# OMG... I just "bought" this cinnamon tiel! ... waiting for DNA results....



## Guest (Feb 23, 2016)

I just got home from the bird shop... they had 3 tiels left and I ended up picking the pretty cinnamon tiel... ordered $30 DNA test but won't be taking the bird home until I know it's a male.

I really do MUCH prefer normal grey tiels (I just LOVE it when they have dark feet and dark beaks as Mother Nature made them before humans started messing around trying to breed for "unique colors" rather than breeding for HEALTH). Their natural coloring is already so beautiful!

... I didn't get the normal grey they had because it had same white markings on back of its head as Rascal and I felt it might make it too difficult to tell them apart?... but I'm kind of wishing I had gotten the more normal grey one.... I know I'm mental :blush: 

... this cinnamon might turn out to be female though.... will know in a week... so Rascal's brother is in progress  Here are pics of the bird who hatched on Jan 8th:


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2016)

I forgot to ask... how come the bird looks so "old"? What I mean by that is how come his/her orange spots are so bright and developed? Because when Rascal was only 2 months he barely had any orange spots at all (extremely faint and non-existent actuallly) and Rascal very much looked like a female and like a baby at that age.

I'm naming the new tiel "Coconut" =)

EDIT: Forgot to mention that all of the baby tiels ran away from me or simply ignored me completely lol... so no good stories to tell here... I just picked the one that looked most different from Rascal and it had better be a male so I don't have to DNA test over and over again


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

What a beauty  I love cinnamons! I believe my Tony is cinnamon/grey with ghost pearls, which are more visible in the natural light sometimes.
I think Coconut is a beautiful name. Hopefully it's a boy, as planned.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2016)

I must admit I do love the lighter grey color on the cinnamon.... hopefully it will turn out to be a male. The lighter color also suits the name "Coconut" better 

They did have another cinnamon tiel in the cage that was already sold to someone else... it looked like a cinnamon/grey with ghost pearls as you just mentioned as I could see pearls in his chest. 

I cannot wait to take new tiel home... I don't know why but I have a feeling it might be a female... that would be bad luck! The bird did make some sounds... the lady said he is "vocal"... so that's a good sign that he might be male?.... I was told its mother was a lutino and father was a cinnamon (or was it vice versa... don't remember!).


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Being vocal is probably a good sign 
Are you sure you don't want a female?
My Tony and Candy have been together for over four years now and have never had any eggs, if that is your worry about male/female combo. I personally like having one of each kind, they are so different


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## CaliTiels (Oct 18, 2012)

Congratulations! I love the rush of getting a new bird! Reminds of the day I got baby Jaid. Good luck with Coconut. I have a feeling he'll be a cock as you wanted. Being vocal is a hopeful sign


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2016)

eduardo said:


> Being vocal is probably a good sign
> Are you sure you don't want a female?
> My Tony and Candy have been together for over four years now and have never had any eggs, if that is your worry about male/female combo. I personally like having one of each kind, they are so different


Rascal has always been very hormonal... he has always tried to mate with my hands (I'm always like thanks but no thanks!! Then put him down) and he also tries to mate with certain objects in the kitchen pantry and his custom made bed I built him which he sleeps on in the fish tank. I have to make room very dark... and the once he realizes it is sleepy time... then I can make room brighter or he will get down to business if you know what I mean  This works very well and now he goes straight to sleep without any monkey business. He gets about 10 hours sleep every night.... maybe not enough?

I worry he will mate with female tiel? I was also going to eventually try to have new tiel sleep in fish tank with Rascal... I honestly feel like I would end up with egg laying tiel then (since fish tank can resemble a nest) and that's a concern 

Plus, Rascal LOVES singing to other birds... and if new bird is also male he would definitely love singing back and forth with him...


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2016)

CaliTiels said:


> Congratulations! I love the rush of getting a new bird! Reminds of the day I got baby Jaid. Good luck with Coconut. I have a feeling he'll be a cock as you wanted. Being vocal is a hopeful sign


Ya, let's hope so 

I heard him making sounds but it was more like little screeches..... I'm now happy I chose the cinnamon... it's nice to have a bird of different coloring than Rascal.... much easier to tell them apart and just looks cool to have dark grey with light grey together.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2016)

... I guess I could just have new tiel NOT sleep in fish tank with Rascal...then new tiel would have to always sleep alone... but isn't is better to get another male rather than female since I already have a male who is rather very "into monkey business" if you know what I mean.... lol


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

Beautiful little bird!! Congrats... Hoping for a boy!!


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2016)

I'm eager to bring him home  Is it normal for cinnamons that are not even 2 months old to have such vibrant/bright orange circles? As I'm used to seeing those orange circles be super faint (barely there at all on baby grey normals) and not become so bright until they are a little older. I guess it's different when it comes to cinnamons? 

Right now that cinnamon looks like a boy! ... as it has such bright orange cheeks... that bird does not even look like a baby tiel to me??? OMG... I hope it is and they didn't trick me or something lol The grey tiels they had looked like babies... but not the cinnamon :blink: Am I insane? Or does that NOT look like a baby tiel that hatched on Jan 8th?

They said the bird hatched on Jan 8th... how can that be possible??? As that would make it about a month and a half old... can they even be weaned that soon?? They told me the tiels are about 8 weeks old... what the heck? Either I am REALLY bad at math... or something doesn't make sense....


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2016)

Sorry my bad, I just called the bird shop.... the tiel did hatch on Jan 8th. She said they just very recently finished weaning... so the bird is about one month and a half old. Does that sound right to you? Why are his orange circles so bright and pretty as a baby? He already looks like a boy! That bird had BETTER not be the father!?!? :blink:

I didn't even realize they could be weaned that soon. Then again, I don't anything about weaning birds. Oops :blush:


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

I don't know, I don't wean my chicks until they are 8-9 weeks old, however I allow mine to wean when they are ready and do not push them. Here is a pic of my normal grey male at 33 days old...


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

Here is my pearl male at 35 days old...


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

And a lutino pearl hen at 36 days old.. Not just to give you an idea of babies of different mutations cheek patches and baby looks.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2016)

ParrotletsRock said:


> I don't know, I don't wean my chicks until they are 8-9 weeks old, however I allow mine to wean when they are ready and do not push them. Here is a pic of my normal grey male at 33 days old...


Your tiel in that pic looks like a baby... to me the cinnamon tiel I'm having DNA tested does not look like a baby... or does he?? When my tiel was a baby he looked like this. here is pic when he was 2 months old.... as you can see he very much looked like a baby whereas the cinnamon does not!


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2016)

ParrotletsRock said:


> And a lutino pearl hen at 36 days old.. Not just to give you an idea of babies of different mutations cheek patches and baby looks.


I see, thanks for the pics... I guess since his mother or father was a lutino he has some lutino "stuff" in him which explains why his orange cheeks are so bright at only a month old 

EDIT: OMG, my tiel was sooooo cute when he was a baby! (Yours super cute also, baby tiels are cuties). My tiel's feet and beak used to be very light in color... and they both turned so nice and dark as he grew older, pretty cool.


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

Juliet said:


> I see, thanks for the pics... I guess since his mother or father was a lutino he has some lutino "stuff" in him which explains why his orange cheeks are so bright at only a month old
> 
> EDIT: OMG, my tiel was sooooo cute when he was a baby! (Yours super cute also, baby tiels are cuties). My tiel's feet and beak used to be very light in color... and they both turned so nice and dark as he grew older, pretty cool.


If it honestly looks male to me because the face is so yellow, but you can't really tell by looks when young.. Your right he does not look like a 6 week old baby either, but he does look young, more like 8-10 weeks. Again tho it is very hard to tell age and gender from looking at them.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

My guess would be that it's a young male about six months old, starting to get his adult plumage but not all the way there yet since there are still some juvenile markings visible on the tail and rump.

The pearl mutation has more yellow in the face than others, so hens and juveniles often have a 'male' look to them. Lutinos and some pied birds have yellow faces from the first moment they have feathers, which makes the cheek look brighter. But cinnamon hens and juveniles have dull faces similar to the normal grey, and I agree that this baby looks older than what the pet shop told you. 

It's hard to be sure from the pictures, but it looks like there might be some plain grey feathers on the rump. If that's the case this bird is definitely switching over to adult male plumage. Females keep their rump stripes for life but males lose them at maturity.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2016)

tielfan said:


> My guess would be that it's a young male about six months old, starting to get his adult plumage but not all the way there yet since there are still some juvenile markings visible on the tail and rump.
> 
> The pearl mutation has more yellow in the face than others, so hens and juveniles often have a 'male' look to them. Lutinos and some pied birds have yellow faces from the first moment they have feathers, which makes the cheek look brighter. But cinnamon hens and juveniles have dull faces similar to the normal grey, and I agree that this baby looks older than what the pet shop told you.
> 
> It's hard to be sure from the pictures, but it looks like there might be some plain grey feathers on the rump. If that's the case this bird is definitely switching over to adult male plumage. Females keep their rump stripes for life but males lose them at maturity.



OMG this is NOT good. I'm going to call the bird shop again tomorrow and speak to the woman I saw there today. I HOPE they aren't lying to me. I never told them I was looking for certain age... so I'm not sure why they would lie to me... the bird shop is over a 30 min drive from where I live so it's not super close... otherwise I would have gone back to look at them in person again tomorrow. Or maybe I should just wait to bring it up again when they call me with DNA results? 

I'm going to tell them I showed pics of the bird to very knowledgeable people and they told me there is noway that bird is only one and a half month old... I will see what they say to me then. Maybe the breeder they use who sent them these tiels are the ones lying if someone is in fact lying? I was told all 4 of the baby tiels I saw today were from the same clutch.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2016)

Here are 2 more pics of the bird... now I'm freaking out that I might have been lied to and this bird wasn't really hatched on Jan 8th!!!? You can see this tiel's sibling sitting next to him... or should I say his "son" omg.

I've tried finding photos of other 2 month old cinnamon tiels but can't find any  It seems like the tiels from this clutch all have well developed bright orange circles.. so maybe this tiel really is only one month and half old? Look at his sibling... he also has bright circles.... or maybe the entire clutch is much older than what they claim. It's either one or the other....

Or....

These are alien birds?  Seriously though, I better not be being lied to! Now I want to drive all the way back to the bird shop tomorrow which is a huge pain as it's not close by.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Just wait and see what they say. If the DNA test says 'female' then obviously this isn't a six month old male. There are other factors that can influence the face color so it's not impossible that the bird is as young as they say, but I tend to doubt it. They could also be mistaken rather than lying. If the bird is really as young as they say I would worry about it not being fully weaned, because that's VERY young. For comparison, here are a couple cinnamon females who are fledged but not weaned (look at how short their tails are lol). They've got a little yellow color on the face but not nearly as much as your baby.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Here's another young cinnamon girl. Pardon the messed-up crest, her mother likes to feather pick.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2016)

tielfan said:


> Here's another young cinnamon girl. Pardon the messed-up crest, her mother likes to feather pick.



Oh my gosh, wow! That is exactly how I would expect a month and a half old tiel to look like!!!! The weird thing is that one of the grey tiels they had... it had a much shorter crest and that tiel looked waaay younger than the cinnamon and the other grey tiel in same cage which was shown in pic I showed you.

I'm not liking any of this. It doesn't sit right with me. This woman has been around birds her entire life (I think she might be owner of the shop)... so she KNOWS exactly what she is doing if this tiel is not the age she claims it is as she knows better than that.

I am going to call bird shop again tomorrow (this will be my third time calling about my suspicion about the age of that bird or maybe I'll just wait for DNA results first...). I don't like what's going on here... it's weirding me out. The first thing I noticed was that the tiels didn't look like "cute" baby tiels normally do.... which is why I then again asked her the age of the tiel. She then opened a notebook which had notes in it on each tiel. She told me the date of when the eggs were laid. She told me the date of when the tiel opened its eyes first. She told me date of hatching and she told me the tiel was nicknamed "Sugar" by the breeder... all this was in her notes.

Forgot to say that the young looking grey tiel they had was at bottom of the cage sitting inside food dish eating seeds... so he didn't seem to have trouble eating. He had a much tinier crest than the cinnamon and looked like a baby.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2016)

Wait a second! I just found this video of 6 week old tiels and those tiels look like the cinnamon... meaning they look just as "old"???

https://youtu.be/mL6kOzYDpjE

... so perhaps that cinnamon IS really only about 6 or 7 weeks old.... they did say they very recently got weaned.

