# Help ASAP!



## Ichigo (Sep 7, 2011)

Every time my cockatiel lies eggs she starts to feel weak probably because of the lack of calcium, always I bring her to the vet and give her calcium shots because of that!

However I can't go to the vet now!

I was wondering if giving her HUMAN Calcium called Calmadin by Superherb can be given?? it contains also Vitamin D!

I do have the vet's injection shots..

http://supherb.co.il/En/?CategoryID=180&ArticleID=158

Anyone?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

See if you can find bird safe calcium drops at the pet store. The human grade may be too much for her and may overload her system.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If you have the ability to give her the vet's shot, I would use that. The human calcium product says it has a high level of zinc, which is not good for birds. If it seems like her life is in danger and this is the only option you have available, it might be worth the risk to try it. But I would use it only as a last resort.

Since your hen has a chronic problem with calcium deficiency, the best thing to do in the future is to bring her calcium level up to normal before she lays eggs so she can function normally.


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## Ichigo (Sep 7, 2011)

I have looked everywhere, none sell it in this country.

Right now she looks a little bit stronger but still she is weak, is there anything I can do to make her stronger? natural food?


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## Ichigo (Sep 7, 2011)

tielfan said:


> If you have the ability to give her the vet's shot, I would use that. The human calcium product says it has a high level of zinc, which is not good for birds. If it seems like her life is in danger and this is the only option you have available, it might be worth the risk to try it. But I would use it only as a last resort.
> 
> Since your hen has a chronic problem with calcium deficiency, the best thing to do in the future is to bring her calcium level up to normal before she lays eggs so she can function normally.


In case I have to use it as last resort and I really hope it won't happen! right now things seem more stable then before but just to know in case..

the minimal injection shot is 0.1, should it be even less then that?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

We'd better clarify what you mean by the vet's injection shot. Do you have the calcium preparation that the vet used, or do you just have the empty hypodermic needle?

If you have the vet's calcium preparation and know the correct procedure for injecting it, you can use that. If you only have the hypodermic needle, you should NOT use it to inject anything into your hen. If you feel that you need to give her the liquid calcium for humans, you should put a drop of it into her beak.

It might be helpful to feed her a little bit of cooked egg. The yolk contains calcium and D3 and a wide range of other important nutrients.


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## Ichigo (Sep 7, 2011)

tielfan said:


> We'd better clarify what you mean by the vet's injection shot. Do you have the calcium preparation that the vet used, or do you just have the empty hypodermic needle?
> 
> If you have the vet's calcium preparation and know the correct procedure for injecting it, you can use that. If you only have the hypodermic needle, you should NOT use it to inject anything into your hen. If you feel that you need to give her the liquid calcium for humans, you should put a drop of it into her beak.
> 
> It might be helpful to feed her a little bit of cooked egg. The yolk contains calcium and D3 and a wide range of other important nutrients.


Thanks for advice!

Is boiled egg good as well?
How many hours would it be fine to leave the egg there before it won't be eat able anymore for my hen?

About the calcium, I only got the empty hypodermic needle and also an empty needle to give drops orally.
What would be the smallest drop I can give her with that human calcium? (god forbidden if things go out of hand)


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Boiled egg is fine. Scrambled is good too. Probably the best way to give her the egg is to offer small amounts that will be eaten within a fairly short period of time. When you see that all of it has been eaten, wait a little while to give her time to digest it and then give her some more.

When birds are not breeding, egg should not be offered more than once or twice a week to prevent problems with excessive fat, protein and cholesterol. But breeding birds can have a small amount of cooked egg every day since they have extra nutritional needs. Eating a little bit of egg for a few days BEFORE she starts laying eggs might help her lay her eggs with fewer problems.

If you have to give her the human calcium, give her the smallest drop that you can. I don't know how to judge the safe quantity, so be very conservative and don't give her any of it if you can avoid it.


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## Ichigo (Sep 7, 2011)

OK! after more then a day my tiel struggling getting the egg out, finally she did it!

She is still weak though and I doubt the cycle is over because its only her third egg and when I saw it on the cage bottom it was broken, liquid came out of it..

Tommorow I will go to the vet to get her the calcium shots!

I found out about the calcium injections they inject in my tiel, it's called calcium gluconate, from what it says it really absorbs it fast into the body. since in this country for some reason in no pet stores liquid calcium for cockatiels don't get sold I probably will have to use a human one.

