# My poor Buddy isn't feeling well :cry:



## Chirpington (Feb 17, 2012)

Oh noooooo. How quickly something can go wrong....... My bird was fine this morning, everything seemed normal, after a couple of hours though I noticed he was being rather quiet, that's not unusual though some days he has quiet days, then noticed he had some very runny poos and he hasn't had anything watery or a bath today....... start of concern...... then notice he has lost his appetite...... lots of concern........and now he can't seem to stay awake, he is just sitting there sleeping and his feet feel clammy and  and he's kind of hunched over a bit. I feel devastated and could hardly keep myself together ringing the vet and talking to them about it. He's been like this the last couple of hours now.

I can't believe how emotional I feel knowing he isn't feeling well. I shouldn't be surprised really I love that little monster more than anything and I'm really really trying to be strong so he doesn't pick up on me being upset but I can't seem to help it. I've just gone to pieces seeing him sick. 

The vet said that they couldn't see him until tomorrow and to just let him rest in a quiet spot that is a warm temperature. 

I wish he could talk and tell me what's wrong so I knew what to do


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Is the vet open now? If so, I'd take him and just show up at their door. With a decline that fast, I wouldn't be comfortable waiting until tomorrow.


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## Chirpington (Feb 17, 2012)

I know right, I tried to tell that to them over the phone. 

Realistically though I think taking him to the vet would only make me feel better and like I was doing something, really the drive there (is at least 15km away or a tad more and part of the ride would be a noisy highway) would not be good for him like this. I wish all vets and all Doctors for that matter went to the sick in emergencies and didn't make the sick patients have to travel to them!!!!

I tried the local mobile vet first but she's away at the mo.

I'm just going to make him as comfortable as possible and hope for the best now....


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## Codyandme1 (Sep 14, 2011)

Oh no!  I hope he gets through it!
Sending hugs your way!


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## Codyandme1 (Sep 14, 2011)

Ok... Runny poo can be a result of 
-change in diet(new food, spoiled food ect.)
-disease of other organs
-egg ready to be laid, or egg binding
-abdominal hernia(unlikely)
-overtreatment with antibiotics
-stress
-or parasites 

And loss of appetite is seen with many diseases so if you have any other birds I suggest separating them,

Less active, less talking/whistling, more sleeping and decreased responsiveness mean there is definitely something wrong,.... 
Keep checking that he's ok and provide general supportive care,
Also I suggest setting up a small hospital cage in a quiet room with a blanket or something over the cage to reduce stress...

I hope someone else with more experience can help you!

Hold in there little guy,
*hug* loving thoughts!


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

Is there an emergency vet that you can take him to, just until you can get to your normal vet tomorrow? They go down hill so fast, which is one main reason why they need to be seen right away. The sooner he is seen, the quicker they can find out what it is, and start treatment. 

Like it has been said above, set up a cage, put food and water dishes on the ground/low, and keep an eye on him. 

I hope he pulls through, keeping him in my thoughts.


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## Chirpington (Feb 17, 2012)

Thanks people, to be honest I'm really not impressed with the the vets around here. There aren't any avian specialists and the normal vets say they treat birds but when I had to take him in once before (not for illness tho just for itchy feather legs as he had new feathers growing in on his legs but was distressing him a lot) anyway they were hopeless, seriously, just heaps of cliche advice and charged me a fortune for being zero help and trying to say he had sprained his legs and give him dog anti inflammatories which he just wouldn't take because it was a cream and now way to try and feed that to him!!! Anyway I booked him in with the other vet but to be honest I have about zero faith in them now after they just brushed off the description I gave them over the phone. Sigh.... 

On a good side he is still doing OK, he seemed to liven up a tad a couple hours ago and even wanted to come out of his cage and flew to his fav spot, he even ate 2 or 3 little millet bits but that was all and I haven't seen him have any water yet. His feet still feel clammy though and he went fluffy/sleepy pretty quick again so I popped him back in his cage and he's sleeping now (it is night time here though so is his usual sleep time now). 

Also there isn't any redness or running from his eyes or nose so I think it might be something he has eaten. He did try bougainvillea and kale for the first time the day before but that was about 18 hours beforehand so I would have thought that if that was bad it would have showed sooner after eating? Also he has been eating a pineapple top this last week, he started eating that about 5 days ago though and seemed fine but they are the only new foods I can think of?


