# strange light mask...



## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

hi 
i have a question about one of my couple... the male is normal split to cinnamon and maybe WF and the female is YC cinnamon.
they gave me YC babies...(50%).

i don't know if she is DYC or SLYC... (i don't think she is PF)...
so if the hen is DYC the male is a normal....
if the hen is SLYC the male is split to SLYC.

now i'm trying to breed her with another male...non split... to know if she is DYC or SLYC.

but the old male has got lighter mask and cheeks than the other males i have.
why???
maybe a split to something?

here you are some pics...thank you


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

some birds naturally have a lighter mask than others. tsuka has a very dark mask where my friends male has a much lighter softer coloured mask. i think its just an individual thing


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## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

the female cage was only for transport


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## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

it's very light...and the cheeks are orange instead of red 
i thought he was split to something that i don't know...
and for the female? she is YC for sure?


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i dont know, i am not an expert with the yellow cheeks, theyre rare and im not the best with the rare mutations. ive seen ONE yellow cheek in person, and i didnt get the best look at her


but the cheek does not look to be a pastelface, so i will guess she is a yellowcheek


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

Not PF, yellow cheek for sure. and she's beautiful! congrats!

As for the light masked male, i would say it's just because he is split to WF. Some birds have lighter faces as the split shows more then other birds. for example, Singerboy and Meanboy
Singer boy shows his WF split MORE then Meanboy and has a lighter cheek patch and everything.
Singerboy(i LOVE my camera!)

And meanboy(got a better pic)


In males, WF is the easiest to tell a split rather then females.
The way to tell is like singerboy, yellow streaking in the cheek patch, and a white 'halo' around the yellow mask. as well as sometimes an irregular shaped cheek patch.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

not always because of the whiteface split... the face isnt always lighter and duller with the whiteface split. tsuka is split whiteface and he has the largest and most vivid cheek patch and bright yellow... and he is for SURE split whiteface (his mother was a whiteface cinnamon pearl split pied)

its an individual thing more likely, as you notice the other grey male in the photo is also split whiteface...


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## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

WendyBeoBuddy said:


> Not PF, yellow cheek for sure. and she's beautiful! congrats!
> 
> As for the light masked male, i would say it's just because he is split to WF. Some birds have lighter faces as the split shows more then other birds. for example, Singerboy and Meanboy
> Singer boy shows his WF split MORE then Meanboy and has a lighter cheek patch and everything.
> ...



it's good to learn something new everyday! thank you very much WendyBeoBuddy


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## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

DallyTsuka said:


> not always because of the whiteface split... the face isnt always lighter and duller with the whiteface split. tsuka is split whiteface and he has the largest and most vivid cheek patch and bright yellow... and he is for SURE split whiteface (his mother was a whiteface cinnamon pearl split pied)
> 
> its an individual thing more likely, as you notice the other grey male in the photo is also split whiteface...


yes...tsuka have a normal yellow mask...


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

I was explaining that the split effects different birds in different ways 
by the way i got a good picture for you just now and uploaded it in edit to the other post so you have a better comparison 

And just like Tsuka, in comparison to my own birds. it's different. 
Singerboy has a more pastel looking face(not PF just using example) because the WF has actually toned down the yellow pigments in the face. he has yellow in his rump feathers as well though because he is split to pearl. The split has not effected those feathers..

And Meanboy shows his split very lightly, there is not much streaking in the patch and the white halo is thin as to singerboy's extended mask. 

it depends on the bird the way the split is expressed


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

fillo89 said:


> yes...tsuka have a normal yellow mask...


Tsuka's mask is extended just like singerboy(but not diluted) so that is not a normal mask, also his cheek patch is minimally distorted and has streaking. all signs of a split to WF


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## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

one of my males... i think he is split to WF too...but the yellow it's normal



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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

Things to look for are yellow streaking in the orange cheek patch, a lighter/white halo around the mask, and an irregular shaped cheek patch. Singerboy's cheek patch is sort of square shaped as to meanboy's is more of an oval. the cheek patch on a normal cockatiel not split to WF should be nice and round and bright red with no streaking. Even Tsuka has streaking in his *beautifully dark* cheek patch


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

we cant just label all diluted masks as split whiteface as some birds dont play by that rule. gotta look at the whole picture, and its hard to see the bird in this photo. if you look at the body colour he is a lighter toned normal grey, so i am thinking his mask has more to do with his light colours rather than just a whiteface split. there's more playing a role here. thats all im saying.


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## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

WendyBeoBuddy said:


> Tsuka's mask is extended just like singerboy(but not diluted) so that is not a normal mask, also his cheek patch is minimally distorted and has streaking. all signs of a split to WF


if a cockatiel have a distorted cheek but no streaks and no white edging mask... is split to wf or a minimal distortion is it possible?


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

haha i was explaining to fillo


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

WendyBeoBuddy said:


> haha i was explaining to fillo



i saw that so i edited my comment lol i thought you were trying to point it out to me


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## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

WendyBeoBuddy said:


> haha i was explaining to fillo


so this is WF for sure? 


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

fillo89 said:


> if a cockatiel have a distorted cheek but no streaks and no white edging mask... is split to wf or a minimal distortion is it possible?


It is possible because there are birds that can hide a LOT of recessive splits.

Using pied as an example, i have a cockatiel named Ari. She shows NO signs of split to pied, no white toe nails, no tick marks except for ONE feather that had connected wing spots. that is a split to pied.

Sometimes the white halo is so thin that it is almost impossible to see(when i first got meanboy, his was REALLY thin, it is just now starting to show more)

but then again, it's possible for the bird just to have an odd cheek patch.

