# Really, PETA, Really?



## yokobirdie (Jul 9, 2014)

Ugh. PETA. _*long, exasperated sigh* _This makes no sense, well, it makes sense, but still! 
*"All caged birds have either been captured in the wild or bred in captivity. Birds are smuggled into the U.S. more frequently than any other type of animal. Many birds are force-fed and have their wings clipped and their beaks taped shut before being crammed into anything from a spare tire to carry-on luggage. It’s not unusual for 80 percent of the birds in a smuggled shipment to die.

Birds who are bred in captivity don’t fare much better. Because birds older than 8 to 10 weeks don’t sell well at pet shops, they are kept for breeding and condemned to small cages with virtually no human contact for the remainder of their lives.

Life in captivity is frequently a death sentence for birds, who are often lonely and malnourished and suffer from the stress of confinement. Birds are meant to fly and be with others of their own kind in a natural environment. In the wild, these beautiful beings are never alone, and if they are separated from their flock even for a moment, they call wildly to their flockmates. These social animals preen one another, fly together, play, and share egg-incubation duties. Many species of birds mate for life and share parenting tasks. In the wild, most birds will not take a second mate if they lose their first.

Confinement causes birds to have temper tantrums and mood swings. The Los Angeles Times reported that parrots “quickly become frustrated ‘perch potatoes’ in captivity. … Many end up obese and with serious behavioral problems such as screaming, biting and self-mutilation by plucking out their feathers.” James Serpell, director of the Center for the Interaction of Animals and Society at the University of Pennsylvania, says, “Parrots are the primates of the bird world. They aren’t content to sit on a perch and sing.”"*
Everybody on this forum is a responsible bird owner, and it's not fair to accuse us. Okay, rant over. 
Also look at this, same thing. 
http://www.peta.org/issues/companion-animal-issues/cruel-practices/caging-birds/


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## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

They make only one valid point: "Parrots are the primates of the bird world. They aren't content to sit on a perch and sing." Not everybody should own a parrot for that reason.

The rest is demagoguery, propaganda, and hype.

Peta has every right to protest, but they are a fringe element in today's society. One with very little credibility. Setting nature back to the way it was simply doesn't work, we can't set all the domesticated dogs free to roam the world as wolves. Caged parrots are no different and are also to the point that they rely on humans for support.


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## yokobirdie (Jul 9, 2014)

Exactly.


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## CaliTiels (Oct 18, 2012)

Ya I agree. Parrots really are not for everybody, but really? Listen, birds have been kept by people for hundreds of years. Dogs have been kept for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. PETA didn't exist back then, but who cares if they did? Nobody said anything practically a 1000 years ago. Birds _are_ wild animals bred in captivity, but we started with wolves and it led to dogs. We have to start somewhere, you know? But we take decent care of them. I've never even heard of taping their beak shut before. Once again, PETA is a joke and they blow things waaaay out of the water just to stir up the pot and make it seem like all bird owners (and other pet owners) are cruel, sick people. Whatever PETA, if you need to build up awareness for your "work" by claiming one thing is something it is not, then good for you. For the people with common sense, we know we are trying our best to accommodate for our birdies. Bird awareness is growing and people are getting smarter about it


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## yokobirdie (Jul 9, 2014)

So true, Stephanie, PETA is such an extremist group.


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

Ah yes, PETA. I love what they do for animals, but what they say can be a little misleading sometimes for pet owners. :lol:
Geez, I'm a member and even I think it is kind of an offensive article for bird owners. <_<

I love you guys and hope I don't offend, don't worry I'm not offended either. :flowers: 

Bleh don't worry, I get that animal rights groups can be extremist sometimes. It's a good way to get the message out on social media, the extremism is just to draw attention to the issue. Their videos show the raw brutality of animal cruelty and forces you to face the fact that people do those things to animals. It's a very tactical way to draw people's attention and get them to think. It certainly got me to donate to save the seals in Canada. 

I don't think they meant to offend that way cause all of the Peta staff own multiple animals of all kinds; cats, dogs, guinea pigs, rats, and also birds. 

It sounds like they were trying to go for an informative anti-smuggling and anti-pet industry post. I don't think it was their intention to be anti bird owners because they wouldn't promote their message that way by intentionally offending.

While extremist, I respect that they were the first people to start the animal rights movement in the U.S. and have been very active in trying to get rid of animal testing here and prevent companies in the U.S. from moving their animal testing practices to other countries. They just got India to ban animal testing completely. Many companies that wish to continue animal testing are suing to overturn this, but I don't think they will win. I've watched some of the videos, people do some horrible things to animals. I respect animal rights organizations because before them, animals had no voice with respect to the law. Now they are the voice of animals, though I agree sometimes things can be taken a little too far. But without them animal rights would be in the toilet today I think.


