# Wondering what will happen now...



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

So, I have three tame tiels (Juju, Moon, Freya) and one untame one (Storm) at the moment. The untame one has sort of messed up the flock dynamics, I'm afraid. I would just like to get others' thoughts on this, if possible.

Now, I know it's quite early yet and I shouldn't jump to any conclusions. The three boys have only been a flock for a few days now. But Storm has been with me over a month, and shows no signs of becoming any tamer really. He has stepped up and sat on my arm fairly calmly, but ONLY when he's outside the cage. Inside the cage, he will only step up for millet and moves away as soon as it's gone. Now that Juju and Moon have met Storm, they do not want to hang out with me anymore. It's not that they don't want me around! They flock call every single time I leave the room. Juju still demands his scritches, and Moon will come over to me if I'm by the cage and preen my hair and eyebrows. But if I try to get them to sit on my shoulders or take them away from the cage? Forget it, they fly back to the cage. Even if I'm a foot away from it. And since Storm will absolutely not step up to come out of the cage, even on a perch, there's nothing I can do.

Has anyone had a similar experience? I'm hoping I haven't lost my little buddies' companionship forever. It was much more fun when they would sit on my shoulders and arms, and Moon would talk to me and babble like a crazy alien bird while Juju terrorized my keyboard and desk. I've more or less decided to take a hands-off approach with Storm -- I offer him millet from my hand every day, and spend a lot of time around the cage. I'm just going to have to hope that eventually, Juju and Moon start coming to me and Storm follows. He did used to be tame and like sitting on people, according to his previous owner, but I think he was traumatized the day I got him by being grabbed and transported. Maybe when he grows his flights back, he'll become bold enough to come near me on his own terms? I feel like it's all I can hope for.

If anyone can think of any suggestions for me right now, or has any insight, please let me know. Thanks.


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

He sounds more cagebound than anything else. I would separate him from the other two to be honest and work on bonding with him alone. I realize its a hassle but it is so much harder to train them when you don't have their full attention and they'd rather be with each other then you.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Really? I would feel so bad for him doing that now that he's already bonding with Moon.  He was alone for a month, and came no closer to trusting me...


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

How food-driven are Juju and Moon? Some sunflower seeds or a nice piece of millet spray might lure them away from Storm, especially if coming to you is the only way to get these treats. Storm is willing to eat from your hand, so he might be lured out by seeing the others eating. You just have to make hanging out with you look more desirable than the alternatives.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

They will usually rush over for millet. The other day I was eating a bagel, and Juju got so obsessed that I brought him over to me and he feasted away. But as soon as he'd had his fill, he flew back.

Maybe I should add that they have recently moved to a smaller room, and now have a larger cage that sits much lower to the ground. Before, they were in the bedroom in a fairly small cage on top of the dresser. I'd take them all the way across the room to hang out with me at my desk. Now they're in the spare bedroom and have a flight cage, so they can very easily fly back even with clipped wings because the distance is much smaller. This can't be working in my favor. I also don't want to force them to come to me, though. They obviously like me...is it unreasonable to think that maybe, given more time to settle in and them growing back their flights and their confidence, they will start coming to me? Especially if I have treats?


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> They obviously like me...is it unreasonable to think that maybe, given more time to settle in and them growing back their flights and their confidence, they will start coming to me? Especially if I have treats?


It's very possible that this will happen. 

It might be helpful to rework the cage situation somewhat. I'm assuming that the flight cage is too big for the bedroom, but if you kept the old cage in its old location they would have a familiar hangout in a familiar room and they might not be so eager to get back to the flight cage. If Storm is willing to leave the flight cage and stay in the small cage during these sessions, then Juju and Moon will have all the more incentive to stay in the room with you. They'll eventually figure out that Storm isn't going to vanish just because they're having some fun on the other side of the room.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

i will think about this, thanks. right now, i'm quite thrilled because i managed to get all three to hang out! i got Moon to step up for millet, then i stuck a perch in the cage so Storm could have a path to the treat. he actually got on it, and i lifted him out of the cage. he climbed on top, then i positioned my arm so that he could climb over and join Moon. he did it!! climbed right up my arm to my shoulder.  then Juju flew to my head, feeling left out. Storm seems perfectly calm, he is even singing to Moon. And Moon is preening my hair. maybe if Storm learns this way that i'm not scary and the other birds accept me, he'll come to me on his own eventually.


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It's possible that Storm will never care for you as much as he does for the other birds. But it will do him a lot of good to see them interacting with you and having fun. They're all still adjusting to a new situation, but every time they voluntarily hang out with you - even if it's just for a few seconds - you're teaching them that it's a rewarding experience and they should do it more often.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm fine with him not liking me as much as he likes other birds...it's only natural, after all. I just hope Juju and Moon start hanging out with me again, regardless of how Storm feels about me. It would be a nice bonus if Storm would at least tolerate me. 