... and another video of 6 week old tiel... this tiel looks younger than the other in above video with smaller crest:

https://youtu.be/qyN4fk5rGeE


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Babies can have yellowish faces, and it shows up better on cinnamon birds because the grey isn't as dark. Sometimes pictures are deceiving too, so I don't really want to make a definite statement. But that face looks awfully yellow for a 6 week old baby. You can evaluate it better in person. If the true color of these feathers is yellow-gray then it's hen/juvenile coloring with a strong yellow tint. If it's pure bright yellow with no gray we have to suspect adult male coloring. 

The first picture in the first post looks like there's a plain grey spot on the rump in between the wings. If this is really a plain grey feather and not just a shadow, that's a very strong indicator that this is a young male starting to change over to his adult plumage. This is also something that will be easier to evaluate in person. I tried zooming in on the picture and it looked like there were stripes, but I wasn't sure if this was true or if I was seeing the feathers underneath the one that looks plain. I can see lots of striped feathers and mottling on the tail and some spots on the wings, so this is not a full adult male.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The chick in the first video is pied and the second one is lutino, so their face coloring isn't typical of what you'd expect in a 6 week old cinnamon chick. 

Here are some of my normal grey boys who are NOT starting to molt into their adult coloring. You can see that all of them have some degree of yellow on their faces. The one on the right is an especially good example of the yellow-grey look. His face looks quite yellowish, but it's not the bright pure yellow of an adult male.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Here's a good example from http://www.justcockatiels.net/cinnamon.html These are probably show birds so not exactly typical. But you can see that the hen has a fair amount of yellowish color in her face, and how it compares to the yellow coloring of the cock. There are individual variations in how strong the yellow wash is, and this hen looks like she has a fairly strong wash.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2016)

tielfan said:


> Babies can have yellowish faces, and it shows up better on cinnamon birds because the grey isn't as dark. Sometimes pictures are deceiving too, so I don't really want to make a definite statement. But that face looks awfully yellow for a 6 week old baby. You can evaluate it better in person. If the true color of these feathers is yellow-gray then it's hen/juvenile coloring with a strong yellow tint. If it's pure bright yellow with no gray we have to suspect adult male coloring.
> 
> The first picture in the first post looks like there's a plain grey spot on the rump in between the wings. If this is really a plain grey feather and not just a shadow, that's a very strong indicator that this is a young male starting to change over to his adult plumage. This is also something that will be easier to evaluate in person. I tried zooming in on the picture and it looked like there were stripes, but I wasn't sure if this was true or if I was seeing the feathers underneath the one that looks plain. I can see lots of striped feathers and mottling on the tail and some spots on the wings, so this is not a full adult male.



Is this the first pic you are referring to? I enlarged the pic a little. I'm trying to figure what you are referring to when you say "plain grey spot on the rump in between the wings".... do you mean the top part his tail base (the part right between his wings?)... Or the bottom part meaning underneath his tail? I think because he has his cheek feathers fluffed up is also making him look older? Wish I had taken a pic when the feathers weren't fluffed up on the cheeks.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Juliet, I don't think you need to worry so much. Try to relax and wait for the DNA test. If it's a boy, well, who cares if the bird is not two months old, but instead six months old. That's not too old. My Candy was six months old when I got her, and she is the sweetest thing and bonded to me. I think that cinnamon cockatiel is very handsome, and please don't write it off just yet. Honestly, I doubt it that these people would lie to you and sell you a bird that is a few years old or something. As long as the tiel is under a year old, it should be all good.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2016)

eduardo said:


> Juliet, I don't think you need to worry so much. Try to relax and wait for the DNA test. If it's a boy, well, who cares if the bird is not two months old, but instead six months old. That's not too old. My Candy was six months old when I got her, and she is the sweetest thing and bonded to me. I think that cinnamon cockatiel is very handsome, and please don't write it off just yet. Honestly, I doubt it that these people would lie to you and sell you a bird that is a few years old or something. As long as the tiel is under a year old, it should be all good.


I got my tiel from these same people almost 4 yrs ago and regularly go back to them very often as I get my tiel's nails trimmed there. I don't see reason why they would lie to me... if anything... maybe the breeder lied to them? ... but that doesn't make sense either... why would someone lie about a young bird? As a 6 months old tiel is no less desirable than a 6 week old??

I'm going to chill out and wait for the DNA results. If the bird turns out to be a male then I'll take him home... I'm going to take close up pics of him the next time I see him and the other tiels (if the other tiels are still there).... cuz this is bizarre! =( 

I wish I was more knowledgable about sexing birds when they are so young... then I would have been able to better properly determine these things as pics can be deceiving. 

I await the DNA results....


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I meant the dark-looking spot right between the wings, not the part under the tail. 

As Eduardo said, the age doesn't matter that much. We know for sure that this bird isn't a full adult male because it still has a lot of hen/juvenile markings. In some ways a 6 month old bird is more desirable than a 6 week old. You'll know for sure that a 6 month old bird is solidly weaned, and they're less skittish and flighty than a 6 week old. It's a lot more important to be confident that it's healthy (and it looks like it is), and to know how tame it is.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

As someone who is diagnosed with OCD and anxiety disorder, I can tell you how many times I worried for nothing. Sometimes, the more you analyze something, the more you "see" what is not there.
Not saying you have anxiety LOL, but I am just saying, relax. Everything will be all right :thumbu:
This should be a joyous time for you and Rascal; enjoy it!


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## Schubird (Jun 12, 2015)

Here's three pictures of my cinnamon male. The first was the picture the breeder sent me at a little before 2 months old. The second is the day I got him at 3 months old, and the third is Schubert today at just over 10 months.

When I first got Schubert, he made NO noise. At all. A chirp here or there, once every few days, and now he sings all day and doesn't stop! Note how yellow his face has been as a cinnamon since he was young. I don't think you need to worry about face color, different mutations have different qualifying points. Wait for the DNA test. As for age, your bird looks pretty young to me. It's a little floofed up which might be hiding it's younger appearance.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2016)

Schubird said:


> Here's three pictures of my cinnamon male. The first was the picture the breeder sent me at a little before 2 months old. The second is the day I got him at 3 months old, and the third is Schubert today at just over 10 months.
> 
> When I first got Schubert, he made NO noise. At all. A chirp here or there, once every few days, and now he sings all day and doesn't stop! Note how yellow his face has been as a cinnamon since he was young. I don't think you need to worry about face color, different mutations have different qualifying points. Wait for the DNA test. As for age, your bird looks pretty young to me. It's a little floofed up which might be hiding it's younger appearance.


Thanks for the pics... you have a beautiful cinnamon  My tiel is a male and is SUPER quiet and hardly ever sings... I'm curious to see how the new tiel will be.... and then how they will be together....


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2016)

eduardo said:


> As someone who is diagnosed with OCD and anxiety disorder, I can tell you how many times I worried for nothing. Sometimes, the more you analyze something, the more you "see" what is not there.
> Not saying you have anxiety LOL, but I am just saying, relax. Everything will be all right :thumbu:
> This should be a joyous time for you and Rascal; enjoy it!


No worries, I know what you mean. I'm excited to get my tiel...no matter how old he is  I'm just very curious to know if the tiels were already weaned when they got them from the breeder... or if they weaned the tiels themselves after they got them from the breeder. I will find out after I get DNA results... I'm not calling them again... I already them them 3 times about this tiel's age... they going to think I'm nuts if I keep calling about same issue.... so I just sit and wait the DNA results now 

If I wasn't worried about female tiel laying eggs then I wouldn't mind having a female... I doubt it would be possible to have female tiel sleep inside fish tank with my tiel as that would be too much like a nest.... and when I leave town my tiel is kept inside incubator at the vet... which maybe can also resemble a nest?


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

It's normal for pet shops to lie... I was told that Henry was 3 months old when obviously he was _at the very least_ 1 year old with entirely full adult plumage.

The cinnamon is adorable  definitely looks older than they say though. Still, I hope it's a boy!


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## shaenne (Apr 19, 2014)

Congrats!! Fingers crossed he is a boy for you! I am a complete sucker for cinnamon cockatiels. I cannot resist lol. The light brown is just so freakin' pretty. 

As others have said, don't worry about his age too much. It really doesn't matter tbh. And as tielfan said, at least you know an older baby will be solidly weaned. Nothing worse than taking home a young "weaned" bird and then having it regress on you, especially if you don't really have time to re-wean it.

I am excited to hear and see more of this little gem!!


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

I am so excited for you, Juliet!


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2016)

Check out these ferocious feathered creatures attacking this man's hand like little piranhas... they gang up on the man and attack all his fingers thinking it's food... too funny:

https://youtu.be/FEwb6dLocFA

OMG why do birds have to be so cute.

That video says they are 5-6 weeks old and the cinnamons he has look very similar to the cinnamon tiel I picked out? So maybe the tiel really is only 6 weeks old but just looks older because he has his cheek puffed out in the pictures. I'm not concerned about the tiels age at all and don't mind if he's older... I just like to get to the bottom of things cuz I don't like being lied to!!


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Aw, look at those little dinos, lol!
Yeah, those cinnamons don't look that much different than the one you picked out, at least to my eye.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2016)

eduardo said:


> Aw, look at those little dinos, lol!
> Yeah, those cinnamons don't look that much different than the one you picked out, at least to my eye.


Ya, that's what I'm thinking.... to me it honestly looks exactly same... and that video claims some of those were only 4 weeks old, that's crazy. 

I love the sounds baby tiels make... such weird sounds but oh so cute lol


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## crow (Sep 5, 2015)

Fingers crossed that it is a boy.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2016)

This waiting sucks lol... Last time it only took about 3 or 4 days so maybe I get results sooner!

At least I should be getting a new cage delivered tomorrow I will take pics


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## Jaguar (Jul 11, 2014)

Congrats 

I do think he is older than they are saying. Not only is 6 weeks very young for a 'tiel to be fully weaned, he just doesn't have that 'baby' look to me. My guess is they are just mistaken about the hatch date.

Just to add some photo reference here is Miles (male cinnamon pearl) at 9 weeks.


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

Cockatiels generally ween at 8-10 weeks old. Some wean earlier and some wean later. It really depends on the bird. He doesn't look like a baby but it could be a mere mistake on the dates. I'm hoping he will be a male. Please post pictures of the cage when it's all setup. I'm excited to see it.


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2016)

I don't think he had the "cute baby look" in person either (I'm embarrassed to admit I don't remember because I saw him such short time).... but the grey tiel sitting next to him in the pic looked like a baby and so did the other grey one definitely looked like babies. I don't know... I will have to see the tiel again in person and take more pics when his cheeks aren't so puffed up... because when they do that it always makes them look like a grumpy old man!! One way or the other I will get to the bottom of this... but he's coming home with me if he's a male so no worries.

I'm waiting for the cage it will arrive today... cannot wait to assemble it and I will post pics of the shiny new white mansion


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2016)

Jaguar said:


> Congrats
> 
> I do think he is older than they are saying. Not only is 6 weeks very young for a 'tiel to be fully weaned, he just doesn't have that 'baby' look to me. My guess is they are just mistaken about the hatch date.
> 
> Just to add some photo reference here is Miles (male cinnamon pearl) at 9 weeks.


That definitely looks like a BABY soooo cute! It's so weird because they claim all the tiels I saw there were from the SAME clutch... meaning from same parents?? So it CAN'T be a "mistake" on hatch date... that means someone is LYING! IF indeed that bird is older....


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2016)

Here's a picture of my tiel's real sibling... I took a picture of a cinnamon tiel when I was buying Rascal... and that cinnamon also looks older? Rascal was 8 weeks old when I got him... Rascal look like a little baby... whereas his sibling cinnamon tiel looked older!

EDIT: Nevermind that is a very lousy pic but I don't have anymore of that bird. I almost got that bird instead of Rascal so glad I didn't.... cuz Rascal is perfect for me


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Well you can always drive down to the store and take a few photos of your new bird. Maybe we'll see something different that we don't see in your current picture. Also it's a good chance to bond a little with the newbie.


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2016)

eduardo said:


> Well you can always drive down to the store and take a few photos of your new bird. Maybe we'll see something different that we don't see in your current picture. Also it's a good chance to bond a little with the newbie.


