# Estel



## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

I'm going to make this thread to ask all my questions. Sorry I made 2 other threads about her already!

Anyway, what is the best way to get caked formula off of her feathers? I didn't notice formula that got stuck on the underside of her feathers next to her beak and around her crop, and it's dried and hard to remove. I wrapped two cotton buds in a soft tissue and wet the tip, and tried to rub/massage it off with some success, but it would take a very long time and she doesn't like having her feathers pulled in the process (these feathers are still pinfeathers btw). It was also right after she ate and she was getting sleepy, so I decided to try again later after she had time to sleep and digest.


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

Also, after she eats she keeps begging for more, and has taken to doing the feeding response on her left foot. As adorable as that is (insofar as it reminds me of a baby sucking their thumb), I'm worried she might hurt herself. I'm not sure if she would do it if it hurt her, though. Would she stop if it hurt her, or would she keep doing it and accidentally injure her toe?


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## Phoenix2010 (Sep 15, 2014)

I also had babies with food lumps in their feathers around their beaks. I get them very wet then squash the lumps until they soften then gently roll the feathers between my fingers to loosen the food. A soft toothbrush will then remove the bits. If the food is in large lumps this can take several sessions. After the feathers are clean I wash the babies well after each feed and brush them with the toothbrush. They soon get used to it.
I don't know about her foot sucking lol. Maybe give her some millet or something to distract her after feeds.


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

Thanks. I've been sitting with her on top of me after every feeding and cleaning her off slowly with a cotton bud and water. It's taken a few feedings but most of the caked formula has come off. She's learned to enjoy it as well! It also distracts her from trying to eat her foot, lol.

Another question I have is about air getting into her crop. I'm spoonfeeding, because I'm nervous about her aspirating, having never been taught how to do it with a syringe. But she seems to be getting air into her crop, especially since I've been making her formula a little thicker. It takes longer for it to roll off the spoon into her mouth. 

How bad is air in the crop? Is it something to be very concerned about? She still eats all her food (I feed 5 mL 6 times a day at the moment in order to give her all the meds the vet prescribed every day). 

After googling a bit I found this . I guess this would be safe on cockatiels too? Has anyone done it?


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## shaenne (Apr 19, 2014)

I did the squeezing thing with Zoe when she was being spoon fed. It's really easy, you just have to take it slow and not squeeze to hard at the start. Just apply as much pressure as needed to push the air bubbles up 

Are you using a bent spoon? And do you hold the head steady as you feed? I found that holding the baby's head firmly (but not too hard lol) really helped get more actual food into her crop rather than air, and it was a lot less messy, too. I held her so that my thumb and finger held her head steady, and the rest of her body was kind of cupped in my hand which helped prevent wings from going in all directions and making a mess of everything 

Try to get as much of the air out as possible. I'm not sure what kind of long-term problems it can cause (if any) but any air in the crop makes less room for food which isn't good for the baby's development.

As for getting dry formula off, I had that problem with Zoe also and by the time I noticed it there was more on there than I could get off with my finger tips, and she had a little bit on her chest as well, so I gave her a warm bath. I filled a container with enough warm water to come half way up her body and just let her sit in it for a few minutes (she looooved the warm water), then i'd soak a wash cloth with the warm water and held it against her cheeks for as long as she'd let me. By the time she'd had enough, the caked-on formula was moist and softened enough to comb off with a soft toothbrush.

You just have to be careful not to let them dunk their head/face into the water and/or swallow any. Zoe was a pretty chill baby though and didn't fuss much so bathing her was pretty relaxing for the both of us


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

I tried to do it just now but didn't manage to get the air out. I decided to skip her last feeding tonight (it's nighttime where I am) because she seemed a little subdued earlier and now. Her crop feels like it's just full of air to me, but just in case I'll wait until morning to see what it's like. I hope she's okay!

I'm actually using the handle of one of these spoons 







. 
A breeder showed me how to do it with those. I tried a bent spoon too, but it wasn't as easy as this one so I stuck to this. The way it's shaped could be making it hard for a thicker formula to roll off, though, so I've been thinking of trying a proper bent spoon again.

