# First Eggs Ever



## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

My lutino cockatiel is about 7 years old. She has a mate, but she's never laid eggs before. I came home tonight to find she had laid a very tiny egg at the bottom of the cage. Without noticing at first, I let her out of the cage and she laid another egg. This one is much, much larger and was laid on top of the cage.

I have never dealt with this before. I know about candling and that there may be more eggs, but not much else. I called around and ended up making a nesting box out of a shoebox. It has Kaytee Kay-bob bed and littering on the bottom, with a dent in the middle for the eggs to lay in.

So, a few questions/notes:

1. Is a shoe box good enough for a nesting box?
2. The pair is just ignoring the 2 eggs right now. Is that normal?
3. Does the size of the eggs indicate fertility? If not, why are the egg sizes so different?

Please help me out! Thanks!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Pictures of the eggs would really help. You could either have one egg that doesn't have a yolk in it OR twins in the larger egg, but only pictures will tell us that.

The shoe box will work just make sure you have extra tops in case they chew the top off. I would switch the bedding to pine or aspen bedding though, I don't trust that kay-bob stuff, it may not maintain enough moisture for the eggs to hatch.

They may not start sitting on the eggs until she has laid a whole clutch. Or they may not sit at all if they weren't expecting her to have eggs either. Its gonna be a wait and see type thing for now.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

roxy culver said:


> Pictures of the eggs would really help. You could either have one egg that doesn't have a yolk in it OR twins in the larger egg, but only pictures will tell us that.
> 
> The shoe box will work just make sure you have extra tops in case they chew the top off. I would switch the bedding to pine or aspen bedding though, I don't trust that kay-bob stuff, it may not maintain enough moisture for the eggs to hatch.
> 
> They may not start sitting on the eggs until she has laid a whole clutch. Or they may not sit at all if they weren't expecting her to have eggs either. Its gonna be a wait and see type thing for now.


I will have to get new bedding tomorrow, all the stores are closed early on Sunday. Darn. Also will have to pick up some cuttlebones...

Here's a picture:

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd260/diamondpearl876/P7211796.jpg


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

The first egg is infertile, its not big enough to contain a yolk to support a baby. This usually happens when the egg moves too fast as it develops, it skips the yolk and keeps on going.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

roxy culver said:


> The first egg is infertile, its not big enough to contain a yolk to support a baby. This usually happens when the egg moves too fast as it develops, it skips the yolk and keeps on going.


All right. I will still leave it alone for now though.

Another question: is it okay if I touched the bigger egg in order to move it into the nesting box?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Have your birds been mating, or is this a solo effort by the hen? The tone of your posts implies that you think the eggs could be fertile but I'd like to make sure of it.

We have a sticky thread on nestboxes and litter that might be helpful: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27688 It's fine to use a shoebox for the nest as long as you watch out for potential safety issues and deal with them. For example, stability of the box as parents go in and out, excessive chewing of the box, not possible for eggs/babies to fall out, etc.

It's best to wash your hands before touching the eggs because the shells are porous and it's possible for bacteria from your hands to pass through. But it's a low risk so there was probably no harm done. Touching the eggs will NOT lead to the parents abandoning them, they don't care what the eggs smell like.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

tielfan said:


> Have your birds been mating, or is this a solo effort by the hen? The tone of your posts implies that you think the eggs could be fertile but I'd like to make sure of it.
> 
> We have a sticky thread on nestboxes and litter that might be helpful: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27688 It's fine to use a shoebox for the nest as long as you watch out for potential safety issues and deal with them. For example, stability of the box as parents go in and out, excessive chewing of the box, not possible for eggs/babies to fall out, etc.
> 
> It's best to wash your hands before touching the eggs because the shells are porous and it's possible for bacteria from your hands to pass through. But it's a low risk so there was probably no harm done. Touching the eggs will NOT lead to the parents abandoning them, they don't care what the eggs smell like.


Yes, they've been mating. I had been doing the long night treatment and such to prevent aggression from the male but I guess it didn't stop mating.

Thanks for the comment and link!


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## Camtaro (Oct 19, 2012)

kmlepri said:


> So, a few questions/notes:
> 
> 1. Is a shoe box good enough for a nesting box?
> 2. The pair is just ignoring the 2 eggs right now. Is that normal?
> ...


