# Enough sunlight?



## northernfog (Dec 14, 2010)

Hello, 
so I didn't know that it was so important for our birds to take in sunlight until it was recently discuss in this forum. Since I read this, I've been started to take her to the backyard for some sunlight and I've been doing this about 1-2 times a week per 20-30 minutes. I guess, what I'm trying to understand is whether this is enough time for her to intake the vitamins she needs. Also, I know it's mid February, but it is pretty warm outside in here. 

But I have noticed something though. While she is outside she tends to make several urine droppings. Like, they are literally just like a drop of water, nothing else. At first I thought that she was stressed because the cars made this load noise outside and it seemed to scare her, but yesterday she did it again for around 5-7 droppings maybe. Maybe she has done this earlier too, but I guess I never noticed. The funny thing is that once she is inside, withing half an hour or so, the poops return to normal! :\ 

Also, my father sprayed the plants outside with bug-spray. When do you guys think it's safe to open the windows for some fresh air and when is it alright to take her in the backyard again? 

Thank You!


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## green parakeet (Oct 20, 2011)

40-60 minutes a week is very low light for her to get vitamens. You should be haveing around 2-3 hours per day. Thats kinda hard to achive if its raining or if your busy so the best way to get the 2-3 hours per day is by useing a FSL


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## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

FSL is full spectrum lighting.. and yes if she is stressed she will probably poo watery. Being near a roadway, like me, and just having her out there will stress her. It is also a good start to what she needs but they do need more. 

Kudos to you for trying to get her to do something that you felt was more healthy for her.  If you are not able to give her direct sunlight on a daily basis.. you can buy a lamp to set near her with a bulb that is full spectrum lighting. This will give her the light that she needs to be in optimum health.


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## northernfog (Dec 14, 2010)

And these FSL lights, are they similar the the CFL ones? Are they dangerous if they were to break? Do they contain mercury?


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

What is CFL? 

Here is the full spectrum lighting bulb:

http://www.everythingbirdie.com/zoomedavli.html











And some information about full spectrum lighting: 



> *The Whole Truth about Full Spectrum Lighting and Why Your Bird Must Have It*
> by Dr. Greg Burkett, Certified Avian Veterinarian
> 
> The sun is the ultimate source of full spectrum lighting. Light has three components: Visible light, Ultra-violet - A (UV-A), and UV-B. Visible light can be refracted with a prism to give us the colors of the rainbow, which are the colors that humans are able to see. Ultra-violet light is not visible by human eyes. It is, however, visible to birds.
> ...


It should be alright to take her outside maybe 30 or so mins after the plants have been sprayed, just make sure her cage is placed somewhere well away from the plants outside and that there is no smell before you open the windows.


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## northernfog (Dec 14, 2010)

These are the CFL ones. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_fluorescent_lamp I had two break/explode one after the other and mercury isn't actually the best thing to have around the house, LOL.


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## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

From everything that I can find.. yes.. there is mercury in FSL bulbs. Amounts vary. We're not at the point yet of being able to make something that nature makes without adding some things to it.  

If you prefer to stick with natural sunlight, then that is fine.. but a few more times a week than two would give them their requirement. Daily would be the thing.. and for a few hours. Unfortunatly, our hands are still tied on so many things with having pets in captivity. If you are totally against mercury.. then you won't use them. If you are okay with making sure things stay safe around the bulb (which mind you has been going on for years) then that choice is yours.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I don't leave my FSL on when I'm not around for this reason. But the ones made for birds need to be replaced every 10-12 months anyway, because they lose the ability to produce the right spectrum of light after that time. So I think it's unlikely you'd have one burn out before you had to replace it. 

I think if you start really looking into the composition of many household products (and food, even), you'd be pretty horrified by what you found. Reality is that there are small amounts of harmful substances in almost everything we have around us. That's just the way it is. My approach is to research what I buy, use according to directions, and then not worry too much about the rest. It's a good way to make yourself nuts if you think about it all the time.


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## northernfog (Dec 14, 2010)

DyArianna said:


> From everything that I can find.. yes.. there is mercury in FSL bulbs. Amounts vary. We're not at the point yet of being able to make something that nature makes without adding some things to it.
> 
> If you prefer to stick with natural sunlight, then that is fine.. but a few more times a week than two would give them their requirement. Daily would be the thing.. and for a few hours. Unfortunatly, our hands are still tied on so many things with having pets in captivity. If you are totally against mercury.. then you won't use them. If you are okay with making sure things stay safe around the bulb (which mind you has been going on for years) then that choice is yours.


