# Constant begging at 11 weeks?



## DinoandSera (Aug 31, 2010)

Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum. I have two cockatiels, Dino and Sera, who I collected from the breeder just over two weeks ago. They are now both 11 weeks old. What I wanted to know is; is it normal for some cockatiels to still beg a lot at this age?

My female, Sera, has never begged since I collected her. She will have a little bit of the baby mash now and again when I make it for Dino twice a day, but loses interest quite quickly. She is an independent lady and likes cuddles, but will also play and fly around happily.

Dino, on the other hand, begs constantly whenever he sees me. He scoffs the baby mash until his crop is bursting out his feathers and then he carries on begging even when obviously full. He is weaned and eats his seeds and vegetables fine. He is a bit smaller than Sera and scruffier in the chest, whereas she seems to be pretty much fully grown and feathered. When he is out the cage, he will sit on your shoulder and beg constantly ( right down your ear lol), not interesting in playing or having a fly round  Is he just slower to mature? Am I expecting too much of him?

Thanks for any advice,
Kind regards.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

I've been in a similar postion, bird was a similar age to yours as well. I kept up the feeds but almost two weeks later she was still begging and not eating a great deal herself. After looking into this and knowing she had a sort of assisted hatch (which could have resulted in her getting an infection) I put hr on a course of Baytril (antbiotic) and she was fully weaned just before the course ended, she improved after a day of the meds so I think her slow weaning could have been due to an infection.


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## DinoandSera (Aug 31, 2010)

Thanks for the reply - did you see a vet to get the antibiotic?

I am thinking at 11 weeks he is still a baby, but at what age should I start to worry about him begging still? 12 weeks? 

When I picked him up, the breeder told me not to worry about the begging, he would grow out of it on his own. Is this the general experience?

Kind regards.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

The baytril was from the vets. It keeps for ages, a good year or so ir you keep it in a cool dry dark place. I've only experienced this once with this bird, never bought one like that previously and haven't bred any that haven't been weaned by that age. I would be a little worried incase he has an infection.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

_*When I picked *him* up, the breeder told me not to worry about the begging, he would grow out of it on his own. Is this the general experience?*_
_*--------------------------------------------------*_

Shame on this breeder  At this age the tiel should have been fully weaned. As Jess posted there could be a possibility it has a low grade yeast and/or bacterial infection.

I would contact the breeder and express your concerns, and also ask the breeder if they work with a vet. If so, have the breeder make an appointment to see your bird, and if there is a health problem the breeder should help pay for some of the vet fees. If the breeder does not want to do this, you might ask them to take the bird back and finish weaning it.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

When I was fairly new to birdkeeping I bought a young Cockatiel that ended up needing meds. I got a refund from the breeder which more or less amounted to the fee I had to pay at the vets, he's 12 now and his mate is 14.


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## DinoandSera (Aug 31, 2010)

*Thank you*

Hi Everybody,

Thanks for the replies, I'm going to contact the breeder today as srtiels suggests.

Last night, Dino had a bit of a play by himself (he was doing tug of war with Sera with my pyjama drawstring lol), but even as he's playing, he was still making the begging noise - it's really weird.

Kind regards.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

When I say a refund I did keep him, the £30.00 paid for his meds and vet consult.
Found out she had other sick ones too, when I asked what she would have done with him if I'd wanted to hand him back she said she would have put him in the shed, she had a couple of other sicks ones in the bathroom 
I would be worried if you did give him back that the breeder would dispose of him rather than get him treatment. There's an English forum (more for avairy birds, small ones) where alot of those breeders are quite happy to dipose of birds themseleves rather than seeking vet treatment for sick ones.
If it were me I would get him checked out at the vets and present the breeder with the bill.


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## DinoandSera (Aug 31, 2010)

Thanks for the advice. In my opinion, the breeder must take responsibility. She did seem a genuinely nice person who loved birds, showed me all her cockatiels including one she had given a refund for just because the owner didn't want her anymore  Nor could she re-sell the bird at full price because it had lost its tameness due to lack of contact. So, I don't think I'll have a problem with getting any money back.

srtiels suggestion that I return Dino to the breeder temporarily to complete weaning is a good idea and that is what I am going to do if he doesn't improve.

srtiels - I've had a reply from the breeder. She hasn't addressed my questions about the begging, just some advice on how to wean him off the baby mash. The thing is, he eats all his other foods with no problem, just begs all the time. I give him the mash because he enjoys it so much, but I'm sure I could make him go cold turkey and he would be fine. She doesn't have a vet either - her's apparently died last month and she's looking for another :blink: Thanks for the good advice. I'm much clearer now about what to do.

Kind regards.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

My thoughts are if she had a hard time weaning him, it is going to be harder for an inexperienced person. If the baby is eating some on it's own, it is logical to think there may be another underlying problem causing it to continuely cry. Even though her vet 'supposedly' died, you might ask her for the vets # to see if there is another vet at the same clinic that can look at the bird, or refer you to a vet familair with birds.


