# New Owner - Old Cockatiels



## pwausc1 (Dec 20, 2011)

Hi, guys.

I have been in a real bind lately with one of my cockatiels. The trouble maker is Piglet, about a 13 year old male bird, who doesn't trust hands at all. I've been living with him for about 2 months now, and he only does activities on his say. For example, I tried feeding him treats (on the cage and from my hand), and doesn't seem to eat them. I've tried clicker training and he is completely scared of the stick. When I remove food bowls and water slowly from the cage, he opens his beak and hisses at me sometimes. A couple of times I've tried to get him on my hand, but he only flies away and goes back to the cage. If he's tired from the exercise, he'll land on my hand, but then he will quickly hop back on to his cage.

I make sure Piglet and his companion, Skittles, a 15 year old female bird, get at least 10 hours of sleep every night. I put a blanket around the cage so cold air and light won't give them night terrors accidentally. Despite this predicament, I absolutely love these birds and spend at least 5 hours of the day with them. By that, I mean having the cage in my room about 5 feet away from me and interact with them. Any time I get up out of my chair or leave the room, I talk to the birds and whistle at them. Surprisingly, because of this, Skittles has took the liking to me. She will talk to me, take food from my hand, play with me, hop on my shoulder, groom me, and all the other fun stuff.

All I know about Piglet is the previous owners didn't treat him well, which is why he is so aggressive and scared of people. I completely understand that 2 months is not that much time for a pet to bond with a human. I just want to train my birds correctly and try to make both of them as happy as I am. I'm just stuck on how to train Piglet if I can't touch him, feed him, or interact with him like I could with Skittles.

I never want to force him to do something I wouldn't want him to do and scare him to a farther degree. If I play with Skittles to show that being touched is a good thing, he will give me the stink eye and try to get Skittles back to the cage (since he is the Alpha Male). He'll fly over my head, sometimes land on it, scream at me, and then bite her feathers when she gets back to the cage. I ignore his screaming because I don't want to reinforce his behavior, but am I making the situation worse by making him upset with jealousy?

I apologize about how long my post is, but I wanted to include all the details about my situation. Any feedback or criticism is appreciated and I look forward to learning more about training these birds. Thank you for reading this.

Sincerely,

Pat


----------



## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

it does sound like he is jealous of skittles getting attention. could you work with them in different rooms away from eachother? it might help with the jealousy with him. i would also try giving 12 hours sleep to see if this helps his attitude. 12 hours should be good to lower any hormones that could possibly be playing up


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Have the two birds been together for a long time? If they have, he might be worried that you're trying to steal his mate rather than being jealous because you're paying attention to Skittles and not to him. 

You could play with Skittles while he is in the cage so he can't attack anyone, and have a "cool down" period where you don't pay attention to Skittles for a little while, just before you let him out or put her in the cage with him, so he'll have time to forget that he's mad at the two of you. He'll get used to seeing the two of you together this way and will always be reunited with her afterward, and after a while it shouldn't bother him any more. He might even decide that he wants some of what she's getting.

It sounds like you're generally doing the right thing with him and it's just going to take time for him to get used to you. Don't bother with clicker training though until you can deliver a treat to him and he will eat it promptly. Positive reinforcement depends on being able to deliver rewards for desirable behavior and right now you can't do that. But do keep offering him treats (either from your hand or letting him see you drop treats in the cage or some other convenient location). Let him see Skittles taking treats from you when he's not likely to attack anyone over it. When he's comfortable enough to eat the treats right away, then you can start clicker training if you want to.


----------



## pwausc1 (Dec 20, 2011)

Hi DallyTsuka and tielfan,

Thank you so much for your replies! I do try to work with Skittles in a different room, but he immediately screams very loudly when I take her out of the room. Eventually, he does calm down until I bring her back in the room...he goes back to his normal self...

Like tielfan pointed out, they've been together for a while (over 5 years from what I know) and I'm guessing he's worried that I might hurt her. Maybe I should give her less attention until Piglet is more comfortable with me? Should I try putting Skittles in the cage instead while I work with Piglet??? Maybe to reassure him that she is safe? This is just a thought.

I'm going to be giving them more sleep just to see if they act differently. If they do, I'll be surprised and happy! Do you think I should hold some millet spray between my fingers inside the cage and let him get use to seeing my hand as a "good thing" that offers treats? 

