# Toby: Male or Female



## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

I'm writing down here all the info about why I think he is a male, or not. All the behaviors, sounds, and other things I've noticed him/her doing the past two weeks. I have included links to videos below as examples of certain behaviors. If you have the time, or are knowlegable in this area, please give me your input. Thanks  (Btw, Toby is around two months old)

First off, when I went to the breeder, I asked if he had any males. He said since they are heavily pied (which you can tell by my avatar he is) and since they are so young anyway it's impossible to sex visually. BUT, he said, he believed Toby was a male, because he said he had already started whistling. Not a wolf whistling, just whistling (still not sure what he meant by that). The other baby tiel he had for sale had not whistled at all. So I made a deposit on Toby, because I so wanted the one that he thought was male. Also, I trusted his opinion, because he has been breeding tiels for 20 years. 
Okay, so I get Toby home. Of course he is quiet for a few days, while he adjusts. When he did start making noise, it was a low pitched chirp (a sound I have read that all cockatiel babies make). Once he accepted me as his flock member, I showed him a mirror. He whistled, and tried to attack the mirror, while flapping his wings in a state of territorial agression. Here is the link of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHs_tJCdaYQ (He does a little whistle at 0:52) And another where he bangs his beak on the glass, and does what may or may not be heart wings (he also does a little whistle at 0:15, not sure if it was whistling or just chirping): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfbasTkxcAM

In the past few days, he has become more vocal, whistling more. He also does a lot of what I THINK are heart wings, but I'm just not sure!! I just don't know if it is indeed heart wings or if he is just stretching. 
Last of all.....I just took a video today of Toby head-bobbing vigorously. I know that baby tiels do this when they want to be fed, but Toby had just eaten before I took this video, and I have seen him do his "feed me" bob before, and it is different than this head-bob. Here is the link of the head-bobbing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sEtmfDpim4 (The whistling is me, sorry it is so loud! If you can bear with the loud whistling, and if you listen closely, you can hear the chirping sound I was talking about that he makes most of the time when I interact with him. If you could look at all these videos, and tell me what you think, I would appreciate it SO much. 

**Anyone's opinion would be appreciated. I honestly have no idea if Toby is male or female. From the research I've done on here, I have learned that many male cockatiels do not start whistling or talking until anywhere from 4-6 months old. Sarah said her Cupid did not do his first wolf-whistle until four months. Thank you all so much for your time in reading this, and for taking the time to help me solve this mystery


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

Oh yeah, and here's another video where he whistles, and where I THINK he may have done heart wings but I'm not sure. Please watch the whole thing, and tell me if he did heart wings or not. Thanks!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfbasTkxcAM


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

First video
Territorial wing spreading and balancing
Second video
Head bobbing(male behavior),Stretching(not heart wings))
But i have seen Ari head bob a little when she is curious.


How old is Toby?

*EDIT* i just watched another video of Toby taking. Boy for sure!


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

He is a little older than two months  
I would say ten weeks


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

[\QUOTE]*EDIT* i just watched another video of Toby taking. Boy for sure![/QUOTE]

Which video do you mean? Can you post the link of the video you're talking about? Woo-hoo! Somebody agrees boy!!!


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

Whoops, i guess it was a different poster's video but it was on your page because you liked it.

Has Toby done any beak tapping or singing?


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

Awwww  

Well on the first video I posted (the first link) he whistles at 0:51. Can you check that out and listen and tell me what you think? That's the whistle he makes when he hears other cockatiels


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

That's normal cockatiel whistling. 

Does he do any of the things i questioned?


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## vampiric_conure (Jul 8, 2012)

I would say he or she is still too young to tell if they're male or female. Usually the heart wings and singing don't start until the baby is 6-9 months of age. 

Whatever he or she is, you have a very cute bird!

Edit to say: More experienced folks have already concluded you have a male. I would trust them , LOL. I tend to wait for the baby to get older.


