# Slow crop or just water?



## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

Can someone tell me what this is. It didn't look like this a couple hours ago. It looks like food/seed on the bottom and liquid on the top. I don't know if I should wait a couple hours or treat with something. 8 day old baby.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

It looks distended to me. I've never seen it look full of water before.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

It looks like air. I've seen this happen. I would wait to see if it goes away.

In the meantime, I would read these two stickies for more helpful info:
http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=32913
http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27514


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

I was going to say air. Do you see any air bubbles in the syringe when you’re feeding? Maybe you’re feeding a bit too slow which causes the bird to inhale air while he’s head bobbing for food.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

Thank you so much
It wasn't air, you could see air bubbles on the top near the throat but the rest was fluid and then seed on the bottom. 
It still hasn't emptied fully. I gave the baby a pinch of ginger in water soaked with organic rolled oats just a few drops maybe 4 of very thin mixture just to aid in digestion. It randomly keeps stretching it's throat a few times every 15 minutes or so and tightening the crop, more often the last few minutes. I can see the food tightening and rolling in the crop so the crop has not gone in to stasis. There is a few safflower seeds in there but nothing bigger that I feel should be blocking anything. I've massaging it on and off since I posted this. It looks way better. But it just won't empty the solid contents. Should I put it in the nest and let mom feed it again or wait till it empties. Here he is now.


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

When you say is doesn’t empty, how long is the crop full without feedings? I don’t think there’s anything wrong, but I could be incorrect. It does look like air to me.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

Haimovfids said:


> I was going to say air. Do you see any air bubbles in the syringe when you?re feeding? Maybe you?re feeding a bit too slow which causes the bird to inhale air while he?s head bobbing for food.


They are not handfed. They are being fed by momma and I came home from the store and checked on them to find it like that. 

I put it back in the nest while mom was out eating and right before she went in she stopped at the water bowl and she feeds the babies in order biggest to smallest so I stopped her halfway through feeding this one and she put a bunch of water in there again as she had just taken a drink. 

When I first started massaging the crop I did feel a clump of seeds that were stuck together pretty good and at one point when I was watching the baby's crop contracting it jumped like it was hurt. I wonder if some seeds just got sticky and kinda blocked the passage?

I will keep a close eye on it and keep those articles handy.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

It took over 2 hours to get most of the liquid out of the crop and there was still a bit in there and some safflower seeds, unidentifieds and soggy oats. The crop was small though by that point. About dime sized.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

It definitely enjoyed its massage....and it cracked it's eyes open for the first time which was neat. Here it is and one point during it's rub lol


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

I'm not finding any info on how long it should actually take the crop to empty on a baby this age. Now that I have been paying extra attention it is clear to see that mom is feeding this baby nonstop and feeding the others after if she feels like it. Because the youngest is smaller and much quieter it gets pushed aside and not fed much, all the times I've looked at it the crop has never been buldging to the top like the oldest always is the middle sometimes is. I took the 2 older babies out and mom fed the little one but it's not as stable as falls down and mom seems to not be in the mood to have to keep trying to feed it.

I have the oldest out right now. Crop is full like it was just fed but it's been nearly 2 hours and it's crying for food. 

I tried to find the sour crop article on just cockatiels and it says password protected.
I'm also not sure what the average time for a crop to empty is. Especially when mom just fills them all full of seed of completely undigested seed. She just gets out and eats and then goes in and piles it all in baby #1

So questions how many hours should the crop take to empty. Now that it is after midnight baby is 9 days old.
Home remedies for sour crop?
When to see a vet?


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

About 4 hours since I pulled it from the nest and I've only given it a couple drops of water 2x in the last hour and it looks like this. Poops are white and dry and about once an hour. Something is definitely wrong here. I can tell it is getting dehydrated and it's screaming because it feels like it is starving. I'm afraid to empty the crop by holding it upside down
=/


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

Definitely sour/Slow crop. It's got little bubbles forming at the top of the crop. 
Crop is also distended. 
I think mom is too young and too stressed, I am trying right now to figure out how to set up something to keep babies in at the right temp and I think I may have to just take them away from her. 
I'd be getting more sleep waking up every 2 hours to feed them than I am staying up all night. 
On a good note I've been giving the baby coconut water and it finally had a liquid poop and I made a make shift crop support to hold the crop up as it was so distended it was big than and hanging over that abdomen and we are finally getting some movement in there.

