# Breeding my 'Tiels...can they still be affectionate with me?



## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

Hello, I'm Dianna.

I'm fairly new to the 'Tiel world. My first cockatiel I got was when I was 18 and was just married. My first cockatiel just bit me and bit me, and there was no way to show him any sort of affection, so he just became some sort of caged animal. I ended up giving him to an Aviary, where he could fly freely. 

From there I got a baby cockatiel, that was parent-raised, and another older 'tiel, that seemed just a little crazy, but very lovable. But due to the living situation, I didn't want to cause them any more stress and ended up giving them to another aviary. 

Now I am back in the 'Tiel world. I adopted a baby tiel that was parent-raised, so he still isn't very friendly. And I also adopted 3 2 week old tiels (1 female and 2 males). I hand-raised all the babies and moved the female into a cage with the male around 8 weeks old. The other two I gave to my brother (my they rest in peace). 

The male (Rajah) has been in love with the female (Baby) since I moved them in together. At first, Rajah would try and take care of her feathers, and she would move away, even try to bite him as a warning. She would scream at me when I was in the room, and if I let them out to eat their vegetables and fruits, she would fly at me, and never want to be around him. 


Now they are 7 and 8 months old and I haven't been able to be highly interactive with them (I have a 10 month old son and a baby on the way). I have FINALLY been able to get up the money to move them into a very large cage where they have lots of toys and places to go. And they look a lot healthier, which makes me happy. 

On one hand I am happy because I have not become Baby's 'Mate', but I still miss being able to cuddle with her like I used to. 
When I go over to the cage and sit down and talk to them they hiss as if they are scared (yet they've never bitten me). I can take them out of their cage slowly and move them about, but I've never clipped their wings until recently. 

I know how much Rajah loves being bathed in warm water, so I took them both into the shower with me, and Rajah got on my hand willingly, enjoyed himself being bathed, and started to calm himself down and enjoy the water when I put him down. Baby was eager to be picked up (She doesn't like water as much), but when I tried putting her back down after her bath, (We have seats in our shower) she tried to get me to pick her back up (which I couldn't since I was washing my hair, and didn't want her near my feet since I didn't want her to get splattered by shampoo and conditioner). When I put them on the floor of the shower, they would stand on my feet. 


Once we were out, one by one I cut their wings as I read how to do, and am hoping that this will allow them to be friendlier with me. 

They still hiss at me, and seem fearful otherwise, although I've never hurt them. Their behavior is slightly confusing. 

My question is about breeding them when they're ready. They both are paired, I can see that clearly, but am I supposed to no longer have contact other than providing them with what they need, or can I start establishing a bond with them now? Also, can anyone explain their behavior in the shower to me? Thank you!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

You can have a bond with them! Just ignoring them because you want to breed them is very unfair to them. They have bonded with each other because they are the only birds around. Does she let him preen her or does she still want to be with you? 

They hiss at you in the cage because you are coming into their territory. Outside of their territory you are fine. I will warn you, when breeding they can be nasty. The sweetest handfed baby will try to take your finger off. So you need to get them used to you checking on them early on. 

What are their mutations?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

My honest recommendation would be that you not breed these birds. It sounds like you'll have your hands full with your present and future children, and you've already had to rehome several birds because you thought they'd be better off with someone else. Breeding is a big responsibility and it would be better to wait a few years for a time when you don't have so many other things on your plate.

Instead, you can focus on making friends with these birds. Having friendly pets will be good for them, for you, and for your children when they get old enough to interact with birds. If the birds are nice and tame before they start breeding (a long time from now) they will stay tame and friendly while they're breeding, at least when they're not inside the nestbox. Here are some threads on taming:
http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=33824
http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=28661
http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=22073

Here's a thread on hormone control too. You may need it lol: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=32330


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

Thank you! I definitely want to focus on them now that I am able to. I've been trying to get them to get mainly used to each other, and we moved recently so I really didn't want to stress them out by trying to handle them. But I think now that they are settled into their new environment it's fine. 

Baby lets Rajah fluff up her feathers, and they cuddle every once in a while. She's very comfortable with him, so I know they've taken to each other. They were both babies when I got them and I was raising 3 (Baby and her brothers) at the same time as my son, since they were all on pretty much the same feeding schedule. lol So I am not worried about the breeding part, since I know I can take care of it. I don't want to have them breed unless they are truly ready to, there is no point of that. Now that we are in a better situation and environment, and since I have raised them both from so young, I feel much more connected to them. It would be like giving up one of my children, I just can't do it. 

I think they're both Cinnamon Pearl Pied, or Pearl Pied Cinnamon. Both look the same, besides obviously the parts that make them either male or female, like their cheeks. lol


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If you can post pictures, we can try to identify the mutations for you. Are they brother and sister, or are they unrelated?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> I think they're both Cinnamon Pearl Pied, or Pearl Pied Cinnamon. Both look the same, besides obviously the parts that make them either male or female, like their cheeks. lol


Male and female pearls look completely different when they're fully mature so if they still look the same you might actually have two girls. Pictures would help!


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Also, cheek patches do not have anything to do with gender. That's an old wive's tale.


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

The one on the left is Baby and the one on the right is Rajah. They are completely unrelated to one another.


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

It's not letting me put up the pictures I guess, so I made one of them my profile picture if that helps?