The thing with mercury is that I understand the first one was our fault that it broke. But for the second one (from the same package) we just turned on the light for the first time and a small piece exploded. You could see around the small piece that broke the glass turned see-though instead of the white we usually see with these bulbs.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

northernfog said:


> The thing with mercury is that I understand the first one was our fault that it broke. But for the second one (from the same package) we just turned on the light for the first time and a small piece exploded. You could see around the small piece that broke the glass turned see-though instead of the white we usually see with these bulbs.


Sounds like you had a defective package. The bird-specific FSL bulbs I have seen appear to be very high quality and have very thick glass around them. I have the ZooMed Avian Sun, and I am happy with it. I have heard good things about Featherbrite as well.


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

I don’t use FSL, but if you are unable to get your Cockatiel outside each day for 20-40 mins of sunlight, then FSL would be certainly useful.


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## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

That's actually a really great way of thinking. And if you allow for those few times there might be a flaw in the product... you are set. As a parent and now a grand parent.. it is really easy to lose track of when something should be changed. Life is very busy. So with us.. updated and replacing at a certain time of year helps with exploding products or even battery backups dying.

And yes, to me it sounds like a defective package. Or a package around beyond a time suitable for it.


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## northernfog (Dec 14, 2010)

enigma731 said:


> I don't leave my FSL on when I'm not around for this reason. But the ones made for birds need to be replaced every 10-12 months anyway, because they lose the ability to produce the right spectrum of light after that time. So I think it's unlikely you'd have one burn out before you had to replace it.
> 
> I think if you start really looking into the composition of many household products (and food, even), you'd be pretty horrified by what you found. Reality is that there are small amounts of harmful substances in almost everything we have around us. That's just the way it is. My approach is to research what I buy, use according to directions, and then not worry too much about the rest. It's a good way to make yourself nuts if you think about it all the time.


I don't really know about other household items/food... but this one I had a personal experience with.


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## northernfog (Dec 14, 2010)

Thank you all for your replies. I will see and choose. 
I learn something new about her everyday!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I have the impression that no one really knows how much sunlight birds need for vitamin D synthesis, but the estimates generally seem to range from 30 minutes a day to 30 minutes a week. For comparison, light-skinned people in a place with strong sunlight need 5-10 minutes per day. If your bird is eating pellets or nutriberries she will get some D3 from that, so you're really looking to use the sun to supplement any vitamin D that she's getting in her diet. 

Vegas should have nice strong sunlight even in the winter (like Tucson where I live) and at this time of year the middle of the day is the best time to catch some rays because that's when the sun is most intense. In the summer it will be better to take the bird out when the sun is less intense (and not so freaking hot).


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## northernfog (Dec 14, 2010)

Alright, thank you tielfan. 
Yes, she does eat pellets but not nutriberries as I don't know what they are. I usually take her out at around that time of day(12 through 3 pm). I am home 4 out of 3 days of the week at this time, so I will spend some time out with her myself for those 4 days. 
It's probably a good idea for myself as well, as I am an ovo-lacto vegetarian and sunlight and vitamin D is much required for me too! xD


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Nutriberries are nutritionally equivalent to pellets but they look like seed balls. Most cockatiels LOVE them. You can request a free sample at http://www.lafebercares.com/contact.html They have several different kinds so be sure to tell them you want cockatiel size.


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## northernfog (Dec 14, 2010)

tielfan said:


> Nutriberries are nutritionally equivalent to pellets but they look like seed balls. Most cockatiels LOVE them. You can request a free sample at http://www.lafebercares.com/contact.html They have several different kinds so be sure to tell them you want cockatiel size.


Thank you, will do so!


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## Mimi0212 (Feb 6, 2012)

I live in an apartment and to tell you the truth, I was not aware that tiels NEEDED sunlight  My question is, can I just start taking them out from one day to the other? Will the temperature change from my apartment to the outside affect them health wise? I just had a tiel die and I'm thinking that the shifting temperature affected him, I live in Florida during the winter time it can be hot one day and the temperature low the next. Summer time is horribly hot and the apartment it kept cooler. I just don't want to harm them  After reading about the bulbs containing mercury I'm a bit concerned, I have small kids and well....accidents tend to happen


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I don't think it will hurt them too much to take them out in the winter, I'm from Florida and temps can get pretty extreme at times but I think it'll be OK.


