# Chronic Polyuria?



## Thunderbird (Jun 18, 2012)

My 5yo female cockatiel Igor is my trouble bird. She's always had very frequent and watery droppings, and she's always been a big drinker. It seems like her droppings were more normal when I got her (she was six months then), but for at least a couple years her droppings have been mostly water. I figured it wasn't a big deal, because she doesn't seem to have any other health issues.

But lately I'll find her vomiting every once in a while. Again, it's almost all water, but with a few seeds and no digested bits. She did this once or twice when she was younger, but only when she was really scared. Now she'll do it for no apparent reason. When I took her to the vet for this, they treated her for an imbalance of bacteria in her gut, but since then the vomiting has continued. I've been reading up on this again because her vomiting and urinating (and horniness) seem to have gotten worse the last week or two. I've read birds can have diabetes. Could that be responsible for the vomiting as well as the excessive urinating? If not, what other causes could there be? Maybe kidney problems or a hormone imbalance? 

In case it's relevant, she's bigger width-wise than the other two tiels (I think it's muscle because she's such a good flier), and she seems to be abnormally horny (she's always trying to mate with me, despite all efforts to regulate her sleep cycle). Sometimes she also tosses her head back and forth in a figure 8 while chirping loudly for no apparent reason.


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## tielbob (Mar 25, 2013)

You should get her checked out and have some lab work done. I've had two polyuric tiels over the years, both had impaired kidney function and one was diabetic. You need to see how her kidneys are doing and rule out any other diseases (besides diabetes) that could be causing polyuria (don't look for a definitive answer on the diabetes question, though, because that takes an extended hospital stay, repeated blood analysis, and a lot of money with little benefit, if any, to all the testing. With all that you will probably not get a yes/no answer to 'is she diabetic?' because diabetes in birds is different from how it is in humans, and is not well understood.)

The story is long with the diabetic bird, but I found her condition was managed well by dietary/environmental adjustments. But let's not assume your bird is diabetic.

The other polyuric bird did well with a diet that was easier on the kidneys, and I had her over 15 years even though she had the kidney problems from about age 1.

But you really need to start with an exam that includes blood work to get some idea of what's going on.


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## tielbob (Mar 25, 2013)

duplicate post - admin please delete


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## Thunderbird (Jun 18, 2012)

What sort of dietary adjustments were needed? Were they the sort of thing that would be ok for birds without diabetes or kidney problems? I'm mostly asking because as a college student with limited funds, I'd like to try what I can at home and keep vet bills to a minimum.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I really think you need to invest the money in some diagnostics, like tielbob recommended if/when it's possible. Tests can be expensive, but in the longrun it can also save a lot of money and anxiety if you have a good idea of what's going on from the beginning. The symptoms you've described are concerning enough that I don't think you have time to try dietary adjustments without at least confirming that something more serious isn't going on. Vomiting is typically considered an emergency in birds.


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## tielbob (Mar 25, 2013)

enigma731 said:


> I really think you need to invest the money in some diagnostics, like tielbob recommended if/when it's possible. Tests can be expensive, but in the longrun it can also save a lot of money and anxiety if you have a good idea of what's going on from the beginning. The symptoms you've described are concerning enough that I don't think you have time to try dietary adjustments without at least confirming that something more serious isn't going on. Vomiting is typically considered an emergency in birds.


Agreed.

My polyuric birds did not vomit but your Igor is - you really need to get a good diagnosis based on lab tests combined with an expert evaluation. The care I gave my birds was supportive - I tried to apply my best guess at what would be helpful to them but this was after other underlying diseases/infections were tested for and ruled out.

I understand the financial pressure but to do your best for Igor you have to get the testing done, and quickly I hope. Supportive care is the last resort 'we have nothing to lose at this point since there isn't anything else we can do' approach - you aren't there now and hopefully whatever is going on with Igor can be diagnosed and treated successfully - just be mindful that time is not on your side as noted by enigma (vomiting generally signals an emergency).

On a secondary note (I say that because you need to do the testing first because Igor might not even have kidney problems), I found an article that summarizes kidney disease issues and supportive care for it - it's a recent article but the recommendations are consistent with what I did on my own many years ago. I don't want to violate terms of service here and I don't have time to read them now as it's in the middle of the night - I just want to get a response over to you via this post. If you send me your email using the private message system here I'll email you a link to the article, and I'll be happy to discuss it with you (Oh well, I hope just saying that doesn't violate the tos.)

