# Egg Binding



## younggeezy (Oct 6, 2011)

So anybody that followed my last thread read about me going through a very painful ordeal with my bird, she eventually died. I didn't know what was wrong with her (who I thought was a he), and she died 4 days after the first trip to the vet.

The vet did not suspect egg binding, because she said she couldn't feel the egg and the symptoms didn't point in that direction. She was still pooping, although water runny. She was on an all seed diet for her entire life, I bought her at a large pet franchise store, at the time nobody in my area bread cockatiels. She was so afraid of anything other then seeds she wouldn't even get near it. Her only source of calcium was the cuddlebone. 

If the vet properly diagnosed my cockatiel, would she have been able to survive or at least maybe make it through? She was in very bad condition (egg laying wise) her whole life. I really can't stop beating myself up over this because I know I could have done something differently and she would still be with me.

For future reference, how should I go about making sure my bird receives enough calcium (I have a conure coming in I have been waiting for the breeder for a while now, pineapple green cheek. It was going to be Chico's new buddy). Roughly how much money does DNA sexing cost so I can know what to expect, I live in Canada by the way. Also, what are the signs that a bird is going to start laying eggs soon.


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## xoxsarahxox (Dec 13, 2010)

Im very sorry for your loss This thread might be helpful to you, http://talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=19866

Srtiels has a website with a page on some symptoms and causes of egg-binding and what vets do to treat egg binding, http://justcockatiels.weebly.com/egg-related-problems.html.

When they are getting ready to lay, females may have huge messy poops, there may be an egg butt( lump at the vent area), she may be drooping her wings, she might look for nesting areas. There are alot of threads on this also if you do a search through the search box.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

In the US DNA sexing usually costs about $20 although I think it can go as low as $10. There are probably Canadian testing labs that can do it, and if not I would expect that it would be easy to use a US lab.

Please don't beat yourself up - you did all you could to save your bird but it was a most unexpected situation. 

I think the only way to be sure about calcium levels is to use a blood test. But if your bird has good sources of calcium and other nutrients necessary for calcium absorption (like magnesium and vitamin D3) then the calcium levels will probably be OK. Access to direct sunlight can help the D3 levels of birds who refuse to eat dietary sources of it. Birds that won't eat pellets may be willing to eat Nutriberries, which are nutritionally equivalent to pellets but look like seed balls. 

I don't know whether it would have been possible to save Chico if the problem had been identified earlier. If she was calcium deficient, that can result in soft-shelled eggs that can't be laid normally, which can lead to egg yolk peritonitis. http://www.avianweb.com/eggyolkperitonitis.html There are other people here who are better qualified to tell you about other things that can go wrong.


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## younggeezy (Oct 6, 2011)

I read the first part of that, and before I go on I would just like to ask if it sounds like my bird was passing shell-less eggs. The droppings were most commonly greenish, maybe a bit yellow and very runny. She was still able to poop every once in a while although I thought it was all poop. at the end of it all I find a small piece of egg shell today.


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## younggeezy (Oct 6, 2011)

ty sarah for the links that is very helpful


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

If the vet did not suspect egg-bindfing there is a very good chance that it was not egg binding. More hens die from peritonitis than egg binding. It can be a silent killer, the hen active one day and dead the next if a person does not know the signs to look for.

The majority of female reproductive problems are preventable, and boils down to diet and proper lighting. Actually the lighting may be more beneficial than the diet with some reproductive problems.

OK...So, most people think they are OK because they offer cuttlebone, mineral block, feed pellets, etc. But that is only part of picture towards preventing problems. Contrary to popular belief of limiting the amount of times a hen lays a hen can lay an unlimited amount of eggs with absolutely no ill effects. This article has some helpful info: http://www.talkcockatiels.com/showthread.php?t=19866


As to if your vet had properly diagnosed her problem would she be alive today? That is an impossible question to answer without facts. Such is how much experience has the vet had with avian and how long have they been practicing. I have seen the very best vets faiul and lose a bird. What contributes this is the words: Too late. What does that mean? Too late is when we fail to realize and act on a problem. A vets hands are tied with 'too late' patients because the by the time they see them the damage has been done. All they can offer is immediate relief of the symptoms or pain not a cure.


Don't even focus on the birds past. it's life begins in the here and now when a person receives/purchases it. This person is the birds sole benefactor and responsibility. If the past ids known and the diet was poor it is in the birds best interest to improve it, and provide a happy healthy future.

As to sexing, check out http://www.avianbiotech.com they do DNA sexing. They have an 800 # you can call to ask questions and have them send you the things you will need to submit your sample. Average cost is $24.50


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## younggeezy (Oct 6, 2011)

tielfan said:


> In the US DNA sexing usually costs about $20 although I think it can go as low as $10. There are probably Canadian testing labs that can do it, and if not I would expect that it would be easy to use a US lab.
> 
> Please don't beat yourself up - you did all you could to save your bird but it was a most unexpected situation.
> 
> ...


I really don't know why I didn't DNA sex Chico. I should have done it. That link pretty accurately describes my bird before she died


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

> I would just like to ask if it sounds like my bird was passing shell-less eggs. The droppings were most commonly greenish, maybe a bit yellow and very runny.