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## Colorguarder08 (Sep 13, 2014)

I really don't think anybody takes PETA seriously anymore, if they ever did. I wouldn't be offended by anything they said. They often times try to "blackmail" pet stores into getting rid of all their live animals but then think about it where would people get their feeder mice or fish or pretty much any rodent or small animal from. I once read a letter from PETA to either Petco or PetSmart I can't remember which where they told them as long as they got rid of all their live animals and (including fish) and issued a public statement that they were wrong in selling them that PETA would not include them in their campaign against major pet retail stores. Obviously that didn't work, but they sent several letters basically stating the same thing.


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

Oh I remember that! Yeah they went too far with that one. It was to both of them asking that they stop selling live animals pretty much. Totally unrealistic expectations to ask an animal sales business to tank itself. :lol:
I think that they stopped overcrowding the feeder fish tanks though cause PETA got a lot of people protesting that one. Apparently there were a lot of dead and diseased feeder fish from the crowding.


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## ollieandme (Mar 25, 2013)

Although PETA takes that to an extreme level, I do have to agree with some of that. A LOT of cage birds live in dodgy conditions: even just those little cages that pet shops sell for budgies. The cockatiels on TC are well cared for and lead varied and loving lives, but I think that article does make a point, that domestic parrots are not universally well cared for.


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## Colorguarder08 (Sep 13, 2014)

Kiwi said:


> Oh I remember that! Yeah they went too far with that one. It was to both of them asking that they stop selling live animals pretty much. Totally unrealistic expectations to ask an animal sales business to tank itself. :lol:
> I think that they stopped overcrowding the feeder fish tanks though cause PETA got a lot of people protesting that one. Apparently there were a lot of dead and diseased feeder fish from the crowding.


Clearly neither of them here got the memo as the feeder fish in both my local PetSmart and Petco have them so crowded there isn't even a space the size of a dime between the fish. There have been times I've literally been able to buy 300 feeder fish (for a couple red eared sliders in a pond) got them all out of one tank and you couldn't even tell the difference (ok you could but you wouldn't know it because they were so crowded still).


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

Colorguarder08 said:


> Clearly neither of them here got the memo as the feeder fish in both my local PetSmart and Petco have them so crowded there isn't even a space the size of a dime between the fish. There have been times I've literally been able to buy 300 feeder fish (for a couple red eared sliders in a pond) got them all out of one tank and you couldn't even tell the difference (ok you could but you wouldn't know it because they were so crowded still).


Yikes, I feel bad for those fish. My Petco here doesn't do that anymore. My friend worked there and said he had to keep scrapping dead and live ones off the filter and into the trash can it was so crowded. I feel bad just looking at overcrowded tanks, especially because I have fishies. If you get pictures and inform PETA or another animal rights group I'm sure they'd help you take care of that if you want. PETA has more of a history with Petco though. :lol:



> Although PETA takes that to an extreme level, I do have to agree with some of that. A LOT of cage birds live in dodgy conditions: even just those little cages that pet shops sell for budgies. The cockatiels on TC are well cared for and lead varied and loving lives, but I think that article does make a point, that domestic parrots are not universally well cared for.


Very true. 
It breaks my heart when I hear about birds being abused like that. 
I read in here I think about someone who rescued a poor bird who had probably never had its cage cleaned (read:inches of droppings on the ground), fed all seeds that I think were pretty bad, and it had a glass of dirty water to drink. A glass! So glad that the kind person got that bird out of there. Personally, I would have taken pictures and slapped that person who put the bird in that condition with animal abuse charges so hard their head would spin. I want to think that is the minority of abuse and neglect cases, but I don't know.

I'm just glad everyone on TC cares about their birds so much.


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## CaliTiels (Oct 18, 2012)

Sorry Kiwi. PETA means well, but they blow too much out of proportion


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

CaliTiels said:


> Sorry Kiwi. PETA means well, but they blow too much out of proportion


Don't worry I'm not offended. I'm like the hardest person to offend in the world. Since I see both sides of everything where every one is coming from. :lol:

I know PETA does that, but they also do some good. 
But yes, a lot of things are blown out of proportion to get media attention and get people talking about it.


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## eduardo (Jan 27, 2012)

If my Candy and Tony could speak, I would ask them where they would rather live - in desert area of Australia, with scarce food and little water and scary predators, or here with me, with plenty of scritches, treats and room to fly around the house with no fear of being eaten. Hm... I don't know what they would say LOL


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## yokobirdie (Jul 9, 2014)

Oh, of course Kiwi! I completely agree with you! PETA does a lot of great things for animals, but sometimes they can be a little extremist.


