# When you've done all you can...



## wings (Feb 12, 2009)

I posted a few weeks ago about my 4 yo cockatiel who became sick. We took her to the vet, the vet said that she had been hiding illness for quite some time because she appeared emaciated. 

Of course I was shocked, I had no idea, and Gypsy bird had been eating all along, and then what seems like suddenly, she is sick, and going down hill fast. 

They didn't even know if she would make if through the night, but was hospitalized for a few days and with tube feeding and antibiotics, seems to make somewhat of a recovery. 

Her poop was tested and came back negative. We opted not to do the blood work because of her fragile state, and also because we maxed out at $500 on her vet stay, meds, etc. 

Its been a few weeks and I've been tentative to say that she's better, although she has seemly been better, back to her 'normal' self. All of a sudden today, I found her at the bottom of the cage! I know she's been eating, but she also feels to have lost weight again. 

When do you call it quits? I don't want to give up. I don't want her to suffer either. I'm thinking there is something wrong with her organs, something more serious than what antibiotics are capable of fixing.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i am going to move this to the health section 


it might be best to do the blood work and a crop swab. she may have something else going on and it may be best to check them out, but i dont think it's a good idea to call it quits, you'd be surprised at how fast they can bounce back


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I also would not give up without bloodwork, especially since it seems like she was getting better, and still has quality of life.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

I agree that blood work would be good and fungal infection (or yeast like AGY) should also be considered. If the bird eats and still loses weight, it could be something that is affecting her digestive system. Maybe she had a bacterial infection first and developed a yeast infection as secondary infection later and even though the bacterial infection was cleared with treatment, yeast stayed. I am not saying this is the case, but it does happen and it happens more often than one would like to think.

It is very early to call it quits. It could be so many things that can be diagnosed and treated. My cockatiel Jerry dropped from around 125-130 grams to 76 in matter of two weeks and all she had at first was a bacterial infection. Later she developed yeast infection and I thought she would not make it. Her body did not digest at all, but I did not give up. She did not give up, either. Now she is healthy but indeed, it was a very stressful time.

I also wonder why they did not run more tests to find out what it was exactly. 

If you think she lost weight again, you can get a kitchen gram scale to monitor her weight (that is how I got alerted to a possible sickness both times my cockatiels got sick and it made me see the problem at very early stage) and get handfeeding formula in case her digestive system cannot digest things easily due to a possible infection. The formula is easy to digest and will keep her more stable in case she gets weak. Also an infection in digestive tract might cause some scarring and slight bleeding which makes it difficult for them to maintain their body heat, so keeping her warm will help her, as well. That way, she will use her energy to keep her immune system strong and fight off disease rather than to try to keep herself warm.

I hope all works out well for your baby. Keep us posted.


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## Madeline410 (Jul 13, 2012)

I think it's only a decision you can make. If you're looking for reassurance that it's ok to let her go, I don't think you'll find it here.  It sounds like she can still recover. Good luck!


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## wings (Feb 12, 2009)

birdsoo said:


> I agree that blood work would be good and fungal infection (or yeast like AGY) should also be considered. If the bird eats and still loses weight, it could be something that is affecting her digestive system. Maybe she had a bacterial infection first and developed a yeast infection as secondary infection later and even though the bacterial infection was cleared with treatment, yeast stayed. I am not saying this is the case, but it does happen and it happens more often than one would like to think.
> 
> It is very early to call it quits. It could be so many things that can be diagnosed and treated. My cockatiel Jerry dropped from around 125-130 grams to 76 in matter of two weeks and all she had at first was a bacterial infection. Later she developed yeast infection and I thought she would not make it. Her body did not digest at all, but I did not give up. She did not give up, either. Now she is healthy but indeed, it was a very stressful time.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the insight. They did not do further testing because they thought she was too weak for drawing blood. They did test her poo for any bacterials, and found nothing unusual.

She eats all the time. I wish I could just get some weight on her, but she is so picky, it seems impossible. Even though she is eating all the time, she is so skinny. Her little bone on her chest is so prominent. Being a seed junkie isn't helpful either. I bought her Harrison's pellets, but she looks at them like they are poison!

I'm just looking for advice and thoughts from more experiences cockatiel owners. I DO NOT want to give up on her, and I don't want her to be suffering either.

Thank you, everyone.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Does she ever try to take food from your plate? If she does, you could put a little cooked egg on your plate and let her steal it. Egg is packed with nutrients and calories.


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## farmbabe (Oct 27, 2012)

My old bird used to be a dedicated seed junkie. I tried a lot of different complete diets -- pellets and crumbles and everything you can think of -- and finally got lucky with Goldenfeast Australian Blend. It smells tasty. I mixed it in little by little with his seed and he took to it almost right away. Google it and read the ingredients, and maybe ask your vet what (s)he thinks of it. It may be too high in protein, or not the right nutritional balance for whatever is wrong with your baby. Good luck. I know what a hard decision this is, and my heart goes out to you. I've never had to do it for a bird, but I've had to make end-of-life decisions for dogs and horses that were like family. My daughter was a very little girl when she got her first hunter pony. She and the pony were the same age. Now they're both past thirty, and the mare has Cushing's, and I have to decide practically on a daily basis whether or not I'm acting in her best interest, trying to get her through to spring grass one more time.


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

If she is eating all the time and losing weight, it can be avian gastric yeast. If it is, the vets can take a swab from crop and do gram staining to see the yeast under microscope. When they check the droppings, they tend to check for bacteria only. Culture for fungus and yeast takes longer than bacteria. 

