# Family Cleaning The Oven



## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

So I woke up this morning and went downstairs to find my mom starting the self cleaning function on our oven. I've told her countless times this is bad for Kiwi, but even after reminding her of that again this morning she started the oven anyway. She's the most stubborn person I've ever met and even after I offered to clean it without the self cleaning function involved she wanted to do it "her way" she said. She loves to impress company so that's the only reason she's cleaning it right now because we have family coming out.

I'm so mad, I'm just venting it out here I know. It's like the universe keeps throwing me things to get through with Kiwi. It's 40 F out so I can't take Kiwi outside, plus her immune system is gone from the baytril so the change in temperature can't be good for her. All the cars are gone once Mom leaves so I can't take Kiwi for a drive either. I just opened all the windows in the kitchen, mom complained, but she can deal with the cold since she's leaving soon anyway. I got a fan at the door to get the fumes outside faster. An air purifier in Kiwi's room, covered all the vents, and put a towel under the door to block anything else. I'm hoping that's going to be enough. Kiwi is upstairs in my room where all those horrible fumes head. I can't believe she wouldn't let me clean the oven and would put Kiwi through this.


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## Tisena (Sep 28, 2013)

Oh no I hate stubborn family, but because mum n nan love the birds too if they persist in being bottoms I am abit mean, I'd rather be mean and hurt their feelings for a few hours than one or all of my babies being ill or worse


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## Peetenomax (Nov 23, 2013)

after mom leaves unplug the oven. let it cool down & clean it yourself


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## SlightlyNorth (May 26, 2014)

Oh man, that's really annoying yeah. My family has been pretty accommodating for me thus far, but yeah Minnesota weather huh? It's getting colder outside. o.o I'm pretty happy with that myself, but for situations like this the colder temperature's not good! I hope things go all right!


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## tielbob (Mar 25, 2013)

Fumes from heated nonstick coatings have killed many birds.
I agree that you should just clean the oven by hand yourself.
Your mom wouldn't be happy if she saw what the loss of Kiwi did to you and by then it would be too late to do anything about it.
As soon as a bird shows symptoms of teflon poisoning, it's too late because the lungs have already been destroyed. Some bigger birds have survived with oxygen treatment but it's rare.


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## karendh (Mar 25, 2013)

The only thing I can suggest is that you clean the oven yourself on a regular basis so that your mum has no need to do it.


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

The entire house is freezing, but it aired out really nicely. I put Kiwi's little snuggle-up bird warmer in her hospital cage and opened my room's window from time to time just in case. There's still a little Teflon smell in the air, so I'm going to let the house air out more. I left my computer downstairs so I couldn't respond until now. I didn't want to risk opening the door too often.



Tisena said:


> Oh no I hate stubborn family, but because mum n nan love the birds too if they persist in being bottoms I am abit mean, I'd rather be mean and hurt their feelings for a few hours than one or all of my babies being ill or worse


Me too, I get very protective of Kiwi. Especially now since she is recovering from her leg injury. She's my little fid. 
I can be just as stubborn as my mother if I need to if it's for Kiwi. :lol:
Mom was just more stubborn this time.



> after mom leaves unplug the oven. let it cool down & clean it yourself


I was thinking I could just clean it when she left, but she didn't leave until it was almost done cleaning so there was no chance. 



> Oh man, that's really annoying yeah. My family has been pretty accommodating for me thus far, but yeah Minnesota weather huh? It's getting colder outside. o.o I'm pretty happy with that myself, but for situations like this the colder temperature's not good! I hope things go all right!


Thank you! Everything is good so far with Kiwi thankfully. 
Oh you're new to Minnesota? Welcome! You should check out the apple orchards before it starts getting colder. We have really good apples here. Yes, you can feel when Fall comes every year. It's right after the State Fair (It's always around 90F that week). There's a drop in temperature one week and you know fall is here. It's usually nice in October in the 70s, but Halloween night it's almost always 30F :lol:
November is when it starts getting really cold, and Mid December to January is when we have the worst weather. You want a jacket that can withstand the -20F windchill weather in January. Summers are really nice though. 



> Fumes from heated nonstick coatings have killed many birds.
> I agree that you should just clean the oven by hand yourself.
> Your mom wouldn't be happy if she saw what the loss of Kiwi did to you and by then it would be too late to do anything about it.
> As soon as a bird shows symptoms of teflon poisoning, it's too late because the lungs have already been destroyed. Some bigger birds have survived with oxygen treatment but it's rare.


