# Why do her wing tips cross?



## Athyx (Jan 7, 2012)

I've noticed that Punk's wingtips cross at varying degrees. I also think I've read somewhere that its cause by some kind of vitamin deficiency? 

She was perfectly healthy when checked out at the vet in May and she's an amazingly agile and FAST flyer. She eats mostly seed during the day while I'm at work but her and Loki get a huge leaf of Romaine lettuce in the evening for dinner. My attempts to get them to sample pellets have met with large scale resistance so far but I'm still trying. 

Her wings were clipped when I first got her when she was about 4months or so, going through her first moult. I never clipped them after since and as of about mid-june she started flying. 

Here is a pic of what her wings look like whenever she's sitting. Whenever she's moving they're crossed to a lesser degree, just towards the very tips, but my phone doesn't handle moving subjects well.


----------



## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

It's actually genetic.
The structure of the bird helps with how they hold their wings and if they cross or don't cross. Ari would be an excellent show bird as her wings do not cross, but Singerboy and Meanboy's wings do cross. it just depends/


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Bad breeding has led to birds with bad conformation...but that doesn't mean we love them any less.


----------



## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

Its not a health problem dont worry its just genetic variation between cockatiels, some tiels have perfectly straight wings that dont cross and some have wings that cross. There is nothing wrong with a tiel whose wings cross, though straight non crossing wings are the desired trait for people who show cockatiels, but if your bird is just a pet it doesnt really matter. Both of my tiels have wing tips that overlap slightly.


----------



## Athyx (Jan 7, 2012)

WendyBeoBuddy said:


> It's actually genetic.
> The structure of the bird helps with how they hold their wings and if they cross or don't cross. Ari would be an excellent show bird as her wings do not cross, but Singerboy and Meanboy's wings do cross. it just depends/





roxy culver said:


> Bad breeding has led to birds with bad conformation...but that doesn't mean we love them any less.





xoxsarahxox said:


> Its not a health problem dont worry its just genetic variation between cockatiels, some tiels have perfectly straight wings that dont cross and some have wings that cross. There is nothing wrong with a tiel whose wings cross, though straight non crossing wings are the desired trait for cockatiels for people who show cockatiels, but if your bird is just a pet it doesnt really matter. Both of my tiels have wing tips that overlap slightly.


Thanks all so much for clearing that up . Not so worried anymore. Looking back at pics from first getting Loki I've noticed that Loki's wings cross slightly towards the ends. My next question would be to ask if it is a bad idea to breed them together. Since Loki's plucking has been clearing up nicely, I was hoping to breed them once next spring or fall because I have two friends who would like a baby or two and I had success with the 2 clutches of hand tamed budgie babies I've had. Neither of my friends (or me) will ever be professional breeders or bird showers. We just love birds .

My official question would be: Will parents who both have the gene cause any sort of deformed chicks?


----------



## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

It is not bad to breed them together. There is no difference in a bird whose wings cross and whose don't unless you are planning on showing the babies.
i don't know if the babies will come out wing crossed if one parent does not but it does not really matter.

i'm sure the babies will be adorable to!


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Its not bad breeding and there's no real genetic defect, just for people who show birds its not aesthetically pleasing. You should get healthy babies from the pair.


----------



## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I personally would not breed that bird. Breeders need to be careful that they are improving the next generation. If both your birds' wings cross I would not risk it. If you must breed her, I would find a bird that does not have crossed wings and is wide in the body to breed to her, this would help curb the bad wings in the next generation.


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> I would find a bird that does not have crossed wings and is wide in the body to breed to her, this would help curb the bad wings in the next generation.


Good recommendation, only thing is, do you mean longer body? A wider body can mean the bird has liver issues or a shorter lifespan (don't quote me, it was something srtiels had said one time that I read.)


----------



## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

I mean you want a bird with wide shoulders, but proportioned to the body. This would also imply that the bird is heavier build too. Having wide hips is also good, but once again proportioned to the rest of the body. I find in my own birds those with crossed wings have narrow shoulders and hips and are usually longer than the rest of their body calls for. If that makes sense?


----------



## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Haha yes it does, a bigger build of bird is better. My cinnamons tend to be bigger in build then my other birds (except for my WF lutino, she's huge!)


----------



## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

ari has perfect proportions and wide shoulders


----------



## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

Ari is beautiful


----------



## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

thank you! sadly,she is way to good of a flyer and her wings have been clipped since these pictures were taken.


----------



## Athyx (Jan 7, 2012)

WendyBeoBuddy said:


> It is not bad to breed them together. There is no difference in a bird whose wings cross and whose don't unless you are planning on showing the babies.
> i don't know if the babies will come out wing crossed if one parent does not but it does not really matter.
> 
> i'm sure the babies will be adorable to!


Nope not going to show them! Doubt there are any bird shows around here within driving distance anyways . I'm sure hoping the babies will be adorable as well!



roxy culver said:


> Its not bad breeding and there's no real genetic defect, just for people who show birds its not aesthetically pleasing. You should get healthy babies from the pair.


Thanks for the reassurance . I couldn't breed them knowing that their genes would produce deformed babies. 



Mentha said:


> I personally would not breed that bird. Breeders need to be careful that they are improving the next generation. If both your birds' wings cross I would not risk it. If you must breed her, I would find a bird that does not have crossed wings and is wide in the body to breed to her, this would help curb the bad wings in the next generation.


I'm not planning to be a breeder . Just one clutch and its highly unlikely any of the babies will be bred unless I get some crazy mutation which is probably unlikely from a normal grey and a pearl lutino . I plan to keep it down to 2 cockatiels so another bird is not an option at this time. Maybe next year I'll think about it when I look into breeding Tiels. If I start expanding, I go crazy. I started with 2 budgies and had 9 within 7 months . If I start with Tiels I'll run out of bedroom space for the cages (and money to buy food :rofl!! 

And WOW Ari is one beautiful bird!!


----------



## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

Even a back yard breeder should look at improving the species. Even one clutch of inferior birds in the wrong hand (once it left yours, that is) could be detrimental to what many breeders have tried so hard to accomplish. I guess what I'm saying is start with nice birds before you consider breeding otherwise you'll end up trying to fix your mistakes for years afterward. (personal experience)


----------



## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> Even a back yard breeder should look at improving the species


It's nature's job to improve the species, not ours, and "improving" the species to match human tastes can actually cause problems for the species. For example, the English budgie which has been "improved" to be a much larger size and has half the lifespan of the more natural American budgie, and assorted dog breeds which have hip issues or other congenital problems that were inadvertently bred in along with the desired traits.

I don't have any problem with breeding these birds together. Wings that cross are a natural trait, not a deformity, and it's pure human snootiness that decided that a bird with crossed wings wasn't good enough to win a beauty pageant. It's kind of like saying that women who wear a size 32A bra shouldn't be allowed to have babies because you need a bigger size than that to be Miss America.

Edited to add: we do need to avoid breeding in flaws that are not present in the natural wild bird. Choosing parent birds that won't perpetuate the lutino bald spot is a good thing, since bald spots aren't a natural feature of wild cockatiels.


----------

