# More poop... :/



## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

*More poop... :/ UPDATE: pg. 4*

After 2-3 weeks of multiple hormone reduction techniques, Missy's hormonal..."activities", shall we say, have finally come to a halt it seems! No more *cough* making love to her perch *cough*, no huge poops, etc etc.

BUT, I have a new question about her poop from today. This one was from just a few minutes ago, and I'd never seen one like this, so it scared me. :s

























Her droppings in the cage I see from during the night look totally normal and are solid. She had done some flying but that was earlier this morning, during her morning lap around the room. It's now 4:30pm. She has had a slight change in diet as I've been adding a small bit of a new seed mix and mixing it in her current mix, as well as starting a slow transition from ZuPreem pellets over to Harrison's.
She did not have any veggies or sprouts this morning or yesterday morning.

This is the dropping from right before the really weird looking one:









This one was after it (seed hull was not a part of it):


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## littletiel (May 15, 2011)

Maybe this link can help?
http://www.cockatielcottage.net/droppings.html


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## Brandon2k14 (Nov 26, 2014)

That first one looks like a baby alien lol.Ive never seen a poop like that either.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

It's fine, that's one of the normal variations of watery poop. I'd only worry if it stays like that consistently for more than a few hours.


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## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

enigma731 said:


> It's fine, that's one of the normal variations of watery poop. I'd only worry if it stays like that consistently for more than a few hours.


Thank you! ;v; I'll keep an eye on her!
It was so odd-looking, I had to take a photo and ask. :'D


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

It reminds me of a baby alien encased in a see-through egg, too. I'd be worried if I saw a poop like that, too. Hormones can definitely make their poops change rapidly! When Honey was laying she did some pretty horrendous looking droppings.


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## TamaMoo (Jan 12, 2014)

CharVicki said:


> Hormones can definitely make their poops change rapidly! When Honey was laying she did some pretty horrendous looking droppings.


Joey has had some odd looking poos lately No baby aliens, of course, but some odd ones. I was hoping it was all down to hormones. Things seemed to get a lot better when he got over the worst of his need to do unnatural things to his food dish perch. He's now just grump and demanding attention and screechy, and his poop seems to be back to normal.


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## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

"What has been seen cannot be unseen." XD I now see it as a baby alien. :'D

Her poops are not as watery but still pretty loose. :/


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## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

I feel like I'm just being so obsessed over a few droppings, but I'm debating if I should set up an appointment for an exam - for peace of mind, if anything.

Or, I didn't think of this until now, email the photos to her vet and see if he thinks an appointment should be in order.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Emailing the vet sounds like a good idea


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## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

I emailed him.  He's usually pretty fast in responding so I should have news from him, possibly tomorrow morning.

Also, if anyone is interested, here are the larger version of a couple of the above photos. I've been looking at it more closely, and I'm seeing bubbles and stringy urates; both of which from what I've read can mean something's up. >__<

























I haven't seen any more bubbles today, thankfully.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I still think those are within the range of normal, but it will be interesting to see what the vet thinks.


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

Honey and Henry tend to have stringy urates too. I'm interested to know what your vet thinks about Missy's poops.


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## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

Response from the vet:


> The issue with these droppings is the amount of clear fluid. This is urine. It is more than what should be present. It indicates that some blood work needs to be done to check liver funciton, kidney function, and check for diabetes. I am sorry to say that I will not be available to help with this until the end of next week and that is too long. [...] <The next portion of the email is him directing me to one of the other avian vets in town.>


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

It's good that he responded so quickly! I would bet money that the bloodwork will come back normal, but I agree that if her poops have been that watery for more than a day, it probably should be checked out.


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## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

Yeah, I love her vet.  I even switched my dog over to him as well, because as much as I liked Dixie's vet, his staff was constantly screwing things up or very rude.

Looks like some bloodwork is in order for the little gal, then! ;v; I'll try to set an appointment for tomorrow, if possible. Lucky I work closings nearly all this week!

I hope you're right! For curiosity's sake, if it turned out to be diabetes, what are some things that could be done for her? (I'm sure Dr. Kilbane will tell me, but I'd like to be prepared a little bit!)


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I think diabetes in birds is usually managed by diet, and maybe oral medications. It's different from diabetes in humans -- in humans diabetes is caused by a deficit of insulin, but in birds it's usually caused by over-production of hormones that increase blood glucose. So the treatment regimen is different than it is for humans too. (I haven't looked at this in a few years, so I don't remember specifics, sorry.)


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## Charlotte (Jun 4, 2014)

Murray is hormonal right now, and it's typical for her to do ones like this - especially in the first half of the day before lunchtime, for some reason...


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## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

enigma731 said:


> I think diabetes in birds is usually managed by diet, and maybe oral medications. It's different from diabetes in humans -- in humans diabetes is caused by a deficit of insulin, but in birds it's usually caused by over-production of hormones that increase blood glucose. So the treatment regimen is different than it is for humans too. (I haven't looked at this in a few years, so I don't remember specifics, sorry.)