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## Lu*lu (Jul 4, 2013)

PETA is a joke because they focus their fights in the wrong arenas. They attack all pet owners instead of using energy and time to enlighten the poor ones. Very few people go out of their way to consciously harm their animals...most "abusers" are just ignorant to how to properly care for a parrot. Even the littlest parakeet needs more than a cage, mirror and bowl of seeds. I honestly think it would be best if pet shops were encouraged to hand out booklets or pamphlets on "How to Care" for the animals they sell...you can't just use hateful or violent imagery every time you want to make a point. People will tune you out.


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## CaliTiels (Oct 18, 2012)

Lu*lu said:


> PETA is a joke because they focus their fights in the wrong arenas. They attack all pet owners instead of using energy and time to enlighten the poor ones. Very few people go out of their way to consciously harm their animals...most "abusers" are just ignorant to how to properly care for a parrot. Even the littlest parakeet needs more than a cage, mirror and bowl of seeds. I honestly think it would be best if pet shops were encouraged to hand out booklets or pamphlets on "How to Care" for the animals they sell...you can't just use hateful or violent imagery every time you want to make a point. People will tune you out.


Like. Like. Like.

This was basically what I was trying to say, but summed up in a neater package


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## Colorguarder08 (Sep 13, 2014)

Lulu I have to agree with you. Honestly I think they should raise the prices of their pets so they can cover the cost of a credible book to give out for "free" with the purchase of said pet. I always pick phamplets they have at PetSmart but they only give very little information. A book won't give all the information necessary but it would atleast give a foundation. I also think a questionaire would be a good idea so they know which potential buyers could provide good homes.


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## slugabed (Jul 27, 2014)

PETA are a joke - they're an extremist organisation that wants all animals to be free from humans, human influence, and human use.


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## Lulu-Tiel (Jun 3, 2012)

PETA is really quite a disgrace lately. They had a video showing the "abuse" race horses take. Being involved with horses for 17 years now I know a fair bit. The video they took was just awful. They twisted everything to make it look like abuse and it wasn't! I am not a huge fan of horse racing but it is an important part of life. Being that I'm not a huge fan of it, I'm certainly not just defending anything that these racing guys were doing. Honest to God, PETA literally twisted everything. The horse industry was outraged! 

I used to like and respect PETA. Some things you could take it or leave it but they did raise a lot of awareness to factory farming and exposed a lot of other stuff such as the pet store/live animal industry. Over the past year or so though, they've completely changed. All they're doing is lying, twisting the truth to benefit their organization etc. I have completely lost respect for PETA.


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## Pippitha (Mar 27, 2011)

They do have a point. But I saw this as aimed at smugglers and pet stores mostly. A lot of people don't know where their pets come from, so it's good to bring some light to that.

The birds bred in captivity would most likely not have a very good chance of surviving in the wild. I don't think this was really aimed at pet owners, since at one point they said that some birds used as breeders have almost no human contact, as in them actually approving of humans as good companionship for birds.


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## rpo (Mar 8, 2011)

I understand perfectly why PETA wrote that article. The percentage of bird owners who let their birds out of the cage every day and actually interact positively with their bird is a very small minority (probably less than 10%). Yes, I'd agree that nearly all people on this forum fall into that minority, but it sickens me that few pet birds are treated well. Most are left to rot and eventually die of a treatable illness locked in a cage their entire lives.

I absolutely adore Corona (who is my only pet), and I'd definitely consider getting another tiel once she is gone, but if there was a law banning the breeding and importation of parrots into the country, I'd support it at this point. In my opinion, that would do more to help birds than we, the caring minority, can accomplish.


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## slugabed (Jul 27, 2014)

rpo said:


> I understand perfectly why PETA wrote that article. The percentage of bird owners who let their birds out of the cage every day and actually interact positively with their bird is a very small minority (probably less than 10%). Yes, I'd agree that nearly all people on this forum fall into that minority, but it sickens me that few pet birds are treated well. Most are left to rot and eventually die of a treatable illness locked in a cage their entire lives.
> 
> I absolutely adore Corona (who is my only pet), and I'd definitely consider getting another tiel once she is gone, but if there was a law banning the breeding and importation of parrots into the country, I'd support it at this point. In my opinion, that would do more to help birds than we, the caring minority, can accomplish.


I'd get behind a ban on birds as pets too, as much as I love Cassie. In the USA it's mostly parrots, but here I see more than just parrots, and a large majority of the birds on sale are really not suitable as pets.


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## WyethKeth (May 17, 2014)

Tch, PETA again. What's new?

Remember that time when the tried to make cats and dogs go on a 'Vegan' diet? I mean, c'mon, really? I know they mean well n' all, but..


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## 4743hudsonj (Aug 28, 2014)

PETA are hypocrites. There an excellent episode of Penn & Tellers (male cow manure) on PETA that explains how they kill more animals than they save. Give it a watch on YouTube.


