# 5 very sad, and tragic losses from Telfon Poisoning.



## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

Someone on my FB posted this and I thought I would re-post it here.

*WARNING*:*There is swearing towards the end*.

EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED…ALL OF MY BEAUTIFUL BIRDS….ALL OF THEM ARE DEAD. HERE IS A RECOUNT OF EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED 

^Just click on the link.


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## Tequilagirl (Mar 4, 2013)

Dear lord what a tragedy. Please people, if you have teflon pans at home bin them now, it's really not worth it.


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## Marina (Jul 19, 2014)

Oh my! Poor birds and poor people...


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## yokobirdie (Jul 9, 2014)

Oh no! That's horrible! Poor birds!


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## Tisena (Sep 28, 2013)

Oh No!! Those poor birds! I'm going to tell my family of this because some members have teflon even though I told them not to


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

Can someone tell me where I should go to get cooking equipment that will certainly NOT contain any teflon? (I am getting married and moving to my new unit in 2 weeks' time. At my current home, I don't really do much stir-frying or anything like that but I may start doing that soon...) Are most frying pans made with Teflon nowadays or just some? If I read the packaging of a frying pan and it does not list Teflon as one of the substances it contains, can I trust it? What should I get if I want to be 100% safe?


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## Tequilagirl (Mar 4, 2013)

Ceramic, cast iron and stainless steel are 100% safe to use around birds


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## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

Everybody should have the common sense not to boil teflon, the fumes are bad for humans too. Owning teflon isn't necessarily a problem as long as you're informed and understand that it shouldn't be overheated.

Same for coffeemakers, which for instance bird-owners should never use vinegar to clean. Do not ever boil vinegar around your pets. I could mean a trip to the vet or the death of your pet.


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## Annie (Nov 20, 2009)

Tequilagirl said:


> Ceramic, cast iron and stainless steel are 100% safe to use around birds


Thanks Tequilagirl. That is very clear. I will stick with these ones. 




Darkel777 said:


> Same for coffeemakers, which for instance bird-owners should never use vinegar to clean. Do not ever boil vinegar around your pets. I could mean a trip to the vet or the death of your pet.


Thanks Darkel777. I never knew that and I have a coffee maker! That is very helpful.


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## Tacotielca (Dec 3, 2013)

Darkel777 said:


> Everybody should have the common sense not to boil teflon, the fumes are bad for humans too. Owning teflon isn't necessarily a problem as long as you're informed and understand that it shouldn't be overheated.
> 
> Same for coffeemakers, which for instance bird-owners should never use vinegar to clean. Do not ever boil vinegar around your pets. I could mean a trip to the vet or the death of your pet.


Wow vinegar too ? I use vinegar and water all the time and use it to clean her cage daily. I also use vinegar and water to wipe up bird poop off furniture and myself. Is that harmful or is it only when boiled. A lot of people here use vinega, please clarify. Thx


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

What a tragedy...reading that was hard. It just goes to show how important it is to educate everyone in the household about bird safety. May the little ones rest in peace and the poor owner forgive herself eventually.


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## moonchild (Jul 29, 2012)

Tacotielca said:


> Wow vinegar too ? I use vinegar and water all the time and use it to clean her cage daily. I also use vinegar and water to wipe up bird poop off furniture and myself. Is that harmful or is it only when boiled. A lot of people here use vinega, please clarify. Thx


My understanding is that it is only harmful when boiled, and is otherwise a bird-safe cleaner.


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## SoCalTiels (Oct 8, 2013)

Reading that was actually painful, I can't even imagine having to watch your birds just slip away. Thank you for posting this though, it's something every bird owner should know and be reminded of. Their lives are so much more fragile than ours.


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## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

Tacotielca said:


> Wow vinegar too ? I use vinegar and water all the time and use it to clean her cage daily. I also use vinegar and water to wipe up bird poop off furniture and myself. Is that harmful or is it only when boiled. A lot of people here use vinega, please clarify. Thx


Only when boiled, the fumes are damaging to parrot's respiratory systems.


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## yokobirdie (Jul 9, 2014)

If Teflon is heated to an excess of 660°F, it can be toxic to birds and humans! (I read this on Scanpan's website )


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## Mezza (Feb 19, 2013)

Annie said:


> Can someone tell me where I should go to get cooking equipment that will certainly NOT contain any teflon? (I am getting married and moving to my new unit in 2 weeks' time. At my current home, I don't really do much stir-frying or anything like that but I may start doing that soon...) Are most frying pans made with Teflon nowadays or just some? If I read the packaging of a frying pan and it does not list Teflon as one of the substances it contains, can I trust it? What should I get if I want to be 100% safe?


