# Colony or cage breeding?



## s25ale

I have two pairs of cockatiels, both are in their own flights. I'm considering putting a 6x6ft flight on the outside of the shed giving them a 6x3ft internal and 6x6ft external flight. Do cockatiels usually breed ok in this kind of situation or are single flights prefered?


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## NuttyNu

I collony breed I prefer it as i feel it is more the cockatiels Choice to breed or Choice not to breed but stay happy and independant. I have a generally good successrate of fertile eggs although have gone through a phase where they are dying as chicks under 3 weeks old. I do feel this is nothing to do with bein in a colony though.

I know there are some on here who will say cage breeding is best as it has less problems although, we used to cage breed out budgies many years ago and I don't think there are that many extra problem ocurences with colony breeding. I personally feel it si more natural like the wild - they can choose their pairs and act more naturally.


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## cookie232

I intended to have seperate flights but they beat me to it  This is my first year of breeding and i have 18 cockatiels in my aviary, 12 of which paired up and claimed boxes. Between them i have 30 chicks at the moment. One box has 10 chicks in it, and i have found a lot of box swapping going on The box with 10 chicks has 3 females that are feeding and sitting, one of them is a mum in another box. I dont think the 10 chicks would have survived if i had seperated the pairs  As you can imagine the size difference bewteen the eldest chick and youngest in the box is huge, and i was contemplating pulling the smallest out and putting him in with another clutch of simular size, but he is doing well and making excellent progress so i guess the 3 mummies are doing a grand job and i have left him with his siblings


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## srtiels

What you might want to do is use the search box at the top and do a search using the terms: colony or cage breeding. We have discussed this several times and there should be some helpful info in the posts.

If you have never bred before you might want to cage breed each pair for their first 1-2 clutches. This will give you some valuable experience such as how well the pair do incubating and taking care of babies. This also give the pairs some experience. 

If both pairs do good cage breeding then you can introduce them to a colony breeding situation later on.


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## Renae

I agree with Susanne (srtiels), I would cage breed them first instead of straight out colony breeding them, especially if it is their first time.


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## 4birdsNC

I keep mine togeather, but when they choose mates I move them off into their own little honeymoon suite.


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## s25ale

I've had my original pair over 3 years and bred them last year and they currently have 4 chicks. Its only because i've purchased an additional pair i'm wondering if to breed them in one flight or two.


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## roxy culver

You can put the original pair in a flight and add the other pair after breeding them separately in a cage this year. This way your sure they're bonded, etc.


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## s25ale

Thanks Roxy  I would prefer my original pair to breed together so i'll do that


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## roxy culver

Its the best way to ensure that the 2nd pair bonds together and doesn't try to break up the original pair!


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## Debbie05

I keep all 6 of mine in a big flight cage when not breeding and watch to see who pairs up together. I then seperated into there own breeding cages when I was breeding them.


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## KTyne

I honestly see NO good things about colony breeding. :| (we were discussing this on Talk Budgies as well).
In colonies birds can kill each other and chicks over nests and mates.
There can be inbreeding.
You can't know 100% who the parents are.
I don't understand why you'd do it? I understand keeping all your birds in a big flight cage when not breeding with NO nest boxes. But when they're mating I just see bad things happening in a colony.


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## srtiels

*I honestly see NO good things about colony breeding.*
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Are you a breeder...or have you breed tiels in the past? If so it would help to make comments on personal experiences, not from what you have heard or read 

I have bred both ways and have found that regardless of the preferred way to breed (colony or cage) it can be a pleasant experience or plagued with problems. Most problems are a result of the humans inexperience and observations or the enviroment rather than the birds themselves.

And if the pairs gave been bonded and cage bred prior to being put in a colony situation they should remain together.


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## KTyne

No I haven't bred Cockatiels, nor do I plan to, but it just seems absolutely silly to me.
Yes, it might go absolutely fine and there be no problems but you still have the possibility of inbreeding, and not knowing the parents.
Just because a pair of birds are bonded doesn't mean that can't change in a colony.
I'm speaking from hearing experiences from others, not just from things I've read.


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## Debbie05

I agree srtiel. Once my pairs have bonded, I don't seperate them. As for inbreeding a proper breeder would not let that happen. You can have tragic outcomes in both cases.


