# Whats going on here?



## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Hi guys I'm back. This time not so good news. My pair Will & Grace laid some eggs. 2 were fertile the rest were not. Then just within days of when it was supposed to hatch it was DIS. I opened it up and it was a fully formed chick with all the down feathers and everything ready to hatch but it was dead. I knew because the outside of the shell was grey and I candled it and there was no heart beat and no red veins. So I left them with their last egg which was the only fertile one left and I just checked on it tonight and candled it and I found what I think is another DIS. The outside is white like it should be BUT the inside I don't see the red veins anymore, just a red ring around the inside of the egg with one small little black dot which I believe is the embryo with no heart beat. I tried to get a good picture but it wouldn't work well but I got what I could. I put the egg back until I am 100% sure its DIS. They are still sitting tight on it. If this is DIS what causes this? Everyones elses eggs are ok so far, knock on wood. They laid 5 eggs the 1st one and the 5th one was good.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

Do you know when the egg was laid? I'm not an expert on these things, but I do think it's likely that the embryo died at an early stage of development. The air cell also seems to be too big for this stage of development. The air cell gradually gets bigger over time but the embryo is supposed to be getting bigger at the same time, and the air cell size and embryo size look mismatched in this egg. I'm not seeing the red ring in the pictures, but rings like this are called a blood ring, and they're a sign that the embryo died at an early stage. There's a picture of an egg with a blood ring near the bottom of http://www.brinsea.com/pdffiles/what is egg candling.pdf

Has this pair had good breeding success in the past? If they have, then genetic defects probably aren't the reason for the DIS embryos. A couple of other possibilities are (1) that the pair hasn't been sitting tight enough and the eggs got chilled, or (b) that one of the parents might have some kind of low-level infection that doesn't bother the parent, but it's getting into the eggs and harming the babies. Egg shells are porous and bacteria can pass through the shell, so it's possible that the dad could pass along something unpleasant. But the risk is obviously a lot higher with the hen, because the egg "innards" are completely exposed inside her body before the shell is laid down. If there is any kind of mold or other contaminants inside the nest, that could harm the egg too.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

This pair has had many good clutches together without any problem. This last egg was laid on 02/15/13. 
If you look at the picture that I'm attaching now, I put an arow pointing to the blood ring. 
The pair are 6 and 7 years old and have been together and have had 2 clutches of 3 to 6 chicks a year since they were around 1 and 2 years old. Their very last clutch was in Oct. 2011 and they were just now set back up and had these eggs.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

So the egg is 8 days old now. I'm afraid that it doesn't look viable, but go ahead and leave it in the nest for now in case I'm wrong. 

Maybe there was a night fright? If the parent on duty leaves the nest in a panic during the night, they often can't or won't go back until morning, which can be disastrous for the eggs.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

I tossed the egg out, when I checked on it this morning the red blood ring had turned a brownish color and the embryo had gotten darker shade of black it was DIS.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

Since they just recently came back into your care, they may not be comfortable enough yet to sit on their eggs properly. No fault of yours or their's they just may need some more time to settle in. Even though they've been with you before, this is still new and stressful to them.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

I understand that but the thing is unless they come out to eat and drink they both sit on the eggs very well.


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## roxy culver (May 27, 2010)

What is the humidity like? That could also be a factor. Did either one come out to bathe at all? If not, that could also be an issue. Humidity monitors are fairly cheap on ebay to keep an eye on that.


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## lilbear (Aug 2, 2012)

I have had this problem also. Have you been having weird weather lately? We have had warm days then cold rainy days and back and forth and my whole clutch two days before hatch dead.


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## tielfan (Aug 31, 2008)

In a recent discussion on another board, Susanne (srtiels) said "with tiel eggs weather (atmospheric pressure) does have great impact on hatching eggs 3 days prior to hatch. If there are extreme fluctuations in temps then there is an erratic pip". 

The egg that's being discussed in this thread wasn't close to hatching and I don't know if weather fluctuations have an effect at an earlier stage. I'll ask Susanne.


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## sweetnsour924 (Oct 20, 2010)

Hi guys, sorry I wasn't back to answer questions. I've been really sick lately. Any how the weather is up and down rate now and so is the humidity in here. One minute its cold and we are getting tons of snow then its warm and everything is melting and then its cold again with tons of snow.


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