There is another brand called GreenPan that is 100% safe to my understanding. It has no PFOE or PTFE.


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## Tacotielca (Dec 3, 2013)

Darkel777 said:


> Only when boiled, the fumes are damaging to parrot's respiratory systems.


Can they be in a different room with no ill effect, or not in the same house at all? I dont really boil vinegar but do pour it into our coffee maker at times (thank goodness we have a new one and havent needed a cleaning yet. Thx.


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## kan3288 (Jan 28, 2013)

Annie said:


> Can someone tell me where I should go to get cooking equipment that will certainly NOT contain any teflon? (I am getting married and moving to my new unit in 2 weeks' time. At my current home, I don't really do much stir-frying or anything like that but I may start doing that soon...) Are most frying pans made with Teflon nowadays or just some? If I read the packaging of a frying pan and it does not list Teflon as one of the substances it contains, can I trust it? What should I get if I want to be 100% safe?


I only use 100% stainless steel cookware now. There are A LOT of different pots/pans that contain PFOA and PTFE (the bad part of Teflon). I have read in a lot of places that even ceramic hasn't been proven to be 100% safe around birds. Stainless steel can be harder to clean, but if you let it soak overnight when something burns on it, you can usually get it off. I wouldn't get anything with andonized aluminum either- again, hasn't been proven safe yet for birds.

Your best bet is stainless steel, good old-fashioned cast iron (hard to clean though), or aluminum. Also, keep an eye on the bakeware you buy too- almost all bread and cake pans I see now have some kind of non-stick surface on them. You can usually find safe products online though.


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## yokobirdie (Jul 9, 2014)

Mezza said:


> There is another brand called GreenPan that is 100% safe to my understanding. It has no PFOE or PTFE.


That's good to know . Right now we use cast iron and they are so heavy<_<.


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## Darkel777 (Jun 7, 2013)

Tacotielca said:


> Can they be in a different room with no ill effect, or not in the same house at all? I dont really boil vinegar but do pour it into our coffee maker at times (thank goodness we have a new one and havent needed a cleaning yet. Thx.


I just use citric acid for cleaning the coffeemaker and bypass the need for vinegar altogether. Citric acid works better if you ask me and doesn't leave a nasty aftertaste.

Some like to add vinegar to other cleaning products which is another thing to avoid. Ammonia most notably but other bases since vinegar is mildly acidic.

Never heard of anybody killing their birds poaching eggs or when using it for cooking, so concentration makes a difference (my wife poaches eggs). When I hear of it, its when somebody inexperienced is boiling it to scrub wire mesh for building cages, adding it to cleaning products, or boiling a concentrated form of it for some other purpose (cleaning coffeemakers).


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## Mezza (Feb 19, 2013)

yokobirdie said:


> That's good to know . Right now we use cast iron and they are so heavy<_<.


Here is a link to their website. I don't have one myself yet. I use stainless pots and yep the heavy cast iron pans. 

I am confident on getting one of these though.

http://www.green-pan.com.au/en/mission-3145.htm


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## Hellena (Feb 11, 2013)

wow, that's just terrible. I honestly did not know teflon was quite that bad for birds. It fills their lungs with fluid? Terrible. She's right, way too many birds are neglected and die terrible deaths because of it. So many people think all they need is a cage, seed and water. That's it. They really do need a lot of care, sometimes more than a cat or dog, that is true too. If definitely find birds to be high maintenance pets, they do need specific attention, and this article was a good example.


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## Nimra (Aug 4, 2014)

God that person must have had such a horrible day.


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## yokobirdie (Jul 9, 2014)

Mezza said:


> Here is a link to their website. I don't have one myself yet. I use stainless pots and yep the heavy cast iron pans.
> 
> I am confident on getting one of these though.
> 
> http://www.green-pan.com.au/en/mission-3145.htm


Cool! Thanks!  I'm going to have to buy one of these!


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## Eyezik (Aug 12, 2014)

yokobirdie said:


> Cool! Thanks!  I'm going to have to buy one of these!



You might want to check the reviews on Amazon.com before purchasing.


