# Elvis & Georgia: 4 weeks into training



## caterpillar (Oct 14, 2013)

First of all, I want to thank everyone here for all their advice in our attempts to train the world's meanest, most ill-behaved cockatiels. We've had some progress, some setbacks, etc...but I think ultimately it's going well.

So, first, THE GOOD THINGS...

-- Elvis and Georgia have calmed down A LOT. Now they are screaming much less and when they do, we usually know why. It's either that they want food, they want us to cover their cage so they can go to sleep, they hear a wild bird outside (there is one in particular, I believe a crow, whom Elvis responds to with screams), or they are screaming because we were gone and now we are coming back home. I don't think they do the last kind of screaming out of any kind of attachment to us... mostly it seems to be out of sensing that someone is coming and they want to know what's up. I also think they are kicking less seed and feathers on the floor, something they used to do a lot and it annoyed us to no end.

-- Some things we did that I think have calmed them down: Longer nights. Taking away the mirror. Getting them a playgym so that they can have out-of-cage time during the day.

-- They are a little bit more mobile. They have figured out that if they are on their playgym (which we put on top of the cage) they can climb down it and down the cage to get back into the cage door for their food and water. And then sometimes they will go back up to the playgym. They still do not leave the cage/playgym at all when they are out of their cage, and I doubt they will ever fly to us voluntarily (nor do they really fly at all unless they are freaking out) but the fact that they are moving around a little bit more is promising.

-- They are eating a broader variety of foods (we gave them popcorn the other day, they LOVE millet spray, and we are giving them fresh vegetables) and that seems to make them happier. There is a lot more beak grinding going on!!!

And now for THE NOT-SO-GOOD THINGS...

-- They are still cage-bound. Georgia in particular will fly straight back to the cage whenever she is removed, even though she steps up about 80% of the time. (Elvis is also at about 80%.) If I turn around immediately so that she cannot see the cage, she will not fly away.

-- They are still very hostile towards fingers, especially Georgia. If a finger is pointed at her, even from a foot away, she will stick out her neck and start making the squealing pig noise.

-- After a few days of whistling melodically and "talking" to me through song, Elvis has just totally stopped whistling. We're monitoring him closely to make sure he isn't sick, but someone hinted he might just be molting. Still, this is a big disappointment since we heard that a wider range of vocalizations means they are starting to trust us. It bums us out 

-- This isn't a particular problem, but they couldn't stand most of the toys we got them. The shreddable "party ball" got zero attention, and the swing terrified them. Elvis does like the ladder, though, and they seem to really like the playgym even if their favorite thing to do is to tear up the fake plants on it.

-- Elvis is OK with having his back touched (though we know that isn't good for them) but not his head. Georgia refuses to be touched at all. They will both bite HARD (like breaking the skin hard) if this happens.

So in conclusion, we now have notably less annoying and less hostile birds, but they still are hardly friendly and given Elvis' history of a deeply abrasive personality we are not sure they ever will be friendly. I'm really jealous of everyone here who has friendly tiels who like head scratches and cuddles, and it is really tempting to want to get a third tiel from a good breeder so that it will actually bond with us. We want to have a friendly tiel but we also don't want to push Elvis and Georgia out of a comfort zone that they will never naturally be able to exit. 

I also do not want them mating (Elvis is Georgia's father but that doesn't stop him) and we may have to separate them entirely as a result so a third tiel who is less of a bully could be a good companion for Georgia. Elvis is much less mean than he used to be and recently I have not seen him try to force himself on her, but he still pecks at her and this may get problematic when spring approaches.

So yeah there is a lot for us still to figure out but at least we are making some progress? I think?


----------



## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I think you are making great progress. You should really be proud. Tiels come along at their own pace and you just have to be patient and go with it. My rehomed tiel would not leave the room his cage was in for like the first 6-8 weeks we had him. He would fly back to his cage if you tried to take him out of the room. I thought I would never get to sit on the couch and watch TV with him, etc. Now, he boldly explores the whole house and loves nothing more than to cuddle with me at night and watch TV (well he doesn't really watch it....) But there was a time I never thought that would happen. So, I think your tiels are doing really well in a pretty short period of time.


