# Avian Gastric Yeast/Megabacteria



## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Thelion151589 said:


> changes in droppings color, and too sharp of a keel bone can also be a cause of mega bacteria correct?


I think you mean a symptom, not a cause. And yes, but these symptoms fit many GI problems, not just AGY/megabacteria.


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## Thelion151589 (Aug 8, 2011)

enigma731 said:


> I think you mean a symptom, not a cause. And yes, but these symptoms fit many GI problems, not just AGY/megabacteria.


yea i meant a symptom sorry, im currently treating my birds for mega :/ i took my tiels and budgies to a vet and they diagnosed them with mega/agy and told me to treat them using sodium benzoate in their drinking water


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Thelion151589 said:


> yea i meant a symptom sorry, im currently treating my birds for mega :/ i took my tiels and budgies to a vet and they diagnosed them with mega/agy and told me to treat them using sodium benzoate in their drinking water


Was this an avian vet that you saw? And how did they diagnose AGY? This sounds like an odd way to treat it to me. As far as I know, AGY requires a pretty potent antifungal, usually fluconazole or amphotericin B.


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## Thelion151589 (Aug 8, 2011)

enigma731 said:


> Was this an avian vet that you saw? And how did they diagnose AGY? This sounds like an odd way to treat it to me. As far as I know, AGY requires a pretty potent antifungal, usually fluconazole or amphotericin B.



it was a noraml vet, he did a blood test and also with the droppings, he prescribed to me the meds their, he said that sodium benzoate has been used by various vets to treat mega and its fairly new out their to be used as something to treat birds, i checked online and found an article that says yes it has been used to treat mega, in the case that the pet owner cant afford to treat his/her pets with megabac-s its an alternative option, i also read on another cite that apple cider vinegar with mother can be used and that it adds many more minerals to the birds system


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Thelion151589 said:


> it was a noraml vet, he did a blood test and also with the droppings, he prescribed to me the meds their, he said that sodium benzoate has been used by various vets to treat mega and its fairly new out their to be used as something to treat birds, i checked online and found an article that says yes it has been used to treat mega, in the case that the pet owner cant afford to treat his/her pets with megabac-s its an alternative option, i also read on another cite that apple cider vinegar with mother can be used and that it adds many more minerals to the birds system


Did your birds have symptoms? I have read that there is a fairly high rate of false positives for AGY, especially in budgies. They can test positive and never actually be ill.


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## Thelion151589 (Aug 8, 2011)

enigma731 said:


> Did your birds have symptoms? I have read that there is a fairly high rate of false positives for AGY, especially in budgies. They can test positive and never actually be ill.


yes they did, i lost two birds prior to getting them all diagnosed they where starting to all go light weight, yea ive read also that all birds are carriers just that some develop AGY faster than others due to their immune system, stress, or any other illness that they might have that leads to this


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Thelion151589 said:


> yes they did, i lost two birds prior to getting them all diagnosed they where starting to all go light weight, yea ive read also that all birds are carriers just that some develop AGY faster than others due to their immune system, stress, or any other illness that they might have that leads to this


Okay. Sounds like you've done a good job with your research.  Just wanted to make sure you weren't being misinformed.


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## Thelion151589 (Aug 8, 2011)

enigma731 said:


> Okay. Sounds like you've done a good job with your research.  Just wanted to make sure you weren't being misinformed.


yay! :thumbu:thanks for your concerns


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I made this into its own thread since I'm the one who made this into a discussion, and I also think it could be a good reference in the future.


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## Thelion151589 (Aug 8, 2011)

enigma731 said:


> I made this into its own thread since I'm the one who made this into a discussion, and I also think it could be a good reference in the future.


Alright cool seems fair


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I'll keep it going...what are the common symptoms Michelle?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Unfortunately it's one of those things that has pretty vague symptoms. 

But, generally GI-type upset symptoms. Unexplained weight loss is a big one (which is how I originally ended up reading about it). Birds may eat ravenously but lose weight anyway; some also seem to have difficulty swallowing, and may revert to "baby" feeding behaviors like begging. There may also be vomiting (typically undigested seed with mucous), and changes in the droppings (undigested seeds are a big red flat here too). And then there are less specific symptoms you'd see with any illness, like weakness and lethargy. 

