# Daisy is still sick.



## morla (Aug 15, 2011)

My mom took her to the vet and spent another $160! She is going to try to get avion insurance soon. 

The vet thinks there is something wrong with her stomach and liver. All the clymitia and spyrokeets are gone so that's good. 

She is now 58 grams! 

No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! 

This can't happen! 

I now don't know for sure what's going to happen in the furture.

She was so low that he hand fed her. We are giving her a pro biotic twice a day. It's called Benebac gell. That will help her Gi tract.

I really hope it helps! I am still doing the harrisons pellets and seeds. He wants us to give her millet also.

I hope everything gets better soon! Please don't die.










I can't lose you.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear she's still sick.  

I'm a little surprised that the vet only gave a probiotic when she's lost this much weight. Was this the same vet you saw before? And did they do tests again? Did they tell you specifically what they think is wrong with her stomach/liver? I don't mean to question your vet's treatment, it just seems like her condition is pretty critical to only give Benebac.


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## morla (Aug 15, 2011)

It was the same vet. They did do tests. He doesn't know and he needs to do blood tests on her but my mom did not have the money at the moment.

I am so stressed out it's not even funny!


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## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

Okay Morla.. take a breath .. calm down a bit. Daisy needs you to be her rock.  You can do it. You have had such a run of bad events with your feathered friends. I really wish I could help out with the vet bills.. but money is tight here too.  I think there's a company called Care Credit for help with medical bills for pets and I think they do humans too. Maybe your mom could check this out. We are keeping you guys in our thoughts!


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I'm so sorry, i hope you can find a way to treat her. Benebac is good to help with digestion and absorption of nutrients but if there's a disease there then benebac won't cut it. It may buy you some time but in the end she needs to be medicated.

You and Daisy are in my thoughts. Please keep us updated.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I wonder if your mom might talk to him about starting either an antibiotic or an antinflammatory as a trial, if she can't afford the bloodwork. It's usually not good to treat if you don't know what you're treating, but in this case, it might be best to try meds and see if they would work. I would ask the vet if he's thinking either bacterial enteritis or PDD. Those are the things that come to mind when I hear GI/liver problems. It's your decision and your mom's, of course, and it's always best to have a solid diagnosis before treating. But sometimes it's not possible to do all the tests, and this is what I would do if it were my bird.

Here's some info: http://www.stoppdd.org/

I'm really not trying to scare you, but these are some questions that might be helpful to ask your vet. Roo and I are sending you and Daisy good thoughts.


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## stevechurch2222 (Sep 25, 2011)

I hope Daisy gets better,Morla.Keep us updated.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

stay calm and relaxed, morla. tiels can pick up on your stress.

i am sorry you are having to go through this again, i agree with enigma to ask the vet more questions.


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## morla (Aug 15, 2011)

Ok. I will. Oh, I forgot! He gave her a shot of Dioxin i think it's called. Thank-you everybody!


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

take care of yourself too morla 

you do a good job taking care of daisy. i know you will keep taking good care of her too


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## carrielee76 (Nov 19, 2011)

Aww Morla, I am so sorry to hear that Daisy is still sick. I know that feeling like you are losing a tiel that you have bonded to so closely hurts bunches. I have been there once when I was a teen. I will be sending prayers and well wishes for you and Daisy!


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## mellowyellow (Feb 28, 2011)

Im really sorry to hear about Daisy, cockatiels are little fighters, dont stress so much otherwise she'll feel your stress which will make her worse. You need to calm down and change your way of thinking. She'll be okay.

Have you tried giving her things like, wholemeal bread, boiled egg white (only the white) and egg biscuit? Their good for gaining weight. Im no professional but when my baby cockatiel had weight problems thats what she was given. As for the more sickness wise i dont have much experience.

Im so sorry you have to go through this again, you can do it and fight for her! 
Another suggestion is set up a recovery cage, a small cage with food and water on the floor, a blanket in the corner and a 40watt lamp close to and aiming in the corner of the blanket, also have the cage mostly covered in a dark quiet room (check on her frequently. My breeder says that all cockatiels need to recover is warmth and rest and their bodies will heal themselves. I highly recommend this method. If Daisy gets too hot she will just move up to a perch. 