----------



## blueybluesky (Jul 9, 2013)

I think you are making great progress to, it doesn't matter how small it is atleast they are moving forward 
By the way they are both gorgeous in your siggy


----------



## Peaches&Me (Oct 30, 2013)

Yes I agree, your making great progress 
As we all know it's time & patience & not forcing them into doing something they don't want to do, go at their pace, this way they will learn to trust you & once you have their trust your home free 
Congratulations on your progress & good luck moving forward even further


----------



## scootergirl762 (Aug 27, 2013)

I think you're making wonderful progress. Don't be discouraged by the little set backs - 4 weeks is not that long. And you're working with two tiels. And if I remember correctly, you've had them for awhile, so 4 weeks isn't really long in the big scope of things. I know some things are disappointing, like Elvis not singing - but I've never heard of a bird that stopped singing altogether - I think he may be starting a molt, or readjusting to his new situation in your home. Time is your friend  As far as toys - keep offering them. Something they don't like or care for today, can be a favorite tomorrow. Remember that this is all new to them, so it's like they are starting over. They have a lot to learn from what they've had in the past - as much of a change as your making, they also have to adjust - even though all that you're doing is fabulous - they don't know it as much as see it as change. I wouldn't introduce a third bird into the mix quite this soon. And if Elvis doesn't calm down, or is too hormonal, a separate cage right now can be helpful - it doesn't have to be permanent and you'd have that spare cage for a third bird down the line sometime. Keep on with what you're doing - you must feel so different about them now - they've really come such a long way in such a short time! Be proud!


----------



## caterpillar (Oct 14, 2013)

Thanks for the advice everyone. There are quite a few feathers at the bottom of the cage right now so I think Elvis may be molting.

Here he is saying hello to everyone...


----------



## scootergirl762 (Aug 27, 2013)

caterpillar said:


> Thanks for the advice everyone. There are quite a few feathers at the bottom of the cage right now so I think Elvis may be molting.
> 
> Here he is saying hello to everyone...


What a cutie - and that would explain his radio silence


----------



## caterpillar (Oct 14, 2013)

OMG they're definitely both molting! Georgia is sitting on me right now and it's like... feathers everywhere!!!!


----------



## scootergirl762 (Aug 27, 2013)

caterpillar said:


> OMG they're definitely both molting! Georgia is sitting on me right now and it's like... feathers everywhere!!!!


Oh boy! Two at one time! At least now you know what's going on and if there is a little backsliding into old behaviors, you'll now why.


----------



## caterpillar (Oct 14, 2013)

Ugh... I am SO DEPRESSED right now. Literally the same day that I posted their "4-week update," Elvis and Georgia took a huge turn for the worse. They started screaming more. They bit harder. And this afternoon Elvis started attacking Georgia. We think they are molting but we aren't sure (i thought they were for sure but my BF says there aren't enough feathers in the cage). We are trying SO HARD but I am almost at the end of my rope and about to give them up to a sanctuary.

We clipped them today, in part because Elvis is a manipulative bully and he's infinitely meaner if he's flighted (clipping has never made them bond with us more though) and we had been thinking of clipping them for a while but him biting Georgia, and also when he crashed into the bed earlier and almost fell behind the headboard (that's what really worried me), was the last straw. They are finally calming down over getting clipped, are stepping up and eating out of my hand again, etc. and now they are sitting in their cage grinding their beaks.

I know you all say that all tiels can have wonderful personalities but I really think Elvis is a sociopath. If he manages to get to a spot in the room that is higher than humans, he will taunt and tease us and refuse to come down because he thinks he has some kind of dominion over us from the height. He nearly assaulted our old female tiel to death and she looked so much in pain when he forced her to mate (she CLEARLY did not want it, and then when they bred and produced Georgia neither of them would raise her) that we felt we had to grab him and separate them. My BF thinks he should be euthanized. I want to give him a chance so badly, and sometimes he seems like he is making progress, but then he has these horrible episodes where I really wonder if he is beyond help.

