# Any ideas what this could be? help please



## Raven2322 (Mar 1, 2008)

So, I only have a couple of minutes to write this, I'm taking my bird in for observation for the day, I started a new temp job recently and I'm 30 minutes away and won't be home for hours. 

Last night, out of the blue Monroe started acting strange. He seemed to be losing his balance and totttering from foot to foot every few seconds. He was holding his wing out from his body as if to cool himself off, except he has no feathers on his stomach of undersides and this is not normal for him. He went from only a little raised to a lot raised. He was squinting a lot as well and at first I thought maybe he vomited, but there were no sign of that. The only thing I've seen the last few days is he has had food residue on and in his beak, but he's had this in the past so I thought not much of it, till the vet suggested it could be from vomiting. Well I called my vet she said to towel him and check his feet. So when I toweled him, which I've done with him many times, he cried in pain. He then attempted to fly, cried in pain again and almost fell out of the air, so not normal. At various other times he also seemed in pain. I decided he needed to go to the vet, so we had an emergency visit. We found that his weight was the same, his liver seemed a little swollen ( no diet changes recently), his feet were not hurt, but the vet said his ankles seemed swollen, also, and random points when he sifted his feet which has continued to be every few seconds we could hear a clicking sound from his leg joint somewhere. Also, when he tried to do a full body shake at home last night, one wing went forward, one went back and he almost lurched/fell right off his perch. However, his grip on a finger is good with no problems. When she checked his liver area, he cried in pain, and he seemed to be in so much pain, we gave him a pain shot. I also currently have him on .04 ml of metacam every 10-12 hours. She said it didn't seem possible that fatty liver could come on so fast, and it seems much more likely he hurt him self somehow than he is sick. He spent last night in the travel cage, on a heating pad, but as soon as I have him his meds this morning and put him back in the cage, he fluffed up, started holding out his wings and moving like he could not stand still again. Still squinting and crying a little, but not too much. I'm at a total lose, this all seemed to come on within 1 hour of me getting home, as he seemed fine when I got home yesterday although I might have just missed it. 

He's going in today to be watched, but I thought I would ask all of you if you had any ideas. If this continues we're heading for an x-ray first and then blood work. any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

It sound more like you have kidney problems, and if not corrected he could go into renal/kidney failure. Ask you vet to run some blood tests and look for uric acid levels. The swollen ankles are a clue (GOUT), and he would be in excrucitating pain if there is alot of uric acid crystals going thru the renal tubes. Ask you vet about treating for gout. I beleive allopurinol is the most effective. Ask about it in his drinking water because many times giving orally there is a risk of aspiration because it taskes nasty.

In the meantime....What you can do is get some cherries and sqweeze some of the juice from them into his drinking water. Also go to the health food store and get some Corn Silk herbal extract. Shake well and put 10 drops in his water, changing the water 2-3 times a day. I have found both of these very effective in reducing the uric acid crystals in the body. The green tops of celery help too. And if the liver is effected (which would be a secondary problem) start giving him some dandelion greens to nibble on...OR get some dandelion extract and add 4-5 drops of it to his water.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Also...reduce protein AND calcium sources for now. What is his diet?

Below is some info from old postings that you can discus with your vet... Also have your vet check for hydration and give him fluids (Sub-Q) if needed.
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(My responce to someone that was told a bird can not be treated) This is WRONG info you are being given as far as renal/kidney problems with your birds. They CAN be treated sucessfully and live a long healthy life. 

Renal problems are not exclusive to diet or genetics. A simple accident where the tiel get wedged somewhere with the wings up...even for a couple of minutes can cause a chill to the kidneys...thus crystalization of the urates, and if not caught soon enough and the bird Sub-Q hydrated it can go into renal failure and die. Quick action of Sub-Q therapy can actually reverse the renal failure and save a bird. 

Clipped birds that have a draft going upwards can also suffer the same fate. Over the years I lost several birds this way (verified by necropsy's) 

Excess protein in the diet can contribute to to renal problems and failure. A breeder friend of mine added powdered protein to her handfeeding formula to beef up her babies. Within 24 hours 11 out of 12 babies went into renal failure. 

Pesticides or toxins can cause renal failure. 

Typical indications of renal problems: The bird acts lethagic. The muscles feel bunched and tight. The eyes are slitted from excruciating pain. There is either blood (pinkish discoloration) in the urine, or the urates will be thin, gritty, and chalky looking. 

Initial treatment would be a medication called allopurinol. Usually you will see a dramitic improvement with the bird within a day. Other helpful things are adding a small amount of cranberry or cherry juice to the drinking water. This helps to break down some of the crystals formed from the uric acid. Hulled oats (oat groats) helps to reduce uric acid levels. Celery greens and seeds are good for renal problems and act as an antiseptic to disinfect the urinary tubules. The silk from ear corn (organically grown or a herbal extract) will sooth the damaged urinary tract, and improve urine flow. Plus corn silk is a source of potassium, Vitamin C and K. Plain grass, roots and all (no joke, cats/dogs will eat this if they have urinary problems) will benifit both the liver and kidneys. Dandilion greens helps with the liver, but it also aids the kidneys by stimulating them to remove toxins in the urine. 
The above is a few simple things to help those with renal/kidney problems. I've personally used many of the above things to help the bird and not lose it. 