Thanks just the same! I'll probably ask the vet anyway. 



Charlotte said:


> Murray is hormonal right now, and it's typical for her to do ones like this - especially in the first half of the day before lunchtime, for some reason...


Missy just got over her raging hormones, so there's a possibility it could be something like that, I suppose.

- - - - -

Missy has an appointment for tomorrow morning at 10:30am.


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## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

Her latest dropping.


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## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

This morning's droppings are much more solid. 

Big morning poop:


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## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

Missy finished up at the vet about an hour ago. The vet was very thorough and explained everything he was doing and why. (The only thing I didn't like was he pushes an all-pellet diet, and seed is virtually the enemy of all psittacines.)

Did a physical and he was very impressed with her physical condition. I showed him the photos of all the droppings and he said the bubbles could mean an infection. They took blood and the results should be in tomorrow. But said we're looking at possibly kidney infection. He also mentioned kidney disease. :/

They had to give her a wee bit of gas to draw the blood (he took half from her neck and I believe half from her wing??), so he said she may be a little drowsy and to keep her relaxed for the next 2-3 days.

Finally back home!


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## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

Since my mind was going a million miles a minute trying to take everything in he was saying, I forgot to ask: If it's kidney infection, what's the course of treatment? What about kidney failure or kidney disease? Is it "fixable" or something that can be managed?


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## TamaMoo (Jan 12, 2014)

No answers, but Joey and I are sending hugs and scritches her way, with feel better thoughts added for good measure.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

RowdyTiel said:


> Since my mind was going a million miles a minute trying to take everything in he was saying, I forgot to ask: If it's kidney infection, what's the course of treatment? What about kidney failure or kidney disease? Is it "fixable" or something that can be managed?


For infection, antibiotics. If kidney disease, it may or may not be a curable condition. Sometimes diet issues can cause kidney problems, in which case it would be reversible. If progressive disease, then there are medications and supplements that can be used to manage at least for a while. 

But I highly, _highly _doubt it's kidney disease. If it were, I'd expect her to have other symptoms, and for the poop to be consistently watery, not on and off.


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## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

TamaMoo said:


> No answers, but Joey and I are sending hugs and scritches her way, with feel better thoughts added for good measure.


Thanks, guys! <3



enigma731 said:


> For infection, antibiotics. If kidney disease, it may or may not be a curable condition. Sometimes diet issues can cause kidney problems, in which case it would be reversible. If progressive disease, then there are medications and supplements that can be used to manage at least for a while.
> 
> But I highly, _highly _doubt it's kidney disease. If it were, I'd expect her to have other symptoms, and for the poop to be consistently watery, not on and off.


Thanks very much, enigma - you've been so helpful with all of this! I really appreciate it.

I'll let you all know what the results of the tests are and what the vet says.


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## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

Results weren't in today. More than likely, they'll have them by tomorrow. 

Her droppings have been so inconsistent today. She also hasn't been pooping as much either. Since 9am (it's now 6pm), she's only pooped 6 times.  Not very active either. It seems like she's been napping all day.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

That may just be her recovering from the blood draw. It takes a lot out of them.


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## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

I hope so. I've been hovering over her so much lately, I think I may be over-reacting to every little change! :')


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I know, it's tough. But remember they can sense our stress, so the best thing you can do is to try to treat her as normally as possible.


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## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

Still haven't gotten a call today and the office has been closed for half an hour now. It's hard to be patient! :') Missy's a wee bit back to herself today minus the watery droppings. I'm off to the store for some spray millet. We've been out of them for awhile and she deserves a treat.


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## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

Missy has liver disease and some inflammation.

He recommended an antibiotic for the inflammation and denamarin for her liver. Milk Thistle was discussed and he said he could help me with the dosage if that was the route I wanted to go.


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## TamaMoo (Jan 12, 2014)

Poor girl. I am glad to hear he has given you treatment options. Did he sound optimistic?


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## Vickitiel (Oct 10, 2012)

Oh my gosh  I'm so sorry to hear that Missy isn't well. I hope the treatments will make her feel better. Your vet sounds like a good guy so Missy will be in good hands. Sending plenty of hugs and kisses to you and Missy from me and my flock! :flowers:


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## RowdyTiel (Jan 24, 2013)

TamaMoo said:


> Poor girl. I am glad to hear he has given you treatment options. Did he sound optimistic?


I don't know how progressed it is (I need to email him now that I have more questions that I didn't think to ask earlier on the phone), but he didn't give me the impression that she was on death's door either. So hopefully, it's not advanced to the point that it can't repair itself or, at the very least, be managed.



CharVicki said:


> Oh my gosh  I'm so sorry to hear that Missy isn't well. I hope the treatments will make her feel better. Your vet sounds like a good guy so Missy will be in good hands. Sending plenty of hugs and kisses to you and Missy from me and my flock! :flowers:


Thanks <3 He really seems to be. I'm glad my regular vet suggested him, because I'm not too sure there are any other vets in town that I would trust with birds even though they do accept avian patients!


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