# Finally got back with some info to me!



## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

So I took in Jersey and Patience, apparently not really knowing what to expect so I asked the lady I got them from what to expect. Here is her reply:

1. they will breed any time of the year. 2. they were in a huge cage with other tiels until they started pairing off and were then put in smaller cages. they easily bred in the small cages which were 30" long, 18" tall, 18" deep with dividers which made their space 15" wide. the nest box was then hung on the door on the outside. they also bred in an outside aviary as i put my birds outside june til sept. 3. if you want to co-parent or just pull them for hand-rearing, start between 2-3 weeks of age. you will also have to hand feed the youngest if there is a big difference in size to the largest so it can keep up in growth otherwise itll starve or get crushed. again, heres the list of their menu that i had excellent results with:
*avian choice cockatiel seed * oat groats * prime (vitamins)
*zupreem fruit cockatiel pellets * quiko classic egg food * oyster shell
*kaytee grassland foraging for cockatiels * millet spray * charcoal
alot of variety triggers breeding behavior and giving them their nest box. they always lay 4 eggs and hatch 3-4. i would let them have 2 clutches then take the nest box away for 2-3 months to give them a break, then give it back. i also used wood shavings in the box (not cedar or pine!)


So I'm feeling more confident in breeding them knowing their past breedings...Like how many eggs to expect on average, what they were fed, but I probably will only let them have 2 clutches a year since I see that's best for their health. I plan to co-parent for the most part then when they're about 6 weeks old (or if I see they're not feeding them) pull them and wean them at 8 weeks. =] Those would make for healthy tiels. lol

So, question, is there anything that is missing from their diet? I want to make sure they're really getting everything they need.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Veggies, they need some veggies in their diet. And nix the vitamins...whatever that "prime" stuff is. Since they are getting pellets they are already receiving vitamins and the extra vitamins could lead to an overdose. Other than that it looks good.


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## Renae (Feb 9, 2008)

Sprouts are really good, very beneficial: How to sprout and _Sprouting_ For Healthier _Birds_


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Be cautious about using oyster shell (grit) when there are tiny babies in the nest. I tend to be a pro-grit person but you have to choose your timing well. I met someone on another board who lost an entire clutch of cockatiel chicks because the parents fed them grit and impacted their crops.

It's usually recommended to have no more than two clutches in a consecutive 12-month period. It sounds like this pair has been doing more like 4 clutches per year.


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

Yeah, that's why I was saying I wanted to be sure that they knew not to lay again for a while, (as in only when I provide a nest box) because I don't want to hurt them!

So the charcoal is ok to keep in even after the chicks have hatched??? Charcoal seems like something odd to feed birds, in my opinion and was wondering if it was really necessary? And then with the grit being bad for the chicks should I still offer it while they're mating and incubating the eggs and just take it away when they begin to hatch or should I just not even give it to them at all?


Does the amount of eggs sound right? Or could it be from these people over-breeding them that they lay so few? I know all tiels are different in this department, I just want to learn everything I can so I don't hurt them or the chicks they have! I really appreciate your guy's help! More than you'll ever know!


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## cknauf (Aug 27, 2012)

dshiro2012 said:


> So the charcoal is ok to keep in even after the chicks have hatched??? Charcoal seems like something odd to feed birds, in my opinion and was wondering if it was really necessary? And then with the grit being bad for the chicks should I still offer it while they're mating and incubating the eggs and just take it away when they begin to hatch or should I just not even give it to them at all?


Wild birds have been observed chewing on and consuming burnt trees (aka charcoal), which is why charcoal is sometimes suggested. tielfan would know better the whys and pro/cons.

The general idea behind grit, charcoal, and the like, is that wild cockatiels consume more than just plants and seeds. They'll also be ingesting dirt, bugs, debris, and such, and getting minerals and other nutrients from those items. Even though no psittacine species _need_ grit to digest their food (in contrast to softbills, who do), they are still observed ingesting rocks, which suggests they're obtaining some benefit from the rocks aside from digestion. Macaws are well-known for swarming to exposed clay and eating it, and I've read some about people feeding their birds "whole" plants (roots, stems, leaves all intact) and reporting that the bird usually devoured the dirt-covered roots first, suggesting that the bird recognized something worthwhile in the roots. I've seen this with my own birds as well--I'll grow lettuce seedlings until they have a few sets of true leaves, then pull them, brush off most of the dirt, and feed them to my birds. The roots seem to be their favorite part.

The problem with grit is that it can cause impaction (a blockage in the digestive system that prevents food from moving through the bowels), so it should be monitored. It's suspected that impactions might be caused by birds who are starving or nutrient-deficient overeating grit, and thus that healthy, well-cared-for birds should be safe, but I haven't read extensively on it yet.