1 - No, go buy a real wooden 15-20$ pre-made one specifically for cockatiels at your local petstore. Also don't use that kaytee bedding crap. Use larger flake shred bedding that low dust, oderless, and safe for cockatiels. Something you'd image 2 tiny little toothpick sized soft gooey legs can stand up and remain supportive on.

2 - Yes, they don't typically start roosting on them till there are 4 or more. Whenever they feel they are ready to start the incubation process. They stay in stasis till then. Once they do incubate, if they leave the nest and the eggs chill due to poor environment you will have DIS. However just because she laid eggs, doesn't necessarily mean they are fertile. You wont be able to tell till incubation.

3 - Yes and no. There is a proper size and shape for an average healthy egg.

4 - To help curb the aggression from the male you can put him in a time out cage in a separate room for 15 minute intervals whenever he has his attacking outbursts or screeches. This worked very well for my young, in-experienced, frustrated and molting male. He used to attack his partner during and after mating. Now he does not and rarely ever attacks her in any situation.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> No, go buy a real wooden 15-20$ pre-made one specifically for cockatiels at your local petstore.


A wooden box is ideal but a lot of people have been successful with homemade nestboxes. There have also been some disasters; the most common one seems to be placing the doorway too low in the box, allowing the babies to fall out of the nest when they're old enough to walk around a little but much too young to fly. But a well-designed homemade nestbox can work just as well as a commercial nestbox.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

tielfan said:


> A wooden box is ideal but a lot of people have been successful with homemade nestboxes. There have also been some disasters; the most common one seems to be placing the doorway too low in the box, allowing the babies to fall out of the nest when they're old enough to walk around a little but much too young to fly. But a well-designed homemade nestbox can work just as well as a commercial nestbox.


I bought a nestbox just in case, since this is my first time having cockatiel eggs.

Is it normal that she laid 2 eggs in 2 hours? She still hasn't laid anymore since I posted, but I'm expecting some more tomorrow if the wait is 48 hours.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It isn't normal to lay eggs that quickly, but one of the eggs was abnormal so that might have something to do with it. This is just guesswork, but the tiny egg might have been too small for her body to push it out naturally, and it was basically pushed out by the larger egg behind it. Eggs are usually laid approximately every other day.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

tielfan said:


> It isn't normal to lay eggs that quickly, but one of the eggs was abnormal so that might have something to do with it. This is just guesswork, but the tiny egg might have been too small for her body to push it out naturally, and it was basically pushed out by the larger egg behind it. Eggs are usually laid approximately every other day.


If she doesn't lay any more eggs, should I consider taking her to the vet? Right now she is acting as if nothing ever happened. I also never expected the eggs to come because she was acting normal. For some reason I still keep thinking she won't lay any more and that there's some problems.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It's possible that she won't lay any more eggs. She's obviously hormonal enough to lay at least one egg (I'm not sure the small one really counts) but it sounds like she isn't acting particularly nesty so she might not be hormonal enough to do anything else. If she doesn't lay any more eggs and seems to be healthy, I don't think you need to take her to the vet. But you need to see the vet if she doesn't lay any more eggs and seems to be in distress, because that could be egg binding.

If she doesn't lay any more eggs and doesn't tend the one good egg she already has, you can use hormone control techniques to help make sure she doesn't ramp back up again: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=32330


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

Last question for now: Her tail feathers are sticking further down than normal. Is this a sign of laying eggs soon/is it a problem?

I've seen other signs like drinking lots of water and rarely pooping, and her vent looks slightly bigger, but that's about it.


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

Are her poops huge and watery looking?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Yes the lowered wings can be a sign that she might lay again. She may not sit on the eggs til she's laid a whole clutch.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

Baruch said:


> Are her poops huge and watery looking?


She just pooped twice in a short amount of time. Wasn't in time to see the first one, but the 2nd one looked normal. She is also drinking and eating a lot more than normal.

EDIT: She waited until I let her out of the cage to poop, if that matters.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

She may be viewing the cage as a nest and that's why she's holding her poop while in there...


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> She waited until I let her out of the cage to poop, if that matters.


