# Orange Cheeks ... some do, some don't



## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

I have a curiosity question. Does anyone know why some tiels have orange cheeks and others don't? I thought that they all had the orange cheeks but looking at some of the other member's pictures, I noticed that some don't. The white face tiel in the forum's title doesn't have them either. Just curious


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

It has to do with the mutation they are, for instance the Whiteface gene removes all yellow and orange pigment from the cockatiel, therefore whiteface cockatiels dont have orange cheek patches. 
Other genes can change cheek patch colour too, like Pastelface and Yellowcheek.


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

Hello *xoxsarahxox*. Your tiels are beautiful. 

Thank you for the explanation. I had never seen one without the orange cheeks until I came to this forum. So there can be yellow cheeks as well. How interesting. 

Is your orange cheeks tiel all yellow and white? If so, mine is just like it. Mine is all yellow and white with the orange cheeks. Would mine be considered a Lutino ... period? She doesn't have any other colors. 

Thank you again.


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

I just noticed that in your signature you have "cinnamon lutino", so yours most have another color other than white and yellow, right? Mine is probably a lutino only then ...  Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Nicci_ (Aug 28, 2012)

Cinnamon Lutino's are just a different shade more or less. Tilly in my signature is a cinnamon pearl pied lutino. Stevie is a cinnamon. 
Have you got pictures of BabyMoo up? I had a quick look and couldn't see any.

Check out http://www.tieltreasures.com/gallery.htm this has lots of different pictures of different types of tiels 

(edited to take the lutino out of Stevie. Too much Lutino on the mind haha!)


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

stevie is just a cinnamon, no lutino.

to BabyMoo, there is also the rare gold cheek and cream face that have different colour cheeks.

of all the tiels with different cheek colours, whiteface is the most common, pastelface is uncommon, the rest are much rarer


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

Hello Nicci.

Thank you for the link. I loved seeing all the different mutations. They are all so beautiful!

Your tiels are very beautiful. Here are two pics of BabyMoo. It seems like she is a Lutino (only).


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

Nici, 
BabyMoo looks a lot like your Tilly on the face.


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

*DallyTsuka* ...
That is just so interesting. Mine has the orange cheeks. So Stevie, even though has a yellow face, is not considered a lutino. The gold cheeks most be beautiful. 

Your babies are all four so cute. Thank you for the information.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

BabyMoo is a lutino. It's hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like her tail might be a slightly "dirty" color. If it is, and it's not actual dirt, she is a cinnamon lutino. When the cinnamon and lutino genes are combined, the lutino cancels out most of the cinnamon but a little bit shows through, mostly on the wings and/or tail.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

P.S. If you're interested, the colors of my birds are:

Vlad - cinnamon male
Mims - lutino female
Shodu - whiteface female
Buster - normal grey male
Squeebis and Henry - normal grey males
Teela - lutino female
Priscilla - normal grey female
Pip - whiteface pied male
Ladybug - pearl female
Elvis - normal grey male
Azazel - cinnamon male
Snowy - whiteface lutino female

The whiteface gene removes the orange and yellow color and the lutino gene removes the grey color.


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

Hello *Tielfan*,

No, just a little dirt she picked up ... lol. She is the same all over except her cheeks. All white with yellow. She looks like a little angel some times when she is in the light  Someone asked me once if she was bold but she is not. If I understand it correctly, some lutino can be bold? She is covered all over 

She is like Teela and Mims. How cute!! Thank you for the list. They are all so beautiful. Congrats. 

I'm learning so much about my little BabyMoo. 

I wonder how her parents looked like. I wonder if they were both like her ... lutino.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

tielfan said:


> The whiteface gene removes the orange and yellow color and the lutino gene removes the grey color.


And that's it in a nutshell! So a pale yellow bird with orange cheeks is a lutino, because it has no grey. A whiteface bird (like all of mine in my signature) has no orange or yellow. A whiteface lutino has no orange, yellow or gery, and thus is pure white (like Moon in my sig, and Snowy in Carolyn's). Pastelface, yellowcheek, etc. are rare mutations. All WILD tiels are normal grey, with the exceptions of a few anomalies. It's only in captive, selectively bred tiels that you see all the variations.


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

echolalia said:


> And that's it in a nutshell! So a pale yellow bird with orange cheeks is a lutino, because it has no grey. A whiteface bird (like all of mine in my signature) has no orange or yellow. A whiteface lutino has no orange, yellow or gery, and thus is pure white (like Moon in my sig, and Snowy in Carolyn's). Pastelface, yellowcheek, etc. are rare mutations. All WILD tiels are normal grey, with the exceptions of a few anomalies. It's only in captive, selectively bred tiels that you see all the variations.