I will ask the vet more about it, hopefully I will get a normal answer, unless they want me not to know so I keep spending tons of money.

Other then that, anyone know about the calcium gluconate? is it a liquid calcium that can be given to the hen once or more per week when she is not in egg laying mode? orally? in water?

Is there any other popular liquid calcium for humans that I can use for my tiel?

I will ask all this the vet but I would like to have some opinions here as well

Thanks! hopefully everything will work out!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Does it seem like the broken egg had a reasonably normal hard shell, or was it a soft-shelled egg? Soft-shelled eggs are very dangerous; it's difficult for the hen to pass them because her body can't get a proper grip on it, and if it leaks inside her body it can lead to peritonitis and death.

The liquid calcium products for birds contain calcium borogluconate. I don't know how this is different from calcium gluconate, but the names sound fairly similar. This ebay listing shows the ingredients and the instructions for the brand that I have (scroll down to the middle of the page): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Morning-Birds-Liquid-Calcium-Plus-for-all-birds-/260658378651 

There are several ways you can provide it: by putting it in the water, by putting it in the food, or by putting it directly in the bird's beak. The amount that you use depends on the way you are delivering it and the size of the bird. Since your hen is having so much trouble, it might be best to put it directly in her beak. That way you will be sure that she actually consumed it. 

The youtube video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EBUWWqqEyE&feature=related demonstrates a good technique for delivering liquid medications. The useful part of the video starts at the 2:40 mark.


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## Ichigo (Sep 7, 2011)

I am quite sure it was a hard shell, right now my cockatiel seems fine and sitting on its eggs. (but since I threw his 3th egg away because of the liquid she probably will replace it and waste more energy on it..

I talked to the vet today, they said I can get CALCIUM TABLETS at the PHARAMACY, more then that they didn't want to tell me.. they didn't want to tell me which brand and the recommended amount! I told them I just don't have any more money to spend, every time my tiel lays eggs I spend hundreds just to get for my tiel some calcium which doesn't even exceed 1 MG. but looks like they care more about getting their money then helping animals out.

Can someone please help me out which calcium for humans I can buy at the pharamacy with not so high amount of calcium and other things which my cockatiel doesn't really need when it's egg bound?

A calcium tablet might have 250 MG in it, how does one make it so my cockatiel gets very little of it? does one melt it in water? thanks!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Look for a calcium tablet that also includes vitamin D. Magnesium is OK but not zinc or iron. If you can find a gel capsule with powder inside that will work very well; otherwise you can buy a hard tablet and crush it into a powder. Mix a small amount of the powder with the drinking water. I have no idea of the amount to use, so the best way to be conservative is to do this once or twice a week, not every day.

If you have something that looks like an egg, you can put it in the nest and maybe she won't try to replace the broken egg.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Check out and see if you can find calcium plus at your local pet store too...that's what my father-in-law uses for his birds and it has the recommended dosage on the back. I didn't know what it was called til I saw it yesterday.


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## Ichigo (Sep 7, 2011)

I got the Calcium Citrate for humans!

I know it's hard to know how much to give, but still a few directions might be helpful before I give any to her!

It contains 300 Calcium and 200 Vitamin D.
If I break it until it will be piece of 10-50 MG more or less.. crush it to powder.. in how much water should it be put so my tiel won't overdose on it?
Cockatiels take very small sips of water so obvious it's not like it will absorb all the 10-50 MG of calcium + vitamin D I think.. any directions will be helpful so I can have a clearer picture in my head of how much to put in water, and how much water there should be at least.

EDIT: I noticed that today in her big pile of stool there was blood in it! it's dark red! could that be because of having strained too much??
Other then that she seems perfectly fine!

EDIT2: while my tiel is breeding I should give her the calcium in water everyday?, I should replace the water and put new calcium in it every 12 hours?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

OK first, I would never breed this hen again. She has serious health issues when breeding so if that can be prevented I would do that. She is not in any condition to breed at all.

As to the calcium, because its human grade, we can't give you a definite answer. I would say less than half a tablet because of the high concentration in it. And I would say only once a day, not twice, as she could overdose on it if given too much.


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## Ichigo (Sep 7, 2011)

Thanks I started giving her the calcium, have to seperate the male a bit from that bowl of water so he won't take any high level of calcium.

