# Stunted baby Cockatiel?



## barocio76

I have a ten day old baby cockatiel and she weighs nine grahms. At birth i think she weighed three or four grahms, at 4days was 5grahms, at 6days was6grahms, at 7days was 7 grahms, at 8days was 8grahms and now at 10 days is 9grahms. It seems a really really slow growth. I dont know if she is concidered to be stunted? probably so, and now what can i do for her? does she still have a chance to be ok and make it? Will she just take extra long to grow than normal? This is a picture of her at seven days, Her eyes do open, but not all the way, yet.


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## atvchick95

Comparing your pic to this pic of when mine were that young - she/he looks normal 










I know mine aren't in the upright position like yours but just going by body size


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## barocio76

They do look the same, how about the weight. were yours weighing kinda the same as mine is? Ive been reading that mine is really underweight for its age. So ive been loosing a lot of sleep over it. I worry about my baby.


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## Tieltale

Ive just raised one .. from the same age. It was also very, very small for its age. It had been taken from the parents after they tried to attack it. It took a a long time to put on weight. It is now six weeks old and doing great.... It is the most gorgeous lovable baby.. 
I wish you all the best..


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## srtiels

Is the baby in the nest or have you been handfeeding it from day one? Is it a single chick or are there others in the nest.

Aside from being undersized the skintone is very good, and no obvious signs of malnutrition yet.

More info...


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## atvchick95

barocio76 said:


> They do look the same, how about the weight. were yours weighing kinda the same as mine is? Ive been reading that mine is really underweight for its age. So ive been loosing a lot of sleep over it. I worry about my baby.


I'm sorry i can't remember those babies are already weaned and on their own. 

it was the only pic i found of mine that was close to your age of your bird.

but i know birds in general all weight different, Some are "dainty" some are not. so unless its a significant amount of difference in weight i wouldn't worry too much 

and like Sr. Tiel said over all color looks good so thats a good sign


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## srtiels

Here os a lonk to babies growing from day one.
http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/justcockatiels/Watch%20Me%20Grow/

As ATV noted all babies are different as far as body builds and size.

What you want to see is a steady weight gain. Click on each pix in the link. Use just the skintone, shape of eyes, size and thickness of feet, and wing growth to guage if your baby is developing normally.


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## barocio76

Ive been handfeeding it since day one, and it is the only one. It is not in the nest with the parents, since the parents hurt the first baby that hatched, i dont know if it is because there was something wrong with that baby or what, but i didnt want them to do the same to this one.

Its good to hear you guys think baby looks good with color and all. I hope its nothing serious just a little behind in growth, but in a picture i saw of baby cockatiels, she was smaller than a two day old and she is ten days old. but i guess that doesnt always mean something bad.


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## srtiels

Ok...how thick is the formula? If too thin it can affect growth. How much fed? Too much, and the body is constantly working to digest, and that uses energy and body reserves, thus can affect growth. Since you have a scales approx 10% body weight per feeding, allow to empty after each feeding. If you have handfed before, mix the formula the normal thickness for an older baby. Add a little of plain yogurt to the formula, every other feeding. Skintone and hydration look excellent on the little one. It may be a late bloomer...


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## barocio76

Is there any info on special care for babies really behind in growth, or just keep doing what im doing, it will just take longer than normal for her to grow up?

Im still feeding her every 3 or 3 1/2 hours even all thru the night. and i prepare the formula 1part formula and 2parts water.

and she is eating about 1cc at every feeding

Should i not be feeding her every 3-3 1/2 hours 24hours a day anymore?


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## atvchick95

I'm not sure I haven't fed a cockatiel younger then 3 weeks old 

but here is a nice chart to go by, its helpful  

Age of Chick Feeding Times Feeding
Amounts
1-4 days Every two hours 1 - 2 cc's
5-7 days Every three hours 2 - 3 cc's
8-14 days 7:00 AM, 11:00 AM, 3:00 PM, 7:00 PM, 11:00 PM 4 - 6 cc's
15-24 days 7:00 AM, 12:00 PM (Noon), 5:00 PM, 11:00 PM 7 - 10 cc's
25-34 days 7:00 AM, 5:00 PM, 11:00 PM 11 - 15 cc's
35-44 days (fledging) 7:00 AM, 7:00 PM 11 - 15 cc's 
45 days to weaning 7:00 PM 11 - 15 cc's

from this website http://www.cockatiel.org/articles/handfeeding.html


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## barocio76

so by this chart i should be feeding her every 4 hours and none after 11pm till 7am. but she is not eating 4-6 cc's yet. so should i start feeding her acording to this schedule? but in the amount she is eating now?

She is not even eating 2cc's yet, because of how small she still is. But I do apreciate all of your advice. You dont know how stressed out ive been. I just want my baby to be ok and i want to take care of her right.


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## srtiels

From the size and weight of your baby I would feed approx a 1cc until it gets to 20 grams, then increase to 2cc, and then as it takes off growing increase amount. Note: never go over 10cc once it gets old enough later on. Feed as the crop gets empty. I never stuck with a time schedule when little. I guaged it by digestion. Doing this you should start seeing more of a weight gain. Once it starts growing it will almost look like it is growing right before your eyes.

As to overnight. Feed about 1.5cc, dheck once during the night, feed 1cc, and then resume feeding and emptying between feedings. As it increases in weight then slowly increase the amount fed. Feeding to much soes not put weight on. many times it has the reverse action.


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## atvchick95

I don't follow that schedule myself - i did when i first started 

but for me I found it was easier, to pull the babies at night after the parents feed for the last time. Then come morning They're ready to be fed on my schedule

this also comes in handy when I've already got babies I'm hand feeding that way all babies on on the same schedule, and I don't have any on 2-3 different times of being fed 

Makes my life a lot easier  they still get fed the same amount and same amount of times Just on my own schedule 

but I did use a schedule like the one i posted when i got my 1st love bird(it was from a site on breeding love birds but i'm pretty sure it was exactly the same or close to it) it had me feeding her every 2 hours around the clock at 2 weeks old 

and that was killing me, I was dozing off while feeding or, I was getting up late, so the kids were late for school OR missed a day because I slept in 

found out later I didn't have to feed her every 2 hours Just 4 times a day 

man was I ticked 

but you learn as you go


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## srtiels

Tell me about it. I found those feeding charts years ago. I learned real fast that 15cc was my major cause of slow crop. When I backed it off to a max of 10cc when 3 weeks or older, many crop problems disappeared. I think one site said the crop capacity is 15-20cc. Just becuase a person can stretch the crop that size does not mean that is how much to pump into it.

And you have to now look at the bottom of the page on most sites to see how old the page is. There is also alot of old out-dated info out there.


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## atvchick95

that's true, and what is worse alot of the books you can buy or get from the library are out dated as well


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## barocio76

So before i go to bed feed her 1 1/2cc and check once in the middle of the night and feed 1cc then resume regular feedings in the morning? Wont 1 1/2 cc be too much for her little crop size?


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## barocio76

I still cant believe how behind in growth she is. she weighs less than what a two day old baby should weigh. usually she wont wake up in the middle of the night for feedings, i have to wake her up. and i was doint it every 3 to 3 1/2 hours. but ill do what you had told me to do.


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## barocio76

about outdated information, thats why i was glad to have found this site and i am so grateful to have gotten advice from all of you.


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## srtiels

If 1 1/2cc seems too much then fed the little one a little less.

OK...I saw your other posting that you had new babies that just hatched. Congratulations!

