# New Dominant YellowCheek Hen - Also Cinnamon Pearl Pied!



## SftWrmRain

*I welcomed my first DYC bird to my flock yesterday! She's a DYC Cinnamon Pearl Pied, and a beauty! Her name was Hailey and so she will stay Hailey. I try to leave names the way they are if they are tolerable.  I noticed her nostrils are a bit red, and she also seems to have had some damage to the one on the right. Almost like it was torn or something. I hope it repairs itself. Anyone with experience welcome to chime in here about that! She's going through a molt, so pardon her ratty-ish appearance. I just wanted to show her off ASAP! :blush: Hailey's cheek color is darker than I would really prefer, but I'm told some just are. She's a proven DYC, so I'm not worried about that. It's possible she is in breeding condition so is throwing some extra orange to her face. Wondering if her babies will have the same color cheek or if the color varies by bird.

Also welcomed a "throw in" little boy from my breeder... she said he is "wild" and they don't get along. By wild she described him running from her and being bitey. He's 4 months and his mutation is normal split to WF and Emerald (she's an Emerald breeder). I got him home and have never held a sweeter bird! He's not bitey, and he doesn't run from me either. I don't get it.  Anyway, my 10 year old has taken to him a lot and he's been just as sweet with her, so I guess I just got lucky! Isn't his crest amazing!?? He just had a number for a name, so I'm going to call him Ovation. She clipped their feathers, so :: sigh :: they are unfortunately without flying power for a few months. I just hate that - my birds just *love* flying and IMO as birds deserve that right.









*


----------



## roxy culver

What cuties...the gray one has a face like my Fuzzy used to have when we first got him, I called it his mad face and used to tell my hubby they looked alike!!!


----------



## Cassie

They are beautiful!!!  Congratulations on the new babies.


----------



## AlbyPepper

They are both absolutely gorgeous! And what a crest Ovation has. Massive!!


----------



## srtiels

Congratulations on the new tiels.

Do you know the background on the DYC hen? I'm suspecting she has WF in her background. If so you will have alot of work to breed it out. I worked with DYC for almost 10 years. Below is a pix of my last DYC. I still have the cock, and the hen in the front of the pix was split to WF which caused the orange wash to bleed thru. With selective breeding you can (will take a couple generations) you can breed back to large beautiful yellow patches. 

Below are a couple of other pix's. To successfully get back to the yellow check patch that will never get the orange wash you have to find normals (any mutation) that have huge deep orange cheek patches and NO WF splits. It is the WF that reduces the size and shape of the Yellow patch, and at the first molt the the orange blleeds thru.

Can you do a close up shot of the nostril? What you are describing sounds like at one time she got a nail caught in it while scratching and tore it. I've had this happen and it does not repair itself.


----------



## SftWrmRain

roxy culver said:


> What cuties...the gray one has a face like my Fuzzy used to have when we first got him, I called it his mad face and used to tell my hubby they looked alike!!!


*LOL! He does look grumpy, but he's really a beautiful little thing!! His crest is captivating to me!*


----------



## SftWrmRain

Cassie said:


> They are beautiful!!!  Congratulations on the new babies.


*Thank you, Cassie!!  *


----------



## SftWrmRain

AlbyPepper said:


> They are both absolutely gorgeous! And what a crest Ovation has. Massive!!


*Isn't that crest amazing!??? It's a little wonky, but with all that weight the poor thing has trouble standing straight up! 

I'm thinking he will grow into it a bit and as an adult may not look quite so out of proportion, but honestly I love it either way.  Thanks for the comment!*


----------



## SftWrmRain

srtiels said:


> Congratulations on the new tiels.
> 
> Do you know the background on the DYC hen? I'm suspecting she has WF in her background. If so you will have alot of work to breed it out. I worked with DYC for almost 10 years. Below is a pix of my last DYC. I still have the cock, and the hen in the front of the pix was split to WF which caused the orange wash to bleed thru. With selective breeding you can (will take a couple generations) you can breed back to large beautiful yellow patches.
> 
> Below are a couple of other pix's. To successfully get back to the yellow check patch that will never get the orange wash you have to find normals (any mutation) that have huge deep orange cheek patches and NO WF splits. It is the WF that reduces the size and shape of the Yellow patch, and at the first molt the the orange blleeds thru.
> 
> *Ah ha!!! That makes perfect sense - appreciate the pictures. Now I'm irritated that I didn't already know that. However, the picture I received of Hailey looks quite a lot different than she looks to me, and to my camera. I'll attach it - what do you think?? Was she lit differently so as to bring out the yellow patch more, or do you think something else may be causing the more orangy-look to her patch? Or maybe the photo was taken prior to first molt? The picture was not taken by the person I got Hailey from, but her owner prior to her. I can contact that person and find out. Obviously she was bred by Kathy Short so if all else fails I can contact Kathy herself to see if she still has any records on Hailey.*
> 
> Can you do a close up shot of the nostril? What you are describing sounds like at one time she got a nail caught in it while scratching and tore it. I've had this happen and it does not repair itself.