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## yokobirdie (Jul 9, 2014)

WyethKeth said:


> Tch, PETA again. What's new?
> 
> Remember that time when the tried to make cats and dogs go on a 'Vegan' diet? I mean, c'mon, really? I know they mean well n' all, but..


Yeah, and also, that's dangerous for cats! It can kill them because they need taurine in their diet!


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## WyethKeth (May 17, 2014)

That being said, I do believe they make a few good points, also.
*“Parrots are the primates of the bird world. They aren’t content to sit on a perch and sing."* 
Yes, I agree with this. I've seen people who've bought very, very beautiful and lively parrots and cage them up for days until they get a little bit of sunlight. It's sad, and parrots tend to need free time to roam. I once saw a close friend give her macaw back because it bit her. 

Also, Kiwi, I don't think anyone is offended that you're apart of PETA! There's a lot of great people in that organization that mean well for animals, but there's also extremists. Luckily people know that PETA isn't just a group of crazy weirdos and that they also have some rad members.  I also agree that they were trying to deliver an informational post, and though I don't agree with some things (Like, taping their beaks. I've never heard of that, but if that's true, that's a little sick.) I can see where they're coming from. Another point they made was how *"birds older than 8 to 10 weeks don’t sell well at pet shops"*. I'm not sure if I can entirely agree with this statement, but what I'd really like to know is where they got their evidence for their claim from.


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## CaliTiels (Oct 18, 2012)

Oh ya, I totally agree. PETA can definitely have some strong, valid arguments, but then they can just straight up cross the line. I remember on a snake forum, someone from PETA signed on firing at all the members that they feed their snakes living and/or frozen mice. Well... duh! I don't like taking the live anymore than you do, but snakes need to eat too. I had such a rough time feeding Medusa in the beginning, but I can't let her starve. It's sad that one life is taken, but it is natural and their life helps keep another living. I don't feed her mice to torture the poor things out of spite!

They have the right energy, but fuel it in the wrong places


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

CaliTiels said:


> They have the right energy, but fuel it in the wrong places


Haha that sums it up! :lol:

Yeah... I think a majority of people mean well, but some of the things are a little extreme. I do like that they raise awareness of things though, after that we're free to form our own opinion. In my mind, I think the main goal is just to get people to talk :lol:.
Like I support banning the bull hooks from circuses, stopping animal smuggling, getting rid of animal testing; stopping the practice of animal torture in the leather, fur, down, and wool industries (don't support any of that cruelty either ), and I do not like SeaWorld by any stretch of the imagination. The last time I was at SeaWorld I saw those wounds on the whales before Blackfish, horrible.
Some of the stuff that's put out there is unrealistic, but gets you to think. Except that vegan animal food one, that was confusing to me. It would have made more sense if they said to only promote sustainable or organic farms for meat in their animal's food or something. Or even going to a specialty pet store that makes dog and cat foods from meat from organic/cruelty free farms. I hear that's better for them anyway, gets rid of food allergies too. I was kind of expecting anything, but that vegan article that made little sense. >.<

Unfortunately it is true that animal smugglers tape the beaks of parrots shut so that they are not discovered. :frown: They also do many many other horrid things to them that I can't even mention because makes me sick to think about. But if anyone would like to know more information about that and the steps they have/are taking to prevent it, you can find it in this link: https://animallawcoalition.com/parrot-smuggling/


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## WyethKeth (May 17, 2014)

Kiwi said:


> Unfortunately it is true that animal smugglers tape the beaks of parrots shut so that they are not discovered. :frown: They also do many many other horrid things to them that I can't even mention because makes me sick to think about. But if anyone would like to know more information about that and the steps they have/are taking to prevent it, you can find it in this link: https://animallawcoalition.com/parrot-smuggling/


Thank you for the article! I couldn't even make it half-way, reading that made me disgusted. I can't imagine the types of people that would do such a thing to these poor animals. How distasteful.


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

WyethKeth said:


> Thank you for the article! I couldn't even make it half-way, reading that made me disgusted. I can't imagine the types of people that would do such a thing to these poor animals. How distasteful.


No problem!

I know, those smugglers are the worst types of people. They make me sick.

It makes you want to hug your parrot a little closer at night.


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## yokobirdie (Jul 9, 2014)

Yeah! I know that feeling, Kiwi!  By the way, just so you know, nobody will criticize you because you're a part of PETA!  I think that PETA does a lot of great things for animals, but sometimes they can go a little bit wacky with their ideas.


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

Aww thank you! :rofl:

Don't worry, I never got the feeling that anyone would do that. 
I wouldn't mind if people did though. Because I get some people don't like it. I don't like certain aspects of it either. I do like the good parts of it, definitely don't like the underbelly though. >.<


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