# Administering medicine



## olive juice (Mar 30, 2009)

Okay so I just had the scare of my life.
Yesterday I took Halley to the vet because I'm in the midst of changing his diet. Everything was good, she was actually surprised at how healthy he looked, having been on an all-seed diet. She took a dropping sample for a gram stain and said she'd call me with the results but she expected them to be okay, and I went home feeling good.
Well, 40 minutes later she calls and says there's a build-up of yeast in his droppings, way more than is normal, and that it sometimes happens during diet changes. She wrote out a prescription and told me to give it to him twice orally for two weeks, and then bring another dropping sample back to be tested.

Of course that automatically put me in a foul mood. I know it doesn't mean he's ill, but I don't like it anyway, so I've been blahh ever since.
I've seen pictures of how to hold a bird while adminstering medicine, thanks to this site, so I wrapped Halley up in his favorite blanket, held him upright, and put the syringe near him. He bit onto it, and I injected a little bit of the medicine. Immediately Halley closed his eyes and burrowed into the blanket, and it scared me so I let him go. He was acting like he couldn't breathe, making this weird little gasping noise, and his tongue was held really stiffly up in his mouth, looking like he can't breathe, so of course I start panicking. I don't know what to do, though...I try to give him water and he refuses. He can't chirp, he could hardly move, just standing on my knee making that noise. Slowly, the medicine started leaking out his nostrils, which made me freak out even MORE because I thought I'd somehow gotten it into his lungs. So I'm sitting here sobbing thinking I've killed my bird, wiping the stuff out of his nostrils until it stops. He seems to be okay now. He's still making that weird noise, but he's walking around and playing with things.

Needless to say, I'm too terrified now to try it again.
Help?


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## JaspersMomma (Dec 11, 2008)

Oh dear, I really don't know what to tell, so I hope someone can help you soon, I just want to say that I hope he gets better.


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## sweetrsue (Jul 8, 2008)

Maybe the vet can suggest an alternative method of getting the medicine into your baby. If it's antibiotics make sure you have some Probiotics when the course is thru. Ornabac or benebac sold in pet stores. It's a powder you sprinkle over moist foods. If you use it periodically after that chances are you will not get a return of this yeast problems. Ornabac populates their digestive systems with good bacteria and does not allow bad bacteria to take hold.


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## olive juice (Mar 30, 2009)

sweetrsue said:


> Ornabac or benebac sold in pet stores. It's a powder you sprinkle over moist foods. If you use it periodically after that chances are you will not get a return of this yeast problems. Ornabac populates their digestive systems with good bacteria and does not allow bad bacteria to take hold.


Ah, that's good to know.
I called the vet, but she's in meetings all day. Hopefully she'll give my roommate a call back while I'm at work.
Halley seems to be just fine now, thank God. He's not making that little croaking noise, and he's preening and eating just fine. Also, I've finally stopped crying.


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## Lola's_mommy (Nov 30, 2008)

I had to give my tiel antibiotics for 2 weeks, 2 times a day, and it was a real pain. Lola knew that when I came near her with the towel that it was medicine time and she would make it very difficult for me to catch her. She would also constantly bite at the syringe, making it difficult to get the medicine in her at a slow rate. She ended up choking on it quite a bit and I was very frustrated throughout the entire time. I had called my vet and they didn't offer me any helpful advice. 

I later had a parakeet that needed antibiotics who is not tame and I thought it was going to be impossible to administer the medication. She ended up being much easier. I hooked the syringe to the end of her beak and she was not able to turn her head away from me. It also made it easier to control the amount that I injected - I didn't have to feed her quickly - I could inject her more slowly and she didn't have any complications.

If I have to give med. to my tiel again, I will towel wrap her and hook the syringe to the end of her beak to give me control instead of her. It really does make it easier. And only put in a little medicine at a time so it doesn't go down your tiel's airway. It does get easier, but it sure is scary at first, especially when it does go down the airway. But mine survived my pathetic attempts, so I'm sure you will do fine. Good luck!!!


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## olive juice (Mar 30, 2009)

Thanks 

My vet called back and suggested that I put the medicine on something I know Halley likes to eat, like bread or apple sauce or something. I'm skeptical about it. He's supposed to get 0.3 mL of it, twice a day. Apparently while I was at work, my roommate managed to feed him a small amount via bread, but not nearly as much as he's supposed to get. Halley's pretty stubborn when it comes to eating things he doesn't want to eat.

I'm also too scared, I think, to try injecting it into his beak again. I just keep picturing him perched on my knee, struggling to breathe...*shudder* Definitely the scariest thing that's ever happened to me. Obviously I have to work something out, though..