*Dang. Yes, I'll get a close up of her nose in just a bit - have to take care of some chores and then I'll send that along to you. I hope that's not it, but if so not much I can do about it but love her anyway!  She'd still love me if I had a hole in my nose! 


*


----------



## SftWrmRain

*I went ahead and grabbed a couple pictures from the set I took yesterday to send along. I tried to pick one that was a similar pose/angle as the original one I was sent prior to buying her. Also attached is her nostril close up and a closer look at her cheek coloring.*


----------



## srtiels

The nostril is a injury. Quite possibly the original cause could have been from dust/dander of molting and she inhaled some, and in trying to use the toe to get it out, the tip of the nail got caught and tore it.

Is the pix you posted in the previous email of when she is younger? That pix does not show the orange wash. The orange wash tends to show up around the first molt if WF is in the background.

Unfortunitely many breeders started pairing DYC with WF under the assumption that the WF would improve the YC and make it yellower. When the chicks feathered the cheeks were a nice yellow...BUT they were also smaller and irregular in shape. As the bird aged and molted the orange wash bleed into the YC. What happens is WF does effect a normals cheek patch by reducing size and changing the shape from round to oval, and sometimes it will have yellow straks going thru it. When breeders saw the yellow streak on known birds split to WF they got the idea to apir WF with DYC. In reality you want to increase the size of the cheek patch. The larger it is the nicer the yellow...thus you need to work with normals that have huge patches.


----------



## Cassie

See what happens when you pick your nose Hailey!


----------



## SftWrmRain

srtiels said:


> The nostril is a injury. Quite possibly the original cause could have been from dust/dander of molting and she inhaled some, and in trying to use the toe to get it out, the tip of the nail got caught and tore it.
> 
> * How unfortunate. Hopefully it doesn't give her current problems, do you think?*
> 
> Is the pix you posted in the previous email of when she is younger? That pix does not show the orange wash. The orange wash tends to show up around the first molt if WF is in the background.
> 
> *The first picture was taken by the person who owned Hailey prior to being sold to the person I bought her from. That person isn't Kathy Short, however, so apparently Ms. Hailey has had several homes in her short life. I'm going to find out exactly how old she was in that photo when I contact the person who took it. I'll let you know.*
> 
> Unfortunitely many breeders started pairing DYC with WF under the assumption that the WF would improve the YC and make it yellower. When the chicks feathered the cheeks were a nice yellow...BUT they were also smaller and irregular in shape. As the bird aged and molted the orange wash bleed into the YC. What happens is WF does effect a normals cheek patch by reducing size and changing the shape from round to oval, and sometimes it will have yellow straks going thru it. When breeders saw the yellow streak on known birds split to WF they got the idea to apir WF with DYC. In reality you want to increase the size of the cheek patch. The larger it is the nicer the yellow...thus you need to work with normals that have huge patches.


*Very good information to know that only comes from being in the breeders circle, which makes you such a value here. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.*


----------



## SftWrmRain

Cassie said:


> See what happens when you pick your nose Hailey!




*Hilarious!!*


----------



## srtiels

As to her nostril, it is a cosmetic flaw, not a hen issue flaw. It could have even started as early as in the nestbox if the bedding was too dusty and she tried to clear the nostril with her nail.

On the plus side she is a beauty in regards to confirmation.

The male I posted is 8 years old. Even with the changes of seasons and stress his cheeks have always remained a pure yellow. Some DYC will have an orange wash from stress, *but*, the orange wash would also extend past the patch and bleed into the head feathers like the pix shown. But something like this is hormone related and slowly fades or is molted out.


----------



## SftWrmRain

srtiels said:


> As to her nostril, it is a cosmetic flaw, not a hen issue flaw. It could have even started as early as in the nestbox if the bedding was too dusty and she tried to clear the nostril with her nail.
> 
> *If you look at the picture taken early on in her life (apparently) when she had her yellow cheek patch, it APPEARS that her nostril is fine. I don't see any flaws, but it's possible it's there and less marked. I'm getting from your description of what possibly happened though that it could have really happened at any point in her life. Still, I sure wish I would have been given a current picture of her rather than being sent the one taken when she didn't have what are considered to be two pretty major flaws.*
> 
> On the plus side she is a beauty in regards to confirmation.
> 
> *Yay! I thought so too - and she's SWEET. Not like described there either, but in this case a nice surprise.*
> 
> The male I posted is 8 years old. Even with the changes of seasons and stress his cheeks have always remained a pure yellow. Some DYC will have an orange wash from stress, *but*, the orange wash would also extend past the patch and bleed into the head feathers like the pix shown. But something like this is hormone related and slowly fades or is molted out.