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## Codyandme1 (Sep 14, 2011)

Yeah, well I guess that's classified as slight change in diet, so mabey that's just what gave him runny poop, mabey introduce the new foods a little more gradually, to reduce stress, I don't know... Just popped in my head... Good to hear he's sleeping, night time over here too.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Just some thoughts...itchy feather along the legs can be a sign of either giardia or a food allergy (corn, soy products)

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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm so sorry. I hope your little tiel is doing okay. Keep us posted.


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## northernfog (Dec 14, 2010)

Oh no! Here's hoping that he will feel better soon. Hopes and prayers your way!


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## Chirpington (Feb 17, 2012)

OK so phewwwwww! He has come through the night and is HEAPS better this morning. He's still not 100%, you can still feel his feet temperature is a little bit off but yeah, he's heaps more responsive again and looks alert and interactive, he's eaten a little bit this morning and was even able to get a little sing song out of him and he's preening again. 

Man O Man I can't tell you how relieved I am....and how tired I am from getting up to check on him all through the night!!!!!


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## Codyandme1 (Sep 14, 2011)

Phew... Good to here! 
I would still be cautious and take him in for a check up anyways, just to be safe 

Yay that he's feelings better


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm tuning in late here, but I didn't see any mention of a heat lamp. You can help him stay warm by putting a towel over one end of the cage and shining a lamp on it. The heat will pass through the towel and the light won't glare in his eyes. You only want to heat up one end of the cage so he can move to the cooler side if he starts feeling too hot.


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## DesertDweller (Oct 8, 2011)

Bougainvillea is POISONOUS!!
That may be his problem. You need to get some charcoal into him. An all-night pharmacy or supermarket might have charcoal capsules in the Health section, or you can try crushing a little bit of charcoal dog biscuits. Try to give him a tiny bit of charcoal on his tongue.

It would be well worth it for you to go out tonight and try to get some.

I don't care what anyone says about bougainvillea being safe. It is NOT.


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

I was going to mention a heat pad, but me being half asleep when I posted that, I forgot. 

I am glad he is doing much better though and I hope he continues to improve.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

DesertDweller said:


> Bougainvillea is POISONOUS!!
> That may be his problem. You need to get some charcoal into him. An all-night pharmacy or supermarket might have charcoal capsules in the Health section, or you can try crushing a little bit of charcoal dog biscuits. Try to give him a tiny bit of charcoal on his tongue.
> 
> It would be well worth it for you to go out tonight and try to get some.
> ...


Charcoal needs to be given very rapidly in order to bind toxins. Since it's already been almost 24 hours, I wouldn't recommend it at this point. It could upset the bird's system more, especially if he is already seeming better. I WOULD take him for a vet check today, though.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Bougainvillea is POISONOUS!!


From http://www.gardenguides.com/105330-bougainvillea-toxicity.html :



> The waxlike substance on bougainvillea spines is toxic and causes skin irritation when touched. This skin rash is known as contact dermatitis. Bougainvillea is not considered a toxic plant to ingest. It is listed by the University of Iowa Hospital as nontoxic. The skin rash is a potential irritant to pets as well as children and adults.


From http://www.ehow.com/facts_7310622_bougainvillea-poisonous-dogs_.html :



> Bougainvillea is considered a mildly poisonous plant if ingested by dogs.
> 
> According to the Minnesota Department Of Health, a plant that is listed as non-toxic for animals may not cause serious health problems, but dogs can still suffer from ill effects after ingestion. Gastrointestinal symptoms such as diarrhea and vomiting are the most commonly seen in dogs after plant ingestion.


Cockatiel Cottage lists it as safe: http://www.cockatielcottage.net/houseplants.html

I looked at several other sites, and there seems to be general agreement that the spines can cause irritation, and the toxicity from ingestion is estimated at zero to mild.


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## DesertDweller (Oct 8, 2011)

Excellent post, tielfan! As can be seen by your links, bougainvillea is toxic. Yes, maybe some have found that certain parts of the plant are ingested fine, however, considering that it has been proven that certain other parts of the plant cause symptoms, I'd take that as an indication to steer clear of it entirely.

Birds are a lot more sensitive to things than are dogs or humans. Albeit, dogs are a different type of animal, it still warrants caution if some plant can cause a dog or human to have GI symptoms.

Seems like the symptoms that Barney has include GI problems. In my opinion, it would be reasonable to consider that he came in contact with a portion of the plant that could cause those symptoms.