As far as them, as long as you know the parents are feeding the chicks...leave them be...meaning no nestbox changing. But you can take peaks to make sure the babies are being fed. 

Your posting also mentioned there were alot more eggs. Have you candled them to see if they are good or not. If not, do so, and get rid of the ones that when candled do not look fertile. This will cut down the risk of the good eggs getting chilled and losing them. "IF' most of the other eggs are not good, and the parents are feeding the new chicks real good...'Quite Possibly' you may be able to put the little one in and see if they would feed it to. You can wait til one of the babies is the size of your baby.


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## barocio76

I did candle the other eggs before these two babies hatched today and there are babies growing inside. Some have babies that have just started growing in the eggs so they have a whole two or so weeks still to go before they hatch.


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## barocio76

I am just so happy to see them taking care of the babies, i almost started to cry when i saw the mother and father each taking care of the babies.


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## srtiels

Ok...since all the eggs are good you will soon be faced with another delemia. Below is FYI...*just in case...*

By the time the 4th baby hatches you will most likely have to assist handfeed the babies in the nest as more eggs hatch. I use a shot glass, mix up formula. To keep it warm I place it in a pan of warm water, then I go and add a little food to each baby. You do not want them completely filled because if they don't beg or cry the parents won't feed. So if you have to assist feed, just enough to swell or round out the crop, but not up the neck.

Ususally by the fourth or 5th baby the parents will feed more solid foods because that is what they are feeding the older ones. When they feed a new hatchling this it is harder to digest and can lead to dehydration and stunting as the days go by. So be on the look out that even if the littlest babies have food in the crop that it does not look hard packed, or feel real tight and hard. if it is assist feed the little one a dilute formula to get fluids into it and massage the crop to mix the fluid into the crop contents.


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## barocio76

Oh, ok I understand. And when i do start hand feeding after they are two weeks old, i put them back in the nestbox/cage with the parents?


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## srtiels

Ok...when they are older say 2-3 weeks old it is best to just pull them for handfeeding. You can keep them separate from the parents, in their own container. 

If you handle the chicks a couple times daily from the time they are real little they will be more stable friendly babies, not afraid of us 'giants' when you pull them for handfeeding.


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## barocio76

oh ok, i understand. I dont know what i would have done without you. You have been a lot of help to me.


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## srtiels

Your welcome...glad to help. Please keep us posted on how they all are doing


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## barocio76

So this morning i was opening the nestbox to check on the two new babies from yesterday and, there was a 3rd baby! How cool. I weighed them all and the new one was 3g and the two from yesterday was 5g. The new baby from this morning though had a bite mark on the top of its head and a bite mark by one of its nostrils. I dont know if one of the parents hurt it by accident or what. But im going to keep an eye on that one and if i see more injuries then ill have to take that one out and care for it myself.


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## barocio76

Or if it looks like the parents arent feeding it then ill have to take it out and feed it myself. I hope they do care for it though. They are caring for the other two very well it seems though so well see.


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## barocio76

Here is a picture of the two babies from yesterday, with the parents.


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## barocio76

And here is a picture of my first baby, the one i was worried about the stunted growth, now at 12 days old and weighing 10g.


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## srtiels

Ah...the 2 new babies look great.

OK...is it an actual bite mark or scratch? When parents bite the head they do it to crush the skull. When they bite the beak many times it can be as extreme as the tip taken off. If a baby is not begging many times they may nip the beak or the top of the wings, or toes to get a feeding responce. This is to stimulate the baby to cry and open it's mouth so that they can feed it.

If it looks more like a scratch or bruising you could have clumsy parents that are stepping on the babies getting in and out of the box.


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## barocio76

well the head doesnt look like it was trying to get crushed. but part of the scalp is scraped or bit off, missing. Just a little piece. And they could just be being clumbsy, They are first time parents, i dont know if that means anything or not.


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## srtiels

Yes...sometimes first time parents can be a little more exciteable. Are they still feeding the new babies good? If the parents meant to harm the baby it would most likely be fatal and on the first try. From your decription I'm more inclined to think it was an injury. If the parents are excitable, most of the injuries are going to be from their toenails. If you can handle and check one parent at a time when they are normally out of the box...check their toenails. if the tips are very sharp, take a nail clippers and just clip the very tips off so that they are blunt on the tips. The reason why the suggestion is that this will lesson chances of injuries. One other type injury you might expect is an inflated crop from a ruptured air sac. it looks very alarming but mot life threatening. What it looks like is the neck or an area of the body is blown up like a balloon. If you look in my albums, about 2/3 down there are a couple examples. This rarely happens, but just in case info. http://s525.photobucket.com/albums/cc331/Mousebirds-and-more/Other birds/?start=all 

Also my apologies...I did not see your current pix of the baby you are hadfeeding. It is starting to show signs of stunting. You might want to put it in empty with hopes of the parents trying to feed it. If they feed it and the other babies you might consider letting them care for it, and assist feeding if needed. Yours shows the buldging eyes, and the smaller feet. The baby in the illus is dehydrated, and yours looks like hydration is fine.


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## atvchick95

where the parents in the nest box the parents to this baby in question? 

both the parents in the nest box pic looked like lutino 

but i could be wrong only seeing part of their bodies


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## barocio76

Yes, they are both lutino. And they are the parents of the 11 day old (stunted?) baby. I wanted to let you know that the baby that we were talking about with the unknown injury, I had checked it all day and everytime crop was empty and it was looking weak and i decided to take it out for a couple of days to feed so it could get some energy and then put it back with parents and see if they feed it. I know theyre feeding the other two because im seeing their crops full, but i wasnt seeing any care for the one that was born today and that had the injury. What do you think?


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## barocio76

And i wanted to know what you thought of the type of heat source i was using to keep my baby warm was one of those heat lamps. The kind that are used to keep snakes warm, i just bought the smallest lamp and put the 40watt heat bulb in it. And i have two thermometers to moniter the temp. I keep seeing people using heating pads to set up a home made brooder, but i didnt know if the heating pads were safe to be leaving on 24/7.


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## srtiels

ATV...Brought up a question as to the parents. The other babies looked lutino and you said that the parents are lutino. If so, you can not get a dark eyed baby from 2 visual lutinos. Do you have any other pix's of the parents? And what color are the parents eyes?

Yes...I would avoid a heating pad too. it sounds like your setup is fine. You will also need to have some form of humidity in there. You can fill up a salt shaker with water and place it on or near the warmest area of the container. Also many heating pads automatically cut off after 2 hours, which is not good. 

A drop of honey to the formula will give the baby some energy. Also a light sprinkle of Brewers Yeast is good for energy, stress, and will help if there was much blood loss.


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## barocio76

this is a picture of my daughters birds she used to have. Could they be the parents of my 12 day old (stunted?) baby? the white faced is the female and the one on the right is the male.

What happened was my female was laying all kinds of eggs and never sitting on them, even after a month would pass, and my daughters birds were sitting on their eggs, but none of her birds eggs were ever hatching. So i gave her bird some of my birds eggs to sit on too. The first bird that hatched was born with yolk attached outside and her birds bit at it a couple of times, it died by morning. then when the second one hatched i took care of it from day one because i didnt want birds to hurt it. So my oldest baby, the 12 day old, may be from other parents?


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## barocio76

Here is a picture of my set of cockatiels. The one on the top of the cage is my male, and the one sitting on the edge of the nestbox is the female and they both do have red eyes. So i didnt know that they cant have a baby with dark eyes. unless you see something that shows theyre not full lutino.


