# Female can't walk/support body weight



## Sifor (Dec 12, 2011)

Hi all, 

First time poster, however unfortunately for bad reasons.

I have a 6-7 year old female cockatiel. She has a male friend, however they are not breeding. Despite this, she is a chronic egg layer.

For several years she has been laying up to two eggs per week.. of course this is not constant, but in warmer months she'll easily do that. If I leave the egg in the cage she is terrified, hisses at it and flys around the cage, so I am forced to remove it, probably exacerbating the problem.

Anyway, this morning she was hiding in her cover on the floor in the laundry and I believe she was trying to pass an egg. Her friend, a male who is incredibly aggressive, probably disturbed her during this and I think she 'pushed up' her egg. Then she couldn't walk - basically just sitting there on the floor. I picked her up and then it became apparent that she couldn't climb up to my shoulder. On a flat surface, she 'moves' by pulling with her beak. 

3-4 hours later she passed the egg and I thought the problem would go away since it may have been exerting pressure on a nerve in her feet or something. Unfortunately this has not happened and she is still unable to walk. 

Aside from this, she is somewhat capable of climbing around the cage, ie her feet certainly move and when she sits on my finger she is gripping it. I don't think her feet are paralysed since when climbing in the cage her feet can support her weight. She was lying on my chest this afternoon and was grooming herself, accepting scratches, whistling out when our car enters the driveway, basically completely normal except for her inability to support her body weight.

Her diet consists on spinach, millet spray, cockatiel seed mix, a cuttlefish and grit bell and of course water. I read somewhere that a vitamin or calcium deficiency may have caused this due to her chronic egging. I have therefore purchased a vitamin supplement which goes in her water.

She is eating well, passed waste and I have used a pipette to give her water since she is finding it somewhat difficult to get to her water.

Does anyone have any advice to offer? An avian vet is wanting $65 per 30 minutes and for me that is a lot of money.

Thanks in advance for any advice you may have.

Kind regards,


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

She needs to see the vet ASAP. She sounds eggbound, or possibly like she could be suffering from a very serious infection as a result of her chronic laying. Avian medical care is expensive, but it is part of owning a pet. This sounds like an emergency, so you really shouldn't waste any time taking her in. Keep us updated! I hope she gets better.


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## Sifor (Dec 12, 2011)

enigma731 said:


> She needs to see the vet ASAP. She sounds eggbound, or possibly like she could be suffering from a very serious infection as a result of her chronic laying. Avian medical care is expensive, but it is part of owning a pet. This sounds like an emergency, so you really shouldn't waste any time taking her in. Keep us updated! I hope she gets better.


Thanks for your reply.

I didn't think cockatiels could carry more than one egg at a time? She had one this morning but could there be more?

If her situation has not improved tomorrow morning I will take her to the vet.

Regards,


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

As you are removing the eggs that is causing her to lay more so i would leave them in the cage


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It would be better to take her to the vet immediately. Something is very wrong, and if you wait she could be dead by tomorrow morning.


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## Sifor (Dec 12, 2011)

Ok Peach had a bad night last night, didn't sleep well as she was climbing her cage and whatnot.

This morning she was no good, looked even more tired (probably due to no sleep) so I have taken her to the avian vet. 

The vet said she is suffering from metabolic exhaustion brought about through her chronic egg laying. She has been admitted and put into a heat box and will be given supplements and injections when needed.

Apparently her diet is not right - her seed mix does contain sunflower seeds which turn out to be unhealthy, so I've implemented her new diet with my other cockatiel Ray.

I think she'll be alright since from what I gather she's just exhausted through depleted nutrients and calcium.

Thanks for all your advice, I'll keep everyone updated.


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## stevechurch2222 (Sep 25, 2011)

We will all be thinking of Peach,It sounds like she is in good hands.Keep us all informed.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Good luck to Peach, please keep us updated.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

What is the new diet you are implementing? She should have some sunflower seeds, especially if she is metabolically exhausted. They are very nutritional and she will need the calories.

You must also make changes to reduce her hormone levels. See this thread for instructions: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=2678

It is very important that you get her to stop laying eggs, even if this involves hormone injections. Chronic laying and metabolic depletion CAN be fatal. It can lead to egg binding or egg yolk peritonitis if her body is already depleted and she develops additional malformed eggs. Additional complications could be as serious as reproductive cancer. It is good that you are being proactive about this.


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## Kenziekenz (Dec 5, 2011)

So glad shes made it to the vet! Hopefully she pulls through and makes a speedy recovery!!  And once recovered, hopefully she can stop the egg laying! 

I had never even heard of chronic egg laying before coming on here. Its now something I am terrified of (even though of the 4 tiels I've owned, I haven't had that problem).


