# Gout/Kidney Failure



## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

Well we are 99% sure that Sammy has both even tho we can't do bloodwork. His veins aren't cooperating. So we are treating as if that is what it is based on examination and what is going on.

He is on pain meds and I will pick up Allopurionl and Colchicine which is compounded by a pharmacy. My vet recommends a Vitamin A supplement and an EPA/DHA supplement too but she has to find one that will be the best and again, dose it for a very small bird. He is down to 70 grams. Down from 80 3 weeks ago which was horribly thin then.

My goal now is to keep him comfy (he is talking and eating a bit tonite) and pain free. If anyone has any advice on old age gout vs young bird gout as well as kidney failure, pls shout it out. I need help.

Thanks

Lisa and Sammy


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Talk to your vet and ask the vet to show you how to do Sub-Q fluids, and sell/supply you with what is needed. Also ask for the visual signs of renal/kidney failure. Know how to do Sub-Q fluids *is essential* to bring a bird out of renal/kidney failure.

Gout is going to be seen by swollen joints. Your posting is very very vague. I have alot of experience with this,and also successful treatments but reluctant to supply info on such a vague posting with little info on exact symptoms, and what speciific tests were done.

As to bloodwork, if you have a competent vet they would know to hydrate him (Sub-Q) to get blood volumes up


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Susanne, there is quite a lot of info in her previous threads. 

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=30304

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=30835


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## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

I wont do sub-q's on him. I have done that on dogs in kidney failure and yes it prolongs their life, but I do not personally believe it is a quality life for a super old animal. Sammy is 25. He has swollen joints and we have been doctoring for a month now and I have been posting about it. I took him into the true avian vet vs the avail vet who knew something about birds as she finally was back in town. That is where we got our diagnosis. The first diagnosis (by the non avian vet) was injury (hopeful) as it was just one foot he wasnt using. Now it is both that are painful and he is painful in the kidney area and not eating. She agreed to not traumatize such an old bird with more poking and needles and agreed that we'd go the supplements/pain meds/ route since the jugular and the nail clip blood draw didnt work. Sammy is not hand fed. He is tame to a point but I will not towel him to do sub-q's or excessive meds on a daily basis. He was SO stressed at the vets. I have redone his cage after daily trips to Petsmart and made it as easy as possible on him to get around.

I am looking for diet/supplement ideas. My vet and I agreed tonite that he will not go in for further vet visits, it was too hard on him. Very hard. And you cant imagine how hard it was on me, seeing him scream like that and trying to call out his name in a cheery tune to get his attention and get him to focus as they inserted the needles. No more.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Lisa, while I completely respect your decision not to take desperate measures which might diminish Sammy's quality of life, the one thing I would urge you to do is ask the vet whether they think there's any possibility of reversing his condition with sub q's as part of the treatment regimen. If this is a condition caused or exacerbated by diet, I believe that it's possible for the kidneys to heal to a certain degree. I have read cases where giving sub q's for a short period of time in conjunction with allopurinol and other supplements actually improved kidney function to a point where further medication was not needed. At least one of these was in a very old bird. I understand your concern for his quality of life, but I do think you need to weigh this possibility as a part of your decision.


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## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

She asked me to call her tomorrow after I picked up the further meds to ensure I understood everything as well as to see what the pharmacist's view was on giving those 2 along with the pain meds together at one time. I will ask her that specific question tomorrow but I think since we tried 2X to get a good blood draw for more tests, she wont be able to give a for sure answer  

I would do anything for Sammy. Pls dont get me wrong. I know how to do sub-q's and if I thought it would be worth his temporary discomfort, I will do it. 

This is very upsetting. He is my lifelong friend. I have had him more than 1/2 of my life.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I know you want what's best for him, and that this is a very hard decision to make. I'm not trying to judge you or change your mind, I just want you to have as much information as possible.


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## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

I appreciate that. I want as much info as I can get too. I'll see what she says tomorrow and hoping that he likes fresh popped popcorn as much as Pika does as a coworker is bringing in his air popper tomorrow so I can try popcorn for meds as well. Main thing now is he needs to eat and drink and take meds.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I really hope he pulls through. :flowers: But regardless of the outcome, 25 years is a ripe old age for a cockatiel and you should be proud to keep him with you for this long. I know this tough; and I respect any decisions you choose to make for his sake. Best of luck to you and Sammy. He knows you're doing all you can for him and our birds are real fighters. He's in my thoughts.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Keep us posted on how Sammy is doing. Sending good thoughts his way.


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## JaimeS (Nov 28, 2011)

I'm sorry your Sammy is sick. I teared up reading your story. Also sending good thoughts your way.


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## Fortunate (Oct 31, 2011)

so sorry to hear the sad news - i agree with you, qualitly over quantity. 

You know him best so you will make the right choice regarding his care!

Godd luck - sending thoughts and prayers your way!


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## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

Talked to my vet today after picking up the meds and she said without bloodwork (which we were unable to do with his blood pressure, etc), she cant say whether sub-q's would reverse anything. She said lets give the new meds a few days and we'll go from there. He seems happier today tho not eating enough. Unknotting a new toy. Moving around the cage and letting me help him maneuver around. He has eaten 1/2 of the popcorn kernel with the meds on it. Yowsa they were spendy too. $100 for the 2 today. They said they last 2 months tho which is good.


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## SunnyNShandy (May 24, 2012)

He is responding really really well to the new meds. The torbugesic seems to be working way better than the metacam and the gout/kidney meds must be helping too. He is alert, happy, even flew yesterday! He is interested in eating too so I feel really really good. He still cant close that foot and still is having issues, but is WAY improved and it feels GREAT.

I shot a video of his happy expression and sweet face so you can see him 

http://youtu.be/EAl9vZAxAzY


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## JaimeS (Nov 28, 2011)

That is great news! He is adorable. I love the head turns, so cute!


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## stevechurch2222 (Sep 25, 2011)

Great video of Sammy,glad to hear the meds are helping him,he looks very alert for being 25 years old great job.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Sammy is adorable.  I'm glad the new meds seem to be helping.


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