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

It's a real pain when they refuse to take medicine.. but I think putting it on something he likes is a much better and easier option, rather then trying to get it in his beak and completely miss. (which means losing more of the medicine that you need)

I hope he's better soon!


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## olive juice (Mar 30, 2009)

Thank you 

I tried what the vet suggested, and true to his stubborn form, Halley ate around the medicated bread. So I had no choice but to wrap him up in a towel again and inject the medicine. This time I did it a VERY little bit at a time, and I suppose Halley knew what to expect this time. Anyways, he took it! (Very grudgingly, mind you. And he was NOT happy with me when I let him go.) But still!


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## olive juice (Mar 30, 2009)

I don't think he's actually ingesting the medicine. I've successfully given it to him three times now, and I think Halley's beginning to outsmart me. Here's how it goes:
I wrap him in the towel, which he actually doesn't seem to mind. He doesn't try to get away when he sees the towel coming, anyway, but once he's restrained he bites at it (and me, if my hands are near his face). I hold the syringe to his beak and he immediately begins biting at it. I slowly inject the medicine while it's in his mouth, bit by bit, and give him breaks in between to swallow. But the last time I did it, I watched closely...Halley holds the medicine in his mouth, then either lets it slide out or shakes his head to flick it out. I'm sure he's swallowing some of it but I'm not sure if it's enough, and I don't know how mind-control him into swallowing it, heh..


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## Lola's_mommy (Nov 30, 2008)

Just keep injecting very small amounts at a time, with a break between every small injection. I think a little spills out anyway, because I had to clean my tiel's and keet's face afterward. But I think most went down. I always seem to have a little extra medicine in the bottle, so each dose I have to give my bird, I put a little bit extra in the syringe to make up for what was lost. And then offer something your tiel likes afterward as a reward for taking his medicine - and to help clear out that nasty taste.


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## olive juice (Mar 30, 2009)

Thanks 

I'm really quite worried about Halley. I don't know if he's sick, or stressed from everything, or what...he's be really puffed-up the last few days. He doesn't do much else but sleep and preen. He's also been very cranky with me...it doesn't help that I keep forcing icky medicine into his beak. I give him the medicine at 8 am and then again at 8 pm, unless I'm at work, and then it's usually around 11 pm. This morning at 8 I uncovered him and stuck my hand in for him to step up...he bit the crap out of me and it took a lot of coaxing to get him to come out. He knew the medicine was coming, I suspect.
But he hardly whistles lately, he's very quiet all the time, when before he would start screaming as soon as the sun came up. When I take him out, he doesn't want to do anything but perch on part of me and preen or sleep. He's been extremely clingy. He's still eating, drinking, and pooping, but gah.
I need to take him to the vet I think, but I have $40 in the bank and can't afford another $90 visit. It's breaking my heart..whenever I think about it or look at him all puffy in his cage, I get teary-eyed. I'm stressing out so badly...with Halley, and money issues, and the fact that I have SO much schoolwork within the next week...I just don't know.


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## sweetrsue (Jul 8, 2008)

How close are you to the end of the antibiotics? I would be anxious to get him on Ornabac. It will re-balance him system. Since it aids in digestion it tends to improve their appetite. It will also enable him to fight off future infections. I've never had to give my birds antibiotics. I make sure they get Ornabac regularly. With a bird trying to recover from antibiotic treatment I would give it every day 'till he is back to his old self again.


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## olive juice (Mar 30, 2009)

I have one more week of the antibiotics left.
Should I get the Ornabac and give it to him while he's on the medication? Or should I wait until he's done?


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## sweetrsue (Jul 8, 2008)

The Beneficial bacteria would be killed off by the antibiotic so there's no point in giving it to your bird 'till they are done. That's also why it's critically important to get him on Ornabac as soon as he is done because antibiotics also kill the good bacteria he had in his digestive system.


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## olive juice (Mar 30, 2009)

Okay, that's very good to know. I'll pick some up ASAP.

Well, I had hope that Halley was feeling better. When I came home today he was acting normal, chirping at me, heart-shaped wings, everything. He ate some seed and now he's perched and puffed-up again. Are these symptoms normal for stress? I'd imagine a new diet plus daily dosages of medicine are really stressing him out. There aren't any other symptoms except for lots of sleeping. Of course I don't want to take risks, but I also don't want to spend another $90 for the vet to tell me it's a side effect of the medicine.