Going to get apple sauce in the morning and look for my turmeric powder. I used it when my budgie lost his foot as well and I'm going to put it the birds water so at least for now until I figure out what the heck I'm doing hopefully the other babies don't get sick.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

Stayed up all night with baby. Did tons of reading, I always prefer a natural approach when possible so I am going to try Apple cider vinegar plain Pedialyte to kill the yeast. As of now baby is well hydrated and pooping lots thanks to the coconut water. There is about 30 or so percent of the the seed left in the crop. I'm thinking by this afternoon we should have it cleared. 
Baby is opening it's eyes and instantly developed a huge personality!
I'm going to get formula and will be pulling all the babies. There is no way it could be harder than what these parent birds have put me through!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=32913
This is the slow crop article we have. As for the just cockatiels site, I'm not sure what's going on there. I can't access it anymore and I think the owner has made it private as of now. 



> The garlic powder, cinnamon, and cayenne pepper remedy of srtiels does wonders in preventing slow crop. Baking soda in water does a pretty good job short-term as well if you catch it early.


This is also a good thing you can try. The spices are a spice remedy that does seem to really help in these situations. You just add it to the handfeeding formula before you feed the babies.


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

I don't have much experience with yeast crops but I'm pretty sure I know that you really shouldn't be feeding a chick plain water. The water they get should only be coming from the formula when you mix the formula mix with water. I think this because water is very runny and could cause aspiration.

Someone double check me on this?


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

Thanks, I'm feeling pretty helpless at this point. Mom pretty much has decided not to feed the youngest and she doesn't seem to care much about the other two.

I called the only avian vet in the county and they said they can't help me. 

I'm own my own. 

It's not looking very good for them. I don't even know where I can find a syringe small enough to fit in the babies mouth.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

And the closest rescue is 5 and half hours away.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

You can go to a pharmacy and ask for a 5ml syringe which would be a good size to start with. I would try calling local breeders to see if any can help you. 

Has mom stopped feeding the babies all together?


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

I pulled them. She was barely feeding them. All she cared about was my male. She did something to the youngest. It kept falling over and doing like cartwheels and it's wing tips and feet were discolored so I know it's been having trouble breathing for some time and on top of that it is passing bloody stool. It's alive but I am just keeping it warm until it passes.
I think they all were getting infections. Miraculously the oldest is doing much better. The crop is clearing out, the middle has a few more seeds from earlier but after a first really scary attempt we figured out handfeeding. 
They are eating multigrain organic baby cereal with the apple cider vinegar water mix. It's just the texture of pudding right now until I am sure they are passing every thing proper. 
Tomorrow I will go to the pet store and get formula but there was no time to waste today. 
I literally have no clue what will happen next but I hope we are in the clear with these two. 

There are no breeders here. Closest ones would be about 2 hours away. 
The population here is just over 8000. And we are literally in the middle of the desert with nothing for 2 hours in either direction. 

I'm so tired. I hope we have smooth sailing from here with these 2.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I will be keeping my fingers crossed for the two of them. If the youngest had stopped crying for food or was having issues feeding, mom would stop feeding it. 

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=6140
The pictures are gone thanks to photobucket being dumb but there are step by step instructions here for how to set up a makeshift brooder for the babies.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

I have them in a little square dollar store container with aspen shavings inside of a regular sized Rubbermaid container with a heating pad wrap in a towel. I bought a bro oder light at home depot last night as my hearing pad has an automatic shut off after 2 hours and is several years old so it isn't the most reliable. The light is awesome! I just push and pull the Rubbermaid closer or farther depend on how warm it gets in the house. 
I read to keep the babies really warm but over 88 and my oldest starts panting. ?
I also have them covered with a towel because they yell unless they are asleep. I'm looking for good pictures of what a full crop should look like. 
Even though the babies are only 1 day apart there is a huge size difference because of the amount of food the oldest was given. 
I just fed them and they haven't stopped screaming since. Maybe I'm under feeding. The crop looks round and feels slightly firm but I guess it could be fuller. I just don't want food coming up the throat.
The oldest eats great, the smaller one only eats if EVERYTHING is exactly right. It wants to stand a certain way, wants the dropper a certain way, food must come out at the exact right time, no food can be on the outside of the dropper before it goes in the mouth...i basically had to to just pop the mouth open get the tongue down and dropper in the throat and squeeze some in so we could get some sleep.
It had a middle of the night freak out before like a 2.30 am feed. The last of the seeds from mom, went out of the crop and I think one of the bigger ones hurt. I picked it and set it on my lap on a towel and it was begging to be fed then I seen the crop contract and move those seeds and the baby started screaming and breathing fast and trembling uncontrollably. I lifted it near my ear about 5 mins after the episode was going on and could hear it's belly making noise, same as ours when we have intestinal issues. I thought for sure this is what happened to the other one and thought it was bleeding internally and going to die. 
I cupped it in a towel in my hand, it wanted to be held right and in a certain position and it ended up falling asleep. 
Maybe 15 minutes later the other started making noise and I needed to check the temp so I got up and in the process woke up the baby I was holding who was startled by where it was and it hissed at me. Hahaha. Anyways we skipped that feed and by the next one it looked okay.

