# Very big crop, suggestions? (kinda urgent, view pictures)



## fullmetalgirl (Nov 11, 2010)

Hi,

First off:
The bird already went to an avian vet. The vet suspect megabacteria, but says that it doesn't explain the very large crop. 

so now, we turn to you for suggestions, hopefully one of you know about this condition.

-The bird was hand fed
-The bird is now 8 months old and has been eating pellets since he was a youngster.
-The crop has been slowly growing for over a month (we've only figured that out recently by looking back at pictures)
-The bird hasn't lost weight but is getting thin.
-The bird is sleeping more then normal.

Does anybody know what's wrong with this bird? (not my bird btw)

He'll be going back to the vet soon for a possible "crop wash" but hopefully you can help us get some more info.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Oh my! How sad, I'm not sure what's going on but I'll be following this thread as I'd be interested in the advice you're given. I wish you luck.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

First off....can you feel the crop to see how it feels. Such as does it feel soft and bloated with fluids? If so this fluidy stuff *has to be emptied from the crop* What is going on is a psuedomonas infection and the body is regurgitating fluids into the crop, and as this goes on hydration happens and the kidneys shut down. Threatment is *injectable anitbiotics*....amikacin and pipercillin, and Sub_q fluid therapy for hydration (must be done first) This can happen to a bird at any age.

If it is not full of fluid, but partial fluid and food the inside of the crop can be coated with yeast which is causing a delayed emptying time of the crop. Antifungal treatment would be needed for this.


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## fullmetalgirl (Nov 11, 2010)

Thank you for your fast reply! We really appreciate it.
the crop is feeling soft and we can't feel pellets.

Questions:
-What is an antiful treatment? (we're dutch so some english words are hard)
-Can the infection cause him to feel hungry all the time? (he jumps at his food)
-Washing the crop = emptying the crop right? so that would be a good treatment in combination with the fluid and anti-biotic shots?


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes washing the crop can also mean emptying the crop. If it is not emptied it can fill up and aspirate the bird. Once empty for now mix some thick formula with plain yogurt mixed in and see if he/she will eat 4-5cc of it. It should not take long for the bird to digest that. if the crop fills back up with fluids empty again.

Anifungals is a term for any medication that treats yeast infections. With birds the most common is Nystatin....which is termed a contact drug. This means that it is only effective with surface treating and tissue it comes in contact with. The other type of antifungal is Diflucan....which is a systemic drug. This means it gets absorbed into the tissue and bloodstream and treats the whole system and areas that a contact drug does not.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

If you have a vet that is willing to work with you can show you how to do things ask if they can show you how to do Sub-Q (means subcutaneous, under the skin) fluids....the common fluids used are Lactated Ringers or Normosol. They are the type of fluids that are used on humans when they place an IV needle in a persons arm. With a bird the fluids are injected under the skin. They get absorbed thru the tissues and both hydrate the bird and can be a source of nutrients. I have did Sub-Q fluids for up to a week on a bird that could not eat, and it survived.

Also have the vet show you how to do shots. If a culture was done in the past and it did show a psuedomonas infection most vets treat with injectable Baytril. Of this treatment 80% bird die, it is not the most effective med for this type of infection, amikacin and pipercillin are.


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## fullmetalgirl (Nov 11, 2010)

thank you very much! it sounds like a logical reason for his condition...
I've translated it a bit more for my friend and she'll talk to the vet about it. Hopefully we can now do something about it. (he didnt get any medicine from the vet yet cause the vet needed to look in to it some more)

1 last question from my friend though:
Could it cause his big appetite? He's been eating non-stop and we're very worried. Hopefully he doesn't have more then 1 thing.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes....if this bacteria is in his digestive tract and upset the balance of the natural gut flora he may not be absorbing nutrients right....thus the supplement handfeedings, with yogurt if he will eat them.


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## fullmetalgirl (Nov 11, 2010)

I promised an update.

The cockatiel had Mega bacteria (and lots of it) and has been treated for it with anti-fungus. Because of this the crop is slightly smaller but still way to big. Current vet is refussing to do anything else so we're (me and my friend) looking for another vet. (somehow only dogs and cats are interesting to vets? It gets me real mad!)

Birds happy now though... I'll keep you posted.


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## mishkaroni (Jan 6, 2012)

Could it be a tumor, by chance? My tiels havent had one, but my keets have. I've been told by a vet that tiels, keets, and canaries are similar to rats in the way that they are susceptible to tumors, fatty or cancerous. I'm not sure how true it is with tiels, but out of my 30+ keets over the years, 3 did develop tumors in that same area.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*Because of this the crop is slightly smaller but still way to big. *
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The tissue of the crop would have gotten stretched out....and as long as there is the weight of the food it is harder for the tissues to contract and heal. You may have to fashion a Crop Bra to support the tissue to help it heal: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=20958


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

mishkaroni said:


> I've been told by a vet that tiels, keets, and canaries are similar to rats in the way that they are susceptible to tumors, fatty or cancerous.


This would probably only apply to certain lines of 'tiels that are very inbred. In rats, that is definitely the case. Many strains of rats -- especially those used in lab research, or related to the lines originally bred for lab research -- are extremely inbred to produce offspring with very similar genetic material. That's great for science because it eliminates a good portion of genetic variability as a potential confounding factor, but it also makes the rats extremely vulnerable to genetic defects, including tumor growth. 

So I would imagine you'd be looking at a similar mechanism in birds, potentially those that were historically very inbred either for show characteristics or to produce certain rare mutations. Unfortunately, with most pets, we probably wouldn't be able to determine whether our specific bird came from one of those lines. I guess my point is that while this is a possibility, I don't think it's true of all 'tiels, keets, or canaries in general.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*3 did develop tumors in that same area.*

The crop is a double thickness of skin and there is not an area to get a tumor. You must be thinking of the breast area which is below the crop.


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## leeisme (Feb 4, 2011)

I know this is a little off topic but it's actually refreshing to see someone who give a lot of information in their 1st post. anyway I hope your friends bird gets better very soon.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I agree with you leeisme, plus being thoughtful and considerate enough to give an update


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## mishkaroni (Jan 6, 2012)

My apologies for making it sound as if it were a crop tumor. I'd only meant to question if it had been ruled out. I saw the pics originally on my cell phone, but they were so big they kind of froze my phone. From my laptop, I can clearly see that her tiels bump is higher up than those tumors of my parakeets. But yes, my keets had it in their breast areas


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