# Help with mutation



## mwag (Jul 12, 2009)

Hello everyone,

I'm a small breeder of cockatiels and I was wondering if you guys could help me figure out what mutation this baby is. I know the possibilites, I'll list them below. I'm just not sure exactly which one it is. If you know please resond. Thanks in advance. I have pictures of the others too I'll share those in another thread. I'm new here so I look forward to hearing from you.

1.0 natural blue(whiteface) /opaline(pearl) ADM.pied 
x 0.1 natural ashen_dilute(dom.silver)(sf) ADM.pied opaline(pearl) /blue(whiteface) 
% from all 1.0 
6.25% 1.0 natural ADM.pied blue(whiteface) opaline(pearl) 
6.25% 1.0 natural blue(whiteface) opaline(pearl) /ADM.pied 
6.25% 1.0 natural ADM.pied opaline(pearl) /blue(whiteface) 
6.25% 1.0 natural opaline(pearl) /ADM.pied blue(whiteface) 
6.25% 1.0 natural ADM.pied ashen_dilute(dom.silver)(sf) blue(whiteface) opaline(pearl) 
6.25% 1.0 natural ashen_dilute(dom.silver)(sf) blue(whiteface) opaline(pearl) /ADM.pied 
6.25% 1.0 natural ADM.pied ashen_dilute(dom.silver)(sf) opaline(pearl) /blue(whiteface) 
6.25% 1.0 natural ashen_dilute(dom.silver)(sf) opaline(pearl) /ADM.pied blue(whiteface) 
6.25% 1.0 natural ADM.pied blue(whiteface) /opaline(pearl) 
6.25% 1.0 natural blue(whiteface) /ADM.pied opaline(pearl) 
6.25% 1.0 natural ADM.pied /blue(whiteface) opaline(pearl) 
6.25% 1.0 natural /ADM.pied blue(whiteface) opaline(pearl) 
6.25% 1.0 natural ADM.pied ashen_dilute(dom.silver)(sf) blue(whiteface) /opaline(pearl) 
6.25% 1.0 natural ashen_dilute(dom.silver)(sf) blue(whiteface) /ADM.pied opaline(pearl) 
6.25% 1.0 natural ADM.pied ashen_dilute(dom.silver)(sf) /blue(whiteface) opaline(pearl) 
6.25% 1.0 natural ashen_dilute(dom.silver)(sf) /ADM.pied blue(whiteface) opaline(pearl) 
% from all 0.1 
6.25% 0.1 natural ADM.pied blue(whiteface) opaline(pearl) 
6.25% 0.1 natural blue(whiteface) opaline(pearl) /ADM.pied 
6.25% 0.1 natural ADM.pied opaline(pearl) /blue(whiteface) 
6.25% 0.1 natural opaline(pearl) /ADM.pied blue(whiteface) 
6.25% 0.1 natural ADM.pied ashen_dilute(dom.silver)(sf) blue(whiteface) opaline(pearl) 
6.25% 0.1 natural ashen_dilute(dom.silver)(sf) blue(whiteface) opaline(pearl) /ADM.pied 
6.25% 0.1 natural ADM.pied ashen_dilute(dom.silver)(sf) opaline(pearl) /blue(whiteface) 
6.25% 0.1 natural ashen_dilute(dom.silver)(sf) opaline(pearl) /ADM.pied blue(whiteface) 
6.25% 0.1 natural ADM.pied blue(whiteface) 
6.25% 0.1 natural blue(whiteface) /ADM.pied 
6.25% 0.1 natural ADM.pied /blue(whiteface) 
6.25% 0.1 natural /ADM.pied blue(whiteface) 
6.25% 0.1 natural ADM.pied ashen_dilute(dom.silver)(sf) blue(whiteface) 
6.25% 0.1 natural ashen_dilute(dom.silver)(sf) blue(whiteface) /ADM.pied 
6.25% 0.1 natural ADM.pied ashen_dilute(dom.silver)(sf) /blue(whiteface) 
6.25% 0.1 natural ashen_dilute(dom.silver)(sf) /ADM.pied blue(whiteface) 


Here are the links to the pictures:

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/dottie3.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/dottie.jpg


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Post a pix of the parents.

From the links you posted of the baby it appears to be a normal grey. It obviously is not WF. Without a good clear shot of the wing flights spread out I can not say if it is a dominant silver. Also the color is wrong. It is not pied, and since can't see the back of the head, not sure if it split to pied. Ot is not pearled. the chest spots have nothing to do woth either pied or pearl mutations.


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

I like this calculator better it is a lot easier to read/understand 
http://www.kirstenmunson.com/cockatiels/blue.html

See I put the parents just like you have them but it is a lot easier to read 


Mother: Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface
Fatheried Whiteface Pearl

male offspring:
25% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Whiteface Pearl
25% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface
25% Pied Whiteface Pearl
25% Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface

female offspring:
25% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Whiteface Pearl
25% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface
25% Pied Whiteface Pearl
25% Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface

but do you have the Parents mutations right? the picture isn't a pied bird at all and its not a Dominant silver pearl pied 

this is a dominant silver pearl pied










and him as a wee baby 

29 days old


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## mwag (Jul 12, 2009)

Well, I know what a normal grey looks like, lol. He isnt a normal grey. His parents are : dominant silver single factor, pearl pied/wf and wf/pearl pied.