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## Jaguar (Jul 11, 2014)

It's not just Teflon - any nonstick surface made with PFTE is toxic to birds (AND HUMANS) when overheated. Key word being overheated here - it's quite difficult to get something that hot with normal everyday use on the stovetop, but nonstick in the oven and nonstick stovetop drip pans are very risky. Her father was BOILING the pan, likely at max heat. 

Nonstick is crappy to cook with either way, but if you are going to use it, stick to med/low heat, turn on your hood fan, and DO NOT leave it unattended for even a second. Tossing or donating it would be even better 

Also I have not seen any solid proof that boiled vinegar is dangerous. Where are you getting that information from?


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## slugabed (Jul 27, 2014)

As I was saying in the other thread... cast iron cookware. I poked around Amazon and found a few pans and woks in the US$20-40 range. Surely that's not too expensive?


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## t birdies (Jan 8, 2011)

I realize I'm a little late with a response....but I could only scan over the article...but it does raise an issue w. me...about how important it is to communicate dangers to w/ everybody coming in contact w/ our birds. 

You have to stress dangers, as if their lives depended on it, b/c it does.

Can't blame anyone when everyone in on a different page. Best thing is to toss the non-stick products in the trash. Cause really if a man-made product can kill a bird, what must it be doing for a human. I'd rather just scrape out a stainless steel pan, like in the old days...than to risk losing my birds. 

If I have no choice, living w/ parents or roomies that insist on their toxic pots & pans...or opening windows & doors or turning on fans, burning candles or anything that could likely happen w/o thinking to those not as personally invested as I....then I won't have birds at all, until I can do better.

One tragic ending, that could have easily been avoided.


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## skuiper (Mar 6, 2014)

I am currently sobbing in the library. What a sad story!


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

That was just so gutting to read  That poor person will be in such pain & torment....
We ditched all non-stick some time ago after getting Cheekee.
But we are about to try a "Neoflame" Pan...it is claimed to be 100% fee of PFOA & PTFE, and actually mentions being safe for ALL living beings, and does reference mortality in birds from other products.
I am still a little paranoid as there is no way for the consumer like ourselves to be totally sure....
Does anyone already use Neoflame products who can give feedback?


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## t birdies (Jan 8, 2011)

Vince said:


> That was just so gutting to read  That poor person will be in such pain & torment....
> We ditched all non-stick some time ago after getting Cheekee.
> But we are about to try a "Neoflame" Pan...it is claimed to be 100% fee of PFOA & PTFE, and actually mentions being safe for ALL living beings, and does reference mortality in birds from other products.
> I am still a little paranoid as there is no way for the consumer like ourselves to be totally sure....
> Does anyone already use Neoflame products who can give feedback?


Vince,
I hope you'll remain paranoid...I am, so without question...I urge everyone owned by a bird to just adapt your cooking to well-known cooking tools. i.e., ceramic (which doesn't stick so much), cast iron, glass, silicone, stainless steel. 
Heck, I cook crispy bacon, eggs sunny-sideup. pancakes in the OVEN! no messy cleanup or spattering grease or standing there watching... better yet, you can microwave fluffy scrambled eggs using water, no oil...the internet is chock full of alternative ways of doing things. Save worrying about our birds. 

In this day and age, when every day some product gets recalled or some company gets sued for not disclosing info that could've saved lives. I'm gonna stick w/ the tried and true companies and proven bird-safe products.

Forgive me, if I sound harsh, but I don't want to read an article with any birdie here being the fallen examples of why you don't want to use a product. 

miss t


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

I know....I would never forgive myself for a bad decision 
The Neofalm products are called "ceramic".....
http://www.neoflam.com/cookware/
I am actually going to contact them with a few questions & see how they respond....

FURTHER INFO

I have just spoken with the Asia/Pacific customer care specialist for the Neoflam products & she was very happy to take my call & talk in detail with me.
She said they get a reasonable amount of calls from bird owners asking about their products & in fact admires them(us) for being so prudent.
She said that their products have been independently tested by a number of testing facilities around the globe & in every case no toxic fumes have been detected. And she was quite firm that there has never been any reports of birds being in any way unwell, or perishing as a result of their products.
Claiming that all the layers & coatings on the pans are natural compounds & not chemical.
She even went as far as saying that they release no toxic fumes if they are burnt well beyond temps that can be produced by cook tops.
She is going to send me their interdependently complied data sheets....I will find a way to post them when I get them....
I am no expert & can not be sure on anything other then her word at this point in time....but it does sound encouraging that these products may well be a safe "non stick" option for the bird world.....