I believe in some birds there may also be behavioral signs, like feather plucking in the vicinity of the crop.

Clinical findings are pretty similar to PDD, and there's usually a differential diagnosis between the two, from what I've read. Keep in mind, I have no personal experience with this other than that my vet suspected it in one of my birds who turned out to have a bacterial enteritis instead.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

1. It should also be noted that while AGY is commonly referred to as "megabacteria," and was originally named this because it appeared to be a form of large bacteria, this is not a bacterial infection. It is fungal, and will need to be treated with antifungal medications. Treatment with antibiotics in a case of true AGY will only make things worse.

2. This is not the same as infection with candidiasis/regular yeast, and can't be treated with more common/benign options like Nystatin or apple cider vinegar.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I've always wondered what Ava passed away from...i was uneducated about diseases when we got her and she left us less than a month after we took her home. She would eat and eat and eat so we would joke about her being a "fat" bird but it turned out she was really super skinny. I just thought she was a light bird.  what i would've done for her if i had only known..

AGY sounds like it could be a possibility for her death...it does and doesn't sound like her. But then there are sooo many other diseases with the same symptoms.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

It could be, but any infection that puts a strain on the bird's metabolism could produce that symptom.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Hmm, I wander...if they don't do a any tests on the crop during a necropsy they wouldn't pick this up would they? So in all reality, my birds could've had this? Just thinking because both Cinnamon and Shredder had some of the symptoms (weight-loss and vomiting) before passing. Cupcake also had the weight-loss but we never had any vomiting with her. Thinking that may have been the reason that they really didn't find anything in the necropsies?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

It would show up in the ventriculus and intestines in a necropsy. And if a culture or tissues were done it would show up.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Ah OK that makes sense.


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## northernfog (Dec 14, 2010)

bjknight93 said:


> I've always wondered what Ava passed away from...i was uneducated about diseases when we got her and she left us less than a month after we took her home. She would eat and eat and eat so we would joke about her being a "fat" bird but it turned out she was really super skinny. I just thought she was a light bird.  what i would've done for her if i had only known..
> 
> AGY sounds like it could be a possibility for her death...it does and doesn't sound like her. But then there are sooo many other diseases with the same symptoms.


So is it a bad sign if your bird eats a lot? My bird tends to eat a lot, but I thought that that was a healthy thing to do! :\


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

northernfog said:


> So is it a bad sign if your bird eats a lot? My bird tends to eat a lot, but I thought that that was a healthy thing to do! :\


No, it's only a problem if they eat excessively (and we're talking EXCESSIVELY, not normal piggy 'tiel behavior) AND lose weight. So if your bird eats a lot but is maintaining a healthy weight, then I'd say her intake is just what she needs.


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## northernfog (Dec 14, 2010)

enigma731 said:


> No, it's only a problem if they eat excessively (and we're talking EXCESSIVELY, not normal piggy 'tiel behavior) AND lose weight. So if your bird eats a lot but is maintaining a healthy weight, then I'd say her intake is just what she needs.


Ah ok. That's good. I remember back 6 years ago when I bought my tiel she was squeezed in with a bunch of others and she was on top of the food dish keeping it all to herself and eating.  So cute.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Ava was eating constantly...i mean that's what she spent most of her time doing. But she just got so weak in the end we couldn't save her and she was incredibly skinny. I just didn't know it at the time.


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## northernfog (Dec 14, 2010)

bjknight93 said:


> Ava was eating constantly...i mean that's what she spent most of her time doing. But she just got so weak in the end we couldn't save her and she was incredibly skinny. I just didn't know it at the time.


I have never been able to weigh my bird as she is not very tame and really scared of large objects so we can't put like a scale inside her cage so she can perch in it... As far as looks, she has pretty much always looked the same. Is there a way to know if she is too skinny by looking at her?


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=17680

I'm going to redirect you there because this is a thread about AGY and the concern is diseases that effects metabolism...not a cockatiel's weight in general.


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