# Breeding and Mutations



## sh.adz (Jul 7, 2012)

Ok, i do have a few questions about Breeding Tiels and Mutations. 
And i will say now, i am asking these questions because yes i want to breed them, not for money, not to have cute little babies running around but because i love the breed and think it would be amazing. In saying that, i don't plan to start until i've finished all the research and i feel ready to have the responsibility of the babies, also, i have the time to be home with them. 

Now, with that said, I have started making my way through the stickies on this forum in the breeding section, which i will read, and re-read until it sinks in. 
i currently have two Tiels Male and female, with a baby coming. Havent decided between male or female yet but they are willing to get it DNA sexed for me.

First off, My tiels Diet. (note, what i say is still being introduced to the new female) They are fed Cockatiel mix birdseed, with a fair amount of Sunflower seeds, i used to pick them out but not anymore. They also get Vetafarm Complete diet for Parrots which has dried fruit and Almond chips in it, A Cuttlefish in the cage at All times, Eateable Calcium and 'grit? i think it is, if not my bad'. As well as a range of veggies and fruit, depends on what i'm eating at the time as Sariya (the boy) will only eat those foods from my plate if im eating.

I do have another cage available that will be used, it fits a nestbox with plenty of room for the tiels. Breeding has happened in it before. and im willing to buy another cage for the babies, Cant remember what their called, short but wide xD

I have had the opportunity to Syringe feed some conures, Huge thanks to the person that let me, Not saying that, that makes me an expert by any means, It was just a chance to experience it, And that will definitely be the path i take, obviously after extensive research and hopefully after some advice here, i know there are people with lots of experience and i really want to learn and take all advice given  

One little thing that has been on my mind though, Do you let the parents Raise the baby a little before taking it out of the nest, or take it out after hatching?
Another question, What kind of Babies do you think they would give me, or if you think they're mutations aren't compatible. 

I've been told the Female is a Cinnamon whiteface Pied.









The Male i know is a grey Pearl, but not sure if theres anything else in there. i don't know what either birds parents are.
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r584/Shadzikens/DSCF0584.jpg (baby photo the male. not sure if that helps any but yea.) 








back view








Front View

Sorry about the length


----------



## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

I would co-parent, let the parents feed and feed them some yourself to lend a hand. Pulling the chicks from the nest before the first two weeks are up is a nightmare as they require a feeding every two hours.



Motheried Whiteface Cinnamon
Fatherearl Split To Pied

male offspring:
50% Grey Split To Pied Whiteface {X1: Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}
50% Pied Split To Whiteface {X1: Pearl} {X2: Cinnamon}

female offspring:
50% Pearl Split To Pied Whiteface
50% Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface

http://www.kirstenmunson.com/cockatiels/blue.html

I edited this and used the calculator instead, it gives a clearer result.


----------



## sh.adz (Jul 7, 2012)

First off, Thankyou for reading my post 

Alright, I'll look into co-parenting, firstly any threads on here, then search in other areas on the internet, although i might bug a little to find out if the information is correct. I know the internet is full of bad untrue information.

Wow, Mutations seem rather confusing, i think its going to take a while to get used to that and a lot of research.

Will the Whiteface or Cinnamon be visual?
if my breeding goes well i plan on keeping a baby depending. And i've always wanted a white face, one that obviously is one lol. which again isn't the reason i'm doing it. Sorry i keep adding that stuff, i live in an area where most of the breeders are rather nasty to anyone trying to get into it, they say you can't do it without experience, but theres only one real way to get it. So far only come across 1 person willing to help by letting me syringe feed some Conures


----------



## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

The white faces and cinnamons will only be split. Males carrying the pearl gene won't be visible either. All non-pied offspring will be split to pied.


----------



## sh.adz (Jul 7, 2012)

ahh, ok, thats fine. Maybe one day in the future i'll have that chance 

But then, i still have to wait for the female to finish Quarantine before i'll be able to tell if they're a suitable pair, I read somewhere that a pair should be bonded before breeding, something about them making better parents, if thats right


----------



## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

sh.adz said:


> But then, i still have to wait for the female to finish Quarantine before i'll be able to tell if they're a suitable pair, I read somewhere that a pair should be bonded before breeding, something about them making better parents, if thats right


Definitely. Some require more time than others to form a strong bond. Generally speaking, the stronger the bond, the better the parents. They need to be able to work together and function well under stress together, helping each other along. Just like humans, really. 

And there's always the chance that they'll never bond how you want them to... heh.


----------



## sh.adz (Jul 7, 2012)

I'm hoping they will, But i'll be getting a hand reared baby soon, so that will always be an option, although then that comes with a lot more waiting, I'd also read that its better to wait until the birds are 18months? another thing i hope is true. lol. My male is old enough, and my current female not far off. Even though i plan to wait no matter of age, theres no point if i havent done the right research. i would feel horrible if i had babies die due to my ignorance or not knowing what to do when theres plenty of information around.