Below is a verbatim copy of the email from Neoflam. The only thing that would not copy across was the diagrams that were in the email.....

Hi Vince,
Thank you for your inquiry.

If you visit our website you will see a tab called Certification. It lists all the testing for toxicity in Neoflam products. ND = not detected - which was the case for lead testing. 

There are no heavy metals in our ceramic coated products https://www.neoflam.com.au/certification

What is Neoflam Ecolon Coating?

Neoflam Ecolon coating is an Eco friendly, ceramic nonstick coating made from natural materials, sand & stone. 100% free of heavy metals and harmful chemicals. Neoflam Ecolon Coating is a healthy alternative to PTFE nonstick coating with non toxic fumes emitted while cooking. The image below shows the aluminum die cast centre of the pan is protected by 2 layers, each ceramic layer is baked at a very high temperature which completely seals the pan with no reports of aluminum leeching.



All certification is supplied by independent testing laboratory’s that use international standards and practices. You can visit the following links of the two companies who supply certification for Neoflam products. You will note some of the testing has been done to German, French and Japanese standards as requested by the importing company.



http://www.sgs.com/en/Life-Sciences/Laboratory-Services.aspx


http://www.ktr.or.kr/eng/

Neoflam is a major international company established in 1991 that design, manufacture and distribute kitchenware to over 60 countries. They are responsible for developing “The Healthy PanTM”, with the innovation of EcolonTM,which is a non stick ceramic coating made of sand, stone and silica. EcolonTM coating is a healthy alternative to PTFE non-stick coatings. It’s friendly to the environment & the human body, as its main ingredients come from Mother Nature. Neoflam products are absolutely FREE of any harmful chemicals, so it keeps family cooking healthy and safe.

I hope the above information has been of assistance – good on you for being thorough.

We hope you enjoy the health benefits of cooking with your Neoflam pans J

Kind Regards, Karyn
Customer Service


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2014)

I am soooo infuriated!!!... that the a-hole of that vet REFUSED to help when your poor birds were dying!! This is why I HATE doctors ... all they care about is PROFIT!!! Welcome to how the world operates!!!!!

These are not REAL doctors... they are narcissistic MONSTERS!!!!!!! Yuck!!! Totally disgusting that they would not even accept payment plan and REFUSED to help in such emergency unless you paid full amount upfront?!?!?! Beyond gross and totally UNACCEPTABLE. I would spit in that MDs face if I ever saw him on the street.

This is so sad, incredibly sorry for the tragedy you just went through.


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## Lady Light (Aug 30, 2014)

i'm still young and don't really know what a teflon pan is but if my mom uses it.. I keep my bird far far away from the kitchen in my bedroom..i think its safe?


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2014)

Lady_Light,

Not if you have any teflon pots and pans... it will travel throughout the entire house faster than you can blink an eye.
Google teflon and see why it's so dangerous. Then double check and make sure you don't have any teflon... if you do... then get rid of it!!

Let your mom know about this tragedy, it is so sad.... I'm sure your mom will understand and take precaution.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2014)

I feel like I should know this by now... but is teflon the ONLY thing I should be worried about when it comes to cookware?

I just want to make sure as long as I do NOT own any teflon... I'm not missing something else that could be as important to avoid?


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## t birdies (Jan 8, 2011)

Juliet said:


> I feel like I should know this by now... but is teflon the ONLY thing I should be worried about when it comes to cookware?
> 
> I just want to make sure as long as I do NOT own any teflon... I'm not missing something else that could be as important to avoid?


Of course, I think it should be noted that telflon (deliberate misspell) is a trademark product. It's really all non-stick products, esp. when you read PFOA or PTFE on the label. I'm personally not comfortable w/ any non-stick product...but these days it's been added to a lot of everyday kitchen items like toasters, coffee & tea makers, rice cookers, etc. Gets difficult sometimes trying to find a nice new product w/o it. Heck, you could buy a non-stick spoon or spatula & set it in a hot skillet & forget...what happens then?

