# New punishment for cussing Discussion



## roxy culver

I really wish it didnt have to come to this but the mods and i are tired of changing words in threads. Cussing is not and never has been allowed on this forum and there is no excuse for it. I am a sailor and i can control myself. Children view this forum so we need to keep it clean. On that note, from now on anyone that cusses will get an infraction. No warnings no excuses we have talked about it before and now we will take avtion. Its sad we have to but maybe this will curb the language i have seen on here lately.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## moonchild

I don't know if it's possible to have the words automatically censor, but that might help! For instance, any really bad word typed would turn into **** or whatever. Nobody gets in trouble, saves the mods work. I've seen that feature on other forums (and no I am not saying the other forums are better, just that it can be done).

On another note, are there guidelines somewhere on the site for what's acceptable and what's not? Obviously I know what's DEFINITELY not allowed, i.e. "F-bombs" etc. There are other words, though, that I don't consider cussing but others might not like if they were REALLY sensitive (feel free to pm me if you want to know what I'm talking about, don't want to get in trouble).


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## CaliTiels

Moony, what about "cock"? I don't consider this cursing, but that is the term for a male bird. I use it a lot because I prefer to refer to it properly and am not sure I want to see **** every time I refer to boy birds. Just throwing in my 2 cents


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## bobobubu

Roxy I agree that cussing words are not acceptable, but I also agree with Moonchild that there are words a few people might consider offensive but they are generally accepted and innocuous. I am not talking about heavy words, we all know which they are and I of course they shouldn't be used.


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## moonchild

Well, obviously on a BIRD site cock shouldn't be censored! haha. Whoever implements the system does get to decide which words count and which ones don't. I actually protested "gay" being automatically censored on TB because I don't think there is anything wrong with any meaning of the word (and if people are using it immaturely or as an insult THEY should be banned not the word). And, it was actually reviewed and changed because of my request. So it's definitely on a case by case basis!


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## tielfan

There must have been a censorship function on the site at one time, because several years ago I DID get bleeped for calling a male bird a cock. It was hilarious. 

This is a vBulletin forum, and here is info on vBulletin's censorship options: https://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/main/acp_settings_options_censorship If there are unanswered questions about it, it's likely that you can find the answers by searching their website or asking for help on their tech support forum http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/

Unrelated side comment: I once got bleeped on a completely unrelated forum for talking about shiitake mushrooms, and yes I did spell it with two i's.


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## tielfan

P.S. Apparently vBulletin doesn't have a pre-made list of censored words that you can install with the touch of a button. But you can find such lists if you google for "censored word list", for example http://www.bannedwordlist.com/


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## roxy culver

I think I can make it so words are censored out, I've been able to do that for usernames (and sadly, I had to make cock censored unusable for that reason) but I can look into doing this (which would make it a lot easier on us!!!) I realize that we have a lot of new members but this is something that is so easy.

As for what words I'm talking about, I mean the most basic ones, the four letter words that we all know we shouldn't say. I don't consider "gay" to be a bad word so that would never have crossed my mind to censor out. Pretty much, if you can't use it as a username it probably will be a banned word. You guys can PM me if you want a list of the actual words.


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## tielfan

Plus you can always add more words as the need arises.


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## Donna63

I used to be an admin on a Emma Watson Forum and we were able to make a list of words that would be automatically censored. If the person used to many bleeped words in a post then action was taken.


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## Darkel777

Censor or not the adults here really should know better. :/


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## bobobubu

Well I have been "punished" and since the word that got me in trouble is something you would never suspect to be considered a bad word even in a convent I would like to see the list because otherwise this is gonna go on and on and on forever. 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


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## roxy culver

Well since I have set up the censorship rule, it shouldn't be an issue anymore. If the word is considered a cuss word, it'll become asterisks. This should make our jobs a lot easier.


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## allons_ykaylee

Is there maybe a way to censor only actually bad words, not parts of words? I made a post using the word, "***ociates," and the first three letters got starred out. It'll likely happen to this post as well. I just don't want to get in trouble for something like that.


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## tielfan

The censorship function is currently in overdrive lol. I was censored twice in this post: http://talkcockatiels.com/showpost.php?p=755106&postcount=2 for using this word: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/p*** I used a link because I'm not sure what would happen if I wrote p-a-s-s.

Edit: Look at that, it censored the url of the link but not the hyphenated version of the word. The link doesn't work right either, it takes you to the letter "p" in the dictionary not the word p-a-s-s because it's trying to go to p followed by three asterisks instead of the real word. 

Edit again: I once got censored on a different board for talking about shiitake mushrooms. I made this edit to see what happens here.

Third edit: Nothing happened, we can talk about mushrooms with no issues, hooray! Yes I'm being a goof.


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## CaliTiels

Sorry Carolyn, the bleeped URL kind of stuck me as funny. I do believe the censor is working overtime


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## bjknight93

I just got bleeped for ***uming and ***age. A-s-s-u-m-i-n-g and d-a-m-a-g-e. 

D-a-m isn't even a curse word so I don't really understand that.


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## tielfan

At https://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/vboptions_group_censor it tells how to set things so only the stand-alone cuss word will be censored, and similar character strings in other words will be left alone. Instead of using actual cuss words in their example, they tell you how to censor the word "dog":


> If you type "dog", all words containing the string "dog" would be censored (dogma, for instance, would appear as "***ma"). To censor more accurately, you can require that censors occur only for exact words. You can do this by placing a censor word in curly braces, as in {dog}. Signifying "dog" in the curly braces would mean that dogma would appear as dogma, but dog would appear as "***". Thus your censor list may appear as: cat {dog} {barn} barn


In this example, "cat" will always be censored even if it's part of a bigger word but "dog" will only be censored if it's those three letters and nothing else. I'm not sure why they wrote barn two different ways, probably a typo. For real cuss-word usage, you'd want to enter the F-bomb without brackets so that all its compound forms will be censored, but you'd want to put a-s-s- in curly brackets so that innocent words like a-s-s-u-m-e don't get censored.