I try to hold her head but she is very good at getting out of my grip haha. Maybe I'm being too gentle.

Thanks for the tip about the bath. I might try that if I need to.


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

She was all good in the morning and has eaten well today. I switched to a proper bent spoon and found it works better for a thicker formula. 

I've been very cautious about hygiene with her. When can I start being less so? Like, not with regards to feeding utensils and stuff, but with letting her explore the environment outside of her box? And also with disinfecting my hands every time I handle her (I'm getting blisters haha). She's 3 weeks and 2 days now. I've seen a video of cockatiel babies that were not yet 4 weeks old being allowed to walk around on carpeted floors and so on.


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## shaenne (Apr 19, 2014)

As zoe got bigger and more adventurous I just extended her area. I had her in a large box and used barriers to confine her to an area within it, and as she got bigger I moved the barriers out further and further until she had the whole box to explore before being moved to a cage. I don't really let any of my birds roam the carpet in case their little claws get stuck and they injure themselves. I only really let Zoe roam the hard floors when she was little so I could take photos without stressing about her falling off an edge lol.

In a week or two you can try offering your baby some millet to experiment with. You will know when she is ready for that because she will start picking at things in her box. Zoe started picking at and licking her bedding one day so I offered her a small millet spray and she had an absolute field day with it


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

Most of my floor is hard floor, so that's all good. Did you disinfect the floor before letting her on it? I've become so germ conscious because of the little dinosaur, haha. 

I noticed her start to pick at things for the first time just now! I'm going to put some millet in there just for her to look at and nibble on if she's curious. She's also doing adorable things like preening and trying to climb up the side of her box when I'm preparing her food, and learning how to perch on my hand and flap her wings. It's so fun to watch them grow n_n

Edit: I took a video earlier of her being spoilt rotten link


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

We accidentally burnt some chicken and the oil made some smoke. There's a burnt smell in the house. I keep Estel in a room with the door closed, and the air conditioner is on fan mode in there so it's ventilated. Her box is also covered with a cloth except for a corner. I don't think there's any smoke left in the house, but the smell is still there. Do you think she'll be okay? None of the cooking things were non-stick; I'm not sure how bad smoke just from hot oil is. I don't dare to open the door and check on her in case lingering smoke gets in.


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

Another question I have is about temperature. I live in a tropical country, so without any heating whatsoever, inside her box it's around 88 degrees, sometimes up to 89.6 in the middle of the day. Is it necessary to make it cooler for her as she grows her feathers out? I see things online saying certain temperatures at different ages are best for optimal growth, so I'm wondering. For her age, I think the recommended temperature was 81-85. She doesn't seem uncomfortable; except for when she's sleeping, she keeps her wings fully over her body.


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

Today is the last day of her medicine, and now I'm wondering how or if I should change the schedule her feedings and feeding amounts. 

From feeding charts and so on, it's suggested that for her age (28 days today) she should be eating 11-15 mL 3 times a day. 

Is this assuming that the baby weighs at least 110 grams already? Because she only weighs 60 grams right now. I'm not too worried about that as my other cockatiel only weighed 75 grams at 20 weeks; I'm guessing they're just genetically smaller than a lot of the babies in online guides. Should I just stick to the 'feed 10-12% of bodyweight' rule? I've noticed that if she doesn't have at least 28-30 mL in a day, she doesn't gain weight overnight, but just stays the same as the day before. So in order to meet that minimum, as well as feed only 10-12% of bodyweight, I'd have to continue feeding 6-7 mL 4-5 times a day, as I have been doing.

But for the past few days she's only been gaining 1-2 grams overnight. Should I then start feeding her more?


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## shaenne (Apr 19, 2014)

I eventually got frustrated with trying to get Zoe to put weight on with every feeding method people suggested, so in the end I just started stuffing her full and feeding every 4 hours with an 8 hour break overnight. At 3.5 weeks old she was only 31 grams and I was getting desperate. Doing that REALLY helped her put on weight. By 4 weeks she was at 51 grams and by 5 weeks she was JUST shy of 80 grams.

