# My strange pair and their 5th attempt



## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

I did post on here last year a few times, my cock seemed to be distracting the hen into mating and she would leave the eggs she already had for too long and they would chill.

3 clutches last year, 0 hatches.

I put it down to inexperience maybe, there is also the point that my cock will not enter the nestbox, I have even made a larger box with a larger entrance hole and still he will not enter it, ever.

They are now on their second clutch this year, the first was a day or two from hatching(could see movement inside all the eggs)when she abandoned them. It is now about time to see some hatching from this latest clutch, yesterday I could see the chicks moving fine, this morning she has been out of the box more than in and I could not see any clear movement, although a possible pip mark but im not hopeful.

This year I cannot blame the cock for distracting her as he has not been bothering her so much when she is out, he also shows a clear interest in the eggs as spends long periods of time bending over the front of the box to look in and see them, but like I said will not enter it.

Should I stop trying to breed with this cock, could being incubated and hand raised cause him to have no idea he needs to help sit? Or is he just bad for breeding?

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated, as it is pretty frustrating!


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

i cant really say why the cock wont enter, some of my best parents are handfed, but an egg that is ready to hatch mom and dad will let cool down to aid in the hatching process. what you dont mention is the age of your birds.


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## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

The cock was born in 08 and the hen was 18 months when we bought her last january or february I forget. I understand the leaving to cool down but if she is trying that she has bad timing as 4/5 and more than likely this clutch also, have chilled and died and for the last 3 it has been very close to the time they are due to hatch.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

i recommend you get another pair and try fostering the eggs to then, thats what i found out this morning with one of my pairs, they sit great and have fertile eggs and babies have no problem hatching, but the parents didnt feed her and i wasnt intime to intervene, the last of thier eggs are now bing fostered by a pair i know are great parents. the idea is to set up 2 pairs that breed at the same time and swap infertile for fertile, giving the pair that abandon the eggs just before hatching the infertile eggs, and giving the fertile eggs to the other pair, if you have 2 pairs that you can use as foster parents that would work better so you dont have really large clutches, but well if you supplement it will help


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

You might have to watch the eggs and place them in a incubator if she doesn't sit on them the last few days and lets them die. Problem is, not having successful clutches can also be hard on the hen and cause depression.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

i know how frustrating it can be, i have one pair great sitters, and then babes hatch i have to rush them out of the box and hope that another pair is feeding chicks their age, cause they dont feed the babes, they just sit on the baby, i dont know exactly why, ive seen one or the other out of the box feeding themselves, but they dont feed the chicks, i lost a chick this morning cause i didnt act quick enough, i thought that maybe this time, and i didnt have another pair with any babes yet, it hatched this morning, and that one hatching then shocked me cause i checked the egg day 19, nothing, no pip no peeps no movement, and then it hatched on the 20th day at 930 am, and i went up stairs and checked on my other pairs eggs and could hear peeping and so i thought well ill move her in tommorrow after a supplement feeding, as i honestly thought that she would be fine at 5 am, and well she had already passed with an empty crop and that was only 21 hours after hatching. I feel bad that i should have pulled her yesterday as she could have snuggled with my stunted babies until i could have fostered her, and feeding her couldnt have been much different than them as they are the size of 2-3 day olds. this was only their second go around so i was hoping for improvement. obviously i need to change things around which is why im trying to train my retired pair to be foster parents so that they can raise the babes.


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## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

Getting another pair would be a good idea I guess, maybe in the autumn or next spring.

If I was to incubate for the last days could I return the chick to the nest ? I actually got offered an incubator after last time. Would have to watch it carefully im thinking but the noise of the chick should get it fed ? If they are definatly dead this time then I will remove the box, they have been mating so with the box gone she will just lay on the floor or in a food bowl and leave them ?

It is odd some of the behaviour of some birds, having another pair set up, a pair I know will raise a clutch without help would be ideal, for fosters to any of this pairs eggs/chicks. Last time was so close I went and got everything I would need for hand/supplement feeding, hopefully I wont need to use it but I do have it just in case.

Thanks for the replies I will go and check on them shortly and see if I was just being defeatist !


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

yes you coul return the chick but that still doesnt guarentee that they will be wnting to take over feeding, fostering the eggs to another pair is a better idea than handfeeding from day one the problem with removing the eggs to incubate until hatching is that your pair may start mating and laying more eggs.


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## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

I think ill just get another pair and set them up with these next year, cheers for the help.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

Good luck and remember that if the other pair is mainly just a foster pair, two males will do in a pinch, you just give them a nest box and place fake eggs in once they are sitting tight on those eggs then you swap out the eggs under your hen real for fake. just remembr that the males do need to be bonded, but they can make just as good of parents as a real pair.


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## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

My wife suggested taking the side off where I had made a door 12" wide and 6" high, so I did that and 2 days later he was in there helping sit on the eggs. I guess he had a phobia of round holes, or the dark.

I havnt really looked at or touched the eggs this time just leaving them to it.

I guess if you ever have a bird that wont enter a nesting box try one with the slit style rather than a round hole, I will make a new front if anything comes of these so the slit will be smaller as the box is pretty open as it stands.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Its good he's helping now...hopefully this clutch makes it!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Some pix's would be helpful to show what you mean


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## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

Its very open, but he goes in so its a step in the right direction!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Thats great.....the pix's are very helpful. So if a person had a box that had the divided sliding back they can just remove the upper half.


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## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

srtiels said:


> Thats great.....the pix's are very helpful. So if a person had a box that had the divided sliding back they can just remove the upper half.