Many birds don't like to poop in the cage when they're breeding. I suspect that this is a natural instinct to avoid having a big pile of poop at the bottom of the nest tree that could signal a predator that there's a nest up above. You'll need to take her out of the cage periodically so she can "let go". Your male might do the same thing so keep an eye on him too.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

Well, everything went back to normal pretty quickly (normal droppings, non-hormonal behavior, etc). I decided to incubate the one good egg by myself. With the light I can already see a large-ish dark patch and some dark spots. Is this a good sign that it could be fertile?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It certainly sounds like a fertile egg. Is there any red coloring or red glow when you candle the egg? That would be an indication that it's still viable. If it's all dark/brownish then it might be DIS.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

tielfan said:


> It certainly sounds like a fertile egg. Is there any red coloring or red glow when you candle the egg? That would be an indication that it's still viable. If it's all dark/brownish then it might be DIS.


It looks like an orange-ish glow, no definite red. It's only day one, so I still have time to see, right?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If it's only day one it's really too soon to see anything, and I'm not sure what the dark spots are that you're seeing. A big yellowish spot in the middle is the yolk. If it's fertile you'll start to see red veins around day 5. 

A less than ideal light could make it look orange-ish. An ideal light is very bright with a narrow beam, so that lots of light goes into the egg but no light spills around the sides. A small LED flashlight whose "business end" is narrower than the egg is perfect.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

tielfan said:


> If it's only day one it's really too soon to see anything, and I'm not sure what the dark spots are that you're seeing. A big yellowish spot in the middle is the yolk. If it's fertile you'll start to see red veins around day 5.
> 
> A less than ideal light could make it look orange-ish. An ideal light is very bright with a narrow beam, so that lots of light goes into the egg but no light spills around the sides. A small LED flashlight whose "business end" is narrower than the egg is perfect.


I used a different light like you described and saw a big yellow spot in the middle instead. Thanks for all your help. I'll just have to be patient and wait for day 5!


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

Sorry about the double post, but it is the end of day 4 now. The yellow spot seems to be getting a bit darker and I can only see it when I shine on one spot on the egg. Is this normal?


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

Camtaro said:


> 1 - No, go buy a real wooden 15-20$ pre-made one specifically for cockatiels at your local petstore. Also don't use that kaytee bedding crap. Use larger flake shred bedding that low dust, oderless, and safe for cockatiels. Something you'd image 2 tiny little toothpick sized soft gooey legs can stand up and remain supportive on.
> 
> 2 - Yes, they don't typically start roosting on them till there are 4 or more. Whenever they feel they are ready to start the incubation process. They stay in stasis till then. Once they do incubate, if they leave the nest and the eggs chill due to poor environment you will have DIS. However just because she laid eggs, doesn't necessarily mean they are fertile. You wont be able to tell till incubation.
> 
> ...


This is not true. 

1. You can use a box if needed for emergencies, but I noticed my hen didn't lay her eggs until I bought them a real nest box, they may have just not liked it. 
2. Hens can either wait for the whole clutch to be laid or lay on them as they come. Mine didn't wait. She laid one and began sitting immediately. If it's an experienced pair, the male ma either help in the incubation process (like mine does), or let the female incubate and he feeds her, or if it's warm enough she will do everything on her own (this is usually in an immature male). If they're immature breeders, they may just not know what to do, but usually they go on instinct. 
3. It's best if they are consistent, but the bigger the egg usually means double yolk. Just ensure your hen is getting the proper Nutrients. 
4. Are you sure these two are bonded properly? I don't know if it's normal for a male to attack a female if they're bonded...


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

dshiro2012 said:


> This is not true.
> 
> 1. You can use a box if needed for emergencies, but I noticed my hen didn't lay her eggs until I bought them a real nest box, they may have just not liked it.
> 2. Hens can either wait for the whole clutch to be laid or lay on them as they come. Mine didn't wait. She laid one and began sitting immediately. If it's an experienced pair, the male ma either help in the incubation process (like mine does), or let the female incubate and he feeds her, or if it's warm enough she will do everything on her own (this is usually in an immature male). If they're immature breeders, they may just not know what to do, but usually they go on instinct.
> ...


I bought the box, but they don't seem interested in it.

They seem to be bonded, as they play together, eat together, sleep together, etc... The male just chases her around on the floor and attacks her when I try to pick her up (she can't fly), as he doesn't want her to leave apparently. He used to attack her out of nowhere a lot but I stopped that. Occasionally they bicker still though.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> it is the end of day 4 now. The yellow spot seems to be getting a bit darker and I can only see it when I shine on one spot on the egg. Is this normal?