Wow!!! Thank you *echolalia*. That summary was great. So, yes, mine is for sure a lutino (white and yellow only with orange cheeks). Yours are so so beautiful. I love that white gray combination. The white ones is so unique. Congrats!!  Thanks again.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> I wonder how her parents looked like. I wonder if they were both like her ... lutino.


Lutino is a sex-linked recessive gene, which means that it has complicated inheritance rules. Girls get the gene only from their father, and he doesn't have to be visual lutino - he can just carry the gene (this is called a split). A girl who gets the gene from her father will be visual lutino because girls can't be split.

Boys have to get the gene from both parents to be visual. This means that you MUST have a lutino mother to get a lutino boy, and the father can be either visual or split. If a male chick gets the lutino gene from only one parent he will be split.

If you're interested, there's more information with diagrams at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=26845


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

*Tielfan*, 
Your Pip looks almost blue in that picture. So beautiful!


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

I love all the gene mutation stuff. Thank you *tielfan*. I'll be looking through the link for a while. I love how they are all so different and so beautiful. Mine, since she is a girl, might have gotten her lutino look from Dad then  (after looking at page: or from both)


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

She definitely got her lutino look from dad! It's possible that her mother was a lutino, but the lutino gene does NOT pass from mother to daughter so BabyMoo couldn't get the gene from mom.

Teela and Snowy in my signature are the children of Buster and Shodu (Squeebis and Henry are their children too). Mom is whiteface grey and Dad is normal grey split to lutino and whiteface, so they can have lutino daughters and whiteface lutino daughters (whiteface is an ordinary recessive gene). But they can NOT have any lutino sons because Shodu is not lutino. The majority of lutinos are girls because it's easier to produce a girl than it is to produce a boy.


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

Very interesting *tielfan*. Thank you for the clarification and examples. I always wondered about her parents. 

Check out this page:
http://www.tieltreasures.com/gallery.htm

Doesn't the pearl lutino and lutino look the same? What is the difference? Do you know? I wonder if the pearl lutino has a little bit of gray some where and it is not showing in the picture.


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

That picture doesnt show the pearls that well, lutino pearls have yellow pearls all over their back. Try this picture from Srtiels, http://s525.beta.photobucket.com/us...t=6&o=20&_suid=135702134607003799625599414276


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Do you know what a regular (grey) pearl cockatiel looks like? A lutino pearl has similar markings but they're all yellow and white instead of grey and yellow/white. Sometimes it's difficult to see the pearl markings if there isn't too much color contrast between the yellow and white, and other times it's easy to see because there's a lot of contrast.


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## Nicci_ (Aug 28, 2012)

DallyTsuka, was just a typo, had too much lutino on the mind I think haha.

Tilly has pearls in her as well so this is another version of what it looks like; 

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l633/Nicci_/Screenshot2012-12-29at84530PM_zpsf79b2ba4.png

Lutinos have always been my favourite mutation


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## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

Little Shandy is a yellow cheek. Interesting thing I've seen is that the DYC's and the PF's that his breeder has had all have smaller crests than the pieds, pearls, lutinos, etc. He is way smaller than Sunny too at 88 grams vs 110.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Pearl and lutino can cause thinning of the crest so if the babies were mixed with these mutations then that would be the reason. Sunny is a pied, so his crest will definitely be bigger. I haven't seen cheek patches affecting crest.


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

xoxsarahxox said:


> That picture doesnt show the pearls that well, lutino pearls have yellow pearls all over their back. Try this picture from Srtiels, http://s525.beta.photobucket.com/us...t=6&o=20&_suid=135702134607003799625599414276


It looks a lot better here. So beautiful. BabyMoo doesn't have the pearl patters but she does have the yellow here and there. She has one tail feather that is all yellow (blood feather I believe they are called?). The others have some horizontal yellow lines. It looks like they could have been put there with a yellow marker  Thank you!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> The others have some horizontal yellow lines.


This is called barring, and it's a sign of an adult female and also of juveniles of both sexes. If all the barring disappears when BabyMoo gets new tail feathers, this means that "she" is really a "he", since adult males lose all the tail barring. It there's still some barring after all the tail feathers have been replaced then she is really a she.


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

tielfan said:


> Do you know what a regular (grey) pearl cockatiel looks like? A lutino pearl has similar markings but they're all yellow and white instead of grey and yellow/white. Sometimes it's difficult to see the pearl markings if there isn't too much color contrast between the yellow and white, and other times it's easy to see because there's a lot of contrast.


Yes. I just learned how the regular grey pearl tiels look like in the link Nicci recommended. 

