# breeding problems



## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

Hi,
i have two cockatiels which i brought from a pet shop as a 'proven pair' i got them in april and left them to settle in until may then i introduced the nest box since then they have been in the box a lot (the male practicly lives in there) and i have caught them mating several times but they have never produced any eggs any advice or ideas? 

also if they do eventually breed any idea what colours the chicks will be?
the male is normal grey and the female is lutino lacewing.

Many thanks


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

there could be many reasons why they are not producing any eggs
how old are they?
do they have a clean bill of health?
I know they are a proven pair but are they bonded?
How's there diet?
sorry I don't know much about mutations I am sure someone will come along who can help with that


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

laurago said:


> there could be many reasons why they are not producing any eggs
> how old are they?
> do they have a clean bill of health?
> I know they are a proven pair but are they bonded?
> ...


The pet shop said they are 3-4 years old,
they seem quite close so i would say they are bonded
they both are healthy birds
there diet is parakeet mix, fresh fruit and veg, i have gave them egg food but i dont think they eat it, they also have millet, cuttlefish, iodine block, and grit.
do they need anything else?


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

oh ok I saw petshop and was thinking maybe there to young yet  but thats not the case hmmm it sounds like your doing everything right I am not sure what the problem would be.


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

I would take out the nest box, and reintroduce it in a month or two. Sometimes this can give them a chance to get in the mood for breeding, it might help.

From that pairing i think you will get normal greys, and the males will be split to lutino.


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

Bea has a good point  about removing the nest box and then reintroducing it, I have read Some ways you can stimulate your Cockatiels to breed are: Frequent baths and mistings, Fresh greens and soft food; Breeding diet; Branches, Wood toys; and a nest box which I am sure you already knew  I also read that sometimes seperating them for a few days works.


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

Ok thanks for that, i will try all of those things and keep you posted


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

Good luck!


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

Hi all,
i reintroduced their nest box monday, the male was in there within 10 minutes of me hanging it up, i have caught them mating on tuesday and yesterday so they seem really keen, the females droppings have gone huge and really smelly, they havent laid yet though it should be 7-10 days after they mate i think? i have also moved them to a breeding cage that my grandad made its 2ft high x 4ft wide x 2 ft deep its all boxed in with a mesh roof and front they seem to love it so im keeping everything crossed lol wish me luck


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## Rosie (Aug 27, 2007)

Awww, how exciting!!! Good luck and remember to keep us all posted!


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

Sounds like everything is going great this time around! Keep us posted on their progress.


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

I wish you the best of luck, hope everything goes smooth  keep us updated.


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

update; they are both spending all the time in the box now, the females droppings are still big and smelly, and her vent area looks very big and swollen i am 99% sure she will lay a egg very soon possibly tonight im so exited i could scream lol


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

How exciting!!!


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

keep the updates coming  good luck, I hope you get some eggies soon


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

Ive just checked the nest box and they have 1 egg


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

thats great news!!! you must be so excited


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

Yes very,  im keeping my fingers crossed everything goes smoothly,
any ideas on colours? the male is normal grey and the female is lutino split for lacewing


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

That's really exciting!! Congrats on the egg.  I think you'll get all normal greys unless the male is split to some things (has hidden genes). Then you could get any number of suprises.


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

I hope he is then, i was hoping to get pied colours, but as long as there healthy im not to fussed


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

are you going to keep the babies or sell them 



sarahjayne87 said:


> Yes very,  im keeping my fingers crossed everything goes smoothly,
> any ideas on colours? the male is normal grey and the female is lutino split for lacewing


check out this site it lets you put in what mutations the parents are and gives you an idea of what to expect http://www.kirstenmunson.com/cockatiels/blue.html


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

I am thinking of hand rearing them, im not decided yet, i would love to keep them all  but i know i havent got the room  i will keep one though as if they hatch and suvive this will be my first ever lot of chicks ive done from start to finish, i hand reared millie, he came with a breeding pair and the man brought there nest box with them and he didnt tell me they had a chick, a few hours passed and i was putting there nest box away for the following year and luckily i heard him sqeeking otherwise he would have died in there  anyway i gave him back to his parents but they neglected him so i had to hand rear him and im so glad i did as he is a wonderful bird so trusting


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

wow I can't believe he didn't tell you there was a chick in there  thats great you found millie in time


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## Rosie (Aug 27, 2007)

Aww how exciting!!! Baby tiels, how adorable!!