I showed her an article on self-cleaning ovens and she said it wasn't PTFE coated until I found the manual that said it was. Only then she realized why I was so upset about this and barricaded Kiwi and I in my room, It's like what I said didn't get through to her until then. I've been telling her about the dangers of it since I got Kiwi, I don't know how she would filter it all out


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## SlightlyNorth (May 26, 2014)

Oh oops, sorry my sentence was a little confusing! I've actually lived in Minnesota all my life, born and raised, and I talk like it!  I loove the cold weather, always have since I was little and honestly summers here are a little too hot for me. Yeah, I'm really quite a wimp when it comes to heat heh.

I'm very glad everything is good with Kiwi so far, hopefully it stays that way!


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## slugabed (Jul 27, 2014)

That's terrible, but... ovens have a self-cleaning feature? Wow, I must be living in the stone age.

After this I googled for "self-cleaning oven" and the 2nd result is an article saying why they should NOT be used! The 3rd result is a link to the 2nd result!


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

Oh, my bad! You're a fellow Minnesotan :rofl:
I love the cold weather too. I hate when it gets hotter than 70F honestly. I think I'm used to it being cold about 70% of the year and that's why the summer heat feels so horrible. :lol:

I hope so too. She'd been wanting to get out of her hospital bin and run around this whole time, I just let her out. I had to go in and out and didn't want her inhaling any PTFE when the door opened. I'd been keeping her happy with scritches. She hates it when she doesn't get time outside of it. Right now I think she just wants to preen my face.


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

Hey thanks for posting this. I actually did not know that self-cleaning ovens are harmful to birds! I just got married and moved to a new condo a month ago. In the new condo, the oven is also self-cleaning. I actually don't quite understand how it works myself :blush: (so don't fee bad, slugabed, I also am still living in the Stone Age  ). But I'm glad I know now not to use it unless I move Sunny outta there first!  I don't really use the oven much----only for baking muffins and the odd casserole, so it is not likely that I would ever use that self-cleaning feature because it really would be very clean. I most likely would just clean it myself and even then, it would probably only be once a year (or even less). But thanks for letting me know about this!


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

Annie said:


> Hey thanks for posting this. I actually did not know that self-cleaning ovens are harmful to birds! I just got married and moved to a new condo a month ago. In the new condo, the oven is also self-cleaning. I actually don't quite understand how it works myself :blush: (so don't fee bad, slugabed, I also am still living in the Stone Age  ). But I'm glad I know now not to use it unless I move Sunny outta there first!  I don't really use the oven much----only for baking muffins and the odd casserole, so it is not likely that I would ever use that self-cleaning feature because it really would be very clean. I most likely would just clean it myself and even then, it would probably only be once a year (or even less). But thanks for letting me know about this!


I'm glad that it helped! 
It's so scary now everything has Teflon in it, you have to always check to see when getting a new appliance it seems. 
I would recommend looking at this link. There are lots of items, including hair dryers, that have PTFE in them and can be harmful to our 'tiels when they are overheated. http://www.rachelcarsoncouncil.org/index.php?page=pet-birds-harmed-by-non-stick-coating-fumes


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## SlightlyNorth (May 26, 2014)

Kiwi said:


> Oh, my bad! You're a fellow Minnesotan :rofl:
> I love the cold weather too. I hate when it gets hotter than 70F honestly. I think I'm used to it being cold about 70% of the year and that's why the summer heat feels so horrible. :lol:
> 
> I hope so too. She'd been wanting to get out of her hospital bin and run around this whole time, I just let her out. I had to go in and out and didn't want her inhaling any PTFE when the door opened. I'd been keeping her happy with scritches. She hates it when she doesn't get time outside of it. Right now I think she just wants to preen my face.


Haha yeah I hate it when it gets hotter than that as well so there you go! Actually, even 70F is a little warm for me oops. Colder weather is my favorite. 

Heh, I'd want time outside too! No fun being cooped up!


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## yokobirdie (Jul 9, 2014)

Kiwi said:


> Oh, my bad! You're a fellow Minnesotan :rofl:
> I love the cold weather too. I hate when it gets hotter than 70F honestly.


Oh yeah, me too! I love the cold, but I'm from California.


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## Guest (Oct 1, 2014)

I didn't have time to read this entire thread but I had no idea it's bad to use the self cleaning setting to clean ovens? Why is that?.. as I don't believe any parts of my oven are made of teflon?


