# New here, have a sick birdie



## 4Birdies (May 20, 2012)

I am new to this forum and have never participated in anything like it. I found you while looking up reasons that my 18 year old cockatiel might be getting seeds stuck to his face all of a sudden. Anyway, just took him to the vet and he has a bacterial infection. The last time he was at the vet was years ago and he freaked out. He did the same today. He even had a few little "episodes" or seizures that the vet said could possibly be attributed to stress. He had another one here at home though too, when I put him back in his cage. I'm very worried. The vet mentioned a tumor possibility due to his age, though no cancer cells showed up on the initial tests, just this infection. Due to the holiday weekend, other labs will take longer than normal. He did give Jack, my bird, a shot and gave us a large spectrum antibiotic to hopefully help until the other labs come in. I was worried about the congestion on one side of him, and I still am, but it's these little seizures now that have me completely on edge! Anyone have any thoughts? Oh, also, a very important note, we did acquire a second cockatiel just about 6 weeks ago. Leo, is about 2 years old and had a clean bill of health at a checkup right before we got him. They have separate cages and are not out together, but are across from each other in the same room. The vet also considered maybe Leo brought in some sort of bacteria that Jack, due to his age, was more susceptible to. So, of course, I feel guilty for this possibility!


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## 4Birdies (May 20, 2012)

Any thoughts, anyone? Jack seems very tired right now, but he had a scary morning. Could these "stress seizures" just go away after he has a good nap? I'm so worried. He's getting old, but he's always been so very healthy. Please help me.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Can you describe the seizures?


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## 4Birdies (May 20, 2012)

He sort of looks stunned. His eyes get real big, he stands completely still and his right foot sort of closes up. He also sort of leans to the right side. They don't seem to last long, maybe 15-30 seconds at the most. At the vet, it seemed to happen twice. At home it's happened 3 more times. Once in the travel cage, twice in his actual cage. He's only been on a perch twice when these all happened, he toppled off just the once.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Hmm. Can you call the vet and tell them that it isn't stopping? I'm not really sure how to advise you, because if they are stress-related, you don't want to stress him more.


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## 4Birdies (May 20, 2012)

Well, the vet's closed. Saturday hours, you know. Jack seems to be doing better. He was preening and sitting by his food dish. Now he's napping. If it happens again, I do think I'll see if this particular vet has an emergency line. We have a regular vet that used to take birds, but is now allergic and can't anymore. So, this is the first time we've been to this one. I really liked him though, and he is an actual avian vet. Wish me luck. I just love my birdie boy. He's been with me so long! I also will have to take him out and give him oral antibiotics later this evening for his bacterial infection. I don't want to stress him anymore. Poor guy. Like I said, please wish Jack and I luck! Thank you, Enigma731, for helping. It's comforting to talk with someone with bird knowledge.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Good thoughts from me and my birds.  I also have an 18 year old who's been sick lately, so I definitely understand how hard it is. I think if he seems better, I would just keep him quiet for now. If he seems weak, you can offer him a little honey or pedialyte diluted in his water. That may help him recover from whatever was going on at the vet visit.


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## nassrah (Feb 27, 2012)

Sending Jack and you the best of vibes.Good Luck to the both of you.Hope he recovers fast X x:yes::flowers::clap:


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## 4Birdies (May 20, 2012)

Thanks for the happy thoughts. It's been about 7 hours since Jack's last seizure. My husband and I have successfully given him his first home dose of antibiotic too. I was extremely worried, so afraid of stressing him again today, but it was uneventful, no seizures, biting or screaching. I hope things continue to look up for Jack. He's such a good boy. I'm so grateful for this forum! Thank you!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

That's very promising! I'm going to move your thread to the health forum, okay? That way you'll be more likely to get medical advice.


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## JaimeS (Nov 28, 2011)

I hope Jack recovers quickly. Sending good thoughts your way


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## 4Birdies (May 20, 2012)

*Difference in flight feathers*

Ok, so Jack and I are 4 doses into his at home treatment. I actually did this last dose by myself, so things are getting easier. However, I'm just remembering something the vet mentioned. He'd asked about wing clipping or moulting as of late. I don't clip Jacks wings, but his left side (opposite side of congestion) wing is lacking the longer flight feathers. I just cleaned his cage the other day and didn't really take note of specific feathers. I wonder if this is connected? The vet had also brought up the idea of a tumor that could be an underlying reason to his congestion and drainage, but then the initial tests came back full of bacteria. Also, Jack seems a bit more tired than usual, but he has no more drainage, and overall his nose looks a lot better. I had chalked the tiredness up to the constant man handling and stress of the dosing. Any thoughts?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Flight feathers that don't grow back can be the result of trauma over time to the feather follicle. Does he ever have night frights, or beat his wings inside the cage? My Sunny doesn't have his outer flight feathers either, but we attribute that to age and many night frights over the years where he knocked the feathers out repeatedly. 

