# Do i need to start again



## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

Last 3-4 weeks now i have noticed lucky to be odd
Lucky would let me pet her and give her loads of kisses and super cuddly when moulting and not afraid of my hands.
Lucky will not let me pet her at all when my hand goes to her crest she will back away, if i stick my finger towards her she will nibble on my fingers and nails so she not scared of my hands.
I used to rub my cheek against her and she would peck me saying you can pet me now, but last few weeks she will back away.
I think its maybe since she is fully flighted again she don't want to know me at all, im not going to clip her wings again.
The bird table what i have with toys and food on well thay have lost interest in that, they rather spend their time on top of the curtain pole or on top of the cage.
I tried training her with seed as i got no millet but she was having none of it, i will get millet on friday or saturday when im out, cant really get anywhere as the snow is just keep on falling nearly full week of non stop snow.
Lucky is 7 months now could she be just moody teenager
i herd boys are worse but girls are ment to be cuddly (she was but not now)
She is upsetting me because i dont know why she is acting like this


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## Belinda (Oct 9, 2010)

if she has just moulted she might have some tender pin feathers?


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## Superstar (Dec 1, 2010)

I have noticed all birds all species will go through these phases where they will test your patience. what worked best for me is to just be consistent and keep trying to interact. if you back off to their moody advances you will show them that they have control over you. Like you said, they are a moody teenager haha! Lasa went thru this as well but we have gotten over it. He is also full flighted now and is just as attached to me as he was before when he was clipped. these birds are smarter than you think and know what they are doing haha its amazing what they can comprehend.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

I cant wait for her to be so cuddly again


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> if you back off to their moody advances you will show them that they have control over you.


I would disagree with this. Birds don't control each other in the wild and don't really understand the concept. If you force interaction when the bird doesn't want it, you risk getting bitten. So be social without being annoying, buy that millet spray, and try to make her WANT your attention.

Henry used to love scritches, then one day about a year and a half ago he got scared for no apparent reason and wanted nothing to do with me. It took weeks just to get him to start liking me again, and even when he started adoring me he wouldn't allow scritchies. I've almost got him won over though - he's just started letting me touch his head without getting all bent out of shape about it.


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## mpayjr (Aug 16, 2010)

My newborns do the same thing. When they were a few weeks old they were begging for scritches, now they are a little over a month and fly and avoid me as much as possible. On top of that, it's still kind of tough to train them since only one of the three is (openly, I never see the eldest and youngest do so) eating millet.


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## Superstar (Dec 1, 2010)

> Birds don't control each other in the wild and don't really understand the concept


I also disagree. Birds will fight for dominance in the wild. This is proven and I have done research. This is why it is recommended to introduce a new bird into a cage if you decide to get a new bird instead of just moving them in right away. aside from the risk of psittacosis, birds can get territorial with another bird that is not yet apart of their flock. They will fight and could injure each other. So yes, control was a poor choice of wording, but they do challenge other birds (or people) even if they accepted them before. and also if you back down from nips and bites, and they learn that you react to their actions, they find this fun and will also continue this behaviour theirfore you need to change unwanted behaviour. example...if you don't flinch or pull away from a bite they will learn that it doesn't affect you and will quit such behaviour. it is possible to train your bird to a point and I have used these behavioural trainings to help my lasa be more part of the family and he is an excellent, well ajusted cockatiel


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Birds will fight for dominance in the wild.


Some birds, yes. Parrots (including cockatiels), no. At least according to Steve Martin who is a highly respected parrot trainer. Here's a paper on the subject that he published through the World Parrot Trust. http://www.naturalencounters.com/images/Publications&Presentations/Height_Dominance-Steve_Martin.pdf This isn't just his personal opinion, he also discussed the subject with several researchers who study parrots in the wild. The article specifically deals with height dominance but most of the article talks about general behavior principles for parrots.

Here's an article by Susan Friedman saying basically the same thing: http://www.behaviorworks.org/files/articles/The Struggle for Dominance 2001.pdf She is a MAJOR player in the behavioral field. I have more links but these two authors have the best credentials. The idea that parrots seek dominance is outdated but you still hear it a lot on the internet because a lot of people don't know that our understanding of parrot behavior has changed.

Birds DO fight over things that they both want. But it isn't about dominance or trying to be the flock leader, it's more like little kids squabbling over a toy.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

So it must be a phase she is going through then if she not the only one
Cant wait for her to be cuddly again, guess i get lots of millet to win her back


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## Superstar (Dec 1, 2010)

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree because I've seen this numerous times. If you put a new bird in a cage with a resident older bird, that older bird nine times out of ten will attack that new bird. Happened with my parakeets even though I introduced them by putting the new bird in a cage next to the older bird. Bluejay does not want green bean in his cage at all. Now I'm sure that isn't just a squabble over a toy. I've seen some serious injuries in the pet store i used to work at bc of this very same reason.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> If you put a new bird in a cage with a resident older bird, that older bird nine times out of ten will attack that new bird.


That's territorial defense, not dominance. In essence, the new bird is invading the old bird's nest and it's instinctive to defend it. If you put a resident bird and a new bird in a brand new cage or some other neutral spot, you're much less likely to have problems. This is why it's generally recommended that you introduce birds to each other in a neutral location.

Hummingbirds are an excellent example of the difference between territorialism and dominance. They defend their territory very aggressively but there's no way this can be called dominance. Dominance is an ongoing social relationship in a group where one or more individuals have a superior rank and the others are inferior. Hummingbirds don't live in groups - they're solitary, so dominance doesn't come into the picture. The males and females get together just long enough to copulate, and the female's relationship with the chicks ends shortly after they leave the nest. Hummers even migrate alone, up to 4,000 miles each way.


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