# Hasn't Molted



## MyCricket (Aug 11, 2011)

Hello all, 
I bought my first cockatiel in August and he was 4-5 months old and he hasn't molted in all the time that I've had him. I am estimating he is a little over a year old now, should I be worried? He eats a normal diet (although he refuses to try anything other than his birdseed and Cheerios) and is very active and vocal. Also, what should I be looking for when he starts to molt?

Thank you!


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## delawaregirl (Dec 2, 2011)

I was like you wondering what to look for when my tiel would start to molt. You can't miss it!! Tweety started by loosing a few feathers and then she started loosing more and more. One day she probably had 30 or more small fuzzy feathers in her cage. She has just about finished now because I am not seeing more than a couple a day. Also her wing feathers were clipped and they have started to grown in. When she trys to fly she now gets a little more height and can go further.


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## MyCricket (Aug 11, 2011)

I had Cricket's wings clipped but they have since grown back and he flies all around my room now like a maniac. I need to clip them again. Occasionally I will see a tail feather on the bottom of his cage but that's about it. Little white fluffy feathers float around when he is grooming but it not too excessive.


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

If his wings already grew in he most likely molted then...usually the flights will begin growing in and the full molt follows. That's how my birds are anyway..


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## DesertDweller (Oct 8, 2011)

A concern would not be that a bird doesn't molt. You may simply have missed it. And, judging by what you said about the flight feathers regrowing, I suspect you missed recognizing the molt.

On the contrary, a medical concern is when a bird is 'stuck in a molt', that is, when the bird molts and keeps molting. That is a definite health problem.

When I started working at Petsmart, I noticed that the birds were not well. On my own, I took steps to improve their conditions. I ordered a different brand of seed mix, improved the ventilation in their flight cages, and I made a huge salad with lots of variety and gave it to the birds daily.

One little bird, a Red Bishop finch, was stuck in a molt. I had one at home who started molting when the store bird did. My bird finished his molt in a couple of weeks, but the store bird looked shabby for 2 months until I was able to do my thing with the birds. After getting the proper nutrition, the store bird finally completed his molt.

So, I would not worry about a bird not molting. I'd worry if he started molting and didn't complete it.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Is there a general time frame for how long a mold should last? (It seems like my tiel has been molting for quite awhile now.)


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## delawaregirl (Dec 2, 2011)

From what I undestand it can last from 6-8 weeks. The tail feathers are generally the last to molt.


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## DesertDweller (Oct 8, 2011)

sunnysmom said:


> Is there a general time frame for how long a mold should last? (It seems like my tiel has been molting for quite awhile now.)


It can take up to 10 weeks or longer, depending on the individual bird and strongly depending on the bird's health. It's very important for a bird to have adequate exercise and good nutrition. The healthier the bird, the shorter the molt, generally. In a healthy bird, the shedding of feathers during molt should not noticeably affect the bird's appearance, except for birds who are changing colors. 

For example, Misty is a lutino whitefaced and recently went through his first molt. I didn't really notice at first, but his wing feathers now are pale cinnamon, which occurs in male lutino whitefaced who have cinnamon in their lineage. Although I noticed feathers on the cage floor and everywhere else, you couldn't tell by looking at Misty that he was even molting. My sun conure has a full 'coat' of feathers and simply appears to be getting more red and yellow on his head and wings. There's no lack of feathers on my birds even though they're molting, and that's how it should be.

I also wanted to mention that I've never experienced a grumpiness or lethargy in any bird of mine that was molting. Their personalities never changed, nor did their activity level. That's because they have an excellent diet - and I don't use supplements.


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## MyCricket (Aug 11, 2011)

One more question, I heard that before cockatiels (more males than females) molt, they usually have white speckles in their feathers around the back of their head and neck. Cricket still has a lot of speckles, does that mean he's a girl or he hasn't molted yet?


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I'm not sure what you're asking? Is Cricket a pearl cockatiel? The only "speckles" that would be on a cockatiel's head and neck is if it were a pearl or if it had the white/yellow "tick marks" indicating a split to pied. If Cricket is a pearl and kept the pearls after molting then Cricket is a female.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

DesertDweller said:


> The healthier the bird, the shorter the molt, generally. In a healthy bird, the shedding of feathers during molt should not noticeably affect the bird's appearance, except for birds who are changing colors.


Do you have a source for this? I've seen you say it several times before, but in all the reading I've done on diet and feather quality, I've never come across anything like this. Molting is an individual thing. Yes, diet can impact it. But some birds will still molt more quickly or more heavily or look scruffier than other birds, regardless of diet.




> I also wanted to mention that I've never experienced a grumpiness or lethargy in any bird of mine that was molting. Their personalities never changed, nor did their activity level. That's because they have an excellent diet - and I don't use supplements.