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## sweetrsue (Jul 8, 2008)

If I were you I wouldn't try to change his diet too drastically right now. That does put stress on them. It especially effects their digestive systems. Try to back off a little and include some of the things you have been eliminating. You can slowly alter his diet when he is well. Stress doesn't usually manifest itself by the bird puffing up but it can effect a birds system thus making him sick.
 *Routine probiotic therapy can help in the prevention of disease in the aviary and nursery.*
*It is during times of illness, antibiotic therapy, injury and excessive stress that the normal microflora, pH and digestive process can be effected. Examples of stress that can alter a birds normal microflora populations in the gut are: feed or formula changes, poor nutrition, hatching, weaning, inadequate or close housing, shipping, excessive temperatures, exposure to pathogenic microorganisms or viruses, weakened immune system, and over exertion. Stress can lead to a decrease in food intake, and without adequate energy sources, beneficial microflora populations’ decline. Subsequently, the pH of the GI tract rises and pathogenic bacterial populations increase. Direct-fed microbials can reestablish the natural gut flora that in turn lower the intestinal pH, making the GI environment less favorable for disease causing organisms. Probiotic therapy will introduce "good" bacteria into the gut, encourage colonization and a healthy growth of microflora. The probiotics will prevent undesirable organisms (pathogens) from gaining a foothold and colonizing in the intestine ultimately causing illness.*


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## olive juice (Mar 30, 2009)

Yeah, that's what the vet thinks (and I do too) is causing him stress - the diet change. Starting yesterday I've given him back his seeds. I never totally took away his seeds, I just offered him less than usual, but now it's back to a dish full. I still offer veggies once/twice a day, which he eats, and pellets, which he ignores. I'm just concerned that after this week, when his medicine regime stops and the yeast is taken care of, that any continuation of the diet change will make it come back. Though hopefully the Ornabac will help with that.


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## sweetrsue (Jul 8, 2008)

It sounds like an OK diet for now. It great that he eats the veggies. That gives you something to sprinkle the Ornaback on!


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## olive juice (Mar 30, 2009)

Thank you for all of your help 

Halley seems to be doing a bit better. He's more vocal and active, plenty of droppings, and he seems to be eating plenty. He's still cranky about the medicine, but I'm making sure he's actually ingesting it and not just spitting it out. I inject a little, and stroke his crest/beak, sing to him, talk to him, and then I inject a little more. It takes much longer but he spits less of it out, so it's worth it.


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## Lola's_mommy (Nov 30, 2008)

Good job, sounds like you are getting the hang of it. I was so thrilled when the final dosage came, but I was finally getting better at it by then. Hopefully it is something neither one of us will have to do again, but at least we know we can do it if we have to. I think the key to it all is patience, and it may seem like a long time to get down a dose, but the slower the better. And I really think we get more stressed out by this than our feathered friends do. Hang in there, not many more days to go!


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## olive juice (Mar 30, 2009)

Just a little update...

Halley's all done with his medicine, and very happy about it.  He seems to feel much better. He's not struggling to poop and he's doing it regularly again, the droppings look normal, he's singing all the time again and is much less cranky. I still have to take a stool sample to the vet's, and hopefully the gram stain will come back all clear.

Thanks for everyone's help. It's been a very stressful two weeks for Halley and I, we're glad it's over. I made sure Halley was watching when I threw out the medicine bottle and the syringes, heh.


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## Lola's_mommy (Nov 30, 2008)

Yay!!! You're done - it is such a relief to throw away the meds! It is very hard on you and your tiel, but it is worth the effort to keep them healthy. Hopefully you won't have to go through this again, but at least you know you can do it if you have to again.


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## sweetrsue (Jul 8, 2008)

Now's the time to get going with the ornabac! so many birds go downhill after a round of antibiotics. just be on the safe side and help your little friend rebuild the beneficial bacteria he so needs right now


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## olive juice (Mar 30, 2009)

Yep, I put Ornabac on his veggies the day after his medicine was up.  I put it on his evening dish of veggies, cuz that's when he's the hungriest and has the highest chance of eating the most.

He's still doing well. I haven't had a chance to take a dropping sample to the vet, I'll try to get my roommate to do it tomorrow while I'm at work.


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## xxxSpikexxx (Jul 30, 2007)

Glad to hear that Halley got through his meds ok


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## sweetrsue (Jul 8, 2008)

So glad Halley is doing better!


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## olive juice (Mar 30, 2009)

Thank you both 

I took a fecal sample to the vet's but the vet I saw last time wasn't there (neglected to tell me she'd be on vacation all this week) and neither was their only other avian vet. <_< So I'm going to bring another one on Tuesday or Thursday next week.


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