You just want to be mindful of your birds at all times....keep your place well ventilated (w/o exposing your birds to harmful drafts, of course)...(@Lady Light) b/c you live w/ parents...a lot of household cleaning products, air fresheners, scented & unscented candles, and overheating foods can be harsh depending on the food cooked & can let off toxic fumes (although there are sites I've known that sell birdsafe beeswax candles - but seem way too expensive for me). New appliances w/ warnings that said product will burn off a harsh smell upon initial usage...you might want your birdies away from the area at that time, etc.

No short answer to your question. Question is what is there in our homes that AREN'T a potential danger to our birds. We just have to keep that in mind & question everything around your house & what would worst case scenario be...and bird proof their surroundings based on that. 

Remember, our homes aren't the natural environment designed for birds. We have to create a safe place for them, with that in mind - ALWAYS.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2014)

My current pan is a white nonstick pan which I will be getting rid of because it is an awful pan... it warped! The only thing I ever cook is stirfry and spaghetti... I am a vegan and eat most other things raw.

I want to get all cermanic pans which I read are naturally "nonstick"... is this true? As I do NOT use any oils in my diet... not even olive oil.

I will need to complete more due diligence on cookware as I will be buyng new cookware soon...


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## t birdies (Jan 8, 2011)

Juliet said:


> My current pan is a white nonstick pan which I will be getting rid of because it is an awful pan... it warped! The only thing I ever cook is stirfry and spaghetti... I am a vegan and eat most other things raw.
> 
> I want to get all cemanric pans which I read are naturally "nonstick"... is this true? As I do NOT use any oils in my diet... not even olive oil.
> 
> I will need to complete more due diligence on cookware as I will be buyng new cookware soon...


Hi, Juliet.
Very interesting you should mention being vegan-using no oil, etc. I'm vegan also...mainly for health reasons. Use a tiny bit of water to sauté or steam veggies or roast or bake them in the oven. 

I'm from a fat-rich-sugary-salty-Standard American Diet-food-loving family! so my birds have been the main reason I started to cook healthier...& it just saves me money if I buy fresh fruits and vegetables, grains, seeds and nuts and share what's birdsafe with them. 

Which also means I end up avoiding a ton of processed food products (dr.'s orders), I don't need to eat.

We're definitely on the right track. Please post your findings, perhaps in a new thread? (may no longer be relevant to original post.)


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## slugabed (Jul 27, 2014)

That's a bit extreme. Nothing wrong with a little oil; you need some else fat soluble vitamins won't bind!


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## Nimra (Aug 4, 2014)

Yeah I really hate doctors. The reason they take this job to earn a lot of money.


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## Nimra (Aug 4, 2014)

is making something in Teflon pans ok?


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

Nimra...it it contains Teflon, PTFE/PFOA, then using it is playing Russian Roulette with your bird.....
Under ideal heating conditions it may be safe, but if is slightly overheated even for a very short time then the worst may happen very quickly.
Look for alternatives & don't take the chance....its just not worth the suffering for the bird....and the anguish you will experience blaming yourself....


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

How horrible, all those poor babies gone just like that! 

This is one of my nightmares since my family uses Teflon pans, but stainless steel pots. I've been trying to find a good pan for a while now so I'll be looking into some of the ones posted. I have an air purifier so I'm hoping it takes some of the damage away. But Kiwi is in my room upstairs far away from the kitchen, door always closed, with the air purifier running. I tell my family not to go in there and if they do not to leave the door open when they're cooking. Sometimes they do leave it open when cooking and it makes me so mad because they don't get situations like this do happen. Even if I've told them thousands of times. And I can't shell out hundreds of dollars to replace all of the teflon pans, but I can try and get at least one or two. Once my brother decided to make something in the oven, went downstairs, and then left the oven on for 2 hours. Because he has zero common sense. The house smelled like burnt charcoal everywhere but in my room because of the air purifier. I was furious. -.-

I didn't know teflon filled the lungs with fluid. I think it's called pulmonary edema when that happens, or dry drowning. It sounds horrible!