Keep us posted morla your in our thoughts, good luck with daisy, i hope she hangs on for you!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Do you know if the injection was an antibiotic, morla? If so, that's probably good. This is my personal experience ONLY, but when Roo was losing weight and we couldn't take blood, we did a trial of antibiotics. I'm fully convinced it saved her life. 

Can you and your mom go back to handfeeding her once or twice a day like you were doing before? That's probably the best way to get her to gain weight at this point, and it seemed like you did really well with it before. If the vet thinks she has a GI problem, you might also ask about supplements that could make hand feeding formula easier to digest/absorb. I know some people use a type of enzyme in the food to help the bird digest it. Your vet can give you more info on this. 

Does your mom read this forum too? If not, you might want to have her take a look at this thread since she'll be the one talking to the vet most likely.

Definitely take care of yourself, too! Keeping yourself healthy is part of being a good birdie-mom as well.  Daisy knows you love her and are doing your best for her.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Its good she was given the probiotics...after any course of antibiotics (which Daisy just recently had) there should be a course of probiotics to build back up the natural good flora in her stomach and intestines. I'm not sure about the liver but this might be what's wrong with her stomach. I agree that handfeeding is probably a good idea until she gains some weight. And most definitely take care of yourself, if you get sick she can't get better.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

roxy culver said:


> Its good she was given the probiotics...after any course of antibiotics (which Daisy just recently had) there should be a course of probiotics to build back up the natural good flora in her stomach and intestines.


Actually, that's a good thought. I wonder if she could have an opportunistic bacterial enteritis as a result of having antibiotics and no probiotics the first time. I'm pretty sure that's what happened to Roo.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

Get well daisy :flowers: im praying for you


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Aw, poor little Daisy. It sounds like you acted quickly though which is good. Sunny and I are sending positive thoughts your way.


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## morla (Aug 15, 2011)

mellowyellow said:


> Im really sorry to hear about Daisy, cockatiels are little fighters, dont stress so much otherwise she'll feel your stress which will make her worse. You need to calm down and change your way of thinking. She'll be okay.
> 
> Have you tried giving her things like, wholemeal bread, boiled egg white (only the white) and egg biscuit? Their good for gaining weight. Im no professional but when my baby cockatiel had weight problems thats what she was given. As for the more sickness wise i dont have much experience.
> 
> ...


I have tried giving her the wholemeal bread, boiled egg white (only the white) and egg biscuit yet but i will try that. I will see if i can do the smaller cage stuff. I don't think I can though because buying a heat lamp, cage and stuff is more money that we don't have after spending so much money on vet bills. I will try to not get stressed around Daisy.


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## morla (Aug 15, 2011)

enigma731 said:


> Do you know if the injection was an antibiotic, morla? If so, that's probably good. This is my personal experience ONLY, but when Roo was losing weight and we couldn't take blood, we did a trial of antibiotics. I'm fully convinced it saved her life.
> 
> Can you and your mom go back to handfeeding her once or twice a day like you were doing before? That's probably the best way to get her to gain weight at this point, and it seemed like you did really well with it before. If the vet thinks she has a GI problem, you might also ask about supplements that could make hand feeding formula easier to digest/absorb. I know some people use a type of enzyme in the food to help the bird digest it. Your vet can give you more info on this.
> 
> ...


Thanks enigma731. The shot that he gave Daisy was an anitbiotic I believe. 
When we hand fed her before, we could not get the tube down so it took forever doing it bit by bit and it got al over her face and I felt bad doing it and it probably got stessed out too. 

I have my mom read some threads sometimes but I will definatly have her read this one. Do you guys want to talk to her to? That would be awesome!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

If your mom has any questions all she has to do is ask and we'll try to help as best we can...