I've had one very rare case with Piglet where I sat next to the cage and put some bird seed in front of me. He climbed down from the cage and wobbled towards me and checked me out (no...not in that way lol). He walked all the way around me, nibbled at my jeans and then went straight to the food. I then put some seed on top of my jeans and he climbed on top of me. I was shocked, but I stayed completely still the whole time. The only issue is...it's hard to replicate this incident. 

Another question I have is, when is the best time to train with cockatiels? My birds are almost like owls, where they love to stay up to about 10PM. I put them to bed around 9PM tonight, even though they weren't too happy about that. Is this still too late for them??? 

I honestly don't care about making them do tricks or anything fancy. I just want them to be happy and comfortable with me. I'm a very patient person and I am very pleased to try the advice you have given me. Thanks again for the replies! 

Sincerely,

Pat


----------



## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i cover mine at 8 pm (9 or 10 on weekends) but uncover them no earlier than 9, but i normally uncover them around 10 am. mine get longer hours because theyre younger, but i think 12 hours will be ok with yours. it will take a few weeks to show much difference if it will show a difference.

if you have more time to spend with them in the afternoon, try then, or morning. try to make it a routine. it might help.

holding the millet in your hands is a good idea. it would give them positive reinforcement that your hands are good


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> I do try to work with Skittles in a different room, but he immediately screams very loudly when I take her out of the room. Eventually, he does calm down until I bring her back in the room...he goes back to his normal self...


It might be better to work with her in the same room so they don't get worried about each other and call back and forth. Just work with her while he's in the cage so he can't attack anyone. He needs to learn that nothing bad happens when you handle Skittles - she won't get hurt and he won't lose her - so there's no reason for him to get upset about it. 

When you're working with Piglet you can decide whether to put Skittles in the cage or let her be out with the two of you. Whatever works best.

Whistling can be helpful. In February I was given four untame cockatiels. Two of them have become fairly tame since then but the other two still want nothing to do with me except for one thing: whistling is irresistible. They hiss at me when I approach but if I start whistling they'll be whistling back in less than 30 seconds.



> Do you think I should hold some millet spray between my fingers inside the cage and let him get use to seeing my hand as a "good thing" that offers treats?


Absolutely, and here's a way to up the ante: take all food out of the cage just before you put the birds to bed at night (leave the water in). In the morning, the first food available to them will be a piece of millet spray that you're holding in your hand. I do this sometimes with my wild ones, and it's still the only time they'll take food from me. We're not trying to starve them into submission so if the birds won't take the millet don't wait for an unreasonable amount of time before you put the food cup back in the cage. To keep things fair, I don't eat my breakfast either until the birds have had something to eat.


----------



## pwausc1 (Dec 20, 2011)

Wow! You guys are really helpful! Thank you!!!  I'm going to gradually move back to 8PM and see what happens with their attitude. 

With the whistling, I just started to learn how to whistle because of the birds. I'm not that good at it, but I'm slowly progressing. I know Piglet loves to whistle if there is someone else who knows how to whistle well...I better start learning quick!

I'm going to try to work with Piglet with Skittles in and out of the cage and see what Piglet likes best. If Skittles doesn't like being in the cage that long, I'll keep the sessions short to about 10 minutes or so. 

I'm really excited in trying the technique with the Millet when they first wake up because I haven't found his "favorite" treat yet. Hopefully, this will be it! Lovely tip!

Both of you have been more than helpful to me and I greatly appreciate it! Thanks for all the tips! I'll keep you guys updated over the week. If I run into more problems, I'm pretty sure I know where to ask. 

Sincerely,

Pat


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Do they like sunflower seeds? It's OK to not put sunflower seeds in the food bowl and instead use them as treats.


----------



## pwausc1 (Dec 20, 2011)

They sometimes eat the sunflower seeds from the bird mix, but their favorite seed is this light tan "ball" shaped seed. Not sure what it is, but they munch on them like crazy!

The good news is I got some millet for the birds today and they love it! Piglet was hesitant at first, but I let Skittles eat first to show him it was "okay" to eat it. Once he started, he couldn't stop! He then went into his cage for a little bit and I hung the millet again near the entrance. He tried to get around my hand, but couldn't really escape. Obviously, I didn't move and in about 5 minutes, he took another bite of the millet.