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

Kiwi, sadly the air purifier wont really help at all with toxic fumes, they mainly just remove dust ect, but do keep using it.
This must be a hard situation for you, as it seems you cant really control the use of the teflon....but keep trying to get rid of it.
What you can do as a "help" to stop ambient air entering the room from other parts of the house is positively pressurize your room where the bird/birds are.
This is fairly easy to do if you have a pedestal fan.
Open a window and place it as close as possible to the opening, ideally have the window opening as close as possible to the size of the fan.
Have the fan blowing INTO the room....I stress INTO, or you will have the opposite effect!
Then close the door to the room....
This will create a small positive pressure & help stop any of the ambient air in the house entering your room that may be harmful during cooking.
If you go outside the room and use a piece of tissue paper as a test, you should be able to detect a faint draft coming out the bottom of the door opening....that will let you know that you achieved a positive pressure 
Again this is really only a band-aid because of your situation.
You would really want all of the teflon cookware gone....
Hope this may be of some help....


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2014)

t birdies said:


> Hi, Juliet.
> Very interesting you should mention being vegan-using no oil, etc. I'm vegan also...mainly for health reasons. Use a tiny bit of water to sauté or steam veggies or roast or bake them in the oven.
> 
> I'm from a fat-rich-sugary-salty-Standard American Diet-food-loving family! so my birds have been the main reason I started to cook healthier...& it just saves me money if I buy fresh fruits and vegetables, grains, seeds and nuts and share what's birdsafe with them.
> ...



I give you a virtual high five 

I also stir fry with water, NO oils! They just clog your arteries and cause sickness. I'm on a vegan plant based diet and LOVE it!

I also NEVER eat any processed foods.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2014)

slugabed said:


> That's a bit extreme. Nothing wrong with a little oil; you need some else fat soluble vitamins won't bind!


There is absolutely NOTHING extreme about being on a vegan diet with no added oils. Please read The China Study or How to treat and PREVENT heart disease and get educated. I get my essential omega 3 fats from hemp seeds and also get plenty of protein in my diet. I'm very educated on nutrition and being a vegan with no added oils is anything but extreme LOL.

What is extreme is the American diet... That is what is extreme!!! And how having heart disease, diabetes, cancer, being overweight and auto immune disease has become the norm... and it is because of the unhealthy way majority of the population (especially in the US) eat! 

Eating INTELLIGENTLY and caring about your health is not extreme. Not only is it EASY but tastes great. There is so much ignorance on this topic it is truly disturbing.


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## slugabed (Jul 27, 2014)

Kiwi said:


> And I can't shell out hundreds of dollars to replace all of the teflon pans, but I can try and get at least one or two. Once my brother decided to make something in the oven, went downstairs, and then left the oven on for 2 hours. Because he has zero common sense. The house smelled like burnt charcoal everywhere but in my room because of the air purifier. I was furious. -.-


While there are reasons to bake something for two hours not checking in on it every now and then is not very bright.

Also, I'm curious: Is there really a need for that many pans? A few pots, a pressure cooker, and a trusty cast iron wok just about cook 95% of the food I eat at home. It seems like we have very different cooking cultures!


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## slugabed (Jul 27, 2014)

Juliet said:


> There is absolutely NOTHING extreme about being on a vegan diet with no added oils. Please read The China Study or How to treat and PREVENT heart disease and get educated. I get my essential omega 3 fats from hemp seeds and also get plenty of protein in my diet. I'm very educated on nutrition and being a vegan with no added oils is anything but extreme LOL.
> 
> What is extreme is the American diet... That is what is extreme!!! And how having heart disease, diabetes, cancer, being overweight and auto immune disease has become the norm... and it is because of the unhealthy way majority of the population (especially in the US) eat!
> 
> Eating INTELLIGENTLY and caring about your health is not extreme. Not only is it EASY but tastes great. There is so much ignorance on this topic it is truly disturbing.


I really don't like your tone; try not to assume I follow an American diet.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2014)

slugabed said:


> I really don't like your tone; try not to assume I follow an American diet.


When you post comments claiming eating a diet with no added oils is "extreme"... nuff said!! I think Dr Colin Campbell and Dr Caldwell Esselstyn would have to disagree with you. I will choose to disregard your posts from this point forward so you don't have to worry about "my tone".


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

Vince said:


> Kiwi, sadly the air purifier wont really help at all with toxic fumes, they mainly just remove dust ect, but do keep using it.
> This must be a hard situation for you, as it seems you cant really control the use of the teflon....but keep trying to get rid of it.
> What you can do as a "help" to stop ambient air entering the room from other parts of the house is positively pressurize your room where the bird/birds are.
> This is fairly easy to do if you have a pedestal fan.
> ...