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## tielfan

I can think of only one major variation of the the word that's a synonym for donkey. So if they put {donkey} on the censor list with the brackets and donkeyhole with no brackets, that would probably eliminate most problems with that particular word.


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## tielfan

There will always be ways to beat the censorship filter of course. We're doing it right now by adding hypens to words and using euphemisms. But by having a filter in place, people who take intentional action to beat the filter won't be able to claim that they didn't know they were breaking a rule.


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## Amz

Donna63 said:


> I used to be an admin on a Emma Watson Forum and we were able to make a list of words that would be automatically censored. If the person used to many bleeped words in a post then action was taken.


I like this idea, but I think the first infraction should receive punishment from the getgo. They should've read the rules and knew it wasn't allowed; it's a rule infraction and therefore deserves punishment.

I feel like just because we have a censorship plugin, there should still be action taken if someone uses a curse word. The censorship plugin, in my opinion, should function as a way that the admins don't have to mess with combing through posts looking for curse words. There should still be action taken if one is stumbled upon.


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## dearblythe

i'm all for adding a censorship here for minors, but only if the innocent words that are currently being bleeped out are fixed. why is p-a-s-s being bleeped? :/ makes posts difficult to decipher, because i sat there for a goof couple of minutes reading one post and wondering what that word was - all the other (should be) censored words didn't fit.


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## tielfan

It's only the last three letters of p-a-s-s that are being bleeped. I'm sure you can figure out what those three letters spell. Not that bad of a word unless you tack the word "hole" onto the end of it.

I just noticed that someone got bleeped at http://talkcockatiels.com/showpost.php?p=755737&postcount=5 for trying to write s-h-e-l-l (the last four letters were bleeped). They were talking about the you-know-what of an egg.


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## moonchild

There HAS to be a way to get rid of the partial-word bleeping...lots of words contain four letters that *on their own* are "bad."


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## bobobubu

bjknight93 said:


> D-a-m isn't even a curse word so I don't really understand that.


Well it IS a curse word (in TC world) and it is the word that got me warned, punished, cautioned, i don't even know how to call it.
I think I am the only one who has a nice badge next to my name saying that i have 0/1 (3) infractions. Which I don't even understand, the 0/1 (3).
I haven't seen anyone else with that next to their name. Well, probably Tequilagirl has.

This happened before this automatic system went active, so obviously someone must have gone checking every single post I wrote for an excuse to punish me in some way for the thread about breeding. Since I didn't cuss in that thread, because I don't, someone went to check all my posts and found "that".

Ah well, this will get me warned as well, after all you don't discuss the admins and their decisions here in TC, and if you do your threads get closed, but I am so disheartened about how things are done, not sure I care that much anymore.


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## tielfan

I can't see the badge next to your name bobobubu. Maybe it's something that only you (and probably the mods) can see.

D-a-m only becomes a cuss word if you stick an 'n' on the end. Maybe they're trying to cover all the bases in case someone spells it wrong? I guess this means I can't tell anyone about the time I went to the Hoover *** lol.


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## bobobubu

no you will have to talk about the Hoover Embankment from now on, sorry :lol:

Well. I have no idea who sees this, but in every one of my posts, under Profile, mine says

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK, East Midlands
Posts: 1,034
Infractions: 0/1 (3)

Do you see an Infractions line underneath your Posts count? 
If you don't see that on your own posts, that means that only I got that line in my profile.


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## tielfan

I can see the first three lines in the profile box in your posts but not the last one. That one is just for your personal edification I suppose. I have the first three lines in my posts too but I don't have an infractions line. If I received an infraction this line would probably appear. I will be careful when I talk about water-retaining structures to make sure I never have to look at such a line lol.


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## ollieandme

Only mods and the person see the infraction line.
That infraction was not to backlash about the breeding thread - it was to enforce our new rule regarding swear words. If we had wanted to infract or warn about the breeding thread, we would've done so separately.


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## bobobubu

Then I would like to know why I am the only one having that line.
This is obviously retaliation since nobody else received such a line added to their profile.
I am the only one who had the admins hunt down every single post I wrote. You didn't do it with anybody else.
You don't want to call it retaliation? well, call it petty revenge then.
You either decide to implement an automated system, or you read every single post by EVERYONE and caution people about it.
If you have a shred of coherence you either do one thing or the other. Not whatever you fancy in any given moment and depending on the person.


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## ollieandme

Bobo, you are ***uming (lol that's the automated system for you. a-s-s-u-m-i-n-g) you are the only person with an infraction line! but you actually aren't able to see other's infraction lines. there is no way for you to know what members do and don't have infractions - it's something only mods and admins know. you can't claim you're being hunted.
we are issuing infractions for all swear words that are written AFTER Roxy posted this new rule in the thread. we are not going to backtrack and infract previous cussing. your swear word is the only one i have seen lately - if you see others around, you can report the post if you want.
Roxy has implemented an automated system now which means that the staff do not have do edit every post with asterisks or substitute words. people who swear (even though the words are asterisked) will still receive infractions because frankly, it's unnecessary to swear in written language.
if you have any other issues feel free to pm any of the staff


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## Renae

bobobubu said:


> Then I would like to know why I am the only one having that line.
> This is obviously retaliation since nobody else received such a line added to their profile.


Considering members (apparently) aren’t able to see who has got an infraction, and who hasn’t, how do you know you are the only one with one, and no one else has got one (or more)?! I can go through the whole list of members and post each one that has got an infraction/infractions, some of them have more than one, some people have 2, I am pretty sure if you get 3, you are banned, I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, in the past there has been people who have gotten 3 which resulted in them being banned. 

It is not retaliation (nor revenge for that matter), you seem to be a tad worried that admins are out to get you, and you are the only one who has been given an infraction, and you aren’t.