I would totally do that but the bird shop is rather "far" from where I live... it is about a 35 min drive from my house (so I guess it's not that far)... I am tempted to drive back to the shop and buy a new cheap toy or something for Rascal and take more photos of that bird... in fact, I suspect I'm going to do that tomorrow. I must admit I do have just a little anxiety over this lol... going back to the shop will make me feel better... unless I find out that bird is the father 

I only saw the bird for less than a minute to be honest... so I would feel more comfortable seeing it again. I saw Rascal a total of 3 or 4 times before I got him. 

I don't know... it just really bothers me to think someone might be lying to me (not that the bird might be older, that does not bother me).... or maybe I just didn't get a good enough look at the bird and he fluffed his cheeks out to make himself look like an old man in the pictures!


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2016)

I'm not having much luck!! The new cage I ordered is defective... the bars are all bent out of shape!! I tried to bend them and fix them but wasn't able to and the paint on the bars all cracked and chipped off even though I used thin towel to protect it from the pliers... so now I have to wait few more days to get replacement cage. Ah well.


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## nassrah (Feb 27, 2012)

Totally agree with Eduardo Male or female it is a beautiful bird X x Teresa


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2016)

nassrah said:


> Totally agree with Eduardo Male or female it is a beautiful bird X x Teresa


He or she is pretty but I wish he didn't puff his cheeks out... he's causing all sorts of trouble already 

I don't think I'm going to drive back to the bird shop tomorrow it's a waste of time. I'll jump on them once I get DNA results... if he turns out to be male


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Sorry to hear about the cage, what a bummer. I hate when the product is defective
Yeah, if you feel that the drive is too much, then don't.
I would have though, lol. Since I have no self control:rofl:


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2016)

eduardo said:


> Sorry to hear about the cage, what a bummer. I hate when the product is defective
> Yeah, if you feel that the drive is too much, then don't.
> I would have though, lol. Since I have no self control:rofl:


Don't worry... I'm sure I'll find myself driving down there tomorrow morning lol
Lil' Rascal likes road trips anyway so he doesn't mind. I mean, I literally only saw the bird for one minute. I should have stayed longer.... the suspense is killing me... gotta take more pics of that specimen hehe :wacko:


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## shaenne (Apr 19, 2014)

I actually have photos of the cinnamon girl I had back in 2007. I'll see if I can find them


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## shaenne (Apr 19, 2014)

These aren't great pictures because this was in 2007 and the phone camera quality back then was not fantastic lol, but here:

4 weeks:









10 weeks:









I had a lot more but I lost them all.

Also, I know she is cinnamon pied, but this was Zoe at 6 weeks:


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2016)

Thanks for the pics 

Well, Rascal and I are going on a road trip driving back to the bird shop because I'm a psycho and this is mystery is driving me nuts LOL... going to take more photos of that bird!! Man... do I know how to waste time or what.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2016)

OMG, I just got back from the bird shop, I am sooooo glad I went back again. I have good and bad news. The good news is that the bird is indeed about 7 weeks old (hatched on Jan 8th). The bad news is that I am an IDIOT!!!! :blush:

I have to apologize to everyone for my stupidity and for making something out of NOTHING! I REALLY should have gotten a better look at the bird the FIRST time I saw it... because I was then mostly looking at the photos I took afterwards and suddenly realized the bird looked soooo much older... and then it just snowballed... (turns out because it was puffing its cheeks out!).... which made me think I was being "lied" to or something.

Here are pics I just took of this infamous tiel... as you can see... the bird looks totally different now that I got pics of him without his cheeks puffed up whereas before he looked like grumpy old man!! If I had gotten decent pics in the first place none of this nonsense would have happened so I say this whole thing is that bird's fault! J/K :blush:

All 4 tiels in that cage are from the same parents. The breeders are a married elderly couple and I was told these tiels were not hand feed but rather fed by its bird parents and just very recently became weaned (maybe they were also handfed a little). These tiels are not as cute as Rascal was when he was a baby though... they are still very cute of course, but hope you know what I mean.

EDIT: Anyone still think he looks older than 7 weeks? Trust me, in person he looks like a very young baby! Not that it matters his age


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Now he looks more babyish. Were they able to tell you the parents mutations? That might give you a better idea as to gender before the DNA test results.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2016)

roxy culver said:


> Now he looks more babyish. Were they able to tell you the parents mutations? That might give you a better idea as to gender before the DNA test results.


They said the parents are a cinnamon and a lutino... I don't remember if the mother or the father was the lutino....

I was told the breeder they use are very caring with their tiels and you could tell just by the detailed notes they had on each tiel.... when they first opened their eyes etc.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Well, for this baby to be a boy, the mom HAS to be the cinnamon. Otherwise, it's a girl. Cinnamon and lutino are both sexed linked, so to get boys mom has to be a visual of the mutation.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2016)

roxy culver said:


> Well, for this baby to be a boy, the mom HAS to be the cinnamon. Otherwise, it's a girl. Cinnamon and lutino are both sexed linked, so to get boys mom has to be a visual of the mutation.


This is incredibly annoying... why didn't they tell me this... they work in bird shop for many years now they should know this stuff! They only sell birds and nothing else.... it's strictly a bird shop. I just called the shop and now suddenly they say "they don't know what the parents were"... when just the other day I was told what the parents were. I was also shown detailed notes on each tiel. I very much recall being told the parents were cinnamon and lutino but don't remember which parent was what... each time I call someone else answers the phone. I asked them to look at the notes and they said they can't find it... guess I will just have to wait, bummer.

.... but I will get accurate notes if tiel ends up being a male they need to get it together and get me the info because this is ridiculous.... it's disorganized. and I may have thrown $30 out the window unnecessarily.

They said they are getting more tiels in about 2 weeks... so this one doesn't work out I try again


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2016)

roxy culver said:


> Well, for this baby to be a boy, the mom HAS to be the cinnamon. Otherwise, it's a girl. Cinnamon and lutino are both sexed linked, so to get boys mom has to be a visual of the mutation.


So cinnamon and lutino are ALWAYS sex linked? 

So in order to get a male lutino for example... then the mom would have to be a lutino? But if the mom was a cinnamon then the lutino would be female? Is this 100% fail proof?

Trying to get this


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

He definitely looks very young in those pictures. As far as mutations and all, I guess just wait and see. I know it's hard.
I am glad you went to the bird shop though. It gave you a piece of mind on the age.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2016)

eduardo said:


> He definitely looks very young in those pictures. As far as mutations and all, I guess just wait and see. I know it's hard.
> I am glad you went to the bird shop though. It gave you a piece of mind on the age.


Ya it definitely did glad I went  I'm annoyed I don't recall what mutation they said the mother is.... I'm not being very patient waiting for the DNA results lol... guess I'm impatient.... 3 or 4 more days


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

Juliet said:


> So cinnamon and lutino are ALWAYS sex linked?
> 
> So in order to get a male lutino for example... then the mom would have to be a lutino? But if the mom was a cinnamon then the lutino would be female? Is this 100% fail proof?
> 
> Trying to get this


If mom is not a lutino then any and all lutino babies she has means the dad is either a lutino or split for it and everyone of those babies would be female. I am assuming cinnamon works the same.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Oh my goodness, I am totally confused with the genetics here:wacko::lol:


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

For me, the best part of getting a baby cockatiel was waiting to see what they turn out to be though. Actually, I knew Candy was a girl because she was already six months old when we got her. With Tony, we didn't know. We just brought him home and waited to see what it "turns out" to be, lol. But I understand, you definitely don't want a female, so you'll just have to wait for that DNA test.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> So cinnamon and lutino are ALWAYS sex linked?
> 
> So in order to get a male lutino for example... then the mom would have to be a lutino? But if the mom was a cinnamon then the lutino would be female? Is this 100% fail proof?
> 
> Trying to get this





> If mom is not a lutino then any and all lutino babies she has means the dad is either a lutino or split for it and everyone of those babies would be female. I am assuming cinnamon works the same.
> Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote


YES. And pearl is the same as well. All three are sex-linked mutations (there are a couple others but these are the common three.) Unlike pied, which is just recessive (both parents have to carry the gene to get a visual baby), the sex-linked mutations require one carrier to get a female (i.e. that father, he passes that gene on to all his daughters if he's a visual, if he's split he gives it to half his daughters) and two genes to get a male (i.e. both parents, the mother being a visual because hens can only be visuals of these mutations, they can't be split to them.)

Also, on the bird shop, not everyone that works there is going to be bird knowledgeable. They may hire high school kids who know nothing. I never trust a bird shop when it comes to bird care, because half the time they're wrong. Even the two shops that I really liked in San Diego and got most of my birds from, they were clueless when it came to asking them specific questions. They only know how to care for the birds in the store, they may not know any more than that. Especially when it comes to little birds like tiels.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Yes, he looks a lot younger in these pictures. 

Cinnamon, lutino and pearl are always sex-linked, and the mother MUST be visual to get a son who is visual for the mutation. BUT lutino can mask other mutations, and if mother was cinnamon lutino rather than plain lutino, not everyone would be aware that she had the cinnamon mutation. The cinnamon is usually visible on a cinnamon lutino but it's subtle and not everyone knows the signs. There's no guarantee that the shop owners are experts on mutations or that they understand the genetics of sex-linked mutations - it's a complicated subject. Knowing how to raise babies successfully is a different skill than knowing how genetics works, and people can be good at one without knowing anything about the other.

Parent-raised babies tend to wean earlier than handfed babies because the parents aren't as generous with the food as we humans are lol. In the wild it helps improve survival if the babies become independent as early as possible. It's totally possible for a parent-fed baby to be weaned at 6-7 weeks but much less common for a handfed baby to wean that early.

What this means for you though is that he isn't pre-trained to see human hands as a source of food. So it's good that you're not taking him home right away. The more solidly weaned he is, the less likely that you'll have trouble with him regressing once you get him home. With a handfed baby that needs a little help, you can hold food in your hand and he'll probably eat it. This probably won't work with a parent-fed baby because he doesn't know that hands=food.


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## Guest (Feb 29, 2016)

This whole gender sex-linked mutations is too confusing lol..

If this tiel turns out to be female I will definitely be getting info on the parent birds next time and then I will post here the info to see what you guys think the gender is... the shop owner (who is the lady I saw when I first saw this tiel) did tell me and showed me the booklet info on the tiel with specific notes on each tiel but I forgot what the mom tiel was.  

DNA results should be in today, tomorrow or next day... cannot imagine it taking any longer.


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

I can't wait. What is your gut feeling on the sex?


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## Guest (Feb 29, 2016)

Haimovfids said:


> I can't wait. What is your gut feeling on the sex?


I feel like it will be a female... but for no other particular reason than I'm being a pessimist and hopefully I am wrong 

If they don't call me tomorrow morning then I'm calling them because it's been an entire week (it didn't take nearly this long last time I had Rascal DNA tested)... plus they didn't bother to call me at all when they promised they would call me when they have tiels! I had to call them.


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

Hehehe. That's funny. I can imagine negative thoughts coming in when you are waiting so long for something that will either be really good news or not being able to get the good news. *takes a deep breath* *exhales deep breath* Try to take it easy. If it's not a male, whoops. You'll just find another one. If it is, yay. I'm actually really excited to know the results myself. I have my guess in my head and won't say it until to results come.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2016)

Haimovfids said:


> Hehehe. That's funny. I can imagine negative thoughts coming in when you are waiting so long for something that will either be really good news or not being able to get the good news. *takes a deep breath* *exhales deep breath* Try to take it easy. If it's not a male, whoops. You'll just find another one. If it is, yay. I'm actually really excited to know the results myself. I have my guess in my head and won't say it until to results come.


Hey... that's cheating! J/K 

I realize now I am not a patient person lol


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## Dylan&Gracie (Nov 21, 2014)

Obviously it varies with the individual, but I find my female has a much better temperament than my male. She's super cuddly, affectionate, and SO much quieter than my male it's almost like she' an entirely different sort of bird.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2016)

Dylan&Gracie said:


> Obviously it varies with the individual, but I find my female has a much better temperament than my male. She's super cuddly, affectionate, and SO much quieter than my male it's almost like she' an entirely different sort of bird.



My male tiel is EXTREMELY super quiet (he does not sing often at all) and is super cuddley (I got lucky with this bird)... guess each bird is unique  ... except he will bite crap out of my hand sometimes for no reason lol.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2016)

Need fast help!

Not good!!!l just called the bird shop and they say there is a problem.... it appears the stupid lab didn't even receive their DNA test "stuff" they sent them! Ridiculous... so now the shop need to do it all over again! 

They are currenlty looking up what the parents of this tiel are and told me to call them back in 20 minutes... are you guys 100% POSITIVE if the mom tiel is a cinnamon then that means this cinnamon tiel I'm wanting will be a MALE????