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

Ok so it wouldn't cause the to 'overdose' on anything by giving them the grit and charcoal if they're eating pellets as well, right?


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## cknauf (Aug 27, 2012)

dshiro2012 said:


> Ok so it wouldn't cause the to 'overdose' on anything by giving them the grit and charcoal if they're eating pellets as well, right?


I feel like that's pretty much impossible. A psittacine should be eating pretty small amounts of grit and charcoal, and grit and charcoal would provide minerals, not vitamins, which I don't believe are present in great amounts in pellets. I'd have to look at some labeling to double-check though. Minerals are surprisingly hard to OD on, simply because it's difficult to eat high quantities of minerals from natural sources.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> tielfan would know better the whys and pro/cons.


I don't actually know the "whys" of the charcoal, I just know that it's part of their natural diet. A study on the feeding ecology of wild cockatiels found charcoal in 29% of crops. http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=16205 It's best not to let pet birds eat huge amounts of it, especially with babies in the nest. Charcoal is helpful for absorbing toxins but it doesn't differentiate between toxins and nutrients, and will absorb some nutrients too.



> grit and charcoal would provide minerals, not vitamins, which I don't believe are present in great amounts in pellets.


Actually, pellets are designed to provide balanced amounts of every nutrient that birds are known to need, so they have both vitamins and minerals. Soluble grit will provide more minerals of course, and it's probably helpful as a digestive aid, making it easier to grind up the food. The charcoal is probably a digestive aid too since it helps neutralize acids, but it doesn't provide any nutrients that I know of.


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

Thank you so much for all of the helpful information! I just don't want to end up doing something wrong that would hurt any of them! I've been reading a lot of the threads here as well as the stickies, and I really couldn't have found a better site for all of my questions and directions!!! =]


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

> Does the amount of eggs sound right? Or could it be from these people over-breeding them that they lay so few? I know all tiels are different in this department, I just want to learn everything I can so I don't hurt them or the chicks they have! I really appreciate your guy's help! More than you'll ever know!


Four eggs is actually quite normal! Cockatiels lay an average of 4-8 eggs a clutch, but I've had hens lay more than 8 on occasion. It all depends on the hen and you will find that most hens lay the same or close to the same amount every time. So that has nothing to do with overbreeding although it does sound like they were bred quite a lot. The hormone reduction techniques will help you prevent egg laying and just remember, tiels like to mate for fun too, so that doesn't always mean there will be eggs.


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

Ok, good...So how do I keep them from laying more eggs if I end up pulling the chicks? I plan to do it around 6 weeks and co-parent before then...but I don't want them to breed again until closer to the end of the year so that they learn to only breed twice a year so they stay healthy... Like I said, I know they've been bred quite a bit, and already have no idea how much damage has been done (hopefully none).


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Its very very hard to prevent a double clutch (almost impossible, they are THAT determined) but preventing a third clutch is easier. You can try starting hormone reduction as the babies get older, just don't go super into it since reducing their hormones too much will cause them to abandon the babies.


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

Ok...so how many babies (based on the info) should I expect per clutch? 2-3, or 3-4? 
And then usually how long does it take for them to lay the next clutch once the babies are pulled or do they lay them while the babies are still in the nest? 
Also, is there a specific thread on here that has the info on hormone reduction, which I'm guessing I'll have to start when I pull the second clutch, right? (I keep hearing about it, but have no clue what I have to do in order to reduce the hormones)...


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=32330 That's the hormone reduction sticky.

Based on the info you received you should expect 3-4 babies a clutch. And doubling clutching happens while the first clutch is in the nest still which is why its so hard to prevent. You want to lower the hormoned but still have them take care of the babies.


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## dshiro2012 (Feb 4, 2013)

Ok! Thanks so much for the help. =] I really appreciate it!


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

It's easier to disrupt the breeding cycle if you pull the chicks for handfeeding. You take out the nestbox at the same time you pull the babies. The parents won't be expecting that, and if the hen isn't right on the verge of laying more eggs this might be enough to break the cycle. If you use hormone control in addition to stealing the nest it will help reinforce the end of breeding mode.

It's trickier if you want to let the babies stay with the parents until fledging, since the parents typically want to start on a new clutch before the current one has fledged. Then you have a balancing act of trying to disrupt their hormones enough to stop the new clutch, without disrupting them so much that the parents abandon the current clutch. So you try to stave them off until the youngest chick fledges, then remove the nest as soon as that baby leaves it.


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