Regarding the charcoal: Better late than never. And, a small amount of charcoal will not cause any harm. Although it's been about 24 hours, the charcoal could still help to sweeten Barney's digestive tract and possibly give him some relief from his discomfort. 

Sounds like whatever was troubling him was passing through, but a little charcoal could still provide a soothing action to his poor 'tummy'.


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## DesertDweller (Oct 8, 2011)

Just one other point I'd like to make regarding toxic plants. I had done extensive research into toxic plants when rehabbing reptiles and birds years ago. I gave up all my little guys when I suffered a severely debilitating neck injury 12 years ago.

However, when I first got the birds I currently have last summer, I looked up the lists of safe and toxic plants on bird websites, 2 of which you posted, Carolyn. I was very surprised to see that plants considered toxic on my older lists are on the safe lists for birds. If in doubt, I prefer to err on the side of considering them toxic. If you'd like me to list some of those plants, I'll be happy to!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> As can be seen by your links, bougainvillea is toxic.... I was very surprised to see that plants considered toxic on my older lists are on the safe lists for birds.


You have to keep in mind that different sources have different criteria for considering something to be toxic. Some sites will call a plant toxic if it causes mild reactions in sensitive individuals on rare occasions. Other sites won't label a plant toxic for minor, rare problems, and only call it toxic if it causes problems on a fairly regular basis.

The intensity of toxicity should be kept in mind too. Bougainvillea spines can cause skin irritation and ingesting the rest of the plant can occasionally cause mild problems. So the word "toxic" can be applied to it, but that doesn't mean it's deadly. Cyanide is toxic too but at a MUCH more serious level. 



> Although it's been about 24 hours, the charcoal could still help to sweeten Barney's digestive tract and possibly give him some relief from his discomfort.


It's probably much too late to have any effects related to the bougainvillea, but I agree that there's nothing wrong with providing a little bird charcoal. Wild cockatiels are known to eat charcoal ( see http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=16205 ) and my flock appreciates it as a small part of their basic diet. I keep a small amount in a sleep cage that the birds have free access to in the daytime. 8 in 1 is the brand that's easiest to find. This brand comes in a small bag, but the Hagen company also sells it in a bigger box.


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## Chirpington (Feb 17, 2012)

The charcoal would have been a really excellent idea ( I can't believe I didn't think of that!!!) although I don't know he would have taken it as he seemed to completely stop eating and drinking. I was so worried he would dehydrate with no water but I guess he knew what was right for him. His footy temperatures have come back to normal now and the only thing still to go is his poop as that's still not right yet.

It was bougainvillea flowers that he was eating, and I only saw him have the petals, not the stamens or stems. How scary though, I saw it as safe on that cottage sight and then didn't think twice about it. Do you guys all reckon that's what it would have been??? I think he ate that at about 5pm and then was sick by about 11am-noonish the next day? Do you think that time periods points the finger at it or excludes it???


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## Chirpington (Feb 17, 2012)

And yes a list of the plants in question that are listed as both safe and toxic on different sources would be awesome. I'd rather play it safe.....


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

There's no way to know for sure whether it was the bougainvillea or something else, but it's entirely possible that he's sensitive to it. Some things have an instant effect and others take longer, so the time when he started acting "off" doesn't prove anything one way or another.

Any time you're thinking about giving a new plant to your bird, it's a good idea to google it (both common name and scientific name) along with the word toxicity or toxic, and look at a lot of different results. This is the best way I know to find out if there is any kind of toxicity associated with the plant, and whether negative effects are rare or common.


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## DesertDweller (Oct 8, 2011)

Whenever I have any doubts about the safety of something, I stay away from it. I've seen numerous plants on both safe and toxic lists, so I stay away from those plants entirely. Why take a chance? My babies are too precious to risk it.

I'm very happy to hear that Barney is doing better!!

And, by the way, I did note that he wasn't eating or drinking, which is why I recommended just picking him up and placing a tiny bit on his little tongue. That would have been enough charcoal to do some good.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> I recommended just picking him up and placing a tiny bit on his little tongue. That would have been enough charcoal to do some good.


What is your source for this information? 

In the first place, food passes rapidly through a bird's digestive tract - we're talking minutes - and charcoal is only effective on substances that are still present in the stomach or intestines. If the toxin has already passed to other parts of the body, charcoal will do nothing. 

