# HELP - Accidental overdose!



## 7102

** DELETED Sorry! **


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## bjknight93

Try to call an emergency vet and speak to them on the phone...if they think it's too much they may want to induce vomiting. How long ago did you give it to her?


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## 7102

Approximately 4.5 hours ago. Like I say, she's outwardly fine as she's sitting on her perch and either sleeping or cleaning her feet or wondering what I'm doing. It's currently 10:37pm in the UK, hence I wanted some quick advise before I call the local vet first thing in the morning for more quick advise

(Downside of Scotland; there are only about 3 avian vets in Scotland, so I had a local one for quick things like checkups and nail trims but went to an avian vet 1.5 hours away from us to see Angel specifically and get bloodwork done)

EDIT: I'm sorry if I sound like a total panic merchant; with an animal so small I'm scared for her -_- I know from her previous x-ray that her liver is fine so that is not an additional factor -as in, bad organs will make it worse - as well as her heart and kidneys


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## enigma731

Which one was overdosed? Both? Personally I would be more worried about the Metacam, since it can cause kidney problems in large doses. Of course, it's difficult to know how much your bird actually got, and I believe it has a pretty large therapeutic range, so I'm not sure how likely it is to cause toxicity in the amount she may have taken. I would watch her droppings to make sure that the urine and urate portions remain normal, and not discolored. You may also want to encourage her to take extra fluids, but use your judgment. If it's too stressful, then best not to force her. Also be careful of aspiration. Since she probably got an unusually large dose of the antibiotic, you'll want to put her on a probiotic probably starting tomorrow to make sure her gut flora doesn't get too imbalanced.


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## 7102

It was the Metacam I was more concerned about as she has it as a painkiller due to her condition. Especially reading a thread on another forum about a different bird species also receiving the same miscalculated overdose I had made (missing the extra 0. I used to go to labs in Uni, how could I make that kind of mistake?!)

A pro in her favour is that this is the first dose, so there is no established level in her system from previous dosings. She is still eating and drinking since the dose and is moving around okay, she's settling to sleep and I've put the heater on to ensure that the room is not too cold for her. Her droppings are normal from what I can see but I'll put down some paper to catch 'fresh' specimen separate from previous ones to see them.

The vet downtown will be open in *counts* 12 hours (11am, as it's 11:18pm at the moment). I'll stay awake for most of the night to monitor her (with the anxiety I'm having at the moment, that won't be hard!) and if there is any sudden or dramatic change, I'll immediately get a vet on the line


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## enigma731

What is her condition?

Also, what is the concentration of the Metacam you have? 

Most likely if you were going to see toxicity, it would happen relatively quickly, since birds metabolize medications very quickly. It's a good sign that she's doing okay so far, but continue to keep an eye on her as you are doing.

ETA: Try not to be too hard on yourself. Accidents happen. You are a great bird parent for getting her treatment.


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## 7102

Her condition is trying to sleep at the moment. Previously, she walked around the cage to have a look at the main cage since I changed the water in the main cage (a 'what are you doing?' moment), had a nibble of her millet, and is now trying to have a nap.

[NOTE : she's in her travel cage at the moment as a 'hospital' cage to prevent her moving around too much as she's recovering from x-ray]

The concentration of the Metacam is Cat 15m


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## enigma731

Sorry, I meant to ask what medical condition she's being treated for? I know I wasn't clear.


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## 7102

Oh! She has a broken rib on her right side (5th one) which I'm not sure where it came from apart from perhaps a flight crash (she doesn't understand windows -_-)

She also has a crop infection of monomorphic bacteria. She is being kept in her travel cage as her hospital cage since she's grounded to allow her ribs to heal themselves. Or at least give them a fighting chance!
She will be kept in her hospital cage for 4-5 weeks to limit her movements and give her ribs a chance to heal. She will go back to the vet in 2 weeks to check out her crop infection


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## srtiels

Metacam scares me, and I personally will not use it or advise others to use, even if their vets prescribe i,t because of the potential to cause renal problems. A safer and just as effective treatment for pain is baby aspirin. I tablet dissolved in 1 pint of water, and used as the drinking water.

