# Help Air in crop !



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

Was just palying with the babies and wondered why one of the babies crops looked bigger. Its got air in it !! Do i massage it out? What do i do?


----------



## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

I had to do this once with a small chick. I just massaged it out gently. I started very softly at the bottom/base of the bubble of air and just moved my finger in circular motions as I slowly moved upwards. You can actually feel the air release. Just be gentle and calm.


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

OK this is very strange, im worried. She breathes fills it up and then the crop goes flat. Fills up again then goes down. What could this be?


----------



## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

Hmmm.. well mine had air in the crop from feeding. Not while just breathing.. this might be something for an expert. Hopefully one will be along shortly!


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

I can actually see her opening her beak when she fills the crop with air. First time ive seen this, they are due to be feed in an hour but i dont want to feed her with air in the crop.


----------



## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

I just PMed Srtiels.. we'll see if she can help.


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

Thanks! Ive been googling, seems quite a few posts on it but all different answers. One says shes hungry and fill up with food, another says peptobismol and applesauce. She seems to be taking in air filling her crop then expelling it. She was fine when i fed her 5 hours ago, i didnt notice air in there.


----------



## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

Well Srtiels is usually not offline too long, so hopefully she can answer you. I'm not finding much either for this specific sounding problem.


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

Its really weird, i just checked on her and she was sitting with her crop full of air then she stretched her neck out, beaked her sibling and the air was released, relaxes and the crop fills again. Maybe if i feed her when theres no air it will stop it?


----------



## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

Honestly.. I would really wait to see what Srteils thinks if you can. Don't starve the little guy though.. but see if you can hold off feeding the baby till we get her input.


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Can we see a picture?


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

Its their feeding time so she is hungry, i just thought the food might prevent the air filling up. I will hold off a bit.


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

Let me find the camera


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Well air or not, the baby will need food..my concern is are you overfilling it? I don't know much about crop problems but maybe it is overstretched?


----------



## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

Well if you want to go ahead and feed her.. do the massage and work out the air before you give her the syringe and see how she does. And yes, try to take some pics.


----------



## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

My question would be.. if air is getting in and out that easily (and it shouldn't be).. does this make aspiration a higher risk?


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Could it have a punctured crop?


----------



## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

This is what I'm wondering. I'm thinking of us as humans.. we have our epiglottis that flops back and forth to allow air down one tube and food down the other. If air is going in the wrong place.. is it possible for food to go wrong too? I really have no clue and am just throwing things out here. If she has a puncture, it would seem to make sense that it would be near the top of her crop right?


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

Here they are. I notice on the photo she still has formula from nearly 6 hours ago?


----------



## green parakeet (Oct 20, 2011)

bjknight93 said:


> Could it have a punctured crop?


If this was true wouldn't she be dead by now?


----------



## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

Okay.. I would not feed right now.


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

Shes beaking everyone, im gonna feed her when the air is expelled. Will check back.


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

Dont feed?


----------



## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

If she has old food in her crop, giving her new will cause more issues. I'm going to try and contact Srtiels.


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

green parakeet said:


> If this was true wouldn't she be dead by now?


No, it is repairable by suture along with antibiotics due to the possibilty of food leaking through the puncture wound. Unless very severe, it would not result in immedite death. I believe death with a punctured crop would be caused by infection.


----------



## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

Okay.. Srtiels will be on shortly. She thinks it is a punctured air sac along with slow crop. She's going to check out your pics.


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

OK i tried to feed her but she still has air so i couldnt


----------



## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I wouldn't feed her because the old food needs to be removed first.


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...I spoke to both DyArianna and Jellybean. I downloaded one of the pix, and I will put notes of concern on it. From what I can see there was a toenail puncture that was the cause of the inflation of the crop....and told Jane what to do.

Still waking up so will post more soon.


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

OK thanks everyone !! Ive done as was told and it was very stressful, luckily hubby was here to help. I had to take a needle (actually from my hubbys sugar testing kit) and pierce the crop to release air. We did it twice and massaged the air out. Then she got fed about 6mls with a sprinkle of garlic powder and a little natural yogurt. Shes resting now and i feel exhausted too. Its my understanding this is not life threatning but very scarey..
Im now going to look for srtiels magic potion on her website for slow crop.
Thanks guys for being there for me


----------



## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

I'm very glad you got some help!  Keep us posted on little one!


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Below is an edited pix with notes on it (click for a larger view) The 2nd pix shows the ruptured air sac in the extreme if it is not kept deflated.


Be back in a little bit....


----------



## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

Thank you for the help Srtiels! Greatly appreciated.


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

Im a little worried about the "giardia" I looked at all their legs and they are all the same, they have little pins for the feathers to come in. I presumed that was how they looked. They have started to feather out nicely since we removed them last Friday from the nestbox. Im not sure if the parents plucked their legs, i thought they just plucked their heads and wings. Is that a definate sign of giardia then, should they have all their leg feathers by 32 days?