This millet works like a charm!!!  I'm so happy I found a treat for both of them and now, I can give Piglet more attention! I'm just very relieved that I found something for Piglet to nibble on.  

What do you guys recommend for the amount of millet to feed 2 cockatiels in 1 day?


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The ball-shaped seed is probably hemp. It's quite nutritious and Vlad is a big fan of it. You might be able to buy bags of just hemp seed if you have any local pet shops or feed stores that cater to bird owners more than the typical big-box pet store does. You can also buy it online but make sure that it's still in the shell because a shelled version is sold for humans to eat. Also make sure it's pet quality or human quality and not wild bird quality which has much lower standards for contaminants like mold.

Millet is very nutritious too. As long as your birds are also eating other things like veggies and pellets/nutriberries, there's really no limit to how much millet they can have in a day. If you want it to be a special "reward for playing with the human" food then don't hang it up for them to munch whenever they want, and instead keep it for when they're interacting with you.


----------



## pwausc1 (Dec 20, 2011)

I'll look into the hemp seed and see if I can get that for a treat as well. I will definitely use the millet spray as an "interaction" treat. Right now, I'm going to feed Piglet and Skittles millet spray as a fun food. Then, in a couple of days, I'm going to involve the millet spray with the birds getting on my finger. 

Do you think that's too much of a big step? Should I work on something easier than that? 

Since you mentioned feeding the cockatiels veggies, I decided to warm up some non-salted broccoli and corn. Surprisingly, they were a big fan of the corn, but not the broccoli. I added a little seed mixture with the broccoli so they would touch and get a small taste of the veggie and hopefully one day like it. 

It was absolutely hilarious when the birds got their beaks wet and sloppy with corn and then ate the seed mixed with the broccoli. It was priceless!!!  Their beaks were covered in seeds and shells! I was trying to hold back my laughter to keep Piglet from getting scared. :lol: Did this ever happen to any of you guys? :blush:

Afterwards, I brought their food cups back with the regular seed mix and they dug in like there was no tomorrow. They were softly talking back to each other while eating, which was a touching moment for me. 

I read in some internet articles that grit/gravel is not healthy for cockatiels, but my birds have been eating it for years, before I have ever gotten them. It's not like they feast on it, but take small nibbles of it every once in a while. What do you guys recommend please?

I would love to hear some experiences from other people about their cockatiels eating new foods and such. I'm really loving these pets and would like to hear more about them.  

Thanks for everything and these tips are turning out great! Thanks a million!!!


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> in a couple of days, I'm going to involve the millet spray with the birds getting on my finger. Do you think that's too much of a big step? Should I work on something easier than that?


Try it and let the birds decide whether it's too big of a step. They'll be free to choose whether they're willing to get on the hand to reach the millet spray. Since you didn't force them, they won't lose any trust in you if they decide not to do it, and you'll know where things stand. 

Many cockatiels like leafy greens that are hung up in the cage so you can try that. Things like celery leaf, spinach, cilantro, dandelion leaf, carrot top, etc. When it's available you can give them clean pesticide-free lawn grass. It's a definite plus if it has unripe seed heads.

You want to hear about messy beaks? How about velociraptor Shodu devouring her prey (which is actually a chard stem):










Grit is controversial. At least 90% of the advice you'll see on the internet says "don't" but honestly I think this is a bandwagon that the public has jumped on and eventually opinion will swing back to something more reasonable. There are reputable people who think grit is beneficial if you use it sensibly, which means not providing large amounts that a mineral-deficient bird could gorge on and possibly impact its crop. Here are some pro-grit links. The first three are on the website of the World Parrot Trust, a respected conservation organization:

Rosemary Low, well known ornithologist/parrot expert: http://www.parrots.org/pdfs/all_abo...n/Minerals and Grit - of Vital Importance.pdf 

EB Cravens, well known proponent of natural birdkeeping: http://www.parrots.org/pdfs/all_abo...trition/Views on Mineral Grit for Parrots.pdf

Cravens again: http://www.parrots.org/index.php/forumsandexperts/answers/ask_an_expert1/

A veterinarian: http://web.archive.org/web/20100727122208/http://www.petpublishing.com/birdtimes/articles/grit.shtml

An Australian birdkeeper. The Aussies are less inclined to jump on the anti-grit bandwagon than the rest of the world: http://web.archive.org/web/20091230094010/http://eclectusparrots.net/grit.html

I have some tips on encouraging birds to eat new foods at http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/nutrition-conversion.html Also, if your birds are not currently eating pellets you should encourage them to learn. The easiest way is to offer Nutriberries, which are nutritionally equivalent to pellets but look like seed balls. Most cockatiels love them. There's contact information for the company at http://www.lafebercares.com/contact.html where you can request free samples. Be sure to tell them you have cockatiels so they'll send you the right size.

