# Sunny vomited!!



## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

The vet is closed until tuesday and Sunny just started vomiting..its happened 4 or 5 times in a row!! What do i do?


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

ok, set up an appointment, is there any vet you can get to now??

feed him some ginger if he will eat it. keep him warm and make sure you weigh him.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

No where that will see birds! I am trying to kep him warm, he seems ok right now. Hes playing but i am freaking out!


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

when he vomited, was it seed? fluid? white chunks? i know it sounds gross but depending on what it was there might be some ideas of what we can do for now until you get him in.

use ginger powder and sprinkle it on his food, ginger is great for stomach upsets.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

Just weighed him and he's down by a few grams!


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

Fluid and white chunks.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

sounds like yeast infection.

do you have apple cider vinegar? if so add a few drops to his water. its effective against yeast infections.


munch had the same thing

like this?


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

and now stringy slimy poop...


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

Yes like that!


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

I've added apple cider vinegar to his water and a small amount of ginger to his food.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

that will do until you can get to the vet on tuesday 

you will likely see some odd poops with a yeast infection

the ACV will make his crop acidic so the yeast wont be able to form as well and will break up in the crop. it worked for Munch, it should work for Sunny too.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

Thank you so much, I am so so worried about him. I'll just keep up with the ACV and water until we can get him in. 
What kind of meds did they give you for Munch? I can't see Sunny doing well with meds by syringe...


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

we used just ACV. but it would be better for you to get meds for Sunny. Most likely they will prescribe Nystatin or Diflucan.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

I'll do whatever the vet wants! Hopefully he won't fight the syringe to much!


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

its not always easy, but it will have to be done


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

I will do whatever it takes. I can't lose him!!


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

My Jerry had similar symptoms but she had e.coli. She puked a lot and she lost 3-4 grams a day for a while, had funny poop. So it can be a number of things with similar symptoms. Keep her immune system strong so she will hold on until vet appointment. Ginger is a good idea, you can add some cinnamon to that, as well. Echinacea tea gives an immune system boost to the birds, so a bit of that would support her, too.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Oh, you should also keep smearing her droppings to see if there is any undigested seed. If she has something affecting her digestive system like AGY or PDD, it is a symptom. Even though it is not exclusive to those, it will give an idea to eliminate some other stuff. Don't panic, with the support you provide, she will make it to the vet and get better


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Does your vet have any kind of after hours number to at least reach them on the phone? You're doing all the right things for now, but it would obviously be ideal if you could get a referral from them somehow. Lots of good thoughts coming your way!


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## Philiko (May 16, 2012)

Oh, poor Sunny! I hope he gets better really quickly.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

No after hours number at all, when you call and they are closed it just says to call the"emergency" vet clinic in the city and they don't deal with birds at all . 
He's calm, warm, he's been drinking and eating. He vomited once more but this time it looked more like regurgitation according to hubby. We will just make sure we keep doing the same until we can get him in to the vet. 
Please keeps your fingers crossed for us!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Lots of fingers crossed here! It sounds like he's pretty stable for now. Next time you're at the vet, it might be a good idea to ask them what you should do after hours in the future, since the emergency clinic can't help you. That's definitely an oversight on their part.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

We asked when we took him for a general check up and they didn't have an answer! Honestly in the area I live I don't think I would reccomend a bird as a pet simply because it's hard to get good care for them.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

That really sucks.  You're a great birdie mom, though, even in really difficult circumstances.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

Thanks, it's nice to hear that because right now I don't feel like it!
I am just keeping my fingers crossed that the vet is open tomorrow (it's a civic holiday here so who knows).


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

Small update: Sunny is currently sleeping and warm. He did eat and drink a little a few times. He has not vomited since around 6pm and its now 9:40pm.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

That's a really good sign. Glad he's able to get some rest.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

I am so happy that he is being calm and so good. He's still being super good natured, I just hope he's still like this tomorrow! and keeping my fingers crossed that the vet is open tomorrow!


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## vampiric_conure (Jul 8, 2012)

Yikes! What a scare! Glad he's stabilized for now  And lets hope the vet is open tomorrow **Fingers and tail feathers crossed**


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I hope you can get some rest too. Remember, you have to take care of yourself so that you can take care of him. I know it's tough when they're sick. Sending you hugs and beakie kisses from me and my birds.


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## SoraRyuuzaki (Jul 16, 2012)

I hope he gets better


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

How is Sunny doing today? Sending good thoughts to you and Sunny.


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## JaimeS (Nov 28, 2011)

I just read your thread and I am sending good thoughts to you and Sunnny. (((hugs)))


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

He's pretty quiet and sleepy. He just ate a bit of millet and then immediately regurgitated it! He had some droppings stuck to his vent. I've weighed him and he has lost a bit more weight. The vet is closed today so we can't get him looked at until tomorrow. I am starting to panic although I'm trying my best not too.