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

No...I have seen any beak banging. Except for when I showed him a mirror. He started beak banging it. Singing..no not yet  I know this sounds bad, but if he turns out to be a she I'll be so disappointed....I wanted a male tiel for weeks, and I literally spent my last check on him (or her) and supplies. I sadly got laid off a week after getting him. I love Toby, he's really sweet, and smart, but I was just so looking forward to him being able to whistle tunes, like the Andy Griffith theme (RIP) or the Adams Family, or anything like that. The breeder told me he believed he was a male because he had started whistling. Obviously, visually sexing is impossible, but this breeder had been doing it for 20 years, and basically I thought "If he believes it's a male, it probably is" seeing as he has so much experience. 
Then again, Toby still is a baby. I've heard of stories of male (definate DNA tested males) that didn't sing, whistle, or anything until around four months old. I'm hoping this is the case. I'm having a blood DNA collection kit being sent, so we'll see


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

vampiric_conure said:


> I would say he or she is still too young to tell if they're male or female. Usually the heart wings and singing don't start until the baby is 6-9 months of age.
> 
> Whatever he or she is, you have a very cute bird!


Thank you very much. No matter what gender it is, he is adorable, and loves being with me. It took two weeks, but he's accepted me as his flock member, finally. He has even mastered stick-training. I was so proud. =)


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

WendyBeoBuddy said:


> First video
> Territorial wing spreading and balancing
> Second video
> Head bobbing(male behavior),Stretching(not heart wings))
> ...


 Toby head bobs a LOT, very frequently  I didn't even know that was a male behavior


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

You have to put into key that pieds are VERY difficult to sex. you still have a couple months before he starts showing male behaviors anyway.
And you are right about quiet males. even if Toby is male he could be a quiet male.
Wendy is a pearl pied. the only reason we know Wendy is male is because of a SINGLE black feather. before that solid feather we thought that s'he' was a VERY mutation confused cockatiel not having any pearls whatsoever but still having pearl tail feathers.
Retaining feathers from when s'he' was a baby. it's still hard for me to say HE when talking about Wendy because s'he' has been my girl for three years before we discovered her being male. Wendy still does not exhibit any male behavior or sing.


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

WendyBeoBuddy said:


> You have to put into key that pieds are VERY difficult to sex. you still have a couple months before he starts showing male behaviors anyway.
> And you are right about quiet males. even if Toby is male he could be a quiet male.
> Wendy is a pearl pied. the only reason we know Wendy is male is because of a SINGLE black feather. before that solid feather we thought that s'he' was a VERY mutation confused cockatiel not having any pearls whatsoever but still having pearl tail feathers.
> Retaining feathers from when s'he' was a baby. it's still hard for me to say HE when talking about Wendy because s'he' has been my girl for three years before we discovered her being male. Wendy still does not exhibit any male behavior or sing.


And you're sure Wendy is a male? Because three years with no singing for a male seems like a long time to me! Luckily if Toby is female, the name isn't to boyish, lol


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

Also if you want to make sure that you get a baby that is male, go to a breeder that has a pair of birds with the father being sex linked and the mother not.
(such as Father pearl and mother ng or even wf) But NOT split, full.
Or even if the father is lutino, as long as the mother is not lutino then if you pick a baby that's not lutino it's guaranteed to be male because ALL females will be lutino/pearl(whatever the father was that had a sex linked mutation)


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

becca21 said:


> And you're sure Wendy is a male? Because three years with no singing for a male seems like a long time to me! Luckily if Toby is female, the name isn't to boyish, lol


Wendy is a quiet male. Wendy has male pearl tail feathers and only two female pearl tail feathers. To many solid tail feathers to even guess it *may* be female.


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

Thank you for your help  I will just keep my fingers crossed, and hope that Toby is indeed male, and just needs a couple more months to learn. DallyTsuka said her male Cupid didn't start singing till four months, so maybe that is the case here too =) I'm gonna go spend some time with Toby right now, be back later


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

Spend tons of time with him! if he is actually female, there are some talented females out there! i had a friend with a blood tested female(i watched her open the results!) who talked! just like a boy, not hermaphrodite, full out female!


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

Wow that's awesome! Toby has become more vocal the past few days. More whistling, less low pitched quiet chirping. And am I completely wrong when I say that Toby's behavior in front of the mirror (the first link I posted) seemed male? I mean, he beak-banged the glass, and he spread his wings as a sign of territorial agression. It just doesn't seem as though a female would be quite as agressive upon seein a mirror. But maybe I'm wrong, idk


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

WendyBeoBuddy said:


> Spend tons of time with him! if he is actually female, there are some talented females out there! i had a friend with a blood tested female(i watched her open the results!) who talked! just like a boy, not hermaphrodite, full out female!


