# Stunted baby....



## tom123 (Jun 6, 2011)

Good day all,

Mating season is on full speed ahead, and the parents are caring for 3 little ones, 2 of which are growing perfectly normal. Unfortunately, although being the 2nd oldest, it's showing signs of stunted growth. It's not growing as fast as the other, and even the youngest outgrew it. The good news is that it is still quite active and alert. 

Please advise as to what I can do to assist this lil one out. I've started assist feeding some formula when I get off work. It's only been 2 days so it's not too keen on the idea yet. 

I read through some of the helpful threads regarding stunt babies, dehydration, and yeast development. If I understand correctly, since it is not in a severe state atm, offering a few drops of coconut juice is recommended? I happen to have an actual whole coconut fruit in the refrigerator. I'd appreciate any advice you may offer. Thanks in advance!


* added a few pictures -- the smallest one is suppose to be baby #2


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Rather than use what you have, go to the store and get coconut water. You will use this to mix the formula for the supplement feedings. Click on the pix below 2 times for a larger view, and you can print out the pix. Mix up these spices and add to the formula. Do this every feeding.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I can see the yeast, the yellowish discolor in the crop is yeast. It also looks like it's not getting fed as well as the others and also looks dehydrated. Keep it hydrated, I'm going to leave it at that as I've only had a few successes with yeast, most of them have died. Maybe someone more experienced can help you.


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## tom123 (Jun 6, 2011)

@*Mentha*: I was really hoping it wasn't going to be that severe.... 

@*srtiels*: I dropped by my local Ralph's and picked up the spices as you advised. Hopefully, brand is not a factor as I couldn't find the same exact ones in the store. Also, the closest thing to coconut water is the Vita Coco Coconut Water w/ pineapple, that I could find. Is it ok to use?

And just to clarify, I'm to follow the mixing instructions as stated in the illustration, and mix them into the usual baby bird formula, along with the coconut water? Or should I drip a few drops of the coconut water after the feeding? 

A greatly appreciate any and all the help I can get. Thanks!


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

Coconut water can be found in the international section or an Asian market. You could also find it at a health food store or Whole Foods.


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## angelmommy24 (Nov 20, 2011)

tom123 said:


> @*Mentha*: I was really hoping it wasn't going to be that severe....
> 
> @*srtiels*: I dropped by my local Ralph's and picked up the spices as you advised. Hopefully, brand is not a factor as I couldn't find the same exact ones in the store. Also, the closest thing to coconut water is the Vita Coco Coconut Water w/ pineapple, that I could find. Is it ok to use?
> 
> ...


Walmart carries the coconut water


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

And you're going to use the coconut water as the water for the formula instead of regular water.


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## tom123 (Jun 6, 2011)

Thank you all for the help...

So I'd have to heat up the coconut water? I'll go to the store again after work today. In case I don't get my hands on the coconut water, would I still be able to start using the spice mix?


edit: any suggested brand of coconut water I should look for? I have Ralph's, walmart, and target in my area...


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

There is no specific brand of the coconut water or the spices. If you can not find the coconut water then pedialyte will do. The coconot water or pedialyte is the fkuid you will use to mix the formula. Since you are doing 1 bird with a supplemental feeding the illustration is a suggestion on how to mix small amounts and keep it warm.


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## tom123 (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks much! I dropped by target and got myself the coconut water. The lil one is still not too keen on feeding from the syringe. Hopefully, it'll get used to it within a few days. I'll have all day tomorrow to assist. 

I encountered another issue today. My male has 2 ladies. All 3 of which shares the responsibilities of raising the babies, from egg to fledgling. The problem is, my pastel female laid an egg inside the same nest. She gets a bit aggressive when the male wants to get in there to feed the young ones. What would be the best course of action at this point? The babies are being fed well so far. Should I leave them be or move the young ones to the empty nest right beside it. It's only a few inches away. I don't want to pull them out and hand feed until another week. Suggestions?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

In looking at the size of them in your pix they are still too small to be moved to another nest. They need a parent in with. 

As to the hen laying another egg, sometimes pairs will do this (double clutch) when there are still babies in the nest, but usually they are a week or so older. When I have had this happen I would change the bedding so that there is clean bedding in the nest. The pair will teach/make the babies in the nest help incubate the eggs. I would leave them there and pull a day or two before the first egg hatches.


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## tom123 (Jun 6, 2011)

ok, great! Thanks for all the input, as usual!

They are successful parents, all 3 of them. So I'm confident they'll take on the responsibilities. I was just worried the current clutch might get neglected. I've changed the bedding as you suggested. 

With that out of the way, my only concern is with the stunted one. I'm starting to see more distinguished signs of yeast build up... Thankfully, it's the weekend and I plan on calling it in on Monday. This will give me a few days dedication to the assist feeds.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*I'm starting to see more distinguished signs of yeast build up... *

Here is a link to read: http://justcockatiels.weebly.com/sour-and-slow-crop-remedies.html


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## tom123 (Jun 6, 2011)

a quick status update -- Thanks for the link *srtiels*, but the thought of having to perform that on a chick this size, scares me... 

good news is that, I've been assist feeding it and it still goods alert and active. The parents are also doing their part in feeding all 3. The stunt one is gradually gaining in weight and size. It's learned to accept the syringe now, which makes my job so much easier. I'll take an updated shot sometime within the next few days and hopefully your trained pair of eyes can help determine it's condition. But I do think your remedies are doing its job. Thanks so much!