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## tielfan

In other words, people are going to banned for making asterisks appear if the context makes it look like they might have said a naughty word, even though some of the asterisk-producing words are very mild and at least one is not considered to be a swear word at all.


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## bjknight93

I mean...if we fix the words with the { } then we won't have the problem. If we do that then stars will only show up when people are actually cussing. Someone actually said rat's a** (yes, I bleeped myself out) the other day and it was starred out from the system but it was not edited or anything. So we need to report that stuff? Good to know.

Edit: I edited this because like half my post mysteriously disappeared..


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## Amz

bjknight93 said:


> I mean...if we fix the words with the { } then we won't have the problem. If we do that then stars will only show up when people are actually cussing. Someone actually said rat's a** (<--yes, I bleeped it myself) in their thread yesterday and I don't know that that has been edited or dealt with. So we're still to report posts that have actual cursing in it?


I agree. It seems like using {these} would solve the problem, and give us a custom bad-word list. Why not do that?


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## tielfan

I don't understand why cussing is considered to be such a problem that it needs an automatic harsh reaction with no questions asked and no exceptions. It doesn't even happen all that often and it's frequently not intended as insult when it does happen. The average kid here probably knows more cuss words than I do and doesn't need protection from words like H-E-double hockey sticks. The inevitable result is going to be more people getting mad and leaving the forum because they think they're being treated unreasonably. 

As it is, if somebody who doesn't know about the zero tolerance rule playfully writes "what the **** is this all about", typing in the asterisks themselves not writing an actual swear word, that person is going to be in the same amount of trouble as someone who angrily cusses somebody out. Will people also get in trouble for writing WTF (the three letters not the complete words)? Because it means exactly the same thing. Using swear words to express anger at another member creates a hostile atmosphere, but there's no hostility in occasionally using or suggesting a naughty word just because that's the way people talk. 

But to be honest, I don't really care what happens to this board any more. I'm still here obviously, but the thread at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=61753 broke something in my head and the love and loyalty that I used to feel for TC are gone now. So there's no need to have a big discussion or anything, and management can just carry on with whatever they want to do.


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## Amz

I agree that cussing shouldn't be a big deal, I mean, outside of this forum I spam smilies and I curse like a sailor. But if it's the rules Roxy wants enforced, then that's that. I admin on another forum and I can't tell you how irritated I get when people may as well have said to my face that they didn't read the rules, because they break such an easy one to follow. It's not about the cussing for me, as much as it is the disregard for the rules. If they don't follow this rule, one of the easiest one there is, they obviously won't follow the others, either.


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## moonchild

Caroyln, I like you. 

I am A-S-S-uming that there must be a way to make this autocensorship thing work! I hope I won't get an infraction for this, but if the staff are having trouble you may want to get in touch with the staff of other major forums like Avian Avenue and get their advice (it works very well there).


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## Amz

Not sure if I'm allowed to even suggest it, but I would be more than happy to serve on staff if need be. I spend a good bit of time online, I just don't post as often as I should because I'm more of a lurker than anything. Like I said, I admin on another forum and I spend a lot of time making sure everything is ship-shape around there. I'm dedicated to that job because I know it's a huge responsibility with others depending on me. I also have a bit of HTML/CSS skill.

I feel like this place is hugely understaffed. There are hundreds of members that frequent, and only three active mods and one semi-active mod. Sarah stopped coming online in September and I only see lperry on once every week or so. Dave never comes, or Yung, and the other admin is a website name.

If not me, then someone else. There are several capable members I can think of off the top of my head.


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## CaliTiels

I agree. Perhaps we need more staff to TC. It may run smoother, you never know  I can think of some able bodies too, but to the staff of TC, this is your call, do whatever feels right and I will be more than happy to help out in any way I can


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## tielfan

> I am A-S-S-uming that there must be a way to make this autocensorship thing work!


I posted the solution to the bleeping of innocent words earlier today: http://talkcockatiels.com/showpost.php?p=756873&postcount=18 I just got bleeped for talking about seeding gr***es by the way.


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## tielfan

> But if it's the rules Roxy wants enforced, then that's that.


I like Roxy, but she isn't the owner of the board with the inherent right to do anything she wants. The other mods at the time (including me) recommended her to be admin because we desperately needed someone who could carry out certain admin-only functions. She was chosen over everyone else because we trusted her to be fair and reasonable, and expected her to take the opinions of others and the general welfare of the entire board into consideration when she made decisions. It wasn't a job opening for a dictator who would hand out orders that the rest of us had to obey. 

At that time some of the mods tended to operate on the principle of "let's strictly enforce the rules just because they ARE the rules and rules are there to be enforced", which is what started the negative atmosphere and the exodus of members from this board. Roxy was chosen to counterbalance this tendency, not to reinforce it. The whole purpose of the rules is to promote a peaceful, respectful atmosphere where people can freely exchange information and ideas. It's destructive, not helpful, when there's nit-picking rule enforcement in situations where no one intended to disrupt the forum.


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## Amz

But what are we supposed to do? There have to be rules, and sometimes to me, it feels like people protest the dumbest things. It's like they think they should be exempt from the rules.

And Roxy is right, there are kids that come around here. It's up to the older folk to set a good example, and refusing to follow rules and tossing around unnecessary curse words isn't a good example. Even if it's a stupid rule, people need to just get over it and follow it, unless it's directly affecting them and the way they use this site. And I don't mean something minor like watching your language, something that takes little effort to obey. I'm talking large scale stuff.

The way I see it, being here is a privilege, not a right, and to be rewarded the privilege of membership, there are rules to follow. It's social contract, and it's how government works, too.


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## bjknight93

tielfan said:


> But to be honest, I don't really care what happens to this board any more. I'm still here obviously, but the thread at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=61753 broke something in my head and the love and loyalty that I used to feel for TC are gone now. So there's no need to have a big discussion or anything, and management can just carry on with whatever they want to do.