I'll add a few more pictures of him and his siblings. The reason I'm asking is he has yellow dots in places and white dots in places and his overall coloring is different than a normal grey. He also has the yellow around his crest. I'm pretty sure he has a small amount of pied maybe. He doesn't look like pieds ive had in the past but they were heavy pied. Let me know if you know which mutation he is. Thanks.


http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0414.jpg
oldest:

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0413.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0411.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0410.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0409.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0405.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0397.jpg

second oldest:

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0455.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0454.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0453.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0452.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0448.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0447.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0441.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0440.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0434.jpg

Third:

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0433.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0432.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0431.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0425.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0424.jpg

Baby:

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0423.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/DSC_0417.jpg


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

ahh see that changes i didn't realize the split on the origonal post so the outcome i came up with is wrong lol 

well baby 2 and 3 are easy  WF pearls

the baby still looks normal grey to me they can vary in the color 
here is one my baby grey s

last seasons 
He is split to pied but that doesn't change his color 









his sibling from this season









and their dad 










now to really mix it up - this next pic isn't mine but I'd love to have one just like it 











The spots I personally think they dont mean anything - there is actually a entire topic on the spots on here though


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## mwag (Jul 12, 2009)

I also used that genetics calculator that you posted and got the exact same thing i got with the other one. 


Motherominant Silver (single factor) Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface
Father:Whiteface Split To Pied {X1: Pearl}

male offspring:
6% Dominant Silver (single factor) Whiteface Pearl Split To Pied
6% Dominant Silver (single factor) Whiteface Split To Pied {X2: Pearl}
6% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pearl Split To Pied Whiteface
6% Dominant Silver (single factor) Split To Pied Whiteface {X2: Pearl}
6% Whiteface Pearl Split To Pied
6% Whiteface Split To Pied {X2: Pearl}
6% Pearl Split To Pied Whiteface
6% Grey Split To Pied Whiteface {X2: Pearl}
6% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Whiteface Pearl
6% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Whiteface Split To {X2: Pearl}
6% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface
6% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Split To Whiteface {X2: Pearl}
6% Pied Whiteface Pearl
6% Pied Whiteface Split To {X2: Pearl}
6% Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface
6% Pied Split To Whiteface {X2: Pearl}

female offspring:
6% Dominant Silver (single factor) Whiteface Pearl Split To Pied
6% Dominant Silver (single factor) Whiteface Split To Pied
6% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pearl Split To Pied Whiteface
6% Dominant Silver (single factor) Split To Pied Whiteface
6% Whiteface Pearl Split To Pied
6% Whiteface Split To Pied
6% Pearl Split To Pied Whiteface
6% Grey Split To Pied Whiteface
6% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Whiteface Pearl
6% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Whiteface
6% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface
6% Dominant Silver (single factor) Pied Split To Whiteface
6% Pied Whiteface Pearl
6% Pied Whiteface
6% Pied Pearl Split To Whiteface
6% Pied Split To Whiteface


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## mwag (Jul 12, 2009)

We were posting that at the same time lol


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## atvchick95 (Sep 17, 2007)

I think your little baby is the Grey Split to Pied - or it could be the Grey split to pied white face 

they don't always show the "tick" mark for being split to pied 

the 1st calculator you posted - was the 1st one i found and man it gave me a headache LOL i don't understand all the gibberish But I do use it for the Budgies, and One mutation of my lovebirds i have to use that calculator for it 

I like the one from Kristen much better  at least for me its a lot easier to use and understand and doesn't give me a head ache trying to figure it out lol


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Oldest...Pearl pied

Second oldest...If a male it is a WF pearl pied. if a female,* possibly *a WF SFDS pearl pied.

Third:...Same as the above.

Baby: Normal greay. i work with normal dominant silvers and I have noted when young they will have a very dark tone to the very edge of the flight feathers. if they are not DS this edging is a light tannish color.

Unfortunitely since your birds have pied this makes it very difficult to tell if they are dominant silvers because the classic traits, such as dark edging to the wing flights with diluted centers, and a scullcap, and a slight spangling as the bird matures and molts a few times is lost. Try and work the poed, and then the pearl out of your dominat silver lines. Then you will be able to tell what they are as they feather out. I can post some pix's if needed. Right now I have babies that just feathered out and WF-SFDS babies in the nest, and several plain (non pearled or pied) DS in both normal cheeck patch and WF.

As to your birds, they are all beautiful! Unfortunitely since the pearl pieds are so dark, it rules out Dominant silvers if they are male. if female you have to wait thru 1-2 molts to see if the dark feathers lighten up and have a brownish cast to them.


