# 4 week old chick is vomiting



## sheepishsheep (Aug 14, 2011)

Hi everyone,

I posted a few weeks ago about my cockatiels who are raising a clutch of chicks at the moment. We have 3 chicks at this point, two of which are doing great and weigh 80 g and 90 g. The third chick, Mango, is not doing too well. He is only 3 days younger than his siblings but he only weighs about 50 g (although he is fully feathered, as are the others). 2 days ago I had to separate the chicks from both parents because they started plucking them. I have been feeding them 3 times a day.

Starting yesterday morning, after Mango's morning feeding, I realized that he vomited on the other chicks at some point in the middle of the night. Then when I was about to begin his afternoon feeding, he vomited before I had a chance to give him anything.

I took him to see an avian vet last night. The vet emptied out his stomach and looked at its contents under the microscope. He informed me that he saw a lot of rod-shaped gram negative bacteria. He's going to send out a culture and say exactly what it is in a few days. In the meantime, he's given me antibiotics to give the chick.

Finally, my question...do you have any suggestions as to what I can do to help Mango (in addition to obviously following the vet's instructions and giving antibiotics)? The crop is emptying extremely slowly and he is still vomiting (in fact, I'm worried that he may be vomiting the antibiotics, making his treatment less effective). Can I massage part of his body to help him metabolize the food faster? I have been trying to feed him more often and feed less at a time. Also, would it be better to NOT feed formula just before giving the antibiotics (i.e. give the medication on an empty stomach)? So far I've been giving him about 2-3 mL formula and then giving the antibiotics.

I know no one can tell me for sure what to do, but I would appreciate any advice or personal experiences that you may be able to share.

Thank you!


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

My question is what type of formula are you using, as some cockatiel chicks have a bad reaction to kaytee exact formula, how hot is the formula and how much are you feedind 3 times a day, they should only be getting 10% of body weight.

As to you slow crop emptying you might want to check out srtiels website as she has lots of useful information, here is the link to the sour and slow crop:
http:www.justcockatiels.weebly.com/sour-and-slow-crop-remedies.html


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## sheepishsheep (Aug 14, 2011)

I have been feeding Kaytee Exact formula at the temperatures recommended on the package, but I think the problem may have been overfeeding (I had been feeding 8 or 9 mL until yesterday morning before I realized that was too much). Since then I've been feeding 5 or 6 mL...hopefully it's not too late.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

Let me know how it goes, usually overfeeding can cause the crop to strech to quickly which then causes the crop to slow down and some babes even need a crop braw because their crops have been stretched to much, watch out for the slow crop, the crop needs to be fully empty at least once in a 24 hour period or you risk falling into sour crop problems


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## morla (Aug 15, 2011)

Aw. Thats to bad. I hope your chick gets better!


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## sheepishsheep (Aug 14, 2011)

Thanks for the responses!

I'm having trouble telling when his crop is completely empty...if there is any sort of bulge where the crop is, does that mean there's still food in it? Or would the crop still show to some extent even if it's empty?

I fed 2.5 mL at 8 PM last night, 4 AM this morning, and 12 noon today. What's the maximum time you suggest I wait between feedings to ensure the crop is empty without starving him?


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

Okay his crop is that flappy skin down his throat towards his feet, if he isnt feathered it will turn a creamy color when formula is added, i would give him his last feeding at 8-10pm and then wait until 6am to do the next feeding, how old is he exactly and make sure to give him his 10% feeding at bedtime it should empty overnight, when my babes get four feedings a day they get 7am, 12pm, 5pm, 12am, then when we go down to 3 its 7am, 3pm, 11pm, then when i go down to 2 feedings its 7am and 7pm, then the last feeding they get is 7pm always leave the last pm feeding left not the am, this way when they wake up they eat and you watch them throughout the day, checking the crop for seed in the crop, it will feel gritty, then they get one feeding and then its beddy bye time.


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## sheepishsheep (Aug 14, 2011)

Thank you so much nwoodrow! I'll do just as you said. I also asked the vet today about how it is taking so long for the crop to empty and she said I should provide thinner formula.

The vet did suggest that I don't give antibiotics on an empty stomach. If his crop is not yet completely empty at 4:30 am when I have to give antibiotics, should I feed him just a little (1 mL)? Or would it be best to just give the antibiotics with no extra food?


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

i find a 1 part formula to 2 1/2 parts is a pretty good consistency


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

what is his antibiotics schedule and is there a way you can give it to him one hour after his feeding, it does take a bit from feeding to go from crop to stomache which is why the babe still cries after a feeding.