This forum makes me so sad sometimes because you all have such sweet friendly tiels who beg for scritches and cuddle and preen you. I have THE WORST LITTLE MONSTERS and I don't think they can ever change. I know they have been through a lot but part of that is because Elvis was so nasty to begin with that no one ever wanted to be nice to him.

I am just so sad over this.


----------



## scootergirl762 (Aug 27, 2013)

caterpillar said:


> Ugh... I am SO DEPRESSED right now. Literally the same day that I posted their "4-week update," Elvis and Georgia took a huge turn for the worse. They started screaming more. They bit harder. And this afternoon Elvis started attacking Georgia. We think they are molting but we aren't sure (i thought they were for sure but my BF says there aren't enough feathers in the cage). We are trying SO HARD but I am almost at the end of my rope and about to give them up to a sanctuary.
> 
> We clipped them today, in part because Elvis is a manipulative bully and he's infinitely meaner if he's flighted (clipping has never made them bond with us more though) and we had been thinking of clipping them for a while but him biting Georgia, and also when he crashed into the bed earlier and almost fell behind the headboard (that's what really worried me), was the last straw. They are finally calming down over getting clipped, are stepping up and eating out of my hand again, etc. and now they are sitting in their cage grinding their beaks.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry you're so sad. From what you said earlier, it does sound like they are both molting. And, in my opinion, if Elvis is that agressive, I think you did the right thing in clipping his wings. Did you think anymore about putting them in separate cages? I know its very frustrating to not have the lovely dovey tiel that you want - I don't either - Stewie is hot and cold and Emme is standoffish. They are not cuddlers and I don't know that they ever will be. But I can take a lot of enjoyment in the small progress we've made and I hope more will come. I know that is hard for you right now, because you've done so much to change what had been going on before. Give yourself a little bit of a break. Be kind to yourself, you've done a lot to move toward giving them a better life. It may be that you might want to rehome Elvis. And keep Georgia. Without him around, she may respond to you better. I'm not sure what the answer is. Do you have a friend that might take Elvis for a week or two to see how that might work? Hang in there - it's tough and has a lot of ups and downs and you may not be able to see it - but I know I've seen such remarkable progress from your posts.


----------



## caterpillar (Oct 14, 2013)

scootergirl762 said:


> I'm so sorry you're so sad. From what you said earlier, it does sound like they are both molting. And, in my opinion, if Elvis is that agressive, I think you did the right thing in clipping his wings. Did you think anymore about putting them in separate cages? I know its very frustrating to not have the lovely dovey tiel that you want - I don't either - Stewie is hot and cold and Emme is standoffish. They are not cuddlers and I don't know that they ever will be. But I can take a lot of enjoyment in the small progress we've made and I hope more will come. I know that is hard for you right now, because you've done so much to change what had been going on before. Give yourself a little bit of a break. Be kind to yourself, you've done a lot to move toward giving them a better life. It may be that you might want to rehome Elvis. And keep Georgia. Without him around, she may respond to you better. I'm not sure what the answer is. Do you have a friend that might take Elvis for a week or two to see how that might work? Hang in there - it's tough and has a lot of ups and downs and you may not be able to see it - but I know I've seen such remarkable progress from your posts.


But your tiels sound so sweet and wacky!! I get so jealous when I read your posts 

I trust your opinion about molting more than I trust my BF's opinion -- he is the BF of "That one is called a Spanish Cockatiel" fame after all -- so I really hope that molting is the reason why they have been so difficult the past few days. Georgia was eliminating little feathers everywhere after all.

I don't think anyone we know would be willing to "borrow" Elvis but we would consider getting another cage for him if things stay bad when the molt is over. The problem is that there is nowhere in the apartment where he and Georgia would not be able to hear one another and I think that would traumatize Georgia because she has a weird attachment to him even though they are not bonded. I think she just hates to be alone. Thankfully he has never picked on her as badly as he picked on Pineapple.