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

While we're on the topic of sunlight, I have been meaning to get my Sunny a full-spectrum lamp for about *A YEAR* now but I haven't had any success.:wacko: I don't know where to get it in Toronto. I tried calling my (avian) vet to ask---they couldn't tell me. I called and checked out major pet stores. They don't have avian lamps. A pet store clerk told me this morning I could just get a reptile lamp but with lower wattage.  I said 'I don't think that is right but thanks anyway" and hung up. (Pet store clerks have given me sooo much wrong advise---good thing I ALWAYS do my own research so I never ended up following them. If I did, Sunny would not be alive today. ) I even decided this morning to buy it online at ALL costs even if it will cost me an arm and a leg to have it shipped here so I went to the "everythingbirdie" site that Solace posted earlier in this thread. I tried to register but they apparently only ship within the USA. Can someone please give me a website link that ships to Canada? I hate to, as my dad puts it, "buy the cow from the other side of the mountain" (Chinese proverb meaning to buy something from the other end of the universe and drag it all the way back home)  and pay for shipping which will cost 3 times as much as the product itself but at this point I'm desperate. I just wanna getta my Sunny a lamp that I know for sure is SAFE!!!! And so I'd rather get a lamp that is ESPECIALLY for birds, not a lamp that's good for everything from amoebas to zeebras. :wacko: I will not wait another 10 years to get the lamp. I'm in a condo and Sunny hardly gets enough sun. Thank you. (and please help! We're desperate. :blush


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Have you checked out Home Depot first? They have FSL lights and all you have to do is put one in a desk lamp. That way you don't pay an arm and a leg.


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## rainfeather (Jan 26, 2012)

Do you need any specific kind or as long as it's FSL it works? How many watts is efficient?

PS where would you put the desk lamp, on top of the cage, next to, etc...?


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

rainfeather said:


> Do you need any specific kind or as long as it's FSL it works? How many watts is efficient?
> 
> PS where would you put the desk lamp, on top of the cage, next to, etc...?


We've answered this question soooo many times! I'll refer you to here, where i drew a picture, put links of the exact products i got, and everything. Made it as easy to understand as possible:

http://talkcockatiels.com/showpost.php?p=249631&postcount=8


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## rainfeather (Jan 26, 2012)

Wow, that is some great personal help! Thank you for that and is 3-5 hours a day beneficial with that bulb?


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

Thanks *roxy clover* and *bjknight*.  Yes, around here we do want you to explain it 3 times to make sure you REALLY mean it don't we??? :lol: So, based on the info you gave us, what I really need to get is just a full-spectrum light bulb that I can screw into any lamp that would take that light bulb. Correct?


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

That'll work! Keep in mind that fsl bulbs do contain mercury so be very careful when handling and using them. Make sure the wattage of the bulb is equal to or less than the wattage capacity of the lamp you're using. The bulbs should not be used in with a dimmer or they can malfunction and become problematic. The bulb emits pretty bright light so i thought i would throw that out there in case someone decided the light was "too" bright and tried to dim it. Don't do it!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

We have as sticky that talks about what to look for in a full spectrum light: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27549

The wattage doesn't matter but there are other properties that are desirable.


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

Thanks for the info. *bjknight93*, you will be very happy to hear that I got exactly what you got at Home Depot  (well the same lamp but not the bulb as they no longer have the EcoSmart brand so I got a Phillips light bulb that is the equivalent of the EcoSmart with the help of a staff there). This will have to do until I can get a "real" bulb that is meant for birds only----after reading the threads posted by *tielfan*, I realized the ideal bulb should have a CRI of 95-98, color temp of 5000-5500K, UVA of 4-5% and UVB not exceeding 0.05%. The one I got has a CRI of 82 only, the color temp of 6500K, a bit high, and has no info on UVA and UVB. I hope to find a better bulb from either FeatherBrite or ZooMed soon, but I really have not seen any products from either company and have not seen any bird lamps or bulbs or anything in the pet stores. For a big city like Toronto, sometimes I feel like I'm living in some remote countryside or something.  Anyway thanks for your help and advice.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I've found that it's basically impossible to find a bulb that meets all the criteria. The FeatherBrite is the closest one that I've found - it has the right color temperature and UV ratings, and has a CRI over 90 (but under 95) which is not perfect but still in the "good for birds" range.


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

tielfan said:


> I've found that it's basically impossible to find a bulb that meets all the criteria. The FeatherBrite is the closest one that I've found - it has the right color temperature and UV ratings, and has a CRI over 90 (but under 95) which is not perfect but still in the "good for birds" range.


