# Foot Tapping/Thumping at night or early morning



## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

Hi
Firstly I am new to the group & would like to thank everyone for the opportunity to be a part of the forum. I live in North Queensland Australia....
I have a 2yo female hen that has always seemed otherwise healthy, but has developed a strange problem in the last few weeks.
I have taken her to our local vet, but I don't think she has a great deal of experience in birds/cockatiels. She could not give me any answers 
What has been happening is she will sometimes be tapping, or flicking her foot up & down when I get her from her cage in the morning. It is always her left foot & it seems to be an involuntary movement...it does annoy her a bit when it happens & she will nibble at it trying to make it stop. After about half an hour it will slowly stop & she is all good again...
I keep a monitor near her during the night to help alert us to any night frights, last night at about 4.00am I could her her tapping her foot so much it was starting to rattle the cage...so I got her up until it settled down.
This was the first time it had happened for about the last week an half...I had thought it may have gone....but sadly no.
By the way her perch during the night is a comfy rope about an inch & a half in diameter....the proper ones you get from pet shops.
Other than this problem she seems to be healthy, & very loving & happy.
She has a good diet of a combination of Avian Science Cockatiel Mix & Roudybush Pellets. Plus fresh corn, bok choy, silverbeet, broccoli ect daily.
Any help would be sincerely appreciated as it is starting to worry me quite a bit...
Many thanks in advance....


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

Hi. Welcome to the forum. I've read two possible causes of toe tapping. One is that it can actually be mites- although I will say I don't think mites are that common for indoor birds. One way to see if it could be mites is to put a paper towel on the bottom of the cage at night and see if there are little spots in the morning. If it is mites, they should be treated by a vet though and not over the counter meds and sprays which can be dangerous. I've also read that it can be a vitamin deficiency. Although your tiel's diet seems good. And I'm not sure what vitamins actually. Hopefully srtiels, one of our members, will see this post and comment. She's very knowledgeable on health and diet, etc.


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## Scribbles (Jun 28, 2012)

Vince - where abouts in North Queensland are you? I live in North Queensland too!


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

Thank you Sunnysmom....your thoughts on vitamins & mites is interesting because the vet I took Cheekee to gave her a multi-vitamin injection because she was unsure about it all. That was about two weeks ago and I had not seen the stomping again till last night...
But its weird that we only ever see this in the morning...so that could indicate mites if they were giving her problems while she was still/sleeping.
Its all very strange :/
I hope Srtiels can shed some light on it all...
I am in Innisfail Scribbles!!!
Where are you?


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

I have an update for those who may have bird experiencing this issue...
I was surprised how many other people have had similar issues & have been looking for answers on the web as well... 
After a good search I found a very experienced & dedicated Avain Vet who has seen this a number of times. (the first few I saw had no real idea & were totally guessing)
The vet was literally a couple of thousand kilometers away so I sent him videos & a good deal of pictures & detailed history of the bird.
Although he could not examine in person he was very confident of his diagnosis....but I guess a little time will tell.
He believes Cheekee will have a small fracture in her pelvis leading to inflammation of the sciatic nerve....this will cause the bird altered or tingling sensations in the foot & leg....especially when still for long periods of time like sleeping.
He said he sees about 2 cases a week with cockaties presenting with this...
Apparently it far more common with females who will usually have impaired bone structure because of excess estrogen from continual reproductive activity, they don't absorb calcium well, leading to osteopaenia. (apparently they dont need to be laying to have this happen either).
Plus it more prone in clipped birds due to harder landings...
Cheekee is a female, & clipped, & had a hard fall a few weeks ago when she was startled and glanced a cupboard on the way down...so she was all out of shape when she landed heavily.
So it all fits into what he thinks is wrong....
The treatment is anti-inflammatories for a week & calcium supplements to improve bone density...
Plus careful daylight exposure(ie limiting the time she awake) & supplying food in limited quantities to help curb reproductive activity. If they have a seemingly endless supply of food they think they are good to lay/breed.
I hope this info helps others who have been seeking answers to this one..

Oh, by the way I dont claim to have any real experience in cockatiels & their health....
I have only had cheekee for 2 years & do my best to take good care of her.
I am only passing this on for the possible benefit of others who may be at a loss for an answer as I was....


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

OK...The following is a copy of an old posting and my experiences with this. And this is a link to the page with a lot of info....
http://www.holisticbird.org/pages/hmites.htm
--------------------------------
Susanne

toe-tapping cockatiels

I recently found out that if a bird has tapeworms it will trigger this syndrome. Usually within a few days of treatment (allopathic only) the toe tapping disappears.