Thank you Vince, I will try and do this, thought I wont be able to for long since it's almost Fall here. Which means temperatures drop to 60F and below. It literally goes from 90F to 60F in a week. It's still around the 70s.. I do have a tiny fan so I'll try and use that.



> While there are reasons to bake something for two hours not checking in on it every now and then is not very bright.
> 
> Also, I'm curious: Is there really a need for that many pans? A few pots, a pressure cooker, and a trusty cast iron wok just about cook 95% of the food I eat at home. It seems like we have very different cooking cultures!


Yes, it was late at night when he made something. He took it out, forgot to turn off the oven. Then he went downstairs and fell asleep. And to think he's now a college student who wanted to live alone. He'd burn down the place. -_-

My dad likes to cook lots of different things so he goes through a lot of pans. I'm trying to use that to my advantage to convince him he needs new pans since some of the pans are scraped. It gets those little black bits of Teflon in things for one of the pans. I don't eat anything out of that pan. I got him to replace the pots so I don't know if he'll be convinced to spend money on new pans. So I'll have to buy some and convince him that non-teflon are the best pans.

He would think cast iron is too much work unfortunately. So that green pan or something similar would have to do.


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## slugabed (Jul 27, 2014)

Kiwi said:


> Yes, it was late at night when he made something. He took it out, forgot to turn off the oven. Then he went downstairs and fell asleep. And to think he's now a college student who wanted to live alone. He'd burn down the place. -_-
> 
> My dad likes to cook lots of different things so he goes through a lot of pans. I'm trying to use that to my advantage to convince him he needs new pans since some of the pans are scraped. It gets those little black bits of Teflon in things for one of the pans. I don't eat anything out of that pan. I got him to replace the pots so I don't know if he'll be convinced to spend money on new pans. So I'll have to buy some and convince him that non-teflon are the best pans.
> 
> He would think cast iron is too much work unfortunately. So that green pan or something similar would have to do.


Yikes! Your family cooks dangerously. First your brother not switching off ovens (that's such a reflex action for me) to using pans with stuff flaking off them.

I don't get it. I've used cast iron all this while. How is it too much work?


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

I know! I'm always the one going around unplugging things and turning things off. Like my mom forgets to unplug the curling iron on a daily basis so I've gotten used to checking the house before I leave. Thankfully we have some appliances that automatically shut off now. You can be as careful as possible, but the people you live with can endanger your 'tiel. Even if you get an apartment... if someone next door does self cleaning on an oven you could come home to a tragedy if your ventilation systems are shared. Or you open the window for some fresh air and the person next door has chemically treated their lawn and the wind blows some into the room. There are so many things you can't control so I'm super cautious. Unfortunately, my family isn't. 

Yeah this is the same brother who closed the door on Kiwi's leg too. I was cleaning her flat perch she'd gotten a dropping on, so Kiwi flew up on the door like she usually does. Then my other little brother came in and started running around, I tried to shoo my little brother out, but he just kept running around singing. I guess my brother found that annoying so he shut my door without checking to see if Kiwi was there. He's like in his own world or something. He never thinks.

It would be the seasoning part. My dad would throw it in the dishwasher or wash it with soap to get rid of germs, then it would take a while to season it in the oven. He wouldn't have the patience for it. He'd most likely say that the other pans would be out of the dishwasher by that point. That or he could be using the oven if the cast iron wasn't in it. The Teflon is totally for convenience for him so it would have to be a non-stick pan.


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## slugabed (Jul 27, 2014)

Kiwi said:


> I know! I'm always the one going around unplugging things and turning things off. Like my mom forgets to unplug the curling iron on a daily basis so I've gotten used to checking the house before I leave. Thankfully we have some appliances that automatically shut off now. You can be as careful as possible, but the people you live with can endanger your 'tiel. Even if you get an apartment... if someone next door does self cleaning on an oven you could come home to a tragedy if your ventilation systems are shared. Or you open the window for some fresh air and the person next door has chemically treated their lawn and the wind blows some into the room. There are so many things you can't control so I'm super cautious. Unfortunately, my family isn't.
> 
> Yeah this is the same brother who closed the door on Kiwi's leg too. I was cleaning her flat perch she'd gotten a dropping on, so Kiwi flew up on the door like she usually does. Then my other little brother came in and started running around, I tried to shoo my little brother out, but he just kept running around singing. I guess my brother found that annoying so he shut my door without checking to see if Kiwi was there. He's like in his own world or something. He never thinks.
> 
> It would be the seasoning part. My dad would throw it in the dishwasher or wash it with soap to get rid of germs, then it would take a while to season it in the oven. He wouldn't have the patience for it. He'd most likely say that the other pans would be out of the dishwasher by that point. That or he could be using the oven if the cast iron wasn't in it. The Teflon is totally for convenience for him so it would have to be a non-stick pan.