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

SunnyandChickie said:


> He's pretty quiet and sleepy. He just ate a bit of millet and then immediately regurgitated it! He had some droppings stuck to his vent. I've weighed him and he has lost a bit more weight. The vet is closed today so we can't get him looked at until tomorrow. I am starting to panic although I'm trying my best not too.


He will pick up on your panic, so try your best to stay calm. Are you still doing the ACV?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Maybe try some warm soft food, like oatmeal or brown rice. It might be easier on his system than seed. I would also keep doing the ACV.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

its hard not to panic, but just make sure hes eating, feed him his favourite foods and keep him warm, tomorrow will come soon enough  too bad today is a holiday for us Canadians, eh?


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

meaggiedear said:


> He will pick up on your panic, so try your best to stay calm. Are you still doing the ACV?


I'm alot calmer now . We are still doing the ACV, we will continue to do it until we figure out what is going on after he sees the vet.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

enigma731 said:


> Maybe try some warm soft food, like oatmeal or brown rice. It might be easier on his system than seed. I would also keep doing the ACV.


I took him out and fed him some mashed sweet potato/carrot and some softened pellets. He ate them over an hour ago and he seems to be keeping them down


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

DallyTsuka said:


> its hard not to panic, but just make sure hes eating, feed him his favourite foods and keep him warm, tomorrow will come soon enough  too bad today is a holiday for us Canadians, eh?


Right now it sure is too bad, darn holiday at the wrong time. The reason I've been so panicy is Chickie got sick on a long weekend and that didn't end well.

On the upside he is currently being a bit more active, he's sitting on his perch, singing and talking to his feet.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i am wondering if the stress of losing his companion caused stress to bring out a yeast infection, since yeast infections are often caused by stress.


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## Jessica E (Aug 4, 2010)

I hope your boy is ok. Sending good thoughts your way

Sent from my ADR8995 using Tapatalk 2


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

DallyTsuka said:


> i am wondering if the stress of losing his companion caused stress to bring out a yeast infection, since yeast infections are often caused by stress.


Good thought. 

I'm glad he is doing better.  I hope he keeps it up.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

meaggiedear said:


> Good thought.
> 
> I'm glad he is doing better.  I hope he keeps it up.



That's what I was thinking too. But he seemed to adjust so well! Back to the vet for him tomorrow and hope that we get a good answer from her!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Well, the positive side of having clear symptoms like this is that it should lead to an easier diagnosis than something vague like weight loss alone. But I know it's scary. Hopefully the vet can get him fixed up right away.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

So another update on Sunny:

He's had a relaxing day. Drank, ate a little from his dish, napped a few times, sang for a little while, had some more sweet potato/carrot and pellet mash and now he's just hanging out!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Sounds like he is holding his own! Has he been able to keep the mash down?


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

He sure has! It seems that seeds are his issue right now. Hubby gave him a small amount of millet this morning and he immediately regurgitated it! So for now he'll only be getting mash and pellets, if it works I'm happy!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Maybe hard food is really tough to keep down if his crop is inflamed. I'm glad you found something he can eat for now.


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## fuzzyfrogs (Jul 31, 2012)

Good luck with Sunny! Sending you and Sunny good thoughts! ♥


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

good luck at the vets today! i hope everything goes well!


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

DallyTsuka said:


> good luck at the vets today! i hope everything goes well!



Thanks . I'm super nervous, hubs is taking him alone because I couldn't leave work  but I wrote him a huge note of things to talk to the vet about. I should know more after about 11am mst.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

Ok Hubs is at the vet with Sunny right now. Sunny is having blood work, X-ray, gram stain and who knows what else. The vet currently wants to give Sunny a broad spectrum antibiotic but won't that make the yeast worse??


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

just see what the vet says, remember we cant see your bird and can only use an educated guess at what is wrong, and antibiotics are fine, as long as you follow up with probiotics afterwards.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

SunnyandChickie said:


> Ok Hubs is at the vet with Sunny right now. Sunny is having blood work, X-ray, gram stain and who knows what else. The vet currently wants to give Sunny a broad spectrum antibiotic but won't that make the yeast worse??


Well, these symptoms could be caused by yeast or bacteria. The gram stain should show which one it is, so if the vet thinks a broad spectrum is best, then they probably have a reason from what they saw on that slide. You might also have him discuss the possibility of a crop swab with the vet, but it sounds like they're doing all the right things.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

She wants us to give him that until results come in as it takes about 48 hours for them to come in..ugh I hate not being there. 
I know you guys aren't vets but I just needed an opinion!


