# I don't know what to do....



## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

About 6 months ago my Tommy had a lump on his keel. I brought him to see my vet and she told me it was caused from him bumping into something more than once. She gave me some ointment to put on it till it healed. It was getting worse and worse and so I looked for and found another vet and I took him there for a different opinion. She told me it's not from bumping himself cause birds just don't do that and that's exactly what I had thought and why I looked for a different vet. Well she said it's an ingrown feather and it needs to be removed and so she gave me some antibiotic medicine to give to him for a week and than I brought him back in to see her. Due to his age (13 yrs old) the vet didn't want to put him under anesthesia said it could be bad at his age, even though he is healthy. So she proceeds to soak it with peroxide and work it out of him using a swab. She than tells me to schedule another appointment for the following week. The next week he is scabbing over and it looks nasty, she gives me medicine to put on it and in another week it looks worse than it did. Turns out he's allergic to the medicine, so than when it's been over a month and Tommy has been on antibiotics for over a month and allergic to the medicine. She than takes him off of the antibiotic and puts him on this gel that has vitamins and minerals and probiotic in it. In the mean time he's not getting any better it just looking worse and worse. So he's been in an e-collar for now almost 2 months. The vet doesn't have any answers for me but gets me another medicine that is sprayed on him this one is called Vetericyn and I've been using it for a week and there is no change. 

Has anyone else gone through anything like this. He's not healing and the scab hasn't fallen off. It looks so horrible and I'm at a lost as to what to do for him. Every time I look at it I just start to cry cause I just don't know what to do. I've been taking him to the vet since July 31st and nearly every week since than. Can anybody tell me what else I can do. 

Sorry this is so long, but thanks for reading.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I'm not sure what else you could do, did the vet tell you what it was? Or give you the test results?


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

roxy culver said:


> I'm not sure what else you could do, did the vet tell you what it was? Or give you the test results?


Yes, It was an ingrown feather.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Can you take him to another vet? It really sounds like you need someone who can do more diagnostics and give you some better answers, rather than continually prescribing different medications which may be hurting more than helping. I think if he were my bird, I'd be asking for a culture/biopsy of the wound area, and blood work, to start.


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

She did a gram stain and told me he has very health bacteria. But, yes I think you're right and I have been thinking about looking for another vet. There are very few and far between for avian vets, but if I have to travel a ways I will. Thank you.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Sometimes a dog/cat vet will also see birds, they may not have the cert but that could only be because its extra money. My normal vet sees my birds and he's very good with them.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Tommy's Mom said:


> She did a gram stain and told me he has very health bacteria. But, yes I think you're right and I have been thinking about looking for another vet. There are very few and far between for avian vets, but if I have to travel a ways I will. Thank you.


It's good that she did a gram stain, but that's not very specific to the area where this problem is happening. It's possible that he could have an infection in his skin, or some other issue, like a severe allergic reaction causing necrosis. I would also suggest blood work to look at organ function, because if there's something wrong with that, then it might be impeding his body from healing. Basically you need somebody who can pinpoint what treatment is needed, rather than playing trial and error at this point. Sometimes that can work, but in this case it seems that you've moved past a point where that approach is acceptable.

I also think it would be helpful if you could find a vet who is comfortable doing surgery on him, if it's needed. Thirteen really is not that old for a 'tiel in good health -- if you look at how long birds are living now (into their 20s is not all that uncommon), I would consider it more middle aged. Certainly within the acceptable limits for light anesthesia for something like wound debridement, unless they were to discover other risk factors.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Here's a link that can help you find a veterinarian: http://www.aav.org/search/ The best way to search is to put in the code for any state that you're willing to travel to. If you put in a city name it will look only within the city limits, and if you put in a zip code it will look only in that zip code. By putting in the whole state you'll see everything that's within a reasonable distance and then some.

The results that turn up are all AAV members. There might be more avian vets in the area that don't belong to AAV so it pays to google too.

Here are some links to info on a couple of NH bird clubs. They might be able to recommend a good vet in your area. 
http://www.petstation.com/birdclub.html#REG You have to scroll down the page.
http://www.birdchannel.com/bird-community/bird-club-directory/directory-listing.aspx#N Same clubs with website address.
http://www.parrotchronicles.com/departments/birdclubs.htm#NEW_HAMPSHIRE Same clubs with email addresses.