I really do NOT want to have to wait yet entire week!!... if you guys are 100000% positive this means the tiel is a male (if his mom his a cinnamon) then I'll bring him home but not if that method of determining gender is not 100% accurate???

EDIT: If it turns out this tiel's mom is a lutino then I will tell them to CANCEL the DNA testing because then that means the tiel I have on hold is a female for certain? Geez... what an annoying mess.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Oh my goodness, this is getting so complicated! You must be so tired of everything and I wouldn't blame you...
No clue on the mutation question though, I am sure others will give you better opinion on that.
I do agree - my female is so much more even with her temperament than my male. But I know you don't want a female, so...


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2016)

Bird shop just told me the mother of this tiel is a LUTINO and the father is a cinnamon. This woman said just because the mother is a lutino it is not a guarantee that tiel is a female and then starts telling me just because her father had blonde hair doesn't mean she has blonde hair... I then told her we are talking about breeding BIRDS not humans!!! She told me just because the dad tiel is a cinnamon and mom tiel is a lutino... they STILL do not know the genetics... ??? Confused.

I told them to go ahead and run the DNA test if the lab receievd it... if not then the **** with it.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2016)

Bad news, sad 

The shop just called me back... the woman told me that the lab did not get their sample but she spoke with her husband who is supposedly very knowledgeable and she now says it very much looks like that tiel will be a female.... so she changed her story.

She told me she does not recommend to re-submit the DNA test because more likely than not... that tiel is a female... she will refund me the $30.... but I think they also charged me for the tiel. I will have to double check on my bank statement!

She said the next batch of tiels they are getting are all lutino.... which I do not want.

So this tiel didn't work out  I was really looking forward to bringing a tiel home now I have to go through this nonsense again elsewhere... but where....

I am having trouble finding a cinnamon tiel to get...


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Aw, that's a shame...
It sounds like the shop got tired of the whole thing too. No reason to be rude to you though. Maybe you're better off getting your cockatiel from someplace else then.
There must be someone close to you who breeds cockatiels... Where are you located?


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

If dad is cinnamon and mom is not then the chick is a hen, sorry it didn't work out, but next time...


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2016)

Yeah it's a bummer I was really looking forward to bringing tiel home 

I live in Palm Beach, Florida... I already contacted 2 other places few minutes ago.... one place charges $179 for a normal grey tiel (crazy!) and they didn't have any cinnamons and the other place also doesn't have cinnamons but the expensive place has LOTS of greys.

Now I suddenly have my heart set on getting a cinnamon... I don't know where it get a second tiel.... it seem it's harder to get cinnamons??

I must say I didn't expect the lab to NOT get their DNA sample... I swear that tiel is cursed! First the whole "age thing" and now the "DNA sample gets lost???" I still was dying of curiosity what gender that tiel is but it seems it is 99.999% sure it's a female. Rascal is not happy... he is asking me where is his brother! :wacko:

The shop told me they cannot even ask the breeder if his mom was partial cinnamon... because they won't know.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2016)

Maybe I should just get another normal grey tiel... but won't it be difficult to tell them apart then??

I'm not focused on looks to be honest and really love the normal greys just as mother nature made them (which is why I'm not in love with lutinos)... I would love to get a cinnamon but it seems they are too hard to find or something?.... and if I get a normal grey that would be much easier as one of the places I just called has normal greys just weaned....


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

I don't think you would have trouble telling them apart. I mean, you know Rascal's every feather. A mom with twin kids can always tell her kids apart, lol.
I think you should at least go and visit that other place with a bunch of greys.
What was that old shop gonna charge you for the cockatiel?


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

PLus, that expensive place with lots of tiels - you can really take your time and observe the birds, and then pick the one that you have a good feel about.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2016)

The shop charged me $69 for the cinnamon that didn't work out and then $30 for DNA test 

The expensive place that charges $179 for normal greys is at least an entire hour drive from where I live so I would be driving 2 hours back and forth! 

I emailed another place which is closer and hopefully more reasonably priced... hopefully they respond soon... last resort will be driving to the expensive place that's so far away.... but it's INSANELY expensive what they are charging =( They said they charge so much bcause the tiels are handfed... that makes no sense... Rascal was handfed and super tame and was only $40 bucks... lol... poor Rascal.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2016)

... but now I have my heart set on getting a cinnamon... plus the name "Coconut" suits a cinnamon better than a normal


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## Dislian (Sep 5, 2015)

I've read all the posts to see how it went with the tiel and I'm sorry to hear that it was a female! As they said, if the father is cinnamon, the baby will be a girl. It's sex linked... it was beautiful tough! 

Here in Spain is easy to find cinnamon and normal Grey. 

Did the closest shop answer?


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

Juliet said:


> The shop told me they cannot even ask the breeder if his mom was partial cinnamon... because they won't know.


Yes they would know (if they know anything about how it works) and the answer is no, mom cannot even be part (split) for cinnamon. With sex linked mutations females either are a visual or they are not at all, they cannot be split. So the hen cannot be carrying it and pass it on unless she is cinnamon herself same with lutino, a male can be split and not show it and pass it on to his offspring, however if Mom is not visual then she has no lutino in her at all! From what has been said on this thread pearl works the same way also.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2016)

... so it seems that tiel was definitely a female and that women didn't know what she as talking about, go figure.

Normal greys (even though Rascal is not a normal grey he has a little pied in him) but he looks like a normal grey asides from white spots on his head.. it's still my favorite mutation... but I think it would be much funner to have the second tiel be of different coloring than him.... I would love to get a cinnamon.... but the closer shop does not have any cinnamons I got on phone with them 

Shoot.... where to get a cinnamon tiel... I would try recuse but I'm more worried about bird diseases when getting birds from rescues.... I'm sure that doesn't make sense though.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Yikes, $200 to buy a bird and drive a few hours... There must be something closer.
Mine were both close to $100. (Candy was about $70 and Tony was $99.) I am not sure I would pay more than $150 per bird, so I understand.
There are lots of other mutations that are also pretty. I have always like "dirty face" pied . You will find that special bird, just keep looking.
The hardest thing is to find a male (DNA tests and all), since your heart is set on a boy.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2016)

I just emailed several of the breeders (12 different breeders to be exact!) shown here but not all of the ones I emailed said they have tiels but most did: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/bradf.htm

One of those breeders HAS to have cinnamons! If not, then I'm really not having luck. Now I just sit back and wait... did I just say "wait"????? What? No LOL... Not again!!!!


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2016)

Dislian said:


> I've read all the posts to see how it went with the tiel and I'm sorry to hear that it was a female! As they said, if the father is cinnamon, the baby will be a girl. It's sex linked... it was beautiful tough!
> 
> Here in Spain is easy to find cinnamon and normal Grey.
> 
> Did the closest shop answer?



Great, now I'm going to have to move to Spain so I can get a cinnamon tiel. Just emailed tons of breeders... so I'm heading to Spain if none of these breeders have any cinnamons


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

To be continued :excited::lol:
Are these breeders close to you?
And would you consider any other mutation if not cinnamon?


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2016)

eduardo said:


> To be continued :excited::lol:
> Are these breeders close to you?
> And would you consider any other mutation if not cinnamon?


Most of the ones I just emailed are relatively close... less than one hour drive and some very local. My first choice is a cinnamon... second choice would be a pied tiel. One of the local breeders has pied tiels but no cinnamon... I'll check out some local ones since it's a shorter drive 

... the more I think about it I really don't want a normal grey because it's too similar to Rascal... it would be nice to have a more different colored one than Rascal. I await responses to my emails I sent out... one replied already who does not breed tiels and referred me to breeder 3 hours away from me. LOL... that's not happening.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Your quest so reminds me of mine - last year when I was looking for a puppy. We have an older maltese/poodle mix, who is pure white in color. Last Spring, we decided to get a puppy, something of similar breed, but different color. I found a beautiful black and white shipoo or something like that, but the deal fell through because the lady was flaky. Anyway, I went through ebay classifieds in my area and came across a yorkie/maltese mix puppy. I was so tired of looking around that I just wanted to get that puppy. They sent me his picture, and it was a miniature version of my older dog, lol. A little white ball of fur, looking almost exactly like Eddie, my senior dog.
So, what do you do? We went to see him, and took him home. Best dog ever. It was meant to be.
Now we have Eddie, and his mini-me, Gizmo, lol.


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

That was my guess. I had a feeling it would of been a female at the start. I'm wondering why you won't get a hen. What's wrong with hens?


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

Haimovfids said:


> That was my guess. I had a feeling it would of been a female at the start. I'm wondering why you won't get a hen. What's wrong with hens?


I already mentioned why male tiel works best in my situation in this thread which has gotten way too loooooooooong ... my tiel must sleep in a fish tank next to me at night for the rest of his life due to chronic night frights which nearly killed him (I don't want to get into discussion about night frights, trust me, EVERYTHING had been tried and this solution has worked MIRACLES and I love it so does my tiel he is totally different bird now at night) and I eventually wanted to try and have the second tiel sleep in the tank with him... I want them to get used to being in an enclosed space during the evening as when I must travel on business and away for few days my tiel is boarded in an incubator at the vet. I feel sorry for my tiel all alone for several days inside an incubator... so Rascal needs to get used to another tiel with him all night without freaking out. If I had a female tiel in there it, no doubt, resembles a nest!??? As my tiel thinks it's a nest.... I can imagine the female tiel would start laying eggs and getting "raped" by Rascal.

I also do not want to deal with my tiel trying to mate with the female or any eggs laying issues (my tiel is a horn dog, always has been). My tiel also loves singing to other birds and would enjoy singing back and forth with another tiel. A male tiel just fits my situation better than a female.

I've had female tiels many yrs ago... I have nothing against female tiels... just have a strong preference towards male tiels (only because I think it's incredibly cute how they sing and bob their heads). When it comes to dogs I have a very strong preference towards female dogs. When it comes to horses (I'm an equestrian) I MUCH prefer male horses. This post has become way too long 

If I wasn't so concerned about egg laying and the enclosed fish tank and encubator space then I would be a lot more open to getting a female tiel. I know the 10 gallon fish tank Rascal sleeps in DEFINITELY resembles a nest... but not sure about the larger incubator at the vet?


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

If you don't want to breed them, just replace their eggs with fake ones if they even lay. You can use long nights (if you aren't for your male) on them both to keep hormones at bay. If you don't want to deal with the egg laying at all whatsoever, then I guess stick with a male.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

Haimovfids said:


> If you don't want to breed them, just replace their eggs with fake ones if they even lay. You can use long nights (if you aren't for your male) on them both to keep hormones at bay. If you don't want to deal with the egg laying at all whatsoever, then I guess stick with a male.


I tried the long night thing with my tiel and it didn't work well... he was getting 12-14hrs sleep for several months.... still a horn dog. Lately I usually go to bed at 8pm or 8:30pm (I go bed early like a grandmother... it gets dark too early this time of year) and get up at 7am so now he's been getting about 10 hrs. The male tiels I had many yrs ago were nothing like my tiel.... he should be castrated or something. He tries to mate with my hand and certain objects inside the kitchen pantry so he no longer allowed in there. :blink:


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## shaenne (Apr 19, 2014)

Cinnamons are pretty common here, too (australia), which is both good and bad for me. Good because I love anything cinnamon, bad because I have no willpower whatsoever and cannot resist a pretty cinnamon type tiel  I even have a couple of empty cages right now.. Which is why my husband has banned me from entering pet stores unsupervised


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> I also do not want to deal with my tiel trying to mate with the female or any eggs laying issues (my tiel is a horn dog, always has been). My tiel also loves singing to other birds and would enjoy singing back and forth with another tiel. A male tiel just fits my situation better than a female.


Just a heads up, two male tiels will mate with each other too. I had two like that back in Cali. No eggs, but there was still mating.

Anyways, cinnamon was pretty common in Cali as well. There is a breeder I know of in FL, I got my mom's pearl from her (ended up being a boy when I had wanted to get her a girl and I thought pearl would be a sure thing lol) so if none of those work out let me know. I'll see if I can still find her info. Honestly, I found her on ebayclassifieds.