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## atvchick95

its very likely the stunted baby is from your daughters pair - It'll be easier to tell when it starts to feather out 

I didn't even realize the stunted one had dark eyes - wasn't paying attention to that part 

my question about both parents being lutino is, its not wise to breed lutino to lutino and I was thinking perhaps the stunted baby is stunted because both parents are visual lutino 

all over the net the only thing i ever find it tells you is " breeding lutino to lutino causes bald patches on the back of the head" what they don't bother to tell you is it causes other issues too 

as susanne has said many times Pairing 2 like mutations causes smaller birds and other issues 

BUT since the baby has dark eyes its parents are the lutino so thats not the cause 

but it could possibly be because both of your daughters birds are pied

but i'll Let Susanne weigh in on that, I'm not a expert by any means, just from reading, researching. and such just throwing some thoughts out to what may have caused it.


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## atvchick95

barocio76 said:


> Here is a picture of my set of cockatiels. The one on the top of the cage is my male, and the one sitting on the edge of the nestbox is the female and they both do have red eyes. So i didnt know that they cant have a baby with dark eyes. unless you see something that shows theyre not full lutino.


Your female almost looks Lutino Pearl but my eyes aren't working to well i've been working hard the last 3 days decluttering my house , and right now my eyes are on fire because i'm tired but my body hurts to bad to go to sleep 

even if they're split to pied or say white face, You'd still get "lutino's" 

example: both are split to pied 

You'd get Lutino Pied and Lutino Split to pied and just Lutino - all would have red eyes 

another example: both split to white face 
you'd get White face Lutino(AKA Albino), Lutino and Lutino split to white face - again all would have red eyes


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## srtiels

Yes...your daughters pair may possibly be the parents.

If the yolk was outside the body then the eggs was opened too soon. Once pipped there would be a hole, and either the pair opened the egg, or in being clumsy broke it as piping. it would not have hatched on its own with the yolk out.

There is one other possibility of how a lutino pair can have a dark eyed baby. Look at the eyes in the pix. On normal light which eyes does each of your birds have?


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## barocio76

my male's body is mostly all white and my female's body is white and yellow mixed. if that tells you anything.


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## barocio76

tomorrow in regular daylight ill check out the eye colors.
So i may have to get another pair of cockatiels? If its not ok to mix lutino with lutino? I wish i would have known that. The reason i did that was because i wanted to only have lutino babies.


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## atvchick95

barocio76 said:


> tomorrow in regular daylight ill check out the eye colors.
> So i may have to get another pair of cockatiels? If its not ok to mix lutino with lutino? I wish i would have known that. The reason i did that was because i wanted to only have lutino babies.


if you can get a male who is for sure split to lutino to put with your lutino female , that would be great 

but females can't be split to lutino (its a sex linked gene either they show it visually or they don't have it) so for your male you'd have to find a different mutation you like to pair him with 

But if you find a male split to lutino for your female you'll get lutinos 

example : Normal Grey Split to lutino Male With a Lutino Female 


Mother:Lutino
Father:Grey Split To {X2: Lutino}

male offspring:
50% Grey Split To {X2: Lutino}
50% Lutino

female offspring:
50% Grey
50% Lutino


so you'd still be getting lutino's in both males and females Just not 100% lutinos


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## barocio76

so are you saying that i need to split up the two lutino's that i have? and get them different mates?


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## barocio76

the mutation thing your explaining to me is kinda confusing, but interesting at the same time, and im learning a lot from you and srtiels.


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## atvchick95

barocio76 said:


> so are you saying that i need to split up the two lutino's that i have? and get them different mates?



I personally would yes, and if you read on some of the posts on mutations Srtiels has posted she mentions its not wise to breed any 2 bird that are the same mutations like not to breed lutino to lutino, a grey to a grey, etc. 



barocio76 said:


> the mutation thing your explaining to me is kinda confusing, but interesting at the same time, and im learning a lot from you and srtiels.



What part is confusing? i'll explain it best i can  Once you get the hang of the terms, and the basic mutations it's pretty easy to learn - at least it was for me and I'm not a quick leaner when it comes to scientific stuff lol 

i'm glad we are helping you - thats what we're here for


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## srtiels

It will be interesting to see eye color of the rest of eggs that hatch. If you get any dark eyed chicks then your hen is not a lutino. There is another mutation that if paired incorrectly will produce lutino appearing birds. And are sold as lutinos. When a breeder works with them the chances of getting lutinos are slim, unless one parent such as the father is lutino or split. But grey babies in the nest are the clue.

In looking at the pair it appears the male is a lutino pied. You will not see the pied like a normal pied, but in looking at his wing flight feathers my guess is a very lightly pied lutino. The pied would most likely have also contributed to his nice crest and he looks like he is probably fully feathered behind the crest.

The hen has me puzzeled which is why I asked for eye color. It could be camera flash or actual eye color. If actual eye color she may also be a lutino pied, but I really can't see much evidence of that, or she may be is genetically a cinnamon fallow. This occurs when cinnamon is mixed with fallow. The cinnamon masks the fallow color, thus both colors are not visible. She has the fallow colored eyes, if not camera flash. If so, and they hatch out any dark eyed babies then thats an indicator of mutation. And any visual lutino babies would be females.

Lets see what the rest of the hatches are and how well the babies do.


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## barocio76

Ok, here are some other pictures of my female. see if you can see anything in these.


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## barocio76

Here are some pictures of my male cockatiel too.


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## atvchick95

to me the female looks lutino but the male doesn't he looks to have a sliver appearance on his wings instead of off white to a bright yellow of a normal lutino


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## barocio76

So does that mean that i should still split them up? Or replace one? Or can i still keep them together?


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## atvchick95

I'll let srtiels weight in on that 

because it could just be my monitor making him look silvery 

I have a very old one that doesn't always work right - i'm often hitting the side to make my screen go wide again because it'll curve in on the sides and makes it very hard to read lol


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## srtiels

OK...I looking at the hen she appears to be a cinnamom lutino. Check her tail feathers and see if they look like the pix. But, if you do get any dark eyed babies then she may be a cinnamon pearl fallow.

As to the male, have you had him from the time he was a baby? If so, was he more yellow? If so, what he is is a lutino pearl pied. If not, he is a lutino pied split to pearl. If you notice that slight was to his back, that is a very strong indication that he was pearled or split to pearl. When a lutino male loses his pearl, within a year he will get a tannish to lavender wash to his back. And split to pearl can also cause a bleed thru of color. Many people less expereinced mistake this for the bird carrying cinnamon and the discoloration to the back is from cinnamon, it's not. How I can tell he is also pied, is the wing flights have a soft buttery yellow color.

Fortunitely you have enough mutations going on that pairing the 2 should not be a problem. If they were straight lutino I would suggest otherwise.

Now...if you get all lutino pearl babies, you can visually sex some once they feather. Any that are apparent lutino pearls will be females.

You'll have to keep us updated as the babies progress.


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## barocio76

Yes, i think my female's tail feathers look like the one of the picture you posted. Here is a picture. I hope i took a good enough pic for you to see.

And its good to hear that i dont have to get separate the parents, I actually had just gotten this female for my male at the beginning of the year. Turned out the mate my father had given to me for him was another male, so i had to give that one back and got this female for him.