I don't really know what this means. If you candle again in a couple of days, you should be able to see red veins if the egg is fertile and viable.


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

kmlepri said:


> I bought the box, but they don't seem interested in it.
> 
> They seem to be bonded, as they play together, eat together, sleep together, etc... The male just chases her around on the floor and attacks her when I try to pick her up (she can't fly), as he doesn't want her to leave apparently. He used to attack her out of nowhere a lot but I stopped that. Occasionally they bicker still though.


Well it took mine a day for them to check it out, and then a little while for them to actually go in and start messing with it...

Bickering I wouldn't worry about, my breeding pair have their moments, too. 

I'd just keep an eye out. If it starts looking too serious, I'd remove the male. If the female continues to not lay eggs or show interest in them, I'd take them out after getting an incubator and incubate them on my own.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> 1. You can use a box if needed for emergencies, but I noticed my hen didn't lay her eggs until I bought them a real nest box, they may have just not liked it.


Tiels will lay in any spot they feel is nest-like...I have used cardboard shoe boxes with success. It does not need to be a premade fancy one. 

2. It is uncommon for a male to feed a hen in tiels, this is seen other birds where the hen is the only one that sits. Even with my pairs that had hens that sat 24/7, the males would sit when the hen needed to eat and poop. So I wouldn't count on the male feeding the hen as that's not normal for tiels.

Bickering is normal...it could be that he sees you as a threat and is trying to get her to get away from you. I'd be careful about that.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> I bought the box, but they don't seem interested in it.


Birds that have already established a nest in an odd spot may not be interested if a nestbox is offered later. When Shodu lays eggs in an odd spot, I can put up a nestbox and put the eggs in it, and she'll be inside and happy as a clam within minutes. But there are some birds that will abandon the eggs if you do this because they prefer the old location. It all depends on the individual.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

It is now the end of day five and I'm still not seeing much. Am I missing something? The marks on the egg were there when it was laid. 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd260/diamondpearl876/20130812_131210.jpg


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I'm not seeing anything either. They've been sitting consistently? And you saw them mate properly? If this is their first time the first clutch might be infertile. I would leave the egg for longer and check it in a couple more days.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

roxy culver said:


> I'm not seeing anything either. They've been sitting consistently? And you saw them mate properly? If this is their first time the first clutch might be infertile. I would leave the egg for longer and check it in a couple more days.


I had to incubate the egg myself. The light has not been off once. I see them mate a lot, but this is the first time she's laid an egg. Is it also possible that since it is the first egg that it may be developing more slowly?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

No I've never heard of that. I'm not sure that its going to be fertile.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

The egg was not fertile.

Just 30 minutes ago she laid another egg though. This time it was just 1 big one instead of 1 big, 1 little. And the two are pecking at it and making it roll around the cage to the corner. They didn't do that last time. Is this normal? Probably just looking for a place to take care of it? Not sure...


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

They may not know what to do with it. Did you take the box out?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

roxy culver said:


> They may not know what to do with it. Did you take the box out?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yes. I had to make a new one because I moved away from home and all my materials are still at home. The egg is cushioned in it and they seem to be giving this one much more attention than they gave the last one.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

How long during the day are cockatiels supposed to sit on the eggs? My male sits on 2 out of the 3 at a time and still wants to come out of the cage to play. Haven't seen the female sit on them yet.


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

One of my pair who have eggs at the moment sit on them all day, and all night, unless they come out to eat/drink/poop but then they go straight back in and sit on the eggs again, most of the time they are both sitting on the eggs, and other times they take turns.

As for your pair, maybe it is because it is their first time and they aren’t quite sure what to do.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The incubation should be more or less continuous, with only brief breaks. Typically the male sits in the daytime and the female sits at night. Sounds like your pair hasn't quite gotten their act together yet.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

tielfan said:


> The incubation should be more or less continuous, with only brief breaks. Typically the male sits in the daytime and the female sits at night. Sounds like your pair hasn't quite gotten their act together yet.


Thanks, you two. I have a feeling the female is waiting for something, perhaps to lay more eggs, while the male hasn't caught on to this. It will be 48 hours since she laid the 3rd egg in about 8 hours so I will see if another one comes along and how they react.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

Sorry for the double post, but people don't notice edits.

