# Clutch not thriving.



## urchin_grey (Jun 23, 2014)

So I'm raising my second clutch of babies (different parents than the first) and its not going well this time. Everything went smoothly with the last clutch and I ended up with 3 bigger than average, gorgeous birds. 

This clutch, I already lost one. He was very stunted in the nest and although I assist fed, he just wouldn't grow. The other two babies were pulled at about 21 days and they've done nothing but lose weight since. I am doing everything exactly the same as I did with the last babies. Same brand of formula, same formula to weight ratio, same feeding schedule. Their crops are emptying fine, droppings look normal. They're active. Just losing weight and their feathers aren't filling out. 

Is it possible that their parents are just a bad match genetically? Our other two pairs originally came from a long line of birds from a reputable breeder. But beyond "proven pair who make healthy babies" (what we were told by the previous owners), we don't really know much about this pair. 

Needless to say, we won't be breeding this pair again. We're 0:3 on healthy babies and I don't like those odds.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear that. I don't have any experience with babies but srtiels, one of our members has a lot of good info on her website: http://www.justcockatiels.net/index.html. Hope it helps.


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## urchin_grey (Jun 23, 2014)

Thank you! That page is actually the info I used when I raised the first clutch.  The feeding schedule worked wonders apparently because the first babies did great.

However, when I initially realized these guys were losing, I had added a feeding. Maybe that was my mistake. They just seemed so hungry and I'm afraid to go back down a feeding after they've lost so much already!

I guess I'll just see where they are tomorrow morning and go from there.


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## dianne (Nov 27, 2013)

Why would it have been a mistake to add a feeding? It seems as though, if they are losing weight that would be a good thing.

I don't really know, just curious what your thinking is.

Good luck with them.


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## urchin_grey (Jun 23, 2014)

dianne said:


> Why would it have been a mistake to add a feeding? It seems as though, if they are losing weight that would be a good thing.
> 
> I don't really know, just curious what your thinking is.
> 
> Good luck with them.


I've read that "over feeding" can cause them to actually lose weight... because their bodies have to work harder to digest it.

But I think maybe that only applies to the amount fed in one feeding rather than the amount of total feedings. If that makes sense.

Their crops are emptying just fine though so I'm going to stick to the extra feedings and hopefully they'll start to get caught up.


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## SoCalTiels (Oct 8, 2013)

I'm not a breeder either and only hand fed a conure, so I can't offer much, apologies. As long as their crop is emptying well, I would stick to the extra feeding. They really shouldn't be losing weight at this age, or at all until they get closer to weaning. It doesn't sound like sour/slow crop. I would feed what they accept, within extremes, until their weights seem more on track to normal. As long as they seem to be digesting fully, you just want to keep their body weight healthy. Charts can't predict every individual or clutch, they just help to give an outline, so don't worry if you stray a bit. 

Also, make sure you're measuring around the same time each day. Babies can vary a lot within a normal range depending on when they've eaten.


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## urchin_grey (Jun 23, 2014)

SoCalTiels said:


> I'm not a breeder either and only hand fed a conure, so I can't offer much, apologies. As long as their crop is emptying well, I would stick to the extra feeding. They really shouldn't be losing weight at this age, or at all until they get closer to weaning. It doesn't sound like sour/slow crop. I would feed what they accept, within extremes, until their weights seem more on track to normal. As long as they seem to be digesting fully, you just want to keep their body weight healthy. Charts can't predict every individual or clutch, they just help to give an outline, so don't worry if you stray a bit.
> 
> Also, make sure you're measuring around the same time each day. Babies can vary a lot within a normal range depending on when they've eaten.


Yeah, I weigh them just before their first feeding of the day so they're good and "empty" and I can an accurate idea of their progress (or lack thereof in this case). They started off pretty small to begin with but I wasn't too concerned about that. Its the weight loss and complete lack of development that's so worrying. They haven't even grown in any new feathers. Their crops only have a few random feathers and their backs are pretty bare. They overall just look kind of pitiful. The other chicks were practically fully feathered at this point.


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## urchin_grey (Jun 23, 2014)

Well, Ducky dropped dead this morning.  I fed him first, he was fine and begging for more food. Then as I was feeding Cera, Ducky started to aspirate for no apparent reason. He's done that before but this time I was a few seconds too late I guess. 

I just looked back at pics of our other birds at the same age and its very apparent there's just something wrong with these.  

Would over breeding cause an entire clutch to be stunted? The previous owners of the parents said they only had a clutch around March... but who knows if they were entirely truthful.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I would add pau 'd arco to their food. It's a supplement you can get in liquid form from the store. A couple drops each feeding. I used it to save a clutch of babies that were doing poorly. 

I don't think this is over breeding. It may be that the parents aren't settled in enough yet to be proper parents or they weren't eating properly when they made the babies (sounds similar to the issue I was having which we suspected might have been a Vit E deficiency.) But just to be on the safe side this is not a pair I would allow to breed together again.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

So sorry to hear about Ducky. Hugs.


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## urchin_grey (Jun 23, 2014)

roxy culver said:


> I would add pau 'd arco to their food. It's a supplement you can get in liquid form from the store. A couple drops each feeding. I used it to save a clutch of babies that were doing poorly.
> 
> I don't think this is over breeding. It may be that the parents aren't settled in enough yet to be proper parents or they weren't eating properly when they made the babies (sounds similar to the issue I was having which we suspected might have been a Vit E deficiency.) But just to be on the safe side this is not a pair I would allow to breed together again.


Actually, vit E sounds like that could be it because the most obvious issue just by looking at them is their feathers. Their flight feathers look kind of scrappy and the latest pin feathers are way too thin.

The parents' diet is seeds, Roudybush (breeder formula), and fresh foods and the female does NOT hesitate to let you know when a dish is empty. lol She will eat anything but now that I think about it, I'm not sure the male was eating enough variety. They were in a large cage with another pair at the time so its hard to say.

They seemed to be taking good care of the babies otherwise though. They would even split the eggs sometimes so dad could sit on half and mom on the other half and once they were hatched, their crops were always full.



sunnysmom said:


> So sorry to hear about Ducky. Hugs.


Yeah, I feel so bad.  I went into this to give these birds happy, healthy lives and now that makes two who got less than one crappy month.

And obviously I'm not going to be able to rehome Cera to another family. I guess she's mine now, for however long she lives. <3


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