# Yesterday evening I walked in on...



## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

... Honey and Henry attempting to mate! I'm still in shock, I honestly thought Honey would keep refusing his efforts! Guess not. Initially I backed out of the room to give them a little privacy, but I couldn't help going back in for another peep, and noticed Henry had no idea where to put his 'you know what'. He was perched on her back while she was arched with wings out, crest down and softly cooing. It's a noise I'd never heard before so it was interesting to finally hear what the hen mating cry sounds like. He was singing to her and kind of kissing her beak, it was so romantic (and exciting!). Eventually though, Honey got frustrated and kicked him off, and they both lost balance and fell to the cage floor (they were on the second-highest perch). They then proceeded to waddle about for around 10 minutes, picking at things as if searching for suitable nesting materials, or that's what it looked like to me anyway. After that I covered them for the night (it was late and past their bedtime), and continued to marvel over what had just happened!

This morning I walked in on them doing it again, except Henry _almost_ had it right. So should I expect them to keep trying again and again until Honey eventually lays eggs? I'm at a loss of what to do. I _do_ want babies from them in the future, but they're both under a year old so it's too soon for that, and besides, I'm not 100% sure I'm ready for younglings just yet. I know it might not be serious and they may not be planning on babies at the moment, just "exploring" things in that area as typical adolescent birdies do, but I'm still a little worried if it _does_ end up going that way, and wondering what I can do to prevent it.

They get long nights, I cover them at approx. 7 PM and uncover them at 8:30 - 9 AM.

Also, just curious about what kind of babies H & H are likely to have. Honey is a normal lutino and Henry a normal whiteface, and he has ghost pearling on his back. I know nothing about their parentage, I wish I did!


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

It seems like Henry like keep trying to mate until he gets it right!

If they do breed all femails will be whiteface and all males will be Lutino but since Henry is split to pearl I don't know yet because I'm not home but I will look it up

The simplest genetic calculator is this one on the Cockatiel Color Palette website: http://www.kirstenmunson.com/cockatiels/blue.html


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

Yup, he's totally in love with her!

So there's no chance of there being a whiteface lutino?


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## bobobubu (Dec 12, 2011)

Well, if Henry's got it right in two days he is much more clever than my bunch!
Frank keeps trying with Trilly and what he does is stand on her back, walking here and there until he loses his balance and falls. If anyone else tries, Frank will peck at them so that they fall over too. Really hopeless.
My Angelina is same age as your Honey; I thought that being so young she wouldn't want to mate yet... but she is so precocious  So I don't know what to do either.


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

To get a female whiteface lutino, she has to get the whiteface gene from both parents and the lutino gene from dad.

To get a male whiteface lutino, he has to get the whiteface gene from both parents and the lutino gene from both parents.

So both parents have to have the whiteface gene (either visual or split) and dad has to have the lutino gene (either visual or split). To get WFL males, you need all of those things plus the mother must be visual lutino.


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## CaliTiels (Oct 18, 2012)

CharVicki said:


> He was singing to her and kind of kissing her beak, it was so romantic


Well, as romantic as the situation gets, haha! Wow! Seems like yesterday when you got little baby Honey and now, woah! She's growing up so fast


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

Yeah, Honey's growing up, pity I don't know her exact age, maybe she's older than I thought.

Ok, thanks Baruch, it sounds kind of tricky, I'm doubtful there could be a WFL but then I don't know all the details of their history so it could be possible.

Henry hasn't got it right yet lol but he's only tried twice. We'll see what happens. I'll keep you posted.


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

> Seems like yesterday when you got little baby Honey and now, woah! She's growing up so fast


She also said that honey got frustrated when Henry didn't do it right LOL:lol:


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> If they do breed all femails will be whiteface and all males will be Lutino


Um, no, that's not right. If the parents have no hidden splits all chicks will be grey. From http://www.kirstenmunson.com/cockatiels/blue.html :

