# Lutino pairs and white and grey pairs, are the allowed to mate with the same colour ?



## westie (Aug 15, 2012)

I have a lutino female (I think shes a female) and a pied lutino male (Ithink he's a male cuz hes very talkative)

And I also have a male white and grey and a female white and grey they were sold to me as a pair.

Is it ok for these colours to mate together ? or should they be paired with one of a different colour ?


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

lutino to lutino, no

grey to grey, yes.

a good thread for you to read:

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=17072


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## westie (Aug 15, 2012)

Even if one of the lutinos is pied ?


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

no because both are lutino. thats a like to like pairing and is one of the worst pairings. you will get more dead chicks, more dead eggs, bald spots, smaller babies, weaker babies and generally wont do well at all.


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## westie (Aug 15, 2012)

ohhhh bugger .... 

How do you get lutino chicks ? if I paired both of these lutinos with normal grey teils would there be lutinos ?


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

if you pair the female grey with the male lutino you will get female lutino babies.



the lutino female with the male grey, you will only get grey babies if the male isnt split to lutino and you could get other mutations depending on what splits they carry.



we have lots of excellent breeding articles which i think might interest you  it would be wise to read them before you start breeding


here is the section, nearly all those threads will benefit you and your birds  just take the time to do lots of reading and research before breeding, there are a lot of things involved that many people may not think about at first.

http://talkcockatiels.com/forumdisplay.php?f=33


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## westie (Aug 15, 2012)

Here are some pics of the birds, maybe you could clarify theres colours for me ?


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## westie (Aug 15, 2012)

DallyTsuka said:


> if you pair the female grey with the male lutino you will get female lutino babies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Im definatly keen to do alot more research before I breed them


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

1st is lutino
2nd is pied (NOT lutino).... he might be a cinnamon pied can you show me a photo of his back and wings? 
3rd whiteface cinnamon pied
4th whiteface pied



you can pair the lutino with the pied


but i would not pair the other two because they are both whiteface and both pied


you dont want to pair the same kind of mutations together.


you only have one lutino


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## westie (Aug 15, 2012)

heres his back


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

ok he is a cinnamon pearl pied male. hes a boy for sure. hes safe enough to breed with the lutino, but its not the best colour combination for other reasons. 

can you get a photo of the back of the last bird?


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## westie (Aug 15, 2012)

Here ya go


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

he is a boy too as he is split to pearl


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## westie (Aug 15, 2012)

wow your clever !! 

how can you tell that by the colour ?


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

look at the dark grey spots, the middle of the grey feathers on his back are faded.

he is split to pearl, meaning he carries the hidden gene.


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## westie (Aug 15, 2012)

Thankyou, thats all sounding very complicated and a little over my head at the moment  Can you tell the pied is a male for the same reason ?

and the cinnamin white face, do you think that may be a girl ? 

The lutino obviously doesnt have any stand out colour features to tell if thats a male or female does it ?


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

for the cinnamon pearl pied, he is a VISUAL pearl. his pearling is very vivid to be a split, so he is more likely a visual. he is a boy either way.


the lutino, how old is she and does she have bars in the tail and spots in the wings? colours mean little with gender in cockatiels.


the other WF cinnamon pied, if over a few years this bird is more likely female, its almost impossible to sex most pieds.


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## westie (Aug 15, 2012)

for the lutino those bars and spots do I have to look under the tail and wings to see those ?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Yes the barring will be under the tail and the wing spots will be on the under side of the wings.


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## westie (Aug 15, 2012)

Hmmm they arnt the tamest of birds might wait untill I have someone around to give me a hand with that


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## westie (Aug 15, 2012)

Ok, so dally tuska, why would you not recomend breeding the lutino & the pied ?

And definatly not pair the two white faces together ?

could the white face and the lutino female pair together ?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> Ok, so dally tuska, why would you not recomend breeding the lutino & the pied ?


This isn't a horrible pairing, its just that the pied is cinnamon and cinnamon affects the color of the lutino when it feathers out, giving it a beige wash.



> And definatly not pair the two white faces together ?


WF to WF is not recommended because its a like to like pairing but its definitely not as bad as say lutino to lutino.



> could the white face and the lutino female pair together ?


Yes, this would be a good pairing and the pied would strengthen the crests of the babies.


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## westie (Aug 15, 2012)

Ok thanks for that, what likely colours would you get with the male white face and the lutino girl ?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

If the male isn't split to anything you'd get (I think Dally said he was a pearl right?) pearl girls and normal grey boys. If the lutino girl is split pied, you'd also get some pied babies. And if she's also split to WF, you'd get some WF babies. So there is a lot of possibilities with this pairing.


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## westie (Aug 15, 2012)

Thankyou, when Im ready to breed  that will be quite exciting to see the different colours


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

The surprises in the nest box are the best!!!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Your cinnamon pearl pied male might not actually be pearl. Cinnamon fades in sunlight, and your birds look like they're in an outdoor aviary so those feathers might have faded cinnamon rather than ghost pearls. Here's a photo from srtiels' website at http://s525.photobucket.com/albums/cc331/Mousebirds-and-more/Other birds/?start=all It's more dramatic than the coloring on your bird:










With the cinnamon pied/lutino pairing, there won't be any lutino babies at all unless the male is split to lutino. If he is, then any lutino daughters will be cinnamon lutino and will have the "dirty lutino" look caused by the cinnamon wash. Any lutino sons will be lutino split cinnamon and will look clean.

The general advice in the cockatiel community is to avoid pairing lutino to lutino but there isn't any common advice on avoiding other pairings. srtiels recommends not pairing like to like and especially not doing it for several consecutive generations, and she knows what she's talking about. But it won't necessarily end in disaster if you breed your whiteface pied birds together, there's just a higher probability that the babies won't be as robust as you'd like. No one knows how high this probability is. The more diversity your adult birds have in their ancestry (meaning recent ancestors who were NOT visual whiteface pied) the better your odds are of having a good outcome.


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