# Any experience (good/bad) with body mass (likely kidney) tumor removal?



## adriano (Feb 26, 2016)

3 weeks ago one of my feathered friends suddenly went limp in his left leg. Suspected fracture because of swelling a blueness of leg. 

Found out that a reasonably near by humane society had a certified bird vet, so this Wednesday went to see him after leg swelling went down but leg movement didn't improve.

Xray and sonogram revealed presence of center body mass about a third larger than it should be (abdomen).

Doctor said that he'd be surprised if he makes it a month out and I should let him ride the time out with some pain med with his bird wife and kids.

Or, there is the opportunity for an exploratory surgery that is more affordable as it is through a humane society clinic. But he's not sure if the tumor is benign, malignant, combination, how it's attached to vital organs, etc.

He's said he's done it successfully in birds as small as a budgie but the odds are 1 in 5 and he more likely will suffer too much blood loss and at that point the only ethical thing to do is turn up the anesthesia.

I know from two previous losses (bird and rabbit) that birds need grieving and processing time and sudden abrupt inexplicable disappearance (pet rabbit who was practically a member of the flock died last summer and had to be instantly cremated because of the heat) will lead to trauma and pain and emotional disturbances for months.

My question is basically does anyone have any experiences or insights?

I'm thinking I'd be fine if even a partial tumor removal resulted in another half a year or a few months. 

Or if there can be an exploratory surgery but they find out it's malignant but it's not an aggressive surgery so they can piece him back together and he lives out another week or so with his family and friends.

I'm just stuck between a rock and hard place, he's definitely going down hill slowly but I'd prefer that than an operation where I go in basically expecting him to die unless there's miracle.

Even the vet himself advised against it, even though he's had success with such operations before.

He told me that if it's a kidney tumor pressing up on the nerve leading to the leg, then removing the tumor even if successful will only be feasible if there is enough kidney left over for him to function.

Or he may bleed to death in the middle of the operation.

Again the vet is avian certified and specializes in anesthesia and exploratory surgery.

I'm not worried about the anesthesia because he put him under twice in 2 days and he came back fine as can be.

Anyone have any experience with internal stomach area tumors, specially ones that started out with leg lameness (left)?

Thanks for your time and consideration.:grey tiel:


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

I had a young budgie, not even 3 yrs old come down with left leg lameness, took him to the vet and it was a kidney tumour, likely cancerous. The vet and I agreed the kindest thing was to spoil him for a few months and then take him in when his life became a burden and let him go gently, he lasted about 3 months, then I had hm gently released from suffering.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Birds just don't do well under anesthesia. The risk is really high. My father-in-law took a budgie in to get a uterine prolapse fixed and she didn't make it.


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## adriano (Feb 26, 2016)

*I'm sorry for your loss ...*



ParrotletsRock said:


> I had a young budgie, not even 3 yrs old come down with left leg lameness, took him to the vet and it was a kidney tumour, likely cancerous. The vet and I agreed the kindest thing was to spoil him for a few months and then take him in when his life became a burden and let him go gently, he lasted about 3 months, then I had hm gently released from suffering.


Thank you for replying. I'm sure you did your best for him while you could. How was his eating drinking, was he able to manage it or did it slide? As of yesterday my Fluffy suddenly stopped making chalky, clearly defined urates and they now get mixed in a swirl. There also seems to be more urine than before but he doesn't drink any more.

My main problem is I'm at a loss for how to go about doing this as he has a great but sensitive budgie friend, a loving wife and 3 great kids ... two of which are extremely emotionally sensitive I'm sure they'd flip if they saw him leave the house in the morning and come back "gone."

Thank you for sharing your experience. 

I just wish the choice had a more clear "better path".


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## adriano (Feb 26, 2016)

*Thank you for your reply*



roxy culver said:


> Birds just don't do well under anesthesia. The risk is really high. My father-in-law took a budgie in to get a uterine prolapse fixed and she didn't make it.


I'm sorry for your loss. Thank you for your reply.


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

adriano said:


> Thank you for replying. I'm sure you did your best for him while you could. How was his eating drinking, was he able to manage it or did it slide? As of yesterday my Fluffy suddenly stopped making chalky, clearly defined urates and they now get mixed in a swirl. There also seems to be more urine than before but he doesn't drink any more.
> 
> My main problem is I'm at a loss for how to go about doing this as he has a great but sensitive budgie friend, a loving wife and 3 great kids ... two of which are extremely emotionally sensitive I'm sure they'd flip if they saw him leave the house in the morning and come back "gone."
> 
> ...


He ate and drank fine, his poop was always abnormal once I looked back on it, from the time he was a chick he always had a lot of urine in his poop but he seemed healthy so I just chalked it up to just him. Once we saw he was lame in his left leg we thought he had just sprained it so took him to the vet who immediately suspected a tumour but give us meloxicam just in case it was a sore leg, if it helped good if not then it sorta confirmed his diagnosis. That was the only treatment tried. I am very against putting any of my pets thru cancer treatments. I watched to many people including a husband go thru the horrible side effects and will not do that to a pet who does not understand... This is just my feeling on it and will not judged anyone else who feels differently. When he started getting lame we separated him from the flock and put him in a hospital cage with time everyday to fly and play with his hen and chicks... He had 2 sons he was very close with and loved to play with them. He could not hold his own in the rough and tumble flock life and was always getting pushed of the perch by accident in the flight cage, that's why he was in the hospital cage. He lived 3 more months, pretty much pain free and enjoying life. Then he started to look ill, not eating, got very skinny and lethargic. I took him to his vet who agreed it was his time. The vet was very gentle and kind. Used a needle so fine in his chest that Beau did not even feel it, this put him very deeply asleep and the vet left for a few minutes to let the drug work and to give me a few moments with him. He then came back and injected the euthanasia drug directly into a wing vein and Beau very gently just moved onto the rainbow bridge. A very gentle and easy way to go for him.