My male sits on the eggs all day now and I have an incubator for them at night, because my female will still not sit on them. There are five eggs now, and two are officially fertile, so I know the incubator is working well as a replacement. I can only think of two reasons she doesn't sit on them: she doesn't think of the cage as a nest or she's waiting to lay a whole clutch for some reason. Are either of these theories plausible, or is it something else?


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Maybe your pair isn't bonded, so the female doesn't want to co-parent with the male. Also, you have inexperienced parents..they don't always sit on eggs as tightly as they should. Or it could be that the female doesn't feel like the environment is safe enough to bring up chicks right now. She may not feed chicks when they hatch either. :/

Also, if you want people to notice an edit in your post, you can just type 'EDIT: .....' at the bottom of the post you're editing to add information to it.



For example..

EDIT: This is where and how I would write stuff if I wanted to add or change information I wrote in this post.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

bjknight93 said:


> Maybe your pair isn't bonded, so the female doesn't want to co-parent with the male. Also, you have inexperienced parents..they don't always sit on eggs as tightly as they should. Or it could be that the female doesn't feel like the environment is safe enough to bring up chicks right now. She may not feed chicks when they hatch either. :/
> 
> Also, if you want people to notice an edit in your post, you can just type 'EDIT: .....' at the bottom of the post you're editing to add information to it.
> 
> ...


The last point sounds most likely. The male can be very aggressive toward her, so she may think it is unsafe. Thanks for your input.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Five eggs is a typical clutch size for many hens but some will go for a LOT more than that. You'll just have to wait and see whether any more eggs appear before you can be sure about her motives.

It's possible that she might sit on the eggs at night if you put the male in a different cage at bedtime. She would probably feel safer if he didn't have the option of coming into the nest and beating the crap out of her. You don't want to risk the real eggs of course, but if you have some fake eggs you could put them in the nest, put daddy in a different cage, and see what mommy does.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

It sounds like they aren't bonded. Bonded birds will bicker, but if he is downright aggressive toward her often then I don't think they're bonded. It probably wouldn't be a good idea to try to hatch any future eggs from them because you'll have the same issues that you're having now. 5 babies is a lot for one bird to raise on its own. If mom won't feed the chicks when they hatch, you may need to co-parent the chicks.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

I will try putting the male in another cage tonight. It is a small traveling cage but if it's just for sleep he should be fine.

I will not be trying to be getting more eggs after this... I never was trying because I can't even keep the babies because of parent house rules. I just never thought they'd have eggs because they are both 7-8 years old and this has never happened before, even though they've always been pretty hormonal. They also act bonded in every other way (eat together, sleep together, preen each other, etc) so I'm never sure if they're really bonded or not. 

As for co-parenting, is there any resources I could look at to learn how to feed them? I have never handfed a baby bird before or tamed a bird.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

You _can_ watch YouTube videos to get an idea. But it would be best if a vet or breeder near by, with handfeeding experience, showed you in person. 

There is some basic hand feeding information in our sticky library that you can look at too. You will need a gram scale to weigh the babies, a food thermometer, a hand feeding syringe, and parrot formula.

Also, handling the babies often while they're in the nest and after they leave the nest should tame them up just fine.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

I will be going to the store to get everything soon. I looked it up and it said food should be between 104-106 degrees? Does that sound right? It sounds awfully hot to me.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Nope that's correct. And you want to make sure it stays that temp the whole time you are feeding otherwise you could make the babies sick. A bird's body temp is higher than a humans, hence the temp of the food.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Check the food temperature carefully; food that is too hot can burn the baby's crop, and food that is too cool will cause digestion problems. If I remember correctly, it's somewhere in the 112-114 range that you start to encounter a burn risk. I never serve the food until it's fallen below 110, and I warm it up again if it's 102 or less. The formula is going to cool off a bit when you suck it into the syringe and while you're getting ready to deliver it to the baby, so there's a balancing act. This is all Fahrenheit by the way, the Celsius temperatures are MUCH less than this. 