Another bit of advice. If you really, really want something, it's worth the drive. No joke, I drove 7 hours both ways for my husky because no one in the state of WA had a black and white, blue eyed female puppy available. And I got some pretty snarky remarks for wanting a female in the first place. After some advice from a friend, I widened my search and found my girl. The best 14 hours I've ever spent, was spent going to get her. She's totally worth it. If I ever came across another tiel that looked like my Cinnamon, I'd make that drive too.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Juliet said:


> My male tiel is EXTREMELY super quiet (he does not sing often at all) and is super cuddley (I got lucky with this bird)... guess each bird is unique


Yes, they have their own personality.  My boy is super cuddly too: he is so cuddly that he even asks for cuddles while protesting, periodically lowering his head for cuddles, then raising it again when he remembers that he was actually protesting, but quiet... I wish!


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## shaenne (Apr 19, 2014)

I definitely agree with Roxy in saying that if you really want something, it's worth the drive. I drove 2 hours round trip to pick up my chocolate lab when he was a puppy, I drove 6 hours round trip to pick up my eclectus and when I was looking for a whiteface cinnamon pearl cockatiel, I was an inch from driving 7-8 hours round trip to get one. I just happened to get lucky and my favourite breeder in town here had a couple of new clutches with WF cinnamon pieds and pearls in them.

I would go check out the expensive place. Check out their set up and how their birds are raised. $179 is pretty expensive for normal grey babies, hand raised or not, so I would expect their set up to be top notch.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Just to clarify, if the mother is NOT cinnamon then her cinnamon baby can NOT be a boy. A cinnamon mother is required to get a cinnamon boy. You can be sure that all the cinnamon chicks with a non-cinnamon mother are girls. This particular baby did not have a cinnamon mother so we know its sex without having a DNA test. But if mom IS cinnamon, the chick could be either sex and you'll need a DNA test to be sure of the gender.

I have two cinnamon males (Vlad and Azazel). No one ever told me anything about their parents, but I know that both of them had cinnamon mothers. Because there's no other way that a boy can have cinnamon coloring.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Would you consider adopting an older bird who needs a new home? There are always birds looking for new homes on craigslist and some of them are sweet and tame. It would be a lot easier to identify the sex of an adult cinnamon bird.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

tielfan said:


> Would you consider adopting an older bird who needs a new home? There are always birds looking for new homes on craigslist and some of them are sweet and tame. It would be a lot easier to identify the sex of an adult cinnamon bird.


I just searched for "cockatiel" on craigslist's search box because I don't see a section under FOR SALE for PETS? I must be an idiot because I don't see what category pets for sale would be under? :blush:

I only found one listing that is local to me being this one: http://treasure.craigslist.org/pet/5469898350.html

That looks like a very cute bird but he looks exactly like Rascal! ... and he has lots of toys... if I rescue one I want to rescue one who was kept in tiny cage, no toys etc... you know what I mean.... one who seriously needs to be rescued from horrible owners... that owner also seems to be cautious who they want to allow to adopt their bird... I'll keep an eye on that posting though.... that cage he's kept in actually looks way too tiny but I was hoping to not get another bird that looks like Rascal....

... I don't know if getting a baby tiel or a grown tiel is best in my situation or if it even matters.... I recall many yrs ago i had an awesome male tiel... but got him another tiel that was at least a year old.... and they never bonded and the new tiel never flocked called if I had my first tiel way from him on my shoulder... and that was definitely a good thing.... so maybe getting an adult tiel is best to increase chances of new tiel not bonding with Rascal so much? On other hand... I would love it if they bonded with each other.

I tend to overthink things too much lol


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

tielfan said:


> Just to clarify, if the mother is NOT cinnamon then her cinnamon baby can NOT be a boy. A cinnamon mother is required to get a cinnamon boy. You can be sure that all the cinnamon chicks with a non-cinnamon mother are girls. This particular baby did not have a cinnamon mother so we know its sex without having a DNA test. But if mom IS cinnamon, the chick could be either sex and you'll need a DNA test to be sure of the gender.
> 
> I have two cinnamon males (Vlad and Azazel). No one ever told me anything about their parents, but I know that both of them had cinnamon mothers. Because there's no other way that a boy can have cinnamon coloring.


Thanks so much for the info.... this is very good info to know as to not waste money on DNA testing a cinnamon tiel if its mom is not a cinnamon! IF someone wants a male that is.

.... so in order to get a cinnamon baby the parents must either BOTH be cinnamon or one parents must be lutino and one parent must be cinnamon? In other words... those combined mutations are the ONLY mutations that can produce cinnamon babies?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> .... so in order to get a cinnamon baby the parents must either BOTH be cinnamon or one parents must be lutino and one parent must be cinnamon? In other words... those combined mutations are the ONLY mutations that can produce cinnamon babies?


No. Lutino has NOTHING to do with cinnamon. To get a cinnamon baby, the dad has to be carrying the gene (either be a visual or split to it, like Rascal is split to pied). To get boys, mom has to be a visual cinnamon, otherwise all cinnamon babies would be girls. Lutino acts the same way but the two don't have an effect on the other in the sense of what makes a bird visual. 

Craigslist does not allow selling of pets. They only allow rehomings and you have to word the add very carefully otherwise it gets reported and pulled down. Try ebayclassifieds, that's where I found both my dogs and my tiel breeder in Seattle.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

roxy culver said:


> No. Lutino has NOTHING to do with cinnamon. To get a cinnamon baby, the dad has to be carrying the gene (either be a visual or split to it, like Rascal is split to pied). To get boys, mom has to be a visual cinnamon, otherwise all cinnamon babies would be girls. Lutino acts the same way but the two don't have an effect on the other in the sense of what makes a bird visual.
> 
> Craigslist does not allow selling of pets. They only allow rehomings and you have to word the add very carefully otherwise it gets reported and pulled down. Try ebayclassifieds, that's where I found both my dogs and my tiel breeder in Seattle.


EDIT: Sorry I just misread your post and had to edit what I just wrote... I'm understanding it better now  Thanks.

I'm going to checkout ebayclassifieds...


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

I just tried ebayclassifieds and that site is not cooperating... I told it to search within 75 miles of my zip code (33458) yet it is showing many listings that are hundreds of miles away!

http://portstlucie.ebayclassifieds....97&lng=-80.10935699999999&radius=LESS_THAN_75

I was unsuccessful in finding anything at all there


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Is this too far from you?
http://miami.ebayclassifieds.com/birds/miami/creamface-cockatiels-split-to-fallow/?ad=43381383


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Personally, I would make inquiries into "Harry the cockatiel". He looks and sounds like a great bird. So what if he looks like Rascal. You can't have everything perfect.


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

Juliet said:


> Thanks so much for the info.... this is very good info to know as to not waste money on DNA testing a cinnamon tiel if its mom is not a cinnamon! IF someone wants a male that is.
> 
> .... so in order to get a cinnamon baby the parents must either BOTH be cinnamon or one parents must be lutino and one parent must be cinnamon? In other words... those combined mutations are the ONLY mutations that can produce cinnamon babies?


I'm sorry I confused you with with lutino, I don't know how to explain it to you, I was just pointing out it works the same way but wasn't saying it was involved in any way with the making of a cinnamon chick.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> .... so in order to get a cinnamon baby the parents must either BOTH be cinnamon or one parents must be lutino and one parent must be cinnamon? In other words... those combined mutations are the ONLY mutations that can produce cinnamon babies?


To get a cinnamon chick, the father must have the cinnamon gene. He can be either visual or split to it. If dad doesn't have the gene there will be no cinnamon chicks at all. Girls get sex-linked genes only from their father - it doesn't pass from mother to daughter at all so for girls it doesn't matter what mom looks like. If a girl gets the gene from dad she'll be visual cinnamon. 

But boys have to get the gene from both parents to be visual. Dad can be either visual or split. Hens can't be split though - if they have the gene at all they'll be visual for the mutation, and if they're not visual it means they don't have the gene. So mom has to be visual cinnamon in order to have a cinnamon gene that she can pass to her sons. 

The reason for this complicated mess is that sex-linked mutations are carried on the X chromosome. Boys are XX and girls are XY - the opposite of humans. Boys have two X's so they need two copies of the gene to be visual. Girls have only one X and there's nothing to oppose it on the Y, so they only need one copy of the gene. Girls get their X chromosome from dad and their Y chromosome from mom, and that's why sex-linked genes can't be passed from mother to daughter. The gene is on the X and girls don't get an X from their mother.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

OMG! I got reply from "local" bird shop who is about 40 min drive away (35 miles)... they said:

"We have a cinnamon male available for $150.00 its a year old and super friendly and will sit right on your finger or shoulder. if you have any questions please feel free to contact the store"

I'm going to check out that cinnamon! 

I'll also check out that bird Harry from craigslist... 

So far only one person in that huge list of breeders I emailed replied and they didn't have any tiels.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

eduardo said:


> Is this too far from you?
> http://miami.ebayclassifieds.com/birds/miami/creamface-cockatiels-split-to-fallow/?ad=43381383


Unfortunately Miami is a very looong drive it's 2 hrs to get there and 2 hours back 

.... I occasionally go to Miami but try to avoid it because the driving conditions there are CRAZY... really dangerous the way the road on the highway is built and people drive like idiots there major traffic. Miami is not off the list but it's a last resort.


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## 3LoveSkyeTiel (Feb 23, 2016)

Wow what a beauty you got there! I hope it is a girl! That's just because my Chicken Tiel is a girl and i love her to death, what a snuggle bug! Congrats!

~Skye


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

Annoyed! Turns out that cinnamon male they have is a white face. I absolutely am not interested in a white face. No offense to anyone but I think it's a huge shame they would breed out the beautiful orange distinctive circles on tiels face.... their natural look just how mother nature made them is already incredibly beautiful I wish people would breed for HEALTH rather than for looks and deliberately wiping out the gorgeous orange marking on a tiels face... I just don't get it.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

Does Harry's crop possibly look "swollen" to you or are his feathers just fluffed up in a weird way? I've been looking at my tiel but his crop isn't like that...
http://treasure.craigslist.org/pet/5469898350.html

I contacted the owner of Harry (asked him questions also showed him videos/pic of Rascal) and if he replies I plan to take a look at that tiel with Rascal...


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

Juliet said:


> Does Harry's crop possibly look "swollen" to you or are his feathers just fluffed up in a weird way? I've been looking at my tiel but his crop isn't like that...
> http://treasure.craigslist.org/pet/5469898350.html


When I looked at it earlier I thought it looked odd. But to me it does not look like the crop, it looks like it s further down on his chest... It sticks out in an odd way.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

ParrotletsRock said:


> When I looked at it earlier I thought it looked odd. But to me it does not look like the crop, it looks like it s further down on his chest... It sticks out in an odd way.


I would be lying if I said that doesn't concern me... I am too worried about bird diseases. I contacted that guy and waiting for him to respond and if he responds I am then going to ask him about this issue... I will need to see other pics of this bird because something doesn't look right with his crop and I don't know what it could be if it's not his feathers fluffed up in weird way?? It's like that in every single picture and there are several of this bird....


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

Can't take it anymore... I plan to drive down to that bird shop tomorrow that has that white face cinnamon... sure they are pretty but I really prefer more natural boring tiel (I can't imagine having a tiel without those orange spots on the cheeks poeple always compliment Rascal saying how beautiful his face his because of it)... that shop said they have many other tiels there.... maybe I will finally pick the correct one or I will get picked? Too worried that Harry might has some contagious infection or something... that crop doesn't look right to me at all.

... wouldn't it be ironic if I contradict myself and end up getting that white face cinnamon? OMG. :blush:


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

I also,would be concerned... He looks good otherwise but that chest just looks strange to me and yes I don't think it is the angle or lighting, it is in every picture.
I have a whiteface male and I have to say even tho I love the bright orange cheeks on normals there is something very striking about a whiteface! I also have a whiteface lutino hen who is his younger sister.
In this pic he is just getting his whiteface so has a few gray freckles..


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Harry does look a bit odd with that "lump" on his chest, poor guy. Not sure what that is, if anything.
I am with you on the orange cheeks, I love them. However, white face cinnamon, c'mon it must be beautiful 
Where is the shop you're talking about?


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Ok, never mind, I just saw your post about the shop being close by.
I would be driving there right now :lol:


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

eduardo said:


> Ok, never mind, I just saw your post about the shop being close by.
> I would be driving there right now :lol:


Don't worry... I'm taking Rascal with me and we're driving there tomorrow morning 10am lol... the rush hour traffic is a nightmare and I avoid it at all costs I should have gone earlier today.

