# is this a good breeding pair?



## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

ok i just got a wf male he looks like this below
im trying to pair him but wonder if he should be paired with a wf like that picture or an albino?which will give me the best wf chicks?is the wf in this pic male or female,i think its male.does anyone have a pic of what a female face features should look like?
I WANT WHITE FUZZIES


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Try to get a hen split to whiteface... 

Also, a whiteface hen would not look like that picture either because that is a male.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

i have a male,he looks like that....what does a female wf look like any pics any one on both a female normal wf and a albino hen ?
and my question is which hen would be best to mate him with normal wf or albino


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

bjknight93 said:


> Try to get a hen split to whiteface...
> 
> Also, a whiteface hen would not look like that picture either because that is a male.



anyone else think the same about that choice of hen?please include photos if you have any cause im really not too familar with the splits what they should look like ,i am new to wf mutations,i knowand breed lutino,pied,pearls .

also i wanna make sure im buying a female chick or adult. any signs to look for the tall tell signs its a female wf?both as a chick and adult?can wf's be wing spot sexed too?
ty all


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## angelmommy24 (Nov 20, 2011)

I'm stepping in as I believe there is no such mutilation called an albino am I correct? I also heard its not good to mate like mutations together do WF to WF but if you got a female split to WF that maybe a better choice maybe someone else can chime in


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

Its a whiteface lutino but many call it albino


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK....if you know any local breeders that know the background or parents of their birds you want a hen *that is split to WF* In using the cage bars to determine size, the male posted does not look like a large bird. Pairing him with another WF mutation will result in poorer quality offspring, that will be smaller than the parents and weak in the nest, thus early loses could result.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

OK because you asked this is what a normal wf hen looks like, BUT I agree with the others, pairing like to like is NOT a good idea at all. I'm suspecting that may be part of the problem I'm having at the moment. It would be best to get a bigger, nice looking hen who is split to WF and pair her with him. Did you keep any of your babies from last year? A girl maybe? If you could post a picture of her cheek patches, we could tell whether she's split, then you wouldn't need to buy another girl.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

so would a female albino(lutino/wf) go good with a male wf splits unknown if any?will post pictures of my new male wf tomorrow.gonna buy a female hopefully tomorrow.but my question is in order to get wf's dont both have to be wf's?if dad is pure wf,mom is an albino what babies will i'd get then?i'd like to get wf babies.lil white fuzzies in the nest


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

roxy culver said:


> OK because you asked this is what a normal wf hen looks like, BUT I agree with the others, pairing like to like is NOT a good idea at all. I'm suspecting that may be part of the problem I'm having at the moment. It would be best to get a bigger, nice looking hen who is split to WF and pair her with him. Did you keep any of your babies from last year? A girl maybe? If you could post a picture of her cheek patches, we could tell whether she's split, then you wouldn't need to buy another girl.




ty for the hen pic what is the white cockatiel beside her?
and no i only have one female "Nana" and shes paired with Cloud right now for over 3 years
btw shes a lutino split pied,or lutino pied either way she looks like a lutino
cloud is pied cinnamon pearl split lutino,always lutino chicks with that pairing

but now i want wf's chicks.


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

Three people have written here their opinion, that you should get a female that is split to whiteface, because pairing two visual whitefaces can lead to problems genetically ( like srtiels said weaker, smaller chicks). It is always better to pair a split with a visual.

No both parents just have to carry the gene, one parent can be split and one visual, or both could be split and you would still get some whiteface offspring. 

Without any other splits all the babies from that pairing will be normal whitefaces with males being split to lutino.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

ive been offered online by breeder all white female with a black eye
what would she be?albino?


or wf chick or albino chick but guys says he sees no wing spots but is uneducated for looking for them:wacko:i put a pic of the baby wf available below


which of these females above would you pick?if you had to


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

She would be a whiteface heavy pied. But the problem is that you're not listening to us! You are attempting to pair 2 whitefaces together which is a big no-no. You're looking to breed your wf male so what you want is a female _*split*_ to whiteface, not a visual whiteface.