Do NOT heat up formula by microwaving it! Microwave heat is somewhat uneven and you may get hot spots in the formula that can burn the chick. Instead you can microwave the water and then mix it into the formula. I stir it with the thermometer so I can be sure that the temperature is the same everywhere. Putting the formula cup in a bowl of warm water while you're feeding a baby will help keep it warm, and if it cools off too much you can nuke the water bowl (not the formula) then put the formula cup back in the bowl until it warms up to the right temperature.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

Okay. I have been looking at different resources and this is what I will be buying today: 5 syringes, formula, gram scale, thermometer. Possibly a heating pad. Is a heating pad necessary? Will my lamp suffice? Will my heating blanket work as long as there is padding underneath and above it, and I can control the temperature with it? 

To feed, I have other questions: 

1. How much should I feed per feeding? How often should I feed them when I will (hopefully) be having the male feed them as well?
2. Where can I find out how much a baby should weigh on certain days?

Tips and rules I've seen:

- The food must go down the right tube of baby's throat
- Heating pad must be padded underneath/above
- Do not heat formula in microwave and keep formula cup in hot water
- 102-106 degrees for food
- Weaning can take as long as 12 weeks, but normally 8-10 weeks
- Clean syringe after each use and use one syringe per baby

Is there anything else I should know? I still have to find someone to show me how to feed them.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I think most people use the same syringe to feed the whole clutch. Those babies are in very close contact with each other anyway so they're already sharing germs. If you had more than one clutch you should use a different syringe for each one. It's nice to have some extra syringes, because then you can gave each one a quick rinse right after you use it, then give all the used ones a good cleaning at the end of the day.

srtiels has some handfeeding info in the articles section of her ICR website: http://www.internationalcockatielresource.com/articles.html This article in our sticky library also has a lot of info: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=18189


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

tielfan said:


> I think most people use the same syringe to feed the whole clutch. Those babies are in very close contact with each other anyway so they're already sharing germs. If you had more than one clutch you should use a different syringe for each one. It's nice to have some extra syringes, because then you can gave each one a quick rinse right after you use it, then give all the used ones a good cleaning at the end of the day.
> 
> srtiels has some handfeeding info in the articles section of her ICR website: http://www.internationalcockatielresource.com/articles.html This article in our sticky library also has a lot of info: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=18189


I already bought 4 but I will keep that in mind. It makes sense that they're already sharing germs anyway. 

Also, what would the dad possibly feed the baby cockatiels? I talked to my uncle a while ago when they laid the first infertile eggs, and he said I should put a bowl of corn for the dad to feed them. Is there anything else I should put in there, or will the dad take care of it himself?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Corn is OK but it's not enough. It's essential for the babies to get high-quality nutritious foods to support their growth, and babies that don't have an excellent diet can have lifelong problems. I have information on breeding diet at http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/nutrition-tieldiet.html#breeders with information on general diet in the earlier part of the article.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

Okay. I have one last question for now: I heard it's normal for the parents to stop sitting on the eggs a few days before hatching. Is this true? Should I be turning off my incubator for these days as well?


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

Nevermind... The male went on a rampage and ended up putting holes in all the eggs and making the female bleed everywhere. Thanks for all your help...


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

Oh dear, I am really worried Mishka is going to do the same thing since the eggs arenꞋt his technically. I wonder what caused him to do that, I am so sorry. I hope the female is okay though?!


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I would separate the birds and keep them separate permanently.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

bjknight93 said:


> I would separate the birds and keep them separate permanently.


Already done. They can be together when I'm home but definitely not when I'm not here. Also one of the eggs is still showing signs of movement despite the hole, but I won't hold my breath for it.


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

I wouldn't worry about the eggs anymore 
How is the female doing? I hope she's OK?!
Is the injury that bad?


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## devilangel09 (Feb 5, 2008)

If she was bleeding everywhere hope you took her vets


Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

I did take the female to the vet. They bandaged her wing to help it scab over, and she is on an anti-inflammatory and antibiotic medicine.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Do you have any idea why the male did this?


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

tielfan said:


> Do you have any idea why the male did this?


Well, he would nip at her when she went near the eggs while he was sitting on them, so maybe she aggravated him too much. My second guess is that he was aggravated she wasn't doing anything for the eggs. My third guess is he had too much pent up hormonal things going on; I know she was hormonal too because she kept trying to get him to mate with her while he was sitting on the eggs.