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Kenziekenz said:


> I had never even heard of chronic egg laying before coming on here. Its now something I am terrified of (even though of the 4 tiels I've owned, I haven't had that problem).


I worry about it with my female too, but I think as long as we take measures to prevent it, it should be fine.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm glad you took her to the vet for treatment. Do her legs seem to be working normally, apart from being too weak to hold her up? Chronic egg laying can cause a lot of problems, so I'm concerned that maybe she has some kind of internal damage that's causing pressure on a nerve, or that she was so calcium-deficient that her bones became brittle and she fractured something.


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## Sifor (Dec 12, 2011)

Yes her legs certaintly work. She is able to climb around the cage and she can grip my finger. I think she just has no energy/too weak to walk. However if she is suffering from lack of nutrients I'm wondering how she can go from perfectly fine one day to be unable to walk. I know they hide their sickness but surely such a condition would be progressive rather than all of a sudden.

The vet is giving me a call tonight for an update, will post once I know more. 

Once again thank you all for your replies.


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## Puppydog (Oct 13, 2011)

Poor girl! Its hard being a woman sometimes.


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## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

Keeping you guys in our thoughts! Poor girl.  

Again, this is why these forums can be so helpful. Even if you are NOT currently experiencing something that is affecting another's birds.. you can have a heads up with what to look for, what not to do, etc. Such a wealth of information.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> I'm wondering how she can go from perfectly fine one day to be unable to walk. I know they hide their sickness but surely such a condition would be progressive rather than all of a sudden.


The condition had to be progressive, but maybe she felt pretty good until that last egg pushed her beyond some critical boundary. Egg-laying takes a tremendous amount of nutrients out of the body, especially calcium, and calcium plays a role in muscle function. It's lucky that she had enough strength to deliver that egg.

When she gets home you'll need to start teaching her and her mate to accept pellets which isn't an easy task. Nutriberries are equivalent to pellets but they look like seed balls so it's easier to get cockatiels to eat them. There's a thread at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=15126 that tells how to contact several pellet companies to ask for free samples including Lafeber (the maker of Nutriberries). Write to all of them, being sure to specify that you have cockatiels, and then you'll be able to try your birds out on several different things at no cost to you.


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## Sifor (Dec 12, 2011)

Just an update for everyone.

This morning the vet said she had improved and was able to walk so she was transferred from a heatbox thing to a cage.

Peach is, however, a hypoactive bird. She loves people so instead of resting she was running up and down the cage and climbing around.

This evening the vet phoned again and said she has suffered a set back. Apparently they thought she was stronger than she really was and all that running around has exhausted her again.

She has since been moved back to the incubator as she can't stand again and because of this is finding it difficult to past waste.

The vet will call again tomorrow morning so hopefully she will have a good sleep and rest up. If the night goes well, I think the vet will keep her in the box for some time before transferring her to a cage.

What I'm worried about is that our family is going away for 28 days in early January and a friend with an aviary (containing 2 cockatiels) was going to look after our two birds. Peach may not be strong enough for this and at $17 per day the cost will be far too great and we may have to think of other options unfortunately. I miss her dreadfully, it might be better to have her back home in a comfortable environment and let nature take its course.


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## Fortunate (Oct 31, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear about Peach! holding thumbs for you and her!


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## morla (Aug 15, 2011)

Aw! Poor girl! I hope she gets better!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If you have to bring her home, it might help to keep her in a travel carrier or a small, low cage so she doesn't have a lot of room for running around and exhausting herself. Also put her in a warm, quiet room where people don't go much so she won't have a reason to get excited and run around. If at all possible, keep her at the vet until she's gotten some strength back.


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## Sifor (Dec 12, 2011)

Spoke to the vet tonight with some good news to report.

The vet's words were "she's acting like a normal bird". She has not been moved into a cage yet as they want to be sure she's okay to avoid what happened the last time.

So far, she has had 12 injections including vitamins, calcium and hormones. Apparently she was very bright and alert today so I'm pleased. They would now like to stop treatment and monitor her over the weekend with a Monday pickup if all goes well. She will remain in the box until Saturday morning (at the time of writing this post it is Thursday evening). On the weekend they will move her into a cage and continue to monitor her health with a Monday pickup.

I'm probably going to visit her tomorrow to see how she's doing with my own eyes.

Thank you all for your wise words, I will take your suggestions on board.

Will keep you updated!

Cheers


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## Puppydog (Oct 13, 2011)

I hope she continues to improve.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Glad to hear she is doing better!


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## Sifor (Dec 12, 2011)

I wasn't able to see her today however the vet phoned this evening.