Yes, i will keep updated info and pics of babies. thanks


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## atvchick95

I like the 1st pic you can see a baby wing peeking out 

out of curiosity what type of bedding are you using? i've never seen any like that before


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## srtiels

OK...she is marked like a cinnamon lutino. In the fourth pix, in the upper right corner you can also see some tannish feathers to her wing, probably the covet /small overlay feathers. If you get any dark eyed babies at all then she is a fallow.

Nice looking birds  Fortunitely with the splits and other mutation mixed in with your lutinos you a less prone to have problems assosciated with like to like pairings. If they were just lutino, like ATV I would be strongly encouraging you to consider repairing them.

Since the male has pied and it looks like he has nice head feathering, it should be passed along to the babies and improve the head feathering and less chance of balding. The hen appears to have some balding, but not a huge amount. Later on I have pix's to show of lutinos babies heads to show what to look for as they pin feather to get an idea if they will have good head feathering or not.


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## barocio76

the bedding im using is called ECO Nest and Forage I think i bought it online at petco.


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## atvchick95

ok Thanks


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## srtiels

Hmmm...In looking at it I'm suspecting it may 'possibly' be the cause of injuries to the chicks. For example if a parent gets it wrapped around a leg, in trying to kick it off they could injure a baby or egg. The edges can be like paper cuts.


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## barocio76

True, I didnt think of that. Ill have to find something else to use. Any suggestions? something easy and not too expensive.


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## srtiels

Pine shavings should be alright. Add a little at a time, until the cardboard strips are covered. About 1/3 of the way down in my albums is some pix's of bedding. Click on the pix for a lager veiw, and each illus. has onfo...
http://s525.photobucket.com/albums/cc331/Mousebirds-and-more/Other%20birds/?start=all

Not shown is shredded aspen which is also good.


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## barocio76

One of my daughter's friends asked if they could get one of my baby cockatiels, I told them ill probably want to keep them all, but ill let them have one. So i wanted to know how old do they have to be before you can give a cockatiel to someone? My daughter told them after theyre a month, but i think they have to be older than that. Wont i still be handfeeding them at a month old? How old can i let them start trying to eat seed, and can i let them start trying to eat the same seed the parents are eating, when it is time to let them eat a little bit of seed?


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## atvchick95

most tiels' don't wean until they are 12 weeks old. (3months) 

Some do sooner, some later 

my rule of thumb for my birds(i use it for all the species I breed, and it doesn't matter if they're hand fed or parent raised) 

when they can go a full 2 weeks with out crying to be fed, then they're weaned. if they cry even ONE time in that 2 weeks, the 2 week count down starts all over 

I have a mix i start all my hand fed birds on, its finch/canary sized Fruit blend and natural pellets with finch /canary size seed mixed in after they eat that well for several days, i change the mix to Budgie (parakeet) size, once they have that down pat Then I give them Tiel size 

I introduce that mix, along with millet dust (the stuff at the bottom of the bag ) , veggies, greens, cooked noodles , at 4 weeks old 

i use the same guide line for both my tiels and love birds i hand feed (its all i've hand fed so far but hopefully soon I'll be adding green cheek conures to it my pair is on 2 eggs )


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## barocio76

Ok, good to know. so at four weeks, i can start them on the first mix you had mentioned? Wow, sounds like a cool type of birdie. let me know how that goes. Id like to see how they look, and as babies too.


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## atvchick95

yep, but you don't have to use finch/canary sized food. it just happened We went to the bird fair to buy our food (we buy in bulk and thats the only place we can get 20 pound bags of pellets) and they were out of budgie(parakeet size) and we were out of food so we had to get the finch/canary size,and so i'm just using it because i don't want it sitting in there going to waste 

here are my conures


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## barocio76

Wow, ive never even seen these kind of birds before. They are so beautiful and colorful.


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## barocio76

I went to check on the two babies with the parents and they were feeding the babies, but their crops were completely full, i pulled them out for a while, just till their crops emptied a bit. I didnt want their parents over feeding/stretching their crops. Is that ok. And what the parents are feeding the babies is like it has big chunks inside, will the babies be able to digest that?


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## atvchick95

barocio76 said:


> Wow, ive never even seen these kind of birds before. They are so beautiful and colorful.



thank you  



barocio76 said:


> I went to check on the two babies with the parents and they were feeding the babies, but their crops were completely full, i pulled them out for a while, just till their crops emptied a bit. I didnt want their parents over feeding/stretching their crops. Is that ok. And what the parents are feeding the babies is like it has big chunks inside, will the babies be able to digest that?


if you feed your birds seeds, that is the big chunks your seeing and it is perfectly normal  this is how you tell if they're feeding them actual food or just water - if you saw nothing at all but their crops are full then I believe that's a sign of pure water 

Unless of course they're being hand fed then you don't see any chunks of seeds 

normally its not the parents who over feed them (it normally happens when being hand fed) BUT there are the rare occasions that the parents do it, I think most of the time its on 1st time parents 

but all mine have done good for 1st time parents, there were times I thought they over fed them when I first started breeding, but then researching and seeing pics I realized their crop size was normal


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## Tony's Tiels

It is Extremly normal for the chicks crop to expand, it may look too large if you have never seen them before, but it sounds like the parents are actually doing Very Well at feeding. & if you take the chick(s) out for crop emptying, that actually lowers the body temp & makes food digestion even more demanding.
It sounds like everyone is giving you very good advice & it is time to stop fretting so much, 
nature will take it's course & the chicks will be fine.
Let the parents do their job, they may make a mistake or 2, 
But if you keep pulling a chick out for every single worry, the parents will never learn how to parent.


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## barocio76

ok, thankyou. My cockatiels are first time parents, and this is a first time for me, having birds that had babies. So I do see that they are doing well so far. The babies that are being fed by the parents already almost weigh as much as my older baby. my two week old weighs 14 grahms, and the 5 day olds, weigh 8 and 10 grahms. I am just glad they are all doing well. And Ill try my best not to worry about every little thing, i actually have not been as stressful since ive been talking and getting advice on this website. I am so gald Ive had the help.


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## Tony's Tiels

Oh & you will learn not to worry so much too ! 
I too am easy at worry....so I do understand your concerns. It is very helpful when soo many folks help out on this forum.
Have you, or are you going to put the 2 week old back in with the parents now ?
It seems like it would be a good time to do so, since all chicks are the same size.
(I do not recall if someone said to do this or not above)


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## barocio76

The two week old did start spending some time with the parents as of a few days ago. Actually the two week old spent most of today with its parents, at night it is not with the parents, and last night the 2 one week olds were sleeping in the brooder with the two week old from midnight till 5am then the 2 one week olds went back in with the parents and i havent took the 2 smaller ones out, i was thinking of doing the same thing i did last night. what do you think?


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## Tony's Tiels

Do you plan on letting these birds have more chicks to raise in the future & homes ready ?
I ask, because if you do want the parents to learn how to raise a successful clutch, it is good to let them have at least one chick to raise fully until weaned.
If this is a one time occurance, it may not be as important, but still...the parents may 'need' to fully wean a chick ....
otherwise they may start laying even More eggs right away. (not good for the hen)

As SR says, parent raised chicks grow faster & are in general more healthy, &
my personal preference is to let the parents raise them until at least 3 weeks old.
(while handling the chicks daily to keep them human friendly)
So, I am biased to say put all of the chicks in with the parents & leave them there.

I also agree that the parents got either too hasty to get a feeding response in which has caused the 
chick(s) injuries, 
OR, they need the nails trimmed, Have you had a chance to trim the nails ?