In case she has yeast, you can put apple cider vinegar to her water. I had 100ml water bowls and i put two drops. I also fed with baby formula due to lack of handfeeding formula but I think you can find handfeeding formula there and you can try handfeeding her with a syringe if she accepts it, because seeds are difficult to digest. I used organix apple cider vinegar and also my grandmother's home made apple cider vinegar and her digestive system started working slowly after 3 days of it. You should keep her warm at all times and keep her spirits up. 

The fact that she is eating all the time shows she is hungry because she cannot digest. Her blood electrolytes could be imbalanced, as well. You can also add pedialyte to her water and handfeeding formula to help balance them back. It makes a huge difference.

She needs vitamins (especially c and a) during her sickness to keep her immune system strong. The vet I contacted from abroad that sent me the amphotericin B also suggested I provide something like organic orange juice with the medication, but Jerry got better before the meds even arrived, so I did not try that.

If you have access to vets and amphotericin B, it would be good if you got her checked for avian gastric yeast. It does not have to be it, but if it is, better safe than sorry.


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## wings (Feb 12, 2009)

tielfan said:


> Does she ever try to take food from your plate? If she does, you could put a little cooked egg on your plate and let her steal it. Egg is packed with nutrients and calories.


She doesn't. The one time she started eating something new was when she saw another bird eat corn. Her cage mate is scared of everything so I can't count on him to introduce her to new things! Great idea...I'll keep trying whatever I can!


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## wings (Feb 12, 2009)

farmbabe said:


> My old bird used to be a dedicated seed junkie. I tried a lot of different complete diets -- pellets and crumbles and everything you can think of -- and finally got lucky with Goldenfeast Australian Blend. It smells tasty. I mixed it in little by little with his seed and he took to it almost right away. Google it and read the ingredients, and maybe ask your vet what (s)he thinks of it. It may be too high in protein, or not the right nutritional balance for whatever is wrong with your baby. Good luck. I know what a hard decision this is, and my heart goes out to you. I've never had to do it for a bird, but I've had to make end-of-life decisions for dogs and horses that were like family. My daughter was a very little girl when she got her first hunter pony. She and the pony were the same age. Now they're both past thirty, and the mare has Cushing's, and I have to decide practically on a daily basis whether or not I'm acting in her best interest, trying to get her through to spring grass one more time.


Wishing your sweet pony the best.


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## wings (Feb 12, 2009)

birdsoo said:


> If she is eating all the time and losing weight, it can be avian gastric yeast. If it is, the vets can take a swab from crop and do gram staining to see the yeast under microscope. When they check the droppings, they tend to check for bacteria only. Culture for fungus and yeast takes longer than bacteria.
> 
> In case she has yeast, you can put apple cider vinegar to her water. I had 100ml water bowls and i put two drops. I also fed with baby formula due to lack of handfeeding formula but I think you can find handfeeding formula there and you can try handfeeding her with a syringe if she accepts it, because seeds are difficult to digest. I used organix apple cider vinegar and also my grandmother's home made apple cider vinegar and her digestive system started working slowly after 3 days of it. You should keep her warm at all times and keep her spirits up.
> 
> ...


Wow-very interesting! Thank you. She has an appointment for blood work on Wednesday. I suppose a gastric yeast infection would show up on a blood panel? I'm hesitant to add vinegar to her water at this point incase it was to throw off the results. I pray that we get answers with the blood work. 
She really seems to perk up when I feed her Harrison's formula (by syringe), I just get nervous about aspiration when syringe feeding her. 

I am also nervous about blood work! The vets have told be repeatedly how traumatic it is on their little bodies. And she's so thin too. I'm so worried and feel bad about putting her through a harsh procedure. I'll do my best to keep her nice and full until Wednesday (her appointment). I'm glad we've decided to do blood work, I hope it pays off.

Thank you for the continued support!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Bloodwork is not overly traumatic if they do it by toenail clip. Really. I was worried too, but it was nowhere near as bad as I was expecting. Still sending good thoughts!


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## wings (Feb 12, 2009)

I think they draw from the neck...!!!!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Ask them to do a toenail clip. That's well within your rights.


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## bubbleslove (May 27, 2012)

Sorry to hear your tiel is so sick

I can really emphasize with u. I went through much the same when my last tiel was so sick

What about trying some Quinoa porridge. Birds love it and its so nutritional for them


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## wings (Feb 12, 2009)

*Gypsy update!*

The blood drawing went well for Gypsy! I am relieved. Now we just wait for the results. 

I'm SO happy to report that she has gained weight, and is at 76 grams! Woohoo! When she was in the hospital last time, her low point was 64. Scary.

I did talk to my vet about a *toenail clip* instead of from the neck and her opinion was that drawing blood that was is very painful for the bird, so we did end up having it taken from her neck with an insy little needle.

On a weird side note: the vet tech asked me if I've ever seen her regurgitate, and I haven't ever seen that. Just then, she threw-up! She did this about three times today at the vet, something that I have never seen! I'm not sure if it was because I let her eat too much millet in hopes of giving her energy for the blood work, or if she was nervous, or what! Very strange.

I'm so happy that she has gained weight, so proud of her! I hope she continues the positive progress...I guess we will wait and see.


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

So good to hear!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

There are differing opinions on toenail clip blood draws, but having seen birds recover from both it and the neck draw, my preference is for the toenail. True, it might hurt for a moment, but it's over super quickly and is overall very noninvasive. My bird who had a neck blood draw ended up with a huge bruise that took days to heal, and she was woozy from the anesthesia for 12 hours after. However, only one of my vets will do the toenail blood draw, because the other thinks it's an inferior technique. I'm glad it went well for Gypsy.


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## stevechurch2222 (Sep 25, 2011)

So glad Gypsy is gaining weight that's great news.


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