So now I just need to figure out what the crop should look like full and I will be good.
I like using the dropper way better than a syringe. I feel like I have better control.
I'm so thankful that things are going better. 
I am definitely tired. Besides all the nights of sleep I've missed and waking up constantly for these guys, I have 3 boys 5, 11 and 13 and custody of my 8 year old nephew. 4 other birds and a cat who thinks she has to live between my walking legs so things never calm down around here!
I'm pretty sure I am going to keep both these babies. I can't stand the thought of them not being taken care of. I can't wait to know if they are boys or girls. And for them to look like birds and not crazy baby dinos haha! The 2 week olds I seen in the videos are even worse, no baby fuzzy and they scream 10x as loud!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I'm glad they're doing better! For the older one you can try making the food a little firmer and see if that doesn't help.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

I thought my female didn't care but I just put both of them on the edge of the container and she instantly crawled in. I let her feed them both just a tiny bit as I know that immunity is good for them. I feel bad. I can't give them back because she doesn't tend them properly, would it be okay to let her feed them small amounts each day and then if she wants feed them more when they are actually ready for all those whole seeds?
I think it would be better for them to learn some bird skills from their mom and not only human skills. She want to get to them right now but I'm afraid of what she will feed them.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

Does this look okay for a 10 day old chick? As you can see he is still screaming for more food. I fed him and let mom top him off.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

And a 9 day old chick? They both look full enough to me. The little yelled for a few minutes. The older 1 like 3x as long but they are falling asleep now.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

The older 1 looks more than full to me. I just woke it up to check the temp and it's screaming for more again. It pretty much yells nonstop unless it asleep.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

All babies are like that during handfeeding. They scream as soon as you open the box. They both look full to me.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

Okay thanks. This one screams for a while even after a feed, then as it gets sleepy it turns into a little trill but if you accidently wake it up it starts yelling. Yesterday I don't think I was giving enough but I was nervous. Everyday I feel a little better. 
I am still having a hard time getting the littler one to start a feed. I don't like force feeding it, I don't want eating to be a punishment. It will not open for me though. Even if it is wanting food when I lift the towel the second I pull it out it closes it's beak and shakes it head and turns and faces my palm so I can't feed it. Once it actually gets a bob going though it's good to go so I just try and make sure the dropper is totally full so we can do it in one shot.
It takes so long that by the time it is finished I top off the bigger one lol


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

Will the younger one be stunted forever because of poor care the first week? 
The size difference is unbelievable considering they are only 1 day different in age. I thought my older one was just huge because my other 2 were so small but now that I am looking at pictures of babies I am realizing my younger ones were actually way too small.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

The stunted one will catch up eventually. This won't affect it it's whole life.


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## Jenn1469 (Jan 23, 2018)

Oh good! That's a relief. I'm regretting letting mom feed them that small amount today as the little still has seeds in his crop from then. 
It decided it wants to eat. Now I have 2 babies who never stop screaming and the older one is getting mobile so now it's waddling around yelling. I bet half the time the parents are sitting on the babies to get them to go to sleep! =D
I guess the downside to the brooder light is they can see. 
They are making me a little crazy.


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## Mhoshi (Jul 4, 2018)

Following because Im having pretty much the same issues. Crop is taking twice as long to empty, mom isn't feeding during the night. 9 (now 10) day old baby. Im having trouble trusting her.


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