# pip but no push



## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I had to assist one of my babies today, it had pipped and cut all the way around the shell, but it couldn't push out. As I remove part of the shell I noticed feces, no blood vessels left and all the egg sack had been absorbed, so I removed it from the shell. Now I have another pipping, but it has one hole and has been there for about 3 hours at least with nothing but the one pip hole, I candled it, and there is movement still, should I assist it too? 

I'm wondering if the heat is causing all the problems, it's been over 105 for days now. My doves are also pipping, but half have died in the shell. The parents have water to play in, other than that I don't know what to do. My husband got angry with me that I'd helped the first one., but it is still alive, 3 hours after I removed it. Should I pull it for hand feeding or let it stay with mom and dad. It doesn't look like it's been fed yet.


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## Jenny10 (Feb 27, 2010)

When you say pip hole do you mean a visible hole, or is this the first signs the star pips/cracks? Chicks can take 24-48 hrs to hatch.

If you know you are closer to the 48 hr mark in the hatching process then it is possible the chick may need help, if the chick is calling form the egg does it sound distressed this could be another indication it needs help, when I decided to intervene with mine both chicks would call from the egg when I tapped on it.

The other thing you could do is make a hole in the air cell to see if you can see if the chick needs help, if membrane looks dry, (white) then you will need to start moistening it down and preparing to assist, if you do look in the air cell you will need to have a brooder ready because once you make that opening even if the chick isn’t in trouble you cant put back in the nest with big hole in it, you will just have to keep the membrane moist and let the chick hatch in its own time.

If the chick is strong you maybe able to just give some fluids and place back in the nest, but if the chick is unable to lift his head to take fluids/food you will need to hand feed for a while until the chick is stronger and then you can try to return to the nest, but you will have to keep an eye on the parents they may refuse to feed or might want to attack the chick.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

_* My husband got angry with me that I'd helped the first one., but it is still alive, 3 hours after I removed it. Should I pull it for hand feeding or let it stay with mom and dad. It doesn't look like it's been fed yet.*_
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Shame on him. If you did not help it out it would have stressed out and died. As to the little one the parents normally do not feed solids for the first day because the chick will be digesting the yolk absorbed into the body. What it does need is fluids, especially if it looks reddened, and there are dark intestines showing thru the skin on the abdomen. You can check on the baby to see if there is a tiny amount of fluids in the base of the crop. If the parents are caring for...meaning keeping it warm that is good. You can assist feed some Pedialyte or a very thin almost watery formula...just a drop or two.

Jennys advice as to the other egg was great. She just went thru this.

And _*Congratulations*_ on the new hatchling


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I should defend my husband. I tend to get overly attached to wee ones, especially if I have to help them somehow. When they die I do tend to take it really hard. I cried for days after my two buff saddleback Pomeranian geese babies died, after they had some sort of spine damage. I made them walkers and also life preservers so they could swim without sinking. He rolls his eyes when I bring home a new baby. He just wanted to protect me from the heartache which was due to follow. 

On the flip side, there is nothing more gratifying seeing your baby survive certain death, because you'd helped it. 

I just went out to look it looks like the baby is still alive and daddy was sitting on the nest. The egg however still only has the one pip hole and no further. I'll keep an eye on the nest today and see who things progress.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

Update: Baby 1 has been fed by daddy, I'm not sure mama is too interested in the nest as she was outside it most of the night last night. I had to bring in the baby to warm it up. Egg #2 was still only on it's first pip so I got nosy, by my calculations it should have hatched on Friday, so I opened a little peep hole and found the membrane dry. now that I've moistened it, I'm not sure how to proceed. Obviously it can't turn in the egg, but I don't want to run into blood vessels either. Been there done that with chickens and geese. I guess all I can do now is wait and see when the blood vessels have retreated in to the body and assist as they do?


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

Chick #2. I noticed that the air sack was more to the side of the egg than the center of the blunt end.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

What is happened is that the inner membrane has pulled away from the shell.

Here is a link that might be helpful: http://justcockatiels.weebly.com/assist-hatches.html


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

He's free! Now in observation, the down is dry but still clumped. notice the membrane stuck to it's back. I'd moisten the membrane and a minute later it would need it again.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

BTW your page has helped me all day already. Thanks for being so thorough.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Congratulations...you have a lutino baby! (pink eye buds) If you notice the dark intestines he has been trapped for awhile. The dark is a sign of dehydration, which is causing the yolk to trun darker. He/she will have to be redyrated. If you are keeping it in a container with heat, increase the humidity, because the skin will absorb fluids too.


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## Jenny10 (Feb 27, 2010)

Congratulations on your little baby, if he is not holding his head up make sure after you give fluids to prop him up so his head is up, mine drowned himself on his crop contents with his head being down and lying on his crop, the crop contents can travel back up the neck.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

The lutino seems to be holding it's own, but I lost it's gray nest mate this afternoon. As soon as I can afford it, I'm going to set up a mist system in both my large aviaries using drip system materials. Hopefully this will help with the humidity issue I'm having with both 'tiels and doves. There are two more eggs, and another two that she has just laid.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

So mom is cinnamon pearl pied, dad is just lutino, no cinnamon, maybe split to pied. I won't know unless I have visual pied babies.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

You'll know more on it's exact mutation once it feathers out.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I was just going by what the virtual breeder says I'd end up with if I bred a lutino cock to a pied cinnamon pearl, as opposed to a cinnamon lutino to a cinnamon pearl pied. I had one normal looking baby, it died, and I have the lutino baby, a male and a female? I have two more eggs ready to hatch tomorrow and Friday, we'll see what they are.



Motheried Cinnamon Pearl
Father:Lutino

male offspring:
100% Grey Split To Pied {X1: Lutino} {X2: Cinnamon Pearl}

female offspring:
100% Lutino Split To Pied

VS: 

Motheried Cinnamon Pearl
Father:Cinnamon Lutino

male offspring:
100% Cinnamon Split To Pied {X1: Lutino} {X2: Pearl}

female offspring:
100% Cinnamon Lutino Split To Pied


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

Update: baby #2 is looking good, it still has pink eyes. Egg #3 hatched on it's own after giving mom and dad bath water in the bottom of their cage, it's eyes are dark with no red or otherwise. 

I'm wondering if it's the paper pulp bedding, along with the severe heat wave we had that caused them to not hatch. This is the only box with the carefresh, the others had shavings. Egg #4 was doing fine, but now is a bunch of slosh. I have a feeling it died after I had to move the box and mom and dad to a smaller cage to protect the babies. I threw it out tonight it was supposed to hatch 4 days ago. There are 3 eggs in the nest still which are due to hatch in 2 weeks. I bought a misting wand today hoping that spraying the birds will help them with hatching.

I also have 2 baby doves that hatched  I'm going to have to candle all of the dove eggs and throw out all the duds. I'm thinking of throwing out all of the eggs, unless I can see veins and let them start over. While candling tonight, my other pearl hen, started to hang out of the hole of her nest box and was hitting the wood with her wings trying to scare me off, lol. I had to leave the dove aviary before I could candle any of them because a rabbit was eating my new skirt.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I'm wondering if it's the paper pulp bedding
-----------------------------------------
Yes...that is the worst stuff to use for bedding and DOES conbritbute to dehydrating the eggs.


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