I will have to read all of this thread again to be sure, but my best guess is it would be best to let the parents have all of the chicks as soon as possible, especially the 2 week old one.
I do not think they intentionally harmed any of the chicks. And, you will gain some much needed sleep too 

Oh.. And Congrats on your new chicks !


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## Tony's Tiels

Then again...if the new chicks are only a couple days old.....
that does change my answer......
How comfortable / experienced are you with the hand feeding ?
It might be best to keep up with 'supplement feedings' or co-parenting.

since the diet is different for 2 weeks verus 2 days....
my concern is the 2 week old being so relatively small...that he/she may need more parent food than human intervention.


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## barocio76

yes, I do plan on letting my cockatiel's have more babies, later. They actually still have two eggs that almost ready to hatch. So I can let them raise a couple of the babies till it is fully weaned. 

So you suggest not fully taking over till three weeks? Ive been reading and hearing to do it at two weeks. So i can put all three babies with parents and leave the two week old with the parents for another week, and the one week olds leave them with parents for another two weeks? But I am really ok and have been doing good with the hand feeding but i will do what you had suggested and give them a little more time with parents, till 3 weeks, right?

I went to the pet store to see what better kinda food to get for my cockatiel parents than the regular seed mix i have been feeding them, they told me i didnt need to get anything else special, what im feeding them the regular seed mix is ok. I just feel like i should be giving them something more.

And I did get to check their nails and trim.


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## barocio76

Does anybody know where i can see some pictures of some baby cockatiels crops that were fed by parents and look like the crop was over stretched, but really is normal.?


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## Tony's Tiels

good that they will not accidently harm the eggs/chicks with their nails....

My experience has been 3 weeks old (for cockatiels) is the perfect time to take out for hand feeding, as long as the chicks have been handled for about 10 minutes a day up to that point.
(we actually wait till 7 days old for handling, versus some other folks start earlier)
They get the best of both worlds that way, parent birds instinctively know how much of what to feed when, 
& then at 3 weeks they are pretty strong from parent raising to tame even further with hand feeding,,,,even tho we have raised chicks with out hand feeding at all,
that are just as tame, if not more so.

So, from Our experience YES, we would leave the chicks until 3 weeks old, and handle them daily after 7 days old (with clean/steralized hands) but every situation does have nuances to consider.
You know Your birds better than anyone ! 
So trust that & your own comfort level as well. Especially since their are SO Many conflicting 'opinions' on what is best.

And as for supplementing the parents food, we feed parent birds a 'soft meal' twice a day
like 'bird bread' , scramdled eggs, veggies, etc. 
We find this especially helpful when the chicks are under one week old.
But it is somewhat contradictory to what a wild cockatiel would eat & feed chicks...

Also I am much more experienced with large parrots versus 'tiels, so I personally do not like to feed a 2 week old 'tiel. I know how easy things can go wrong with a large parrot, & hand feeding such a little bird is a bit scary to me.

So, after giving *Your situation *more thought, 
I would co-parent the current chicks (provided You are getting enough sleep & you do sound confident in hand feeding technique) I would leave all chicks in with the parents all night & take them out for the day time for a few hours.
You do not want the parents to start feeding new born chicks the same type of food that a 3 week old would eat....*And I do not know how to prevent that* in your situation.

Hopefully someone else can jump in here on how to proceed...
I do Know you are learning a lot right now, it is challenging  hopefully you will be able to stop the 'double clutch' next time around & things will be much more easy.

I look forward to knowing your chicks are all big happy birds


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## Tony's Tiels

our website has some chicks with full crops..parent fed
http://tiels.gotpetsonline.com/epicture/33526/1502037

the pic of a non-feathered crop is actually not a full crop, the feathered bird behind that one has a more full & normal crop size for a chick.


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## Miss Parakeet

aw look at it
my bros tiel just layed an egg


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## srtiels

My apoligies for the late posting.

From the weight and age of the chicks they sound like they may be undersized.

As to the large crop, as others have said this can be normal with good feeding parents. it is the quality of the crop contents that need to be looked at. By this I mean you would have to feel each crop between the index finger and thumb. Apply some pressure between the fingers. 

If the crop has a very hard tight packed feel and when you remove your fingers there is indentations from your fingertips for 5 sec. or more then the parents are not feeding th babies enough fluids. You may have to assist feed when crops are hard packed with a dilute formula, just enough to add some fluids to the crop contents, and massage between the fingers. A dehydrated crop contributes to slow growth and can lead to slow development and stunting.

If the crop feels like a loosely packed beanbag and there is no indentations left when you remove your fingertips then the crop contents consistancy is normal.

If the crop looks like a balloon and you see separation in the crop, this is not good. The solids will be at the bottom of the crop and the fluids will be floating above. This state is called sour crop in the nest. If not resolved, it can lead to total crop and digestive stasis.


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## Tony's Tiels

isn't sour crop more likely from hand-feeding ? (from beginners)
I am glad to see you had time to reply about these chicks again


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## srtiels

No, if you ever get sour crop in the nest it is a breeders nightmare to try and turn around. Heat can contribute to it, and soft foods.

The crop will look huge, bloated, and each day the chick will get thinner looking. The crop looks soft and gassy looking and feels like a loosely filled water balloon.


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## barocio76

I have been checking the crops from the parents feeding and I did let the parents feed my older one more the past couple of days and the baby looked like it was starting to get dry skin, and crop was looking dry, so i did make it a more of diluted formula and massaged it. So ive been keeping an eye on that. So how much should the one week olds be weighing about now? they are 10 and 12 g right now.

Ive been noticing the two week old, having a steady weight gain, and i noticed black things on the wings like feathers are going to start comming out, eyes are practically completely open. Ill post a pic in a while.


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## atvchick95

I'm not sure on the weight, i'll have to look it up 

but the little black things on the wings are called Pin Feathers and it does mean feathers will be coming in soon.

Edit go to this page and scroll part way down there is a little chart - I wasn't allowed to copy it kept telling me its not a public domain

http://www.cockatielcottage.net/weightgain.html


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## srtiels

_*So how much should the one week olds be weighing about now? they are 10 and 12 g right now.*_
--------------------------------

A conservative way to know the weigh gain of the baby is to know the hatch weight. For example: if the baby hatched out at 5 grams, this gives you a base figure. For each day of growth multiply that day by the hatch weight. For example 2 days old= 10 gr., 3 days old= 15 gr. 10 days old 50 grams. At arounf 10 days from hatch growth is going to slow down a little. So for the next week or so use 3.5-4 gr. as the base weight. At 18-21 days they will putting on less weight, and by 4 weeks starting to stay at the same weight or dropping a few grams. At this age they are thinning down to fledge.

These are approx. Each baby may very just a little. The most rapid growth is the first 10 days.

_*and i noticed black things on the wings like feathers are going to*_ *start coming* _*out,*_ 

Were these the red/pink eyed babies??? Since their eyes are opening what color do you see?


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## barocio76

Here is the black eyed baby and there are the black things on the wings showing that finally its feathers are going to come, i hope. and then we will be able to tell which are its parents, right. if it is my two yellow ones or my daughters pair. let me know if you cant see anything in these pictures.

The two other babies eyes havent started opening yet, but they look a light red thru the skin. ill post pic when their eyes start opening.


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## srtiels

Your little one is going to be a very light pied. When you look at the wing area there is a break in the color of the grey where the wing flights will come in. These feathers will be yellow. And the crest is yellow. We'll know more are the pin feathers grow.

