# Obsessive vinegar & cleaning questions



## ocd_birdlover (Sep 18, 2014)

Hello,

I recently joined this site to ask a few questions that are pretty much OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) style worrying. In the past I haven't been quite as obsessive about cleaning my cockatiels area but recently that has changed.

I have several OCD style questions that can be found online, but certain details don't have direct answers (that I've seen). So hopefully I can relieve my worrying and move on to finding something else to worry about! 

Also hoping this is the correct area to post, I saw the housing & toys section but this seemed better suited.

Birds: Cockatiels
Previous cleaning type: Soap/water (Dawn) & pressure washer
New proposed cleaning type: 1:1 vinegar/water solution & pressure washer

Questions below:


How bad are the initial vinegar fumes for birds? I know not to do it while the bird is in the cage, however would it be ok to do it in the other room? Say 15-30 feet away? Or closer (4-7ft) with ventilation and a fan on (so they can watch (from another cage) )?

Also how bad would sitting vinegar be? IE vinegar sitting out in bowl to help with odors in the house? Would it hurt bird to get within 4ft or so of it?

Will it harm the birds in any way to not wipe vinegar solution off the cage, or cleaned items? (they will be allowed to fully dry)

Will the leftover smell of vinegar harm the birds in any way? Not the initial fumes while applied, but the smell that seems to linger afterward.

Would it be safe to dampen the smell of vinegar by adding lemons, limes, or oranges (skin and or juice) to the solution and letting it sit (marinate) for a long period of time. I've read this is ok, but I just want to make sure. 

Is it safe to use any essential oils in the vinegar to make it smell a bit better? I have read that some are ok around birds, but I need to do more research on this. Are there any other ways to make vinegar smell a bit better that are safe.

What is the best cleaning tool for wiping down the cages? Dish cloth (bird use only), sponge, or scrub brush of some kind? (not sure on which are safe, the fiber types of the brush, etc)

Would it be safe to use a coffee grinder on food pellets? So the dust/smaller pellets be sprinkled into their seed, to help the food conversion process? Mainly asking about chances of PTFE in the grinder, would a short 30 sec use be an issue if it did contain ptfe? (Would be brand new from the store, never used for coffee) Or instead a blender. I have read about others using one, but again... OCD

Would it be safe to make a cardboard playhouse out of shipping boxes? How would I go about wiping them down first? Just a very light 50/50 vinegar solution and let dry completely?

Thank you for your time, and great forum too!


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

Many Cockatiel owners obsess over their bird. Through this you learn how to take better care of them that way. I totally obsess over nutritional issues since there are so many conflicting opinions on it and I want my 'tiel's nutrition to be perfect. :lol:

Be careful with vinegar. If vinegar is heated it releases deadly C02 gas that will kill your birds. So only use cool or lukewarm water when you mix it with vinegar. People have had birds die when they run vinegar through other machines like dishwashers and coffee machines because of the machines heating up. To be safe I would keep them away from the area. You're not supposed to have them in or around the cage when you're cleaning with vinegar. I would move them too the other room, birds love coming over and seeing what you're doing while you're cleaning. Since you have a pressure washer, most I know create heat and that could also release C02. In that case they need to be in the other room. :S
You could turn a fan on if it's one they couldn't get caught in it and isn't a ceiling fan.
http://www.parrotforums.com/general-parrot-information/29173-question-about-cleaning-vinegar.html
http://www.tailfeathersnetwork.com/community/showthread.php/77591-How-to-clean-a-cockatiel-s-cage

I don't think it would hurt them if it's allowed to fully dry, but the smell would be more irritating to you than them since 'tiels don't have a good sense of smell. It wouldn't hurt them though. It just smells so strongly of vinegar if it's not rinsed off with water. I would still rinse them off anyway just to make sure you're fully taking off what you tried to wash off with vinegar.

You can add lemons, oranges, and limes to vinegar that's perfectly safe. It may also make the cage smell better than just vinegar.

I would not use essential oils of any kind. They're not very good for bird lungs much less if they are ingested if you don't rinse the bars or perches off. It could also leave a strong smell on them that could possibly hurt their sensitive lungs.
http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=26833

Treat a strong smelling vinegar bowl as if it's bleach. It shouldn't be that close to the 'tiels because of the fumes. You can try other things like rosemary to make things smell better. 

