# territorial behaviour in a pair?



## emaggied (Sep 18, 2017)

I've kept budgies for years, and we "upgraded" to two 10 week cockatiels four months ago. They are from the same breeder, aviary bred, different genes. I think we have one male and one female, but, it's still too early to tell.

They are slowly becoming more tame - taking food from hands and occasionally stepping up, not on command yet, but, making steady progress. They are starting mimic whistles and pay us attention - but, they don't yet looked thrilled to see me (despite the consistent bribery)

In the last month they have stopped sitting together and preening each other. There is a lot of wing flapping at each other, and Slap hangs upside down on the perch spreading his wings and tail. I googled that, and it said that was territorial. 

I'd not say that the birds behave as if they are bonded - they get on together about 80% of the time, but, it looks more like they tolerate each other rather than being attached. The remaining 20% is aggressive flapping and pecking. They sleep on separate perches.

Yesterday was a disaster, and this is what I'm asking for help with.

I went to clean their cage. It has wire grid base and was covered in grass and leaves (they like to shred greenery). The cage is a large parrot cage, plenty of room for them both - but, when Iopened the door Slap dashed out. They aren't out the cage yet, i did try initially, but, getting them back in without stepping up was counterproductive.

He flew straight into the window, wasn't hurt, but, was shaken.

I got a towel to put him back in the cage, by which time Rosie had also escaped and was stuck behind the settee. Both birds were easily caught in towels and I covered the cage up to give them quiet time.

Today they are more wary of me, but, eating greens from my hand. However, they are definitely pecking each other and competing for perches/food/toys.

My concern is that, actually, the birds are not getting on together and that's why Slap made a bid for freedom. He's never done that before, and it happened so quickly it took me totally by surprise. I know it's not ideal to have them caged for so long - but, I can't see how to get them tame when I have to spend 40 mins chasing them around to get them back in the cage!

I do have a spare cage, it's smaller than the huge on they are in, but, it says it's suitable for 2 cockatiels - certainly, there is plenty space for a single bird to spread wings in.

Would it be worth splitting them up? The cages could be next to each other.

I'm worried that it's taking so long to get them hand tame that their quality of life is affected. My super tame wee budgie was out the cage all the time that we were home, I'm not sure how to keep them exercised and happy if I can't get them back in without them being perch trained!

All advice gratefully received. We love these wee birds.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

It is easier to tame them one on one then together. So separate cages may work. And you can take one bird into another room to work with them separately. I have found bathrooms a good room to start in because it's small enough that chasing really isn't a thing.


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## emaggied (Sep 18, 2017)

Thanks, Roxy. The breeder had said that if one of them got the hang of it that the other would catch up, but, it's definitely been one step forward and another one back.

It's better for them to have company, but, I'm beginning to think we've made a mistake. They are lovely wee birds individual, but, I guess they just don't like each other that much.

We'll set up the spare cage tomorrow and see how it goes. Fingers crossed.
thanks


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

I would suggest getting their wings clipped. It doesn't have to be permanent, you can let the feathers grow out later if you want to. Clipping will make it a lot easier to take them out of the cage and handle them, and greatly reduce the risk of a bird getting hurt or killed because it crashed into something. I know that a lot of people are opposed to clipping, but IMO it's an important safety measure for birds in a new home. It lets them come out of the cage and learn the details of their new environment without great bodily harm.

Your birds will form a flock bond with each other no matter what, and won't want to be too far apart from each other. But they won't necessarily like each other very much and may skirmish if they get too close together. This is OK as long as they're in a big cage where they have room to get away from each other, or if they have separate cages.


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## emaggied (Sep 18, 2017)

Thanks, Tiel. I have read about wing clipping - and, it does make me uncomfortable! But, then, so does having two birds flapping about getting upset because I can't get them back in the cage. And, yes, it'd only be until they moulted.

There's been much less squabbling today. No idea why, nothing has changed in the cage. 

Wing clipping - is that a vet job, or, something I can ask the breeder to do?


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## emaggied (Sep 18, 2017)

Their cage is sold for two birds, and it is pretty big. There is one up, though, and I'm open to upgrading, there's plenty space in the room.

I'll set up the other cage next to them and see what happens for a month. They'll be together, but, have their own space.

Still can't let them out, and I can't decide whether Slap was wanting to escape Rosie, or just desperate to move. 

Poor wee birds, they need to get some exercise, it's been 10 weeks, and I absolutely need to clean that cage!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

The breeder probably knows how to do wing clipping. A little bit of knowledge and some bird-handling skills are needed to do it correctly, but many people with birdkeeping experience know how it's done. But there are also people who cut too many feathers, which makes the bird crash like a stone every time it tries to fly. Here's a link about the process so you can talk to the breeder about it in advance to make sure they're going to do it the way you want. You can even do it yourself if you feel confident enough.

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=682


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## emaggied (Sep 18, 2017)

So, once the wings are clipped - how do you persuade the bird that it can rely on you and you are not scary?

It won't encourage them to step up, will it?

Will it help reduce the flapping in the cage? My daughter's going to set up the other cage today, fingers crossed that helps.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Birds will flap and "bat bird" to declare something is their's, so that's normal. Flapping is also good exercise. But no, it won't encourage them to step up. You have to continue working with them. Food bribery is a good way to tame birds. It's just going to take time.


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## emaggied (Sep 18, 2017)

That's fine. I wonder if they need more space - the cage is big, but, we'll split them into separate cages tomorrow and see what that does over a month. There's room for the two cages to be next to each other. 

Fingers crossed!

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it.


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## emaggied (Sep 18, 2017)

No real progress with these birds. They hated being in separate cages, and are now happier together, so, I guess that's something!

Keeping on keeping on.


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## emaggied (Sep 18, 2017)

Making progress!

We split them up for a couple of weeks, and, surprisingly, they were miserable. They sat as close to each other as they could in the separate cages (which were touching). So, I put them back together two weeks ago, they are preening each other and much friendlier!

They are more confident eating from hands and just starting to tentatively step up in the cage on a finger - are scared by perches.

Letting them out is still a trial - I've had to towel them to get them back in. But, on Monday, I let them out all day and fed them millet (on the top of my curtains, ugh) with a perch in my hand. Bit of flapping (the curtains are not very stable for them to sit on) and they flew around and landed on the perch half a dozen times - they got a bit of millet each time.

I couldn't get them in, so left them out all night, roosting on my curtains. In the morning I put millet on top of the cage and in the cage - and in they popped. 

So, I think they are getting there. I certainly feel more positive, and have a more realistic time frame of how long this is going to take. They are, after all, only babies.

Aiming for stepping up in a month or so. Hope so!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

That is great progress!! As long as you take it at their pace it will go smoothly.


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## emaggied (Sep 18, 2017)

Indeed.

They are getting on so well that Rosie (we thought she was a girl) is mounting Slap (we thought he was a boy).

Uh oh.

As long as I don't give them a nest box there won't be eggs, is that right? They were sold as 10 week old chicks - so, that would make them 5 months. am assuming they are actually older and that's why it's been such a struggle to tame them - that and the bonking. 

Really don't want to be breeding birds!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Actually, they will lay if they are hormonal enough. Tiels can start puberty as early as 3 months so they very well can be 5 months old and mounting each other. If they are related it is not recommended at all to let them breed. I would start them on hormone control immediately. See the sticky here: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=32330


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