The baby looks like it has gown and the toes have gained length....that is good. 

One suggestion...look at the crop, it looks like very little fluids. You might want to mix a thin formula, and feed it a little to make the crop more mushy inside. This will help with hydration and gowth. You might want to assist feed a couple times a day.


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## barocio76

I noticed that about the crop too, and when it and the babies poop it is mostly little seeds that come out, Is that normal? Isnt the seed supposed to digest into their regular green looking poop. But the parents are feeding them good, its just kinda dry, i guess.


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## atvchick95

it isn't good when birds are pooping out their food 

I can't answer the light pied question - the whole light pied VS. heavy pied still confuses me to me a pied bird is just that Pied


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## Tony's Tiels

Glad to see a pic..of this 2 week old. it helps a Lot with helping answer questions.
I agree the crop does not have enough fluid & especially since it is not 'digesting' the seeds, I would defenitely hand feed some fluids, a more liquid than normal hand-feeding formula for a day & then see how the chick is, I would do this along with letting the parents feed,

I do wonder tho...since the 2 week old is getting such a 'dry' feed from the parents, how will the little 2-3 day olds do ?
What is the parents diet ? do they have any soft foods ?


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## srtiels

*ATV*...OK...with the word *pied*, think of the word yellow, or with Whiteface, white. So when someone says _light pied_, that means a small amount of pied (yellow) feathers over the body, flights and tail. With a light pied, there is going to be more of the dark feathers seen. And _heavy_ _pied_ means lots of pied (yellow) feathers to the body, flights and tail. So a heavy pied would have fewer dark feathers than light colored feathers seen. 

Normal parent fed baby poop is going to vary from a soft off white and clay or pasty looking glob when _*under*_ 10 days old,...to a soft, but defined (meaning solids and white) poop that is usually a paler green color than the parents, when chicks are older.

As to the seed in the droppings...is it just the older chick or all the babies? And are the younger babies crops the same as the older baby?

Some things you are going to need to help overcome this is, some plain yogurt, and Papaya...either fresh...and mashed fine, *or *Papaya tablets, crushed into a fine powder. Mix a small amount of diluted formula. Add plain yogurt at a 50-50% ratio to the formula, and mix in about 1/5th ratio, or a pinch of the Papaya...and stir well. Give each baby some of this when they do not look full in the nest (try and get to the babies just before the parents feed them, like the AM) Do this several times a day. After fed massage this into the existing food in the crop to help soften the crop. The yogurt will help with the intesinal flora, and the Papaya acts as a digestive enzyme which will help the the digestive track break down the foods and aid in nutrient absorption. The combination of the 2 with assist (supplimental) feedings several times a day will help to clear up the whole seeds in the droppings. It can rake as little time as a 1/2 day to 1-2 days to see a change in the droppings.


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## srtiels

A DUH moment. Shown is a pix of Prozyme. It's an old pix so the label may look a little different. Many larger Pet Stores may have it. It can be used instead of the Papaya, and in some cases may be alot better. When adding to formula mix the formula normal to just a little thick consistency. When you add the Prozyme and mix it in it will thin back down the formula. This is normal, so don't thicken back up.


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## barocio76

I do wonder tho...since the 2 week old is getting such a 'dry' feed from the parents, how will the little 2-3 day olds do ?
What is the parents diet ? do they have any soft foods ?[/QUOTE]


Ive tried to give the parent cockatiels boiled eggs, they dont eat that, they eat wheat bread, beans, mixed froz vegetables(thawed), but id like to know what other kind of soft foods i can give them. and in what kind of a daily schedule. Like how many times a day, at what times of the day to give them what kind of soft meals?


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## atvchick95

srtiels said:


> *ATV*...OK...with the word *pied*, think of the word yellow, or with Whiteface, white. So when someone says _light pied_, that means a small amount of pied (yellow) feathers over the body, flights and tail. With a light pied, there is going to be more of the dark feathers seen. And _heavy_ _pied_ means lots of pied (yellow) feathers to the body, flights and tail. So a heavy pied would have fewer dark feathers than light colored feathers seen.
> 
> Normal parent fed baby poop is going to vary from a soft off white and clay or pasty looking glob when _*under*_ 10 days old,...to a soft, but defined (meaning solids and white) poop that is usually a paler green color than the parents, when chicks are older.
> 
> As to the seed in the droppings...is it just the older chick or all the babies? And are the younger babies crops the same as the older baby?
> 
> Some things you are going to need to help overcome this is, some plain yogurt, and Papaya...either fresh...and mashed fine, *or *Papaya tablets, crushed into a fine powder. Mix a small amount of diluted formula. Add plain yogurt at a 50-50% ratio to the formula, and mix in about 1/5th ratio, or a pinch of the Papaya...and stir well. Give each baby some of this when they do not look full in the nest (try and get to the babies just before the parents feed them, like the AM) Do this several times a day. After fed massage this into the existing food in the crop to help soften the crop. The yogurt will help with the intesinal flora, and the Papaya acts as a digestive enzyme which will help the the digestive track break down the foods and aid in nutrient absorption. The combination of the 2 with assist (supplimental) feedings several times a day will help to clear up the whole seeds in the droppings. It can rake as little time as a 1/2 day to 1-2 days to see a change in the droppings.



see why can't websites put it just as simple as that why must they get all into the scientific crapola LOL - so Nibbles is considered a Heavy pied  Now i understand 




barocio76 said:


> I do wonder tho...since the 2 week old is getting such a 'dry' feed from the parents, how will the little 2-3 day olds do ?
> What is the parents diet ? do they have any soft foods ?



Ive tried to give the parent cockatiels boiled eggs, they dont eat that, they eat wheat bread, beans, mixed froz vegetables(thawed), but id like to know what other kind of soft foods i can give them. and in what kind of a daily schedule. Like how many times a day, at what times of the day to give them what kind of soft meals?[/QUOTE]

Try mixing the boiled eggs in with their other foods, mine don't like it plain LOVE it with cooked noodles though 

we buy "rainbow" twisted noodles for the birds I know thats not the actual name of them but i can't recall at this minute - we buy the whole grain kind We break most of them up because they are fairly big once cooked(its easier to break them before cooking ) and then we'll boil a couple eggs and i'll mix it all together 

this isn't the greatest pic (at the time i had a crappy camera) but it works 

oh and if i remember right in this pic it was just normal whole grain noodles not the multi colored ones that we use now 



















the mess in the bottom of the cage is thanks to the budgies - they loved sitting in the tiels food dish kicking out pellets while eating - i fixed that problem with Deeper dishes(made for dog crates) they could still sit in the dish and eat but couldn't get any more food kicked out lol


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## barocio76

Thats what my parakeets would do, kick out all their food onto the floor and just waste it, id get so upset.

but thanks, ill try the eggs and noodles.


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## atvchick95

no problem we also use non boiled and hard boiled eggs in our birdy bread as well so they eat their eggs just not plain


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## srtiels

_*see why can't websites put it just as simple as that why must they get all into the scientific crapola LOL - so Nibbles is considered a Heavy pied  Now i understand*_ 
------------------------------------------------------------

LOL...thanks! I also hate the techno-babble. And even what info there is they can't even agree on that. Just think Yellow (pied) and how much is covering the body.