Peach is eating well, can stand, past waste, acting normal etc however, she is losing significant weight. The vet said if she was a 'human' she would be considered anorexic. She is already a very small bird (she was given to us by a breeder because of this) so I could imagine what effect this would have on her small body.

They are feeding her sunflower seeds (which she is eating) as their 'normal' seed diet does not include any, however they are at a loss as to why this is happening... I think she mentioned the possibility of her having a tumor or something but they wouldn't know without a blood test. I have to be rational, since she is a bird and I'm already paying $200 for her treatment. Any operations are out of the question, as much as I love her.

I'm wondering, perhaps she is loosing significant weight because of the stress? Like, if she came home into a calm and familiar environment that might help? In saying that though, I don't want her to be in any pain.

I'm also leaving in two and a half weeks for a month long overseas holiday...

The vet said I should come in tomorrow, which I will do. I think decisions will be made, so any advice at this stage would be welcomed. I'm not sure and I think the vet is having the same dilemma. 

Thanks


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Any illness can cause loss in weight. But you do have to draw the line somewhere. You have done an amazing job getting her well, but sometimes we just can't afford ALL the care that is needed. You just have to decide what's within your budget and go with that.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

There's no reason to keep her at the vet unless the vet can do something to help her that you can't do. It sounds like they're just observing her at this point so maybe it's time for her to come home. 

If you do bring her home you'll need to minimize her stress. Maybe that means putting her in a quiet room where she can rest; maybe it means putting her in a familiar place where she can live the way she normally does. You'll have to figure out what makes her happiest after you get her home. It's probably best not to put her in the same cage as her mate, although it's OK for them to be in side by side cages. If they have the opportunity to mate she might start laying eggs again which is very dangerous. Use the long nights treatment on both birds to keep them out of the mood. That's 12-14 hours of uninterrupted darkness every night. Your hen will probably benefit from the extra sleep in other ways too.


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## birdgirl (Jul 13, 2010)

Hi Sifor sorry to hear about Peach, our female tiel charlier laid 4 eggs every few months, they were never fertile as she wouldnt let bradley mate with her they werent a bonded pair, our avian vet said to leave the eggs in the cage and remove them after 28 days as otherwise she wouldnt think shed laid them all and would keep laying to make up the numbers so thats what she did, she would sit on them and get very aggressive, she would give up on them before the 28 days but we still left them in for the 28 days. Sadly we lost charlie a couple of weeks ago but not due to the egg situation. We feed our tiels Xtravital by Beaphar, it contains echinacea and egg food, our budgie has the same but for budgies. Hope this helps


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## Sifor (Dec 12, 2011)

Just got back from the vet.

Her starting weight on admission was 64 grams, today she weights 54 grams. The Dr said a loss of 4 grams per day is significant. She is being crop fed 1ml due to her small size (a normal sized cockatiel can take 3ml). They are concerned because she is eating like crazy and not putting on or maintaining her weight.

While I was there she was eating her food, nibbling on silver beat, drinking water etc and behaving normal. She is very tired though, has something to eat then just stands there and shuts her eyes.

The doctor said her waste has a lot of bile in it - 'watery' around the poo bit. He says this can indicate organ damage, probably the liver, due to her metabolic exhaustion. 

He says she can come home anytime, then be brought back, but I decided to leave her there because she just looks plain sick. She's comfortable, in no pain, and enjoying the heat box. The vet will continue to phone morning and evening with updates.

The vet agreed that if she continues to lose weight each day I should take her home soon and let myself and my other bird Ray spend time with her. He said she could just go to sleep and not wake up, a good outcome, or she may slowly deteriorate and lose energy in which case I can take her back to the vet and euthanise her.

It's hard, both emotionally and financially (bill so far is $205, but he said they'll only charge cost price from now on), but I can only go off the advice the vet and members here give as to what I should do.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

If she can't maintain her weight then it may be best to let her go, as much as she's been through. If there is an underlying illness then she could have tests run and be treated, but then again will she even last long enough for that? It typically takes about 5 days to get results back but then she'd have to last the treatment period as well..for some diseases treatment can take 45 days but can be administered by the owner rather than the vet. It's a decision you need to make yourself...it's a tough one.

I've spent a lot on my birds to keep them healthy and to save (and on occassion _try_ to save) them. I wouldn't say that i regret it, but it definitely makes you think. I would spend the same amount on Ava trying to save her even though i now know that she wouldn't make it no matter how much i spent. But there is a place where you should draw the line...you just need to decide where that is.