I've been there for a while. Why do you think M-I-C-H-E-L-L-E (that's right-I can't even write her name right now) left? We just don't feel the same way we once did about TC. I used to really enjoy the community here. But lately I've been only a lurker, and anything I've contributed is only for the benefit of the birds. We will always have p-a-s-s-i-o-n for the birds after all, no matter where we are or what community we are or aren't a part of. 

It took Mic****e quite a long time to leave this place, because once you've become part of this community and have helped countless birds in so many different ways..it becomes quite difficult to detach yourself from that. But there also comes a time you decide it simply isn't worth supporting a place you don't agree with anymore.

But this thread is about cussing, so I'll get off my tangent. We've already identified the problem, and how to fix it by using {these} to censor only the bad words and not the inside other words. It is now up to Yung or Roxy to fix it, but we should probably count on Roxy since Yung is rarely around.


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## tielfan

Some rules that are necessary because they promote a good atmosphere on the board. It's not necessary to have rules that promote a repressive atmosphere by unnecessarily stifling free speech. We don't want people angrily cussing at each other because that's a hostile atmosphere. If we slap an infraction on someone who is telling a story and says "I didn't pay attention to where I was walking and fell on my ***" that is also a hostile atmosphere IMO.


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## Renae

tielfan said:


> In other words, people are going to banned for making asterisks appear if the context makes it look like they might have said a naughty word, even though some of the asterisk-producing words are very mild and at least one is not considered to be a swear word at all.


I hope that either Yung, or Roxy, will see your solution to fix this so no one gets banned/receives an infraction for using a word that appears to look like a cuss word, because it is replaced with asterisks, when it wasn’t. I certainly wouldn’t want this to happen to anyone, it would definitely be unfair, and very understandable if someone was to get angry about it.


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## ollieandme

I'm sure Roxy will tend to the auto-censor stuff when she comes on.

Maybe TC is understaffed. But it seems to me that whenever we do do active "staffing", everyone kicks up a stink and complains about the rules and the heavy-handedness. More staff will mean even more active moderation - not sure if many people are keen for that


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## bobobubu

ollieandme said:


> Bobo, (...) you can't claim you're being hunted.
> we are issuing infractions for all swear words that are written AFTER Roxy posted this new rule in the thread. we are not going to backtrack and infract previous cussing.


Ollieandme, this is UNTRUE.
The thread (mine was post #1) where my supposed cussing happened is dated 12/7. 
This thread about cussing punishment started on 12/14.
So maybe you understand why not only I am feeling singled out about this, but also why at this point I have a big problem thinking about the why. Call me paranoid, but when you go back 7 days to find a "cuss" word in one of my posts, this can't be a random thing.




Renae said:


> It is not retaliation (nor revenge for that matter), you seem to be a tad worried that admins are out to get you, and you are the only one who has been given an infraction, and you aren’t.


As I said above, it is obvious that you went back one week to "get" me, so if you want to dismiss my posts here making me look like a whining paranoid, please do it, but it doesn't look nice on you.

I feel I spent too much time on this thread. Thing is, I hate injustice, and I hate even more abuse of power directed to who can do very little to defend themselves.

Just like the thread about Tapatalk, now this comes to mind but there must be many others, the thread gets closed down when members are voicing their discontent and are trying to do something to make administrators change their minds using perfectly valid reasoning.

As the idea of encouraging members to g-r-a-s-s up fellow members for using inappropriate language, I find the idea monstruous. What you don't need is to make everyone wary of other people. This would make the air in TC heavier than it already is. 

"Some rules that are necessary because they promote a good atmosphere on the board. It's not necessary to have rules that promote a repressive atmosphere by unnecessarily stifling free speech. We don't want people angrily cussing at each other because that's a hostile atmosphere. If we slap an infraction on someone who is telling a story and says "I didn't pay attention to where I was walking and fell on my ***" that is also a hostile atmosphere IMO"

I couldn't agree more.

We are a community of mixed aged people, not people who live on the moon.

Also you say that the autocensor will bleep words out but anyway people will get sanctioned for using cursing language. Then I don't see the sense of having an automated bleeping system that, the way you implemented, doesn't work anyway.

And how are you going to c-l-a-s-s-i-f-y words like W-T-F or ROFL o LMFAO? 
Please don't say that they are accepted because they are now part of common language. D**N or H**L are even on the dictionary!!!

Are we gonna have to talk in acronyms from now on?


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## tielfan

> But it seems to me that whenever we do do active "staffing", everyone kicks up a stink and complains about the rules and the heavy-handedness. More staff will mean even more active moderation - not sure if many people are keen for that


IMO active moderation (in the sense of sternly cracking down on something) should be limited to cases where someone is actively trying to cause trouble. I think everyone here understands the need for a good atmosphere on the board and the need to prevent behavior that disrupts that atmosphere. Most of the rules here are intended to prevent bad behavior and I don't see people arguing about those rules. What they DO argue about is when the rules are over-enforced and someone gets scolded or infracted because they may have been in technical violation of a rule but had no intention to disrupt the board. As an example that hasn't actually happened yet, someone could get infracted for writing "LMFAO" which is a friendly response meaning "that's funny" but contains two implied swear words. People also complain if they get moderated for violating a rule that doesn't serve a peacekeeping function and exists "because I said so that's why", because it seems like an unnecessary restriction on their freedom of speech.

It's up to the current moderator team to decide whether they need more help. But if they want to avoid complaints about over-moderation, it will be best to seek out people who understand the goal that the rules are meant to serve and are focused on that, and to stay away from people who are enthusiastic about authoritarianism for its own sake and are focused on the letter of the rules not the spirit of the rules.


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## moonchild

I don't think people should be punished for cussing if the cusses automatically censor! That's silly. After all, the end result is the word does not appear, nobody gets offended, and everyone goes on their merry way. H-e-l-l and d-mn are two of the words I consider borderline, so if somebody typed one not knowing it wasn't allowed and it got bleeped, well okay now they know. Also I can type what the eff or wtf and everybody knows it doesn't stand for "fudge"...but I'm not in trouble.

