# George Forman Grill



## Bailey's Mum (Sep 18, 2012)

Hi

Does anybody use a George Forman grill and know if its safe to use?

I know it's non stick but I can't find what it is made of.

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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

they're not safe. anything non-stick is not safe for birds


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## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

I have one, i'm about 90% sure that they're teflon...

I wouldn't give the birds anything i've cooked on it anyway


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

Loopy Lou said:


> I have one, i'm about 90% sure that they're teflon...
> 
> I wouldn't give the birds anything i've cooked on it anyway


it's not food cooked off them that's dangerous, it's the fumes let off that are deadly to birds. anything non-stick should not be used around birds


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## Loopy Lou (Jul 26, 2012)

The birds are in the living room, i only use the grill in the kitchen with the window open  Unfortunately my actual grill doesn't work, so i don't have much choice >.<


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I think they're pretty low-risk if it's on one of the lower heat settings and in a different room from the birds. Yes, they're teflon, but most of them don't get as hot as a stove would. I know my parents used one for years and years with no ill effect to their birds, although of course there's always some measure of risk there if something becomes damaged or is left unattended. So it's up to you what you feel is a safe level of risk to take.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

The biggest issue with teflon is when it overheats, which as enigma said is easier on a stove. I wouldn't ever use it in the same room as the birds and if you can smell the fumes then you bet they can. So just keep that in mind when using it.


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## OOwl (Dec 5, 2012)

I'll be so glad when they outlaw that teflon stuff so we don't have to worry what it's in anymore. So many innocuous items contain it, like the covering on an ironing board, some irons, popcorn poppers, warm-water humidifiers, etc. I'm terrified of it and don't so much as have a piece of it in my house. I've read too many stories of birds just dropping dead of "no cause." I don't trust the manufacturers enough to take their word on it. If it's deadly overheated, it's probably mildly irritating even at lower temps. Just don't take a chance. Cook in cast iron. It's better for you anyway.


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## Bailey's Mum (Sep 18, 2012)

We've kind of inherited one. Looks like someone else shall be inheriting it now.

Thanks for the replies.



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## Nokota (Jan 27, 2013)

We have used Teflon pans and things for many years in our home and have always kept parrots. There is a ventilation fan immediately above our stove, and we have an open concept house. The birds ARE in the same room as the stove, but the room in question is about half the size of a basketball court, as it includes the kitchen, living room, and entry. Also, Teflon only releases particles into the air *directly* if the product gets above 500 degrees, and most ovens and stove cap at 450. Otherwise only the food cooking in the Teflon-lined utensil can be affected by any particles released. Don't cook anything FOR the bird on the non-stick coating and it will be just fine.

People completely overreact to the whole Teflon thing. It's only an issue if you're super-heating the stuff in a small area with the bird in it.

Don't correct me unless you've killed a bird yourself this way or something of the sort, I'm not interested in getting replies and opinions based off of here-say.


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## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

Wow - kind of crabby post here Nakota.

When I was a child, my Dad left a frying pan on, teflon, empty pan - my little conure dead when I woke up the next day.

My roommate eons ago did kill a love bird by overheating a teflon fry pan for prolonged period of time when she left it on, foodless and Cubby our lovebird died. Did I know then it was teflon? No. Back then I knew nothing about birds.

The gal I got Shandy/Sunny from had a family use a self cleaning oven - teflon - both parrots dead in the morning.

So yes, teflon does kill. Sure I had it in the past for cooking - everyone did and I was even lied to by my own parents "he ate a wooden ladder" so I wouldnt blame my Dad  Threw it all out and am happy to soak my pans now.

I do not need or want that around me or my birds.