Yea, after whatever happens the the eggs in there at the moment happens I will blank off the hole, or replace the whole front with a plain piece of ply and I think make the entrance a little narrower.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

You can probably leave the opening as is even when the eggs hatch. I will sometimes hang the boxes like your inside my colony flight and they do well with the open back like that. Since they can see better they are less prone to panicicking in the box, and are less likely to abandon the nest.

Keep us poste...and good luck


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## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

Just got the opportunity to check on the eggs, I had left them alone for nearly the whole time up until now but was thinking they are about due or just overdue.

Happy to say I have 3 eggs with movement, tilted air sacs, no veins visible, 1 looked to have like a black hairline crack and im pretty certain I could hear 3 different chirps! 2 infertile eggs too but that is all good.

Heres hoping the hatching all goes fine.


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## Duckybird (Sep 13, 2010)

Good luck!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

YAY for fuzzies!


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## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

Thanks !

Yesterday I had a quick peek and saw a glimpse of 2 chicks, today whilst changing food and water the hen jumped off to look big and warn me off so I had a better look and have 2 healthy looking I think at least chicks ! One has normal eyes the others are nearly the same colour as the skin, the dad has cinnamon and lutino so no surprise.

Here is the only pic I managed to get before I left them alone to get on with it the one with red eyes has its back to the camera lol.



Just gotta hope the other egg hatches OK.

Oh yea I havnt witnessed any feeding but they are chirping fine and dad would get some water and seeds pop back to the box and while he was in the chirping would stop for short periods so I was guessing they are getting fed OK.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Super cute! You'll know when they get fed, they'll make super fast chirpy sounds. How old are they? Parents normally don't feed for the first 24 hours.


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## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

They both hatched yesterday, I have heard the fast chirps just now and as soon as they started their mum went straight back to the box and was doing something with dad also in the box but neither actually sitting on the area where the chicks or eggs are.

When I candled the eggs they all looked about the same so im just waiting for a chance to check on the thirds progress.

This is all new to me and them so im trying not to interfer too much but I also want to check to make sure they are ok lol.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

OK the fast chirps mean dad was feeding them which is a good sign!


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## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

Here they are on day 3, the third egg has hatched at some point too so thats good !



I was hoping my hen might of been split to whiteface, does the white edge to the face mask apply to hens too ? The feathers there look more white than yellow but with the grey wash its hard to tell anyway. Judging by this clutch most likely not anyway but its still possible as the calculator has only 50% of total chicks being whiteface if she was.

Im guessing by the eyes I have a lutino, a cinnamon and a grey as they all look a different colour, pity you cant see the third chicks eyes in that pic. The 2 you can see would be the lutino and the grey as im thinking anyway.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I agree with that, super cute. Is the all white bird dad? Sometimes splits won't show up in the first clutch or two, so if she is split WF you may get them in another clutch. The percentage is just an average.


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## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

Yea thats the dad he has been really good since he decided to actually enter the box.

They both seem to be pretty on the ball considering these are the first chicks either have raised.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Its instinct. Since dad is a WF lutino your little lutino baby is a girl. They're very cute!


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## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

This is the 4th and 5th day pics.





Been trying to play with the camera to get a better picture but it seems to be worse than I started 

The 2 chicks with the very light eyes(I think I was not looking correctly when I said 3 different colours)should be cinnamon lutino's if the father is(which im not 100% on)and yea little hens. Their eyes are darkening now not as dark as the greys, you might be able to just about see 1 eye on the second pic!

Should I think about removing the infertile eggs now ? I am 100% sure they are infertile from candling and the chicks dont shiver when the parents are off them now and seem to hold their heads up at least when they want to so wondered if they have served their purpose.

They grow so fast !


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## Debbie05 (Feb 9, 2010)

Very cute!!! I am waiting for babies myself.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

oh my they are so cute


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## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

Thanks ! Its pretty amazing seeing how fast they can grow for yourself the first time, one has opened its eyes since this morning and started hissing at me, chicks hissing are pretty funny lol.


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## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

They are now near enough fully fledged, the little grey was sitting out in the aviary this morning I went in changed food water etc like usual and he was fine with me as I have been handling them twice a day from sunday just gone and once a day from 14 days until sunday. I got him to step up and he kept looking at the nest box so I put him near it and he went back in of his own accord, but did I do the right thing putting him near it ?

They are great chicks and only one isnt responding well to being handled but that may just be the way she will be.

I will grab some new pics later because they have changed so much.


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## Belinda (Oct 9, 2010)

would love to see some pics


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

I also agree with the pics :yes:


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

You did fine to put him near the box so he could get back in, he may have gotten out but that doesn't mean he knows how to get back in yet. Pics are a must!


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## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

Here ya go


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

aww so cute


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Well ain't they just gorgeous?


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## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

They are 7 weeks today, 2 days ago chicks started hatching from another clutch and since yesterday the parents refuse to feed them(the older birds), either flying away when they beg or attacking them until they fly away.

They have been eating and drinking for weeks and only being parent fed once a day for a week at least, anyway are they safe to seperate from the parents without needing feeding ? I am thinking yes as the parents wont feed them now anyway but would like the opinion of someone with experience.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

they might be a little young still to not being fed that 1x daily extra feed amount their used to
you might have to really watch their weights to make sure they don't lose any weight
and judge if they still require that extra daily feeding..
sometimes they look weaned but they are not really eating enough to be considered 
truly weaned
weigh them each morning and watch weight closely if they drop weight you will need
to give a 1x daily feeding if parents won't
keep in mind though they probably won't accept a syringe at this point since you wern't handfeeding them a bent spoon might work for feeding them at that age...just a last thought
hope this helps you


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## RobUK (Sep 17, 2010)

I will keep an eye on them, I wont remove them yet im in no rush its nice to see them in the aviary.

Ill bear that in mind about the spoon aswell and get one ordered, I only have syringes at the moment, cheers.


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