Your situation actually sounds very similar to mine -- My Sunny (who is also 18) has been having breathing difficulties for a while now. We've ruled out infection in his case, so we're left with either allergies or a tumor. Right now we're basically treating it like it's allergies, since there's no treatment for a tumor anyway. 

You can read my threads here http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=28574 and here http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=29870 if you'd like. Right now he's just living with his symptoms. He has good days and worse days, but overall he seems pretty stable and happy. 

It's a good sign that Jack is responding to the treatment. Just focus on that for now.


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## meaggiedear (Nov 20, 2011)

Im glad Jack is doing better.  Sending good thoughts your way and Jack's.


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## 4Birdies (May 20, 2012)

Jack's never been one for many night frights. He's had a few over the years. He does, however, stretch out and flap in his cage each night on a regular basis. I've not heard of damage to the feather follicles before. I guess that makes sense though. Thanks. Jack is still hangin' in there. I'm just waiting on the final lab work to come back to make sure we're using the correct antibiotic and to find out if there are any cancer cells present.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

My Sunny will be 16 and he also is missing his primary flight feathers on his one wing. He is a rehomed tiel so I don't know if he had night frights early on or not. Our vet didn't know why they were missing but said Sunny was in good health. I'm really wondering if it could be an age thing? 

I'm glad to hear Jack is hanging in there. Keep us posted on the lab results- and sending good thoughts to you and Jack.


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## 4Birdies (May 20, 2012)

*Still waiting on labs*

Ugh. Still waiting on complete lab results. Should be in by tomorrow. Thank you all so much for the positive comments. Jack is taking his medicine well, eating, drinking and behaving normally. The swelling around his nose has receded but not gone completely away, and there is no drainage or signs of congestion. Also, all three of my other birds are symptom free. I'll let you know as soon as I hear final results.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I hope you get some answers, and that they're ones you can address. I know it's frustrating not knowing what's wrong with them. Don't you wish they could just tell us? 

One other thing I would suggest -- Take a really, really careful look at his environment. Is there anything at all that's changed? Or anything that could be chronically irritating? My Sunny has recently had some improvement in his breathing after we moved his cage away from an air conditioning vent. I had never realized it was a problem because it wasn't actually causing a draft on his cage, but now I think there may have been more allergens near the vent since he's definitely less sneezy away from it. 

It's possible that Jack has both an underlying allergic/inflammatory condition and an opportunistic infection that you're treating now with antibiotics. I certainly think that's been true in my Sunny's case. And my other bird is also symptom-free. (I'm not saying we have the same thing going on here, just trying to give you some possible ideas since it sounds so similar.  )

Still sending you guys good thoughts!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

sunnysmom said:


> I'm really wondering if it could be an age thing?


I'm pretty convinced that it is. My vet was super convinced they'd find some kind of disease of old age to explain it, but we did a million tests and they were all normal. My Sunny doesn't really have night frights either, but he does beat his wings in the cage sometimes when he gets really excited. Plus, you have to figure there's just a lot of wear and tear on the feather follicles by that point in their lives.


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## 4Birdies (May 20, 2012)

*Nose still doesn't look normal*

So, Jack seems fine. His labs still aren't back, however. I'm getting annoyed at this point. He looks healthier, he has no discharge, nothing sticking to his nose, no seizures, but that one nostril is still smaller than normal. I'm confused by this. His upper nose is no longer swollen looking and there is no discoloration, but his nostril is tiny. No sneezing, taking medicine very well at this point, been on Baytril for 7 days now. Any thoughts?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Can you post a picture of it?


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## 4Birdies (May 20, 2012)

*Sorry for the delay*

Hi, sorry for the gap in updates. Jack is now on a second round of Baytril. He responded very well to the first round and was off it for about a week before his recheck. His nostril had opened back up and he looked almost perfect to me by then. At his recheck, the vet took a tissue and with light pressure across his nose, still got some discharge, albeit very little, clear and not sticky. This was a great improvement, but evidence that he wasn't 100% yet. Thus, the second round of antibiotics. This second round is a bit harder than the first too, because Jack is getting crabby. He doesn't like all this manhandling. Maybe it's a good sign, that he's feeling better. Maybe he has more energy to squirm now than he did before.

