# Losing tameness?



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

I know birds that aren't handled regularly can lose their tameness. Just wondering how long it usually takes? I posted earlier about my issue with Juju and Moon not wanting to hang out with me now that Storm is around, and I'm worried Moon will start to "go wild" if Storm doesn't warm up to me soon. Juju, I'm not so worried about; he originally came from a hoarding situation before making his way to his previous owner and then to me. And he always remained friendly toward people. He still wants his scritches, though he will not sit on me. Moon, on the other hand, never liked scritches so I don't have any way to handle him now. He'll step up any time I ask, but doesn't stay on my hand unless I have millet. He still chirps excitedly when I come home and calls for me when I leave, but we can't bond like we used to when he'd sit on me. He rarely talks anymore now that Storm is around, which is sad because it was one of his most endearing quirks how he would express himself this way.

Anyway, let's say it takes another six months for me to tame Storm (thinking worst case scenario here). How likely is it that Moon will forget what it was like to sit on me, and how much he used to enjoy it? I don't want to totally lose my connection with him even if he decides he likes Storm better than me.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

As long as you keep working with him he won't revert to being untamed. Sitting on you (or not) is a question of motivation, and right now he's more motivated to hang out with Storm than with you. 

I know they're both males, but Moon's interest in Storm sounds like a mating attraction; males tend to velcro themselves to a female that they like. So he might be less interested in pursuing Storm if you use hormone control.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Thanks.
They get 11-12 hours of sleep per night, and just moved to a new cage not long ago. If it helps I could rearrange the cage every week...it just really freaks Storm out when I do things like that, and I usually can't get him out of the cage to do it. The boys have all been cranky with each other since the move...maybe because they're still settling into the new cage and each is trying to establish it as their territory. They don't fight, but get annoyed with each other frequently. Even Moon and Storm. Moon preens Storm occasionally and they sing to each other, but they also seem to want their own space. When one sings, the other gets annoyed and beaks him. So I guess they're bonding, but establishing boundaries...


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Don't rearrange things too much if it upsets Storm. Controlling the apparent day length is usually the most effective technique anyway - you want to make them think the nights are 12 to 14 hours long. 

Is the new cage big enough to give them plenty of space to get away from each other when they don't want to be too close? I assume that you still have the smaller cage available. It might be helpful to have both cages available in your bird room. You could keep one bird in the smaller cage (taking turns) if that makes life more peaceful. The birds will still have each other's company but there will be less scope for fighting.


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## rashid100 (Oct 3, 2012)

i say its hormonal..


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

It's so hard for me to give them nights longer than 12 hours.  Most days, I'm gone for 9-10 hours, and I'm splitting what little time I have left between Freya and the boys. But I'll try increasing it as much as I can...12 hours on days I work, 13 when I don't. But even with hormone control methods, it's unreasonable to expect them to completely stop being birds and having "feelings" for each other, right? It was very obvious when Juju was hormonal earlier this year...he did a complete 180 and started being very defensive toward me (when he briefly chose Moon as his mate). Moon's not acting like that at all; he's still a nice bird. We'll see if time and slightly longer nights change anything.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> it's unreasonable to expect them to completely stop being birds and having "feelings" for each other, right?


When the hormone levels drop their feelings for each other won't be so intense. They'll have room in their lives for other friends.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Yes, of course. Moon is being a total jerk to Juju lately, and vice versa. They all seem a little on edge. Today I had them all out (used Moon as bait again, and millet) and Storm did great. Climbed on me, sat on my chest and shoulders and hand, and did not seem afraid. But he and Moon were fighting over my shoulder. Storm would follow him everywhere and copy everything he did, but when Moon got too close he'd "attack" him. 
Buuut, Moon still seems to like me so that's good. Storm seems to tolerate me when it means being close to Moon, and I know he loves the millet I give him. Thanks to copying Moon, he seems to have discovered that he likes chewing on my hair and shirt as well.

As for cage size, they have an A&E flight that stays open all the time except at night. So enough space for now, though it's the minimum. I'm looking to get them a double flight soon.


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

A double stack might be best for you but I would definitely wait until you add freya to the flock. Adding a new bird can change your flock dynamics completely.


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