# Very long and dry poop since converting to pellets(harrison's)



## ancamo (Jun 27, 2011)

All right so I was very successful in converting my 4 months old cockatiel to Harrison's pellets, it took about 3-4 days before she would eat them from her usual bowl in her cage just like seeds, I feel very lucky.

But ever since she's on pellets exclusively (also some millet and veggies and eggs) I noticed that her poop changed. They are now very long and dry and I see almost no liquid, and also I think she is even eating it a bit. They are very sticky poop as well , like the whole think will stick on her legs and she will carry it around in her cage.

Now it's been like this for about 1 or 2 days and it really coincides with the food change, so I'm just wondering if it's gonna come back to normal or if I should be doing something to help ?

Thanks for your help

Pascal


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## KTyne (Apr 16, 2011)

Sounds to me like she isn't drinking enough water to balance out the dryness of the pellets.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Pellets are beneficial but there's no need to eliminate seeds from a cockatiel's diet. They are seed eaters in the wild. Adding a little more seed to the diet might help.

How did you persuade her to eat pellets - by giving her a free choice or by removing the seed so she had to eat pellets or go hungry?


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## ancamo (Jun 27, 2011)

I gave her her normal seeds in the morning let her eat a lot and switched to pellets until the night when I gave seeds again. Then during the day I also played with her with the pellets, put some on my iPhone with which she loves to play on and she would eat them and play with them. Then she started eating more and more of the pellets from her usual food bowl until I saw her eat in there as often as she was eating seeds. 

I still give her millet 2-3 times a day and let her eat from a seed stick once in while. 

I will re-introduce more seeds slowly but I don't want her to starve either waiting for the seeds and not eat pellets.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

How often are you feeding eggs? Feeding eggs is not advised if you feed pellets because it can cause a protein overload and make your bird ill. Too many pellets can also cause health problems too. Pellets should only consist of about 20-30% of the daily diet, the rest should be seed and fresh foods.


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## ancamo (Jun 27, 2011)

Tanks for the advice!
But I seem to be getting very contradictory advises on the use of pellets. 

My vet suggests as less seed as possible and use HBF pellets. 
HBF recommends their pellets to be 90% of the birds diet ( I understand they want to sell their product but if their recommendation would cause harm to the birds, at the price they sell their stuff they'd be out of business)

And people on the board suggests anything between 20 to 70% of the diet to be pellets. 

I'm not saying you are wrong I'm just saying I'm confused. 

Maybe HBF pellets are different from other brands and can constitute a higher % of the diet? Aren't they made from seeds in part after all?

Thanks for your comments and help 
I'll do more searching 

Pascal


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i dont think it matters brand of pellets. the amount mentha mentioned is about right. too much pellets can cause kidney problems


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Research has shown that cockatiels do OK on 80% pellets. No one knows the perfect amount but there are a lot of different opinions, so contradictory advice is normal. There are some people who think zero is the correct percentage although I haven't met any of these lately.

The perceived problem with pellets is that they are a highly processed food and no one really knows what the longterm effect is of feeding them as a high percentage of the diet. We know that highly processed foods have been bad for humans, but pellets are intended to be more nutritious than processed food for humans.

My own preference is to offer a wide variety of healthy foods including pellets, seed, sprouts, veggies, etc, and let the birds eat what they want. They seem to have a natural wisdom about what they need, and every bird eats some of everything. With food items that they'd abuse (like egg) I only provide a small amount so I know they're not overeating. I offer Harrisons and Zupreem pellets, plus Nutriberries which I count as pellets. The percentage of pellets that they choose to eat is probably something like 20-25% of the diet.


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

The reason for conflicting information is there are some old timers who think, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." & "If it works for me, it works for my birds." Not everyone has done extensive research or have old and outdated info to go by. When Tom Roudybush began his cockatiel breeding program at UC Davis he was feeding pellets exclusively, then through trial & error they found out that the amount of protein needed for other species was bad for cockatiels and caused health issues. Other species of parrots may be able to eat pellets exclusively, but cockatiels are not one of those species. They along with a few others like AG's are prone to liver and kidney failure if fed exclusively on pellets.


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## ancamo (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks everyone, I was also going by what I read in Diane Grindol's book "Cockatiels for dummys". Where she states pellets should be the main food and other foods offered as treats ! 

I'll try to get a more up to date opinion from her as well and re-think the whole thing 

Pascal


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

The poop sounds like a bird that is starving and dehydrated. She may not be willingly eating the pellets...but more to just survive. I have known birds to starve and die during this type of diet conversion.

There is *NOTHING* wrong with a seed diet. As Mentha mentioned 20-30% of the diet. The diet should be *varied and free choice* meaning that all types of foods should be presented and available in separate dishes for the bird to choose when and what they prefer to eat.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Part of the problem is that avian vets aren't particularly well informed about bird nutrition and only know what they read in their textbooks. A major avian medical textbook that talks about nutrition and recommends a high-pellet diet has Gregory Harrison as a co-author, as in Harrisons Bird Food, and I've heard that the earlier edition of the text (at least) also had input from a Kaytee executive. Kinda seems like a conflict of interest when pellet manufacturers write the textbook, doesn't it? I don't question Dr Harrison's sincerity but I do question his objectivity.


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## ancamo (Jun 27, 2011)

So where does the good nutrition information for birds come from then? Those 20 to 30 % numbers are based on what and who? Personal experience, opinions, studies?

Sorry for all those question, just trying to get more info 

Pascal


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Mostly personal experience and opinions I think... there hasn't been a whole lot of research on parrot nutrition in general, and most of the available info on bird nutrition has come from poultry studies for farming purposes, which has VERY different goals than we have for our pets. But when there are studies on pet birds, cockatiels are frequently used since they're common.

There's an excellent bird nutrition group at http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FeedingFeathers/ They're oriented toward a more natural diet but they recognize the value of pellets. One of the owners, Shauna, has a lot of contacts with avian vets so she gets sort of an insider's view of what they're thinking.

You have to join the group to read the posts. If you do, this post seems like a good place to start:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FeedingFeathers/message/70955


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## ancamo (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks tielfan, I just subscribed to the group 

I'm thinking maybe we should see it the other way around? Seeds should consist of 20 % of their diet ? The rest being fruits veggies(including leafs etc ) and pellets?


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## KateBascombe (Sep 27, 2010)

I had a similar problem switching one of my lovebirds to Harrison's, even though his diet was still part seed. It cleared up in a few days. But I now offer him Harrisons, The colourful Zupreem pellets, seed, fresh vegetables, and grit (vet recommended because he's 14 yrs old and we're worried about his digestion. Most don't recommend grit for cockatiels) The problem hasn't occurred since, so I think it was just a transitional thing.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> I'm thinking maybe we should see it the other way around? Seeds should consist of 20 % of their diet ?


I'm sure there are people who do see it that way. The truth is that nobody knows what the perfect diet is.

The nutrition group isn't going to recommend an 80% pellet diet because that just isn't the direction they lean in. But if you want to raise the subject there, it's a good place for a discussion of the pros and cons of different diet mixes.


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## ancamo (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks Kate, I was so concentrated on the diet that I forgot to mention that the poops are getting a lot better now more like it was before just a bit more on the brown side (normal on Harrison's)

So I'm not as worried anymore 

And thanks tielfan for the links and infos

Pascal


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