# Angel wing?



## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

Is this the beginning of angel wing? I've had angel wing on my Sebastopol geese, but never on a 'tiel, but then this is my first time having babies too. This baby was injured in the nest box. It's wing was fine this morning, but the babies got a little rough waiting to be fed, trying to feed each other. I think it got injured again. I tried to find my paper tape, but it had been used up, so I took a piece of gauze and taped it together as a splint over the wing. 

As you notice the wing is droopy. but the other is fine. My other babies are fine too. I really think because this one was hurt right on the joint at less than a week old, it doesn't have enough strength to keep it's wing up. This poor baby is a fighter, a few times I thought I'd lose it because it just wasn't doing as well as the other babies. It is the only survivor from it's clutch I pulled it because it had been injured, but still alive. I now think it is a few more days behind the other babies as it is gaining weight daily, almost too much weight. 

I won't be able to get paper tape until Friday, since town is about 30 miles away. Will the gauze keep it stable until I can?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Ah...another goose person  I have 4 geese (3 white Chinese, and 1 brown chinese)

I have an illus below of Angel Wing.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

When I got into high school I had my own little farm. My ambition was to go to West Hills, or Cal Poly SLO, then UC Davis and study poultry science. I wanted to be the next Foster Farms. I also wanted to go to the Amazon and study both parrots and tropical cichlids. Our hard water was perfect for Malawi cichlids, and after a few months of set up I had them breeding. I was thrilled when we moved to Tennessee to find a job working for a parrot breeder/pet store owner who had studied under Herbert Axelrod. She was also C.H. Spurgeon's granddaughter, but that's another story.

I've had geese, ducks, peafowl, guineas, Chuckars, chickens, finches, doves, budgies, cockatiels, conures, pheasants, and quail. I've also had cattle, swine, goats, sheep, rabbits, guinea pigs, even mice and rats. I even had a pot bellied pig which was trained for movies, he was a character. 

Right now I just have the pair of African grays, 30 or so ringneck doves, my tiels, and budgies. Bottom feeders include button quail, a guinea pig, and some rabbits and then there is my cat. 

Anyway, I had used your picture last night to try and rig up a splint, I remembered it from when I was flipping through looking at color mutations. However without the paper tape, I'm sure it won't stay without causing pain when I go to remove the tape. The gauze came off so I need some other idea to keep me busy.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Wiw1...your life sounds amazing and it gives you lots of pleasure 

Last resort use bandaids to tape the wing in place.

Another thought. feel the length of the wing, especially at the shoulder. You want to feel that the entire bone is in tact. sometimes if there is a calcium defeciency the bone can be hollow and then fracture or break. This is ususally located at the shoulder though.

What happened to the rest of the clutch?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Snowy had angel wing on one side when she was a baby. It just appeared one day - I don't know what happened.










The vet taped it up but her feathers were so powdery that the tape always fell off after a few hours. Trying to re-tape it was difficult for me and traumatic for her, so after a few times I gave up and used "physical therapy" instead. At first I tucked the wing back into its proper position several times a day, and eventually it didn't turn outward any more but still drooped. So I changed tactics. When I touched the bottom of the wing tip she would pull it up, so I did that several times a day and eventually she started holding it in the proper position all the time.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I made the mistake of putting a baby killer in the aviary. The person I got him from didn't tell me he was a baby killer. I pulled out all the babies then all the nest boxes and moved my last pair to another aviary until I can separate him out. I am looking at one of those pre-fab hexagon aviaries to move him to so I can set up the tiels again. He completely chewed a hole in the side of the nest box within hours of putting him in. He would wait until mom and dad were out of the box and throw babies out of the box then crushed them. He killed 5 babies in an hour. 

The baby's shoulder does seem to be a little off. Is there a supplement I can give the wee ones? The parents do have cuttle bones and are fed boiled eggs w/shells at least once a week. Can I try to vet wrap his wing to his body to give it a little support?


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

Thanks tielfan. 

Your story gives me hope. The baby seems to be holding it's wing a little higher today, it hasn't started to flip, but it is being held at a droopy angle. It's hard to tell though since it's 105 today and everyone looks like they are pretty hot though. I'm still going to keep an eye on it's wing. This little guy will just have to be a house bird and not an aviary bird. I've already fallen in love with it. It was the only baby left from my pearl hen and wild type male.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

What type of bird was the baby killer?

You can also shave a little cuttlebone and use a pinch of the powder in the forumla once a day as a calcium suppliment. This may help with the bones.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I'm ashamed to say he is an African Gray. I knew better too. I thought the aviary was large enough and he wouldn't be able to get into the boxes, but he proved me wrong. He was a rescue. I had to have him out of his current housing in less than a day. I was ill prepared for him and his mate. 