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## KTyne

How can you prevent inbreeding if you have nestboxes set up in a colony cage?
I understand if you have more than one colony and you don't keep related birds together but other than that I don't see how you can.


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## roxy culver

Because if a pair is bonded they won't mate with anyone else...take my Snowball for instance. He only mates with Hershey, he runs from any other hens who asks him for sex, to the point of climbing over them. And he's been offered by others but only wants Hershey. That's why you set them up in a cage setting first, let them bond, then put them in the colony. A bonded pair won't separate. They're "married" so to speak. And figuring out parents....watch which ones go in the box. And once the babies feather out, based on how they look, you can most of the time determine who the parents were. Pretty much when you're setting up pairs in a colony, you plan on letting them pick their own mates, you aren't picking mates for them. So if you only want a certain male with a certain hen then you would cage breed them first to help establish that bond. But I find my birds are happier when they get to choose their own mates.


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## srtiels

H*ow can you prevent inbreeding if you have nestboxes set up in a colony cage?*

Inbreeding can occur if the breeder is negligent and allows clutches of babies to fledge which then allows related pairing later on.

If ALL birds in the colony are unrelated there is no problem on which birds pair up together. Doing nestbox checks lets know watch and know which parents are which.

*I'm speaking from hearing experiences from others, not just from things I've read*

LOL...and it is from people that have no first hand experience make assumptions as to the worst case scenarios. And as to inbreeding there is probably alot more of that going on than people realize. For example someone buys a cockatiel, and later learns the sex...so they go looking for a bird of the other sex as a companion for their bird. *If* there is only 1 local breeder and this local breeder has only one pair there is a very good chance that the next bird that this person buys will be related to their bird, and the owner would not even realize this.


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## KTyne

Ok, so inbreeding can be prevented if you are on the ball all the time.

And striels, stop being so high and mighty. The people I've talked to are people that have plenty of experience successfully breeding for a number of years. Just because someone doesn't agree with your method of breeding, doesn't mean they're wrong.


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## srtiels

*And striels, stop being so high and mighty.*
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Point taken  But I get so frustrated when someone replies on a subject that has no first hand experience. It does not matter what you heard or read...it is hearsay and second hand info.


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## xoxsarahxox

I agree Susanne. I found out that the pet store I got Aero from only buys from one local breeder so if I went back there to get another tiel there is a chance that tiel could be related to Aero in some way ( although I dont know how many pairs this breeder has or if any of his/her birds paired off are related e.g. keeping 2 birds from a clutch then pairing them off with other birds.)


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## s25ale

KTyne said:


> Ok, so inbreeding can be prevented if you are on the ball all the time.
> 
> And striels, stop being so high and mighty. The people I've talked to are people that have plenty of experience successfully breeding for a number of years. Just because someone doesn't agree with your method of breeding, doesn't mean they're wrong.


To be honest i find your coments more 'high and mighty' than srtiels. I've asked for advise which several members have kindly addressed and you have taken over the thread with your own opinions and criticisms without any personal experience.


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## cookie232

As i mentioned earlier in this thread I am colony breeding, it was my intention to wait until next year to introduce nest boxes, as my husband is in the process of building my second flight with 8 compartments. My plan was to wait and see who paired up and then move them to their own flight. My tiels had other ideas and starting laying eggs just about anywhere they could  I found myself with 6 pairs, so put in 7 nest boxes. I have had no fighting or bickering at all, but as i am a stay at home mum, my aviary is in view from my house and i spent most of my time in the garden watching and observing them. I was prepared to move them if a problem had occured, but in fact the oppsoite has happened and i have some single females helping out with the pairs firstly sitting on the larger clutches and now feeding them. My concern when buying my birds over inbreeding, meant i travelled all over the uk to buy my birds, and only purchased 2 birds from each breeder known to be unrelated. Obviuosly i can not guarantee they are not long distance relatives but I tried my best by travelling hundreds of miles  I come from a family of bird fanciers, my grandad kept birds all his life, mainly budgies and love birds, and my father in law had over 100 budgies and was a member of all the clubs and travelled to all the bird shows. I consider both of them experts in their chosen birds, but apart from asking for advice on my aviary i dont ask them for advice about my tiels, as we have had many of conversation, about how different tiels are to the birds they have kept. I love this forum and the help and advice i have recieved here from very experienced breeders. I think its amazing that the members have the time to come on here and share their knowlege. I keep dwarf lop rabbits too and its a "closed" fancy, i have struggled to find anyone willing to give advice, or point me in the right direction, so once again i would to thank you all for being kind and generous with your knowlege and replies on here


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## Debbie05

I didn't find srtiel high and mighty at all. I found her to be informative on both Colony and cage breeding. I did however find you to be very forceful and opinionated. I find it annoying and rude when someone ask a question on here and another person comes on and jumps down there throat. She just asked a opinion.