I feel sorry for Harry. If the owner doesn't respond about my message to him then I'll ask him about the bird's enlarged front area and politely tell him it looks concerning and maybe he should have a vet check over Harry... he appears to be kept in tiny cage... I actually have a spare cage... a huge one (my old brown one that I swapped for a white one... both are size of a mansion!)... I could see if that cage can be donated to Harry or something because I can't adopt him with that "condition" he has or MIGHT have whatever it is I'm too worried for my tiel.... maybe it's some bacterial infection that can spread to other birds.... it's weird how he has that lump in every single pic! Luckily they are super close to where I live in the same town only few min drive so it would be easy to donate the cage to whoever takes Harry.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Juliet said:


> Don't worry... I'm taking Rascal with me and we're driving there tomorrow morning 10am lol... the rush hour traffic is a nightmare and I avoid it at all costs I should have gone earlier today.
> 
> I feel sorry for Harry. If the owner doesn't respond about my message to him then I'll ask him about the bird's enlarged front area and politely tell him it looks concerning and maybe he should have a vet check over Harry... he appears to be kept in tiny cage... I actually have a spare cage... a huge one (my old brown one that I swapped for a white one... both are size of a mansion!)... I could see if that cage can be donated to Harry or something because I can't adopt him with that "condition" he has or MIGHT have whatever it is I'm too worried for my tiel.... maybe it's some bacterial infection that can spread to other birds.... it's weird how he has that lump in every single pic! Luckily they are super close to where I live in the same town only few min drive so it would be easy to donate the cage to whoever takes Harry.


That's really nice of you. 
And who knows, maybe Harry is completely healthy and the picture is just weird.
Who knows...
I hope everything goes well tomorrow though. I am sure you're so tired of this chase.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

eduardo said:


> That's really nice of you.
> And who knows, maybe Harry is completely healthy and the picture is just weird.
> Who knows...
> I hope everything goes well tomorrow though. I am sure you're so tired of this chase.


... and I should know from the recent fiasco where I thought the cinnamon tiel baby was much older because he was puffing his cheeks up in the photos! ... photos can be too deceiving  

I can't wait to check out all the tiels tomorrow morning at that shop (I will take pictures)... white face tiels look really cool but the orange cheeks are so endearing I can't imagine getting a tiel without them it wouldn't be the same =(


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

What I'd be worried about with Harry is that he might have a tumor in his chest. I don't know of any contagious disease that would make a bird look like that, but a tumor could do it.

This is the time of year when the supply of baby cockatiels is at its lowest ebb. But within three months there'll be a lot more of them. A lot of the parent birds start getting the urge to breed in January-February and it takes roughly three months for the babies to be ready for new homes (about three weeks in the egg and 8-10 weeks from hatch to weaning). So if you can't find a bird you like right now, just wait a couple of months and there should be a lot of new chicks coming on the market.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

ParrotletsRock said:


> When I looked at it earlier I thought it looked odd. But to me it does not look like the crop, it looks like it s further down on his chest... It sticks out in an odd way.


Yes, it is definitely further down. It could just be a simple swelling, but it could also be more serious, like a tumour.
Hopefully the owner will get back to you ASAP. Harry is a nice guy! Oops, I have just noticed that the owner says he is in perfect health. Surely he/she will address your concerns if he/she is so sure?


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

Yikes!! That doesn't sound good at all, poor Harry. I'll update you on what the owner says if he responds. I'm going to check out that bird shop tomorrow but it's more likely I'm going to have to be patient and wait a couple months... then hopefully I can get a weaned cinnamon. At least now I'll know the mom bird MUST be a cinnamon in order to have a chnace at getting the male I want


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## sagealbright (Sep 12, 2015)

I hope you find one tomorrow! I have been wanting to get a friend for my boy Lorenzo but my boyfriend is completely against it. Apparently a dog, a cat, and one bird is enough... :blink:


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

More possible reasons for a swollen chest here:
http://talkbudgies.com/your-budgies-health/77043-what-does-swollen-enlarged-breast-mean.html


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

It could be a lipoma, which is a fatty type tumour from poor nutrition, this is one of my budgies, he is a little fatty and has a bit of a large chest, but it does not stick out the same way that tiels chest does..


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

My first thought when I see those pictures of Harry is a tumor.. Poor guy 

I hope you find the perfect 'tiel for you and Rascal.  No doubt there's a little guy waiting for you somewhere.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I'd also like to add that taking Rascal to meet potential birds is not a good idea, especially if you don't know the people who have the birds. It can get him sick if the bird has something the owners aren't aware of. Hopefully tomorrow works out for you!!


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

roxy culver said:


> I'd also like to add that taking Rascal to meet potential birds is not a good idea, especially if you don't know the people who have the birds. It can get him sick if the bird has something the owners aren't aware of. Hopefully tomorrow works out for you!!


Good point, I realized that after I posted I would bring Rascal with me to see Harry... but that is bad idea.

The owner of Harry still has not replied! I'll give him one or 2 more days before I contact him again but this time about the enlarged lump on the bird and if he is interested in having me donate my spare large cage I don't want anymore to Harry I have maybe that will get a reply from him (because that cage he currently has is far too tiny!! .... something doesn't make sense about this guy... I'm talking about the super tiny cage he's keeping that tiel in and it appears that is his main cage). I had sent him message saying I am very interested in adopting Harry... also showed him pics of Rascal, pics of rascal huge mansion cage and all the cute videos I have of Rascal and how Harry would be spoiled rotten... but he has not replied!


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Juliet said:


> Good point, I realized that after I posted I would bring Rascal with me to see Harry... but that is bad idea.
> 
> The owner of Harry still has not replied! I'll give him one or 2 more days before I contact him again but this time about the enlarged lump on the bird and if he is interested in having me donate my spare large cage I don't want anymore to Harry I have maybe that will get a reply from him (because that cage he currently has is far too tiny!! .... something doesn't make sense about this guy... I'm talking about the super tiny cage he's keeping that tiel in and it appears that is his main cage). I had sent him message saying I am very interested in adopting Harry... also showed him pics of Rascal, pics of rascal huge mansion cage and all the cute videos I have of Rascal and how Harry would be spoiled rotten... but he has not replied!


He may have received a dozen emails, so he is not interested any more.
I have found people to be so flaky on Craigslist. Just because we can't see each other, doesn't mean we can do whatever... It always irritates me.
I have tried to sell some of my bird cages on Craigslist, and people are just irritating to deal with.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

^^Same here eduardo. I've always found buyers on there to be unreliable. People on buy, sell, trade sites on fb are more reliable. Half the time craigslists adds are scams. That's why I started using ebayclassifieds. Actual dog show breeders use it to advertise their litters so it can't be half bad.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Yes, that is how I got my puppy. I went on ebay classifieds/pets. Didn't have any issues.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

A big difference between Ebay classifieds and craigslist is that people are allowed to post animal sales on ebay classifieds. Animal sales are prohibited on craigslist but you can advertise that you're rehoming with a fee, so breeders have to play word games if they want to list on craigslist.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Have you looked into Florida Parrot Rescue?


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

Bad news... I just got back from the other bird shop and I was unimpressed with it… it was rather filthy and they had TONS and TONS of birds all types all over the place. Many of the birds also looked sick… several of their grown untame tiels they are selling that are kept in this aviary looked sick, few were completely BALD all over their necks most oddly the entire top of their heads were bald they did even have crests: https://youtu.be/DmICUUZijZA (if you pause video and look closely you will see the lutino sitting at the top very sick looking what could that be?). Other birds pecking it to death?

Sorry for my horrible video quality... the lady at the shop was STARING at me which made me feel uncomfortable to video tape her entire shop lol 

It urks me there are TONS of adult tiels just rotting there miserably and what seemed to be HUNDREDS of budgies, literally hundreds, they weren’t able to sell yet they are still continuing to breed them like crazy… of course this makes me a hypocrite since it’s because of people like me who buy birds from places like this and other breeders rather than rescues allowing it to continue.

I didn’t even hold any of the birds. I feel extremely sorry for that white face tiel which has been there for an entire year. He kept glaring up at me looking me straight in the eye it was very obvious he wanted out of that h*ll hole. It could have been his lucky day but instead I left him there… I feel really bad but I just couldn’t get myself to get a white face… having a lack of melanin is not a good thing and it just saddens me they bred the poor bird to be that way. Hopefully someone who appreciates white face tiels will adopt him into good home =( 

Here is video: https://youtu.be/QRV-izVjK3U

I’m going to have to wait couple months when there are more cinnamon tiels available also going to check out some shelters around here and see what I can find… but that white face tiel better NOT still be there in couple months because then I might do something!!! I am checking out http://floridaparrotrescue.com/ now...

I am kind of too scared to even get any bird from the shop I was just at... it seemed very dirty and sickly looking birds... the ones in the large aviary at least. Most of the birds in the glass cage were female asides from the white face.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

I really need to start shortening my posts!! My bad.

Unless I want to adopt a cockatoo there was nothing available at http://floridaparrotrescue.com/ even remotely close to me. I think I am going to wait a couple months and then regroup.


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

I do not blame you for not buying a bird from their, however the birds in the big cage did not look sick to me, (however my looking at a video is not as good as you looking in person) but they did look plucked, that lutino is being picked on by at least one of the other birds and why on earth do they have nest boxes up? That just causes aggression among the flock.. Thank god you didn't take rascal there with you!


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

ParrotletsRock said:


> I do not blame you for not buying a bird from their, however the birds in the big cage did not look sick to me, (however my looking at a video is not as good as you looking in person) but they did look plucked, that lutino is being picked on by at least one of the other birds and why on earth do they have nest boxes up? That just causes aggression among the flock.. Thank god you didn't take rascal there with you!


That's crazy... so it is other birds pecking at it? Too bad I didn't get a better video of it... the bird was literally completely bald... it's entire chest, neck and top of it's head even the back of his wings were bald. 

I am not really comfortable getting any bird from that place. Comparing this place to the bird shop I always take Rascal to have his nails trimmed (the one where the DNA sample went missing) is like comparing apples to oranges... it's clean and only a few birds whereas this place was a breeding zoo!


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Well, they could also be plucking themselves. Quite a few adult birds do, particularly in the area around the neck. My bird also does and he is the sweetest little boy in the world.  It is like humans biting their nails...


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

littletiel said:


> Well, they could also be plucking themselves. Quite a few adult birds do, particularly in the area around the neck. My bird also does and he is the sweetest little boy in the world.  It is like humans biting their nails...


... I don't see how it's possible for a bird to be able to pluck the entire top of their head bald though... as they can't even reach that area...


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Wow, that's so sad...  Those poor birds...
Well, if it were me, I would have taken that white face. But, you know what you want so that's that. I think taking that poor guy out that horrible place is considered saving in a way.
Their aviary looks like a mess...


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

Juliet said:


> ... I don't see how it's possible for a bird to be able to pluck the entire top of their head bald though... as they can't even reach that area...


You are right, if a bird cannot reach it is unlikely to be plucking there, although I have heard of a few bigger birds that will pluck feathers it can't reach with its feet I think that is rare and the tiels would not do that... My budgie boy will pluck his mate (his sister) bald when she goes broody and is sitting on eggs (white marbles, no inbred budgies here) and he is lovingly preening her...BALD!! With him it is not aggression it is overzealous love....lol Many birds will pluck their own chest when breeding to make a brood patch, but it is usually covered with close by feathers and you don't notice it, birds will pluck themselves and cage mates from boredom and stress. Being crowded in a noisy store is stressful.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

eduardo said:


> Wow, that's so sad...  Those poor birds...
> Well, if it were me, I would have taken that white face. But, you know what you want so that's that. I think taking that poor guy out that horrible place is considered saving in a way.
> Their aviary looks like a mess...


So true, it would indeed be like doing a rescue. I will check back and keep an eye on the white face... I don't know why it bothers me so much... I just can't get over the fact why anyone would ever want to breed a bird to be like that with no melanin. There is a reason why mother nature does not produce tiels like that. I don't mean to offend anyone, but it made the bird look a little unhealthy... in the video it doesn't look it... but in person I was rather taken back by the bird. To breed a bird to have no melanin or severe lack of it etc... I just don't get it. Again no offense.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

If that white face is still there in 2 weeks I plan to go and hold him at least.... the lady said he is very friendly and I can't allow him to end up in that aviary with the other unadopted tiels just rotting away in misery... but I am very worried about bird diseases from that nasty place. I live in a VERY small house.... I won't even be able to properly quarantine? As both cages would be in same room just far apart... is that even good enough?

I work in my living room. I never even go into the other room in this house so the bird would be in total isolation for a month and would basically never see me then...