Also, Baytril in excess can harm the liver, thus the dosage must be exact. The best way to tell if the dosage is too him with Baytril is to watch the urates in the poop. they should be white. If the dosage is too much the urates will change to a pale lime green.


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## 7102

I wasn't too keen on using painkillers myself as she is not in any visible pain at all. I'll keep an eye on her poops and get a local vet on the phone first thing in the morning. They don't treat her but will at least hopefully recognise what I'm treating her with and advise what to do, at least to hold me until Monday when my avian vet is open again

I realise this isn't the best introduction to the forums and I do apologise -_-; I've got amusing stories to tell about my Lutino hen Bonnie when I'm happy with Angel's condition


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## enigma731

Please discuss this with your vet before you decide to discontinue altogether. While I agree that medications can have drawbacks as far as their effects on organ function, the thing to keep in mind is that Metacam is both an analgesic and an anti-inflammatory. So even if she is not in visible pain, your vet may feel that the anti-inflammatory properties are important for proper healing of the broken rib. 

I have wholehearted respect for those who are concerned about Metacam's effects on the kidneys, but I personally have used both Metacam and Rimadyl very successfully, and know of several other birds that are on these medications longterm with no ill effects for chronic medical conditions. As always, the key to safe medication use is constant monitoring and evaluation of which medication is most appropriate for a given condition (e.g. aspirin might be fine if it's to treat pain alone, but Metacam might be needed as an anti-inflammatory). This is certainly a worthwhile discussion to have with your vet tomorrow.

I've had no luck finding information about specific toxic amounts of Metacam in birds, but even if she got the full amount that you had in the syringe, it would still be a relatively small amount in mg/kg (well below toxic levels for other species, although birds are arguably more sensitive).


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## 7102

Whew, that's a relief! She definately got some of it on my shirt and on her face (as she was struggling, she doesn't like being held despite being a cuddly bird!). I'm not dosing her until I get word from a vet but thank you for your reassurance. 

The local vet is a dog-and-cat vet who has seen her before but her medication was prescribed by the avian vet since the dog-and-cat vet couldn't do very much for her in her current state and couldn't really do the complicated things like x-ray and blood tests with all the backup of an avian vet.

Fingers and feathers crossed for tomorrow! She's got one foot up and is yawning, not liking South Park on at the moment and watching me clean


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## enigma731

I obviously can't make you any promises, but as long as her behavior remains normal and her droppings continue to look okay, I would just continue to let her rest until tomorrow. Most painkillers have a very wide therapeutic range, but the caveat of course is that birds can be extremely sensitive to medications. Was she supposed to be dosed once or twice a day? I think the half-life of Metacam is around 12 hours, so about 1/4 of the dose should be out of her system by now.

ETA: Of course, I don't mean to discourage you from calling a vet/doing more if you feel it's necessary. We're not vets, so it's important that members always use their best judgment. You know your bird better than we do.


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## 7102

She was supposed to be dosed once a day for the Metacam and twice a day for her Baytril

Okay, she just pooped, let me look at it. Okay, there is white in it as well as green, but no lime green. I'll let it dry and take another look at the colouration. Once it's dried, I'll replace the sandpaper (she's seperated from the bottom of the cage, don't worry!) with white printer paper to show the droppings better


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## enigma731

That's a good idea. The important thing right now is that you want the white urates to stay white, especially when the dropping is fresh. I wouldn't worry too much about the coloration once it's dry, actually. It's normal for there to be some bleeding of the colored part into the rest as it dries, so by the time it's dry, the color will be somewhat distorted. 

Take a look at this thread: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=10100


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## 7102

Her droppings appear normal, compared to the other droppings elsewhere in the paper (that date prior to her dosage). She's still curious, whistling and watching everything, so she's still alert to her surroundings and climbing around the cage fine.