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

Enigma731 & tielfan I thank both of you so very much for this information. I will do an extensive search for a good avian vet and get him in for an appointment real soon. Maybe a blood work exam will get the answer to his issue. This is something that needs to be done, cause I'm so torn up inside just seeing him go through all this. Hopefully I will get some positive answers. Thanks again, Tommy's Mom


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

I located an Avian Vet Hospital about 22 miles from me. I will give them a call Monday morning and make an appointment for Tommy. I'm also going to pick up an Avitech Herbal supplement for him tomorrow at Bird Supply of NH they are about 17 miles from me. I'm going to look at the Avitech Echinacea Purpurea Herbal Supplement and the Avitech Echinacea Angusifolia Herbal Supplement. Not sure which one yet but will talk with some of the clerks there to get an idea which one may be better for Tommy. Being herbal either one of them will be safe just want to be sure to get one to help with Tommy's issue. :tiel4:


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## vampiric_conure (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm glad you found a vet  Lets hope that this sore on his keel clears up soon. Got my fingers, toes and tail feathers crossed that it clears up safely 

Keep us updated when you can!


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

Thank you! I will post his progress and I will continue to have positive feelings about this.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I just wanted to mention that while herbal supplements are not prescription meds, they can have unintended side effects just like medications can. I would not automatically assume they are safe just because they are herbal. Now, AviTech is a very good brand and I have heard good things about their supplements, so you are probably safe with them. But, if you do choose to start using an herbal supplement, make sure that you mention this product at your next vet visit since it could have unwanted interactions with prescribed medications.  I'm glad you found somewhere to get a second opinion.


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

enigma731 said:


> I just wanted to mention that while herbal supplements are not prescription meds, they can have unintended side effects just like medications can. I would not automatically assume they are safe just because they are herbal. Now, AviTech is a very good brand and I have heard good things about their supplements, so you are probably safe with them. But, if you do choose to start using an herbal supplement, make sure that you mention this product at your next vet visit since it could have unwanted interactions with prescribed medications.  I'm glad you found somewhere to get a second opinion.


Yes, I do know that I need to be careful with herbal supplements but, right now he's not on any meds. I do thank you for pointing that out as a reminder, and I will be very careful. Tommy is my very first bird and I've had him since he was 10 weeks old and he turned 13 yrs. old on August 4th. I also have 6 other birds, but he's my only cockatiel.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

He's very lucky to have you as his mom!


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## thistle (Sep 21, 2012)

I don't have any advice, I just wanted to say that I hope the avian vet can help and that Tommy feels better soon.


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

Thank you!!


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

Here's a most recent photo of Tommy before he was affected by the ingrown feather.


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

The photo with Tommy wearing the e-collar was taken right after his appointment from having the ingrown feather removed. The photo of him without the e-collar was taken today I took his collar off and made him a new one. He's been looking worse after putting the medicine on it. That's why I stopped putting the meds on him plus his vet didn't have any answers to why this was happening and so I'm looking into another opinion from a different vet.


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## Motley (Jun 5, 2012)

Your bird is absoloutely adorable!  I hope he is feeling better soon, it looks pretty sore


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

That looks much worse than an ingrown feather. I definitely think you need someone who can biopsy the area and do more specific tests to figure out what's going on.

Also, in the second picture it looks like he has discharge above his nares. Is that just from getting medication on his face, or is it possible he has some respiratory symptoms going on?

He is a beautiful boy.


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

enigma731 said:


> That looks much worse than an ingrown feather. I definitely think you need someone who can biopsy the area and do more specific tests to figure out what's going on.
> 
> Also, in the second picture it looks like he has discharge above his nares. Is that just from getting medication on his face, or is it possible he has some respiratory symptoms going on?
> 
> He is a beautiful boy.


I know it looks so bad and it makes me cry when I look at it. As for his nares that's something else I asked the vet about and she told me that I could use some saline drops in his nares cause they are not blocked. It could be from the first med she gave me that he was allergic to. When I pulled off the label the vet had stuck to the bottle I read that it's for animals but it didn't indicate for birds. The ingredients included nearly 80% caster oil. It's called Granulex V and when I searched it on Google I couldn't find anything stating it was okay for birds. I used this on him for 3 days when I noticed it was spreading over almost all his body, that's when I stopped using it and maybe it also got into in nares. I'm so very upset over all of this that even now while I'm typing this I'm in tears. I love him so much and I just need to get some good advice from a vet that I can get good results. Yes, he is a beautiful boy inside and out!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

It's possible that he does have allergies or that the med caused the buildup around his nares. Bloodwork would help rule out infection there too. I'm sorry this has been going on so long, I know it is so hard when they're sick.


