# In total shock EXTREMELY upset EXTREMELY!!!!



## Guest

I had to fly to NYC on business for 6 days and took my bird to the usual woman to watch him. I just picked up my bird and noticed something seriously wrong. My tiel is fully flighted and this woman had the nerve to cut my birds wings off without my consent!! Now he drops like a rock and nearly cracked his chest. He can no longer fly at all, just drops like a rock!!!!!!!!!!!

This woman KNOWS my tiel is fully flighted and that I do NOT ever want to have his wings clipped. Yet, this JERK of a woman went ahead and decided to trim my tiels wings completely off WITHOUT MY CONSENT. And she KNOWS I have fully flighted tiel and under No circumstance wanted his wings clipped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am FURIOUS. I have NEVER been more upset in my life. This woman had NO right to do this!!! I am in total shock right now. Something else wrong with my tiel, he is not acting normal and I need to take him to the vet ASAP. I left this woman voicemail to call me ASAP right away!!! This is totally unacceptbale and she will NEVER be allowed to watch my tiel again.

It is DISGUSTING this happened and she did this!!! I am FURIOUS!!!!!!!

NEVER AGAIN!!! I do not trust other peple taking care of my animals!!!!


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## Tequilagirl

Urgh, that's terrible. I would give her an earful too! If I was to trust my bird to someone who wasn't a confident handler I would rather they just kept him in the cage than cut his wings.

Not a lot one can say other that I hope he moults soon..


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## amberwydell

That's disgusting... I'm always so weary about leaving my pets with other people, for this reason exactly. I hope you had a right go at her (I would have)! Poor little thing


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## Guest

I am very worried, he went from being fully flighted to dropping like a heavy ROCK!!! so she must have trimmed his wings off??? otherwise something is seriously wrong. I'm on the phone trying to get vet appointment right now on a sunday taking him to emercgency clinic. I am so upset.

His wings were shortened by me 2 weeks ago 9in order to make putting the flitduit on easier)... so he always looked "clipped" but was fully flighted ebcause all his flight feathers were NEFVERE trimmed off by me.... looks like she cut them off comepletely even thoguh I told her NOT to!!!!!!!


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## Tisena

That horrid creature!!!!!!!!! I'd never clip my own birds wings* let alone someone elses!
I'm not going to go into a full on rant because I fear I couldn't keep my words family friendly...

I don't trust many people with my tiels and it's a blessing if I do...infact I'd say I'd only trust my mum and a gentlemen I know who has 4 tiels 


*Unless is was required for them to heal from something, hoping it never happens but if it does I'm almost prepared for it


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## Kiwi

I would be furious too if that had happen to my baby! I've had to chew my family out before when I was gone for five days and they didn't give Kiwi anymore food than when I had left because "it looked full enough", hulls guys, hulls!! Who would even think to trim another person's 'tiel? I hope she at least knew how to clip wings so she didn't seriously damage him! 

I would definitely have gotten him checked out like you're doing. If he's used to flying he could have seriously hurt himself. While the woman was clipping his wings he could have hurt himself trying to escape. Lucky he didn't split his keel open, I've seen pictures of that, not pretty. >.<

Ask the vet if you think he fractured anything. One of those falls could have really hurt his keel. I am so sorry this happened, people mean well but they don't always think. I don't know what that person was thinking at all, but she shouldn't have done that.


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## Pippitha

wait, she chopped his wings OFF? :blink:
I'm surprised he's ok then, you should definitely go to emergency with him.


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## Guest

I just bird dropped my bird off at the vet I was in tears.
This bird is my best friend very upset. 
and the woman denied everything she flat out LIED about cutting his wings.this is the same as if you went and spent the night somewhere and woke up bAld and the person denied shaving your head bald. my bird could have gotten very seriously injured big time this was not right I am so upset right now it is unbelievable they have to keep my bird overnight at the vet


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## Kiwi

How bad was the trim like almost all the way to the skin or?...

Why does he have to stay overnight? I'm really worried now. Poor baby.


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## TamaMoo

What makes it so much worse is the fact you trusted her based on previous experience with her. I hope your little one isn't hurt in some way and that he molts and grows out quickly.

Is there family or a trusted friend you can leave him with next time you have to go out of town? This is as damaging for you as it is for your little guy, since your trust is now shattered. 

Hugs from Joey and me for both of you.


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## Guest

I'm back home now, they are keeping my tiel overnight to run some tests. The tech says he might have fractured something because he's also acting sick. He was not himself since I picked him up... not at all.

They also said it is OBVIOUS his wings were cut by someone (ALL his flight feathers have been perfectly cut off!!! yet he had ALL his flight feathers when I dropped him off, so OBVIOUS she had his wings butchered making himm drop like a rock slamming into the floor!!... I'm referring to a very severe trim... beyond buthered). I showed them what he looked like 2 days before the woman watched him (I had picture)... and what his wings look like now after picking him up from that woman watching him. It is night and day. It is very OBVIOUS she is lying. 

The woman said that my tiel spooked one night while she was watching him and that he was thrashing around in his cage. I suspect he injured himself during that time... then she took him to the vet and the vet she took him to trimmed his wings. Yet, she is choosing to LIE about it!!! She flat out DENIES everything. Beyond infuriating that she is LYING about what happened to my bird whenj is it BEYOND OBVIOUS. This is plain crazy.

I have to leave on an important business trip back to NYC from FL for 5 days this weekend. I desperately need to find a good place who can watch him while I'm gone. I'm going to take him to a vet so they can watch him.

I love this little bird. He really is my best friend. Very upset and totally p***ed this woman is flat out lying about everything!!!!!

WHY would someone lie about something this serious. Awful, my bird could be seriously injured. I have to go back to the vet later today to see the vet because she's not in yet today... I was just speaking to the tech there.

And get this, she said "well, his wing feathers might have fallen out when he got spooked in his cage that one night". 

Can you believe this??? ALL his flight feathers did not "fall out"... she had them butchered off in a perfectly straight line!!!


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## Guest

When I calm down and get my bird back I will show you guys the before and after pic of what my tiel looked like. Totally obvious.

I am in total freak out mode here (because he was also not acting normal), I don't know if he's been seriously injured or not until tomorrow. Not happy.

I am so upset now I cannot even work. I am worried be broke something or is badly injured.


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## Kiwi

Don't worry I think we all get birdy freak out mode. :lol:

I totally went through that with Kiwi at the emergency vet and every other time she is sick.

I would say it was probably on a rib or his keel if he was fractured to affect him like that. If it is fractured when it heals it could be a little painful or arthritic in that area so you may want to talk to your vet about that.

If you want I can tell you the prices my vet had for a full body x-ray for Kiwi. They are pretty expensive, but worth it if you're worried. Of course they go under a little gas, not enough to fully put them under but it keeps them still.


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## Guest

devasteded!!! my tiel might not make it. Just spoke to the vet she said his feathers were cut down to the bone... blood everywhere... severe swelling. Bird is in incubattor was put on steroid antbiotics... vet said bid is not looking could.

I am in total shock right now. I am devastated sick. havine mental breakdown I am in crying hystercially this stupid womwn killed my bird!!! what the **** am I going to do my poor bird I am devastasted.
\
my bird might not make it. I feelmsick in shock.


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## CaliTiels

Juliet, I am SO sorry. What a stupid freaking woman to do this to your poor Lil' Rascal. I feel for you. But, he is still here, and he is a strong little guy. I guess all I could say is we all want the best. Try to take deep breaths...


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## Kiwi

I am so so sorry, hugs from me and Kiwi!! I didn't sleep for the entire night when Kiwi was away from me because I was so worried, the best thing to do is to reach out for support like you are now.

I'm just glad you got him to the vet, an emergency vet may not have seen him right away. That happened to Kiwi. So you've done a very good thing getting her to someone who could care for her right away.

I'm thinking the inflammation is just a response to the bleeding. I don't think he could have gotten an infection because blood would have washed it out. Praying for you both!

By cut down to the bone do you mean break the skin? I hope not and that it was only down near the feather folicle. Geez I would take pictures (or ask the vet to when he is feeling better) and make the woman pay for the bills. You could get the vet to testify that they were indeed cut and provide proof that you were out of town and she was watching them.

Can you ask the vet to give him some IV fluids or pedialyte? I think that he will make it. He's probably in pain from the inflammation and possible fracture, but pain killers and fluids will help him calm down and heal.


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## Guest

devastased. The police are coming out to my house. I am filing animal abuse. this woman saw my bird was severely injured bleeding did not bother to call me not once.

the vet told me when injury happened there was 100% blood everywhere... not possible not to be.

police coming to my hosue shortly. I am shock I dont knwo what im going to do. dont feel well.

here are picture of what his wings look like big hole in them full of blood. I am in ttoal shock I cnanot believe this is happnaing. and the woman is still LYING about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EXTREMELY worried my bird is not going to make it. vet said last cocktiel died in similar sitiuation. not what I needed to hear.


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## Kiwi

Ok definitely press charges. That's just plain irresponsible. I was thinking maybe just a moderate amount of blood, but that woman!... :censor:

Birdy comes first. Please please call the vet and ask for fluids if they're not giving them already. He must be very dehydrated since the blood holds a lot of water.


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## Kiwi

Oh.... let me help you find a lawyer. 

I'm just hoping he makes it. A good thing is a lot of the blood looks dried. Was he breathing hard when you took him in or just weak? If he was just weak then he has a better chance. Weak and breathing hard would mean he lost too much blood and was having trouble getting oxygen around his body because the blood carries oxygen.

I'm still thinking he has a good chance. I'm just hoping that the feathers grow back.


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## Tequilagirl

I am aching for you and Lil Rascal right now, I wasn't expecting anything like that.

Our thoughts are with you, wishing the little one a speedy recovery.


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## CaliTiels

Wow, no offence, but I just thought it was only a feather clip. Then I see... _THAT_. Wow. You have every right to be feeling what your feeling. That is awful... no, no... sickening. I know what animal cruelty looks like. I don't think it was very kind of the vet to tell you that, considering that you're understandably panicking. Lil' Rascal is a tough little man. I believe in him.

And another thing I believe in is justice. Sue the living life out of that woman for the pain and suffering for both you and your poor tielie


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## Guest

2 cops showed up they are useless... they are now going over to that woman's house to speak to her and then they are coming back.

My boss told me to ask the cops for the US attorney's phone number and address. I am in total shock all I care about is that Rascal lives and gets better. Then I can focus on this. I want to press charges to the fullest extent.

Right now I cnaot focus on this all I can focus on is that Rascal lives. Never in a million yrs did I thik this would happen or it would be THIS bad.


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## Tisena

Our thoughts are with you both, I hope it all turns out ok and that /THAT/ woman gets what she deserves


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## dianne

I feel terrible reading this.
I really, really hope the vet is able to help your birdie.
You are in my thoughts.


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## Guest

Has anyone here had a badly injured tiel in an incubator before that managed to recover? I am totally freaking out, ,major anxiety about my poor bird surviving.. The vet says my tiel is in an incubator. That doesn't sound too good?

Vet just called me I don't like this vet she is very abrasive.


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## TamaMoo

After seeing those pictures, my heart aches for Rascal, and for you having to go through the worry. She deserves charges for animal abuse. Although you can't focus on it, NOW is the time to pursue it, before time lapses and she gets away with it. 

As mentioned above, if you haven't already, see that the vet is giving Pedialyte or other liquids to get him hydrated.

Still sending hugs, healing thoughts, prayers and good vibes.


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## Guest

vet says she gave him fluids. The cops were compeltely unhelpful. they told me I have to file civil case aginast the woman. I will do that tomrorow on Monday, but I having hard time focusing on that... I am so worried about Rascal surviving and this vet did not comfort me at all.. she told me previous cockatiel with similiar injury died. I did not need to hear that!

I have not been able to eat anytihg all day, nor do any time sensitive work (which desperately needs to be done) for my upcoming trip... I am just sitting and waiting.


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## Tisena

The police are completely useless 80% of the time! I wish animal cruelty was one of their priorities to combat but they don't seem to give a rats bottom.

Hope he pulls through, and I know some tiels that have been incubated and survived from what the owners told me, is the incubator mainly an oxygen tank? An avian vet told me that the first thing they like to do is put birds in an oxygen tank to help them breathe


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## Guest

I don't know if it's mainly an oxygen tank... but the vet said she is putting food inside the incubator. Gave him fluids, steroid and antibiotics. 

I knew he wasn't acting normal when I picked him up and that something was wrong. Didn't realize it was this bad 

Not only did this woman lie to me, but she also flat out lied to the cops.


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## Bird Crazy

Oh my god, I'm so sorry!! My heart goes out to you and Lil' Rascal. That is so unbelievably awful. I will keep good thoughts for you and your birdie. Is this the vet you usually go to? Even if her bedside manner isn't good, she sounds like she knows what she's doing. Hang in there, and that woman needs to pay. You need to really stick it to her!


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## corgie

I'm so sorry! Try to get as much as you can against her to prove she is lying, its good that you took that picture of before/after you may want to continue to do that and record what happens, etc with the next caretakers just in case 

I'm really sorry this happened, and I hope he pulls though! Hopefully you can win the case as well I'd be extremely angry if this happened.


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## Kiwi

Did you show the cops the pictures of his wing?

If you plan to press charges you need dates and pictures. Lots of pictures. Get pictures of the blood in the cage. Did the police give you a statement from her?

An oxygen one would be great because of the blood loss.

Kiwi was incubated, she lost a decent amount of blood and was given painkillers and treated 2 hours after we got there... only when we signed and payed. I was furious, if I had seen that I wouldn't have paid. Blood down her leg, the bone was still sticking out and she was in so much pain, at least it had stopped bleeding. I thought because of their poor treatment she was going to die too. The next day, such a poor wrapping job and she was all bloody again. The wrap also fell off. They didn't even do an x-ray so she was also diagnosed wrong and it's caused so many problems now. If I could sue them I would, too bad they make you sign something... 

I hope it turns out better for Rascal!


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## Guest

I am going to be sick. The woman just admitted the injiury happend on wednesday... it is now sunday!!!!!!!!! are you kiddiung me!!! my bird is not going to make it!!! it's been several ddays!!! the vet said last cockatiel died because owner waited 3 days to bring it in!!!


why is this happeneing!!!!!! I feel physically ill.


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## Kiwi

Use that statement and sue her butt off!!!!!!! 

He is a survivor!! He has antibiotics in him now so that's good. Not good that he's been bleeding for that long. Unfortunately he's had wounds exposed for a number of days. The number one thing he would die of is infection right now. That inflammation might be infection then. Judging from the pictures I can definitely see the inflammation, it doesn't look infected. It's a little hard to tell with the dried blood though. The dried blood probably helped keep away some infection and acted like a second skin. I've seen worse on a dog at the humane society. his was a giant purple/green mess on a wound from possibly crawling under a fence. It was treated very well with antibiotics.

Ask the vet if he has any low level laser treatment he can give him. Or anything else that can boost his entire immune system. Definitely get oxygen into him if you can. For the laser treatment ask if he's done it before and he has the right one. Sometimes people buy the wrong ones and then it burns feathers!


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## Guest

I now have more evidence. The woman also admitted via text that when she noticed the bird was injured (on wednesday)... she simply "moved the bird into another room". This is what she just texted me.

Rather than calling me and rushing bird to the vet, she moved him to another room!!! what is wrong with this idiot!!!! Several feathers were yanked out by the root.. there was obviously lots of blood everywhere not to mention feathers!!! she knew bird was injured unless she was BLIND!

Not to mention I had lined the cage with white paper towels... blood would clearly show on it, since paper was placed under the one perch he always sits on in his smaller travel cage.


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## CloudySkies

I'm so sorry to hear about Lil' Rascal. I sincerely hope he pulls through. It sounds like he's getting the best care. If you can, try to take some deep calming breaths, slowly in the nose and slowly out your mouth like you're blowing out candals x 5 breaths or so. I know it sounds silly, but it actually causes a calming/stabalizing physiolgical response in your body. I know it's hard, but try to not focus on the bad that could happen but on the good that very well may happen. These little guys can look really bad and then turn the corner in a matter of hours and Lil' Rascal could very well do that! Try not to assume the worst, it doesn't do you or your little guy any good. Assume that he WILL get better, it's better for you and for him to do so. You can let yourself have a breakdown once the crisis has passed, you know? I know it's hard, I am having anxiety over the situation and I don't even know you guys.

I don't even know what to say about the pet sitter. I honestly am at a loss for words. One would think that a person would only have a pet sitting business because they love animals and one would also think that a pet sitter would know that her business relies heavily on word of mouth/reputation. It just makes no sense and it's so sad. I'm so sorry!


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## Kiwi

Check the trash can for blood papers if she threw them away. Or if there's a dumpster outside. Probably where they ended up. Unless she also was taking out your trash and it already came.

I would call the vet and update him on this immediately the amount of time he was left this way so he can adjust his treatment of him.


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## Guest

Kiwi, the below comment made me very nervous. The vet said he has an overwhelming amount of inflamation in both wings. why did that stupid woman wait 5 days!!!!! why didnt she call me!!!! I need to ask the vet of she thinks bird has infection. I wold feel much betetr if she said no... but what else could it be if it's so badly swollen? freaking out here badly!! 

I just got off the phone with the vet asked her if he has infection... she didn't answer the question. All she said is that he's on antibiotics. I then asked her again if he has infection then she said she is in emergency with other client. I don't like this vet he is very short on the phone and abrasive. I managed to tell her injury happened 5 days ago then she had to run before hanging up. This is a nightmare as it is now I have to deal with a very unfriendly vet!




Kiwi said:


> Use that statement and sue her butt off!!!!!!!
> 
> He is a survivor!! He has antibiotics in him now so that's good. Not good that he's been bleeding for that long. Unfortunately he's had wounds exposed for a number of days. The number one thing he would die of is infection right now. That inflammation might be infection then. Judging from the pictures I can definitely see the inflammation, it doesn't look infected. It's a little hard to tell with the dried blood though. The dried blood probably helped keep away some infection and acted like a second skin. I've seen worse on a dog at the humane society. his was a giant purple/green mess on a wound from possibly crawling under a fence. It was treated very well with antibiotics.
> 
> Ask the vet if he has any low level laser treatment he can give him. Or anything else that can boost his entire immune system. Definitely get oxygen into him if you can. For the laser treatment ask if he's done it before and he has the right one. Sometimes people buy the wrong ones and then it burns feathers!


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## Kiwi

Sorry. ><

I would try and see if she can get an antibiotic cream on the wounds if she can. One that has some antimicrobial products in it. The antibiotics would help treat any bacteria (common one is Cellulitis) that's causing inflammation, the cream would also help treat the surface bacteria causing it. I'm thinking most of the inflammation is from the bodies reaction to an open wound, but just in case.

Make sure to call her back and get a straight answer. :/


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## Guest

...and what really sucks is that I have to leave on a business trip which cannot be cancelled in a few days. I'll be gone Nov 3-7 (so I will be gone for 5 days)... then home for one week then gone again for 4 days, then I'll be at home for many months... this is worst timing I don't want to leave town in 5 days I HOPE he will be ok by then.

I hope it' not stressing him out too much being at the vet that much... wish I didn't have to leave town next sunday for 5 days!


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## Guest

if he has a fracture... from landing like a rock onto the tile... do you think the vet would know this? Not only were his wings butchered... but he was unable to use his wings at all due to the inflamation the vet said. So he literally hit the tile at least twice at full speed like a rock... really hard. I am worried he might has fractured something when he hit the tile.

Is it obvious if they have a broken spleen? I believe that's what I'm referring to... that bone in the front of their chest?


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## RexiesMuM

Poor baby , I would be absolutely furious . Hope he manages to pull through . Keep a record of everything don't delete any texts from her and call your cell provider and ask them for paper records of the text's between take lots of photos as well and ask your vet to keep records for you to use in court .


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## Kiwi

Do you have a trusted friend that you can get to stay over at your house while you're gone and watch him? You know, one you would trust enough to just give a key to your house and tell them to help themselves to the fridge?

You should get him a hospital cage or a big plastic see-through bin. His wings are like that already so he wouldn't be able to fly out. Go for like one that's higher than 9 inches. Kiwi was able to climb out of a 9 inch height one, but not the 13 inch I got her.

You could set up a laptop and use Skype to check on him whenever you want to. Make sure the person who is watching him knows not to move the laptop or turn it off. Also make sure that the laptop won't get overheated and crash or fizz out from not having ventilation.

The keel bone. that would be pretty obvious if it was broken I'd think. If the vet felt along it he'd know for sure. Also he would have trouble breathing if it broke. He wouldn't be breathing as hard if it was just fractured. For a fracture it's hard to tell you'd need an x-ray. Kiwi's full body one was around $300.


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## CloudySkies

I think you mean sternum. Did they do x-rays? If so, I would imagine the whole bird gets x-rayed instead of just a body part like they do on us humans, right? If so, then I'm sure the vet would see any fractures. Also, I'm wondering if they can assess for that kind of fracture by palpating... since you brought him in with unknown injuries, I'm willing to bet the vet did a head to tail assessment. I know that sometimes doctors wait to do an indepth assessment until a person is stabilized so the vet may be doing the same... giving Lil' Rascal fluids, food, warmth and quiet, etc and then do a more thorough assessment once he's feeling a little better.


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## Kiwi

Good point, their sternum and keel are very close together. I'm not sure which one she meant? Juliet here is a chart on cockatiel anatomy. 

http://feistyhome.phpwebhosting.com/skeleton.jpg


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## Guest

Vet didn't do any x-rays... is this strange? I will call her in 30 minutes to inquire about it again - she always sounds very aggravated on the phone.

The 17 inch travel cage my tiel was in while that woman had my tiel at her house is covered with blood splatters. You can also see a lot of his wing feathers which were yanked out by the root... the cage floor is covered with his bloody feathers.

I am so furious right now I cannot put into words. Cannot believe this happened and now my bird might die because of this horrid woman... who didnt even so much as call me when she knew my bird got badly injured!!! blood everywhere... feathers everywhere she knew!!!! then LIED about it and is now finally admitting when it happened... but she still refuses to admit what exactly happened and how/why he got so severely injured.

I cannot imagine what could have happened for ALL his flight feathers to be yanked out by the roots on BOTH wings leaving big bloody hole and skin exposed and worn down??? She was also watching dogs... maybe he got attacked by a dog?


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## Kiwi

I think when he is so injured and stressed it would be a bad idea to x-ray right now. Maybe if he looks better tomorrow. He might not wake up from the gas or the stress could make his condition worse. Fractures for other parts are pinned, I don't know if you can pin that area? Maybe they can wrap it. 

Take a picture of it. You can't deny you didn't know in court when there's blood everywhere. That lady...


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## CaliTiels

Juliet said:


> I cannot imagine what could have happened for ALL his flight feathers to be yanked out by the roots on BOTH wings leaving big bloody hole and skin exposed and worn down??? She was also watching dogs... maybe he got attacked by a dog?


Could be, it's great that you've began to think logically now. Any ideas at all at this could be the key to his problem. It very well could be. But, you said there was a straight cut down the feather's path, so it seems more likely it was cut by her. The hole where the blood flows might be from him chewing the itchy healing skin around it and it opened the wound again


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## TashaSha

I'm so sorry... I hope your friend will make it. All the best..


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## Guest

I have not been able to move from this chair... I'm just sitting here freaking out.

I want to ask this vet about the other tiel she said died in similar situation because the owner waited 3 days before bringing him in.

In may case... there was a 5 day delay (so much worse!). I want to ask her if that tiel's injuries were as bad as my tiels and how many day after did the tiel pass away. That vet sounds very aggravated on the phone all the time, I feel uncomfortable to call her now to ask that question. Plus, that wouldn't affect the outcome anyway... I'm just trying to grasp for anything that will make me less worried! 

Having mental breakdown over this =(

I like to hear "your pet will be just fine"... NOT "I honestly don't know".


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## Kiwi

Make sure to get her before the hospital closes.

Well since the vet is being kind of grouchy... maybe just say that you're sorry that you're calling so much, but that you're just worried and talking to the vet puts your mind at ease. Then ask her your questions. Or if she can't talk ask her when she can.


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## Guest

Ok, this was a mistake! I just called the vet and asked her about that other tiel who died because owner waited 3 days before bringing him in.

I asked her if that other itel's injuries were as severe as Rascals... she then told me my tiels injuries are actually much worse and with worse inflamation, plus my tiel was forced to wait 5 days before getting help because of that STUPID woman!!!! =(

Now I feel even worse than before and I didnt think that was possible.

and this vet again was VERY aggravated on the phone, very much. I spoke to her a total of 30 seconds. This vet is horrible. I apologized about claling her asked if she ha d aquick minute... said YES but then was aggravated on the phone so I got off quickly as possible. My pet is dying and this vet EXTREMELY unfriendly and annoyed with me on the phone.

I felt so uncomfortable on the phone with the vet I forgot to ask how many days after that other tiel was admitted did it die.


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## SlightlyNorth

Oh my goodness... I'm coming into this a bit late but dear gosh that is absolutely horrible. I cannot even express my thoughts right now without using words that are not allowed on this site. That makes me completely sick.

I noticed that you said she was keeping other animals.. dogs? I think that you could be very right about one of them maybe being responsible for the damage done. I also think that it is a very likely reason for her "moving the cage to a different room." So she moved the cage to another room to be away from the dogs, but too late. It is absolutely unacceptable and just despicable that she did not call you immediately or even tell you the whole truth!! Ughh, as I said before, I'm just absolutely sickened.

I did some searching, and found this website:
http://www.animalrightsflorida.org/ReportAbuse.html

I think that you should maybe give them a call? Not only do I think that there is NO WAY that she would be able to keep any animals after this if you give them proof of what happened, but I think that they would probably be helpful about what to do next. Whether that action be taking legal action or what, I would ask them what they recommend and see what they have to say. Hopefully I'm right and they'll be helpful to you!

Another thing I would try is going onto Facebook if you have one. If you're a part of a parrots group in Florida (or if you can find one) I would post on there about the situation. It raises awareness, and someone might have more helpful advice in a group like that. Maybe they've even been in similar situations or know who you're talking about!

I hope this information helps, and I really hope that L'il Rascal recovers quickly. Praying for both you and the little guy.


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## CaliTiels

Juliet said:


> I felt so uncomfortable on the phone with the vet I forgot to ask how many days after that other tiel was admitted die.


Juliet, it's better you didn't ask. You don't need to hear any negativity right now in your state. You are very concerned about Lil' Rascal's life, and you have to be, but you are looking at the opposite end of the spectrum. It will be a good start to not stress over the other tiel. That's not your tiel. You didn't know anything about it. It could have been malnourished, already sick or anything. We know Lil' Rascal is well loved by you, very muscular from all his years of flying, fit, a healthy weight, fed an all organic diet, you take amazing care of him! And you love him very much. I believe in him. He is a very strong little boy


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## Guest

thanks for all the responses.

sorry for posting so much don't know what else to do.

Now that I think about it, considering how many blood splatters there are in his cage along with all the pulled out bloody wings feathers on the cage floor... it appears the injury happened in his cage. But how is the question. 

I guess it doesn't matter. I just need to try to hang tight until I manage to get another update on him tomorrow. I want my little bird back. he is my best friend, I am so worried =(


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## CaliTiels

I know. It's ok. 

My animals are my best friends too


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## Mayra

Omg, poor Rascal. I'm sending my best wishes his way. I keep one tiel too who is very bonded with me and I'm very bonded to her. She follows me around the house, eats with me, naps with me. I'd be so devastated and furious if I was in your place. I nearly kicked out a guest when she purposely aggravated my tiel. I think everyone here knows that these birds can be our best friends and family. I'm so sorry this happened you and Racal. I hope he recovers and goes back to his old self sooner than later.

Make sure he gets the best treatment possible and save every vet bill for that irresponsible woman to pay.


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## moonchild

I have no words for how this thread makes me feel. 
(Well, I do have some choice words for the woman responsible, but they aren't appropriate to post here).

My thoughts are with you and Rascal.


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## slugabed

Yikes, that's terrible. I'd be in tears myself. I hope Rascal will pull through!


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## Bird Crazy

I hope you get some sleep tonight! I'm so sorry. I hope tomorrow brings better news. I wish your vet was more understanding and open to communication. That's so hard. My heart goes out to you.


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## Kiwi

I'm thinking that the dog must have scared him really bad and he bolted around the cage banging himself on the bars.

I hope you don't mind, but I made a link for people to wish for Rascal's recovery. This is what helped me overturn Kiwi's diagnosis I believe. When I was so depressed and stressed over what was happening, it helped to see how many people were praying for Kiwi. I hope I'm not pushing my beliefs or anything onto you, if I am I'm sorry, but I think anything to better his chances.... 

http://www.onlineprayerworks.com/prayer.php?id=439902&affid=ktis&page=1&tag=&tag2=&tag3=

Many people have been moved by Rascal already when I checked just now. That's a good sign to me. Keep hoping and praying, don't lose hope for him.


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## tielbob

Bird Crazy said:


> I hope you get some sleep tonight! I'm so sorry. I hope tomorrow brings better news. I wish your vet was more understanding and open to communication. That's so hard. My heart goes out to you.


Same as my sentiments. 

Also, forget about that other bird as said by Calitiels.

Hope Lil'Rascal gets better soon!


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## Guest

Thanks for all your responses. This forum has been a big help. It's now 4:30am cannot sleep at all have too much anxiety, heart keeps racing and I'm in tears worried sick Rascal might not make it. I love this little bird. This is just horrible =(

My mind keeps racing on what might have happened. Lady said she woke up in middle of the night to do something in kitchen, Rascal then freaked out. This is what she claims. If that's the case she should have immediately turned all lights on to have him calm down. I think she just left the bird the crash and thrash about in the cage for who knows how long. Just terrible. I still don't understand how he could have yanked ALL his flight feathers out of both wings, if this is really true.

I know there's more to the story. There has to be.

I'm just having anxiety waiting for it to be 8:30am so I can call the clinic to see how he's doing.

PS: Thanks Kiwi, I appreciate it.


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## SilverSage

No matter how it happened,press charges. Number one, she needs to be stopped from hurting other animals. Number two, she needs to pay for this cruelty. Number three, a lawyer may be able to light a fire under your vet. Number four, she should have to pay for your vet bills. Get a lawyer. Now.


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## Guest

I told my boss what happened. He said I should call the US attorney and set up appointment: https://www.google.com/search?q=561...la:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

... and if that's not the right place I will find out tomorrow. It is horrible what this woman did. She KNEW my bird was severely injured and just left it to be like it was nothing. This was way too severe of an injury with tons of blood/feathers everywhere for it to go "un-noticed". I actually have told her numerous times in the past he's gotten bad night frights in the past (twice so far) and instructed her on what to do if it happens. She did NOT listen nor did she call me!!


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## SilverSage

Selfish people do evil thinks. I am so angry for you and you bird!


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## Vickitiel

Just caught up on this thread. I am at a loss for words... this is just horrific. I sincerely hope the vets are doing all they possibly can to save Rascal and that Rascal will hang in there. The offender needs punishment -- after seeing those photos it's obvious this was no accident and she had no idea what she was doing with those scissors. Totally horrific, and sickening. I'm praying for Rascal and for you, Juliet.


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## yokobirdie

Oh no! I'm so sorry for Rascal! Sending scritches from me and Yoko. I recently had someone do a light, temporary trim on Yoko because she flew smack dab into a wall and hurt herself, but never would I do something so horrible! :censor:  I would *NEVER* do something like that! Horrible person! And you should definitely press charges!


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## Guest

Just got update from vet I am rushing over there because the vet says "bird seeds are bad for birds" and they must eat pellets. This is a nightmare. Thie vet is a total nightmare. Rascal is not eating at all and losing weight because they are feeding him pellets. He will not eat pellets!

He eats organic cockatiel bird seed mix from bestbirdfood.com with Harrison Foods mash sprinkled on top. The vet says I am not feeding my tiel a healthy diet and proceeded to lecture me. This is absurd!!

I am rushing over there is give them the food he usually eats or he is going to starve. This is ridiculous. He is battling for his life and must be well fed and not starving because he will not eat the pellets they are giving him.

The tech there said he is walking around, but not eating. I told the vet he will NOT eat pellets, she would not listen to me. I am going over to the vet;s now. 

After this, I will have to find a decent bird vet. For someone to say I do not feed my tiel a healthy diet because I am not feeding then roundybush pellets (whatever it's called) is ridiculous.

What does the vet think Harrison Bird food mash is??? it's mashed up pellets of course! I am rushing to the vet to bring food before they starve him to death!

This is very upsetting.


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## yokobirdie

Oh no. That vet sounds like a pain in the... well, I'm not going to say it, but I think you know what I mean.


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## Guest

Confused! when I showed the vet a picture of what my tiel looked like before the injury, the vet also lectured me that I cut my tiel wings wrong and that you should NEVER shorten a tiels wings by trimming off a couple inches. What on earth???? 

I trim my tiels wings by holding him as normal... and without pulling his wings out I would simply trim off the length of his wings to shorten them a little to make putting the flightsuit on easier and less stessful for him. Sure it looks ugly, but so much more comfortable for him when putting flightsuit on and he's still fully flighted with that short trim.

She reprimanded that I should NEVER do that. Say what!?!?!? She said a tiel's wings should never be shortened or trimmed without pulling the wings apart.

I the vet crazy or am I the crazy one? Here is exactly what my tiel looked like right before he was severely injured and lost all his flight feathers! As you can clearly see... all I do is trim off a little length off both wings (that's it)... the vet lectured me I did wrong and shame on me.

What on earth???

I HOPE Rascal will recover I then need to find another vet!


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## yokobirdie

Huh. I'm not the wing-trimming person, but what you're doing isn't wrong. That vet is highly opinionated.


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## Kiwi

Ridiculous. You're paying the money for his treatment and they're not helping by trying to lecture you now. If he won't eat anything, but seeds they shouldn't try and go setting him up on a pellet diet right now. They should give him seeds and maybe give him a little crop feeds of crushed pellets if they absolutely have to. Pellets are good for recovery since they have lots of vitamins in them. Make her listen to you or he's going to starve. :S


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## amberwydell

This vet sounds ridiculous... I'd take my baby somewhere else! It seems like they're more interested in lecturing you than actually helping Rascal! Poor thing


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## Mayra

All I see is a picture of an adorable, perfectly healthy and well loved tiel. That vet should be lecturing the person that actually butchered his wings and neglected him for days. She sounds very full of herself and insensitive. Definitely look for another vet, one that is knowledgeable about birds and professional enough to be courteous and understanding.

