# First time breeding, any advice?



## TheBirdman (Jan 20, 2012)

I have two cockatiels, Joe and Pearl. I got them a few months ago from the owners of a furniture store who didn't want them anymore, but I had some parakeets before then. Their wings were clipped a long time ago, but their feathers have grown back, save for Joe, who is is missing his tail feathers. I have been letting them fly (or try to) around my room, and Joe has gotten much better at it. He can now get anywhere is my room from anywhere. Pearl isn't nearly as good at flying, but she seems perfectly content staying in or on the cage. They are both tame and Joe can say "Pretty Bird" and whistle a little.

Pearl is Joe's daughter. Joe is 15 and Pearl is 9, so their fertile years are reaching their end, however, they started breeding a few weeks ago and about 3 days ago Pearl laid her first egg on the cage floor. Uninformed, I bought them a small nest and some nesting material. They didn't like it, so today I got them a nest box, put an inch or two of pine shavings in it, and put it on the cage. I hung some millet by it, but they haven't seemed to notice it yet. Joe turns the egg about twice a day and they occasionally sit on it, though it is usually pretty toasty in my room.
Once they discover the box, should I move the egg there?
Any other tips for a first time breeder?


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## angelmommy24 (Nov 20, 2011)

Did you say Pearl is Joes Daughter?? I may be incorrect but I don't believe you should be doing this.. I hope someone else chimes in..


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

Whoa if pearl is joes daughter you should be trying to prevent them from breeding not encouraging them. Have you seen them mating? Have you candled the egg to see if there are any signs of fertility yet?

If the egg is infertile there is a thread on hormone reduction techniques here, http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=2678.
Im not sure on if its fertile, the egg should be moved to the nest at some point I think....

Please read all of the stickies in the breeding section as they are a very good source of knowledge and hopefully others will have better advice for you.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

As other have stated, what you are doing is inbreeding, and with no back ground you have no idea if Joe also came from inbred stock. Unfortunately novices make this mistake and sadly account for some of the tiels that that find their ways into pet owner homes with numerous unexplained health issues, and huge vet bills. It is the next person that winds up paying for an irresponsible breeders mistakes

Just because you have 2 birds of the opposite sex, they have an egg, does not mean that you have to encourage and pursue this. There are enough inexperienced and irresponsible breeders out there. Do yourself and the birds a favorite and if you plan on breeding try to find unrelated mates for these birds. 

Research and read about breeding. Just because you have a pair of birds breeding does not make you a breeder, all you are is their manager, and with it goes the responsibility of providing a good balanced diet, vet care if needed, researching to learn of the potential problems that can occur with eggs and babies. For example types of bedding used in the nestbox can contribute to success or failure. 

Providing cuttlebone as a calcium source does not guarantee that you will have good shell quality on eggs. Being inbred is a major strike because the male can still be fertile but inbreeding is the major cause of a fertilized yolk dying before the shell is laid on the egg. If the eggs are fertile and do develop fatal genes can later crop up. For example, perfectly healthy hatchlings that just suddenly died when they reached 10 days of age. Or if they make it to the hand-feeding stage there is risk of them appearing healthy and just keeling over dead at close to weaning. I am mentioning this because I experienced this myself.


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## TheBirdman (Jan 20, 2012)

Yeah, I plan on getting a younger male to freshen up the gene pool after this clutch. I don't know if Joe is still fertile or not at age 15, but isn't 3 days a little early for candling? If any hatch I'll keep one and sell/give away the rest, if any.

EDIT:
Alright, thanks for clearing that up, Ill prevent this from happening in the future.


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## angelmommy24 (Nov 20, 2011)

But I wouldn't suggest breeding Joe & Pearl they are related and you would be inbreeding them... just my opinion...


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Sigh....this person is going to do what he wants, with no regards to the birds, and succeeding generations.


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## TheBirdman (Jan 20, 2012)

srtiels said:


> Sigh....this person is going to do what he wants, with no regards to the birds, and succeeding generations.


I just said I was going to prevent this from happening, I'm sorry, I didn't know that just one inbred generation messed stuff up so bad.


