# Toe Nail Clipping



## clawnz (May 28, 2009)

There is a sticky on this on the site.
But it is in correct on certain points that do need to be corrected.

*Nail clippers or scissors – equipment made for cutting human nails is OK"*
This is so very wrong. Yes they may work in the sense they will cut the nail.

But they will fracture the round nails of a bird and can crack the round bird nails. This can lead to infections in the crack.
While one person claimed here that it was Ok, one needs to study this under a microscope to see the damage human clippers do to any round nail.
Both of these devices are ok for flat nails, which birds do not have.
So please consider this before you use the wrong items.
It does not cost very much for the right clippers $10 for a cheap pair up to $40 for Av supply ones.

The other thing that could be added, and that I find helps greatly, is to be very calm and positive and the bird will pick up on this.
Also I recommend that if a bird does get stressed, it is let go or played with until it calms down. Before trying again.

One point that the post does make and is very true, but not often spoken about or excepted is that it is possible to get the quick to move back in the nail by clipping every 6 weeks ( can vary due to the birds health).
Why I claim this is because I have done this and taken very badly hooked nails and over a year trimmed them back to more normal size and the bird stood up and walked after that year. And I am working on another two birds at this time.


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## ollieandme (Mar 25, 2013)

i personally find that human clippers work great for me  when your bird's nails are long, they end up quite flat anyway.


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## catalinadee (Jan 1, 2011)

I use rounded clippers specifically designed for birds, personally


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## clawnz (May 28, 2009)

ollieandme said:


> i personally find that human clippers work great for me  when your bird's nails are long, they end up quite flat anyway.


Yes I understand that you feel they are ok. 

It is not about personal opinions, it is about bird welfare and what is correct and what is wrong.
But as I said if you cared to use a microscope you would see the damage you are doing. 
Ask any decent Avian Vet if I am wrong? It is that simple. 
I have said to one of the mods here when I pointed this out to them and they claimed the same as you. "Wait until a bird gets an infection in a cracked nail and then try stopping it before they lose a toe or a foot."


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

clawnz said:


> Yes I understand that you feel they are ok.
> 
> *It is not about personal opinions, it is about bird welfare and what is correct and what is wrong.*
> But as I said if you cared to use a microscope you would see the damage you are doing.
> ...




theoretically speaking here, it's okay then to shove one's opinions down others throats without it being "an opinion"?


unless a nail is filed, no matter what type of clipper you use on nails, they all do the same thing--SHEAR. so in the end, what's the difference on types of clippers? i've yet to ever hear of anyone get an infection from nail clipping. i have clippers meant for birds--they're still shearing type clippers. so, there really isnt much difference, in my opinion.


can't wrap our birds in bubbles.


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## Lulu-Tiel (Jun 3, 2012)

I use human clippers and have for a while now. I find them much easier then animal clippers.


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## scootergirl762 (Aug 27, 2013)

I bought a pair of notched clippers specifically for birds at Petco. I was tempted to use small nail clippers, but these were only about 4 dollars. I've never heard anything about flat vs. round before.


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## SoCalTiels (Oct 8, 2013)

Other than Clawnz rather rude response, I agree with Ollie, Meanney and Lulu. I've used normal clippers for years, always have, and never once have had a problem or issue come from it. Bird clippers are designed for birds, yeah, but that doesn't make everything else "wrong" as long as you're careful about how you go about it.


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## Haimovfids (Sep 19, 2012)

I use human clippers and I never had a problem


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## ollieandme (Mar 25, 2013)

clawnz said:


> It is not about personal opinions, it is about bird welfare and what is correct and what is wrong.


seems to me, yours is a personal opinion as well.

well that's fine. you have a personal opinion, and i have one. i agree to disagree. like meanney says, in the end you are cutting the nail, regardless of how, and it is obviously going to end up with a slightly blunt edge. i've never heard of a bird getting an infection in it's toe nail before.

i have tried animal clippers but they're a nightmare to use.


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## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

> This is so very wrong. Yes they may work in the sense they will cut the nail.


The clippers designed for it sort of sand the nail like sandpaper iirc.

I have personally used regular clippers for years but I do know there are some dangers with this.

This is a case where we ought to count our blessings. Scores of owners will not clip them at all until they overgrow, fracture, or cause an infection. Everything comes with inherent risk, this is a small one.

For what its worth, I have been looking into the correct clipper since it kind of freaks me out every time I do it.


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## Lulu-Tiel (Jun 3, 2012)

I just want to say something..... I have been involved in the horse industry for about 15 years now. While for some things there are definite do's or dont's, most things belong to the opinion of an individual. The horse industry is full of drama like this. You can't use that, you can't feed this, you can't ride like that, blah blah blah. Everybody does things differently, that's what makes us all unique. If the animal doesn't suffer in the end, to me that is the main thing. 