I do love how strong and healthy Rascal looks there. I have faith the big guy can pull through.


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## Guest

I am going to be sick. At the vets now vet says bird has developed Rhabdomyolysis. Not good! ! this is because the stupid woman who was taking care of Rascal did not notify me or take him to the vet. So he didn't make it in time he is not eating now they have to tube feed him. I feel very sick. has anyone here had a tiel that had Rhabdomyolysis and recovered? I am not handling this well and the vet is very cold. I reported this to animal control they are coming to my house then hers.


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## Guest

I brought him his usual food and demanded they feed him that. I also got to see him. He's very tired.


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## Guest

Vet taking more blood now to see how bad the Rhabdomyolysis is. I feel like this is my fault becayse I didn't realize he could no longer fly and he slammed into the tile really hard. I don't know what I'm going to do if he doesn't recover.


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## blueybluesky

omg, I am so sorry and can't believe how cruel someone can be to do that and not help him when it happened 
There is nothing wrong with the way you trimmed his wings and the vet should be more concerned with whats happening now and as for his diet, it's better than what mine eat, my vet knows I've been trying them with other food but doesn't lecture me about it, I would definately look into another vet. It's a good thing you are taking his usual food in for him I would assume that them trying to force him to eat a food he doesn't like while in this condition might stress him more.

Also try not to think about the other tiel who didn't make it to much and don't let the vet pull you down you have been doing everything right. All individual birds are different and Rascal is proving to be strong because he's still fighting now, you'd be surprised at what some animals can overcome and recover from and try to think positive so Rascal can sense good energy.
I am so sorry you are going through this and will be hoping for the best and sending heaps of good thoughts yours and Rascals way.


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## amberwydell

My thoughts are with you and Rascal. Stay strong <3


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## CaliTiels

This thread makes me sick. Like, seriously, sick. I would've punched the vet in her freaking face. What a jerk!

You definitely should find a kinder vet. Can't she see you're stressed out already? You need reassurance and support, not chastising. My heart goes out to you and Rascal


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## Guest

I was at the vet since 9am today, so about 4 hours and just got home. They gave him fluids, tube fed him since he won't eat and also took bloodwork to see how much damage he has from the rhabdomyolysis. I will know results of bloodwork by tomorrow I think.

They let me see him twice. Here's a picture I took of him in the incubator. He doesn't look good. He's not opening his eyes and slightly puffed up.

I could kill this woman with my bare hands for what she did to my bird. If she had simply called me when the bird was injured NONE of this would be happening!

That woman has NO business owning any birds or pets!! She has 2 birds and the authorities are coming to my house either today or tomorrow I will press charges and get attorney but right now I am sick to my stomach worried he is not going to make it!!! =( Never felt more sick in my entire life.

I am extremely worried since he has stopped eating on his own. When I stared this thread never in million yrs did I think my tiel would end up fighting for his life. NEVER.

I STILL do not know what caused the injury because the woman LIES and will not tell me!!!!!!!!


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## TamaMoo

Joey and I are still sending hugs, prayers, scritches and love to you and your sweet Lil Rascal. As much as you need to focus on him, you also need to be able to focus enough on getting justice for Rascal and preventing any other birds/animals from being left in her care. I know that isn't easy when worrying about your little one, but she needs to be stopped. Bare hands aren't the answer, although I understand your desire to do so.


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## Jaguar

Channel your anger & frustration into the motivation you are going to need to show this woman the true consequences of her actions... animal cruelty is still a highly overlooked and under punished crime, and you are going to need all the determination in the world to stick it through when they try to give you the legal runaround, hoping you give up or run out of money. Stay strong and don't give up... on your cause, or on Rascal.


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## Guest

Rage is finally started to kick in. I am still in complete shock and worried sick but now I am getting angrier and angrier. I just took pictures of the blood splatters everwhere in the cage. .. and when I say everywhere I do mean there is blood splatters everywhere in the entire cage. Here are some pictures. Blood platters on his cuttle bone and even a big blood stain on his toy's face! .... and the large opening door is just covered in blood.

You can clearly see the feathers that were yanked out of both wings. It is very CLEAR those were the wing feathers that were yanked out because of the way the wing feathers are cut. OBVIOUSLY because that is the way I have his wings trimmed.... it is so obvious.

I am so upset. This has made me sick. I am physically ill over this. I will be showing the below picture to the authorities as well as the injuries/wounds pictures on his wings/body.

It is beyond obvious the woman KNEW he sustained an injury, yet did not notify me nor a vet to help in time to prevent all this! I will not be able to handle it if Rascal dies. I won't. Noway. It cannot happen.


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## ParrotletsRock

Wow, I am so sorry for you and your baby.... this is so strange, I know if I was watching an animal and it got injured even if my fault I would contact the owner and seek medical attention immediately. I don't understand, did she think you wouldn't notice? Prayers for you both.


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## Guest

I guarantee she thought I wouldn't notice. 100% positive.


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## Jaguar

Wow, that is a LOT of feathers. Though for comparison, Phoenix bled a lot more when he broke a single blood feather in a night fright a few weeks ago (unless there was more blood you didn't photograph). The wound on the wings looks gruesome, though. Hoping for the best. Make sure you take pictures of EVERYTHING she says to you, with timestamps, and back the photos up! Hard evidence is your best shot here. Especially if you have proof of her lying/changing the story repeatedly as she seems to be doing.

And also, if this goes legal, it would be best to keep the details to a minimum - anything you say on here may be used against you, unfortunately. :/


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## Guest

I'm 100% positive there was tons of blood everywhere. She cleaned up a lot of it for sure. There was also dried blood all over his wings. Unfortunately, I never took picture of blood on his wings. You can see big blood splatter on that toy's head, she didn't manage to clean up because it stained toy with blood. There were big blood spots all over which she cleaned up... she didn't manage to clean it off the toy or cuttle bone. 

You can see on the cage door... it's covered in blood and I'm sure there was blood on the walls and floor that flew through the bars. She didn't do good job in clean up. Bird droppings all over the place too... caked onto the perch. I have to call vet in another hour for update or I'm going to lose it.


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## Mayra

That lady sounds so irresponsible and cowardly. She needs to accept responsibility for this. Rascal was under HER care. If an accident occurred from being careless she should have called you immidiately and taken him to a vet instead of hacking at his wings or whatever she did that clearly made him worse and then leaving him to suffer. You have every right to be so upset and to sue her. It makes me so upset to think that someone who is trusted to care for a cockatiel would outright abuse them and abuse that trust.


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## Guest

The vet actually told me today it looks like someone cut into his wigs with scissors because the line was too perfectly straight. She said the person who did it had no idea what they were doing. This is what she think. other than that... she has no idea what could have happened and cannot believe that woman is lying about what really happened and that I need to report it to the health department.

That was the wrong place to call though and I then contacted have animal control and they are coming out soon today or tomorrow and they will go to her house and also pick up my evidence. I feel horrifically bad this happened to Rascal and now he's suffering greatly.


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## CaliTiels

Rascal is a little fighter though. He's a very brave little man. Tell us if there's anything you'd like, we'll try to help out the best we can


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## amberwydell

This thread just keeps getting me more and more angry! I hope that that nasty woman gets what's coming to her... poor Rascal shouldn't have to suffer on behalf of her stupidity! Why on earth would you try and clip a cockatiel's wings when you have no idea what you're doing? Especially when that bird belongs to someone else! I'm absolutely fuming. I hope there's a light at the end of the tunnel for you... stay strong!


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## Guest

I just called the clinic for an update. The tech there told me not to feel bad if I need to call them for update and said another woman called them over 10 times a day to check on her pet.

The tech said blood results should be here within 2 or 3 days and the bloodwork will show just how bad his condition is and how bad his rhabdomyolysis is. The fact that he has rhabdomyolysis REALLY freaks me out because that is very serious as it can damage organs and cause kidney failure... and I guess the bloodwork will show how badly his kidneys have been damaged? 

If you read up on rhabdomyolysis it says it often results in kidney damage. Can kidneys repair themselves? I am having panic attack.

I forgot to ask the vet this question, do not want to call her she is rude on the phone not pleasant to talk to at all.

The next day or 2 will be the longest days of my life =(


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## ParrotletsRock

Sorry I have no idea about that condition and have never heard of it before. If it makes you feel a little better there was a tiel at our local bird rescue a year or so ago that had her wings cut off!! Some (insert suitible name here) tried to clip the wings and cut the actual wings off. Bones and all!! She not only survived but got over the trauma and learned to love a human again and went to her forever home.


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## Guest

ParrotletsRock said:


> Sorry I have no idea about that condition and have never heard of it before. If it makes you feel a little better there was a tiel at our local bird rescue a year or so ago that had her wings cut off!! Some (insert suitible name here) tried to clip the wings and cut the actual wings off. Bones and all!! She not only survived but got over the trauma and learned to love a human again and went to her forever home.


Wow, that is insane. What is wrong with people do such such insanely stupid things? I think the vet could be right. Perhaps she did cut his wings (also suspicious because of that weird slice in his other wing looks like scissors did it, this whole thing is beyond odd. Wish I knew what happened. Only Rascal knows the truth.


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## Kiwi

I am so sorry to hear that he's not eating and they think he has Rhabdomyolysis. At least they are crop feeding him so he can get his strength up, he might learn to like pellets after that who knows.

I haven't heard of a 'tiel that's had rhabdomyolysis, my brother had it. He had it for a long time, few months and developed compartment syndrome in his legs. He is a college track runner and thinks stress fractures over the years in his legs brought it on. All it does for him is make it a little harder to run unless he changes his running style, they said that was the way to fix it, or surgery. The change of pace worked for his though. Rascal could have gotten it from hitting his wings on the cage or something. I don't think it would set in that fast from just the fall.


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## Guest

On second thought, I don't think the woman cut his wings because if you look at that picture you can see his wing feathers were yanked out by the root. Vet thinks some fell out/yanked out then the rest may have been cut to try to even it out as a cover up... but I can see all were definitely not cut due to the feathers I found.

I am feeling freaked out maybe when he slammed into the ground before I realized he could no longer fly did serious damage since he slammed very hard into the tile... he wasn't able to open his wings to even try to slow the drop.


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## CaliTiels

Juliet said:


> I just called the clinic for an update. The tech there told me not to feel bad if I need to call them for update and said another woman called them over 10 times a day to check on her pet.


At least there's one friendly face there. That's something. I've been thinking about Rascal all day


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## Kiwi

I would go for an x-ray then when he gets better. The keel/sternum is a very hard bone. Birds crash land all the time attempting to fly, I don't think it did too much damage to that part. 

He's probably tired today because of possible infection and blood loss. Once he rests more I'm sure he'll feel much better.


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## eduardo

I am so sorry to hear about poor little Rascal  I am sending my best wishes for his speedy recovery. :hug:


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## Guest

I am incredibly upset with myself and feel like a complete idiot. I had problem with this woman in the past because she never cleaned his cage and had NO window stencils protecting him from flying into windows. However, after I told her she MUST clean cage and install windows stencils she did and everything was fine previous almost dozen times she watched him.

... but then suddenly this happens and she stopped keeping his cage clean this time. Not only was his cage FILTHY but now she did what she did and my bird is fighting for his life. NEVER in a millions yrs did I think something like this could ever happen.


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## sunnysmom

I'm just catching up with this. I'm so sorry. Sending prayers to little Rascal for a full recovery.


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## Bird Crazy

That woman sounds Like a complete lunatic. It sounds like your starting to blame yourself with the fall, with keeping him there, etc. Please don't do that. It is in not in any way your falt. You know you are the best mom you could be to Lil' Rascal. He knows that and he knows you love him. Keep that in your heart. I hope that his blood work is okay, and he starts acting a little better soon. At least the vet tech is nice, and other people call all the time too. It's only natural you want frequent updates.


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## Guest

I miss Rascal so much. House is beyond empty without him. I can't stand this. It's so bad I really really miss my bird and I've been crying nonstop. I was ALWAYS with him at home. Always on my shoulder or right next to me he followed me everywhere I go in the house literally every single time I leave the room he flew after me.

Beyond eager to know the blood results desperately hope they won't be too bad =(

And like all day yesterday, I'm just sitting in my chair wondering how this happened worried sick. He is still a "baby" way too young for this to happen and have his life shortened by this horrid woman. He has to make it.


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## tielbob

The incubator is keeping him warm, too, which is really needed. I think the vet is doing what's needed for Rascal so don't be too upset with her. Her 'bedside manner' may be lacking but if she's doing what needs to be done for the bird then just forget about personality issues and the like (the same problems arise with people doctors and I have to deal with that all the time since my parents are elderly. I always have to balance my justified reactions to poor medical care against possible consequences to the patient. There are doctors who will fire you and the patient just because they don't like your attitude - unethical as they are to do that. In Rascal's case I think they are giving him good care though so just put up with the *blah* personality.)

Hope you get some good news. He's young and a tough little guy so those are big strong points.

Lot's of people here are praying for you and Rascal.


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## Bird Crazy

That quiet house situation is the worst... I really feel for you


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## CaliTiels

It felt strange just having budgie chatter when my tiels were isolated from AGY. I missed their laughing and squeaky noises


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## Guest

The vet just called me. She says the bloodwork will actually be in tomorrow. If the bloodwork is bad, the bird's chances of survival are slim. The vet said it simply took too many days to get him to the vet because that STUPID woman would not notify me he was injured!!! I am fuming!!!. cannot believe this!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the DELAY of getting him to the vet is what is putting his life at risk, not the injuries... but the DELAY!!!!!!

Now my anxiety is at its worst... tomorrow is the verdict. That bloodwork, OMG better be not so bad. Biggest risk now is how badly his kidneys have been damaged. His condition can cause renal failure and we are know what that means.

and he's still not eating!! =(

The vet said NOBODY should EVER leave their birds with anyone but a vet when they leave town. She said she see's stuff like this happen all the time. Not exactrly like mine of course but serrious injuiries.

I feel so bad for my tiel.


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## TamaMoo

Still sending hugs and prayers. 

I wouldn't agree with the fact no one should ever leave them with anyone but a vet. There are trustworthy people out there.


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## Haimovfids

I have no words. I just wanted to let you know that my heart ached from reading this whole thread. GOOD LUCK! I have full faith that he will make it. Take deep breaths through your stomach. It helps with the panic


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## Kiwi

Hoping the best from the blood results tomorrow!
I couldn't sleep when she was injured or do anything really I was so worried. I just kept my phone next to me so I wouldn't miss a call from the vets. Things got worse before they got better, but they did get better. Eventually my little buddy was flying after me and sitting on my shoulder again. I hope Rascal will make a full recovery so he can play with you again!


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## Guest

I feel really sick that I have to leave town for 6 days soon (Nov 3-7) business trip which I don't think I can cancel. I feel HORRIBLE to leave Rascal for 6 days right now, worst timing ever. I have to leave in 6 days... and will be gone for 6 days.

If bloodwork results are bad, I need to try to cancel the trip somehow.

Kiwi, me too... I cannot do anything but sit and worry! =(


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## Bird Crazy

If you had the stomach flu and throwing up and all, would you still have to go? What if there was a death in the family? I don't know your work situation, but these are some of the things I ask myself when there are things I can't do for good reasons, even though they might be reasons others don't understand.


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## Mayra

I'm sorry you're so stressed and in such a terrible position  We're all hoping for the best results on his blood work. Do you have someone who can go visit Rascal at the vet's while you're away? I would be sending my best friend to FaceTime or send me videos everyday, but calling the vet often (or maybe just that nice tech) might be enough to help you through it. 
I've been extra attached to my tiel since I saw his thread. I can't imagine going through this. Sending all my best wishes to you and Rascal.


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## Guest

If he's not getting better during the next 5 days I must somehow get out of this business trip. If he's getting better that's one thing (I feel safer he stays at the vet longer period and cared for there just to be on the safe side), but I would feel horrible leaving if he was getting worse.

I don't have anyone to watch Rascal while I'm away. I really don't know what to do even if I'm here to help him. I saw him twice yesterday but he's inside an incubator and didn't see me. I'm going back tomorrow morning to check on him and see if he's doing better myself.

The fact that he's not eating on his own is a HUGE worry.


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## CaliTiels

Yes, I agree. If he isn't improving right away, this is not a good time to be away. If you're so stressed you can't even function at home, there's no way you can do work like this. Until your anxiety alleviates, I think you just need to rest


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## CloudySkies

Look, I'm the type to send my kid to school unless he's got a fever, bleeding or barfing. Same for me. But even I would take time off work if I was the only one who could do what needed to be done for a pet in crisis. It really is OK and it's also OK to not be honest about it and say your grandma was in the hospital or something because not everyone agrees with this sentiment and it would be ridiculously frustrating to deal with haters at work while you're dealing with this.

I hope he starts feeling better soon. I'm glad to see some millet and greens in his incubator, hopefully he feels well enough to munch on them soon. Could he not be eating due to just being stressed out, like when you get a new bird and they don't eat for the first few days?


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## Amz

Just caught up on this thread. I have absolutely no words. Just a shocking, sad situation. My thoughts are with you both. PM me if you need anything.


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## Tequilagirl

Hoping for the best and still sending positive thoughts, this is just so sad.


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## Guest

I am a nervous wreck. Going to the vet's right now to check on him this morning. I want to see for myself whether he's doing better or in same shape as yesterday.

I am not even going to bother calling them, I'm just going there now. The animal cruelty people should be coming to my house today, they said they will call first si I know they are coming.

I have to go to Staples to print out the images I have because my printer is laser and doesn't print color.... so the blood stains won't show up.


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## yokobirdie

Good Luck. I'm sure Rascal's healed a little bit.


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## Jaguar

It's probably for the better that you're just going in instead of calling - he's so used to being around you that I'm sure your presence is a lot of comfort to him. Crossing my fingers for good news today.


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## Guest

I just got back from the vet and he's doing a litte better... he's eating... not much but at least he ate!!!  they put millet sprays into his cage and said he was eating it today. He was sleeping with his head tucked the entire time I went to go see him... but they said he was walking around before I got there and is worn out because they handled him today... tube feed him (because he's not eating enough on his own) weighed him etc.

I whistled (tapped on window a little) and he did lift his head and sort of tried to chuckle. I think he recognized me.

He was 81 grams when he was admitted and now weighs 77 grams, so thankfully he's not lost a ton of weight. The bird vet wasn't in yet, but the dog/cat vet there is very nice (unlike that bird vet!) and he told me I should not be worried about the rhabdomyolysis, it's the infection he has that I should be worried about.

I told him what happened with my bird and he wasn't shocked. he then told me he has seen TONS of horrible things like this happen. He said someone he knows left thier dog at someone's house to be babysat and the person who was supposed to care for the dog left town with the dog in the crate for several days with no food or water. Dog was almost dead when owner returned to picvk him up from person's house who was supposed to be caring for their pet!! I no longer trust other poople NEVER AGAIN!!!

I will get the bloodwork back today which will show how bad his infection is.

I don't care if they think I'm a crazed person freaking out, I am going to go visit him again this afternoon before they close. The good news is that he is getting a little better but might continue to flauntuate... will know more later today keeping fingers crossed.

I just went to Staples and had them print all my evidence, because my laser printer at home won't print color. I am going after that STUPID woman for what she did!!!!!!!

I am very confused because the bird vet said rhabdomyolysis is VERY serious and now this other vet told me not to worry about it and that the infection is more serious?????????


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## CaliTiels

I'm SO happy to hear he's eating! :clap:


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## dianne

I am very glad that he is doing a little bit better. Wishing the best for both of you.


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## onyx

This whole thread is just unbelievable.... I am so, so sorry for everything you and Rascal are going through. I hope he recovers. <3

The woman who was supposed to be caring for him is sick. My stomach is in knots reading about it.


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## Guest

Once he hopefully has recovered, I will be finding a good vet who can watch him when I have to leave town in the future. I don't care how much it costs I will NEVER be able to trust anyone after this again. The reason I never wanted to have the vet watch him is because they would stick him inside incubator and that's where he'd be staying (all tiels stay in that) when owner out of town this vet told me.

I felt bad for leaving him stuck inside a glass box for several days, which is why I always wanted someone else to watch him who would let him out of his travel cage etc. Now this woman admitted she NEVER even let him out of that tiny cage for 7 days straight which defeated the whole purpose!!!

I must find some type of bird sitting service somewhere through a VET that will allow a much larger cage for him to be in while I'm out of town. I travel about 6 times a year and each travel is usually 5-6 days long.


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## SilverSage

I don't take my birds to the vet to board for several reasons, but I think if this happened to me I would! This person is so unbelievably selfish and cruel and evil!


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## Guest

SilverSage said:


> I don't take my birds to the vet to board for several reasons, but I think if this happened to me I would! This person is so unbelievably selfish and cruel and evil!


I too used to NEVER want to board my bird at the vet, but now I am beyond traumatized. Once he HOPEFULLY recovers, I really need to figure out who is going to watch him when I'm out of town. I must find a vet place that will allow a much larger cage for him to be in because I don't want to stuck in a tiny cage going stir crazy for 7 days never let out at all.

This is a problem that I will hopefully need to solve once he gets recovered.

PS: Just curious, what are your several reasons? My big reason is the one I mentioned above. Thanks.


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## SilverSage

Agreed.for now though the incubator is the behest place for him and will be for a while. I am fortunate enough to have a good friend (and a couple of very trustworthy backups. Including the breeder I got my tiels and Ringnecks from) who loves birds and takes care of my pets when I am gone. I am at her house all the time and know how well cared for all her birds are, and she lives nearby so my flock can stay at my home. I wish everyone had that option! I am still in awe at how this could happen! I own a pet services company and we do pet sitting and boarding, and believe me this kind of thing should never happen! If she has a business license, you should be able to file a complaint against it with the department of consumer affairs so that anyone researching her will know what she did.


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## Tequilagirl

Juliet, I was also against boarding my bird at the vets, but not because of being kept in an incubator, but because of the contact with sick animals. Your experience has made me reconsider though.

I've always been of the opinion that I don't care how my bird is kept temporarily as long as he's safe and fed and watered. After reading this I don't know if I will ever trust anyone to look after my bird.

Glad to hear he's eating a little. I really hope he goes on to make a full recovery.


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## Guest

Tequilagirl said:


> Juliet, I was also against boarding my bird at the vets, but not because of being kept in an incubator, but because of the contact with sick animals. Your experience has made me reconsider though.
> 
> I've always been of the opinion that I don't care how my bird is kept temporarily as long as he's safe and fed and watered. After reading this I don't know if I will ever trust anyone to look after my bird.
> 
> Glad to hear he's eating a little. I really hope he goes on to make a full recovery.



... and the vet told me there are constantly stories like this he hears of, so don't think mine is an exception. At first I thought it was, but after hearing all these other horror stories I no longer feel that way. Many people out there will just not care for your pet as much as you do unfortunately. They won't have mental breakdown if something happens to your pet, but you will... because it is your pet.

This stupid woman didn't even bother clean his cage at all the entire time, nor let him out for a breather, nothing... then didn't bother seek medical attention from serious injury. She tried to cover it up and hoped nobody would notice.


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## ParrotletsRock

I have my son who lives with me care for my birds... But if I paid someone to clean cages and let the bird out for supervised play and it wasn't done then I think I would be looking at a refund for at least partial services.. I don't think missing flight time for a few days is a terrible thing if in a decent size cage. Don't paint everyone by the same brush as this woman has painted herself.. Not all people are dishonest! However I think I would require references and talk to other customers. As far as boarding a bird goes I would worry about transmission of diseases anywhere but the vets especially. Happy to hear he is eating... Try bird rescues, some of them do boarding, but check them out first!


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## Guest

I called animal control again and they are sending someone out there in an hour.

I have all evidence ready.


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## RexiesMuM

Glad he is doing better  Infections can spread and I think that could be why the vet says it is more serious .


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## slugabed

There's still hope! 81 to 77 isn't too bad, and hopefully the blood test results will be good. Hang in there!


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## SilverSage

I'm glad animal control is on hue their way! Ugh! The worry about how someone is caring for your baby is one reason why I include a picture, sent by email or text, every day of the pet. If they are staying in their own home, is send it WHILE I am at the house, so the owner can have some peace of mind. I had someone watch my birds when I was gone when I was a kid, and they didn't clean the cages at all because when they tried, one bird got out, and the poor kids (we were all around 10 years old) was so terrified that he is still afraid of birds to this day  now I only allow bird owners to help me out, and only when I know how they care for their own birds.


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## Guest

The animal control officer just left. She took my evidence and then also took several pictures of it herself. The officer agreed there is noway the caretaker did not notice the bird's injury. There was simply too much blood everywhere. Not only that but the cage was lined with white paper ABOVE the bars, so blood would have been all over it. Blood was also on the bird! As mentioned earlier, she would have had to have been BLIND to not nitice such a severe injury.

Officer now going over to that woman's house. officer agreed with me how terrible this is and the woman SHOULD have notified me and taken bird to the vet!!!

Officer gave me paper to fill out which I must take to the bank to get it notarized. I will do that tomorrow. I am too worried about my tiel surving still and bad anxiety about bloodwork results.

The officer also reviewed all my text corrspondence with that woman where the woman clearly LIED. I am printing out those text messages as more evidence..


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## Guest

So cool, I just called the vet for update. Bloodwork not in yet... but they said he's been walking around more and even ate some grapes and watermelon (or at least I think that's what she said he was eating) Awesome!!

Sorry for posting so much, I'm just on edge here. Had to report he's actually doing better!


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## Kiwi

Like RexiesMum said, an infection is worse than rhabdomyolysis. Infections can affect all their systems really fast based on how their anatomy is. Rhabdomyolysis is kind of just in the affected muscle area, I don't think unless it wasn't noticed for weeks that it would affect the kidneys or go outside the muscle area.

I'm glad he's doing better today! He's already on antibiotics so that already started taking care of the infection. I'm hoping the swelling goes down soon. He's doing great!


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## Guest

Kiwi said:


> Like RexiesMum said, an infection is worse than rhabdomyolysis. Infections can affect all their systems really fast based on how their anatomy is. Rhabdomyolysis is kind of just in the affected muscle area, I don't think unless it wasn't noticed for weeks that it would affect the kidneys or go outside the muscle area.



I've learned a LOT more from the dog/cat vet today and your post than I have from that mean bird vet lady!

So now the infection is the main problem. I HOPE the anibiotics are able to help wipe it out in time.


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## Kiwi

I hope she can take time and explain more things to you about what's happening with him. At least he seems to be doing better in her care. 

I think the antibiotics will be able to, other people notice infections way later when their animals are in critical condition and those animals still survive.


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## CaliTiels

I'm so happy that this horror story is beginning to turn around


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## Amz

Fingers crossed. It's a great sign that he's eating on his own.


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## nassrah

Juliet My heart is with you and little Rascal . Believe me,I know how important these birds are for us, They are a very important part of our lives . Sending my best vibes for Rascal and you.Dont give up sueing this horrible woman,make her pay for all your bills and ,if possible,make sure that she ll never be able to sit for any animal,let alone delicate creatures like birds . Feel free to PM me if you want to contact somebody or to talk . . Please keep us updated . Be strong !He will pull through ! Hugs and kisses for you and Rascal from Brazil Teresa X x


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## Guest

I've pasted below what I'm writing onto the animal abuse case report. I was told to write in detail. The next step is filing a case with a state attorney who we are speaking with today to get this horrid woman to pay for all the medical bills. 

Below is what I'm writing on the report.......

I paid caretaker to take care of my pet bird while I was out of town for 7 days (Oct 19 - Oct 26). Pet was to be watched at caretaker’s house during those 7 days. My pet sustained a serious injury while under her care, yet the caretaker did not bother to call/text me or notify me whatsoever, nor did she rush my pet to the emergency clinic for medical attention. Thus, I was completely unware my pet sustained a serious injury while under her care and in need of urgent medical attention. I even texted caretaker on Oct 24 to ask how my pet was doing. Caretaker responded 30 minutes later saying my pet is fine and doing well. She did not bother to mention my pet had sustained serious injury.

I then returned home from my business trip and picked up my pet from her house (Sunday) Oct 26. I then rushed my pet to the emergency clinic as I noticed there was blood all over the cage, half his wings were “missing” as the feathers were yanked out of his wings by the roots (leaving 3 big bloody open wounds) and he was also acting sick (too sleepy, also went from being able to fully fly to dropping like a rock – both wings were completely unfunctional).

I questioned caretaker that same day as to what happened to my pet, she denied anything was wrong with my pet and claimed “nothing happened”. Upon further pressuring her for the truth, caretaker finally admits my pet sustained injury on either Oct 22 or Oct 23 at around 4 or 5 am (I have attached text correspondence as proof). Yet, caretaker did NOTHING. Further text correspondence shows her saying she basically moved my pet into another room in her house after he was injured. So, rather than notifying me and rushing my pet to the emergency clinic, she "moved him to another room" and left him be in pain, bleeding and in need of urgent medical attention! There was so much blood caretaker would have had to have been blind, literally, to not notice such a SEVERE injury. Not to mention my pet had dried blood on his wings when I picked him up from her house.

The caretaker's irresponsibility and negligence with my pet, which caused a 5 DAY DELAY in me getting him to the emergency clinic has caused life threatening complications to form. It is not the injury, but rather the 5 day DELAY in getting my pet medical attention that has now caused him to develop a bad infection, severe inflammation and Rhabdomyolysis. My pet is not eating on his own and being tube fed, given steroids and fluids and antibiotics. My pet is now fighting for his life due to the life threatening complications resulting in the 5 DAY DELAY in getting him to the vet because of the caretaker’s negligence.

This is totally unacceptable. The caretaker should have immediately notified me my beloved pet was injured. Any individual who shows this level of irresponsibility and disregard to an animal has NO business taking care of any living creature.


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## Tequilagirl

Preach it!


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## nassrah

Very well written Juliet . Stay strong ! Hope your little Rascal recovers soon . Fingers crossed ! All the best X x


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## sunnysmom

I'm glad Rascal is doing better. It's unbelievable that this woman could just sit back and do nothing while your bird was hurt. I'm so, so sorry you and Rascal had to go through this and hope that Rascal recovers soon.


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## Guest

I am going back to the vet now to check on Rascal and hopefully they have the bloodwork. It's almost 5pm. Where is it!? hopefully they have it by now this is driving me crazy. I'll take picture of Rascal for you guys - hoping he will still be improving.

I did keep thinking maybe she didn't notice Rascal was injured. But then how do you explain the fact that I immediately noticed all the blood on the cage, blood on his wing, fact that half his wings were suddenly missing (ALL his flights feathers on both wings!)... and that he wasn't acting normal (was way too sleepy and weird). Yet, she had him for 5 DAYS and she's home all the time pretty much. It doesn't add up. Noway. She had to have KNOWN.


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## Jaguar

She will play dumb until the end. She had to have known. If she cleaned up the blood, there's no way she didn't know where it came from. And if somehow she didn't know, that is a whole other can of worms called NEGLECT, not even checking on him for 5 days.... considering you even specifically asked her to let him out of his cage daily.


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## nassrah

Exactly Jaguar . The evil woman was completely careless about Rascal . I cant put in words how much I feel for Rascal and you Juliet.I wish from deep in my heart a good and speedy recovery for both of you and hope to see little Rascal happy on your shoulder again pretty soon . X x Teresa


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## CloudySkies

Juliet, if you haven't sent off that letter yet, I would definitely add what you and she discussed in specifics with regards to your expectations of his care. I would be very, very specific here, as in, "She agreed to let my pet out of his travel cage for at least 1 hour every day. She agreed to clean the cage daily, which includes (but is not limited to) replacing the paper at the bottom of the cage, cleaning the water bowl and refilling with fresh water, cleaning food dish and filling with fresh food." and so on. I think it just needs to be made very clear that she knew exactly what she was supposed to do and that she obviously did not do that if she is claiming she didn't know your bird was injured, so she's nailed either way for neglect. I absolutely believe she will attempt to say there was no agreement that she was to let him out every day, etc because that's really the only way her excuse works.


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## yokobirdie

Yay! Rascal is eating!


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## Guest

CloudySkies said:


> Juliet, if you haven't sent off that letter yet, I would definitely add what you and she discussed in specifics with regards to your expectations of his care. I would be very, very specific here, as in, "She agreed to let my pet out of his travel cage for at least 1 hour every day. She agreed to clean the cage daily, which includes (but is not limited to) replacing the paper at the bottom of the cage, cleaning the water bowl and refilling with fresh water, cleaning food dish and filling with fresh food." and so on. I think it just needs to be made very clear that she knew exactly what she was supposed to do and that she obviously did not do that if she is claiming she didn't know your bird was injured, so she's nailed either way for neglect. I absolutely believe she will attempt to say there was no agreement that she was to let him out every day, etc because that's really the only way her excuse works.



Thanks so much, good point! I will definitely add that.

Right now I am VERY upset. His bloodwork results came in today at 1pm... she was notified it came in a long time ago. It is now 9 pm almost and this vet never bothered to call me at all regarding the results when she promised she would. She knows how incredibly stressed out I am about the results because that will show just how bad of a shape he's in and how bad his infection is (I was at the clinic today but nobody there knew how to read the lab report! and this vet wasn't at the clinic at all today she was working at the other clinic far away from here, not good!). I'm positive she had at least 2 minutes she could have spared to at least call me and quickly update me today on Rascal's rather very serious condition!!

She is super rude and super unfriendly and very cold on the phone and will even snap at you! I need to find another vet FAST!

Now I have no idea what is happening... I contacted her, no response yet.


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## Mezza

OMG! Juliet, I have just logged on for the first time in a week or so and this is the first post I see.
WTF!!!!! 

Who was this woman that looked after Rascal?? Thats not a carer!!! Sorry, she's made me so angry and now the VET!!! 
Are you easily accessible to avian vets (sorry if this has been talked about, I just haven't had a chance to read all of the thread).

Skiddles and Louey are sending lots of birdy love to Rascal. 'Be strong little man'. xxx


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## Vickitiel

It's soo hard when the vets aren't nice, on top of the already tragic situation. You'd expect vets to be kind-hearted and empathetic animal-lovers, but clearly that's not the case. So disappointing, I hope after all this you are able to find a friendlier vet.