Mother:Lutino
Father:Whiteface

male offspring:
100% Grey Split To Whiteface {X2: Lutino}

female offspring:
100% Grey Split To Whiteface

Honey will give the lutino gene to all her sons, but they won't be visual unless they also get the lutino gene from dad. If he's split you'll be able to get lutino chicks of both sexes. Henry will give the whiteface gene to all his children but they won't be visual unless they also get the whiteface gene from mom. If both parents have the lutino gene and the whiteface gene you'll be able to get whiteface lutino chicks of both sexes. From the same genetic calculator as above:


Mother:Lutino Split To Whiteface
Father:Whiteface Split To {X1: Lutino}

male offspring:
25% Whiteface Lutino
25% Whiteface Split To {X2: Lutino}
25% Lutino Split To Whiteface
25% Grey Split To Whiteface {X2: Lutino}

female offspring:
25% Whiteface Lutino
25% Whiteface
25% Lutino Split To Whiteface
25% Grey Split To Whiteface


If he's split pearl you'll be able to get pearl daughters. I'm assuming that Honey is NOT lutino pearl. 

Long nights are an effective hormone control method with most tiels, but it has to be dark enough to seem like night for at least 12 hours straight. You're keeping them covered for a long enough time, but is the cover thick enough to exclude any light that's in the room? If it's only making it sort of dim inside it can actually make the situation worse, because a dimly lit enclosed space feels a lot like the inside of a nest cavity.


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

Awesome, thanks for that info. I'm unaware of any splits (apart from Henry's split pearl) so I guess I'll have to wait to find out! Honey is definitely not lutino pearl.

Yes, I always check to make sure it's dark enough under there. I have a huge warm blanket for them and various towels as well. I think it's working; they only tried mating once this morning and the rest of the day has gone smoothly without any attempt, they've been calm and relaxed, although Henry has been singing at the top of his lungs, but not all the time like he previously has been.


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## Mezza (Feb 19, 2013)

HAHAHAHA! You guys are talking what babies they will have, yet I am still laughing at the original 'Henry had no idea where to put his 'you know what''. :rofl:


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## catalinadee (Jan 1, 2011)

It is somewhat cute when they're doing it together but when a yellow streaked lory (a pretty big fella at that) gets a good hold of you and has his way with your hands on a daily basis it's less funny/cute! He bites to hang on too but I can't exactly shove him away. I let him get over it and walk off when he's done, no cuddling for him :rofl:

As for breeding them, well, I'd personally wait a bit longer  they're under a year old, goodness knows what it could do to their health and the chicks!


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

*Mezza* Haha! I'm still grinning from watching him fumble about and Honey telling him to either get on with it or scram :rofl:. I actually took some pictures but I haven't posted any because I wasn't sure if mating photos were banned on the forum (or if people would get offended at the sight!).

*catalinadee* Oh my goodness, Loris are the worst. I've only met one tame Lori before and he sure liked to do the same with my hands. 

Yeah, I'm wanting to wait a bit longer, but they don't seem to share the same ideas! Haha. Seriously though, I ain't gonna let them make babies just yet.


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

This morning they tried mating again, and to my surprise, HONEY was the one initiating it! She flattened out her back and invited Henry to climb on. I suspected they wouldn't go through with it seeing as the other two times I hadn't been in the room, but they let me watch this time. I think they might have got it right.


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

Oh wow! Henry is a fast leaner:lol:
So they where rubbing their vents? I think they where doing it right! If you don't want chicks yet you got to seperate them and do hormonal reduction which I believe you are already doing!

And it's great that your letting Henry learn how to mate so hat when you want them to breed in the future Henry will be expierenced


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If the hormone reduction works you won't have to separate them. Separating a bonded pair is hard on everyone involved so I hope the hormone control works for you!


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

Yes they were rubbing their vents together. So far they've mated once every day (could be more, but I've been home most of the time) for the last three days. I can't separate them, I don't have the space for it nor enough cages of a decent size, and I might be taking in the homeless 'tiel so I can't really afford to separate them, I need the house to be as stress-free as possible if the new 'tiel does end up coming home with me, and my mum is studying in the living room so I can't put any of my birds out there.

I'd say the hormonal reduction is working, they're not super nesty and Henry doesn't court her all the time so it's looking good.  Honey loves her personal space most of the day anyway, lol.


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

That's great!
As long as the hormonal reductions are working there won't be a need to separate them


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

You could also get female Pearls split WF since Henry carries the Pearl gene.