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## mwag (Jul 12, 2009)

That is interesting. I'd like to see pictures of your babies if you have some.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...here are some pix's taken today. Not great but the color is accurate on my screen. Excuse the WF-SFDS-pearl, (pix 1 and 3) her color is right but if you look close she is showing stress bars to some of the wing covets because when she was 3 days old she had an impacted throat in the nest and almost died and it has been an effort to save her. She comes from good sized stock, and for her she is undersized and just weighed in at 98 grams today. Female DS will have a brown tone, and males would have a light greyish tan tone when young.

The 3rd pix is 1 of 2 that I am hoping is a very light-toned WF-SFDS. I work with mainly plain SFDS and have been working on them for almost 10 years to try and get the next generation to be paler. If you need more baby pix's I have some of past birds.

Click on the thumbnails for a larger view.

I can post some pix's of adults in the next post.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Here are some adults. they are quick shots taken a few days ago for postings on another list.

The first pix shows I nice WF-SFDS in front of a nestbox in the back. On the perch is a normal SFDS, Pearl Pied, and normal Pastelface.

2nd pix is a Normal SFDS

Third pix is the upper back of a 3 yr old WF-SFDS

Forth pix is his son, a little over a year old and still going thru a molt. Please excuse his position, he was moving across the wire and twisting his head just when I took the shot. it is his baby in the 3rd pix in the previous posting. And the male in the 3rd pix is the father of the WF-SFDS pearl in the previous posting.

Last is another (sorry it is not clear) pix of another WF-SFDS


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## mwag (Jul 12, 2009)

From your pictures and your description I think the oldest is SFDS pearl pied. Her feathers have a more brownish hue to them. It's really hard to get a great picture that captures the colors perfectly. And I think the second oldest may be SFDS as well because his/her feathers are a little different than the third one. Like you said it is difficult to tell for sure. I wanted to say, though, your birds are really pretty. Thank you for sharing your pictures with me.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes...when I zoomed in on your pix at 400% I could see some of the slight brownish cast. With hens it is SO hard to tell. You have to sit on them for a few molts to see if the color lightens up.

Here is a normal SFDS hen, who is going thru her second molt. You can still see some darker feather prior to the molt. PLEASE EXCUSE her condition.

The 2nd pix is a beautiful light toned WF-SFDS that I had bought from another breeder many years ago. at the time she was a teenager working with the rarer mutations and put much effort into her pairing to breed true to the mutation in addition to qualoty and size. Like her I am working with my SFDS to improve color and each generation. I never pair 2 DS together. I have been pairing them with either normals or WF normals. I made the mistake of putting pearl and pied into them 10 years ago and I have been working to get those mutations out of the DS.


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## mwag (Jul 12, 2009)

That one is beautiful! When I purchased the parents to these babies I had never seen show quality sized cockatiels. It is amazing the difference it makes. My goal is to also produce the show quality while trying to improve the color mutations. I have a picture of my hen in the nest. This isnt the best picture of her but I figured I would show you. She is still pretty young (a little over a year) so I suspect she will ligten up in color as well.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I didn't see her in the link...can you post the pix? I would love to see her.

As to your pearl pied babies...they are beautiful. i love pieds


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## mwag (Jul 12, 2009)

lol...sorry I actually forgot to put the link up...that other link was just what I added for a signature.

Like I said they arent the best pictures but here are some I took earlier. The flash wipes her out a bit since it was so dark in the room when I took the pictures.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/100_5293-1.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/MMWWM/100_5298.jpg


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes...I can see a little dilution to some of the centers of the feathers on her back. During the day have the flash of and try to take a pix.

Here are some pix of past DS I have had. With the hen in the first pix it is hard to tell is she is DS or not because of the brown tones. I leanred early on another color you MUST NOT mix in with domiant silvers is cinnamon. When cinnamon is in there it makes it hard to tell what they are. This bird did not have any cinnamon in the background...but does look like a diluted WF cinnamon pearl pied 

Next is a WF-sfds-pied. His only redeming factor is that his color is a silvery tone. But being pied all the classic DS traits are lost.

Next is a WF-SFDS pearl...which fortunitely some of the DS traits are present. He was also a male and when he lost his pearls he was beautiful.

And last is Nova, one of my favorites that escaped and flew away several years ago. He was a sweatheart and I hope he flew into someones arms that would love him and give him a good home.

As you can see there is such a wide variance in DS. they are an interesting mutation to work with.


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## mwag (Jul 12, 2009)

Those are all very pretty. I'll get some more pictures of her and post them soon.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Please do...she looks like she is a very pretty hen


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## Birdlette (Feb 25, 2009)

I'm not a breeder but just wanted to say how gorgeous the marking on the oldest bird's wings are in the picture where they are spread out... Awesome! Not ever having had a pearl mutation bird or even seen one with wings spread like that I never realized how beautiful the pearl markings are...


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