These are good for those stubborn droppings that just wont come off. The wire brush to me is the best.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=5059+5900+25946&pcatid=25946
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=5059+5900+5942&pcatid=5942

Fumes are released if a product is overheated. I use a coffee grinder/spice grinder for my birdie bread recipes. This is the one I use, I liked the stainless steel blade. You're only supposed to press down on the button for a few seconds at a time or else it does overheat. Read the instructions on how long to push the buttons down. 
http://www.amazon.com/KRUPS-Electric-Coffee-Grinder-Stainless/dp/B00004SPEU
If it's brand new you wont have to worry about allergies. A good way to clean your coffee grinder out is take a piece of bread and wipe the inside down.

I'm not entirely sure how to disinfect cardboard? I would want to disinfect it to, who knows where it's been right? I would say sunlight or the 50/50 vinegar/water and drying in the sunlight would be good.


Here are some other things in this link you can look at to help prepare you more (obsess over). 
One of the things in there mention clipping. And of course you don't have to clip your birds wings as they get a lot of exercise from it which prevents obesity. Flying also works birds lungs to help prevent them from weakening, which helps make them more resistant to diseases like respiratory infections. There are lots of flying benefits, but also risks.
http://peachfront.com/safetywebversion.html
http://www.naturechest.com/toptendaforb.html


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## Tacotielca (Dec 3, 2013)

Well some one need to clarify please because I have been using 50/50 vinegar and water in a spray bottle everyday. Spraying a paper towel in front of my tiel and wiping her cage with it every morning. Plus I use this same spray bottle to wipe up her poop immediately off the couch or floor or wherever and she is always around me when I do it. She doesn't seem to mind or hasn't fallen ill from me doing this for a year now.


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## mohum (Sep 5, 2014)

Cider vinegar was recommended for my previous bird and could also be added to his vegetables.I didn't find this as strongly smelling.


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## dianne (Nov 27, 2013)

I use 1:7 solution of vinegar and water in a spray bottle to clean poop off sides of the cage and floor. It hardly smells, and I don't remove the birds from the area. I haven't had a problem.


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

I've read diluted vinegar is very safe, but I just thought to rinse it to help further get things like droppings and food off. Even when I'm wiping my cage I miss stuff sometimes that water takes off in the tub. Many people have said you can leave it on it you want, it just really smells like vinegar. :lol:

I've read that apple cider vinegar is so safe that birds can bathe in it. I'm not sure about if vinegar gets on them. I've read about people moving their birds away from the area, but I'm not sure. Diluted vinegar is safe, but it's very acidic. I'd say to not let them get in the line of the spray, but they should be safe as long as it doesn't get into their eyes.

I'm more worried about the fumes of the vinegar than anything if they're exposed to it for a long time. If it's fully dried on cage bars and toys it's safe, a few sprays should be ok, but something like a bowl of it near them may not be. :S


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

I have been cleaning my birds' cage with a mixture of vinegar and water for as long as I have had them. Never any issues. I usually buy apple cider or white vinegar and dilute it with water - 1 part of vinegar and 3 parts of water. Then I spray everything in their cage, let it sit for a few minutes, and wipe it down clean. Then I spray just clean, warm water all over and wipe it dry.


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## ocd_birdlover (Sep 18, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the replies! Sorry I took so long to reply myself, procrastination on other issues 



> Be careful with vinegar. If vinegar is heated it releases deadly C02 gas that will kill your birds. So only use cool or lukewarm water when you mix it with vinegar. People have had birds die when they run vinegar through other machines like dishwashers and coffee machines because of the machines heating up. To be safe I would keep them away from the area. You're not supposed to have them in or around the cage when you're cleaning with vinegar. I would move them too the other room, birds love coming over and seeing what you're doing while you're cleaning. Since you have a pressure washer, most I know create heat and that could also release C02. In that case they need to be in the other room. :S


For sure, I've read several places about that - didn't have a clue way back (when I ran some through the dishwasher ( luckily it was an old dishwasher and didn't get hot enough to merit an issue) )

I just hope them being in the living room and cleaning in the kitchen is sufficient, I will more than likely run a fan also.

And of course the pressure washer would be outside, it would make a very 'interesting' event in the house lol



> I don't think it would hurt them if it's allowed to fully dry, but the smell would be more irritating to you than them since 'tiels don't have a good sense of smell. It wouldn't hurt them though. It just smells so strongly of vinegar if it's not rinsed off with water. I would still rinse them off anyway just to make sure you're fully taking off what you tried to wash off with vinegar.


