# Sky has had a rough life :(



## patpeplow (Jan 30, 2012)

I originally was looking for a female tiel and i found someone selling one, i went to go check her out and she was not as the ad described, she was a sight for sore eyes, she looked malnourished, one wing had been so badly clipped and one point in her life that he primary flight feather didnt grow back, and upon taking her to the vet he showed me that one of her toes had been broken and healed wrong and her wings had multiple breaks in them rhat had healed  needless to say i just couldnt leave her their. I brought her home and the vet gave me some electrolight drop/antibiotics to give to her for a week, she seemed to perk up but shes an old girl the vet figured around 12 or so. her appetite picked up, i started giving her fruits and veggies she loved taking baths then finally after a month and a bit i introduced her to harley my male cockatiel, and i think it was love at first sight although she cant fly, he would sit on top of her cage and keep an eye on here protecting her, then about 2 weeks later she started laying eggs!!! she laid 5 i cuoldnt believe it. of course she had had no contact with harley i left the eggs for just about a month then took them away. then i noticed some seed in her poop so instantly i was on the net and here looking for a diagnosis and of course PDS is the main one that comes up, so i took her to the vet and he also said that, but i felt it was a very vague diagnosis she jut kind of looked at her poop and checked his book and gave me some critical care food to had feed her and come metacam, and i was also giving her acidopholis mixed into ehr water. her mood didnt really change and not every poop had seed in it and when their was it was maybe 1-2 grains thats it. no she has been on the meds for a week she is showign no other signs of PDS at all, she laid an egg 2 days ago, and this mornign i noticed a little abcess in the corner of ehr mouth almost looks liek a pimple but this was the side was was had feeding her with teh syringe, i will enlcose some pics


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## bassamgaillany (Nov 16, 2012)

I am indeed proud of you. You are so kind. I am just like you. Hopefully you won't get troubles from now on


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

The egg looks good....but I'm not sure about the abcess. It could be related to whatever other health issues are going on with her.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Is it possible that the "abscess" is actually a yeast growth? It looks like she might have yeast on her tongue.

PDS can't be diagnosed with a casual glance. According to http://www.lbah.com/word/proventricular-dilatation-syndrome-pds/ "Other diseases can mimic PDS, so it is important to follow a thorough diagnostic process... Sometimes a biopsy of the crop or proventriculus is needed to confirm the diagnosis... X-rays are a significant aid in making this diagnosis. The chambers of the stomach will show enlargement, which can be outlined with barium." This is an animal hospital website BTW. 

What is her diet like? It is absolutely essential to make sure that she's getting ample calcium and vitamin D if she's laying eggs. The number of old fractures that the vet found suggest that she might be a chronic egglayer who has been calcium deficient for a long time, which weakened her bones. Calcium deficiency is the primary cause of egg binding, so she's at high risk. If she isn't eating a lot of calcium and getting vitamin D one way or another, I'd recommend that you get some liquid calcium for birds ASAP and follow the label directions for breeding birds.

Start using the long nights treatment ASAP to try and shut down the breeding hormones, see http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=32330

If her diet isn't the greatest, do what you can to get some good general nutrition into her in addition to the calcium and vitamin D, see http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=27479


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

P.S. If I understand correctly, Metacam is an anti-inflammatory/painkiller. It's used to treat PDD, but if the real problem isn't PDD then it probably isn't going to help her. Seed in the poop can be caused by several things like a bacterial infection or plain old stress. Has she had any lab tests to check for bacteria or fungus?

If she has a bacterial infection she will need an antibiotic for that. If she has a yeast infection she will need an anti-fungal medication. If it's simple stress then Benebac for birds might help. My newest bird (Priscilla) was fine for the first month that I had her, then suddenly started producing droppings that were mostly seed. She started it sometime on Friday of a holiday weekend, and I didn't notice it until later that night. I couldn't get her into the best avian vet until Tuesday, and she was eating well and not showing any other symptoms so it wasn't an emergency. So I started giving her Benebac and her poop quickly started improving. It was pretty much back to normal by the time I took her to the vet, and the gram stain came back normal. The vet suspects that it might have been caused by the accumulated stress of adjusting to a new home.


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## patpeplow (Jan 30, 2012)

thanks everyone for your responses, her diet consist of seed, pellets, veggies, she has 2 cuttle bones 2 mineral blocks crushed eggs shell, cream of wheat once and awhile, scrambled eggs my tiels are spoiled they get a smorgasboard of food everyday, and i am afraid if i get a biopsy and xrays done it coudl kill her, shes old and i worry about her


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## patpeplow (Jan 30, 2012)

he had given me metacam, critical care, and metoclopramide, sorry what it a gram stain? Ive never had to deal with sick birds before so i am quickly having to learn


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

A gram stain is a test run on droppings to see what kind of bacteria are present. There will always be some bacteria in the poop, it's just a question of what kind and what proportions. Benebac is beneficial bacteria that help to restore a good balance in birds whose gut flora is out of whack.

Metaclopramide is an anti-nausea drug. Its uses include helping humans during chemotherapy, and it's used to treat PDD in birds. 

Avian Critical Care is basically a set of handfeeding formulas from Harrisons (a high-quality bird food company) to deal with some special needs including sick birds. http://www.healthychoicepetproducts.com/categories/Harrison's-Products/Avian-Critical-Care/ It would have provided excellent nutrition during the time she was eating it. You're offering her an excellent diet, and if she's actually eating all these foods then there probably aren't any diet issues to worry about.