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## birdgirl (Jul 13, 2010)

*Peach*

Hi Sifor you are doing all you can for Peach and i commend you for it, if you do have to let Peach go you will know you have done everything you can for her, fingers crossed for you both she is a lovely girl


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Has there been any discussion about getting an xray? I think if this were my bird, I would want that before making any decisions. That way you can know what's going on internally -- whether this is something reproductive, or some type of tumor like you said the vet suspects. You might even be able to see organ inflammation. Just something to think about. I wish you the best with these difficult decisions.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It doesn't sound good but I hope that things will work out somehow. Best of luck to all of you.


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## Sifor (Dec 12, 2011)

Vet rang last night.. she's up 1 gram lol but I guess that could be from a prior feeding that day.. maybe, maybe not, will know more tonight. At least it didn't go down. Vet also said she was whistling so maybe my visits help 

Here's a picture taken a few years ago (she hasn't changed much!). Vet did say she's the smallest cockatiel she had seen.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

She's a beautiful girl. I hope that whatever was causing the weight loss has straightened itself out and she can start gaining the weight back.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Up a gram is good! Even if it's not a "real" gain, it means there wasn't more catastrophic loss today. What is her normal weight? Tiny doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy.


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## Sifor (Dec 12, 2011)

Just got off the phone with the vet, she has improved today.

Her weight was down this morning but when she weighed her this evening she was going up, 58 grams I think the vet said.

Her poo is a lot more "normal" looking too. Not perfect, but coming along. Her beak is better looking and her eyes are more open.

At this stage, the vet does not recommend euthanasia so that's good to know.

She thinks Peach had been in a form of shock, which caused her organs to deteriorate. The only treatment she is receiving at the moment is crop feeding, which will continue until her weight further increases. At $17 a day I'm happy for her to have more time there since I wouldn't want to bring her home too early and have her relapse.

The vet will call this time tomorrow, so I'll continue to post updates.

This is an incredible relief for my family and I as we were planning for the worst tomorrow. Apparently peach is in love with her new heat box and is eating all her food.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

That is wonderful news! This story may have a happy ending after all.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Y'all are in our thoughts. Please keep us updated. We are hoping for the best.


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## Sifor (Dec 12, 2011)

Spoke to vet, she's up 2 grams today.

She wants to keep Peach in the hotbox until her weight reaches 68 grams (as of today, she's 58). I think that's wise, don't want her to go backwards.

Her poo is looking much more normal too. Her eyes are opening more etc.

I won't reply for a few more days now that she's on the mend.

Cheers!


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## stevechurch2222 (Sep 25, 2011)

So glad to hear that Peach is doing better.That's wonderful news.


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## jeme (Jan 19, 2010)

Fantastic news! 

I was so worried about her.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm glad she's doing better! She's such a pretty bird.


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## nannaa77 (Dec 18, 2011)

Yasmin was a chronic egg layer , i had her for 1 year and she always layed eggs , and she startet loosing lot weight and had a terrible calcium loss , she was seeing a vet once in month and i did evrything so she would stop laying , but then i found something out that worked i bought fake cockatiel eggs ! and puttet them underher while she had her eggs so her scent would be on the eggs ! and when she wanted more eggs i puttet the fake once and she accepted it and didnt lay eggs cause if they see there are enough eggs to take care of they wont lay more  !! and that worked and she got her body weight perfectly again and she was ok 
and now she lives with the a new family and i think they keep doing it


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## Kenziekenz (Dec 5, 2011)

Thats wonderful! I have felt so bad for peach. So glad she's doing better!


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## Sifor (Dec 12, 2011)

Peach is up to 60 grams tonight and I'm picking her up tomorrow afternoon. 

Thanks everyone, your guidance has been invaluable.

Cheers!


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## stevechurch2222 (Sep 25, 2011)

That is wonderful news,glad to hear that Peach is doing better.


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## Kenziekenz (Dec 5, 2011)

Yay! Hopefully she keeps improving!


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Keep us posted on her progress! I think everyone here is relieved to hear she is doing well. We all feel each other's pain as each member goes through new ordeals with their feathered babies..


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## Sifor (Dec 12, 2011)

And she's home 

She's currently 59 grams, down one from yesterday. The vet didn't seem that worried though, so hopefully she'll just keep eating and be okay.

I've got her in a separate cage at the moment so she settles. She has been whistling, climbing around, pruning and doing her usual activities so I'm happy she's okay.

I'm just glad she has pulled through, but it's not over yet. The vet said she will eventually need a hysterectomy.. I'm not convinced since I have removed the source of her stimulus and 'nest'. Time will tell though.

Thank you everyone for your wonderful advice.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm glad she's home and doing better.


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## mickikooi (Apr 29, 2011)

Can the vet try her on birth control first, before resorting to a hysterectomy? My brother's bird is a chronic egg-layer and they take her to the vet for her shot every couple of months, seems to calm things down a great deal. Hope she is still doing well!


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