You don't want a like to like combination in the nest so you shouldn't breed your male to any of those 3. I would not pick any of those--i would wait until you found a hen who was any mutation and split to wf...a good breeder should know what their chicks are split to.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

there are no females who are split available in ottawa,ont. right now and financilly i have to buy now or dont get it period.now if your all saying no its no to a dream or get one of these choices
thats why i said if you had tochoose what would you choose and thats where if i want onei have to get one of those choices
there hardly any breeders in ottawa and their not breeding right now.sorry i mad you frustrated i thought you all could help me choose between these??????

also the pics of my choices are babies and i was hoping with some ppl being more knowedgable i thought you could tell if these babies were m/f and if they had any splits in them.....


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

You only attached one picture and its really small, it looks like a whiteface cinnamon pied or whiteface pied....cant tell gender from the picture.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

You can't save your money and wait for a split wf to come along? If a breeder has wf then they're eventually going to produce a split wf unless they're doing wf to wf which would make your wf to wf pair up SO much worse of an idea. 

And if you can hardly afford to buy the bird, what will you do if it or any of your other birds get sick?

Also, breeders ship birds now. So just because there are no breeders with split wf in your area doesn't mean you can't get one.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

i attached 1 early in this thread and was told he was a male wf and this small one now
i can try and enlarge them if that helps any?if the last pic i posted is a female 
would that work as a pairing?with it being possibly wf pied,wf cinnamon pied?


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

The first pic you posted is a male whiteface, he is either a visual pearl who has molted out his pearls or he is split to pearl, if you get him check his tail feathers and if any of them have mottling towards the base or the tail( underside) then he is a visual pearl, if they are all solid then he is just split to pearl. Either way he will produce pearl females when bred.

Besides the fact that they are both whitefaces yes that will work as a pairing, but how does the breeder know it is a female?


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

bjknight93 said:


> You can't save your money and wait for a split wf to come along? If a breeder has wf then they're eventually going to produce a split wf unless they're doing wf to wf which would make your wf to wf pair up SO much worse of an idea.
> 
> And if you can hardly afford to buy the bird, what will you do if it or any of your other birds get sick?
> 
> Also, breeders ship birds now. So just because there are no breeders with split wf in your area doesn't mean you can't get one.


i didnt say i couldnt afford it its timing for me not money!!!!and my pet all get vet care..so try not to offend someone else before you say things
like that!!!!!get the whole facts first grrrrr


and as for breeders shipping not everyone has a credit card.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

xoxsarahxox said:


> The first pic you posted is a male whiteface, he is either a visual pearl who has molted out his pearls or he is split to pearl, if you get him check his tail feathers and if any of them have mottling towards the base or the tail( underside) then he is a visual pearl, if they are all solid then he is just split to pearl. Either way he will produce pearl females when bred.
> 
> Besides the fact that they are both whitefaces yes that will work as a pairing, but how does the breeder know it is a female?



thats why i started this thread hoping experience thats here could tell if its m/f 
as im looking for a female wf split now i already have a male now
is there visual cues that tell its female for both m/f
ty for response and help


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

mitch2006 said:


> i didnt say i couldnt afford it its timing for me not money!!!!and my pet all get vet care..so try not to offend someone else before you say things
> like that!!!!!get the whole facts first grrrrr
> 
> 
> and as for breeders shipping not everyone has a credit card.


Please be civil. Those were reasonable questions one should address before purchasing a bird, let alone breeding.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

mitch2006 said:


> financilly i have to buy now or dont get it period.


I thought this meant you only have the money to buy one now..since you said financially. 

I honestly don't understand why you're in such a rush to get your male paired up. The birds you're looking at still have a year to go before they will be ready to breed since i believe you said they were all young. Any cockatiel hen will _work_ with any cockatiel cock...i'm just trying to help you so you'll get optimum/healthy babies in the nest box. Pairing a like-to-like mutation is never a good idea for health/size reasons.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

i think its enlarged the picture














can you tell mle or female by this picture anyone?


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

You cant tell gender by this picture. Do you know how old this bird is?


