# To Produce Heavy Pied Chicks



## Gops1979 (Aug 20, 2009)

Hi All..

I have an albino hen.. I want to have heavy pied chicks which is very rare in our state.. I want chicks like the one shown in this link.. http://www.genesisaviaries.com/aphrodite2.jpg... Can any of you plz suggest me what kind of cock can be useful in producing heavy pied chicks ??


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

It will take time (2-3 yrs) and effort.

When I started breeding I had went from normals split to pied to nice heavy symetrical pieds to clear pieds...on 8 years. Clear and heavy pieds averaged 125 gr...thus I also build up size, quaolity, in addition to markings.

I'm not sure if you are looking for the easy route, or want to develope a nice line of your own.

The easy route is to seek out either a 100% clear pied, or a very symetrical and very heavy pied, of good substance, and good confirmation. Also seek out a normal grey that is not split to anything, especially not split to pied. Pair the pied and the normal together and hold back all babies. They will be split to the patern type of pied the pied parent was. 

Now the hard part...the waiting...For the next generation seek out a nice symetrical _lightly _pied bird and pair it with the split to pied. It is important that the light pied be symetrical in order for this type of pattern to be better passed along. Keep your nicest sized babies, whether visual or split. From here on out when breeding you should consistantly get nice pieds. Also try to breed more quality splits to pair with the nice visuals. Heavy pieds can rapidly go backwards in size and quality if too many gnerations of visual to visual are bred.


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Oh...and I noticed you first sentance. The albino will contribute nothing to heavy pieds.


----------



## Tony's Tiels (May 21, 2009)

I keep wondering why you recomend breeding to greys....as in 
isn't important that the grey be of good conformation & size,
or will any grey be sufficient ?


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> I have an albino hen..


To be visual pied a chick has to get the pied gene from both parents. So both parents have to be at least split pied. If both parents are split you can expect about 25% pied chicks. If one parent is split and the other is full pied that goes up to 50%, and if both are full pied it's 100%. 

If one or both don't have the pied gene you'll get zero pied chicks. Do you know if your hen has any pied genes?


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

First off, finding normal greys that have absolutely no splits is as rare as hens teeth...LOL I'm working on that now, and over the next few years.

OK...a simple explanation of what I am trying to get across. If you have a plain grey cockatiel with NO splits you are _*starting with a clean slate*_. There are no other color patterns or mutations that can have an impact on another color mutation. Since you are starting with a clean slate whatever you breed that grey to will repriduce ONLY that particular mutatation/pattern it is split to. if it was a beautiful lacey golden pearl then the chances are extremely high that this split will produce similar offspring. With pieds the patterns are random, and harder to reproduce exactly each time...thus it is a couple of generations for desired results...BUT intially you have to start with a clean slate to get a bird to carry that specific color, or pattern, or gene. This also works in regards to breeding for crest, size, tail lengths etc.



Tony's Tiels said:


> I keep wondering why you recomend breeding to greys....as in
> isn't important that the grey be of good conformation & size,
> or will any grey be sufficient ?


----------



## Tony's Tiels (May 21, 2009)

Thank You SR, I am understanding more...I think....I am left wondering, do you want the Grey to be a 'blank slate' to prevent surprises, or increase quality, or ?

I guess I am still a bit confused...so the 'Blank Grey' should have the desired qualities that needs improving in the color mutation you are improving, correct ?


----------



## silverflower (Aug 15, 2009)

Tony's Tiels said:


> Thank You SR, I am understanding more...I think....I am left wondering, do you want the Grey to be a 'blank slate' to prevent surprises, or increase quality, or ?
> 
> I guess I am still a bit confused...so the 'Blank Grey' should have the desired qualities that needs improving in the color mutation you are improving, correct ?


I think also that "blank greys" are generally bigger anyways, because they don't have any mutations to bring down the size. 

Also from what I understood, is that different mutations cause different patterns. So say you have a nice symetrical pied, and you pair it with a pearl, the pearling may mess with the symetry, so when you pair that offspring to another symetrical pied, you may not get the results you wanted. Where as is you paired it with a grey to begin with, there would not have been any mutations to get in the way of what you are trying to accomplish.

Also say you paired that original nice pied with a split to pied, and that split has no symetry you would be working backwords, and the offspring will not give you what you are trying to produce.

Sorry if I only made the confusion worse.


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Tony...OK...think of the plain grey as a piece of blank paper. Run it thru the photo copier and you will get the same image. That is what would be a similar practice by using a plain grey to create a split from the bird you want to later reproduce.

And Silverflower sumed it up very nicely.


----------



## Tony's Tiels (May 21, 2009)

Okay, Got it ! 
Thank You both

I have yet to see in person a 'blank slate' grey... up here anyway, they are ussually a visual split to pied & who knows what else....

But, we have some very nice quality birds anyway, so it seems to be working well.
I just can't help trying to learn everything possible 

And hopefully I did not upset the thread starter (or hijack the thread)


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I think a normal grey with *no splits* is one of the hardest birds to find. And if you can breed or find them they are 'keepers'  They are invalable to a serious breeder that want to work with color or specific traits.

Forunitely I have several lines of dominant silvers (DS). it is a mutation that if their offspring are not visual they can not be splits. I pair my DS with normal greys or plain normal grey WF. This way I am doing a couple of things. Finding out what splits are in the birds. And since the DS is a dominant mutation, I do not have to worry that any will be split to the DS. So, if no other splits come up I can *assume *that any normal or normal WF babies are true to what they visually are. I am holding back about 24 from several pairs and I'll test breed them next year to confirm that they are not carrying any splits.


----------



## CindyM (Jun 10, 2008)

I have a pair of whiteface pied the male is split to pearl and lutino. The female is just pied. I get the heavy pied from them.


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Then one of your birds has heavy pied in it's background.


----------