I don't think rude comments are called for by anyone. We all love and want what is best for our feathered friends. An educated debate is great but ride comments don't need to be thrown in. Just saying.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

We'll if clawnz is really into the welfare of his birds, then he would recommend we not clip bird nails at all. Overgrowth of bird nails do not hurt them (except in very extreme cases where the nail grows in toward itself and prevents the bird from standing or perching correctly-this however, should not occur in healthy birds); it only hurts us. So why do we clip, file, or dremel bird nails? *For our comfort.*

While I do care about my birds, and I realize any type of nail clipping can be dangerous and/or painful (accidents do happen), I clip my birds nails because I otherwise am very discomforted when they perch on me.

I use bird nail clippers, but I know of many reputable breeders and many many many regular bird owners who use human baby clippers. If it is any more damaging or painful to a bird's nails to use one vs the other, it is unnoticeable during or after the clip...as far as we can observe in the way the bird acts. 

I do love how confrontational clawnz is on the forum, though. It gives us all a chance to have healthy debates and show that we likely have opposing opinions. It is very entertaining to me.

Pass the popcorn?


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

One more thing...do you have any evidence about the damage done to a bird nail when cut with human clippers? If not, then I do not see any reason we should just go and throw out our human nail clippers and replace them with bird clippers.

I thought it was already made clear we take opinions and theories "with a grain of salt" when you don't have evidence to back up your claims.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

i dont like popcorn, bjknight. will cookies do?

if its not anti-wing clipping, it's anti-pellets. and now it's anti-clipping methods and anti-humanized birds. i respect different opinions, but trying to force your opinion on others by constantly posting about it and being a little too insulting about it, it's not the best way to educate, and not everyone is going to respect your opinion if you go about it the way you are.

i'd like to see VET records regarding this theory, not just web stories or personal stories  


the best way is the dremel tool, but not everyone is fortunate enough to own one. and they still have their risks as well. as bjknight said, risks with everything, and in the end, clipping nails is mostly done for our comfort.


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## scootergirl762 (Aug 27, 2013)

I would just like to add my experience here - my husband and I trimmed Stewie's nails yesterday. I wanted to make it as un-traumatic as possible so I had everything laid out - scissors, styptic, towel, glasses (for me, not Stewie . We gently toweled him and clipped each nail, snipping off the sharp bit but not much more. His nails are so tiny, the scissors are so sharp that I can't even imagine I caused any damage to his nail, even if I had used a clipper instead of scissors. While I always appreciate as much information as I can get, in this case, I'd have to say that everyone is going to go about this in their own way, but as safely and comfortably as we can for our birds. Having someone lay down the law and tell us we're all doing it wrong, without knowing how we do it, how much research we've done before we do it, or even putting a question out there on how everyone does this? It's just off putting and more than a little insulting. After reading this thread initially, and mulling it over a few days I think this has upset quite a few of us. Maybe the OP didn't mean it that way, but the tone of his original post and his reply to another poster came across negatively, at least to me, implying that we are all doing it wrong and potentially harming our birds if we don't do it his way - that is quite presumptuous. Regardless, Stewie was fine after his clip, he immediately perched and sat on my shoulder preening and grinding his little beak in contentment. I will take my cues from my bird.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Personally, I have both. I find the human ones WAY easier to use then the animal ones. I also am currently going to school to be a vet tech and let me tell you, I hate those animal clippers. They are huge and cumbersome and hard to see the nail to clip it. An animal's nails are gonna split, it happens. Especially as they get older (they get what we call old lady nails, ew!) When I was watching my brother's budgies and had to clip their nails, I was doing it by myself, one handed, so I needed the small human grade ones to achieve this. They never seems to mind it and I never cut a quick. So I'm really not sure why this is a debate in the first place, seeing as this is another personal preference type thing???


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

MeanneyFids said:


> i'd like to see VET records regarding this theory, not just web stories or personal stories


I would like to see a scientific research journal or something to that affect. Perhaps with accompanying microscope photos for elaboration? That'd be nice.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

roxy culver said:


> So I'm really not sure why this is a debate in the first place, seeing as this is another personal preference type thing???


I'm under the impression that one of our members believes that their personal preference is always the best and that what they decide upon for their own flock is what should "go" in everyone else's home. Most of these debates is solely in relation to their own opinion or belief, and not relative to any evidence presented by qualified researchers..or any researchers at all, for that matter.

My other theory for why these debates take place is that maybe they just like to ruffle peoples' feathers and thoroughly enjoy being argumentative, confrontational, and insulting. Sometimes I feel like some people purposely rub others the wrong way for their own satisfaction. I would hope that's not true, but it certainly seems that way when you assess the tone of certain posts and some threads as a whole.