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Wf cinnamon pied. And no, it's impossible to tell from that picture. If older than 6 months then we _might_ be able to tell by looking at the tail feathers.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

bjknight93 said:


> I thought this meant you only have the money to buy one now..since you said financially.
> 
> I honestly don't understand why you're in such a rush to get your male paired up. The birds you're looking at still have a year to go before they will be ready to breed since i believe you said they were all young. Any cockatiel hen will _work_ with any cockatiel cock...i'm just trying to help you so you'll get optimum/healthy babies in the nest box. Pairing a like-to-like mutation is never a good idea for health/size reasons.



id just like to have a pair set up for next year and i hoping in that year of waiting they will bond thats why im rushing its not exactly financially as worded its time ,availablilty,researching for a quality looking baby,etc,etc.
sorry im alittle frustrated by mutations and starting with anew one is all new again....after just learning my other two pairs mutations it so confusing t6o find all the info needed i just want to fully understand what everyone has to say and rephrasing seams to p.o a lot of ppl unintentionally sorry i juswt want to undrstand which of my choices are best and experience always helps


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

the ad says 14 weeks old no gender said


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

I was browsing the ads in your area to see what the availability of cockatiels is and I came across your ad for Lily, now I hope Im not being too intrusive and if I am please feel free to ignore me but why are you rehoming her? I remember when you got her, and you by the way never updated us on her and squalls babies


At 14 weeks old you might be able to wing spot sex the baby, or possibly tell by behaviour, or by the mutations of the parents of the bird, but you cant tell by tail bars yet.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Would you benefit from playing with the genetic calculator? The only way to get ALL wf babies is to pair 2 wf together but it will result in smaller chicks who can have health issues. The best pairing for your male is to do a split wf with him because you'll still get some white fuzzies in the nest box, as well as some who are split to wf. In the end it is your decision, but the babies would benefit from you finding a split wf rather than a visual.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

with this last baby i hoping its a female cause she(sarah) i believe said it looks split to pied/cinn. or just pied wf,maybe this baby will work for us?


as for Lily she almost killed 2 of her chicks if it wasnt for me saving them they were
stabbing at them and the chicks had blood spots from lily's beak plus she became very mean biting for keeps.so i decided to let Squall just be a pet again.and if someone else wants to try and breed her it would be their choice but for now they have gone back to being pets instead.and shell be sold as a pet and warned as very aggressive breeder should they choose to breed her.


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## angelmommy24 (Nov 20, 2011)

Was this Lilys first clutch? Why would you want to regime her to chance her possibly doing this again? Also you don't need care credit to have a bird shipped first a breeder you like they will ship to you you would pay them for the tiel you like and for the airline ticket also if you are you are unsure of the sex of your tiel or possible future tiel request to have him DNA sexed it costed $25 but you would know for sure as for lily she may be just best as pet try working with her how long have you had her? I couldn't let any of tiels go they are my children and trust me I have 5 children to begin with ranging from 11,8, 2,2,2, plus I just adopted 21 cockatiels and already had 5 cockatiels and I love everyone of them and treat all of them like my children just my option good luck on your search


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> sorry im alittle frustrated by mutations and starting with anew one is all new again


Cockatiel genetics is a tough subject but you'll be better off in the long run if you put in the effort to learn it. You'll know what to expect from a particular pair, and if they surprise you with something unexpected you'll be able to figure out why. It might even indirectly help you accept that breeding two birds with the same visual mutation can cause problems related to inbreeding.



> with this last baby i hoping its a female cause she(sarah) i believe said it looks split to pied/cinn. or just pied wf,


I can't find the place where sarah said this, and maybe I'm misunderstanding what you wrote, but it looks like you're hoping the bird is female because it looks like it's split to pied and cinnamon. Pied splits sometimes have visual signs but cinnamon splits don't. Females can't be split to cinnamon and pied splits have nothing to do with gender. BTW bjknight said the bird was Wf cinnamon pied. This is a good example of how helpful it is to understand genetics: it helps you identify the bird that you're looking at, and if someone gives you information that is wrong or unclear it helps you figure out that there's a problem with what they're telling you.


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

xoxsarahxox said:


> You only attached one picture and its really small, it looks like a whiteface cinnamon pied or whiteface pied....cant tell gender from the picture.