I'm thinking about Rascal often, and you are in my thoughts too Juliet. Sending scritches from me and my flock. *Hugs*


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## Guest

Really appreciate every single one of your responses. This forum has been a HUGE help. Thanks.

A tech from the clinic just called me. He said that only part of the results came in and I will have to wait until tomorrow until the rest comes in. I asked him if the bird vet has any inclination whether the portion that did come through, is bad or ok. He said she won't say until she gets the entire results in because they are checking his kidney's, liver etc for damage. Ok, I am again very nervous 

I do recall the tech glancing at the report he said some things were high and some low (things appeared out of range or something) I should have gotten a copy of the labwork... but he doesn't know how to read labs... and neither do I. So i just have to wait.


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## TamaMoo

Joey and I are still sending hugs, prayers and scritches. Fortunately, I can have my phone with me at work. so I keep checking the thread for updates.


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## Kiwi

That's not right to not update you when he's in such serious condition.

EDIT: Got rid of the report, it wasn't very helpful as it turns out. :wacko:


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## nassrah

Stay strong Juliet I hope you can get the results quickly. Do keep on this vet s neck ung dhe explains to you everything about Rascal s condition You have the right to knowIf you an find another vet for a second opinion do it but dont forget to ask this vet about the risk of transferring Rascal out of the Clinic hes at now.Sending my prayers to both Rascal and you X x


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## Bird Crazy

I'm so glad he's eating a bit. I hope he continues to improve and that you get good news tomorrow!


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## F0RSAK3N

I'm just now reading this thread, my prayers are with little Rascal to make a full recovery.


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## Guest

I'm going to go back to the vet this morning and insist I get a copy of the portion of bloodwork that came in so far. She could have at least told me whether the portion that did come in was way off indicating possibly serious issues or could just be expected "normal" bad results due to his condition. Vet still hasn't given me copy report of all his injuries and treatments. I really need that info today as I must mail it to animal protection and control if they don't receive it by tomorrow at the latest they will shut my case they said. 

And of course while I'm at vet I will see with my own eyes if Rascal doing better. He was very grouchy yesterday when I saw him at the end of the day when I put my finger towards glass he opened his mouth trying to bite through glass lol. I suppose that is a good sign because 48 hrs ago he was non responsive to everything not opening eyes and puffed up most of the day. So I take him showing a bad mood a good sign


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## blueybluesky

Looks like you have a tough little guy there, I'm so glad he's doing better and I hope the vet can get all the reports copied in time that you need


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## Tequilagirl

I'm so happy Lil Rascal is hanging there. I know you don't like the vet but to be fair to her, he seems to be doing well under her care. Maybe she just loves animals and hates people... I'm sure she's doing her best to get your lil bird back to full health.


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## TamaMoo

Juliet said:


> I'm going to go back to the vet this morning and demand I get a copy of the portion of bloodwork that came in so far. She could have at least told me whether the portion that did come in was way off indicating possibly serious issues or could just be expected "normal" bad results due to his condition. Vet still hasn't given me copy report of all his injuries and treatments. I really need that info today as I must mail it to animal protection and control if they don't receive it by tomorrow at the latest they will shut my case they said.
> 
> And of course while I'm at vet I will see with my own eyes if Rascal doing better. He was very grouchy yesterday when I saw him at the end of the day when I put my finger towards glass he opened his mouth trying to bite through glass lol. I suppose that is a good sign because 48 hrs ago he was non responsive to everything not opening eyes and puffed up most of the day. So I take him showing a bad mood a good sign


Insist they give you the paperwork you need. This woman can't be allowed to get by with this simply because someone doesn't have the two minutes it will take to give it to you.

Mom has always said you can tell when kids start feeling better when they get grouchy.They are feeling good enough to know they are sick and stuck in bed. I would definitely take a bit of a bad mood as a good sign.

Joey and I are still sending hugs, prayers and scritches.


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## Guest

I went to the bank today and got the case documents notarized and then I went to he vet. They refused to give me a copy or allow me to see the potion of bloodwork which has come in so far. Tech said the bird vet will not allow me to see it until ALL the bloodwork results are in. Bird vet wasn't there today... she doesn't work at that clinic full time, she just visits clinic few times a week. Her main practice is at clinic farther away from where I live.

I also wasn't able to see Rascal today. They wouldn't let me because they were busy dealing with something. The tech told me he's doing even better today than yesterday and that his crest is sticking up. They are still tube feeding him though. I will just have to take the tech's word that he's doing even better today than yesterday! 

What a tough bird! Imagine sitting around for 5 days with such severe injuries. You guys saw the pics of his injuries. Even the vet said his injuries were severe. Tough bird he is 

You guys think if the infection was life threatening he would still be IMPROVING like he is? I hope that is a really good sign that he might be completely "out of the woods" and very slim chance there will be serious issue?


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## moonchild

I'd say it looks very hopeful.  I rescued a budgie once for someone on another forum, and he had a severe infection. He had to be hospitalized for a week and tube-fed but he made it. If Rascal wasn't showing signs of improvement I'd be much more worried. Hope you can see him soon!


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## ParrotletsRock

This is my opinion only, as I have no vet knowledge, I think if the infection were not improving or was getting worse, he would not be improving, just my opinion.


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## Jaguar

He's not out of the woods yet, but he is at the point where antibiotics would be at a constant enough level in his bloodstream to be effective. Hope you can get that bloodwork info soon, wouldn't hurt to scan it and post it on the forum as well. Stay strong!


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## Guest

I'll make sure to scan bloodwork and I'll post it here when I get it hopefully later today. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!


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## nassrah

Juliet ,I am a doctor not a vet but it seems hes starting to prove , thank Goodness. Where theres life theres hope,thats what we say here in Brazil . Sending lots of love for Rascal and you . Stay strong ! We are all together ! X x Teresa


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## TamaMoo

My heart lept with joy reading that he is improving. Slow but steady is still heart warming. He's definitely a fighter.


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## Guest

I stumbled upon an old thread here on how many people with tiel's weigh them daily. That is actually a good idea since birds hide illness so well and one of the first signs can go unnoticed but keeping track of their weight can help. Even though my tiel only lost 4 grams (went from 81 to 77)... so who knows if that would really help a lot. I don't know.

I have a tiny scale which works perfect. I already used it to weigh him before. I will make weighing him a habit when he recovers. I'm still having mental breakdown though... I need those blood results! =(


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## Amz

Juliet, I think his condition is sounding very hopeful. You've got such a tough baby bird! Still sending positive vibes, but it really sounds like he's gonna make it.


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## Guest

absolutely devastated!!! why is this happening!!!!! why!!!!!!!

I am phycially shaking beyond horried in complete shock I cnanot ebelieb this is happening.

bird vet just called me he is having kidney failure his blodwrok weas as worse as it gets!! I cnnaont take thios anymore that idiot stupidn woman killed my bird!!!!!! vet says he in bad shape horribe numbers she told me I need to go the clinic... she's not there this afternoon just left and visit him and make payment for something.

I dont know if he's going to make it. the dog/cat vet who told me rabhodomylsis is not the serious issue but rather the infection was WRONG!!!! it is the rabhodomylsis that is the serious problem not infection!!!

his kidneys are failing!!!!!! I am going to vet now I am hysterical.


if he doesn tmakem it my life is over I will NOT handle it if he does not make it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that STUPID woman WHY didnt she tell me my pet was injured when he was supposed to be caring for him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## sunnysmom

Oh no! I'm so sorry. Try to stay strong. Is there anywhere you can go for a second opinion or do you think this vet is handling things correctly? I know nothing about rabhodomylsis. The only thing I think of is to maybe try to get a hold or srtiels and see if she's ever dealt with it. There's contact info for her on her website if you can't reach her through PM here. http://www.justcockatiels.net/index.html. Hang in there Rascal!


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## Guest

I feel like I am going to pass out. Here are images of his bloodwork results. If anyone here could PLEASE let me know if they possibly know a vet they can show these blood results to and ask if they know of any cockatiel who was able to overcome kidney failre from rabhodomylsis failure and live I would be SUPER grateful.

I am sick to my stomacyh. Rascal did nt look good today puffe dup and sleeping dont knwo why he would say he was oimpoving when he clearly wasnt he CANNOT die HAS to make it. I desparetyl need second opinion on his bloodwork and prognosis.

his kidney results are EXTREMELY high VERY high. not good!!!! =(

the uric acid levels (kidney) are extremely alraming high. I dont see how a bird can recover from kidney failure!!????? s***t!! cnanot be happening


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## Haimovfids

Omg. I'm so sorry what your going through. This lady has A LOT to say for herself.


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## Formlesslight

I just saw this thread this morning and I'm devastated. You and Rascal were all I could think about today. With him eating more and walking there seems to be some hope. I will keep you guys in my thoughts and sending warm hugs to you guys.


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## Guest

I have appintment with another bird vet who is local to me tomrorow morning at am. I am going to show this other vet Rascal's bloodwork results to get a second opinioon.

Thsi is the worst day of my life and I feel HORRIBLE for Rascal. He LOVED his life and does NOT want to die. Horiible horrible horrible that STUPID woman who did this.

I am completely numb.

The vet bill so far was $1,217 and I do not even care how much it costs I just need Rascal to live!!!! =( devatasted. this stupid vet told me my bir's kidneys are failing and the very next senmtance was "please go to the clinic and pay the bil".


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## sunnysmom

I don't know how far this is from you but I got this name from a woman on another bird forum.


The renowned avian vet; Dr. Susan Clubb is in Loxahatchee, FL.
Rainforest Clinic for Birds and Exotics provides full service veterinary care and treatment for a wide variety of animals. We care for the species other vets don’t see.


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## Guest

from whatI've been reading it says renal failure happens FAST? so I cna only assume if he's still ok 2 days from now he'll hopefully be ok? my current vet is a NIGHTMARE. I cnanot waitnto speak to that other bird vet at another clinic tomrorow morning so I cna hopefully get answers.

they said this other woman is veryfamiliar with rabhodomylsis, so hopefully once I show her Rascal's bloodwork I will be able to hear what ehr expeince is with prognosis and if she's had good success in recovering from such serious state.


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## Guest

sunnysmom said:


> I don't know how far this is from you but I got this name from a woman on another bird forum.
> 
> 
> The renowned avian vet; Dr. Susan Clubb is in Loxahatchee, FL.
> Rainforest Clinic for Birds and Exotics provides full service veterinary care and treatment for a wide variety of animals. We care for the species other vets don’t see.


thanks so kuch that's pretty near me I will try to call her now thanks somuch.


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## Tequilagirl

I am more inclined to be cautious, and without knowing specific circumstances etc it could well mean nothing, but for what it's worth, in the video of the dying cockatiel someone linked the other day, it said she battled renal failure several times and in the end she made it. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zfr3MBwxnz8

I really hope this ends well for both of you. I'm sending hugs your way.


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## Guest

Tequilagirl said:


> I am more inclined to be cautious, and without knowing specific circumstances etc it could well mean nothing, but for what it's worth, in the video of the dying cockatiel someone linked the other day, it said she battled renal failure several times and in the end she made it.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zfr3MBwxnz8
> 
> I really hope this ends well for both of you. I'm sending hugs your way.


Thanks so much for that video I will watch it in one minute after I send this other avian vet an email to prepare for tomrrows conversation. 

I just setup a second appiointment with yet another avian vet ... the one "sunnysmon" just gave me... thanks for that. I setup a phone conversation with that avian vet (Susan Clubb) for tororow 1pm.

I will report back what I learn from these other 2 avian vets tomrorw. My bird CANNOT die. That is not an option.


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## sunnysmom

I hope the new vets can help. Sending prayers to Rascal for a full recovery.


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## Bird Crazy

This is beyond horrible. I'm so sorry. That video is amazing. Your Lil' Rascal is a fighter for sure, and so ate you. There is always hope. I pray the next vet visit gives you a better prognosis.


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## karendh

I have been following your posts each day and because of the time difference between us I have not been staying up late enough to see your latest posts so I have been turning on my computer at 6am in order to get an up-date. I'm so sorry that Rascal is so poorly.

I don't know if this is a stupid question but is the vet or technicians doing anything that you would not be able to do at home? If it's now just a case of medication and the incubator is not essential, perhaps your little bird would be better at home with you in familiar surroundings. Being with someone who loves him and whom he loves can often make a difference as it does with us when we are very ill. He will be with you and not strangers and it might give him the strength to fight this infection. It would make you feel less helpless knowing that you are doing something for him as well.

I hope the other vets can help you and give you hope.


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## Kiwi

I'm so sorry. I hope you have better luck with the other vet. Maybe you should ask them to feed him Harrison's high potency pellets. It says that they're good for kidney and renal issues. 

I think my vet translated my report. I'm going to just go take that down now. o_o ....

Found some food that reduces uric acid: Celery, turmeric, nettle, burdock, blueberries, blackberries, citrus fruits and apricots, cherries, strawberries and apples. I think the best would be the cherries, celery, burdock to give to him. I remember in my nutrition class burdock is a powerhouse, cherry juice has been used forever to get rid of uric acid. If you have any burdock that'd be great, it's a blood purifier in most herb salads and extracts given to parrots.
http://goutezol.com/k/uric_acid_hig...rf=highuricacid.info/Cockatiel_Illnesses.aspx

I don't know how you would read that but...
"Uric acid is the primary nitrogenous waste product of the avian kidney, and its level in the serum is an excellent indicator of renal function. Normal values vary depending on the measurement technique but generally range between 2.0 and 10.0 mg% (up to 15.0 mg% in some species). Uric acid values greater than 10.0 mg% are considered elevated in most species and are most often due to renal disease. However, starvation, dehydration, tissue trauma, and aminoglycoside (a class of antibiotics) therapy may also be responsible. Even with advanced renal disease, the uric acid level may remain within normal limits but on the high end of the range. In end-stage liver disease, the value may decrease."
http://nilesanimalhospital.com/files/2012/05/Understanding-Avian-Laboratory-Tests.pdf

And apparently this link works, but I can't get it to open while I'm at college right now.
http://www.parrottimes.com/BloodTestResults.html


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## Guest

karendh said:


> I have been following your posts each day and because of the time difference between us I have not been staying up late enough to see your latest posts so I have been turning on my computer at 6am in order to get an up-date. I'm so sorry that Rascal is so poorly.
> 
> I don't know if this is a stupid question but is the vet or technicians doing anything that you would not be able to do at home? If it's now just a case of medication and the incubator is not essential, perhaps your little bird would be better at home with you in familiar surroundings. Being with someone who loves him and whom he loves can often make a difference as it does with us when we are very ill. He will be with you and not strangers and it might give him the strength to fight this infection. It would make you feel less helpless knowing that you are doing something for him as well.
> 
> I hope the other vets can help you and give you hope.




Unfortunately he's still in the incubator and being tubefeed and I have no diea how toto tubefeed. It's a million time sbetetr he's at the vet where they know whatthey are doing as someoen mustbe very experiecne when tubefeeding a bird.

he also not eating enough on his own in ordert to be able to survive I would never want to take him home until he was recovering well. he is way too sick right now... has kidney failure. 

I wish I could fast forward time. I am very anxious to hear whjat the other 2 avian vets I'm going to be talking to tomorow have to say.

I feel so bad.


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## Guest

Kiwi said:


> I'm so sorry. I hope you have better luck with the other vet. Maybe you should ask them to feed him Harrison's high potency pellets. It says that they're good for kidney and renal issues.
> 
> I think my vet translated my report. I'm going to just go take that down now. o_o ....
> 
> Found some food that reduces uric acid: Celery, turmeric, nettle, burdock, blueberries, blackberries, citrus fruits and apricots, cherries, strawberries and apples. I think the best would be the cherries, celery, burdock to give to him. I remember in my nutrition class burdock is a powerhouse, cherry juice has been used forever to get rid of uric acid. If you have any burdock that'd be great, it's a blood purifier in most herb salads and extracts given to parrots.
> http://goutezol.com/k/uric_acid_hig...rf=highuricacid.info/Cockatiel_Illnesses.aspx
> 
> I don't know how you would read that but...
> "Uric acid is the primary nitrogenous waste product of the avian kidney, and its level in the serum is an excellent indicator of renal function. Normal values vary depending on the measurement technique but generally range between 2.0 and 10.0 mg% (up to 15.0 mg% in some species). Uric acid values greater than 10.0 mg% are considered elevated in most species and are most often due to renal disease. However, starvation, dehydration, tissue trauma, and aminoglycoside (a class of antibiotics) therapy may also be responsible. Even with advanced renal disease, the uric acid level may remain within normal limits but on the high end of the range. In end-stage liver disease, the value may decrease."
> http://nilesanimalhospital.com/files/2012/05/Understanding-Avian-Laboratory-Tests.pdf
> 
> And apparently this link works, but I can't get it to open while I'm at college right now.
> http://www.parrottimes.com/BloodTestResults.html



Thanks for the links. They are feeding him harrison high potency mash sprinkled on top of his usual organic seed mix.


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## Kiwi

That's good. In cockatiels with kidney failure they often do fluid therapy treatments. Does he get any treatments or are they worried he might flush the antibiotics out? If the infection is manageable I would focus on the kidneys. I think that's why they were hoping he would eat pellets, seeds usually aren't the best thing to eat with kidney failure. 

More water and/or fruits and herbs that bring down uric acid is what I would think would help. That's just from the nutritional standpoint though.

I know what you meant about the cost. I didn't care about it either, except for me it was just to get Kiwi's leg better so her life wasn't shortened in the long run. My bill was 2.5k, I think yours may be more. Hoping for the best for Rascal! 

Oooh just remembered! It was up when I searched for gout (caused by uric acid ). Yes it can be used in birds.
http://www.drugs.com/allopurinol.html


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## yokobirdie

Hang in there Juliet. Rascal will recover with he new vet's help. Sending good energy from me and Yoko.


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## Guest

Kiwi said:


> That's good. In cockatiels with kidney failure they often do fluid therapy treatments. Does he get any treatments or are they worried he might flush the antibiotics out? If the infection is manageable I would focus on the kidneys. I think that's why they were hoping he would eat pellets, seeds usually aren't the best thing to eat with kidney failure.
> 
> More water and/or fruits and herbs that bring down uric acid is what I would think would help. That's just from the nutritional standpoint though.
> 
> I know what you meant about the cost. I didn't care about it either, except for me it was just to get Kiwi's leg better so her life wasn't shortened in the long run. My bill was 2.5k, I think yours may be more. Hoping for the best for Rascal!
> 
> Oooh just remembered! It was up when I searched for gout (caused by uric acid ). Yes it can be used in birds.
> http://www.drugs.com/allopurinol.html



I read up on Allopurinol earlier. My current vet is horrible. I know I cannot transfer him to another vet right now unfortunately, not in his critical condition. I will ask both of the other vets I will be talking wiht tomrrow about Allopurinol and then I will jump on myu current vet about it.


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## karendh

Kidneys can't heal but their function can improve with the right diet so you will need to learn what he can eat and what to be avoided. I hope he reaches the stage when renal function can improve and that he comes home to you soon.


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## Guest

karendh said:


> Kidneys can't heal but their function can improve with the right diet so you will need to learn what he can eat and what to be avoided. I hope he reaches the stage when renal function can improve and that he comes home to you soon.



Not good, so kidneys cannot heal at all? just improve in their deteriorated state? meaning permanent lifelong damage?

I cnanot take this much longer.


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## SilverSage

Every day I am hoping to hear he has improved. Any luck on the legal side?


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## Guest

SilverSage said:


> Every day I am hoping to hear he has improved. Any luck on the legal side?


After hearing the news I did today I cnanot function. I'm still waitng for the vet to fax me all the treatments and letter ex[plaigning his injuries.

Then I have someone who is going to help me file case with state attonrey aginst this horrid woman becaue I cnanot deal with anything. all I can think about is my tiel surving.

and I htought the past 3 days was bad and could not get any worse. It got much worse after hearing his blood results and his kidneys failing =(

I cant lose him I cant


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## Guest

anyone here know if uric acid drops to normal level if and when kidneys function ever returns? thanks

I also read important for bird to eat low protein diet when having kidney disease... this is problem because ther are rolled oats I mixed into his seed mix and oats are high in protein. I need to immediately tell them to simply feed him normal cockatiel seed mix with harrison mash and remove the organic food I usually feed him because there are oats in it.

I dont know what to do. it then says animal protein is espaically bad.... oats are not animal protein. I will call the tech first thign in the morning and ask vet ASAP


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## yokobirdie

Yes! Allopurinol is excellent for this.  Good Luck talking to your vet about it.


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## Guest

I just texted the vet to ask her if he's taking Allopurinol.


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## yokobirdie

Cool! Hopefully he is, if not, the vet can start administering it to Rascal.


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## Guest

vet replied to my text very fast! She said tomorrow after fluids he will start oral allopurinol. and that chem will be retested in a few days.


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## nassrah

Juliet,when humans have gout , a disease that is caused by high levels of uric acid in the system, with Allopurinol and the right diet,the uric acid decreases really well. How quickly it happens , well , it varies from person to person,I dont know about it with birds,but hope its the same .I am going to be very honest with you - I have checked the lab results and it looks like little Rascal s system is fighting a very severe battle .I wont say anything else because like I told you before , I treat humans , not animals . It seems to me that you are going to be in excellent hands with the second and third opinion,so we are praying,sending lots of Love for you both . We are all together with Rascal and you .Please keep us updated,because all I can think of all day is to get a minute , go to my phone and check how Rascal and you are doing . I sincerely pray for a happy ending . Hugs and kisses from Brazil X x Teresa


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## nassrah

Oh,and if you want to PM me,please feel free to do it anytime,I also check my Inbox here X x Teresa


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## Kiwi

That's good that he will start on that soon. I've heard that they feel worse before it starts working and flushing the uric acid out of his system. The faster it gets out the faster you avoid most of the damage. If the damage is not too bad the kidneys will heal most of the damage themselves, especially if it hasn't been going on for too long. Like right now I'm hoping it just started and there is a good change of kidney recovery. If the kidney's were damaged long before this accident, then they won't heal most likely.

The good news is that you can function on damaged kidneys just fine. You would just have to change his diet up a little and he'd have to have plenty of fluids.


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## Guest

nassrah said:


> Juliet,when humans have gout , a disease that is caused by high levels of uric acid in the system, with Allopurinol and the right diet,the uric acid decreases really well. How quickly it happens , well , it varies from person to person,I dont know about it with birds,but hope its the same .I am going to be very honest with you - I have checked the lab results and it looks like little Rascal s system is fighting a very severe battle .I wont say anything else because like I told you before , I treat humans , not animals . It seems to me that you are going to be in excellent hands with the second and third opinion,so we are praying,sending lots of Love for you both . We are all together with Rascal and you .Please keep us updated,because all I can think of all day is to get a minute , go to my phone and check how Rascal and you are doing . I sincerely pray for a happy ending . Hugs and kisses from Brazil X x Teresa



Too bad they don't have dialysis for birds, because of my understanding... a human who would have such labwork would go on dialysis until they hopefully get better?

I am eager to hear what the other 2 vets say in regards to how bad his kidneys are. I would rather hear the truth than to be told things which provide me with false hope.

Right now I honestly feel like there is no hope for him. I don't mean to sound negative but having kidneys failing is as serious as it gets =(

Vet said the only reason she hasn't given up on him yet is because he's maintaining weight... but that's because they are tube feeding him. I will have to ask whether some birds lose weight even when being tube feed or maintain it. 

Thanks for all your responses. all of you have been very helpful and this forum has been a huge help.


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## Guest

nassrah said:


> Oh,and if you want to PM me,please feel free to do it anytime,I also check my Inbox here X x Teresa



It appears his liver is also being very severely affected?

As the normal liver range (AST) is 160-383 U/L and his (AST) is 1543... isn't that very serious in itself?


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## yokobirdie

Juliet said:


> vet replied to my text very fast! She said tomorrow after fluids he will start oral allopurinol. and that chem will be retested in a few days.


That's excellent!


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## Kiwi

The liver also filters the blood like the kidneys do. It could be taking in either some of the antibiotics or the infection and is being taxed. It's from the liver that antibiotics are processed.
http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/picture-of-the-liver

Though I don't really know how you would read that sheet, maybe call the number at the top and ask them tomorrow? They'd certainly be more help than the vet.


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## karendh

Don't worry too much about the liver, it's a remarkable organ that can repair itself to which I can attest. I am a recovering alcoholic and have been sober for 26 years. Ten years ago I had an ultrasound on my stomach for something completely unrelated to the liver but I asked how my liver was doing after the years of abuse. I was told that my liver was completely normal. I'm now 71 and the liver is fine!!


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## tielbob

re: liver problems?

See page 62 of this document:

http://californiaavianlaboratory.com/sites/site-4163/documents/bldpanedff.pdf

(ck is the same as cpk, as stated in the same document)

It looks like the AST and CPK enzymes are high because of the initial injury and not due to liver problems.

Keeping the little guy in my prayers.


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## vampiric_conure

I just caught this thread. OH MY WORD! Sending positive vibes your fella's way with a shake of my pom poms and a cheer! Who would have thought a Bad (and very much unwanted) feather trim would have caused so much chaos?


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## Guest

sorry I did not mean to submit this post, my bird vet just texted me she is finally going to fax me over statement today of the serious injuries my tiel has suffered due to 5 day delay in getting him medical attention so I can submit my case to animal care & protection.


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## Nimra

I will pray for your beautiful cockatiel. I am so sorry that TOTALLY dumb woman clipped his wings off. I hate people like that. I am really hoping your cockatiel gets better. And I am hoping it eats to get strong again.


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## Nimra

I didn't understand your last post. What does it mean?


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## tielbob

Nimra said:


> I didn't understand your last post. What does it mean?


Nimra, Juliet is filing a complaint with the local animal care authorities against the person who was responsible for her bird when he got hurt. The vet is sending her some medical records to add to the file.


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## Guest

Nimra said:


> I will pray for your beautiful cockatiel. I am so sorry that TOTALLY dumb woman clipped his wings off. I hate people like that. I am really hoping your cockatiel gets better. And I am hoping it eats to get strong again.



It appears he sustained a serious injury while this woman was watching him (I don't know if it's from a wing clip only), this woman didn't bother to notify me about him being injured nor did she rush him to the emergency room. I don't know what happened to him. Whether she did indeed clip his wings or not or whetehr he was attacked by one of the dogs she was watching. The entire thing does not make any sense and the woman refuses to be honest with me unfortunately.

The problem is not the injury, the problem is the 5 day delay it took for him to finally getying the medical attention. I immediately noticed he was injured. She had him for 5 days while he was injured... she KNEW!!! This long delay has cause life threatening complications to form =(


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## blueybluesky

I hope you get better news from the other two vets. I check my phone first thing in the morning and during my break at work everyday hoping for some good news. Still sending good thoughts and heaps of hugs from me and my flock to you and Rascal.


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## Billy

I've only just noticed this thread, but i rushed through to the end to see if he was ok! 

I cant believe someone would treat an animal like that  I hope hes better soon. 

Maybe we need to get a cockatiel minding section going, so you know their being looked after by people who will actually care for them!


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## Guest

I'm leaving now to go to the other clinic to speak to that other avian vet. The cliic said this other avian vet has been tretaing birds for the past 30 yrs, so hopefully I might have some hope after I speak with ehr and show her all his results etc.

I will report back in about an hour or so. Then at 1pm I'm going to be speaking with that yet another avian vet (Susan Clubb) that "sunnymoms: from this forum was kind enough to let me know about.


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## TamaMoo

Joey and I are still sending hugs, prayers and scritches. You and Rascal are constantly in my thoughts and I am checking often for updates.


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## Guest

I just got back from the consultation with the other avian vet. She told me she's been treating birds for the past 20+ yrs and has seen some birds who were able to recover from this condition, but the REAL verdict in being able to determine whether he has a chance of survival will be to have his uric acid retested ASAP as the bloodwork results I posted here were taken 4 days ago (on Sunday when he was first admitted to the emergency clinic). So those blood results were in a sense, old. She also said it's not common to see rhabdomyolysis this severe because most normal people bring their bird;s in much sooner... they don't wait 5 days!!!! =( It was very obvious he needed urgent mendical attention I am fuming at that woman who did this to my bird!

So if during past 4 days his urid acid has dropped much lower (because it is insanely ridiculously high right now at 31.5) then he has a chance at recovering. However, if the uric acid has not dropped lower, then his chances are slim because it means permanent damaged and renal failure =(

She told me to push my vet to NOT wait several days to retest his blood and to do it sooner than that and that his system does not need to be stressed by doing a full panel again testing for everything because that requires way too much blood from such little bird, ONLY his uric acid needs to be retested. This would also require a lot less blood.

Plus, it is the uric acid that is the main problem and should be focused on that.

They started him on Allopurinal this morning and tube feeding him twice a day and doing fluids 4 times a day. They said he is eating a tiny bit on his own but not enough to be able to survive without tube feeding.

I will go visit him today at 2pm after I talk to yet another avian vet at 1pm today.


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## onyx

I'm so sorry about this nightmare you and Rascal are going through. 

My only experience with renal failure is with cats who have had kidney disease (slow failure of the kidneys; they can survive for years if treated). I don't know how to treat actual kidney failure because at that point, it's time to let the cat go peacefully. Renal failure does happen quick. But treatment of kidney disease involves diets with lots of fluids, and (if the cat is cooperative) IV fluids every three days. I have NO idea what treatment would be like for a bird though. Their digestive systems are so different from mammals. But I am sure that unless he goes into full failure, there will be a way for him to continue enjoying life, just with special meds and diet needs. Don't give up hope. xoxox


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## Guest

onyx said:


> I'm so sorry about this nightmare you and Rascal are going through.
> 
> My only experience with renal failure is with cats who have had kidney disease (slow failure of the kidneys; they can survive for years if treated). I don't know how to treat actual kidney failure because at that point, it's time to let the cat go peacefully. Renal failure does happen quick. But treatment of kidney disease involves diets with lots of fluids, and (if the cat is cooperative) IV fluids every three days. I have NO idea what treatment would be like for a bird though. Their digestive systems are so different from mammals. But I am sure that unless he goes into full failure, there will be a way for him to continue enjoying life, just with special meds and diet needs. Don't give up hope. xoxox



But those cats probably had chronic kidney disease. I don't know if acute kidney problem related to injury has same prognosis or not. Very annoyed I forgot to ask vet that question.

From what I understoodd is that if the damage was not permanent then kidneys can repair themselves somewhat and regain normal funtion. If I'm wrong, please someone correct me thanks.


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## Guest

I regret admitting Rascal to the clinic he's at now because the bird vet is only there maybe twice a week (her main office is far away), so the person who is treating my bird is not even a vet but rather a tech.

I wish I had taken him to the clinic I just went to today instead, because the avian vet is there every single day. She said I could transfer him if I really wnated to, but I dont know if that's a good idea... stress him too much in his critical state.

Plus, I think since it's the same tech whose been tube feeding my tiel... hopefully he is doing just as good of a job as the other clinic I wish I had taken him to would have done. And the other vet I saw today would be doing same treatments as my current vet anyway... only difference is that she would retest his uric acid immediately, not wait several days like my current vet says. But perhaps it is best to wait a couple days because he just started Allopurinal. I would rather wait 48hrs to see if that medication is working, since he just started that med this morning.

what would you guys do? keep him where is currently is or move him to other clinic where the bird vet is there every single day?


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## SilverSage

Personally I would keep him where he is for now, but get advice from the other vet and push this vet to follow it. Talk to the tech in person, since he is the one actually caring for your bird, and probably cares deeply about him by now. Make sure he knows about birds. The tech should be able to run the tests, or at least take the blood and a non avian vet can easily run the tests, so another vet at the same clinics. You are doing a good job of being involved and informed, keep it up.


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## Guest

The tech is this young college guy. I've asked him sveeral questions and he never know the answer. He always just refers to the vet and says I would have to ask the vet this or that question.

If I had known the avian vet wasn't at that clinic every day and a tech would be treating my bird in life or death situation I would have never taken him there, but it was emergency situation I was in a rush to find clinic on a Sunday. So what's done it done.

I will just have to hang in there and HOPE when they retest his uric acid it willl have dropped significantly. I'm about to speak to Dr Clubb, a third avian yet just to see what her input might be. I'm waiting for her call... I have 1pm phone appointment.


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## tielbob

I wouldn't move him. The present vet seems to be doing what's medically appropriate. The stress could easily be too much for him to take. Just bear with the personality issues. If any medical issues arise you can go to the other vet again for a second opinion if you think it would be useful. My 2 cents.

As for the vet tech deferring to the vet - there is a pecking order in the bird world and in the medical world. The tech might not be allowed to tell you much of anything on orders from his employer. That's why you usually can't get any info from technicians who administer medical tests such as xrays or ultrasounds and the like. The techs deal with that stuff every day and have a pretty good idea of how you fared but they are not permitted to offer opinions on results without risking their job - the doctor gives the results after his/her review. Same with the bloodwork - techs in the office know more about what the numbers mean than they can say. Again - they must defer to the doctor.


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## Tequilagirl

I would take Rascal to the new vet, where the vet is actually there and telling you what's what, because at the moment you're having to suggest meds to the vet, that's wrong. But the actual main reason is because they told you Rascal was doing better and eating a bit and stuff and the following day he was worse than ever. I would be thankful they kept him alive but I would take him to a real caring vet now.


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## Guest

Tequilagirl said:


> I would take Rascal to the new vet, where the vet is actually there and telling you what's what, because at the moment you're having to suggest meds to the vet, that's wrong. But the actual main reason is because they told you Rascal was doing better and eating a bit and stuff and the following day he was worse than ever. I would be thankful they kept him alive but I would take him to a real caring vet now.


I havne't sugessted any meds to my current vet though. I had texted her to inquire whether he was on that medication called allopurinol and the vet texted back few minutes later at 9pm ish that they would be starting him on it this morning, so it appears she was going to start it on her own... not because I asked if he was on it. Or at least I hope that is the case!!! What is unacceptabe however is that she didnt bother take 1 minute of her time to text me this update to say he would be starting new med!! I had to text her at 9pm last night when she actually promised me I would receive important paperwork yesterday from her before 5pm. Not only did she not send me this important paperwork... she didnt even bother to contact me alt all!!!!

The other nice vet I saw today told me they had had numerous problems in getting records from the clinic Rascal is at now.