You can check with the vet to see if they have a financing plan to spread expenses over time, but in any case please get Igor checked out as soon as possible. If you think your present vet would be reluctant to do anything further (since he/she already dealt with this problem earlier) then you might have to seek out another avian vet. Keep us informed and feel free to pm me as I said


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

Does Igor's droppings have any urates? What do the urates look like (if any?)

I hope you decide to take Igor to the vet and get some tests done (as the others have said, further testing and bloodwork will be needed to figure out what is going on). Best of luck for the both of you and I hope it's nothing serious but it does sound like Igor needs help really soon. Sending good thoughts and hugs your way from my flock and I.


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## Thunderbird (Jun 18, 2012)

Vickitiel said:


> Does Igor's droppings have any urates? What do the urates look like (if any?)


Usually, no. Her droppings are almost entirely a clear, colorless liquid that leaves a pale sparkly crust when it dries on dark objects. Sometimes there's little curls of soft olive-colored feces. 

Alright, I'll make a call to the regular vet and see what she says. Though I am worried about going down too many dead ends with this. Nothing I can find says anything about semi-frequent vomiting over long periods of time; everything's about more acute problems.


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## tielbob (Mar 25, 2013)

Do a google search of the following term with no spaces 'kidneydiseasebirds' - the first (top) link that comes up for me is the article I was talking about.

From that article, referring to kidney disease:

"Common Symptoms


A bird with poorly functioning kidneys may drink increased amounts of water and urinate more often -- in an attempt to flush out those waste products in its blood stream that the kidneys are no longer capable of eliminating into the urine.
Depending upon the cause of kidney dysfunction, the pet's owners may notice watery droppings.
The pet may have an enlarged abdomen, become unable to fly, regurgitate, vomit or become constipated."


This doesn't mean that Igor has kidney disease, but it's significant because the article doesn't make a distinction between acute or chronic symptoms.


I hope you have an avian vet, or if you are in a remote area where there are none, you have access to someone who has expertise in treating birds. Some vets will take birds as a client when they should just be sticking to cats and dogs which is what they see all day long with the exception of your bird. This is not someone who is going to helpful with Igor's problems.
(Example: Taking blood from a cockatiel is not an easy thing for even an avian vet to do - and if they can't safely draw a blood sample then they won't be able to do much of anything diagnostically).


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Avian medicine is such a young field that a lot of things still aren't documented. Chronic vomiting is a thing that can happen in birds, although I agree that it is hard to find information on it. One of my birds has periodic undiagnosed GI problems, and I know of several others in rescues I've worked with. 

Unfortunately, because not much is known about these kinds of conditions in birds, it's basically a matter of ruling out acute problems. So, it may be that you don't get an exact diagnosis, but you still need to rule out infection or acute organ failure because either of those would need emergent treatment. You can ask specifically for a complete blood count and organ function test. If all of that comes back normal, then I think considering dietary/environmental changes may be a good route to take. But first you need to make sure it isn't something else that needs a more aggressive treatment.


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## adriano (Feb 26, 2016)

*Somewhat experienced guess here ...*

From past issue (had friend with cockatiel with complete kidney failure) and current (my wonderful guy has kidney tumor) it is most likely something with the kidneys. They seem to be (1) not functioning properly and (2) enlarged. you know why I say this? The kidneys are close to the reproductive systems of birds so something is pressed up against them and stimulating them into overdrive. Based on what you describe, that something is most likely the kidney. Or it can be a forming egg that's pressing on both the kidney and the system. If it's the kidney it's either a tumor or bacteria-caused inflammation. If it's a stuck egg it needs to be removed surgically if extra calcium doesn't do the trick (besides strengthening the shell it forces induced contractions to expel the egg).

You're getting a tax return soon right? If not for whatever reason swallow your pride and ask around if your vet would consider a plan. 

Also there's care plus. It's like a credit card but only for medical reasons. They have this for vets too now.

Even thought I can narrow it down for you to a few things, you really need a bit more to figure out a course of treatment.

Look around for a local humane society that will have dramatically reduced rates. 

But they may be buys and not be able to accommodate your right away.

5 years from now you'll never miss or remember a few hundred dollars but you will miss and remember your feathered friends, I guarantee you this.


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