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## adriano (Feb 26, 2016)

*Thank you for your reply ...*

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

It helped put my mind at ease a bit.


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## Janalee (Jul 25, 2012)

*body mass*

Oh I am so sorry to hear you are going through this! As you have found out, a limp is often the first clue to abdominal cancer in a bird. I took my previous 'tiel Meshach to my vet because I noticed she had developed a limp. Like you, I thought Meshach had injured her leg with her activities. But the vet took one look at my 'tiel as she paraded around the exam table and told me it didn't look like an injury; it looked neurological. I asked what would cause that and she said it could be cancer. The way she explained it that because birds have such tiny bodies, a tumor will often press on the nerves to the leg, causing a limp. Sadly more tests proved she was right. The vet never suggested surgery, but with some medications, Meshach lived with me about 3 more months. She was eating and didn't seem to be in pain, although sometimes I could see she just wasn't herself. I didn't have to have her put down; I just came home one day and found her dead on the bottom of the cage.
I am so sorry...sending lots of hugs your way. That was my experience, maybe yours will turn out better.


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## adriano (Feb 26, 2016)

*Thank you for sharing your experience*

I am sorry for your loss.

I am sure you did the best for your little friend in the final moments.

I am slowly coming around to the realization that this may wind up being the way to go for me as well.

Thank you for comforting me, I hope I didn't bring back any painful memories.

Thank you for taking the time to reply with your experience.


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

adriano said:


> I am sorry for your loss.
> 
> I am sure you did the best for your little friend in the final moments.
> 
> ...


My memories of my little budgie are not painful, although his life was short he had a good one he was loved by both humans and birds and we enjoyed our time together. He had lots of time out of his cage to play with his human and birdie friends, had a mate and got to have babies. He lived and dies a happy little bird, that is cause for joy not sadness... He is still thought of often and missed but his memories bring smiles not tears. I hope you have some more time with your little one and know you will do what is best for him, whether that is treatment or palliative care is a personal choice and I support you either way. I personally believe that for our pets, quality of life trumps quantity of life. Their life is no good to them if it is miserable and painful. If he/she is not painful and suffering then it does no harm to allow them to continue on until the inevitable. If an animal is suffering, the greatest gift we can give is peace and freedom from that... I hope that even if we have not helped we have at least eased your mind a little..


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

It's never an easy decision to make. To be honest, in your shoes, I would let him live out his life with his family then risk surgery and him not making it. This way he gets to spend that time with you and them.


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## adriano (Feb 26, 2016)

*Thank you both for your replies ...*

He has had 2 good lives (picked him up as a rescue when his previous owner became ill) ... he was obviously loved there.

Over here he became a mate to another rescue that lost a mate.

They had 3 kids in 2 different hatchings that are so great I know they're more than I deserve.

He will be missed by his budgie friend that showed him how to "budgie kiss".

My girlfriend was his "other lady".

We went out for many walks and the day his first two kids were born he insisted on telling everyone and everything, human, other bird, squirrels or what have you that he just had a (then 2) newborns.

He was literally so happy he couldn't contain himself.

He let the rabbit we had that passed away last summer practically raise his youngest daughter.

He was the first to greet the two bunnies we got later the moment they came in the household - he literally flew up to them and said "hello" and started singing to them.

They were 2-3 months old at the time and they looked at each other and looked at him singing and then relaxed for the first time like, "We're going to be ok here."

He wasn't much for letting me pick him up, but would never miss an opportunity to land on my shoulder and make heart wings and click/sing to me when I was having a really bad day like, "Are you ok?"

Thank you both for opening up and sharing.


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

adriano said:


> He has had 2 good lives (picked him up as a rescue when his previous owner became ill) ... he was obviously loved there.
> 
> Over here he became a mate to another rescue that lost a mate.
> 
> ...


He sounds like you have given him the best of lives he could of hoped for. He has been loved, not once, but twice! He has had the joy of a family. He felt compassion from you and showed compassion for you. He has lived a full live for a little bird... You are a great birdie parent!!


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## adriano (Feb 26, 2016)

Thank you for your response. I guess I just wish I had some more time with him (doesn't everyone?) but it sounds like he may be ready to move on. I guess the best I can do is get some pain meds, comfort him, play with his kids so he is reminded continuously that they'll be ok, and just let him ride it out with as much soft music and cartoons as he can enjoy. And then be there for the rest of the flock when they are dealing with it.

Thank you for your time in reading my babbling and taking the time to reply.

It is appreciated.


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## ParrotletsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

adriano said:


> Thank you for your response. I guess I just wish I had some more time with him (doesn't everyone?) but it sounds like he may be ready to move on. I guess the best I can do is get some pain meds, comfort him, play with his kids so he is reminded continuously that they'll be ok, and just let him ride it out with as much soft music and cartoons as he can enjoy. And then be there for the rest of the flock when they are dealing with it.
> 
> Thank you for your time in reading my babbling and taking the time to reply.
> 
> It is appreciated.


Your most welcome, it is never a problem to try and comfort someone who is hurting, it's what we all should do for each other, the world would be a far nicer place don't you think? I personally think that is the best choice for him, keep him happy, spoil him like crazy and when life becomes a burden, relieve him of it.


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