I appreciate all the advise you are all giving me ^_^ I know you're not vets, but it's still reassuring to hear from fellow 'tiel owners. If anything dreadfully wrong happened (lost balance, blood in droppings, listlessness, vomiting, etc.) the vets number is the first port of call but the fact she is acting normally is what caused me to ask the internet rather than the vet first off.

I'm utterly shocked I could have made this mistake. I'm trying to make my little cuddlebug better, not harm her! But I see other threads where even seasoned bird owners make that kind of mistake but I still am not going to let myself do it again!

EDIT: I looked at the thread on droppings and followed a link to the holistic bird website. Angel's droppings look like the cockatiel droppings shown there, only with more green matter than white


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## enigma731

You will never make it again, I'm sure. But yes, accidents happen to everyone. The important thing is that you are trying your best to take care of her. (Make sure you take care of yourself, too.)


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## 7102

Thank you, I'll update this once I know what to do with regard to Angel, and I'll make a proper introductory post as well for both my hens!

Angel is the sweet cuddlebug Grey hen, hence I feel even worse for doing this. Bonnie is the Lutino Diva hen and if this happened to her, she'd be fighting mad. Angel has been excellent considering all the vet prodding and poking that's happened to her, as well as the overnight stay and travelling (like I say, 1.5 hours to get to the vets and same back, depending on traffic). After the crop wash with the huge needle down her throat, I thought she'd never talk to any of us again!

She's just blinked awake at the dog barking outside, so still responding to stimuli, which is excellent.


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## enigma731

How is Angel doing today?


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## 7102

Angel is going perfectly fine! She's eating, drinking, her droppings are normal and she has had a chew at her toys.I'm not dosing her tonight and will call the vet tomorrow before I dose her to make sure everything is okay


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## enigma731

That's great! Please do let us know what the vet says when you talk. I'm thinking of you guys.


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## 7102

I think it was her vet I got on the emergency call XD As long as she's doing fine then it's okay, as the medication has a wide safety margin. Not a mistake I am ever going to make again! I'll need to get more medication for her as I've obviously used up/gotten on my t-shirt 10 doses already!


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## enigma731

For when you do need to dose her again, take a look at this thread: http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=28213&highlight=oral+medication

And this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EBUWWqqEyE&feature=related

That should help.  They can definitely be squirmy little things when it comes to avoiding yucky meds.


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## 7102

The dose I need to give her is pretty small, so hopefully she'll just bite the syringe and I can inject the liquid at the same time!

I double checked with the vets yesterday, the nurse advised me to leave her until FRIDAY then start dosing her again. This is different advise but still, it gives her a long time to recover from the dosing. She's still perfectly fine; eating, singing, droppings are normal and she's drinking. She's running around curiously after I installed her new UV lamp!

When I take her for her checkup on the 26th, I'll tell the vet in detail what happened and ask about any long-term organ damage. I don't want her to pay for my stupid mistake for the rest of her life!


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## bjknight93

The liver/kidney can heal itself overtime. As long as you don't make the mistake again, I wouldn't worry about any long-term damage.


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## 7102

Absolutely not; at least I know her heart/liver/kidneys were fine before this mistake as the vet looked at them on her x-ray and looked at her blood. Like I've said before, it was a single, large dose and she had no previous doses before that (so there was no 'build up' or base level before her dose), and this was a day after she came home after her x-ray so she was over her anesthesia as well.

She's got a UV lamp shining over her right now (Arcadia complete kit, with half the cage in shade in case she doesn't want the light/needs a rest) to help her and is happily eating her seed and garlic sticks


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## enigma731

I agree that if you didn't see any symptoms of kidney/liver problems with the overdose, she's unlikely to have any lasting effects. Even birds that have longterm problems from poor care can heal, so I really this will be an issue at all.


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## Cryren8972

You can put a product called herb salad in with her to help her flush everything. http://www.herbsnbirds.com/herb-salad-for-birds.shtml. I used it on a rescue tiel that was only given 6 months to live due to kidney and liver failure. I've now had him over three years. If she won't pick at it (he wouldn't), then you can make a tea out of it for her to drink in her water. Make sure to make a diluted tea...this is good stuff. =)


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