I also _really_ don't think you can attribute this solely to diet. Some birds are going to be more sensitive than others. Even on the best diet in the world, growing in a lot of feathers at once is going to be uncomfortable, and in some birds this is going to cause crankiness or lethargy or whatever may be characteristic for that individual.


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## DesertDweller (Oct 8, 2011)

enigma731 said:


> Do you have a source for this? I've seen you say it several times before, but in all the reading I've done on diet and feather quality, I've never come across anything like this. Molting is an individual thing. Yes, diet can impact it. But some birds will still molt more quickly or more heavily or look scruffier than other birds, regardless of diet.
> 
> I also _really_ don't think you can attribute this solely to diet. Some birds are going to be more sensitive than others. Even on the best diet in the world, growing in a lot of feathers at once is going to be uncomfortable, and in some birds this is going to cause crankiness or lethargy or whatever may be characteristic for that individual.



I have some clinical references, one of which is the book 'Clinical Avian Medicine and Surgery' by Harrison and Harrison, ISBN number 0-7216-1241-5, which has some good info on molting. It even states that Amazon parrots appear to molt continually during the year.

Yes, molting is an individual thing and is dependent on species. Molting may increase the bird's metabolic rate by up to 30 percent, which could place additional stress on the bird's immune system.

Some species molt only once per year. Some molt twice a year, like the Orange Weaver Finch, aka: Red Bishop, which I owned, as well as cared for at the store. Like I had said before, my bird, Tommy, went through his molt with no change in disposition and no lack of plumage. The store bird, on the other hand, was lethargic, shabby-looking and took way too long to complete his molt until his diet was improved. Tommy went from the mousy brown off-season plumage to the brilliant black and red nuptial plumage in a very short time while the other bird took months.

I have extensive experience caring for birds of numerous species, among which are: budgies, amazon parrots, macaws, 1 cockatiel, 1 conure, canaries, house sparrows, house finches, starlings, and a variety of finch species. And, that does not include any of the birds that were for sale at the pet store. I never took care of african greys or cockatoos. I only had 1 bird get grumpy, and that was a sparrow. I learned that his grumpiness came from my youthful ignorant feeding him hot cheetos, not from his molting. None of my birds ever showed any change in disposition during molts.

My birds are fed a nutritious diet every day. They receive both privately-packaged seed mix (I used to travel 130 miles every month to get it) and treat mixes that contain pelleted food. They also receive a salad that contains dark green leafy veggies, red-leafed veggies, squash, radishes, carrots, broccoli, kale, mustard greens, turnip greens, and a different fruit each week (usually apple, mango, or papaya). They also receive Bird Street Bistro cooked mixes daily. They get millet, my soft-bills get mealworms and suet, and I also give them a little snack of LaFeber's baby bird formula every few days, because they absolutely love it and because it's a good nutritional supplement. Once in a while I'll give them whole grain bread that is flourless and additive-free.

I just wanted to respond to your comment about birds molting more quickly or more heavily or looking scruffy regardless of diet. I refer to what I had written about the Red Bishops. If ever there were a case to demonstrate the impact of diet on molting, in my opinion, that one is an excellent example. And, as I listed above, the Red Bishops were not the only birds I have observed. 

And, finally, it's not just diet that affects molting - as important a role that diet plays in the process. Exercise strongly affects molting as well as temperament. A bird that gets inadequate exercise will have his cardiovascular system adversely affected. Cardiovascular health plays a huge role in metabolism and cell development in general. In addition, an inadequately exercised bird will not have proper skeletal and muscular development. And waste products will not be efficiently eliminated from the body, which will show up as kidney and liver problems in the older bird.

Mental stimulation is also important to the bird. Studies in human children have shown how insufficient mental and emotional stimulation can predispose a child to languishing. Too many pet birds are not given enough opportunity to exercise, and as the plight of Indian Ringneck Parakeets demonstrates, pet birds are too often under-socialized and are left to languish in their cages for long periods of time.


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## Charlie292 (Feb 1, 2012)

Interesting thread. I have two birds moulting currently. Could I ask you to share what you feed your birds please desert dweller? I'm always trying to develop my birds diet.


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## Charlie292 (Feb 1, 2012)

Sorry, I hadn't seen your post as I wrote mine


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## Cryren8972 (Oct 3, 2007)

To sort of add to what Desert Dweller was saying...birds use an enormous amount of choline while in a molt. It's used to produce feathers. Without this, the molt is indeed longer due to not having the choline to use to produce these feathers. When I notice my birds molting, I simply add an extra boiled egg a week to the full aviary's diet. This helps with feather production, and yes, shortens the molt for the cockatiels. I've observed it myself time and time again. Without the egg, or egg food, the molt takes quite a bit longer than with it. I suspect that the seed/treat mix that Desert Dweller is feeding to his/her birds (sorry, not sure...lol) contains a substantial amount of choline, or maybe the Lafebers. 