Yea I said the baby looks like a whiteface cinnamon pied, not split to cinnamon Genetics can be super confusing at first, I was reading some of my old threads today and man I knew nothing about mutations when I first joined!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

OK my honest opinion as a small time breeder....I wouldn't breed WF to WF. You need a normal hen split to WF. This means her parents were either WF (one of them) or carrying the WF gene. I asked to see pix of your babies BECAUSE one of your girls may be split to WF then you don't have to go looking. Its obvious that both parents aren't but one parent could be. I wouldn't pick any of those hens you mentioned. I have a WF pair, and even though they had good sized babies their first year with no losses, the last two years have been nothing but chaos and I'm considering splitting them up and repairing them. But that's just my two cents.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

mitch2006 said:


> i think its enlarged the picture
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ok with a baby like this how can you tell if its male or female can it be wing spot sexed?at an age aprox 2-3 ths old?its a wf pied right?


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

xoxsarahxox said:


> At 14 weeks old you might be able to wing spot sex the baby, or possibly tell by behaviour, or by the mutations of the parents of the bird, but you cant tell by tail bars yet.


yes Mitch i posted a few posts back that you can try wing spot sexing on this bird.


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## RexiesMuM (Sep 7, 2011)

I would look for a Cinnamon Pearl female split whiteface , Cinnamons tend to be a bigger bird and it could improve the breed since whiteface cockatiels tend to be small. But if the one in the pic is cinnamon pied it wouldn't be a good idea


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

mitch2006 said:


> ok with a baby like this how can you tell if its male or female can it be wing spot sexed?at an age aprox 2-3 ths old?its a wf pied right?


Since it is a pied, they can't be sexed by looking at wing spots. And it is a wf cinnamon pied.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Please note: The following is not targeted specifically at you, but just my thoughts in general.....

I’ve gone back and read over this thread several times, and have noticed that you have been given some good advice. The first thought that comes to my mind is:_ If you get defensive over advice ask yourself*why*and rather than have hurt feelings. _ *Listen, learn* and do whatever you can with your best interest towards the birds rather than personal gratification.

We have discussed several times on the forum that when breeding it should be the *breeders responsibility* to think towards the future and try to improve the species. 

Sadly, in the real world this is not done. Some concrete evidence of this is that the majority of pet cockatiels available average 70-80 grams in weight. Actually the same size/weight or smaller than when many of the cockatiels mutations that were developed or imported. The species as a whole has not improved in the last 20-30 years. If breeders took the job of breeding seriously, before they even setup the nest box, or took the time to research the mutations, and the best pairings for the birds this change. The impact on the species as a whole, will benefit greatly.

*Why?*….because many that have a pet pair of birds, and even experienced breeders that know better, do not take the time to learn genetics and make the common mistake of pairing 2 birds of the same mutation together. To them it makes sense because they know that they will get babies that look the same as their parents. They never realize that their lack of knowledge has an impact on future generations, such as recessive health issues, recessive genetic faults, higher losses in the nest, etc. Or they pair 2 “pretty” birds together and are dismayed and disappointed that there are only grey babies in the nest.

This link may also be helpful: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=17072

*Who is affected by this? *

The birds as a species. When pairing *‘like to like’* there is no improvement of the species. What ultimately happens is the next generation goes backwards in size and quality, with weaker offspring that can be prone to health issues. It is better to pair a visual bird with a bird that is split to the mutation that you would like your birds to give you in the nest. The birds you posted are nice looking birds, and would best be paired with a bird that is split to WF. And, even though you want WF babies, you can setup a pair that is a visual WF to a split to WF, and the pair will give you some in each clutch.

The bird and the next owner are victims to irresponsible breeding practices. Few beginning breeders don't realize/understand that when you have a small baby that overfeeding will not help it to gain weight. Quite the opposite happens....such as crop/digestive problems....or later in life a bird prone to obesity or liver problems. The next owner may buy a healthy appearing bird that later results in unexpected vet bills. Which could range from chronic health issues, to unthrifty, not fully weaned babies without fully developed immune systems.

Rescues and re-homed birds are result inexperienced and/or irresponsible pet owner breeders. When someone talks about the large amounts of birds in rescue, all breeders in essence are lumped into this category as the cause of the problem. When in reality it is the pet owner that thought it world be ‘fun’ to have some babies. And if they did not get any pretty colors in the nest they would let the birds breed again…and again. Hobby and pet owner breeders tend to far out number experienced responsible/professional breeders.

Ask yourself, do you want to a Responsible Breeder, or part of the Idiot Factor? It is a term that aptly describes a reckless disregard to breeding, when informed otherwise.