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## srtiels

Thanks everyone 

I have both cage bred and colony bred. I have learned one thing though, that like people bonded pairs can become unbonded. A breeder will know when this happens because proven reliable parents will start to become negligent sitters and feeders or babies. When this is noted it is time for a 'birdie divorce', and a colony is great because the pair can choose new mates.

I have always allowed my cockatiels to select their own mates, which again a colony situation allows this. Once a mate is selected they can be cage bred to observe, and the pair gain parenting experience and later bred in a colony. 

OR, I have learned that many times the birds can do a better job at pairing themselves than I can. I have been surprised that somehow the birds can recognize compatible splits in other birds that I never knew was in their background. My first fallow babies in the nest were total surprises because I had no clue to the genetic background of the pair and yet they obviously knew. The same thing with other surprises in the nest.

When breeding in a colony it is advisable to have a large cage or flight. The colony can consist of all pairs or pairs and some singles, but as many unrelated birds as possible.

The only real downside I have had with colony breeding that if there was a disturbance especially at night, ALL the nest birds would pop out of the box to see what is going on. Many times if they were spooked they would abandon the nest til daylight. When this occurs, eggs and babies are lost from chilling. How to overcome this is to have a night light on all during the night. This way if something disturbs them they can see to go back in the nest.


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## s25ale

Thanks for all the info srtiel it is genuinly appreciated. I'm going to let both pairs breed in single flights this year and re-evaluate next year  

Heres two of the eldest chicks from my original pair taken tonight


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## srtiels

Wow...both babies are nice and healthy looking. The parents did a great job with them 

Good luck next breeding season. Once you know how each pair does as parents, you can expect the same once they are in a colony.


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## 4birdsNC

Susanne, are you saying that there is the possibility that next year McGee and Ziva maynot choose eachother? How comonon is this birdy divorce you mentioned? I love these two birds togeather, their babies are beautifull WF/Cinnamon split Lutino, and WF/Cinnamon/Pearls.


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## srtiels

*How comonon is this birdy divorce you mentioned?*
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Many pairs will stay together for years. Birdy Divorce is more common with 'bondage' pairs which are pairs that are forced together....meaning they had no choice in their mates or did not like who they were paired with.

You will know that the pair is good for each other when they are good incubators and take good care of the babies in the nest. 

When a pair starts to get dissatisfied with each other then they become neglectful sitter and poor or abusive parents. When this occurs it is best to let them pick new mates.


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## 4birdsNC

whew! Had me going there.... I let them pick their own mates... then I move them into their own honeymoon suites... but I do want to encourage Ducky (Pied cock) and Kate (Lutino Pearled hen), right now they are in the cage togeather with no other single birds... but I will be getting a new Little girl next month (Cinnamon/Pied/Pearl), and want to keep one of McGee and Ziva's litte boys (WF/Cinnamon split Lutino). so they will have a choice. Next season. Was just woried that McGee and Ziva would not continue to be a mated pair and would loose the preaty WF/Cinnamon babies they have. I would love to change up Tony and Abby, but they have been bonded almost from the moment I brought Abby into the house.


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## NuttyNu

I collony breed. Cage breeding does not suit my living style and would not be suitable for me.
I think it is all to their own.
I will admit, there are people who go on about the "invading" cockatiels to nest boxes but I don't get much of this. I ave only had 2 occasions so far in about 4 years of breeding. They learn each others respect. If there are enough males:female ratio and enough boxes and space, this would be minimised so much. Also, I would disagree a bit with Srtiels (Sorry!) about them all coming out of their box and not returning until morning. I have known a couple of boxes to be "evacuated" in night due to night fright but i have never found them all to evacuate the boxes. Again, this is just experience and It may just be down to my pairs. and I do understand why it is said all would leave, whilst this is a strong possibility, It has never happened to me!


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