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

The vet isn't a certified avian vet thus my hesitation (she just enjoys birds and talks to avian vets about what she sees), there is not a single avian bet in my area that is certified...ugh this is frustrating!


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

as long as she is doing things right and seems knowledgeable i think its ok here. the vet sounds like she is doing the right thing, and if she consults with avians then i think she is good.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

So Sunny is at home with hubs, from the X-ray his tummy looks a little inflamed but the vet thinks the acv is what helped him stop vomiting so much and advised us to continue with it. We will have results tomorrow as everything got out to the lab on time and the vet has decided that we should wait for the antibiotic until tomorrow depending on results. She also let hubs know that it looks like his vitamin a levels look like they are coming up! 
Thanks everyone for the advice and good wishes! I will let you all know what the results are tomorrow.


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## Clair (Jul 31, 2012)

I'm glad Sunny is home. Baby bird xrays are so traumatizing.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i am glad to hear things went well! fingers crossed for good results!


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

Thank you! I can't wait for results!


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

seems like you've got a really good vet even if she isn't avian certified.


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## Scribbles (Jun 28, 2012)

That's wonderful news.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

My vet isn't avian certified either, but he does a great job. It definitely sounds like yours knows what she's doing.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

It's kidney/liver issues and possibly something else...the vet is consulting with an avian vet to see what further testing should be completed and what the treatment options are. :*(


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## JaimeS (Nov 28, 2011)

Oh, I am sorry! But just remember tiels can recover from those issues. Zoey had those problems and she is healthy now. 

Sending good thoughts your way. (((hugs)))


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

Really? My vet hasn't given me any indication of what we can do as she doesn't know so it's left me rather blindsided and without info!


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## JaimeS (Nov 28, 2011)

Here is my thread about Zoey. I was given a lot of helpful advice that may be helpful. 
http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27798


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

Thank you Jaime! I'll be reading my way through that tonight once I am at home!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Is she sure the kidney/liver issues are the primary problem? Because, like in Jaime's thread, it's entirely possible for an infection to affect the kidneys and liver and therefore have those values show up as elevated. That would be my suspicion in this case, because didn't Sunny have bloodwork done pretty recently that showed his organ function was fine? It would be pretty unusual for that kind of thing to show up with this type of acute symptoms. I think it's much more likely to be an infection or a toxin causing the metabolic values to be off.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

He just had blood work yesterday! Honestly I might just make a trip to another city three hours away to see what a real avian vet can tell me! When I talked to his vet a few hours ago she told me she had no idea what to make of the results and this is what she figures! But is going to consult with an avian vet I am hoping I hear from her later today! I am so upset I can't focus on work and am actually shaky...


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry.  Can you ask her to send you the actual results? I would be really curious to know what his blood counts were.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

I'll ask when she calls me back! Hopefully they'll do it.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

It's your right to have that report. I would insist.

How does Sunny seem today?


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

He was ok this morning! He ate for hubs and I will be weighing his food we left in his cage this morning and see what he ate during the day. I will be feeding him fresh food again when I am home from work. I weighed him this morning and he's weight was the same as yesterday.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

That sounds promising.  how do his droppings look? Are the urates white and normal texture?


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

They look white to hubby and I. I will need to see about the texture once I get home.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

thing with infections (AGY is one i know of) is that they can go systematic and affect body organs as well. with munch's AGY her droppings indicated kidney problems. other infections can be the cause, but what i am getting at is infections can become systematic


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

SunnyandChickie said:


> They look white to hubby and I. I will need to see about the texture once I get home.


Can you post some dropping pics when you get home? I know it's gross, but it might help us give you some ideas for your vet.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

It doesn't sound gross, in fact hubs and i pretty much inspect every poop now! 
I will once I am home in about and hour! I value all of your help and advice, you have all been super helpful with this!


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

Ok, here is the poop pic. It's the best I can do for now. Everything else is dried and he pooped in his water so that is why it looks like there is a ton of urine. I have also included a picture of my cute baby. Who has been doing really well today!!


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

the urates look ok to me, theyre white and well formed. what colour is the urine?


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

awe. he looks so handsome.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

That looks pretty good, and so does he. Obviously I'm not a vet, but I just would not expect kidney/liver problems to present like this if they were the primary issue. My impression is that vomiting due to kidney and liver problems would occur in the case of end-stage disease, when the symptoms are very severe. But you should see other things before that happens, like yellowing of the urates, yellowing of the feathers, and beak overgrowth. You haven't seen any of that. So my guess is that if the bloodwork showed elevated kidney/liver enzymes, then they are because of a systemic infection which is impacting his organ function. If this is the case, then he still has an excellent prognosis! Being sick DOES stress metabolism, so it's not unusual for ill animals to have these values show up elevated, and then go back down when the infection has been treated.