:blink: Nevermind birds, there's a distinct lack of safety thinking within your family that could end up with someone getting hurt. Yikes!

Don't toss cast iron stuff in the dishwasher - a simple cleaning with water and a scrub is all that's needed. In fact I only clean it when I mess up and end up with bits of food sticking on it.


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## Kiwi (May 12, 2013)

Tell me about it. I check everything from plugs to the gas stove before I leave. ._.

Does the heat disinfect cast iron then? Just wondering about bacteria if I used it for Kiwi. :?


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## Mezza (Feb 19, 2013)

Late response I know. LOL!  But...we use the BBQ for most of our meat cooking, and that's outside. Saves dirtying the kitchen too. So only the veggies/salads etc are done inside. 

Juliet, it sounds like you have a great knowledge of the Vegan diet - I am not familiar with Vegan. (I am a meatatarian) Lol! Love my meat. In saying that I am a very healthy eater (not a sweet tooth which helps). Anyway, my question is (and yes I am just curious ) what sort of foods do you cook? I presume you would have alot of various recipes. 

Also, you don't use olive oil, is that a medical reason or just what you prefer? Would you use Organic coconut oil if needed?


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2014)

Mezza said:


> Late response I know. LOL!  But...we use the BBQ for most of our meat cooking, and that's outside. Saves dirtying the kitchen too. So only the veggies/salads etc are done inside.
> 
> Juliet, it sounds like you have a great knowledge of the Vegan diet - I am not familiar with Vegan. (I am a meatatarian) Lol! Love my meat. In saying that I am a very healthy eater (not a sweet tooth which helps). Anyway, my question is (and yes I am just curious ) what sort of foods do you cook? I presume you would have alot of various recipes.
> 
> Also, you don't use olive oil, is that a medical reason or just what you prefer? Would you use Organic coconut oil if needed?


I don't use olive oil for health reasons. There is no nutironal value in olive oil... just pure fat that clogs arteries. I highly recommend reading the book "The China Study", "How to treat and PREVENT heart disease" or watch the documentary movie call "Earthlings". It is an eye opener and very educational =)

I eat tons of fruits and veggies and salads until 4 pm and then I eat a cooked high carb dinner (it's called "Raw Till 4") for dinner I cook (potatoes, spaghetti, gluten free no-cheese veggie healthy pizzas, bean burritoes) etc bla bla list is endless really. I enjoy it very much and wish I had gotten into this healthy dietary lifestyle sooner! ... and of course my bird always eats with me.  I got 68 grams of protein today without even trying! I use cronometer.com sometimes just for fun.


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## Mezza (Feb 19, 2013)

Ah ok. I don't like the taste of olive oil or the texture of oil in general - so thats why I was curious. I do use Coconut oil at times though. For salads I love lemon juice squeezed on it. 

I might look at reading that book. I think the idea of raw foods is great as well - I try to eat as much natural food as possible. 

I like to eat with the fids so generally keep my foods super fresh and healthy for them to be able to enjoy dinner with me. I am no angel I do like my cheese. I was always a healthy eater but having the birds just makes you that little more conscious.

Thank you for be so open with my queries.


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## slugabed (Jul 27, 2014)

Kiwi said:


> Tell me about it. I check everything from plugs to the gas stove before I leave. ._.
> 
> Does the heat disinfect cast iron then? Just wondering about bacteria if I used it for Kiwi. :?


It works for me and my then cats, but if you're worried, like I said, a nightly wash after dinner with water and a brush works well enough.


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## Mezza (Feb 19, 2013)

Its also recommended when you clean your cast iron pots / pans to oil them with a little vegetable oil to prevent from rusting.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2014)

I always hear great things about ceramic pots and pans. It looks like I'll be getting ceramic cookware so far...


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## slugabed (Jul 27, 2014)

Mezza said:


> Its also recommended when you clean your cast iron pots / pans to oil them with a little vegetable oil to prevent from rusting.


Ah yes. There's almost always oil in the wok for me, since it's on the stove all the time!


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