And that is AWESOME by the way. Your friend is very lucky. It's extremely rare for a female tiel to be that talented


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

Females can be aggressive towards other tiels as well. especially if they grow up as only tiels or think they are 'alpha tiel' lol but yes, i have had Ari attack a mirror of herself.


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

I'm just wondering what sounds your boys made before they started singing and whistling tunes. If anyone has videos of the noises they made before this, I'd love to watch them, so I could compare them to my own 2 month old tiels sounds and behaviors


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Two of my males were already whistling when we got them (both were two months old) while my pearl male Fuzzy was very quiet (I thought he was a girl.) He would sit on my shoulder and "whisper" in my ear is what I called it. But I don't have any videos of it.


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## lperry82 (Aug 2, 2010)

I have one of my cookie when he was 5 months old 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ3sZlWlQ7s&list=UU42BzfI16v2Xr4dkCj0xuyQ&index=6&feature=plcp


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

*Male head bobbing?*

Toby does a lot of bobbing in this video. I know young tiels do this when they want to be fed, but he had just eaten before this video was taken. The whistling is me, sorry it's so loud, but if you ignore my whistling, you can hear Toby making these chirping noises, the noises he makes most of the time. Sometimes he will be louder, and he has become more vocal lately. I heard somewhere that head-bobbing was male behavior. So if you could check this video out I would appreciate it  He's really cute either way ^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sEtmfDpim4&feature=youtu.be


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

lperry82 said:


> I have one of my cookie when he was 5 months old
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ3sZlWlQ7s&list=UU42BzfI16v2Xr4dkCj0xuyQ&index=6&feature=plcp


What a beautiful voice he has


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

*Here is all the info on Toby's behaviors. Does it seem male?*



roxy culver said:


> Two of my males were already whistling when we got them (both were two months old) while my pearl male Fuzzy was very quiet (I thought he was a girl.) He would sit on my shoulder and "whisper" in my ear is what I called it. But I don't have any videos of it.


Here is the deal with my Toby. All the info about why I think he is male, or not. (Btw, Toby is around two months old)

First off, when I went to the breeder, I asked if he had any males. He said since they are heavily pied (which you can tell by my avatar he is) and since they are so young anyway it's impossible to sex visually. BUT, he said, he believed Toby was a male, because he said he had already started whistling. Not a wolf whistling, just whistling (still not sure what he meant by that). The other baby tiel he had for sale had not whistled at all. So I made a deposit on Toby, because I so wanted the one that he thought was male. Also, I trusted his opinion, because he has been breeding tiels for 20 years. 
Okay, so I get Toby home. Of course he is quiet for a few days, while he adjusts. When he did start making noise, it was a low pitched chirp (a sound I have read that all cockatiel babies make). Once he accepted me as his flock member, I showed him a mirror. He whistled, and tried to attack the mirror, while flapping his wings in a state of territorial agression. Here is the link of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHs_tJCdaYQ (He does a little whistle at 0:52) And another where he bangs his beak on the glass, and does what may or may not be heart wings (he also does a little whistle at 0:15, not sure if it was whistling or just chirping): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfbasTkxcAM

In the past few days, he has become more vocal, whistling more. He also does a lot of what I THINK are heart wings, but I'm just not sure!! I just don't know if it is indeed heart wings or if he is just stretching. 
Last of all.....I just took a video today of Toby head-bobbing vigorously. I know that baby tiels do this when they want to be fed, but Toby had just eaten before I took this video, and I have seen him do his "feed me" bob before, and it is different than this head-bob. Here is the link of the head-bobbing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sEtmfDpim4 (The whistling is me, sorry it is so loud! If you can bear with the loud whistling, and if you listen closely, you can hear the chirping sound I was talking about that he makes most of the time when I interact with him. If you could look at all these videos, and tell me what you think, I would appreciate it SO much. 