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## OOwl (Dec 5, 2012)

I WILL reply to you, Nakota. I raised a bird for my nieces and nephew, an adorable English budgie, and he died due to Teflon fumes. The pan was NOT terribly overheated, just smoked. The bird left his young owners devastated and traumatized. You use it with your birds if you want to, but do not state publicly how safe it is. Birdkeepers have been warned for years of its dangers by experts, breeders, and avian veterinarians, and there are story after story about how unsafe it is to have around birds. I am not overreacting. I'm ensuring that it cannot be used in my house with the possibility of misuse (what if a houseguest prepared food and overheated it without your knowledge or when you were out of the house?). Accidents happen. Good luck to your birds.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

there has been records of it being bad for HUMANS. surely not something i would want in my home or not.


the "it won't happen to me" attitude is by far the worst attitude to have when you are responsible for other lives.

do as you like with your own birds, Nakota, good luck, but please do not advise people on this forum that non-stick products are safe. 


have fun with some reading 



> Safety
> 
> The pyrolysis of PTFE is detectable at 200 °C (392 °F), and it evolves several fluorocarbon gases[21] and a sublimate. An animal study conducted in 1955 concluded that it is unlikely that these products would be generated in amounts significant to health at temperatures below 250 °C (482 °F).[22] More recently, however, a study documented birds having been killed by these decomposition products at 202 °C (396 °F), with unconfirmed reports of bird deaths as a result of non-stick cookware heated to as little as 163 °C (325 °F).[21][23]
> While PTFE is stable and nontoxic, it begins to deteriorate after the temperature of cookware reaches about 533 K (260 °C; 500 °F), and decomposes above 623 K (350 °C; 662 °F).[24] These degradation by-products can be lethal to birds, and can cause flu-like symptoms in humans.[24] In May, 2003, the environmental research and advocacy organization Environmental Working Group filed a 14-page brief with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission petitioning for a rule requiring that cookware and heated appliances bearing non-stick coatings carry a label warning of hazards to people and to birds.[25]
> Meat is usually fried between 400 and 450 °F (204 and 232 °C), and most oils will start to smoke before a temperature of 500 °F (260 °C) is reached, but there are at least two cooking oils (refined safflower oil and avocado oil) that have a higher smoke point than 500 °F (260 °C). Empty cookware can also exceed this temperature upon heating.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene


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## bubbleslove (May 27, 2012)

MeanneyFids said:


> they're not safe. anything non-stick is not safe for birds


What about Ceramic pots n pans etc ? These r PTFE free and non stick ? I threw all my Teflon out ! And bought Ceramic ? Views wouls be appreciated


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i use ceramic baking pans for pot roasts and such, ive never heard of them being dangerous, but not sure about the nonstick factor :/ maybe someone can shed light on that one


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I'll correct you. Did you know that a teflon/non-stick pan with a scratched surface will release teflon fumes at a much lower temperature than a pan that does not have any damage to it?

Also, there is *no harm* in cooking a bird's food on teflon or non-stick baking/cooking ware. After all, the fumes is what kills them..there are no chemicals on the food.


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## Nokota (Jan 27, 2013)

SunnyNShandy said:


> Wow - kind of crabby post here Nakota.
> 
> When I was a child, my Dad left a frying pan on, teflon, empty pan - my little conure dead when I woke up the next day.


The pan is NOT at fault. Teflon can superheat if the pan is left on for an extremely long time, especially with nothing in it. Without something in the frying pan, the heat concentrates in the surface of the pan instead of flowing from it into the contents. There are warnings on most nonstick frying pans about heating them without anything in them.



OOwl said:


> I WILL reply to you, Nakota. I raised a bird for my nieces and nephew, an adorable English budgie, and he died due to Teflon fumes. The pan was NOT terribly overheated, just smoked.


More details are needed here, but you shouldn't be using a "smoked" pan. I am assuming the pan had been damaged in some way that caused the coating to leech. Teflon coated pans are supposed to be thrown out if there are even small scratches on the coating, let alone being "Smoked". 



bjknight93 said:


> I'll correct you. Did you know that a teflon/non-stick pan with a scratched surface will release teflon fumes at a much lower temperature than a pan that does not have any damage to it?
> 
> Also, there is *no harm* in cooking a bird's food on teflon or non-stick baking/cooking ware. After all, the fumes is what kills them..there are no chemicals on the food.