You are absolutely correct. That is why, after talking to bjknight93, I have decided to refund the Phillips bulb I got (which is at 6000K---not within the recommended 5000k-5500k range) and I ordered the FeatherBrite bulb from their website this morning. :thumbu: Hopefully it will come soon and that it would fit the clamp lamp I bought. I just feel better getting a bulb that is MEANT for birds. As my father always says, always go to a specialist if you want the job done right and not someone who just does it "on the side".


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The Feather Brite will fit in any fixture that takes an ordinary screw-in bulb, and looks like a typical CFL bulb. I bought a cheap brooder lamp and turned it into a swag lamp with the Feather Brite bulb in it. It's hung kind of high - the UVB controversy drives me crazy so I've officially given up on even trying to provide it with lighting, and am just going for the UVA. The brooder lamp has a bail which I covered with bird netting to make sure the tiels couldn't get near the bulb:


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

Guess what happened. I lost my beautiful clamp light that I bought only yesterday from Home Depot meant for my much-anticipated FeatherBrite bulb.   I was at my BF's last night and I put the lamp (and my lunch for work today---leftovers from my FIRST cannelloni which was a success!) in a small black canvas bag. I've been feeling sick since last night and became very sick this morning (and am still sick)  so I guess I must have left it on the bus or dropped it on the street on my way to work this morning (although I have absolutely NO recollection of ever having taken the bag). :blink: I called my BF to ask if I left it there but he searched his entire house and said it certainly was not there. So I lost my lamp AND my delicious cannelloni lunch. The lamp was very cheap, around $12, but my pride is hurt :blush: and I just feel silly because I'm usually very very careful with my stuff precisely because I hate losing things!!! But I guess when I'm sick then I can't help it. Oh well. Will go back to Home Depot later to get another lamp. :blush:


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## cloudykitty (Feb 21, 2012)

I have a question based on all the light talk? I have a Marineland natural daylight lamp for the use of a fish tank Can I use this light on top of my bird cage until I can afford to buy a bird one? Is it the same type of lamp used for birds?? It is too cold out to let pebbles be outside..


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

I don't think it would be the same...do you have the stats on the light? If they don't match the ones tielfan posted in a previous post then I wouldn't use it.


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

cloudykitty said:


> I have a question based on all the light talk? I have a Marineland natural daylight lamp for the use of a fish tank Can I use this light on top of my bird cage until I can afford to buy a bird one? Is it the same type of lamp used for birds?? It is too cold out to let pebbles be outside..


Hi cloudykitty.  Is it best *NOT* to use a lamp meant for fish or reptiles and no, it is *NOT* the same type of lamp used for birds!  A pet store staff recently advised me I could just get a reptile lamp but get a lower-wattage bulb which is NOT true so always do your own research.

If you are bored and have nothing else to do,  you can read all the threads that Tielfan posted earlier with articles written by avian doctors specifically on lighting and birds. But I will gladly sum it up for you here that the ideal bulb, based on that article, should have the following characteristics:

CRI: 95-98
Colour Temperature: 5000k - 5500 k (5000k is the perfect temp.)
UVA: 4-5%
UVB: 0.05%

It is okay to get a bulb that is meant for humans but only true "bird" bulbs would hit all these things at the right ranges so I suggest you might as well get one meant for birds from a reputable company, namely, the *FeatherBrite 15W Full Spectrum Bulb ($22.99)* from www.featherbrite.com. Then just get your own lamp for the bulb, such as the one bjknight93 got (see bjknight93's earlier post). I just bought the bulb myself. I'm in Canada, and all in all it only cost me $23.41 including shipping and everything. :thumbu: So I think it's worth spending the extra $10, considering how much we are spending on our birds and all that we do for them.  My theory is, I would rather spend a bit of money now to keep Sunny healthy and happy rather than try and save a few bucks and have her get sick, then have to take her to the vet and end up paying hundreds and even thousands.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I think we all need to keep in mind that nothing has really been proven about FS lighting and birds. The recommendations seem like good guidelines but they aren't carved in stone, and some of the other alternatives might be an improvement over ordinary lighting even if they aren't ideal.

Aquarium lights aren't recommended for birds but I don't know of any evidence that they're actually harmful. They have a color temperature of about 6000K which looks like a cooler, more northern type of light to those of us who don't live underwater. I think I've heard someone say they used aquarium lights with good results but I can't find the reference so don't rely on my memory.

Do NOT use reptile bulbs with 10.0 UVB - that's definitely unsafe for birds. The reptile bulbs with 5.0 UVB might be OK but it's not something that I would personally want to gamble on, and I don't really feel comfortable with anything but a bulb made for birds. The thread at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27549 has lots of information about FS lighting.


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