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## DinoandSera (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm going to see about returning him for her to complete weaning. 

If that doesn't work out, I don't see why I should pay for vet treatment for a bird I've just bought, but, darn it, that is probably what I'll do because I'm attached to the little guy now and so is Sera 

I know, it's stupid of me, isn't it?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

_*I know, it's stupid of me, isn't it?*_
*------------------------------------------*
 NO...it does not sound stupid. You sound like a very concerned and responcible person...whereas the breeder sounds irresponcible.


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## DinoandSera (Aug 31, 2010)

At least I have an avian vet within reasonable distance, well, 40mins drive. E-mailed them today, £38 for basic check-up and 30 mins consultation with the avian vet. I guess that sounds reasonable. They are open late on Tuesdays and Thursdays too so could take him after work if it comes to that.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

That is great you have the vet nearby, and sounds resonable. For peace of mind I would definitely go.

In looking at the pix of Sera, her tail length did not look long enough to be as old as stated. At her age it should have been grown out enough to be the same length as an adults.


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## DinoandSera (Aug 31, 2010)

Hmmm, you know what? I got told one age one week by the breeder, but then, in a subsequent e-mail got told a different date (no explanation). I thought it was simply a typo, but now you say that... Could Dino not be as old as I've been told?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Quite possibly they are younger than what you have been told, especially if the breeder did not take note on what date they hatched, and is only guessing the age. Or if the breeder knew they had a definite sale they may have sold them earlier to be done with handfeeding them. I am suspecting they are younger than 11 weeks.

Also..I was thinking, if the mother did not show any visible pearl then Sera is a female. Dino can be either sex. Below are a couple pix. You can look at Dinos underside of the wings. The size of the spots can vary between birds...but if a male only some on the flight feathers close to the body will not have spots. This will give you a rough idea of possible sex.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

Sounds like the sort of person I dealt with all those years ago, she didn't even turn up, they were for sale at her boyfriends house, also I was told the bird was 8 weeks old, the hatch certificate made him 5 months????

My advice, hang on to him, I don't trust this breeder, seems like one story after another.
srtiels may have hit nail on the head, maybe is is younger than you were told. 

If not and he is 11 weeks I think it could be a low grade infection, I doubt very much if this breeder will pay out for the vets and I'm worried what they will do with him, if he is sick and isn't treated he won't get better on his own.
Get him treated and give her the bill, he most probably needs a course of nystatin and baytril. threatening them with small claims court is one way to go if the don't want to pay up!

What part of England are you in? I've got list of Avian vets in my Parrots magazine.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

I just had a look at the picture, its hard to tell, either he is alot younger say 6-7 weeks or he isn't well. (babyish stance) The other bird you bought, was she from the same parents?


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## DinoandSera (Aug 31, 2010)

Morning guys,

Well, last night was interesting. Got in, asked hubby how he'd been and he replied, "Good as gold". "What, no begging?" I asked. "Nope." When I approach the cage, the begging starts as though he is about to die of starvation.

It's ME. I went away and told hubby to go to him. No begging. He only does it when he sees ME specifically. So, I thought I'd try something. Dino would be rewarded with my attention when he was quiet and ignored with my turned back when he begged at me. No kidding, I spent over 1 hour approaching and moving away from the cage. In the end - result. Dino was sat on my shoulder preening himself. He did bite me really hard when he was finally let out - I guess he was annoyed lol.

He also played (managed to pull the button off my shirt) and flew around like a different bird.

I think he made real progress last night and I can't wait to get in later to see how he is today. I think this problem has been caused by me because when he begged, he got what he wanted.

I'm not sure why it was me he begged at, perhaps because the breeder was a lady.


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## DinoandSera (Aug 31, 2010)

Hi Jess - I am in North Wales near Chester. The Avian Vet I contacted was this place:

http://avianveterinaryservices.co.uk/

If you have any listed that are nearer, that would be great. I found a few that are closer distance wise, but would involve driving through Chester city centre to get to and I'm sure the place above would be quicker to get to because I can just hop on the motorway.

Sera has different parents to Dino.


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## DinoandSera (Aug 31, 2010)

srtiels - sorry, forgot to reply to your question about the colouring. Dino is a male because he's had the DNA test done (unless she got that mixed up as well  - hope not because I paid for it). Sera was not DNA'd, but the breeder was 99% sure she is female because apparently all the males from those parents are one colour and all the females another. Seras mother was a visual pearl.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

_*Sera was not DNA'd, but the breeder was 99% sure she is female because apparently all the males from those parents are one colour and all the females another. Seras mother was a visual pearl.*_
_*---------------------------*_
Since Sera mother was a pearl, then her father had to be split to pearl to produce a visual pearl, so Sera can be either sex. Same with Dino.

Did she give you a copy of the DNA sexing certifricate? If the sexing was done the breeder would have gotten the results by email, and and results and certifricate mailed to her. it is common practice for the breeder to give you a copy of the sexing certifricate if you have been charged with one.