There are a lot of different things that can cause abnormal droppings, and if you have any pictures you can post there might be someone here who can identify the problem. I'm basically ignorant on this subject but I think it might be possible that this was happening.


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## younggeezy (Oct 6, 2011)

srtiels said:


> If the vet did not suspect egg-bindfing there is a very good chance that it was not egg binding. More hens die from peritonitis than egg binding. It can be a silent killer, the hen active one day and dead the next if a person does not know the signs to look for.
> 
> The majority of female reproductive problems are preventable, and boils down to diet and proper lighting. Actually the lighting may be more beneficial than the diet with some reproductive problems.
> 
> ...


I've written down the link, when my next pal is born I will have it DNA sexed if the breeder does not. Also, unfortunately Chico received only about 2-3 hours of sunlight a day and definitely did not consume enough calcium. Also, I should mention that I am not blaming the vet, she did all she could. I just wanted to know the chances of a bird coming out of a slum like mine was in. What does broken eggshells on the floor of her cage mean?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

2-3 hours of sunlight per day would have been more than enough if it was direct sunlight, meaning that there was no glass or screen between the sun and the bird. Window glass and screens filter out most of the UV that helps a bird produce its own vitamin D3. Many people use full spectrum lighting as a substitute for direct sunlight, although recent studies suggest that FS lights may not be very effective for vitamin D purposes. Dietary sources are effective, and pellets are the main source of dietary D3.

Can you post pictures of the broken egg shells? That might help identify the problem. Is it possible that the eggshell did not come from Chico, for example someone was cooking with eggs and the shell somehow ended up in a weird place?


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## younggeezy (Oct 6, 2011)

tielfan said:


> There are a lot of different things that can cause abnormal droppings, and if you have any pictures you can post there might be someone here who can identify the problem. I'm basically ignorant on this subject but I think it might be possible that this was happening.












That was before. This was what I found happened right when she died.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

My hen Trouble died from me not knowing enough....She contributed to alot of the pix's of I use in some of my posts. Her soul is perched on my shoulder to pass along all she taught me to save other birds. Below is a collage that I am working on that has alot of the malformed eggs she passed, in addition to other problems she had.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Keep in mind that I don't know actually what I'm talking about, but that first poop photo looks like it could be egg yolk mixed with other stuff.


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## younggeezy (Oct 6, 2011)

That is what it looks like to me as well. If that were so, what could that mean?


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

If it really is egg yolk, she was trying to produce eggs but they weren't forming properly. It could have been a soft-shell egg or a no-shell egg. Did you ever find anything strange that might have been a very soft eggshell?


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## bjknight93 (Nov 13, 2011)

Canada has a sexing company:

www.healthgene.com

If you choose Avian Biotech you have to submit additional papers because it will crossing borders. I think both companies charge about $20. Biotech charges $19.50 i know for sure. It will probably just be easier to use health gene.


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## younggeezy (Oct 6, 2011)

No I have never come across anything like that. Just what you see in picture #2. It is most definitely egg shells from Chico.


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## younggeezy (Oct 6, 2011)

bjknight93 said:


> Canada has a sexing company:
> 
> www.healthgene.com
> 
> If you choose Avian Biotech you have to submit additional papers because it will crossing borders. I think both companies charge about $20. Biotech charges $19.50 i know for sure. It will probably just be easier to use health gene.


Perfect, thank you


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

I did a little photo-editing on your second pix (exposure, cropped and enlarged) to see what is going on.

I see a couple things going on. First off it was a soft shelled egg that would have had a powdery surface and got stuck in the uterus for awhile before being passed. While it was stuck inside her it put extreme pressure on the tubules of the kidneys thus the slight bleeding in the urine, and could have caused her some kidney damage in addition to the stress of the egg-binding. She is very very fortunate that she did not prolapse her uterus or oviduct outside of the vent. Such eggs contribute to prolapses.


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## younggeezy (Oct 6, 2011)

So that means that she wasn't really going to make it from when that first happened? That sounds pretty horrible I feel very bad that she had to suffer like that.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

Yes...she *might have* made it with very fast aggressive vet supportive care such as Sub-Q fluids (especially if kidney damage and risk of failure), Vit K injections for the bleeding, and an injectable calcium to name a few of the most important things. The problem is that many vets may not have enough experience on what to do in emergencies such as this.


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## younggeezy (Oct 6, 2011)

There is really only a couple actual avian vets in my city. They both work at the university and they both charge an arm and a leg for any type of work done (just check-ups are 110 dollars). However there are many vets that aren't formally recognized and educated as an avian vet, but are still credible and know what they are doing (and cost less then half as much). That is really the only problem with where I live, not enough people to have competition and keep the prices down. It can be expensive to own a bird in central Canada.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

A vets hands are tied when a hen is in this condition if they don't recognize the symptoms of what is going on. Her droppings were the best clue of the problem. With the look of the urine she may have actually died from kidney failure rather than the egg problems.


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## younggeezy (Oct 6, 2011)

I wouldn't be surprised. I'm better off not knowing for sure what happened anyway. I'm going home to my parent's place tonight to bury her in their backyard.


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## srtiels (May 1, 2009)

* I'm going home to my parent's place tonight to bury her in their backyard.*
---------------------------------

(((HUGS)))...


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