I'm working on a study of parasites and how they effect birds. (in progress now) For years I have been telling my vet I have a worm/parasite problem...and bottomline he has been blowing me off and saying cockatiels don't get worm infestations. WRONG. The medical books *Do Not* list cockatiels as prone to tapeworms. 

Yet this has been an on again off again problem I have had that has created slow crop or crop stasis in handfeed babies to birds that were having occasional vitamin A deficiencies. 

Parasites cause intestinal mucosal lesions which can interfere with the birds ability to convert carotene pigments into functional vit. A) (Also vitamin K is found in the intestinal flora, which parasites hinder absorption, thus bleeders and anemia) Parasites also cause secondary bacterial infections...which if a bird *is Not* suspected of a parasite problem....then the bacterial problem may be corrected with antibiotics...BUT the parasitic problem is still there.

Thus chronic problems such as respiratory...to neurological problems...etc. When a secondary bacterial infection is present the body has an additional need for vitamin A and also ascorbic acid. Parasite infestations also have a need for additional vitamin A and also vitamin K.

Toe-tapping, can last anywhere from 3 days to up to a week and the bird is miserable, then it will taper off and disappear. For years I could not figure out the cause until recently when I did the various groups of babies for worming...and finally identified the problem as tapeworms. 

The garlic and other meds had only intensified the problem on the first group of 100+ babies I was handfeeding. When the tapeworm *overload* in the GI tract became bad the toe-tapping started, some had symptoms that mimicked lock-jaw, some got real bad respiratory problems with wet and snotty sinuses, some developed ascites, and droppings that *Looked* like liver problems and/or a heavy bacterial infection, some had blockages that created slow crop...and numerous other problems...plus babies that were literally going thin and attacking to be fed and always crying!!!....what a nightmare!

I kept notes of various physical symptoms of the first group...which I switched over to Droncit on the treatment of the 100+ babies...and miraculously within 1-4 days ALL of these symptoms of other problems disappeared!

I am now doing another group of 87 babies, and in 2 weeks another group of 50+ babies and monitoring what to watch for that can become problematic to a small percentage of babies...and how to *quickly* resolve the problem. I just gave my notes to another breeder that is worming 50+ babies and she will also be keeping notes for comparison from my observations/notes.

Thanks for the offer of the Paratox...I can try it on a group to see how it does and let you know.

Susanne


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## Scribbles (Jun 28, 2012)

Vince said:


> I am in Innisfail Scribbles!!!
> Where are you?


Bit late Vince. But I'm in Ingham ha ha.


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

Innisfails sister town!


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

Thank you so much for the information srtiels....it is really appreciated.
Cheekee's foot tapping may yet turn out to be an environmental one....rather than an injury or disease.
I will wait a week or so to be sure before I post what I have found in case it turns out to be coincidental, but after setting up a night vision camera on her cage and recording all night I am pretty sure I have found the problem...


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

Well after a week of not seeing the foot tapping at all....I am confident I have found the problem.
Mosquitoes!!!
Mozzies have been biting Cheekee on the feet...particularly the left one...as she tucks the right up into her body.
This is why I have only been seeing it during the night, and early morning....
I have been placing a proper protective mosquito net over her cage every night....and she is going great. And a lot less irritable during the day I might add...she must have been getting poor sleep from all the itching 

Here is a link to a video clip of how she was presenting with the foot tapping...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgmr1zFsb9I&feature=youtu.be

As mentioned the vets thought this may have been quite a serious problem, as it does look exactly like what can be a number of other serious & life threatening health problems. I am not suggesting for one moment if you see your Tiel doing this to think it is just mozzie bites. But if your vet is struggling to come up with an answer, and you live in an area that is affected by mosquitoes, then it may be something to consider...

The mozzie net is cheap, simple & safe....so there is nothing to loose...


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## crafti142 (Dec 27, 2013)

I am so glad you have found the answer, it must have been a frustrating time for you. Glad alls well that ends well.


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks Crafti!
Yes we are now both sleeping very well...lol
It was starting to get very frustrating & worrying that is for sure.
Nothing like hearing, brain tumors, brain damage, heavy metal poisoning or crushed pelvis to keep the anxiety at the max.... 
Now we just have to live off 3min noodles for the next month to pay off the vet bills


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## SoCalTiels (Oct 8, 2013)

I am so happy to hear that you found a solution for your bird that wasn't a serious health problem! Even just hearing all the possibilities would be terrifying, and you did a great job discovering what the cause of the problem is. I'm glad everything seems to be going well now. And hey, drain the noodles after you cook them, throw them in a pan with some veggies and throw on like soy sauce/peanut sauce, and bam, delicious stir fry for with ramen noodles, lol.


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## sunnysmom (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm glad it wasn't a serious health problem!


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