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## DinoandSera (Aug 31, 2010)

Hi - yes, I have the certificate for Dino's DNA.

As for Sera - the breeder said something like the yellow in all the females from those parents is a deep yellow (like Sera) and the yellow in the males is a paler yellow.

I'll be amused if she turns out to be male. I originally asked for two males, but the breeder convinced me otherwise because she told me they would fight.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

LOL...2 males would get along fine. it would be better too, since you would otherwise have brother and sister, and you would have to later on keep them from trying to mate with each other when mature.


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

These are the ones that are listed in Wales in Parrots magazine. There's also a couple in Cheshire, is that too far away? 

E Barbour-Hill 


WaySearch E Barbour-Hill
Contact Person: E Barbour-Hill BVSc, MRCVS
Tan-y-Coed, High Street, Penlon, Bangor Gwynedd
LL57 1PX
Wales
Phone: (01248) 355674
Services offered: 
•D DNA sexing
•F Faecal sampling
•IA Isoflurane anaesthesia
•M Microsurgery
•MC Micro-chipping
•R Radiography
•V Vitamin & mineral supplements


Rhianfa Veterinary Centre 


WaySearch Rhianfa Veterinary Centre
Contact Person: Mr J P Hickerton BVSc, MSc, MRCV
83 Russell Road Rhyl
LL18 3DR
Wales
Phone: 01745 332553
Services offered: 
•Z Please call for services offered 
Valley Veterinary Group 


WaySearch Valley Veterinary Group
Contact Person: Mark Evans BVSc, MRCVS
Gabalfa Veterinary Surgery, 180 Merthyr Road (A470) Cardiff
CF14 1DL
Wales
Phone: 02920 529444
Services offered: 
•D DNA sexing
•E endoscopy
•F Faecal sampling
•H Hospital facilities
•I Imping
•IA Isoflurane anaesthesia
•L In-house laboratory facilities
•M Microsurgery
•MC Micro-chipping
•N Nebulisation
•R Radiography
•V Vitamin & mineral supplements
•U Ultrasound facilities


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## Jess (Jun 20, 2010)

Cheshire vets taken from the parrot society website

The Parrot Society UK - Avian Vets - Cheshire 
Avian Vets in Cheshire
Manor Court Veterinary Centre, Tarvin, Chester, Cheshire, CH3 8EB,
Tel: 01829 740216, Fax 01829 741054, Ian Cameron, BVMS, MRCVS.

Cranmore Veterinary Consultant Centre, 140 Chester Road, Childer Thomton, L66 IQN. Tel: 0151339 9141. Part-time avian consultant. Brian H. Coles, BVSc, MRCVS, Dip. ECAMS, RCVS, Registered Specialist in Zoo Animal and Wildlife Medicine (avian) Full diagnostic and surgical service.

The Veterinary Surgery, 17 Orford Lane, Warrington, WAI 7AZ. Tel: 01925 634881. Mr McDonald, BVMS, MRCVS.

Birch Heath Veterinary Clinic, Birch Heath Road, Tarporley, Cheshire, CW6 9UU. Tel: 01829 733777 (24 hrs). Fax: 01829 733923. Mr M.D. Stanford BVSc. MRCVS. Comprehensive facilities for treating pscittacines, raptors and reptiles. Full surgical and hospitalisation facilities. Endoscopic and DNA sexing. Microchipping referral service. New purpose-built surgery now open with birdrooms for pscittacines/raptors.

Richard Jones BVSc, MSc, MRCVS.Avian Veterinary Services. Gauntlet Bird of Prey. Manchester Road. Knutsford
WA16 0SX Tel:- 01565 654131


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## Berdnerd (May 20, 2010)

What a strange breeder. I agree with Susanne, 2 boys would have been best because of the mating thing. I suppose 2 males may not get along sometimes but it's not a common problem. Are Dino and Sera living together? If they are, I would actually be worried because if they're bonded and mate later, it would be a big no no to let them raise babies if they're brother and sister.


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## DinoandSera (Aug 31, 2010)

Hi Jess - thanks very much for listing all those vets, that's really kind. The one in Tarvin is actually closest to me distance wise, but means driving through the city centre so would probably take the longest to reach. The one I contacted is farther, but really easy to get to cos it's just off the M6. However, I'll contact the nearer ones for a quote anyway. Always worth having more options!

srtiels - the reason why I wanted two males is partly exactly the reason you say and partly another story that I won't bore you with. I suspect that the breeder knew quite well that two boys would be fine, but probably had a surplus of females to sell.

As for them mating, they are not related, but I have no intention of letting them have chicks. I'll be doing all the right things to discourage mating (no nest box, long nights, etc), but if nature takes its course, my plan is to render Sera's eggs non-viable and let her sit until she abandons.


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## DinoandSera (Aug 31, 2010)

Berdnerd - I love that picture of Little Bird - what a lovely crest he had.


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