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

Eggie number 2 has arrived


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

Congrats on eggie #2


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## birdieness (Jul 28, 2007)

Ohh congrats =)


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

Congrats!! Before you know it you will have fluffy baby tiels.


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

I do hope so, i dont want to get to exited in case something goes wrong,
im a little worried about the pair actually as since monday when they laid the first egg they have hardly been out the box there is no poop in the cage and very few seeds missing from there bowl (normaly they empty the bowl between them within a day) there is a tiny amount of poop in the nest box at the one side is all this normal?


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## Rosie (Aug 27, 2007)

I havn't bred tiels so I cannot help you there sorry, lets just hope their being dedicated parents...!


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

sarahjayne87 said:


> I do hope so, i dont want to get to exited in case something goes wrong,
> im a little worried about the pair actually as since monday when they laid the first egg they have hardly been out the box there is no poop in the cage and very few seeds missing from there bowl (normaly they empty the bowl between them within a day) there is a tiny amount of poop in the nest box at the one side is all this normal?


 watch out for egg binding a lack of droppings could indicate that, usually when egg laying she will save it all up and come out of the box and poop usually a large one in the morning they usually don't poop in the box I would keep a close eye on them, egg binding may not be the problem but I would just watch out for it as it can be life threatening.


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

I am keeping a close eye on them, but its hard as there in the nest box, i dont want to keep opening the nest box every 5 miniutes as im scared they will reject their eggs if i intervein to much, when i checked on them not long ago they came out the box and the hen had a hissy fit at me, she spread her wings out to full span and was swaying side to side and she nearly knocked joey of the pearch lol, so i think as rosie said they are just being dedicated parents anyway her vent is very big but shes due to lay another egg tommorow so that may explain why, how many times a day should i check on her? also if she does get egg bound will she cry out to let me know theres something wrong?


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

as far as checking on them I am not sure of that I wouldn't disturb them to much as they can damage the eggs if startled signs to look for in egg binding are, sitting at the bottom of the cage rocking back and forth, sitting on tail feathers with legs spread apart, laboured breathing tail wagging or bobbing, abdominal distention, lack of droppings and ruffled feathers, I am sure she will be ok but its good to watch out for these things


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

I would check on them twice a day, once in the morning and once in the evening. Tap gently on the nest box lid to let them know your coming.


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

Thanks Bea,
I checked this evening and there is no more eggs to report, so i think shes only having the 2, i took my chance at candleing them while i was there as shes been sitting on them since she had the first 1 so its 5 days for the first egg and 3 days for the second egg, egg 1 looks fertile  it has a red spot in the middle and a faint red circle around it egg 2 is still orange i should know sunday if that one is fertile


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

That's awesome that you've got a fertile egg!!


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

Yay i thourght it was but i was a little unsure, they have suprized me tonight by laying another egg  i thourght they would stop at two but she has had another 1 so 3 altogether i wonder if she will have another 1 on sunday


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## Rosie (Aug 27, 2007)

Oh hooray!! 3 eggies now!!


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

The cockatiels are doing very well, they didnt have a egg on sunday so they just have the three, 8 days of incubation is done already, its gone quick, i wish the other 10-13 days would hurry up and go though, lol i cant wait to meet the little chicks  i candled the three eggs, there all fertile you can see a heart beat in them  there due to hatch -
egg 1 12th - 15th oct
egg 2 14th - 17th oct
egg 3 16th - 19th oct
i hope ive worked it out right, there still pooping in the nest box not in there cage its been 8 days now, when shall i clean the nest box out? now, when the eggs hatch, or do i just leave it there is a lot of sawdust in there and the birds are covering it up so im not sure if it matters


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

I can't wait for them to hatch!! How exciting!!