In the second place, charcoal works on substances in the digestive tract by physically attaching itself to the substances. If there is a substantial amount of material to be adsorbed, you need a corresponding amount of charcoal to bind it - a tiny little bit of charcoal can only adsorb a tiny little bit of unwanted material. If there is other material in the digestive tract, e.g. ordinary food, the charcoal can't distinguish between wanted and unwanted materials so you'll need more charcoal to make sure there's enough to get the bad stuff.

Activated charcoal is the most effective form so it is normally used to treat poisoning cases. Bird charcoal and other easily available forms are not activated charcoal, and are expected to be less efficient at adsorbing toxins than the activated form. 

For anyone that wants more information, one source is the article at http://www.emedicinehealth.com/activated_charcoal/article_em.htm



> I've seen numerous plants on both safe and toxic lists, so I stay away from those plants entirely. Why take a chance?


My approach is different. I feel that almost all the risk can be eliminated with a little intelligent thought and research. After eliminating everything that can cause serious problems or common problems, the remaining risk is that a rare sensitive individual might experience minor problems. There's no need to deprive birds of something because of a small risk that it could cause minor problems, and the owner already knows to be alert in case these problems actually occur. Some people are allergic to certain foods, but normal parents don't prohibit their children from trying these foods because there's a small risk that they might be sensitive.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

All plants can make a bird sick whether they are safe or toxic. Simply because if fertilizer or any chemicals are used on the plant the plant absorbs them.

ANY new plant should be repotted in clean untreated soil. Prior to repotting the dirt must be shaken off the roots, the roots flushed under running water for a minute or two, potted in clean soil, watered for a couple days and wait a week before having near any animals/birds that might chew on the plant.

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## Chirpington (Feb 17, 2012)

This particular plant I was bought before Christmas and repotted and it is all new growth and flowers that he had, nothing that would have been sprayed etc. 

I thought of another new thing he had, puffed organic amaranth. I think it's my fault, I've gotten complacent on the checking foods - I used to check several sites for anything when he was a baby but now that it has been 4years and I've never had any problems before I usually just google it quickly and if one of the regular sites I've checked before says its fine than on we go. 

It could well be an individual sensitivity but I would have thought that would present like an allergy and include some sort of redness or swelling or itching, or even possibly breathing difficulties. There was nothing like that, the only real indicator of what was happening was with his poop showing signs of liver/kidney stress. Btw, his poop texture is looking better again today but still a bit suspect. How long would you expect it to be until it should be normal again given what has happened? I'll take a sample to the vet if it still looks dodgy either tomorrow or over the next few days. Like I said before though I'll avoid the vet if It all looks OK purely because they aren't Avian vets and I just haven't been impressed with them before with bird stuff. It isn't expensive, I've already priced it, a bird consult is around $40 and poop test $18, money isn't the point, or time...it's simply confidence in them as I don't really have any.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The Feeding Feathers group at http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FeedingFeathers/ recommends cooking or sprouting amaranth because of a toxin that's present in the dry state. Puffed grains become puffed during a dry-heating process, which I would think would be equivalent to a type of cooking. But I don't know if this type of cooking would be enough to get rid of the toxin, or if water is needed to leach out the toxin.


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## Chirpington (Feb 17, 2012)

Thanks tielfan, I'll look into that more and hopefully narrow down whether that could have been the culprit then.


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## Chirpington (Feb 17, 2012)

*^&%!!!! I bet it was the amaranth. Uncooked it is right up there with avocado for them. I'd say being dry puffed doesn't eliminate the toxin, or however this stuff was puffed anyway. 

I see other bird food products, and cockatiel products for that matter online with puffed amaranth as an ingredient though so I thought it was fine. 

It might be a bit like red kidney beans for humans or something, where it has to reach a certain temp for a minimum time to remove the toxin. 

I'm going to have to eat the rest of my amaranth outside now lol the dam stuff is like styrene and just flys up everywhere when you pour it!

Maybe we should put a warning about this for others??? The brand I was eating was Orgran 100% Amaranth Puffed Breakfast Cereal.

I think it makes more sense that this could be the culprit than the bougainvillea, do u guys think the same????


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

From http://simplyhealthylifemagazine.blogspot.com/2011/09/development-of-amaranth-enriched.html : "a scientist in Australia fed raw amaranth grain to poultry as the major component of the diet. As a result the chickens went into convulsions and died. An unidentified toxic factor had caused liver damage leading to the death of the chickens."