I say fix the auto- censor feature and it will be useful, but don't punish people on top of it!


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## Amz

Bobo, I'm pretty sure that A) Roxy went back and gave you that infraction because it was on a recent, memorable board where people fought or B) the computer system is the one that gives infractions, not the mods, and therefore EVERYONE who had cussed in a post before got an infraction.

The mods aren't out to get you. If they were, you would've been long gone before you had gotten to a thousand posts.


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## ollieandme

Sorry Bobo, my mistake 
There is no way we can convince you that we're *not* out to get you sadly. All i can say is that i am truthfully certain that neither myself, Roxy, or Renae would ever use infractions as a way to revenge and i'm very sad that you think we would.


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## tielfan

> I'm pretty sure that A) Roxy went back and gave you that infraction because it was on a recent, memorable board where people fought or B) the computer system is the one that gives infractions, not the mods, and therefore EVERYONE who had cussed in a post before got an infraction.


I would like to caution everyone about the dangers of speculating and making ***umptions. Unless someone has been leaking information, the moderators are the only people who really know their motives for handing out an infraction. Regarding point (A) a moderator has already stated in this thread that it was NOT because of the anti-breeding thread, see http://talkcockatiels.com/showpost.php?p=758145&postcount=29 . Stating your confidence that it really WAS because of the anti-breeding thread is not a good way to soothe the situation. 

Regarding point (B), we have not been notified that the computer has started handing out infractions without the knowledge of the moderators. It seems unlikely that the moderators would want this to happen, since it would remove their ability to use their own judgment. Making ***umptions without any hard evidence for what happened does not help the moderators, the general members, or the board's reputation.

It's also important to get your facts straight before you make public statements about the motivations and behavior of people involved in a controversy. I went back and looked at the anti-breeding thread at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=74905 to see how much editing the moderators did for cussing. There was one person who got edited for this reason and it wasn't bobobubu. There are no edits at all on bobobubu's posts in that thread. 

There were harsh comments being made by more than one person in that thread so it was appropriate for the moderators to make a call for restraint and politeness. In fact it wouldn't have been inappropriate for them to be a little more forceful on that score, but since the first post was written in an inflammatory style (whether intentionally or not) it was basically an invitation for trouble and it's hard to put ALL the blame on the people who responded to the invitation.


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## Renae

bobobubu said:


> As I said above, it is obvious that you went back one week to "get" me, so if you want to dismiss my posts here making me look like a whining paranoid, please do it, but it doesn't look nice on you


I didn’t go back one week to “get you” at all, in fact, I wasn’t even the one to give you an infraction, so where are you getting that *I* was the one out to get you? (if you didn’t mean me when saying you, it would have been better if you had put it differently) I didn’t realize that you were given an infraction for using that word before the rule even was put into place, that is something you need to talk to Roxy about. By the way, it is also not making it look nice on you putting words into my mouth, I never said anything about you being a whining paranoid, I was trying to re***ure you that you aren’t the only one with an infraction, but hey, maybe I should of not bothered, or not bother at all from now on if it is going to make people ***ume that I am referring them as a whining paranoid whilst only trying to help.


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## bobobubu

Amz said:


> Bobo, I'm pretty sure that A) Roxy went back and gave you that infraction because it was on a recent, memorable board where people fought or B) the computer system is the one that gives infractions, not the mods, and therefore EVERYONE who had cussed in a post before got an infraction.
> 
> The mods aren't out to get you. If they were, you would've been long gone before you had gotten to a thousand posts.


Amz, I am pretty sure that A) you didn't read my post above where I give proof that the infraction was from a post dated 7 days before the breeding discussion happened and had nothing whatsoever to do with that thread
B) the infraction I am talking about was not given by the computer, but by an admin that "happened" to be reading that particular post I wrote.

I gave all facts but if you don't read a thread in its entirety you are bound to make ***umptions based on nothing.


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## bjknight93

Just to clear things up a bit, computers do not issue infractions. I do believe though, that if you build up a certain amount of infraction points, that the system does an automatic ban (though I never actually saw anyone get enough points for this to happen the entire time I was part of the staff).


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## bobobubu

Renae said:


> I didn’t go back one week to “get you” at all, in fact, I wasn’t even the one to give you an infraction, so where are you getting that *I* was the one out to get you? (if you didn’t mean me when saying you, it would have been better if you had put it differently) I didn’t realize that you were given an infraction for using that word before the rule even was put into place, that is something you need to talk to Roxy about. By the way, it is also not making it look nice on you putting words into my mouth, I never said anything about you being a whining paranoid, I was trying to re***ure you that you aren’t the only one with an infraction, but hey, maybe I should of not bothered, or not bother at all from now on if it is going to make people ***ume that I am referring them as a whining paranoid whilst only trying to help.


Renae, my intention was not to accuse you of something YOU did.
In all forums, it's very important that all moderators and admins present a united front , no matter how much they can fight about it in private.
I have never seen a situation like this, not as moderator and not as normal member, where every single admin has views and ideas publicly not conforming to eachother's.
I have no idea what you did and didn't in all this, I just ***umed that as admin you were part in saying oh you know what, she didn't cuss in that thread but surely we can get her in some other way. And with "get" I mean throw me together with other people who cuss at will when they feel like it.
When I said YOU I meant admins in general. 
And when you said "you seem to be a tad worried that admins are out to get you" surely you didn't such words that I am a whining paranoid but the meaning was pretty close to that, no?
I have great respect for you, and what you explained above makes me wonder even more why you are entangled in this pretty messy administration.


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## ollieandme

Only Yung and Roxy are admins. Renae and I are mods. I was aware that Roxy was going to give you an infraction. It's really not worth bashing this situation. You've definitely given us a very clear, blunt, and rude picture of what you think of our moderation. Since you aren't listening to our explanations, than it's not really worth discussing this any further.