----------



## mishkaroni (Jan 6, 2012)

I have only experience with two baby cockatiels. My now 3 month and my now 32 day old. I feel like my first born was advanced as all feathers had come in by day 28 and he was actually flying out of the cage by then...little brat. And even tho my 32 day old feels like he's a bit behind, he does have all his feathers, except some pin feathers on his head. I want to lean on that it's not normal for the babies to be bare legged upon hitting a month. I would definitely look into getting them checked out. My parents have been plucking their heads, I haven't seen them pluck elsewhere..


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Well....it seems this clutch of babies have been a learning experience for you. I'm glad the formula change helped the cry baby grey.

OK...a ruptured air sac is not life threatening and easily fixable over a couple days, as explained on the phone. With a clutch of babies it can easily happen if they are climbing on each other the tip of a toenail can nick the crop skin. Once you have deflated the inflation you can give an update.

OK....the other notes on the pix are more a concern with possible yeast. This can happen due to the stress of the previous formula not satisfying them and if not too bad the Spice Remedy will help. BUT, it might be wise to order the powdered Nystatin to have on hand: http://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/medistatin.html 

Keep an eye on the blood veins under the surface of the crop skin. They look normal thickness right now...but if they start to be more noticeable and thicken this could be an indication that they are open to absorbing harmful pathogens (yeast/bacteria from sour crop) thru the vein walls into the bloodstream.

As to the feathering on the legs, this could be from the parents plucking or the signs that there might be a problem with giardia. If so, it could be another reason for fussy cry baby babies, in addition to the crappy formula (til you switched) Even if not giardia sometimes anaerobic bacteria (bacteria that does not need air to thrive) can reside in the GI tract. I keep this on hand, and might be useful to have: http://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/ronivet-s.html The Active ingredient Ronidazole is what also makes this medication act as an antibiotic to anaerobic bacteria.


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

Ive ordered both those products. For now im going to try the spice mix and give it to all the babies. Do i give it on an empty crop before feeding or does it matter? Thanks
Baby still has some slight air in crop but nothing like yesterday, i was able to feed her and later will probably have to prick her again UGhh


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

You can just mix the spice mix into the formula, about 1/4 tsp for the group of babies. Phone when your supplies come in. It will take a day or so of continual deflating, manually with your hands and the pin as backup, before the inflation starts to stay down. 

(((HUGS))) think of them as your little teachers...and how much you learned from them


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

My little teachers lol My brain is numb from too much information !!
The eggs and hatching were my easiest part !!
You were right about them taking off and flying too !! I have 3 flyers and boy is that nerve racking. One minute on the floor playing ,the next minute zooming around the room... Klonk.. I dont know how much more my nerves can take...


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

LOL...and I bet they all take off in different directions. I have found with lutinos when they take their laps of flying they might come flying right at you crying as they fly wanting food. If I was feeding several it was like being bombarded from the air by them


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

I think i might give them the spice mix seperately before feeding? My problem is im not an expert at the mixing and always have a bunch of formula left over from making too much 
Is it alright to put them in a cage now to give them more room. I think they are bored in the brooder. I could wrap a towel around the back to keep heat in. How long do they need 3 inches of bedding? I thought about a cage with newspaper on bottom,easier to clean or is that a no no ?


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

Another question, Do i store premade spice mix in fridge or room temperature? Thanks


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

*My problem is im not an expert at the mixing and always have a bunch of formula left over from making too much *

First off never re-use any formula. Even if stored in the frig it can absorb bacteria.

There is an easy remedy to not mixing excess formula.

1...First you start with knowing how much you will feed each bird. For example if you are feeding 8cc per feeding, and have 5 babies you will be mixing 40cc of formula. 

3..Next use your syringe to suck up 40cc of hot water into your mixing cup, and mix in the dried formula to the baby food consistency.

3...Use a thermometer to check the temps, which ideally can range from 104-106 degrees.

To keep the formula warm place it in a pan of warm water. You can also swish excess formula on the tip of syringe in the water so that it is clean, which helps with cleaner faces on the babies.


----------



## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

You can store the mixed Spice Remedy at room temp. Throw away after 2 months. if needed with a future clutch mix fresh.


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

Oh i never reuse the formula so wasted quite a bit. Thanks for the tips!


----------



## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

So how are the precious little ones doing today? I hope things are going well!


----------



## jellybean (Mar 20, 2011)

Whew thanks for asking !! Its certainly a full time job !! The baby with the air is doing fine although i did notice her a bit bloated tonight. I will keep an eye out and see if we need to prick her again. (or rather hubby does it and me with my eyes clenched shut !)
On another note after talking to srtiels the babies might have giardia, which would be the cause of cry baby hunger and the shabby feathers. I have ordered medicine so hope that it will help. Its so worrisome being a mom to birds, i can read my kids like a book but birds....
Good thing is they are flying (pretty darn scarey) and nibbling on millet,seeds and pellets. This is a total learning experience for all of us, its all been amazing!!


----------



## DyArianna (Aug 7, 2011)

Well we are keeping our fingers crossed for you guys! Keep us updated!


----------