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## Dreamcatchers (Apr 17, 2011)

Why wait to "freshen up the gene pool"? If you want to let the hen have babies, then get her an appropriate mate. Your current male may still be fertile but you are not being very responsible by allowing him to mate his daughter, even if the babies survive and you give them away, all you are doing is potentially giving a big vet bill to someone who thinks they are getting a good deal. Inbreeding is such an irresponsible thing to do. There are so many reasons not to do something like this, poor hatch rate, birth defects, poor development, dead in shell, infertility, poor growth, weakened immune systems, weakened internal organs, shorter life span, improper feathering, weak feather structure. And you said the male has no tail? If he is poorly bred to begin with and has weak tail feathers or defective feather follicles, all you are doing is amplifying that! You didn't mention what the bird's colors are either. Again, you can have problems here as well, especially if you are breeding like colors together such as two lutinos. 

Please, for the health of your birds and the health of any potential babies, please read more before you allow them to continue mating. Get the hen an appropriate mate and let the old guy retire!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

That one inbred generation can have serious birth defects. Your best bet is to make sure that these eggs don't hatch. Removing the eggs now might make the hen keep on laying trying to get a full clutch. But you can boil the eggs, let them cool, and put them back in the nest, or you can replace them with fake eggs like these: http://theeggshop.com/ Then start working hard on hormone reduction so they lose interest in breeding before they realize the eggs aren't going to hatch and start working on a new clutch.

Getting a new male to freshen the gene pool might not work if these two are already bonded. They have presumably been together for all nine years of Pearl's life, and she might not want to ditch Dad for a new male.

I have a brother/sister pair and they have the strongest pair bond in the house. I do my best to prevent egg laying, and when they do it in spite of my best efforts I take away the real eggs and leave fake eggs in their place.


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## Dreamcatchers (Apr 17, 2011)

And to answer your question earlier - you CAN candle eggs as early as 3 or 4 days.  Srtiels has some excellent photos on what to look for.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

TheBirdman said:


> I just said I was going to prevent this from happening, I'm sorry, I didn't know that just one inbred generation messed stuff up so bad.


------------------------------------------------ 
You have no background on the male. 

A form of inbreeding is done with show breeders....they call it line-breeding. Sadly the examples of the fatal genes and the babies dying at weaning were my personal experiences from these so called line-bred stock, which came from one of the best breeders in the country. It is a horrible, helpless feeling when you try everything in your power to save a baby and learn that it was their genetic background that resulted in their deaths.

On the flip-side, your babies may be OK, but there is no guarantee that they will not pass recessive lethal genes to the next generation.

Rather than jump into breeding this pair, find mates for each bird. Or if one bird is tam, keep it as a pet only and find a unrelated mate for the other one.


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## angelmommy24 (Nov 20, 2011)

I'm not sure if my previous post went but in my opinion I would take the box down boil the eggs and seperate the birds to prevent any mating and allow them to visit under supervision


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Dreamcatchers said:


> And to answer your question earlier - you CAN candle eggs as early as 3 or 4 days.  Srtiels has some excellent photos on what to look for.


---------------------------------

I have learned that you can determine if an egg is fertile by 12-24 hours of 24/7 incubation. If fertile the yolk area will have a shadow. By day 3 a throbbing heartbeat is detected and veins radiating from the embryo. By 4-5 days eye color/mutation can be determined.


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## TheBirdman (Jan 20, 2012)

Alright, Ill do that. Sorry about this, guys, I didn't actually try to breed them, they just went ahead with it.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

TheBirdman said:


> Alright, Ill do that. Sorry about this, guys, I didn't actually try to breed them, they just went ahead with it.


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Sorry to come off so blunt, but my first concern is always with the birds, at the expense of a humans feeling.

What you will learn as you are around tiels is that they like recreational sex....even related birds. When an egg is seen it is best to ignore it and not give a nestbox. As to caging make sure the cage grate is in the bottom of the cage so that as bird does not have access to the cage bottom which can also trigger nesting behavior and egg-laying with hens. 

Part of the reason your hen may have laid is more of a genetic instinct to procreate, which was stimulated by the move. It is such a big change for them that survival instincts are kicking in. This does not mean that they are a bonded pair, it may just be a result of hormones kicking in from being in a new environment.

Since they are new birds try to keep things familiar to them....meaning initially feeding them the same diet their prior owner did. Initially start with the same daytime and nightime hours the prior owner did in regards to lighting, etc. Are they in the same cage or a new cage from what they are used to? If a new cage you can set it up similar to what they are used to.

You might ask the prior owner if there has been eggs in the past, and if so, what did he do, or what were the results.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> they just went ahead with it.


Birds do that sometimes. I'm glad you came here and posted about the situation so we could advise you. If this pair actually hatched out the eggs you could have unintentionally set yourself up for a sad situation.


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