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## bjknight93

So since it has been revealed that bobobubu's infraction was issued for a post she made before the new "no-warning" cussing rule was made, wouldn't it make sense to just apologize and then retract the infraction, and issue a warning instead? I feel that would solve at least part of the issue here, and it seems fair for it to be retracted even if it didn't make anyone feel better.


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## tielfan

Or maybe if both sides said "sorry, I went a little overboard" there could be a peaceful settlement. I think it's reasonable to say that both sides HAVE gone overboard. We're all human and stuff like that happens sometimes, but it's not irreparable.


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## Amz

There's no need to blow up on me for stating the obvious. The mods aren't out to get people. There's a reason they're mods. They were chosen for their maturity and ability to keep their cool in ridiculous situations like these.

I don't really care what's going on, in 99% of situations, I side with the mods because they usually have the most believable case. I don't know why, but a lot of people here seem to think they're above the rules and they're shocked when they get in trouble for breaking them.


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## roxy culver

Holy crap I take one day off for my bday and it all goes haywire around here. First off, the infractions were before I figured out how to do the censorship thing. Which I obviously need to fix and will be getting on that immediately. If the ***** are there, what's the point of infracting? I don't really see the need. That was before the censorship thing was suggested to me by the members here. 

But I will be honest, I see no need to cuss in the first place. It makes you look less mature and I have found people don't listen as well when you are cussing. They are more likely to listen when you say something in a clean cut, logical manner than cussing. 

Now I'm off to fix this weird mid-word issue.


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## MeanneyFids

well, infracted before the rule change? before the rule change, it's still in the rules that there is to be no cursing. if you cursed, you cursed. you got an infraction. everyone gets a warning and an infraction, and some people even banned from time to time. things get out of hand. get on with life and accept the consequences like an adult. 

if people were adults in the first place, rules like this wouldnt even have to be made in the whole beginning of things...


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## roxy culver

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=73890
The first post in this thread is the one that was infracted, which yes, was created on 12/6 and was not noticed by the staff until after we had posted the new rule, on 12/14. I did not look at the date that the thread was created because I had not seen said thread til after I had posted this (and it was actually missed by all three of us.) That is on us, but at the same time, the word was used inappropriately, which I did discuss with the OP. If there are issues, please feel free to PM me.


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## tielfan

Here's the post that led to the infraction, so everyone can see the context and judge for themselves: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=73890 The dates may show up differently depending on where you're located, but on my end it says the original post was made on December 6 and it was edited 10 days later by a moderator on Dec 16 with no explanation for the editing. It's a 'talking to oneself' sort of thread testing out some computer code which didn't work. The last line of the first post originally said "not working, d-a-m". Technically not swearing at all but the meaning is clear, in the same way that WTF or effing are used as a substitute for real swear words. It's not the sort of thread that most people would want to read, and the only other person who posts in the thread is Yung (the owner of the board) who replied several hours before the first post was edited by a moderator. If he was disturbed by the language in the thread he doesn't mention it.

Edit: hi roxy, looks like we were doing the same thing at the same time.


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## bjknight93

Well we are all adults in the real world and there are laws, yes? So of course there are always going to be rules, no matter how obvious.

And no one ever received an automatic infraction before for cussing. People received warnings first, and then received infractions for repeated violation. So a warning for something done before this thread? Definitely, but I don't think an infraction is fair without warning for curse words posted before this thread. Obviously my opinion hardly counts, and it is up to staff..but I'm pretty sure other people here see it the same way as me.


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## bobobubu

"that is on us" but you still refuse to act as a fair person.
Nice to know that, whatever you do, you don't feel you have to apologise to anyone or repair the unfair damage you inflicted.
I am done with this thread. I brought my arguments, dates, anything, and still I haven't been taken seriously. Some people are just not brave enough to publicly recognise a mistake when they make one.
Enjoy your power trip and pray god that you will never need to prove your innocence in the future, ever.


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## roxy culver

Bobo you continued to post in said thread with the cuss word in it and didn't remove it yourself after I posted the warning announcement. I PM'd you about the infraction and you NEVER pointed out to me that the dates were off. If you had done so, I could've fixed it before this all got out of hand. Sorry that I had to go eat dinner with my husband. All you had to do was PM me and say "hey these dates are wonky, what's up with this?" and I would've looked into it and fixed it. Obviously, none of my staff or I noticed this issue before we issued the infraction. It was not a personal attack and I'm sorry that you felt it was. I honestly don't have any issues with anyone on this forum and could care less that I'm in charge. Power trip huh? Go watch a 2nd class make first and then you'll see a REAL power trip!


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## Amz

bobobubu said:


> Nice to know that, whatever you do, you don't feel you have to apologise to anyone or repair the unfair damage you inflicted.


Honestly, the same thing could be said for this post. You've done nothing but insult the mods/admin in the entire duration of the thread, rather than trying to work for a solution peacefully, and then storm out as if you've been horribly wronged.

It's also just wrong to insult someone on their birthday. Just sayin'.


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## roxy culver

> It's also just wrong to insult someone on their birthday. Just sayin'.


Haha, yesterday was my bday which is why I wasn't on the forum, but thank you!!!


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## Amz

roxy culver said:


> Haha, yesterday was my bday which is why I wasn't on the forum, but thank you!!!


Doesn't matter, the birthday high doesn't wear off until two days later :lol:


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## bjknight93

I'm quite pleased that bobobubu was able to freely express herself without being infracted or the thread being closed. I think it was nice for once that this happened.


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## Mezza

Wow! I don't know if I should have actually spent time reading this.

I agree cussing isn't acceptable and the admin and mods have to do their job (a great job ). 