In the meantime, I am surprised to find myself in the position of deliberating yet another cockatiel adoption! I've had Jack for 18 years and Leo for about 2 months. Now, another friend has asked if I could take two more! They belong to her coworker. They share a cage, are siblings and are only about 4 months old. I don't know anything about 4 month old cockatiels, yet I find myself mad at the fool who willingly took in these young birds, with NO bird experience and now says they are too demanding and dirty.
I feel the need to rescue these babies, but I don't think I should because I still am medicating Jack. I said I'd only consider taking them in, if she still had them in a couple months, after I knew Jack was healthy. I don't want to endanger any other birds. I also know, however, that at this young age, these first months are extremely important to their development and training. Anyway, anyone have thoughts on all this?


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

It sounds like things are looking up for Jack.  I'm very glad the meds are helping him. As far as the other two birds, I really can't tell you what to do -- But definitely keep in mind that you should only take them if you feel prepared. You won't be doing them any favors if taking them in means over-extending yourself. That being said, if Leo didn't catch anything from Jack, then Jack's infection is probably not contagious. Personally I'd be more concerned about the potential for the two young birds to infect your current birds with something, so your ability to quarantine them should definitely be a factor.


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## 4Birdies (May 20, 2012)

*2 new birds?*

Yes, enigma, those are also my thoughts. I'm still concerned that Jack became ill for the first time ever, only weeks after getting Leo. I know with Jacks age it could be a coincidence, but he could definitely be more prone to bacteria brought in by other birds due to his age too. My vet actually referred to him as a geriatric patient! So, yes, I know my first responsibility is to Jack. I'd never forgive myself if I got him better and then brought in two new ones and he got sick again. So, it sounds like I've made a decision. I can't feel responsible for these two new babies, yet I do. I just can't stand irresponsible pet owners. I will ask my vet if he knows of anyone who could take in these babies. That's what I'll do. Thank you, enigma, for helping me sort this out. Once again, I'm so glad I found this site!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

I think that's a very good solution.  

Also, I hate when vets use terms like that. I guess statistically, 18 IS old relative to averages. I recently read a study that showed data from a very large survey sample suggesting that the average lifespan of pet 'tiels is only 7 years. Isn't that sad/horrible? So I suppose if a vet is used to seeing lots of clients like that, then 18 would seem geriatric. But then you see birds on this forum that live into their 20s and even 30s, so relative to THAT potential, 18 is only middle-aged. Of course, that's not the norm, and 18 is a very respectable age -- but I don't think I'd be looking at him like he's at the end of his life when he's still acting healthy. That's how I've been trying to approach my own 18 year old, who also was sick this year for the first time in his life. 

If you're concerned about Jack's immune system, you might try putting him on probiotics for a while. Actually, that's a good idea anyway, since he should get them after being on Baytril. I've used Benebac successfully in the past, and am currently trying out the one from Avitech. Most likely this infection was a coincidence -- bacterial infections are relatively common with any pet, and the great majority of the time we never find out the real cause. But it is also true that younger birds can be more prone to carrying things, since their immune systems aren't fully developed.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm glad to hear Jack is doing better!


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## 4Birdies (May 20, 2012)

*Now onto Itraconazole*

Well, Jack did two rounds of antibiotics, but once off of them, he developed symptoms again. In the initial testing they found trace amounts of fungus. So, now we're 2 weeks into that treatment. He just went for his 3rd visit to the vet and all looked very good. We're starting to think that he may have permanent damage to his nasal passage on the left side because he still has a slight discharge, but no other symptoms. He has maintained his weight through all of this (93-96 grams), he's eating fine, his personality is unchanged, etc. So, we're finishing this medicine and then just keeping a close eye on him. Wish us luck. I'll check back in with you all and let you know how he's doing. In the meantime, Leo, Max and Peyton are all doing very well. I can't believe that I grew up with birds, and have had Jack for 18 years, yet I've learned so much more about their health and care in the last 2 months! I'm also gradually adding Zupreme into Jacks diet. He's been a very spoiled boy all these years, and really loves his seeds. This is a mistake I won't make with Leo. He came to me eating Zupreme, and he continues. Thank you all so much for this forum. Most people don't understand how much you can truly love a bird. I've been so worried about Jack, but I feel much better now, and he does too!


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Good luck, I'm glad you're getting to the bottom of this! My rescue girl has some chronic discharge that we think is the result of living in a smoker's home, so it is possible to have that longterm. Have you seen my thread on vitamin A supplementation for birds with breathing issues? It might have some additional tips for you.


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

Here's the link: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=30006&page=2

I think theres more info on carotene in my Labored Breathing thread, linked at the beginning of this one.


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