# Result of breeding Cinnamon Pearl Hen with Pied Male



## asad393 (Aug 4, 2016)

I read about genetics on this site and the articles actually taught me alot and I can make some guesses now lol. I have included the picture of my pair. Male is pied and i dont know if je is split to any mutation or not but lets say his both X have pied chromosome. Female is cinnamon pearl. 

What is guess is this:

50% Chance : Male with Pied + Cinnamon Pearl gene so I believe it would switch to normal as no common gene in both. 

50% Chance: Female Pied. 

I am considering that male has both pieds on XX. 

Please correct me as I might be making grave mistake 😊 



















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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Pied is recessive not dominant...unless the hen is carrying the pied gene as well, all babies will be normal grey in coloring. The males will all be split to the mother's mutations. All babies will be split to pied. This is if the male is not carrying any hidden mutations.


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## asad393 (Aug 4, 2016)

roxy culver said:


> Pied is recessive not dominant...unless the hen is carrying the pied gene as well, all babies will be normal grey in coloring. The males will all be split to the mother's mutations. All babies will be split to pied. This is if the male is not carrying any hidden mutations.


Is it possible that hen can carry pied gene ? I thought females are visual always for their mutation because of single X. 

Males will be split to pearl then in this case meaning when pearl + pied pearl is dominant so becomes as split ? 

Not understanding 2nd last sentence that all babies will be split to pied. 

Will they carry both genes from pied and pearl ? 

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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It's hard to be sure, but it looks to me like your hen might have a tickmark on the back of her head indicating a pied split. It looks like the cock has some ghost pearling on the wings, so he might have the pearl gene. Any other splits are hard to determine based on appearance and you'll have to wait and see what you get in the nestbox. 

Hens can't be split to sex-linked mutations (the main ones are cinnamon, lutino and pearl). But they can be split to autosomal (ordinary) recessive mutations like pied and whiteface.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The hen will give the genes for cinnamon and pearl to all of her sons. She will not give these genes to any of her daughters because sex-linked genes don't pass from mother to daughter. The sons will not be visual for these mutations unless they also get the gene from their father. If they only get the gene from mom they will be split. 

All the babies will get the pied gene from their father. If they also get the pied gene from mom they will be visual pied. If they only get the gene from dad they will be split.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> Not understanding 2nd last sentence that all babies will be split to pied.


Tiels genes don't work the way humans do. There are two different kinds of mutations in tiels, recessive and sex-linked (there's also dominant but none of the mutations here are dealing with that.)

Recessive genes are genes that require both parents to carry the gene to get visual babies. Dad has to have the gene and mom has to have the gene. Hens can be split to recessive genes but not sex-linked genes. As tielfan stated, pied and whiteface are recessive. 

Sex-linked genes are the cinnamon and pearl genes that the hen is a visual for. Males can be split to these, hens can only be visual. This means that hens can only inherit this gene from their fathers. Males have to get the gene from both parents to be visual, but can make visual daughters if they are split. Because your hen is visual for both cinnamon a pearl, all her sons will carry those genes but not be visual for it. The females will not inherit either of these genes from the mother.


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## asad393 (Aug 4, 2016)

*Thanks alot I got it all now*

Thanks to both of you.

This mistake I made was that I thought pied is sex-linked mutation but as its recessive so my pundent sqaure chart came as you guys suggested.

I would like to see any photos if you guys have to identify Pearl Hen who is split to pied and Male Pied who is split to pearl


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## Fran.bath89 (Jun 12, 2016)

Genetics are so confusing lol
I have a pair that when both were chicks they were pearl, now the male is grey but you can see a little remaining faint pearl on some wing feathers so the signs are still there and his brother was a whitefaced so I guessed he would probably carry that gene (not sure if that's how it works) I don't recall what their parents looked like. The pearl hen has stayed completely pearled and came from a normal hen and a pied cock so I presumed there would be some pied genes in her some where. Then came the off spring.... I had 1 pearl, 1 white faced, 1 normal grey and 1 pearl pied. 
Unfortunately I haven't heard anything from 3 of the chicks homes but the pearl pied is a hen. It does help if you see parents and siblings as that can give you a rough idea of what you might see


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

There's something funny going on in your nestbox! When both parents are pearl, then all the babies should be pearl too, but you got a couple that weren't. Pearl is kind of quirky and sometimes fails to show itself, but there's a strong possibility that your hen has a secret lover or that some other hen has been laying eggs in the nestbox. So I can't say for sure what genes this pair has since there are questions about the parentage of the babies.