I finally got to the post where Bobobubu's original thread was linked and after looking at it I don't understand why the infraction in the first place. I actually said 'WTF' on a thread a couple of days ago...I didn't think anything of it as it was part of my story. Bobobubu's thread was sort of to themself for testing purposes was it not?

Anyway, I am all for infractions where necessary but seriously do we need a massive long thread about it? Which I just sadly added to :blush:


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## tielfan

A big chunk in the middle of the thread was talking about technical difficulties with the censorship function. It's tiresome to get beeped for writing terrible words like 'grass' lol. Some people couldn't even write their name without getting beeped.

There were also comments and questions about the general policy as well as the fairness of a specific case, and I think it's reasonable to ask these questions. The staff has said before that they want a friendly atmosphere on the forum, and the discussion is a form of user feedback about whether it's really an effective strategy to crack down on trivial violations that most people don't actually care about. It's pretty much unavoidable that the attitude of the 'offender' will be permanently damaged by incidents like this, and the attitude of the spectators may be influenced too.

Edit: thanks roxy for fixing the censorship function! I wrote a word in this post that did NOT come out looking like gr***.


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## Mezza

Lol! Gr*** 
That cracked me up. :rofl:


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## tielfan

The bleeping in the middle of innocent words went on long enough for it to stop being funny and start being annoying. When somebody else got bleeped I'd have to stare at the word for a while before I figured out what they said.


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## roxy culver

I took the 18th off for my bday so I didn't know it was going on then. Sorry guys. The whole point of threads like this is so that we can hash things out and figure out new systems of doing things. What I do not appreciate is being accused of being on a power trip but whatever. New day, new start. Its snowing here and I've got a long day ahead of me lol. Try to stay warm out there everyone!!


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## ParrotletsRock

roxy culver said:


> I took the 18th off for my bday so I didn't know it was going on then. Sorry guys. The whole point of threads like this is so that we can hash things out and figure out new systems of doing things. What I do not appreciate is being accused of being on a power trip but whatever. New day, new start. Its snowing here and I've got a long day ahead of me lol. Try to stay warm out there everyone!!


You knew the job was dangerous when you took it!! Lol but seriously modding is a tough , thankless job most times... Your always going to have some one bashing you for something. This censor thingy did get old... I don't cuss on forums for the simple fact that it makes me look trashy (my opinion guys and I'm entitled to it) but I was getting bleeped for simple words... I knew it was just a matter of time before it was fixed... Patience is the key... Now chill out everyone, it's Christmas time.. You know, good cheer, peace towards man and all that other good stuff!!

Oh and btw... Happy birthday!!


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## tielfan

Everybody has their own ideas about what the rules should be. Personally I'm not a big fan of hard-line authoritarianism so I went forum-shopping today. Here's a different sort of swearing policy that I thought was reasonable:


> I just wanted to remind you all that we have a word censor for a reason. We have plenty of younger people on the board, and not swearing simply helps us to look better and be more professional. Swearing also has the potential to insult some members, and we want to make this a community a good one for all bird lovers -- people of all types.
> 
> Avoiding the censor by separating a word, putting something in it, skipping a letter, etc. isn't allowed. It pretty much is swearing -- everyone knows what one is saying when doing this -- and it is obvious that one is purposely trying to avoid our censor on the board, which is on par to breaking a rule as swearing is not allowed.
> 
> Sometimes it is appropriate, such as in a discussion about something related to it in Deep Thinking, but in most posts, please avoid doing this. While it's not something we will warn people or ban people over (unless it gets extremely out of hand), please avoid trying to get over our censor and respect our rules and other members. It is not hard to choose other words -- there are plenty out there that work just as well for what you are trying to say.


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## roxy culver

Just a heads up guys, since we are using the censorship thing, we wont be giving automatic infractions for cussing. Now, if there is an instance where someone is blantantly disrespecting someone and cussing at them regardless of the censorship, that wont be allowed. Also, spacing the words out so they show up and don't get censored wont be allowed either. We're all adults, I'm pretty sure we can find better words to use. Happy posting!!


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## Amz

Is the censoring words in the middle of words thing fixed?

Thanks for clearing up the rules


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## roxy culver

Yes, that was fixed last week. Should not be an issue any longer!

And you're welcome!


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## Lulu-Tiel

tielfan said:


> I would like to caution everyone about the dangers of speculating and making ***umptions. Unless someone has been leaking information, the moderators are the only people who really know their motives for handing out an infraction. Regarding point (A) a moderator has already stated in this thread that it was NOT because of the anti-breeding thread, see http://talkcockatiels.com/showpost.php?p=758145&postcount=29 . Stating your confidence that it really WAS because of the anti-breeding thread is not a good way to soothe the situation.
> 
> Regarding point (B), we have not been notified that the computer has started handing out infractions without the knowledge of the moderators. It seems unlikely that the moderators would want this to happen, since it would remove their ability to use their own judgment. Making ***umptions without any hard evidence for what happened does not help the moderators, the general members, or the board's reputation.
> 
> It's also important to get your facts straight before you make public statements about the motivations and behavior of people involved in a controversy. I went back and looked at the anti-breeding thread at http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=74905 to see how much editing the moderators did for cussing. There was one person who got edited for this reason and it wasn't bobobubu. There are no edits at all on bobobubu's posts in that thread.
> 
> There were harsh comments being made by more than one person in that thread so it was appropriate for the moderators to make a call for restraint and politeness. In fact it wouldn't have been inappropriate for them to be a little more forceful on that score, but since the first post was written in an inflammatory style (whether intentionally or not) it was basically an invitation for trouble and it's hard to put ALL the blame on the people who responded to the invitation.


I am so sorry I ever posted the breeding thread. Several weeks later, somebody is still upset about it. Maybe I'm the one that should be "punished." Apparently I have caused all of this. I really don't think I should post on this forum anymore. It's clear that I've caused too many problems.