You just have to be careful not to feed TOO much and overstretch the crop but Zoe would refuse food before she got to that point which made it easier for me.

Then I just started setting weekly weight goals and I would drop her feedings back every time she reached them. I basically let her decide how much she wanted to eat, and she would start eating more per feeding as I dropped her feeds back which kept her gaining weight.


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

Thanks for the advice! I think I could push her to 8 mL; she looks very full and round after just 7 mL, so I don't know if I want to go beyond that too soon. I thought about it just now and figured I'll try making her formula a little bit thicker for the next few days and see how that works out. The weekly weight goals sounds like a good idea.

Also, I think the reason why her weight gain overnight slowed down might be because the past few days due to timing issues, I wasn't able give her a late night feeding. I just fed her at 11 PM, so tmr morning we'll see if that was the reason.


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## shaenne (Apr 19, 2014)

If you're not already, I strongly suggest using coconut water to mix her formula. It is excellent for hydration (better than regular water) and you can thicken the formula a bit without losing the valuable hydration. When I pulled Zoe for hand feeding she was very red and dry from dehydration and the coconut water fixed her up in a day or two, and I continued using it throughout the hand feeding days


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

I'll pick up some coconut water next time I'm at the store. I didn't make her formula much thicker yet because I wanted to see how giving her 8 mL would turn out. She's doing very well now! She gained 7 grams from yesterday to today. I predict she'll be more than 70 grams tomorrow.


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## shaenne (Apr 19, 2014)

That's great! It's such a great feeling when you can see some good weight gain haha, the feeling of reassurance is amazing.


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

Indeed  She also had her first flight! A very short and low one, but nevertheless. She likes to come to us as well; if we put her down somewhere she'll crawl up or down or wherever she needs to to get to us <3

I took a few pics of her the first time we put her in the sun. She kept stretching her wings out to catch the light.


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

She threw up her food from her second to last feeding  She was picking at some broccoli and millet earlier and I think she managed to swallow some, so maybe that might have caused it? Her poop looks normal, and her crop feels normal, and has always emptied before I fed her again. The red veins on her crop seem to be more visible, but they are still fine/thin, not thick and bulging. She had some mucus in one of her nares too, and when she sneezes she sounds like her nose is blocked. Maybe when she threw up some went up into her nares? 

I decided to feed her the final feeding because she was still active and flapping her wings and screaming loudly. I made it more liquidy in case she was dehydrated after losing her food. If the vet is open tomorrow (it's a public holiday here tmr) I'll take her. I hope she's okay!


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

She's okay, the vet figures it was the new food. He says the mucus means she might have aspirated, but her lungs sound ok. Anyway she flew twice again today! She ascended about 4 feet off the ground and went around 3 feet horizontally, and landed on my hand both times. So adorable <3


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

I'm wondering whether it's okay to move her to a cage around now during the day. She's 5 weeks 3 days now. I've seen it recommended that handfed babies be moved to cages around 6-7 weeks, but she seems a bit cramped in her box, and I can't find a bigger one in the house. She's nibbling on solid foods but I don't think she's eating a lot of them yet. But she's more active now and always is eager to come out and see us. Would it be okay to move her to a cage?


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## shaenne (Apr 19, 2014)

Oops I haven't been around much. Omg she is gorgeous! Such a pretty baby! And I am so glad she is okay. I know how scary it is when you think there is something wrong! Your brain automatically jumps to the worst possible outcome lol.

As for the cage, I think now would be a great time to move her to a cage. Zoe got her first big girl cage when she was (ironically) 5 weeks and 3 days old. I just bought a small budgie cage for her to begin with, it was like $10 or something. It was pretty awesome watching her figure everything out! I kept a small plate (like a tea plate) of food on the floor of the cage for easy access. 