This is good to know, as it was a main worry I was having.



> These are good for those stubborn droppings that just wont come off. The wire brush to me is the best.
> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...6&pcatid=25946
> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...42&pcatid=5942


I had actually found that second one before posting this, but I really like that first link, and I've run across that site several times doing the Google thing. It appears they have some nice stuff.



> Fumes are released if a product is overheated. I use a coffee grinder/spice grinder for my birdie bread recipes. This is the one I use, I liked the stainless steel blade. You're only supposed to press down on the button for a few seconds at a time or else it does overheat. Read the instructions on how long to push the buttons down.
> http://www.amazon.com/KRUPS-Electric.../dp/B00004SPEU
> If it's brand new you wont have to worry about allergies. A good way to clean your coffee grinder out is take a piece of bread and wipe the inside down.


Yep totally hear you on that, I should have put 'pulse' instead of running for 30 seconds. Still I know about the over heating thing, I worry about it when I want to use a heating pad but decide not to for fear of the insulation on the heating coil getting too hot.



> Here are some other things in this link you can look at to help prepare you more (obsess over).
> One of the things in there mention clipping. And of course you don't have to clip your birds wings as they get a lot of exercise from it which prevents obesity. Flying also works birds lungs to help prevent them from weakening, which helps make them more resistant to diseases like respiratory infections. There are lots of flying benefits, but also risks.
> http://peachfront.com/safetywebversion.html
> http://www.naturechest.com/toptendaforb.html


Those are also great links to consider. I think I ran over them a few times before posting here as well, but we've had our birds quite awhile now so I know most of the bad plants and dangers. Believe me some of these we learned from experience before Google and all that was around  Still so sad

:grey tiel:

Now that I have responded to what you said, which was some great info! Thanks again! I have thought of a couple more obsessive questions about vinegar. I thought of one more but forgot what it was, until I remember here are the two I thought of.


How fast would you say vinegar fumes settle? If I got some on my skin how long should I wait before going around the birds. Or if I sprayed it and it followed me via vapor from the air flow in the house, how long would it be 'bad'?

How harmful are vinegar fumes to birds exactly? IE: small whiffs of PTFE vapors are deadly, but is the same true for vinegar? Or in small whiffs would it be ok? Asking 'how' harmful is it for them to be around it... Prevent breathing, sneezing, etc? Or dire consequences?

Ok everyone thanks for reading another long OCD style reply/post. Hope to hear back!

Thanks

EDIT: not sure why those links I re posted aren't working, refer to Kiwi's post for the working links.


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

I haven't been able to find much information on vinegar fumes. But for straight vinegar: "Do not breathe in vinegar for a long period of time or in large quantities. Vinegar fumes can irritate your throat and lungs."
http://www.turi.org/Our_Work/Cleani...DIY_Health_and_Safety_Information/Vinegar-EHS

If you've ever opened a bottle of white vinegar and taken a whiff it makes you want to cough. I imagine it wouldn't be very good for 'tiels either. Once diluted with water it's much safer. Vinegar is safe for birds, but I wouldn't give prolonged exposure to the fumes. It's ok for them to be around it as long as it's not for a long time, it's properly diluted, stays off their skin and doesn't get in their eyes or is ingested (irritant). I'd use the rule if it doesn't irritate your lungs or skin then it would probably be ok for the 'tiels. If it's making you light headed or it's a little difficult to breathe then I wouldn't. My brother has asthma and once in a while vinegar makes it harder for him to breathe when we clean the windows with it. We use a high concentration in the vinegar though. 

Oh good the pressure washer is outside then. I thought you were going to move the stuff to the bathroom or something. :lol:
Then you shouldn't really need to worry about the C02 for 'tiels, just be careful when you're using it that it doesn't affect you.

If that little amount that gets on your skin it shouldn't be a problem. It's probably more irritating to your skin than your 'tiels lungs. A tiny, tiny amount of vinegar isn't going to hurt. I was thinking if there were strong fumes filling the entire room or something. 

It would start dispersing in the air even if it followed you. If they're in the next room they're pretty safe already and there's no C02 from the pressure washer. The C02 was what I was really worried about.
They'd be ok as long as the fumes are not too strong for you and don't irritate your lungs and skin and none gets on them. 

Here's an interesting article on how bird's lungs work. The Drs. Foster and Smith people posted it a while ago and I found it interesting. http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=15+1829&aid=2721


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