So...the short of it is, diet does have something to do with it. However, it's just a simple addition of choline during molt that will increase health and decrease molt time.


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## Cryren8972 (Oct 3, 2007)

Oh, and I have also found that birds, even the ones that are unwilling to switch diet, will eat an egg during molt. They know they need it. I can also give some tips on getting your birds to eat a variety of foods, if you're interested. =)


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## delawaregirl (Dec 2, 2011)

Interesting comments on diet and molting. I don't think that Tweety's molt took 10 weeks but I didn't time it. She is fed a good diet and gets egg once or twice a week. From what I have read I thought that it mentioned to add protein during molt so there could be something to diet and molting.


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## DesertDweller (Oct 8, 2011)

Good points made. Yes, I forgot to mention that I add egg once in a while. And, I wash and finely crush the shell, mix it in to the raw egg, scramble it up real good and microwave it for about 30 to 34 seconds, depending on the size egg and the microwave power. Too much egg is not good, but a couple times a week is fine. From what I've learned, the calcium easiest to digest is calcium carbonate, which is what egg shells are made of. I prefer natural egg shells to powdered or liquid calcium because it hadn't been put through an artificial process, nor has it been added to. Powdered calcium is usually enriched with vitamin D and vitamin C, which are necessary for proper calcium absorption, but a healthy diet should provide these things. Sunlight stimulates the production of vitamin D in the skin. Vitamin D is currently classified as a hormone because it is produced in one organ (the skin) and used in other organs of the body.


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## Cryren8972 (Oct 3, 2007)

Watch the microwave, it can greatly change the composition of the food that you're microwaving. =) Powdered egg shells are a wonderful form of calcium...and you can order crushed egg shell if you want to provide it this way. Cuttle bone and kale has always worked well for me.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> Good points made. Yes, I forgot to mention that I add egg once in a while. And, I wash and finely crush the shell, mix it in to the raw egg, scramble it up real good and microwave it for about 30 to 34 seconds, depending on the size egg and the microwave power. Too much egg is not good, but a couple times a week is fine. From what I've learned, the calcium easiest to digest is calcium carbonate, which is what egg shells are made of. I prefer natural egg shells to powdered or liquid calcium because it hadn't been put through an artificial process, nor has it been added to. Powdered calcium is usually enriched with vitamin D and vitamin C, which are necessary for proper calcium absorption, but a healthy diet should provide these things. Sunlight stimulates the production of vitamin D in the skin. Vitamin D is currently classified as a hormone because it is produced in one organ (the skin) and used in other organs of the body.


Diet is important in molting...but each bird is different as well. My Cinnamon DID NOT change disposition when molting, but Fuzzy did and both were hand tamed and bonded to me. Fuzzy got grumpier and more bitey while Cinnamon did not. Diet is important but it also depends on the disposition of the bird. As to the protein, eggs are great, but if you're already offering pellets eggs are just extra. And TOO much protein can be bad for the bird.

Another thing I noticed is that you didn't mention full spectrum lighting. Not everyone has access to sunlight (here in WA its too cold to do so or its too rainy AND I have quite a few birds so its not practical.) but there is FSL bulbs available that can simulate sunlight and help with vitamin D production. Just some things to keep in mind.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

DesertDweller, here's a link to an electronic version of the book you referenced: http://www.scribd.com/TheChangwani/d/39102252-Avian-Medicine-Harrison

Could you show us which pages the information is on? I'm very curious to see what it says.


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## DesertDweller (Oct 8, 2011)

enigma731 said:


> DesertDweller, here's a link to an electronic version of the book you referenced: http://www.scribd.com/TheChangwani/d/39102252-Avian-Medicine-Harrison
> 
> Could you show us which pages the information is on? I'm very curious to see what it says.


That's not the same book. The one you are referencing is called 'Avian Medicine: Principles and Application' by Ritchie, Harrison and Harrison.

I referenced 'Clinical Avian Medicine and Surgery' by Harrison and Harrison.

Thanks for the reference to the ebook. It has a different set of information, so I'm looking forward to reading it. 

The pages that discuss the basics of molting are pp. 36 and 37. There, among other things, they are discussing how 'molting...results in increased nutritional demand on the bird and may produce significant stress...'
The emphasis that I'd like to point out is that the authors say 'MAY' produce significant stress.

My personal experience with a wide variety of bird species has shown that my birds did not experience stress as a result of increased nutritional demand, and all maintained full plumage during molt. I never experienced a behavioral change in any of my birds who were going through molt.