Look-up the two words. 

*Idiot:* One who lacks professional knowledge, an unskilled laymen, an ill-informed person 
*Factor:* One that actively contributes to the accomplishment, result, or production process towards a result. **An element contributing to the result of something,


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

Excellent post Susanne! Very informative and very true!!!


Bailey, pieds can be wing spot sexed as long as they have solid coloured feathers close to their body. There are pictures of pied wing spots in the first post of the wing spot sexing thread.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

xoxsarahxox said:


> Excellent post Susanne! Very informative and very true!!!
> 
> 
> Bailey, pieds can be wing spot sexed as long as they have solid coloured feathers close to their body. There are pictures of pied wing spots in the first post of the wing spot sexing thread.


I see..i guess i was just thrown off as i kept seeing Susanne say that pieds don't play by the rules.


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## angelmommy24 (Nov 20, 2011)

srtiels said:


> Please note: The following is not targeted specifically at you, but just my thoughts in general.....
> 
> I’ve gone back and read over this thread several times, and have noticed that you have been given some good advice. The first thought that comes to my mind is:_ If you get defensive over advice ask yourself*why*and rather than have hurt feelings. _ *Listen, learn* and do whatever you can with your best interest towards the birds rather than personal gratification.
> 
> ...


I just ended up with 21 tiels because the person was moving but I know she only had these tiels to breed and honestly as I look at them atleast 6-8 appear to be related I have yet to get them on the scale to weigh them but I'm guessing they average about 78-85 grams and they're all 6 years of age my tiels I've all owned for a year some about 9 month weigh from 89 grams 11 month old male 114 grams my WF lutino and my other 3 all average 90 grams some alittle more I'm working on the 21 I rescued but will be postin pictures to determine the sex of these tiels and will come up with a divider in the aviary so that no more breeding occurres because I just dont know who is and isn't related I can always in the future pair them with unrelated tiels that will strengthen The next generation


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## Dreamcatchers (Apr 17, 2011)

Ultimately, the question that the poster asked was "is this a good breeding pair?"

The answer is NO.

Now, in addition, you are asking about a 14 week old baby to pair up to get babies out of next year? 

You wondered why you had to get rid of the hen you have now for mutilating her babies? Because you are breeding them too young. They are not mature enough to know what to do. 

Without taking the time to read and understand all the things that could go wrong, you are just setting yourself up for a miserable time again.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

Dreamcatchers said:


> Ultimately, the question that the poster asked was "is this a good breeding pair?"
> 
> The answer is NO.
> 
> ...


you know im SERIOUS thinking of not coming HERE any more im tired of being belittled when i ask questions or ppl making uncalled for comments!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all i was trying to do was 1st sex the babies i was showing pictures of....then i was told if i dont have money to buy bird how can you afford vet bills and then i get mad and you all stick together to bash the newbie in your eyes.well ive raised over 30 babies who were quiete healthy babies ask anyone who has one of my babies.ive done emergency 
hatches and emergency umbilical tie offs.and all my babies weigh more then 100 grams when sold
instead i get everyone taking turns to bash me rather then take the time
to know about me or my birdsi thought it was against forums rules to make anyone feel stupid.and it seems llike the mods dont stop this from happening shame on you mods
i've always reccomended this site to my clients but am not going to anymore if this is the way you guys treat ppl trying to learn shame on all you who treat this way
seriously read this thread and feel my pain for asking a simple couple of questions
whats wrong with you ppl?


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

srtiels said:


> Please note: The following is not targeted specifically at you, but just my thoughts in general.....
> 
> I’ve gone back and read over this thread several times, and have noticed that you have been given some good advice. The first thought that comes to my mind is:_ If you get defensive over advice ask yourself*why*and rather than have hurt feelings. _ *Listen, learn* and do whatever you can with your best interest towards the birds rather than personal gratification.
> 
> ...




thank you for those belittling words
i regret ever coming here
SHAME ON YOU SRTIELS


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I re-read your post. You have a WF male. From the pix's he might be split to pearl or a molted out pearl. You want to breed to have WF babies in the nest....and want to know what hen to put him with. If you had/found an albino hen (lutino WF), if the male did not have any splits you would just get grey WF. And not knowing the genetic background of either bird (such as generations of just WF) you could have problems in the nest and early deaths from the pairing. 