I really want to move him to new vet, but too scared to. Plus, the new vet would be doing same treatments other than the fact that she would immediately have his uric acid restested and use another lab to avid bloodwiork results taking so long to come in. But I actually think it's best to not restest immediately because he just started on that new medication today. It seems logical to wait at least 48hrs but NOT several days like my current vet said.

I'm seeing Rascal today at 2pm to see for myself if he's doing better.

I'm about to talk to that 3rd avian vet any second, I will see what her input is.


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## Guest

shoot yet another question I forgot to ask, I hope taking that medication called allopurinol is not permanent and only a temporary medication? I cannot believe I forgot to ask that! As that med is pretty toxic.


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## Guest

the 3rd avian vet I was supposed to speak today with on phone had emergency, so she will call me today at 4pm. I'm going to go see Rascal now and HOPE he will look bgetter today than he did yesterday.

My boss told me I should move him to new vet ASAP, but I don't know if that would be right decision. I know he would have been better off at the other new vet, but moving him doesnt seem like the right thing to do.

I am going to be upset if the tech didnt give him fresh a millet spray this morning, because otherwise it is almost impossible to tell whether he is eating the millet spray or not I mean when exactly he was eating it... what day). Much easier to tell on a fresh millet spray and monitor it like that.


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## SilverSage

An important question here is how far away the new bit is. Is it a 5 minute drive? That might be doable. Are you thinking of driving him 45 minutes? Or taking him on public transit of any kind? That is much more alarming! I would ask the vet you are thinking of moving him to what she thinks, and go by her advice. Moving a bird that sick sounds incredibly dangerous to me. Also, as you said, the vet is doing everything medically indicated, except wanted to wait longer to re-run blood tests. Did she run the tests again when asked?


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## Guest

SilverSage said:


> An important question here is how far away the new bit is. Is it a 5 minute drive? That might be doable. Are you thinking of driving him 45 minutes? Or taking him on public transit of any kind? That is much more alarming! I would ask the vet you are thinking of moving him to what she thinks, and go by her advice. Moving a bird that sick sounds incredibly dangerous to me. Also, as you said, the vet is doing everything medically indicated, except wanted to wait longer to re-run blood tests. Did she run the tests again when asked?


I have not talked to my current vet about retesting his uric acid sooner than several days from now. I will tell them when I get to the vet today. She's actually not even at the clinic today, so I will have to text her again to inquire about this issue.

The new vet place is about 5 miles from the current clinic he's at (I just checked on map quest) and the new vet said they would be sending people to transfer him, I would not be doing it myself.


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## Tequilagirl

I understand. If you feel that he should be where he's now you should definitely go with your gut. I hope you get to see him and he's doing better. Give him good wishes from me!


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## karendh

If you don't see any improvement today I personally would consider moving him to the new clinic. Before making the decision though I would ask the new clinic how they will transport him, would it be in an incubator for example. What concerns me is that there is only an inexperience student tech looking after him most of the time and I think it would be better to have an experienced veterinarian with him all the time, not just two days a week. How can an assessment be made when the vet doesn't even see him?


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## Guest

I am so happy!  I saw Rascal today and he looks much better today than yesterday and is even gaining weight!!!  He was 81 grams when first admitted, then dropped to 77... then went up to 78 and then was up to 79 grams today. He's still barely eating at all on his own (maybe that's because he's being tube fed and not as hungry??).

Either way, the tech at my current clinic is very nice and seems to be doing a good job treating Rascal. He also said Rascal is the nicest tiel he has ever dealt with. I feel it would be foolish to move him to the other clinic right now. I hope I'm not wrong.

But I will be FURIOUS if the vet does not send me the urgent paperwork I need because animal authorities are going to close and dismiss my case if I do not send them the paperwork today and my vet knows this and promised me I would have to paperwork today before 4pm. 

I took pictures of Rascal today. Look at him go!  They said they have never seen him preen like this, so I don't know if he started to preen because he saw me or not... but I was there for at least 10-15 min and he started preening the entire time. Other than that, he couldn't care less that I was there nor did he try to come to me at all or react to me. Normally he would race over to me... but not now. That right there definitely says he's not fully feeling well yet (that was very obvious to me because he would race at the speed of light to me otherwise for certain), but improving slow but steady.

Now I just have to wait until they retest his uric acid. That will be the official verdict.

Here are some pictures I took of him today, so cool that he's preening!


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## Guest

nightmare!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am 100% moviong my bird to the another vert tomrorow!!!!!! this vet is HORRIBLE... she just yelled at me on the phone. She told me I need to pick up my bird tomorrow and keep him at my hosue and that she does not have time to get me the imprtant paperwork I need!!!!!! her exact words were "I have betetr things to do I dont have time to get your papers". he was literally nyelling at me!!!!


Is this woman mental??? I dot not even know how to tube feed a bird nor do I know how to give it the medication theyt just started him on. I am urgently claling the other vet so they can help me move him to their.
I am DISGUSTED!!! you guys should have heard her on the phone. I am just floored.

rascal is being moved to the other vet ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he needs to be with people who know what they are doing and how to care for sick bird... I do not!! she also just tlld me he's not doing well because he ahsnt gained enough weight... she told me exact opposite from what she said yesterday!!! I am HORRIFIED!!!!!!!!!!!!

not only that... he still needs FLUIDS!!!!!! he must ahve fluids 4 time s a day!!! I ened to trey to mvoe him NOW not tomrorow

they told me he is not eating neough on his own must be tube fed longer I do not knwo how to tube feed a sick bired!!! nor how to administer medication orally to the bird!!!!


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## CaliTiels

Taking care of feathers means he's improving. When my guys were sick, they didn't preen and looked raggy. Keep going Rascal!


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## ParrotletsRock

I don't understand this vet... She has better things to do than to do the job your paying her for? Getting those papers is all part of being a vet and taking people's money... He is feeling better enough to preen so that is good... And any gain is good to even if it isn't enough yet... I agree move your bird to the new vet immediatly...


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## sunnysmom

Ugh. You don't need more stress. Yes, move him. That vet sounds like he has no bed side manner at all and sadly no respect for birds. It does sound like medically though Rascal is improving- which is wonderful. Hopefully, the new vet will be kinder.


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## Guest

I just spoke to the nice vet. I have appointment to transfer Rascal over to her clinic tomorrow at 2:30pm. I will then keep him at new clinic for monitoring to see what the new nice vet thinks of his condition.

I do not feel confident enough to administer medication to a bird. I have no idea what I am doing. 

I feel as though I am on another planet. First my vet told me Rascal is impoving, but then today she said even thoguh he's preening acting better he's not imprving becxause he's not gaining ENOUGH weight and that he is WASTING away because his kidneys are failing. Those were her exact words. So today she told me complete OPPOSITE of what he said yesterday!! yesterday she told me he is gaining weight and then today she told me complete opposite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not good!!!!!!!! =( The bird does not belong at home yet, he needs to be checked over with the new vet ASAP.


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## moonchild

Wtf?! This vet is bonkers. Next, please!!
He looks good.  At least that clinic helped him somewhat.


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## Guest

Yes but the vet just told me even though he looks good "he's not well" and "wastng away because of failing kidneys" complete iopposite of what she told me. I suspect that is why she is realizing him and giving up on his treatment. 

Something is really wrong. I need him to go to other clinc for at last one or 2 days to get checked over. My current vet REFUSES to send me the paperwork I desperately need and literally SCREAMS at me on the phone she was yelling and yelling at me and I was just silent.. So I will have to simply fax my documents in without it so my case doesnt get closed. I will actually have my new vet get me papers instead.

My head is spinning, what is going on here. This vet is horrible horrible I wish you guys could have heard her on the phone. You would have been shocked to say the least.

My vet aldso now suddenly wants to do his bloodwork immewdiately... I never even asked her to do the bloodwork sooner... I haven;t even talked to her about it at all... yet on her own she went from wanting to check his blood in a FEW DAYS... to wanting to check it IMMEDIATELY... something is very very wrong!!!!!


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## RexiesMuM

Maybe you can call the caseworker who is working on your case and have them call that vet and demand copies of the paperwork ? If she wont give it to you maybe she will give it to them in a fax . I agree move him to the other vet this one sounds like she has some major problems .


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## Clair

I haven't been on the forums in a while and I just got caught up on poor Rascal's plight. I'm so sorry you two are going through this. Like other posters, I felt ill when reading about what happened to your little guy. 

IMHO, you should get your bird to the nicer vet ASAP. If it were my bird, I would get my bird out NOW and risk a 5-minute car ride to get the better care.


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## Hellena

Wow, what an ordeal the two of you have been through. Glad to see everything has gotten better.


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## Kiwi

Wow, that vet is so mean. It's not like you just dropped this paperwork thing on them, you've told them about it for a while. They're just very uncooperative. 

I'm glad he'll be properly cared for at the new clinic. Then you wont have to worry about him so much while you're on vacation. And yes, like other organs the kidney's can repair themselves. But they're not like the liver, they wont regenerate themselves if they've been continuously damaged for more than a short period of time.


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## CaliTiels

Wow what a jerk. I would not give her a cent. I would ensure I paid the nice vet tech however, she probably did all the work on him anyways


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## onyx

The bloodwork thing might be because you are moving him, and they want to charge you the bloodwork fee. =\ What a rotten vet!


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## Mayra

That vet sounds like a real jerk. "Better thing to do", really? It's terrible that the vet is making things more stressful than they need to be and giving you mixed signals about his condition. I hope his transfer to the new vet's goes as smoothly as possible. It's for the best at this point that he's in a well managed place and looked after by thoughtful and professional people. Anyway, weight gain and preening are signs that he's feeling better! That's amazing; Rascal's a fighter for sure.


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## Guest

Wow, and things just got more confusing. I told my boss what is happening and that I cannot go on the business trip (Nov 3-7). I asked my boss to help with my situation with Rascal, so my boss called my current vet and spoke to her for almost 30 minutes he said. My boss told me the vet said if I transfer my bird (I don't know if my boss was being honest or who to believe anymore) but he told me the vet said the vet I wanted to transfer my bird to is not a real nor experienced bird bird vet and if I move the bird it will die.

My current vet then called me and conferenced my boss in on the call... I must say she was suddenly actually very nice on the phone!! She talked to me and my boss on the phone in a 3 way conference.

We finally agreed that the bird is best left at the current clinic and he will have his blood results in on Monday, at which time we can determine whether he has a chance to live and go home if the bloodwork is ok and the phosphorus is much lower as right now it is at 9.8. If the phosphorus is not much lower on his next blood test which come in on Monday, then he is in BIG trouble. Even though he looks great on the outside, he could be in serious trouble on the inside.

I again mentioned I do not feel comfortablee with him coming home right now... not until his new bloodwork results come in and I know he will be ok... which will be in a few days. Plus, he is still getting fluids 4 times a day. 

What a nightmare this is. In conclusion, he is not being transferred and staying at the clinic for 3 more days. The vet said he will be a lot more comfortable at home and be able to recover better, which I totally agree with... but I don't feel comfortable with him coming home just yet, not for at least for 2 or 3 more days.

I also finally got the letter I needed from her and can send it into the animal authorities regarding my case.


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## SilverSage

Ok, this sounds crazy to me, why is your boss involved? The old vet seems selfish and evil and only in it for the money... If your new vet isn't real how did you find them? Look up reviews online. You can call your local department of consumer affairs and see if the new vet is real, because if they are they have a business license through them. No matter where you take him, he needs to be at a vet who doesn't have better things to
Do than make the person who hurt him pay, and who does NOT YELL AT OWNERS because that is a sign she doesn't care about you. If she doesn't care about the owner, do we really think she cares about the pets? See if the receptionist or tech can fax you the paperwork. Ugh! I am so mad about how you two are being treated!


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## Mezza

Holy crap! What a nightmare. 

I don't get why blood tests take so long for results. When Skiddles was seriously ill last year she got blood tests done in the morning and the results were in by 6pm. The vet rang me said he was emailing me the results - and that he would ring back in 10 minutes when I had the result in front of me so he could explain the results (like Rascal some result were high and some low, and none of hers were normal). 

She then had the care she needed - granted she did go in and out quite a few times and had I think three lots of blood tests - before and after her meds then a few months later. NOT ONCE did they complain or anything, they were so compassionate. I guess they are bird lovers though as its a bird only vet clinic.

I hope Rascal is improving, poor baby. 

Sorry, but I think your vet is a heartless b%tch. 

Your boss seems very supportive of you - I presume you didn't have to go away on your business trip.

Please take care of yourself Juliet


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## Guest

I am so worn out and confused. Now my boss looked up the vet I wanted to transfer him to and he says she does not have good "credentials". This vet I am referring to is Dr Heather Johnson over at Harmony Animal Clinic... she was very nice.

I don't know what to do anymore. All I know is that I am not ready for Rascal to come home not yet, I don't think that's safe quite yet. I also know my current vet was super rude and rather nasty to me and then was so sweet when I had my boss conferenced in on the call today.

My boss is nice and very helpful, I told him I am having mental breakdown and to please help as I am super worried about Rascal. I do like the tech who has been taking care of him though, and you can see he has been treated well with all the greens, veggies and fruits they are offering him to keep his liquid intake up.

I am exhausted, all I ate today was 2 granola bars I need to make something to eat and then resume what is happening tomorrow. 

I did buy a fish tank today with a see through screen lid, as I know when I bring him home he must stay inside the fish tank for quite some time. I really really really hope his bloodwork will have improved... that is honestly what I am MOST freaked out about right now.

I will try to call the lab, maybe certain tests takes longer to get results? I'm not sure. So strange, beacsue the nice vet said results should come in very fast... but then the mean vet said other vet isn't running correct test. Confusing.


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## Guest

I now understand that his blood isn't being taken until tomorrow late afternoon and then being fedex'd to the university of miami med school out for mon delivery... so I should have results on mon or tues (it appears it wil be tues) at the very latest. Rascal will be staying at the clinic until I get the results. After which I will be bringing him home on Tues afternoon or Wednesday morning, hopefully with happy results. Hopefully =(

And I've managed to cut my trip much shorter. I refuse to leave town for 6 days, noway!! Thus, I must fly to NYC for only one day (I will only be gone Monday) and then flying back home on Tues. This was a critical busienss trip but nothing more important than my bird so I'm not staying entire 6 days (have already chnaged plane ticket). Must be here to care for my bird!! I will only leave for one day, that was my compromise.


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## Jaguar

Look up some guides on meditational breathing... get some food in you, relax, and try to think about this from the most rational point. He needs to be where he's getting the best treatment. How does she have bad credentials? Credentials mean very little for vets.... so what if they went to some prestigious vet school 40 years ago... if they have never been in it for the animals and don't care to keep updated in modern practices, it doesn't matter. Administering fluids, antibiotics, medication, and tube feeding are very basic things, I have no doubts that any other clinic could do it. You need a vet that WANTS to save your bird, as it seems that no amount of money you throw at this one is making her care, and if things take a turn for the worse, you NEED a vet that cares.

Degree: The Ohio State University College of Veterinary Medicine 2002 
Awards and Certifications: Iams Veterinary Emergency and Critical Care Award, Association of Avian Veterinarians Focus Courses in: Pathology, Diagnostics, Disease, Therapy, Surgery and Anesthesia.
Here is more info on the AAV courses: http://www.aav.org/general/custom.asp?page=focusedcourse

No it's not the most impressive resume ever. But if she has a genuine care for birds and has the knowledge and facilities to take care of him, I would still consider moving him... if not to this vet, then another one with avian experience.


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## Guest

Exactly, I totally agree with you. I have been screwed like you woulnd't believe by MDs who have the "best" credenitals". Credientials or where they went to school means nothing! It really does.

But, Rascal does seem to be improving where he is currently at. I am just counting down the days. It will fly by fast. I am also visitig him twice a day now. I do fell he would be much better with me at home, he will be home with me very soon.

I am going to bring him several of his favorite toys they can put inside his incubator so that at least he has his toys with him. Tech said I can finally put some toys in there.


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## CaliTiels

I guarantee your veterinarian is a severe bi-polar. Very strange behavior


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## Guest

CaliTiels said:


> I guarantee your veterinarian is a severe bi-polar. Very strange behavior



I agree. Very bizarre experience.


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## Jaguar

Some vets take any questioning of their practices as an insult to their knowledge - I once had a cat vet who swore Hills/Science Diet was the best pet food known to mankind and that I was killing my diabetic cat by not feeding him prescription Hills food.... of course, anyone who actually cares about cat nutrition knows that Hills is absolute garbage and the prescription foods either have no medical ingredients or one that masks the symptoms rather than treating the issue... anyway, upon asking him why he recommended it so much or what benefit it had for my cat, he started borderline yelling at me in an extremely irritated manner, talking so fast that I could barely understand him with his heavy accent. A bit more research showed that during his time in vet school he took nutritional classes that were funded by... you guessed it... Hills. And he had nothing but 5 star raving reviews on vet review sites. Some vets just suck.


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## Guest

Jaguar said:


> Some vets take any questioning of their practices as an insult to their knowledge - I once had a cat vet who swore Hills/Science Diet was the best pet food known to mankind and that I was killing my diabetic cat by not feeding him prescription Hills food.... of course, anyone who actually cares about cat nutrition knows that Hills is absolute garbage and the prescription foods either have no medical ingredients or one that masks the symptoms rather than treating the issue... anyway, upon asking him why he recommended it so much or what benefit it had for my cat, he started borderline yelling at me in an extremely irritated manner, talking so fast that I could barely understand him with his heavy accent. A bit more research showed that during his time in vet school he took nutritional classes that were funded by... you guessed it... Hills. And he had nothing but 5 star raving reviews on vet review sites. Some vets just suck.



Almost all doctors have had virtually NO nutritional education, they just knwo how to push toxic drugs and are heavily influenced by large corpations. Sad the way this worlds works... all for $$$$


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## Jaguar

Juliet said:


> Almost all doctors have had virtually NO nutritional education, they just knwo how to push toxic drugs and are heavily influenced by large corpations. Sad the way this worlds works... all for $$$$


Ha, yeah, like doctors who claim to be a "nutritionist" which, at least in Canada, is not a protected title. ANYONE can claim to be a nutritionist.


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## Guest

Not good, my mind keeps repeating what the vet said today on the phone. She said more than once that his phoshorus level which was 9.8 is only seen in those who are at the end stage (most advanced stage) of kidney failure.

If I don't have a heart attack or faint the day she calls me with the blood results it will be a miracle. My heart is going to be racing when I get that call. I amtotally fraking out, must stay calm somewhow.


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## Guest

I didn't get to speak to that other 3rd avian vet today "Susan Clubb" because of the bizarre chaos that occurred this afternoon which had me running around frantic, so I will be talking to her tomorrow morning 10:30am and will inquire what her thoughts are his blood work.


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## Bird Crazy

I'm so glad you got your trip shortened. The next several dCount 1234 with metronome set at 4ays are going to go by so slow for you. Please remember to take care of yourself. You don't want to be ill when Rascal comes home! I hope the blood tests come back with better results next week. Your boss sounds very nice and understanding. That's so cool. I think that leaving him where he is would be the least stressful for now, but it's great that your calling around for other opinions. That's a smart plan. Know that you are doing the best for your little man. My heart goes out to you and Rascal!


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## slugabed

Your boss is pretty awesome for helping you this much. And that vet is as equally terrible as your boss is awesome.

I don't know if this will help, but I found my nice vet through here: http://aav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=1803 See if it helps you too.


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## nassrah

Juliet I agree that what really matters is a professional that is interested in your bird.A high fly resume doesn't always mean success.I am anxious for the test results,pity we are going to have to wait until Monday or Tuesday . I think you are doing the right thing in. Isiging him twice daily, it sends them a message that you are a responsible owner and is keeping an eye on them.If in the meantime you have any doubts about where it sould be best for Rascal to be ,just listen to your heart and dont hesitate .You do not deserve to have to put up with some vet that has a few unresolved issues to deal with That should NEVER interfere with patient care .I keep praying for little Rascal and you I had tears in my eyes when I saw his pics preening Please keep updating us on everything We are here for you Sending lots of love for Rascal and for you X x Teresa


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## nassrah

Juliet I agree that what really matters is a professional that is interested in your bird.A high fly resume doesn't always mean success.I am anxious for the test results,pity we are going to have to wait until Monday or Tuesday . I think you are doing the right thing - visiting him twice daily, it sends them a message that you are a responsible owner and is keeping an eye on them.If in the meantime you have any doubts about where it sould be best for Rascal to be ,just listen to your heart and dont hesitate .You do not deserve to have to put up with some vet that has a few unresolved issues to deal with That should NEVER interfere with patient care .I keep praying for little Rascal and you I had tears in my eyes when I saw his pics preening Please keep updating us on everything We are here for you Sending lots of love for Rascal and for you X x Teresa


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## Colorguarder08

If I was you I would transfer your bird. Sounds like your current vet was scared of losing money. Notice how she told you to take your bird home and once you said you were transfering her she all of the sudden was ok with him staying a little long and now wants to redo blood work. Yet the other vet was more WILLING and able to share information about your birds results. She also immediantely started bad mouthing the competition. All signs point to the first vet being a money hungry *****. I would transfer your bird immediately


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## Guest

Yes, I do think something is seriously off with this vet. I don't know what to do. Now I am again scared to move him. I do know the tech that has been mostly caring for him has been doing a great job though and he seems to like my bird. I am actually going to speak to the vet I wanted to transfer him to tomorrow as well as the other 3rd vet (I have not spoken to yet) because this has gotten too complicated with what happened today.

Just incase anyone's curious, here's the report the vet FINALLY sent to me. I have now been able to send in all my documents/evidence to animal control authorities.

Next, the state attorney must be started with a case, I've just been too stressed about Rascal surviving to pursue going after this horrid woman to pay the rather very large vet bills I'm being hit with... but need to get that going also.

I have to get up early tomorrow, so I am forcing myself to hit the hay. I don't know what I would do without this forum. You guys are all awesome and super helpful. Thanks so much.

Sorry, I know the report is a little hard to read, but she put down wrong age for Rascal, he is not 3.... yet =) Other than that, I think she did good job on the report?


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## RexiesMuM

Very good report that will go along way when dealing with charges for this pet sitter . I hope she see's justice big time and is not allowed to own animals or sit animals again and jail time along with covering all the medical bills you are incuring why getting him better


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## Jaguar

Glad you got the letter. If you feel he's getting the care he needs at the current vet, don't stress him out with a move - but if the vet is going to refuse treatment and try to get you to take Rascal home early I would transfer elsewhere. 

I don't know a lot about kidney/renal failure in birds, but hopefully the residual damage is manageable with a low protein diet and such. Hoping for good news with the test results next week.


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## Colorguarder08

Also another thing to consider that the vet "had better things to do than get you your papers" until you mentioned switching. Those better things to do I will guarentee you that they involved nothing to do with any type of vet care for any of her patients.


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## Kiwi

It all depends on the factors of what's happening with him if you move him. Maybe the vet told you he was doing worse to keep you there for a while longer. The blood tests should show the results.

How are the 3rd vet's credentials? If they're better go with them. I don't like this vet, she's kind of shady even if she's doing a good job. It's not right for her to completely blow you off until your boss calls her. That's not a good vet.

If his tests are good that would probably be the time to move him if you're going to. If the drive is short and you cover him with a blanket, I think he could handle it. I'd ask them to make sure that they have a bird incubator, fluids, medicine, and all the other treatments he is on right now ready before you transfer him though. Otherwise he would do worse when you got him there and he has to wait for it.

You definitely deserve some sleep! I hope Rascal is doing better tomorrow.


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## CloudySkies

I don't get what is wrong with the "nice" avian vet... I'm not finding anything online, but I haven't really dug deeply. I'd definitely be tempted to move him because you have to be able to trust the doctor to make the correct decisions and to not only listen to what you're saying but actually hear what you're saying and this current vet fails on all three counts by my vote. I only think you should put up with that when you have no other choice, but you clearly have other choices and the "nice" vet looks like a fine option to me. 

BUT.

You're about to leave town and he is settled where he is. Also, the tech is the one doing most of his care and I'm assuming he's there full time and that kind of consistency is worth its weight in gold. Also, no stressful move to worry about (although 5 miles away I don't think is in any way a deal breaker).

So I guess, if it were me, I'd have him stay where he is for now but with plans to immediately move him to the new place should one more funky, unacceptable thing happen. I would definitely keep a line of communication open with the "nice" vet, but low key so you don't burn a bridge by asking for tons of "free" advice, you know?

I don't know if any of that is helpful but you're spinning in circles and I know that when I do that, I really rely heavily on opinions of others just to get me started down a certain road until I feel my feet back under me and am able to feel confident with my own decions. So that's my two cents.

Oh, and go Rascal! I wish he could get some basic labs done sooner than later because yes, those lab results you posted were old and were from when he was clearly in crisis. He's looking and acting so much better now, so I think his labs could now paint a different picture.

I don't know diddly about bird anatomy and physiology, but I do know that a common sense approach that is widely accepted is to look at the patient rather than just the lab values. Rascal's old as dirt lab values say he's a very sick bird but Rascal himself, today, is saying he's a bird on the mend. Obviously that can change and no one can predict the future, but I think there is a lot of value in trusting what you are seeing with the bird himself instead of the numbers on a sheet of paper (especially when those numbers are from his absolute sickest time!), you know?


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## Colorguarder08

CloudySkies said:


> I don't know diddly about bird anatomy and physiology, but I do know that a common sense approach that is widely accepted is to look at the patient rather than just the lab values. Rascal's old as dirt lab values say he's a very sick bird but Rascal himself, today, is saying he's a bird on the mend. Obviously that can change and no one can predict the future, but I think there is a lot of value in trusting what you are seeing with the bird himself instead of the numbers on a sheet of paper (especially when those numbers are from his absolute sickest time!), you know?


Even ER doctors follow this rule when seeing if a patient is getting sicker or not. Happened to me last August. Within 15 minutes of being in the ER the doctor told me he thought I had menigitis and if he was right it would have progressed past the point they could help me and I wouldn't make it through the night. A few hours later the doctor came back and told me that because I wasn't looking any sicker but rather staying about the same he was starting to doubt his diagnosis but that I was clearly very sick. The doctor was wrong as I am still alive but most of his diagnoising was done on visual clues as blood results take a while to come back and when your that sick you might not have the time to wait on them. So I say you can determine if he's ready to be moved based on your bird and how he looks/appears to you.


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## blueybluesky

I think I would personally leave him where he is until you get the results back, moving him now and then bringing him home in a short amount of time might be to stressful for him. 
I also agree with looking at the patient and not always the lab values. There have been a few times that a vet has told us that our dogs wouldn't make it, for them to live many years longer. One of our dogs were in the end stages when she was bitten by a snake and we really didn't think she would make it, a couple of years later and she's doing great.
I know they are different animals and incidents but the point is that each pet is different and even if it looks bad now it can get better. I also think that Rascal is a tough little birdy and if anyone can pull through this he can


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## Guest

I don't know if my boss was being honest when he told me my current vet said if I move transfer him to the other vet Rascal would die. I must reconfirm this with my boss, perhaps he told me that because after he spoke to my current vet yesterday for almost 30 minutes and after he formed his opinion that the other vets "credentials" are not "up to par", he was trying to persuade me to leave him where he currently he. At first he kept telling me to transfer my bird to other vet IMMEDIATELY, but then AFTER he spoke to my current vet yesterday on the phone he completely changed his mind! Very very strange. So perhaps my current vet did in fact say Rascal would die if I transferred him to other clinic.

The above issue is what has me far too scared to move him now because I think, if this is true and my vet indeed said he would die if I transferred him now, she was probably saying this because she feels it would be far too stressful for him.

Another thing that sucks, when all 3 of us were having phone conferecne yesterday, I could barely understand a what she was saying becasue the phone reception on my bluetooh in my car was terrible!

I just realized my current vet's clinic closes around noon on saturdays and it not open on sundays (ony open sunday for emergencies)... so I won't be able to barely see him this weekend =( and then I won't be home at all on monday and arrive back late afternoon tues, not happy about that.


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## yokobirdie

Juliet said:


> Rascal will be staying at the clinic until I get the results. After which I will be bringing him home on Tues afternoon or Wednesday morning


Yay!  Good Luck Rascal!


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## Guest

Not good! I just got back from seeing Rascal this morning and he's now losing weight. That is a REALLY bad sign. He went from 79 grams yesterday to suddenly down to 77 grams today. Yesterday the vet said tis is classic sign of kidney's failing because he is "wasting way".

Even if he was healthy, wouldn't that be a lot of weight to lose for a bird in just one day??

Not good!!! 


... and the etch who usually cares for my bird is not in today at all... so my current vet will be handling him today. I felt more comfortable with the nice tech caring for him!


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## Guest

Not good. I just spoke to my case worker and told her she will have all doucment shsortly as theyever been mailed. She told me this is very tough case because there is no proof the woman deliberately injured my bird.

can you beleive this!!!????!!!! the woman wouold have ahd to have eben BLIND to not see all the blood, all his feathers that were ripped out... and that he was feeling sick and was severely injured. She knew he was injured!!! and even if she didnt... the fact that she would be this irgnorant and plain STUPID with my bird is neglience and that woman has NO business caring for any animals!!!!!!!

the owmna who was watching my bird ADSNITTED he expoeirencd bad ight fright... she should have examined him the next day for injuries... she KNEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Colorguarder08

I say transfer him as it's kinda funny how it was going to be just fine for you to bring him home yet the moment you mention transfering him all of the sudden he wouldn't be ok for that. Makes me seriously wonder about the vet. As far as the weight loss I would question what caused it I don't want to say for sure the vet wasn't having Rascal fed so he would intentionally lose weight "proving" her theory but there is that chance especially since she is a terrible vet who shouldn't be allowed to treat animals from the way it sounds. Again NOT saying thats what she did but I would question it since she seems to be getting the results SHE wants but refuses to do anything to actually help the bird. Again just my opinion but I wouldn't put up with her one second longer.


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## Guest

Colorguarder08 said:


> I say transfer him as it's kinda funny how it was going to be just fine for you to bring him home yet the moment you mention transfering him all of the sudden he wouldn't be ok for that. Makes me seriously wonder about the vet. As far as the weight loss I would question what caused it I don't want to say for sure the vet wasn't having Rascal fed so he would intentionally lose weight "proving" her theory but there is that chance especially since she is a terrible vet who shouldn't be allowed to treat animals from the way it sounds. Again NOT saying thats what she did but I would question it since she seems to be getting the results SHE wants but refuses to do anything to actually help the bird. Again just my opinion but I wouldn't put up with her one second longer.




Yes those were my thoughts exactly, but then the vet said it would be too stressful for him o transfer to the other clinic or something along those lines. She basically said transferring to another clinic is too stressful for him but transferring to my home (since he is comfortable at home) would not be stressful. I dont know what to do. This is awful.


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## karendh

You say that the present clinic is closed from midday on Saturday until Monday. Who will be there to look after Rascal, feed him and medicate him during this period. I should think they will be feeding him three times a day at least.


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## Guest

there will be someone atr the clinic those day to feed him and give hm liquids... it will just be closed for regular business.

I just spoke tot he 3rd vet. This 3rd avian vet said she does bloodwork in her clinic and can get the results same day. She is 30 minutes from here I live... said I could take him there to get his blood checked. That woudl be too stressful for him just to drive him back and forth now to get the results faster. So I will just have to wait until monday or tuesday to get the results =(

This 3rd avian vet I spoke to said she has been birds be able to recover from what Rascal is dealing with. Just have to flush him with fluids and keep him on allopurinol. What a shame I didnt take himto this 3rd avian vet I just spoke to instead because I would have had his bloodwork results today and if good... I could have brought him home earlier.

EDIT: Just got update, my boss is till helping me and spoke to my current vet. My current vet said those in house machines the other 3rd vet (I just spoke to) uses take a LOT of blood, thus why she sent to the research lab with very minmum blood wherethye have expertise... it seems maybe he is perhaps best where he is and I just have to deal with waiting longer.


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## Guest

sorry if I'm posting too much, but the 3rd avian vet just calked me back. She said her in house machine ONLY takes one or two drops of blood, that's it! She also said more than likely what is happening is that my current vet does not want to send him to another vet--- this means she would lose $$$ and business!

I agree with this new 3rd avian vet who was super nice. But now I am still too worried to transfer him. What is nightmare this whole thing really is. It is bad enough what happened to him and now also dealing with this other nonsense.


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## sunnysmom

I'm sorry this is happening. How stressful. Does the third vet think it would be safe to transfer him?


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## slugabed

Bah, those are all classic salesperson tactics. I've seen those in a variety of businesses. Once Rascal is well enough it's best to move him to the third vet, who seems to be well-equipped, experienced, and most importantly, nice.


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## Guest

no she said too "stressful", but I agree with you guys. I think she just doesn't want to lose business by having someone else take over. I don't know... this is what makes me too worried to move him. I'm frozen.

For now I've made decision to just leave him be, I will have to deal with waiting much lonegr for blood results to come in and hope for the best =(


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## ParrotletsRock

Juliet said:


> sorry if I'm posting too much, but the 3rd avian vet just calked me back. She said her in house machine ONLY takes one or two drops of blood, that's it! She also said more than likely what is happening is that my current vet does not want to send him to another vet--- this means she would lose $$$ and business!
> 
> I agree with this new 3rd avian vet who was super nice. But now I am still too worried to transfer him. What is nightmare this whole thing really is. It is bad enough what happened to him and now also dealing with this other nonsense.


I don't trust any professional that has bad things to say about a competitor.. The current vet has an excuse for everything you bring up... I think if it were my bird it would be out of there as fast as I could get him out. Just my 2 cents worth.


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## karendh

Has you current vet already taken the blood and sent it off for testing?


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## Guest

blood was taken today already (cant take blood twice in a row same day, that's not good) and managed to get it expedited should have results by late tongiht... if not... it will be on monday.

my boss (who knows I'm having mental breakdown) said he paid for a messenger, so he managed to get it expedited somehow.

he arranged pickeup/delivery by medical lab transport company... whatever that means. blood going to miami. I suspect results will be here monday, not tonight.

I feel like I'm waiting for my HIV positive or negative blood results, very stressful.


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## Mayra

I hope Rascal shows signs of improvements this weekend. I'm sorry this has been such a stressful and traumatic event for the both of you  I really, really dislike people like that vet that brush off your concerns and don't take seriously what you're going through, but still have the gall to demand you stay under their service. It seems like she's taking advantage of the vulnerable position you're in. Your boss is very kind to help you out and be supportive. I hope all the legal work against the woman responsible for Rascal's condition goes through. At the very least she should be responsible for his medical bills.