There are numerous debates ongoing in the veterinary profession regarding avian nutrition. Harrison and Harrison point out some of these debates. I've also seen reference to them in researching across numerous sources. My research started in 1973 when I got hold of Robert Stroud's book 'Digest of the Diseases of Birds' and has continued since that time.

The bottom line is: my birds are doing fine, thank goodness. And I hope sincerely that other people have healthy fids as well.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

DesertDweller you can go to the site in the link, and in the search box find the book you are referring to, and post a quote from the page, and list the page # and title for others to look at....which would be the last paragraph on page 36 and the remaining portion of the pargragh on page 37.

I do have the book you listed and mine is published in 1986. The Avian Medicine was published in 1994 which Harrison updated quite a bit of info from his earlier books. And since you do research you will also know that info from the 70's is far different than info today.


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## DesertDweller (Oct 8, 2011)

srtiels said:


> I do have the book you listed and mine is published in 1986. The Avian Medicine was published in 1994 which Harrison updated quite a bit of info from his earlier books. And since you do research you will also know that info from the 70's is far different than info today.


Yes, I saw the different publishing dates, however, like I had stated, the 2 books contain different material. I like that the one you referenced has more on the companion bird. The one I referenced is much more clinically oriented. Put the 2 together and one can get some good insight.

Yes, I am aware of the advances in avian research since the 70's. As I had stated, I started my studies in 1973 and continue studying to this day. And, the book I had obtained in 1973 was originally published in 1939. Often I'll go to Google Books and look up books written way back in the 1700's to compare to current research. Really is an eye-opener! 

Back in the 50's through the 90's, scientists had dismissed 'folk medicine' as being hogwash and, to some extent based on superstition. Now, however, if you look through the literature on human medicine, you'll see that they're finally realizing that much of what had been used very long ago really works.

In essence, I like to have a look at as much of the full spectrum of experience as possible. I don't just accept something because some expert says it's so. I decide for myself, using what experts come up with as a guide.

Just a note: a finch came in to the store with a badly broken leg - broken in 3 places from shipping. The vet was going to euthanize the bird. I bought the bird, used Stroud's instructions on setting a leg and the bird recovered completely. So, there's still wisdom to be found in the oldies but goodies.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I don't think anyone is arguing that there is _no_ value in the older books, but when more recent research contradicts earlier research, generally the convention is to disregard the earlier evidence. The 1994 book (linked) indicates that malnutrition is likely to result in shortened or absent molts. It also states that if a previously-malnourished bird is put onto a better diet, the result may be a prolonged, slow molt as the body adapts and heals itself. 

So I really don't think there is any basis for the generalization that any time a bird has a slow molt, it's the result of a nutritional deficit. I'm glad that your birds have had minimal stress with their molts, but no matter how many birds you personally have cared for, that is not a systematic study of how _all_ birds should molt. When we give advice, it's very important to differentiate between our personal experiences, and generally accepted conventions in the field. When we disregard individual variation, we risk leading members in a direction that is inappropriate for their particular bird.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*In essence, I like to have a look at as much of the full spectrum of experience as possible. I don't just accept something because some expert says it's so. I decide for myself, using what experts come up with as a guide.*

Good points, and as you noted in a previous post you have to watch the *wording* such as _could and should_ is taken out of context by the reader to mean that it may or does. I find the lack of clear cut wording many times leaves the reader to form their own interpretations of what is read.


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## DesertDweller (Oct 8, 2011)

srtiels said:


> Good points, and as you noted in a previous post you have to watch the *wording* such as _could and should_ is taken out of context by the reader to mean that it may or does. I find the lack of clear cut wording many times leaves the reader to form their own interpretations of what is read.


Thank you. This forum is so very cool. As much as I may have learned over the many years that I've been in love with birds, I avidly read the posts here and keep learning from others. I hope that new bird owners see the value of all the input in this forum. 

And, I wanted to give a big hug to everyone for their sharing of good advice and precious stories of their fids. :clap:

And, it's a valuable thing to read the advice given, and think it through oneself. Some advice applies to some people, other advice may not.


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## MyCricket (Aug 11, 2011)

UPDATE: Kind of ironic that a few days after I posted this I started seeing a lot more feathers in and around Cricket's cage. I think he's started to molt now... 
As for my earlier question, I'm not sure what kind of Cockatiel Cricket is. He looks like the generic breed, Grey body with a yellow face and orange cheeks, and the breeder I got him from wasn't quite sure what gender he was but guessed he was a he.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

He would be called a normal grey...and since he's molting you'll know his true gender soon enough!


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## MyCricket (Aug 11, 2011)

What should I look for after he molts to know if he is male or female?


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Males will have a yellow face like Luna is getting in my signature picture. Females will keep the grey face.


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