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

I will mention blood work when I call for an appointment with the new vet on Monday. Thank you.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I don't like the sound of the Granulex V. It's a discontinued product made by Bertek Pharmaceuticals and distributed by Pfizer. Bertek doesn't seem to have a website, and the product isn't mentioned on the Pfizer website. It was designed for use by veterinarians on dogs, cats, horses and cows. 

I'm assuming that the vet had you using the liquid not the aerosol spray (which would be very bad for a bird's respiratory system). Here's a website showing veterinary information including the ingredients: http://www.drugs.com/vet/granulex-v-liquid.html I don't know how to evaluate this but I don't like the sound of all that castor oil. Other websites seem to indicate that it works mainly by removing dead skin tissue and organic debris, and providing a good environment for the growth of new tissue. It doesn't sound like it's well-matched to the problem it was supposed to solve.

After you've seen a real avian vet, you might want to have a discussion with the previous vet(s) about malpractice.


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

tielfan said:


> I don't like the sound of the Granulex V. It's a discontinued product made by Bertek Pharmaceuticals and distributed by Pfizer. Bertek doesn't seem to have a website, and the product isn't mentioned on the Pfizer website. It was designed for use by veterinarians on dogs, cats, horses and cows.
> 
> I'm assuming that the vet had you using the liquid not the aerosol spray (which would be very bad for a bird's respiratory system). Here's a website showing veterinary information including the ingredients: http://www.drugs.com/vet/granulex-v-liquid.html I don't know how to evaluate this but I don't like the sound of all that castor oil. Other websites seem to indicate that it works mainly by removing dead skin tissue and organic debris, and providing a good environment for the growth of new tissue. It doesn't sound like it's well-matched to the problem it was supposed to solve.
> 
> After you've seen a real avian vet, you might want to have a discussion with the previous vet(s) about malpractice.


You're absolutely right about it not being good for birds. Yes, she gave me the liquid to put on him using a swab and cause of the caster oil that is why it spread all over his body. His feathers acted like a wick and soaked into all his feathers and as most of us know oil is not good to put on birds. When I questioned her about this she told me that they don't' have any good testings on bird medicine like they do for other pets such as for dogs, cats, rabbit etc. So she said, most of the time it's something you just have to try and see if it will help or work for the bird. I find this so hard to believe and this is why I'm having a hard time using the other medicine she gave me which is called Vetericyn cause Tommy's sore is starting to look even worse and looks like it has a discharge to it and sometimes I think its pus. I was going to try and put some peroxide on it but I'm afraid it will have a burning sensation on him. Maybe I should just wait till I talk with the vet I'm going to be calling on Monday. It's just so hard waiting and not knowing if it's only hurting him more by waiting. 

I hate to call her in on a malpractice but at the same time I wouldn't want her to hurt any other birds. I think maybe she's better as a dog and cat vet.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Does the new vet have an emergency number where you can at least talk to them before Monday? It's best to get a vet opinion before you try any home remedies on your bird.

You don't have to actually threaten the old vet with malpractice. But once you're armed with info from the new vet you can discuss the appropriateness of the treatment and maybe negotiate a refund.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

If you want to put something on the sore, try making a paste with cayenne pepper and water. It's natural pain killer, has mild antibiotic properties, and is completely non-toxic if he ingests any of it.


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

I took Tommy for an appointment with the new vet. She asked me everything he has been through and I told her about all the meds and the visits and what the other vet did for the his ingrown feather. She examined him and told me that it's infected and is spreading around to the sides of his body and needs surgery to remove the scab and make sure that the infection hasn't traveled into his body. She also told me what someone here had said that the only way to remove an ingrown feather is with surgery! The other avian vet removed it with her fingernail by softning it with peroxide. The new avian vet is very confident that it hasn't gone into his body since while feeling around him it feels very loose and not attached to anything deeper into his body. The surgery is scheduled for Tuesday morning October 16th. I'm just a bundle of nerves and so very angry with the first vet I brought him to.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

If an ingrown feather is rather small, it can sometimes be removed without surgery and may or may not recur. However, since Tommy's ingrown feather seemed to affect a pretty large part of his body, it seems clear that this was not a good treatment in his case. Im glad you've found a better vet, and I hope he's on the road to recovery now!


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

enigma731 said:


> If an ingrown feather is rather small, it can sometimes be removed without surgery and may or may not recur. However, since Tommy's ingrown feather seemed to affect a pretty large part of his body, it seems clear that this was not a good treatment in his case. Im glad you've found a better vet, and I hope he's on the road to recovery now!