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## karendh

What would infuriate me (as it must do you too) is that it's odds-on that your vet won't let you know the results tonight even if she receives them. 

If Rascal is showing signs of improvement and the lab results are showing a positive step forward for him I would definitely move him to a more friendly vet, at least one you can talk to without having to put up with all the hassle you are having to contend with from you present vet.

I do hope the uric acid levels are down now.

No need to apologise for posting so often, I'm sure I'm not the only one who is checking on the forum frequently during the day to get up-dates and can't wait for see a positive one from you any day soon.


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## Guest

Right now it is his phosphorus level that is most critical it have gone down. It was 9.8 five days ago when previous bloodwork was taken and after speaking to 3 different vets, I realize just how seriousl'y high that is and how bad.

I have not been contacting my vet at all because she always gets very upset and nasty with me. Thus, my boss has now fully taken over getting updates from her and she will actually be calling him with blood results. I will then immediately get results from my boss. How weird is that.

If I get the results tonight and they are good, my bird is soooo out of there!!!!!!!!


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## karendh

I don't go to bed much before midnight so will be checking here later tonight in the hope that you have had some good news. What time is it at the moment in Palm Beach, it 19.10 here in Malta?


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## Tequilagirl

You are paying that pitiful excuse of a veterinarian top dollar to treat your bird and she doesn't even have the decency to talk to you like a human being? Why on Earth is she showing your boss the respect she should be giving you, after all you're the one she's working for!

I consider myself an expert with 9 years of meaningful experience in my field and that 3rd vet has been practising for as long as I've been alive! I told myself I would shut up about your vet business but your current vet told you about a cockatiel that died with lesser injuries and the 3rd one told you about cockatiels recovering from the very same thing Rascal has... I know which vet I would prefer to trust my bird with!


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## Guest

very bizarre, not good! my current vet just called me she was actually nice on the phone this time. She took chlamydia test and my bird was negative... that's what she called me to update with. I already knew this as they already did that test on him. She said bloodword should reach miami by 4 pm today... at which point it will be examined.

I am VERY troubled by what she said next though... she does not know what gender my cockatiel is. Say what??????????????? what!.. what???? She said "he or she is doing great today" "I don't know what gender he is" she said.

He is CLEARLY a male. Look at him... look at his picture in my avatar and sig. He is very very CLEARLY a male!!! How can she be an avian vet and not know how to sex a cockatiel?????!!!!!!!!!!!

what?????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I am more freaked out than ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I need to somehow call the lab directly and see if I can tell them it is emergency I get results today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## CaliTiels

That's just sad


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## Guest

Anyone here as FREAKED out as I am due to the fact my vet does not know the gender of my grey cockatiel????

I am floored. Just when I thought things could not get any stranger. This is just very BASIC "Birds 101".


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## Jaguar

Ha... and he says the other vet has bad credentials...


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## Mayra

Wow. It's not just that she lacks basic tiel knowledge, she didn't even bother to find out his sex this whole time, or paid attention at you clearly referring to Rascal as male? This is basic info she should know about her PATIENT. That's just lazy


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## Guest

I sent my boss the following picture to have him understand just how CRAZY it is that she did not know gender of my bird. This entire everything that has happened, and I do mean everything, is just plain CRAZY.


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## Amz

Yeah, this current vet is absolutely crazy and just wants the paycheck. Get Rascal out of there ASAP. It's too bad there's already a huge bill racked up for the current vet because she doesn't deserve a single cent.


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## moonchild

If you had him transferred, how close is the new vet to the current one? Would the new one have everything ready for his arrival? I really don't think a short carrier/car ride would kill him, even in his weakened state.


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## Guest

moonchild said:


> If you had him transferred, how close is the new vet to the current one? Would the new one have everything ready for his arrival? I really don't think a short carrier/car ride would kill him, even in his weakened state.


I have 2 other vets I could transfer him to... one is super close to me 10 minutes but the other is 35 minutes away. What freaks me out is current vet said he would die if I transferred him to another vet. That makes NO sense to me. At least this is what my boss claims my current vet said. I am currently trying to figure out if my boss was being honest or just trying to "persuade" me to not move bird. Because at first he told me to tranmsfer bird immeditely to anothe rvet... but then after he talked to her... he complately chnasged his mind and told me he would NOT transfer bird.

I will make my decision tomorrow as the other vets are open tomorrow... but not sunday.


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## Amz

Juliet said:


> I have 2 other vets I could transfer him to... one is super close to me the other is 35 minutes each way. What freaks me out if current vet said he would die if I transferred him to another vet. That makes NO sense to me.
> 
> I will make my decision tomorrow as the other vets are open tomorrow... but not sunday.


If the current vet can't even tell the gender of an easily visually sexed bird, I'm pretty sure she can't tell what will or won't kill him, too.

Gonna have to agree with moonchild on this one - I don't think a car ride will bother him too much, especially if he's already used to being in a car.


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## Guest

now I am even more upset. My boss confirmed she said it would be "risky" to transfer him to another vet. My vet did not say he would DIE.

I really don't appreciate my boss twisted her words!!!

Nor do I understand why it would be risky to transfer him to another vet, but NOT risky for her to discharge him to my home!!!!! her explanation was that it would be too stressful to go to another clinic, but no stress at home. That part does make sense.. but she is also obvioiusly not wanting to lose business either.


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## Kiwi

Risky does mean there is a possibility of dying. I think your boss just didn't want Rascal to die. 

I would definitely switch vets now... this is very concerning to me. If you can't even sex a cockatiel, do you really know what you are doing?

If you do decide to switch to whichever vet, make sure that they have everything ready to go and are prepped as soon as you walk in the door. Like they have the fluids, medication, everything ready right then. If they do that then a short drive shouldn't be a problem at all. It would just be the change in temperature I would be worried about, he lost weight, he's having trouble keeping his body temperature up, he's also used to that temperature now. So you'd have to cover his cage with blankets and get him into an incubator as soon as you can preferably.


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## karendh

Are the two vets you have just mentioned aware of Rascal's situation, have you already spoken to them? If they are aware of it and can continue the treatment he is already receiving, then I would transfer him tomorrow morning in your own car in the travel cage he is used to. I'm sure he will not be too stressed in your company. 

The only problem I can envisage is the result of the blood test you are awaiting from the present vet. If either one of the vets you mentioned are able to do the test in-house with a quick result, then I would go ahead.


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## Guest

yes, both vets are aware of suituation.

desicion has been made though. bird must stay where he is, because I just spoke to the other nearby clinic and the nice avian vet is not at the clinc on saturdays. She takes sick birds home with her and treats them at her home. She has already left for the day, so nobody would be at the clinic to take care of him tomrorow. I don't weant to take him to other clinic, it is way too far away.

The avian tech I spoke to was beyond shocked when I told her my current vet does not even have the basic knowledge to tell the gender of my bird!!!!! I spoke to her for about 15 minutes. We came to conclusion, it is best to leave him where he currently is because the new vet place would not be prepared to care for him because vet will not be there tomorrow, moving now would NOT be smart.. It will only be for 3 more days anmd then I get get him out of there, he is also geting the treatemnts he needs at current vet... evne though vet is ngihtmare.


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## Kiwi

It's a shame that the vet is not there tomorrow. 
At least the care he is receiving is good even if that vet is very stressful.

I wouldn't worry too much about the weight loss yet. They get a little worse with the medicine before they get better. The main thing is that it is taking all the uric acid and phosphorus out right now. They can crop feed him for weight, but that acid is damaging his kidneys. I'm hoping the levels went down and the phosphorus ones too.


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## Guest

My vet was pretty much positive he had rhadomlyosis the first day I brought him in, I wish she had immediately started him on allopurinol instead of waiting 5 days before starting it!!!!

Even if that medication is toxic, the risk of starting it sooner would have been WORTH it because the damage and risk by not starting it urgently when there is rhabdomylsis are MUCH worse!!!!!


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## Guest

oh my god oh my god I am sooooo happy!!! I am so happy about to pee my pants!!! I am sooo happy holy you know what!!!! omg!!!!! omg!!!! The vet just called my boss with news. My boss then forwarded me the update:

===================
Good news Juliet, she got verbal not written report from lab - kidneys are good - normal phosphate , cpk uric acid and ggt. Cutting tubing from to 4 to 2 times /day

AST STILL HIGH-1000 - added new med to lower this liver function number and problem - she must remain in hospital till this is nomalized.

Told me that we can call her late afternoon tomorrow for update.
================


The vet says his AST (meaning his liver) is still very high (well over 1,000+) and normal values are between 160-383, so she is putting him on new medication (forgot name of it) to hopefully bring the liver function but to normal levels. The vet didn't say what levels his uric acid and phosphorus was... all she said is that when the lab called her today and told her verbally his kidneys are fine and normal!!! I should have the actual report soon so I can see then see the real numbers tomorrow or Monday.

This is fantastic news and I am soooo happy and relieved!!!! Now the only issue remaining is his liver damage... which hopefully can repair itself? maybe it's high from the drugs he's on? I hope his organs have not sustained permanenrt damage... that is too early to tell yet.


On the other hand, now I am EXTREMELY UPSET about another issue. My mother actually said "I cannot believe you would spend that much money on a bird that cost $40"... followed by "it's just a bird, why would you spend that much, it's not worth it".

That is the most DISGUSTING thing I have ever heard anyone say, I am embarrassed to even mention this but I am so upset by it I can't help myself but to vent about it. I will not speaking speaking to her for a long time. What a horrible thing to say or think. My mom doesn't like animals or think much of them, but to think like that is despicable. I have never gotten along with her, for many reason this is juts one of them!!!

I am not allowing that foul comment to ruin my joy I feel for Rascal. Looks like he's going to make it afterall!!!!! What a tough bird he is... really tough!!! 

PS: Rascal was $60 dollars NOT $40 and he's worth a million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Clair

That is wonderful news!!

Don't let your mom's comments bring you down. Paying for vet care is what responsible pet owners do.


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## CloudySkies

I'm so glad to hear he's doing better! He's a trooper.


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## Guest

I am soooo reliveed and sooo happy his kidneys' are fine 9I am eager to see what exact numbers his uric acid and phosphorus dropped to). But the vet said his liver issue is serious... so now I am worried about that... once his liver is hopefully brought back to safer levels... he will be offfically ok 

Vet said he must remain hospitalized until his liver returns to normal.


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## CaliTiels

I told you he was strong


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## Guest

CaliTiels said:


> I told you he was strong



Ya, that bird is monster STRONG!!!! with very strong will to live 

He is not out of the woods yet... but almost at the finish line.


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## Mayra

Yes! Finally, some good news. He's young and strong, hopefully he'll be on his way to recovery in no time. I hope by the next time you visit him he'll be showing visible signs of improvement. Don't worry about what your mom has to say about it; mine likes my tiel Mimi but she wouldn't understand paying a high medical bill for her. I would totally do whatever it took to make sure she got treatment if she was ill though.


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## Guest

I am soo happy.. but can't jump up and down yet until I see his liver goes back to normal. But this is still so so awesome


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## Vickitiel

Yay Rascal! So relieved. Keep it up little guy. :thumbu:


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## nassrah

I am so relieved Juliet ! Rascal s news really made my day and weekend! Juliet , GGT iS an enzyme also related to the liver , so if its down, theres hope for his liver. Bless him! I am so glad all our prayers and vibes helped ! Hang on there strong! Bless little Rascal,he is a miracle ! Forget about your Mom its not worthy. Lets focus on Rascal and already think of him playng and chirping at home. God bless you -Hugs and kisses from Brazil Teresa


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## Guest

nassrah said:


> I am so relieved Juliet ! Rascal s news really made my day and weekend! Juliet , GGT iS an enzyme also related to the liver , so if its down, theres hope for his liver. Bless him! I am so glad all our prayers and vibes helped ! Hang on there strong! Bless little Rascal,he is a miracle ! Forget about your Mom its not worthy. Lets focus on Rascal and already think of him playng and chirping at home. God bless you -Hugs and kisses from Brazil Teresa



Thanks so much, and big thanks to all of you. You guys were all super helpful... you guys are all awesome and was of big help 

Don't know what I would have done without this forum, because this was really a huge mess that happen (someone could make a movie out of it lol). We are almost at the finish line soon... then he will be back home!


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## Amz

YAY RASCAL!!! That is such amazing news, Juliet! I'm so happy for you both! 

Who cares what your mom has to say about Rascal, don't let a rude comment ruin this wonderful news!


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## Kiwi

I know... the poor little guys seem to have everything wrong that can happen, happen. But it all works out in the end! 

If the uric acid levels only started rising after the injury, then his kidney's should repair themselves no problem. I was worried about scar tissue. If there is too much, like with severe damage, they will function very poorly.

The liver can take a lot of damage, it's like the only organ that can regenerate itself in the human body, same with the avian body. I wasn't as worried about his liver, his kidneys were another story since they can't do the same thing. I'm glad they're better now. 
http://www.sharecare.com/health/digestive-health/only-self-regenerating-organ
http://www.uihealthcare.org/liver-disease-frequently-asked-questions/

Hoping he continues to show improvement! And that lady gets the heck sued out of her.


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## Amz

The liver is a very hardy organ for sure. And if it can regenerate, even better!


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## Guest

That is great, now I am less stressed about the liver.

I have more good news, I now have a safe place (2 different places to choose from) where I could board Rascal during those times I must leave town. One of those places is super close to where I live (only 5 minute drive) this is the place where one of the nice avian vets is. They said I could bring his usual 17 inch travel cage he stays in when I'm gone and they could place it into the front office where all the employees sit all day doing paperwork on the computers etc... so Rascal would be right next to employees there all day.

He loves action and being around people, so he would LOVE that! 

They also only charge $25... to $50 a day (depending on which option you choose - I think they said my option would only be $25/day)... which is good price considering I always travel for only about 3-7 days at a time. 

So I will NEVER EVER have to go through this disaster again!!!


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## Guest

The only "bad" news now is that... would I have to personally go to court when trying to sue that horrid woman to make her pay the medical bills? Because I have horrible social anxiety when I have to speak in front of a group of people in these situations. I never have it otherwise, ONLY if for example, I have to speak in front of a room with several people in a quiet room in serious settings... such as a court room... yikes! Otherwise, I have no problem.

I get super nervous in such situations I don't do well! =( 

I wonder if someone else could go on my behalf? Because from my understanding, I would have to represent myself in court in person? Sorry if this question is stupid, but I'm not sure if I would have to hire an attorney in small claims court or what. I will have to get this started asap as I know it's not good to waste time starting it.

I don't do well in courts, I have always tried to avoid such environments like the plague 

I know it's cheap to initiate small claims civil court case, but I don't know much more than that. Do I contact the woman first to see if she'll pay it on her own? I DOUBT that would ever happen so it seems case must be started ASAP.


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## Colorguarder08

Chances are there won't be a room full of people more than likely it would be the judge you and any lawyers there may be a few other people but just remember this is for your bird that she nearly killed. But yes you will have to appear in court to tell exactly what happened.


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## slugabed

I don't know how it works in the USA, but my experience is that for these cases it's likely to be just you, that stupid woman, your lawyers, a judge, and a few support personnel.

So glad Rascal's kidneys are fine!

I said this before, but your boss is bloody awesome. I can't imagine most bosses helping you like yours did.

Your mom reminds me of my sis. Cheap pets = no vet visits.


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## Mayra

I completely sympathize with your social anxiety. I've had to make presentations for school in a class that only had about 6 students and even though I had everything I needed to say down on paper, I still struggled through it and was very nervous. Some people just don't have good public speaking skills. I'm also not good with being demanding or confrontational. But this is a really serious situation where you should stand up to the negligence and harm Rascal was exposed to. Just be prepared and know exactly what you need to say and ask for and keep remembering that you're doing it for him. You should be proud to know that you're doing all you can for him and showing how much he matters


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## karendh

Just read the post about Rascal's kidney function, soooo pleased for you and him, yes livers can repair themselves. I'm sure he will soon be home with you, what a bird!!!!


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## karendh

Juliet, try not to be too hard on your mother with regard to her attitude towards the high vet bills you are paying. I don't know your circumstances, whether you are single with a good paying job or have children who depend on you.

When Frank and I bought our first house and started a family we had so many commitment on our income, mortgage, utilities, phone, running a car, not to mention the cost of children and schooling. On top of that the usual cost of feeding and clothing a family. We would not have been in a financial position to spend money on vet bills, the size of which you are facing and I'm relieved to say that I was never in this position. 

I'm sure your mother's attitude towards your pet has been influenced by her past experiences. On top of the expenses I have mentioned above, your parents would have had to face the cost of collage funds and medical insurances.

I hope you will try to forgive her and understand where she is coming from.


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## Guest

I'm single, no kids. I don't ever want to have kids (I am turning 35 soon). Rascal is my kid and my best friend. I only went to college for one month, I'm an entrepreneur and have paid all my bills since I was 22 or 23 yrs old. I cannot help but to be very upset about my mom putting me down saying it's dumb for anyone have spent so much on a "$40 dollar bird" and that I should have just bought another one. That is horrible. Even if I was a millionaire, she would have said the same. It just just the way she is.

On a happier note, I'm going to go see Rascal right now. Since I have to leave town Monday morning 4am to catch a flight and won't be back until Tues... I won't be able to see him for the next 3 days (clinic is closed tomorrow on sundays). I am soooooo happy I don't have to worry about his kidney's anymore... makes it less stressful that I have to leave for a little bit.

I will just have to suck it up in court and fight that horrid woman that she must pay all the medical bills! (I will have to deal with looking nervous in court). I am also going to hear back an update from the animal abuse authorities soon regarding the case I have open with them.

Now I get to go see Rascal... the super hero bird who can survive anything!


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## yokobirdie

Yay! Rascal's kidneys are functioning!    Your brave boy should be home soon.


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## Guest

yay yes I can't wait!

I wonder how long he will have to be in the fish tank? I've always wanted to own a fish aquarium... but this wasn't exactly what I had in mind LOL J/K

Vet said he will have to remain in fish tank... but I forgot for how long.

Since literally ALL of his flight feathers were ripped out by the roots... I know it would be dangerous for him to not stay in the tank until he can at least glide to the floor without dropping like a rock onto the tiles.

How long do you guys think that will take?


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## ParrotletsRock

Feathers that are pulled out start to regrow almost immediatly, so a few weeks maybe. However depending on the damage to the follicles there is a chance some or all of the feathers will never regrow.


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## Jaguar

Sooo glad to hear the news about his kidneys, that was the major issue for sure. Hopefully they can get his liver numbers under control and from there on it can repair itself if there is any residual damage. Hoping your visit today goes well too


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## nassrah

Juliet Im pleased to hear that 
Rascal is improving and looking forward to read your post about him being back home. What a relief!About Court , be strong you will be doing it for Rascal and you are the only person able to describe your pain and suffering , nobody else. If you get upset during the hearing it will only reinforce the hard times you have been going through,so it will be helpful at the end,the Judge will have more evidence against the horrid woman and you are sure to win,Rascal will won ! Stay strong ! LikeI always say to you , were all together ! Lots of love X x Teresa


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## Guest

Now I am back in worry mode again. I just visited Rascal and he didn't look too well. You can CLEARLY tell he is still very sick and feels sick because he does not react to me at all. Normally he would race to me at the speed of light... but No reaction at all now. He just sits there mostly with his eyes closed (they handled him this morning so he was also worn out from that being tube fed etc I'm sure). He did however gain 2 grams so that is good.... but the vet says his liver issue is very serious. We don't know if it's from the injury, infection or what is causing it.

He must have his liver retested in a few days (must stay hospitalized until then). Only after liver is retested will we know the REAL verdict in regards to his condition.

He must stay on allopurinol for at least 21 days for his kidneys and he is taking milk thistle for his liver. I actually take milk thistle myself since it's great for the liver.

.... so in conclusion, he is not out of the woods yet. We still have several days of waiting to see the results of his liver upon retesting it in about a week. Vet says liver damage takes a very very long time to heal... several months even to a year.

Here's a picture I took of him today. He loves to sit on his food bowl. He is ALWAYS siting on that when I get there and I think that's what he does all day... just sits and sleeps on top of the food dish, poor thing.


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## Amz

Juliet said:


> I'm single, no kids. I don't ever want to have kids (I am turning 35 soon). Rascal is my kid and my best friend. I only went to college for one month, I'm an entrepreneur and have paid all my bills since I was 22 or 23 yrs old. I cannot help but to be very upset about my mom putting me down saying it's dumb for anyone have spent so much on a "$40 dollar bird" and that I should have just bought another one. That is horrible. Even if I was a millionaire, she would have said the same. It just just the way she is.
> 
> On a happier note, I'm going to go see Rascal right now. Since I have to leave town Monday morning 4am to catch a flight and won't be back until Tues... I won't be able to see him for the next 3 days (clinic is closed tomorrow on sundays). I am soooooo happy I don't have to worry about his kidney's anymore... makes it less stressful that I have to leave for a little bit.
> 
> I will just have to suck it up in court and fight that horrid woman that she must pay all the medical bills! (I will have to deal with looking nervous in court). I am also going to hear back an update from the animal abuse authorities soon regarding the case I have open with them.
> 
> Now I get to go see Rascal... the super hero bird who can survive anything!


Look, it's a me from the future! I'm also planning on not having kids, I just want animals. Specifically two tiels, a bearded dragon, and two Doberman Pinschers.


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## Amz

Juliet said:


> Now I am back in worry mode again. I just visited Rascal and he didn't look too well. You can CLEARLY tell he is still very sick and feels sick because he does not react to me at all. Normally he would race to me at the speed of light... but No reaction at all now. He just sits there mostly with his eyes closed (they handled him this morning so he was also worn out from that being tube fed etc I'm sure). He did however gain 2 grams so that is good.... but the vet says his liver issue is very serious. We don't know if it's from the injury, infection or what is causing it.
> 
> He must have his liver retested in a few days (must stay hospitalized until then). Only after liver is retested will we know the REAL verdict in regards to his condition.
> 
> He must stay on allopurinol for at least 21 days for his kidneys and he is taking milk thistle for his liver. I actually take milk thistle myself since it's great for the liver.
> 
> .... so in conclusion, he is not out of the woods yet. We still have several days of waiting to see the results of his liver upon retesting it in about a week. Vet says liver damage takes a very very long time to heal... several months even to a year.
> 
> Here's a picture I took of him today. He loves to sit on his food bowl. He is ALWAYS siting on that when I get there and I think that's what he does all day... just sits and sleeps on top of the food dish, poor thing.


Don't worry, Juliet. Birds are so weird about showing how sick they really are. He probably looks a lot worse than he is. And his liver may still be under some pressure. Just because it can heal, it may not have done so just yet. Just give it a little time. I have a feeling that he's gonna make it out stronger than ever.


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## karendh

Poor little boy but on a positive note, at least he is perching on the only thing he can do and not drooped on the floor of the tank, He's probably very tired and is sleeping himself better, which is what we do when we are ill.

You will do marvellously in Court because you are fighting a true cause and I agree with previous post, being upset in front of the judge can only reinforce what you have had to go through. Keep strong. xxx from Birdie


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## Clair

A few years ago, our little guy was in the hospital for 4 or 5 days (he ate aluminum foil) and when I went to visit him, same thing - he barely acknowledged me. Then they let me open the incubator door. I leaned in and softly whistled his favorite song. He perked up, walked over to me, and let me give him scritches. At one point, he put his little head right up next to my forehead for a snuggle and he is _not _ a snuggly bird. 

Poor little Rascal is probably sick and tired of being poked, prodded and handled by strangers. Once he feels a little better and realizes it's you wanting to give him love, not a tech with a needle, he'll race over to you for some affection.


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## CaliTiels

Juliet said:


> I'm single, no kids. I don't ever want to have kids


Hey, same here. 

I would like to get married though


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## Guest

Exactly, my bird is my kid. That is plenty for me 

I'm happy to hear that he is receiving milk thistle... which is just a harmless herbal supplement rather than another toxic drug to try to fix his liver, because I know toxic drugs really mess with the liver.... and he's already taking allopurinol for his kidneys... last thing he needs is more toxic drugs stressing the liver.

I cannot wait to get him back home, hopefully just one more week 

Poor bird, he's already been at the clinic for a week. Hope he's not bored out of his mind. I made them put his favorite toys inside the incubator incase he starts feeling better.


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## yokobirdie

Juliet said:


> I'm single, no kids.


Same here. My pets are my kids.


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## CaliTiels

When Beaker and Jaid had AGY, I researched a lot about simple herball treatments rather than hardcore chemical medicines. I believe strongly in herbal treatments


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## Guest

CaliTiels said:


> When Beaker and Jaid had AGY, I researched a lot about simple herball treatments rather than hardcore chemical medicines. I believe strongly in herbal treatments


Right now  

It is unfortunate how most doctors have little to NO nutritional education and only know how to push highly toxic drugs. I have fired both my doctors and have been going the holistic route having AMAZING results. I am not a fan of big pharmas!


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## SlightlyNorth

Hey Juliet, I just caught up with everything that I missed here and I'm so glad to hear that Rascal is doing better! Good for both you and him for seeing everything through and coming out all right on the other end.


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## Guest

SlightlyNorth said:


> Hey Juliet, I just caught up with everything that I missed here and I'm so glad to hear that Rascal is doing better! Good for both you and him for seeing everything through and coming out all right on the other end.


He's not out of the woods yet... will know when they retest his liver in a week at which point be will hopefully be free and clear


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## SlightlyNorth

Right, but sounds like he's doing a lot better indeed. Sorry you had to go through all of that with the vet, though! There's nothing worse than a rude vet in these situations... when my rabbit was still around her vet was awful, but we sort of just took a grin and bear it approach because he _did_ know what he was doing, he was just rude in the process haha. Glad you found some good new people as well~


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## yokobirdie

Yay! Rascal is so brave!


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## Kiwi

I strongly believe in herbal treatments too. Kiwi gets herbal extracts from Avitech for arthritis and detoxing along with herb salad.

The liver is a very hardy organ, for the short amount of time I don't think it would have been hurt that badly. It is being taxed by a lot of things right now so the milk thistle will help a lot. 

I would ask them what they think the damage to the kidneys was. Like if they think he has any scar tissue or if they think they may not function as well now so you can get advice from them on it.

I would also get him an x-ray when he is feeling better so that you can see if he did fracture anything from the fall.

I have a general anxiety disorder and I sooo hate those situations too. I just worry about it, like I'm worrying/dreading my project presentation. I think a courtroom would be the only place I wouldn't feel worried about strangely. I think I could use my anger to get rid of the anxiety in that situation.


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## Guest

When I was in highschool, I would actually ALWAYS skip class and just stay at home on days when I knew I would have to stand in front of the classroom by myself to speak or do a presentation.

I just couldn't do it! I would have rather died lol. So those were "sick days" I simply took off. My bad :blush:


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## Kiwi

I feel the same way. I would have gotten bonus points for presenting last week, but I really didn't want to go. So I waited until I had to go this week. The best part is there is a Q&A afterwards, if it isn't bad enough. Can't wait...


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## Guest

Kiwi said:


> I feel the same way. I would have gotten bonus points for presenting last week, but I really didn't want to go. So I waited until I had to go this week. The best part is there is a Q&A afterwards, if it isn't bad enough. Can't wait...


I wish you luck! The whole saying people say to just "imagine everyone in the room is in their underwear"... does NOT work! LOL =)

It is crazy that I get so nervous, especially when you consider I really do not care what people think about me. I just still cannot help but be nervous. So strange how that works. I don't like attention on me, so that contributes to it.


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## Bird Crazy

Hi Juliet! Yay! I just read that Rascal is improving! Good news about his kidneys. I hope he continues to get better. I too am one to skip situations where I might have to talk in front of people. Much better at talking to my birds! I think what would happen if you get an attorney and sue that woman is that first you will try to settle outside of court. Both of your attorneys will urge each of you to come to some sort of agreement. If you can't, then you have to take it to a court room in front of a judge, etc. just make sure you get an attorney who you feel is good, and that you like.


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## Kiwi

Juliet said:


> I wish you luck! The whole saying people say to just "imagine everyone in the room is in their underwear"... does NOT work! LOL =)
> 
> It is crazy that I get so nervous, especially when you consider I really do not care what people think about me. I just still cannot help but be nervous. So strange how that works. I don't like attention on me, so that contributes to it.


Thanks! 

I've tried that too. What I do is just write down exactly what I'm going to say and read it off. Otherwise I just trip over my words. I don't really know why I'm nervous either, I think it's just that you have everyone's eyes on you. It doesn't help that almost always the teachers give them a sheet to fill out judging your presentation.. T_T


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## Guest

What would also add to my nervousness in court is... I have a fear what if the small claims court says the exact same thing the animal abuse authorities are saying? They are saying that since it is very difficult and/or next to impossible to prove she injured my bird with intent... that the case will not succeed in punishing her.

IMO, even IF that were the case, which we know it isn't... the fact that she had the sick/injured bird with her for 5 days and did NOT notice it was injured is just pure negligence and irresponsibility (she very clearly not only ignored my bird, but did not even bother to keep his cage in hygienic conditions!!). This is exactly what I told the animal abuse authorities... and I don't think I made much progress. They will be in touch with me sometime next week once they have all my evidence which they should have gotten yesterday.

I will be sooo soooo mad if she does not at least have to pay ALL of the medical bills. That would be so wrong. That stupid woman nearly killed my best friend... Rascal!

Also, since my boss got involved... he says he will make SURE that woman pays one way or the other. He is an animal lover and is rather upset about this whole tragic situation occurred.


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## Kiwi

Your boss sounds really awesome I have to say! 

I really don't like that you can't do much for animals in the legal system. There is a very loose standard for what it is to care for an animal and they outline very specific things for what things are considered abuse. That is what lets people get away with things like this and lets pet stores everywhere just do the most basic of things to take care of animals. There are only a few people that push for animal rights and I wish that they would add more things to the system like they did a few years ago. Right now people are still working on getting animal testing banned where animals are viewed as disposable. It's very slow moving on progress for animals. 

I would still argue that case in court and hopefully you get a compassionate judge who will make her pay.


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## CaliTiels

Kiwi, you're in PETA. Can you get them to focus their energy on improving animal legal laws perhaps? Because I'm in the same boat here. I want to get a U2 out of a pet store. Never let out of her cage, handled, only one toy in her cage, fed a cheap diet of sunflower seeds and junk. She's been there for YEARS and is very overpriced for being 19 years old, aggressive and not tame, but I can't afford to rescue her


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## Guest

You guys should watch the documentary called "Earthlings" (it is a real eye opener). You guys think those animals are being mistreated... but what about the chickens, pigs cows etc how they are being mistreated. It is pure HORROR what those animals go through for yrs. It is EXACTLY as bad as the animals in lab testing or animals the PETA are trying to rescue. There is a LOT of detachment in this world unfortunately, people freak out about an abused dog or bird, but then what about all the other breeds of animals that are being beyond abused, kicked, stabbed in the eyes, beaten... left in cages so tiny they can barely move for days and days at a time.

It is horrific. I am a vegan, not only for my health but for the planet and the animals.

I don't want to start any debate... I am just bringing it to attention.

I am swamped now packing as I must fly to NYC 5 am on Monday for 2 days, so I won't be able to post here much right now as I'm super behind since I was so focused on Rascal.

I will keep you guys updated 

Thanks.


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## Guest

Shoot having a problem. I just realized the fish tank I was told to buy for Rascal to stay in when he comes home has this nasty clear silicone material which is lining ALL of the inside of the tank. It has nasty strong chemical smell, not only that but Rascal would probably start chewing on it.

I must get a see through 10 gallon glass type container that doesn't have this nasty clear rubbery stuff which was calked all around the tank to prevent water from leaking.

It smalls nasty, you would think it wasn't good for the fish either, yikes.

They said he must NOT be able to climb, so using a small bird cage with no perches is out.


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## CaliTiels

At least Rascal is now improving so the trip shouldn't be half as bad


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## Guest

Ya, but I'm having trouble finding a clear box I can keep him in. This fish tank thing isn't working =(

It's sealed all over the place with the nasty smelling clear rubbery material to prevent water leakage since it's a fish tank. Bird would eat that for sure and get poisoned or be affected by the chemical like fumes.

I think it's clear silicone they lined all over inside of fish tank. Am I being paranoid or would this be a bad idea? They did very sloppy job... it's all bumpy and gross and stretchy.


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## CaliTiels

Juliet, why not go to Target or Walmart and look in the storage unit. They have clear bins there


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## Jaguar

PETA doesn't want anyone to have pets.... doubt they will help with that LOL.

Silicone is stinky until it cures, but if you need something without seams, look for an acrylic fish tank or reptile tank... or you could repurpose one of those clear storage totes... something like the one on this page: http://thehandmadehippie.wordpress.com/2013/04/05/homemade-bird-hospital-box/


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## Guest

CaliTiels said:


> Juliet, why not go to Target or Walmart and look in the storage unit. They have clear bins there



Thanks I will try to do that tomorrow... most of those conatiner are plastic though... and not see through... guess I will have to look around. Maybe I can find higher quality fish tank without all this weird gunky silicone.


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## Guest

Jaguar said:


> PETA doesn't want anyone to have pets.... doubt they will help with that LOL.
> 
> Silicone is stinky until it cures, but if you need something without seams, look for an acrylic fish tank or reptile tank... or you could repurpose one of those clear storage totes... something like the one on this page: http://thehandmadehippie.wordpress.com/2013/04/05/homemade-bird-hospital-box/



Cool, thanks for the link.


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## CloudySkies

Just adding to the thing about anxiety about speaking in front of groups. I hate it too, I think most people do but some of us definitely cope less well with the anxiety than others. Anyways, what I have found works best for me is to pretend that I'm a confident person. I know it sounds as stupid as can be, but it really does work for me. I just do my best to act like this is something I'm good at and like it's no big deal because, hey, I do this ALL the time, I'm a super duper confident person! It works well enough to get me through whatever it is I'm trying to get through, maybe that might work for you as well?

I think that you should be able to find a clear plastic bin that would work. I can find several just by searching "clear plastic bin" at Amazon.


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## Kiwi

I agree with everyone, the plastic bins at most stores work great! Kiwi could climb out of the 9 inch one though, so I would get one a little higher than that. 

