# A Cuttle bone is NOT enough calcium



## atvchick95

Found this while i was searching for something else 

This might just end up being a cause of some of my past issues when breeding 

I thought supplying a just cuttle bone was ENOUGH calcium

BUT according to this website it isn't



> Cuttlefish bone is often sold in pet stores as a calcium source for birds, *but the calcium it contains is not easily absorbed by birds. It makes a good chewing/shredding toy for the birds, but that's about it*. If your bird only has a cuttlefish bone in their cage for the calcium, it is important that you supplement with other calcium sources, such as boiled eggshells and a more effective calcium and vitamin D3 supplement



http://www.tailfeathersnetwork.com/b.../nutrition.php


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## tielfan

I don't know where I read it, but I've seen someone say that cuttlebone's moderate absorption is a good thing because it makes it harder to overdose on calcium. The liquid calcium supplements absorb very very well which can cause problems if you overdo it. I've also seen people object to eggshells because once again, the calcium isn't that easy to absorb, and they may contain lead which is all too easy to absorb.


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## sweetrsue

That's why I always suggest a mineral block too. Both is a good idea. I also feed them quinoa (a grain high in calcium) and many greens are good sources. You a right a cuttle bone alone isn't enough. The sad thing is many people don't even provide that! It is one of the bare minimum requirements.


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## Lola's_mommy

I use a calcium supplement with Lola, being that she suffered prolapse from complications with trying to lay soft shelled eggs, but I only add it to her water about once a week. The bottle says a couple of times per week but I play it on the soft side. She also has a mineral block and cuttlebone but doesn't give them much attention.


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## atvchick95

I use 2 n 1 mineral block on the outside cuttle bone on the inside 

they use both that way If I only use a mineral block and cuttle bone separate they don't touch the mineral block


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## Renae

Call me stupid, but my birds get, Cuttlefish Bone, and Cuttle Bone, but what's the difference?

They have the mineral block too, but they don't get all three at once, so they'll have the Cuttlefish Bone or Cuttle Bone, and a mineral block.

So would adding Soluble Vitamin supplement plus the other stuff I give them be too much?

Edit: And out of curiosity.. would it be a bad thing if one of your 'tiels was eating the Cuttle Bone/Cuttle Fish/Mineral Block ALL the time?


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## atvchick95

Solace. said:


> Call me stupid, but my birds get, Cuttlefish Bone, and Cuttle Bone, but what's the difference?
> 
> They have the mineral block too, but they don't get all three at once, so they'll have the Cuttlefish Bone or Cuttle Bone, and a mineral block.
> 
> So would adding Soluble Vitamin supplement plus the other stuff I give them be too much?
> 
> Edit: And out of curiosity.. would it be a bad thing if one of your 'tiels was eating the Cuttle Bone/Cuttle Fish/Mineral Block ALL the time?



I've always been under the impression a cuttle bone and cuttle fish was the same thing just different countries call them different things 

Cuttle bone:











and they are supposed to have a cuttle bone and mineral block offered at all times but what this page is saying is 

the calcium it contains is not easily absorbed by birds

Meaning they don't easily intake the calcium from it - So it works better as a toy then a source of calcium


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## Renae

Then doesn't that defeat the purpose of it? 

I forgot until I just seen the photo of the Mineral Block that you posted in the other thread that it's a Mineral Block an Cuttle Bone. 

If they're not able to easily intake the calcium, then it's pointless. So what we're giving them is more of a chew toy then what it's really supposed to be. 

Hmm. That's interesting, but that being in words, you can't really prove if it is or isn't true.. (not saying it's crap.. but you aren't to know, right?)

I found this:

Calcium, or much more often a lack of it, causes more problems in bird keeping than any other nutrient. Yet most of people still believe that cuttlefish bone is a great source of this mineral. The reason for this is that many people still do not recognize the symptoms of calcium deficiency in their birds. This article will address the extent of the problem, the symptoms and the solutions.

Since vitamin D is involved in calcium absorption and management it is hardly surprising that we see so many problems related to this mineral. An interesting aside on these figures is that about half of these birds were being fed pelleted diets. So about 96% of the birds being fed pellets were not getting enough to ensure their calcium requirements were met. This simply highlights that owners dilute pellets in the diet with more palatable seeds, fresh foods and human foods. And the fundamentals of the diet suffers!