Edited to add: most people on this forum don't offer grit but I do, except for when there are babies in the nest. Babies are more at risk for crop impaction because they are so small, so I don't want the parent birds feeding them grit. I also provide my adult birds with small amounts of bird charcoal. These are things that cockatiels consume in the wild, and who am I to argue with Mother Nature. See http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=16205


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I'm glad to see someone who shows both sides of the opinion instead of just screaming NO (or, in this case, yes)! I don't offer my birds grit but just because it is very controversial and i don't think it is neccesary for their digestion. I don't think it is bad...but just in case, i don't give it to them.


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

There are a lot of grey areas in birdkeeping and grit is one of them. With grey areas, it's best to consider all sides of the issue and then choose the course that seems best to you. It doesn't make sense to say "you have to do it this way" when no one really knows what the best way is.


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Majority if the time on here though, i see people actually getting upset over things like this! I know some people feel attacked when someone is like "TAKE THE GRIT OUT, YOUR BIRD DOESN'T NEED IT!" i'm so glad to see something different...and less demanding! LOL


----------



## pwausc1 (Dec 20, 2011)

Hey, guys!!!!

I apologize for not updating you guys in the past month or so. I've been making GREAT results with my birds!!!  Thanks to your suggestions, research, and patience, I've been able to bond a lot better with Skittles and especially Piglet! 

Piglet is still scared of my hands, but he doesn't hiss at me anymore when I replace the food and water in the cage. He is able to eat corn and cheerios from my 2 fingers, but he is not comfortable eating from my palm. I have no issue with that since I'm sooooo pleased with his results!!! 

I've been using some psychological tactics on Piglet to get him to come to me more often. Because he doesn't like Skittles getting too much attention from me, he will squawk at her a little bit and then fly to my shoulder (where she is perching). I let both of them sit there and preen while I play on the computer or watch television. Then, to get them off, I simply lean towards the cage and they climb on to it with no difficulty. 

I've been thinking recently to build a bird playground of some sort, where there are multiple toys and obstacles to play/climb. Also, I thought it would be cool if I could hang a perch near my sliding glass doors for them to relax and stare out the window. Any thoughts on this?

What I also find humorous about Piglet is usually when I offer him my finger to step up to (on the cage), 60% of the time he runs away (which I'm not upset about). But, if for some reason he gets scared and flies to the ground, I will walk to him calmly and offer my finger to him. Immediately, he will lift up one foot as if he's saying, "Please pick me up...if you want, this can count as a high five, too." So, is he saying he trusts me only in situations where he needs help? I'm just trying to read and understand Piglet better.

With Skittles, I've found better spots to rub/scratch her on her head and neck. If I hit the right spots, she'll chirp very softly in approval and close her eyes. Again, this is where Piglet gets jealous lol. I've been rewarding both of them as well when they go into their cage at night. I give them a couple cheerios and a small piece of cracker for them to nibble on through the cage bars. I'm really pleased with how my birds are turning out and I want to thank all of you for your help. Not to mention, the stories/pictures you've shared as well. I'm going to look around online if I can order some pellets sometime soon and see how that turns out.

Anyways, enough of my blabbering.  I'll keep you all updated!  Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sincerely,

Pat


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Congratulations on the progress! It seems to me that some hand-shy birds fall into a habit where running away from a hand is sort of an automatic reaction. Until the moment they get into a situation that they don't like - then the hand is their good buddy that will take them back to where they want to be!

Play gyms and perches away from the cage are fine. I don't remember if your birds are flighted or not, but if you're going to set them up to look out the window you want to take precautions so they won't get hurt if they decide to try and fly through the glass. It can be very helpful to put the bird on your finger and hold it next to the glass so the bird can figure out that it's a solid surface. If you have blinds on the window/door, you can keep the blinds down with the slats open so that looking through the window is sort of like looking through cage bars.


----------

