# Bright red veins still in eggs?



## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

How can eggs that appear DIS have bright red veins still inside when candled?? I have 3 eggs left in this clutch. One I'm sure is not going anywhere as over half of it appears yellow/yolk. The other two which I had given up for DIS because they have darkened up and are getting something akin to smudge patterns on them, still have bright red veins inside??? I was just about ready to toss these eggs and close up shop. Is it possible these two are still viable??? I would feel awful to toss out a couple of eggs that just look different but would hatch. Any ideas anyone?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

If DIS there would be a uniform darkening overall of the shell. If just a section then as the baby turned to pip it may have nicked a vein that bled under the shell.

If the DIS was recent, say in the last 24 hrs. the veins can still show red....after that they appear rust colored. BUT if alive you should see some movement.

There is something called a float test to check if an egg is alive. Put warm water in a bowl (104 degrees) and place the egg in the water. Watch the egg for movement. The MAX time in the water is 30-45 seconds so that the chick doesn't aspirate on excess fluids.


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## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

There are no pip marks yet on these eggs. The darkening of the egg shell has been longer than 24 hours.. probably more like 4 to 5 days. It is definitely a bright red, not rust. It is nap time for the grandsons so as soon as they are asleep.. I'm trying this float test. I think I've seen this talked about before. The egg should sit on top of the water if it's fertile, right? Sink if not? When you say movement, do you mean the egg will actually roll around on top of the water if there is movement inside?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes the egg would bob occasionally like a float on a fishing line.


Just a random thought....do either of the parents have contact with newspaper? If so it could be the ink rubbing off of them and staining the eggs.

Bright red means that there is blood flow...PLUS the egg would also maintain some if it's own heat.

Have you candled to see if the air cell has tilted off lower to one side? I have had chicks that got in the hatch position, with no pop mark, and once they started to pip, zipped around the egg in 30 sec.


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## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

I use newspaper for liner. Not in the nest box though. The eggs are nice and warm. There is a slight tilt of the air sac in one egg. Someone else was saying how they had baby ninjas kicking out of their shells. lol Mine usually take like 2 days from when I see the first pip mark. I have done a couple assisted hatches too as the pip marks those times started going vertical and non horizontal. One was unsuccesful but the other one I'm looking at right now.


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## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

Okay.. now I'm really confused! All 3 eggs float and slowly moved to the side of the dish. Even the one that looks half filled with yolk. This doesn't make any sense.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

The slight tilt with the one egg means that the baby has turned in the egg. 3/4 of the development time the embryo is facing to the bottom of the egg. 2-3 days prior to actual hatch it has to turn towards the air cell end of the egg. Since you have a chick in the piping position when candled from the air cell side you should see some movement. And many times when the egg is cupped in your hand you might feel the chick thumping/kicking in the egg.....or hear it vocalize.

Erratic fluctuation in temperature can cause abnormal pip marks. Also heat and cool affects hatch times. If the environment is cold this can delay hatch for 1-3 days. If the environment is warm it can accelerate hatch by 1-2 days.

Humidity plays a role too. If humidity is too low it can result in dehydration, which can lead to kidney failure to the embryo. And also stunting can occur in the egg from improper calcium metabolism.

Excessive humidity results in small air cells, and the chick is bloated from excess water, which can result in a larger navel opening and exposed yolk sacs.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*All 3 eggs float and slowly moved to the side of the dish.*
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Are you seeing little ripples in the water as they move? As to the ones you see definite movement, place them on a smooth flat surface and see if they rock or move to confirm movement.


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## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

With previous eggs I have felt, seen and heard the chick. I get too cautious to hold the eggs for too long as I don't want them to chill. We have had big fluctuations in temperatures lately between night and day, but we have been running heat in the house to offset that. As for humidity, I do not have a working humidity gauge, but being in Vermont I am thinking if anything the humidity is low. I have yet to have more than 2 hatch out of a clutch and I'm really trying to figure this out.


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## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

No, I didn't see any ripples. You said not to leave them in for too long. How long can eggs this close to hatching be left out without causing problems? This clutch I decided to just let things be, so I didn't number them. I'm paying for it now. The eggs were laid on 10/13, 15, 17, 19, 21. I was thinking the first two I already had issues with were the first two laid, however this might not be the case. Mom and dad sat tight since the laying of egg 1. They started right in with shifts and everything.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Once the air cell is tilted they can be out from under the parents and at room temp for a couple hours. I have noticed that the parents will shove the egg that is closest to hatch out away from the clutch to cool down. it is this cool down time that the chick moves to stimulate warmth and when piping a stronger pip.


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## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

Now see I have never seen an egg moved as it gets closer to hatching. And I have never seen them discard an egg if it was DIS. I have never had an infertile egg in their clutches. I guess I'll just leave them for what.. another week maybe and see what happens.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

If they are not moving the egg out for a couple hours for the cool down that could be part of the problem with the eggs not hatching. Normally a pair will look like it kicked one egg off to the side . I learned by experience to never put this egg back in the clutch, but wait til the pair drew it back under them after a few hours. When I did put it back in it was the ones that failed to hatch. When opened the yolk was not fully out of the body.


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