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## Tisena (Sep 28, 2013)

http://home.howstuffworks.com/self-cleaning-ovens.htm said:


> Way back in 1963, General Electric came up with a solution: the self-cleaning oven. The company's innovative P7 model introduced the pyrolytic cleaning method [source: GE Appliances]. That was a fancy name for heating the residue until it carbonized and turned to ash. The oven included extra thermodynamic controls to allow it to reach the high temperatures needed. Today, another option is the steam-cleaning oven, which loosens dirt without resorting to extremes of heat.
> Self-cleaning is a slight exaggeration -- you still need to get involved. You'll want to remove any drippings or build-up that come off easily before turning on the self-cleaning cycle in order to reduce smoke and fumes. And no matter which self-cleaning method you choose, you'll need to wipe up the residue when the cleaning cycle is over.
> As you can imagine, the heat needed for the self-clean cycle requires a lot of energy. The ovens can also give off a smell like barbecued roadkill, especially while burning off thick layers of grime. And the fumes they emit can be toxic to pet birds.
> But for the most part, self-cleaning ovens are a boon for anyone who bakes. They let you toss out your chemical cleaners. They clean the whole oven, even those hard-to-reach areas, without excess elbow grease. As a bonus, pyrolytic ovens save energy during normal baking because of the extra insulation that's added to contain the high heat.


Just saw this  so even if it's not teflon it lets off some bad fumes due to it burning the dirt off


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## Guest (Oct 1, 2014)

The goods news is that I'm an anal clean freak and my oven is NEVER dirty because I always line the bottom rack with foil so everything that is messy get's caught on top of the foil which then gets replaced. I also don't ever bake anything that splatters 

I used the self clean once many yrs ago because my mother who used to live in this house before I took over it was incredibly messy! You should have seen the inside of the fridge, it was alarming.. I was speechless!! Took me 4 hours to clean it. I cannot tolerate people who are messy slobs. Drives me crazy.


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## tielbob (Mar 25, 2013)

I'm glad Kiwi is ok after this incident, but I would suggest that you do whatever you need to do to remove her from the house the next time Mom is about to do an oven cleaning. The primary hazard posed by the self-cleaning oven cycle is not the fumes from the gunk that's being incinerated by the high heat - it's the heating of nonstick substances such as Teflon that release deadly gases into the home. Deadly for birds and sickening to humans - look up 'Teflon flu' on the web to see what's known about its affects on people.
The death that birds experience from nonstick chemical exposure is extremely painful and horrible to watch, and horrible to have caused if you did it. The lungs are destroyed very quickly by the gases that are released from the heated surface. The bird suffers while the helpless owner struggles to provide aid which is generally useless since you can't replace the destroyed lungs. You can read more about the details if you do a little searching.
This very thing happened to someone in my bird club who was familiar with the risks of 'overheated' nonstick surfaces but didn't realize that the oven they were cleaning was internally coated with Teflon during manufacture. And, no, the manual didn't say anything about the potential presence of the chemical or it's danger to birds. Those advisories were only added after numerous losses, lawsuits, and bad publicity occurred. In this case, after the tragedy which claimed the lives of several macaws and a number of smaller birds, the owner attempted legal action against the retailer, the manufacturer, etc. It largely went nowhere. Your birds are valued as follows: What was the value of the thing before it died? The short answer is: little to nothing, except for the emotional value to you which is meaningless. So the legal process simply added more pain to the family's torment.
And for people who desperately want to believe the statement that the nonstick products are safe under normal use, then good luck with that one. It has been shown that routine oven cleaning, which to most of would be 'normal use', releases deadly fumes.
These things don't just happen to the 'other guy', they happen to us, too.
I compare the issue to this: If a traffic light turns red and you are on foot trying to cross the street, do you look to make sure the cars have stopped or do you just walk forth and expect it? Should you be mistaken, that is, should a car not stop and it strikes you whose problem do you think it _really_ is? The driver who is safely behind the wheel or you who are lying mangled in the street? The driver might feel bad but that person will go on with their life just as before, perhaps with a twinge of regret. You, on the other hand, might spend all your remaining days in a nursing home.
The point is, _you _ are responsible for making sure the cars stop since _you _ have the most to lose. You are also responsible for making sure the pets are kept away from those gases because, once again, you have the most to lose (on behalf of your bird's life.)
There are enough hazards to our birds even when we are trying to do all the right things just in normal day to day life. Kiwi's door experience is an example. So when we are given the opportunity to avoid disaster with our pets, such as removing them from the home where nonstick fumes are likely present, we need to do it.
Anyone can read up on the web what has happened to the 'other guys' who have lost and are left with a lifetime of regret that they killed their pets. You don't want it to happen to you, and by that I mean any of us.


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## slugabed (Jul 27, 2014)

All I know is that I clean the ovens myself. Then again from what I gather I don't use them the same way you guys do, so I have never found cleaning them difficult.