That's pretty scary, although the article talks a lot about humans popping amaranth like popcorn and eating it, and doesn't mention problems associated with it. But on the other hand there's this quote from http://www.mothering.com/community/...n-maker-to-make-puffed-grains-eg-millet-kamut :

"results like these suggested that there was something actually toxic about the Puffed Wheat itself. Proteins are very similar to certain toxins in molecular structure, and the puffing process of putting the grain under 1500 pounds per square inch of pressure and then releasing it may produce chemical changes which turn a nutritious grain into a poisonous substance."

If there's any truth to this (and I don't know whether there is) it's possible that the toxin might still be present in puffed amaranth depending on the way it was puffed, or that the puffing process might actually increase the toxicity. 

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amaranth_grain : "examples of anti-nutritional factors present in amaranth include oxalates, nitrates, saponins and phenolic compounds. Cooking methods such as boiling amaranth in water and then discarding the water may reduce its toxic effects."

There's no way of knowing whether the problem was caused by the bougainvillea or the amaranth or the combination of both, or if it was completely unrelated to either one of them. But it certainly sounds like the amaranth has more inherent toxicity than the bougainvillea does, and the puffing process might not have eliminated the toxin.


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## DesertDweller (Oct 8, 2011)

tielfan said:


> What is your source for this information?
> 
> In the first place, food passes rapidly through a bird's digestive tract - we're talking minutes - and charcoal is only effective on substances that are still present in the stomach or intestines. If the toxin has already passed to other parts of the body, charcoal will do nothing.
> 
> ...


I have numerous sources, since I’ve been researching since 1972. I started to make a list, but it’s way too long. If you’d like a list, I’d be happy to provide you my curriculum vitae in a PM. 

Yes, food passes rapidly through the bird’s digestive tract. The charcoal is extremely porous the finer it is. The toxin may have already passed – evidenced by Barney’s improvement – however, the charcoal could still absorb any residual toxins and help speed up his recovery. Since activated charcoal (which is exactly what ingestible charcoal is ) is so fine, only a tiny smidgen is sufficient for the bird to ingest. Barney was not eating or drinking, which is why I recommended placing a ‘smudge’ of charcoal on his tongue. 

Bird charcoal is activated charcoal. Has to be. Because non-activated charcoal would not be able to absorb the toxins, and could cause harmful effects.

Here’s a source which goes into it extensively: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activated_charcoal


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> If you’d like a list, I’d be happy to provide you my curriculum vitae in a PM.


I don't want a list of offline resources, but I would appreciate a semi-reputable link backing up your statements. The Wikipedia link doesn't say anything that verifies your claims. For example:

*"It [activated charcoal] is thought to bind to poison and prevent its absorption by the gastrointestinal tract. "* This bird's symptoms weren't even noticed until several hours after ingesting the plant material, and none of it should have been left in the GI tract at that time - see http://www.netpets.com/birds/reference/lafeber/12/super_efficient_system.html According to http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww71eii.htm it takes about 30 minutes for food to pass through the digestive tract of a parrot, and I would expect about the same time frame for cockatiels. 

Any toxins remaining in the body would have relocated to somewhere else at that point, for example the liver. The Wikipedia article indicates that activated charcoal can be used to remove toxins from the blood, but additional research indicates that the blood has to physically contact the charcoal, usually by being passed through a filter. There is nothing in the article indicating that oral consumption of activated charcoal is useful against toxins that are no longer present in the GI tract.



> Bird charcoal is activated charcoal. Has to be. Because non-activated charcoal would not be able to absorb the toxins, and could cause harmful effects.


I disagree. Wild cockatiels and other Australian birds are known to eat charcoal (burned wood) from areas burned by wildfires. This is definitely not activated charcoal, which according to your own Wikipedia source is produced through a manufacturing process. Presumably the birds are eating this natural charcoal because it is beneficial and not because they are trying to harm themselves. http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=16205

The sellers of bird charcoal don't say exactly what kind of charcoal it is, but if it was activated charcoal one would expect them to publicize this fact. But all the companies say is that it's specially ground for birds - see http://www.wag.com/bird/p/8in1-ultracare-bird-charcoal-116454 and http://ca-en.hagen.com/Bird/Nutrition/Supplements/B2456 There's no indication of any processing other than simple grinding, which is not sufficient to produce activated charcoal. 