I see. So BabyMoo could have the pearls but are not that visual. I don't think she does though. She has the yellow spread out. One tail feather is all yellow. Some of the others have horizontal yellow lines that look like if they were drawn there with a yellow marker. I have always thought that those lines were very interesting and wondered if they were some kind of health related sign. The Vet never said anything about it so I didn't worry.


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

tielfan said:


> This is called barring, and it's a sign of an adult female and also of juveniles of both sexes. If all the barring disappears when BabyMoo gets new tail feathers, this means that "she" is really a "he", since adult males lose all the tail barring. It there's still some barring after all the tail feathers have been replaced then she is really a she.


Barring. How interesting. Amazing as to how much one can know about a tiel just by looking at the feather markings. She is a female for sure. She has laid eggs in the past.  Wow, thank you for the information. It is nice knowing so much about my feathered friend.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If she has already laid eggs then BabyMoo isn't really a baby!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

There are also spots on the underside of the wing that are a characteristic of adult females and juveniles of both sexes. Wing spot sexing is a somewhat reliable way to tell the gender of a baby. There's more info on that at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=18307 The spots are harder to see on lutinos, just as the tail barring is harder to see.


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

Nicci_ said:


> Tilly has pearls in her as well so this is another version of what it looks like;
> 
> http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l633/Nicci_/Screenshot2012-12-29at84530PM_zpsf79b2ba4.png
> 
> Lutinos have always been my favourite mutation


Thank you for the link. Lutinos are very beautiful indeed.


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

papresq said:


> Little Shandy is a yellow cheek. Interesting thing I've seen is that the DYC's and the PF's that his breeder has had all have smaller crests than the pieds, pearls, lutinos, etc. He is way smaller than Sunny too at 88 grams vs 110.


Hello *papresq*. Your tiels are both very beautiful. They make a good pair. I love the yellow cheeks. Interesting about the smaller crests. Some people have asked me if BabyMoo has a bold spot on her head b/c she is a Lutino (I guess that some Lutinos have bold spots) but she doesn't. I wonder why the short crest. 

BabyMoo is also a big girl weighing in the 100s. I think two nights ago she was 107g.


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

roxy culver said:


> Pearl and lutino can cause thinning of the crest so if the babies were mixed with these mutations then that would be the reason. Sunny is a pied, so his crest will definitely be bigger. I haven't seen cheek patches affecting crest.


Hello *roxy culver*. Thank you for the input. Very interesting about the mutations. 

Are some Lutinos bold? I keep getting asked if BabyMoo is bold but she is not. She has a head full of feathers ... lol! And a long crest


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

tielfan said:


> If she has already laid eggs then BabyMoo isn't really a baby!


I know :blush: She is my baby though. Actually, she is an older tiel but she has been with us since she was a baby. BabyMoo is just one of her many nick names. It is funny how she has acquired many nick names throughout the years  It is also funny how she responds to all of them


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

tielfan said:


> There are also spots on the underside of the wing that are a characteristic of adult females and juveniles of both sexes. Wing spot sexing is a somewhat reliable way to tell the gender of a baby. There's more info on that at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=18307 The spots are harder to see on lutinos, just as the tail barring is harder to see.


Very interesting. I haven't noticed any yellow markings inside her wings but yet again, she doesn't like us opening her wings for her. I'll have to look closer next time she is stretching. Thank you for the link. I wonder how experts have figured all this out. It is so interesting.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Bald spots are much more common in lutinos than in any other mutation, but not all of them have it.


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

tielfan said:


> Bald spots are much more common in lutinos than in any other mutation, but not all of them have it.


I see. Thanks for the information. It is all very interesting. Cockatiels are amazing creatures.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> Are some Lutinos bold? I keep getting asked if BabyMoo is bold but she is not. She has a head full of feathers ... lol! And a long crest


Bald spots in lutinos trace back to when breeders first started breeding for the mutation, they bred the daughters back to the dad's to get visual babies and this caused the baldness seen in lots of lutinos. Breeders are trying to breed it out now by working with pieds, which strengthens the crest, but its a long process. The fact that she doesn't have one is great!


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

roxy culver said:


> Bald spots in lutinos trace back to when breeders first started breeding for the mutation, they bred the daughters back to the dad's to get visual babies and this caused the baldness seen in lots of lutinos. Breeders are trying to breed it out now by working with pieds, which strengthens the crest, but its a long process. The fact that she doesn't have one is great!


Thank you for the explanation *roxy culver*. She has a head full of feathers. She looks really cute, especially when she gets fluffy. Her cute head is one thing I like about her


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