With once a day do you mean only a few sips and then to remove the calcium?

Though I am not sure if the water should be little or a lot..
When putting the crushed tablet powder in the water, the powder goes on the surface of the water, tiny grains of the powder on the surface.. some also below the surface on the bottom. so if for example my tiel sips the water but that little sip doesn't have that little white powder grain inside, would that mean he didn't intake the calcium?

Is it better that many of the powder grains are near each other in a dense way so she will have more luck to intake it?

Thanks so far!

Have to keep my male away from that water bowl though..


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If the calcium powder won't dissolve to the point where you can't see the grains any more, she might not get any of it when she drinks. In that case I would sprinkle a very small amount on some moist food instead of putting it in her water. If she doesn't eat moist food, then maybe you could put a small grain in her beak.

It would really be best if you could take her out daily for some sunshine. Then she would manufacture her own vitamin D, and would be able to absorb the calcium from ordinary sources like cuttlebone and mineral block.


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## Ichigo (Sep 7, 2011)

tielfan said:


> If the calcium powder won't dissolve to the point where you can't see the grains any more, she might not get any of it when she drinks. In that case I would sprinkle a very small amount on some moist food instead of putting it in her water. If she doesn't eat moist food, then maybe you could put a small grain in her beak.
> 
> It would really be best if you could take her out daily for some sunshine. Then she would manufacture her own vitamin D, and would be able to absorb the calcium from ordinary sources like cuttlebone and mineral block.


Yeah I will take more care getting her out to the sun!
However before I see signs she is about to lay and while laying I will keep providing her with human calcium just in case.

Today my tiel was very hyperactive like she always is! it's a real relieve to see her like this after that **** that more then one day she didn't have any power, I am really glad this is over for now!

The powder grains just keep appearing in the water, doesn't look like it dissolves in any way..

She doesn't eat any moist food, she just won't touch it unlike my male tiel.

I guess I will try to put her the powder in the beak directly and hopefully she will swallow it!

To put a small grain in her beak, do you mean just one single grain?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

You want the dose to be small. This is all guesswork so I really can't say how much is too little and how much is too much. You'll have to use your own best judgement.


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## Ichigo (Sep 7, 2011)

Argh it's just impossible to put the grains in her mouth..

I will just have to put enough powder in water so enough grains will rise above the surface and hopefully she will intake some of it at least..

Anyway, Thanks a lot everyone! she is doing fine right now anyway!


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## BabyMoo (Dec 19, 2012)

My vet has recommended I keep my tiel from laying eggs. She is an older tiel and it would not be good for her. I feed her boiled egg and she loves it. When she start acting like she wants to start laying eggs I make the necessary adjustments so that she doesn't (12-14 hr nights, move cage around, take paper away, avoid dark spaces that might look like a good place to nest, etc.). It works for her and she hasn't laid an egg in a long time. If your tiel is no longer safe laying eggs, please talk to your vet about how to keep her from laying more eggs. As for the blood, please share this with your vet. Any blood is a problem and dangerous. Just my 2 cents. I hope your tiel recuperates soon.


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## Ichigo (Sep 7, 2011)

Thanks a lot for the advice BabyMoo! I will take all this in consideration.

As for my tiel's health, she can't be any healthier!! she is strong as a bullet! it has been 4 days and she isn't laying eggs anymore, I think she stopped sitting on her previous egg all together, but it has been only a week since then, usually it takes 2 weeks.. I saw one egg broken today, usually she does that on purpose, it's a sign that the breeding cycle has ended!


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## Ichigo (Sep 7, 2011)

It has been already a week since he last stopped sitting on his eggs (in total only 1 week) and today he again made those mating voices, when his butt touches the water bowl for example, bending his back in such a way and making small voices, when this happens he always starts laying egg.. why did he start doing that again?! he just stopped laying..


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

She has realized that the eggs are no longer fertile and is going to replace them. Those noises are her masturbating. Have you started the hormone control techniques yet?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Yes, she is getting ready to lay another clutch. You need to intervene ASAP. If possible, move the water bowl to a position where she can't use it for masturbation, because this activity helps to raise her hormone level. Give her long nights at the maximum level of 14 hours of darkness per night. You might have time to shut down her breeding urge if you take action right away.


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## roxygrl6009 (Nov 20, 2009)

My vet said my cockatiel could chew on a berry flavored tums...