This is the type I'm keeping Kiwi in, minus the lid: http://www.target.com/p/hefty-66-qt...-14757144#prodSlot=medium_1_10&term=clear+bin



CloudySkies said:


> Just adding to the thing about anxiety about speaking in front of groups. I hate it too, I think most people do but some of us definitely cope less well with the anxiety than others. Anyways, what I have found works best for me is to pretend that I'm a confident person. I know it sounds as stupid as can be, but it really does work for me. I just do my best to act like this is something I'm good at and like it's no big deal because, hey, I do this ALL the time, I'm a super duper confident person! It works well enough to get me through whatever it is I'm trying to get through, maybe that might work for you as well?
> 
> I think that you should be able to find a clear plastic bin that would work. I can find several just by searching "clear plastic bin" at Amazon.


That's a great idea! I think I'll practice like crazy to boost my confidence a little. 



CaliTiels said:


> Kiwi, you're in PETA. Can you get them to focus their energy on improving animal legal laws perhaps? Because I'm in the same boat here. I want to get a U2 out of a pet store. Never let out of her cage, handled, only one toy in her cage, fed a cheap diet of sunflower seeds and junk. She's been there for YEARS and is very overpriced for being 19 years old, aggressive and not tame, but I can't afford to rescue her


I'll try and see if I can help, it takes a tragedy to change laws nowadays it seems unfortunately. Right now animal law only really covers basic needs and prohibits the extremes of animal cruelty.  
Even the USDA overlooks a lot of animal cruelty and let people keep their licenses after multiple offenses. There they continue to buy animals for roadside zoos and circuses, until someone reports that the animals are suffering (again), USDA looks into it (possibly for the tenth time), they tell them to clean up their act or finally give the animals mercy and take their license away. Sometimes animals just aren't really respected in general by the government, even with the laws already in place.

PETA looks like it is pretty focused on banning animal testing right now. Which is an important step towards people accepting that animals aren't disposable and should have access to more rights than they currently have. I'm hoping the U.S. will take the way India went when they banned animal testing, expanding rights for animals since banning testing meant they had to accept an animal's individuality as another living being.

Right now, what you can do is take lots of pictures of the neglect and document them. If you can pile up enough and present it to Animal Control they can at least give them a misdemeanor or make them take better care. Make sure to follow through with Animal Control if they followed up on checking on the U2 again. If there are clear photos of negelct they could have the U2 taken away or fine the store owner. Birds should at least be handled in the back room, a cramped cage is no way to live. I don't think it would get more than a misdemeanor or warning unless you can clearly document the horrid conditions.. https://www.animallaw.info/statutes/us/california

You can also take photos and send them to animal rights organizations. They love stories like these, and really hate the people who do these things to animals. If enough publicity gets out someone may go and either buy the U2 or it will force the store owner to take care of her. Internet shaming is a powerful thing for businesses, they can't escape it as most organizations encourage people to flood their emails asking for them to change their ways. Take a picture of their store front, that will help get them moving if it's posted. 
If you send it to an animal rights organization, make sure to make the description of the conditions are as heart-wrenching as possible so it will be looked into faster. How long she's been suffering like this is going to be your hook along with backing it up with multiple photos. I'm hoping the poor U2 gets help soon. ....

Edit: Most people will ask if you have talked to the owner first though. If you have then include what the owner said, if they refused to improve the conditions at all or didn't follow up on it. If you haven't talked to the owner yet maybe ask them if they can change her diet and hand them print outs of what diet a U2 should have and if they play with her at all. If they don't then they can be slammed with that. :3


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## CloudySkies

Another thought about the court case. Since you may not gain tons of ground on the animal abuse part (tragedy, but a reality), I would try to push the approach that she neglected the agreement you had with her on the care of your pet. Like I said in a previous post, be very clear about what was accepted between you two (and if you have anything in writing or text, that would obviously help) on his care, like cleaning his cage daily, fresh food and water daily, letting him out of his cage daily, etc. Then take the approach that if she was doing all of this daily, there isn't any possible way a reasonable person (very important to compare her actions vs what the majority of people would consider reasonable) would miss his injuries and the fact that he needed to see a vet. I do think its hard to argue that any shmoe wouldn't realize that a bloody cage and bloody bird with several feathers on the floor of the cage would need a trip to the vet. I think its good that you're stressing that you're not accusing her of hurting your bird (jury's out on that one though, but that's something you'll unfortunately never be able to prove unless she outright admits it), but rather that she did not get your bird the care a reasonable person would assume Rascal needed with that kind of injury. So then you just need to take that and make a clear line from that to her neglect of getting him care causing the medical issues he's been dealing with. If you could also find info on what probably would have happened if he had seen a vet right away vs the 5 day wait, that would be good too, because the court may decide that she only owes you what you've had to pay for his care due to the lack of immediate medical care vs the care he would have needed from the initial injury anyways.


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## ParrotletsRock

something like this would be perfect!!... http://www.amazon.com/Lees-Kritter-Keeper-X-Large-Rectangle/dp/B0002APZOY


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## nassrah

It would indeed ParrotletsRock !


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## Colorguarder08

One thing that might help is look directly at the person your talking to either the judge or a lawyer. Pretend there is no one else in the room don't glance around just focus solely on the person your talking to. Also the judge will HIGHLY doubt your case if your reading off a piece of paper. You want to appear as professional as possible and reading off a piece of paper does not look professional. Even in college and some high school classes teachers would fail you no matter how good and informative your presentation is if you were reading off a piece of paper (most are ok with note cards).


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## karendh

I've had to do public speaking in the past and I'm super nervous when doing it. I found that the best way was to make a note of what points I wanted to make on blank postcards in bold black letters, keep them in the order I wanted to raise the point and just glance down briefly to remind me. It worked a treat.


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## Guest

ParrotletsRock said:


> something like this would be perfect!!... http://www.amazon.com/Lees-Kritter-Keeper-X-Large-Rectangle/dp/B0002APZOY



Thanks! That would work. I wish the lid was more ventilated though... but I could easily modify it by sawing big open holes and then put a screen to covert the opening, but that would work


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## Amz

Colorguarder08 said:


> One thing that might help is look directly at the person your talking to either the judge or a lawyer. Pretend there is no one else in the room don't glance around just focus solely on the person your talking to. Also the judge will HIGHLY doubt your case if your reading off a piece of paper. You want to appear as professional as possible and reading off a piece of paper does not look professional. Even in college and some high school classes teachers would fail you no matter how good and informative your presentation is if you were reading off a piece of paper (most are ok with note cards).


Seconding this. Rather than reading the report, you should just retell what happened in your own words. Just think about Rascal and how much he deserves to win this court case. It could also help if you get a little emotional, but not overdramatic. Somewhat emotional will make the judge feel sorry for you. Overdramatic will just annoy him.

Spare no details about the injury and the extensive care he's needed. Make sure the judge understands how Rascal is like a child to you, but DO NOT mention how you don't have human kids. A lot of people have prejudices against people that choose to not have kids. If someone asks if you have kids, lie and say you're infertile. Then they won't mind as much.


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## Guest

Oh, wait a second! I totally forgot that The Container Store is about 40 min from where I live. I bet they would have a nice glass container I could use... I still prefer glass as it's more pleasant to look through and isn't as "musty" or "foggy" to look through as plastic.

When I get back in town I will go to the container store and see if I can find something even better  

All they sell is containers, I would be surprised if I don't find something.


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## TamaMoo

Amz said:


> Seconding this. Rather than reading the report, you should just retell what happened in your own words. Just think about Rascal and how much he deserves to win this court case. It could also help if you get a little emotional, but not overdramatic. Somewhat emotional will make the judge feel sorry for you. Overdramatic will just annoy him.
> 
> Spare no details about the injury and the extensive care he's needed. Make sure the judge understands how Rascal is like a child to you, but DO NOT mention how you don't have human kids. A lot of people have prejudices against people that choose to not have kids. If someone asks if you have kids, lie and say you're infertile. Then they won't mind as much.


I completely agree with letting it be known he is like a child to you, but not mentioning that you don't have and don't want human kids. It has nothing to do with the case and people do judge unfairly on that matter. If you KNOW you don't want human kids, it is a personal choice for personal reasons. I CAN'T have kids, yet fully support my friends and others who chose to remain childless. Even though I can't, I have been given grief by others who have the first assumption of 'childless by choice' and that childless by choice means you are heartless. It doesn't. At all. But since it has nothing to do with little man's case, I would just focus on him and not mention the other. If they press you about it, which they shouldn't since it isn't pertinent, a simple answer of 'it has just never happened', or other comment that is vague but lets them know you aren't a mother to miniature humans should be sufficient without giving details that aren't their concern as to why you don't.


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## CaliTiels

I third the statement about human children. I wouldn't say anything and if they get on your case say you're infertile. 

I don't know why people get on you if you don't want kids. People can have valid reasons. I don't want children because I don't want to pass my autism to them. 

But I would stress to the judge how much Lil' Rascal means to you... maybe without the child context


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## ParrotletsRock

I personally would not lie, that ruins your credibility, not to mention you re under oath. I agree with stressing why he means so much to you without saying childlike.


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## Guest

There is nothing wrong with saying I do not ever wants to have kids nor that he is like a child to me. I have NEVER wanted kids nor will I ever want kids. Simple as that. It is not for me. The world is overpopulated as it is. To be quite honest, it to a shame more people out there do not want to breed and reproduce. But it is none of their business if I don't want to have kids. I am simply going to say he is my best friend and like a child to me and to have this woman have NO regard for my beloved pet is despicable, negligent and downright abusive towards animals. Someone who does not notice a sick/dying bird in a cage for FIVE DAYS covered in blood and his bloody toys has no business taking care of any animals. Period. he was also acting sick, I immediately noticed this... puffed up sleeping when he is usually bright and happy... not to mention half his wings were suddenly missing!

I have to run to walmart now to buy a plastic container so that I don't have to waste time at "the container store" when I get back and can get him out of that place faster


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## Guest

This is not good, she said he must remain at the clinic for another entire week. He has already been there for a whole week. if he wasn't still being tube fed twice a day i could have brought him home. I will have to ask ehr how much longer he will be tube fed... because they don't let you tube feed at home and I have no idea how to to tube feed propbley. Poor bird has eben there for froever already =(


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## yokobirdie

Yay! Are you bringing Rascal home?


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## Guest

yokobirdie said:


> Yay! Are you bringing Rascal home?


No they won't let me until they restest his liver because his liver is in bad shape (he is not out of the woods yet). They will retest it in about 6 days... if results are good then he comes home 

I am going to try to get him home sooner.. because if they stop tube feeding him in a couple days then I see no reason for him to stay there longer. The fact that he's still being tube fed... makes it not possible for him to come home.


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## yokobirdie

Oh, I see. I posted too soon.  At least they're making sure Rascal is fully recovered before you bring him home.


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## Kiwi

Still great that the kidney's are good! Do they think he has a fracture at all?

I hope that the liver results are good and that Rascal gets off the feeding tube soon.

For kids I think I'd only adopt. There are so many people in the world and so many kids in orphanages. I feel like there are so many wonderful kids there, I would feel terrible not adopting.


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## Guest

Kiwi said:


> Still great that the kidney's are good! Do they think he has a fracture at all?
> 
> I hope that the liver results are good and that Rascal gets off the feeding tube soon.



I don't know if he has fracture... I'm going to ask her if he should have x-rays. I'm mostly worried about his liver. Even if he had a fracture... I don't know what could be done about it.

If his liver is fine when it's retested in a few days AND he maintains weight when they stop tube feeding, then he should be out of the woods 

I miss him so much =(


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## Kiwi

If it's a fracture, all they would need to do is align it and then it will heal on its own. It's good to find out fast so it doesn't start healing itself like that. Right now his liver is more important as it could be threatening to his health. A fracture wont heal that fast so you still have time for x-rays and to align it I think. 

I can't imagine being away from Kiwi for too long if she was like that. Even one day was torture. Are you going to visit him today? Maybe give him a hug. x3


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## Guest

Kiwi said:


> If it's a fracture, all they would need to do is align it and then it will heal on its own. It's good to find out fast so it doesn't start healing itself like that. Right now his liver is more important as it could be threatening to his health. A fracture wont heal that fast so you still have time for x-rays and to align it I think.



Shoot, in that case I need to push for x-ray. He REALLY got banged up badly... I hope he didn't fracture anything. I will call the vet tomorrow morning. Thanks.

PS: If he did fracture anything, I think something on his wings would have fractured. Just a guess.


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## Kiwi

I would ask the vet if he is ok to go under for an x-ray before doing it. It's just a tiny bit of gas so it shouldn't hurt, but If he is in a bad condition because of his liver then it may not be a good idea yet. It's one of those things where you don't know which is the greater evil yet. Of course if there is a fracture on his wing he might not be able to fly as well when it heals wrong and arthritis if it went into a joint... or he could have breathing difficulties and pain with a fractured keel. The vet should be able to kind of tell by feeling around the keel, it would be hard to tell on the wing with those injuries. 

Edit: Posted too fast. My vet told me that fractures can take as little as three weeks to set though so you would have to do it soon.


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## Guest

Kiwi said:


> I would ask the vet if he is ok to go under for an x-ray before doing it. It's just a tiny bit of gas so it shouldn't hurt, but If he is in a bad condition because of his liver then it may not be a good idea yet. It's one of those things where you don't know which is the greater evil yet. Of course if there is a fracture on his wing he might not be able to fly as well when it heals wrong and arthritis if it went into a joint... or he could have breathing difficulties and pain with a fractured keel. The vet should be able to kind of tell by feeling around the keel, it would be hard to tell on the wing with those injuries.
> 
> Edit: Posted too fast. My vet told me that fractures can take as little as three weeks to set though so you would have to do it soon.


I don't know... putting him under gas right now for x-ray doesn't seem like good idea. I will ask the vet what she thinks... but my other concern is that she might mainly want xrays to make more money!! I read reviews on this vet from other patients saying she did this and that just for the money and that this vet is money hungry!! I am not surprised though.


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## Kiwi

Yeah I also thought it wasn't a good idea. The only problem is that they heal really fast, Kiwi's dislocation was set in a few days and was unmovable. I just wanted to let you know so that once his liver is healed you are prepared that the fracture could be starting to set.

When his liver is doing poorly I wouldn't put him under either. I would just ask if she thinks he has a fracture or not. 

I've heard stories of a similar vet in my area who seemed to hate people and animals and charged them a lot more than other places for the same kinds of treatments. I don't know how that place is still in business. I hope that she wont try and sacrifice Rascal's well being for anything.


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## Colorguarder08

Just like in humans once the fracture starts healing in order to realine it they would have to rebreak it then realine and seeing as he has been through so much pain as it is I wouldn't have it done personally. The x rays could help you if he did indeed fracture anything it will further the abuse case but personally I wouldn't have them realine it at this point.


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## nassrah

I strongly agree with Colorgarder08- The little darling has been through a lot,let s wait until his liver is recovering,this is the most important,and then ,Juliet ,try to bring him home . He has been there for far too long, he needs to go back to his home and be looked after for the person that much loves him in this world - You ! Do you not agree X x Teresa


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## tielbob

That bird's been through enough. Forget about xrays. It's risking his life no matter how 'safe' anyone says it is. I nearly lost my bird because of how 'safe' the anesthesia was and yes, it was administered by an avian vet who knew what she was doing. Of course they have their place in diagnosis and treatment but seems out of line here.
Also, anyone who has been seriously ill and hospitalized can tell you that it can take a year or more to feel like yourself again. You feel a persistent weakness and energy loss because of what happened to you. Only stands to reason that same can be expected for a bird. Rascal needs to come home as soon as he is eating enough on his own to be done with tube feeding.


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## Kiwi

Maybe call one of the other two vets and explain the situation with the liver and the vet said they couldn't be moved, but ask what their opinion on x-rays would be before asking that vet? That way you can get the other professionals that care about animals opinion instead of worrying about your current vet cheating you on that.


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## sunnysmom

I'm just catching up from Friday. I'm so glad to hear that Rascal is doing better and I'm also glad to hear that he's getting milk thistle. Hopefully he continues to improve and you can bring him home soon.


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## yokobirdie

Yay! I'm glad he's doing better.


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## nassrah

I am happy too about the milk thistle sunnysmom . I was reading about it and it is proven that it does improve liver function,even in very serious situations like cirrosis caused by alchool and hepatitis . Hopefully,our little Rascal will be able to come home soon.Fingers strongely crossed ! X x


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## Guest

I spoke to the vet today and I'm picking Rascal up this saturday and he's coming home!!!!  He really needs to have his blood taken again to recheck his liver this Thurs or Fri as he is having serious liver issue. His AST level is extremely high, it must come down. I HOPE when it's retested in a few days it will have at least down down... because so far BOTH bloodwork tests showed no decrease at all which is definitely VERY concerning.

When I return home I will have to rush to buy a container that I can keep him in as he must stay inside some form of a tub/container for quite some time where he is unable to climb.

I'm so happy I will finally be getting him out of that prison! I do have one final business trip I have to take Nov 18-21 (this trip cannot be cancelled unfortunately which REALLY sucks)... so I will be taking him to the NICE vet to be watched during that trip for 4 days. I then have no traveling I must do for long time thank goodness.

I am super worried about his liver situation though =(


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## Vickitiel

Yay!! :clap: Rascal you are so strong, keep it up little dude! I really believe he will pull through. That's great that you were able to get him out of that horrible vet's hands. You are both always in my thoughts!


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## nassrah

Juliet,I make CharVicki s words mine ! What a relief ! Rascal and you are in my prayers
Lots of love X x Teresa


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## Guest

Rascal must stay at the vet's clinic until Saturday morning, so he's not home yet unfortunately... but will be soon.. just 3 more days


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## TamaMoo

So glad to hear he is almost home! Joey and I are dancing with happiness!


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## Bird Crazy

I'm so glad he can go home soon! Yay Rascal! I hope his liver gets better soon too. Your a real fighter little guy!


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## Guest

I finally got Rascals bloodwork report back today that was taken 5 days ago.

-His uric acid went from an INSANELY high 31.5 (which indicated renal failure) to only 6.2!!! beyond awesome 
-His CPK went from a whooping 4190 to 343 (343 is still very high but it's going down I'm sure).
-His Phosphorus went from scary high 9.8 to 4.4.... all this is awesome!!!

BUT his liver only went from 1543 to 1054... still dangerously high... but it seems that also is hopefully down down slowly.

I'm very concerned that the vet is keeping him on allopurinol (drug for kidneys) considering his kidneys have recovered. Allopurinol causes liver damage... he already has liver damage and should not be taking that highly toxic drug anymore... vet wants to keep him on allopurinal for 3 weeks... this is crazy!!! His liver is failing..... last thing he needs is to damage his already highly damaged liver with this toxic drug.

Thus, I have called the NICE vet's clinic and asked them if she could please call me so I can ask her thoughts on this. I need second opinion ASAP.

He's coming home in 2 days!!!


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## dianne

Hi, Juliet.

I am so happy that the blood work has improved.

I haven't responded to all of your posts. However, I find I am checking in a couple of times a day and looking for news of Lil' Rascal and trying to send positive energy.

It is so sad you have had to go through all this. I really commend you for all you are doing to get the best care for the little guy.

It is fortunate that he is young. I think that has probably contributed to his ability to fight back from the results of this injury.

It's so nice that you have a boss who has been supportive to you.

Here's hoping for continued good news.


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## Guest

The nice vet just called me. She said just because his kidneys went back to normal levels on his bloodwork doesn't mean he no longer has inflammation, so she said he should stay on allopurinal for 2 more weeks just to be safe.... but if the stops eating... that's when you know he his having toxic reaction to that drug.

She also said it is great to see that his liver went from 1543 to 1054 (so it is at least slowly but surely going down) and that it can take quite some time for the liver to recover after such a serous injury. He will remain on milk thistle for quite some time... which is OK since that it just a herb... not toxic drug!

I feel much better now after getting second opinion regarding the allopurinol issue. I am so excited that I'll be getting him back soon. I cannot wait! 

He will have his blood taken again this Friday I believe before I pick him up saturday morning.


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## moonchild

YAY!!!! Such awesome news.


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## SoCalTiels

I haven't commented on this thread but I've been reading since the beginning. It's been a rough journey for you both, I can't even imagine. So happy to hear the good news and that Rascal pulled through this like a champ!


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## karendh

I've been checking at least three times a day and am really happy to see the blood results. Is Rascal now eating on his own without the tube feeding? The liver is remarkable in it's ability to recover. I bet you can't wait to have him home with you.


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## sunnysmom

Wonderful news. I'm glad he's doing better and will becoming home soon. And the good news is that the liver can repair itself. So even though he has liver problems, I think with milk thistle and a good diet, his liver should be fine.


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## Amz

Wonderful news, Juliet!!  I'm so happy for both of you. And everyone else is right, the liver will almost certainly heal itself with time. I'd much rather have liver damage than kidney damage.

Keep on keepin' on!


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## WyethKeth

Glad he's doing well.


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## Guest

karendh said:


> I've been checking at least three times a day and am really happy to see the blood results. Is Rascal now eating on his own without the tube feeding? The liver is remarkable in it's ability to recover. I bet you can't wait to have him home with you.



Vet said he is still being tube fed twice a day, tube feeding will stop when I pick him up this saturday morning. It is super strange that they are still tube feeding him though. I guess maybe to make sure he eats enough while he heals suppose. I was told I must weigh him every day once I have him back home.

I am just too relieved beyond words, because this whole situation could have ended in total disaster and I would not have been able to handle it, noway. Thank goodness it looks like there will be a happy ending  I know many out there aren't so lucky =(


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## Kiwi

I'm so glad he is doing well still and I can't wait until you can bring him home! I'm sure he'd love some scritches and snuggles. I'm also glad he is being tube fed, that will cover any bases if he isn't feeling too well because of the medication. I think his liver will be fine, with that short amount of exposure time to the injury and medication even if it does get damaged, it shouldn't be bad enough that it won't heal in a month or two. If the vet suspects damage you may want to ask if you should put him on milk thistle for a while longer.

If you want, there may be cheaper places to get Milk Thistle and other extracts than from your vet. This is if somehow he has to be on it for a long time and you don't want to pay whatever they are overcharging for it since the vet is probably still money hungry. Online the stuff comes in a tincture from Avix, Healx, or Avitech Herbal Extracts. a small jar of it will be around $13-14 and would last forever with 770 drops in the container for the 1 oz. You only give them once or twice a day.
My two favorite places to shop for things are My Safe Bird Store and WingedVictory's. Both have great prices, but what I love about WingedVictory's is that herbal extracts ship for free. I get Kiwi's arthritis herbal extract from them. It's nice not to have that extra $6-$10 dollar shipping


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## Guest

Kiwi said:


> I'm so glad he is doing well still and I can't wait until you can bring him home! I'm sure he'd love some scritches and snuggles. I'm also glad he is being tube fed, that will cover any bases if he isn't feeling too well because of the medication. I think his liver will be fine, with that short amount of exposure time to the injury and medication even if it does get damaged, it shouldn't be bad enough that it won't heal in a month or two. If the vet suspects damage you may want to ask if you should put him on milk thistle for a while longer.
> 
> If you want, there may be cheaper places to get Milk Thistle and other extracts than from your vet. This is if somehow he has to be on it for a long time and you don't want to pay whatever they are overcharging for it since the vet is probably still money hungry. Online the stuff comes in a tincture from Avix, Healx, or Avitech Herbal Extracts. a small jar of it will be around $13-14 and would last forever with 770 drops in the container for the 1 oz. You only give them once or twice a day.
> My two favorite places to shop for things are My Safe Bird Store and WingedVictory's. Both have great prices, but what I love about WingedVictory's is that herbal extracts ship for free. I get Kiwi's arthritis herbal extract from them. It's nice not to have that extra $6-$10 dollar shipping



Thanks Kiwi  

They said he will have to remain on milk thistle for at least a year. I'm not sure if they've been putting it into his water or giving it to him orally?... I'll find out soon.

I cannot wait to give him scritches. I normally scritch him constantly... he must have pesky pin feathers by now since I know nobody is giving him any attention at all. He's just sitting all by himself in that incubator on top of that food dish, poor thing. He LOVES to cuddle... he will enjoy being back home. He probably doesn't know what on earth happened to him!


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## yokobirdie

Yay! I'm so glad to hear that this story has a happy ending! Rascal will be at home with you tomorrow!


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## Kiwi

I think it would be Avitech's herbal ones since they can also be put in water. Putting it in water will probably dilute the flavor because they are strong. It also will not make it last as long because it requires 8 drops twice a day depending on the size of the water container. I've tried Kiwi's arthritis medication, it has a pretty strong taste. Kiwi seems to like it like that so I didn't need to put it in water. Once in a while she will shake her head a little though and it goes everywhere. xD

If it looks like this and costs more than $13.99 you can get it for that exact price online at the WV store.
http://www.avitec.com/category-s/47.htm

I bet he will be so excited to come home and just be loved, poor baby. I hope he gets spoiled lots after he gets out. x3


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## Guest

Kiwi said:


> I think it would be Avitech's herbal ones since they can also be put in water. Putting it in water will probably dilute the flavor because they are strong. It also will not make it last as long because it requires 8 drops twice a day depending on the size of the water container. I've tried Kiwi's arthritis medication, it has a pretty strong taste. Kiwi seems to like it like that so I didn't need to put it in water. Once in a while she will shake her head a little though and it goes everywhere. xD
> 
> If it looks like this and costs more than $13.99 you can get it for that exact price online at the WV store.
> http://www.avitec.com/category-s/47.htm
> 
> I bet he will be so excited to come home and just be loved, poor baby. I hope he gets spoiled lots after he gets out. x3



He will be pampered like crazy once he gets home  I will try to find out how long he must remain in that fish tank though because I'm still unsure. It would be super dangerous to not be really really careful with him now especially since he is used to being fully flighted... and now ALL his flight feathers were literally ripped out by the roots making him drop straight down like a rock.


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## nassrah

Juliet 
Reading this page today has really made my day I am so happy for Rascal and you ! there were times when I doubted we would have such a wonderful happy ending like this and felt very concerned about you,specially when you were typing and the letters were confused,that was a clear indication of the huge amount of genuine stress you were under . I am very glad to admit I was wrong and the worst is over now.Dont worry Rascal s liver is going to recover,slowly and steady . It is thanks to you,always being an excellent Mom to him,feeding him properly and giving him lots of love that he was saved . I wish every animal s owner were at least one third as caring and loving as you are.We would not have so many abandoned and abused animals in the world.
Tomorrow its finally Saturday and be sure that I will be waiting anxiously for an update about Rascal and you . All the best and lots of Love for Rascal and you from Brazil X x Teresa


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## Guest

nassrah said:


> Juliet
> Reading this page today has really made my day I am so happy for Rascal and you ! there were times when I doubted we would have such a wonderful happy ending like this and felt very concerned about you,specially when you were typing and the letters were confused,that was a clear indication of the huge amount of genuine stress you were under . I am very glad to admit I was wrong and the worst is over now.Dont worry Rascal s liver is going to recover,slowly and steady . It is thanks to you,always being an excellent Mom to him,feeding him properly and giving him lots of love that he was saved . I wish every animal s owner were at least one third as caring and loving as you are.We would not have so many abandoned and abused animals in the world.
> Tomorrow its finally Saturday and be sure that I will be waiting anxiously for an update about Rascal and you . All the best and lots of Love for Rascal and you from Brazil X x Teresa



Teresa, thanks so much for your kinds words... at times I also thought this might not have happy ending mostly because of the two words "renal failure". I am glad we were both wrong 

I really appreciate this forum, it was indeed HUGE help from everyone. Yes, my typing was ballistic... I was so stressed I couldn't bother correcting all my typos I was totally freaked out!  I never cried so much in my life and I've been through some really rough times... but this topped the caked! 

Nobody better mess with my bird again, that's all I've got to say


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## nassrah

We are all here for you !X x


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## Tequilagirl

I too was checking like 10 times a day hoping to read some good news.

You can't imagine how relieved I was when I saw he was getting better. That little bird better know how lucky he is to have a momma like you!


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## TamaMoo

Tequilagirl said:


> I too was checking like 10 times a day hoping to read some good news.
> 
> You can't imagine how relieved I was when I saw he was getting better. That little bird better know how lucky he is to have a momma like you!


I agree, but at the same time I am sure he knows just how awesome his momma's love for him is.


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## Amz

Not too much longer until he comes home! I bet he'll be simply overjoyed. I'm so glad this turned out with a happy ending.  You're both extremely lucky, given the circumstances and neglect he faced from the sitter. He deserves nothing less than a full recovery.


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## CaliTiels

Not just Rascal, all cockatiels are tough little boogers. 

Back in April I was typing posts saying Beaker was so thin, Jaid wouldn't stop throwing up and that I didn't think Beaker was going to make it. Man they proved me wrong. The goal is simply never stop believing. I got so much support here and my other bird forum. Definitely not as much replies as this thread , but I got a lot of PM's too. You always gain strength when you need it. I'm proud of you, for taking care of his needs, even though it's so hard on you. When the boys were sick, I was getting sick too. I had a cold/fever for a few days after intensive one-on-one care with them. Handfeeding them, syringe feeding them liquids, making the food, cleaning, heating, cuddling for reassurance, making homemade herbal treatments. All that everyday for 2 weeks. It's hard.

I admire your and Rascal's bravery through all this and very much looking forward to seeing when he comes home


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## yokobirdie

Yay! Rascal is a tough little guy!


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## RexiesMuM

Glad to hear he is doing so well . I bet he will be happy when he comes home


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## Guest

I just spoke to the vet and she said she is not going to retest his liver for another 2 weeks because otherwise it would be a waste of money to check it again so soon (since liver problems are very slow to heal). Happy to hear she would not retest so soon again unnecessarily.

I am picking him up tomorrow 2pm and bringing him home!!! I am so excited!!! 

First I must buy that 10 gallon fish tank again. The vet said I should not worry about silicone gunky materials lining the tank to prevent water leaks and that he should not bother it.

He must remain in the fish tank for entire month. That is crazy!!! I wonder why so long? I will find out more tomorrow. I know I will have to be super careful with him for the next month.

But he is coming home.... yay!!! I will post pic of him once he gets home


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## karendh

I can hardly wait to hear that he is home again. Even if he has to stay in the fish tank for a month at least he will have you to cuddle him and perhaps you can put some of his favourite toys in there with him. He will be so happy to be with you again.


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## Kiwi

I'm so happy that he's coming home tomorrow!!! You're going to have to make him all of his favorite foods, watch movies, and give him lots of scritches!! 

For the tank, you could just cover it up if he starts picking at it. Or pull it off, it is messy and you need a razor blade to do it. It depends on how well it was done if it just peels off or if it takes a long time to remove.

They're probably keeping him in there that long to make sure his wounds heal right and extra activity doesn't upset his liver. Kiwi had to stay her bin for 4 weeks with restricted activity. It was ok to move around so the wounds didn't get stiff and for circulation, but not much else. For Rascal, he is going to probably try and flap his wings when he isn't allowed out to fly or anything. Kiwi would flap for a minute to get rid of excess energy, but hopefully Rascal wont because that would be so painful to watch. ><

I would keep the glass tank out of the sunlight since glass absorbs heat easily and he could overheat. Glass floors can be really cold so you might want to line it with paper towels. I cut a yoga mat up and fit it on the bottom then covered that with paper towels to offset the cold floor and provide some cushioning when Kiwi walked. I also put a toy and perch in there so she could perch if she wanted to and so that she wouldn't get bored and start picking at herself.

What medication is he coming home with? Hopefully at least meloxicam, it's like birdy motrin for inflammation and pain. I'd give him lots of fruits, vegetables, and pellets to reduce inflammation. Almonds, walnuts, ginger, turmeric, kale, and tart cherries are some foods I can think of right now that would help with inflammation. I can look in the Phoenix Landing Cookbook later for more things if you want. Here are some links on tart cherries and gout I found interesting:
http://forums.avianavenue.com/index.php?threads/senior-parrot-food-experiences.144063/
http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/gout.html


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## tielbob

Can't wait to hear that he's finally home.


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## karenabcz

*Unbelievable!*

What a horrible story. I'd be angry too! Two weeks have passed since you posted your message. Hope your bird is okay.


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## karendh

I keep on checking here to see if Rascal is home yet, can hardly wait!!


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## Guest

Rascal is finally home!!!! 

The second I walked out of the clinic he chuckled a tiny bit inside the carrier you could totally tell he was happy to be out of there. When I got home I just held him and gave him scritches for a really long time. All he wanted to do was cuddle... also keep making baby chirping sounds. He freaks out real badly if I put him in fish tank... because all he wants to do is be on my shoulder. He tries and tries to come through the glass fish tank to come to me and goes ballistic. I don't want him to hurt himself so I just put him on my shoulder for now so he chills out.

I'm being super careful with him.. he only gets to sit on my shoulder if I'm sitting down. He's definitely not his normal self though... he won't bob his head at all (and he would ALWAYS bob his head before)... he just wants to sleep/preen on my shoulder and relax. I wonder what he'll be like tomorrow.

I am working home all day tomorrow though and his fish tank will be on my desk next to me... I just need to make sure he eats enough!

Here are some pics... I pimped out his fish tank and hung his favorite toys using those "command" sticker hooks.

I picked him up and they gave me FOUR medications he must take daily. I will list what those meds are later.

The vet bill was $3600!!! (was way more than I could have ever imagined, Rascal is WORTH every penny of course... but they really took me to the cleaners that vet did) and that's not even the final bill because he must have bloodwork again in 2 weeks to check his liver. I am going to sue that horrid woman who did this to my poor bird... problem is that small claims court can only sue for a max of $3K.... and good luck trying to collect anything from that woman even if I won the case.

Sorry for long post... I am just so happy he's back where he belongs and he totally knows it!


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## Guest

I'm nervous about tomorrow though... because I don't know how easy or difficult it is to give a bird medication orally using the syringe. I have to give some meds twice a day... guess I will find out tomorrow when I give him the first dose tomorrow morning, yikes!

I hope it's easier than giving meds to a dog orally lol.

If anyone has any tips it would be super appreciated. They told me to hold the tip of the syringe near his mouth corner and try to push his beak open and then push the syringe.


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## dianne

I am so happy to see him home.


