# Really concerned about my cockatiel



## scottrand90 (Apr 23, 2012)

Hi everyone, my name is Scott. I joined this forum because I saw how helpful people have been. My mums cockatiel called Toohey is ill. Today I noticed that her quiff was all sticky and stuck down. So because of this I observed her for a while and noticed that her coordination was not great and that she was throwing up. As soon as I saw that she was throwing up I took her to the vets. The vet said she probably had a infection and gave me baytril and liquid paraffin to give to her for 10 days and see how that goes. I am quite a softy with animals so if i know they are suffering I observe them for hours on end just to make sure they are ok, and just now I was moving my fingers around the outside of her cage and she was not reacting, so I don't know if shes actually going blind or just ill and not in the mood. So I put my hand in and she reacts so I am unsure if she is blind. So basically in a long roundabout way I just want to know if shes ill or going blind and should i give the treatment a chance for 10 days or go to a avian vet tomorrow, or should I phone the avian vet for advice. Many thanks and sorry for the long essay.


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## nassrah (Feb 27, 2012)

I am not an expert,there s a lot of more experienced people here to help you,but I would have already phoned the avian vet for advice.Cockatiels are very delicate birds-dont wait too long-if youre feeling your bird is not well,just call the vet Good Luck


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I would call the vet if you're concerned about the birds vision. While not common some illness will cause brain damage. This would have to be ruled out. I did a little research about blindness, and came up with this What kind of cage is your bird in? Metal toxicity cannot be disqualified as a possible cause until it is tested for metals.


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## scottrand90 (Apr 23, 2012)

Hi I tried calling the avian vet today but he's not in until midday tomorrow so I will call him then. With regards to the cage she's been in her current cage for 7+ years


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

Do you have a travel carrier? I would also suspect the baytril it can cause liver damage in birds. Let me do a little more research and maybe someone who knows if baytril can cause blindness can chime in while i'm looking.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

Ok I found that it can cause blindness in cats, so I would advise not medicating again until you can get it to the vet. I'll look a little longer, but cut off the baytril just to be sure. 

Edit: I've found that baytril has been banned for use in poultry and has caused blindness in other species, but mainly felines. 

Edit: I found a few cases of pigeon blindness using baytril. 

With that information I recommend waiting for the vet and tell him about it causing blindness in other birds and ask for another medication. Do not take no for an answer.


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## scottrand90 (Apr 23, 2012)

Well a vet did prescribe the baytril, it just wasnt a avian vet


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## Cryren8972 (Oct 3, 2007)

How much Baytril did he prescribe?


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## scottrand90 (Apr 23, 2012)

Baytril 2.5% oral, and to give him 0.1ml daily for 10 days


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

Re-read my third post, it was edited with the info I found. Baytril is some nasty stuff and why it has been prescribed for birds when it was never approved for use on them is beyond me.


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## scottrand90 (Apr 23, 2012)

Ok I think I'm going to try get through to the avian vet tomorrow at midday, I've just checked on him. Still unsure if he can see or not, he reacts sometimes and doesn't at other times. He seems ok at the moment just perched in the corner sleeping.


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## Cryren8972 (Oct 3, 2007)

Hold off on dosing him again with the antibiotics. I had a bird seize on antibiotics, and it destroyed his liver. He was never quite the same after that. Wait until you speak with your vet before you dose him again. I hope he's OK.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Very few meds are "approved" for birds, because unfortunately that type of research just isn't all that common. Baytril has been used very successfully for many, many birds. Of course, that doesn't mean that it _can't_ have harmful side effects in some individuals -- this is true of human medications as well, even ones that are FDA approved. It's certainly worth double checking the dosage and tolerance with your vet, but please do have this conversation before concluding that it's just a "bad" med and discontinuing treatment. Your bird had symptoms to begin with, so it's equally likely that the problems you're seeing are the result of the illness and not the medication. A picture of her droppings would be helpful. If the urates look normal, then it's unlikely that the Baytril is affecting the liver.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Mentha said:


> With that information I recommend waiting for the vet and tell him about it causing blindness in other birds and ask for another medication. Do not take no for an answer.