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## Ichigo (Sep 7, 2011)

Thanks all.

But right now I have bigger problems on my head, I went to the vet and my male tiel has Psittacosis, and probably my female tiel has it too so now my male tile gets antibiotics. all this tests blood tests xray tests almost costed me $300! I am running out of money here..


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## bassamgaillany (Nov 16, 2012)

Give her the shell of boiled eggs. It contains calcium


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## MildlyAnnoyedBird (Jun 10, 2011)

Just saw this thread -- my avian cert. vet says Tums (the regular strength) can be used. CC likes the fruit flavor. The vet says human supplements like Tums are preferable to "bird only" products because the FDA more closely regulates the ingredients, so the levels are more accurately reported on the product labels.

She told me if CC refused the tablets, I could crush them and put the powder in her water.

Good luck!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If your female is ill, that would be an additional reason for her to have difficulty with egg laying. You really need to get her out of breeding mode if you can.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> Give her the shell of boiled eggs. It contains calcium


I would be careful with this, we had a member who's tiel's throat got cut open from the inside due to egg shells. Make sure they are finely ground up so as to not cause any issues.

Definitely try offering her tums and get her out of breeding mode. Being sick and laying is not a good combo.


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## MildlyAnnoyedBird (Jun 10, 2011)

Also, if possible, check your heat and humidity in the room. If for some reason you absolutely CANNOT stop her from laying quickly -- increasing the warmth and the moisture in the air to about 50% (more might make her illness worse, you don't want it DAMP, just not DRY) will help her lay the eggs more easily, as well as helping her fight off sickness.

Good luck


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## flippityjib (Dec 13, 2012)

I am just following this thread for my own information. Is there a way to prevent a hen from going into egg laying mode? As in, what can I do now, while mine are young, to prevent this from ever starting. Or is there a way?
Thanks!


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## MildlyAnnoyedBird (Jun 10, 2011)

Some hens will, some won't. The tips I've heard are:

1. Avoid giving the hen a place to lay eggs. Nest boxes aren't necessary for non-breeders and will stimulate the breeding response. Same with big baskets, large soft cups, etc. That's why people have those tents -- giving a bird a place to HIDE is good, but a big old soft safe place tends to encourage egg laying.

2. Change the amounts of light if she seems nesty or hormonal. In the summer, 12 hours daylight, 12 hours darkness is typical, and that's when hens lay. So if you simulate 'winter' by 8-10 hours daylight, 14-16 hours night, sometimes that will stop the cycle.

3. Cycle toys. Changing the cage setup sometimes will "disturb" the hen and make her think the cage "isn't safe" for nesting in.

4. Don't encourage her with touch, etc. Petting on the back or under the wings can stimulate her, so...don't! LOL. 


Basically, you don't NEED to make her so comfortable that she wants to lay eggs...there's no need. So if you don't, a lot of hens just never lay at all. If you have a male, though, sometimes they'll do it whether you like it or not (see my CC) and you have to jump through more hoops.

Egglaying by itself isn't so bad -- it's excessive laying that creates an issue. Hens can lay safely twice a year, or so my vet tells me. More than that and you have to take precautions.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Not all hens will lay eggs, but there are hormone control techniques that will help with those that do. See http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=32330 for info


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## cknauf (Aug 27, 2012)

MildlyAnnoyedBird said:


> That's why people have those tents -- giving a bird a place to HIDE is good, but a big old soft safe place tends to encourage egg laying.


Some birds sleep in tree hollows aside from breeding purposes, and those tents are really intended for those species. Our parrotlets (pair of brothers) cuddle together in one every night, and I hear conures love them as well. But these are species who would normally sleep in an enclosed space. Cockatiels only stay in enclosed spaces when they're nesting--they sleep on tree branches at all other times. Just a general FYI for anyone who's curious.


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## Ichigo (Sep 7, 2011)

I always put my tiels to sleep for about 14-15 hours in completely dark room.

I removed all items that makes her masturbate with.. however now she does it to the male tiel and obviously I can't move him or separate them, even if I did for a while she would just return to doing that.

I really don't know what more I can do.. I don't want to get into this whole hormone stuff.


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## Ichigo (Sep 7, 2011)

OK! she started laying again.. oh well.. looks like now I have 2 problems on my head.


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