Then you posted a pix of a young WF bird. With just the front view of the bird it is difficult to know the mutation exactly. A better pix would be of the back view, and tail feathers. But if a pied and young we could not sex the bird, and as suggested by another forum member it would have to be DNA sexed if you needed to know the sex ASAP.

Aside from the above several members, including myself were trying to impress upon you that rather than look for a visual WF hen to pair with this male, it would be better to pair him with a hen that was split to WF. 

Doing a search of the forum you can type split to WF and come up with several postings that have pix's of what to look for. Below is a pix of what to look for as to recognizing a split to WF on a hen. Quite possibly you might have some hens that may be carrying the split. 

If so the hen could be paired with the WF male and they would give you some WF chicks in the nest. How many? It can vary from 1/4 of the clutch to 1/2 may be WF chicks. Sometimes more, it depends on how the genes work together.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

But Mitch you haven't paid attention to anything we have posted...I as a mod am very frustrated with you. Sorry to say but we told you that breeding like to like is bad. Which means, find another hen, and then ask about her. We're not being mean, we're trying to keep you from getting dead babies. I haven't had a single baby make it in two yrs and trust me on this, it is heart breaking.


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## delawaregirl (Dec 2, 2011)

Mitch--I am so sorry that you are getting frustrated with responces. People can only respond to what you write and do not know anything else about you but from a relatively new person to the forum I have learned that at times it may seem or feel that people's responces are harsh BUT I can assure you that they do not mean to be. Many of the responces from experienced breeders/lovers of tiels are done for one purpose only. They love their birds and want the best for your birds. Sometimes we just want someone to agree with us even if it is not the best thing but people here only want what is best for your birds. By your comments you opened yourself up to getting the comments you did. If you only wanted to know the sex of the bird/birds you posted it would have been best if that was the only question or comment. When you started saying you needed the answer for breeding purposes you opened yourself to the comments you got. Please do not take my comments the wrong way--I am not judging, only trying to help you see what was happening from a different way. No one wants you to leave the forum. No one wants you to be angry. No one is judging your past breeding. Moderators are only wanting to help you to continue to have healthy birds.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

mitch2006 said:


> thank you for those belittling words
> i regret ever coming here
> SHAME ON YOU SRTIELS


Did you read where she said "this is not directed at you?" People will use this thread as reference material when they do searches on our forum. Srtiels post was to help you out, as well as others who are reading this thread. No one is trying to offend you, though there was a poster that could've been a bit nicer about her knowledge/opinion.

No one wants you to leave the forum either...we are all just trying to help and are a bit frustrated that you don't actually consider the info worthy enough that you would go and search for a split wf hen rather than do a like to like combination that can be fatal to the babies or give them health problems, and all that trouble because you want to see white fuzzies in the nest. Getting a split wf hen will give you healthier, bigger babies with a lower fatality rate and will give you a good amount of white fuzzies.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

ok im starting to understand some of what was said here after re reading all this thread
now i bought two wf males ,what should be paired with these to get big babies 
:blush:i know split to wf female but what exactly would be best pairing mutation lutino,pied,pearl or normal grey ....with your past breeding pairs experiences.
SORRY all for my frustration earlier:blush:


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

mitch2006 said:


> ok im starting to understand some of what was said here after re reading all this thread
> now i bought two wf males ,what should be paired with these to get big babies
> :blush:i know wf split female but what exactly would be best pairing mutation split with a lutino,pied,pearl or normal grey ....with your past breeding pairs experiences.just want good feathering and colors and strong crest on babies
> i was thinking a wf pearl or wf pied female or would you pair with a wf lutino female?
> ...


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

a little off topic but how does one get to be a moderator here whats the process?
i'd love to be one


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

im trying real hard to pick a perfect pair can anyone help with showing some pictures of wf female babies or young variaties so we can indentify them when buying one.Roxy i believe you own a few wf split females would you have any pictures you could share with us?
thank you all


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## angelmommy24 (Nov 20, 2011)

I believe striels and roxy both shared a photo for you to see. Any breeder would also be knowledgable as to mutations/splits the baby is any sure 100% way of know the sex is doing the DNA testing and it only costs about $30 look for a hen split to WF but always remember the most important thing I know you just got your male quarantine them individually in separate rooms away from all your other birds for 30 days my advice if you find a hen or two you like take some pictures post them on here you don't have to rush out to buy her if she ends up being a good pair for your male have her DNA sexed... Just my opinion best of luck


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

OK some pictures of the males you purchased would be nice so we could see what splits they carry to tell you what would be best to pair them with. If they're split pied, a pied split wf hen would be a great idea (and give some really awesome crests!)