*I see! This picture you just posted shows a lot of bleeding out into the face feathers. If you look really closely at Hailey's face, you can see some orange bleeding out by her eye. Any chance at ALL that her orange-ish feathers are due to stress and may molt out? Also, when you mentioned pairing her with a male with a nice big orange cheek patch, does the depth of his color matter or is it more the size and shape of his patch that's most important?*


----------



## srtiels

Yes...some of the orange flecking may be due to stress. has she recently been set up? As to the cheek patches that is actual bleeding (not related to stress) of orange because the pigments are not suppressed.

Yes...a cock with a Deep orange color patch, that is huge and round (the size of a nickle) would work the best. And if you know the cocks background over several generation NO WF.


----------



## SftWrmRain

srtiels said:


> Yes...some of the orange flecking may be due to stress. has she recently been set up? As to the cheek patches that is actual bleeding (not related to stress) of orange because the pigments are not suppressed.
> 
> Yes...a cock with a Deep orange color patch, that is huge and round (the size of a nickle) would work the best. And if you know the cocks background over several generation NO WF.


Finally back from a short weekend trip. I am not sure when she was last set up, but her previous owner said when she was, she laid infertile eggs. However, she said the same male that was with Hailey is now with another hen who is also sitting on infertiles. Hopefully it isn't her issue.

I sent along her pedigree info to your inbox, so I'll be looking for your thoughts on that.


----------



## srtiels

OK...I read the PM. It is defintely the WF split that is the problem with the cheek patchs. She has some fantastic line bred birds in her background which accounts for her nice confirmation. BUT I would personally try to get away from the cinnamon for a generation or two. There is too many generations of it and eventually it could come around and undo all the nice traits about her. If you want to work with her I would suggest you be real selective and try to fine a good quality normal with no know WF in the background for 3-4 generations. Ideally you want the normal to have huge, nickle sized deep orange cheek patches. It will be the DYC chicks that have the palest yellow patches when they feather....and these will be the ones that inherit her WF split and the cheeks will get the orange wash at first molt to a year old. The DYC chicks that have not inherited the WF split will have large round cheek patches but they won't be as light or nicce of a yellow...BUT they will not get the orange wash later on. Theser are the ones to hold to pare with any other normal mutation that has large deep orange cheeks and no WF split. By the next generation you should get AWESOME DYC patches.

OK...the above is if you want to work with the mutation, which takes dedication and time. OR you can return the bird to the seller, and encourage her to breed her as advised above.

I hope you had a pleasant trip


----------



## SftWrmRain

srtiels said:


> OK...I read the PM. It is defintely the WF split that is the problem with the cheek patchs. She has some fantastic line bred birds in her background which accounts for her nice confirmation. BUT I would personally try to get away from the cinnamon for a generation or two. There is too many generations of it and eventually it could come around and undo all the nice traits about her. If you want to work with her I would suggest you be real selective and try to fine a good quality normal with no know WF in the background for 3-4 generations. Ideally you want the normal to have huge, nickle sized deep orange cheek patches. It will be the DYC chicks that have the palest yellow patches when they feather....and these will be the ones that inherit her WF split and the cheeks will get the orange wash at first molt to a year old. The DYC chicks that have not inherited the WF split will have large round cheek patches but they won't be as light or nicce of a yellow...BUT they will not get the orange wash later on. Theser are the ones to hold to pare with any other normal mutation that has large deep orange cheeks and no WF split. By the next generation you should get AWESOME DYC patches.
> 
> OK...the above is if you want to work with the mutation, which takes dedication and time. OR you can return the bird to the seller, and encourage her to breed her as advised above.
> 
> I hope you had a pleasant trip


Awesome, helpful information - thank you! So, you are saying there is little chance Hailey escaped inheriting the WF split, right? When I spoke with Phil Ferret today he told he has a couple of fantastic normals for me if I want to pair one of them with Hailey. He also has about 6 DYC that are already top of the line. So tempting!!!


----------



## lucymarie7

WOW what a beauty she is...


----------



## srtiels

I would avoid his DYC because looking at the pedigree he is the one that is responcible for screwing up her cheek patches. Sadly it was the exhibitors that came up with the bright idea to cross DYC with WF, not realizing that it will affect size and later the color. 

I would try someone that works with normals that has some Gresson lines, or try Rick Solis: [email protected] He has some pretty respectable normals and he has been working towards true normals with no splits.


----------