About the nest box, you say there's saw dust in there - do you actually mean saw dust or is it wood shavings? Saw dust is too fine and can be ingested/inhaled by the chickies, so if that's what's in there i would wait till all three eggs hatch then swap most of it out for wood shavings (you can buy them cheap at pet shops).  Leave a little in there so you keep the nesty smell for the parents. I wouldn't change anything before the chicks are hatched incase the parents abandon the eggs.


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

3 heart beats how exciting can't wait to see them


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

Bea said:


> I can't wait for them to hatch!! How exciting!!
> 
> About the nest box, you say there's saw dust in there - do you actually mean saw dust or is it wood shavings? Saw dust is too fine and can be ingested/inhaled by the chickies, so if that's what's in there i would wait till all three eggs hatch then swap most of it out for wood shavings (you can buy them cheap at pet shops).  Leave a little in there so you keep the nesty smell for the parents. I wouldn't change anything before the chicks are hatched incase the parents abandon the eggs.


Ok thanks, I think its wood shaving, its quite loose big pieces not the compact stuff, it doesnt say on the bag what it is though i buy it from the pet shop but it only has a price label on,


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

Wood shavings will look like curly thin bits and pieces of wood. Saw dust is powdery so it sounds like you have shavings.


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

The birds are doing well, still sitting tight  5-8 days to go till the first one is due to hatch, i candled them again yesterday there all looking very big and taking up all the egg (exept the air space) you can see them moving about, it looks like there kicking  so cute, ill keep you updated


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## Aly (Jul 30, 2007)

I'm sorry I missed this read - I keep forgeting to post to it. I'm glad to hear you have three eggies so far. hopefully that's all she'll lay so she doesn't put any strain on herself. Three would be a nice number! Let us know how things go and try to post some pics if you can!


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

Babyluv12 said:


> I'm sorry I missed this read - I keep forgeting to post to it. I'm glad to hear you have three eggies so far. hopefully that's all she'll lay so she doesn't put any strain on herself. Three would be a nice number! Let us know how things go and try to post some pics if you can!


Yes i think shes only having the 3 as she laid the last egg 28th sept, she has got through a large cuttlefish so i dont think shes lost any calcium, im not looking foward to the day they go to new forever homes  as i havent got enough room to keep any more i might keep one though to go with millie (my other hand reared one so she has a friend) , i cant post pics as i havent got a digital cam yet, but i am looking out for one


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

sarahjayne87 said:


> i havent got a digital cam yet, but i am looking out for one


Hopefully you get one soon, would love to see pic's of the babies when they come


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

Not long till the babies hatch - it's gone so quickly!


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

1-4 days left yay i cant wait  i candled them again today, egg 1 looks fine the air space has turned to the side a bit and is bigger, i think thats normal, i think egg 2 has dis (died in the shell) as there was no movement, no live veins there is just a black blob on the one side,  egg 3 also looks fine and the air space has moved to the side on that egg as well, can someone tell me if thats normal?


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## Aly (Jul 30, 2007)

sarahjayne87 said:


> 1-4 days left yay i cant wait  i candled them again today, egg 1 looks fine the air space has turned to the side a bit and is bigger, i think thats normal, i think egg 2 has dis (died in the shell) as there was no movement, no live veins there is just a black blob on the one side,  egg 3 also looks fine and the air space has moved to the side on that egg as well, can someone tell me if thats normal?



Hi-

Well, it's very soon to some possible babies! I hope you are able to take some pics soon! 

