# Paper Towel being used as bedding question



## angelmommy24

*Paper Towel being used as bedding in the nest box question*

Ok not me but a friend is using paper towel now I know this is a no no but can someone explain why? So I can help her? She is using a few layers 2 maybe 3 in the nest box has bedding for the eggs and parents


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## cinnamonswirl

To me, at least from my knowledge, paper towels are not harmful unless immense amounts are digested to get caught in the crop or if it's colored. Or are you saying she actually shreds it up? If it's just a cage liner (which I'd recommend more than bedding) it's fine. Also, if there's a grate that's raised above the bottom of the cage tray and the cockatiel is not able to reach through and chew on it, she's OK to use it.


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## srtiels

Do you mean in the nestbox, with no other bedding?

My very first 2 babies with splayed leg were a result of having newspaper on the floor and paper towels in the nest box.


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## angelmommy24

Yes she has paper towel as bedding in the nest box I told her I thought I caused splayed legs but wanted to check here also I told her to get aspen and since they just started laying mate she could change it out but I don't want to be the reason her birds abandon the eggs should she just keep the paper towel ?


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## srtiels

Some of the reasons why not to use it is that you need a couple inches of bedding under the eggs. This thickness work in favor of successful hatches if the eggs are fertile in several ways. There is enough cushion under the eggs that there is less risk of jarring and breaking them. Also a sharp jarring can kill an embryo in the early stages (5 days and under). Paper towels don't retain the heat like bedding can, which is helpful if the sitting parent gets off the nest for brief intervals. Paper towels may also draw moisture from the parents bodies (when they wet their chests) that is needed for incubated eggs. And I'm brain dead right now but thewre would be more reason why not to, and to suggest something better in the box (aspen or pine)


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## srtiels

If the birds are used to her she can quickly remove the eggs, put approx 3" depth off bedding in. have her press down the bedding forming a bowl shape....meaning the edges are higher than the center of the nest. 

Ok....the reason why the bowl shape to the bedding. When babies are little they back up to poop against the walls of the nestbox, then go forward back to the huddle. If the bedding is uneven or lower and little baby may not be able to get back to the huddle to get warm. These are the babies that are usually found off to the side very chilled or dead.


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## angelmommy24

Ok yes I advised her to put aspen or pine I can even give her some of mine the daddy is mean but momma is a sweetly she was afraid to check the box telling me they hiss I told her to tap on the box and lift it up told her they have to get used to you that bye tapping on the box you won't startel them


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## tielfan

If it's possible for you to go to her house and help her do it, that might be the best way to make sure everything's done quickly and well. Two or three layers of paper towel isn't nearly enough bedding.


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## angelmommy24

I'm going to call her on my way home from work today and see if I can swing bye and helP her she sent me information as to why paper towel is good she found on a place called cottage something which I had found that information in the past I will call her for sure later


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## bjknight93

Cockatielcottage...some of their info is good and some is not. I had read that article before and it was very informative but they only wanted paper towels in the box, i can't remember if there was any reasoning behind it though.


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## angelmommy24

Yes she told me something about she read not to use aspen or pine because it will hold bacteria it's only 4:11 here and I have to leave for work in an hour an a half but I get off at 3 and I'm hoping she'll be home so I can swing bye later


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## angelmommy24

Oh and she's using an inch thick of shredded paper towel


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## bjknight93

Bring the bedding with you so you can run by if she'll let you  hopefully the eggs won't get broken between now and then. Goodnight  i'll be running on 4 hours tomorrow as opposed to your 1..i was up late with an essay.

..and i'm only a little crazy  haha


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## angelmommy24

Ok let me post this on the right message I have 2 yr old triplet boys a 11 yr old daughter who looks 15 and 8 ur old daughter I'll join you on the crazy train


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## tielfan

Here's the exact quote from Cockatiel Cottage at http://www.cockatielcottage.net/breeding.html 



> Line the nestbox with a several layers of soft but slightly textured white paper towels to absorb moisture and to prevent chicks from developing splayed legs or other leg deformities from a wet, slippery bottom. Make a small dent or well in the center. This is called a nest bowl and it will help to prevent the eggs from rolling around. Some birds will toss out the paper towels. Cloth baby diapers or unfrayed woven cotton towels can be used as a nesting substrate as well. They can also be tossed into the washing machine to sanitize as needed. Wrong types of nesting materials include: any type of liter, corncob bedding, or walnut shells. These are all organic materials that will promote the growth of bacteria and mold spores when wet. The use of pine, cedar, aspen or other wood chips/shavings should also be avoided. Cedar is toxic and the fumes and dust from other wood type bedding materials contain fumes and dust that will irritate a bird's eyes and respiratory system. Another negative aspect of all of these unsuitable nesting materials is that they are not digestible and they cause digestive impactions if swallowed.


This is just plain wrong. If she wants something official-looking, here's better information from the Winged Wisdom eZine at http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww59eiii.htm


> Another concern for the breeder is what type of nesting substrate should be put in the nest box for breeding birds. There are different types of substrates available some of these are bird pellets, dog food, and some have suggested using oatmeal. While these are digestible they have a very limited ability to absorb liquid. And once contaminated with old food and droppings, the wet fecal matter is ripe for growing bacteria, mold, and fungus. Other bedding such as cedar shavings may cause respiratory distress in young chicks. The use of corn cob bedding, soft facial tissue, and grass fibers is not recommended as these substrates do not provide a good foot hold for the chicks and this increases the possibility of splayed legs.
> 
> Pine shavings are thought to be a good substrate, however any type of wood shavings should have a low dust content. Too much dust may cause respiratory or eye problems because the dust from the shavings acts as an irritant. Wood chunks can be used in the nest box, but care must be taken when using these because if the parents or the chicks chew on the wood chunks it is possible for the crop to become impacted. This may result in the loss of the birds or chicks. The following article Cage liners and Bedding Substrates explains about cage liners and the same basic priniciples apply to nesting substrates. This article will give more detailed information about the use of different or various nesting materials.