Also cover the bottom of the cage with paper or something (I used butchers paper which I got for free by asking my newsagent for newspaper end rolls) and put some random foods on the floor for her to forage. I usually gave Zoe broccoli, cauliflower, corn and carrot. It spoils pretty quickly so I cut up a bunch of it and mixed it together and stored it in the fridge in zip-loc bag so I could give her fresh stuff regularly and easily!

Use a couple of layers of paper to prevent little claws and beak from puncturing it. Zoe took to shredding the paper for fun pretty quickly so using a triple layer was definitely a good move on my part lol.

Place the perches as low as you can for her to experiment with. It didn't take Zoe long before she figured out how to get up to her perches. Watching her learn to balance herself on them was hilarious to watch lol.


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

Yes she gets more adorable every day haha <3 But unfortunately I'm still worrying that something is wrong  Her droppings have been weird. Sometimes they look normal, but sometimes the urine is cloudy or faintly yellow, and sometimes there's very little feces in it. Everything else about her behaviour seems normal though. I called the vet and he told me to put her back on the antibiotics for a few days and bring her in if that doesn't help. Hopefully it does!

Thanks for the advice about the cage  I put her in for a little while to explore, but returned her to the box because she became anxious and calmed down once she was back in the box. I'll let her spend more time in it later.


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

Well, I think she's actually alright. The reason why her droppings seemed inconsistent, in hindsight, was because I was comparing droppings made on different materials (paper towels vs wax paper). The cloudiness is still there sometimes, but I notice that whenever her droppings fall from her height, the urine is clear (when it lands separate from the feces and urates), which suggest that it might be her feces or the urates mixing with it. Everything else about her behaviour is completely normal.

She spends about half the day outside of the box now. I still let her sleep in it. How much company should I give her? I spend at least 6 hours a day with her already. When I leave her alone she cries pitifully if she knows I'm around somewhere, but I don't want to teach her that crying gives her attention. Or is it too early to be 'training' her like that, and does she need more company when she's a baby?

I've been giving her fresh food twice a day and dry food is always available. Is this enough fresh food? Also, when should I expect her to start drinking water? There's a water bottle hanging in the cage all the time, but except for the first curious poke with her beak, I haven't seen her at it.


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

In other news, here are some pics of her growth, compared to her wooden duck friend (wrapped in paper towels) which she used to rest her head on when she was too small to keep it up. I can't believe she used to be so small


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## ejoypousson (Apr 18, 2015)

I have a question about weaning. She's almost 7 weeks 5 days now, and still is quite dependent on formula, but is eating fresh food and seeds (she doesn't like pellets even though I've offered them from the beginning and crushed them into small pieces). I still can't tell how much she is eating, however. I know she gets a little bit, and definitely gets the juices of the veggies. Do cockatiels eat the fibrous parts of leafy vegetables, or like of asparagus or broccoli? Because she chews on them, but I notice the fibrous parts either fall or remain stuck to her beak, and I don't know if she eats any.

I still have about 2-4 weeks left before she will probably be completely weaned, but I'm wondering how much solid food I should expect to see her eat at this age. Is this sort of nibbling thing normal at this age (or at every age) or should it look like she's eating more? 

Even though she's eating less formula now, she's still maintaining her weight and every couple days she gains a gram. Should I more quickly reduce the amount of formula I give her? (I still give her a little whenever she begs).

Edit: I forgot to mention, she seems to be very hungry, even though she's not losing weight. Whenever her crop empties (usually in 3 hours), she makes the food-crying noise. I'm not sure if she's crying for company sometimes or for food. I don't want to deny her formula if she's actually hungry.... Earlier this week she was rejecting morning feedings after 3-4 mL, which I took as a sign of weaning, and had started to reject the last few mL of her midday feeding; but for the last couple days she's been asking for more again in the morning and seems desperately hungry at the midday feeding and whenever I give her in-between snacks. Maybe it's just me getting used to seeing her eat solid food, but it also seems like she's a little less interested in the solid food as well than she was a few days ago. Is it normal for them to fluctuate in how demanding they are for formula?


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