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## atvchick95

tell me about it earlier today I went on a search for a non scientfic explantion of the different yellow faces in Budgies So i can understand how Golden Face works - I know yellow face type 1 and 2 but Golden face i'm lost 

Well i found one, was reading through it - still didn't understand it, Then when i got to the bottom she was talking about spangles and how to get all the babies born to be visual 

and She was so wrong it wasn't funny and not a single "contact me" button Or at least not that i could find 

i wanted to let her know she was wrong on it and I have the proof More than once 

but I couldn't find a way to contact her


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## srtiels

That must have been frustrating. Sometimes you can look to see if there is a link to contact the webmaster. And I think there is a site called: http://domains.whois.com/domain.php?action=whois And you can paste in their website address and it will tell you who owns it and contact email.


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## atvchick95

srtiels said:


> That must have been frustrating. Sometimes you can look to see if there is a link to contact the webmaster. And I think there is a site called: http://domains.whois.com/domain.php?action=whois And you can paste in their website address and it will tell you who owns it and contact email.


Thanks I'll see if that gives me any info


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## barocio76

So ive fed the parent cockatiels mixed froz veg, they love those. Bananas and apples, they dont touch those. Black beans, they ate a little of those. I havent gotten any whole wheat pasta yet to give that to them with the eggs. Can i give them scrambled eggs too? And this morning when i gave them a platter with mixed veg, bananas, apple. I gave it to them in the morning and left it in there till this evening. Am i supposed to leave it in there that long?


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## Tony's Tiels

harmful bacteria can grow rapidly on any fresh foods....And yes, our birds will eat hard boiled eggs if it is mashed up together, so we just started scrambling eggs for them adding the egg shell & any other veggies, etc that they will eat.
it sounds like it would be good to make one egg in the AM & one in late afternoon for your parent birds. (more if they eat all of it as time goes on)

And maybe just the veggies at lunch, if you are around.
Also, there is a thread with Many 'bird bread' recipes on this forum, maybe a search will find them.

We have not had any problems with this food & schedule, but I think someone else here has...SR ? may have further advice.
OH...& of course their normal seed diet should be available at all times .


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## srtiels

Nope...no advice as to soft foods...I avoid them like the plague when they have babies.


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## atvchick95

srtiels said:


> Nope...no advice as to soft foods...I avoid them like the plague when they have babies.


why? Most people say thats when your supposed to feed them soft foods 



Mine get it any time of the year - not just at one certain time though - not sure if it makes a difference 


barocio76 - cooked foods, fresh foods, and fruits shouldn't be left more then one hour some say 2-4 hours 

but i stick with one hour all year long if its really really hot out (even with air conditioning in my house) I'll wait til it cools off in the evening to feed them their fresh foods


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## srtiels

The closest I will get to soft foods is my flowers, some greens and all birds get their daily small piece od honey wheat bread. When stopped doing soft foods 100% yeast problems with babies and parents between clutches ended. Soft foods were a problem with sloppy feeders, that resulted in malnutritioned babies, slow/sour crop in the nest, bacterial problems with parents and babies. I just keep it simple and basic.


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## barocio76

srtiels said:


> The closest I will get to soft foods is my flowers, some greens and all birds get their daily small piece od honey wheat bread. When stopped doing soft foods 100% yeast problems with babies and parents between clutches ended. Soft foods were a problem with sloppy feeders, that resulted in malnutritioned babies, slow/sour crop in the nest, bacterial problems with parents and babies. I just keep it simple and basic.


So that sounds like a pretty good reason and also keeping it simple. 
Would you mind giving me a small list of what you do feed while parents are feeding, or is this something thats given all year. Like what kind of greens, and i can give any kind of honey wheat bread, or do i put honey on wheat bread for them? thankyou

I noticed the parents cage smelled a little like one of the parent cockatiels had thrown up,Or maybe it was smelly poop, i dont know what that means, if they ate too much, or didnt like the soft foods i was trying with them.


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## barocio76

Ive seen some ones write about feeding their cockatiels pellets, and ive tried to find it at the pet stores, what kind of pellets are they talking about? Does anyone know?


----------



## Bea

Special parrot pellets have been formulated over the years to offer a more "complete" diet than a seed based diet. I'm not sure what part of the world you're in, but here in Australia Vetafarm and Kaytee are available at pet shops and they're quite poor quality brands, but you can get Harrisons (organic, high quality) from some vets, and Roudybush online (another good brand).


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## srtiels

_*Would you mind giving me a small list of what you do feed while parents are feeding, or is this something thats given all year.*_


it is the same thing whether they have babies or not*. *I start the morning by giving all the cages and flights a piece of honey wheat bread...approx 1/5 of a slice. Then I will give greens, such as this week it has been escarole...but it can be red leaf lettuce, endive, kale. And also some millet. I check to see if the water needs changing, and change if needed. Then go feed all the handfed babies...then back to the caged and flights with a change of seed, and I have a bowl of Zupreem pellets for free choice in the cage. That is it...just when they have babies I will check and give more seed, millet, and the afternoon a little bit more of bread.

_*I noticed the parents cage smelled a little like one of the parent cockatiels had thrown up*_

If the inside of the nestbox smells like this also, then this could be a problem. This is another reason why I do not change anything in the nestbox till I pull the babies. When you change the nestbox you are removing your visual guage of how the baby is digesting. This could be by consistancy of the droppings or odor.

If the smell from the parents cage is a vinegary-ish type smell it could be a sign that they are slightly stressed from just being parents and have a yeast problem. Brewers yeast sprinkled on anything they will eat will help alleviate the stress and give them added nutrients. And sprinkling some probiotics, such as acidolpholus on what they will eat will help balance intestinal flora.


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## barocio76

So i wanted to add some updated pictures of my baby cockatiels. The one i was worried about it being stunted (baby#1)is three 1/2 weeks old now. and the other two babies are two weeks old now.I feed them in the morning and let the parents feed them in the afternoon, and then i feed them one more time in the evening and one more time at bedtime. they seem to be getting close to me and when they hear me come into the bedroom they start screaching for me. or whatever it is that noise is that babies make.

In a week my family is going to go camping, is their any way id be able to do anything to take the birds with me and be able to take care of them and keep them comfortable? Or im probably just not going to get to go with them this time. just wondering. And leaving them with the parents is out of the question because when they feed the birds their crop is usually filled with seed and not enough fluid and thats why i have to help feed too.


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## srtiels

Wiw!...your little guy is nicely hydrated and starting to fill out nicely. I can't wait to see the lutinos feather. By the eye color they look like they will be lutino pieds...which are an overall soft butter yellow colored bird.

How far do you have to travel to your camping trip? And whats the space in the vehicle, and is there electric and water hook-ups at the camping area? If the parents are used to you into the cage and the nestbox you can kind of prep them by moving the cage several times a day to get them used to change/movement if conditions are OK to bring them along. I've taken babies along with me on 1-2 day trips for handfeeding with no problems.


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## barocio76

I wasnt thinking about bringing parents along, just the three babies. There will be no electrical source at camp site, we have a van. they will be there for three days. someone had suggested getting a small ice chest and putting one of those snapping heat sources inside and leaving the ice chest lid open a little for breathing and having that in the van. I need to know how i can keep them warm with out having an electrical outlet to plug my usual heat source into.


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## xxxSpikexxx

I am not sure I would take them camping. Can someone go to your house and care for them well you are gone.


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## barocio76

I dont know anyone who knows how to feed baby birds. but if i have to ill just not go with the family camping. I was just wondering if there was any way to keep them warm and comfortable if i did bring them along.