It just makes me sad that within a week of "talking" to him more he was whistling, singing (we were on the verge of teaching him the Super Mario theme) and even imitating Kitty's meow. And then it just stopped entirely and I feel like there is no hope


----------



## scootergirl762 (Aug 27, 2013)

Lol, they are sweet and wacky...and moody and hissy. I haven't been able to scatch Stewies head for a few days....i'll be taking him into another room periodically to spend some time one on one. I know you are discouraged, but its only been a month. For every month your trying to undo what happened before....you're really just getting started, right? Sometimes, i have tomremind myself that in the Grand Scheme of things...this is the infancy of my relationship,with my birds...we are just getting started. Sure some members have fabulous starts with their birds, but others don't and thats ok. Going forward is really all we can do,,right? You're doing great, don't forget that! There is always hope. Are they losing a lot of feathers....do you see them on the bottom of the cage? I think from what i remember, there are enough feathers that you sort of can't doubt its a molt. Maybe another member can chime in on that.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

caterpillar said:


> Ugh... I am SO DEPRESSED right now. Literally the same day that I posted their "4-week update," Elvis and Georgia took a huge turn for the worse. They started screaming more. They bit harder. And this afternoon Elvis started attacking Georgia. We think they are molting but we aren't sure (i thought they were for sure but my BF says there aren't enough feathers in the cage). We are trying SO HARD but I am almost at the end of my rope and about to give them up to a sanctuary.
> 
> We clipped them today, in part because Elvis is a manipulative bully and he's infinitely meaner if he's flighted (clipping has never made them bond with us more though) and we had been thinking of clipping them for a while but him biting Georgia, and also when he crashed into the bed earlier and almost fell behind the headboard (that's what really worried me), was the last straw. They are finally calming down over getting clipped, are stepping up and eating out of my hand again, etc. and now they are sitting in their cage grinding their beaks.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, that's rough. 
As for whether or not they can ever change, I believe they have the potential but it's possible that too much damage has been done and they may never fully trust you. I'm not saying you should give up, but if you can't make them into tame sweet trusting birds -- would a sanctuary be so bad? They could be themselves there.

I wonder if clipping Elvis's wings will really do anything to protect Gabby. I suspect not, since they live together and she isn't flighted anymore either. I hope it won't backfire and make him even angrier and "meaner."


----------



## caterpillar (Oct 14, 2013)

moonchild said:


> I'm sorry, that's rough.
> As for whether or not they can ever change, I believe they have the potential but it's possible that too much damage has been done and they may never fully trust you. I'm not saying you should give up, but if you can't make them into tame sweet trusting birds -- would a sanctuary be so bad? They could be themselves there.
> 
> I wonder if clipping Elvis's wings will really do anything to protect Gabby. I suspect not, since they live together and she isn't flighted anymore either. I hope it won't backfire and make him even angrier and "meaner."


Elvis had started to ramp up picking on Georgia as soon as they were flighted again, so I don't think being clipped will make him worse. Also, Georgia fights back, which is VERY much unlike the other female tiel he used to pick on.

If this worse behavior continues we will have no choice but to cage them separately, which I was really hoping not to do because of how much Georgia hates to be alone. Worst case scenario there is a sanctuary about 3 hours away where we could take one or both of them.

I desperately don't want to give up but they spent so many years being ignored and harshly disciplined by a houseful of barely post-adolescent boys, and they were so horrible when I first met them that I really thought you were supposed to punish them by flicking their beaks!! I really hope they are not beyond changing but it was so upsetting for them to make wonderful progress and then seem to totally forget it all.


----------



## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Oops, sorry -- don't know why I called Georgia "Gabby." Getting members' birds' names mixed up. Time for more coffee I guess.

Those poor babies.  I want to go flick those stupid boys in the face and see how they like it! I wish I had more advice for you. Will try to think on it.