----------



## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

I'm pretty sure it's 18 months for females, 12 months for males. I'm in the same situation as you, except my pair are already bonded. I'm planning on putting in a nestbox early next year. They have been practising nesty behaviour for a couple of months now and I've had to do hormone control methods to reduce their nestiness. Since it's going to be their first time breeding there are bound to be things go wrong, and the important thing is not to blame yourself. No amount of research can account for the accidents that can happen when first trying out a breeding pair together. I do wish you the best of luck, and hope your pair bond.  When does your hen finish quarantine?


----------



## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

sh.adz said:


> ahh, ok, thats fine. Maybe one day in the future i'll have that chance
> 
> But then, i still have to wait for the female to finish Quarantine before i'll be able to tell if they're a suitable pair, I read somewhere that a pair should be bonded before breeding, something about them making better parents, if thats right


I would venture to say it is a requirement. Unless you want to hand feed a baby every two hours yourself, or if you have a very experienced hen. The male usually takes on most of the feeding responsibility for the young chicks. If the two are not bonded the female will refuse the male entry into the nestbox. Then you have a problem, babies on the way for a non-bonded pair. But we are getting ahead of ourselves, most hens will not mate with a male they are not bonded to.

Start out by putting their cages next to each other for a few days. Then you can move to introducing them.

You will want to introduce the two on neutral ground outside the cage. Birds tend to view their cage as their unofficial territory and will attack other birds as intruders. 90% of the time the birds don't take to each other the first time.

They may try to peck or hiss at each other and this is normal. Take it slowly over a number of weeks keeping them just beyond pecking distance and offer them treats during these sessions as a form of positive reinforcement. Watch them very closely as you do this.

You can do everything right above and they might just decide they don't like each other. Its ideal to start with proven breeding pairs, but I prefer to buy young birds since its easier to convince them to pair. A serious breeder will have more than two or three pairs they will have more like five or six. Since they encourage each other to breed and eventually different birds can be paired for different outcomes many times.


----------



## sh.adz (Jul 7, 2012)

CharVicki - ahhk, My hen is anywhere between 1-2years but the place i got her from are leaning more towards 1 year, she was also the smallest in the group and picked on by the other birds. Not sure if thats added to her flightyness.
Ohh, this will be your first breeding too? its pretty exciting, i can't wait until i can start introducing them together, lucky your two are bonded, i'll look forward to seeing lots of photos of furture babies 
i got her on the 18th of October and i Quarantine for 3 months unless signs of illness or anything strange, right now i am watching a bald patch on the back of her neck, but could be caused by plucking from the other birds she was kept with. Also, her poop is being watched the tray underneath changed Daily to twice daily at the moment. Sorry to go to the nasty side of it haha.


Darkel777- That sounds a little tedious, haha, i think it would be easier to have my first lot of breedings with a bonded pair. i remember, when i lived with a friend, i owned a platinum white?(its what the breeder called her anyway) tiel hen and he owned a normal grey, they became bonded and tried several times to have babies, But it was strange, the male wasn't tame, and he took on the responsibility just fine, But the hand reared hen didn't, its like she just didn't understand the concept lol. But when issues happened with my friend, he ended up with both birds  we couldnt seperate them, and they later had a succesful clutch rearing babies themselves. (so ive been told)

The last time i tried to introduce two birds. Sariya, and my old Project bird. (he was abused) they hated each other, Sariya usedto try and be friends, but Paulie had no interest. Some Spray millet soon sorted out their differences  it was such a sight to see, At least until Sariya grabbed paulies crest and dragged him along the chair xD

Oh wow, that sounds pretty hectic lol, in my current arrangement i only have room for around 2 pairs, 3 if i get rid of the fishtank, But i'll definitely start off with 1 pair then slowly work my way up as i become more experienced with it

the two males enjoying their millet  i think i'll use that method again, like you said, treats 


















And hope this doesn't happen again  afterwards wasn't fun, it was the grey one that got hurt


----------



## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

I was co-parenting, that was until the 3 babies were being plucked, so now I am hand-raising them. I would go with co-parenting 100%, really benefits both parents, and babies!


----------



## sh.adz (Jul 7, 2012)

Ok awesome, Co-parenting sounds like the way to go, especially for a first timer in breeding  the female is an aviary bird. its probably wrong but someone told me that they make better parents?


----------



## sh.adz (Jul 7, 2012)

are there reasons that a parent will start plucking babies?


----------



## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

The parents that are tame won't be scared to rip off your finger than an untamed parent that will just hiss and jump
Do you see blood spots on the babies? They parents can sometimes pluck to get sodium off of their blood, try feeding them celery. But some birds will pluck because their parents have plucked them
At least the feathers will grow back


----------



## sh.adz (Jul 7, 2012)

But would an untame bird abandon the babies if you touch them? i got told by someone that they would if you didn't have a bond with the parents. i would hate to cause the baby be left alone.

ohh, so Celery helps prevent plucking, i'll have to remember that, and add a little to their diet before breeding so they get used to it, still yet to try broccoli.


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

No that is a myth, the parents will not abandon the babies if you touch them, tame or not.


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Chard (aka silverbeet) is a better vegetable than celery if you can get it. It's high in sodium and also high in a lot of other vitamins and minerals. Celery is fairly low in nutrition overall. My birds go crazy for red chard, especially when they're breeding. 


Here's Shodu chewing on chard instead of chewing on her babies' feathers:


----------