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## xxxSpikexxx

I can't think of a safe way. I would think it would also be hard to sanitize the hand feeding equipment, you would not want the babies to get sick.


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## srtiels

OK...a Sporting Goods type store would have those air activated hand warmers. They are an envelope with some dry chemicals in them and when the wrapper is removed and you shake/squeeze/whatever, they start to get warm. They ususally last 12 hours or more. Make sure they are placed under plenty of bedding. 

At Radio Shack you can usually find all kinds of gadgets. You might be able to find a car cigarette lighter element to use to warm water. 

And for mixing formula use disposable cups, and spoons. Mix up a gallon of water with a small amount of bleach in it. Use this water in another cup to swish and rinse out syringes.


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## atvchick95

srtiels said:


> OK...a Sporting Goods type store would have those air activated hand warmers. They are an envelope with some dry chemicals in them and when the wrapper is removed and you shake/squeeze/whatever, they start to get warm. They ususally last 12 hours or more. Make sure they are placed under plenty of bedding.
> 
> At Radio Shack you can usually find all kinds of gadgets. You might be able to find a car cigarette lighter element to use to warm water.
> 
> And for mixing formula use disposable cups, and spoons. Mix up a gallon of water with a small amount of bleach in it. Use this water in another cup to swish and rinse out syringes.



my dad has several of the warmers you sit on when you go hunting - we always called them his Butt warmers. it feels like it has pellets inside but you bend it a few times then sit on it and it warms up and your but stays warm - they also use them on Stadium seating like when watching a live foot ball game in the winter 

I tried looking for a pic haven't found one yet though 

starting to think they don't make them any more lol


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## barocio76

thankyou srtiels, a very good idea. I did find some air activated warmers in the medicine isle, for your back and pain areas but i think they do the same thing. some last 8 hrs and some last 12 hrs. to heat up the formula, we have a propane camping stove were bringing with us so ill bring the small pot i usually use to heat up the water in. and ill get disposable spoons and cups or small bowls. My husband and the kids will be so happy now that ill be able to go with them camping. 

Now should i leave the birds in their heated bowl in the car with windows up so it will be warmer in there? i will only leave windows up if it is chilly outside, if not i could leave them cracked open? Or should i keep the birds in the tent with me?


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## atvchick95

I would actually get something like this (This is how the lady who I bought roxy from almost 2 years ago brought her, and when I go to bird fairs and they're hand feeding babies they're normally in things like this (well the smaller birds anyway lol) 









http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753371

I wouldn't want to chance them being out in the "open" in a bowl - could catch a chill even if its nice weather to us it may not be to tiny birds.


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## barocio76

*updated pics*

so here are updated pictures of my baby cockatiels. And I noticed the parents are mating again and as of yesterday there is an egg in the nest box. Is that ok, or is it too close to wintertime?

And Can anyone tell if these are boys or girls? I noticed the darker bird has grey on the face. and the lighter bird has yellow on the face area. or does this not mean anything yet?

oh, and i didnt end up going camping. just to be safe, i just stayed home with the birdies and our puppy and one year old daughter. I stayed home with all the babies.  I felt better that i did and am glad that i did. But thanks for all your suggestions.


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## srtiels

Wow...they have really grown!!!

Right now you can't tell the sex.

OK...question...on the dark eyed baby...is the upper beak sitting inside the lower one? All the time, or just now when the pix was taken? If all the time try and reposition it and hold it briefly for 30 seconds at a time where the upper beak is overlapping the lower beak. If it is not repostion (beak therapy) while still young like this it will have a real bad underbite and the lower beak will start curving upwards like a shovel.


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## barocio76

yes,i checked and dark eyed baby has upper beak sitting inside of the bottom beak. How can i fix this?


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## Tony's Tiels

And what would cause this beak deformity ?

I think SR is saying you need to use your hands to hold the lower beak in the correct position for 30 seconds at a time frequently thru out the day.
the correct position is like the other white chick.


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## barocio76

ok, thankyou. Ill do that. Even though she is almost a month and a half, its not too late for her beak to be fixed? when do their beaks get like the parents beaks are?


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## silverflower

The beaks are always like the parents beaks, only the babies are not as strong. I don't think it is too late, just make sure you do it as often as possible. Good luck and don't fret, you can correct it!


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## barocio76

yes, thats what i meant. when do the babies beaks start to get as strong as the partents beaks are, or as hard as the parents beaks are? but thankyou. Ive been trying to work on that, though baby birdie doesnt like it very much.


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## silverflower

Oh sorry, I am not sure about that.


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## srtiels

No, the baby will not like it at first because it will hurt some because the muscles and jaw bones have also become distorted. But while still young all these bones are not fully hard,they are still flexible. They atart to gain strength once the baby is fully eating on it's own.

The lower beak may also have to be trimmed back anf shaped with the slight *V* notch so that the upper beak properly aligns up. In the interim, keep trying to reposition and hold the beak in place several timnes a day. The upper beak has to be encouraged to grow normally. As long as it is inside the lower beak this forces the upper beaks tip to curve and grow into the mouth ...not good.


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## Tony's Tiels

SR, what are some causes of this particular deformity ?


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## srtiels

Baby beaks are soft, and sometimes this can happen on how they are being fed by the parents or also handfeeding. Too much pressure is put on the upper beak which can shift developing bones.

Another cause, though I did not notice it when they were younger, is from food and debry accumulating under the tongue. Yeast and bacteria developes and this tends to cause the lower beak to gorw out and flatten like a shovel tip. The upper beak will either curve into the lower beak, or be mis-aligned and grow on either side of the lower beak like a scissors.


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## barocio76

who can trim the bottom beak, and do the slight v thing for me? or can i do it?


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## srtiels

I used to have pix's of how to trim and shape it, but I can't find them. It takes about 30 sec with a nail clippers. Looking at another tiel for comparison helps to show length and location/depth of the *v*

If corrected early it may start growing in normal after the first clipping. Sometimes it may take a few months, and several clippings to finially get it growing correctly. And physical therapy of holding the upper beak in the right position until the bones/mescles re-align right.


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## xxxSpikexxx

barocio76 said:


> who can trim the bottom beak, and do the slight v thing for me? or can i do it?


I would take the bub to an avain vet


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## srtiels

_*I would take the bub to an avain vet*_
*-----------------------------------*

In this instance if she goes to a vet she *has to be very insistant* that the lower beak *not *just be ground down with a dremel. With this type of problem it has to be carefully hand trimmed and the notch hand cut.


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## barocio76

*help?*

confused::tiel2:Here are some updated pictures of my baby cockatiels, Im still having trouble with the grey ones beak, if you can see in the picture, she is not sitting still for me to hold her beak in place. Is there something else i can do, or anything temporary i can put on her beak maybe? She is trying to peck at the food i leave in the cage, with her beak like this, can it prevent her from being able to eat on her own? the bread, the millet, the pellets?

So is it just me or does the grey cockatiel look like a female and the yellow one look like it could be a male? the grey one is almost a month and a half and the yellow one is about a month old. 

One other thing is when i try to hand feed they are barely eating, and i know they arent hardly eating anything at all that im leaving in the cage, does this mean something is wrong?


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## barocio76

should i try posting to another section about asking on how to fix the grey babies beak? I try to hold it the way it should be for 30 secs at a time, but birdie doesnt sit long enough for me to hold it for 30 secs at a time. she barely lets me hold it for a few secs at a time. And is her beak like that going to prevent her from being able to eat her millet?


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