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## Mayra

Rascal looks really good! I'm so happy for you two. Sounds like he's happy to be back home on your shoulder. Poor little guy's been through so much, no wonder he just wants to perch on you and relax. I hope he gets back to his happy, healthy self soon


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## karendh

I am so happy that he is home with you again. It's 23.10 here and I have just checked in before I go to bed. Goodnight to both you and Rascal xx


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## TamaMoo

Looking good, Rascal! Happy to see you home!


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## estypest

Been following Rascal's progress and very glad to see him home and in pride of place on the shoulder!


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## Guest

I picked him up several hrs ago from the vet and he's been on my shoulder ever since lol. He simply refuses to do anything else, freaks out if I don't let him. I do place him inside the fish tank every so often to make sure he eats I (but I'm forced to sit right in front of the tank or he won't eat lol)... he ate a few minutes ago. Here's a pic 

I need to make sure he eats enough and gains weight! I'm weighing him now every morning.


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## Kiwi

Yay, he's home!! I think it's a normal reaction, poor little guy was separated from you for so long. Kiwi was so freaked out and in pain when I got her home from the vets she didn't want to leave me for the next few days and wouldn't eat unless i was physically right next to her. The pain also prevented her from eating much unless I tried to force her to eat. I was lucky to get half a sprig of millet into her. I hope Rascal has some good pain medication, it will be hard to get him to eat if he is in pain.


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## Vickitiel

So wonderful that Rascal is home!! :clap: He looks very pleased to be with you again.


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## Clair

That happened to us when we brought our 'tiel home from a 4-5 day hospital stay. He hated the fish tank and just paced and paced and paced and we finally took him out and let him hang with us and he was sooo happy and content. We knew he'd be miserable spending the night in it, so we let him sleep in his own cage and he was fine. 

I'm really happy for you both that he's home. :clap:


----------



## Guest

Ya, In noticed... he definitely does NOT like that fish tank at all... even though I pimped it out real good... he still hates it! I also have to sit right in front of him or he refuses to eat!

Thankfully I'm home all day this weekend and next week... then I must go to Boston for 4 days  ... but then no traveling for entire month and then will be home entire winter season.

I will know he's fine once he starts acting like his normal self... he's totally not himself now... not even close.

He was preening on my shoulder and is now still on my shoulder of course... (well else would he be lol) and is grinding his beak


----------



## CloudySkies

Glad to hear he's home! What a relief!


----------



## Guest

I do have a huge concern though... all evidence really does suggest that his injury occurred in his 17 inch travel cage he was staying in at that woman's house... I say this because of the amounts of blood scattered all over the entire cage not to mention ALL his flight feathers that were either yanked out or fell out... the woman did finally admit she startled him in the middle of the night (around 4 or 5am) causing him to get nightfrieght episode (there is more to the story I'm sure but she is clearly not honest individual). If however, the nightfrieght DID cause his severe injuries then that brainless irresponsible woman clearly did NOTHING to calm him down... 

... obviously she just left him to thrash and trash around forever, the PROLONGED thrashing and thrashing for who know hows many minutes straight caused massive inflamantion etc. Vet said all his flight feathers were either yanked out, fell out due to inflamation or cut with scissors.

If this IS what actually happened (injuries from nightfrieght)... I think it's a REALLY bad idea to take him to a vet to have them watch him while I'm out of town because there is NOBODY there in the middle of the night at the clinic to STOP him if he goes into that psycho nightfreight episode... because of this I fear this disaster will happen all over again!! 

The nice vet's clinic told me they have volunteers who would watch Rascal at their house... what would you do? Leave him in the vet's clinic or have one of the volunteer's take him to their house?

I would REQUIRE I see where the bird would be staying though! I'm worried this disaster will happen again if he gets nightfrieght with nobody around to STOP or calm him =(


----------



## Clair

My vote is for the volunteer's house, provided they know how to administer medicine.


----------



## Kiwi

I'm glad it was a white travel cage so that you could tell. The lady probably just tried to quickly wipe the blood off, that doesn't work too well with cages. I had to scrub to get all of Kiwi's blood off of her's.

Here is how to give them medicine:
http://www.birdtricks.com/blog/how-to-give-medication-to-a-parrot/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUv7gFi8W3w

I would go with the volunteers and make sure they know what to do if he has a night fright so he doesn't hurt himself again.


----------



## Guest

Kiwi said:


> I'm glad it was a white travel cage so that you could tell. The lady probably just tried to quickly wipe the blood off, that doesn't work too well with cages. I had to scrub to get all of Kiwi's blood off of her's.
> 
> Here is how to give them medicine:
> http://www.birdtricks.com/blog/how-to-give-medication-to-a-parrot/
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUv7gFi8W3w
> 
> I would go with the volunteers and make sure they know what to do if he has a night fright so he doesn't hurt himself again.



Thanks for the links.

I won't be surprised if I end up having to go to the vet twice a day to have them do it if I run into a problem or chicken out (at least the vet is literally 2 min from my house ). I will know the verdict tomorrow morning when I attempt to give him the first dose. 

It would be much easier if he didn't have so many different medications... I have to syringe him several times a day because some of the meds are needed twice a day. The vet didn't even tell me for how long I have to give it to him... and the tech didn't know. Will find out on Monday.


----------



## Kiwi

Some vets want you to come back and do another check up before they tell you how long. Kiwi's vet had her on them until the puncture on her leg closed and that was weeks later. Good thing she was on them thought because there was a piece of bone stuck in her toe that looked like it was rotting. Sometimes extended antibiotics are a good thing. 

I hate giving Kiwi medication. Giving her one of her supplements right now is like the medication all over again because she hates it. I use a towel for Kiwi, if you don't want to flip them on their back... you can just place them on the bed, put the towel over them, expose their head around the towel, then grab their head like that and give them the meds. This way is the least stressful for Kiwi because she hates being flipped on her back and will overheat before I can get all the medication in from all her struggling.


----------



## slugabed

Yay Rascal's back! He looks so happy to be on your shoulder. I hope this is the beginning of the end of the nightmare.

Also the vet really took you out to the cleaners alright. If the small claims court can't cover the costs, can you use tort law to get the stupid woman?


----------



## Guest

slugabed said:


> Yay Rascal's back! He looks so happy to be on your shoulder. I hope this is the beginning of the end of the nightmare.
> 
> Also the vet really took you out to the cleaners alright. If the small claims court can't cover the costs, can you use tort law to get the stupid woman?



I'm not sure unfortunately, I will have to investigate this further on Monday. After I paid the $1500 for first few days of treatment the vet said the remaining treatment would be much cheaper than first payment made... yet she hit me with an additional $2,000+ today! 

This vet knew I was having mental breakdown over Rascal... so she knew she had me by the "balls".


----------



## Guest

I don't see how this fish tank thing is going to work out... he is extremely unhappy/stressed bouncing around inside the glass tank.

I'll keep him in fish tank... but this whole thing just seems weird to me... especially since he never moves around his travel cage at night... he stays in his bed.

He's banging at the glass loudly constantly... in his smaller travel cage he is actually very still usually chilling out on his perch. The tank is causing far more stress than his travel cage if you ask me... cuz he's a laid back tiel... not a conure who usually jumps around constantly like a small kid. Hopefully he'll calm down get used to it


----------



## nassrah

Oh Juliet Its so nice to read Rascal is home! X x


----------



## CloudySkies

Honestly, I would go with your gut on the cage thing, especially for sleeping. I don't see how he's going to harm himself if he's on a comfy perch and sleeping. I realize he might have another night fright and I guess the fish tank is safer but he also needs to sleep and not be stressed out. I'd probably just put him in his travel cage for sleeping.


----------



## Bird Crazy

I'm so glad Lil' Rascal is home! It must be so nice to have him near you. That's so cute how he wants you near to eat. I'm sure he'll get back to his old self soon now that he is home. 

I'd go with a volunteer they have through the vets office the next time you need to go away. Since it's a volunteer, the person probably does it because they enjoy animals, unlike that woman who just takes care of critters for money. I hope you can get some money out of her to help pay for that huge bill. Yikes!


----------



## karendh

I would just go with your instinct and go with whatever you feel Rascal is most comfortable with, you know him better then anyone, especially that vet. 

What was the purpose of the fish tank anyway, was it just so that he wouldn't move around too much? His smaller travel cage sounds good if his toys, food etc are all in the bottom and he has one cumfy perch near the bottom. 

Good luck with the meds, he's used to having them now and it may not be quite such a problem as you think, especially as it's you handling him.


----------



## blueybluesky

I'm so glad he's finally back home with you 

It's not to bad giving them their medications, it might seem a bit hard at first but after a while you start to get used to it, there were a few times I accidently dribbled the medicine out the other side of Car Alarms beak but then you kind of work out what way works better for them after a few times.


----------



## Guest

It's day 2 of having him home... he's still totally NOT himself... he does not bob his head at all... he normally always constantly bobs his head when I signal him to... now nothing at all. I don't know if it's because he feels sick? It is beyond obvious though that he's not acting himself... not even close.

I gave him his meds using syringe this morning... it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be but I have no idea if I did it correctly or if he even swallowed any of it.

I just wrapped a towel on top of him to hold him in place and then placed the tip of syringe next to his beak and then when he struggled he opened his beak and then I pushed syringe... but I have no idea if any of it even went in! His face is always stained pink (med is pink in color) when they do it... but when I did it... none got on his face, so I have no idea.

He's 81 grams today... here's a pic. He ate a tiny bit and is now sleeping on my leg... his usual favorite spot as I work on the computer all day.

I can't wait for him to bob his head and start acting his usual self a little bit... then I will know he's doing good and will be ok 

He's taking baytril, metacam, milk thistle and some other med they put into gallon of water. Weird, I just realized he's not taking allopurinol anymore...


----------



## dianne

I'm not surprised that he's not himself yet. He's been through a lot.It can take people a long time to come back from an illness. I was in the hospital for ten days with severe pneumonia two years ago. It took months for me to get back to myself.


----------



## yokobirdie

I'm so happy to hear that he's home! I hope he starts to feel himself soon.


----------



## Guest

So cute, I have a small food dish right in front of my monitor on my desk and he will totally signal me he's hungry. I then place him in front of bowl and he's eating again right now 

Then back he goes on my shoulder for another nap. I wish I could take a nap! I have a ton of work to do on the computer.


----------



## Tequilagirl

Poor little Rascal with his itty bitty wings, are they showing any signs of coming on again or is it too early?

Glad he's home with you now.


----------



## CaliTiels

I'm so happy to hear he is home!


----------



## Guest

Tequilagirl said:


> Poor little Rascal with his itty bitty wings, are they showing any signs of coming on again or is it too early?
> 
> Glad he's home with you now.



Not yet... probably going to take at least another month I guess. I cannot wait for him to be fully flighted again. Going to be unsafe situation till he can at least glide to the floor rather than dropping like a rock.

He's sleeping now, I am hungry but don't want to disturb him. Hate it when they sleep and force you to not move lol

EDIT: He really does look butchered though with those itty bitty wings.


----------



## karenabcz

Re: "The vet bill was $3600!!!"

Be sure you file animal cruelty charges against the perpetrator, take her to COURT and make her pay your bill.


----------



## Guest

karenabcz said:


> Re: "The vet bill was $3600!!!"
> 
> Be sure you file animal cruelty charges against the perpetrator, take her to COURT and make her pay your bill.



Unfortunately they are telling me that since I cannot prove she had INTENT that it will be almost impossible to press charges against that woman. This is insane... it was CLEARLY her NEGLIGENCE she did NOTHING when she knew the bird was injured! That to me IS intent and complete disregard and animal ABUSE!! They have been out to her house twice.

It's a very screwed up system unfortunately. Since this didn't happen to a human child, but to an animal... people like that woman are able to get away with what I would call CRIMINAL acts.

I will be following up with them on Monday.

... I feel it would be a nightmare to collect any funds from this woman even if I won the case, but you better believe I am going to fight and try... I am mad!


----------



## ParrotletsRock

You shouldn't have to prove intent to sue her for not doing her job... You entrusted your property (yes I know he's not "property to you, but in the eyes of the law...) to her and not only was it not looked after properly, cage clean, let out of cage etc, it (he) was damaged,injured in her care and she did nothing to help ensure his safety after he was injured. I think the fact she did not seek medical care should be grounds for cruelty tho.


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## Guest

ParrotletsRock said:


> You shouldn't have to prove intent to sue her for not doing her job... You entrusted your property (yes I know he's not "property to you, but in the eyes of the law...) to her and not only was it not looked after properly, cage clean, let out of cage etc, it (he) was damaged,injured in her care and she did nothing to help ensure his safety after he was injured. I think the fact she did not seek medical care should be grounds for cruelty tho.



That's exactly what I say, but they kept saying that she keep denying that she knew the bird was injuured. She's LYING and saying she "did not notice bird was injured".

Which is laughable considering all the blood everywhere... not to mention she would have literally had to have been blind to not realize suddenly half my birds wings were missing! She also KNEW he had nightfrieght episode whne she went into kitchen at 4 or 5 am... this I have proof of via text correspondence... yet she didn't even bother to examine bird for injuries... he was no doubt thrashing and thrashing for maybe even 20 min straight to have such severe injuries. I am disgusted with that woman, just horrible.


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## Kiwi

"If someone has injured or killed your animal companion, you may be entitled to damages–regardless of whether the animal was injured or killed on purpose or accidentally–so long as the conduct was at least negligent. When an animal is injured or killed, you are generally entitled to compensation for the “market value” of the animal, veterinary bills and possibly punitive damages, mental anguish, and loss of companionship. What compensation is available depends entirely on the facts and circumstances of each case, and differs significantly from state to state." - http://aldf.org/resources/when-your...-companion-animal-has-been-injured-or-killed/

I would look at the link above it has some good stuff in it. Maybe you could sue for Bailment if negligence doesn't work.

This is from that link: "Bailment"–anytime you leave your animal with
another person for some kind of care or treatment, a "bailment" is
created. If anything happens to your animal while s/he is with that other
person, you can usually sue for the injuries. Generally, bailment cases are
much easier to win for animal owners. Examples are groomers, "day
care" facilities, and veterinarians. Note, however, in some cases, the
courts have decided that a bailment action cannot be brought against a
veterinarian.


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## Guest

Kiwi said:


> "If someone has injured or killed your animal companion, you may be entitled to damages–regardless of whether the animal was injured or killed on purpose or accidentally–so long as the conduct was at least negligent. When an animal is injured or killed, you are generally entitled to compensation for the “market value” of the animal, veterinary bills and possibly punitive damages, mental anguish, and loss of companionship. What compensation is available depends entirely on the facts and circumstances of each case, and differs significantly from state to state." - http://aldf.org/resources/when-your...-companion-animal-has-been-injured-or-killed/
> 
> I would look at the link above it has some good stuff in it. Maybe you could sue for Bailment if negligence doesn't work.
> 
> This is from that link: "Bailment"–anytime you leave your animal with
> another person for some kind of care or treatment, a "bailment" is
> created. If anything happens to your animal while s/he is with that other
> person, you can usually sue for the injuries. Generally, bailment cases are
> much easier to win for animal owners. Examples are groomers, "day
> care" facilities, and veterinarians. Note, however, in some cases, the
> courts have decided that a bailment action cannot be brought against a
> veterinarian.



Thanks so much for the link, that was helpful. I will let you guys know what happens


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## Kiwi

No problem. Yeah it's harder for some people to personalize with animals if they don't have them. Especially with birds because dogs and cats are more common. Like some animals don't have any worth to some people. Fish for example, if she killed your fish there would be almost no way to get her unless she poured like bleach in the tank. If she forgot to feed it she could just say that it didn't want to eat or something. I hate how the law is so lax with animals and can't wait for some reforms for that. :/


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## Guest

I totally agree.

But oh wow... I just noticed both of his legs.. all his feathers are missing on his legs! Do you think they shaved both his legs at the vet? Why would they shave his legs? I wonder if that's from the injury you think?

I took a picture of his legs while he was eating. He's been pigging out several times today even ate some organic corn and chewed up my chair lol... he gained 2 grams today... was 81 this morning and now 83 

The vet said she wasn't sure what would happen once they stopped tube feeding him etc... and that the reason he might have been improving at the clinic was because of the tube feeding etc... she said real test is if he maintains weight at home and when his liver gets rechecked. I've been encouraging him to eat much as possible. Seems like the little piggy's weight is staying steady just fine


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## Tisena

Glad he's gaining weight, and that he's finally home. Glad he's pigging out too! I don't know why'd they'd shave him but I always wondered what the top of their legs were like, Blizz loves his leg feathers tickled but doesn't let me nosey under them


----------



## Guest

OMG, I am not doing very well with giving him his meds with the syringe. I almost squirted it into his eye! He keeps moving his around around too much which makes it very difficult... I don't even know if I got any inside his mouth, a lot of it got all over my fingers. It's difficult to hold his head still because his eyes are on the side of his face.

This is not good. If I don't get better at it tomorrow I'm going to take him to the vet and let them do it properly... I need to hold his head more still with the towel but he's squirming around so much!


----------



## Tisena

This video helped me the most when Bluebell wasn't well. Poor tiel but the man is very good with the medicine giving

http://youtu.be/dP--1dDa52k


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## karenabcz

What to do when your companion animal has been injured or killed
WRONGFUL DEATH OR INJURY OF
AN ANIMAL
http://aldf.org/resources/when-your...-companion-animal-has-been-injured-or-killed/

There are also different categories of crimes against companion animals:
Class 4 felony
Class B misdemeanor

When my dog was attacked by a pitbull, I took the owner to court. She was put in jail and her dog was euthanized. My vet bill was $1400. All I got was $300. She never paid the balance.

Your poor helpless bird suffered alone!
FILE CHARGES!


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## Colorguarder08

Juliet said:


> OMG, I am not doing very well with giving him his meds with the syringe. I almost squirted it into his eye! He keeps moving his around around too much which makes it very difficult... I don't even know if I got any inside his mouth, a lot of it got all over my fingers. It's difficult to hold his head still because his eyes are on the side of his face.
> 
> This is not good. If I don't get better at it tomorrow I'm going to take him to the vet and let them do it properly... I need to hold his head more still with the towel but he's squirming around so much!


The first day Riley was on antibotics at home she stabbed herself in the eye with the syringe by thrashing around really hard what I did was hold her close to my chest and kind of stabalized her neck with my thumb and index finger not holding it tight but restricting her movement made giving her medicine SO much easier.


----------



## slugabed

Great to see that Rascal's gaining weight.

Feeding medication can be tough to animals. I've had cats and my friends had dogs, and even with our best efforts there can be some wastage on occasion. With my cats it always was a two-person job, sometimes three, and boy did they hate me for a while after that...


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## dom1959

*tisena*

thanks for posting that link, gosh knows i hope i don't need it.
but knowledge is always good to acquire.


----------



## Jaguar

They probably shaved his legs to take blood. Don't stress about the meds, it's hard, and you'll waste some in the beginning, but you'll get the hang of it. Have someone come over to help you if you can


----------



## blueybluesky

I hold mine the same way I saw my vet do it when I medicate them, they don't use a towel but I do. I hold their back in the palm of my hand and using two fingers I hold both sides of the head so they can't move it to much, gets it done nice and quick. 
The pink on his feathers are probably from all the times they may have missed but it's good that you didn't get any on him it means it likely went in his beak, sometimes mine will shake their head after their medicine as if it tastes bad and that's how I know they got a good bit of it.


----------



## karendh

I'm so happy that Rascal is gaining weight and seems much better. 

I think the vet shaved the feather on his legs so that they could do the blood test, just my opinion.

I was shocked when I saw the cost of the treatment. My vet is also a friend on mine and I spoke to him about the type of treatment, drugs, length of stay, tube feeding, tests etc that Rascal received from your vet and he estimated that the cost here would have been in the region of E400, approximately $500. What a difference!!


----------



## Guest

OMG this is definitely NOT going to work! I just tried to give him his meds via syringe this morning he's moving his head around so much I don't know why I'm having such difficulties keeping his head still. I tried to hold him several different ways with towel without... etc. That man on youtube makes it look so easy!!!!

I would much rather take him to the vet at least once a day (he needs the meds twice a day) so I know that at least he got the meds done correctly once a day... rather than not at all or in his eye or nose, yikes. I tired and tried to hold his head still. This is pathetic that I'm having such difficulties. 

He weighed 81 grams yesterday morning and 83 grams before he went to bed and this morning he weighs 80 grams... guess he pooped out 3 grams overnight????

He's full of energy this morning (he's not acting sick that's for sure LOL), but definitely still NOT himself... no head bobbing at all which is extremely unlike him.

EDIT: Just called vet they told me to come in 5pm today they will show me how they do it  Don't think that will help I seriously suck at syringe medicating a bird.


----------



## Guest

karendh said:


> I'm so happy that Rascal is gaining weight and seems much better.
> 
> I think the vet shaved the feather on his legs so that they could do the blood test, just my opinion.
> 
> I was shocked when I saw the cost of the treatment. My vet is also a friend on mine and I spoke to him about the type of treatment, drugs, length of stay, tube feeding, tests etc that Rascal received from your vet and he estimated that the cost here would have been in the region of E400, approximately $500. What a difference!!



I know this vet's took me to the cleaners, no doubt about that!


----------



## CaliTiels

Syringe feeding isn't that difficult. Once the vet shows you how to do it, it'll be a breeze


----------



## Guest

CaliTiels said:


> Syringe feeding isn't that difficult. Once the vet shows you how to do it, it'll be a breeze


I watched several youtube videos on how to do it, so I see the technique they use and it looks so easy... the problem I'm having is holding his head still. He moves his around really fast constantly! :blush: I think I'm afraid to squeeze his face too much and also don't want to hurt his eyeballs.

The nice tech there is going to show me how he does it. He said I can't be afraid to get a good grip around his neck to hold his head in place.


----------



## CaliTiels

You just hold under his cheek bones. I had to do it on one of my budgies, but they are a small size so I thought it was a bit easier. 

I practiced on Perfect Polly :rofl:


----------



## karendh

I have to give Birdie meds for arthritis once a day. It's a fairly thick liquid and apparently doesn't taste too bad so Birdie likes it. I chop part of a walnut up into pieces and put a drop on the top, mix well and give it to her that way. She also loves multigrain bread and I soak a piece of bread in the meds. I just make sure that she eats everything before I allow her to have anything else.


----------



## karendh

I have watched a couple of videos showing how to medicate your bird but all the birds I see are much tamer than Birdie and are handleable - Birdie isn't!!


----------



## Tequilagirl

Wouldn't it be nice if you could just wrap the meds in bacon like people do with dogs..


----------



## sunnysmom

I'm so glad Rascal is home! I'm sure he's going to improve quickly now that he's home with his momma. Is he better with the fish tank or still stressing out? I agree with what the others said and follow your instincts. If you think he'll do better in a cage do that- just pad the bottom and lower the perches. Keep us posted!


----------



## dianne

Juliet,
I think the legal situation needs to be seen as two different paths of action.

Anything to do with animal cruelty people would be something like a criminal case (I believe). This would have nothing to do with you recouping damages.

I think that, in order to get damages from the pet sitter, you would be filing a civil case (or small claims court, if a small enough amount).

I don't think anything the animal cruelty people decide is probative over a civil action for damages. I think it is analogous to the OJ Simpson murder case. He was acquitted in criminal court, and did noit go to jail. However, the families sued in civil court and were awarded damages (although, I don't think they managed to collect much of it--that's another issue).

You may already know all this, so please forgive me for providing it in case you don't. By the way, I am not lawyer and cannot give legal advice. I just am very interested in legal cases.


----------



## dianne

Juliet,
I just want to be clear that I think what happened to you is so extremely unfair and tragic. I am so sad reading about it. I do hope Rascal will recover.


----------



## Guest

Rascal's been sleeping in the fish tank at night... worried he might get nightfright in his travel cage again if I put him there. Almost feels safer in the tank for some reason.

He's never in the fish tank during the day though, he literally spends the whole day on my shoulder and desk eating then back on my shoulder... when I have to stand up or leave the room... that's when I place him into the tank for a couple minutes until I can sit back down. As I never have him on my shoulder if I have to stand up, don't want him to fall.

So he's being spoiled rotten 

I am eager to have him back to his normal self... he is so NOT himself, not even by a long shot. Hopefully because he feels traumatized mentally and not because he feels sick.

I got swamped today with work on computer, really need to pick up the pace with taking legal action against that woman ASAP.


----------



## Guest

dianne said:


> Juliet,
> I just want to be clear that I think what happened to you is so extremely unfair and tragic. I am so sad reading about it. I do hope Rascal will recover.



Thanks so much for your kind words. I am going to get that horrid woman!


----------



## nassrah

Juliet I have been reading all the new posts and feel so happy for Rascal and you.He is a little miracle! I am sure you will sort out the medication bit and he will soon be back to being the happy little fella in your signature.Dont forget he has been through a lot of distress,it takes him time to readjust .His pictures are lovely , you can see he is content to be with you .I just wanted to be able to blow him a kiss .Keep strong , the worst is already over,fortunately,but dont let the horrible woman get away with it. Sending lots of love for Rascal and you X x Teresa


----------



## Kiwi

I think with all your loving care and affection, Rascal will be himself in no time. He's probably just feeling really bad right now. Kiwi wasn't herself for weeks after her leg. Then one day they're back to normal again. 

I hope that woman pays at least some of the fee for the bills. It takes a while to pay a bill of that kind off, I know.


----------



## Nimra

Juliet said:


> Thanks so much for your kind words. I am going to get that horrid woman! [/QUOTE
> 
> Please do that. I don't like that woman. And i am glad that rascal is home. Take care of him.


----------



## Guest

This morning I am starting a small claims case against this woman. It's actually cheap to start a small claims case. Then they will send someone out to serve the witch. 

I gave Rascal his meds this morning. OMG! I don't know why I'm having such difficulties (having the vet show me didn't help much I'm embarrassed to admit). It's too difficult to pin him against my chest. I found that it's easier if I hold him slightly on his back so he can't push off my chest with his legs. This time I saw the meds go into his mouth... but afterwards he shook his face and I got milk thistle in my eye!

It's better it goes in my eyes than his LOL.

He's only supposed to get one drop of metacam, since it's such a tiny amount... that the only med I'm not sure if he got any of it.

The little piggy is maintaining weight well though... he's 82 grams this morning.


----------



## Guest

I gave him greens today and he nibbled at it a little. So happy he at least ate some greens... not much but better than nothing 

What a huge mess my printer is, will have to clean it out tonight lol. That's been one of his hang out spots since he's been recovering (printer is right next to me and my desktop monitor).


----------



## nassrah

AAHHHH !! What a cute picture Juliet! He looks happy,believe me.Maybe not back to his normal self 100% yet,but sure to be a happy birdie. It melts my heart . Lots of love for the two of you X x Teresa


----------



## nassrah

Never mind the printer,isnt it ? :grey tiel:


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## Guest

I actually just put a little step for him to make to easier for him to climb on top of the printer (because he slipped a couple times)... the step was a little too high for him


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## Guest

Wow... omg!!!

Lil' Rascal is starting to act like himself again. I just returned home from grocery shopping... so he was really happy and excited to see me. When I took him out of the fish tank and signaled him to bob his head he started dancing and bobbing his head like he usually does!

We also have this routine... where he imitates what I whistle and then chuckle... and he imitated me like he would always normally do. I whistle certain tune and then he chuckles.

Not fully himself yet, but so freakin awesome to see him starting to be himself again!!


----------



## Amz

Juliet said:


> Wow... omg!!!
> 
> Lil' Rascal is starting to act like himself again. I just returned home from grocery shopping... so he was really happy and excited to see me. When I took him out of the fish tank and signaled him to bob his head he started dancing and bobbing his head like he usually does!
> 
> We also have this routine... where he imitates what I whistle and then chuckle... and he imitated me like he would always normally do. I whistle certain tune and then he chuckles.
> 
> Not fully himself yet, but so freakin awesome to see him starting to be himself again!!


So happy to hear it! I knew he'd be okay.  good luck in your small claims case!


----------



## nassrah

Oh Juliet ! This is wonderful! I hope things will only get better for Rascal and you ! Hugs from Brazil Teresa


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## Tequilagirl

Lovely to hear! Keep us posted x


----------



## Guest

I'm think I'm going to keep this fish tank, it's the perfect thing to keep him in while I'm in the kitchen even once he's fully recovered.

This way he can safely be in the kitchen with me even when I'm cooking and since it's a fish tank... it prevents seeds/mess 

Now he can safely hang out and watch me cook. He's gaining weight... eating like a little piggy again.


----------



## dianne

I am so glad he's eating. The fish tank sounds brilliant.


----------



## Guest

I'm totally going to keep the fish tank, perfect for when he's in the kitchen. He went from 80 grams up to 85 grams now in just 2 days  Which was pretty much his normal weight before he nearly got killed.


----------



## moonchild

WOOHOO! yay Rascal!!

If you want, you could always move him to a smaller/short cage with a padded bottom, if he seems bothered by the lack of bars in the fish tank. This one would probably work well. http://www.petco.com/product/114152/Petco-Designer-White-Finch-Flight-Cage.aspx You could use low perches and pad the bottom with fleece. It worked brilliantly for me when I was caring for a budgie with a broken/splinted leg. He could climb, but not enough to hurt or over-exert himself.


----------



## Bird Crazy

It so wonderful to hear how well Rascal is doing. It's a marvelous success story. What a fighter he is. I hope your small claims case goes well!


----------



## stevechurch2222

Glad to hear Rascal is doing better,good luck with your small claims case,hope you win it.


----------



## Guest

moonchild said:


> WOOHOO! yay Rascal!!
> 
> If you want, you could always move him to a smaller/short cage with a padded bottom, if he seems bothered by the lack of bars in the fish tank. This one would probably work well. http://www.petco.com/product/114152/Petco-Designer-White-Finch-Flight-Cage.aspx You could use low perches and pad the bottom with fleece. It worked brilliantly for me when I was caring for a budgie with a broken/splinted leg. He could climb, but not enough to hurt or over-exert himself.



The reason I like the fish tank for the kitchen is because it will prevent any mess since it has glass walls. I'm think I'm actually going to get a smaller plastic container (for reptiles) similar to the fish tank... or maybe I'll just keep the fish tank, not sure yet.

He weighed 83 grams this morning  but I'm doing a terrible job giving him his meds with the syringe. I must be an idiot or something, I don't know... he's moving around so much it's so difficult to pin him still! I saw the pink colored baytril went all over the top of his beak barely any went in! Not good, if I fail again this afternoon I need to take him to the tech and let him do it at least once a day.


----------



## Guest

Thanks for wishing me luck suing that horrid witch!

I am calling the courthouse today: http://www.mypalmbeachclerk.com/locations.aspx

It looks like I might have to file my claim at the courthouse and not by mail. I will do it this Friday morning. I am EXTREMELY swamped right now preparing for my business trip to Boston, I am incredibly behind.... I would preferably do it when I return home from Boston next week when I'm not so incredibly stressed... but I don't know how time sensitive this is. One way or the other, the claim WILL be filed 100% within a week 

Also calling animal protection for an update today.


----------



## Guest

I am EXTREMELY EXTREMELY upset!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just called the palm beach county animal care and control for an update against the animal abuse case I opened against that disgusting woman who nearly KILLED my bird.

They told me they passed my case documents to Judith Arco who is the state attorney... they again told me there is NOTHING they can do because there is no PROOF of intent that the woman deliberately injured my bird. I kept saying over and over again that woman nearly KILLED my bird because of her negligence!!!! She KNEW my bird was injured and is CLEARLY LYING!!!! I clearly noticed my bird was injured within 5 minutes... yet that woman had my injured bird with her for FIVE DAYS!!!!!! how do you explain that???

If it's not animal ABUSE to leave an injured suffering bird in a cage covered in blood, half my birds wings also suddenly missing CLEARLY injured than WHAT exactly IS animal abuse!!!!!?????? That woman even texted me he had nightfrieght... she should have EXAMINED him the next day to make sure he was OK since she let him thrash and thrash in the case for who knows how long. When bid is having nightfrieght you are not supposed to let them thrash and thrash to hurt themselves!! turn the lights on etc and calm the bird!!!!

I am livid. The laws protecting animals vs humans is DISGUSTING. They told me they cannot do anything because the woman DENIES she knew bird was injured. Well OF COURSE she DENIES it!!!!... and if someone does not know a bird is injured when cage is covered in blood and half its wings are suddenly missing then that imbecile has NO right to be near animals.

Now I am really worried the judge in court will say the exact same thing those idiots working in animal protection and control told me.

My bird almost DIED because of that woman.

I am disgusted.


----------



## dianne

I think that what animal care is telling you is clearly wrong. You could try writing to the County Executive--your elected representative, who has responsibility for county agencies. If s/he is moved by your story, s/he might be able to put pressure on the animal care agency.


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## CaliTiels

Yes, the animal care rights are disgusting. If it's a human child then we call 10,000 agencies and care units. Animals deserve the same thing. They are as innocent as a child and deserve the same treatment and care


----------



## Guest

Yeah, it's really sad.

On a happy note, Rascal is now up to 86 grams! He'll probably shoot up to 87 grams by tonight. Vet said he wasn't gaining weight at the clinic, but at home he's been gaining weight like a little piggy and eating like a horse 

So sad I have to leave town for 5 days starting next Tues.


----------



## Tequilagirl

Re the baytril, can't you put it on something he'll eat instead that using the syringe? like squirting it inside a piece of birdie bread or something.


----------



## Guest

Tequilagirl said:


> Re the baytril, can't you put it on something he'll eat instead that using the syringe? like squirting it inside a piece of birdie bread or something.


They already made me put an entire tube of baytril inot a gallon of water and it's his only source of water for a while.

I think I'm actually getting the hang of it. This time I used a much smaller towel than a had tower because even the hand towel was too big/heavy. Then I pinned him against my chest (he was kicking like crazy!) and put 2 finders under his beak to try to hold his face still. I saw the meds go into his mouth (I pushed syringe twice so he doesn't inhale the meds by accident)... now I just have to make sure I don't stab inside of his mouth with the syringe! 

It's dread doing it because I suck at it, but hopefully he won't be on this stuff much longer


----------



## Guest

I just bought harrison's birdie bread... have never tried it before. Eager it test it out... should be delivered sometime tomorrow.

EDIT: I just realized he has to take milk thistle for at least a whole yr or several more months for his liver issue. I'm not gonna syringe him for the long, that's crazy! I will have to put it into his water or something. I think they said I could also just squirt it onto his food soon rather than syringe.