Yes, but as I mentioned already, scratched teflon-coated pans are supposed to be trashed because they are a health hazard to people.

Cooking a bird's food on a teflon surface can't kill them because it's the fumes that can affect their lungs, but it can leech into the food a little while cooking and it still isn't good for them.

Listen

My point here is *not *that the coatings and such are 100% safe. *They are not*. My point is that when incidents occur it is *the owner's fault *for not taking proper precautions, misusing their cooking utensils, or just plain stupidity. Teflon-coated nonstick pans can be very safely used in households with birds by people who know how to take care of and properly use them. If you don't know how to use a frying pan, you shouldn't own one. Both of the situations described here would also have proven hazardous to humans, as teflon fumes *are also harmful to humans*. Both of these situations were clearly *caused* by humans misusing the product, and then blaming the product! It's like A little boy blaming the chair for breaking when he himself wiggling around on it all the time broke it. I myself own two nonstick pans and two acrylic pans. I prefer the acrylic myself, but they're expensive. I have known many people who own teflon coated pans and birds and have for a very long time. If you can't cook responsibly, buy the expensive acrylic pans, but for those of us who can cook responsibly and know how to handle our hardware, there's little need to worry.

You just need to take responsibility for how you use your tools.

It's very easy to avoid misusing cooking tools. 
All you have to do is:

1) Not walk away while cooking
2) Don't heat up empty pots or pans
3) Do not use damaged equipment

Seriously, people. Use your brains a little. I know you have 'em.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

as i said before, please do not advise members with dangerous advice 


Please be more respectful for our members here, who speak up from their own painful experiences.


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## OOwl (Dec 5, 2012)

I'm not going to reply to this thread any longer. It's ridiculous to be having this "argument." Most responsible, educated parrot owners know that using Teflon is a serious risk if you keep parrots in the same house. If a member wants to do that anyway, that is his or her own business. Nokota, I will hope your luck holds out and there is never a mistake regarding your chosen cookware. Best wishes. . .


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## flippityjib (Dec 13, 2012)

I was told also that a self cleaning oven can cause fumes to kill a bird. * Even if used exactly as directed.*
Myself, I have a brand of pans that are not teflon coated, but I don't have my birds in the kitchen area anyway.


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## cknauf (Aug 27, 2012)

You don't really _need_ nonstick either. Well-seasoned cast iron pans are naturally non-stick, and in most cases if you're cooking things at the right temp for the right amount of time they won't stick. Usually people put food in when the pan's too cold, and then try to flip stuff before it's ready to be flipped. Meat in particular will stick to the pan until it's ready to be flipped, then it will release.


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## Clair (Jul 31, 2012)

I had a cast iron skillet in my camping box that I never used. I finally crawled up into the rafters to retrieve it and after seasoning it, I have been using it for the past couple of days. It. Is. Awesome. It browns food an entirely different way than a regular metal pan so that it tastes much, much better. And you're right cknauf, the food doesn't stick at all. I wish I had retrieved it years ago.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Cast iron has got to be the best thing ever...my hubby got me a set for christmas and I couldn't be happier. Love love love them!!


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## amandacv86 (Mar 1, 2013)

Just saw this post. Going to get a huge cast iron skillet on payday and try to not use the nonstick anymore. If I do I'll close the door to the living room and open the window right next to them. Better safe than sorry!


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## cknauf (Aug 27, 2012)

Make sure to read up on how to care for cast-iron, because you have to treat it differently than other materials.


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## amandacv86 (Mar 1, 2013)

We have a cast iron dutch oven and a couple small skillets, just need something to replace our big nonstick skillet. Thanks though!


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## Bailey's Mum (Sep 18, 2012)

We've got a few new titanium ones. Any thoughts on the safety of titanium? 

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