**Anyone's opinion would be appreciated. I honestly have no idea if Toby is male or female. From the research I've done on here, I have learned that many male cockatiels do not start whistling or talking until anywhere from 4-6 months old. Sarah said her Cupid did not do his first wolf-whistle until four months. Thank you all so much for your time in reading this, and for taking the time to help me solve this mystery


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

I would say because hes also making that static noise, which is done by baby tiels when they want handfed and then recently weaned tiels can also make the noise for attention, that the head bobbing in your video is a young bird thing. Toby is adorable by the way

I have a video of when my male was young and he is beak banging and then starts head bobbing towards the end, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRY5QTUg_HA. Honestly though he doesnt head bob very often.


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

he is not whistling or chirping, he is begging to be fed, he may have regressed and needs to be handfed again... thats the sound of a begging bird, not whistling.

i think he is too young to tell and you will have to wait. 


why do you want a male so bad?


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

DallyTsuka said:


> he is not whistling or chirping, he is begging to be fed, he may have regressed and needs to be handfed again... thats the sound of a begging bird, not whistling.
> 
> i think he is too young to tell and you will have to wait.
> 
> ...


Well I just really wanted a cockatiel that could mimic songs. Like whistling the Andy Grifith theme, or such. I don't care too much about talking, but I think the abilities of male tiels are amazing. I just really wanted my first tiel to be a male, so I could teach him songs to whistle and all that  From what I've read the females rarely ever learn to whistle songs. Idk, it's just that I really wanted a male =/


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

well, i am sure you will love toby all the same even if he or she ends up female. 


i wanted a male at first myself. i was worried about egg binding with females. but dally ended up being female and well, it didnt matter to me because i loved her lol. now i have a male and i still prefer females now. i love tsuka, dont get me wrong, but males are moody!! theyre more aggressive if theyre hormonal too lol and not all males sing... tsuka fails at that, and hes male. but he talks but doesnt whistle well. fingers crossed, but im sure you will be happy either way.


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

DallyTsuka said:


> well, i am sure you will love toby all the same even if he or she ends up female.
> 
> 
> i wanted a male at first myself. i was worried about egg binding with females. but dally ended up being female and well, it didnt matter to me because i loved her lol. now i have a male and i still prefer females now. i love tsuka, dont get me wrong, but males are moody!! theyre more aggressive if theyre hormonal too lol and not all males sing... tsuka fails at that, and hes male. but he talks but doesnt whistle well. fingers crossed, but im sure you will be happy either way.


All I know is, I love the heck out of my little man(or girl) If he does turn out to be a she, I will just go ahead and get her a DNA proven male mate =) I'm sure she would like that. And about the egg-binding, that was another reason I didn't want a female. I was really worried about that as well


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## MeanneyFids (Aug 24, 2010)

ive had 2 female birds lay an egg each, no egg binding (knock on wood!) egg laying is pretty easy to prevent 


so this thread because i am merging things is going to be a tad disorganized, but its all here almost.


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

Thanks again Dally


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

vampiric_conure said:


> I would say he or she is still too young to tell if they're male or female. Usually the heart wings and singing don't start until the baby is 6-9 months of age.
> 
> Whatever he or she is, you have a very cute bird!
> 
> Edit to say: More experienced folks have already concluded you have a male. I would trust them , LOL. I tend to wait for the baby to get older.


Thanks Conure. You're right. If more experienced folks think Toby is male, I should trust their judgement  Can I ask which folks you're talking about?


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## JaimeS (Nov 28, 2011)

I think you have a good plan. I know you are excited to see what gender Toby is. Hopefully you will get results back quickly!


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## anthrogirl80 (Jun 2, 2012)

This was the first 'test' I tried with Kevin and he responded exactly how Toby responded.
Later came wolf-whistling (mimic) and then beak banging. He's around 17 weeks old, started the whistling around 14 weeks, and beak banging around 15 weeks.


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

anthrogirl80 said:


> This was the first 'test' I tried with Kevin and he responded exactly how Toby responded.
> Later came wolf-whistling (mimic) and then beak banging. He's around 17 weeks old, started the whistling around 14 weeks, and beak banging around 15 weeks.


Anthro, which test are you talking about?