This info might help you-

For egg # 1 and 3
After approximately 17days incubation candling the egg will reveal the air-sac has tilted by 45 degrees, this period of brooding is called the “Internal Pip” which also can be detected without candling by a dent which will appear at the large or air sac end of the egg. This process of hatching with the chick now breaking through the membrane into the air cell where it will begin to take its first breath with a supply of fresh air created by the pip and if you listen closely you will hear their first chirps whilst chipping away in a circular motion around the shell. Usually without complications a chick will appear within 24-48 hrs of the pip any longer than this is a general warning for signs of difficulty and an assisted hatch might be required!





http://www.cockatielsociety.org.au/articles/eggs.htm


For egg #2
The embryo is located in the large end of the egg, where blood vessels radiate under the surface of the shell. 
The embryo appears as a dark spot that becomes larger as incubation progresses. Eventually only a dark mass and the air cell are seen. 
An infertile or unincubated egg brightly transmits light in comparison. 
Dead embryos will sometimes appear as a ring or smear of blood in the egg or a dark spot dried to the inside of the shell. 
The living embryo will appear as a dark spot in the large end of the egg surrounded by a faint outline of blood vessels. The blood vessels will appear firm and distinct. 
After embryo death, the embryo no longer grows and the blood system fades.


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

Babyluv12 said:


> Hi-
> 
> Well, it's very soon to some possible babies! I hope you are able to take some pics soon!
> 
> ...


Thank you, the last time i candled the second egg it had blood vessels nearly all around the inside of the egg, and i saw it move a few times (i only kept it out about 5 seconds so it didnt get cold) today when i candled it there was a very dark red (it actually looked black) spot on the one side and the other side was orange, it looked stuck there as when i gently turned the egg the spot stayed there and didnt move at all


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## Aly (Jul 30, 2007)

sarahjayne87 said:


> Thank you, the last time i candled the second egg it had blood vessels nearly all around the inside of the egg, and i saw it move a few times (i only kept it out about 5 seconds so it didnt get cold) today when i candled it there was a very dark red (it actually looked black) spot on the one side and the other side was orange, it looked stuck there as when i gently turned the egg the spot stayed there and didnt move at all



Did it have a blood ring around it? or was it more like this?
either way, we'll find out soon enough.


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

It does look a bit like the picture, i didnt see any ring though


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## Aly (Jul 30, 2007)

sarahjayne87 said:


> It does look a bit like the picture, i didnt see any ring though



That's good if there's no ring-the ring is basically the blood veins that are no longer growing forming a circle around the...chick. If the pic looks like what you are seeing that means you have a very live egg that is ready to hatch.


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

I hope so but is that possible as its only been incubated since 26th sept so 14 days?  i thourght it was 18-21 days


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## Aly (Jul 30, 2007)

sarahjayne87 said:


> I hope so but is that possible as its only been incubated since 26th sept so 14 days?  i thourght it was 18-21 days



If I had to guess I would say that is the least developed egg as the airsack moving to the side is really the last step before hatching. I hope all of them do hatch but I can't say for sure-from what you're explaining that's what it describes for me. Are you keeping the babies?


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

Im going to keep one, to go with millie (my other hand reared one)  as i havent got room to keep the three


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## Aly (Jul 30, 2007)

Anything new happening today?


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

any babies yet?


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## sarahjayne87 (Aug 14, 2007)

HI all, sorry i havnt been on in a while pc problems again, still isnt sorted im actually using my mobile phone so i hope it works any way bad news :-( egg 1 hatched and a few hours later i found him dead with a bite mark on his neck egg 2 didnt hatch it turned grey so i think it died in the shell? egg 3 i took away from the parentr and incubated it myself but it didnt hatch any ideas?


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## Laura (Jul 30, 2007)

sarahjayne87 said:


> HI all, sorry i havnt been on in a while pc problems again, still isnt sorted im actually using my mobile phone so i hope it works any way bad news :-( egg 1 hatched and a few hours later i found him dead with a bite mark on his neck egg 2 didnt hatch it turned grey so i think it died in the shell? egg 3 i took away from the parentr and incubated it myself but it didnt hatch any ideas?


Sarah I am sorry to hear about the babies  I had been waiting and wondering what happend, sounds like with a bite mark one of the parents bite his neck  maybe they knew something was wrong with him I have heard its common in first time parents, was it there first time? I found this article about eggs not hatching maybe it will help you 
http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/eggs.html


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## Bea (Jul 26, 2007)

I'm sorry to hear this clutch didn't work out for you.


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