Things were going so well tonight! He seemed almost completely comfortable on my shoulder, and he even sat on my boyfriend's hand eating millet later. When I went to put them back, he also stepped up onto my hand. But then I made the mistake of putting them all on the cage top while I cleaned some perches, and I had to chase Storm a little to get him back in...he didn't want to step up off the cage top for me. I finally cornered him with both my arms and he had to step up, then put him back in. I feel bad, because I swore I would never chase him again, but the only alternative would have been toweling and I think that would have been worse. At least maybe this way, he'll learn that if he steps up nothing terrible happens.


----------



## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

Willow does that too. But it's bc she's enjoying what she's doing. Lol. I have to cup her often and it really irks her.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Moon and Juju make me chase them sometimes too, but it's different with them. I know they aren't scared, they just don't want to be bothered at the moment. With Storm, I am pretty sure he's still afraid, or at least nervous. He never steps up without some deliberation, so me forcing him always feels crappy. I'm afraid there was no other way in this case, though.


----------



## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

I feel like you are with storm where I was with Grey when I first got him. The great thing about it was that he was an only bird and I was his only option for a companion. It took five months for us to really bond and be buddies and I took my time getting another tiel bc I wanted to make sure I had his undivided attention for as long as it took. You might not like it, but you might have to separate him to make progress. 

Grey only comes to me when I have his favorite bird, but he willingly steps and gives me no issues other than being a butthead. But I know if I tried to tame him in the presence of other birds, i would have gotten no where fast.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Sigh.
Now that I have Freya, there'd be nowhere to put Storm I'm afraid, even if I wanted to separate him. Other than the cat-infested living room, anyway, and he would never be able to come out so it would kind of defeat the purpose...not to mention I don't know if I could do that to Moon. They would probably both scream bloody murder, and would be able to hear each other quite well since I live in an apartment.


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

With birds that step up reluctantly, you can often get better results by using both hands. Extend the thumbs and index fingers of both hands and use them to sort of surround the bird like a fence, then use the most convenient finger to request the step up. I get less resistance from my reluctant birds if they don't see a clear direction for running away.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Outside the cage, this does work with him. Inside, not so much! Even if I get him on my hand, he jumps right off immediately. I've found that I get the best results with him when I stay very still and give him the choice of coming to me. It's usually only if I have millet or if I'm "saving" him if he's fallen in an awkward spot though. Today I had Moon eating millet on my hand right outside the cage door and Storm obviously wanted to come out too...I offered my arm, then a perch, and you could tell he wanted to come out but not badly enough. He's quite stubborn. But he now allows my hand to be an inch away from him as long as it isn't pursuing him, so that's something at least.

Maybe I could use another bird (his favorite, Moon) as a training tool as well, rather than just treats. If he sees Moon with me and wants to be with him, then maybe he'll eventually start stepping up to be with Moon.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

It worked! I took Moon out (and kept him there with millet), and Storm was sitting in the doorway so I held my hand with the millet just outside it. After what felt like forever, he actually stepped up with both feet and I carried him and Moon over to my chair. Juju flew over to my head after a while so the gang was all together. Storm actually sat on my shoulder and played with my hair a bit! And then I put them all back, no chasing at all this time so hopefully it was just a good experience for Storm. Hopefully I can tame him this way, even if it's slow, rather than separating him. Moon seemed happy to be hanging out with me again...I know he wants to, he just doesn't like being separated from his birdie flock.


----------



## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

yeah. grey HATES kevin, but if kevin has ama- grey willingly follows. 

i get lots of resistance when i try to get everyone out for out of cage time. i have to get them out in this order or else i get bit and have some upset birds:

ama. he is willing and loves me bc i talk to him and he gets to play with my hair.
grey. has to go wherever ama goes.
willow. doesn't want to be moved until she sees its just for out of cage time (i dont know what else she's worried about but she is)
farrah. after everyone else goes, she decides she needs to be with them. 

so i think you'll benefit from using moon as bait. i do it all the time with ama. lol.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Do you keep them clipped? Is out of cage time in the same room as the cage? I'm just curious...if they are so reluctant to come out, I would think they'd try to go back to the cage. It seems like they do enjoy being out with you once they're persuaded though (kind of like my boys). Freya seems to love me and really enjoys her out of cage time, so I think she'll be the first to come out once they're all together.


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> you could tell he wanted to come out but not badly enough. He's quite stubborn.


It's probably fear rather than stubbornness. He hasn't learned to trust you enough yet, but you're moving in the right direction.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

You're right, we still have a long way to go with the trust building. I need to make it up to him that he was grabbed and traumatized. He does seem to know I won't hurt him, though. He'll sit and preen right next to my hand as long as I'm not forcing him into anything. He's just not ready to be friends yet, though he's starting to accept me as generally safe. He watches intently when Moon interacts with me, so I think he's slowly absorbing it all. And it's cute...he'll watch me give Juju scritches, then go ask Moon for some.


----------