However I'm concerned that your vet is treating her for PDD, apparently without running any tests to determine whether she actually has PDD or if some other problem is present. Avian medicine is a specialty, and most pet vets know little or nothing about it. It might be a good idea to look for a vet who is more knowledgeable about birds. 

Some avian vets in BC are listed at http://www.parrotplace.ca/british_comumbia.htm down at the bottom of the page. Two more are listed at http://www.aav.org/search/results.php?filter=province&q=british+columbia&Submit=Search Still more are listed at http://dcoggles.wordpress.com/avian-veterinarians-in-bc/ There are probably some duplications on these lists, and you may find other avian vets if you search for them.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Metaclopramide is actually a motility drug, not an anti-nausea drug. It stimulates muscle contractions in the digestive tract, which keeps its contents moving regularly if the body isn't doing what it should in that sense. So it may have the effect of preventing nausea by regulating GI movement, but it doesn't stop nausea as its primary mechanism.

I second that you really need to have specific lab work done, because there are lots of other causes of seed in the droppings and if there's an infectious process going on untreated, it could get serious very quickly. I would as for gram stain, fecal float/cultures, and possibly bloodwork if the other findings are all normal. My first suspicion would be a bacterial infection of the GI (which should show up on a gram stain, although not always), followed by something fungal like yeast, or even a parasitic infection like giardia. PDD would be absolutely last on the list, after everything else has been ruled out. 

As far as the bump on her face -- Can you take a wet cloth and see if you can loosen it? I agree with tielfan that it could be yeast growth. If it comes off, that would be my suspicion. If it's really under the skin, then that probably is a tiny abscess, which the vet should drain with a needle.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

There's an excellent article on yeast at http://www.justcockatiels.net/yeast-problems-with-babies.html It's aimed at baby birds but some of the information is applicable to adult birds too. Here are some pictures from the article on mouth yeast:


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## patpeplow (Jan 30, 2012)

im pretty sure it is yeast but i was not able to get her to the vet today, is there anything i can give her? i assume its from the stress of me hand feeding her, but i was reading that article and it can get worse and become bacterial? the article was more for babies


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## patpeplow (Jan 30, 2012)

the thing in the corner of her mouth has seem to gotten slightly bigger, im pretty sure its a yeast issue, i read that article but it was mostly for babies, is there anything i can giver her, purchase without a perscription? does anyone have any experience with this?


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## Scribbles (Jun 28, 2012)

She's in a loving home now and that's the most important thing. Hopefully the rest of her life will soon blot out any bad memories she has of her past life.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Bacteria is separate from yeast. If her immune system is weakened she could get a bacterial infection in addition to the yeast, but the yeast doesn't directly lead to bacteria problems. 

She'll need prescription medication to treat the yeast. It's hard to find home remedies to limit the problem until you can get to the vet, but one source recommended garlic powder. This fits well with the recommendations of srtiels, who is VERY experienced with yeast issues in baby cockatiels. Her website at http://www.justcockatiels.net/sour-and-slow-crop-remedies.html gives this recipe for her spice remedy:


> Take a small jar and mix thoroughly the following (any available brand):
> 
> 2 tsp. of garlic powder (not garlic salt)
> 1/2 tsp of cinnamon
> ...


Keep in mind that she's talking about handfed baby birds, not an adult. But it won't do any harm to sprinkle a small amount of this mix on her food, and it might be helpful. I gave some to Priscilla when she was passing seed in the poop. srtiels says this about the spice remedy: 

"This combination of spices will help cut down on the yeast and bacteria by means of inhibiting overgrowth while boosting the immune system, and providing nutritional and supportive care to the digestive tract, body and organs. The spice remedy is designed more as a supportive treatment rather than for any antibacterial or antifungal properties. The dosage is too low to be truly effective as a stand alone antibiotic treatment."


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## birdsoo (Jul 4, 2012)

Those meds are antifungal meds and they need to be prescribed. If you just go and pick up one of the hundreds of meds out there, you would not know how to fix the dosage properly for your bird without a competent avian vet checking the medication and setting the dosage for your bird's weight.

If you called one of the avian vets in those web pages, the ones close to you and that could squeeze you in (or have emergency clinic for birds), you could provide a much safer treatment for your bird. Indeed, avian medicine is an expertise and regular vets tend to know nothing about birds. Most do not admit it either, so they waste your money and your bird's previous time on useless things.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Part two (to avoid having one gigantic "wall of text" post)

srtiels also uses Alka Seltzer, as described at http://www.justcockatiels.net/sour-and-slow-crop-remedies.html She puts 1/2 tablet of Alka Seltzer in 4 ounces of warm water and uses some of it to flush out the crop of babies with crop problems, then feeds 1-2cc of the Alka Seltzer solution to the baby and lets the baby digest it. 

She says "Products such as Alka-Seltzer, baking soda, and vinegar help towards balancing alkaline (sodium bicarbonate and citrate) levels or increasing acidity (acetic acid, vinegar) which tends to inhibit the overgrowth of yeast. "

You obviously shouldn't flush out your hen's crop, and I'm not sure how advisable it is to give her Alka Seltzer. So I wouldn't give it unless you can get advice from someone with more knowledge on the subject. You could put a few drops of vinegar in her drinking water to hopefully slow down the growth of yeast. Apple cider vinegar (ACV) is the kind that's usually recommended, but I don't think it actually matters what kind you use.

When you get to the vet, be sure to tell them about any home remedies that you've used so they can take this into consideration.


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## Bkays22 (Sep 15, 2012)

amazing story! So happy that you got her, shes so pretty! We need more people like you in the world.


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