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

Sorry to triple post in a row... but how do they get white face babies? They must be taking a bird with a genetic "defect" and then breeding them with another bird passing it along? Just trying to better understand how it is they are managing to breed out the orange circles etc.....


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Do you have a friend who could keep the bird in their house for a few weeks?
I think two weeks is sufficient to see if the bird is acting sick or not.
I am not trying to guilt you into getting this bird, but you never know, this white face mutation may grow on you with time.
Also, with time, our feelings change. When I first decided to get cockatiels, I was put off by their gray, "pidgeon" color. That's why I got a lutino.
Then, I got Tony. And now, I find greys beautiful. Go figure, lol.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

eduardo said:


> Do you have a friend who could keep the bird in their house for a few weeks?
> I think two weeks is sufficient to see if the bird is acting sick or not.
> I am not trying to guilt you into getting this bird, but you never know, this white face mutation may grown on you with time.
> Also, with time, our feelings change. When I first decided to get cockatiels, I was put off by their gray, "pidgeon" color. That's why I got a lutino.
> Then, I got Tony. And now, I find greys beautiful. Go figure, lol.


I must admit I do feel like a complete jerk... I'm so sorry... I just don't get the whole "white faced" thing with lack of melanin. That's why I love the cinnamon's... they are not much different than the normals. I could actually board the bird at my mom's house who lives super close in same neighborhood just few streets down though.... I could also take new bird to get it tested for chlamydia and what else to test for???

I just emailed the shop and told them to contact me if that white face is still not adopted within the next 2 weeks!


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

OMG. I never expected this thread to get this looooong :blush:

It appears I was wrong, it is the albino tiels that have no menalin... not the white face. Which of course, duh... makes sense since the white face tiel's body is grey (which obviously requires menalin!). I have no menalin myself and I can tell you it SUCKS. 

http://www.justcockatiels.net/whiteface.html

... which is another reason why I am attracted to birds with dark skin. I always wished I was black or indian with beautiful dark skin that is thicker, packed with menalin and doesn't age nearly as fast!!


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

Juliet said:


> I must admit I do feel like a complete jerk... I'm so sorry... I just don't get the whole "white faced" thing with lack of melanin. That's why I love the cinnamon's... they are not much different than the normals. I could actually board the bird at my mom's house who lives super close in same neighborhood just few streets down though.... I could also take new bird to get it tested for chlamydia and what else to test for???
> 
> I just emailed the shop and told them to contact me if that white face is still not adopted within the next 2 weeks!


You do not have to apologize for your not caring for whiteface... It is not an unhealthy defect, it is just a color mutation, white dog, black dog, pretty much the same thing. I personally love them all, but hey, you are the one who has to live with your choice, so make sure the bird you pick is one you can love and live with. Hope you find the birdie love of your life soon, (besides Rascal that is...lol)


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

ParrotletsRock said:


> You do not have to apologize for your not caring for whiteface... It is not an unhealthy defect, it is just a color mutation, white dog, black dog, pretty much the same thing. I personally love them all, but hey, you are the one who has to live with your choice, so make sure the bird you pick is one you can love and live with. Hope you find the birdie love of your life soon, (besides Rascal that is...lol)


I read up a little more on white face tiels... I do see I was wrong about them lacking menalin... I confused them with albino tiels.

I REALLY want to avoid keeping any bird at my mom's house... I try to avoid going there like the plague and I can't imagine having to go there every day for 2 weeks (I cannot trust her with any bird care) so I would have to be the one going to her house to feed the bird.

Would it be good enough quarantine if I keep the new tiel at the vets until his test comes back negative for psittacosis chlamydia? ... and then keep new bird in separate cage in same living room but cage be at least 20 feet away from Rascal? What other diseases should I test new bird for at the vet? I wish I could board bird at vet but it's too expensive for so many days.

I really dislike white face tiels to be honest... but if that white face is still there I feel so guilty I just might end up getting him.... but I feel so sorry for ALL of those birds!

This bird shop says they offer bird boarding at only $3/day... that is super cheap but I cannot quarantine bird there or can I???


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Juliet said:


> ... I don't see how it's possible for a bird to be able to pluck the entire top of their head bald though... as they can't even reach that area...


Oh, I was referring to the neck... I watched the video very quickly before going to the beach at 6am... 

PS: I have no melanin either...  It is particularly bad in Australia, where everybody else has a tan in summer...


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

Ya, it sucks not having any menalin. I MUCH prefer white face tiel mutation over albino mutation. Is this video correct when it says all white face tiels beaks and feet turn darker in color as they age? 

https://youtu.be/ZnGopAQ8trs

As Rascal has almost white feet when a baby and almost white beak and now his feet and beak are a beautiful dark color... I'm wondering approx what age does their feet start getting darker? I don't recall what age Rascal was since it was so gradual.

I am now very tempted to drive back to that bird shop and at least hold that white face tiel :blush:

... but I am concerned to get any bird from that shop because need to figure if my mentioned quarantine plan is good enough?


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Don't all babies have a pink beak and pink feet that turn darker later?


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

littletiel said:


> Don't all babies have a pink beak and pink feet that turn darker later?


The lutinos beaks and feet always stay light.... I noticed some normal greys have very dark beaks whereas others feet/beaks turn dark as they age like Rascal's did. I have no idea :blush:


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

By the way, I see that it is your birthday today. It is not the 4th yet where you are, but it is here, so there is a little cake next to your name on the front page. Happy Birthday! :bday:


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

littletiel said:


> By the way, I see that it is your birthday today. It is not the 4th yet where you are, but it is here, so there is a little cake next to your name on the front page. Happy Birthday! :bday:



Thanks.

OMG!!! I completely forgot it is my birthday on the 4th :blush:

STOP the time... I don't want to get any older!!!  LOL I really did completely forget... turning 36 yrs old... I am almost 40... quick... someone shoot me!


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Juliet said:


> Thanks.
> 
> OMG!!! I completely forgot it is my birthday on the 4th :blush:
> 
> STOP the time... I don't want to get any older!!!  LOL I really did completely forget... turning 36 yrs old... I am almost 40... quick... someone shoot me!


It is the right, almost perfect age to be Rascal's mother!


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Well, happy birthday!! 
What better occasion than this one to add another birdie to your little family 
I wish I was still 36... Instead, I am turning 42 in a few months 
The good thing about getting older is that you're supposed to be wiser :lol:


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## shaenne (Apr 19, 2014)

Honestly, if you don't like whiteface tiels, I wouldn't get one. Don't feel like you have to adopt him out of obligation because of his living conditions. It sucks and I wish no birds (or any animals for that matter) had to live like that, but getting a pet you're not completely sold on just because you feel obligated to rescue it is not a good idea in my opinion.

Spend the time and find a bird you click with.


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

shaenne said:


> Honestly, if you don't like whiteface tiels, I wouldn't get one. Don't feel like you have to adopt him out of obligation because of his living conditions. It sucks and I wish no birds (or any animals for that matter) had to live like that, but getting a pet you're not completely sold on just because you feel obligated to rescue it is not a good idea in my opinion.
> 
> Spend the time and find a bird you click with.


I agree with this 100%, it's kinda what I was trying to say, but you said it much better than me...lol


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2016)

Another reason I didn't hold this white face is because I knew if I held him then I would feel even more guilty because they told me he's very friendly! The way he looked up at me straight in the eye (he gave me a very long deliberate stare)... it was obvious he wanted out of that place. I've been looking at pictures of white face tiels today and no matter how hard I try to like them... I just can't get past the fact that they don't have orange cheeks. I feel like I am being ridiculous, actually, I know I am being ridiculous!!!... to be so fixated on orange circles!

I already emailed the shop and told them to contact me if he's still not adopted within the next 2 weeks. It's not a long drive at all and I can always go and at least hold the bird. Who knows, maybe he will grow on me if is I see him again and actually hold him in my hand.... so I do plan to see this bird again. I have not given up yet :blush:

.... then I have to jump in shower and disinfect myself LOL.... I have no idea how risky it is for me to give something bad to my tiel?


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2016)

I'm going to go see that bird again this weekend and at least hold it. If that bird was a cinnamon with orange cheeks I would be all over it... but just because it doesn't have orange cheeks... what the heck... I'm not perfect either so who am I to care so much if a bird has orange circles or not! ... and Rascal doesn't care if the bird doesn't have orange spots either. :wacko: 

My mother says I was dropped on my head a lot when I was a baby... which could explain why I am so nuts.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Juliet, you are not nuts. You have a kind heart 
I think, in the end, you will do what you feel is right for you and Rascal.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2016)

eduardo said:


> Juliet, you are not nuts. You have a kind heart
> I think, in the end, you will do what you feel is right for you and Rascal.


What's crazy is that I would rather have the bird be missing a few toes or something rather than the bird to have missing orange cheeks. Missing toes etc would NOT bother me... but missing orange circles do for some bizarre reason :wacko:

... but I am seeing this bird again.


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

eduardo said:


> Juliet, you are not nuts. You have a kind heart
> I think, in the end, you will do what you feel is right for you and Rascal.


Hush Dee, all us best people are nuts....LOLOL


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## Dislian (Sep 5, 2015)

We all are nuts, don't worry . 
If you don't like the bird at all, don't take him. You have to like it to demonstrate to Rascal so. If not, if they don't get along, you may have each bird in two cages and only spending time with one (I'm exagerating). 

It's important you like the bird because he's going to be a companion for all your life and his. 

Maybe you should wait to see if there are other tiels next time!


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2016)

You know what's funny is if Rascal's orange spots suddenly disappeared and he also turned into an albino tiel and lost one of his legs I would still love him just the same... so I know I would love the new tiel just as much if I got him.

I haven't even held the new tiel yet... so I plan to at least do that before scratching him off the list completely. I will go back and ask the women if it's unlikely he will get adopted since he's been there a year already???

Why hasn't he been adopted yet? Isn't that strange for such a "cheaply" priced tiel? As even cheaper tiels (the other ones I showed you in video) have not sold! That stores gets a lot of traffic... that bird shop could at least put a lower price tag on that white face tiel if he's not selling at $150 so he's more likely to be bought... but then again... buyers know they can always negotiate the price. I would actually tell them I want to pay less because the poor bird is missing his orange spots lol


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

That store probably focuses on selling larger parrots, which is where they make most of their money.

There is no such things as an albino tiel. A true albino in nature, is solely lacking melanin (I think that's how it works.) Because it takes a lack of melanin and something else to create an all white tiel, it's actually termed whitefaced lutino. And there is nothing wrong with these birds health wise. Nothing wrong with white faced birds health wise either. 

The plucking is most likely from the other birds. Lutinos tend to have bald spots to begin with and very small crests, so that doesn't help either. Bird stores aren't the cleanest places to begin with what with all the birds tossing seeds around, but the stores should at least make an attempt.

Also, don't get a bird if you don't like it. That creates resentment, been there done that and it's not fair to the bird. I realize you are mostly getting this bird for Rascal, but you need to at least like the bird too. Let the bird choose you.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2016)

roxy culver said:


> That store probably focuses on selling larger parrots, which is where they make most of their money.
> 
> There is no such things as an albino tiel. A true albino in nature, is solely lacking melanin (I think that's how it works.) Because it takes a lack of melanin and something else to create an all white tiel, it's actually termed whitefaced lutino. And there is nothing wrong with these birds health wise. Nothing wrong with white faced birds health wise either.
> 
> ...


What you say is true, you make good points. If the white face looked straight up at me (it was a very deliberate and very obvious looong stare start into my eyes)... but he does that to everyone when they fist walk up the glass cage because he was hoping I would pick him up out of that glass cage... so I don't know if that means he chose me or not. When he realized I was not going to pick him up he went about his business.

I would like to at least see him one more time as I didn't even get to hold him... who knows... maybe second time around will be different.


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

Go, hold him, love on him and see if your heart clicks with him, if not you will always wonder, but if when you hold him, you still find yourself put off by his looks then pass... At least then you will know for sure if he is the one or not... Good luck!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Parrots have two color pigments: melanin which causes grey coloring, and psittacofulvin (aka psittacin) which causes the yellow/orange/red coloring. Psittacin is unique to parrots, and most other bird species with yellow/red coloring get it from carotenoids in the diet instead of making their own pigment like parrots do.