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## Mentha (Jul 11, 2010)

If I remember right, cinnamons usually have larger babies. A cinnamon split wf would be good if you want larger birds or a very large normal split wf hen would be nice too. Don't try and throw too many mutations in before you know what your males are carrying. You can always swap you hens if you don't get what you want. You have plenty of time before your males are ready to breed to find a suitable female and believe me, it will be worth it. What I would suggest is get a normal female and breed it to one of the males, then next year take a daughter of the two and breed it to the other male, you should have a healthy unrelated split to wf hen out of the first clutch to breed to the second male with a 50% chance of wf for both genders of offspring from the second breeding. 

Throw out the idea of breeding wf to wf or lutino wf, it really is a bad idea, and speaking from experience it is not a good way to have healthy babies. You can not imagine the heartache of losing baby after baby because of poor genetics and having to throw the wrench in your breeding program more than once because babies were too small or just plain sickly and then losing all your babies despite your best efforts. You do not want to be an irresponsible breeder and breeding like to like is irresponsible. We can all learn from the mistakes of others and please heed the suggestions made to you, you will have healthier babies and happier clientele because of it.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

ok im got lots of different angles of pics for these boys
first is Frosty and second will be the un-named baby....any name suggestions on second boy welcomed

Here is Frosty




































































now the un-named boy










































































so here are their photos what do you think their splits might be?if any....
ty all


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

now another question looking at the un-named baby who is aprox 3 months old
it has one or 2 tail feathers that have barring is it male or female?
i think male but wanted to see what you guys think....
also Frosty is 3 years old.
ty once again all for your input.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

mitch2006 said:


> a little off topic but how does one get to be a moderator here whats the process?
> i'd love to be one



Does anyone know this answer to this question also?
ty


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## angelmommy24 (Nov 20, 2011)

Beautiful birds I can't tell does the first bird have a white face if so looks like a WF grey possibly split to pied?? Male in my option 2 nd bird WF pied if he has solid tail feather would be a male maybe to young to tell


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

OK, Frosty looks to be a WF split pearl (ghost pearling on his back) and the unnamed one looks to be a WF pied. Now pieds will keep barred tail feathers for way longer than any other gender so that's not a good way to sex them. IF that's boy, it would be great to pair up with a lutino split WF hen (you would get boys split to lutino and could use them for the next generation.)


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

The adult male looks like a Whiteface Cinnamon Pearl....I can't tell if he is also split to pied. The baby is too young to sex, and even if a male the tail barring will molt out and back in with barring for a couple of years. To me the baby looks like a 'Patches'


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*Does anyone know this answer to this question also?
ty *
---------------------------------

Alot of it has to do with experience and what you have contributed to the forum. We each have our strong points. I am *not* a people person, but good with breeding, mutation and health issues. Most of the other mods are also good in this area, but they have better people skills. In addition to this we have to spend alot of time reading all the posts, whether we respond or not. Also monitoring all threads and deleting if any spam is posted before anyone sees it.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

srtiels said:


> The adult male looks like a Whiteface Cinnamon Pearl....I can't tell if he is also split to pied. The baby is too young to sex, and even if a male the tail barring will molt out and back in with barring for a couple of years. To me the baby looks like a 'Patches'



the older male feet are pink,most pieds have blackning on them if pied ,right?
what would indicate his split pied other then feet with a wf?

what is "patches"?please explain what you meant by patches.

what mutation would you suggest for these after seeing their pics for nice sized crest and babies?

ty srtiels


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

She meant "Patches" would be a good name for the unnamed baby. 