Here is what I would do if Sunny were my bird:

1) Find out what the actual bloodwork numbers were. How elevated were the kidney and liver numbers? Was there a CBC done? You _*need to know*_ if there is an elevated white blood cell count -- if there is, that means there is definitely an infection, and is the key to this whole case.

2) Ask for a fecal culture if there has not already been one done. This test will take longer than a gram stain, but it will give more specific results. Also ask specifically about the results of the gram stain.

3) If there wasn't specifically yeast or bacteria found in the gram stain, then most likely I would want to go with ACV and a broad spectrum antibiotic. This is a little bit of a risk -- You are correct that a broad spectrum could make yeast worse, but hopefully giving ACV along with the antibiotic would mitigate that risk. It's not uncommon for bacterial and yeast infections to occur together, so this treatment regimen would seem to cover the most bases. Keep in mind, this is _my opinion only_. I am not a vet. I am not trained in avian medicine. 

4) Keep weighing Sunny daily, and let him eat anything he wants to eat and can keep down. You might also give him a probiotic to help his system get back in balance.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

I spoke with the vet again a while ago and in an avian specialists opinion Sunny just has an infection. Tomorrow I will be picking up antibiotics (probably baytril). Will also get a copy of the test results! Sorry the post is so short, my laptop just quit working and my phone battery is about to die. I will post more tomorrow or later tonight if I can!

Dallytsuka - his urine is clear. 
Enigma - we are definitely going to go with what you are saying as the is the specialists opinion as well! There will be a bit more testing in Sunny's future but not for a little while.

Thank you all again! I so so appreciate the support and advice, you are all what has been keeping me sane <3


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm glad the specialist was more optimistic, and I'm sorry you're having technology problems on top of everything! I hope the antibiotics help.  Definitely look into probiotics also, since they'll be very helpful for him. Benebac and AviTech are both good, bird-specific probiotics. Some people have also had success with plain organic yogurt, and with human acidophilus capsules, although I've never used those myself.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

How is Sunny doing today? Were you able to pick up meds from the vet? I've been thinking about you and him.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

Sunny was his old self today! Playful, singing, eating like a piggy, gained 2 grams since yesterday and back to trying to herd me! 
No meds yet for him at the vets advice (the sr.vet said to wait I guess)as we are still waiting for his poop test to come back (there is only one place on Canada that does them). We will be going to get Benebac on Saturday morning because the only store in the area that sells it is closed by the time we get home from work!
Thank you for thinking of us <3


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm so glad he seems to be doing well! We're rooting for you and him.  

When you get the Benebac, make sure you get the one for birds, not the one for dogs and cats. Just so you know that they make more than one kind.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

One more thing: When you get some time and a working computer, do you think you could tell us about Sunny's cage setup, diet, and your cleaning routine? 

I really, really doubt that Sunny's illness is at all related to Chickie's except maybe in terms of her death being a stressor, but since you've had two illnesses relatively close together, we might be able to help you double check that there isn't anything environmental increasing the risk of bacterial infections. 

Please understand that I'm not saying this to question your care in any way, I just know that it can sometimes help to get an outside perspective on things. I learned so much when Roo was sick last fall and I joined this forum to get help for her.


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

We just got the call from the vet and Sunny is just fine?!?! The fecal culture came back completely clear...so in the opinion of two avian vets his issue it likely diet related and we just need to keep doing what we are currently doing. Previously Sunny would not ever eat fresh food and only ate some pellets! Now he will eat sweet potato, carrots, broccoli, cauliflower, oatmeal, eggs, peas, strawberries, basil, dill, he barely eats seeds and loves roudybush pellets and nutriberries. 
We will continue to expand his veggie repitiore and of course keep up on the pellets/nutriberries!
I'll post more about his environment once I am home 

Eta: he will be retested in 3 weeks time.


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## Clair (Jul 31, 2012)

Yay!!!:clap::thumbu:


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

Thanks Clair, I am seriously about ready to have a party because he is ok!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Yay Sunny! I'm so glad he's recovering well!


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Great news!!! I'm very happy he's okay. And what great progress you've made on his diet!


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## SunnyandChickie (Jul 9, 2012)

Thanks so much everyone! I am so darn happy, I can't wait to get home from work and cuddle him!


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## RedQueen (Feb 21, 2012)

Happy to hear Sunny is OK!


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## stevechurch2222 (Sep 25, 2011)

So glad to hear that Sunny is doing great.That is terrific news.


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## JaimeS (Nov 28, 2011)

That is awesome news, and excellent progress with his diet!


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Yay!  I'm glad he's doing much better!


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