Though he's attacked her before, just never this bad. He is just a very aggressive cockatiel. I separated them this summer while I was home, and put them back together when he got calmer. I took them to college with me instead of my other cockatiels just in case he got violent again, which obviously he did. Now they will have to be separated again and go through the 12 hour night treatment. Also I'm going to have to find a way to prevent them from going under my bed and nesting...


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

You can put something under the bed to block the way. If you don't have anything that you could actually store there, put some bricks in plastic boxes for weight and stick an old bedspread or something in front of it as a barrier. Do NOT use cardboard boxes though - I found out the hard way that they'll quickly chew a hole in it and voila, instant nestbox.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

After thinking about this for a while, I'm going to guess that the male was frustrated because the female wasn't playing by the rules. He ended up lashing out at her in the nestbox and the eggs were accidentally broken during the fight.

There usually isn't any more mating after the eggs have been laid, and the mating often ends when the egg laying begins. It sounds like the hen didn't understand how the breeding process was supposed to play out, and she was trying to restart the breeding cycle so she could double clutch. The male had a better idea of what was supposed to happen so the attempts at mating were confusing and annoying to him. 

It's usually the male's job to sit in the daytime and the hen's job to sit at night, so it might also have been confusing and annoying if the hen was coming in to him during the daytime. Males do take breaks during the day so they can eat and I don't think it's abnormal for the hen to initiate the process. But if she was coming in and then not sitting on the eggs, or coming in when he wasn't ready for a break, that would probably annoy him. 

I had sort of the opposite problem when Buster and Shodu had their first clutch. When he came out for a break he wanted her to immediately go into the nest to tend the eggs. She usually didn't do it, so he would chase her around viciously until she went into the nest to get away from him. When he was ready to go back on duty, he'd go into the nest and they would change places peacefully. With subsequent clutches, Shodu would go in as soon as he came out so there was no more fighting.

It's possible that your hen might eventually figure out how the breeding process is supposed to work, but if you ever want to breed her again I think would be better to pair her with a more laid-back male. This one obviously takes his job very seriously, and it's hazardous to everyone to put him with this hen.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

tielfan said:


> After thinking about this for a while, I'm going to guess that the male was frustrated because the female wasn't playing by the rules. He ended up lashing out at her in the nestbox and the eggs were accidentally broken during the fight.
> 
> There usually isn't any more mating after the eggs have been laid, and the mating often ends when the egg laying begins. It sounds like the hen didn't understand how the breeding process was supposed to play out, and she was trying to restart the breeding cycle so she could double clutch. The male had a better idea of what was supposed to happen so the attempts at mating were confusing and annoying to him.
> 
> ...


Those reasons are the same ones I was thinking of too. I probably won't breed her again because the only other male I have is already bonded with a female, and he's never very hormonal anyway. I didn't mean to mate in the first place!

Anyway, thank you guys. Hopefully I can prevent this is the future.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

One last question... (I know I always says this...)

I felt bad just throwing out the eggs without knowing they were officially dead so I've still been candling them. This one has very obvious and active movement going on. Is there any way this is still alive? PLEASE NOTE that the egg looks much more like DARK RED in real life and on my phone picture, but on the computer it looks like as you see it. I don't know why.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd260/diamondpearl876/1280458_661274350557326_744921005_n.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd260/diamondpearl876/2222.jpg


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

Glad she is okay! 

If you are able to see movement inside of the egg, then it sounds like the embryo is still alive, I think I can see red veins in the first photo too.


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## kmlepri (May 16, 2013)

Renae said:


> Glad she is okay!
> 
> If you are able to see movement inside of the egg, then it sounds like the embryo is still alive, I think I can see red veins in the first photo too.


Will the embryo grow slower with the egg damage or with just a incubator for heat? It's looked like this for about 4 days now. I don't know how old it was when it got damaged anymore.


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

kmlepri said:


> Will the embryo grow slower with the egg damage or with just a incubator for heat? It's looked like this for about 4 days now. I don't know how old it was when it got damaged anymore.


I am honestly not sure, sorry.  I think the best person to talk to would be Susanne (there is a form here http://www.internationalcockatielresource.com/contact-us.html you fill out and send to her, and she also has a phone/cell number there as well) and ask her what she thinks, if you have Facebook, she has a group on there ‘International Cockatiel Resource’ that she posts on. Hope everything goes well with the egg, someone else may be able to be of more help than me.


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