I personally do certain things with my flock because I do what I believe is the best for them. But I do not look down on others or belittle them for doing things differently than me. And I try to understand why they believe their way is better than my way. And I might put my opinion out there too, and explain myself, but I am not going to imply to other people that my way is the only way it should be done. People have their reasons and beliefs and I have mine. They can voluntarily swallow my opinions and adopt them if they want, but I am not going to shove them down their throats.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Totally agree Bailey! I am all for discussion and debates but flat out saying someone is wrong will not win many to your side. Its the owners choice and trying to force them will make them not listen even more! 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## ollieandme (Mar 25, 2013)

Well said Bailey! I'm very open to hearing other people'sways of doing things, but i don't like personal opinions being pushed on me as the only right way.


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## clawnz (May 28, 2009)

Ok so I am back to this. I have been in contact with a few people I know and deal with.
It was never just my personal opinion here.
I cannot find anybody in the AV trade who backs using flat nail clippers on a round toe nail. Unless it is an emergency.

And I have to add our local Zoo will not back any of you using flat nail clippers.
Yes it can cause fractures. 
All any of you need to do is research phone people, don't go by what I say or any others on this forum!
What I have claimed can be confirmed! 
I am shocked by at least one here that I have alot of time for saying she has never seen a problem! Did you use a microscope to look at the fractures.

Someone who you may trust is Sertiels, so why not ask her?


Quote:
There is a lot of pinching and nails get split when fingernail clippers are used 

As nails grow, so does the quick inside. When we allow the nails to get too long, it is tempting to simply cut off all the excess at one time. However, the longer the nail is, the more it increases the likelihood that we will cut into the quick. Long nails need to be trimmed back tiny bits at a time. The slight trimming encourages the quick to recede so that a little more can be trimmed, usually within a week, until they are the proper length. Quote.

Using dremel or grinder is to file the very point off, but not much good for grinding over grown nails back.

http://www.shopping.com/bird-nail-clippers/products?sb=1 All types of nail clippers

And I am still trying to find any birds with flat nails? This must be a very rear bird.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

You're still trying to find a flat-nailed bird? Wow..what a waste of time. 

Know what I'm still waiting for? Evidence..I still don't see any of that in your post. 

Also, your link contains shopping results for both animal and human nail clippers. That's interesting.

Also..I'm out of town and on tapatalk. Can one of the other forum members please do a search for 'clipping nails' under the username 'srtiels' and then post the link where she says that you can use human nail clippers for our birds? Since we all trust HER opinion and experience. That would be a huge help!


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Nevermind guys, I managed on my phone. Here ya go!
http://talkcockatiels.com/showpost.php?p=260310&postcount=7


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## ollieandme (Mar 25, 2013)

pretty sure all nail clippers - avian or no - cut the nail. and the act of cutting the nail is still the same - it's impossible to _cut_ something without causing a rough or blunt edge.

maybe i'll get out my microscope and have a look at Bjorn's toes...


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

clawnz said:


> Someone who you may trust is Sertiels, so why not ask her?
> 
> 
> Quote:
> ...


A quick google search reveals your quote came from birdtricks.com, which is NOT a reputable source of information. Here is the article you failed to cite: http://www.birdtricks.com/blog/what-you-need-to-know-to-give-your-bird-a-perfect-nail-trim/

Failing to properly cite quotes of information is a copyright violation. Forum staff can infract you for that, if they choose to.

Also, the way you wrote your post it sounded like Susanne Russo had written that quote. She might also be upset that her word was wrongly identified.


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## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

Clawnz, at some point you have to give up and realize that you have made a mistake. It has been made abundantly clear that using human clippers on nails does not pose a serious risk to birds.

I hope at least that your intentions were well placed. But misquoting srtiels is making me seriously begin to question that.


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## TangoTiel (Jul 27, 2013)

ollieandme said:


> seems to me, yours is a personal opinion as well.
> 
> well that's fine. you have a personal opinion, and i have one. i agree to disagree. like meanney says, in the end you are cutting the nail, regardless of how, and it is obviously going to end up with a slightly blunt edge. i've never heard of a bird getting an infection in it's toe nail before.
> 
> i have tried animal clippers but they're a nightmare to use.





bjknight93 said:


> I'm under the impression that one of our members believes that their personal preference is always the best and that what they decide upon for their own flock is what should "go" in everyone else's home. Most of these debates is solely in relation to their own opinion or belief, and not relative to any evidence presented by qualified researchers..or any researchers at all, for that matter.
> 
> My other theory for why these debates take place is that maybe they just like to ruffle peoples' feathers and thoroughly enjoy being argumentative, confrontational, and insulting. Sometimes I feel like some people purposely rub others the wrong way for their own satisfaction. I would hope that's not true, but it certainly seems that way when you assess the tone of certain posts and some threads as a whole.
> 
> I personally do certain things with my flock because I do what I believe is the best for them. But I do not look down on others or belittle them for doing things differently than me. And I try to understand why they believe their way is better than my way. And I might put my opinion out there too, and explain myself, but I am not going to imply to other people that my way is the only way it should be done. People have their reasons and beliefs and I have mine. They can voluntarily swallow my opinions and adopt them if they want, but I am not going to shove them down their throats.


Very well said. Kudo's on a great post.


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