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## Peetenomax

It saddens me that you regret posting on an issue of genuine concern.
I hope that you don't withdraw. Please continue posting


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## ParrotletsRock

If everyone is worried about what everyone else thinks , then no one will ever post anything more than cute fluff. Don't get me wrong I like cute fluff... But the controversial things should be able to be posted and discussed calmly and politely without anger, name calling and mud slinging... Everyone has the right to post ligit concerns and not feel bad.


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## roxy culver

> I am so sorry I ever posted the breeding thread. Several weeks later, somebody is still upset about it. Maybe I'm the one that should be "punished." Apparently I have caused all of this. I really don't think I should post on this forum anymore. It's clear that I've caused too many problems.


O honey that's long in the past, no one is still upset over it. Please continue to post, we would miss you terribly if you didn't.


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## MeanneyFids

Lulu-Tiel said:


> I am so sorry I ever posted the breeding thread. Several weeks later, somebody is still upset about it. Maybe I'm the one that should be "punished." Apparently I have caused all of this. I really don't think I should post on this forum anymore. It's clear that I've caused too many problems.


hey, don't you worry none  we want you here. there is no harm in asking questions. you asked a question and you cant predict how other people will react. you didnt do anything wrong, so i dont see why you should leave or be punished. enjoy the forum, you are always welcome


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## Amz

Lulu-Tiel said:


> I am so sorry I ever posted the breeding thread. Several weeks later, somebody is still upset about it. Maybe I'm the one that should be "punished." Apparently I have caused all of this. I really don't think I should post on this forum anymore. It's clear that I've caused too many problems.



I made a thread once asking a question, and it got out of control just like yours did. But I'm still here! Don't feel bad, it really wasn't your fault. Please stay.


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## ollieandme

Oh don't feel bad Lulu! Despite getting a bit fiery, it was an interesting thread 
We love you and your birdie babies  and your input! Don't go


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## Lulu-Tiel

I just can't help but feel as though I've caused a lot of this. I never meant to post a thread that would offend anyone or get anyone's panties in a knot. 

I love this board. I've learned so much and because of that I have the happiest, healthies birds ever lol 

I love that I can come here and admit to my fellow tiel lovers that I sniff Lulu's breath and that I love watching her stick her tongue out. I can't really say that anywhere else.


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## ParrotletsRock

Lulu-Tiel said:


> I just can't help but feel as though I've caused a lot of this. I never meant to post a thread that would offend anyone or get anyone's panties in a knot.
> 
> I love this board. I've learned so much and because of that I have the happiest, healthies birds ever lol
> 
> I love that I can come here and admit to my fellow tiel lovers that I sniff Lulu's breath and that I love watching her stick her tongue out. I can't really say that anywhere else.


The thing is you are entitled to your opinion... As are others... But even if others disagree, they can discuss it is a mature manner... If they don't, then that is their fault.. NOT yours. Forget it and move on ;0) .. It won't be the last time others will disagree with you.


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## Lulu-Tiel

You're right.


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## CaliTiels

ParrotletsRock said:


> It won't be the last time others will disagree with you.


I agree 100% percent. I posted a picture of Jaiden and somebody immediately jumped down my throat. I actually stayed off the forum for a couple of days because I felt like I did something wrong. I came back on to see others comment how adorable and funny the picture was. It made me realize that it was the other person's problem, not mine. I was only trying to make people smile and I did. What would've been ideal was if the other person asked if something was up before stating it was not funny to them at all, but it's ok. It's just people and people sometimes do and say crazy things


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## roxy culver

> I agree 100% percent. I posted a picture of Jaiden and somebody immediately jumped down my throat. I actually stayed off the forum for a couple of days because I felt like I did something wrong. I came back on to see others comment how adorable and funny the picture was. It made me realize that it was the other person's problem, not mine. I was only trying to make people smile and I did. What would've been ideal was if the other person asked if something was up before stating it was not funny to them at all, but it's ok. It's just people and people sometimes do and say crazy things


Definitely! And everyone has different opinions and we have members from all over the world so what's funny on one side of the ocean may not be funny on the other. There's really nothing you can do but brush yourself off and keep chugging along. You wont be able to please everyone and this is the internet, people misinterpret things all the time.


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## Peetenomax

You know what's worst though? Being a thread killer. Ever reply to a post with a stupid comment? Nothing offensive. Just something that you just wish you never posted. And then no one ever posts on it again. You see the view count go up, but no additional replies........
.
.
.
Arrrggggh!


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## ParrotletsRock

Peetenomax said:


> You know what's worst though? Being a thread killer. Ever reply to a post with a stupid comment? Nothing offensive. Just something that you just wish you never posted. And then no one ever posts on it again. You see the view count go up, but no additional replies........
> .
> .
> .
> Arrrggggh!


That ALWAYS happens to me!!..... I'm like whatttttt??


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## bobobubu

Peetenomax said:


> You know what's worst though? Being a thread killer. Ever reply to a post with a stupid comment? Nothing offensive. Just something that you just wish you never posted. And then no one ever posts on it again. You see the view count go up, but no additional replies........
> .
> .
> .
> Arrrggggh!


Lol yes I know that feeling... I guess we all did that sooner or later  

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


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## LaurulCat

*One can only be responsible for one's own actions:*

Lulu, don't take on so much 'responsibility' for what others do and post. Everyone has their own interpretation of what they believe and what they would do about breeding or not breeding. Everyone is responsible for THEIR OWN posts and you are not responsible for some people taking a post and running to extremes with it.

You are responsible for what you do and say; others are responsible for what they do and say. That is the bottom line.


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## MeanneyFids

LaurulCat said:


> Lulu, don't take on so much 'responsibility' for what others do and post. Everyone has their own interpretation of what they believe and what they would do about breeding or not breeding. Everyone is responsible for THEIR OWN posts and you are not responsible for some people taking a post and running to extremes with it.
> 
> You are responsible for what you do and say; others are responsible for what they do and say. That is the bottom line.


you said it all


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