Thank you and yes, I'll be so glad when the surgery is done and over with and he's home and in the healing process. I will not go back to the other vet. This one is 20 miles away rather than only 5 miles but I'm getting better service with this new vet.


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

Right now I'm at work and I need to get off this site since my break is over. Talk to you all later.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm glad you found a better vet. Did she give Tommy any meds to keep him in good condition until it's time for surgery?


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

tielfan said:


> I'm glad you found a better vet. Did she give Tommy any meds to keep him in good condition until it's time for surgery?



No she didn't give him any meds since he had been on antibiotics for nearly 2 months. She did tell me not to put anything on it but to continue with the Herbal Bird supplement that I had picked up at, New Hampshire Bird Supply. It's called "Echinacea Purpurea Root" which is a Immune System Booster. The vet feels he's been on enough stuff and not to over do it. 

After his surgery which is to remove the scab and check to see if the infection has gone into his body. Than she will probably be sending him home with medication. Right now it appears that the scab area is not attached and will be easy to surgically remove although it is infected and spreading. She may be able to pull his skin with a few stitches. I will be bringing him in for the surgery this Tuesday for 7:15 am. I'm really nervous about this surgery but when I asked her about it she gave me a very confident answer saying she has done surgery on cockatiels of this age before and he will be fine. She also did say that there is always a risk for any bird, animal or human that goes under anesthesia. So I just have to believe her and have trust because Tommy can't go on like this with the infection he now has, since it's spreading to his side. He's been wearing an e-collar since the last week in July!


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## Bailey's Mum (Sep 18, 2012)

Fingers crossed for Tommy on Tuesday.
Keep us up to date with how it went


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

Bailey's Mum said:


> Fingers crossed for Tommy on Tuesday.
> Keep us up to date with how it went


Yes, I will let everyone know how it all went. They will be calling me after it's over and he's awake. That's when they will also let me know when I can pick him up and bring him home. Thank you.


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

Tommy's surgery went well and he's on his way to hopefully a complete healing. His surgery was Tuesday morning, the vet removed the scab and pulled his skin in together. Part of the scab was attached to the top of one of his legs and caused him not to have the mobility he needed to get around easily, so he need stitches in a couple of places. He's on an antibiotic called Clavamox 3x a day, Metronidazole 1x a day and I have to use a surgical scrub 2x a day and than apply Silverdine cream after cleaning him with the scrub. The vet also did a laser treatment on him right after the surgery and then she did another laser treatment when I brought him in for a checkup on Thursday. She told me to keep him in a small aquarium for two weeks, but I don't one so she said the small carrier I have is fine. I feel bad about leaving him in the small carrier all the time but she said it's better for him to put his energy into healing rather than into holding onto a perch or climbing around. 

He looks so much better and he seems to be more relaxed and not trying to get at his keel where it was so badly infected. The vet told me she has never seen such a large and badly infected area on such a small bird before this. I will not call the other vet and try to charge her with malpractice but I will call her and let her know what happened and what Tommy had to go through. 

Tommy's next appointment is for this coming Monday and he will receive his last laser treatment and possibly get the stitches removed. The sad part is that I have to keep him in the carrier until November 1st. and he keeps saying nite-nite which means he wants to go back to his own cage.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm glad he seems to be doing better! Tough love sucks sometimes, but I'm sure he'll forgive you when he's all better and able to climb and play like normal.


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## Clair (Jul 31, 2012)

Glad he's doing well. Could you maybe put the carrier inside his cage at bedtime?


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

enigma731 said:


> I'm glad he seems to be doing better! Tough love sucks sometimes, but I'm sure he'll forgive you when he's all better and able to climb and play like normal.


You are so right and I'll be glad when that day comes! Not only is it hard on him but it's very hard for me to watch him go through it. I have to wake him up at 4:30 in the morning to give him the Clavamox that he gets 3x a day. It's given to him at 4:30 - 12:30 and 8:30 daily. So each day all my guys get a little treat during my lunch time when I come from work at 12:00. I'm so glad I don't work far from home!!


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## Tommy's Mom (Oct 5, 2012)

Clair said:


> Glad he's doing well. Could you maybe put the carrier inside his cage at bedtime?


Clair, that would be nice but his carrier will not fit into his cage, his carrier is 16 x 11 x 8 high. But he does have a couple of his small stuffed yellow tweetie birds with him. One is in each opposite far corner from his food and water dishes. His favorite color is yellow and he always has loved those little stuffed birds. I'll be glad when he's feeling well enough to sing to them like he use to do.


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