Whiteface in cockatiels is caused by the same gene that causes the blue mutation in a lot of other parrots. It removes the psittacin (yellow/red) not the melanin, and subtracting the yellow in a green bird gives you blue because blue plus yellow equals green. In cockatiels it just gives you a grey bird with no yellow/orange color. Whiteface cockatiels have the full quantity and quality of normal melanin, it's the psittacin that they don't have. 

Cinnamon on the other hand is an alteration in the melanin quality. Melanin goes through several stages while it's being produced, and in the final stage it changes color from brown to black, which we see as grey in cockatiels because the physical structure of the feather is white and we see a blended effect. A cinnamon cockatiel doesn't have the enzyme that makes the melanin change color in the last stage so it remains brown instead of turning black. This frequently looks like light grey to us instead of brown. 

Mutations are a spontaneous change in DNA that occurs when sperm and ova are being formed. It's basically a defect in the original DNA, but sometimes the changes are beneficial and this is the driving force behind evolution. Most color mutations cause a failure in some part of the normal color production process, because it's easier to disrupt an existing process than to develop a whole new one. Most of our color mutations wouldn't be advantageous in the wild. But I seriously think that the pearl mutation might be a reversion to ancestral coloring - it looks like great camouflage and there are a lot of existing bird species that have patterned markings on the back. It's not that different from the wing barring that budgies have right now. But at some point in time it became more advantageous for cockatiels to have plain coloring so they evolved away from patterned markings. 

I also think it's more likely than not that the ancestors of the cockatoos had green coloring but the cockatoo family evolved away from it while most other parrots kept it going. For anybody who's into "deep geekery" genetic talk, I explain why I think these things are possible here: http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/breed-coloration2.html#ancestral


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2016)

tielfan said:


> Parrots have two color pigments: melanin which causes grey coloring, and psittacofulvin (aka psittacin) which causes the yellow/orange/red coloring. Psittacin is unique to parrots, and most other bird species with yellow/red coloring get it from carotenoids in the diet instead of making their own pigment like parrots do.
> 
> Whiteface in cockatiels is caused by the same gene that causes the blue mutation in a lot of other parrots. It removes the psittacin (yellow/red) not the melanin, and subtracting the yellow in a green bird gives you blue because blue plus yellow equals green. In cockatiels it just gives you a grey bird with no yellow/orange color. Whiteface cockatiels have the full quantity and quality of normal melanin, it's the psittacin that they don't have.
> 
> ...


Interesting, thanks for the info wow that was a lot of detail  
... so are albino tiels having lack of menalin? I quickly realized I was wrong when I posted white faced tiels as lacking menalin as they clearly have menalin since his body feathers are grey.... only difference is his orange circles are gone so I knew I was wrong.


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

Juliet said:


> Interesting, thanks for the info wow that was a lot of detail
> ... so are albino tiels having lack of menalin? I quickly realized I was wrong when I posted white faced tiels as lacking menalin as they clearly have menalin since his body feathers are grey.... only difference is his orange circles are gone so I knew I was wrong.


Albinos are actually called whiteface lutinos and are lacking both types of pigment. They look like little cockatoos and in my opinion are very pretty, however I may be biased, I kept a whiteface lutino chick from my last clutch....lol


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Yes, "albino" in parrots is actually two mutations - whiteface (blue) and lutino. Parrots have two color factors and it takes two different mutations to eliminate both pigments. Whiteface gets rid of the psittacin (yellow/orange) and lutino gets rid of the melanin (grey).


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

I think they are really beautiful though.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Yes, as others have said you must be sure you love him and that you don't buy him just to make Rascal happy. It would be like having a second child just because your first child feels a bit lonely. On the other hand you could change your mind once you have it and he wins your heart. It's a bit of a risk this way though, so think about it carefully and go to the shop again to see if you two are really meant for each other.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2016)

littletiel said:


> Yes, as others have said you must be sure you love him and that you don't buy him just to make Rascal happy. It would be like having a second child just because your first child feels a bit lonely. On the other hand you could change your mind once you have it and he wins your heart. It's a bit of a risk this way though, so think about it carefully and go to the shop again to see if you two are really meant for each other.


What I 100% know without a DOUBT is that I would have gotten another tiel by now a long time ago if GCCs did not exist because I have always felt it's a bit sad to have only one bird... I would LOVE to have a GCC (never owned one and they seem like such awesome silly birds!) but in reality it's not safe for Rascal and a GCC would not keep Rascal good company since they cannot even be kept in a cage..... so I would still always feel guilty everytime I leave the house when Rascal can't come.

Another tiel works best right now... I still plan to at least TRY and get baby GCC but that wouldn't be until few yrs in the future.... if at all. The GCC is not a definite thing... just a possibility in the future.

.... but I wonder if it's best to get a baby tiel or a tiel that's older or if it even makes a difference I have no idea  It would be fun seeing Rascal have another bird to sing with though... he looks very lonely in that huge cage by himself we need some more action around here.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2016)

littletiel said:


> Yes, as others have said you must be sure you love him and that you don't buy him just to make Rascal happy. It would be like having a second child just because your first child feels a bit lonely. On the other hand you could change your mind once you have it and he wins your heart. It's a bit of a risk this way though, so think about it carefully and go to the shop again to see if you two are really meant for each other.


Forgot to say I don't see anything wrong with a parent having a second child just so that they can have a sibling... in fact, many parents do just that and I see nothing wrong with that at all... but each to their own I guess. I admit I am mostly getting another tiel so that Rascal is not so alone when I leave and has another bird to sing with or fight with lol... but that doesn't mean I'm not excited to get another tiel 

... but I still am confused whether a baby tiel or an older tiel is best in this situation...


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Juliet said:


> Forgot to say I don't see anything wrong with a parent having a second child just so that they can have a sibling... in fact, many parents do just that and I see nothing wrong with that at all... but each to their own I guess. I admit I am mostly getting another tiel so that Rascal is not so alone when I leave and has another bird to sing with or fight with lol... but that doesn't mean I'm not excited to get another tiel
> 
> ... but I still am confused whether a baby tiel or an older tiel is best in this situation...


Well, yes, but surely you wouldn't regard the second child just as the first child's companion once (s)he is there? 

Also, I fully understand what you are saying, but success is not 100% guaranteed. I have seen threads here where the second tiel either didn't like the owner or didn't like the first tiel. What I mean is you should be prepared for possible challenges, that's why it is important to think carefully about it. I am not saying it will happen of course or that it is a bad idea at all to want to get a second tiel for Rascal. I am just saying it is not that easy... Of course success is not guaranteed even with the first tiel. Tiels are living creatures with their own personality, so you cannot predict the future. Good luck with your choice!


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2016)

littletiel said:


> Well, yes, but surely you wouldn't regard the second child just as the first child's companion once (s)he is there?
> 
> Also, I fully understand what you are saying, but success is not 100% guaranteed. I have seen threads here where the second tiel either didn't like the owner or didn't like the first tiel. What I mean is you should be prepared for possible challenges, that's why it is important to think carefully about it. I am not saying it will happen of course or that it is a bad idea at all to want to get a second tiel for Rascal. I am just saying it is not that easy... Of course success is not guaranteed even with the first tiel. Tiels are living creatures with their own personality, so you cannot predict the future. Good luck with your choice!


Of course not, I would love them both the same 

... but I am thinking maybe getting a baby tiel increases the chances of success?

I am embarrassed to post this and don't even know if I should... but I showed my mom and aunt pic of white face tiel and they told me I should not get him and then they both started chattering with each other why silly humans messing with nature turning beautiful bird created by nature to create such a plain colorless bird and when I told them he's more expensive ($150) they almost fainted. Not that I care what they think... but they said I am crazy to pay more for a colorless bird when Rascal is so gorgeous and he was only $40.... followed by asking me if I am crazy.

My mom told me she was just at a patient's house and the patient had 5 tiels and the loud nonstop screaming of the tiels gave her massive headache within 5 minutes lol The tiels weren't singing she said but rather screaming their heads off for over entire hour LOL... so she got what she deserved  I really cannot quarantine a bird at my mom's house she would throw the bird out the window or suck it up with the vacuum cleaner if it made a peep. I remember she got rid of all my tiels when I was a kid 

Rascal is as quiet as a MOUSE all day long as he just sleeps nonstop always has... I wish he would sing more... it is so cute when he does.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

I paid $40 for my tiel too, and he is similar to Rascal. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I am sure there are people who find colourless tiels beautiful. I personally care more about personality.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2016)

littletiel said:


> I paid $40 for my tiel too, and he is similar to Rascal. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I am sure there are people who find colourless tiels beautiful. I personally care more about personality.


Definitely same here for sure.... well except I do much prefer tiels to have orange cheeks... so I think I just contradicted myself :blush:


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Honestly, I don't think age really matters. Rascal is young enough that a young tiel won't annoy him like it would an older bird.

I LOVE whitefaced cinnamon pearls...with the lacey wing. But that's what Cinnamon was and she was my first tiel. I had never seen a bird like her, my hubby had picked out a normal grey (they're his favorite) and a whitefaced cinnamon, then took me when I got home to pick out my two. Cinnamon was in a cage with several others like her and shoved herself as close to me against the cage bars as she could get. I knew I wanted her but we had one more store to go to, so I asked them to hold her for me. Fuzzy picked me at the next store, climbing up into my hair and refusing to come out, so we took him and went back to the first store for Cinnamon. I have a thing for pearls, they're my favorite, Fuzzy was a normal pearl. Cinnamon was the best $120 I ever spent on a bird.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

Sure, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and if we all thought alike, the world would be a boring place. So your mom doesn't like white face tiels, but there are many other people who think they are gorgeous, and that's perfectly fine.
What the "problem" here is, really, is that you are over analyzing things and therefore not making much progress with your quest for a new bird. And I am not saying this in a mean way. Believe me, I know how it feels. I think you are a wonderful bird owner, caring and loving, and Rascal and the new bird are lucky to have you.
But, you will have to make a decision. And not look back.
What I find works for me is that the less I try to control things and the outcome, the better. I try to take things as they are. Just as you would welcome a newborn child (not knowing what he looks like or his personality will be), you welcome that new bird with an open mind and give him the space and unconditional love. The less you expect from things, the better the experience.
I am sorry if I am not expressing myself well (English is my second language), but your thread has interested me and for some reason I feel like I would like to help you in some way. Because I feel you are a good soul.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2016)

I saw this spangle tiel yesterday on google and I think it's the most beautiful tiel I ever saw... I didn't even know spangle tiels exist but I bet they are difficult to find?

EDIT: Sorry nevermind I see "spangles" have been talked about on this forum... they are very pretty.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=14785
This thread has some info on spangles. The best I could understand, it's another word for emerald and if I remember correctly, they're mostly female.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2016)

eduardo said:


> Sure, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and if we all thought alike, the world would be a boring place. So your mom doesn't like white face tiels, but there are many other people who think they are gorgeous, and that's perfectly fine.
> What the "problem" here is, really, is that you are over analyzing things and therefore not making much progress with your quest for a new bird. And I am not saying this in a mean way. Believe me, I know how it feels. I think you are a wonderful bird owner, caring and loving, and Rascal and the new bird are lucky to have you.
> But, you will have to make a decision. And not look back.
> What I find works for me is that the less I try to control things and the outcome, the better. I try to take things as they are. Just as you would welcome a newborn child (not knowing what he looks like or his personality will be), you welcome that new bird with an open mind and give him the space and unconditional love. The less you expect from things, the better the experience.
> I am sorry if I am not expressing myself well (English is my second language), but your thread has interested me and for some reason I feel like I would like to help you in some way. Because I feel you are a good soul.



Thanks for your kind words 

I know I tend to overthink things... and what you write makes sense.


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

As Pascal said, "The heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing."


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2016)

littletiel said:


> As Pascal said, "The heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing."


Hey... that's the kind of stuff I always read on fortune cookies at chinese restaurants and it always confuses me lol


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

It's basically what eduardo said expressed more enigmatically.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Spangle isn't emerald - it's a separate mutation found only in Australia. So don't get your heart set on one of those unless you're willing to move to Oz lol. Emeralds are available in the US so they're more attainable, but they're harder to get than the ordinary mutations. Here's a link with some picture of spangles: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~geoffwatts1/Silver_Spangle_Cockatiels.html

What I find is most important is to find a cockatiel that shows an interest in you right from the start. The more interactive birds make the best pets. When I buy a standoffish bird because I like the way it looks, it never warms up to me the way the friendlier ones do.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2016)

I was just saying I find them to be beautiful... not that I'm on a mission to get one that looks like that 

I was just curious if they are rare to find.


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