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## dearblythe (Nov 15, 2012)

this sounds so cute, but worrisome for me - i fear this is what sadie and archie will eventually do. 

sadie is verrrrrry clucky at the moment, RUBBING AGAINST EVERYTHING! (if i move it, she moves on to the next toy!) and archie follows her around like a lost puppy, singing to her... but sadie doesn't want him too close yet. what are the chances? 

keep us updated on honey and henry's sexcapades hahaha.


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

*dearblythe*, that does sound a lot like my pair, except I've never seen them masturbate  

Yesterday they tried mating twice but both times Henry lost his balance and it never happened (phew). Honey has high standards -- one false move from Henry and she practically kicks him off. I do think they did it correctly about twice in all their attempts, does that mean Honey could lay eggs soon and they could be fertile? I've done a bit of research and apparently the eggs can come 10 days after the mating? I don't know what I'd do if she starts laying eggs


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Her hormones probably aren't at the egg-laying level yet. Usually you will see birds going at it several times a day for several days before the eggs start to come, and apparently these two have only mated successfully twice. Of course there are some hens who will lay eggs without even having a male in the house so there are no guarantees, but it doesn't sound like Honey is all that receptive. It might take males a while to figure out how to mate, but once they get it right they usually don't forget. It sounds like the unsuccessful mating is not his fault, it's because she's not cooperating enough.


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

That sounds pretty spot on. Good, perhaps I can relax a bit.


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## dearblythe (Nov 15, 2012)

CharVicki said:


> *dearblythe*,* that does sound a lot like my pair, except I've never seen them masturbate  *
> 
> Yesterday they tried mating twice but both times Henry lost his balance and it never happened (phew). Honey has high standards -- one false move from Henry and she practically kicks him off. I do think they did it correctly about twice in all their attempts, does that mean Honey could lay eggs soon and they could be fertile? I've done a bit of research and apparently the eggs can come 10 days after the mating? I don't know what I'd do if she starts laying eggs


it's terrible! last night, when they were covered up to go to sleep, i heard her cooing and quickly uncovered them to see what she was getting it on with, and sure enough, her new 'thing' is the swing.


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## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

XD I had to.


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## ollieandme (Mar 25, 2013)

H & H sound hilarious! I hope hormone treatment works  you're so lucky to get a bonded pair though - they're very cute to watch.
Ollie's obsessed with my Dad and when she's on his shoulder she'l flatten her back, coo, and waddle around so i'm sure she wants to mate. She just hasn't figured out that Bjorn, her irritating singing pest, is the bird and my dad's not  Bjorn's only 8 months old, so is that too young for him to be expected to initiate things??

By the way, is henry not even one? He has a perfect whiteface for a juvenile tiel!


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

HAHA that lovebird gif :rofl:

Hormone treatment is working! They're not mating very much now (knock on wood). That's so funny about Ollie and your dad! Sounds about right heheh. How old is Ollie?

I'm not sure about Henry's exact age but I know he's somewhere under one year old. His white face is kind of scruffy so I'm guessing he's not long had his first moult, and when I got him he had pin feathers around his crest. The fact that he first had no idea how to mate properly has me convinced also lol.


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## ollieandme (Mar 25, 2013)

Henry's a cutie! Ollie is almost 2 1/2 - geting on


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

However, he does have a line of very bright white pearls along the back of each of his wings that has me thinking, if he is a visual pearl, he's been through a few molts. If he's only split pearl though, he could have just molted once. Hard to tell!

Bah, Ollie's young! Still a spring chicken


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Bjorn's only 8 months old, so is that too young for him to be expected to initiate things??


No it is not. I've had 5 month old babies "doing it", and I've heard of them doing it as young as 3 months. If Ollie was less annoyed by his courtship moves you might be playing hormone police right now.


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## ollieandme (Mar 25, 2013)

Haha maybe i should be thankful to Ollie  bjorn's a babe at heart. He's more interested in strokes and singing than boring things like mating


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

tielfan said:


> If Ollie was less annoyed by his courtship moves you might be playing hormone police right now.


I think Carolyn is absolutely right! 