*Celery:*
Celery is an excellent food that digests well with almost anything else. It contains the necessary mineral sodium, which is present in a ratio that can be easily accessed by the body. Sodium is critical, along with the mineral potassium, in managing the body's electrolyte balance. 
Electrolytes create electric osmotic pressure which helps the body to move fluids through the cell's membranes. It can be eaten with any other fruit or vegetable.


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## Raven2322 (Mar 1, 2008)

srtiels said:


> Also...reduce protein AND calcium sources for now. What is his diet?


He currently eats a variety of zupreem pellets and some millet, although he had not had much of that recently. He only had some seed mix over 1 week ago, and that was the first time in months that he had anything besides millet or pellets. I did notice that he was not going to sleep the last couple of nights with his crop as full as it normally seems to be. Normally he is so full it bulges out, but the last few days that has not been the case. He is at the vet right now being observed, I will give her a call as soon as I can while at work here and ask her about the things you mentioned. She is also suppose to contact me if they observe him and decide that any tests need to be done. Thanks for the information, I'm really worried, this is the first time I've had to leave him there or be away from him when something was wrong. So I'm going crazy with worry. If you have any other thoughts or suggestions please don't hesistate to mention anything else. Thanks again.


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## Raven2322 (Mar 1, 2008)

Well he can't be feeling too bad, because when I called the vet office to check up on him, worried out of my mind, making mistakes at work all day. They tell me that he is mating with Marrilyn, who I took with him to keep his stress level down. On top of that, they haven't figured out how to mate in over 6 plus months and I was planning on putting marrilyn in to attempt to have babies with aladdin, I guess I will be waiting on that. 

Although they couldn't get the vet out of surgery to let me know about the bahaviors he was doing, and he did do normal things while displaying all the other things above. 

I think I will still get blood tests though to be safe. 

Any thoughts?????


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Cut back on the pellets for now. Give him his seed and millet. Put some pellets in a separate bowl so that he can pick and choose what he want to eat for now. If you have any cherries or cranberry juice add some to his water...*just enough to slightly* turn the water a pale dilute pink.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

LOL...sometimes when they do not feel well this will give them the urge to proceate/breed to try and save the species (in thier way of thinking)


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## Raven2322 (Mar 1, 2008)

srtiels said:


> LOL...sometimes when they do not feel well this will give them the urge to proceate/breed to try and save the species (in thier way of thinking)


Do you still think I should still be seriously worried about the situation then. Because by that thinking I would think it could be bad if he suddenly after over 6 plus months figured it out to do it. Although it could be a different perch or because they are not in the flight cage with everyone else. 

I still haven't heard back from my vet yet and I'm going crazy. 

Thanks so much for all your help.


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## Raven2322 (Mar 1, 2008)

So I'm waiting for my blood work to come back. Still giving pain meds every 10-12 hours. However, yesterday when I went to pick up monroe from the vet, his stomach (which has no feathers) was red and irritated looking and he had 4 small cuts on it. They had not even noticed this or done anything about it. When I said I would put something on it at home they took that to mean it was ok for me to show up after a day of worry to find my bird in such a state. Not to mention, I then started to worry about how they handled him while there, as he is a rescue bird and he has handling tramas. He has been nervous and upset ever since coming home. It also seems like his keel bone is more noticable and this has me worry. They had no information of any kind for me yesterday when I picked him up.  He doesn't seem to be eating much either, or so it seems based on how far out his crop is sticking. I did give him lots of millet today before heading for work and I have seen him drinking water.

I called a little while ago and demanded my vet call me whether the tests are in or not by the end of the day because I need am update on something. I also want to know what exactly they watched for if anything, because I felt safe leaving him there because I trust my vet and now I find I have to worry about the vet techs, because who knows what they do or don't know and what they are don't. 

I'm still really worried and I hope I get some answers soon.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

You might want to ask the vets office what they had out for him to eat. if it was another brand food or something he was not familair with he may not have eaten, and that would stress him too.

I'm not sure what would have caused the cuts, but you can put Neosporin on them.


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## Raven2322 (Mar 1, 2008)

srtiels said:


> You might want to ask the vets office what they had out for him to eat. if it was another brand food or something he was not familair with he may not have eaten, and that would stress him too.
> 
> I'm not sure what would have caused the cuts, but you can put Neosporin on them.


I brought him the only thing I had for him that day which was pellets, favorite flavor though. He did eat a small bit of millet when we got home. this morning he didn't even want that. The vet said she did not see him eat at all. they think he scratched himself on the cage, as she said it was like that when they drew the blood, he's scratched himself before so I'm not suprised, but they should have put something on it. I already did last night and it looks much better. 


So the blood test is in, results as followed.

White Blood cell count is low, it's 4.3 and normal is between 5-13

Red blood cell is high, it's 66.7 normal is 45-54

Uric acid is high, it's 13, normal is 3.5-11

AST Liver enzime is high, it's 725, normal is 100-396, although his liver is no longer swollen. 

He just went on baytrill, and tomorrow he is going in the get some fluids, and a fecal test, because we still don't know exactly what is wrong. 

I've got him eating some millet right now, and I hope he eats more this time. 

I hope we figure out what it is soon so we can treat him and get him better fully.


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