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

Hopefully this one works better. So, again...On the left is Baby and on the right is Rajah.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

The profile pic isn't big enough...do you have a photo bucket account? If so, upload them there, then copy the img code and paste it here so we can see pictures.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

They're cinnamon pearl pieds, but that makes it harder because it means it will take whichever is male longer to lose his pearls (could be up to five years). The one further from the camera looks like he's loosing his pearls so he could be male.

But a side note here, these two should not be bred to each other. They are like to like and that causes weaker babies, smaller babies, and more DIS eggs. Because bother are pearl, their babies could also end up with bald spots behind the head which is undesirable. They're beautiful though!


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

I posted them again. lol, I hope you were able to see. I had to read through the "how to" guide for newbies. 
That's interesting to read about their mutations being so weak when it comes to breeding...Do you think that I should just leave them be? I don't want to split them up because they have become so close, but how do I keep them from breeding, or if I can't is there a way for me to still raise the babies instead of them? 

Besides balding, is there another reason they would be considered weaker breeders, such as more cases of death among their offspring?

I'm just curious, but ultimately I want them to be happy and not get hurt somehow.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Its because they're the same mutation...breeding birds of the same visual mutation together is not recommended. You'll have more babies die in the eggs (dead in shell), more babies tend to not make it to maturity. The whole point of breeding tiels (or any animal for that matter) is to further the species and add to it. By breeding these two together, you would be undoing years of work other breeders have been putting into to breed proper birds together. Bald spots are one of the things breeders have been working to breed out of tiels, these two birds very well could produce babies with said spots, which is would be very bad (pearl causes thinning behind the crest so two pearls could make some very thin crested babies.) 

They can be prevented from breeding, guidelines found here http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=32330 If this doesn't work (because sometimes it doesn't) 24hrs of light might. If that doesn't work, placing them in cages next to each other will. This is just not a pair that you want to breed together, no matter how bonded they are. 

As to gender, how do they act? Do they whistle tunes, beak bang, do heart wings? Those are all signs of being male.


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

Oh, okay.

Rajah likes to hang upside-down from his swing like a bat a lot, he's the one who calls out and speaks, where-as Baby is mostly quiet unless they're both in the shower, or are looking for each other outside of the cage. Rajah also seems a lot more active than Baby as well. Unless Baby is cleaning her feathers, or leaning forward at something, she doesn't lift her wings even slightly from her body, but I have seen Rajah do that a lot... Neither of them have every really tried to Whistle, or copy tunes, but that's mainly because no sound really repeats in our house like a telephone ring or anything. But, yeah, Rajah displays for everyone every once in a while. But he's the only one I ever hear "talk". lol I hope that made sense?


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

It sounds like you've got 2 girls.


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

I was just reading on the differences in behavior between a male and a female, and Rajah tends to wag his tail a lot. It says they'll do that if their hormones get stimulated... But I also read somewhere else it just means they're happy/content/excited?

Which one is most accurate?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

What do you mean by wag his tail? Masturbating?


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

No, like he'll be walking around (outside of his cage) and then randomly start moving his tail back and forth, like he's wagging it.


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWxPM3iV_Uk 
It looks like that, except he is on our carpet and will walk around and start shaking it.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

In that video the tiel is attempting to masturbate with the person's hand, he's just not figuring it out. Hens can masturbate like males if there are no males around and two hens can mate (which could result in both hens laying clutches.) If you mean fanning his tail out as he walks that's not an indication of gender. Do you know what their parents mutations were?


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## Fredandiris (Nov 27, 2012)

What do you mean by wagging the tail? Like when the tail goes side to side quickly? Both my male and female do that.


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

Sadly I don't... =[ I remember seeing Rajah's parents briefly, but 'he' and his siblings were in a different cage when I picked 'him' up. And Baby and her brothers were from someone who drove down here from Northern New Mexico, who's new owners didn't show up so I ended up buying them off of her and raising them myself (they were about 2-3 weeks old at the time). So I never got to see her parents. =/


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

Fredanderis, my husband said he just saw him do it today...He said he saw Rajah lean forward, fan out his tail and do like a shake type deal??? So not side to side, but it was fanned out and and shaking?


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Mating is not an indication of sex. Girls can pretend mate like boys and vice versa.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I don't know if this has been suggested before, but if you want to be sure of the sexes you can get them DNA'd.


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

tielfan said:


> I don't know if this has been suggested before, but if you want to be sure of the sexes you can get them DNA'd.


That is exactly what I was planning to do. =] I was even looking up the costs, etc. It seems at this point that is the best way I will be able to determine. lol


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The cheapest way to do it is to get a free sample card from an online lab, collect the sample yourself, and mail it to the lab. If you use a blood sample from a toenail it costs about $20 per bird. If you go through a vet they'll charge you an arm and a leg.


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

Would the free sample only work from their blood, or would I be able to send in one of their feathers as well...The place I was looking at charged 30 dollars I think for that per bird, which still sounds reasonable. =]


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

You can have a bird DNA'd using feathers, but the feathers have to be plucked from the bird's breast - molted feathers don't work. Feather DNA tends to cost a little more than blood testing. Plucking the feathers doesn't bother the bird (most of them don't even twitch) but it tends to freak out the tender-hearted human who has to do the plucking.

There are several online labs. Avian Biotech seems to be the best known http://www.avianbiotech.com/ 

I use the lab at http://www.petdnaservicesaz.com/ because they're local/regional and the bird club is enthusiastic about supporting local bird people. I once shared a table with the owner at a bird mart. It looks like this lab charges $20 for either blood testing or feather testing, no price difference.


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