By the way, I haven't seen H & H mate in days! The long nights are working a charm. Poor grumpy Honey now has a chance to moult and recover in peace (sometimes Henry's claws on her back/wings would hurt her new feathers). She's lost a LOT of tail feathers and they seem to be growing back all at once so she's very uncomfortable. Her wings are getting longer and she has been jumping from perch to perch which I haven't seen her do in a LONG TIME! :thumbu:


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

I came home today to find this. Excuse the messy cage, I was out for the night and half the day.





They don't normally shred paper, they've only been starting to do it since they've been mating and hormonal, and this is by far the boldest of their shredding escapades. It looks to me like they want to make a nest, would you agree? Eager for you guy's feedback on this, I don't know what to make of it other than that they were possibly feeling VERY nesty.


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

I know some birds do it for the fun of it, but some birds do this also when they want to breed/nest - since they haven't ripped up newspaper previously (well, usually), then it could be this. The best thing to do would be to put the newspaper under the grate, on the tray, because the newspaper could be what is encouraging them. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

I don't think they were doing it for the fun of it, it seems way too suspicious. Sometimes Henry squats with his tail pointing straight up against one of the walls like he's guarding something (not masturbating). Actually, Henry's doing _both_ right this minute -- ripping paper with his bum in the air backed against a corner. First time I've witnessed this.

Ok, I'll move the newspaper. I usually have both (a layer in the tray and a layer on top of the grate) but I'll change it tomorrow.

I'm really wondering though, if I should just let them go ahead with it, if I should put a nestbox in. They seem really ready as well as seeming to know what they're doing.

Edit: Honey's droppings are noticeably larger, and she's been a LOT more vocal.


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

Large watery poops are a sighn of being ready to lay
Approximately how many times have they mated yet?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Henry is sitting on imaginary eggs. I'd say you have a lot of nesting behavior going on.


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

> Henry is sitting on imaginary eggs. I'd say you have a lot of nesting behavior going on.


That sounds true
Do you think that charvicki should put in a nest box?


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

Baruch -- they mate once a day as far as I'm aware. It could be more, though, since I'm not around to watch them every second. They seem to get up to no good while I'm away at weekends. I don't think they're mating enough for Honey to be fertilized, but she's acting like she _wants_ to be, all clucky and impatient. They just mated five minutes ago and Henry was around the wrong way. D'oh!

My mum keeps saying "I think she's pregnant" but I've given up correcting her :rofl:


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

So the paper is under the grate in the tray, but it hasn't stopped their nesty behaviour. As I type they are walking in circles on the bottom of the cage and trying to pull the newspaper up through the bars. Honey is peep peep peeping all the time. I think she really wants to lay an egg.

What should I do?

Edit: Henry just mounted her but is rubbing his vent on the wrong place.


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

They sound very hormonal!
I'm not sure if you should just put in a nest box or not
Anyone more experienced have a clue?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

To be honest, I would keep trying to prevent them. Extend the long nights if you have to. Add another hour to it. If worse comes to worse, you'll need to separate them into separate cages. They are too young to be having any babies yet. While they're physically mature, they are not mentally ready yet (think of it as a 14yr old girl getting pregnant. While she CAN get pregnant, she SHOULDN'T.)


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

If honey does lay eggs, should we shake/boil them?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Yes...because of how young they are, she may not sit properly or they wont feed them properly and you could loose all the babies and trust me that's more heartbreaking then the eggs not hatching at all. I'd boil them just to be sure they don't develop at all.


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

That's true!
Charmian, how old is honey?


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

Okay. I'll wait until next year like I had initially decided. I was just torn because they seemed so ready (apart from the mating not always going well) but I know it's right to wait. They seem a bit calmer today.

Hmm, let's see. I got her in May this year, so that's around 4 months ago. I was told she was 4 - 5 months old then so in total Honey is (approximately) 8 1/2 - 9 months old. I do think she was older than that when I got her, though, because despite my efforts she has not tamed down much at all. There was a period there when she would hop on my finger but it didn't last long.

Henry, in my opinion, is a lot older. I brought him home in early July and he had every one of his adult feathers so I assume he's been through _at least_ two molts. His remaining pearls are almost ghost pearls now.


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