The quote above doesn't mention paper towels however it does say that facial tissue (which has fairly similar qualities) is unsuitable. It's possible to have problems with any kind of substrate, but decades of experience with many breeders has established that clean wood shavings from an appropriate tree is the best, safest bedding. Bacteria and mold won't normally be a problem unless the human introduces water from the outside, for example spraying the bedding in a misguided attempt to add humidity. If an outdoor nestbox got soaked with rainwater then you'd need to change the bedding.


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## DyArianna

I'm not positive, but I really think that first reference is ancient. For some reason, I seem to recall coming across it when I was initially doing research. I'm going to assume that it was just never updated as things progressed with research and experience.


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## tielfan

The Cockatiel Cottage page cites this as their source: Source of Hatching Information: Avian Medicine, Principles and Practices by Dr. Branson Ritchie, Dr. Greg Harrison and Linda Harrison, 1997

Does anybody know what the latest edition of the Ritchie Harrison textbook says? Or some other super official-looking source? If the medical text has been updated we can probably get Cockatiel Cottage to change their info. Past experience indicates that they probably wouldn't accept something less authoritative than their original source.


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## srtiels

Yes....many of these websites have old info, and never update. If you visit a website that says it's OK to hand-feed 15-20cc (the cockatiels crop capacity)...*RUN* This is over 10-15 years old info and breeders learned the hard way that feeding in excess can be very harmful to the babies.


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## srtiels

Tiel Fan....I have that book, I'll have to look. But it sounds more like what a vet office might use with a patient, short term.


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## bjknight93

angelmommy24 said:


> Ok let me post this on the right message I have 2 yr old triplet boys a 11 yr old daughter who looks 15 and 8 ur old daughter I'll join you on the crazy train


Haha, it sounds like you've got your hands full and overflowing 

I saw that post in the other thread..it made me wonder.


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## bjknight93

I'd like to hear what the book now says..websites should update atleast every year so they don't let out false information like that. Cockatiel cottage always seemed reputable, but they have faults.


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## tielfan

> Cockatiel cottage always seemed reputable, but they have faults.


I agree that CC is basically a good site but not perfect, and you need to double check anything that you're not sure about. I didn't realize that they had posted erroneous info on nesting substrate, so I'm going to stop recommending them as a resource for breeding information or at least include a warning about errors if I do mention them.

A couple of years ago they posted a warning about phytic acid in vegetables, which prompted me to do the research posted at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=9048 I tried to get them to modify the website but they wouldn't go for it, choosing the rather misleading info from Harrison Ritchie over all other sources. That's why I think we need a highly authoritative source on nesting substrate if we want to ask them to update their page.


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## angelmommy24

Ok now I need your advice my friend took the egg out to mark it since it was just hatched and now the wont go back in how long can the egg go with being incubated was just laid late Sunday so 2nd egg should be laid late tonight she was gonna change bedding but now she's afraid as they've abandoned clutches in the past?


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## bjknight93

You mean laid, not hatched lol 

And I believe they're good for 10 days without incubation. If the parent birds can't get over the bedding change, she may just have to let this clutch go. The babies atleast need new bedding if not when they're still eggs...so even if they hatched this on papertowel then you risk changing the bedding after the eggs hatch and then what if the parents abandoned them then? Well...handfeeding, but that's stressful from day 1.


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## angelmommy24

She's gonna go get aspen I told her I thought alreast 5-7 days she's going out later because she wants it changed before 2nd egg laid  they have just gotten over this nasty virus bug that my triplets currently have so I'm gonna stay home but have told her to call me I'm gonna call her later I got egg #2 myself today


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## tielfan

In my experience, it takes less than 20 minutes for parent birds to get over a change in nesting conditions. But not all birds are as gung-ho as mine so there is a risk here. But improper bedding carries quite a few risks too, and if these were my birds I'd put in the good bedding and take my chances.


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## angelmommy24

Oh bkknight93 I did tell you I have a preteen daughter mikayla who is 11 in JR high who looks like she is 15 literally lol (I'm 30) a 8 yr daughter and the kicker 2 year old April Fools Joke on me Triplet BOYS Ashton Bryce and Chase who will be 3 April 1st I may be alittle silly at times lol crazy others lol  plus work was crazy insane today!!!


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## srtiels

Since you have a sitting bird, you might consider fostering her egg under your hen if her hen abandons them.


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## angelmommy24

Oh I never thought about that ok ill mention that


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## angelmommy24

She changed out to aspen and mom and dad are back nesting


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## tielfan

Yay! Another triumph for good breeding practices.


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## DyArianna

Good for her and glad the birds are taking up shop once more..


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## morla

Paper towels are ok. I use that for Daisy's bedding.


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## srtiels

morla said:


> Paper towels are ok. I use that for Daisy's bedding.


----------------------------------
Sweetie, did you read the whole thread?


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## bjknight93

We are talking about bedding for nests! Not cage bedding!


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