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

I think she means the mirror..lol


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## anthrogirl80 (Jun 2, 2012)

lol yes sorry, I did mean the mirror test. I was convinced that Kevin was a girl right up until after the DNA test, on the ride home, when he let out three perfect wolf-whistles. Honestly, I felt like slamming my head against the steering wheel. He couldn't have done that an hour earlier BEFORE I forked over the $60 for the test?  lol


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

anthrogirl80 said:


> lol yes sorry, I did mean the mirror test. I was convinced that Kevin was a girl right up until after the DNA test, on the ride home, when he let out three perfect wolf-whistles. Honestly, I felt like slamming my head against the steering wheel. He couldn't have done that an hour earlier BEFORE I forked over the $60 for the test?  lol


LOL that is hilarious! Jaime said his tiel did exactly the same thing, he wolf whistled literally right after he read the results. I'm having a DNA test collection kit being sent to my home, so I should know for sure in about a week. Luckily it will only cost me $20 

It gives me hope though that your Kevin reacted exactly the same way in front of the mirror as my Toby ^^


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

Hey all, I just wanted to say that tonight, before I put Toby to bed, I was feeding him from my hand. Well eventually he had had enough, and got restless, so I started singing to him. He started head bobbing (real bobbing this time) and whistled back!! And he kept climbing up my arm and kept bobbing the whole time! He whistled more than I have ever heard him whistle before =) I'm starting to really think I have a boy here!!


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Its a high possibility...head banging (not bobbing) is a sure sign of male and trust me you'll know it when you see it. You'll think you have a wood pecker in your house!


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## WendyBeoBuddy (Dec 12, 2011)

Woodpecker for sure! singerboy beak bangs his cage bars, and when he is out, he beak bangs the wall! sometimes it's so loud that i think he is going to have serious brain damage LOL


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## enigma731 (Aug 12, 2011)

My male has never done beak banging as far as I can tell. He also can't talk or mimic songs, so it's definitely not a given.


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## Sweetcheek (May 21, 2012)

I have a video of my 10.5week old male, Loki, whistling. It is audio only, paired to pictures because the video was shocking- bad light and grainy.

Here is the link.


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## becca21 (Jul 4, 2012)

*Toby did a little wolf whistle!!! *



Sweetcheek said:


> I have a video of my 10.5week old male, Loki, whistling. It is audio only, paired to pictures because the video was shocking- bad light and grainy.
> 
> Here is the link.


This morning when I uncovered Toby's cage, he did a half-baked wolf whistle  It wasn't great, but it sounded just like your Loki when he did a wolf whistle. I was so shocked I jumped up and was so happy! He just did it once, but still, it was definately not a typical cockatiel whistle, it was a mimic of my whistling!!

If he does it again, looks like I won't need the dna test ^^


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

It may take him a while...I have found that my male's like to practice their whistles before doing them for me. Perfectionists, I swear!


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## DesertDweller (Oct 8, 2011)

My lutino whitefaced, Misty, started talking when he was 3 weeks old. I got him at 2 weeks of age. All of my birds - both male and female - talk very young. I handfed them all and repeat the same words over and over and over to them while handling them. They then learn my 'song'. But Misty didn't do any heartwings or beak-banging until he was 7 months old. Those are behaviors related to hormonal changes.

What I'd recommend to you is that you select a word or simple phrase that you'd like Toby to learn and repeat it to him all the time. Try to say only that training word or phrase to him and avoid saying other things to him as much as possible - just for a few weeks. Baby birds find plosive words easiest to mimic, such as 'baby' or 'baby bird'. Also, it helps to sound excited when you say these words to him. If Toby is a boy, he should pick up the training word within a week or two. 

I also find that my birds love to mimic the sound of kissing. It's real easy for them to make that big smooching sound, and you can count that as a 'word' that they've learned, too.

You can also get Toby DNA tested for gender. I had my sun conure and one of my Indian Ringnecks tested, but since Misty talked so well so early, I didn't need to test him, LOL. Then later when he started doing the beak banging and heartwings it was beyond obvious what gender he is.


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## anthrogirl80 (Jun 2, 2012)

Kevin is extremely untalented at whistling. Even his wolf-whistle is out of tune! lol I keep waiting for him to get bet...but he just doesn't!


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## Ghosth (Jun 25, 2012)

I sat down yesterday and really listened (or tried to) to what Cara was saying when he was sounding like a drunken chicken.

Hi Cara, Pretty Cara, and Cara talk are I think what I'm hearing the most.

Beca I hope your boy turns out to be a boy, but no matter what sex I'm sure you'll love it.


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