Pink and black toe nails (a mix of both) indicate split to pied. I didn't see any tick marks on the back of the head so I wasn't sure. For Frosty, a normal hen split to WF would be excellent, all pearls you would get would be girls (on top of any surprises he's hiding). And I already told you what I thought would be good with the unnamed one.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

srtiels said:


> *Does anyone know this answer to this question also?
> ty *
> ---------------------------------
> 
> Alot of it has to do with experience and what you have contributed to the forum. We each have our strong points. I am *not* a people person, but good with breeding, mutation and health issues. Most of the other mods are also good in this area, but they have better people skills. In addition to this we have to spend alot of time reading all the posts, whether we respond or not. Also monitoring all threads and deleting if any spam is posted before anyone sees it.


how long do i have to be here to be able to be a moderator?
i'm really interested ... i know i can do it if given a chance.:blush:
and i'm always looking over ppl posts i've looked at every post you have ever wrote here or posted on other ppl's post your awesome i hope you realize that
the only thing i'm not good at is genetics ,but am learning through looking at all post in the genetic section,and with much patience from some ppl here also?as i believe everyone should learn something new each day
ty for your help all


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

roxy culver said:


> OK, Frosty looks to be a WF split pearl (ghost pearling on his back) and the unnamed one looks to be a WF pied. Now pieds will keep barred tail feathers for way longer than any other gender so that's not a good way to sex them. IF that's boy, it would be great to pair up with a lutino split WF hen (you would get boys split to lutino and could use them for the next generation.)



thats great info thanks Roxy
i thought wing spot sexing was best done between 3-4 mths old?but i think srtiels just said it was too early to sex him?


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> how long do i have to be here to be able to be a moderator?
> i'm really interested ... i know i can do it if given a chance.
> and i'm always looking over ppl posts i've looked at every post you have ever wrote here or posted on other ppl's post your awesome i hope you realize that
> the only thing i'm not good at is genetics ,but am learning through looking at all post in the genetic section,and with much patience from some ppl here also?as i believe everyone should learn something new each day
> ty for your help all


There is no certain amount of time that you have to be on here to be a mod, its more of how much you help out people and who notice you helping. Plus, consistent participation, we don't want someone as a mod who is only here when they have issues or questions, we want someone who is on consistently to help out. At the moment, we are full up on mods though, so we're not looking at add anymore. But thanks for asking!


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

roxy culver said:


> There is no certain amount of time that you have to be on here to be a mod, its more of how much you help out people and who notice you helping. Plus, consistent participation, we don't want someone as a mod who is only here when they have issues or questions, we want someone who is on consistently to help out. At the moment, we are full up on mods though, so we're not looking at add anymore. But thanks for asking!


thanks for answering this question i knew i didn't have a shot anyways but figured i ask...:blush:


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

so back to the topic does any one have any name suggestions from the un-named one?


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

mitch2006 said:


> thats great info thanks Roxy
> i thought wing spot sexing was best done between 3-4 mths old?but i think srtiels just said it was too early to sex him?



i didn't want this question lost in the above questions so i re-quoted it


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes....you can check the wing sexing now to get an idea of sex. Keep in mind it is not a 100% way of sexing, but has worked fairly accurately for me. As to just looking at him as is it is too early to visually sex from the pix's posted.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

srtiels said:


> Yes....you can check the wing sexing now to get an idea of sex. Keep in mind it is not a 100% way of sexing, but has worked fairly accurately for me. As to just looking at him as is it is too early to visually sex from the pix's posted.



oooo,ok now i see what you meant
is 3-4 mths the best ages to wing sex them?
what about adults they can be done at any age,right?
ty


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

what about the "patches comment" please add what you meant by that?im unfamilar with that reference or term?srtiels


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> what about the "patches comment" please add what you meant by that?im unfamilar with that reference or term?srtiels


She meant it as a name suggestion, I said that already.

You can wing spot sex now, its best done on younger babies because older ones will molt out the spots.


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

roxy culver said:


> She meant it as a name suggestion, I said that already.
> 
> You can wing spot sex now, its best done on younger babies because older ones will molt out the spots.


sorry that must have got lost in the questions roxy
cute suggestion srtiels unisex also


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## mitch2006 (Jan 15, 2011)

angelmommy24 asked earlier on page 6 aprox if frosty had a wf 
yes he does, its white on the face with his back of head grey only and body being light grey with ghost pearls on his back and 2 or 3 grey streaks in crest and pink feet.


also i just wing spot checked Patches and its a boy!!!no spots near body on wing.


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