Charcoal has been used medicinally for thousands of years - see http://www.drugs.com/npp/charcoal.html and note the part where it says "At a meeting of the French Academy of Sciences in 1831, a pharmacist ingested several times the lethal dose of strychnine with equal amounts of charcoal and survived. " This couldn't have been activated charcoal because it hadn't been invented yet - its development started around 1870 and it didn't reach the market until 1911.


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## DesertDweller (Oct 8, 2011)

OY! This is really getting ridiculous, tielfan. 
This thread is really getting off the topic.
A new post regarding charcoal would be more appropriate.

Let's just stay with Barney's welfare, please. 

I sure hope Barney's feeling better!!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Actually I don't feel this is ridiculous at all, I find it very interesting and am learning quite a bit from reading what is being said here.


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## Chirpington (Feb 17, 2012)

I have to pick you up on something here DesertDweller.......my birds name is Buddy  

Thankyou though for both of your input, I think the charcoal was a fantastic idea - really I wish I had of thought of it at the time and at least tried to get some into him (although he's tame but he hates being handled and I don't know how I would have gotten it onto his tongue if he wouldn't take it himself as I think the stress of being held down could have been too much for him while he was so fragile).

Even though I don't think he had any in his GI tract he may have eaten some more that I didn't see, that stuff just flys up like styrene when you open the packet and gets everywhere. So the charcoal still would have been worth a shot I think just incase but yes generally I think it works best if consumed asap after the toxin/poison so that it can bind to it.


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## DesertDweller (Oct 8, 2011)

roxy culver said:


> Actually I don't feel this is ridiculous at all, I find it very interesting and am learning quite a bit from reading what is being said here.


Thanks!! I was just worried that we were kind of hijacking the thread and taking the focus off poor Buddy. I've been enjoying it, too. Just maybe we need a new thread specifically for charcoal.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

O we have tons of threads on charcoal already. This one can just be added to the list!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*Just maybe we need a new thread specifically for charcoal. *
-----------------------------

We have had more than enough in regards to charcoal...thanks.

As to charcoal it is best mixed with psyllium (found in Metamucil) to act as a binder and absorb any suspect contaminates or toxins in the GI tract.

As to the Bougainvillea it is safe for the birds. I give my tiels and mousebirds twigs with leaves and flowers when they are in bloom, and have done so for quite a few years with no ill effects. The only time a safe plant can be 'potentially' toxic is if it has been sprayed with a pesticide or fertilized.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> I don't know how I would have gotten it onto his tongue if he wouldn't take it himself as I think the stress of being held down could have been too much for him while he was so fragile


I think it's just as well that you didn't stress him while he was in this condition. Even if he still had toxins in his GI tract, it would have been hard for the charcoal to catch up to them before they left the body. It's probably a little easier with humans, since our digestive tracts don't move as fast and hospitals have the technology to pipe the activated charcoal to exactly where it's needed. In a home setting with a bird, you would either need for the bird to have just eaten the toxic material, or for the upper section of the GI tract to be moving faster than the lower section. 

If the problem was some sort of acid indigestion rather than toxins in the body, the charcoal might have helped with that. The advertising claims say it helps neutralize acid in the stomach, and my very healthy birds like to eat charcoal so it must provide some benefit even under normal circumstances. It's important to keep the quantities small though because charcoal doesn't distinguish between toxins and nutrients, and too much could lead to vitamin/mineral deficiencies.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Here's an idea: add cilantro to Buddy's diet. The information sources aren't very scientific, but there are indications that it might be able to chelate heavy metals. I don't know whether it could have an effect on other kinds of toxins that might be stored in the tissues, but it's a nice healthy veggie in any case so there's nothing to lose.

Here's a thread about a forum member whose lovebird's chronic abnormal droppings improved after adding cilantro and celery seed to the diet: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=24242


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## Chirpington (Feb 17, 2012)

He already eats that and LOVES it


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Good! If it actually has any detox benefits he will reap them.


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## Chirpington (Feb 17, 2012)

Update: Fortunately Buddy made a full recovery and is back to his sassy little self


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Im glad to hear that Buddy is better!


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## northernfog (Dec 14, 2010)

I'm so happy to see this update!


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## JaimeS (Nov 28, 2011)

So happy to hear good news!


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## suhel.desai (Mar 20, 2012)

hi Chirpington ,

I can understand how u feel..i too become restless when my tiel is quieter than usual.
Hope he gets well to his usual self at the earliest


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