----------



## caterpillar (Oct 14, 2013)

moonchild said:


> Oops, sorry -- don't know why I called Georgia "Gabby." Getting members' birds' names mixed up. Time for more coffee I guess.
> 
> Those poor babies.  I want to go flick those stupid boys in the face and see how they like it! I wish I had more advice for you. Will try to think on it.


She has been rather gabby today so it's fitting 

Thanks so much to everyone. Seriously. This has been so difficult and I feel bad for blabbing about our cockatiel issues all over the forums since i can imagine i'm generating a lot of negative energy!!! But I don't know who else to ask. Most people I know think I was making a huge mistake just dating a guy with pet birds in the first place because "birds are weird"

...and hence no one in my life is really much help with the unruly tiels!!!!


----------



## blueybluesky (Jul 9, 2013)

When my tiels molt it's unmistakeable I find heaps of tiny feathers scattered on the cage floor and in their water dishes I also just see them fall off them. Dusty gets angry when he molts to, hisses at me alot more even if I'm just walking past his cage and Storm is going through a molt I think it's him anyway, he hasn't been doing his usual singing for a while. Are you sure that seperating them wont help more, they might find it easier if you work with them one on one and they don't have the distraction of the others.
Don't give up just yet though it could get better


----------



## 22caity22 (Oct 3, 2013)

I am certainly no expert and just pulling on my knowledge with horses, it sounds as though Elvis may be happier as either an aviary bird where he has lots of space or just an ornament bird (I know that term holds a lot of sourness but I don't know how else to describe it, basically an untame bird, fully cared for, just left to himself in a nice big cage). Elvis sounds unusually unkind to other birds is all and may be preventing Georgia from thriving. Either way, I think seperating them into different cages sounds like a good idea, it might help Georgia. Have the cages close but not so Elvis can peck her.

It must seem so hard at the moment, I've a mare that was so hard to befriend, she was so afraid, but even on the worst of days, remember it gets better. There will be good and bad ddays - like in any relationship! I don't think you should give up on Georgia, I couldn't say with Elvis, he may simply not be a people bird! If you do give up Elvis, what I would do is spend another month or two working with Georgia alone before getting another, hand tame, tiel. In part for yourself, in part for Georgia. After my mare had the foal she was pregnant with, the foal was like my refuge. Bella was flighty and spiteful but the foal loved me, she was the cuddly horse I'd always wanted. And it was really good to help encourage me and to show Bella that I'm not scary. 
I hope that made sense! I will have a think about Elvis and maybe see if any of my research applies to his situation just try not to bite off more than you can chew. It can't be easy taming aggressive tiels as a first time owner! You're doing amazing!!!!


----------



## caterpillar (Oct 14, 2013)

Thanks everybody! I have probably been more stressed out than usual because I am about to leave for a few weeks and so the tiels are going to be in my BF's care. I have left him VERY clear instructions about making sure they get enough fresh veggies and have over 12 hours of "night time" (he has been getting lecture after lecture from me over the past month) but the fact that they have been so much worse for the past few days really worries me.

HOWEVER I do think they are molting! And so fingers crossed I will come home to happy birds who will meow for me again


----------



## scootergirl762 (Aug 27, 2013)

caterpillar said:


> Thanks everybody! I have probably been more stressed out than usual because I am about to leave for a few weeks and so the tiels are going to be in my BF's care. I have left him VERY clear instructions about making sure they get enough fresh veggies and have over 12 hours of "night time" (he has been getting lecture after lecture from me over the past month) but the fact that they have been so much worse for the past few days really worries me.
> 
> HOWEVER I do think they are molting! And so fingers crossed I will come home to happy birds who will meow for me again


LOL, good that you left him instructions - and I'm sure he knows what NOT to do anymore  Have a good trip!


----------



## caterpillar (Oct 14, 2013)

scootergirl762 said:


> LOL, good that you left him instructions - and I'm sure he knows what NOT to do anymore  Have a good trip!


Thank you! I will miss you all and your cheerful pics of tiels


----------