We can be sure that the hen is split to pied though, assuming that her parents are who you think they are. Her daddy was split to pied and will give the pied gene to all his children. 

The cock would definitely be split to whiteface if one of his parents was visual whiteface. If his parents were just split, he might or might not have the gene. But if he's really the father of the whiteface babies in the nest, he's got the gene.


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## asad393 (Aug 4, 2016)

tielfan said:


> There's something funny going on in your nestbox! When both parents are pearl, then all the babies should be pearl too, but you got a couple that weren't. Pearl is kind of quirky and sometimes fails to show itself, but there's a strong possibility that your hen has a secret lover or that some other hen has been laying eggs in the nestbox. So I can't say for sure what genes this pair has since there are questions about the parentage of the babies.
> 
> We can be sure that the hen is split to pied though, assuming that her parents are who you think they are. Her daddy was split to pied and will give the pied gene to all his children.
> 
> The cock would definitely be split to whiteface if one of his parents was visual whiteface. If his parents were just split, he might or might not have the gene. But if he's really the father of the whiteface babies in the nest, he's got the gene.


Baby will grow pin feather in few days

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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The comments about something funny in the nestbox were for Fran.bath89, who has two pearl parents getting babies who aren't pearl. Sorry for the confusion!


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## asad393 (Aug 4, 2016)

tielfan said:


> The comments about something funny in the nestbox were for Fran.bath89, who has two pearl parents getting babies who aren't pearl. Sorry for the confusion!


Haha i was also thinking where did white face come from 😂😂😂😂

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## ninfatiel (Jul 22, 2016)

Dear asad393, try this breeder http://kirstenmunson.com/cockatiels/virtual-breeder/ and it will help you a lot. When I was new to genetics, I've spent hours tesbreeding all my birds there, untill I fully understood it.. but this breeder is an amazing tool


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## asad393 (Aug 4, 2016)

ninfatiel said:


> Dear asad393, try this breeder http://kirstenmunson.com/cockatiels/virtual-breeder/ and it will help you a lot. When I was new to genetics, I've spent hours tesbreeding all my birds there, untill I fully understood it.. but this breeder is an amazing tool


I have android  

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## Fran.bath89 (Jun 12, 2016)

That's the funny thing they were the only pair I had when they had chicks it was after the chicks hatched that the new birds went in the aviary. God knows what's going on with my birds! Goes to show all birds can surprise you by throwing out a mixed bag of babies! I can't wait to see what your baby looks like asad393


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## asad393 (Aug 4, 2016)

Fran.bath89 said:


> That's the funny thing they were the only pair I had when they had chicks it was after the chicks hatched that the new birds went in the aviary. God knows what's going on with my birds! Goes to show all birds can surprise you by throwing out a mixed bag of babies! I can't wait to see what your baby looks like asad393


His wings will grow pin feathers in two days as per my estimate.... 

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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

There's another genetic calculator here: http://www.gencalc.com/gen/eng_genc.php?sp=0Cock It's more complicated than the first one.


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## asad393 (Aug 4, 2016)

tielfan said:


> There's another genetic calculator here: http://www.gencalc.com/gen/eng_genc.php?sp=0Cock It's more complicated than the first one.


What is red color on the wing on the baby ? Seems blood to me ? Why its happening ? Parents are still feeding him i am noticing... 

https://youtu.be/htRDghT6eM8

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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Check to see whether it looks like the parents are plucking the baby's feathers. Unfortunately this is a common problem with cockatiels. If it's not plucking, it's possible that the baby was accidentally scratched by a parent's toenail. If it looks like they have actually attacked him, you need to remove him from the nest for his own safety.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I just noticed the video link, and I can't really tell what that is. It would be best to take the chick out of the nest temporarily and inspect its whole body, and take some good pictures of the injury. The moving camera makes it hard to see what's going on.