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## sheepishsheep (Aug 14, 2011)

Hmmm I don't think I can do that...We have to give the antibiotics at 8:30 pm, 4:30 am, and 12:30 pm for another 24 hours, so at least for the 4:30 am dose, we will not be able to feed him an hour beforehand. What do you think I should do? Just give the antibiotics without food for that dose?


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## sheepishsheep (Aug 14, 2011)

I just wanted to post a few pictures. So the last time we fed Mango was almost 9 hours before these pictures were taken. At that time, he was fed 2 mL of formula. To me it still looks like there is food in his crop. I gave him his antibiotics 30 minutes ago and he was definitely begging for food more so than ever before. I think I'm going to feed him soon but I'd like to get a second opinion before doing so.


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

if you massage the crop gently before you feed and after you feed it will be very easy to tell when he has a full crop as you will know the difference, with formula it will feel sqhishy. as to feeding schedule if you have to feed babe his anti biotics on a full stomache then the best feeding schedule will be 4am, 12pm, 8pm. if you can manage that schedule, its still an every 8hour feeding schedule but would give the chicks thirty minuttes to start digesting food so that his antibiotics are not on a empty stomache


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

with this feeding schedule to go to a 2 day feeding schedula when he gets old enough you would take his morning feeding (4am) say he's getting 5 cc's and over the next 5 days you would lower his feeding by 1cc until gone his 12pm feeding over the next 5 days you would feed 1 hour earlier until you reach 7 am, and the last feeding at 8pm on the 5th day you would feed 1 hour earlier to get to 7pm, which will leave you with 7am and 7pm.


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## sheepishsheep (Aug 14, 2011)

Unfortunately Mango passed away this morning. We took him to the emergency clinic late last night where he was given fluids. This morning we took him to the avian vet, who looked at the contents of the stomach and saw fungus, bacteria, and yeast. He told us he probably has a weak immune system. We decided to hospitalize him, but by the time we got home we were told he'd died.

Thank you to everyone for all of your support and advice. 

I am just grateful that 2 of the chicks are still happy and healthy. Just to make sure I don't over/underfeed, I want to doublecheck that this sounds good: one chick weighs 90 g, the other weighs 80 g (without food in the crop). They are both 4.5 weeks old. I handfeed 9 mL and 8 mL to them, respectively, 3 times a day at 7 AM, 3 PM, and 10 PM. The parents also occasionally feed the chicks (I recently put the chicks back in the cage with the parents, since they stopped plucking). The chicks have started coming out of the box on their own, and I was worried they might come out and not be able to go back in and get cold. So I put a small fabric tent inside the cage with wood shavings inside it, along with a warm water bottle wrapped in a towel in case they need something warm to huddle against. I also covered the grate of the cage with posterboard. I've been offering millet, rice, and eggs to them, and so far only the bigger chick has tried the millet a few times.

Please let me know if there's anything I should change about this set up. Sorry for all the details but I just don't want to lose anyone else


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## sheepishsheep (Aug 14, 2011)

Also, when diluting the food, I usually dilute 1 part formula with slightly more than 2 parts water. Does that sound too thick/thin for chicks of this age?


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

no that sounds perfect, also make sure you dont go past 9cc's , and they are now ar the age that you can start putting a sprig of millet and a little plate of water in the brooder for them to strart strying it might only take a little while or it might take longer but get it there so they can get started sooner.


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## sheepishsheep (Aug 14, 2011)

Thanks nwoodrow! I put millet on the bottom of the cage yesterday and they were both eating it . They also like a packaged egg food that I bought from a pet store for them. What kind of vegetables would you suggest I try at this age? Is brocolli okay? And is it too early to offer seeds?

When do I start decreasing how much I'm feeding them for the mid-day feeding? They are already making it really difficult to feed them, but so far I've been able to do it despite their struggles haha


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## nwoodrow (Feb 13, 2011)

when you introduce seed and you start feeling the gritty seed in the crop its then onkay to start decreasing the middle feeding, and you can introduce seed now it does sometimes take longer for them to eat it but the earlier you intoduce it the less longer it will take and they wont be so used to the fattening millet that they dont wnt the helathy seed, as to vegetables you can try hanging romaine lettuce off the wires of the daytime cage, and shredded carrots always make sure these are seperate from the seed dishes you dont want them refusing the carrots and then not going for the seed cause its got something they dont like, also good rule when you introduce water the shallower the dish the better and the less likely they will go to far in and aspirate themselves.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

Im so sorry for your loss


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