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## morla (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks everybody! I am getting excited about the hand feeding! I even have everything for it too! The first time we hand fed her we bought this stuff that looks like brown sugar. We added warm water to it. And we have the tube thing too. All of that costed 5 dallors at a bird store. I hope that formula is good for her. Do you think we need to add anything to it? I hate hand feeding because I am horrible at it! It seems like the tube just doesn't fit in her mouth. It's probably because she didn't open her mouth as much as she could. How do you get her to open up more.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

We might be able to help your mom with questions to ask the vet. Or any questions she might have.  

I'll let people more experienced with handfeeding answer your other questions. I haven't done it in years.


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## morla (Aug 15, 2011)

Ok. When I see my mom, i will have her get on this thread.


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## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

I'm not sure if this will help with the hand feeding, but I have very tiny thin fingers and so it can be hard for me to hold the syringe type feeder securely in my hand. I actually use an eye dropper. The eye dropper is roughly 1 ml... so you have to do it several times, but I have much better luck getting the formula into the birds instead of on them.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

How did the vet feed her? Maybe he can give you some tips.


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## morla (Aug 15, 2011)

I was not the so I don't know how her fed her but I am going to have my mom talk about the hand feeding with him.


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## mellowyellow (Feb 28, 2011)

morla said:


> I have tried giving her the wholemeal bread, boiled egg white (only the white) and egg biscuit yet but i will try that. I will see if i can do the smaller cage stuff. I don't think I can though because buying a heat lamp, cage and stuff is more money that we don't have after spending so much money on vet bills. I will try to not get stressed around Daisy.


You dont need a new cage, you can use the cage shes already in to set it up 

Hand feeding is quite simple, they will resist a little. I use a really small syringe and huddle them in my other hand, if your really close to daisy she wont be too bad (you will need to be a little forceful as they resist a little bit, she may remember the taste and enjoy it). I add hot water to the hand rearing formula mix it ALOT and put it into the microwave for a few seconds literally. Mix it alot again and it will be a really nice smooth consistency! Keep mixing until its cooled down enough.  I actually miss hand rearing my baby! It brought us closer too!

Feel free to contact me if you need any help! (messages on here or email, [email protected]) Im not one for bird vets, depending on the situation, as the bird breeder i know is soo against them. So I know ways to help them without the major costs. 

I highly recommend the recovery cage and the foods i mentioned (as well as what shes already eating and greens) also i think hand rearing is a great thought too. I would do the recovery cage first, then TRY hand rearing (contact me if you need help) and also offer what i suggested. 

Good luck to you and Daisy, thinking of you! ♥


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

mellowyellow said:


> Im not one for bird vets, depending on the situation, as the bird breeder i know is soo against them. So I know ways to help them without the major costs.


It's good to have these skills for when one can't get to the vet, or so that one can care for a sick bird at home after consulting a doctor. But I have to stress here that morla and her mom really need to stay in contact with the vet, rather than just attempting to handle this themselves. It's not just weight loss -- It's severe weight loss in a bird that has a history of very serious bacterial infection and abnormal organ inflammation. Whatever is going on, it may be helped by handfeeding and supplementation with caloric food, but it's most likely also going to require prescription medication and a vet's supervision.

morla -- You and your mom may want to talk to the vet before adding new foods like bread or egg. Those things are good for weight gain in principle, but if she's having GI, kidney, or liver problems, they may be hard on her system. You don't want to do more harm than good. Please ask the vet what he thinks of giving her these things before you do it. He should be willing to consult on the phone without additional charge. You've taken her in enough times that he owes you this at the very least.


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## Kikode (Aug 17, 2011)

So sorry to hear that  Hope she pulls through quickly. Keep us updated. Sorry dont know what to tell you I know that has to be very hard to go through.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

also, in regards to microwaving handfeeding formula, this can create "hotspots" in the formula which can cause crop burn. also the formula needs to be a certain temperature. if it is too hot you can cause crop burn and if it is too cold it can cause slow crop and other digestion problems. you need a thermometer and you need to check the temperature. the formula temperature should be between 104F-106F any hotter you can seriously harm your baby. best way to keep the formula a consistent temperature is to keep the small amount of formula in a little cup and place that cup in another filled with hot water. it will keep the formula evenly heated. you cannot reuse or store formula for later. you must only make the amount you need PER feeding or toss out the leftovers. feeding leftover formula can create yeast infections and other problems. so every time you handfeed her, the formula should be fresh made.


and morla needs the vets for this. whether you are against them or not, thats your business, but in this case, a vet is desperately needed, there are no home remedies for this sickness.


