula but at that age she no longer had a 'taste' for it.

She started out with a red throat so red that I thought there was blood in her throat

She was sick from 1 Jan to 25 May. We all tried so hard. 

I'm glad to hear there may be a med for it. Sorry u have no vet to help u

Please keep me informed. My heart goes out to u. I pray all will be fine


----------



## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

bubbleslove said:


> My bird died at age 4.5 yrs in May 2011. She only weighed 50g and her PCV was extremely low. As a result she would follow the sun throughout the day. I would find her wherever there was a spot of sun
> 
> If only she would of taken to the formula but at that age she no longer had a 'taste' for it.
> 
> ...



Ah poor little thing! The formula would not help her. The disease stops not only digestion but also absorption of food even if it is completely digested. That is why it is important to start the meds as soon as possible and stop the inflammation causing scar tissue. 

Jerry is 79 grams now. She woke up as 76 grams, but she has eaten well by herself today and she refuses baby food. She has had a number of droppings with substance in it, rather than undigested seeds. (She has very little undigested seeds in it so I guess her digestive system is starting)

She is also playing a lot and resting on my shoulder with a short nap, and playing a lot again. 

Thank you so much for you well wishes. I am sure the positivity from people here is helping.


----------



## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

I dont want to jinx it BUT, Jerry's poops are getting better and better!

Aaaaaaaa I want to scream from the top of my lungs! 

Oh please, please, I want my Jerry to get over this disease and be healthy again. I hope she has enough fight left in her to kick it away. She is playing and eating on the chair next to me right now. My giiiiirl <3!


----------



## bubbleslove (May 27, 2012)

Glad to hear she is getting better

When did these meds come out. Because in 2011 when the Vet suspected PDD he said there was no med to help her ?


----------



## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

They had the experimental treatments in 2008. As far as I can tell from the dates, it was known in 2011 but a vet needs to be up to date with new developments to know about these. The vet I took my birds did not know about it, either. When I told her about it, she wrote it down.

The avian vet did know and he knew the treatment, too.

The meds were already out. The vets that used the meds just looked at how the disease developed and came up with a hypothesis to prevent damage and save the birds, and they used the meds that would theoretically help. They had successful results in birds that were not too damaged by the disease.


----------



## bubbleslove (May 27, 2012)

I only know that my Avian Vet was in contact with the USA and UK when he suspected PDD. 

Can u tell me the names of the meds which do help?


----------



## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Jerry woke up as 82 grams today! (or 83. She would not sit still on the scale lol)

She was already up early in the morning, calling for me and running around in the cage to be let out. 

I took her out, weighed her and gave her some water. She likes drinking water from running tap, perched on my finger lol.

She ate and slept a bit more afterwards. I have checked and while she still has some undigested seeds in her droppings, they have much more substance now and Jerry has perked up much more. 

I think she is slowly recovering!! Since yesterday she is refusing baby food and eating her own seeds. She is not touching the soft food, though. But I also gave dried bird salad mix and she ate some of that, too. My baby! <3

I will keep posting updates.


----------



## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Good news! Keep doing well Jerry!


----------



## stevechurch2222 (Sep 25, 2011)

That's great news,keep getting better Jerry.We are all rooting for you.


----------



## CookieTiel (Feb 6, 2012)

Great news!! I hope things continue to improve for little Jerry.


----------