----------



## dianne

So glad he's gaining weight. You've come a long way with him!


----------



## nassrah

Juliet, I am not an american resident,but it seems to me it is common sense to go with what dianne is suggesting. Looks like the County Animal Care agency is not interested in animal care at all,they will try to dismiss anything that could force them to do some work . It is the same everywhere in the world. ! So whenever you have the time,why not trying it I dont know,only a suggestion.In any case, for Rascal ,please dont give up going to Court ,you have got a lot of evidence against her,you are to win . Justice must be served and she has to pay all the Vet bills and never be allowed to care for animals ever again . I am very happy for the two of you,glad to know that Rascal is putting weight on , getting better and better .Keeping both of you in my mind and prayers X x Teresa


----------



## karendh

I am most successful in getting Birdie to have her meds is by giving her a few grains of boiled rice which I halve and then leave the rice to soak for a while in the meds. She eats it up in seconds!!


----------



## Jaguar

You might want to try posting your case somewhere like Reddit, there might be someone on there who's familiar with your state laws, can direct you to who to contact, and so on


----------



## Guest

Thanks for all the suggestions. I promise I definitely will NOT give up on pursuing that woman in court. I'm having a MAJOR problem now unfortunately (work related) in regards to my forthcoming business trip. I am totally swamped at home trying to fix it... if it's even fixable... might have to start the court case when I return from Boston and am much less stressed.

karendh, thanks for the rice tip. That's a good idea!

I'm actually getting the hang of giving him his meds via the syringe. I know he's getting meds inside his mouth because he's shaking is head, doesn't like the taste of the meds!

Here a pic... I move the tank next to my couch at night where I work on my laptop as Rascal watches TV eating popcorn, he loves (plain unsalted - oil free) popcorn  .. the other pic is where he spends all day in my office causing trouble as usual  He's turned my printer into a warzone... and he looks rather guilty in that pic if you ask me.

He is FILTHY sticky meds have coated his feathers and they are all gooey n' gross (you can see in second pic, that's not water... that's sticky goo from the meds!)... cannot wait for those feathers to fall out. Noway that'll come off with a bath, it's stuck like gum in hair!


----------



## nassrah

Isnt he the sweetest little birdie ever? I am so pleased to see how much he has improved - Thanks for taking the time to keep us updated , Juliet and hope you sort your work problem out .b He is a little miracle , brave little boy ! X x Teresa


----------



## Guest

Sweet indeed, but filthy covered in gunky sticky meds (it has literally stuck to his feathers like gum!). He has this strong smell now... smells like a chicken! I think it smells really good though (love the way tiels smell), but he could definitely use a bath. I wish I smelled as good as he does considering he hasn't had a bath in weeks!  Poor thing has tried to pick the gunky stuff out of his feathers but doesn't succeed, the matted gunk on his neck sometimes freaks him out when he's preening.

I am almost afraid to post in this thread anymore... this thread has had almost 13,000 views! That's crazy


----------



## nassrah

I believe it has been viewed and commented on for so many people due to everybody being really concerned about Rascal s health , you ,his recovery,so this shows you that there is a lot of good people around.I am pretty sure all these comments and positive thoughts,advice and hopes for Rascal s recovery , together with your dedication and the Vet care ,were responsible for bringing him back,hopefully better and better . Lots of love X x Teresa


----------



## Guest

Thanks, everyone at this forum was of HUGE help


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## sunnysmom

I'm so glad Rascal is doing better and gaining weight! Wonderful news.


----------



## karendh

How is Rascal doing today? Still thinking of you.


----------



## Kiwi

That medicine sounds awful, all stuck to his feathers. 

Poor little guy, at least he is home with you and doing much better now.

LOL the printer. xD

For that lady.... will they not even do a bailment on the case??


----------



## Guest

Lil' Rascal is doing good ... but definitely still NOT himself yet though.

I think he's done gaining weight because I just weighed him at he's 84 grams (but the day's not over weight so he might get up to 85 grams)... his normal weight before the injury was 89 grams.

I bought this fantastic little table (here's a pic) and he's been spending a large portion of the day on it right next to me as I work on the laptop all day. He was pigging out on popcorn


----------



## dianne

He looks very good. I hope he continues to recover well.


----------



## Guest

He is doing something which is never used to do before though, it is so cute I could just die.

He keeps going right under my chin and just sits directly under my chin begging to be scritched. He's always be super cuddly, but now it's almost as if he just wants to be comforted. He will be sitting on my shoulder preening but then all of a sudden will go sit directly under my chin and then I give him scritches. He quickly learned he would be spoiled sitting in that spot lol

Too freakin cute how he knows if he sits in that very spot he will get cuddled


----------



## Kiwi

Now Rascal has his own little work desk, so cute!

Don't eat the green popcorn. :rofl:

Kiwi turned into a super cuddle after the accident too. She would even let me towel and turn her over without protest, which had never happened before.


----------



## Guest

Yeah it's weird how they can become super cuddly after an injury, but it's soooo cute! He totally runs into that same spot under my chin now to get cuddled... and he never did that before.

I was worried he would poop in my popcorn! He jumped right into my popcorn bowl and I ended up eating the popcorn with him walking around inside the bowl LOL. 

The little piggy is back up to 86 grams now. 

Sad I have to leave town for 4 days next Tues =(


----------



## Guest

I'm very eager to see when his flight feathers will start growing back. My guess at least 4+ months, since all flight feathers were literally ripped out by the roots... so it will take a lot longer? Sorry if I asked this already, don't remember.

It's sad, he's totally handicap right now (I have to be super careful with him because he still thinks he can fly) and they also said they did not shave his legs, so I don't know why the feathers on his legs are gone. Weird.

Only Rascal knows the truth but he ain't tallking


----------



## CaliTiels

Ya, that's the unfortunate part. I wish I could talk to mine. I've always been curious of Beaker's previous home


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## ParrotletsRock

I think if pulled out they should grow right back... clipped feathers need to wait for a moult, my green cheek loves to cuddle under my chin!


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## Guest

I was wrong, Rascal is still gaining weight because this morning he is 84 grams! This is the heaviest he has been in the morning since being injured.

He is also bobbing is head like crazy now when I signal him (as well as doing the kissy face thing where I kiss his beak repeatedly and he kisses right back) to whereas a couple days ago NO response no head bobbing, so he is coming back to life!

So nice how I get to spend the entire day with him since I'm working like a horse at home preparing for my trip. I love spending time with my bird


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## Guest

ParrotletsRock said:


> I think if pulled out they should grow right back... clipped feathers need to wait for a moult, my green cheek loves to cuddle under my chin!


Hopefully you are right, I cannot wait for him to at least be able to glide safely to the ground.


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## ParrotletsRock

That's if the follicles are not damaged.. If so they may grow back weird or not grow back at all.


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## Guest

ParrotletsRock said:


> That's if the follicles are not damaged.. If so they may grow back weird or not grow back at all.


OMG, I HOPE that won't be the case! That would be horrible if his flight feathers won't grow back.


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## karendh

As long as the follicles are still there the feathers will grow back.


----------



## Jaguar

His bald legs are killing me :lol: He looks good!


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## dianne

Is there any way you could take him on the trip with you?


----------



## Mayra

I'm am so happy Rascal's gotten so much better and is still improving. Anyone who says that birds aren't resilient should read up on Rascal's story. I hope his flight wings come in alright; every bird deserves to fly.


----------



## Guest

I wish I could take him on the trip but it's not possible and it wouldn't be wise. He's still recovering and it would be way too stressful for him. Plus, I'll be in hectic meetings all day since it's a business trip =(

I'll only be gone 4 days so not too long thank goodness 

I guess I'll know more about his wings in a month... hopefully I'll see something regrowing! I could not imagine him never being able to fly again... he's been fully flight pretty much his entire life and flys after me constantly.... and for exercise. I think his feathers will grow back just fine though... I hope.

I just baked him some honey sticks for when I'm gone ... mixed in harrison's bird bread into it.... smells good =)


----------



## CaliTiels

Juliet, I know this goes against what you believe, but if it comes to this, if Lil' Rascal's wings don't grow back correctly, you _may_ want to consider lightly trimming down. It's risky, but it might work. It did for me.

When I adopted Beaker, his wings were crooked. His old owners clipped him before he had a chance to properly fledge. So I took him in to have his wings trimmed down gradually. After about 6 months, I had them do a heavy trim. Then, his feathers grew in perfectly straight.  After a few months of flight strengthening and training, he is now a very skilled flier. He does recall, can desend from high up and fly to places I direct him to


----------



## Kiwi

I hope his wings grow back fine. Was the vet able to tell if there was any damage to the follicles or was there too much inflammation? Hoping for the best for Rascal, glad he's eating well and gaining weight. 

@CaliTiels, that sounds like a good idea if that happens. Is there any site that shows the steps that can be done for this? I'm kind of curious now that there can be a way to reverse the process. What are the risks? o,o


----------



## Guest

The vet never said anything about his wings growing back, she was a very unfriendly vet and I haven't heard from her nor spoken to her since over a week ago. She hasn't even checked in to see how he's doing... she took me to the cleaners (big time) and got her $$$ 

I don't even know how long he has to stay on these meds. I will find all this out on Mon. I know the milk thistle he will have to take for a long time but I don't want him taking so many antibiotics for extended periods, that is def not good... so hopefully not much longer.

I think he's going to have his liver retested in about a week or two.


----------



## Guest

OMG!!! I just baked Li' Rascal some honey sticks and it smells sooooo good 

It smells like coconut-nutty pound cake. Holy smokes it smells really really good! 

I never tried Harrison's bird bread mix before... I just mixed it in with his regular bird seed mix and a tiny bit of coconut and shoved it into the oven... came out awesome.

He will be getting these treats when I have to go out of town next week. I will make them put it inside his incubator so he will at least have his toy and tasty snack!

Here's a pic... I can't stop smelling it lol


----------



## Vickitiel

Juliet said:


> He keeps going right under my chin and just sits directly under my chin begging to be scritched.


That's soo adorable. Coco used to do this when he was 9 weeks old, but very rarely now that he's over a year old. I've always thought it to be a cuddly baby thing. 

Rascal with that big bowl of popcorn cracked me up haha. He's looking much healthier. 

Yum! That baking looks delicious. Rascal's in for a treat!


----------



## CaliTiels

Mmm... looks delicious.

No real steps, just slow and steady. I was a bird noob when I did that, so I just went with my gut instincts


----------



## TamaMoo

Juliet said:


> OMG!!! I just baked Li' Rascal some honey sticks and it smells sooooo good
> 
> It smells like coconut-nutty pound cake. Holy smokes it smells really really good!
> 
> I never tried Harrison's bird bread mix before... I just mixed it in with his regular bird seed mix and a tiny bit of coconut and shoved it into the oven... came out awesome.
> 
> He will be getting these treats when I have to go out of town next week. I will make them put it inside his incubator so he will at least have his toy and tasty snack!
> 
> Here's a pic... I can't stop smelling it lol


Maybe it is because they are all golden and gorgeous, or because I am dieting and treat deprived, and they look like zucchini bread, but those look amazing!


----------



## Guest

Today Rascal actually "lost" 2 grams because at the end of the day he was usually 86 grams during the past couple of days and now only 84 grams, weird... I didn't see him eat as much today. I guess weight fluctuates in birds same as humans.

I'm going to give him one of those honey sticks right now curious if he'll attack it.

You guys are lucky you cannot smell those honey sticks... then you'd really be drooling lol 

EDIT: I just gave him one of those freshly baked treats and he immediately jumped on it and is attacking it =)


----------



## Guest

LOL, my tiel loved those freshly baked honey sticks so much that he just gained 2 grams eating it! He was 84 grams and after attacking the honey sticks he's now back up to 86 grams, go figure


----------



## dianne

That's fantastic .


----------



## Kiwi

It looks so good! I've only made my own birdie bread before. It looked a little like that, but the birdie bread I made smelled like carrots.

It's all warm out of the oven, I would attack it too. Rascal is like, "You just made it?! Mine!!"


@CaliTiels, good instincts!


----------



## tielbob

Jaguar said:


> His bald legs are killing me :lol: He looks good!


haha He reminds me of those water birds that go fishing in shallow ponds with their long bare legs that look like stilts.:rofl:
But all laughing at him aside (awwwwwww) I'm so happy he's doing well:clap:
Rascal, we're laughing _with_ you, not _at_ you.


----------



## Guest

tielbob said:


> haha He reminds me of those water birds that go fishing in shallow ponds with their long bare legs that look like stilts.:rofl:
> But all laughing at him aside (awwwwwww) I'm so happy he's doing well:clap:
> Rascal, we're laughing _with_ you, not _at_ you.


LOL, he does look funny. You can only see it though when he stands up high on his tippy toes. The right leg is more bare than the left 

Giving him meds is much easier now  I've found it's much easier when I don't use a towel at all... because he's able to slide all over the place under the towel and I'm always worried I'm going to squeeze him too hard. I'm able to get a more solid grip on him without using a towel.

He's really ticked off at the syringe and tries to bite it... that's when I push the syringe and the meds go into his mouth as he bites tip of the syringe. I've given up on holding his head still... I just squirt the meds when he bites the syringe so in a sense he's medicating himself and doesn't even realize it lol


----------



## Amz

Juliet, it's really great to see how much more cheerful you seem now.  I'm so happy everything is going well for you two.

As for birdie bread, I'm currently using some that I got at a bird expo a few hours away - it has 19 different fruits and veggies in it!! Rocko loves it too.


----------



## Guest

Amz said:


> Juliet, it's really great to see how much more cheerful you seem now.  I'm so happy everything is going well for you two.
> 
> As for birdie bread, I'm currently using some that I got at a bird expo a few hours away - it has 19 different fruits and veggies in it!! Rocko loves it too.


Wow, "19 different fruits and veggies" that sounds REALLY good!! 

Tomorrow around 5pm Lil' Rascal has to be dropped off at the vet to stay in the incubator for 4 days while I'm out of town. I wish I didn't have to leave him, it is so much fun spending the day with him. I LOVE spending time with my bird, he's the best and I prefer his company to anyone else... I think he feels the same cuz he ALWAYS has to and wants to be with me lol


----------



## CaliTiels

It's not that vet again is it? It's the different one hopefully?


----------



## Guest

CaliTiels said:


> It's not that vet again is it? It's the different one hopefully?


Ya, different one  .. even though that mean bird vet is only at that clinic twice a week... the nice tech there was mostly medicating/handling him.

He must stay inside incubator at the vet still... soon he'll be out of the fish tank... less than 3 weeks. Technically he only sleeps inside the tank... he's NEVER in the fish tank during the day... lives on my shoulder and on his little work desk I bought him 

He's gotten really used to being in the tank in the kitchen though. It works great!


----------



## nassrah

Hi Juliet So good to read about Rascal and you . It is great to see him so happy getting healthier . I hope your business trip goes well and that you will soon be reunited with little Rascal . Please carry on sending us updates and pics . See you soon! Lots of cuddles and kisses for Rascal  X x


----------



## Guest

nassrah said:


> Hi Juliet So good to read about Rascal and you . It is great to see him so happy getting healthier . I hope your business trip goes well and that you will soon be reunited with little Rascal . Please carry on sending us updates and pics . See you soon! Lots of cuddles and kisses for Rascal  X x


Thanks so much


----------



## Guest

Sorry to dig this thread back up , wasn't sure i f I should start new one or if people are sick of this one... but I just got back home from being in Boston for 5 days and picled up Lil' Rascal from the vet... and WOW!!!!... was I surprised!

The first thing I immediately noticed was that his flight feathers are already growing back!! They grew a TON in just 5 days, that's crazy 

Here's a couple pics... ALL his flight feathers as you recall were ripped out by the roots leaving 2 big bloody open wounds... this bird is indestructible LOL

He'll be a fully flighted bird again in another week! Look at the pics... see the flight feathers growing? Wow... where on earth did they suddenly come from


----------



## Tequilagirl

That's fantastic! I bet you're both looking forward to it


----------



## Kiwi

WOOT! Go Rascal, he's such a trooper pulling through that. He'll be good as new in no time!


----------



## Guest

Yes, I'm just amazed. I totally was NOT expecting his flight feathers to grow back this fast... I thought I'd have to wait at least 5+ months!!!

They also took him off the baytril and metacam meds... so now he only has to take milk thistle for an entire year. So I still have to syringe him twice a day... what do you guys recommend... put it into his food? But then he won't really get all the milk thistle he needs. They told me not to put it into his water. Look like I'm forced to syringe him twice a day for a year, yikes!

I also don't see the point of making him stay in the fish tank anymore? I feel like he'd be fine in his bird cage if I have to leave the house for an hour? I'm still super super careful with him still though so that he doesn't try to fly and injure himself.


----------



## Guest

They also aren't retesting his liver until after the holidays. His AST (liver) was 1500+ extremely high but went down to 1000 and now I don't know what it is but it needs to be between 160-383.


... but he REALLY needs a bath... he is stinky (in a good way lol) but desperately needs a bath!! I won't give him one yet thought.


----------



## karendh

Try the few grains of boiled rice, the rice soaks up the meds and Birdie always eats every grain. So happy that Rascal is looking so good.


----------



## Guest

karendh said:


> Try the few grains of boiled rice, the rice soaks up the meds and Birdie always eats every grain. So happy that Rascal is looking so good.


Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Thanks! I will def try that. =)


----------



## dianne

Make sure he will eat the rice first. My tiels won't eat brown rice, I tried a few days ago.
I'm so glad he is doing so well, and he looks fantastic.


----------



## Guest

OMG!! OMG!!! OMG!!!

Rascal just took off flying from my finger (by accident) and flew back and forth in my house... he's already FULLY flighted!!! What on earth??? How did this happen so insanely fast??? He was literally dropping like a rock just 5 short days ago... ALL his flight feathers were GONE and ripped out by the roots.... yet in 5 days he managed to regrow his flight feathers???

He is fully flightyed!! LOL. I am in total disbelief it's almost a little creepy LOL

I have to be extremely careful with him... I cannot let him fly around for at least another week or two... it's still too early, yikes!

He is a super bird that is for sure, I cannot believe he is already fully flighted I was not excepting this!!! :excited:

... at least we now know he didn't break anything or nothing healed improperly to prevent flying!


----------



## Guest

Ok, well my plan to try to not allow him to fly is not working at all lol. He's flying as his normal self.. as if nothing ever happened. He just flew off my shoulder straight up onto the window self on my vaulted ceiling where he usually goes... stayed there for 2 minutes then flew back onto my shoulder and has been preening nonstop.

I have my old bird back now, awesome 

... sure his liver will be ok too when retested in 2 weeks. Now I get to focus on going after that nasty woman!

You can tell by the look on his face he's thinking "what are you looking at, I'm a super hero bird preening my magical feathers I just spouted!" lol


----------



## karendh

I use white Basmalti rice, it absorbs meds better than whole grain. I just use ten grains, cut into bird sized bites so that Birdie doesn't get it all over her beak.


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## Guest

karendh said:


> I use white Basmalti rice, it absorbs meds better than whole grain. I just use ten grains, cut into bird sized bites so that Birdie doesn't get it all over her beak.


Thanks, I'll try that tonight and he normally does like to eat rice


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## steveshanks

He looks fantastic, I'm so happy to see him looking so well after all he'd been through ;o)


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## Guest

This fish tank is so cool... I was able to boil spaghetti with him in the kitchen with me 

This has completely solved the problem of him screaming after me when I used to have to lock him in the room when cooking 

I've also figured out solution as to where I should keep him next time I have to leave town. I'm going to leave him at the nice vet's clinic but I'm going to bring my own desk lamp which I'm going to demand ALWAYS stays on even at night because if he has night fright again and there's nobody around to calm him down and he thrashes and thrashes he's going to seriously injure himself again this disaster is going to happen all over again. But, with a desk lamp and only covering half the cage... he will totally know it's sleepy time but won't be dark enough for him to freak out! A nightlight is not light enough, must be lighter.

I will also put a note next to his cage that clearly says "Light must be on at all times!!".... just incase one of the employees there doesn't know the situation.

I feel better if he's at the vets (in that big room with all the employees) rather than someone taking him to their house... at least he has lots of exciting things to see during the day at the vets.


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## eduardo

I am relieved to hear good news about Rascal! He is one tough cookie


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## nassrah

I was looking forward to reading your update on Rascal . It is a Christmas miracle -no doubts about it ! I am extremely happy ! He looks amazing ! Well done Juliet ! Well done Rascal ! Lots of love. Teresa X x x


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## Jaguar

Oh, great news... so glad he can fly again! I'm still waiting for that day to come for Phoenix. Try not to worry about him too much while you're away


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## Kiwi

Rascal all that wonderful, delicious food your mommy has been feeding you grew your feathers sooo big! That's awesome! :3

Kiwi would eat the herbal supplement when it was soaked into bread. Now she will just eat it from the dropper. 

I'm going to do the same thing with Kiwi since I have to go down to Texas next month. I decided with everything that happened to her she would stay with a vet too. Especially after Rascal's experience! >.<


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## tielbob

nassrah said:


> I was looking forward to reading your update on Rascal . It is a Christmas miracle -no doubts about it ! I am extremely happy ! He looks amazing ! Well done Juliet ! Well done Rascal ! Lots of love. Teresa X x x


Same for me (ditto!)


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## Guest

Sooooo weird, I just found out that the vet (the impolite very unfriendly vet) told my boss my bird would not be able to fly for an entire year!!! My boss told me he didn't tell me this earlier because he didn't want to upset me more than I already was.

That mean vet can kiss my you know what... Lil' Rascal proved her wrong by regrowing his feathers in just 5 days LOL 

He was literally dropping like a rock... straight down - NO gliding to the floor safely whatsoever before I went to Boston - I was gone for 5 days and now my bird is fully flighted. I just cannot get over how crazy that is!!!! He's flying around as if nothing ever happened!

Maybe since his flight feathers were ripped out by the roots instead of just cut... mother nature regrew them much faster... or he's just a super bird lol

Pretty cool


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## Guest

Kiwi said:


> Rascal all that wonderful, delicious food your mommy has been feeding you grew your feathers sooo big! That's awesome! :3
> 
> Kiwi would eat the herbal supplement when it was soaked into bread. Now she will just eat it from the dropper.
> 
> I'm going to do the same thing with Kiwi since I have to go down to Texas next month. I decided with everything that happened to her she would stay with a vet too. Especially after Rascal's experience! >.<


That is a good idea


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## Amz

You'd be surprised how well cockatiels can fly even when clipped or when their flights are short/impaired. I keep Rocko fully clipped, but even when clipped, he can fly just as well as he could with his flights. 

Very happy for you both


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## ParrotletsRock

Juliet said:


> Sooooo weird, I just found out that the vet (the impolite very unfriendly vet) told my boss my bird would not be able to fly for an entire year!!! My boss told me he didn't tell me this earlier because he didn't want to upset me more than I already was.
> 
> That mean vet can kiss my you know what... Lil' Rascal proved her wrong by regrowing his feathers in just 5 days LOL
> 
> He was literally dropping like a rock... straight down - NO gliding to the floor safely whatsoever before I went to Boston - I was gone for 5 days and now my bird is fully flighted. I just cannot get over how crazy that is!!!! He's flying around as if nothing ever happened!
> 
> Maybe since his flight feathers were ripped out by the roots instead of just cut... mother nature regrew them much faster... or he's just a super bird lol
> 
> Pretty cool


Read back, I told you that the flights should grow back quickly if the follicles were not damaged.. Clipped feathers need to wait for a molt.


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## TamaMoo

Yay Rascal! What happened to him breaks my heart, but the story of his recovery amazes me.


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## slugabed

Rascal looks great! Better than my own bird, with her tattered tail feathers!


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## Guest

slugabed said:


> Rascal looks great! Better than my own bird, with her tattered tail feathers!


He doesn't look better in these pictures LOL

I guess he knew he desperately needed a bath because he flew onto the shower floor as I was showering. I picked him up and he bathed for a good solid 10 minutes, he REALLY got into it! They look so funny when wet... like little drowned rats... but cute rats 

They look so miserable cold and wet... I tried to dry him off with the hair dryer on medium warm setting... but it didn't really get him drier.

EDIT: Oh wow, I see that the bath really helped get rid of a ton of the sticky gooey meds that were stuck in his feathers, awesome!


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## slugabed

Most meds are water soluble for delivery effectiveness, so they usually clean off quite well. He still looks cute though. So glad he's doing so well now!


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## steveshanks

He does look adorable though ;o)


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## Guest

So cool! 

That bath he took got rid of 100% of that sticky gunk he had stuck all over his face, chest and body.

Now he has his beautiful soft n' silky feathers back. He's looking so pretty now... was so gross and sticky before lol


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## estypest

Aww bless, looking fab! And (sorry cockatiels everywhere) I find them so funny after a bath/wash, they look so sorry for themselves and more like a small dinosaur


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## TamaMoo

I love soggy birdie pics. They always look so adorable.


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## Horsebackrider

I just noticed this thread... I am really sorry about what happened, that is the worst thing that could ever happen... Rascal looks so much better, he is the bravest little warrior and survivor! Congratulate him for me, he made it through all of that pain. :clap:
Best luck and wishes from me and the fids!


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## Guest

Horsebackrider said:


> I just noticed this thread... I am really sorry about what happened, that is the worst thing ever! Rascal looks so much better, he is the bravest little warrior and survivor! Congratulate him for me, he made it through all of that pain. :clap:
> Best luck and wishes from me and the fids!


Thanks. Rascal is a fighter... tiels are tiny but tough! =)

I just noticed your username... I'm an equestrian myself 

Used to compete in English Jumpers. I love horses.


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## Jaguar

I wish Phoenix looked half as good as Rascal :rofl: might need you to shave his legs again for me...


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## yokobirdie

Awww! Rascal looks great!


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## Guest

I'm happy to report Lil' Rascal is 100% back to his normal self.

I just made a big bowl of unsalted oil free popcorn and he won't let me have any! He attacks my hand (bites hard!) every time I reach into the bowl for popcorn LOL

He doesn't know it, but I took pictures as evidence hehe.

The picture of him in my hand is my favorite pic ever, I wish it was clearer!


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## RowdyTiel

I am SO so happy and relieved Rascal is doing well once again! Such a scary experience you both had to go through.


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## nassrah

These pop corn pics are the sweetest ever Juliet - Rascal looks amazing ! I am happy for you both being able to celebrate Christmas together .What a wonderful season it will be - never to be forgotten. Hugs and kisses from Brazil Trresa


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## CaliTiels

I like the last picture very much. Lil' Rascal looks great


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## Guest

Jaguar said:


> I wish Phoenix looked half as good as Rascal :rofl: might need you to shave his legs again for me...


Phoenix is a cool name and has such pretty/unique coloring. Phoenix is beautiful 

Rascal's thighs are still slightly bald lol... but feathers are growing back in quite fast. 

I recall a lutino pied tiel I had as a kid, was such a nice bird... but he didn't have a tail at all (just a short stub) for some bizarre reason lol. It simply refused to ever grow or just broke off. I will have to upload pic.


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## Guest

CaliTiels said:


> I like the last picture very much. Lil' Rascal looks great


Ya, I love that pic too. It is my fav pic. I will have to try to re-shoot that photo and hopefully it'll come in clearer so I can frame it 

It's tough to take pics of tiels cuz they always move... and my camera is lousy!



nassrah,

Thanks.... unfortunately he barely let me eat any of the popcorn. I ended up having to make my own bowl as he claimed the other one


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## yokobirdie

Yay! Rascal is back to normal! I'm so happy that scary experience is over!


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## Kiwi

I'm so glad that Rascal is 100% back to normal. The leg feathers do grow back really fast! Kiwi was still in a splint when her leg feathers started to grow back and the were fully in by the time she got it off! xD

I loved the third picture. I just kept watching his face go further and further into the popcorn bowl. :lol:

Hope you guys have a happy Thanksgiving and that Rascal gets lots of green beans and other birdie delights.


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## Amz

Such wonderful news. What an amazing 63 page story!  At the beginning of all this, I felt that Rascal most likely wasn't going to make it - not because he was too weak to do it, but because it was such a terrible injury. I couldn't realistically see any tiel making it out of that horror. And the kidney and liver problems sure didn't help. I felt so helpless and so upset for you, Juliet. I can't imagine what you've been through these past few weeks. But boy did he prove me wrong! And I'm so glad he did. What a strong little guy. A real fighter. He deserves every bit of that popcorn, and every second of every day for the life he fought so hard to live. If we end up doing the cockatiel of the year thing people have been discussing in the chit-chat thread, I nominate Rascal!


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## CaliTiels

Amz said:


> If we end up doing the cockatiel of the year thing people have been discussing in the chit-chat thread, I nominate Rascal!


I second that


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## steveshanks

I third it, and we should create a medal like a peace time Dickin medal, Steve


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## Nimra

I wasn't able to check this post before so i just checked it now. Rascal looks adorable in his pics and i am glad he is 100% fine again!


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## TashaSha

I'm so glad to hear that he's good now. Was not on the forum for quite some time becouse of my exams. First thing I checked was what happend with Rascal. All the best, he is adorable. :*


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## nassrah

I also vote for Rascal Cockatiel of the year ! Juliet Birdie Mom of the year ! Congrats ! Well done ! X x


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## moonchild

He looks GREAT! It's like nothing ever happened. 
I hope you're still planning on taking legal action against that horrid woman.


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## Guest

Thanks guys... and his leg feathers have also grown back, just noticed today he no longer looks like he shaved his legs 

I plan to go to the courthouse next week to file my case against that witch. Would have done it sooner, but I've been sick with a nasty cold/flu this past week, also spent Thanksgiving alone (well not alone, with Rascal ) because I was too sick to leave the house and didn't want to infect anyone!

I still have dilemma though. I have to leave town on business again in 2 weeks for 7 days (only 2 trips like this left for a long time thank goodness). Do you think it would be "cruel" to have him kept in an incubator for those 7 days at the vet... I think 7 days is way too long for him to be kept in small incubator? I was going to bring my 17 inch travel cage for him to stay in the nice vet's big waiting room in the clinic (which is right next to where the employees are working and he could also "people watch"), but am worried what if he escapes from the cage (or some kid opens his cage door) and he flys out the door or whatnot? That would be disaster.

Would you bring your own 17 inch cage for him to stay in the waiting room or would you let them keep him inside a incubator? He MUST have my little desk lamp on the entire night to prevent nightfright with only half the cage covered with towel.... a nightlight is not light enough.

I need to go to that vet next week to figure out where is best to keep him.


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## northernfog

Wow. so happy this turned out nicely!  give lil' Rascal kisses from me!


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## Kiwi

Kiwi would stay in the incubator for a few hours when I would drop her off for her vet appointment. They would keep her in there until I was done for the day with my college classes. They just made sure to give her a water dish and one time a little bit of IV fluid since she wasn't drinking a lot. You just have to worry about them getting overheated in there I would think. Otherwise it is a very nice area to be for a bird, no cold drafts.


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## karendh

I know you have concerns about Rascal being in an incubator for 7 days but at least he will be safe, if a little bored. You will have no idea what sort of people will be in the waiting room and there will be no proper supervision for him because reception will be preoccupied and not keep an eye on him the whole time. Safe but put-out I would settle for. 

Hope you are feeling a lot better now.


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## Guest

So it seems I should have keep in the incubator for 7 days while I'm gone? It's the fact that he'd be stuck in there for 7 looooooong days. I was thinking that is far too long.... are you sure that's not too long?

... but I guess it's better to be safe than sorry.

I was going to keep him in the 17 inch travel cage at the nice vet's clinic... but after reading your responses regarding the issue, I think I've changed my mind.

I am going to to to the vet's clinic tomorrow to talk to them so I can see where exactly they were going to place his 17inch travel cage... but it looks like I'll be having in the incubator instead.

Another problem: The nice vet's clinic is always EXTREMELY FREEZING cold!! I don't know what is wrong with those people but they have the AC cranked down so cold (clinic is in Florida) I couldn't even stand being there, I was literally shaking form the cold! Are tiels bothered by such cold?

I LOVE cold, but it is CRAZY cold in that clinic!


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## karendh

I certainly think it depends on where the clinic put the cage in the waiting room. If it's behind the reception desk and away from the public, that would work.

Regarding the cold, don't forget, they are wearing a feather duvet! Draught is more of a problem and that tends me to switch back to the incubator where there is more protection.


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## Guest

karendh said:


> I certainly think it depends on where the clinic put the cage in the waiting room. If it's behind the reception desk and away from the public, that would work.
> 
> Regarding the cold, don't forget, they are wearing a feather duvet! Draught is more of a problem and that tends me to switch back to the incubator where there is more protection.


I'll take a picture tomorrow and will post it here so you guys can see where he'd be if kept in his travel cage. I cannot make up my mind, but now suddenly I am leaning more towards incubator even though he'll be bored out of his mind.


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## nassrah

I have always read that you should be very careful with your cockatiels lungs . It is not only a matter of avoiding cold drafts which is something you must do at all times all year round , but looking after their respiratory system as a whole . OK,you are in Florida I know its not that bad there in the winter,but just remember the huge struggle Rascal s system has just overcome.He is still in the recovery period,and keeping him in a cold environment ,I dont know,i would think its putting a bit of more stress on him again,uneccessarily . I agree with its better to be safe than sorry , although the best personadvise you,Juliet will be the Vet , of course . Hugs and kisses from sunny Brazil X x Teresa


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## Guest

nassrah said:


> I have always read that you should be very careful with your cockatiels lungs . It is not only a matter of avoiding cold drafts which is something you must do at all times all year round , but looking after their respiratory system as a whole . OK,you are in Florida I know its not that bad there in the winter,but just remember the huge struggle Rascal s system has just overcome.He is still in the recovery period,and keeping him in a cold environment ,I dont know,i would think its putting a bit of more stress on him again,uneccessarily . I agree with its better to be safe than sorry , although the best personadvise you,Juliet will be the Vet , of course . Hugs and kisses from sunny Brazil X x Teresa


That's true, good point. I leave for my 7 day trip in 2 weeks. I'm going to have him kept in the incubator for this trip just to be safe. For future trips I will investigate on how to keep him in the cage at the vets instead.... but for now I think the incubator is the safest route.

Plus, his liver still needs to be retested... once that's cleared it will all be better  

Poor Lil' Rascal... back into the incubator prison you go hehe. As long as he has stuff to eat in there and toys... it'll be ok... even though he hates it in there lol


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