And for the bird pictured, that is a split to wf for sure, the white halo around the mask is obvious regardless of the cheek patch


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

yes split whiteface, hes got a very lovely white edge... i think hes gorgeous


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

Agreed, that is one beautiful boy! and that baby's yellow is so vivid


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i've just put this together, as i am working on a photo gallery for myself and others, inspired by our expert here (we all know who  )


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## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

DallyTsuka said:


> yes split whiteface, hes got a very lovely white edge... i think hes gorgeous


thank you  for sure he is a good daddy


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

IF you would like another hen to use, Ari's cheek patch is really good for hens. i can take a real good close up picture to because she shows it pretty well 
only if you want it though


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

WendyBeoBuddy said:


> IF you would like another hen to use, Ari's cheek patch is really good for hens. i can take a real good close up picture to because she shows it pretty well
> only if you want it though


thanks, i have plenty of whiteface splits now though, but i may want it in case i redo this or for another collage... i'll pm you, lets leave this topic on topic


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## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

Good job Dally


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I'm just seeing this thread..looks like all has been taken care of, but i'd like to ask fillo to take a look at this thread on nestbox bedding:
http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27688


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## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

bjknight93 said:


> I'm just seeing this thread..looks like all has been taken care of, but i'd like to ask fillo to take a look at this thread on nestbox bedding:
> http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27688


 Why i nave to take a look at this thread on nestbox???


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

I think it is because of the lack of amount of nest box bedding that is in the nest box in your pictures.

bjknight, could the mother have just pushed the bedding to the side?


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

It's possible, but with the proper amount of bedding in there (2-3 inches) then that shouldn't be happening on the outsides of the nest box. The center is understandable where the bowl is, but the outside should never, logically, be bare. 

Please read it. You've either got no bedding or not enough. It's not good for the babies.


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## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

bjknight93 said:


> It's possible, but with the proper amount of bedding in there (2-3 inches) then that shouldn't be happening on the outsides of the nest box. The center is understandable where the bowl is, but the outside should never, logically, be bare.
> 
> Please read it. You've either got no bedding or not enough. It's not good for the babies.


i know very well how set up a nest box! i usually put 2 inches of bed inside the nest but the male in photo , and his wife, push the bedding to the side... in this pic you cannot see the other side of the nest but this couple want the bottom clear... and they are the most prolific couple that i have


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

That may be but every time they push the bedding out you need to add more. A bare bottom nest box can cause issues for the babies and eggs, eggs can crack, lose moisture and cause DIS and babies can get splayed legs. Prolific or not, you need to make sure they have enough bedding even if it means adding bedding twice a day.


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## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

that's what i do roxy... but when i found a submersed egg i stopped adding bedding... by the way all the babies was ok and very healty...
let's take a look to the mountain behind the mom 



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## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

she let me set the bedding well only when eggs hatched...but before hatching she does a mountain again...the pic was before setting up the inside with this two babies


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The link on nestbox bedding includes information on how to prevent the parents from digging down to the bare floor. That particular piece of advice was provided by srtiels, the most experienced breeder on the forum (she raised thousands of babies), and she is firmly convinced that good bedding is important.

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27688


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*yes...tsuka have a normal yellow mask..*
--------------------------

He does not. A normal mask would not have the white edging towards the back edges of the mask. it is this edging that indicates split to WF more than anything else.

*i've just put this together*

Great job....Tsuka is a very good example of the split to WF.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Tiels bury eggs for many reasons...I had one hen who hide her eggs til all were laid then uncover them. Or they bury them because they know those are the bad eggs. Regardless those babies need that mountain under their feet otherwise splayed legs is bound to happen. Burying eggs is normal and not something to deny them bedding over.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

The bottom of your nestbox is rough textured which is good as far as a preventative against splayed legs.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*... but when i found a submersed egg i stopped adding bedding... *
----------------------------------

Different types of bedding compress differently. If the shavings are thin and fluffy the eggs will sink, or not get incubated right. Bedding such as shredded aspen can be compressed easily, so that eggs don't sink in it. Many times just trying different types of bedding until you find one that the pair does not shove aside is all that is needed.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Also....pairs will cover up eggs if they are going to be off them. A pair can be off the eggs up to an hour with no ill effects. The bedding under the eggs helps to retain body heat to keep the eggs warm during the time the pair is out of the nest.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*so this is WF for sure? *
---------------------------

Yes....he is a perfect example of split tio WF. Now look at the down color of the baby. It is the normal yellow color. How you can tell if the baby inherited the split to WF the down will be a paler, diluted looking yellow. So if any of the babies that hatched had pale yellow almost off white colored down, then they would be split to WF.


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## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

thank you very much srtiels! i'm going to try what you've said! 
and thanks to all that help me


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## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

so if a baby is bright yellow it isn't split to WF??? and if it's a pale yellow it's split?

like this? http://s525.photobucket.com/albums/...?action=view&current=What-Will-I-Be-ILLUS.jpg


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Yes that illustrates different down colors and what they mean.


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## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

thanks Bjknight 

is this lutino pied??? she has got 9Yo


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

she looks lutino pearl pied to me, shes gorgeous. i see some pearls in her wings but not everywhere... so that would make her a lutino pearl pied


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## fillo89 (Jul 6, 2012)

cool  pied for sure...her primaries and tail are solid yellow... but pearl...it's possibile but the pearls are not very visible... maybe the yellow butter of pied lutino's only?


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

shes both pearl and pied with lutino


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Yes, I also have a lutino pearl pied..but mine's a boy so he has lost his pealrs  she is pretty.


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