# HELP-5 week low weight, newbie



## Dmall123 (Mar 6, 2013)

Hello,
I just got a 5 week old cockatiel. I have never hand fed, but have had them as pets. Recently, I purchased a breeding pair. Since I haven't hand fed before, I thought this 5 week old would be perfect for me to start hand feeding. Plus, I wanted a pet cockatiel. This baby is incredibly sweet, has all of his feathers and very active. He already wants to be with me all of the time and stays on my shoulder. I got him Friday night, and was told that he is on a 2/day feeding. 

After reading lots of info on this forum and other sites, I saw a chart where the minimum weight should be 80 grams. I weighed him Saturday night and he was 65 grams. I fed him twice on Saturday. Since I should weigh him in the morning, I tried not to be too concerned; however, yesterday morning, he weighed 55 grams. Then, this morning, he weighed 50 grams. He cried a lot for food yesterday, so I fed him 3 times. Since he obviously has a healthy appetite, is it okay to feed him 4 0r 5 times (whenever he cries)? On average, he consumes 6-8cc per feeding. I use a syringe.

Another concern of mine is that I don't know how to determine the correct feel of the crop. I do feel the puffiness after he eats. How much is too much??? How do I find info on the correct size or feel of the crop. And, also, I did weigh him about an hour after his morning feeding, and he had gained 5 grams. I ship packages daily, so I am pretty sure that my scale is correct.

Today, I fed him at 7am and 12:30am. And, the frequency and appearance of his droppings all look normal.

Thank you SO much for any help/advice.
Donna:wf grey:


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## cknauf (Aug 27, 2012)

I am not experienced with hand-feeding, just FYI, but since no more experienced member has yet replied:

80 grams shouldn't be a hard minimum. Healthy adult birds can weigh less than that--much of size is genetic, so don't worry too much about the actual number, but whether it's changing.

An individual chick's weaning schedule may be different than the recommended schedule. Several members here advocate "abundance weaning". Googling will give you some good hits on how to do that.

EDIT: Members here also recommend feeding 10% of "empty weight". srtiel's website has a good overview.


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## Dmall123 (Mar 6, 2013)

*Thanks!*

cknauf,
Thanks for your reply. That article is very good. It basically covers many of my questions. I would like some comments about the baby's weight. I have to say that he appears to be leading me. He stops when he doesn't want more food, and the crop seems to be full, but not "bursting". I just did another feeding, and he stopped much sooner than the prior attempts. 

Again, thanks so much!
Donna


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## ollieandme (Mar 25, 2013)

disclaimer: i'm not a handfeeding expert. 
off the top of my head i'd say you wouldn't want the baby losing weight that radically so feeding often would the the only option.

someone feel free to correct me. and good luck!


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## Dmall123 (Mar 6, 2013)

I think he just likes to be spoiled! :angel: He was 55grams this morning. He is now stopping for a few minutes after eating. He shakes the food off his head and tries to eat what hits the side of the container. So, I offer the syringe & he eats a little more. Of course, it is probably me as I am trying to be consistent with the texture and temp of the formula. He weighed 65 after his feeding. He really seems to be happy, smart, and well adjusted. And, I am becoming more comfortable with feeding too.
Thanks, you guys, for responding. It is great to have a place to ask questions.
Donna


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

He should be trying adult food at this age...which is why he should only be on two a day feedings. I would only feed 10% of his body weight and make sure he has plenty of millet to peck at (millet is a good starter food.) I would not feed him whenever he cries, as this could cause issues. Every bird's weight varies, so saying he should be 80g is not true. I had a male lutino pearl who was solid at 77g. 

Also remember, he's not always crying for food. Babies learn that when they cry, they get attention. So he may be crying for YOU not necessarily for food. Stick to the schedule, this will make weaning easier.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

This baby is losing weight which is an indicator that he isn't getting enough to eat. 80 grams isn't a hard and fast rule, but I think you should handfeed him every time he begs for food until his weight recovers to at least 65 grams. 75 grams would probably be better.

How thick are you mixing the formula? If you scoop some up on a spoon and then turn it sideways, the formula should run off slowly. If the formula is too thin, the baby is getting too much water and not enough calories and nutrients.

Another question: what are you feeding him? If it's a manufactured handfeeding formula made for baby parrots, the quality should be OK. If it's your own homemade recipe it isn't going to be adequate. There's no substitute for a good commercial formula.