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## Nimra (Aug 4, 2014)

I will be sure to protect cookie while mom cleans the oven. My family is like that too. I scold the for using the perfume near cookie but they just scream at me and tell me to be quite.


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## Peetenomax (Nov 23, 2013)

Nimra said:


> I will be sure to protect cookie while mom cleans the oven. My family is like that too. I scold the for using the perfume near cookie but they just scream at me and tell me to be quite.


In my home it's hairspray. I hate it. I insist that the bathroom door MUST be closed while using it & after he's done. The stuff stick to the back of my throat so badly I actually cover my mouth with a tissue to breathe when i have to go in there afterwards. I can just imagine what that would do to the birds.


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## Tisena (Sep 28, 2013)

Here it's toilet cleaning, my nan does it every morning no matter what I say, so I wait til she's out of the bathroom flush the toilet turn on the extractor fan open the window and shut the door, shut the door to the room the birds are in and open the window slightly (no more than an inch) and put the fan on


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

I hate the hairsprays and burning of the food on ovens too. They both stink. :S

Tielbob- Oh yeah, next time I'm going for a drive. I can avoid it when she gives me a heads up. She just flips out whenever company comes over, so I really hate when she invites anyone over. I can't even invite friends over without her obsessively cleaning everything. It's all about appearances, nothing else matters. She goes into a cleaning frenzy of chemicals and lights every candle she can. It's a deadly time for Kiwi and I go for drives with Kiwi before she starts it and until it all airs out. My door is closed the whole time with the air purifier on to help keep everything out when I return. I didn't have much choice in that situation except to barricade Kiwi in because of the deadly Teflon. Mom kept saying she was about to leave so I couldn't drive away either.


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## tielbob (Mar 25, 2013)

I know you're in a tough spot - your Mom doesn't understand how sensitive birds are.
We all love Kiwi!


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## Peetenomax (Nov 23, 2013)

Oh I just thought of something to help with your bedroom/safe haven.

You can improve the seal of your bedroom door cheaply.
They make a type of weather stripping for doors. It's usually used to prevent drafts. It's basically a foam rubber tape. Put it around the door frame. When your door closes it forms a seal. For the bottom of the door don't they make some sort of rubber strip, like a mudflap.

Anyway the weather stripping is cheap & easy to install
The downside is that you can't slam your door closed anymore


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

Peetenomax- I was thinking of duct taping my door because I could feel an air current coming in, but that sounds great! I don't know if my family would like it, but it sure would keep Kiwi safe. 

tielbob- Yeah, I've gotten her to stop burning candles at least.
Aww thanks! Kiwi loves you guys too!! :3


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## Peetenomax (Nov 23, 2013)

They wont see it when the door is close. Since it's applied to the inside of the door frame, the part that comes in contact with the door, it will only be visible from inside the room when the door is open.

Although I like the duct tape bit. Wouldn't company have a few questions about that on your door. You can say it's to protect your bird. Mom's tries to kill my birds every time you come over. Could you stay away? 

Thank you. (be polite)


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

My mother is a little OCD on how things should look so I'd have to discuss that with her or else it would be quite a scene. :wacko:

Family doesn't come over too often, they live in other states. When anyone comes over she gets like that basically. When I want friends to come over, I have to clean the house. Oh, but my brother doesn't have to clean the house because his friends come over randomly and have already seen it messy. So I said if my friends saw it like that it would be fine and I wouldn't have to clean anymore. That didn't work, I just never heard the end of it every time I brought them over like that. With my brother it's fine because they've seen it messy, my friends can never see it messy even though they've seen it messy. I don't get it, what's so different about my friends that I can't enjoy their company without cleaning the entire house. :blink:


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## Peetenomax (Nov 23, 2013)

Sorry can't help you there. My oldest sister can though. 
I was your brother. There were 2 sets of rules in our house. One for the boys & one for the girls. 

Of the 4 of us I was the oldest & only boy.
Drove my sisters nuts.

Edit
Forgot to say the weather stripping is narrow & put up neatly, won't be very noticeable.
If mom objects, plead you case that it's protection that will give you peace of mind. Look it up online. You may find a color match.


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

If it isn't that noticeable and I sweeten the deal with me complaining less when the stripping keeps the chemicals, candles, and odors out I think she'll agree with it. Of course her spray painting is a no-go still, that stuff is horrible. Thank you, I'll have to look it up!


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## slugabed (Jul 27, 2014)

Yea, that's definitely gender bias at work. So sorry to hear about it.


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