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## morla (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks guys. I will definatly talk to the vet before I do anything.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*It seems like the tube just doesn't fit in her mouth.*
----------------------------------------

Several thoughts. can you post some clear pix of what you are using to tube feed? I have found the *best thing* to use is a peice of urological catheter...*but* care must be taken that the cut edges are smooth...otherwise injury and/or infections can result. Many times a Medical Suppy can sell you catheters (size 12 Fr.) or the vet can write a script to your pharmacy.

Below are some helpful pixs (click for a larger view) 

You might also want to find a Petsmart and see if they have PROZYME or ask your vet for a digestive enzyme. it will help aid with better nutrient absorption with food in the digestive tract.

Oh....in looking at the pix of Daisy she is a fallow. since she is a rare mutation do you know what mutations her parents were? If they were both fallows there is a possibility that genetically she may have a lowered immune system....and might be something else to discuss with the vet.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

How is Daisy doing? Have you been able to weigh her?


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## morla (Aug 15, 2011)

She was weighed at the vet but we don't have have a gram scale to weigh her at home. I really hope she gets better. 

We are going to call the vet about feeding her the boiled egg white but my mom decided to not hand feed her because she says she doesn't know what she's doing.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Talking to the vet is good. I would also have her ask about additional medications. How does Daisy seem to be acting?


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

hi morla, can you find any breeders around you who can teach you or your mom to handfeed? do not bring daisy to them, just see if you can find someone to show you how to handfeed.

ive handfed my female lovebird when she was really sick. but i did not tube feed, so i do not know how to do this.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

have you tried before?


i have handfed an adult bird as ive said. but i put the syringe at her left side of the beak, with her beak slightly open and slowly dripped the formula in her beak and let her eat it on her own. some got spit back out, but she did eat some and after awhile she ate it without spitting it out. you can try this if you are scared of handfeeding. its slow and takes time and can be messy, but it might really help. she needs to eat. if she does not get fed, she will starve. sick birds need all the strength they could get. you will need to hold her head really well, you dont want her squirming, but be gentle too. try to get her to eat a little bit at least, as much as she can. feed her frequently. make sure the formula is the right temperature too.

do not squirt the food into her mouth. it should come out very slow. you do not want her to choke on it. try getting the right speed of it first before feeding her. test it out until you can get it to come out slowly and evenly. try to get her to eat it. its very important she eats.


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## morla (Aug 15, 2011)

I want to hand feed but my mom keeps saying no! 

I wish i could just try to do it myself! 

Yes, I will also ask about addicinal medications.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

try to tell her that she needs to or else she will not have the strength to pull through. show her my post and ask if she will try that.


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## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

You know.. if the syringe/tube feeding is a little scary.. try a spoon. Mix up some formula and feed it to her by spoon. You can take a plastic spoon.. set it in hot water for a little bit so you can bend/mold the edges of the spoon so that they curve up to stop the formula from sliding off the edges. She might just take some formula this way too.


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## Fortunate (Oct 31, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear about Daisy, I'm going through the same thing with Tempest and I know how you feel..... 
It's not easy - I can see you love Daisy, I'm sure she will bounce back, she has so much love surrounding her!

I am sending my love (I'm sure my flock does the same) to you and to Daisy and your mom - I know its hard but you need to stay strong, you lucky to have your mom to help you - my mom has and is my shoulder to cry on while I sort out my flock, its nice to have someone who will just pass you the tissues while you sob! 

Good Luck Morla! I really hope all goes well! *huggs*


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## morla (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks Fortunate! You are very kind!


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