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Thanks for the update  I am glad the little one is doing better. between the Spices and coconut water the stress on his system/body is reduced, and he can better fight if there is a yeast problem. And it sounds like now between you and the parents what he is eating is going into growth. Eventually these little one do catch up to normal size. Some may still be small at weaning but by the time they are 9-12 months old they reach full sized.


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## Cryren8972 (Oct 3, 2007)

Can you explain the benefits of coconut water? This is new to me, but I'm always interested in a holistic approach. Thanks! =)


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

If you do a Google search on the benefits of Coconut Water for dehydration you will come up with links like this one: http://www.selinanaturally.com/Coconut-Water-for-Health-and-Healing-W210.aspx

As to the taste, it taste nasty to me. But I had switched over to it when it was suggested by a vet to use instead of electrolytes. It can also be used to do Sub-Q fluid therapy, when no Lactated Ringers or Normosol are on hand.


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## Cryren8972 (Oct 3, 2007)

OK, so it's for hydration. Makes sense. I will now dive into a little research before I hop off to bed. Thanks!


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## Cryren8972 (Oct 3, 2007)

Looks like it would be great to add to a smoothie . So it would be perfect to keep on hand for humans and birds alike.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

Susanne, I have a similar question, I've read recipes that you can make coconut water with coconut oil. I have also read that coconut oil causes weight loss and lean animals in animals it was tested in. My question is what is the difference between coconut water and a watered down oil and will it also cause birds to lose/not gain weight also?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Mentha....I believe the difference is the mineral content. Minerals are essentail to life and good digestion and nutrient content. i would suspect (only guessing) that oil would coat the intestines and block nutrient absorption.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

Thanks! That was just one of those questions that has been running through my head for a while to ask you, but I keep forgetting once I get here.


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## tom123 (Jun 6, 2011)

srtiels said:


> In looking at the size of them in your pix they are still too small to be moved to another nest. They need a parent in with.
> 
> As to the hen laying another egg, sometimes pairs will do this (double clutch) when there are still babies in the nest, but usually they are a week or so older. When I have had this happen I would change the bedding so that there is clean bedding in the nest. The pair will teach/make the babies in the nest help incubate the eggs. I would leave them there and pull a day or two before the first egg hatches.




It's been over a week and the lil one is still gaining, little by little. He's only gained about 29g since I assist fed it. Still very alert and active, and understand the syringe as feeding time. how long should I continue with the coconut water and spices?

A few questions regarding your statement above. The second clutch is up to 4 eggs now and although the current clutch is being taken care of, I'm a bit worried of the size difference. If you'll notice in the pictures, baby #1 is well feathered, while baby #3 is smaller, and of course, the poor stunted baby #2, whose playing catch up. I worry the parents are cutting back the feeding amount and/or adjusting to baby #1's growth. Should I continue leaving the babies in there or should I take baby #1 out and hand feed or perhaps the stunted baby instead? 

Also, while it may not be in the correct thread, I think I'll just ask here rather than cluttering the forum. mutations anyone?? probably too early for sexing. I'll poke at it myself and see how well it matches up with the experts! 

picture 1 = baby #1 --> normal gray split pied
picture 2 = baby #2 --> pied
picture 3 = baby #3 --> pastel or WF?
picture 4 = baby #3 --> its down was not really white even at birth


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## RexiesMuM (Sep 7, 2011)

They are looking really good and the stunted baby looks alot better


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

The spice mix should only be used for a short time, maybe a week-10 days tops. If you are planning to pull them anyway, now would be the time to do it. Since there are only three, do not leave a single baby in the nest, pull all or only one. I'd pull the stunted one if you only want to pull one. You would have a better chance of monitoring it's weight and intake.


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## tom123 (Jun 6, 2011)

@*RexiesMuM*: Thanks! Really hoping he/she will pull through!

@*Mentha*: Thanks for the input! Since I was planning to hand feed them myself anyways, I think I'll pull all of them together. This will give the parents some needed rest before the second clutch arrives. Thanks!


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## tom123 (Jun 6, 2011)

an update on the stunted baby...

since pulling all 3 out for hand feeding, I've had a difficult time feeding the other 2, whereas, the stunted baby is gaining in weight and appetite. His/her crop bulges when it's super ultra full, and empties when hunger strikes. Thanks you all for helping me save this lil one's life. The oldest is beginning to experiment with millets, greens, and pellets, while the other one finally understand the meaning of the syringe!


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## Cryren8972 (Oct 3, 2007)

That's good to hear! =) I love success stories! The older babies take a little while to get used to being hand fed....so that sounds pretty normal actually.


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## tom123 (Jun 6, 2011)

Let's hope he/she picks it up soon....


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## Cryren8972 (Oct 3, 2007)

He/she should. Just be patient and keep trying. I haven't had a baby starve on me yet, thought I've had a few worry me. LOL!


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## tom123 (Jun 6, 2011)

thanks for the reassurance!


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## Cryren8972 (Oct 3, 2007)

No problem, these little guys can shake your confidence sometimes. =) You feel like you can take on the world though when you work through something with them.


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