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## asad393 (Aug 4, 2016)

tielfan said:


> I just noticed the video link, and I can't really tell what that is. It would be best to take the chick out of the nest temporarily and inspect its whole body, and take some good pictures of the injury. The moving camera makes it hard to see what's going on.




































The photos in which he is in my hand are of today. 

The one in which he is in nestbox are of tomorrow. 

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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

That doesn't look like plucking to me. I think it's possible that he was bitten several times. Does it seem like there are bruises on the upper part of the wing?


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## asad393 (Aug 4, 2016)

tielfan said:


> That doesn't look like plucking to me. I think it's possible that he was bitten several times. Does it seem like there are bruises on the upper part of the wing?


Here are some new pics. I have applied little aloe vera over the feathers. They have done more.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If the parents are abusing the baby, you need to pull him and raise him yourself.


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## Fran.bath89 (Jun 12, 2016)

Keep a very close eye on him if they do more damage to him please pull him for hand rearing. When you've been having a look at him have you been making sure both parents are out of the nest first? They can accidentally harm the baby when they leave the nest in A panic.


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## Fran.bath89 (Jun 12, 2016)

Also I was meant to say he looks like he's a pied because of the patching colour on his wings


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## asad393 (Aug 4, 2016)

*I failed !*



tielfan said:


> That doesn't look like plucking to me. I think it's possible that he was bitten several times. Does it seem like there are bruises on the upper part of the wing?


Unfortunately the little guy could not survive. He died on 18th day. He was severely plucked by his parents as it is pretty obvious from the pictures I have attached. You can see his two flight feathers. I saw pins of feathers in the nestbox as well ! 

I was not at home as I had to leave for official work to other city otherwise I would have handfed him. 

The baby was very healthy when he was born but he was underfed by parents as well. I believe its the mom who did the damage. I saw her eating poop today as the blood she was drinking of baby is no more there ! 

The nestbox has been removed and they will be allowed to breed after approx 6 months. In the meanwhile, I am working on the hens diet now !


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

To be honest, I'd be wary of breeding a hen that has killed babies. There's no guarantee that she won't do it next time too.


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## asad393 (Aug 4, 2016)

roxy culver said:


> To be honest, I'd be wary of breeding a hen that has killed babies. There's no guarantee that she won't do it next time too.


I believe that is the reason this pair was being sold in market ! Next time chick will be handraised ! 

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## asad393 (Aug 4, 2016)

asad393 said:


> I believe that is the reason this pair was being sold in market ! Next time chick will be handraised !
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


Moreover, the pair is mating again. What should I do ? I dont want eggs to be thrown on ground ?? 

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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Putting them in separate cages would stop them from mating. Immediate hormone control techniques might stop the hen from going ahead and laying eggs even without her mate: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=32330


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## asad393 (Aug 4, 2016)

tielfan said:


> Putting them in separate cages would stop them from mating. Immediate hormone control techniques might stop the hen from going ahead and laying eggs even without her mate: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=32330


I was thinking may be they are mating because of fun. Local people saying me to sell the pair but I love my bird. Just because they are bad parents dosent make them bad birds. I am working on nutrition more and will see what hapens next time. 

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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Birds don't actually understand where babies come from, and when they mate it's always done for fun. But the more "fun" they have the higher their hormone levels will get, and the end result is babies. You need to put a stop to this if you don't want to have more babies right away.


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## asad393 (Aug 4, 2016)

Baby from 2nd clutch. As soon as the pin feathers started to grow, parents came back to their habits. I now have to find out which one did this. Baby has been pulled for handfeed this time. No more risks...









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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

I would retire this pair from breeding... not fair to the chicks to be abused by them.


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## asad393 (Aug 4, 2016)

Culprit has been found and removed from cage but can see the male.









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