I think it qualifies as an emergency when a baby loses 15 grams in 3 days and possibly more than that before you started weighing him. If you can turn the situation around right away by feeding him more often and/or adjusting the mix as needed, things will probably be OK. But if you can't solve the problem immediately on your own you will need to get help. Some of the options are to return the baby to the seller, ask an experienced breeder to feed it for you and/or give you lessons on better feeding technique, or to consult an avian vet. For online help, the most experienced breeder I know is Susanne/srtiels, who is available at https://www.facebook.com/groups/ICR.unite/ and is great at helping people.

It's the baby's "empty" weight that's meaningful, so that's what you need to keep an eye on.


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## Dmall123 (Mar 6, 2013)

I am feeding Exact formula with the "applesauce" thickness. Not too thin or thick. I have read quite a bit on the internet. I try to be as thorough as possible, but of course, there is a lot of information to absorb. I give him both millet and a small seed diet along with water. He is not wanting as much of the formula now, but does seem to cry too often which might be the attention thing. He knows when I walk into the room. I do keep him out of his cage a lot because I want to. But, I also realize that he needs to learn a little independence and time to explore for the millet/seed.

I do have a breeding pair that eats Exact Rainbow as well as Exact Natural Complete (small pellets??) along with a seed mix. The older birds also love wheat (Ritz) crackers) occasionally. I haven't had too much luck with fruits/vegetables, but I try. I don't want him to be solely on seed as he gets older. His weight is staying more at the 60-65grams.

I appreciate all advice. My primary concern was the minimum 80g as this chart is posted on more than one reputable site. If you guys think that a lower rate is acceptable (and of course considering all other factors are working), then I will continue to monitor and stay on course. I will make sure that his weight stays steady. It hasn't declined since my original post. I was thinking that 3 times/day until he starts steadily gaining. I have noticed that he does eat the seed when I ignore him. So, I don't know whether to reduce to 2 times/day or stick with 3 (or more). Thanks!
Donna


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## Amz (Apr 10, 2013)

80g is definitely not accurate. Maybe for some birds it is, but Rocko is 6 months old and he's just barely 80g himself. I check his keel bone regularly and he's an ideal weight.

55g for 5 weeks sounds okay to me, just check the keel bone to be sure.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

A range of approximately 80g to 120g is considered to be the typical average weight for a cockatiel, but there are many birds who weigh more or less than that and are perfectly healthy. There is a LOT of variation in individual size, and the same weight that's appropriate for one bird might not be appropriate for another, whether or not that weight falls within the average size range. It doesn't seem to be too common though for cockatiels to weigh less than 75 grams.

The best way to determine the appropriateness of a bird's weight is to feel the keel bone, and we have information on how to do it at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=17680 It's not easy for an inexperienced person to judge however. I think that all my birds feel bony, but the vet says they're fine.

Give your baby plenty of opportunity to observe the older birds eating pellets; he will watch and learn. If you're in the US or Canada you have easy access to Nutriberries, which are nutritionally equivalent to pellets but look like seed balls, so it's usually easier to convince birds to eat them. Most cockatiels don't like fruit (it isn't part of their natural diet) so you don't have to bother with that. But most of them will eventually learn to eat vegetables, which are more nutritious than fruit anyway. I have tips on encouraging a bird to try new foods at http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/nutrition-conversion.html

One of the advantages of handfeeding is that the baby sees human hands as a source of food, and you can encourage him to eat adult foods by holding the food in your hand. Start out by holding some food in your hand that he already recognizes to make sure he gets the idea, then add some food that you want him to learn. He's likely to give it a nibble.


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## Dmall123 (Mar 6, 2013)

*Thanks!*

tielfan,
Thank you SO much!! That is incredibly helpful advice. When I saw the advice from Amz about the keel bone, that was great! So, thanks for the link. 

I am a "retired" CPA who now teaches college accounting, so I am a detailed minded personality. LOL! 

These birds are so loving and sweet. I had one who passed away a few months ago, and I mourned for weeks. This baby already knows me. My husband says the he didn't cry at all when they spent a few hours with him while I was at school. But, when I got home, he started crying immediately. I tend to spoil all of my pets. But, they give me a lot in return.:wf grey:


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## Amz (Apr 10, 2013)

Dmall123 said:


> tielfan,
> Thank you SO much!! That is incredibly helpful advice. When I saw the advice from Amz about the keel bone, that was great! So, thanks for the link.


Oops, sorry... I probably should've provided an explanation  It took me a long time to find info on how to feel keel bones (I'd find pages saying "feel the keel!" but never an explanation HOW), so I should've remembered haha.

Thanks tielfan for posting it for me


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