Many breeders will be thinking that they have no problems because their birds have ad lib access to cuttlebone or they get oyster shell grit or crushed egg shells or chicken bones. They would be wrong! All of these things contain large quantities of calcium but the calcium is very difficult to extract. All the animals making these things use calcium for bone or shell because it is very difficult to dissolve. If bones were a good source of calcium owls would not waste it by expelling them in their pellets!

Very few wild birds get their calcium from mineral sources like these. Instead they eat green sappy seeds or other vegetable products that contain calcium in forms that are far easier to absorb. Unfortunately dry seeds are not a good source of such 'chelates' of calcium.

Modern liquid calcium products mimic this natural approach. Firstly the calcium is already dissolved – very difficult with limestone or cuttlebone. Secondly the calcium is linked to a molecule the gut actually absorbs naturally – most commonly a sugar molecule. The calcium is absorbed along with the sugar.

Because these modern products have such good bio-availability the quantities of calcium the bird actually eats is far less than the normal 'recommended daily dose'. But they work spectacularly well. In fact the way we use these products most effectively is to give them less frequently rather than just in smaller quantities. For most birds once a week is fine. For eclectus and grey parrots we recommend twice a week and for breeding birds we suggest up to five days a week. 


There's more but it's far too long, what this person is pretty much saying (not just in this part but like I said there's more) not to give Cuttle Bone to any bird and replace it with a Supplement.


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## atvchick95

that is true 

but so far I've had at 2 different people say its true that just a cuttle bone isn't enough calcium they need to get calcium from other places as well 

But since mine get a lot of fresh greens, and veggies with calcium and their Pellets have a lot of different types of calcium 

I'm afraid to use any sort of Supplement of calcium 

because too much calcium can be just as deadly as Not enough


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## tielfan

> And out of curiosity.. would it be a bad thing if one of your 'tiels was eating the Cuttle Bone/Cuttle Fish/Mineral Block ALL the time?


If they're shredding it without eating it because it's fun to tear stuff up there's no harm done, it's just a hobby. It's not a good sign if they're actually eating large amounts - they could be overdosing, or trying to compensate for a deficiency. If the tiel is a hen she might be getting ready to lay eggs.


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## Lola's_mommy

My thought is if your tiel is eating plenty of greens, for example, broccoli is a great source of calcium, then no supplementation would be needed. For birds that don't eat veggies, as mine does not yet, my thought would be to supplement cautiously to ensure they are getting the necessary amount of calcium.


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## athalia

well i have a calcium supplement from "BAXTER LABORATORY"..its stated "3 drops to a 30ml cup of drinking water.Make it the only source of drinking water"
hmm basically im confused rite now...
so am i to give it everyday or once a week?!!
thanx!!!


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## Lola's_mommy

athalia said:


> well i have a calcium supplement from "BAXTER LABORATORY"..its stated "3 drops to a 30ml cup of drinking water.Make it the only source of drinking water"
> hmm basically im confused rite now...
> so am i to give it everyday or once a week?!!
> thanx!!!


My calcium supplement states on the bottle to only feed a couple of times a week. So with water changes, she basically only gets it a day or two a week. It is much more easily absorbed so they don't need as much. I think everyday would be too much but your source should state for you one way or the other. Guessing, to be on the safe side, only a couple of times of week, more if your birds are breeding.


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## sweetrsue

Full spectrum light also helps them to absorb calcium.


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## tielfan

> Guessing, to be on the safe side, only a couple of times of week, more if your birds are breeding.


My liquid calcium supplement says to give it once or twice a week under ordinary circumstances, and five times a week if the birds are breeding.


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## athalia

Lola's_mommy said:


> My calcium supplement states on the bottle to only feed a couple of times a week. So with water changes, she basically only gets it a day or two a week. It is much more easily absorbed so they don't need as much. I think everyday would be too much but your source should state for you one way or the other. Guessing, to be on the safe side, only a couple of times of week, more if your birds are breeding.


thanx lola...this "Calcium thread" do concern me..


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## srtiels

This link is also helpful: http://www.talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=19866


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## Sunshine2009

Hmm I have cuttlebone and mineral block, I add vitamin D drops to thier water and they eat NutriBird G14. Would that be enough or what else can I provide? I put them in the sunlight but it isn't always sunny here so I'm looking into a full spectrum light for them. They refuse to eat veggies (I try daily though) but their bird food, NutriBird (I live in Europe) they say is the best for them as it has a lot of veggies and fruit mashed into the pellets and a total source of nutrition...is that right?


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