This is a little extreme. It's certainly worth raising these concerns and asking for an acceptable explanation as to why the vet feels that the med is safe for use in 'tiels if it has caused blindness in other birds. But simply ruling it out and demanding an alternative is a bad strategy if there is a medical justification for Baytril as the most appropriate antibiotic.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

Baytril is usually prescribed as a broad spectrum if the diagnosis is not known or they are waiting on lab results, there are other medications that can be prescribed that are just as effective. If the drug is adversely affecting the bird then there is no reason to continue and another drug should be used. Having dealt with vets that thought I didn't have a clue what I was talking about many times has made be a little more assertive and demanding in the treatment of my animals. All pet owners should consult their vet, yes I totally agree, but the treatment is solely the owners decision.


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## scottrand90 (Apr 23, 2012)

Hi just to update everyone I spoke to a avian vet on the phone, and he said although he can't complete a assessment 100% over the phone, he said that the blindness sounds as if because she's I'll she's just not in the mood to interact the way she normally does. I explained about the baytril and he said to keep on taking it as the vet done the right thing in prescribing it. From what I explained to him he seemed happy for me to manage to symptoms at home but if they get worse then he is happy to see me  toohey seems a little brighter today so hopefully is on the road to recovery. Many thanks for everyone's input.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm glad to here that toohey is doing better. Keep us posted!


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## scottrand90 (Apr 23, 2012)

Hi all. she is miles better today. I even walked in and caught her humping her perch. so glad she's on the road to recovery. thank you so much you lot have been great.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

That's good news


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## hanna (Apr 14, 2012)

Glad to read that she is on the mend. Especially after it been a serious illness according to my understanding tiels can hide it very good if they are sick, keep reacting normal... untill it is very serious.

I am a greenhorn when it comes to treatments as I am so new in owning a cockatiel ( never had a bird before ) But I beleive you done the right thing, getting 2 opinions is never wrong and yes antibiotics got a good and a bad side, we all know this.
I also believe that the care you gave her made her feel comfortable and helped her to get better.

Yes, please keep us updated, and all the Best for your tiel


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## Armada (Apr 25, 2012)

scottrand90 said:


> Hi I tried calling the avian vet today but he's not in until midday tomorrow so I will call him then. With regards to the cage she's been in her current cage for 7+ years


Hi,

I'm leaning towards heavy metal toxicity because unless the cage is from medical grade stainless steel a 7 year old cage is extremely old and toxic and by the symptoms you've described I'd get a new cage asap. Also, it could be a bacterial infection due to poor cage hygiene. Every cage should be thoroughly washed and disinfected with a non-toxic product every 3 weeks (including perches, toys) such as GSE (read here http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww26eiii.htm ) mixed with water which is more powerful than chlorine. Food items such as bowls I'd disinfect daily because the organic compounds found in food will spoil. Hope it gets better!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

If she's getting better on antibiotics, then it's unlikely to be metal toxicity. A good-quality powder coat that is not flaking or showing rust should be fine, even after 7 years.


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## Armada (Apr 25, 2012)

enigma731 said:


> If she's getting better on antibiotics, then it's unlikely to be metal toxicity. A good-quality powder coat that is not flaking or showing rust should be fine, even after 7 years.


I've had King's, California, A&E, Avian, Caitec for my other birds (which are considered the "best") and they all lasted maybe 4 years in powder coat >.< I guess it depends on how often you wash, climate and humidity, etc. 

How is he doing btw?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I don't think cages really have a set expiration date. As you said, it all depends on the conditions the cage is kept in, and how it physically appears. If a cage is old but shows no sign of degradation, I would think it is still perfectly safe. I have two powder-coated cages that are 10+ years old and still look new.


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## Armada (Apr 25, 2012)

enigma731 said:


> I don't think cages really have a set expiration date. As you said, it all depends on the conditions the cage is kept in, and how it physically appears. If a cage is old but shows no sign of degradation, I would think it is still perfectly safe. I have two powder-coated cages that are 10+ years old and still look new.


Oh definitely! A few years ago they made better quality everything which lasted a lot more than today's products!

Now it's all plastic and Made in China breaks after 6 months.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Armada...welcome to the forum but please, since you are new here, we do not need more 'instant experts' postings. Please read thru the posting, and as Enigma pointed out the bird improved on the antibiotics, which is good. Mentha pointed out some serious side affects from Baytril such as blindness which I did have happen to 2 birds from the use of this med, and also liver damage. The dosage listed by the poster was in excess of a normal dosage (which is .06 per 100 grams of body weight) and would have also caused health issues. The bird in question had no indications of metal toxicity. And the caging postings are Off Topic to the main thread.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I'm glad the bird is doing better.


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