A couple months ago I set up the tiels in nest boxes hoping that they would brood some button quail eggs since my incubator broke, then I had to rescue the Africans. The vet check came out ok and he and his mate were moved to the aviary since the cage they were in was too small for even one gray. I had read about larger birds and tiels coexisting in aviaries that were at least 100 sf, so I thought they would be ok long enough for babies to be born and reared for two weeks, then I'd pull them.

I don't blame him because he was doing what birds do, but I was thinking I could leave the babies another week before pulling them. He hadn't tried to get into the back mount box so I thought he was ok, then the babies in the box with the ledge in the front started hatching. They were fine for the first week then he attacked, he had found a way to get babies. The last baby was moved to the other box and it was attacked by the foster birds. I pulled all of the babies and took down the nest boxes. I moved my last pair of tiels to the dove aviary so that their babies wouldn't face the same fate. I'm ill with guilt.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

(((HUGS)))...I'm sorry for your loss. Even a parakeet can be that aggressive if in a tiels flight and go in and kill the babies. 

Have you tried Silkie chickens to incubate the quail eggs? If you can get any chickens to sit you can put the eggs under them.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I may get a couple silkie hens once I have wiring small enough to contain baby buttons. Surprisingly the button quail hens just hatched out two babies on their own today. My daughter was beside herself.  Every website I'd been to said it wouldn't happen, that I needed a foster or an incubator. I must be lucky to have two broody hens. I'll need another cock, he was so broody that he didn't leave the box and died on the nest. It's sad but I'd never even thought that they would hatch anything. 

I recant what I wrote, I wanted baby cockatiels. With my eldest son turning 18 next month and my youngest just turned 12, I needed to feel needed, lol. After working in the pet shop for a couple of years, and a private aviary two years ago, I felt I was prepared to take care of some little ones on my own and I had hoped to sell or trade them to get a pair of green cheek conures eventually. I had watched so many times hand feeding but had never been able to do it myself because I worked in the grooming shop at the time. I asked so many questions and learned all I could without handling anything, subscribed to every bird magazine I could afford. I had doves that hatched out babies, and chickens, ducks and geese, all in my care, parrots was the next step.

This year I adopted two flocks of cockatiels off of craigslist, and a flock of budgies, it was time. They have had all the good greens, seed, pellets, whatever they wanted, I would eat apples with them so they got used to me being in their flock. I made sure they were healthy and happy before setting up the boxes. 

I needed to know I could hand raise babies from egg to adult. The four I have left are cute as a button and it's amazing how quickly they are growing, even for the oldest being 3 weeks old. The tiels were to be my test birds. I even tried to make sure they had homes before hatching. I had the formula, syringes, aquarium, and all that ready before the first egg was ever laid. If the babies survived my care, then I could move to more expensive birds. I was hoping the budgies would nest, but they aren't interested in the boxes. 

I know I would have had more babies had I not adopted the grays, but the four I have are a handful, I'm not sure what I'd do with 10 all at once. I also have another nest of 4 eggs due to hatch in days. They are amazing birds. I feel blessed to have them. I tried to discipline myself to not get attached to the baby tiels, that they are livestock to be sold. This one little guy has moved into my heart though and I think he's going to stay, even if the others find homes.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

It is very rare for the button quail to incubate their eggs. Hold onto those chicks. many times parenting ability is inherited, and hopefully the next generation will also incubate and hatch out.

The fun part of cockatiel breeding is the surprises you get in the nest. You can have plain parents and many times they will give you a variety of colors. And, if you can handfeed and wean out a cockatiel you obtain the skills to handfeed any species. Tiels can have the most problems (especially crop ptoblems) of any species. An oldtime breeder once told me if you can breed, raise and handfeed tiels with no problems them you can do any species.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I think I may have a couple pied splits  Their crests and pin feathers are grey, but in the front of the crest I can see where some of the feathers are going to be yellow. They have a Lily Munster thing going on, lol. If this one is a male it will be split to pearl. Thanks for putting up with my tirade.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

_*If this one is a female it will be split to pearl.*_
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Ah...tiel genetics can get confusing. Some simple things to remember is sex-linked and recessive. Recessive genes such as pied can be inherited by either sex, but when paired both birds must carry the gene to produce visual pieds. Sex-linked mutations, such as cinnamon, lutino and pearl can be also be inherited, but it is ususally the male that will inherit the split if it's mother was a pearl. Sex-linked genes can not be inherited by the females. If they visually do not show it then they don't carry (are split to) the gene. Pearl female offspring are produce from a father split to pearl or a visual pearl (this is when paired with any mutation). But in order to get visual pearl male offspring both parents must have the gene.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I'm sorry, yes, I _did_ mean male. Sometimes my brain functions improperly. I am multi-tasking, however with each task I add on I lose a little coherency.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

LOL...that happens to me alot


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Sex-linked genes can not be inherited by the females.


I know that both of you know what you're talking about, but here's a slight clarification for anyone else who may be reading. The MOTHER's sex-linked genes can not be inherited by her female chicks, although she'll pass them on to all her male chicks. Female chicks get sex-linked genes only from their father.


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